theintercept--2020-03-12--Mystery Group Attacking Colorado Public Option Funded by Hospital Lobbyists and Medical Debt Collect

Mystery Group Attacking Colorado Public Option Funded by Hospital Lobbyists and Medical Debt Collection Firm

The Colorado group , launched last year to defeat the public option proposed by Colorado Gov .
Jared Polis , has aired thousands of advertisements across broadcast television and social media , disclosures show .
Its parent group , the Partnership for America ’ s Health Care Future Action — a 501 ( c ) ( 4 ) that does not disclose donor information — spent $ 1,631,297 in January alone on ads and advocacy to undermine the Colorado public option bill .
“ Patients and doctors should make health care decisions , not politicians , ” declares a woman @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the group ’ s television ads .
Colorado ’ s Health Care Future has flooded the state in recent months with mailers and advertisements that feature people in medical smocks with stethoscopes speaking sternly into the camera about the dangers of “ government-controlled health care.
” But Colorado Health is not a society for medical professionals , as the images in the ads suggest .
The public option proposal , known officially as the “ Colorado Affordable Healthcare Option , ” is the latest in a string of policies backed by Polis to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ year , the governor unveiled an effort to import low-cost pharmaceuticals from Canada .
Polis also established new protections to end the practice of “ surprise billing , ” capping the amount out-of-network hospitals and providers can charge insured patients .
Colorado ’ s Health Care Future is overseen by Chip Kahn , a longtime Republican strategist and chief lobbyist for the Federation of American Hospitals , a trade group in Washington , D.C. , that lobbies on behalf of 17 of the largest investor-owned hospitals in Colorado .
The effort is also @ @ @ @ @ @ @ companies , and health product corporations .
Far from representing a broad array of Coloradans , many of the people featured in Colorado ’ s Health Care Future ’ s online ads are stock images .
Much of the rhetoric in the ads reflects talking points developed by health care lobbyists over the last two years to defeat similar proposals across the country .
HCA Healthcare , one of the sponsors of Colorado ’ s Health Care Future , is an investor-owned health conglomerate that operates a chain of hospitals and the debt @ @ @ @ @ @ @ patients with collection lawsuits .
According to court documents compiled by the advocacy group Medicare for All NOW , Medicredit has filed medical debt collection lawsuits against 7,800 patients in Colorado over the last decade .
HCA Healthcare , the Federation of American Hospitals , and the lobbyists involved in managing Colorado ’ s Health Care Future did not respond to a request for comment .
The state public option plan , which would be the second in the nation if passed , represents an aggressive effort by the governor to rein in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ initially envisions a new insurance option for patients not currently enrolled in an employer-based plan to enroll in a plan tightly regulated by the state and managed by a private insurer .
Lawmakers have said that the plan could later be offered to small businesses .
Premiums would be set by the government at as much as 20 percent less than current premiums on the exchanges , saving as much as $ 120 per month for many residents .
Hospitals are required to accept patients enrolled in the state option or face escalating @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to operate .
The bill provides several areas for cost-savings to provide for the plan .
Insurers must spend a higher share of revenue they collect from premiums on care rather than administrative costs or profits .
Drug manufacturers will be required to pass rebates directly to people covered by the public option .
And most hospitals and providers will receive a fixed rate of 155 percent of Medicare reimbursement formulas , though some smaller and rural hospitals may receive higher rates .
“ We have built a uniquely Colorado solution that provides @ @ @ @ @ @ @ competition and ensures our Colorado hospitals will continue to have the resources they need to serve our communities , ” said Democratic state Sen. Kerry Donovan at the press conference last week announcing the introduction of the bill .
Colorado hospital charges are among the most expensive in the country .
A study from the think tank RAND Corporation found that hospitals in the area charged 350 percent on average higher than Medicare rates for outpatient care .
The costs , the study found , were in part because of low rates of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ hospital sector .
The Colorado media has featured horror stories of sticker shock from hefty medical bills , including a small business owner charged $ 1,227 for a flu diagnostic visit , a young man charged $ 12,460 for a 45-minute visit to an emergency room over intoxication-related dehydration , and a woman charged $ 2,783 after visiting a hospital for ankle pain .
Many of the exorbitant charges have been made by investor-owned hospitals , which operate many of Colorado ’ s leading health care facilities .
Kindred Healthcare , Universal Health @ @ @ @ @ @ @ bulk of hospital beds in Colorado .
The lucrative business model has fueled dazzling profits and high executive pay .
R. Milton Johnson , the former HCA Healthcare chief executive officer , was paid $ 109 million in 2018 before retiring , making him the highest paid health care CEO in the nation that year .
Kindred and HCA Healthcare have collectively spent over $ 3 billion on stock repurchase agreements since 2019 , shifting revenue into investors ’ hands .
In November , William Rutherford , the executive vice president of HCA @ @ @ @ @ @ @ monitoring the possibility of a public option in Colorado , particularly the proposal that would set reimbursement rates for hospital procedures .
“ Anytime you get into kind of rate setting on there , then we have some concerns about that , ” Rutherford told an assembled group of investors at the Wolfe Research Inaugural Healthcare Conference in New York .
Chip Kahn , the chair of Partnership for America ’ s Health Care Future Action , has long been involved in health care advocacy on behalf of industry .
After serving as @ @ @ @ @ @ @ worked as a health insurance lobbyist and was instrumental in the “ Harry & Louise ” ad campaign that helped sink President Bill Clinton ’ s health care plan in 1994 .
Kahn , who lobbies on behalf of HCA Healthcare and Kindred , is also one of the best compensated health care lobbyists in the country .
He was paid $ 2.8 million a year , according to the latest disclosure available .
Speaking last year at an industry conference , Kahn claimed that the Partnership for America ’ s Health Care @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to provide “ counter messaging ” to health care reform advocates touting an expanded role for government-run health insurance .
“ We have to tell the people we serve and give them messages about how we feel about this , ” said Kahn , “ knowing that we want to serve them , and we know health care needs to be financed , but this is the wrong way to go .
”

Colorado’s Health Care Future has flooded the state in recent months with mailers and advertisements that feature people in medical smocks with stethoscopes speaking sternly into the camera about the dangers of “government-controlled health care.”
“Patients and doctors should make health care decisions, not politicians,” declares a woman wearing a lab coat in one of the group’s television ads.
The Colorado group, launched last year to defeat the public option proposed by Colorado Gov. Jared Polis, has aired thousands of advertisements across broadcast television and social media, disclosures show. Its parent group, the Partnership for America’s Health Care Future Action — a 501(c)(4) that does not disclose donor information — spent $1,631,297 in January alone on ads and advocacy to undermine the Colorado public option bill.
The public option proposal, known officially as the “Colorado Affordable Healthcare Option,” is the latest in a string of policies backed by Polis to make health costs more affordable. Last year, the governor unveiled an effort to import low-cost pharmaceuticals from Canada. Polis also established new protections to end the practice of “surprise billing,” capping the amount out-of-network hospitals and providers can charge insured patients.
But Colorado Health is not a society for medical professionals, as the images in the ads suggest.
Colorado’s Health Care Future is overseen by Chip Kahn, a longtime Republican strategist and chief lobbyist for the Federation of American Hospitals, a trade group in Washington, D.C., that lobbies on behalf of 17 of the largest investor-owned hospitals in Colorado. The effort is also backed financially by private insurers, drug companies, and health product corporations.
Far from representing a broad array of Coloradans, many of the people featured in Colorado’s Health Care Future’s online ads are stock images. Much of the rhetoric in the ads reflects talking points developed by health care lobbyists over the last two years to defeat similar proposals across the country.
HCA Healthcare, one of the sponsors of Colorado’s Health Care Future, is an investor-owned health conglomerate that operates a chain of hospitals and the debt collection firm Medicredit, which swamped Colorado patients with collection lawsuits.
According to court documents compiled by the advocacy group Medicare for All NOW, Medicredit has filed medical debt collection lawsuits against 7,800 patients in Colorado over the last decade.
HCA Healthcare, the Federation of American Hospitals, and the lobbyists involved in managing Colorado’s Health Care Future did not respond to a request for comment.
The state public option plan, which would be the second in the nation if passed, represents an aggressive effort by the governor to rein in costs and expand coverage.
The plan initially envisions a new insurance option for patients not currently enrolled in an employer-based plan to enroll in a plan tightly regulated by the state and managed by a private insurer. Lawmakers have said that the plan could later be offered to small businesses.
Premiums would be set by the government at as much as 20 percent less than current premiums on the exchanges, saving as much as $120 per month for many residents. Hospitals are required to accept patients enrolled in the state option or face escalating fines and a loss of state license to operate.
