democracynow--2020-12-03--Indian Farmers Lead Historic Strike & Protests Against Narendra Modi, Neoliberalism & Inequality

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Nermeen Shaikh , as we turn to India , where tens of thousands of farmers are converging on the capital city of New Delhi by tractor and on foot to demand the repeal of new laws that deregulate agricultural markets .
The Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi says the measures give farmers more freedom to set their own prices and sell directly to corporate buyers .
But opponents say the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and roll back key labor and crop price protections that could have a devastating impact on the livelihood of farmers .
Agriculture is the leading source of income for more than half of India ’ s 1.3 billion population .
The ongoing protests come after a nationwide demonstration Thursday , when an estimated 250 million workers , farmers and their allies joined in what ’ s believed to be the largest organized strike in history anywhere in the world .
Organizers say tens of thousands of demonstrators have now gathered at each of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in cold winter conditions , and more farmers are on their way .
Police have put up barriers to block them from coming into the center of the city .
This is one of the farmers protesting .
AMY GOODMAN : Today Indian government officials are meeting with farmer representatives for a fourth time , and farmer union leaders have invited Agriculture Minister Narendra Singh Tomar to their protest site .
This comes as COVID rages through India , which has reported more cases than any country in the world outside the United @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to Mumbai to speak with P. Sainath , longtime Indian journalist , founder of People ’ s Archive of Rural India , or PARI .
It ’ s great to have you back again .
You used to write for The Hindu and used to write for The Times of India .
You ’ re an award-winning journalist , but felt that the majority of people were not being heard , and you wanted to give voice to the voiceless .
Talk about this most significant protest , the largest , it ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in world history , P. Sainath .
P. SAINATH : On the 26th of October , Amy , all the workers in the country , in many , many gigantic public sector units , in power , in transport , in a number of public sector organizations , and across the banks , the insurance companies , and workers from other set of departments ceased work and went out .
And it ’ s interesting .
They were protesting against a new set of labor codes , absolutely vicious codes , that have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ working class out on the streets endorsed the demands of the farmers at Delhi .
So it was a tremendous show of unity and solidarity , when millions of workers were saying , “ We are with the farmers.
” So , that was one extraordinary thing .
That was on the 26th of October .
The farmers now , I think that maybe there ’ s 200,000 to a quarter of million of them on five points on the Delhi border .
The government approach to them is actually extremely callous and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ one hand , they ’ re putting out some stuff for the media saying , you know , they ’ re talking to them , they want to solve this problem .
On the other , the prime minister is making speeches in his own constituency that this entire thing is a conspiracy by the opposition .
Now , if you need to know how deep this problem is biting in the farmers , as of yesterday , Punjab , which is a famous state for athletics in India , the Olympians , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ multiple medals at the Commonwealth , National Games and have participated in the Olympics , are planning to throw their medals back at the government on the 5th of December .
Many artists and poets and others are returning their civilian awards .
So , this is slated for the 5th .
And the government has no sign of shame about it at all .
It is trying to look like the reasonable host .
At the same time , it has put up barricades , barbed wire .
It has dug 10-feet-by-10-feet @ @ @ @ @ @ @ these farmers from reaching Delhi , and have used water cannon and tear gas — water cannon in the coldest winter that Delhi has had .
It had its coldest day in 70 years two days ago , and you ’ re using water cannons on people , several of whom , those farmers , are in their late sixties and early seventies .
On that kind of person , you are using water cannons and telling the — and you have a captive media , of course , that makes it look @ @ @ @ @ @ @ wrong in the way they are talking to the farmers : “ These are all hicks and brutal yokels .
They just need to be spoken to sweetly , ” whereas the laws that they are protesting , Amy , are devastating .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Well , P. Sainath , could you talk about this protest , these protests , in the wider economic context in India ?
Unemployment is now at 27 % , which is unprecedented in the country .
As we mentioned earlier , almost 60 % of India @ @ @ @ @ @ @ agriculture as their main source of livelihood .
In just two years , from 2018 to 2019 , over 20,000 farmers died by suicide .
Meanwhile , a billionaire , the richest man in India , Mukesh Ambani , has made $ 12 million an hour since the lockdown began as a result of the pandemic in March .
Could you talk about the broader context of these protests ?
P. SAINATH : Well , the entire protests , driven by a deepening agrarian crisis , are very fundamentally tied to the larger @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
In just four months of the pandemic , just up to July , not only Mr. Ambani , but the entire bunch of Indian billionaires , dollar billionaires — there ’ s about 120 of them — added 35 % to their wealth , one-third to their already considerable wealth , and it ’ s now around $ 485 billion cumulatively .
Mr. Ambani went from being the richest Indian and the 19th richest person in the world ; in the last year , year and a half , he has made @ @ @ @ @ @ @ At the same time , Amy , there are new papers , studies showing us 76 % of the rural population — that is , three-fourths of the rural population — can not afford a nutritious meal .
They can not afford a basic nutritious diet , even if they spend — even if they spent two-thirds of their income on food .
Now , apart from that , even if , say , all rural Indians spent 100 % of their income on food and nothing else — no transport , health @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ t spend anything of that — it would still mean 63.3 % can not afford a nutritious diet , if they spent every last paisa they earned , I mean , they got as income .
So you ’ re seeing these unbelievable gaps , phenomenal gaps .
India ranks fourth or fifth in the list of dollar billionaires in the world , and 129th on the U.N. Human Development Index .
And the pandemic has provided — you need to understand one very important thing about the protests .
And for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ kind of mischief was played in the laws .
Three major laws have been passed in Parliament which devastate the farmers , and you mentioned them as you introduced the subject .
Two days later , when the opposition walked out in protest , they rammed through four labor laws codifying 29 existing complex legislations , and made them into four and rammed it through .
Now , the question is : Why did they feel the need to pass these laws at the height of the pandemic ?
Mr. Modi had a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a big majority .
He will have it for two , three years after the pandemic .
The reasoning was , these blokes are on their knees now .
They can ’ t organize .
They can ’ t hit back .
And in fact , many leading neoliberal intellectuals , economists and journalists , editors , incited the government , saying , “ Never waste a good crisis , ” paraphrasing Winston Churchill , by the way , badly .
“ Never waste a good crisis .
This is India ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ embraced the world of neoliberalism .
“ This is the time to ram through aggressive , next-generation reforms.
” And the government , believing that , went for this action , not understanding the resolve of these farmers , who have come back massively at the government .
Just one clause I want to read you from the laws .
You will not believe — I don ’ t know .
You can tell me if you ’ ve ever read laws in a democratic nation which have a clause like this .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ laws , you know , on prices , on contract farming , on essential commodities , they have included this clause in one of the most important of these laws .
It says , “ No suit , no prosecution or other legal proceedings shall lie against the central government or the state government or any officer of the central government or any officer of the state government or any other person in respect of anything ” — [ read corporations ] — I mean , “ read corporations ” in brackets — @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of anything which is done in good faith or intended to be done in good faith under this act .
And no civil court shall have jurisdictions to entertain any suit or proceedings in respect of any matter connected to the actions under this law.
