democracynow--2020-10-08--The Greatest Failure in Presidential History: Kamala Harris Slams Trump/Pence's Handling of COVID-19

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : Vice President Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris met in Salt Lake City , Utah , Wednesday night for the only vice-presidential debate of the campaign season .
Separated by two plexiglass shields , they sparred on the climate crisis , the Supreme Court , the economy , institutional racism , the pandemic and other issues .
The debate began with Kamala Harris slamming President Trump ’ s administration ’ s handling of the COVID-19 pandemic .
AMY GOODMAN : We begin @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Spencer , director of global health in emergency medicine at Columbia University Medical Center .
In 2014 , he contracted Ebola while fighting its outbreak in Africa , is now emergency room doctor here in New York City , where he ’ s been treating coronavirus patients .
Before we get your response to the debate that we just heard , Dr. Spencer , we wanted to get your response to the latest breaking news .
The infected president of the United States — right ?
— President Trump has COVID-19 — has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with the Commission on Presidential Debates ’ decision to have a virtual second presidential debate next week because of the deep concern of how many more people would be exposed to President Trump , who has COVID .
Can you respond to what he is saying , not to mention what has happened throughout this weekend , President Trump in the White House breaking isolation , going to the Oval Office , talking about the miracle cure of this Regeneron cocktail and saying that COVID is a gift of God ?
DR. CRAIG @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I don ’ t think this is a gift from God for anybody .
We have , as you ’ ve already pointed out , nearly 212,000 people that have died .
We have increasing cases all across the country .
There will be many more deaths from this .
I don ’ t think this is a gift to anyone .
Regarding having a presidential debate in person , I certainly wouldn ’ t stand on stage with someone who was recently infected with coronavirus .
There are guidelines for when someone @ @ @ @ @ @ @ but we would need to have some transparency from this administration on the president ’ s health and how he is testing , what symptoms he ’ s actually having .
We haven ’ t received that to date .
I think what we saw this weekend when the president was hospitalized , we were told one thing , and then , the next day , told something different .
We ’ re getting more information from short video clips than we are actually from the president ’ s doctor .
So , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ comfortable , and I certainly wouldn ’ t feel comfortable for myself , for Vice President Biden or for really anyone else to be up on that debate stage with President Trump , without knowing some really key details .
AMY GOODMAN : And how he ’ s behaved this weekend , from being in that hermetically sealed car to wave to his supporters , with Secret Service having to be around him in that car , as well , to breaking isolation in the White House ?
DR. CRAIG SPENCER : Absolutely @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s clear this is a — this is something that we ’ ve seen since really early on , right ?
This president and this administration have flouted , really , all well-known public health principles about how you prevent this disease , about how you prevent its spread .
They have undermined science , again , since day one .
That ’ s the reason that we have the world ’ s worst outbreak of COVID , the reason that we have the most deaths of any country in the world @ @ @ @ @ @ @ quite frankly and unfortunately , the president to make the right decisions , not only about his health , but about the health of all the other Americans and those he may expose .
The antics from this weekend , the joyride , completely unnecessary .
Maybe for political theater it was helpful , but from a public health perspective it was just disastrous .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Well , Dr. Spencer , obviously , now Trump has said , as you just talked about earlier , that he has refused the proposal @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be virtual .
But many people raised concerns also about last night ’ s debate , given some uncertainty about whether Vice President Pence may have been exposed to the virus .
And several people pointed out that the plexiglass that they put up between Kamala Harris and Vice President Pence would do virtually nothing to prevent airborne transmission .
Could you respond to that ?
And what kinds of measures would need to be taken to prevent airborne transmission in a context like last night ?
DR. CRAIG SPENCER : That ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I just want to clarify : The vice president was exposed .
We do know , even from his own reporting , that he was in the company of the president at a time when many others in the White House had been exposed and were falling ill .
So , absolutely , the vice president should have quarantined .
I don ’ t think that last night ’ s debate should have been held in person .
I don ’ t think it was safe .
Even if we know that daily @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it does not mean that hours after you test negative you can ’ t test positive .
That ’ s the way that his works .
You ’ re negative until you ’ re positive .
We don ’ t know , ultimately , if Vice President Pence will ultimately test positive .
I hope , for his sake , that he doesn ’ t .
But regarding the debate last night , the plexiglass was pure theater .
From a public health and a disease transmission perspective , it does basically nothing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ know — DR. CRAIG SPENCER : Oh , please .
Well , I was just going to say that we do know that the majority of transmission occurs in closer contact from respiratory droplets .
The CDC has recently changed its wording on its own website to say that there is some component of airborne transmission .
Remember that that was put up a month ago and then hastily took down .
There was a question of whether this was , again , some meddling with the scientific process that we ’ ve @ @ @ @ @ @ @ do know that there ’ s certainly still a risk that if the vice president was infected , he could be contagious and that some of those airborne particles , some of that airborne virus , could potentially infect others that were in the same room .
DR. CRAIG SPENCER : What would have been more effective was probably having a box fan .
AMY GOODMAN : The number of people connected to the White House coronavirus outbreak is now at 34 , much higher than previously known .
Many of those infected @ @ @ @ @ @ @ happened inside and outside , a reception inside , where President Trump nominated Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court .
During the debate last night , moderator Susan Page asked Vice President Mike Pence about this .
AMY GOODMAN : So , that is , of course , the debate between Vice President Pence and Kamala Harris last night .
Dr. Craig Spencer , if you could respond to what they ’ ve said , and what it means to model behavior ?
And even at the end of the debate , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ came up , Kamala Harris ’ s husband , as was ordered to everyone in the room , was wearing a mask , but Karen Pence , Vice President Pence ’ s wife , the second lady , was not wearing a mask .
DR. CRAIG SPENCER : It ’ s just — it ’ s completely maddening .
Look , the White House has had more cases than the country of Yemen recently , than Vietnam , than New Zealand .
Our White House has more cases than countries .
How can @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the U.S. safe if it can ’ t keep the White House safe ?
And , you know , Vice President Pence does say , “ We were outside , ” which is considered safer .
Absolutely true .
But it ’ s not just one of these things , right ?
It ’ s multiple things in combination .
It ’ s being outside and distancing and wearing a mask .
You can ’ t just choose one of a multiple choice and expect that to protect you .
And I think @ @ @ @ @ @ @ outbreak that ’ s going on now .
I also think it ’ s important that Vice President Pence said that we trust the American people to make decisions about their health .
That is great , if the American people are getting the information that they need to make those decisions .
We know that , to date , this administration has undermined and really muzzled the CDC , the organization most responsible and helpful in helping the Americans make those decisions .
We know that this administration has been pushing misinformation @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from the president ’ s own Twitter feed , where he has to be muzzled by Twitter for sharing , really , lies about things like the risk of COVID versus the flu .
So , I agree , people should be able to make decisions about their health , but they need to be given the right information .
And this administration has actively made it very difficult for people to do so .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Well , Dr. Spencer , one of the reasons that people cite for the U.S. @ @ @ @ @ @ @ contact tracing that happened here early on and even now .
And the White House itself , despite this outbreak , has not — has , in fact , rejected an offer by the CDC to help with contact tracing , and many people who have been put at risk say they have not been contacted .
So , if you could respond to that and explain the importance of contact tracing , and then also this unprecedented editorial by the editors of the leading medical journal , The New England Journal of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ their handling of the pandemic ?
DR. CRAIG SPENCER : Absolutely .
So , on the first , on contact tracing , you know , that is such a critical part of disease detection , not just for coronavirus , but for any outbreak .
We did it with Ebola .
We did it , I mean , with any infectious disease that we want to control .
You need to test , you need to trace , and you need to isolate .
You need to find anyone that has been a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ been infectious .
You need to make sure that they quarantine .
You need to make sure that they have access to getting tested .
And you need to continue to follow their symptoms , so that if they get sick , you can find the people who have been exposed potentially by them , as well .
This is something the CDC does extremely well .
It is unconscionable that the White House is not doing this .
You saw that there was really a crowdsource in USA Today with a Google @ @ @ @ @ @ @ identify people who were at the Rose Garden .
This is something that the CDC does , and this is what their job is .
And so , again , this is another instance in which the White House is basically saying good public health that ’ s been established over the past few centuries just isn ’ t crucial here .
And that ’ s , again , I think , the reason that we see uncontrolled spread in the White House .
On the second point around The New England Journal @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , go ahead , Dr. Spencer .
