democracynow--2020-10-23--Trump Lies About COVID-19 Risks & Vaccine at Debate as Pandemic Is Tied to 300K Excess U.S. Deaths

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : As the U.S. death toll from COVID-19 tops 223,000 , President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden met in Nashville , Tennessee , Thursday in the second and final debate of the 2020 campaign .
They sparred over the Trump administration ’ s response to the pandemic , healthcare , climate change , racism and U.S. immigration policy .
Thursday ’ s matchup was originally scheduled to be the third and final debate , but Trump scuttled a second appearance earlier @ @ @ @ @ @ @ remotely following his hospitalization with COVID-19 .
Thursday ’ s debate was moderated by NBC ’ s Kristen Welker , who began by asking President Trump about his handling of the COVID-19 crisis .
Trump praised his response while falsely claiming that 2.2. million people were expected to die , and falsely claiming a vaccine was , quote , “ ready.
” AMY GOODMAN : Later in the debate , former Vice President Joe Biden criticized Trump for downplaying the pandemic .
AMY GOODMAN : President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Nashville .
To get response , we are joined by Dr. Ali Khan .
He is an epidemiologist and the dean of the College of Public Health at the University of Nebraska Medical Center .
He ’ s the former director of the CDC ’ s Office of Public Health Preparedness and Response , where he oversaw the Strategic National Stockpile .
He ’ s joining us from Omaha , Nebraska .
Nebraska is one of seven states now seeing a record level of COVID hospitalizations .
Dr. Ali Khan , welcome to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that last comment of President Trump ’ s , as he says he is not responsible for this ?
DR. ALI KHAN : Well , good morning , Amy .
And thank you very much for the opportunity to join you this morning .
Before I respond to the last comment , let ’ s step back a little bit and think how unusual this would be if we replaced COVID with polio or cholera or dysentery , that we would have a presidential debate and two different opposing political opinions about a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ cause of death in America now , that was unknown 10 months ago , and we would be having a debate on whether or not it ’ s killing people and how it ’ s killing people .
It ’ s unimaginable , if you just replace COVID with anything else .
But that ’ s essentially what ’ s happening .
And what COVID has done very effectively is it has taken advantage of every splinter in our society , first , in terms of biologically — you know , elderly males @ @ @ @ @ @ @ risk — then social politically , economically .
It ’ s extremely unfortunate , what ’ s going on in America , with over — actually , it ’ s 300,000 deaths right now .
AMY GOODMAN : Explain what you mean by 300,000 deaths .
DR. ALI KHAN : So , the 220,000 deaths that are reported are an underreport of deaths .
And what you really need to look at , in addition to the actual individual cases that are reported , is excess deaths .
And CDC has recently done @ @ @ @ @ @ @ all excess deaths .
So , these are people who would not have died .
So , it ’ s not as if you — I often hear that , “ Oh , they were elderly .
They were going to die anyway.
” That ’ s not true .
These are individuals who would not have died this year , who are dead .
And that ’ s over 300,000 .
And , yes , while absolutely there ’ s a lot more elderly people who have died , if you look @ @ @ @ @ @ @ amongst the 25-to-44-year-olds , and there ’ s more deaths around Latinos , are more likely to die .
So , yes , approximately 300,000 deaths in America , third leading cause of death , for a disease that was unknown in December .
AMY GOODMAN : Can you respond to the Columbia University report that just came out , the study , where researchers blasted the Trump administration over its disastrous handling of the pandemic ?
The authors write , “ We estimate … at least 130,000 deaths … perhaps as many @ @ @ @ @ @ @ earlier policy interventions and more robust federal coordination and leadership .
Even with the dramatic recent appearance of new COVID-19 waves globally , the abject failures of U.S. government policies and crisis messaging persist.
” Talk about what this means , what Trump did and didn ’ t do , as he talks about how well he dealt with the pandemic .