The bill provides several areas for cost-savings to provide for the plan. Insurers must spend a higher share of revenue they collect from premiums on care rather than administrative costs or profits. Drug manufacturers will be required to pass rebates directly to people covered by the public option. And most hospitals and providers will receive a fixed rate of 155 percent of Medicare reimbursement formulas, though some smaller and rural hospitals may receive higher rates.
“We have built a uniquely Colorado solution that provides real support to struggling people, increases competition and ensures our Colorado hospitals will continue to have the resources they need to serve our communities,” said Democratic state Sen. Kerry Donovan at the press conference last week announcing the introduction of the bill.
Colorado hospital charges are among the most expensive in the country. A study from the think tank RAND Corporation found that hospitals in the area charged 350 percent on average higher than Medicare rates for outpatient care. The costs, the study found, were in part because of low rates of competition from years of consolidation within the hospital sector.
The Colorado media has featured horror stories of sticker shock from hefty medical bills, including a small business owner charged $1,227 for a flu diagnostic visit, a young man charged $12,460 for a 45-minute visit to an emergency room over intoxication-related dehydration, and a woman charged $2,783 after visiting a hospital for ankle pain.
Many of the exorbitant charges have been made by investor-owned hospitals, which operate many of Colorado’s leading health care facilities. Kindred Healthcare, Universal Health Services, and HCA Healthcare control the bulk of hospital beds in Colorado.
The lucrative business model has fueled dazzling profits and high executive pay. R. Milton Johnson, the former HCA Healthcare chief executive officer, was paid $109 million in 2018 before retiring, making him the highest paid health care CEO in the nation that year.
Kindred and HCA Healthcare have collectively spent over $3 billion on stock repurchase agreements since 2019, shifting revenue into investors’ hands.
In November, William Rutherford, the executive vice president of HCA Healthcare, said the company was closely monitoring the possibility of a public option in Colorado, particularly the proposal that would set reimbursement rates for hospital procedures.
“Anytime you get into kind of rate setting on there, then we have some concerns about that,” Rutherford told an assembled group of investors at the Wolfe Research Inaugural Healthcare Conference in New York.
Chip Kahn, the chair of Partnership for America’s Health Care Future Action, has long been involved in health care advocacy on behalf of industry. After serving as an aide to Newt Gingrich, Kahn worked as a health insurance lobbyist and was instrumental in the “Harry & Louise” ad campaign that helped sink President Bill Clinton’s health care plan in 1994.
Kahn, who lobbies on behalf of HCA Healthcare and Kindred, is also one of the best compensated health care lobbyists in the country. He was paid $2.8 million a year, according to the latest disclosure available.
Speaking last year at an industry conference, Kahn claimed that the Partnership for America’s Health Care Future Action group had been his idea to provide “counter messaging” to health care reform advocates touting an expanded role for government-run health insurance.
“We have to tell the people we serve and give them messages about how we feel about this,” said Kahn, “knowing that we want to serve them, and we know health care needs to be financed, but this is the wrong way to go.”


theintercept--2020-03-12--Capitalism Versus The Coronavirus

Capitalism Versus The Coronavirus

handful of cases a few weeks ago , the Covid-19 outbreak in the US has ballooned to over a thousand cases nationwide .
The Trump administration ’ s public response has ranged from incoherent to incomprehensible : denialism about the scale of the problem , failure to test in sufficient numbers , a reluctance to take coordinated , large-scale government action .
It ’ s also raised questions about the US healthcare system ’ s capacity to respond effectively to a health crisis on this scale .
Columbia professor and economist Jeffrey Sachs joins Mehdi Hasan to discuss American capitalism @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the coronavirus .
Jeffrey Sachs : With this pandemic , this government has to be judged on its incompetence , its venality , its ignorance and it will add to our costs and our dangers absolutely in an enormously depressing and significant way .
Mehdi Hasan : Welcome to Deconstructed , I ’ m Mehdi Hasan .
We ’ re in the midst of a corona crisis , and we have a president who can ’ t or won ’ t lead and an economic system that ’ s just not fit for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ started our secretary of health and human services was talking about how the private markets would organize the response .
Unbelievable .
MH : That ’ s my guest , the world-famous economist and author Professor Jeffrey Sachs .
So , on today ’ s Deconstructed , it ’ s capitalism versus the coronavirus .
Newscaster : Two hundred and fifty-four people die from coronavirus in China on the deadliest day of the outbreak so far .
Newscaster : If millions of people contract the coronavirus , the death toll could still run @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : The coronavirus outbreak is worse than any terror attack .
Newscaster : The terror of the virus is increasing every moment .
Newscaster : Some people are predicting the apocalypse .
MH : It is difficult to describe , summarize , or express with sufficient outrage the many myriad ways in which the Trump administration has screwed up beyond belief in response to the coronavirus pandemic – as the World Health Organization officially classified it on Wednesday .
Remember : lots of countries are dealing with the political , economic , public @ @ @ @ @ @ @ none have handled it as badly as the United States , as the Trump administration .
The denialism about the scale of the problem , the failure to test in anywhere near sufficient numbers , even now ; the earlier refusal by this president to allow Americans back onto American soil simply because he didn ’ t want the numbers to go up and make him look bad : Donald J. Trump : I like the numbers being where they are .
I don ’ t need to have the numbers double because @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to take them off , take them off .
But if that happens all of a sudden your 240 is obviously gon na be a much higher and probably the 11 will be a higher number .
MH : According to stats collected by Business Insider , as of March 8th , the US had a testing rate of 5 tests per million people .
That compares to 347 tests per million in the UK .
And three and a half thousand tests per million people in South Korea .
More than three @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Koreans are even testing people at drive-thrus , drive-thrus !
How on earth did the United States of America allow any other country beat them at drive-thrus ?
I mean , seriously .
But look , it turns out , putting a former reality TV star , a thin-skinned narcissist and egomaniac , in charge of the United States government , and then surrounding him with anti-government extremists , isn ’ t the best move when the country they ’ re supposed to be governing gets hit by a public health crisis like @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in our lifetimes .
People are dying .
The virus is spreading .
Public health professionals are sounding the alarm bell , because it ’ s going to get worse , much worse , and this is the response from the president of the United States : DJT : Now , the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus , you know that right ?
Coronavirus .
One of my people came up to me and said Mr. President , they tried to beat you on Russia , Russia , Russia .
That didn ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ tried the impeachment hoax .
It ’ s all turning , they lost .
It ’ s all turning , think of it and this is their new hoax .
MH : But , look , Trump knows what he is doing .
Remember , remember what he said in his visit to the CDC : DJT : You know my uncle , he was a great person .
He was at MIT .
He taught at MIT for I think a record number of years .
He was a great super-genius , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ stuff .
I really get it .
People are surprised that I understand it .
Everyone of these doctors said how do you know so much about this ?
Maybe I have a natural ability .
Maybe I should ’ ve done that instead of running for president .
MH : This is the guy who ’ s in charge , who our lives depend upon !
Well , actually he ’ s put Mike Pence in charge , which isn ’ t much better , given Pence is a spineless sycophant whose @ @ @ @ @ @ @ protecting public health , and Pence is also an anti-science extremist who thinks smoking doesn ’ t cause cancer and carbon emissions don ’ t cause climate change .
By the way , what ’ s been so depressing is seeing government officials , including respected scientists like the head of the CDC , Dr. Robert Redfield , slathering praise on Trump and trying to keep him happy , rather than speak truth to power and convey the urgency of this problem and the fact that the United States is way way behind @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s Redfield welcoming Trump to the CDC : Robert Redfield : Well , I think first I want to thank you for your decisive leadership in helping us you know , put public health first .
I also want to thank you for coming here today and sort of encouraging and bringing energy to the men and women that you see that work every day to try to keep America safe .
So I think that ’ s the most important thing I want to say .
MH : Ugh .
I think @ @ @ @ @ @ @ One good thing though that Redfield did say , this week : RR : The truth is , we ’ ve not invested , we ’ ve under-invested in the public health lab — Congressperson : There aren ’ t enough people to run the tests ?
RR : There ’ s not enough equipment .
There ’ s not enough people .
There ’ s not enough internal capacity .
There ’ s no surge capacity .
MH : Yes , U.S. governments , whether Democratic or Republican , but especially Republican @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in public infrastructure , in R & D and scientific discovery .
And that ’ s what I want to talk about on the show today .
Because the coronavirus is really highlighting , showing up , the deficiencies in capitalism , it really is .