” Have you read many laws like that in a democratic country ?
So , they have taken with the legal recourse of the citizen .
And I ’ ve been yelling of this that it ’ s not just the farmers who are affected .
Nobody else @ @ @ @ @ @ @ dismantling the right to legal recourse .
The Bar Council of Delhi , you know , the capital city — the Bar Council of Delhi yesterday wrote to the president of India , saying , “ This is an extremely dangerous thing that ’ s happening .
You ’ re taking away the fundamental rights of the citizen to move the courts when in distress.
” So , this is the kind of stuff .
And at the same time , the inequalities are deepening .
The unemployment figures , that , Amy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ down as some amount of opening up happens , but people are returning to much worse conditions as workers .
We have tampered with the gold standard of labor law , which used to be eight hours a day .
Now you can have 12 hours a day without overtime for the last four hours .
It ’ ll be at a pro-rate , I think .
You are having a massive , massive class divide in what ’ s happening , with the top 0.01 % adding phenomenally to its wealth and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ bottom end .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to go to a clip of Birendra Singh , as we talk about COVID and the effect of the pandemic on India .
He used to run a food stall in Andhra Pradesh .
He explained to your news organization , to PARI , the People ’ s Archive of Rural India , how his family has been affected by the lockdown .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : So , P. Sainath , could you talk about what the situation with lockdown in India is , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from the coronavirus is apparently reportedly much lower than the mortality rate certainly than here in the U.S. , but also Europe ?
P. SAINATH : It may be .
It may be lower than that of the U.S. , but the numbers we have on COVID-19 , on infections , on the fatality rates , are extremely suspect , barring one or two states which are very good at following up , tracking , tracing , like a state like Kerala , which has done much better .
And a hell of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ mean , we are doing very low levels of testing .
And you will get lower numbers .
Second , much of the testing , the bulk of the testing in many states , is done on rapid antigen basis , not on the RT-PCR .
And the rapid antigen has — as you know , the RAT tests have a very high proportion of false negatives .
So we don ’ t really know .
And I don ’ t buy this idea of being one of the lowest fatality rates in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of one or two states which have a much better health infrastructure and a much better system of public health than a country , as a whole , which spends 1.28 % of its gross domestic product on health and , two , most of the expenditure on health is out of pocket by poor , ordinary Indians .
In fact , the last three surveys on health in the National Sample Survey have shown the number of Indians not seeking medical attention purely for financial reasons has doubled in 20 years .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ to buy into this .
The second part of your question — I mean , the second aspect of your question , Nermeen , is that there are an incredible number of non-COVID deaths which have happened because of the complete collapse of the health infrastructure and the total focus of what little there is on COVID , so people dying of cardiac arrest , people dying of diabetic and stroke , and people dying of a number of other diseases , curable , treatable diseases .
That number is surging massively .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ , have lost 14 friends and acquaintances whom I knew very well .
Just one of them — just one of them died of COVID .
OK ?
Many of the others , their families took them from hospital to hospital to hospital to try and get admission , and couldn ’ t .
And also — AMY GOODMAN : P. Sainath , we ’ re going to have to leave it there , but I want to thank you so much for being with us .
And , of course , we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in Mumbai , India .
P. Sainath is the award-winning Indian journalist , founder of People ’ s Archive of Rural India , or PARI .
Very happy birthday to Emily Gosselin !
Tomorrow , Paul Farmer .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Nermeen Shaikh .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh, as we turn to India, where tens of thousands of farmers are converging on the capital city of New Delhi by tractor and on foot to demand the repeal of new laws that deregulate agricultural markets. The Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi says the measures give farmers more freedom to set their own prices and sell directly to corporate buyers. But opponents say the neoliberal policies are a boon to corporations and roll back key labor and crop price protections that could have a devastating impact on the livelihood of farmers. Agriculture is the leading source of income for more than half of India’s 1.3 billion population.
The ongoing protests come after a nationwide demonstration Thursday, when an estimated 250 million workers, farmers and their allies joined in what’s believed to be the largest organized strike in history anywhere in the world. Organizers say tens of thousands of demonstrators have now gathered at each of New Delhi’s three borders, in cold winter conditions, and more farmers are on their way. Police have put up barriers to block them from coming into the center of the city. This is one of the farmers protesting.
FARMER PROTESTER: [translated] India is my country, and Delhi is the capital of my country. I am not even allowed to enter my capital city. This is in spite of farmers never doing any hooliganism. Our whole movement has been peaceful. They also showered us with water cannons. We were also beaten. But no farmers retaliated violently.
AMY GOODMAN: Today Indian government officials are meeting with farmer representatives for a fourth time, and farmer union leaders have invited Agriculture Minister Narendra Singh Tomar to their protest site.
This comes as COVID rages through India, which has reported more cases than any country in the world outside the United States.
For more, we go to Mumbai to speak with P. Sainath, longtime Indian journalist, founder of People’s Archive of Rural India, or PARI.
It’s great to have you back again. You used to write for The Hindu and used to write for The Times of India. You’re an award-winning journalist, but felt that the majority of people were not being heard, and you wanted to give voice to the voiceless. Talk about this most significant protest, the largest, it’s believed, the largest organized protest in world history, P. Sainath.
P. SAINATH: On the 26th of October, Amy, all the workers in the country, in many, many gigantic public sector units, in power, in transport, in a number of public sector organizations, and across the banks, the insurance companies, and workers from other set of departments ceased work and went out. And it’s interesting. They were protesting against a new set of labor codes, absolutely vicious codes, that have been rammed through Parliament. But the working class out on the streets endorsed the demands of the farmers at Delhi. So it was a tremendous show of unity and solidarity, when millions of workers were saying, “We are with the farmers.” So, that was one extraordinary thing. That was on the 26th of October.
The farmers now, I think that maybe there’s 200,000 to a quarter of million of them on five points on the Delhi border. The government approach to them is actually extremely callous and very, very aggressive. On the one hand, they’re putting out some stuff for the media saying, you know, they’re talking to them, they want to solve this problem. On the other, the prime minister is making speeches in his own constituency that this entire thing is a conspiracy by the opposition.
Now, if you need to know how deep this problem is biting in the farmers, as of yesterday, Punjab, which is a famous state for athletics in India, the Olympians, those athletes of Punjab who have won multiple medals at the Commonwealth, National Games and have participated in the Olympics, are planning to throw their medals back at the government on the 5th of December. Many artists and poets and others are returning their civilian awards. So, this is slated for the 5th.
And the government has no sign of shame about it at all. It is trying to look like the reasonable host. At the same time, it has put up barricades, barbed wire. It has dug 10-feet-by-10-feet trenches in the national highways to prevent these farmers from reaching Delhi, and have used water cannon and tear gas — water cannon in the coldest winter that Delhi has had. It had its coldest day in 70 years two days ago, and you’re using water cannons on people, several of whom, those farmers, are in their late sixties and early seventies. On that kind of person, you are using water cannons and telling the — and you have a captive media, of course, that makes it look like the government is just getting it wrong in the way they are talking to the farmers: “These are all hicks and brutal yokels. They just need to be spoken to sweetly,” whereas the laws that they are protesting, Amy, are devastating.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, P. Sainath, could you talk about this protest, these protests, in the wider economic context in India? Unemployment is now at 27%, which is unprecedented in the country. As we mentioned earlier, almost 60% of India’s 1.3 billion people rely on agriculture as their main source of livelihood. In just two years, from 2018 to 2019, over 20,000 farmers died by suicide. Meanwhile, a billionaire, the richest man in India, Mukesh Ambani, has made $12 million an hour since the lockdown began as a result of the pandemic in March. Could you talk about the broader context of these protests?