DR. ALI KHAN : So , Amy , this paper that came out of Columbia University by Dr. Irwin Redlener really puts estimates on how many people have unnecessarily died of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ estimate those preventable deaths .
So , it ’ s always good — you know , I appreciate American exceptionalism , but you just need to go look at what ’ s going on in the rest of the world .
China , zero deaths , their economy in the third quarter increased 4.9 % , OK ?
And it ’ s not just China .
New Zealand , Taiwan , Singapore , Uruguay , Uzbekistan — I can go on and on , all over the world , where countries where they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ decrease cases in their countries , and they are down to zero to no cases .
So , what this new paper says is , if we had just followed what we know the science is — so , the science , we know how to get rid of this disease : test , trace and isolate ; community engagement , that ’ s masks , social distancing , handwashing ; and excellent leadership at the national , state and local level .
You put that controlled triad together , and the U.S. @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
And again , this is what happened in the past .
I ’ m worried now about what ’ s happening in the future .
We continue to see approximately 700 deaths , preventable deaths , every day in America because we still don ’ t have a containment strategy in America , we still don ’ t have that leadership , not just at the national level , state and local level , because public health is a local activity .
So , where is that test , tracing and isolating @ @ @ @ @ @ @ state and local mandates for masks , handwashing , social distancing ?
We know what it takes to get this disease under control .
It is not a secret from a scientific standpoint .
AMY GOODMAN : This is the key point , Dr. Khan , that you say not just about the past here , but the future .
As President Trump goes around the country now with his rallies , not clear when the last time was he met with the coronavirus task force , we ’ re talking about possibly @ @ @ @ @ @ @ few months as have died so far in this country , right ?
Over 200,000 people — you say 300,000 — since the beginning of the pandemic .
What can be put in place right now ?
You were head of the National Stockpile .
You worked at the CDC for years .
Can you talk about , even if it is late , what President Trump needs to do , with invoking the Defense Production Act , still getting millions of tests and masks to people ?
He keeps saying anyone can @ @ @ @ @ @ @ an absolute lie .
DR. ALI KHAN : So , you ’ re quite right , Amy .
Even we can start today to prevent these 700 to a thousand deaths that are happening every day .
We have the tools .
We ’ ve always had the tools .
It starts at the top , and then it cascades to the national , state , local , county , city , tribal , territorial level , which is , you need that unified leadership .
As I said , just think about @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a disease .
This is great for COVID-19 .
It ’ s not good for us , right ?
That leadership , that we are going to contain this disease , we know what the science is to get this disease under control , we ’ re going to use evidence , we ’ re going to use metrics , we ’ re going to use data , and we ’ re going to drive down this disease .
The second thing we ’ re going to do — need to do is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ trace and isolate .
So , there is , obviously , gaps in testing in the United States , but there ’ s a lot of testing in the United States .
But you have to link the testing with action .
It ’ s not just about anybody who wants a test can get a test , because many people don ’ t even need a test .
But the ones who do need a test , if they ’ re positive , have you made sure that they ’ re isolated @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Have you quarantined their contacts in a socially viable manner ?
And if you don ’ t do that , then why bother to test people , right ?
And then the third thing is , at the — starting at the local level , where are mask mandates to make sure people are wearing masks , making sure they ’ re social distancing , whatever that looks like in that community based on what ’ s going on , and then making sure that they ’ re washing hands ?
I mean @ @ @ @ @ @ @ America back to work , to get all the kids back in school , and to get people , fans , back in stadiums .
We have those tools right now , if we wanted to use them .
AMY GOODMAN : Quickly , if you could respond to what Trump is using as a pretext for not doing anything , and that is saying “ herd immunity , ” let the population get sick ?
DR. ALI KHAN : Oh my gosh .
That is the most unethical , disastrous approach that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ immunity is a wonderful concept when we use vaccine to get herd immunity .
However , herd immunity has never been used previously .
It would be analogous of saying there ’ s an Ebola outbreak , and we go , “ Oh , let ’ s go infect everybody so that it ’ s less disruptive in our society.