Especially the U.S. economy , the U.S. hardcore capitalist model , which is just not geared for a crisis like this : I mean , not just in terms of scientific research , but also : guess what ?
It turns out that not having universal healthcare @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for workers , and allowing Big Pharma to lead the way on vaccines and the pricing of vaccines , isn ’ t the best move when you ’ re confronted with a pandemic like the coronavirus which requires people to be able to get tested quickly , which requires people to self-quarantine and stay home from work when they suspect they might have it , which requires everyone to get vaccinated eventually , in order to stop the spread .
There ’ s a great piece in The Atlantic this week by staff @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Are No Libertarians in an Epidemic , ” which is well worth your time .
Peter writes , and I quote : “ Donald Trump ’ s aim is to brand his opponent an avatar of socialism , whether it ’ s Joe Biden or Bernie Sanders .
But the COVID-19 outbreak demonstrates the emptiness of these sorts of ideological labels .
Just as there are no atheists in foxholes , in a national emergency , there ’ s no truly laissez-faire government.
” Oh .
Yes .
Totally agree .
Another good @ @ @ @ @ @ @ CNN website that ’ s worth reading , specifically on the need for a “ public health approach ” not a private sector-led approach , to tackling the virus and producing a vaccine , is by Jeffrey Sachs , professor and director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University , who is also a former adviser to Bernie Sanders and a former adviser on poverty and development to the United Nations Secretary General .
Its headline , his piece ’ s headline is “ The Trump administration ’ s ludicrous approach @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ m pleased to say that Professor Jeffrey Sachs joins me now .
Jeffrey Sachs , thanks for joining me on Deconstructed .
JS : Good to be with you .
MH : Jeff , there ’ s been a lot of talk about the public health implications of this pandemic , as the WHO now calls the coronavirus .
There ’ s also been a lot of talk about the implications for the stock market , for the economy .
I want to take a step back with you and ask a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s something about capitalism , and specifically , the American neoliberal model of capitalism which makes this country and this economy , particularly ill-suited , and ill-equipped to deal with a health crisis like this .
JS : We don ’ t have a public health system .
We have a for-profit , private system .
We have tens of millions of people that have no health coverage .
We have people that have no primary care physicians .
We have no systematic testing .
We are scrambling , and it has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with the pandemic spreading in the United States .
And effectively so far with essentially zero response by the government .
Yeah , we ’ re just way , way behind .
And it reflects the institutions and the mindset because even when this pandemic started , our Secretary of Health and Human Services was talking about how the private markets would organize the response .
Unbelievable .
MH : Yes , and I do want to come back to Alex Azar in a moment , just you mentioned the kind of lack @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , where the mind goes first .
How much is a glaring lack of universal health care in the US going to further exacerbate this crisis especially compared to other countries which are also dealing with the coronavirus ?
I ’ m from the UK which has a national health service , but they don ’ t have this problem that the US especially has .
JS : I was just speaking with somebody who was saying that they could not get information from their state public health officials .
They were told @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they don ’ t have , there is no testing being done .
This is of course an anecdote , but it ’ s what we ’ re hearing from all over the United States right now .
I ’ m hearing from doctors in hospitals without the facilities , without the testing kits , without the advice from public health officials .
It ’ s rather shocking .
MH : Just this week , the Vice President refused to take questions at the White House about whether the uninsured would have access @ @ @ @ @ @ @ vaccine is produced , which is pretty shocking as you say and shoddy .
What ’ s also amazing and this is not really the show or the discussion to get deep into party politics , but it is worth noting that at a time when everyone realizes the dire implications of not having access to healthcare or not being able to pay for health care , the presidential candidate who you ’ ve advised and who ’ s , who ’ s advocating universal single payer health care is losing not winning @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the political culture in this country .
JS : It is odd because an overwhelming proportion of Americans want universal health coverage , survey after survey shows this .
We have a very peculiar politics in this country .
MH : So Jeff , what do you do about a political , economic , social culture that as you ’ ve seen over the decades , kind of arguing about this stuff , studying this stuff , that seems in part so viscerally anti-government , so anti-the public sector , anti-the public realm @ @ @ @ @ @ @ markets , all about sturdy individualism , and then a crisis like this hits .
JS : Of course , that ’ s not really the public ’ s attitude .
This is the lobbying speaking .
This is the plutocracy .
The public wants something different , but they can ’ t find it .
And then when you have a candidate like Bernie Sanders who presents rather straightforwardly the right approach , the entire mainstream media is aghast , is shocked and does nothing but denigrate those policy recommendations .
So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ United States , our system has been failing for , I would say 40 years because it really started with Ronald Reagan as president .
It ’ s not just shocking to watch politically but it is at the point of grave danger for the American people .
MH : I think the word you use it stood out there was confused because there is a lot of confusion among you know , people in the media and in politics , who on the one hand , as you say , they will @ @ @ @ @ @ @ even for talking about universal health care or single payer .
How will you pay for it ?
Why do we need it ?
And then those are the same people who are also demanding the Trump administration do something now that you know , the government should step in and do something and they don ’ t see the kind of the contradiction there .
JS : It was like the famous sign a few years ago , “ Government , keep your hands off of my Medicare.
” MH : Yes @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I want to come back to Tea Party in a moment .
Peter Nicholas , who ’ s a staff writer at The Atlantic wrote a rather good piece this week , under the rather apt headline , “ There are no libertarians in an epidemic , ” talking about the ideological corner that Republicans have backed themselves into by always denouncing government interventions of any kind as socialism , as communism , as Marxism .
Now you have a Trump administration which has to basically lead some form of large scale government @ @ @ @ @ @ @ How are they going to thread that needle ?
Do you think they ’ re even going to bother ?
JS : I think it ’ s also like Bernie Sanders always says , there is definitely socialism for the rich .
I recall just in a different episode , in September 2008 when the financial crisis brought to us by our friendly Wall Street banks , led to a massive financial debacle , there was the Wall Street Journal saying , “ Oh , we have to remember market failures .
This @ @ @ @ @ @ @ So there ’ s — MH : And now we ’ re talking about a bailout for the hotel industry for the aviation industry .
Trump is very happy to bail out his friends in those big companies .
JS : He actually talked about if you really want to get your head spinning , talked about bailing out the fracking industry , the fracking , fracking industry .
MH : Top of the list of what you think of when you think of a public health crisis .
MH : You made @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , the mindset .
You can ’ t make this stuff up .
The Republicans are asked , what are you going to do about this crisis ?
And their response is tax cuts which is their response to everything .
They ’ ve been pitching this idea , this week of 700 billion dollars of payroll tax cuts .
As an economist by training , what ’ s your response to that ?
JS : Well , it ’ s so absurd that maybe it will open eyes that this whole idea @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I have to say , of stimulus tax cuts , turning dials when we have deep structural crises , like a pandemic , like climate change , meaning that it ’ s not a matter of gimmicks .
It ’ s not a matter of aggregate demand to use the jargon of macro-economists .
It ’ s focusing on stopping a pathogen from spreading .
It ’ s saving lives .
It is taking public health measures .
And similarly , on climate change or other grave crises that we face .
It @ @ @ @ @ @ @ stimulus bill or boosting the economy .
It ’ s a matter of focusing on solutions , making the spending and investments directed toward the specific problems or the regulations directed toward the specific problems .
We haven ’ t been doing that for a long , long time .
MH : And what ’ s interesting , of course , is when they do pitch these kind of tax cuts , no one asks how are you going to pay for that ?
We spent the last year asking various Democratic presidential @ @ @ @ @ @ @ pay for their various policies .
But you know , crisis hits , Republicans call for unfunded tax cuts .
You talk about solutions , a rather extreme solution , I think it ’ s fair to say , pitched by Rick Santelli , the stock trader , rather odious CNBC commentator , the guy who launched the Tea Party back in 2009 by blaming the quote losers who couldn ’ t pay their mortgage bills .
He said last week that instead of quarantines… Rick Santelli : Maybe we ’ d be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to everybody and then in a month , it would be over because the mortality rate of this probably isn ’ t going to be any different if we did it that way than the long term picture .
But the difference is we ’ re really wreaking havoc on global and domestic economies .
JS : There are some things that don ’ t even deserve a response , frankly .
JS : Well , the idiocy of so much of our daily life right now , of course , with a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the nature of our discussion is tragically sad and we go along with it .
We don ’ t , many of us are aghast every day , but it ’ s tolerated as long as the stock market is booming .
MH : That is the prism that we seem to see so much of the world through in this country .
JS : Now the stock market is in a tailspin because they ’ re recognizing stimulus or not , interest rate cuts or not , tax cuts or not .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ serious crisis right now .
