democracynow--2020-09-17--A Crisis Made in America: Yemen on Brink of Famine After U.S. Cuts Aid While Fueling War

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : More than nine months into the coronavirus pandemic , the United Nations is warning millions in Yemen , South Sudan , northeast Nigeria and the Democratic Republic of Congo now face famine due to the compounding crises of economic devastation , violent conflicts and lack of access to humanitarian aid .
U.N. official Mark Lowcock said a lack of funding for humanitarian relief has pushed already-precarious populations to the brink of starvation .
In Yemen , where 80 % of the population @ @ @ @ @ @ @ States , Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates have all slashed aid to the country .
This comes as the U.S.-backed , Saudi-led coalition continues to bomb Yemen , where millions face hunger , disease and extreme poverty in what ’ s been called the worst humanitarian crisis in the world , even before the pandemic .
In a moment , we ’ ll talk about the crisis in Yemen with Sudanese journalist Nima Elbagir .
She was named the 2020 Royal Television Society Television Journalist of the Year .
She ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ But first , we ’ re turning to her report for CNN called “ Yemen : A Crisis Made in America.
” AMY GOODMAN : That ’ s the CNN exclusive , “ Yemen : A Crisis Made in America , ” as we turn now to London , where we ’ re joined by the journalist who produced that report .
Nima Elbagir is an award-winning senior international correspondent for CNN .
She was named the 2020 Royal Television Society Television Journalist of the Year .
She also won an Alfred duPont-Columbia @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , she also received the International Center for Journalists Excellence in International Reporting Award for her work .
Nima , we welcome you to Democracy Now !
This is a powerful report , “ Yemen : A Crisis Made in America , ” as you talk about the United States , Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates cutting off aid to Yemen , largely , yet continuing , as you report , on this report and earlier ones , to find U.S. weapons on the ground in Yemen .
Talk about the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it ’ s a very clear and — it ’ s a very clear connection .
It ’ s an incredibly egregious one .
When the war launched five years ago , the U.S. backed the Saudi-led invasion after the Houthis overthrew the legitimately — the legitimate , internationally recognized government of President Abdu Rabbu Mansour Hadi .
What complicated the issue is , even after the Obama administration found that the Saudis and the coalition were not taking into account the impact on civilians or their deployment of U.S. weaponry , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ administration came in , they immediately overturned that suspension .
So , there was a foreknowledge of the involvement and the impact and the ways that U.S. support entrenched this conflict .
But for years now , we ’ ve seen another pattern start to come together , which is , not only is the U.S. profiting from the war by selling weapons to the UAE and Saudi Arabia , who are both partners in the coalition , they also — the inspector general who was forced out from the State Department found @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the impact on civilians of that deployment of U.S. armaments by the UAE and by Saudi Arabia .
We fast-forward two or three years of this extraordinary , controversial action , and then we start to see — we start coming across these numbers that are starting to drop .
The UAE in 2017 gave zero dollars to the U.N. humanitarian assistance program , even though it was an active member of the coalition .
Saudi Arabia gave a billion , but only really after the U.N. , at the end of last @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and said Yemen is slipping into famine .
So , there was all this work and all this investment and all this , frankly , shaming of the U.S. and the UAE and Saudi Arabia to force them to put — to put right what they had made wrong on the ground in Yemen .
And then , in March , Secretary Pompeo , the secretary of state , decides that they are going to suspend aid to those Houthi-controlled areas .
And , yes , the Houthis are obstructing aid , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Houthis are not the only one .
This is a war in which food and starvation have been weaponized by both sides .
And that ’ s when we saw the drop , and that ’ s when we saw the numbers .
And what really spurred our reporting was that even the U.N. has not been able to access these areas to get a measure , a metric , of whether Yemen truly is in famine .
And I don ’ t know if you know this , Amy , but famine @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , where it ’ s two out of every 10,000 people dying from hunger every day .
In Yemen , because so many people can ’ t afford to even come to the hospital , they are dying at home alone and uncounted .
So the world can ’ t even respond in the ways that it would if we were able to say there was a famine .
It was a very difficult report to pull together , because we were trying to pull this all remotely from London because of the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ But I hope that we managed to get across the key message here , which is this is not — this is not a natural disaster .
This is a man-made catastrophe in which our governments are complicit .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Well , Nima , you mentioned that a large number of people , the majority of people , in Yemen — and in the report you say so , as well — that the ones who make it to the hospital are the lucky ones .
And in this piece , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in these hospitals .
So , could you talk about what has happened to the currency , the Yemeni rial , that has made not only food and drinking water effectively unaffordable , but also fuel , and how important fuel is to keep these medical facilities going and to keep many people , including children , alive ?
NIMA ELBAGIR : So , in addition to the drawdown on their aid contributions , the U.S. has also been backing a five-year-long blockade by the Saudi-led coalition .
What that means , effectively @ @ @ @ @ @ @ vessels that were bringing food , that were bringing goods from the outside world to Yemen , have not been able to dock at that key point in Hodeidah in the south that is so heavily contested .
So that means fuel , if you can find it , is incredibly expensive .
And in a way , even more torturously , there is food , but because the currency has spiraled and been devalued so many times and there is so little work available , people can not afford it .
We @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , before it even got this bad , and I think one of the most heartbreaking things I ’ ve witnessed personally is driving through markets that are full of food , and you see the people selling the food , the vegetables , the grains .
They themselves are almost skeletal .
And the food is rotting , because no one can afford to buy it .
And one of the stories we heard in the hospital , that we didn ’ t air but we included in our digital write-up , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ one of the worst things I ’ ve ever heard , is that the impact of that blockade has meant that the hospitals don ’ t have fuel .
And now because the U.N. can not afford to sustain the hospitals and they ’ re having to focus on just really life-saving measures , they ’ re not buying them fuel .
So , when the electricity goes out , the equipment , the oxygen equipment , the breathing equipment that is keeping the most malnourished and the sickest children alive , that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ no electricity , there are no monitors to raise the alarm that that stopped .
And one doctor who spoke to us , who was — his voice was breaking .
And he said that he had found children suffocated to death , because while they ’ re running around trying to tend to everyone in these overcrowded hospitals , if you turn your back for a moment on a child in a different room and the power goes out , that child dies .
And what is so difficult , and yet @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to come to work .
They turn up every day , knowing that they do not have what it takes to save these children , and yet they continue to try .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Nima , can you talk about — the Trump administration has not only cut funding to Yemen , the Trump administration also announced earlier this year that they would cut funding to the World Health Organization .
So , could you talk about the work that the World Health Organization does in Yemen , has done in Yemen @ @ @ @ @ @ @ impacted by these cuts ?
NIMA ELBAGIR : Well , this has absolutely been a double whammy for Yemen , because the World Health Organization runs a lot of the malnutrition clinics , but it also runs all of the programs that are designed to battle transmittable diseases , such as the coronavirus .
So , they are the ones paying the doctor and nurses ’ salaries , because the Houthi-led government in Sana ’ a can ’ t afford to , but they ’ re also the ones at the frontline of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is impossible , it is absolutely impossible , to get any sense of the numbers of the people that have died from the coronavirus , separately to the number of the people that have died from malnutrition .
But because of this — I keep saying “ aid drawdown , ” and it makes it sound so clinical .
It is essentially , because of this strangling of the aid that gets through to the people in Yemen , it has meant that not only are they dealing with malnutrition , because the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that these people receive , so not only are you getting half rations and it ’ s reaching half the people , but it means that people are getting food every other month .
So you have to plan one meal a day .
Parents are not eating so that children can eat .
But then , if you have the horrible misfortune of coming down with the coronavirus , there are no facilities that are able to support any kind of — I mean , we don ’ t have a cure @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to keep people comfortable .
So , one of the things that we did to get a sense of this is we started speaking to gravediggers .
And even they don ’ t have the numbers .
All they can tell us is that the actual legitimate , government-licensed cemeteries are full .
So now people are bribing gravediggers to find plots of land in places where other people can not or will not venture , in dangerous parts of these cities , so that at the very least they can try and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ burying their loved ones , effectively , rather than leaving them to rot in a mortuary somewhere .
AMY GOODMAN : Nima , I want to go to a briefing that Mark Lowcock , the under-secretary-general for humanitarian affairs , gave on Tuesday to the U.N. Security Council .
He called out the oil-rich Gulf states for turning away from the situation in Yemen .
AMY GOODMAN : That ’ s the U.N. Under-Secretary-General Mark Lowcock .
So , Nima Elbagir , if you can talk about — it ’ s even wrong @ @ @ @ @ @ @ away from Yemen .
They have not turned away from Yemen .
They are constantly bombing Yemen .
In fact , on Tuesday , President Trump stood with the foreign minister of the United Arab Emirates , and , of course , we know Saudi Arabia leads the bombing , bombs provided by the United States .
And part of the deal didn ’ t actually have to do with the Palestinians , that was signed off on at the White House .
It had to do with the United States selling the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ about the significance of , once again , these weapons deals to hunger and the devastation of Yemen ?
NIMA ELBAGIR : Well , it sends a message , doesn ’ t it ?