” So , herd immunity is the maximum death strategy , which is , you kill as many people as possible until potentially people are immune .
Well , A , that ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ tried it before .
B , it ignores the fact that you may have long-term sequela .
So , I know people like to say 99 % of people survive .
Well , at a population level , unfortunately , 1 % is still 3 million people in the U.S .
But we do know that potentially a third of people , a quarter of people may have long-term heart , lung , kidney and brain damage .
So , there ’ s still these long-term side effects that we ’ re not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , if this disease really causes reinfections in four to six months , herd immunity can ’ t work .
We get the cold every year .
We have not yet had herd immunity to the cold virus , which is another type of coronavirus .
AMY GOODMAN : Which goes to — AMY GOODMAN : Which goes to one of the first things President Trump said last night .
He said , you know , he had COVID , and now he ’ s immune .
DR. ALI KHAN : And he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you know , if you get infected , you may not be immune forever .
And we don ’ t know how long that immunity lasts .
We know that there have been some cases of reinfection .
So , that again says , how can you have herd immunity if you can get reinfected ?
So , correct , we hope that you ’ re protected for a very long period of time , but we need to get disease down to zero so that we don ’ t have infections in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you go , I wanted to ask you about the Affordable Care Act .
At one point in the 90-minute debate , Trump conflated Biden ’ s call for a government-run public option healthcare plan with a Medicare for All bill authored by Bernie Sanders .
AMY GOODMAN : Dr. Ali Khan , I ’ m wondering if you could comment overall about Medicare for All .
As President Trump went after socialized medicine , he didn ’ t talk about being at Walter Reed [ hospital ] , where he dealt with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the epitome of socialized medicine , and very fine socialized medicine at that ?
DR. ALI KHAN : Yeah , actually , quite — military medicine is quite excellent medicine , as is Medicare in the United States , which is an excellent healthcare system in the United States for the elderly and select others , that ’ s actually cost-effective .
And again , American exceptionalism : If you look outside the U.S. , numerous countries have figured out how to solve this universal access issue .
And we need to solve @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to talk about the new normal .
I like to talk about the better normal , because there ’ s lots of things about the old normal I didn ’ t like .
You know , institutional racism would be one of them .
But , again , everybody needs to have access to healthcare in our better normal .
AMY GOODMAN : Dr. Ali Khan , I want to thank you for being with us , epidemiologist , dean of the College of Public Health at the University of Nebraska Medical Center @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s Office of Public Health Preparedness and Response , where he oversaw the Strategic National Stockpile .
He is in Nebraska , which is one of the seven states right now with record hospitalizations .
This is Democracy Now !
When we come back , we continue with the excerpts of last night ’ s debate .
Stay with as .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: As the U.S. death toll from COVID-19 tops 223,000, President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden met in Nashville, Tennessee, Thursday in the second and final debate of the 2020 campaign. They sparred over the Trump administration’s response to the pandemic, healthcare, climate change, racism and U.S. immigration policy. Thursday’s matchup was originally scheduled to be the third and final debate, but Trump scuttled a second appearance earlier this month after refusing to take part remotely following his hospitalization with COVID-19.
Thursday’s debate was moderated by NBC’s Kristen Welker, who began by asking President Trump about his handling of the COVID-19 crisis. Trump praised his response while falsely claiming that 2.2. million people were expected to die, and falsely claiming a vaccine was, quote, “ready.”
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We have a vaccine that’s coming. It’s ready. It’s going to be announced within weeks, and it’s going to be delivered. We have Operation Warp Speed, which is — the military is going to distribute the vaccine.
I can tell you from personal experience that I was in the hospital, I had it, and I got better. And I will tell you that I had something that they gave me, a therapeutic, I guess they would call it. Some people could say it was a cure. But I was in for a short period of time, and I got better very fast, or I wouldn’t be here tonight. And now they say I’m immune. Whether it’s four months or a lifetime, nobody has been able to say that, but I’m immune. More and more people are getting better.