P. SAINATH: Well, the entire protests, driven by a deepening agrarian crisis, are very fundamentally tied to the larger structural inequalities that you are pointing to. In just four months of the pandemic, just up to July, not only Mr. Ambani, but the entire bunch of Indian billionaires, dollar billionaires — there’s about 120 of them — added 35% to their wealth, one-third to their already considerable wealth, and it’s now around $485 billion cumulatively. Mr. Ambani went from being the richest Indian and the 19th richest person in the world; in the last year, year and a half, he has made it up to rank number four.
At the same time, Amy, there are new papers, studies showing us 76% of the rural population — that is, three-fourths of the rural population — cannot afford a nutritious meal. They cannot afford a basic nutritious diet, even if they spend — even if they spent two-thirds of their income on food. Now, apart from that, even if, say, all rural Indians spent 100% of their income on food and nothing else — no transport, health, education, rent; they didn’t spend anything of that — it would still mean 63.3% cannot afford a nutritious diet, if they spent every last paisa they earned, I mean, they got as income. So you’re seeing these unbelievable gaps, phenomenal gaps. India ranks fourth or fifth in the list of dollar billionaires in the world, and 129th on the U.N. Human Development Index.
And the pandemic has provided — you need to understand one very important thing about the protests. And for that, you need to understand what kind of mischief was played in the laws. Three major laws have been passed in Parliament which devastate the farmers, and you mentioned them as you introduced the subject. Two days later, when the opposition walked out in protest, they rammed through four labor laws codifying 29 existing complex legislations, and made them into four and rammed it through.
Now, the question is: Why did they feel the need to pass these laws at the height of the pandemic? Mr. Modi had a majority before the pandemic. He has a big majority. He will have it for two, three years after the pandemic. The reasoning was, these blokes are on their knees now. They can’t organize. They can’t hit back. And in fact, many leading neoliberal intellectuals, economists and journalists, editors, incited the government, saying, “Never waste a good crisis,” paraphrasing Winston Churchill, by the way, badly. “Never waste a good crisis. This is India’s second 1991 moment” — when we embraced the world of neoliberalism. “This is the time to ram through aggressive, next-generation reforms.” And the government, believing that, went for this action, not understanding the resolve of these farmers, who have come back massively at the government.
Just one clause I want to read you from the laws. You will not believe — I don’t know. You can tell me if you’ve ever read laws in a democratic nation which have a clause like this. Not only have they rammed through these laws, you know, on prices, on contract farming, on essential commodities, they have included this clause in one of the most important of these laws. It says, “No suit, no prosecution or other legal proceedings shall lie against the central government or the state government or any officer of the central government or any officer of the state government or any other person in respect of anything” — [read corporations] — I mean, “read corporations” in brackets — “or any other person in respect of anything which is done in good faith or intended to be done in good faith under this act. And no civil court shall have jurisdictions to entertain any suit or proceedings in respect of any matter connected to the actions under this law.” Have you read many laws like that in a democratic country?
So, they have taken with the legal recourse of the citizen. And I’ve been yelling of this that it’s not just the farmers who are affected. Nobody else can sue, either. They are dismantling the right to legal recourse. The Bar Council of Delhi, you know, the capital city — the Bar Council of Delhi yesterday wrote to the president of India, saying, “This is an extremely dangerous thing that’s happening. You’re taking away the fundamental rights of the citizen to move the courts when in distress.” So, this is the kind of stuff.
And at the same time, the inequalities are deepening. The unemployment figures, that, Amy, I mean, they have come down as some amount of opening up happens, but people are returning to much worse conditions as workers. We have tampered with the gold standard of labor law, which used to be eight hours a day. Now you can have 12 hours a day without overtime for the last four hours. It’ll be at a pro-rate, I think. You are having a massive, massive class divide in what’s happening, with the top 0.01% adding phenomenally to its wealth and a huge amount of distress at the bottom end.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to go to a clip of Birendra Singh, as we talk about COVID and the effect of the pandemic on India. He used to run a food stall in Andhra Pradesh. He explained to your news organization, to PARI, the People’s Archive of Rural India, how his family has been affected by the lockdown.
BIRENDRA SINGH: [translated] Before the lockdown, our days would go like this: We would wake up at 4:00 in the morning and start to make puris. Four hours would go in just making these puris. From 3:00 in the afternoon to 10:00 at night, we used to do business. By 11:00 in the night, I would reach home. Then, from the next day, this same work, Sirji. Before, work was going well. We were eating properly. I could take care of my parents, too. Since the lockdown began, I have been in deep trouble.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: So, P. Sainath, could you talk about what the situation with lockdown in India is, and the fact that the mortality rate there from the coronavirus is apparently reportedly much lower than the mortality rate certainly than here in the U.S., but also Europe?
P. SAINATH: It may be. It may be lower than that of the U.S., but the numbers we have on COVID-19, on infections, on the fatality rates, are extremely suspect, barring one or two states which are very good at following up, tracking, tracing, like a state like Kerala, which has done much better. And a hell of a lot of the testing — I mean, we are doing very low levels of testing. And you will get lower numbers. Second, much of the testing, the bulk of the testing in many states, is done on rapid antigen basis, not on the RT-PCR. And the rapid antigen has — as you know, the RAT tests have a very high proportion of false negatives. So we don’t really know. And I don’t buy this idea of being one of the lowest fatality rates in the world. It’s true of one or two states which have a much better health infrastructure and a much better system of public health than a country, as a whole, which spends 1.28% of its gross domestic product on health and, two, most of the expenditure on health is out of pocket by poor, ordinary Indians. In fact, the last three surveys on health in the National Sample Survey have shown the number of Indians not seeking medical attention purely for financial reasons has doubled in 20 years. So, I’m not going to buy into this.
The second part of your question — I mean, the second aspect of your question, Nermeen, is that there are an incredible number of non-COVID deaths which have happened because of the complete collapse of the health infrastructure and the total focus of what little there is on COVID, so people dying of cardiac arrest, people dying of diabetic and stroke, and people dying of a number of other diseases, curable, treatable diseases. That number is surging massively. I, myself, since April 5, have lost 14 friends and acquaintances whom I knew very well. Just one of them — just one of them died of COVID. OK? Many of the others, their families took them from hospital to hospital to hospital to try and get admission, and couldn’t. And also —
AMY GOODMAN: P. Sainath, we’re going to have to leave it there, but I want to thank you so much for being with us. And, of course, we’ll be visiting with you again in Mumbai, India. P. Sainath is the award-winning Indian journalist, founder of People’s Archive of Rural India, or PARI.