DR. CRAIG SPENCER : I was going to say , on the second point , around The New England Journal of Medicine , as you pointed out , this is really an unprecedented step .
And I think what this highlights is that , for months and months and months , people have been saying that people like myself , physicians and public health scientists that are getting up and talking about how poor this administration ’ s response has been , have been telling us @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s not political when public health professionals and physicians and scientists talk about how poorly our politicians have handled our public health response .
It is our job as public health professionals to do so .
And I think The New England Journal of Medicine making that stance is just another critical voice adding to that mass of people who have just been incredibly disappointed in how bad we ’ ve handled this .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to go to last night ’ s debate moderator , Susan Page , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Trump administration ’ s rush to approve a vaccine .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Dr. Spencer , can you respond to what both candidates said last night ?
When Pence said that there will be a vaccine in record time , you tweeted in response that you ’ ve frequently criticized this administration for its public health response , but Operation Warp Speed is one of the best investments they ’ ve made .
DR. CRAIG SPENCER : Absolutely .
I think it ’ s a horrible name , but I think it ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ been very critical of this administration for its inability to do things like contact tracing and testing and help with PPE , but the huge financial investment in Operation Warp Speed has been critical .
And I am also quite optimistic that we ’ re going to have a vaccine in record time .
We may have multiple vaccines .
Many of them are in — really , in scientific research right now .
And I completely agree .
I signed onto a letter within the past few weeks basically saying to companies @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sure that these are safe before they are announced , because we have had , again , multiple episodes of this administration undermining or muzzling our public health agencies , undermining agencies like the FDA .
And we saw just a couple days ago that the White House refused to accept these guidelines that were proposed by the FDA to ensure safety around any possible new vaccine .
I am concerned that there ’ s a push to get an announcement out before the election .
That could absolutely undermine public confidence in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ candidate .
We have the potential to help end the pandemic with a good vaccine or couple good vaccines , if we get enough doses by sometime in the middle of next year .
We also have the potential of undermining the faith in vaccines , if we roll this out the wrong way , if there are complications , if there are side effects that are tied to a vaccine that was not adequately studied .
We need to do this right , because it ’ s not just short-term repercussions , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ well , if we don ’ t .
AMY GOODMAN : I wanted to go back to 2014 , before Trump was president , who repeatedly attacked you , Dr. Craig Spencer , after you became the first Ebola patient in New York , contracting the disease while you were treating Ebola patients in Africa , but didn ’ t show symptoms for 36 hours after returning to New York .
This is Trump .
AMY GOODMAN : So , that was Donald Trump on Fox News in 2014 talking about you breaking @ @ @ @ @ @ @ broken almost every rule that scientists have put forward around containing an illness .
Can you respond to what he said ?
DR. CRAIG SPENCER : Sure .
I mean , I don ’ t want to get in a tit-for-tat with the president because I don ’ t think he ’ s going to follow really any public health guidance .
But what ’ s clear was that at that time I followed all public health protocols as we knew them , we knew around the contagiousness of the disease and the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ look back , and I think that time has proven that my actions were responsible and in line with public health guidance .
I infected nobody else , thankfully .
I don ’ t know that the president himself , unfortunately , will be able to say the same .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Before we conclude , another question on another topic that neither of the two vice-presidential candidates responded to last night — namely , the one of presidential succession , given that whoever wins — Trump or Biden — next month @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the oldest presidents in U.S. — he will be the oldest president in U.S. history .
What are your concerns about having a president , either in Trump ’ s case , who ’ s 74 , or in Biden ’ s case , who will be 78 ?
DR. CRAIG SPENCER : I think that we probably need younger leadership in this country regardless .
I think we need some fresh ideas .
But for both of these candidates , yeah , there ’ s absolutely concerns , right ?
We know @ @ @ @ @ @ @ certainly not out of the woods .
His own physicians have said that , even if they report he ’ s not having symptoms .
He still had a severe case of coronavirus .
And even if he ’ s looking and feeling better , that does not mean that he ’ s completely out of the woods .
I have similar concerns for Vice President Biden .
We know , not just with COVID , but with many other health issues , the likelihood of having severe and negative impacts when you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
I have very similar concerns as everyone else , and I really want to push for younger , more representative leadership in this country .
AMY GOODMAN : Dr. Craig Spencer is director of global health in emergency medicine at Columbia University Medical Center .
When we come back , Reverend Barber will join us from the swing state of North Carolina to talk about other issues raised , around the issue of racial justice , the ACA , Obamacare , and President Trump attempting to overturn it .
Stay with us @

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Vice President Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris met in Salt Lake City, Utah, Wednesday night for the only vice-presidential debate of the campaign season. Separated by two plexiglass shields, they sparred on the climate crisis, the Supreme Court, the economy, institutional racism, the pandemic and other issues. The debate began with Kamala Harris slamming President Trump’s administration’s handling of the COVID-19 pandemic.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS: The American people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country. And here are the facts: 210,000 dead people in our country, in just the last several months; over 7 million people who have contracted this disease; one in five businesses closed. We’re looking at frontline workers who have been treated like sacrificial workers. We are looking at over 30 million people who in the last several months had to file for unemployment.
And here’s the thing: On January 28th, the vice president and the president were informed about the nature of this pandemic. They were informed that it’s lethal in consequence, that it is airborne, that it will affect young people, and that it would be contracted because it is airborne. And they knew what was happening, and they didn’t tell you. Can you imagine if you knew on January 28th, as opposed to March 13th, what they knew, what you might have done to prepare? They knew, and they covered it up. The president said it was a hoax. They minimized the seriousness of it. …
SUSAN PAGE: The U.S. death toll as a percentage of our population is higher than that of almost every other wealthy nation on Earth. For instance, our death rate is two-and-a-half times that of Canada, next door. You head the administration’s coronavirus task force. Why is the U.S. death toll, as a percentage of our population, higher than that of almost every other wealthy country? …
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: And our nation has gone through a very challenging time this year. But I want the American people to know that from the very first day, President Donald Trump has put the health of America first. Before there were more than five cases in the United States, all people who had returned from China, President Donald Trump did what no other American president had ever done. And that was, he suspended all travel from China, the second-largest economy in the world. Now, Senator Joe Biden opposed that decision. He said it was xenophobic and hysterical. But I can tell you, having led the White House Coronavirus Task Force, that that decision alone by President Trump bought us invaluable time to stand up the greatest national mobilization since World War II.
And I believe it saved hundreds of thousands of American lives, because with that time we were able to reinvent testing. More than 115 million tests have been done to date. We were able to see to the delivery of billions of supplies, so our doctors and nurses had the resources support they needed. And we began — really, before the month of February, we started to develop a vaccine and to develop medicines and therapeutics that have been saving lives all along the way. And under President Trump’s leadership, Operation Warp Speed, we believe we’ll have literally tens of millions of doses of a vaccine before the end of this year.
The reality is, when you look at the Biden plan, it reads an awful lot like what President Trump and I and our task force have been doing every step of the way. And quite frankly, when I look at their plan, that talks about advancing testing, creating new PPE, developing a vaccine, it looks a little bit like plagiarism, which is something Joe Biden knows a little bit about. …
SUSAN PAGE: Senator Harris, would you like to respond?
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS: Oh, absolutely. Whatever the vice president is claiming the administration has done, clearly it hasn’t worked, when you’re looking at over 210,000 dead bodies in our country, American lives that have been lost, families that are grieving that loss. And, you know, the vice president is the head of the task force and knew on January 28th how serious this was. And then, thanks to Bob Woodward, we learned that they knew about it. And then, when that was exposed, the vice president said — when asked, “Well, why didn’t y’all tell anybody?” he said, “Because the president wanted people to remain calm.”
SUSAN PAGE: Well, let’s give —
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS: So, I — no, but, Susan, this is important. And I want to add —
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Susan, I have to weigh in here.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS: Mr. Vice President, I’m speaking.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: I have to weigh in.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS: I’m speaking. So, I want to —
SUSAN PAGE: You can have 15 more seconds, and then we’ll give the vice president a chance to respond.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS: Thank you. So, I want to ask the American: How calm were you when you were panicked about where you were going to get your next roll of toilet paper? How calm were you when your kids were sent home from school and you didn’t know when they could go back? How calm were you —
SUSAN PAGE: Thank you.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS: — when your children —
SUSAN PAGE: Thank you, Senator Harris.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS: — couldn’t see your parents because you were afraid they could kill them?