We have a problem that’s a worldwide problem. This is a worldwide problem. But I’ve been congratulated by the heads of many countries on what we’ve been able to do with the — if you take a look at what we’ve done in terms of goggles and masks and gowns and everything else, and in particular ventilators. We’re now making ventilators all over the world, thousands and thousands a month, distributing them all over the world.
It will go away. And as I say, we’re rounding the turn. We’re rounding the corner. It’s going away.
KRISTEN WELKER: OK. Former Vice President Biden, to you: How would you lead the country out of this crisis? You have two minutes, uninterrupted.
JOE BIDEN: Two hundred and twenty thousand Americans dead. If you hear nothing else I say tonight, hear this: Anyone who is responsible for not taking control, in fact, not saying I’m — “I take no responsibility,” initially — anyone who’s responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America.
We’re in a situation where there are a thousand deaths a day now. A thousand deaths a day. And there are over 70,000 new cases per day. Compared to what’s going on in Europe, as The New England Medical Journal said, they’re starting from a very low rate, we’re starting from a very high rate. The expectation is we’ll have another 200,000 Americans dead between now and the end of the year.
If we just wore these masks, the president’s own advisers have told him, we could save 100,000 lives. And we’re in a circumstance where the president thus far, and still, has no plan, no comprehensive plan.
AMY GOODMAN: Later in the debate, former Vice President Joe Biden criticized Trump for downplaying the pandemic.
JOE BIDEN: He did virtually nothing. And then he gets out of the hospital, and he talks about, “Oh, don’t worry. It’s all going to be over soon.” Come on. There’s not another serious scientist in the world who thinks it’s going to be over soon.
KRISTEN WELKER: President Trump, your reaction?
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I didn’t say “over soon.” I say we’re learning to live with it. We have no choice. … Ninety-nine-point-nine of young people recover. Ninety-nine percent of people recover. We have to recover. We can’t close up our nation. We have to open our school, and we can’t close up our nation, or you’re not going to have a nation. …
JOE BIDEN: He says that we’re — you know, we’re learning to live with it. People are learning to die with it. You folks home will have an empty chair at the kitchen table this morning. That man or wife going to bed tonight and reaching over to try to touch there, out of habit, where their wife or husband was, is gone. “Learning to live with it”? Come on. We’re dying with it, because he has never said — you see, you said, “It’s dangerous.” When’s the last time? Is it really dangerous still? Are we dangerous? You tell the people it’s dangerous now. And what should they do about the danger? And you say, “I take no responsibility.”
KRISTEN WELKER: Let me talk about your —
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Excuse me. I take full —
KRISTEN WELKER: Very quickly.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I take full responsibility. It’s not my fault that it came here. It’s China’s fault.
AMY GOODMAN: President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden at last night’s debate in Nashville.
To get response, we are joined by Dr. Ali Khan. He is an epidemiologist and the dean of the College of Public Health at the University of Nebraska Medical Center. He’s the former director of the CDC’s Office of Public Health Preparedness and Response, where he oversaw the Strategic National Stockpile. He’s joining us from Omaha, Nebraska. Nebraska is one of seven states now seeing a record level of COVID hospitalizations.
Dr. Ali Khan, welcome to Democracy Now! Can you respond to that last comment of President Trump’s, as he says he is not responsible for this?
DR. ALI KHAN: Well, good morning, Amy. And thank you very much for the opportunity to join you this morning.
Before I respond to the last comment, let’s step back a little bit and think how unusual this would be if we replaced COVID with polio or cholera or dysentery, that we would have a presidential debate and two different opposing political opinions about a disease that’s the third leading cause of death in America now, that was unknown 10 months ago, and we would be having a debate on whether or not it’s killing people and how it’s killing people. It’s unimaginable, if you just replace COVID with anything else. But that’s essentially what’s happening.