Very happy birthday to Emily Gosselin! Tomorrow, Paul Farmer. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.


democracynow--2020-12-03--Ethnic Cleansing Feared as Ethiopia Wages War on Tigray Region Amid Communication Blackout

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Nermeen Shaikh .
The United Nations says it ’ s reached a deal with Ethiopia ’ s government to allow humanitarian access to the northern Tigray region and start providing aid to some 6 million people caught in the crossfire of the deadly conflict .
The U.N. has warned tens of thousands of Eritrean refugees in Tigray camps are running out of food .
The Ethiopian @ @ @ @ @ @ @ against regional forces a month ago , setting off a bloody conflict , adding to the already alarming number of displaced people and refugees in the country and neighboring nations like Sudan .
Ethiopia declared victory over the weekend after announcing it took control of the capital of Tigray , but the Tigray People ’ s Liberation Front say they ’ re continuing to fight .
Still with us , Nima Elbagir , award-winning senior international correspondent for CNN .
She ’ s right now based in London .
I ’ m sure @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the moment .
But , Nima , if you can explain what is happening both in Ethiopia and its effects on the surrounding area , like your home country of Sudan ?
NIMA ELBAGIR : In essence , I think the best way to understand what ’ s happening in Ethiopia is to consider it a conflict over power that has descended into potentially a form of ethnic cleansing .
So , you have the Tigray People ’ s Liberation Front , who themselves were in power in Ethiopia for decades .
Abiy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , the Oromo , and they have allied with many elements from within the Amhara .
This all sounds really complicated , but fundamentally it ’ s about who gets to rule , and how do you maintain that rule .
And how Abiy Ahmed seems to be choosing to maintain that rule is to wage war against the Tigray region .
He was forced , he says , to postpone elections because of the impact of COVID-19 on Ethiopia , but then he accused the Tigray People ’ s Liberation Front of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ all politics , essentially .
But what it ’ s meant is that the Tigray people say that they have been targeted based on the ethnic distinction on their ID cards .
So people are telling us that they ’ re being pulled over ; at best , jailed and detained , and at worst , being forced to flee into Sudan .
Prime Minister Ahmed says that not a single civilian was injured in all of this , in all of these weeks of fighting .
And what we ’ re hearing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on that Sudanese-Ethiopian border is that that ’ s just not true .
We have images of civilians who are injured , who have been hit by bullets .
One lady told us that she had to flee her home and was forced to give birth on the route , that they weren ’ t allowed to cross over into Sudan through the direct routes by the Ethiopian army .
So , on the back routes , that took her days to do a trip that should have taken hours , she eventually @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at the border by our teams and by the doctors .
Fortunately , wonderfully , her child survived , and so did she .
But that ’ s just one story and one of the only stories we ’ re able to hear , because Abiy Ahmed has instated a complete communications blackout , so it ’ s very hard to find out what ’ s actually going on inside Tigray .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : And meanwhile , Abiy Ahmed , of course , was just awarded the Nobel Peace Prize less than @ @ @ @ @ @ @ For finally signing a peace treaty with Eritrea .
And the irony is that as he signed that peace treaty , it allowed both him and Eritrea to unite against the common foe , the Tigray People ’ s Liberation Front .
So , in hindsight , for him to have won a Nobel Peace Prize for something that has enabled him to wage a war on an entire region , on 6 million people , is just — it ’ s appalling .
It ’ s appalling to think about .
NERMEEN @ @ @ @ @ @ @ mentioned , of course , that tens of thousands of refugees from Ethiopia , from the Tigray region , have fled into Sudan .
And this comes , of course , amidst the coronavirus outbreak in the country .
Just last month , the last democratically elected prime minister died from the virus after spending several weeks in a hospital in the United Arab Emirates .
Could you talk about what the situation is in Sudan with the pandemic , how many people have been infected , how many have died , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of vaccine reaching the country within the next several months ?
NIMA ELBAGIR : Well , in terms of a vaccine , the vaccines that have been approved so far or are in the fast track to be approved , the Moderna vaccine and the Pfizer vaccine , both of — the BioNTech vaccine — both of them need to be kept at minus-70 , so that , obviously is impractical .
It ’ s impossible in a country like Sudan .
In terms of hard data , we don ’ t have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of a substantial testing regime .
I mean , there ’ s not really a substantial testing regime here in the U.K. or even in the U.S. , so imagine what that ’ s like in Sudan .
But anecdotally , I alone know maybe 10 people who have died of COVID or COVID-related complications in the last few months .
So I can only imagine what that actually looks like on the ground .
And the economic effects of this , asking people to isolate when they are in subsistence farming or @ @ @ @ @ @ @ re asking them to starve .
So , people are just hoping against hope that the Oxford University vaccine , which can be kept , I think , at normal temperatures , that that finally comes online .
AMY GOODMAN : We ’ re speaking with Nima Elbagir , the award-winning senior international correspondent for CNN .
She is based in London .
And before we go , I want to ask you about this latest news that Britain has become the first country in the world to approve use of the Pfizer-BioNTech @ @ @ @ @ @ @ vaccine is 95 % effective at preventing COVID-19 in a large clinical trial .
Authorities said the first 800,000 doses will become available across Britain starting next week .
The British health minister , Matt Hancock , spoke earlier this week .
AMY GOODMAN : The U.K. has Europe ’ s highest COVID-19 death toll , nearing 60,000 , with over 1.6 million confirmed cases .
Nima , you ’ re in London .
If you can talk about Britain being the first to start to use this vaccine ?
It ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ course , for the United States , the head of the FDA has been called twice to the White House in the last two days , clearly because of Trump ’ s anger that the U.S. is not the first , but the EU expressing concern about how fast the U.K. is doing this .
You mentioned Sudan not being able to keep to Pfizer ’ s , what , 100 degrees below — 100 degrees Fahrenheit below zero temperatures .
Even that is preventing the vaccine , apparently , in your country @ @ @ @ @ @ @ nursing homes , because they can not figure out a way to keep it cold as all that and getting little bits of vaccines to different places .
NIMA ELBAGIR : Well , it seems that Prime Minister Boris Johnson and his government — I mean , they did this to themselves by being so quick to announce , “ Victory .
We won , ” and managing to goad the European Union into saying , “ Well , you won , because your public health body , the health body that governs @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the general public , reviewed less data , ” which I think was both astonishing for people here but also completely unsurprising , given the crisis of public confidence there has been in this government , both because of its handling of the entire crisis — our death toll is appalling — but also because of their willingness to turn anything into propaganda .
This was not a propaganda moment .
And all it seems to have done is cause the scientists to raise their head above the parapet in other countries and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ t be too happy about the ways that you went around it.
” But realistically , I think , in spite of that crisis of public health , pretty much almost everyone I ’ ve spoken to has said , “ Hey , we will be in that queue.
” There is such a desperation just to get back to any sense of normality , as I ’ m sure there is in the U.S. AMY GOODMAN : Nima , we want to thank you so much for being with us .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ for CNN , based in London .