It sends a message not just in Yemen , but it sends a message around the world , that you can do what you want to do as long as you — as long as you sign up for our key concerns .
And a number of U.S. diplomats have described to me conversations that they ’ ve had @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and essentially the subtext of the conversation was , “ Well , we have signed — the UAE has signed a peace deal with Israel .
And we know that this is a key priority for the Trump administration .
So , what more do you want from us ?
” What we know about Yemen is that Yemen was a national security risk to the United States .
It was home to the most effective franchise of al-Qaeda , al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula , who at one point got very @ @ @ @ @ @ @ bomb on a plane and send it to the United States .
That was always given as the excuse for the reason why the United States needs to continue to be engaged in Yemen .
What has happened with allowing key U.S. allies , like the UAE and Saudi Arabia , to do what they have done in Yemen is that this hunger and this conflict has allowed not just al-Qaeda , but ISIS to become resurgent in Yemen again .
Just this last week , there were a number of pretty effective @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is measurably less safe because of what their allies have done in Yemen .
But one of the things that is really interesting , that so many of us that are covering foreign affairs are looking at really closely , is that the ICC , the International Criminal Court , has now said that the chief prosecutor , Fatou Bensouda , can begin to look into U.S. war crimes in Afghanistan .
And that is precedent-setting , because given what the IG report , the unredacted version , shows about the U.S. 's @ @ @ @ @ @ @ allies with their bombs , there is a real conversation that is beginning about whether the U.S. is opening itself up for further cases of war crime prosecution on Yemen .
And it 's a pretty incredible case that is being discussed .
And yet , any time that you bring this formally in on record to the State Department or to Trump administration officials , they say , “ Well , this is about American manufacturers , about American workers being able to make money out of American bombs being dropped in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with the engagement that we have found , not just for this piece , but also for the previous investigations that we ’ ve done , is , actually — and , actually , I take heart from this — is that so many of our audience , whether it ’ s in America or around the world , don ’ t believe that .
They don ’ t believe that money should be made over the deaths of innocent civilians halfway around the world , in a country that was already a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
AMY GOODMAN : Nima , we just have 30 seconds , but we can not leave without asking you about Sudan , where you are from , and your coverage of the women-led Sudanese uprising , but also Lowcock warning about the first famines of the coronavirus era hitting , among other places , Yemen and your own country of Sudan .
NIMA ELBAGIR : Again , this goes back to foreign policy malfeasance on the part of the Trump administration .
This is an administration that continued talks to normalize with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ were being shot down in the streets .
It is incredibly disheartening to see people who have risked so much be let down so badly by the United States .
It really is .
AMY GOODMAN : Nima Elbagir , I want to thank you so much for being with us , award-winning senior international correspondent for CNN , based in London , whose Yemen report earlier this week is called “ Yemen : A Crisis Made in America.
” When we come back , we go to the Greek island of Lesbos @ @ @ @ @ @ @ homeless after a fire destroyed one of Europe ’ s largest refugee camps .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: More than nine months into the coronavirus pandemic, the United Nations is warning millions in Yemen, South Sudan, northeast Nigeria and the Democratic Republic of Congo now face famine due to the compounding crises of economic devastation, violent conflicts and lack of access to humanitarian aid. U.N. official Mark Lowcock said a lack of funding for humanitarian relief has pushed already-precarious populations to the brink of starvation. In Yemen, where 80% of the population depends on humanitarian aid, the United States, Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates have all slashed aid to the country. This comes as the U.S.-backed, Saudi-led coalition continues to bomb Yemen, where millions face hunger, disease and extreme poverty in what’s been called the worst humanitarian crisis in the world, even before the pandemic.
In a moment, we’ll talk about the crisis in Yemen with Sudanese journalist Nima Elbagir. She was named the 2020 Royal Television Society Television Journalist of the Year. She’s a senior international correspondent for CNN. But first, we’re turning to her report for CNN called “Yemen: A Crisis Made in America.”
NIMA ELBAGIR: In this packed children’s ward in the main Abs Hospital in the north of Yemen, anxious mothers vie for attention as Dr. Ali Al Ashwal does his rounds.
This little girl is named Hafsa. Her mother tells the doctor Hafsa has five brothers, all malnourished. But Hafsa is the only one they can afford the medicine for.
DR. ALI AL ASHWAL: [translated] How is he today?
NIMA ELBAGIR: This mother of an 8-month-old tells Dr. Al Ashwal her little boy can no longer lift up his head. He’s too weak. His little belly is painfully swollen, a telltale sign of acute malnutrition.
DR. ALI AL ASHWAL: [translated] This is a tragedy. A family of 10 are all squeezed into one room. Four of her children, in three years, dead from malnutrition.
NIMA ELBAGIR: Rows and rows of hungry children, their bodies so stripped of fat that every move is agony. Hard to believe, but these are the lucky ones. These are the children whose parents can afford the car journey to the hospital.
DR. ALI AL ASHWAL: [translated] These are all the patients we admitted. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 cases, just on the first day of September.
NIMA ELBAGIR: Even for Yemen, this is not the norm. Every day brings dozens more patients.
DR. ALI AL ASHWAL: [translated] And here you have death, just one day after we admitted her.
NIMA ELBAGIR: And more death. This patient died this week, a 1-year-old called Fatma. It’s very hard to keep track of exact figures for child deaths, because so many of the children don’t even make it to the hospital. All the doctor knows is that things are getting worse.
DR. ALI AL ASHWAL: [translated] In August and September, our cases have spiked very clearly, most likely because of the withdrawal of support from the NGOs and other centers having to close due to lack of funding.
NIMA ELBAGIR: Why is that? That lack of funding that Dr. Al Ashwal was talking about. Eighty percent of the 30 million population in Yemen is reliant on aid, the majority of whom live in the Ansarullah Houthi-controlled north. The Houthis, seeking to control the flow of aid, placed restrictions on U.N. agencies in areas under their control.
In March, the U.S. suspended much of its aid to the north, citing concerns over Houthi misappropriation. Two other key donors — the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia — have also drawn down. The U.S., UAE and Saudi Arabia have all slashed their Yemen aid spend, the U.S. spend dropping from almost a billion to 411 million, Saudi from over a billion to half that, with only 22.8 million actually received. The UAE has given zero dollars to the U.N.’s 2020 Yemen appeal.
CNN was able to obtain access to a confidential internal U.N. briefing document. U.N. agencies have confirmed to us its contents. In the aftermath of the drop in foreign aid, the U.N. has shuttered almost 75% of its programs.
In previous CNN investigations, we traced serial numbers on armaments in Yemen back to arms deals between Saudi Arabia, the UAE and the U.S., proving that the U.S. government has profited from the chaos of the war in Yemen. And aid agencies tell us that the aid drawdown threatens to wreak even more havoc.
Mushiraya Farah pushes her disabled son in a wheelchair. Mushiraya used to receive support through a U.N.-funded program. Now she can’t even afford to get her son, Asim, to hospital. Malnutrition has left Asim mentally disabled, and she has to choose between feeding him or paying for treatment. She carries him through the little alley that leads to the half-finished building site where she and other displaced families have erected makeshift shelters. Up until a few months ago, she tells us, Asim was like any little boy. But after the family were displaced from their home by fighting, now they live here.
MUSHIRAYA FARAH: [translated] I have no help. I just pray to God.
NIMA ELBAGIR: The aid suspension has driven the people of the Houthi- controlled north into deeper isolation. Yemen’s north could already be in famine, and we might not even know it.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s the CNN exclusive, “Yemen: A Crisis Made in America,” as we turn now to London, where we’re joined by the journalist who produced that report. Nima Elbagir is an award-winning senior international correspondent for CNN. She was named the 2020 Royal Television Society Television Journalist of the Year. She also won an Alfred duPont-Columbia and George Polk Award. In 2018, she also received the International Center for Journalists Excellence in International Reporting Award for her work.
Nima, we welcome you to Democracy Now! This is a powerful report, “Yemen: A Crisis Made in America,” as you talk about the United States, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates cutting off aid to Yemen, largely, yet continuing, as you report, on this report and earlier ones, to find U.S. weapons on the ground in Yemen. Talk about the connection.
NIMA ELBAGIR: Well, it’s a very clear and — it’s a very clear connection. It’s an incredibly egregious one. When the war launched five years ago, the U.S. backed the Saudi-led invasion after the Houthis overthrew the legitimately — the legitimate, internationally recognized government of President Abdu Rabbu Mansour Hadi. What complicated the issue is, even after the Obama administration found that the Saudis and the coalition were not taking into account the impact on civilians or their deployment of U.S. weaponry, and they suspended it, when the Trump administration came in, they immediately overturned that suspension. So, there was a foreknowledge of the involvement and the impact and the ways that U.S. support entrenched this conflict. But for years now, we’ve seen another pattern start to come together, which is, not only is the U.S. profiting from the war by selling weapons to the UAE and Saudi Arabia, who are both partners in the coalition, they also — the inspector general who was forced out from the State Department found, continuing to not take into account the impact on civilians of that deployment of U.S. armaments by the UAE and by Saudi Arabia.