AMY GOODMAN: We begin today’s show with Dr. Craig Spencer, director of global health in emergency medicine at Columbia University Medical Center. In 2014, he contracted Ebola while fighting its outbreak in Africa, is now emergency room doctor here in New York City, where he’s been treating coronavirus patients.
Before we get your response to the debate that we just heard, Dr. Spencer, we wanted to get your response to the latest breaking news. The infected president of the United States — right? — President Trump has COVID-19 — has just said he will not go along with the Commission on Presidential Debates’ decision to have a virtual second presidential debate next week because of the deep concern of how many more people would be exposed to President Trump, who has COVID. Can you respond to what he is saying, not to mention what has happened throughout this weekend, President Trump in the White House breaking isolation, going to the Oval Office, talking about the miracle cure of this Regeneron cocktail and saying that COVID is a gift of God?
DR. CRAIG SPENCER: Yeah, for sure. I don’t think this is a gift from God for anybody. We have, as you’ve already pointed out, nearly 212,000 people that have died. We have increasing cases all across the country. There will be many more deaths from this. I don’t think this is a gift to anyone.
Regarding having a presidential debate in person, I certainly wouldn’t stand on stage with someone who was recently infected with coronavirus. There are guidelines for when someone is most likely no longer contagious, but we would need to have some transparency from this administration on the president’s health and how he is testing, what symptoms he’s actually having. We haven’t received that to date. I think what we saw this weekend when the president was hospitalized, we were told one thing, and then, the next day, told something different. We’re getting more information from short video clips than we are actually from the president’s doctor. So, personally, I don’t feel comfortable, and I certainly wouldn’t feel comfortable for myself, for Vice President Biden or for really anyone else to be up on that debate stage with President Trump, without knowing some really key details.
AMY GOODMAN: And how he’s behaved this weekend, from being in that hermetically sealed car to wave to his supporters, with Secret Service having to be around him in that car, as well, to breaking isolation in the White House?
DR. CRAIG SPENCER: Absolutely. I mean, I think it’s clear this is a — this is something that we’ve seen since really early on, right? This president and this administration have flouted, really, all well-known public health principles about how you prevent this disease, about how you prevent its spread. They have undermined science, again, since day one. That’s the reason that we have the world’s worst outbreak of COVID, the reason that we have the most deaths of any country in the world.
I don’t trust, quite frankly and unfortunately, the president to make the right decisions, not only about his health, but about the health of all the other Americans and those he may expose. The antics from this weekend, the joyride, completely unnecessary. Maybe for political theater it was helpful, but from a public health perspective it was just disastrous.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Dr. Spencer, obviously, now Trump has said, as you just talked about earlier, that he has refused the proposal for next week’s debate to be virtual. But many people raised concerns also about last night’s debate, given some uncertainty about whether Vice President Pence may have been exposed to the virus. And several people pointed out that the plexiglass that they put up between Kamala Harris and Vice President Pence would do virtually nothing to prevent airborne transmission. Could you respond to that? And what kinds of measures would need to be taken to prevent airborne transmission in a context like last night?
DR. CRAIG SPENCER: That’s a great question. First, I just want to clarify: The vice president was exposed. We do know, even from his own reporting, that he was in the company of the president at a time when many others in the White House had been exposed and were falling ill. So, absolutely, the vice president should have quarantined. I don’t think that last night’s debate should have been held in person. I don’t think it was safe. Even if we know that daily you test negative for the coronavirus, it does not mean that hours after you test negative you can’t test positive. That’s the way that his works. You’re negative until you’re positive. We don’t know, ultimately, if Vice President Pence will ultimately test positive. I hope, for his sake, that he doesn’t.
But regarding the debate last night, the plexiglass was pure theater. From a public health and a disease transmission perspective, it does basically nothing.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted —
DR. CRAIG SPENCER: We do know —
AMY GOODMAN: Go ahead.
DR. CRAIG SPENCER: Oh, please. Well, I was just going to say that we do know that the majority of transmission occurs in closer contact from respiratory droplets. The CDC has recently changed its wording on its own website to say that there is some component of airborne transmission. Remember that that was put up a month ago and then hastily took down. There was a question of whether this was, again, some meddling with the scientific process that we’ve seen from this administration. But we do know that there’s certainly still a risk that if the vice president was infected, he could be contagious and that some of those airborne particles, some of that airborne virus, could potentially infect others that were in the same room.
AMY GOODMAN: The number of people —
DR. CRAIG SPENCER: What would have been more effective was probably having a box fan.
AMY GOODMAN: The number of people connected to the White House coronavirus outbreak is now at 34, much higher than previously known. Many of those infected attended that Rose Garden ceremony, which happened inside and outside, a reception inside, where President Trump nominated Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court. During the debate last night, moderator Susan Page asked Vice President Mike Pence about this.
SUSAN PAGE: Vice President Pence, you were in the front row in a Rose Garden event 11 days ago, at what seems to have been a superspreader event for senior administration and congressional officials — no social distancing, few masks, and now a cluster of coronavirus cases among those who were there. How can you expect Americans to follow the administration’s safety guidelines to protect themselves from COVID when you at the White House have not been doing so? …
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: If I may say, that Rose Garden event, been a great deal of speculation about it. My wife Karen and I were there and honored to be there. Many of the people who were at that event, Susan, actually were tested —
SUSAN PAGE: Yes.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: — for coronavirus. And it was an outdoor event, which all of our scientists regularly and routinely advise. The difference here is, President Trump and I trust the American people to make choices in the best interest of their health. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris consistently talk about mandates, and not just mandates with the coronavirus, but a government takeover of healthcare —
SUSAN PAGE: Thank you. Thank you, Vice President Pence.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: — the Green New Deal, all government control. We’re about freedom and respecting the freedom of the American people.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS: Let’s talk about respecting the American people. You respect the American people when you tell them the truth. You respect the American people when you have the courage —
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Which we’ve always done.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS: — to be a leader speaking of those things that you may not want people to hear, but they need to hear so they can protect themselves.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that is, of course, the debate between Vice President Pence and Kamala Harris last night. Dr. Craig Spencer, if you could respond to what they’ve said, and what it means to model behavior? And even at the end of the debate, when the spouses of the vice-presidential candidates came up, Kamala Harris’s husband, as was ordered to everyone in the room, was wearing a mask, but Karen Pence, Vice President Pence’s wife, the second lady, was not wearing a mask.
DR. CRAIG SPENCER: It’s just — it’s completely maddening. Look, the White House has had more cases than the country of Yemen recently, than Vietnam, than New Zealand. Our White House has more cases than countries. How can we expect the White House to keep the U.S. safe if it can’t keep the White House safe?
And, you know, Vice President Pence does say, “We were outside,” which is considered safer. Absolutely true. But it’s not just one of these things, right? It’s multiple things in combination. It’s being outside and distancing and wearing a mask. You can’t just choose one of a multiple choice and expect that to protect you. And I think we’ve seen that with the outbreak that’s going on now.
I also think it’s important that Vice President Pence said that we trust the American people to make decisions about their health. That is great, if the American people are getting the information that they need to make those decisions. We know that, to date, this administration has undermined and really muzzled the CDC, the organization most responsible and helpful in helping the Americans make those decisions. We know that this administration has been pushing misinformation and disinformation, much of it coming from the president’s own Twitter feed, where he has to be muzzled by Twitter for sharing, really, lies about things like the risk of COVID versus the flu. So, I agree, people should be able to make decisions about their health, but they need to be given the right information. And this administration has actively made it very difficult for people to do so.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Dr. Spencer, one of the reasons that people cite for the U.S. having such high numbers is the insufficient contact tracing that happened here early on and even now. And the White House itself, despite this outbreak, has not — has, in fact, rejected an offer by the CDC to help with contact tracing, and many people who have been put at risk say they have not been contacted. So, if you could respond to that and explain the importance of contact tracing, and then also this unprecedented editorial by the editors of the leading medical journal, The New England Journal of Medicine, criticizing the Trump administration for their handling of the pandemic?
DR. CRAIG SPENCER: Absolutely. So, on the first, on contact tracing, you know, that is such a critical part of disease detection, not just for coronavirus, but for any outbreak. We did it with Ebola. We did it, I mean, with any infectious disease that we want to control. You need to test, you need to trace, and you need to isolate. You need to find anyone that has been a potential contact of someone who could have been infectious. You need to make sure that they quarantine. You need to make sure that they have access to getting tested. And you need to continue to follow their symptoms, so that if they get sick, you can find the people who have been exposed potentially by them, as well.