Her recent investigative report on Nigeria is headlined “ 'They pointed their guns at us and started shooting ' : How a bloody night of bullets and brutality quashed a young protest movement.
” Next up , we go to India , where 250 million farmers , workers and their allies recently joined in , in what ’ s believed to be the largest organized strike in world history .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.
The United Nations says it’s reached a deal with Ethiopia’s government to allow humanitarian access to the northern Tigray region and start providing aid to some 6 million people caught in the crossfire of the deadly conflict. The U.N. has warned tens of thousands of Eritrean refugees in Tigray camps are running out of food. The Ethiopian Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed launched military action against regional forces a month ago, setting off a bloody conflict, adding to the already alarming number of displaced people and refugees in the country and neighboring nations like Sudan. Ethiopia declared victory over the weekend after announcing it took control of the capital of Tigray, but the Tigray People’s Liberation Front say they’re continuing to fight.
Still with us, Nima Elbagir, award-winning senior international correspondent for CNN. She’s right now based in London.
I’m sure COVID is keeping you down there for the moment. But, Nima, if you can explain what is happening both in Ethiopia and its effects on the surrounding area, like your home country of Sudan?
NIMA ELBAGIR: In essence, I think the best way to understand what’s happening in Ethiopia is to consider it a conflict over power that has descended into potentially a form of ethnic cleansing. So, you have the Tigray People’s Liberation Front, who themselves were in power in Ethiopia for decades. Abiy Ahmed comes from a separate ethnic grouping, the Oromo, and they have allied with many elements from within the Amhara. This all sounds really complicated, but fundamentally it’s about who gets to rule, and how do you maintain that rule. And how Abiy Ahmed seems to be choosing to maintain that rule is to wage war against the Tigray region.
He was forced, he says, to postpone elections because of the impact of COVID-19 on Ethiopia, but then he accused the Tigray People’s Liberation Front of waging an internal war. This is all politics, essentially. But what it’s meant is that the Tigray people say that they have been targeted based on the ethnic distinction on their ID cards. So people are telling us that they’re being pulled over; at best, jailed and detained, and at worst, being forced to flee into Sudan.
Prime Minister Ahmed says that not a single civilian was injured in all of this, in all of these weeks of fighting. And what we’re hearing from our team that’s down on that Sudanese-Ethiopian border is that that’s just not true. We have images of civilians who are injured, who have been hit by bullets. One lady told us that she had to flee her home and was forced to give birth on the route, that they weren’t allowed to cross over into Sudan through the direct routes by the Ethiopian army. So, on the back routes, that took her days to do a trip that should have taken hours, she eventually gave birth. And she was met at the border by our teams and by the doctors. Fortunately, wonderfully, her child survived, and so did she. But that’s just one story and one of the only stories we’re able to hear, because Abiy Ahmed has instated a complete communications blackout, so it’s very hard to find out what’s actually going on inside Tigray.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And meanwhile, Abiy Ahmed, of course, was just awarded the Nobel Peace Prize less than a year ago.
NIMA ELBAGIR: For finally signing a peace treaty with Eritrea. And the irony is that as he signed that peace treaty, it allowed both him and Eritrea to unite against the common foe, the Tigray People’s Liberation Front. So, in hindsight, for him to have won a Nobel Peace Prize for something that has enabled him to wage a war on an entire region, on 6 million people, is just — it’s appalling. It’s appalling to think about.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Nima, you mentioned, of course, that tens of thousands of refugees from Ethiopia, from the Tigray region, have fled into Sudan. And this comes, of course, amidst the coronavirus outbreak in the country. Just last month, the last democratically elected prime minister died from the virus after spending several weeks in a hospital in the United Arab Emirates. Could you talk about what the situation is in Sudan with the pandemic, how many people have been infected, how many have died, and what the prospects are for any kind of vaccine reaching the country within the next several months?
NIMA ELBAGIR: Well, in terms of a vaccine, the vaccines that have been approved so far or are in the fast track to be approved, the Moderna vaccine and the Pfizer vaccine, both of — the BioNTech vaccine — both of them need to be kept at minus-70, so that, obviously is impractical. It’s impossible in a country like Sudan.
In terms of hard data, we don’t have any, because there is an absence of a substantial testing regime. I mean, there’s not really a substantial testing regime here in the U.K. or even in the U.S., so imagine what that’s like in Sudan. But anecdotally, I alone know maybe 10 people who have died of COVID or COVID-related complications in the last few months. So I can only imagine what that actually looks like on the ground.
And the economic effects of this, asking people to isolate when they are in subsistence farming or live day to day, you’re asking them to starve. So, people are just hoping against hope that the Oxford University vaccine, which can be kept, I think, at normal temperatures, that that finally comes online.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re speaking with Nima Elbagir, the award-winning senior international correspondent for CNN. She is based in London. And before we go, I want to ask you about this latest news that Britain has become the first country in the world to approve use of the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine. Pfizer has said the vaccine is 95% effective at preventing COVID-19 in a large clinical trial. Authorities said the first 800,000 doses will become available across Britain starting next week. The British health minister, Matt Hancock, spoke earlier this week.
MATT HANCOCK: We’ll start with those who are most vulnerable to coronavirus. … And then, once we’ve started to and protected the most vulnerable, it will help us all get back to normal and back to all the things that we love.
AMY GOODMAN: The U.K. has Europe’s highest COVID-19 death toll, nearing 60,000, with over 1.6 million confirmed cases. Nima, you’re in London. If you can talk about Britain being the first to start to use this vaccine? It’s raised a number of issues. Of course, for the United States, the head of the FDA has been called twice to the White House in the last two days, clearly because of Trump’s anger that the U.S. is not the first, but the EU expressing concern about how fast the U.K. is doing this. You mentioned Sudan not being able to keep to Pfizer’s, what, 100 degrees below — 100 degrees Fahrenheit below zero temperatures. Even that is preventing the vaccine, apparently, in your country, throughout Britain, of getting to nursing homes, because they cannot figure out a way to keep it cold as all that and getting little bits of vaccines to different places.
NIMA ELBAGIR: Well, it seems that Prime Minister Boris Johnson and his government — I mean, they did this to themselves by being so quick to announce, “Victory. We won,” and managing to goad the European Union into saying, “Well, you won, because your public health body, the health body that governs when vaccines or medications come online to the general public, reviewed less data,” which I think was both astonishing for people here but also completely unsurprising, given the crisis of public confidence there has been in this government, both because of its handling of the entire crisis — our death toll is appalling — but also because of their willingness to turn anything into propaganda. This was not a propaganda moment. And all it seems to have done is cause the scientists to raise their head above the parapet in other countries and say, “Well, I wouldn’t be too happy about the ways that you went around it.”
But realistically, I think, in spite of that crisis of public health, pretty much almost everyone I’ve spoken to has said, “Hey, we will be in that queue.” There is such a desperation just to get back to any sense of normality, as I’m sure there is in the U.S.
AMY GOODMAN: Nima, we want to thank you so much for being with us. Nima Elbagir, award-winning senior international correspondent for CNN, based in London. Her recent investigative report on Nigeria is headlined “'They pointed their guns at us and started shooting': How a bloody night of bullets and brutality quashed a young protest movement.”