And what COVID has done very effectively is it has taken advantage of every splinter in our society, first, in terms of biologically — you know, elderly males, we know, are at higher risk — then social politically, economically. It’s extremely unfortunate, what’s going on in America, with over — actually, it’s 300,000 deaths right now.
AMY GOODMAN: Explain what you mean by 300,000 deaths.
DR. ALI KHAN: So, the 220,000 deaths that are reported are an underreport of deaths. And what you really need to look at, in addition to the actual individual cases that are reported, is excess deaths. And CDC has recently done a very nice analysis of looking at all excess deaths. So, these are people who would not have died. So, it’s not as if you — I often hear that, “Oh, they were elderly. They were going to die anyway.” That’s not true. These are individuals who would not have died this year, who are dead. And that’s over 300,000. And, yes, while absolutely there’s a lot more elderly people who have died, if you look relatively, there’s more deaths amongst the 25-to-44-year-olds, and there’s more deaths around Latinos, are more likely to die. So, yes, approximately 300,000 deaths in America, third leading cause of death, for a disease that was unknown in December.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you respond to the Columbia University report that just came out, the study, where researchers blasted the Trump administration over its disastrous handling of the pandemic? The authors write, “We estimate … at least 130,000 deaths … perhaps as many as 210,000 could have been avoided with earlier policy interventions and more robust federal coordination and leadership. Even with the dramatic recent appearance of new COVID-19 waves globally, the abject failures of U.S. government policies and crisis messaging persist.” Talk about what this means, what Trump did and didn’t do, as he talks about how well he dealt with the pandemic.
DR. ALI KHAN: So, Amy, this paper that came out of Columbia University by Dr. Irwin Redlener really puts estimates on how many people have unnecessarily died of this disease, and it tries to estimate those preventable deaths.
So, it’s always good — you know, I appreciate American exceptionalism, but you just need to go look at what’s going on in the rest of the world. China, zero deaths, their economy in the third quarter increased 4.9%, OK? And it’s not just China. New Zealand, Taiwan, Singapore, Uruguay, Uzbekistan — I can go on and on, all over the world, where countries where they had a robust public health strategy to decrease cases in their countries, and they are down to zero to no cases.
So, what this new paper says is, if we had just followed what we know the science is — so, the science, we know how to get rid of this disease: test, trace and isolate; community engagement, that’s masks, social distancing, handwashing; and excellent leadership at the national, state and local level. You put that controlled triad together, and the U.S. would not have had these preventable deaths.
And again, this is what happened in the past. I’m worried now about what’s happening in the future. We continue to see approximately 700 deaths, preventable deaths, every day in America because we still don’t have a containment strategy in America, we still don’t have that leadership, not just at the national level, state and local level, because public health is a local activity. So, where is that test, tracing and isolating happening? Where are those national and state and local mandates for masks, handwashing, social distancing? We know what it takes to get this disease under control. It is not a secret from a scientific standpoint.
AMY GOODMAN: This is the key point, Dr. Khan, that you say not just about the past here, but the future. As President Trump goes around the country now with his rallies, not clear when the last time was he met with the coronavirus task force, we’re talking about possibly as many people dying in the next few months as have died so far in this country, right? Over 200,000 people — you say 300,000 — since the beginning of the pandemic. What can be put in place right now? You were head of the National Stockpile. You worked at the CDC for years. Can you talk about, even if it is late, what President Trump needs to do, with invoking the Defense Production Act, still getting millions of tests and masks to people? He keeps saying anyone can get a test. It is just an absolute lie.
DR. ALI KHAN: So, you’re quite right, Amy. Even we can start today to prevent these 700 to a thousand deaths that are happening every day. We have the tools. We’ve always had the tools. It starts at the top, and then it cascades to the national, state, local, county, city, tribal, territorial level, which is, you need that unified leadership. As I said, just think about it. We’re arguing about a disease. This is great for COVID-19. It’s not good for us, right? That leadership, that we are going to contain this disease, we know what the science is to get this disease under control, we’re going to use evidence, we’re going to use metrics, we’re going to use data, and we’re going to drive down this disease.