This is something the CDC does extremely well. It is unconscionable that the White House is not doing this. You saw that there was really a crowdsource in USA Today with a Google doc to try to get names and identify people who were at the Rose Garden. This is something that the CDC does, and this is what their job is. And so, again, this is another instance in which the White House is basically saying good public health that’s been established over the past few centuries just isn’t crucial here. And that’s, again, I think, the reason that we see uncontrolled spread in the White House.
On the second point around The New England Journal —
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Doctor —
DR. CRAIG SPENCER: I’m sorry. Please?
NERMEEN SHAIKH: No, please, go ahead, Dr. Spencer.
DR. CRAIG SPENCER: I was going to say, on the second point, around The New England Journal of Medicine, as you pointed out, this is really an unprecedented step. And I think what this highlights is that, for months and months and months, people have been saying that people like myself, physicians and public health scientists that are getting up and talking about how poor this administration’s response has been, have been telling us that we’re political. It’s not political when public health professionals and physicians and scientists talk about how poorly our politicians have handled our public health response. It is our job as public health professionals to do so. And I think The New England Journal of Medicine making that stance is just another critical voice adding to that mass of people who have just been incredibly disappointed in how bad we’ve handled this.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to go to last night’s debate moderator, Susan Page, who asked Senator Kamala Harris about the Trump administration’s rush to approve a vaccine.
SUSAN PAGE: If the Trump administration approves a vaccine before or after the election, should Americans take it, and would you take it?
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS: If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it, absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us I should take — that we should take it, I’m not taking it. …
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: The reality is that we’re going to have a vaccine, Senator, in record time, in unheard-of time, in less than a year. We have five companies in Phase 3 clinical trials. And we’re right now producing tens of millions of doses. So, the fact that you continue to undermine public confidence in a vaccine, if a vaccine emerges during the Trump administration, I think, is unconscionable. And, Senator, I just ask you: Stop playing politics with people’s lives.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Dr. Spencer, can you respond to what both candidates said last night? When Pence said that there will be a vaccine in record time, you tweeted in response that you’ve frequently criticized this administration for its public health response, but Operation Warp Speed is one of the best investments they’ve made.
DR. CRAIG SPENCER: Absolutely. I think it’s a horrible name, but I think it’s an incredible initiative. I have been very critical of this administration for its inability to do things like contact tracing and testing and help with PPE, but the huge financial investment in Operation Warp Speed has been critical. And I am also quite optimistic that we’re going to have a vaccine in record time. We may have multiple vaccines. Many of them are in — really, in scientific research right now.
And I completely agree. I signed onto a letter within the past few weeks basically saying to companies like Pfizer that we need to make sure that these are safe before they are announced, because we have had, again, multiple episodes of this administration undermining or muzzling our public health agencies, undermining agencies like the FDA. And we saw just a couple days ago that the White House refused to accept these guidelines that were proposed by the FDA to ensure safety around any possible new vaccine. I am concerned that there’s a push to get an announcement out before the election. That could absolutely undermine public confidence in what could be a really good vaccine candidate.
We have the potential to help end the pandemic with a good vaccine or couple good vaccines, if we get enough doses by sometime in the middle of next year. We also have the potential of undermining the faith in vaccines, if we roll this out the wrong way, if there are complications, if there are side effects that are tied to a vaccine that was not adequately studied. We need to do this right, because it’s not just short-term repercussions, it’s long-term repercussions, as well, if we don’t.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go back to 2014, before Trump was president, who repeatedly attacked you, Dr. Craig Spencer, after you became the first Ebola patient in New York, contracting the disease while you were treating Ebola patients in Africa, but didn’t show symptoms for 36 hours after returning to New York. This is Trump.
DONALD TRUMP: I consider that doctor extremely selfish, who came back, and then he toured New York.
STEVE DOOCY: Right.
DONALD TRUMP: I mean, he went on crowded subways during rush hour, had dinner in Brooklyn, went to a bowling alley and bowled, and went all over the place.
STEVE DOOCY: That’s right.
DONALD TRUMP: I think he’s a very selfish person, frankly.
STEVE DOOCY: Well, that would be Dr. Craig Spencer. And so, Cuomo and Christie —
AMY GOODMAN: So, that was Donald Trump on Fox News in 2014 talking about you breaking the rules — the president who has broken almost every rule that scientists have put forward around containing an illness. Can you respond to what he said?
DR. CRAIG SPENCER: Sure. I mean, I don’t want to get in a tit-for-tat with the president because I don’t think he’s going to follow really any public health guidance. But what’s clear was that at that time I followed all public health protocols as we knew them, we knew around the contagiousness of the disease and the ability to infect others. You can look back, and I think that time has proven that my actions were responsible and in line with public health guidance. I infected nobody else, thankfully. I don’t know that the president himself, unfortunately, will be able to say the same.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Before we conclude, another question on another topic that neither of the two vice-presidential candidates responded to last night — namely, the one of presidential succession, given that whoever wins — Trump or Biden — next month’s election, they will be the oldest presidents in U.S. — he will be the oldest president in U.S. history. What are your concerns about having a president, either in Trump’s case, who’s 74, or in Biden’s case, who will be 78?
DR. CRAIG SPENCER: I think that we probably need younger leadership in this country regardless. I think we need some fresh ideas. But for both of these candidates, yeah, there’s absolutely concerns, right? We know that, for one, Trump is certainly not out of the woods. His own physicians have said that, even if they report he’s not having symptoms. He still had a severe case of coronavirus. And even if he’s looking and feeling better, that does not mean that he’s completely out of the woods.
I have similar concerns for Vice President Biden. We know, not just with COVID, but with many other health issues, the likelihood of having severe and negative impacts when you’re older is certainly much higher. I have very similar concerns as everyone else, and I really want to push for younger, more representative leadership in this country.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Craig Spencer is director of global health in emergency medicine at Columbia University Medical Center.
When we come back, Reverend Barber will join us from the swing state of North Carolina to talk about other issues raised, around the issue of racial justice, the ACA, Obamacare, and President Trump attempting to overturn it. Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-10-08--Headlines for October  8, 2020

Headlines for October  8, 2020

On Wednesday afternoon , Trump released a taped message from the White House lawn that was apparently recorded on Tuesday .
Trump wore heavy makeup and appeared short of breath at times .
In the five-minute video , Trump claimed he feels “ great ” and “ perfect ” and claimed an experimental antibody cocktail he received was a “ cure ” for COVID-19 .
President Donald Trump : “ So , I think this was a blessing from God that I caught it .
This was a blessing in disguise .
I caught it .
I heard about this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ take it . '
It was my suggestion .
I said , 'Let me take it . '
And it was incredible , the way it worked .
Incredible.
” Trump called the drug “ Regeneron , ” which is actually the name of the company that produces it .
The drug is still in clinical trials , though Trump said he was making it available to all Americans , free of charge .
President Donald Trump : “ I ’ ve authorized it .
And if you ’ re in the hospital @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , I think we ’ re going to work it so that you get them , and you ’ re going to get them free .
And especially if you ’ re a senior , we ’ re going to get you in there quick.
” Only 10 people in the United States have taken the drug outside the clinical trial .
Trump ’ s offer of free antibody drugs came as he announced an abrupt end to negotiations over a COVID-19 stimulus bill until after the election , though he later partially @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Times analysis found Trump ’ s weekend hospitalization — which was provided free of charge to the president — would have cost an ordinary American over $ 100,000 .
Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders tweeted in response , “ The excellent care you received at Walter Reed was at a 100 % government-funded , government run hospital .
For Trump , 'socialized medicine ' is bad for everyone but himself .
Total hypocrisy !
” Meanwhile , the Commission on Presidential Debates has announced the second debate between President Trump and Joe Biden scheduled @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a virtual town meeting , with the candidates participating from separate remote locations .
In an interview with Fox Business channel Thursday morning , Trump said , “ I ’ m not going to waste my time on a virtual debate .
”

On Wednesday afternoon, Trump released a taped message from the White House lawn that was apparently recorded on Tuesday. Trump wore heavy makeup and appeared short of breath at times. In the five-minute video, Trump claimed he feels “great” and “perfect” and claimed an experimental antibody cocktail he received was a “cure” for COVID-19.