Next up, we go to India, where 250 million farmers, workers and their allies recently joined in, in what’s believed to be the largest organized strike in world history. Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-12-03--A Massacre in Lagos: Nigerian Military Forced to Admit It Fired Live Rounds at Peaceful Protesters

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : We begin today ’ s show in Africa ’ s most populous country , in Nigeria .
The country has been stunned by a brutal massacre of more than 100 farmworkers by suspected members of the militant group Boko Haram .
On Saturday , armed men on motorcycles slaughtered people harvesting rice fields in a rural part of Borno State .
A survivor said the attackers , quote , “ engaged in murderous insanity , grabbing workers , tying them up and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the victims were reportedly beheaded .
No group has claimed responsibility .
Meanwhile , new revelations have come to light about a bloody government crackdown in Lagos , in Nigeria , which helped to quash a growing movement against police brutality .
A CNN investigation has exposed the Nigerian Army ’ s role in an attack on protesters in Lagos in October .
In a shocking display of violence , on October 20th , the Army opened fire on protesters gathered at Lekki toll gate , a key roadway and protest site @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
The Lekki toll gate massacre came after weeks of demonstrations against the notorious Nigerian police unit known as SARS , the Special Anti-Robbery Squad .
This is the full report of the award-winning CNN senior reporter Nima Elbagir .
A warning : Some of the images and descriptions are extremely graphic .
AMY GOODMAN : After that initial CNN investigation , the Nigerian Army admitted they did use live bullets in the Lekki toll gate massacre .
This is part of a follow-up report by Nima Elbagir .
It begins with General @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Panel of Inquiry about the attack .
AMY GOODMAN : And that , again , is CNN reporter Nima Elbagir .
And we are joined by the award-winning senior international correspondent , based in London .
Nima , it ’ s great to have you back , under these difficult , difficult circumstances , though .
Talk about the significance of this protest , that happened not only in Lagos , but all over Nigeria , but this live ammunition used by the military , and what you forced the Nigerian military to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the country .
NIMA ELBAGIR : It had a chilling effect on the protest movement , on the ability for these young people — and it was generally young people — to come forward and make their voices heard .
One of the activists whose Instagram Live actually was a key part of the evidence that we reviewed , DJ Switch , she said , “ It made us realize that Nigeria is a dictatorship wearing the face of a democracy.
” And that really goes to the heart of the sentiment of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ legal right to protest , and now find themselves in hiding or having been forced to flee the country , or , worse , under some kind of arrest .
It has been really , really difficult for people in the country .
From our perspective , we never wanted to get into a back-and-forth with the Nigerian authorities .
But when we put out our piece , we kept hearing from these families who were still looking for their loved ones , how hurtful it had been for them to hear the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to do with this huge and grievous loss .
So , we went back , and my colleague Stephanie Busari received a call with somebody who had access to the CCTV footage .
And so , it was very important for us to come back out and just reinforce what we had been able to find , and also to use the government ’ s own words .
You saw Brigadier Taiwo there saying — admitting that they did have live ammunition .
That was such a key issue , because up until @ @ @ @ @ @ @ NERMEEN SHAIKH : And , Nima , in addition to that response from the Nigerian government , the minister of information responded to the allegations in the report by threatening to sanction CNN for spreading misinformation , as he said , and saying the Lekki shooting was , quote , “ a massacre without bodies.
” Has he since changed his perspective ?
NIMA ELBAGIR : No , no .
And I can only imagine , if I was grieving a loved one , how it would feel to hear the minister of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
They have threatened us with sanctions .
They ’ ve accused us of being fake news .
They ’ ve had fake human rights advocates putting forward petitions in front of the tribunal to have us be forced to appear ; otherwise , we would face criminal action .
And that ’ s what they ’ re doing to us .
Can you imagine what they ’ re doing to Nigerian journalists ?
Nigerian television channels were fined for reporting on Lekki toll gate .
They have really waged war against the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I ’ m really glad that they ’ ve come after CNN , because it ’ s allowed Nigerian journalists to be able to report and , in a way that has allowed them to evade the wrath of the government , come out and say , “ This is what the media landscape in Nigeria looks like.
” And yet we hear nothing from the leadership around the world about this .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : And , Nima , your report mentions the Lagos Judicial Panel of Inquiry that is looking into @ @ @ @ @ @ @ abuses by the police .
And that inquiry is supposed to go on for about six months .
Can you tell us what the inquiry has so far found and what you expect to come out of it eventually ?
NIMA ELBAGIR : Well , most of the people we ’ ve spoken to on the ground are really concerned , because Minister Lai Mohammed , the minister for information , at one of the press conferences where he was having a go at CNN , came out and said , “ Well @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , as the federal government , are very satisfied with the conduct of the police and the Army.
” And that rings alarm bells , because it presumes innocence months ahead of the findings of the panel .
And witnesses have asked for protection to appear in front of the panel .
The counsel representing the “ End SARS , ” the “ End police brutality ” protesters has asked for protections by the panel , for the panel to officially compel the government to give him some kind of security , because @ @ @ @ @ @ @ frightening threats .
None of that has been forthcoming .
So , if many of those who were there at the scene feel unsafe appearing in front of the panel , what exactly is the panel going to be able to adjudicate on ?
AMY GOODMAN : And , of course , what we ’ re talking about here , these protests were precisely against police brutality .
If you can talk about the significance of this movement throughout Nigeria right now , and then also refer to the latest massacre — wasn @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what happened with Boko Haram ?
NIMA ELBAGIR : Well , both what happened with Boko Haram and both what we saw over the last few months with regards to the protests against police brutality speak to the same thing , which is a sense by the people of Nigeria that the state has fundamentally failed in its duties towards them , whether it ’ s failed with regards to civilian authorities and their policing , and this perception that corruption isn ’ t just something that is being ignored or being perpetuated @ @ @ @ @ @ @ but even the police , those who are supposed to be cracking down on this , are themselves corrupt .
And although at the moment this does seem to have had a chilling effect , there is a sense from the activists that I ’ m speaking to that they are trying very hard to find a way to make their voices heard again .
One of the activists who organized the protest spoke at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee a few weeks ago .
They ’ re also speaking to the Democratic @ @ @ @ @ @ @ hard , those who have gotten out to safety , to amplify what ’ s happening entirely in Nigeria now .
With the Boko Haram massacre — and we believe about 110 civilians were killed — this was because that local community felt so unprotected by the state authorities that they actually made a deal with Boko Haram militants that they would feed them , that they would provide them with resources and support , if they were left alone .
And some militants came back and overstepped and actually took , forcibly @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of these farmers ’ livelihoods .
And when the farmers just went to get their possessions back , this is what it resulted in .
It resulted in the horror that was perpetuated at the weekend .
And they both rise from the same place , which is a sense by Nigeria ’ s citizens that its government is ineffective , at best , and corrupt , at worst .
AMY GOODMAN : Nima Elbagir , we ’ re going to ask you to stay with us .