There is no easy answer to this pandemic wave .
JS : This is the real issue .
MH : There was a headline in the New Republic magazine the other day referring to Santelli ’ s ridiculous comments under the headline , “ The Invisible Hand wants you dead , ” which might sound like left wing hyperbole , but right now it feels kind of true .
JS : I think , of course , again , it ’ s unpleasant to listen to people who @ @ @ @ @ @ @ issues .
So it ’ s just unpleasant to begin with .
But what is also true is given the state of affairs right now , we have a really deep , deep crisis .
It ’ s a crisis of lives .
It ’ s a crisis of health , and no matter what is done , it is also a crisis of the economy that ’ s very deep and that none of the traditional measures such as they are which don ’ t work very well in in any circumstance @ @ @ @ @ @ @ You say a crisis of life .
Just on that note , I interviewed a top epidemiologist recently , who ’ s at Harvard , who said that the likes of Donald Trump and Boris Johnson , Prime Minister in the UK , who clearly haven ’ t taken this pandemic seriously , who haven ’ t committed the resources or attention necessary , he said they could have blood on their hands .
Would you go as far as that ?
JS : I believe that even Trump ’ s policies on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ because it is leading to loss of lives and grave , grave damage to vast numbers of people .
I believe that Trump ’ s sanctions on countries like Venezuela and Iran which cripple their health system and then lead to mass suffering is a crime against humanity .
And , of course with this pandemic , this government has to be judged on its incompetence , its venality , its ignorance , and it will add to our costs and our dangers absolutely in an enormously depressing and significant way .
MH @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with the economy , I also hear people , everyone from the Trump administration to the CDC , to Barack Obama on Twitter saying , “ If you feel sick , if you think you ’ re infected , stay home , don ’ t go to work ” which is easy to say if you can afford it .
But in a country like the U.S. one of the only industrialized countries on earth , which doesn ’ t guarantee paid sick leave , a lot of people can ’ t afford @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ re going to go to work out of necessity , and then spread the virus .
JS : But even staying home requires access to medicines , to social support systems , to food deliveries , to testing — MH : None of which has been thought through .
JS : None of that is in place because we don ’ t have such support systems in this country .
MH : Every man for himself , fend for yourselves .
JS : Well , this is the tragedy .
MH : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ The Trump administration ’ s ludicrous approach to coronavirus vaccine , ” you discuss and you mentioned them at the top Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar and his statement recently , not just about kind of let the markets do their thing .
He said : Alex Azar : Frankly , this has such global attention right now and the private market players , major pharmaceutical players , as you ’ ve heard , are engaged in this .
The market here we believe will actually sort that out in terms @ @ @ @ @ @ @ etc .
We ’ ll work on that to make sure that we ’ re able to accelerate vaccines as well as therapeutic research and development .
MH : Can you translate what he ’ s saying ?
What on earth is he trying to say there ?
JS : Well , it ’ s like a Saturday Night Live opening .
You would think that it ’ s a spoof .
I had to read that several times to believe it .
What he is saying is that as usual , our @ @ @ @ @ @ @ National Institutes of Health , will promote scientific discovery , will spend money on the vaccine as it should .
But then whatever is learned will be handed over to private companies .
And they will develop a vaccine and then charge what they want because that ’ s the American system .
So he was asked in Congress , specifically , “ Mr .
Secretary , could you guarantee that a vaccine would be affordable ?
” And he said , “ No , I can ’ t , because the market @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ” JS : In a pandemic , and in a case explicitly where the research and development is being funded by the US government .
It shows — MH : Socialism for the rich as you quoted Bernie saying , and Azar of course , surprise , surprise , breaking news is a former drug industry lobbyist .
JS : This is exactly his job and is exactly his job qualification .
That ’ s why he has this job .
All across our government , Trump has put literally lobbyists , you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
They ’ re in the position itself .
MH : Drain the swamp .
In your piece , you also mentioned how FDR who suffered from polio set up a publicly funded initiative to try and get a cure for polio which worked .
What lessons Do you think we could draw from that today ?
I mean , putting aside the fact that the Trump administration has no interest in learning from FDR , but what lessons can the rest of us learn when it comes to getting ready for a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Roosevelt was the greatest president in American history and also a remarkable human being and a great inspiration because of course , he had a crippling bout with polio .
And in 1938 , as the polio epidemic was spreading across the United States , he launched at that time , a non-governmental effort called the March of Dimes which took donations from the public and used that to fund Jonas Salk ’ s path breaking research which produced the polio vaccine .
And as I quote in that CNN piece , when @ @ @ @ @ @ @ asked Salk , who owns the patent on your vaccine ?
Salk gave a very famous , wonderful answer .
He said , “ Well , it would be the people .
Could you patent the sun ?
” It was just self evident back in the early 1950s that this was a public good for an urgent public need .
MH : So given your quoting of Jonas Salk there , is it fair to say that there ’ s Azar who says the market should decide the price and the availability @ @ @ @ @ @ @ House Speaker Nancy Pelosi who said , well , it should be affordable and then there ’ s Bernie Sanders who says it should be free .
You think it should be free paid for by the government for everyone ?
JS : Of course , because if and when we have such a vaccine , it needs also to be implemented in a public health manner , not in a private over the counter choice of the consumers .
MH : Because we need everyone to get it .
There ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , you need , it ’ s in your interest for everyone else to get it .
JS : It ’ s a so-called mass action effect that we want a mass immunization against pandemic diseases .
So this is a collective shared necessity , not an individual choice of over the counter product .
It ’ s unbelievable how hard it is for American politicians other than Bernie , to think in these terms because it ’ s been so many years that we have lost this basic idea of the public @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the public good , which is an absolutely fundamental and correct idea .
MH : Do you think this coronavirus panic will force , finally force some politicians at least to take a stand against price gouging and patent exploitation by Big Pharma in this country ?
I mean , just a few months ago , Joe Biden was praising them as “ great drug companies out there except for a couple of opioid outfits.
” JS : The scandal of the drug pricing even without a pandemic is terrifying .
Over and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ now observing in this shocking way in the discussion about the coronavirus vaccine actually plays out where the federal government puts in lots of resources .
Lo and behold , the intellectual property so-called becomes private property .
It ’ s patented , there is then legally by construction , a monopoly .
And then that monopolist charges 10 , 100 , even 1,000 times the cost of production causing mass suffering and mass loss of lives and that ’ s considered normal .
I can give you one case which I followed @ @ @ @ @ @ @ least favorite companies in this country markets a very effective cure against Hepatitis C. Now it bought that from another company that did all of the basic research on that .
But it bought it knowing that it was going to charge an unbelievable price 1,000 times the production costs per pill .
And it has gotten away with that .
MH : You ’ re a Sanders supporter .
Given the results this week , especially in Michigan , how disappointed are you that Bernie hasn ’ t been able to get @ @ @ @ @ @ @ beat Joe Biden to secure the Democratic presidential nomination this time , either , despite all the energy at his rallies , despite all the grassroots support for his policies like Medicare for All , despite all the genuine anger that is out there with the political economic system in this country , and it hasn ’ t translated into victory at the ballot box again .
JS : Look , if Joe Biden is the nominee , I ’ m going to very strongly support him , but I ’ m going @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a great man and a great leader and our most honest and direct politician in this country who has been calling it straight and right for decades , and whose policy positions we need to win .
MH : But why do you think he didn ’ t cut through ?
Is that something in the culture of this country that just resists what you ’ ve talked about in this interview , the idea of government for the greater good ?
JS : Well , I think a lot of the Democratic @ @ @ @ @ @ @ out to the corporate sector .
The mainstream media have been horrible .
The New York Times and The Washington Post writing anti-Bernie pieces every day , unbelievable , and almost never actually on the policies only on his electability or the word socialist or some nonsense , you know , rather than a serious discussion which we urgently need .
Bernie Sanders is a historic figure and he absolutely is making a historic change in this country .
These are policies actually supported by a large majority of Americans even the Americans @ @ @ @ @ @ @ They support the policies .
JS : And this is why we have the chance to continue to follow Bernie to the success of his agenda , even if he doesn ’ t make it to the White House .
MH : And in terms of who makes it to the White House .
One last question briefly , how likely do you think a Trump re-election is at this point ?
Will a coronavirus recession stop him ?
JS : I have to believe the American people will stop him and would @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
This man is absolutely a psychopath and the most incompetent and dangerous person ever to hold this office in the history of the United States .
He is a danger to us every day he is in office , and we have the opportunity and the necessity to do something about it on election day .