President Donald Trump: “So, I think this was a blessing from God that I caught it. This was a blessing in disguise. I caught it. I heard about this drug. I said, 'Let me take it.' It was my suggestion. I said, 'Let me take it.' And it was incredible, the way it worked. Incredible.”
Trump called the drug “Regeneron,” which is actually the name of the company that produces it. The drug is still in clinical trials, though Trump said he was making it available to all Americans, free of charge.
President Donald Trump: “I’ve authorized it. And if you’re in the hospital and you’re feeling really bad, I think we’re going to work it so that you get them, and you’re going to get them free. And especially if you’re a senior, we’re going to get you in there quick.”
Only 10 people in the United States have taken the drug outside the clinical trial. Trump’s offer of free antibody drugs came as he announced an abrupt end to negotiations over a COVID-19 stimulus bill until after the election, though he later partially reversed the announcement.
A New York Times analysis found Trump’s weekend hospitalization — which was provided free of charge to the president — would have cost an ordinary American over $100,000. Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders tweeted in response, “The excellent care you received at Walter Reed was at a 100% government-funded, government run hospital. For Trump, 'socialized medicine' is bad for everyone but himself. Total hypocrisy!”
Meanwhile, the Commission on Presidential Debates has announced the second debate between President Trump and Joe Biden scheduled for next Thursday will be conducted as a virtual town meeting, with the candidates participating from separate remote locations. In an interview with Fox Business channel Thursday morning, Trump said, “I’m not going to waste my time on a virtual debate.”


democracynow--2020-10-09--Armenia-Azerbaijan Conflict: Why Turkey's Intervention Could Turn It into a "Proxy War"

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , as we spend the rest of the hour looking at the ongoing fighting between Armenia and Azerbaijan over the disputed territory of Nagorno-Karabakh , where at least 300 people have died since the violence began two weeks ago — the real death toll expected to be far higher .
Russia said both countries have agreed to talks in Moscow , expected to take place today , a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the table .
French President Emmanuel Macron said the — his office said the two countries were , quote , “ moving toward a truce … but it ’ s still fragile.
” Nagorno-Karabakh lies inside Azerbaijan but is controlled by ethnic Armenians .
It was the site of a bloody conflict in the wake of the collapse of the Soviet Union .
Many fear this latest spike in conflict , the worst since the ’ 90s , could spark a regional war , with Turkey openly supporting Azerbaijan and Russia allied with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ fighters have signed up to work with private Turkish forces in Azerbaijan , and Turkey is reportedly supplying Azerbaijan with drones and weapons .
In an interview with Sky News earlier this week , the Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan accused Turkey of continuing its genocidal policies against the Armenian people .
AMY GOODMAN : Amnesty International reports Azerbaijan has used banned cluster bombs in civilian areas .
Well , for more , we go to Concord , Massachusetts , where we ’ re joined by Anna Ohanyan , professor of political science @ @ @ @ @ @ @ She ’ s the author of Russia Abroad : Driving Regional Fracture in Post-Communist Eurasia and Beyond and Networked Regionalism as Conflict Management .
Welcome to Democracy Now !
, Professor Ohanyan .
It ’ s great to have you with us .
This is an area of the world that I believe most people in the United States are not paying much attention to .
If you can talk about exactly what ’ s happening , as the foreign ministers of both Armenia and Azerbaijan are now coming to Moscow today , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what has happened ?
Why has this conflagration grown ?
ANNA OHANYAN : Thank you very much , Amy , for covering the developments , the violence that is ongoing , the offensive from on the Nagorno-Karabakh from Azerbaijan and Turkey , coordinated offensive .
As you mentioned already , Turkey has come , has been supporting Azerbaijan diplomatically previously , as well as training the Azerbaijani military .
But this particular involvement , the specific type of intervention , Turkey ’ s intervention on the side of Azerbaijan , is very destabilizing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ mercenaries , as well as drone technology .
It creates the conditions of transforming this conflict into a proxy war .
But there are two broad perspectives , have been applied to analyze as to what has been going on .
More of the more easily understood geopolitical analysis , “ two-dimensional , ” what I would call , has been describing — has been prevalent and explaining this conflict as a resurgence of Turkey trying to enter the South Caucasus as a regional power broker , although Erdogan has been self-proclaiming his @ @ @ @ @ @ @ given Turkish territorial boundaries recognized by the Lausanne Treaty .
So , the geopolitical analysis also will have us think about this as a confrontation between Russia and Turkey .
But I think this narrative is really missing a lot that is very much under the radar and has not been picked up as much by the international news coverage .
And the key development here is the domestic , domestic factors driving the foreign policies of these countries , Turkey and Azerbaijan .
In particular , what is missing from the discourse @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a democratic breakthrough , the Velvet Revolution , which was bottom up , driven by people power , a nonviolent disobedience campaign .
And this created — was very significant for South Caucasus , because it created a democratic dyad with neighboring Georgia , already being a democratic society .
Studies in social science and peace research have established that when in a region a democratic pole is strengthened , this creates cause , this creates pressure on the authoritarian pole — in this case , Azerbaijan — towards democratization .
So , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ President Aliyev inherited his seat from his father and is grooming his wife to take over — so , Aliyev , for a while , it looked like , tried to be a lot more accommodative .
However , within two years , you also see Belarus protests breaking up , and people kept referring to Lukashenko as the last dictator of Europe , which is a mischaracterization because Aliyev is actually probably the last dictator of Europe .
This Aliyev , instead of really trying to move in that direction , pulled @ @ @ @ @ @ @ dyad between the change , the structure , strengthened the democratic pole in South Caucasus , and therefore created an important avenue for mitigating the conflict .
This was essentially offset by authoritarian coordination between Azerbaijan and Turkey .
So , Turkey ’ s entry , I mentioned , changes the structure of the conflict , because by bringing in mercenaries from Syria , it does two very important and unfortunate things .
It introduces privatization and privatizes violence in a country .
Probably these types of state formation conflicts that you see @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , they ’ re already hard to negotiate through a negotiated settlement , but they ’ re also hard to win militarily .
So , introducing this element , Turkey ’ s change of the structure of this conflict , is very destabilizing for the region .
Also — AMY GOODMAN : Now , talk about the significance of the foreign ministers of Armenia and Azerbaijan going to Moscow today for peace talks .
Of course , Putin , we know , is in a basically COVID bunker since March , does not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have to be quarantined for two weeks before they can see him , going through disinfectant tunnels , everything like that .
But why Moscow ?
And what do you think will come of this ?
ANNA OHANYAN : I definitely — any push , any diplomatic attention to end the hostilities is welcome news .
I think at this point the challenge is to end the violence .
Turkey has been the only country , among the regional powers , great powers that matter , that has been pushing for a militarized @ @ @ @ @ @ @ militarized solution to the conflict would be a loss for Azerbaijani people , as well .
It would be very difficult for Azerbaijani society to move into a democratic path down the road .
Russia ’ s role , in particular , here , I have to say , Russia has been the grown-up in the room .
Russia , contrary to the , what I referred to , geopolitical analysis , that would have Russia and Turkey clashing — obviously there are tensions .
Obviously Russia and Turkey are on different sides @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
But here , this indeed has been Russia ’ s historical backyard since predating the Soviet Union .
And what is important here is that Russia has been playing — Kremlin has been playing very much an institutional role .
In contrast to Turkey , it is using all the regional organizations and institutional channels that it created .
So , the question is whether Kremlin will have enough leverage to pressure both sides .
I am worried that it ’ s Turkey here , is the big factor .
Whether Russia @ @ @ @ @ @ @ affairs of Armenia and Azerbaijan is really wonderful .
It ’ s important .
So , right now — but I ’ m , again , not sure how Turkish factor will be handled .
AMY GOODMAN : We just have — AMY GOODMAN : We just have 30 seconds .
AMY GOODMAN : But you have called Azerbaijan an authoritarian petrostate .
And the area we ’ re talking about , Nagorno-Karabakh , is an area of pipelines , of oil .
This is that oil-rich area .
Why is this significant @ @ @ @ @ @ @ significant , because , again , from the global perspective , The Economist magazine just issued a very important report that the global capital markets are shifting towards green energy order .
So , this will be in the — that report also pointed out , not surprisingly , that this creates pressure on the petrostates to move towards taxation , taxing their citizens , which will require them to engage and build representative institutions .