We fast-forward two or three years of this extraordinary, controversial action, and then we start to see — we start coming across these numbers that are starting to drop. The UAE in 2017 gave zero dollars to the U.N. humanitarian assistance program, even though it was an active member of the coalition. Saudi Arabia gave a billion, but only really after the U.N., at the end of last year, had come back and pushed and said Yemen is slipping into famine. So, there was all this work and all this investment and all this, frankly, shaming of the U.S. and the UAE and Saudi Arabia to force them to put — to put right what they had made wrong on the ground in Yemen. And then, in March, Secretary Pompeo, the secretary of state, decides that they are going to suspend aid to those Houthi-controlled areas. And, yes, the Houthis are obstructing aid, and it is extraordinarily egregious, but the Houthis are not the only one. This is a war in which food and starvation have been weaponized by both sides. And that’s when we saw the drop, and that’s when we saw the numbers.
And what really spurred our reporting was that even the U.N. has not been able to access these areas to get a measure, a metric, of whether Yemen truly is in famine. And I don’t know if you know this, Amy, but famine is very much a scientific metric point, where it’s two out of every 10,000 people dying from hunger every day. In Yemen, because so many people can’t afford to even come to the hospital, they are dying at home alone and uncounted. So the world can’t even respond in the ways that it would if we were able to say there was a famine.
It was a very difficult report to pull together, because we were trying to pull this all remotely from London because of the coronavirus and the difficulties of traveling. But I hope that we managed to get across the key message here, which is this is not — this is not a natural disaster. This is a man-made catastrophe in which our governments are complicit.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Nima, you mentioned that a large number of people, the majority of people, in Yemen — and in the report you say so, as well — that the ones who make it to the hospital are the lucky ones. And in this piece, you document the ruinous state, conditions in these hospitals. So, could you talk about what has happened to the currency, the Yemeni rial, that has made not only food and drinking water effectively unaffordable, but also fuel, and how important fuel is to keep these medical facilities going and to keep many people, including children, alive?
NIMA ELBAGIR: So, in addition to the drawdown on their aid contributions, the U.S. has also been backing a five-year-long blockade by the Saudi-led coalition. What that means, effectively, is that most of the commercial vessels that were bringing food, that were bringing goods from the outside world to Yemen, have not been able to dock at that key point in Hodeidah in the south that is so heavily contested. So that means fuel, if you can find it, is incredibly expensive.
And in a way, even more torturously, there is food, but because the currency has spiraled and been devalued so many times and there is so little work available, people cannot afford it. We were in Yemen in January last year, before it even got this bad, and I think one of the most heartbreaking things I’ve witnessed personally is driving through markets that are full of food, and you see the people selling the food, the vegetables, the grains. They themselves are almost skeletal. And the food is rotting, because no one can afford to buy it.
And one of the stories we heard in the hospital, that we didn’t air but we included in our digital write-up, which was genuinely, I think, one of the worst things I’ve ever heard, is that the impact of that blockade has meant that the hospitals don’t have fuel. And now because the U.N. cannot afford to sustain the hospitals and they’re having to focus on just really life-saving measures, they’re not buying them fuel. So, when the electricity goes out, the equipment, the oxygen equipment, the breathing equipment that is keeping the most malnourished and the sickest children alive, that stops. And because there’s no electricity, there are no monitors to raise the alarm that that stopped.
And one doctor who spoke to us, who was — his voice was breaking. And he said that he had found children suffocated to death, because while they’re running around trying to tend to everyone in these overcrowded hospitals, if you turn your back for a moment on a child in a different room and the power goes out, that child dies. And what is so difficult, and yet so extraordinary, is these people continue to come to work. They turn up every day, knowing that they do not have what it takes to save these children, and yet they continue to try.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Nima, can you talk about — the Trump administration has not only cut funding to Yemen, the Trump administration also announced earlier this year that they would cut funding to the World Health Organization. So, could you talk about the work that the World Health Organization does in Yemen, has done in Yemen, and how its work will be impacted by these cuts?
NIMA ELBAGIR: Well, this has absolutely been a double whammy for Yemen, because the World Health Organization runs a lot of the malnutrition clinics, but it also runs all of the programs that are designed to battle transmittable diseases, such as the coronavirus. So, they are the ones paying the doctor and nurses’ salaries, because the Houthi-led government in Sana’a can’t afford to, but they’re also the ones at the frontline of the fight against the coronavirus. It is impossible, it is absolutely impossible, to get any sense of the numbers of the people that have died from the coronavirus, separately to the number of the people that have died from malnutrition.
But because of this — I keep saying “aid drawdown,” and it makes it sound so clinical. It is essentially, because of this strangling of the aid that gets through to the people in Yemen, it has meant that not only are they dealing with malnutrition, because the World Food Program has halved the aid that these people receive, so not only are you getting half rations and it’s reaching half the people, but it means that people are getting food every other month. So you have to plan one meal a day. Parents are not eating so that children can eat. But then, if you have the horrible misfortune of coming down with the coronavirus, there are no facilities that are able to support any kind of — I mean, we don’t have a cure for the coronavirus, but even just to keep people comfortable.
So, one of the things that we did to get a sense of this is we started speaking to gravediggers. And even they don’t have the numbers. All they can tell us is that the actual legitimate, government-licensed cemeteries are full. So now people are bribing gravediggers to find plots of land in places where other people cannot or will not venture, in dangerous parts of these cities, so that at the very least they can try and at least claw back some dignity in burying their loved ones, effectively, rather than leaving them to rot in a mortuary somewhere.
AMY GOODMAN: Nima, I want to go to a briefing that Mark Lowcock, the under-secretary-general for humanitarian affairs, gave on Tuesday to the U.N. Security Council. He called out the oil-rich Gulf states for turning away from the situation in Yemen.
MARK LOWCOCK: Several donors, including the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait, who have a particular responsibility, which they have discharged in recent years, have so far given nothing to this year’s U.N. plan. It is particularly reprehensible to promise money, which gives people hope that help may be on the way, and then to dash those hopes by simply failing to fulfill the promise. More than 9 million people have been affected by deepening cuts to aid programs, including food, water and healthcare. Continuing to hold back money from the humanitarian response now will be a death sentence for many families.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s the U.N. Under-Secretary-General Mark Lowcock. So, Nima Elbagir, if you can talk about — it’s even wrong to say the Gulf states have turned away from Yemen. They have not turned away from Yemen. They are constantly bombing Yemen. In fact, on Tuesday, President Trump stood with the foreign minister of the United Arab Emirates, and, of course, we know Saudi Arabia leads the bombing, bombs provided by the United States. And part of the deal didn’t actually have to do with the Palestinians, that was signed off on at the White House. It had to do with the United States selling the UAE F-35 fighter-bombers. Can you talk about the significance of, once again, these weapons deals to hunger and the devastation of Yemen?
NIMA ELBAGIR: Well, it sends a message, doesn’t it? It sends a message not just in Yemen, but it sends a message around the world, that you can do what you want to do as long as you — as long as you sign up for our key concerns. And a number of U.S. diplomats have described to me conversations that they’ve had with the UAE and with Saudi Arabia, and essentially the subtext of the conversation was, “Well, we have signed — the UAE has signed a peace deal with Israel. And we know that this is a key priority for the Trump administration. So, what more do you want from us?”
What we know about Yemen is that Yemen was a national security risk to the United States. It was home to the most effective franchise of al-Qaeda, al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, who at one point got very far in a plot to put a bomb on a plane and send it to the United States. That was always given as the excuse for the reason why the United States needs to continue to be engaged in Yemen.
What has happened with allowing key U.S. allies, like the UAE and Saudi Arabia, to do what they have done in Yemen is that this hunger and this conflict has allowed not just al-Qaeda, but ISIS to become resurgent in Yemen again. Just this last week, there were a number of pretty effective ISIS and al-Qaeda attacks. The U.S. is measurably less safe because of what their allies have done in Yemen.
But one of the things that is really interesting, that so many of us that are covering foreign affairs are looking at really closely, is that the ICC, the International Criminal Court, has now said that the chief prosecutor, Fatou Bensouda, can begin to look into U.S. war crimes in Afghanistan. And that is precedent-setting, because given what the IG report, the unredacted version, shows about the U.S.'s disregard for civilian casualties perpetrated by their allies with their bombs, there is a real conversation that is beginning about whether the U.S. is opening itself up for further cases of war crime prosecution on Yemen. And it's a pretty incredible case that is being discussed.
And yet, any time that you bring this formally in on record to the State Department or to Trump administration officials, they say, “Well, this is about American manufacturers, about American workers being able to make money out of American bombs being dropped in Yemen.” And what we have seen with the engagement that we have found, not just for this piece, but also for the previous investigations that we’ve done, is, actually — and, actually, I take heart from this — is that so many of our audience, whether it’s in America or around the world, don’t believe that. They don’t believe that money should be made over the deaths of innocent civilians halfway around the world, in a country that was already a humanitarian disaster even before this ill-thought-through intervention.
AMY GOODMAN: Nima, we just have 30 seconds, but we cannot leave without asking you about Sudan, where you are from, and your coverage of the women-led Sudanese uprising, but also Lowcock warning about the first famines of the coronavirus era hitting, among other places, Yemen and your own country of Sudan.