We ’ re going to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we want to ask you — you ’ re based right now in London — about what ’ s happening with COVID and the vaccine in London , but also the latest news on Ethiopia , with so many refugees fleeing from Tigray into Sudan , which is where you are from .
This is Democracy Now !
We ’ re speaking to the award-winning senior international correspondent for CNN , Nima Elbagir .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We begin today’s show in Africa’s most populous country, in Nigeria. The country has been stunned by a brutal massacre of more than 100 farmworkers by suspected members of the militant group Boko Haram. On Saturday, armed men on motorcycles slaughtered people harvesting rice fields in a rural part of Borno State. A survivor said the attackers, quote, “engaged in murderous insanity, grabbing workers, tying them up and slitting their throats.” At least 30 of the victims were reportedly beheaded. No group has claimed responsibility.
Meanwhile, new revelations have come to light about a bloody government crackdown in Lagos, in Nigeria, which helped to quash a growing movement against police brutality. A CNN investigation has exposed the Nigerian Army’s role in an attack on protesters in Lagos in October. In a shocking display of violence, on October 20th, the Army opened fire on protesters gathered at Lekki toll gate, a key roadway and protest site. At least 12 people were killed. The Lekki toll gate massacre came after weeks of demonstrations against the notorious Nigerian police unit known as SARS, the Special Anti-Robbery Squad.
This is the full report of the award-winning CNN senior reporter Nima Elbagir. A warning: Some of the images and descriptions are extremely graphic.
PROTESTER 1: They’ve killed him. They’ve killed him.
NIMA ELBAGIR: The Nigerian government denies this happened.
PROTESTER 2: They are killing my people!
NIMA ELBAGIR: A peaceful protest turned deadly.
PROTESTER 3: The police came. We are peaceful. They came and start shooting at us.
NIMA ELBAGIR: CNN investigated the events at Lekki toll gate the night of October 20th in Lagos, Nigeria. After analyzing hours of footage —
PROTESTER 4: Why they are doing this to us?
NIMA ELBAGIR: — we are going to tell a story that is radically different than the one the authorities are telling.
PROTESTER 5: The peaceful protests happy?
PROTESTERS: Yes!
PROTESTER 5: OK. Make everybody the same. Now wave the flag.
PROTESTERS: [singing] Solidarity forever …
NIMA ELBAGIR: This is Godson. He was one of the demonstrators having fun live-streaming the event. He, like many others, gathered in a peaceful demonstration of discontent, after weeks of protests against what they called systemic police brutality and corruption. What Godson and the protesters did not know is that the Army is already on its way.
This is Bonny Camp, a military garrison on the south side of Lagos. We know, through analyzing footage, they left at 6:29 p.m. heading towards Lekki toll gate. We can see here the Nigerian government forces approaching. The protesters are gathered on the other side of the gate. As Nigerian forces get closer, you can see shots. At 6:43 p.m., we start hearing gunfire. We know this from the timestamp and data on this video. Here’s another angle.
WITNESS 1: They are releasing fire.
WITNESS 2: They shoot! They shoot! They shoot! They shoot! They shoot!
WITNESS 2: They are releasing fire.
NIMA ELBAGIR: Nigerian authorities say they fired blanks into the air and not at protesters. But CNN obtained video that appears to show the Army shooting toward the crowd, here and, at the top of your screen, here. In the midst of the chaotic scenes is DJ Switch.
DJ SWITCH: The place is on fire!
NIMA ELBAGIR: A Nigerian celebrity and activist, she is broadcasting live on Instagram.
DJ SWITCH: I wanted people to see what was happening. I didn’t want anybody to come and twist the story.
NIMA ELBAGIR: Witnesses tell CNN ambulances were stopped from entering by Nigerian authorities. You can see here people at the scene trying to conduct CPR.
DJ SWITCH: Please explain to me how, in which part of the world do you go to a protest with live bullets.
PROTESTER 6: Everybody, look at this. These are the bullets that were falling, that were falling by our side. We are dodging bullets.
NIMA ELBAGIR: CNN has verified that these bullet casings are from live ammunition. They are of mixed origin. Some are Serbian, this one from 2005. Nigerian military sources verified to us that these are munitions that are currently in use by Nigeria’s Army. And in collaboration with the Balkan Investigative Reporting Network, we were also able to procure Serbian export documents proving that Nigeria purchased weaponry from Serbia for almost every year between 2005 and 2016.
The shooting continued past midnight. Eyewitnesses tell us it wasn’t just the Army. At this point, they say, police arrive and open fire.
PROTESTER 7: My hand is broken. My leg is broken. And police are still shooting at us. And if I don’t make it through the night, let it be known: I died fighting for our freedom.
NIMA ELBAGIR: So, why were live rounds used at a peaceful protest? Many family members of those still missing are asking that question as they hunt for answers or the bodies of their loved ones. Elisha’s brother Victor was at the protest that night.
ELISHA SUNDAY: Someone picked up my brother’s phone and called me and said that my brother Victor Sunday is among of those people who died, who were shot at Lekki toll gate. And I entered into the hospital and searched. I could not see him. And we are trying, we are trying our best, just to find him. But there is no way to find him.
NIMA ELBAGIR: What we’re about to show you is incredibly graphic, but it’s also incredibly important. This is Elisha’s brother Victor. The data in this footage shows it was filmed at 1:04 a.m. at Lekki toll gate. Elisha says he received a call about his brother’s death around this time. This places Victor exactly at the location of the protest on the night witnesses say they were shot at. This is important, because Nigerian authorities deny anyone was killed at the scene. Since this incident, CNN has contacted over 100 protesters and family members.
PROTESTER 8: They pointed their guns at us, and they started shooting.
NIMA ELBAGIR: We asked what they heard —
PROTESTER 9: We heard gunshots from behind the toll.
NIMA ELBAGIR: — and felt.
PROTESTER 10: This is where I was shot. And the bullet went through my back.
NIMA ELBAGIR: Many are in hiding. Some have fled the country. CNN tried to share these findings with the Nigerian Army but received no response. Lagos state authorities would not comment on our reporting until, they said, a Judicial Panel of Inquiry presents its findings. The wait for answers here continues. Nima Elbagir, CNN, London.
AMY GOODMAN: After that initial CNN investigation, the Nigerian Army admitted they did use live bullets in the Lekki toll gate massacre. This is part of a follow-up report by Nima Elbagir. It begins with General Ahmed Taiwo speaking to the Lagos Judicial Panel of Inquiry about the attack.
GEN. AHMED TAIWO: The soldiers would be given both live and blank bullets. In this particular case, we saw that this protest had been infiltrated by hoodlums.
NIMA ELBAGIR: But eyewitnesses and families we spoke to say the ammunition used that night by Nigerian authorities was very real.
PROTESTER 10: This is where I was shot. And the bullet went through my back.
NIMA ELBAGIR: Up until this point, the Army had denied they had live bullets at all on that night. It confirms a key finding in our investigation, that there was live ammunition at the scene.
AMY GOODMAN: And that, again, is CNN reporter Nima Elbagir. And we are joined by the award-winning senior international correspondent, based in London.