This is a diversionary war on the side of Aliyev , that has been — domestic discontent @ @ @ @ @ @ @ — the authoritarianism in Azerbaijan has been nourished by the oil , by the pipelines .
With the collapse of the Soviet Union , Azerbaijan emerged as an independent country and started to control its oil resources .
Unfortunately , the — AMY GOODMAN : We have five seconds .
ANNA OHANYAN : Yeah , this authoritarianism , this militarism has not been challenged , and we see this playing out in Nagorno-Karabakh .
AMY GOODMAN : And we ’ ll , of course , continue to follow this .
Anna Ohanyan , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , professor of political science and international relations at Stonehill College .
Her books include Russia Abroad .
That does it for our show .
Stay safe .
Wear a mask .
Save lives .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman, as we spend the rest of the hour looking at the ongoing fighting between Armenia and Azerbaijan over the disputed territory of Nagorno-Karabakh, where at least 300 people have died since the violence began two weeks ago — the real death toll expected to be far higher. Russia said both countries have agreed to talks in Moscow, expected to take place today, a sign that a ceasefire may be on the table. French President Emmanuel Macron said the — his office said the two countries were, quote, “moving toward a truce … but it’s still fragile.”
Nagorno-Karabakh lies inside Azerbaijan but is controlled by ethnic Armenians. It was the site of a bloody conflict in the wake of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Many fear this latest spike in conflict, the worst since the ’90s, could spark a regional war, with Turkey openly supporting Azerbaijan and Russia allied with Armenia. The Guardian reports Syrian rebel fighters have signed up to work with private Turkish forces in Azerbaijan, and Turkey is reportedly supplying Azerbaijan with drones and weapons. In an interview with Sky News earlier this week, the Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan accused Turkey of continuing its genocidal policies against the Armenian people.
PRIME MINISTER NIKOL PASHINYAN: [translated] It is absolutely not inflammatory language when I say that this is Turkey’s policy to continue the Armenian genocide. Let us look at what Turkey is implementing in the Mediterranean, in Libya, in Syria, Iraq. To me, there is not doubt that this is a policy of continuing the Armenian genocide and a policy of reinstating the Turkish Empire.
AMY GOODMAN: Amnesty International reports Azerbaijan has used banned cluster bombs in civilian areas.
Well, for more, we go to Concord, Massachusetts, where we’re joined by Anna Ohanyan, professor of political science and international relations at Stonehill College. She’s the author of Russia Abroad: Driving Regional Fracture in Post-Communist Eurasia and Beyond and Networked Regionalism as Conflict Management.
Welcome to Democracy Now!, Professor Ohanyan. It’s great to have you with us. This is an area of the world that I believe most people in the United States are not paying much attention to. If you can talk about exactly what’s happening, as the foreign ministers of both Armenia and Azerbaijan are now coming to Moscow today, apparently, for peace talks? But what has happened? Why has this conflagration grown?
ANNA OHANYAN: Thank you very much, Amy, for covering the developments, the violence that is ongoing, the offensive from on the Nagorno-Karabakh from Azerbaijan and Turkey, coordinated offensive.
As you mentioned already, Turkey has come, has been supporting Azerbaijan diplomatically previously, as well as training the Azerbaijani military. But this particular involvement, the specific type of intervention, Turkey’s intervention on the side of Azerbaijan, is very destabilizing in terms of the support with the mercenaries, as well as drone technology. It creates the conditions of transforming this conflict into a proxy war.
But there are two broad perspectives, have been applied to analyze as to what has been going on. More of the more easily understood geopolitical analysis, “two-dimensional,” what I would call, has been describing — has been prevalent and explaining this conflict as a resurgence of Turkey trying to enter the South Caucasus as a regional power broker, although Erdogan has been self-proclaiming his foreign policy being neo-Ottomanism, essentially challenging given Turkish territorial boundaries recognized by the Lausanne Treaty. So, the geopolitical analysis also will have us think about this as a confrontation between Russia and Turkey.
But I think this narrative is really missing a lot that is very much under the radar and has not been picked up as much by the international news coverage. And the key development here is the domestic, domestic factors driving the foreign policies of these countries, Turkey and Azerbaijan. In particular, what is missing from the discourse is that two years ago Armenia had a democratic breakthrough, the Velvet Revolution, which was bottom up, driven by people power, a nonviolent disobedience campaign. And this created — was very significant for South Caucasus, because it created a democratic dyad with neighboring Georgia, already being a democratic society. Studies in social science and peace research have established that when in a region a democratic pole is strengthened, this creates cause, this creates pressure on the authoritarian pole — in this case, Azerbaijan — towards democratization.
So, this Aliyev regime, that — where President Aliyev inherited his seat from his father and is grooming his wife to take over — so, Aliyev, for a while, it looked like, tried to be a lot more accommodative. However, within two years, you also see Belarus protests breaking up, and people kept referring to Lukashenko as the last dictator of Europe, which is a mischaracterization because Aliyev is actually probably the last dictator of Europe. This Aliyev, instead of really trying to move in that direction, pulled in Turkey. I think the democratic dyad between the change, the structure, strengthened the democratic pole in South Caucasus, and therefore created an important avenue for mitigating the conflict. This was essentially offset by authoritarian coordination between Azerbaijan and Turkey.
So, Turkey’s entry, I mentioned, changes the structure of the conflict, because by bringing in mercenaries from Syria, it does two very important and unfortunate things. It introduces privatization and privatizes violence in a country. Probably these types of state formation conflicts that you see, of which Nagorno-Karabakh conflict is one, they’re already hard to negotiate through a negotiated settlement, but they’re also hard to win militarily. So, introducing this element, Turkey’s change of the structure of this conflict, is very destabilizing for the region. Also —
AMY GOODMAN: Now, talk about the significance of the foreign ministers of Armenia and Azerbaijan going to Moscow today for peace talks. Of course, Putin, we know, is in a basically COVID bunker since March, does not see a lot of people. They have to be quarantined for two weeks before they can see him, going through disinfectant tunnels, everything like that. But why Moscow? And what do you think will come of this?
ANNA OHANYAN: I definitely — any push, any diplomatic attention to end the hostilities is welcome news. I think at this point the challenge is to end the violence. Turkey has been the only country, among the regional powers, great powers that matter, that has been pushing for a militarized solution, which would be — any militarized solution to the conflict would be a loss for Azerbaijani people, as well. It would be very difficult for Azerbaijani society to move into a democratic path down the road.
Russia’s role, in particular, here, I have to say, Russia has been the grown-up in the room. Russia, contrary to the, what I referred to, geopolitical analysis, that would have Russia and Turkey clashing — obviously there are tensions. Obviously Russia and Turkey are on different sides of conflicts in Syria, in Libya. But here, this indeed has been Russia’s historical backyard since predating the Soviet Union. And what is important here is that Russia has been playing — Kremlin has been playing very much an institutional role. In contrast to Turkey, it is using all the regional organizations and institutional channels that it created. So, the question is whether Kremlin will have enough leverage to pressure both sides. I am worried that it’s Turkey here, is the big factor. Whether Russia is pulling in the ministers of foreign affairs of Armenia and Azerbaijan is really wonderful. It’s important. So, right now — but I’m, again, not sure how Turkish factor will be handled.
AMY GOODMAN: We just have —
ANNA OHANYAN: Any —
AMY GOODMAN: We just have 30 seconds.
ANNA OHANYAN: Sure.
AMY GOODMAN: But you have called Azerbaijan an authoritarian petrostate. And the area we’re talking about, Nagorno-Karabakh, is an area of pipelines, of oil. This is that oil-rich area. Why is this significant?
ANNA OHANYAN: This is very significant, because, again, from the global perspective, The Economist magazine just issued a very important report that the global capital markets are shifting towards green energy order. So, this will be in the — that report also pointed out, not surprisingly, that this creates pressure on the petrostates to move towards taxation, taxing their citizens, which will require them to engage and build representative institutions.
This is a diversionary war on the side of Aliyev, that has been — domestic discontent has been enormous. And Aliyev has — the authoritarianism in Azerbaijan has been nourished by the oil, by the pipelines. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, Azerbaijan emerged as an independent country and started to control its oil resources. Unfortunately, the —
AMY GOODMAN: We have five seconds.
ANNA OHANYAN: Yeah, this authoritarianism, this militarism has not been challenged, and we see this playing out in Nagorno-Karabakh.