The second thing we’re going to do — need to do is we need to ramp up test, trace and isolate. So, there is, obviously, gaps in testing in the United States, but there’s a lot of testing in the United States. But you have to link the testing with action. It’s not just about anybody who wants a test can get a test, because many people don’t even need a test. But the ones who do need a test, if they’re positive, have you made sure that they’re isolated? Have you found their contacts? Have you quarantined their contacts in a socially viable manner? And if you don’t do that, then why bother to test people, right?
And then the third thing is, at the — starting at the local level, where are mask mandates to make sure people are wearing masks, making sure they’re social distancing, whatever that looks like in that community based on what’s going on, and then making sure that they’re washing hands? I mean, we have the tools to get America back to work, to get all the kids back in school, and to get people, fans, back in stadiums. We have those tools right now, if we wanted to use them.
AMY GOODMAN: Quickly, if you could respond to what Trump is using as a pretext for not doing anything, and that is saying “herd immunity,” let the population get sick?
DR. ALI KHAN: Oh my gosh. That is the most unethical, disastrous approach that’s possible. So, herd immunity is a wonderful concept when we use vaccine to get herd immunity. However, herd immunity has never been used previously. It would be analogous of saying there’s an Ebola outbreak, and we go, “Oh, let’s go infect everybody so that it’s less disruptive in our society.”
So, herd immunity is the maximum death strategy, which is, you kill as many people as possible until potentially people are immune. Well, A, that’s so ludicrous, nobody has ever tried it before. B, it ignores the fact that you may have long-term sequela. So, I know people like to say 99% of people survive. Well, at a population level, unfortunately, 1% is still 3 million people in the U.S. But we do know that potentially a third of people, a quarter of people may have long-term heart, lung, kidney and brain damage. So, there’s still these long-term side effects that we’re not accounting for. And then, finally, if this disease really causes reinfections in four to six months, herd immunity can’t work. We get the cold every year. We have not yet had herd immunity to the cold virus, which is another type of coronavirus.
AMY GOODMAN: Which goes to —
DR. ALI KHAN: So, herd immunity is unethical.
AMY GOODMAN: Which goes to one of the first things President Trump said last night. He said, you know, he had COVID, and now he’s immune.
DR. ALI KHAN: And he may not — president or not, you know, if you get infected, you may not be immune forever. And we don’t know how long that immunity lasts. We know that there have been some cases of reinfection. So, that again says, how can you have herd immunity if you can get reinfected? So, correct, we hope that you’re protected for a very long period of time, but we need to get disease down to zero so that we don’t have infections in our community.
AMY GOODMAN: Before you go, I wanted to ask you about the Affordable Care Act. At one point in the 90-minute debate, Trump conflated Biden’s call for a government-run public option healthcare plan with a Medicare for All bill authored by Bernie Sanders.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: When he talks about a public option, he’s talking about destroying your Medicare, totally destroying —
JOE BIDEN: Wrong.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: — and destroying your Social Security. And this whole country will come down. You know, Bernie Sanders tried it in his state. …
KRISTEN WELKER: Vice President Biden, your response?
JOE BIDEN: He’s a very confused guy. He thinks he’s running against somebody else. He’s running against Joe Biden. I beat all those other people because I disagreed with them.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Ali Khan, I’m wondering if you could comment overall about Medicare for All. As President Trump went after socialized medicine, he didn’t talk about being at Walter Reed [hospital], where he dealt with his COVID-19. Isn’t that the epitome of socialized medicine, and very fine socialized medicine at that?
DR. ALI KHAN: Yeah, actually, quite — military medicine is quite excellent medicine, as is Medicare in the United States, which is an excellent healthcare system in the United States for the elderly and select others, that’s actually cost-effective. And again, American exceptionalism: If you look outside the U.S., numerous countries have figured out how to solve this universal access issue. And we need to solve that problem in America.