NIMA ELBAGIR: Again, this goes back to foreign policy malfeasance on the part of the Trump administration. This is an administration that continued talks to normalize with a sitting dictator in Sudan while demonstrators were being shot down in the streets. It is incredibly disheartening to see people who have risked so much be let down so badly by the United States. It really is.
AMY GOODMAN: Nima Elbagir, I want to thank you so much for being with us, award-winning senior international correspondent for CNN, based in London, whose Yemen report earlier this week is called “Yemen: A Crisis Made in America.”
When we come back, we go to the Greek island of Lesbos, where 13,000 migrants have been left homeless after a fire destroyed one of Europe’s largest refugee camps. Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-09-17--Headlines for September 17, 2020

Headlines for September 17, 2020

The head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned Wednesday that U.S. residents shouldn ’ t expect to receive a vaccine for the coronavirus until at least mid-2021 , contradicting President Trump ’ s claim that at least 100 million doses could be distributed by the end of 2020 .
Dr. Robert Redfield was speaking at a Senate hearing on the federal government ’ s response to the COVID-19 pandemic .
Dr. Robert Redfield : “ If you ’ re asking me when is it going to be generally available to the American public so we can begin @ @ @ @ @ @ @ back to our regular life , I think we ’ re probably looking at third — late second quarter , third quarter 2021.
” President Trump lashed out at Dr. Redfield ’ s testimony , telling reporters in the White House press briefing room that the top U.S. public health official misspoke .
President Donald Trump : “ I think he made a mistake when he said that .
It ’ s just incorrect information .
And I called him , and he didn ’ t tell me that .
And I think @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Trump also contradicted the CDC director over masks , saying a vaccine would be much more effective than facial coverings at stopping the spread of the coronavirus .
His comment came after Dr. Redfield estimated a potential coronavirus vaccine might only be 70 % effective at generating an immune response — making widespread mask use critical to ending the pandemic in the future .
Dr. Robert Redfield : “ The face masks , these face masks , are the most important , powerful public health tool we have .
And I will continue @ @ @ @ @ @ @ individuals in our country , to embrace these face coverings .
I ’ ve said that if we did it for six , eight , 10 , 12 weeks , we ’ d bring this pandemic under control .
”

The head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned Wednesday that U.S. residents shouldn’t expect to receive a vaccine for the coronavirus until at least mid-2021, contradicting President Trump’s claim that at least 100 million doses could be distributed by the end of 2020. Dr. Robert Redfield was speaking at a Senate hearing on the federal government’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic.
Dr. Robert Redfield: “If you’re asking me when is it going to be generally available to the American public so we can begin to take advantage of vaccine to get back to our regular life, I think we’re probably looking at third — late second quarter, third quarter 2021.”
President Trump lashed out at Dr. Redfield’s testimony, telling reporters in the White House press briefing room that the top U.S. public health official misspoke.
President Donald Trump: “I think he made a mistake when he said that. It’s just incorrect information. And I called him, and he didn’t tell me that. And I think he got the message maybe confused.”
Trump also contradicted the CDC director over masks, saying a vaccine would be much more effective than facial coverings at stopping the spread of the coronavirus. His comment came after Dr. Redfield estimated a potential coronavirus vaccine might only be 70% effective at generating an immune response — making widespread mask use critical to ending the pandemic in the future.


democracynow--2020-09-16--Noura Erakat: Trump's Bahrain-UAE-Israel Deal Won't Advance Palestinian Peace & Will Up Repression

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Juan González .
Israel signed a U.S.-brokered deal to normalize relations with the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain .
They ’ re the first Arab countries to normalize relations with Israel in over a quarter of a century .
President Trump presided over the White House ceremony with the three countries on Tuesday .
AMY GOODMAN : After Trump spoke with reporters in the Oval Office @ @ @ @ @ @ @ crowd of several hundred people on the White House lawn , most of them sitting in close proximity without face masks .
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu joined Trump for the ceremony .
AMY GOODMAN : Neither Netanyahu nor Trump mentioned the Palestinians in their remarks .
Earlier in the day , Palestinian activists in the West Bank and Gaza protested the agreements .
The foreign ministers of Bahrain and the UAE also spoke at the ceremony .
Emirati Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed also spoke .
For more , we ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ human rights attorney , legal scholar , assistant professor at Rutgers University , author of Justice for Some : Law and the Question of Palestine , her new piece for NBC News headlined “ Trump 'peace ' deals for Israel , UAE and Bahrain are shams .
They boost oppression , not amity.
” Welcome back to Democracy Now !
It ’ s great to have you with us , Noura .
If you can talk about — I mean , yesterday the word “ historic ” was repeated over and over again @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as well as Trump and Netanyahu .
You have very different feelings about this agreement .
NOURA ERAKAT : I do .
I think — thank you for having me , Amy .
I think this is really important to — you know , it ’ s a reminder for us that Palestine does not exist in isolation but is part of the Middle East , is part of an entire region .
And what we ’ re seeing in these agreements is basically the U.S. expanding and entrenching its sphere of influence @ @ @ @ @ @ @ its relationship with Israel , the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain .
There has been no war between these countries .
There were no hostilities .
The reason that the Emirates and Bahrain have withheld normalizing their relationship with Israel was merely to withhold a carrot that would otherwise incentivize Israel to make enduring concessions to the Palestinians for their Palestinian national rights .
Given that Israel is the only nuclear superpower in the Middle East , as well as the 11th most powerful military in the world , against a Palestinian people @ @ @ @ @ @ @ these kinds of carrots and incentives are otherwise necessary .
The fact that they have now offered this carrot without any meaningful concession to the Palestinians , even slightly easing the blockade on Gaza , should indicate to us that this is not about advancing any kind of meaningful , enduring peace , but instead about entrenching a geopolitical alliance that would otherwise increase oppression for people of the Middle East , in Bahrain , in the Emirates , in Yemen and in Palestine , who are struggling for freedom and democracy and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are backed by the United States militarily and also offered impunity within international fora , like the Security Council .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : And , Noura , I ’ m wondering — there ’ s so much attention has been placed on these agreements , and yet both the Emirates and Bahrain , to some extent , there might be real questions as to whether they even represent their own — the leaders represent their own populations .
I mean , the UAE , nine out of 10 people who live in the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ They are largely South Asians , Bangladeshis , Pakistanis , Filipinos , who have been brought in as migrant workers and now are the nine-tenths of the population .
Likewise in Bahrain , something like 40 % , 45 % of the population is not — are not natives of the country .
So , these are basically countries that didn ’ t even exist independently when Israel occupied the West Bank .
They gained their independence from England in 1971 .
So , to what degree are they representative of the rest @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : You ’ re rightly highlighting the lack of democratic representation and leadership .
It is why we have seen the Arab street rise up , in what ’ s been known as the Arab uprising , across the Arab world .
And we ’ ve now seen , obviously , the counterrevolutionary trend against them backed by the United States .
In response to those who like to mythologize and pathologize Arabs as not ready for democracy or unable to govern themselves , this actually helps reveal the truth , which is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ themselves — is suppressed because of outside forces like the United States , who are supporting regimes who are more indebted to them , and more accountable to those regimes who are providing it with aid or who are providing it with some sort of military protection , rather than accountability to their base .
The fact that in Bahrain , what we have seen in recent years — and we saw any uprising in 2011 of the population demanding — demanding an elected parliament , demanding a new constitution .
And they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ which they began demanding the fall of the Al Khalifa monarchy .
It was Saudi Arabia and the UAE that supported them in suppressing those democracy protests .
We are now seeing Bahrain continue their trend to suppress the protests by now having the support of the United States to protect them from any kind of international accountability , and on the ground with brute military force .
They have a lot in common with Israel .
And what this should reveal to us is not a peace , but a deal that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in suppressing populations , in suppressing movements for freedom and democracy , and should make more clear to us why Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world are actually sharing in a singular fate .
Palestine does not exist in a vacuum .
It is why Palestinians have understood that the road to Jerusalem or the pathway to freedom flows through other Arab capitals .
And that is as true today as it has been historically .
AMY GOODMAN : This is the UAE foreign minister , Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ UAE was speaking in Arabic with English translation over him .
Bahrain ’ s foreign minister , Abdullatif al-Zayani , spoke in English .
AMY GOODMAN : So , Noura Erakat , President Trump says he thinks at least five other countries are going to sign on .
And there ’ s a lot of speculation about what they will get , Bahrain being Saudi Arabia ’ s toe in the water here , testing the waters .
You have Sudan , and the question is : Would the U.S. take Sudan off @ @ @ @ @ @ @ signing on ?
Morocco , the possibility , some speculation , that the U.S. would be the first in the world to recognize Morocco ’ s sovereignty over Western Sahara .
And , of course , we know the UAE , Jared Kushner also admitting making a deal to give them F-37s [ sic ] , something they haven ’ t been able to get for years from the United States , the U.S. weaponry , the jets .
Your thoughts ?