AMY GOODMAN: And we’ll, of course, continue to follow this. Anna Ohanyan, thanks so much for being with us, professor of political science and international relations at Stonehill College. Her books include Russia Abroad.
That does it for our show. Stay safe. Wear a mask. Save lives. I’m Amy Goodman.


democracynow--2020-10-09--U.N. World Food Programme Wins Nobel Peace Prize for Tackling Hunger Amid War, Pandemic & Climate Cr

U.N. World Food Programme Wins Nobel Peace Prize for Tackling Hunger Amid War, Pandemic & Climate Crisis

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Shortly before we went to broadcast this morning , this year ’ s Nobel Peace Prize was announced .
AMY GOODMAN : That ’ s the Norwegian Nobel Committee chairwoman announcing the 2020 Nobel Peace Prize in Oslo at 5 a.m. Eastern Time this morning .
The World Food Programme is the United Nations ’ largest specialized agency , the world ’ s biggest humanitarian group addressing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ assistance in 88 countries to close to 100 million people .
In April , its director , David Beasley , told the U.N. Security Council the number of people worldwide experiencing severe hunger could double to 265 million unless urgent steps are taken .
AMY GOODMAN : That was David Beasley , the former South Carolina governor , is now head of the World Food Programme , speaking to the United Nations Security Council earlier this year .
For more , we ’ re joined by Vijay Prashad , director of the Tricontinental @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of The Poorer Nations : A Possible History of the Global South and many other books , including his latest , Washington Bullets : A History of the CIA , Coups , and Assassinations .
Vijay , welcome back to Democracy Now !
Can you respond to this latest announcement , and talk about the issue of global hunger , already a catastrophic problem in the world , now accentuated by the pandemic ?
VIJAY PRASHAD : Amy , good to be with you .
I couldn ’ t be happier that the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for Peace , because this hunger pandemic is paralyzing perhaps 2.7 billion people .
You know , we have seen an escalation of hunger .
Nobody should go to sleep hungry at night .
And the World Food Programme , the U.N. ’ s Food and Agricultural Organization , they have been struggling to tackle this .
What could only make me happier than this , Amy , is if next year the Cuban doctors win the Nobel Peace Prize .
That would be the best two years in a row for the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is very significant .
It was there , as David Beasley correctly put it , before the pandemic .
There ’ s been an increase in agrobusiness , moving cash crops and displacing small farmers , you know , who produce most of the world ’ s food .
This creates a great crisis in the countryside , long before the pandemic .
During the pandemic , Amy , I don ’ t know if you saw this , but in Guatemala , in Guatemala City , in fact , people were flying @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are hungry , ” as if in surrender .
And David Beasley told the U.N. Security Council we can not let the world population surrender .
Speaking of surrender , of course , he mentioned Yemen in his remarks .
The World Food Programme , Food and Agriculture , other U.N. humanitarian organizations say that half of Yemen ’ s 28 million people are in famine conditions .
This includes almost 10 million children , in a war that Saudi Arabia , United Arab Emirates , backed by arms suppliers from the United @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on , unrelenting war against the Yemeni people , half the population in hunger .
And you add to that , of course , the sanctions situation .
You know , when the Nobel committee chairwoman said that you shouldn ’ t use hunger as a weapon in conflict , the U.N. special rapporteur on the right to food has several times said — several times — that the sanctions against Iran , the sanctions against Venezuela , they are tantamount to collective punishment .
In fact , the U.N. special rapporteur says @ @ @ @ @ @ @ starvation because of the sanctions , unilateral sanctions , placed by the United States government .
Nothing makes me happier that the issue of hunger , which should be abolished in the modern world , is out there because of this prize .
It ’ s a really significant day for all those on the frontlines trying to make sure that people are fed daily .
AMY GOODMAN : And , of course , it ’ s a very significant response to yesterday , though it was chosen well before , when the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ new sanctions on Iran ’ s financial sector , despite opposition from European countries , who warn the move could have devastating humanitarian consequences amidst the pandemic and ongoing sanctions .
Critics say the new move will likely shut off channels Iran uses to import food and medicine .
The foreign minister , Javad Zarif , called it a “ crime against humanity.
” VIJAY PRASHAD : This is a crime against humanity , certainly .
And there is ample evidence for that .
But it ’ s also extraordinarily cruel , Amy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ cruelty of it needs to be underlined .
This is a moral issue as much as it ’ s a legal issue , you know , in the framework of international law .
It ’ s immoral .
People should be outraged by the cruelty of this action .
I mean , we are seeing these sanctions used to punish people , medicines not able to enter Iran , planes not willing to fly in because they ’ re afraid of secondary sanctions .
I mean , this is precisely what the World @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the main difficulties , is they can ’ t get transport into countries .
You know , they couldn ’ t get into the main port in Yemen that was being bombed .
Transportation is a real challenge .
And you ’ ve got to say that the people in these U.N. agencies , it ’ s not just the World Food Programme , not just the Food and Agriculture Organization world ; it ’ s the World Health Organization , it ’ s UNESCO , it ’ s UNICEF .
There @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is going after these U.N. agencies .
And , you know , I shouldn ’ t be the one , Amy , explaining why the U.S. government is going after these agencies .
I ’ d like to see the administration of the United States explain to the world why they are sanctioning , why they are going after agencies like the U.N. Children ’ s Fund .
You know , what is their problem with the World Health Organization in the midst of a pandemic ?
It ’ s really quite heartbreaking @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Washington , D.C. AMY GOODMAN : And finally , Vijay Prashad , the connection between hunger in the world and climate change ?
You had the vice president of the United States , Mike Pence , in his debate with Kamala Harris , who President Trump has just called a “ monster ” and a “ communist ” — when he was asked about climate change , he said , “ Yes , the climate is changing.
” VIJAY PRASHAD : What a ridiculous statement , Amy .
I would like to take @ @ @ @ @ @ @ through the Sahel .
I would like to take him to Burkina Faso .
I would like to take him to Niger , to Chad .
I ’ d like to show him how the Sahara Desert is moving southwards .
I ’ d like to show him the impact of desert locusts , which David Beasley mentioned .
I want to show him what this means to people who can not break the soil and grow food in that part of the world .
And when they try — and this is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the 1980s tried to bring cooperative farming to Burkina Faso , there was a coup against him , engineered with the active participation of the French intelligence services and , most likely , with the CIA .
These are goodhearted people trying to bring good into the world .
They get overthrown .
And these people who are now in charge and unwilling to look reality in the eye and say , “ Yes , something very significant is happening .
The climate has changed in a very deleterious way .
We must @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they are not serious people , Amy .
They seem , to me , driven by a streak of cruelty , which breaks my heart .
AMY GOODMAN : And finally , you mentioned Yemen , but the connection between war in Yemen and this massive hunger , the U.S.-supported Saudi-UAE war on the people of Yemen , with the — most recently , Jared Kushner working a deal with UAE to give them F-35 fighter planes , something that had been forbidden for years ?
VIJAY PRASHAD : The U.N. Secretary-General António @ @ @ @ @ @ @ pandemic , begged the world ’ s belligerents , really , begged them to have a ceasefire .
And he had Yemen directly in his sights .
He wanted that war in Yemen to be stopped for the duration , at least , of the pandemic , if not forever .
And , you know , it ’ s a really hypocritical thing that you have the British arms agencies , the companies like BAE Systems , the British government , the American government continuing to arm the United Arab Emirates and Saudi @ @ @ @ @ @ @ support in this ruthless war , which is driving , as I said , 10 million children to starvation in Yemen .
Something has to be done about it .
The United Nations has done all it can .
These countries simply feel that they have no check on them .
And it ’ s about time the population of the United States and the population of the United Kingdom stand up and say , “ Not in our name , ” Because this is right now happening in the name of every @ @ @ @ @ @ @ every citizen of the United Kingdom .
AMY GOODMAN : Vijay Prashad , I want to thank you so much for being with us , director of Tricontinental : Institute for Social Research , author of many books , his latest just out , Washington Bullets : A History of the CIA , Coups , and Assassinations .
We ’ ll have you back on to talk about that .
Coming up , we look at what ’ s happening in Armenia and Azerbaijan .
Both sides have just agreed to hold talks @ @ @ @ @ @ @

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
Shortly before we went to broadcast this morning, this year’s Nobel Peace Prize was announced.