People like to talk about the new normal. I like to talk about the better normal, because there’s lots of things about the old normal I didn’t like. You know, institutional racism would be one of them. But, again, everybody needs to have access to healthcare in our better normal.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Ali Khan, I want to thank you for being with us, epidemiologist, dean of the College of Public Health at the University of Nebraska Medical Center, former director of the CDC’s Office of Public Health Preparedness and Response, where he oversaw the Strategic National Stockpile. He is in Nebraska, which is one of the seven states right now with record hospitalizations.
This is Democracy Now! When we come back, we continue with the excerpts of last night’s debate. Stay with as.


democracynow--2020-10-23--Headlines for October 23, 2020

Headlines for October 23, 2020

The United States confirmed more than 71,000 new coronavirus infections Thursday — one of the worst daily tolls of the U.S. outbreak so far .
North Dakota has suspended contact tracing efforts as a backlog of cases overwhelmed National Guard soldiers assigned to track down the contacts of infected people .
As of Thursday , North Dakota ’ s hospitals had just 14 intensive care unit beds available statewide .
Data compiled by Johns Hopkins shows that if North Dakota were a nation , it would have the highest number of per capita COVID-19 cases in the world .
In @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Milwaukee admitted its first COVID-19 patient Thursday as Wisconsin ’ s infections continued to surge to record-high levels .
Utah Governor Gary Herbert warned Thursday that the state ’ s healthcare system is at or near its capacity .
In Massachusetts , Boston ’ s schools superintendent on Thursday canceled plans to resume in-person learning at public schools .
In Houston , Texas , teachers at dozens of schools staged “ sick-out ” protests Thursday demanding smaller class sizes , enforced social distancing and mask wearing , better classroom ventilation and other safety @ @ @ @

The United States confirmed more than 71,000 new coronavirus infections Thursday — one of the worst daily tolls of the U.S. outbreak so far.
North Dakota has suspended contact tracing efforts as a backlog of cases overwhelmed National Guard soldiers assigned to track down the contacts of infected people. As of Thursday, North Dakota’s hospitals had just 14 intensive care unit beds available statewide. Data compiled by Johns Hopkins shows that if North Dakota were a nation, it would have the highest number of per capita COVID-19 cases in the world.
In Wisconsin, a massive field hospital outside Milwaukee admitted its first COVID-19 patient Thursday as Wisconsin’s infections continued to surge to record-high levels.
Utah Governor Gary Herbert warned Thursday that the state’s healthcare system is at or near its capacity.
In Massachusetts, Boston’s schools superintendent on Thursday canceled plans to resume in-person learning at public schools.
In Houston, Texas, teachers at dozens of schools staged “sick-out” protests Thursday demanding smaller class sizes, enforced social distancing and mask wearing, better classroom ventilation and other safety measures at schools.


democracynow--2020-10-26--Muslims in Trump Country: "Natours Grocery" Tells Story of Palestinian American Family in Virginia

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
As the presidential race enters its final full week , President Trump is continuing to run a campaign filled with attacks on immigrants and even immigrant members of Congress .
During one recent rally in Michigan , Trump claimed Congresswoman Ilhan Omar of Minnesota , quote , “ truly hates our country , ” he said .
Omar is the first Somali American elected to Congress and , along with Rashida @ @ @ @ @ @ @ one of just two Muslim women ever elected to Congress .
Well , today we take a look at what it ’ s like for one Palestinian American family living in Trump ’ s America .
In a short documentary titled Natours Grocery , the filmmaker Nadine Natour shares the story of her immigrant parents , who own a store in the highly conservative town of Appomattox , Virginia , which voted for President Trump in 2016 .
AMY GOODMAN : The Natours ’ store is in the small Virginia town of Appomattox @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Robert E. Lee surrendered to Union General Ulysses S. Grant , effectively ending the Civil War in 1865 .