NOURA ERAKAT : I think you ’ re highlighting what ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as a peace process , instead what ’ s happening with these countries is that they ’ re entering into agreements that are brokered by global superpower in order to advance and achieve their own political interests , whether it be to normalize occupation in the Western Sahara , whether it be to normalize their oppression over their populations , their own populations .
What is clear is that none of it has to do with advancing peace , none of it has to do with Palestinians .
The reason that Arab states @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ve mentioned , is in order to provide an incentive to Israel to recognize and concede to some Palestinian national rights .
Bahrain is now the fourth Arab country to normalize relationships .
It now includes Egypt , Jordan , the UAE and Bahrain .
None of these agreements have ensured a single enduring concession on behalf of Palestinian national rights , not the easing of the blockade , not the end of the occupation , not even the lifting of the apartheid wall .
There have been no concessions .
And so @ @ @ @ @ @ @ deliberately left off out of this picture is the fact that the only peace that is necessary is that between Israel and the Palestinians who they occupy , over whom they maintain an apartheid regime .
There are no hostilities with these other countries , and yet that is being framed as peace for us in order to obscure this reality of state oppression and ongoing violence .
AMY GOODMAN : I meant F-35s , not F-37s , that UAE are going to get .
It ’ s also the anniversary , 1993 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the significance of this , Noura Erakat ?
NOURA ERAKAT : Again , this is an opportunity to revisit that history .
The 1993 Declaration of Principles never promised a Palestinian state .
There was no promise for a two-state solution , and that needs to be clear .
Israel has been a state since 1948 and has been recognized by Palestinians as a state in 1988 and again in 1993 .
There is nothing in the Declaration of Principles that even promises that the outcome of it will lead to an independent @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what has been sold to us .
Instead , this is an autonomy agreement for permanent , derivative sovereignty , whereby Palestinians can live in Bantustans and reservations with the blessing of Israel , but never as a people , never with national independence .
The 1993 Declaration of Principles , Oslo , in my eyes , has been dead since the besiegement of Yasser Arafat in the presidential compound in Ramallah in 2001 and his death in 2002 .
And yet we continue on with the farce of the peace process now @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that lies squarely on the official Palestinian leadership .
This is a moment of accountability .
Unless the Palestinian leadership can look at this record and account for where they failed to take opportunities , what junctures they did not turn on , what moments they did not reassess this failed strategy , there is no moving forward with them in any kind of capacity as representative of the Palestinian people .
If nothing else , this is a moment of reckoning , to understand and to deliberate about a radical rethinking about @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Palestinians , the world over , have been doing that work as they overcome and surmount diplomatic intransigence to advance the Palestinian cause for freedom through campaigns like Boycott , Divestment and Sanctions , which has , in effect , kept the Palestinian struggle alive , created new alliances across the globe .
It ’ s why we see solidarity protests in Pretoria , South Africa .
It ’ s why we see now members of Congress who are standing up to explain that this is not about democracy , peace and freedom @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has been a shadow Palestinian movement in place of the Palestinian official leadership .
And hopefully we ’ ll see more of that as we move along , where the base is mobilizing the top .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : And , Noura , I wanted to ask you — we have just about a minute left .
But what about this claim of the United Arab Emirates that this deal was part of an — the agreement was part of an exchange for Israel suspending plans to annex large swaths of the occupied @ @ @ @ @ @ @ reaction to that claim ?
NOURA ERAKAT : I think that ’ s a joke .
I think that ’ s an absolute joke .
It was because of the international reaction to Israel ’ s annexation plans that they did not find it in their interest .
We also saw a tremendous amount of opposition from U.S. Congress .
And , in fact , for Israel , this , it ’ s more of the same , because they already exercise de facto annexation over those lands .
What would have advanced @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the fact that Netanyahu would have been playing to his right-wing base that he was able to secure annexation during his tenure .
But the reality on the ground isn ’ t changed .
This doesn ’ t avert the takeover of those lands .
If the UAE actually wanted to make a meaningful concession for Palestinians , it would have been withdrawal of Israeli troops from the Jordan Valley , at the very least , which is only 30 % of the West Bank , let alone withdrawal from the entire Occupied @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the right of return for Palestinian refugees .
This leaves so much for want .
And all of it is doublespeak and mirrors and shadows , when they say that there are any meaningful concessions .
We ’ ll probably see Israel advance their interests and actually enact de jure annexation notwithstanding this agreement .
AMY GOODMAN : Noura Erakat , we want to thank you so much for being with us , Palestinian human rights attorney and legal scholar .
We ’ ll link to her piece , “ Trump 'peace ' @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are shams.
” I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Juan González .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.
Israel signed a U.S.-brokered deal to normalize relations with the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain. They’re the first Arab countries to normalize relations with Israel in over a quarter of a century. President Trump presided over the White House ceremony with the three countries on Tuesday.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: This is peace in the Middle East without blood all over the sand. I say it. Right now it’s been blood all over the sand for — for decades and decades and decades. That’s all they do, is they fight and kill people, and nobody gets anything.
AMY GOODMAN: After Trump spoke with reporters in the Oval Office alongside Netanyahu, he spoke to a crowd of several hundred people on the White House lawn, most of them sitting in close proximity without face masks. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu joined Trump for the ceremony.
PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: This day is a pivot of history. It heralds a new dawn of peace. For thousands of years, the Jewish people have prayed for peace. For decades, the Jewish state has prayed for peace. And this is why today we are filled with such profound gratitude.
AMY GOODMAN: Neither Netanyahu nor Trump mentioned the Palestinians in their remarks. Earlier in the day, Palestinian activists in the West Bank and Gaza protested the agreements. The foreign ministers of Bahrain and the UAE also spoke at the ceremony. Emirati Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed also spoke.
For more, we’re joined by Noura Erakat, Palestinian human rights attorney, legal scholar, assistant professor at Rutgers University, author of Justice for Some: Law and the Question of Palestine, her new piece for NBC News headlined “Trump 'peace' deals for Israel, UAE and Bahrain are shams. They boost oppression, not amity.”
Welcome back to Democracy Now! It’s great to have you with us, Noura. If you can talk about — I mean, yesterday the word “historic” was repeated over and over again by the Gulf state foreign ministers, as well as Trump and Netanyahu. You have very different feelings about this agreement.
NOURA ERAKAT: I do. I think — thank you for having me, Amy. I think this is really important to — you know, it’s a reminder for us that Palestine does not exist in isolation but is part of the Middle East, is part of an entire region. And what we’re seeing in these agreements is basically the U.S. expanding and entrenching its sphere of influence within the Middle East by aligning explicitly its relationship with Israel, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain.
There has been no war between these countries. There were no hostilities. The reason that the Emirates and Bahrain have withheld normalizing their relationship with Israel was merely to withhold a carrot that would otherwise incentivize Israel to make enduring concessions to the Palestinians for their Palestinian national rights. Given that Israel is the only nuclear superpower in the Middle East, as well as the 11th most powerful military in the world, against a Palestinian people without an army or an airport, these kinds of carrots and incentives are otherwise necessary.
The fact that they have now offered this carrot without any meaningful concession to the Palestinians, even slightly easing the blockade on Gaza, should indicate to us that this is not about advancing any kind of meaningful, enduring peace, but instead about entrenching a geopolitical alliance that would otherwise increase oppression for people of the Middle East, in Bahrain, in the Emirates, in Yemen and in Palestine, who are struggling for freedom and democracy and are now facing off against powers who are backed by the United States militarily and also offered impunity within international fora, like the Security Council.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Noura, I’m wondering — there’s so much attention has been placed on these agreements, and yet both the Emirates and Bahrain, to some extent, there might be real questions as to whether they even represent their own — the leaders represent their own populations. I mean, the UAE, nine out of 10 people who live in the UAE aren’t even Emiratis. They are largely South Asians, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Filipinos, who have been brought in as migrant workers and now are the nine-tenths of the population. Likewise in Bahrain, something like 40%, 45% of the population is not — are not natives of the country. So, these are basically countries that didn’t even exist independently when Israel occupied the West Bank. They gained their independence from England in 1971. So, to what degree are they representative of the rest of the Arab world?
NOURA ERAKAT: You’re rightly highlighting the lack of democratic representation and leadership. It is why we have seen the Arab street rise up, in what’s been known as the Arab uprising, across the Arab world. And we’ve now seen, obviously, the counterrevolutionary trend against them backed by the United States.
In response to those who like to mythologize and pathologize Arabs as not ready for democracy or unable to govern themselves, this actually helps reveal the truth, which is that democracy — people, people governing themselves — is suppressed because of outside forces like the United States, who are supporting regimes who are more indebted to them, and more accountable to those regimes who are providing it with aid or who are providing it with some sort of military protection, rather than accountability to their base.
The fact that in Bahrain, what we have seen in recent years — and we saw any uprising in 2011 of the population demanding — demanding an elected parliament, demanding a new constitution. And they were met with lethal force, after which they began demanding the fall of the Al Khalifa monarchy. It was Saudi Arabia and the UAE that supported them in suppressing those democracy protests. We are now seeing Bahrain continue their trend to suppress the protests by now having the support of the United States to protect them from any kind of international accountability, and on the ground with brute military force. They have a lot in common with Israel.