MH : Jeffrey Sachs , thanks so much for joining me on Deconstructed .
JS : Well , great to be with you .
Thanks so much .
MH : That was Professor Jeffrey Sachs of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Bernie Sanders there , as you heard , he ’ s the author of the forthcoming book , “ The Ages of Globalization ” which comes out in June .
And that ’ s our show !
Deconstructed is a production of First Look Media and The Intercept .
Our producer is Zach Young .
The show was mixed by Bryan Pugh .
Our theme music was composed by Bart Warshaw .
Betsy Reed is The Intercept ’ s editor in chief .
And I ’ m Mehdi Hasan .
You can follow @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you haven ’ t already , please do subscribe to the show so you can hear it every week .
Go to theintercept.com/deconstructed to subscribe from your podcast platform of choice , iPhone , Android , whatever .
If you ’ re subscribed already , please do leave us a rating or review – it helps new people find the show .
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See you next week .

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From just a handful of cases a few weeks ago, the Covid-19 outbreak in the U.S. has ballooned to over 1,000 cases nationwide. The Trump administration’s public response has ranged from incoherent to incomprehensible: denialism about the scale of the problem, failure to test in sufficient numbers, a reluctance to take coordinated, large-scale government action. It’s also raised questions about the U.S. health care system’s capacity to respond effectively to a health crisis on this scale. Columbia professor and economist Jeffrey Sachs joins Mehdi Hasan to discuss American capitalism’s failure to deal effectively with the coronavirus.
Jeffrey Sachs: With this pandemic, this government has to be judged on its incompetence, its venality, its ignorance and it will add to our costs and our dangers absolutely in an enormously depressing and significant way.
[Music interlude.]
Mehdi Hasan: Welcome to Deconstructed, I’m Mehdi Hasan. We’re in the midst of a corona crisis, and we have a president who can’t or won’t lead and an economic system that’s just not fit for purpose:
JS: When this pandemic started our secretary of health and human services was talking about how the private markets would organize the response. Unbelievable.
MH: That’s my guest, the world-famous economist and author Professor Jeffrey Sachs. So, on today’s Deconstructed, it’s capitalism versus the coronavirus.
Newscaster: Two hundred and fifty-four people die from coronavirus in China on the deadliest day of the outbreak so far.
Newscaster: If millions of people contract the coronavirus, the death toll could still run into the hundreds of thousands.
Newscaster: The coronavirus outbreak is worse than any terror attack.
Newscaster: The terror of the virus is increasing every moment.
Newscaster: Some people are predicting the apocalypse.
MH: It is difficult to describe, summarize, or express with sufficient outrage the many myriad ways in which the Trump administration has screwed up beyond belief in response to the coronavirus pandemic – as the World Health Organization officially classified it on Wednesday.
Remember: lots of countries are dealing with the political, economic, public health fallout from this virus, but none have handled it as badly as the United States, as the Trump administration. The denialism about the scale of the problem, the failure to test in anywhere near sufficient numbers, even now; the earlier refusal by this president to allow Americans back onto American soil simply because he didn’t want the numbers to go up and make him look bad:
Donald J. Trump: I like the numbers being where they are. I don’t need to have the numbers double because of one ship. If they want to take them off, take them off. But if that happens all of a sudden your 240 is obviously gonna be a much higher and probably the 11 will be a higher number.
MH: According to stats collected by Business Insider, as of March 8th, the US had a testing rate of 5 tests per million people. That compares to 347 tests per million in the UK. And three and a half thousand tests per million people in South Korea. More than three and a half thousand! The South Koreans are even testing people at drive-thrus, drive-thrus! How on earth did the United States of America allow any other country beat them at drive-thrus? I mean, seriously.
But look, it turns out, putting a former reality TV star, a thin-skinned narcissist and egomaniac, in charge of the United States government, and then surrounding him with anti-government extremists, isn’t the best move when the country they’re supposed to be governing gets hit by a public health crisis like one we’ve never seen before in our lifetimes.
People are dying. The virus is spreading. Public health professionals are sounding the alarm bell, because it’s going to get worse, much worse, and this is the response from the president of the United States:
DJT: Now, the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus, you know that right? Coronavirus. One of my people came up to me and said Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia. That didn’t work out too well. They tried the impeachment hoax. It’s all turning, they lost. It’s all turning, think of it and this is their new hoax.
MH: But, look, Trump knows what he is doing. Remember, remember what he said in his visit to the CDC:
DJT: You know my uncle, he was a great person. He was at MIT. He taught at MIT for I think a record number of years. He was a great super-genius, Dr. John Trump. I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it. Everyone of these doctors said how do you know so much about this? Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should’ve done that instead of running for president.
MH: This is the guy who’s in charge, who our lives depend upon! Well, actually he’s put Mike Pence in charge, which isn’t much better, given Pence is a spineless sycophant whose priority is pleasing the Dear Leader not protecting public health, and Pence is also an anti-science extremist who thinks smoking doesn’t cause cancer and carbon emissions don’t cause climate change.
By the way, what’s been so depressing is seeing government officials, including respected scientists like the head of the CDC, Dr. Robert Redfield, slathering praise on Trump and trying to keep him happy, rather than speak truth to power and convey the urgency of this problem and the fact that the United States is way way behind where it should be. Here’s Redfield welcoming Trump to the CDC:
Robert Redfield: Well, I think first I want to thank you for your decisive leadership in helping us you know, put public health first. I also want to thank you for coming here today and sort of encouraging and bringing energy to the men and women that you see that work every day to try to keep America safe. So I think that’s the most important thing I want to say.
MH: Ugh. I think I feel my breakfast coming up. One good thing though that Redfield did say, this week:
RR: The truth is, we’ve not invested, we’ve under-invested in the public health lab —
Congressperson: There aren’t enough people to run the tests?
RR: There’s not enough equipment. There’s not enough people. There’s not enough internal capacity. There’s no surge capacity.
MH: Yes, U.S. governments, whether Democratic or Republican, but especially Republican, have under-invested in public health, in public infrastructure, in R&D and scientific discovery.
And that’s what I want to talk about on the show today. Because the coronavirus is really highlighting, showing up, the deficiencies in capitalism, it really is. Especially the U.S. economy, the U.S. hardcore capitalist model, which is just not geared for a crisis like this: I mean, not just in terms of scientific research, but also: guess what? It turns out that not having universal healthcare, not having federally-guaranteed paid sick leave for workers, and allowing Big Pharma to lead the way on vaccines and the pricing of vaccines, isn’t the best move when you’re confronted with a pandemic like the coronavirus which requires people to be able to get tested quickly, which requires people to self-quarantine and stay home from work when they suspect they might have it, which requires everyone to get vaccinated eventually, in order to stop the spread.
There’s a great piece in The Atlantic this week by staff writer Peter Nicholas, headlined “There Are No Libertarians in an Epidemic,” which is well worth your time. Peter writes, and I quote: “Donald Trump’s aim is to brand his opponent an avatar of socialism, whether it’s Joe Biden or Bernie Sanders. But the COVID-19 outbreak demonstrates the emptiness of these sorts of ideological labels. Just as there are no atheists in foxholes, in a national emergency, there’s no truly laissez-faire government.” Oh. Yes. Totally agree.
Another good piece on this subject over at the CNN website that’s worth reading, specifically on the need for a “public health approach” not a private sector-led approach, to tackling the virus and producing a vaccine, is by Jeffrey Sachs, professor and director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University, who is also a former adviser to Bernie Sanders and a former adviser on poverty and development to the United Nations Secretary General. Its headline, his piece’s headline is “The Trump administration’s ludicrous approach to the coronavirus vaccine.”
And I’m pleased to say that Professor Jeffrey Sachs joins me now.
Jeffrey Sachs, thanks for joining me on Deconstructed.
JS: Good to be with you.
MH: Jeff, there’s been a lot of talk about the public health implications of this pandemic, as the WHO now calls the coronavirus. There’s also been a lot of talk about the implications for the stock market, for the economy. I want to take a step back with you and ask a bigger question about whether or not there’s something about capitalism, and specifically, the American neoliberal model of capitalism which makes this country and this economy, particularly ill-suited, and ill-equipped to deal with a health crisis like this.
JS: We don’t have a public health system. We have a for-profit, private system. We have tens of millions of people that have no health coverage. We have people that have no primary care physicians. We have no systematic testing. We are scrambling, and it has been weeks with this virus multiplying, with the pandemic spreading in the United States. And effectively so far with essentially zero response by the government. Yeah, we’re just way, way behind. And it reflects the institutions and the mindset because even when this pandemic started, our Secretary of Health and Human Services was talking about how the private markets would organize the response. Unbelievable.