BERIT REISS-ANDERSEN: The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided to award the Nobel Peace Prize for 2020 to the World Food Programme for its efforts to combat hunger, for its contribution to bettering conditions for peace in conflict-affected areas, and for acting as a driving force in efforts to prevent the use of hunger as a weapon of war and conflict.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s the Norwegian Nobel Committee chairwoman announcing the 2020 Nobel Peace Prize in Oslo at 5 a.m. Eastern Time this morning. The World Food Programme is the United Nations’ largest specialized agency, the world’s biggest humanitarian group addressing hunger. Last year, it provided assistance in 88 countries to close to 100 million people. In April, its director, David Beasley, told the U.N. Security Council the number of people worldwide experiencing severe hunger could double to 265 million unless urgent steps are taken.
DAVID BEASLEY: In my conversations with world leaders over the past many months, before the coronavirus even became an issue, I was saying that 2020 would be facing the worst humanitarian crisis since World War II for a variety of reasons, such as the war in Syria, Yemen; the deepening crises in places like South Sudan and, as Jan Egeland, I know, will no doubt set out, about Burkina Faso and the Central Sahel region; the desert locust swarms in Africa, as the Director General Qu highlighted in his remarks; and more frequent natural disasters and changing weather patterns that we’re experiencing; the economic crisis in Lebanon, which is impacting millions of Syrian refugees; DRC, Sudan, Ethiopia — and the list goes on. We’re already facing a perfect storm. So, today, with COVID-19, I want to stress that we’re not only facing a global health pandemic, but also a global humanitarian catastrophe.
AMY GOODMAN: That was David Beasley, the former South Carolina governor, is now head of the World Food Programme, speaking to the United Nations Security Council earlier this year.
For more, we’re joined by Vijay Prashad, director of the Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research, author of The Poorer Nations: A Possible History of the Global South and many other books, including his latest, Washington Bullets: A History of the CIA, Coups, and Assassinations.
Vijay, welcome back to Democracy Now! Can you respond to this latest announcement, and talk about the issue of global hunger, already a catastrophic problem in the world, now accentuated by the pandemic?
VIJAY PRASHAD: Amy, good to be with you.
I couldn’t be happier that the World Food Programme won the Nobel Prize for Peace, because this hunger pandemic is paralyzing perhaps 2.7 billion people. You know, we have seen an escalation of hunger. Nobody should go to sleep hungry at night. And the World Food Programme, the U.N.’s Food and Agricultural Organization, they have been struggling to tackle this.
What could only make me happier than this, Amy, is if next year the Cuban doctors win the Nobel Peace Prize. That would be the best two years in a row for the Nobel Peace Prize.
The hunger issue is very significant. It was there, as David Beasley correctly put it, before the pandemic. There’s been an increase in agrobusiness, moving cash crops and displacing small farmers, you know, who produce most of the world’s food. This creates a great crisis in the countryside, long before the pandemic.
During the pandemic, Amy, I don’t know if you saw this, but in Guatemala, in Guatemala City, in fact, people were flying white flags to say, “We are hungry,” as if in surrender. And David Beasley told the U.N. Security Council we cannot let the world population surrender.
Speaking of surrender, of course, he mentioned Yemen in his remarks. The World Food Programme, Food and Agriculture, other U.N. humanitarian organizations say that half of Yemen’s 28 million people are in famine conditions. This includes almost 10 million children, in a war that Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, backed by arms suppliers from the United States, the United Kingdom and so on, unrelenting war against the Yemeni people, half the population in hunger.
And you add to that, of course, the sanctions situation. You know, when the Nobel committee chairwoman said that you shouldn’t use hunger as a weapon in conflict, the U.N. special rapporteur on the right to food has several times said — several times — that the sanctions against Iran, the sanctions against Venezuela, they are tantamount to collective punishment. In fact, the U.N. special rapporteur says that Venezuela is on the brink of starvation because of the sanctions, unilateral sanctions, placed by the United States government.
Nothing makes me happier that the issue of hunger, which should be abolished in the modern world, is out there because of this prize. It’s a really significant day for all those on the frontlines trying to make sure that people are fed daily.
AMY GOODMAN: And, of course, it’s a very significant response to yesterday, though it was chosen well before, when the Trump administration announced it’s imposed new sanctions on Iran’s financial sector, despite opposition from European countries, who warn the move could have devastating humanitarian consequences amidst the pandemic and ongoing sanctions. Critics say the new move will likely shut off channels Iran uses to import food and medicine. The foreign minister, Javad Zarif, called it a “crime against humanity.”
VIJAY PRASHAD: This is a crime against humanity, certainly. And there is ample evidence for that. But it’s also extraordinarily cruel, Amy. I mean, I think the cruelty of it needs to be underlined. This is a moral issue as much as it’s a legal issue, you know, in the framework of international law. It’s immoral. People should be outraged by the cruelty of this action.
I mean, we are seeing these sanctions used to punish people, medicines not able to enter Iran, planes not willing to fly in because they’re afraid of secondary sanctions. I mean, this is precisely what the World Food Programme has been finding as one of the main difficulties, is they can’t get transport into countries. You know, they couldn’t get into the main port in Yemen that was being bombed. Transportation is a real challenge.
And you’ve got to say that the people in these U.N. agencies, it’s not just the World Food Programme, not just the Food and Agriculture Organization world; it’s the World Health Organization, it’s UNESCO, it’s UNICEF. There’s a reason the U.S. government is going after these U.N. agencies. And, you know, I shouldn’t be the one, Amy, explaining why the U.S. government is going after these agencies. I’d like to see the administration of the United States explain to the world why they are sanctioning, why they are going after agencies like the U.N. Children’s Fund. You know, what is their problem with the World Health Organization in the midst of a pandemic? It’s really quite heartbreaking to see this cruel policy emanating from Washington, D.C.
AMY GOODMAN: And finally, Vijay Prashad, the connection between hunger in the world and climate change? You had the vice president of the United States, Mike Pence, in his debate with Kamala Harris, who President Trump has just called a “monster” and a “communist” — when he was asked about climate change, he said, “Yes, the climate is changing.”
VIJAY PRASHAD: What a ridiculous statement, Amy. I would like to take Vice President Mike Pence on a journey through the Sahel. I would like to take him to Burkina Faso. I would like to take him to Niger, to Chad. I’d like to show him how the Sahara Desert is moving southwards. I’d like to show him the impact of desert locusts, which David Beasley mentioned. I want to show him what this means to people who cannot break the soil and grow food in that part of the world.
And when they try — and this is very significant — when Thomas Sankara in the 1980s tried to bring cooperative farming to Burkina Faso, there was a coup against him, engineered with the active participation of the French intelligence services and, most likely, with the CIA. These are goodhearted people trying to bring good into the world. They get overthrown.
And these people who are now in charge and unwilling to look reality in the eye and say, “Yes, something very significant is happening. The climate has changed in a very deleterious way. We must do something to reverse that,” they are not serious people, Amy. They seem, to me, driven by a streak of cruelty, which breaks my heart.
AMY GOODMAN: And finally, you mentioned Yemen, but the connection between war in Yemen and this massive hunger, the U.S.-supported Saudi-UAE war on the people of Yemen, with the — most recently, Jared Kushner working a deal with UAE to give them F-35 fighter planes, something that had been forbidden for years?
VIJAY PRASHAD: The U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres, at the start of the pandemic, begged the world’s belligerents, really, begged them to have a ceasefire. And he had Yemen directly in his sights. He wanted that war in Yemen to be stopped for the duration, at least, of the pandemic, if not forever.
And, you know, it’s a really hypocritical thing that you have the British arms agencies, the companies like BAE Systems, the British government, the American government continuing to arm the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, continuing to give them logistical support in this ruthless war, which is driving, as I said, 10 million children to starvation in Yemen.
Something has to be done about it. The United Nations has done all it can. These countries simply feel that they have no check on them. And it’s about time the population of the United States and the population of the United Kingdom stand up and say, “Not in our name,” Because this is right now happening in the name of every U.S. citizen and in the name of every citizen of the United Kingdom.
AMY GOODMAN: Vijay Prashad, I want to thank you so much for being with us, director of Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research, author of many books, his latest just out, Washington Bullets: A History of the CIA, Coups, and Assassinations. We’ll have you back on to talk about that.
Coming up, we look at what’s happening in Armenia and Azerbaijan. Both sides have just agreed to hold talks in Moscow. Stay with us.