And what this should reveal to us is not a peace, but a deal that brings together these forces who are aligned in suppressing populations, in suppressing movements for freedom and democracy, and should make more clear to us why Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world are actually sharing in a singular fate. Palestine does not exist in a vacuum. It is why Palestinians have understood that the road to Jerusalem or the pathway to freedom flows through other Arab capitals. And that is as true today as it has been historically.
AMY GOODMAN: This is the UAE foreign minister, Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed.
SHEIKH ABDULLAH BIN ZAYED: [translated] I stand here today to extend a hand of peace and receive a hand of peace. In our faith, we say, “Oh, God, you are peace, and from you comes peace.” The search for peace is an innate principle, yet principles are effectively realized when they are transformed into action. Today we are already witnessing a change in the heart of the Middle East, a change that will send hope around the world.
AMY GOODMAN: The foreign minister of UAE was speaking in Arabic with English translation over him. Bahrain’s foreign minister, Abdullatif al-Zayani, spoke in English.
ABDULLATIF AL-ZAYANI: Today’s agreement is an important first step. And it is now incumbent on us to work urgently and actively to bring about the lasting peace and security our peoples deserve. A just, comprehensive and enduring two-state solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict will be the foundation, the bedrock of such peace.
AMY GOODMAN: So, Noura Erakat, President Trump says he thinks at least five other countries are going to sign on. And there’s a lot of speculation about what they will get, Bahrain being Saudi Arabia’s toe in the water here, testing the waters. You have Sudan, and the question is: Would the U.S. take Sudan off the terror list in exchange for Sudan signing on? Morocco, the possibility, some speculation, that the U.S. would be the first in the world to recognize Morocco’s sovereignty over Western Sahara. And, of course, we know the UAE, Jared Kushner also admitting making a deal to give them F-37s [sic], something they haven’t been able to get for years from the United States, the U.S. weaponry, the jets. Your thoughts?
NOURA ERAKAT: I think you’re highlighting what’s true. Instead of discussing this as a peace process, instead what’s happening with these countries is that they’re entering into agreements that are brokered by global superpower in order to advance and achieve their own political interests, whether it be to normalize occupation in the Western Sahara, whether it be to normalize their oppression over their populations, their own populations.
What is clear is that none of it has to do with advancing peace, none of it has to do with Palestinians. The reason that Arab states have withheld normalization, as I’ve mentioned, is in order to provide an incentive to Israel to recognize and concede to some Palestinian national rights. Bahrain is now the fourth Arab country to normalize relationships. It now includes Egypt, Jordan, the UAE and Bahrain. None of these agreements have ensured a single enduring concession on behalf of Palestinian national rights, not the easing of the blockade, not the end of the occupation, not even the lifting of the apartheid wall. There have been no concessions.
And so, what’s been dutifully and deliberately left off out of this picture is the fact that the only peace that is necessary is that between Israel and the Palestinians who they occupy, over whom they maintain an apartheid regime. There are no hostilities with these other countries, and yet that is being framed as peace for us in order to obscure this reality of state oppression and ongoing violence.
AMY GOODMAN: I meant F-35s, not F-37s, that UAE are going to get. It’s also the anniversary, 1993, of the Oslo Accords. And the significance of this, Noura Erakat?
NOURA ERAKAT: Again, this is an opportunity to revisit that history. The 1993 Declaration of Principles never promised a Palestinian state. There was no promise for a two-state solution, and that needs to be clear. Israel has been a state since 1948 and has been recognized by Palestinians as a state in 1988 and again in 1993. There is nothing in the Declaration of Principles that even promises that the outcome of it will lead to an independent Palestinian state, and yet that is what has been sold to us. Instead, this is an autonomy agreement for permanent, derivative sovereignty, whereby Palestinians can live in Bantustans and reservations with the blessing of Israel, but never as a people, never with national independence. The 1993 Declaration of Principles, Oslo, in my eyes, has been dead since the besiegement of Yasser Arafat in the presidential compound in Ramallah in 2001 and his death in 2002. And yet we continue on with the farce of the peace process now into 2020.
And the responsibility for that lies squarely on the official Palestinian leadership. This is a moment of accountability. Unless the Palestinian leadership can look at this record and account for where they failed to take opportunities, what junctures they did not turn on, what moments they did not reassess this failed strategy, there is no moving forward with them in any kind of capacity as representative of the Palestinian people. If nothing else, this is a moment of reckoning, to understand and to deliberate about a radical rethinking about the Palestinian movement for freedom.
And Palestinians, the world over, have been doing that work as they overcome and surmount diplomatic intransigence to advance the Palestinian cause for freedom through campaigns like Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, which has, in effect, kept the Palestinian struggle alive, created new alliances across the globe. It’s why we see solidarity protests in Pretoria, South Africa. It’s why we see now members of Congress who are standing up to explain that this is not about democracy, peace and freedom. That’s precisely because there has been a shadow Palestinian movement in place of the Palestinian official leadership. And hopefully we’ll see more of that as we move along, where the base is mobilizing the top.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Noura, I wanted to ask you — we have just about a minute left. But what about this claim of the United Arab Emirates that this deal was part of an — the agreement was part of an exchange for Israel suspending plans to annex large swaths of the occupied West Bank? What’s your reaction to that claim?
NOURA ERAKAT: I think that’s a joke. I think that’s an absolute joke. It was because of the international reaction to Israel’s annexation plans that they did not find it in their interest. We also saw a tremendous amount of opposition from U.S. Congress. And, in fact, for Israel, this, it’s more of the same, because they already exercise de facto annexation over those lands. What would have advanced and would have changed for Israelis is the fact that Netanyahu would have been playing to his right-wing base that he was able to secure annexation during his tenure.
But the reality on the ground isn’t changed. This doesn’t avert the takeover of those lands. If the UAE actually wanted to make a meaningful concession for Palestinians, it would have been withdrawal of Israeli troops from the Jordan Valley, at the very least, which is only 30% of the West Bank, let alone withdrawal from the entire Occupied Territories, and, in fact, the right of return for Palestinian refugees. This leaves so much for want. And all of it is doublespeak and mirrors and shadows, when they say that there are any meaningful concessions. We’ll probably see Israel advance their interests and actually enact de jure annexation notwithstanding this agreement.
AMY GOODMAN: Noura Erakat, we want to thank you so much for being with us, Palestinian human rights attorney and legal scholar. We’ll link to her piece, “Trump 'peace' deals for Israel, UAE and Bahrain are shams.” I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.


democracynow--2020-09-16--Mychal Denzel Smith on Breonna Taylor, Defunding Police, Systemic Racism & His Trump-Era Depression

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Juan González .
We ’ re joined now by Mychal Denzel Smith to discuss the historic settlement the city of Louisville has just reached with Breonna Taylor ’ s family , the upcoming presidential election and far more .
Mychal Denzel Smith is a fellow at Type Media Center , author of Invisible Man , Got the Whole World Watching : A Young @ @ @ @ @ @ @ new book , just released this week , Stakes Is High : Life After the American Dream .
One of its essays was adapted for an op-ed this week in The New York Times headlined “ A Biden Win Won ’ t Cure My Trump-Era Depression.
” Mychal Denzel Smith , welcome back to Democracy Now !
It ’ s great to have you with us .
Let ’ s start with the Breonna Taylor settlement in Louisville .
We just heard Benjamin Crump , as well as Breonna ’ s mother and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ $ 12 million settlement to the family , and police reform in Louisville , though the police officers who killed Breonna Taylor have not been arrested .
Your response ?
MYCHAL DENZEL SMITH : I hope that this settlement brings Breonna Taylor ’ s family some semblance of peace .
I hope that this helps in mitigating their pain , in helping them heal together .
But I think we have to dispense with the notion that there is justice for Breonna Taylor at this point .
There is no justice in her @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in arresting and indicting and convicting the officers who killed her , because what we ’ re doing then is relying on a system that is built to inscribe injustice in our society to deliver justice , that the idea that prison would be a just result .
No , what the system can do right now is enact a sense of revenge by inflicting harm on the officers who killed Breonna Taylor .
And , look , her family is well within their rights to want that right now , and I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I can say , or what I want the rest of us to think through , is the idea that what the community needs in response to the killing of Breonna Taylor , what the nation needs in the response to killing of Breonna Taylor , is the arrest of these individual officers .
The only way to prevent another instance of the killing that — the situation that took Breonna Taylor ’ s life is to defund , dismantle police departments across the nation , across the world , abolishing police , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ setting up a new organizing principle for our society that wouldn ’ t require policing in the first place .
You know , what we ’ re looking at there — I mean , the settlement is huge , but the idea of public money subsidizing Black death is nothing new .
This is routine .
And they ’ re willing to pay this amount of money in order to continue the system .
You know , police are going to kill again over a thousand people every year , and they ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ million for each of those if that means that they can go about their business continuing to do that .
What I think we have to understand is that it ’ s a structural problem .
And some of these reforms that they ’ ve offered here in response , I mean , it ’ s great that they ’ re thinking in that way , that in addition to the monetary settlement , they ’ re asking for things to change within the police department .