MH: Yes, and I do want to come back to Alex Azar in a moment, just you mentioned the kind of lack of coverage which is, of course, where the mind goes first. How much is a glaring lack of universal health care in the US going to further exacerbate this crisis especially compared to other countries which are also dealing with the coronavirus? I’m from the UK which has a national health service, but they don’t have this problem that the US especially has.
JS: I was just speaking with somebody who was saying that they could not get information from their state public health officials. They were told to go to primary care doctors that they don’t have, there is no testing being done. This is of course an anecdote, but it’s what we’re hearing from all over the United States right now. I’m hearing from doctors in hospitals without the facilities, without the testing kits, without the advice from public health officials. It’s rather shocking.
MH: Just this week, the Vice President refused to take questions at the White House about whether the uninsured would have access to the vaccine if and when a vaccine is produced, which is pretty shocking as you say and shoddy. What’s also amazing and this is not really the show or the discussion to get deep into party politics, but it is worth noting that at a time when everyone realizes the dire implications of not having access to healthcare or not being able to pay for health care, the presidential candidate who you’ve advised and who’s, who’s advocating universal single payer health care is losing not winning in elections which says a lot about the political culture in this country.
JS: It is odd because an overwhelming proportion of Americans want universal health coverage, survey after survey shows this. We have a very peculiar politics in this country.
MH: So Jeff, what do you do about a political, economic, social culture that as you’ve seen over the decades, kind of arguing about this stuff, studying this stuff, that seems in part so viscerally anti-government, so anti-the public sector, anti-the public realm. It’s all about free markets, all about sturdy individualism, and then a crisis like this hits.
JS: Of course, that’s not really the public’s attitude. This is the lobbying speaking. This is the plutocracy. The public wants something different, but they can’t find it. And then when you have a candidate like Bernie Sanders who presents rather straightforwardly the right approach, the entire mainstream media is aghast, is shocked and does nothing but denigrate those policy recommendations. So we are deeply confused. In the United States, our system has been failing for, I would say 40 years because it really started with Ronald Reagan as president. It’s not just shocking to watch politically but it is at the point of grave danger for the American people.
MH: I think the word you use it stood out there was confused because there is a lot of confusion among you know, people in the media and in politics, who on the one hand, as you say, they will batter a Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren even for talking about universal health care or single payer. How will you pay for it? Why do we need it? And then those are the same people who are also demanding the Trump administration do something now that you know, the government should step in and do something and they don’t see the kind of the contradiction there.
JS: It was like the famous sign a few years ago, “Government, keep your hands off of my Medicare.”
MH: Yes, during the Tea Party era. I want to come back to Tea Party in a moment. Peter Nicholas, who’s a staff writer at The Atlantic wrote a rather good piece this week, under the rather apt headline, “There are no libertarians in an epidemic,” talking about the ideological corner that Republicans have backed themselves into by always denouncing government interventions of any kind as socialism, as communism, as Marxism. Now you have a Trump administration which has to basically lead some form of large scale government action to prevent this getting worse. How are they going to thread that needle? Do you think they’re even going to bother?
JS: I think it’s also like Bernie Sanders always says, there is definitely socialism for the rich. I recall just in a different episode, in September 2008 when the financial crisis brought to us by our friendly Wall Street banks, led to a massive financial debacle, there was the Wall Street Journal saying, “Oh, we have to remember market failures. This is the time for a bailout.” So there’s —
MH: And now we’re talking about a bailout for the hotel industry for the aviation industry. Trump is very happy to bail out his friends in those big companies.
JS: He actually talked about if you really want to get your head spinning, talked about bailing out the fracking industry, the fracking, fracking industry.
MH: Top of the list of what you think of when you think of a public health crisis.
JS: That’s it.
MH: You made a good point about, you know, the mindset. You can’t make this stuff up. The Republicans are asked, what are you going to do about this crisis? And their response is tax cuts which is their response to everything. They’ve been pitching this idea, this week of 700 billion dollars of payroll tax cuts. As an economist by training, what’s your response to that?
JS: Well, it’s so absurd that maybe it will open eyes that this whole idea, by the way, both parties I have to say, of stimulus tax cuts, turning dials when we have deep structural crises, like a pandemic, like climate change, meaning that it’s not a matter of gimmicks. It’s not a matter of aggregate demand to use the jargon of macro-economists. It’s focusing on stopping a pathogen from spreading. It’s saving lives. It is taking public health measures. And similarly, on climate change or other grave crises that we face. It’s not a matter of a stimulus bill or boosting the economy. It’s a matter of focusing on solutions, making the spending and investments directed toward the specific problems or the regulations directed toward the specific problems. We haven’t been doing that for a long, long time.
MH: And what’s interesting, of course, is when they do pitch these kind of tax cuts, no one asks how are you going to pay for that? We spent the last year asking various Democratic presidential candidates how they’re going to pay for their various policies. But you know, crisis hits, Republicans call for unfunded tax cuts. You talk about solutions, a rather extreme solution, I think it’s fair to say, pitched by Rick Santelli, the stock trader, rather odious CNBC commentator, the guy who launched the Tea Party back in 2009 by blaming the quote losers who couldn’t pay their mortgage bills. He said last week that instead of quarantines…
Rick Santelli: Maybe we’d be just better off if we gave it to everybody and then in a month, it would be over because the mortality rate of this probably isn’t going to be any different if we did it that way than the long term picture. But the difference is we’re really wreaking havoc on global and domestic economies.
JS: There are some things that don’t even deserve a response, frankly.
MH: Sociopathic.
JS: Well, the idiocy of so much of our daily life right now, of course, with a psychopathic president to start has meant that the nature of our discussion is tragically sad and we go along with it. We don’t, many of us are aghast every day, but it’s tolerated as long as the stock market is booming.
MH: That is the prism that we seem to see so much of the world through in this country.
JS: Now the stock market is in a tailspin because they’re recognizing stimulus or not, interest rate cuts or not, tax cuts or not. We are in a very, very serious crisis right now. There is no easy answer to this pandemic wave.
MH: Agreed.
JS: This is the real issue.
MH: There was a headline in the New Republic magazine the other day referring to Santelli’s ridiculous comments under the headline, “The Invisible Hand wants you dead,” which might sound like left wing hyperbole, but right now it feels kind of true.
JS: I think, of course, again, it’s unpleasant to listen to people who know nothing talking about life and death issues. So it’s just unpleasant to begin with. But what is also true is given the state of affairs right now, we have a really deep, deep crisis. It’s a crisis of lives. It’s a crisis of health, and no matter what is done, it is also a crisis of the economy that’s very deep and that none of the traditional measures such as they are which don’t work very well in in any circumstance are appropriate right now.
MH: You say a crisis of life. Just on that note, I interviewed a top epidemiologist recently, who’s at Harvard, who said that the likes of Donald Trump and Boris Johnson, Prime Minister in the UK, who clearly haven’t taken this pandemic seriously, who haven’t committed the resources or attention necessary, he said they could have blood on their hands. Would you go as far as that?
JS: I believe that even Trump’s policies on climate change is a crime against humanity because it is leading to loss of lives and grave, grave damage to vast numbers of people. I believe that Trump’s sanctions on countries like Venezuela and Iran which cripple their health system and then lead to mass suffering is a crime against humanity. And, of course with this pandemic, this government has to be judged on its incompetence, its venality, its ignorance, and it will add to our costs and our dangers absolutely in an enormously depressing and significant way.
MH: Just shifting gear, but sticking with the economy, I also hear people, everyone from the Trump administration to the CDC, to Barack Obama on Twitter saying, “If you feel sick, if you think you’re infected, stay home, don’t go to work” which is easy to say if you can afford it. But in a country like the U.S. one of the only industrialized countries on earth, which doesn’t guarantee paid sick leave, a lot of people can’t afford to just stay home. So they’re going to go to work out of necessity, and then spread the virus.
JS: But even staying home requires access to medicines, to social support systems, to food deliveries, to testing —
MH: None of which has been thought through.
JS: None of that is in place because we don’t have such support systems in this country.
MH: Every man for himself, fend for yourselves.
JS: Well, this is the tragedy.
MH: In your CNN online piece headlined “The Trump administration’s ludicrous approach to coronavirus vaccine,” you discuss and you mentioned them at the top Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar and his statement recently, not just about kind of let the markets do their thing. He said:
Alex Azar: Frankly, this has such global attention right now and the private market players, major pharmaceutical players, as you’ve heard, are engaged in this. The market here we believe will actually sort that out in terms of demand, purchasing, stocking, etc. We’ll work on that to make sure that we’re able to accelerate vaccines as well as therapeutic research and development.