Nima, it’s great to have you back, under these difficult, difficult circumstances, though. Talk about the significance of this protest, that happened not only in Lagos, but all over Nigeria, but this live ammunition used by the military, and what you forced the Nigerian military to admit, and what this means for the country.
NIMA ELBAGIR: It had a chilling effect on the protest movement, on the ability for these young people — and it was generally young people — to come forward and make their voices heard. One of the activists whose Instagram Live actually was a key part of the evidence that we reviewed, DJ Switch, she said, “It made us realize that Nigeria is a dictatorship wearing the face of a democracy.” And that really goes to the heart of the sentiment of people who thought that they had the legal right to protest, and now find themselves in hiding or having been forced to flee the country, or, worse, under some kind of arrest. It has been really, really difficult for people in the country.
From our perspective, we never wanted to get into a back-and-forth with the Nigerian authorities. But when we put out our piece, we kept hearing from these families who were still looking for their loved ones, how hurtful it had been for them to hear the Nigerian government deny that they had anything to do with this huge and grievous loss. So, we went back, and my colleague Stephanie Busari received a call with somebody who had access to the CCTV footage. And so, it was very important for us to come back out and just reinforce what we had been able to find, and also to use the government’s own words. You saw Brigadier Taiwo there saying — admitting that they did have live ammunition. That was such a key issue, because up until that point they denied it entirely.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Nima, in addition to that response from the Nigerian government, the minister of information responded to the allegations in the report by threatening to sanction CNN for spreading misinformation, as he said, and saying the Lekki shooting was, quote, “a massacre without bodies.” Has he since changed his perspective?
NIMA ELBAGIR: No, no. And I can only imagine, if I was grieving a loved one, how it would feel to hear the minister of information speak that way about that night. They have threatened us with sanctions. They’ve accused us of being fake news. They’ve had fake human rights advocates putting forward petitions in front of the tribunal to have us be forced to appear; otherwise, we would face criminal action.
And that’s what they’re doing to us. Can you imagine what they’re doing to Nigerian journalists? Nigerian television channels were fined for reporting on Lekki toll gate. They have really waged war against the press. And in a way, I’m really glad that they’ve come after CNN, because it’s allowed Nigerian journalists to be able to report and, in a way that has allowed them to evade the wrath of the government, come out and say, “This is what the media landscape in Nigeria looks like.” And yet we hear nothing from the leadership around the world about this.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Nima, your report mentions the Lagos Judicial Panel of Inquiry that is looking into this incident, as well as broader abuses by the police. And that inquiry is supposed to go on for about six months. Can you tell us what the inquiry has so far found and what you expect to come out of it eventually?
NIMA ELBAGIR: Well, most of the people we’ve spoken to on the ground are really concerned, because Minister Lai Mohammed, the minister for information, at one of the press conferences where he was having a go at CNN, came out and said, “Well, we are very satisfied. We, as the federal government, are very satisfied with the conduct of the police and the Army.” And that rings alarm bells, because it presumes innocence months ahead of the findings of the panel.
And witnesses have asked for protection to appear in front of the panel. The counsel representing the “End SARS,” the “End police brutality” protesters has asked for protections by the panel, for the panel to officially compel the government to give him some kind of security, because he says he has received some pretty frightening threats. None of that has been forthcoming. So, if many of those who were there at the scene feel unsafe appearing in front of the panel, what exactly is the panel going to be able to adjudicate on?
AMY GOODMAN: And, of course, what we’re talking about here, these protests were precisely against police brutality. If you can talk about the significance of this movement throughout Nigeria right now, and then also refer to the latest massacre — wasn’t a military massacre, but what happened with Boko Haram?
NIMA ELBAGIR: Well, both what happened with Boko Haram and both what we saw over the last few months with regards to the protests against police brutality speak to the same thing, which is a sense by the people of Nigeria that the state has fundamentally failed in its duties towards them, whether it’s failed with regards to civilian authorities and their policing, and this perception that corruption isn’t just something that is being ignored or being perpetuated by politicians within the state system, but even the police, those who are supposed to be cracking down on this, are themselves corrupt.
And although at the moment this does seem to have had a chilling effect, there is a sense from the activists that I’m speaking to that they are trying very hard to find a way to make their voices heard again. One of the activists who organized the protest spoke at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee a few weeks ago. They’re also speaking to the Democratic Black Caucus. They are trying very hard, those who have gotten out to safety, to amplify what’s happening entirely in Nigeria now.
With the Boko Haram massacre — and we believe about 110 civilians were killed — this was because that local community felt so unprotected by the state authorities that they actually made a deal with Boko Haram militants that they would feed them, that they would provide them with resources and support, if they were left alone. And some militants came back and overstepped and actually took, forcibly, cattle. They took key elements of these farmers’ livelihoods. And when the farmers just went to get their possessions back, this is what it resulted in. It resulted in the horror that was perpetuated at the weekend. And they both rise from the same place, which is a sense by Nigeria’s citizens that its government is ineffective, at best, and corrupt, at worst.
AMY GOODMAN: Nima Elbagir, we’re going to ask you to stay with us. We’re going to break. When we come back, we want to ask you — you’re based right now in London — about what’s happening with COVID and the vaccine in London, but also the latest news on Ethiopia, with so many refugees fleeing from Tigray into Sudan, which is where you are from. This is Democracy Now! We’re speaking to the award-winning senior international correspondent for CNN, Nima Elbagir. Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-12-03--Headlines for December  3, 2020

Headlines for December  3, 2020

The United States experienced the worst day of the pandemic so far on Wednesday , recording 200,000 new coronavirus infections @ @ @ @ @ the first time ; 3,157 people died of COVID-19 on Wednesday — the highest daily @ @ @ @ @ since the pandemic began .
That ’ s more people than died in the attacks @ @ @ @ @ , and more than have died of COVID-19 across Japan in the past year .
@ @ @ @ @ for Disease Control and Prevention , Dr. Robert Redfield , said the U.S. death toll @ @ @ @ @ by the start of February .
Dr. Robert Redfield : “ The reality is , @ @ @ @ @ are going to be rough times .
I actually believe they ’ re going to @ @ @ @ @ in the public health history of this nation.
” Dr. Redfield said the most vulnerable @ @ @ @ @ as 100 million of them — could be vaccinated against COVID-19 by March 1 .

The United States experienced the worst day of the pandemic so far on Wednesday, recording 200,000 new coronavirus infections as hospitalizations topped 100,000 for the first time; 3,157 people died of COVID-19 on Wednesday — the highest daily death toll of any nation since the pandemic began. That’s more people than died in the attacks on September 11, 2001, and more than have died of COVID-19 across Japan in the past year. The head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Dr. Robert Redfield, said the U.S. death toll could rise to nearly 450,000 by the start of February.
Dr. Robert Redfield: “The reality is, December and January and February are going to be rough times. I actually believe they’re going to be the most difficult time in the public health history of this nation.”
Dr. Redfield said the most vulnerable U.S. residents — as many as 100 million of them — could be vaccinated against COVID-19 by March 1.