But the things that they ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the things — or , the things that they ’ ve won here in terms of police officers needing to be parts of their community and live in the communities that they ’ re policing , well , that just means that police are going to kill their neighbors now .
The idea that we need more oversight from higher-ups within the police departments , what do we think is going to happen ?
Do we think that police chiefs have more compassion , that police chiefs have more wisdom to pass down @ @ @ @ @ @ @ their communities ?
This isn ’ t — these aren ’ t things that are going to change the fundamental nature of policing or eliminate the reasons for policing in the first place .
So , I think we just have to understand that there is no — there ’ s no justice here .
Justice needs to be conceptualized as something that is more proactive , that is about providing people with the things that they need for a sustainable life while they ’ re here , and that we can ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for Black death .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : Mychal Denzel Smith , I wanted to ask you — Benjamin Crump , at the press conference yesterday , put a lot of stress on this whole issue of reforms of the so-called no-knock warrants .
These were actually products of the 1980s Reagan “ war on drugs.
” In the early 1980s , there were about 1,500 no-knock warrants by law enforcement across the country .
Today there are 60,000 to 70,000 a year .
Do you think that this will have any significant impact @ @ @ @ @ @ @ no constitutional rights for people who are accused of or are suspected of any kind of illegal activity , that police can just break down their door ?
MYCHAL DENZEL SMITH : Yeah .
I mean , James Baldwin was writing about no-knock warrants in the ’ 60s , and Gil Scott-Heron , again in the ’ 70s , talking about these no-knock warrants , the ability of police to simply go into any home that they please , without cause , break down doors and arrest people , shoot people .
I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ warrant , in and of itself , being something that we require in these instances points to the fact that people have no rights to begin with , right ?
Because even if you require the warrant , police find ways around that or develop systems that then don ’ t require them to have warrants in the first place .
There ’ s no warrant required or had — there was no warrant required for stop-and-frisk here in New York City , right ?
But we found justifications — or , the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ implement that program .
So , again , I think , you know , there ’ s the specifics , right ?
There ’ s the things that very clearly are harmful , and no-knock warrants are something that we absolutely have to address here , but that ’ s part of a structural problem in which what police are sent out to do in these instances is to enforce these laws that are meant to subjugate segments of the population .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : And in terms of the role that the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and the activists in Kentucky specifically , in terms of forcing — we ’ re increasingly seeing police departments in cities have to respond — the Rochester situation where the mayor fires the police chief this week .
What is your assessment of the impact of the movement on trying to get some structural changes ?
MYCHAL DENZEL SMITH : There won ’ t be any structural changes without movement .
And I think we have to acknowledge that a huge reason why these changes are taking place in the first place @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that people are in the streets , it ’ s not just that people are demanding these things , it ’ s that they ’ ve taken radical action .
They have taken militant action .
They ’ ve directly confronted state power .
If nothing happens — the protest movement doesn ’ t grow to the size that it did even this past summer , if it weren ’ t for the fact that , in the beginning of this , that police station was burned in Minneapolis — right ?
— @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in New York , in Atlanta , in Louisville .
We have to understand that the property destruction as a tactic was used , and it set the nation on notice that something has to change now .
And so , the thing that I — you know , that gives me hope is that these things are possible .
But what makes me question — what I have questions around is : How much more of that is going to be necessary , if what we ’ ve won in the aftermath @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , is these very milquetoast and middle-of-the-road reforms ?
AMY GOODMAN : Mychal , your op-ed piece in The New York Times that just appeared , “ A Biden Win Won ’ t Cure My Trump-Era Depression , ” adapted from your new book , Stakes Is High , you begin by talking about the killing of your 12-year-old — when you were 12 years old , the killing of your cousin and the effect it has on the family , on the community .
Share that personal story with us , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ SMITH : Well , I think , you know , the acknowledgment there was that there ’ s community violence that does impact us , and on a deeply emotional level .
And as a 12-year-old , losing a big cousin of mine , who was 17 at the time , had an impact that I didn ’ t acknowledge at that time , but it did set off a chain of events in which I experienced depression every year .
And so , I was diagnosed with this , an anxiety disorder @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the piece is about the ways in which , like , the outside forces contribute to that level of depression .
It ’ s something that I wouldn ’ t have — even as someone who has lived with depression , wouldn ’ t have acknowledged as depression during the past four years of the Trump era , until very late in this time , because I wasn ’ t acknowledging that it had any impact on me personally .
But what I ’ m pointing to in that piece is that many @ @ @ @ @ @ @ era .
And I think we have to note that a part of it is coming off of eight years of the first Black presidency .
And for the limitations of it — and there were many — it was an era in which people felt like there was some type of avenue toward progress .
This , the election of Donald Trump , is a retrenchment of the forces of white supremacist , heteropatriarchal capitalism that are grinding people to an early death .
During an era in which we have very @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , as we see the fires raging out in California , in the Pacific Northwest , and the hurricanes gathering in the Gulf Coast , during a global pandemic of an airborne illness , we think we just don ’ t have very much time to address this .
And four years of a Trump presidency has only done anything to accelerate the climate disaster here .
So , what we ’ re facing is an idea that we ’ re depressed , and I am depressed , because it seems so large @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and that the response from the Democratic Party , the party that ’ s supposed to be in opposition to everything that is happening now , was to nominate for president Joe Biden , who has a nearly 50-year history of public service in which we can acknowledge or identify that he has mostly been a conservative ideologue , that he has staked out positions to the right of the Republican Party in many instances .
And that doesn ’ t give me much room to feel like we are shifting in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that we need to address the large problems that we ’ re facing , the existential crisis that we are facing globally .
So , it ’ s to say , you know , yes , Donald Trump must be ousted from office , and that is whether or not he wins the election or not , whether or not he cheats his way toward winning the election or wins it legitimately or he is voted out of office .
In any of these instances , there are things that are going to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ than Donald Trump , that are bigger than Joe Biden .
We have to — there has to be collective movement toward facing the large-scale crises that we are up against now .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : I wanted to get clear something .
In your essay , you do talk about this — what many psychologists have said , that there is actually an increasing mental health problem in the United States since Trump became president .
Some even name it , as you say in your article , “ Trump anxiety disorder.
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ at the same time , that you don ’ t think that there will be any substantial or measurable difference in terms of if Biden is successful in coming to office ?
MYCHAL DENZEL SMITH : Well , the problem is that there could be — there will be some movement , of course .
Like , there will be jubilation in certain segments of America if Joe Biden is elected president , absolutely .
But what I ’ m saying is that after Joe Biden is elected president in that scenario , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ going to be in front of us .
And what Joe Biden has offered thus far is not a transformative enough agenda to be able to face those issues .
And so , what I ’ m saying is that , yeah , like , the Trump part of that may be settled , but the rest of it , the things that are fundamental to the nature of American empire , the things that are fundamental to the nature of American capitalism , white supremacy , all of those institutions , the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , that keeps oppression in place , those things are still there and that we haven ’ t then elected a president that will be willing to confront those things .
And so , the depression part of that could still sink in , because , again , what we ’ re up against , what we ’ re facing — I mean , these fires are not going to stop .
Like , the things that we ’ re up against are just not going to abate just because Joe Biden has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , you know , we have to acknowledge that , yes , the Trump part of it could be settled by November , but the rest of it is going to — could potentially cause another depression .
AMY GOODMAN : Well , Mychal Denzel Smith , we want to thank you for being with us .
We ’ re going to do Part 2 of our conversation after the show and post it online at democracynow.org .
Mychal is Type Media Center fellow , author of Invisible Man , Got the Whole @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s Education .
His new book , just released , Stakes Is High : Life After the American Dream .
We ’ ll link to several of your essays , one in The Atlantic and the other in The New York Times , its headline , “ A Biden Win Won ’ t Cure My Trump-Era Depression.
” This is Democracy Now !
When we come back , the U.S.-brokered Bahrain-UAE-Israel deal that was signed at the White House yesterday .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.
We’re joined now by Mychal Denzel Smith to discuss the historic settlement the city of Louisville has just reached with Breonna Taylor’s family, the upcoming presidential election and far more. Mychal Denzel Smith is a fellow at Type Media Center, author of Invisible Man, Got the Whole World Watching: A Young Black Man’s Education and his new book, just released this week, Stakes Is High: Life After the American Dream. One of its essays was adapted for an op-ed this week in The New York Times headlined “A Biden Win Won’t Cure My Trump-Era Depression.”
Mychal Denzel Smith, welcome back to Democracy Now! It’s great to have you with us. Let’s start with the Breonna Taylor settlement in Louisville. We just heard Benjamin Crump, as well as Breonna’s mother and Tamika Mallory, talking about this record $12 million settlement to the family, and police reform in Louisville, though the police officers who killed Breonna Taylor have not been arrested. Your response?
MYCHAL DENZEL SMITH: I hope that this settlement brings Breonna Taylor’s family some semblance of peace. I hope that this helps in mitigating their pain, in helping them heal together. But I think we have to dispense with the notion that there is justice for Breonna Taylor at this point. There is no justice in her lost life. There is no justice in arresting and indicting and convicting the officers who killed her, because what we’re doing then is relying on a system that is built to inscribe injustice in our society to deliver justice, that the idea that prison would be a just result. No, what the system can do right now is enact a sense of revenge by inflicting harm on the officers who killed Breonna Taylor.