MH: Can you translate what he’s saying? What on earth is he trying to say there?
JS: Well, it’s like a Saturday Night Live opening. You would think that it’s a spoof. I had to read that several times to believe it. What he is saying is that as usual, our government through a wonderful institution, the National Institutes of Health, will promote scientific discovery, will spend money on the vaccine as it should. But then whatever is learned will be handed over to private companies. And they will develop a vaccine and then charge what they want because that’s the American system. So he was asked in Congress, specifically, “Mr. Secretary, could you guarantee that a vaccine would be affordable?” And he said, “No, I can’t, because the market will determine the price of the vaccine.”
MH: Even in a pandemic?
JS: In a pandemic, and in a case explicitly where the research and development is being funded by the US government. It shows —
MH: Socialism for the rich as you quoted Bernie saying, and Azar of course, surprise, surprise, breaking news is a former drug industry lobbyist.
JS: This is exactly his job and is exactly his job qualification. That’s why he has this job. All across our government, Trump has put literally lobbyists, you don’t have to lobby anymore. They’re in the position itself.
MH: Drain the swamp. In your piece, you also mentioned how FDR who suffered from polio set up a publicly funded initiative to try and get a cure for polio which worked. What lessons Do you think we could draw from that today? I mean, putting aside the fact that the Trump administration has no interest in learning from FDR, but what lessons can the rest of us learn when it comes to getting ready for a potential coronavirus vaccine?
JS: Franklin Roosevelt was the greatest president in American history and also a remarkable human being and a great inspiration because of course, he had a crippling bout with polio. And in 1938, as the polio epidemic was spreading across the United States, he launched at that time, a non-governmental effort called the March of Dimes which took donations from the public and used that to fund Jonas Salk’s path breaking research which produced the polio vaccine. And as I quote in that CNN piece, when Edward R. Murrow of CBS News, asked Salk, who owns the patent on your vaccine? Salk gave a very famous, wonderful answer. He said, “Well, it would be the people. Could you patent the sun?” It was just self evident back in the early 1950s that this was a public good for an urgent public need.
MH: So given your quoting of Jonas Salk there, is it fair to say that there’s Azar who says the market should decide the price and the availability of the vaccine, there’s House Speaker Nancy Pelosi who said, well, it should be affordable and then there’s Bernie Sanders who says it should be free. You think it should be free paid for by the government for everyone?
JS: Of course, because if and when we have such a vaccine, it needs also to be implemented in a public health manner, not in a private over the counter choice of the consumers.
MH: Because we need everyone to get it. There’s no point just getting it for yourself, you need, it’s in your interest for everyone else to get it.
JS: It’s a so-called mass action effect that we want a mass immunization against pandemic diseases. So this is a collective shared necessity, not an individual choice of over the counter product. It’s unbelievable how hard it is for American politicians other than Bernie, to think in these terms because it’s been so many years that we have lost this basic idea of the public good and the idea of government for the public good, which is an absolutely fundamental and correct idea.
MH: Do you think this coronavirus panic will force, finally force some politicians at least to take a stand against price gouging and patent exploitation by Big Pharma in this country? I mean, just a few months ago, Joe Biden was praising them as “great drug companies out there except for a couple of opioid outfits.”
JS: The scandal of the drug pricing even without a pandemic is terrifying. Over and over again, what we’re now observing in this shocking way in the discussion about the coronavirus vaccine actually plays out where the federal government puts in lots of resources. Lo and behold, the intellectual property so-called becomes private property. It’s patented, there is then legally by construction, a monopoly. And then that monopolist charges 10, 100, even 1,000 times the cost of production causing mass suffering and mass loss of lives and that’s considered normal. I can give you one case which I followed closely, Gilead, one of my least favorite companies in this country markets a very effective cure against Hepatitis C. Now it bought that from another company that did all of the basic research on that. But it bought it knowing that it was going to charge an unbelievable price 1,000 times the production costs per pill. And it has gotten away with that.
MH: You’re a Sanders supporter. Given the results this week, especially in Michigan, how disappointed are you that Bernie hasn’t been able to get the turnout, the votes needed to beat Joe Biden to secure the Democratic presidential nomination this time, either, despite all the energy at his rallies, despite all the grassroots support for his policies like Medicare for All, despite all the genuine anger that is out there with the political economic system in this country, and it hasn’t translated into victory at the ballot box again.
JS: Look, if Joe Biden is the nominee, I’m going to very strongly support him, but I’m going to continue to support Bernie Sanders as a great man and a great leader and our most honest and direct politician in this country who has been calling it straight and right for decades, and whose policy positions we need to win.
MH: But why do you think he didn’t cut through? Is that something in the culture of this country that just resists what you’ve talked about in this interview, the idea of government for the greater good?
JS: Well, I think a lot of the Democratic Party itself, obviously has its hand out to the corporate sector. The mainstream media have been horrible. The New York Times and The Washington Post writing anti-Bernie pieces every day, unbelievable, and almost never actually on the policies only on his electability or the word socialist or some nonsense, you know, rather than a serious discussion which we urgently need. Bernie Sanders is a historic figure and he absolutely is making a historic change in this country. These are policies actually supported by a large majority of Americans even the Americans that are not voting for Bernie. They support the policies.
MH: That’s true.
JS: And this is why we have the chance to continue to follow Bernie to the success of his agenda, even if he doesn’t make it to the White House.
MH: And in terms of who makes it to the White House. One last question briefly, how likely do you think a Trump re-election is at this point? Will a coronavirus recession stop him?
JS: I have to believe the American people will stop him and would have stopped him even without the coronavirus. This man is absolutely a psychopath and the most incompetent and dangerous person ever to hold this office in the history of the United States. He is a danger to us every day he is in office, and we have the opportunity and the necessity to do something about it on election day.
MH: Jeffrey Sachs, thanks so much for joining me on Deconstructed.
JS: Well, great to be with you. Thanks so much.
MH: That was Professor Jeffrey Sachs of Columbia University, a proud supporter of Bernie Sanders there, as you heard, he’s the author of the forthcoming book, “The Ages of Globalization” which comes out in June.
And that’s our show! Deconstructed is a production of First Look Media and The Intercept. Our producer is Zach Young. The show was mixed by Bryan Pugh. Our theme music was composed by Bart Warshaw. Betsy Reed is The Intercept’s editor in chief.
And I’m Mehdi Hasan. You can follow me on Twitter @mehdirhasan. If you haven’t already, please do subscribe to the show so you can hear it every week. Go to theintercept.com/deconstructed to subscribe from your podcast platform of choice, iPhone, Android, whatever. If you’re subscribed already, please do leave us a rating or review – it helps new people find the show. And if you want to give us feedback, email us at Podcasts@theintercept.com. Thanks so much!
See you next week.


theintercept--2020-03-12--Trump Mistakenly Announces Ban on All Travel and Imports From Europe, Then Backtracks

The confusion had started during the address , when Trump said that the ban on “ all travel from Europe ” was necessary “ to keep new cases from entering our shores , ” but would not include the United Kingdom , where coronavirus has spread widely enough to have infected at least 459 people , including the country ’ s health minister .
Lashing out at Europe for the spread of the “ foreign ” coronavirus to the United States , President Donald Trump told the American people on Wednesday he would halt all travel and imports from the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ officials scrambled to correct him , explaining that the 30-day ban would only apply to some foreigners traveling from some European countries and not at all to goods .
We will be suspending all travel from Europe , except the United Kingdom , for the next 30 days .
The policy goes into effect Friday at midnight .
pic.twitter.com/Yeq1gVCIln Hours after Trump announced the ban , and the exception , Prime Minister Boris Johnson warned the British public that the number of cases of the illness caused by the coronavirus — COVID-19 — @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , the true number of cases is higher , perhaps much higher , than the number of cases we have so far confirmed with tests.
” Since the U.K. never joined the Schengen area , but still permits visa-free travel from all of those nations , enforcing the new ban will not be easy .
The backtracking began almost as soon as the president had finished speaking .
As aides told reporters there was no ban on goods or cargo , the acting Homeland Security secretary tweeted that the travel ban was not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ foreign citizens coming from one of the 26 European nations that make up the Schengen Area , a region in which travelers can cross borders without passports .
While most European Union nations are in Schengen , five are not : Ireland , Croatia , Bulgaria , Romania and Cyprus .
The ban will also not apply to European countries that are not in the E.U.
, including Russia and Ukraine .