And, look, her family is well within their rights to want that right now, and I will never question that. But what I can say, or what I want the rest of us to think through, is the idea that what the community needs in response to the killing of Breonna Taylor, what the nation needs in the response to killing of Breonna Taylor, is the arrest of these individual officers. The only way to prevent another instance of the killing that — the situation that took Breonna Taylor’s life is to defund, dismantle police departments across the nation, across the world, abolishing police, abolishing the very idea of policing, setting up a new organizing principle for our society that wouldn’t require policing in the first place.
You know, what we’re looking at there — I mean, the settlement is huge, but the idea of public money subsidizing Black death is nothing new. This is routine. And they’re willing to pay this amount of money in order to continue the system. You know, police are going to kill again over a thousand people every year, and they’d be willing to pay $12 million for each of those if that means that they can go about their business continuing to do that.
What I think we have to understand is that it’s a structural problem. And some of these reforms that they’ve offered here in response, I mean, it’s great that they’re thinking in that way, that in addition to the monetary settlement, they’re asking for things to change within the police department. But the things that they’ve asked for, I mean, the things — or, the things that they’ve won here in terms of police officers needing to be parts of their community and live in the communities that they’re policing, well, that just means that police are going to kill their neighbors now. The idea that we need more oversight from higher-ups within the police departments, what do we think is going to happen? Do we think that police chiefs have more compassion, that police chiefs have more wisdom to pass down or more ideas around eliminating violence from their communities? This isn’t — these aren’t things that are going to change the fundamental nature of policing or eliminate the reasons for policing in the first place.
So, I think we just have to understand that there is no — there’s no justice here. Justice needs to be conceptualized as something that is more proactive, that is about providing people with the things that they need for a sustainable life while they’re here, and that we can’t think that justice means monetary compensation for Black death.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Mychal Denzel Smith, I wanted to ask you — Benjamin Crump, at the press conference yesterday, put a lot of stress on this whole issue of reforms of the so-called no-knock warrants. These were actually products of the 1980s Reagan “war on drugs.” In the early 1980s, there were about 1,500 no-knock warrants by law enforcement across the country. Today there are 60,000 to 70,000 a year. Do you think that this will have any significant impact, this whole idea that there are no constitutional rights for people who are accused of or are suspected of any kind of illegal activity, that police can just break down their door?
MYCHAL DENZEL SMITH: Yeah. I mean, James Baldwin was writing about no-knock warrants in the ’60s, and Gil Scott-Heron, again in the ’70s, talking about these no-knock warrants, the ability of police to simply go into any home that they please, without cause, break down doors and arrest people, shoot people.
I mean, but the idea that the warrant, in and of itself, being something that we require in these instances points to the fact that people have no rights to begin with, right? Because even if you require the warrant, police find ways around that or develop systems that then don’t require them to have warrants in the first place. There’s no warrant required or had — there was no warrant required for stop-and-frisk here in New York City, right? But we found justifications — or, the city found justifications for being able to implement that program.
So, again, I think, you know, there’s the specifics, right? There’s the things that very clearly are harmful, and no-knock warrants are something that we absolutely have to address here, but that’s part of a structural problem in which what police are sent out to do in these instances is to enforce these laws that are meant to subjugate segments of the population.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And in terms of the role that the protest movement across the country has had, and the activists in Kentucky specifically, in terms of forcing — we’re increasingly seeing police departments in cities have to respond — the Rochester situation where the mayor fires the police chief this week. What is your assessment of the impact of the movement on trying to get some structural changes?
MYCHAL DENZEL SMITH: There won’t be any structural changes without movement. And I think we have to acknowledge that a huge reason why these changes are taking place in the first place is that it’s not just that people are in the streets, it’s not just that people are demanding these things, it’s that they’ve taken radical action. They have taken militant action. They’ve directly confronted state power.
If nothing happens — the protest movement doesn’t grow to the size that it did even this past summer, if it weren’t for the fact that, in the beginning of this, that police station was burned in Minneapolis — right? — that police cars were set on fire in New York, in Atlanta, in Louisville. We have to understand that the property destruction as a tactic was used, and it set the nation on notice that something has to change now.
And so, the thing that I — you know, that gives me hope is that these things are possible. But what makes me question — what I have questions around is: How much more of that is going to be necessary, if what we’ve won in the aftermath of that, of such dramatic action, is these very milquetoast and middle-of-the-road reforms?
AMY GOODMAN: Mychal, your op-ed piece in The New York Times that just appeared, “A Biden Win Won’t Cure My Trump-Era Depression,” adapted from your new book, Stakes Is High, you begin by talking about the killing of your 12-year-old — when you were 12 years old, the killing of your cousin and the effect it has on the family, on the community. Share that personal story with us, and then take it bigger.
MYCHAL DENZEL SMITH: Well, I think, you know, the acknowledgment there was that there’s community violence that does impact us, and on a deeply emotional level. And as a 12-year-old, losing a big cousin of mine, who was 17 at the time, had an impact that I didn’t acknowledge at that time, but it did set off a chain of events in which I experienced depression every year. And so, I was diagnosed with this, an anxiety disorder, later in my life.
But the piece is about the ways in which, like, the outside forces contribute to that level of depression. It’s something that I wouldn’t have — even as someone who has lived with depression, wouldn’t have acknowledged as depression during the past four years of the Trump era, until very late in this time, because I wasn’t acknowledging that it had any impact on me personally. But what I’m pointing to in that piece is that many people are feeling the anxiety of this era.
And I think we have to note that a part of it is coming off of eight years of the first Black presidency. And for the limitations of it — and there were many — it was an era in which people felt like there was some type of avenue toward progress. This, the election of Donald Trump, is a retrenchment of the forces of white supremacist, heteropatriarchal capitalism that are grinding people to an early death.
During an era in which we have very little time to face the climate apocalypse, as we see the fires raging out in California, in the Pacific Northwest, and the hurricanes gathering in the Gulf Coast, during a global pandemic of an airborne illness, we think we just don’t have very much time to address this. And four years of a Trump presidency has only done anything to accelerate the climate disaster here.
So, what we’re facing is an idea that we’re depressed, and I am depressed, because it seems so large, it seems too big to handle, and that the response from the Democratic Party, the party that’s supposed to be in opposition to everything that is happening now, was to nominate for president Joe Biden, who has a nearly 50-year history of public service in which we can acknowledge or identify that he has mostly been a conservative ideologue, that he has staked out positions to the right of the Republican Party in many instances. And that doesn’t give me much room to feel like we are shifting in any significant way to the transformative things that we need to address the large problems that we’re facing, the existential crisis that we are facing globally.
So, it’s to say, you know, yes, Donald Trump must be ousted from office, and that is whether or not he wins the election or not, whether or not he cheats his way toward winning the election or wins it legitimately or he is voted out of office. In any of these instances, there are things that are going to have to be done that are bigger than Donald Trump, that are bigger than Joe Biden. We have to — there has to be collective movement toward facing the large-scale crises that we are up against now.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I wanted to get clear something. In your essay, you do talk about this — what many psychologists have said, that there is actually an increasing mental health problem in the United States since Trump became president. Some even name it, as you say in your article, “Trump anxiety disorder.” But you’re saying, at the same time, that you don’t think that there will be any substantial or measurable difference in terms of if Biden is successful in coming to office?
MYCHAL DENZEL SMITH: Well, the problem is that there could be — there will be some movement, of course. Like, there will be jubilation in certain segments of America if Joe Biden is elected president, absolutely. But what I’m saying is that after Joe Biden is elected president in that scenario, the problems that we face are still going to be in front of us. And what Joe Biden has offered thus far is not a transformative enough agenda to be able to face those issues.
And so, what I’m saying is that, yeah, like, the Trump part of that may be settled, but the rest of it, the things that are fundamental to the nature of American empire, the things that are fundamental to the nature of American capitalism, white supremacy, all of those institutions, the structural problems, the ideology undergirding that, that keeps oppression in place, those things are still there and that we haven’t then elected a president that will be willing to confront those things.
And so, the depression part of that could still sink in, because, again, what we’re up against, what we’re facing — I mean, these fires are not going to stop. Like, the things that we’re up against are just not going to abate just because Joe Biden has been elected president. And I think, you know, we have to acknowledge that, yes, the Trump part of it could be settled by November, but the rest of it is going to — could potentially cause another depression.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Mychal Denzel Smith, we want to thank you for being with us. We’re going to do Part 2 of our conversation after the show and post it online at democracynow.org. Mychal is Type Media Center fellow, author of Invisible Man, Got the Whole World Watching: A Young Black Man’s Education. His new book, just released, Stakes Is High: Life After the American Dream. We’ll link to several of your essays, one in The Atlantic and the other in The New York Times, its headline, “A Biden Win Won’t Cure My Trump-Era Depression.”
This is Democracy Now! When we come back, the U.S.-brokered Bahrain-UAE-Israel deal that was signed at the White House yesterday. Stay with us.