`` This is the worst public health crisis for a generation '' UK PM Boris Johnson says it is `` not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , adding `` many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time '' as the virus spreads https : //t.co/0jp2YH9bl2 # CoronavirusPandemic pic.twitter.com/WriDAlPjIT “ Some people compare it to the seasonal flu , ” Johnson added , with a clarity lacking from Trump ’ s own statements , “ alas that is not right .
Owing to the lack of immunity , this disease is more dangerous.
” While excluding the U.K. from the ban appears to make no epidemiological sense — and the whole policy of travel restriction seems @ @ @ @ @ @ @ already spreading inside the United States — Trump might see the measure as a way to punish the European Union , the multinational bloc he encouraged the U.K. to withdraw from this year .
Trump detests the E.U .
as an economic competitor and seems personally affronted by the way its leaders foster a pan-European identity as a counterweight to the ethnic nationalism he prefers .
“ The European Union is a group of countries that got together to screw the United States — it ’ s as simple as that , ” @ @ @ @ @ @ @ by Rudy Giuliani ’ s Ukraine fixer in 2018 .
“ They ’ re worse than China in the sense of barriers ; we lose 151 billion with them , ” he added .
“ The European Union is really bad , ” the president told the all-white group of donors .
“ You know it doesn ’ t sound like it , you know , the European Union , we ’ re all sort of from there , right ?
” In his speech , Trump boasted that his decision to restrict @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the coronavirus to the U.S. and claimed that European nations had higher levels of infection now because “ The European Union failed to take the same precautions.
” In fact , the virus might have reached Europe first simply because it is on the same landmass as China , and the extent of infection in the U.S. remains unknown , since a far smaller number of people have been tested for the disease .
Without citing evidence , Trump also claimed that a ban was justified because “ a large number of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ seeded by travelers from Europe.
” A proclamation posted on the White House website Wednesday night also listed a wide range of exceptions for Europeans who might be exempt from the ban , and made clear that it does not apply to American citizens or permanent residents .
Trump ’ s address focused so much on the new travel restrictions that he mentioned only in passing the measures that have helped to slow the spread of the virus in places like South Korea and Hong Kong — widespread testing and avoiding crowded spaces @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sooner than later .
Trump also claimed that health insurance executives he met with “ have agreed to waive all copayments for coronavirus treatments.
” “ For testing .
Not for treatment , ” a spokesperson for the powerful health insurance lobby , America ’ s Health Insurance Plans , told Sarah Owermohle of Politico .
When he mistakenly announced the import ban , it seems possible that Trump simply misread the teleprompter , as is his wont — perhaps by inserting the word “ only ” into the meandering phrase : “ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the tremendous amount of trade and cargo , but various other things as we get approval.
” “ Anything coming from Europe to the United States is what we are discussing , ” the president added , in a statement that sounded both definitive and like the sort of conversational aside he often slips into speeches after stumbling over prepared remarks .
Near the start of the address , Trump also clearly misread another portion of the written text , and used his signature move of pretending that he meant to say the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
“ I am confident , ” Trump said , “ that by counting — and continuing — to take these tough measures , we will significantly reduce the threat to our citizens .
”

Lashing out at Europe for the spread of the “foreign” coronavirus to the United States, President Donald Trump told the American people on Wednesday he would halt all travel and imports from the continent. Within minutes, White House officials scrambled to correct him, explaining that the 30-day ban would only apply to some foreigners traveling from some European countries and not at all to goods.
The confusion had started during the address, when Trump said that the ban on “all travel from Europe” was necessary “to keep new cases from entering our shores,” but would not include the United Kingdom, where coronavirus has spread widely enough to have infected at least 459 people, including the country’s health minister.
We will be suspending all travel from Europe, except the United Kingdom, for the next 30 days. The policy goes into effect Friday at midnight. pic.twitter.com/Yeq1gVCIln — The White House 45 Archived (@WhiteHouse45) March 12, 2020
The backtracking began almost as soon as the president had finished speaking. As aides told reporters there was no ban on goods or cargo, the acting Homeland Security secretary tweeted that the travel ban was not Europe-wide. It would only apply to foreign citizens coming from one of the 26 European nations that make up the Schengen Area, a region in which travelers can cross borders without passports. While most European Union nations are in Schengen, five are not: Ireland, Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania and Cyprus. The ban will also not apply to European countries that are not in the E.U., including Russia and Ukraine.
Since the U.K. never joined the Schengen area, but still permits visa-free travel from all of those nations, enforcing the new ban will not be easy.
Hours after Trump announced the ban, and the exception, Prime Minister Boris Johnson warned the British public that the number of cases of the illness caused by the coronavirus — COVID-19 — would probably “rise sharply — indeed, the true number of cases is higher, perhaps much higher, than the number of cases we have so far confirmed with tests.”
"This is the worst public health crisis for a generation" UK PM Boris Johnson says it is "not right" to compare coronavirus to flu, adding "many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time" as the virus spreadshttps://t.co/0jp2YH9bl2 #CoronavirusPandemic pic.twitter.com/WriDAlPjIT — BBC News (UK) (@BBCNews) March 12, 2020
“Some people compare it to the seasonal flu,” Johnson added, with a clarity lacking from Trump’s own statements, “alas that is not right. Owing to the lack of immunity, this disease is more dangerous.”
While excluding the U.K. from the ban appears to make no epidemiological sense — and the whole policy of travel restriction seems misguided, now that the virus is already spreading inside the United States — Trump might see the measure as a way to punish the European Union, the multinational bloc he encouraged the U.K. to withdraw from this year.
Trump detests the E.U. as an economic competitor and seems personally affronted by the way its leaders foster a pan-European identity as a counterweight to the ethnic nationalism he prefers.
“The European Union is a group of countries that got together to screw the United States — it’s as simple as that,” Trump said at a private dinner recorded by Rudy Giuliani’s Ukraine fixer in 2018. “They’re worse than China in the sense of barriers; we lose 151 billion with them,” he added. “The European Union is really bad,” the president told the all-white group of donors. “You know it doesn’t sound like it, you know, the European Union, we’re all sort of from there, right?”
In his speech, Trump boasted that his decision to restrict travel from China had slowed the spread of the coronavirus to the U.S. and claimed that European nations had higher levels of infection now because “The European Union failed to take the same precautions.” In fact, the virus might have reached Europe first simply because it is on the same landmass as China, and the extent of infection in the U.S. remains unknown, since a far smaller number of people have been tested for the disease.
Without citing evidence, Trump also claimed that a ban was justified because “a large number of new clusters in the United States were seeded by travelers from Europe.”
A proclamation posted on the White House website Wednesday night also listed a wide range of exceptions for Europeans who might be exempt from the ban, and made clear that it does not apply to American citizens or permanent residents.
Trump’s address focused so much on the new travel restrictions that he mentioned only in passing the measures that have helped to slow the spread of the virus in places like South Korea and Hong Kong — widespread testing and avoiding crowded spaces — which Americans might need to adopt sooner than later.
Trump also claimed that health insurance executives he met with “have agreed to waive all copayments for coronavirus treatments.”
“For testing. Not for treatment,” a spokesperson for the powerful health insurance lobby, America’s Health Insurance Plans, told Sarah Owermohle of Politico.
When he mistakenly announced the import ban, it seems possible that Trump simply misread the teleprompter, as is his wont — perhaps by inserting the word “only” into the meandering phrase: “these prohibitions will not only apply to the tremendous amount of trade and cargo, but various other things as we get approval.”
“Anything coming from Europe to the United States is what we are discussing,” the president added, in a statement that sounded both definitive and like the sort of conversational aside he often slips into speeches after stumbling over prepared remarks.
Near the start of the address, Trump also clearly misread another portion of the written text, and used his signature move of pretending that he meant to say the incorrect word in addition the correct one. “I am confident,” Trump said, “that by counting — and continuing — to take these tough measures, we will significantly reduce the threat to our citizens.”
https://twitter.com/typoprone/status/1237934649948508160
As Chris Hayes pointed out in 2018, Trump does this all the time to avoid admitting he misspoke — but usually the confusion he generates in doing so is not enough to generate global panic.
An hour after Trump concluded his address from the Oval Office, he tried to clean up his mistake without admitting it, by tweeting: “please remember, very important for all countries & businesses to know that trade will in no way be affected by the 30-day restriction on travel from Europe. The restriction stops people not goods.”
Updated: Thursday, March 12, 4:58 pm EDT
This article was revised to add comments from British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and note that before President Donald Trump mistakenly declared a ban on imports from Europe on Wednesday night, he made another obvious error in reading his prepared statement but tried to cover it up by pretending that he meant to say both the wrong word and the right one.