AMY GOODMAN : For the Natours , their roots are thousands of miles away , in Palestine .
AMY GOODMAN : While the Natours say they don ’ t talk about politics or religion with their customers , Sabah Natour does share some of her cultural heritage .
AMY GOODMAN : While the Natours build bridges with their neighbors , President Trump ’ s anti-immigrant , anti-Muslim rhetoric has inspired a backlash in Appomattox @ @ @ @ @ @ @ short documentary Natours Grocery .
It premieres tonight as part of the POV Shorts on PBS .
We ’ re joined by the film ’ s director , Nadine Natour .
She was an associate producer on the Oscar-nominated film RBG .
Nadine here is telling her own family ’ s story .
Those are her parents who run the grocery store .
She ’ s the oldest of four daughters .
Nadine , thanks so much for joining us on Democracy Now !
We don ’ t have much time , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ heart of this story , your growing up in one of the most conservative areas of the United States , and how , from you to your youngest sister , you feel the area has changed .
NADINE NATOUR : Thanks so much for having me , Amy .
Yes .
So , while I was growing up , I really didn ’ t pay that much attention to being Muslim , to being Arab .
My parents came from Palestine , and it was just sort of part of growing up .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ re a secular family , didn ’ t pay too much attention to that .
But as the years progressed and we saw different administrations come and go , and the climate for American Muslims became a bit more worrisome .
So , in the election of Donald Trump , we saw a lot of that bubbling racist sentiment towards immigrants , towards Muslim , become part of the mainstream discourse .
And whereas I really never thought about it , when it comes to my youngest sister , who you see in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ comments or attacks on her heritage as she was going through school .
So , you really could see a shift in the attitude towards Muslims , towards immigrants , and especially with the election of Donald Trump , the underlying discourse sort of was brought out into the open .
AMY GOODMAN : Your father is known as “ G ” by the community , as he runs Natours Grocery .
His name actually is Gehad , is that right ?
AMY GOODMAN : Did he shorten it because he felt it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ part of the country ?
NADINE NATOUR : You know , at the time , I don ’ t think that association was being made yet .
And he probably just wanted people to have the ease of saying a name quickly , just as many immigrants are looking for ways to sort of adapt and blend in with the community that becomes their new home .
But , yes , his name is Gehad .
AMY GOODMAN : And after 9/11 , how you felt ?
NADINE NATOUR : You know , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ necessarily a huge shift in my experience .
But for someone — my sister was born the day after .
So , for someone like her , it really made a difference in the way that she experienced , you know , feeling like a part of the town .
But this was what I really wanted to explore in the film , was that we really felt a tremendous amount of love from the people in our town , and it was interesting to me to talk to our customers and people @ @ @ @ @ @ @ someone who was saying anti-immigrant , anti-Muslim sentiments as part of their campaign and as part of their platform .
And I think it ’ s important that no matter who gets into office in the next election , that we sort of make sure we can protect the Muslim America as part of — as part of the country .
AMY GOODMAN : And I wanted to bring in Julie Cohen , finally , the producer of this film , who also produced and directed the Oscar-nominated film RBG .
Julie , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s film ?
JULIE COHEN : First of all , because my belief in Nadine as a filmmaker , but also just the story of her family is so incredible .
I mean , you hear those soundbites at the beginning and that you were mentioning of Donald Trump saying Muslims hate this country .
I mean , when you see this film , Nadine ’ s family represents , in every way , so beautifully , the American dream .
And to think that there ’ s this huge misunderstanding , at @ @ @ @ @ @ @ just really , really ugly hatred , at worst , it just feels like it ’ s a misunderstanding that really needs some clearing up .
And Nadine has done a gorgeous job of doing that .
AMY GOODMAN : And , Julie , as you did RBG , your thoughts today on what is the probable confirmation vote for Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett ?
We have 15 seconds .
JULIE COHEN : Well , you know , it looks like it ’ s happening .
If there were ever a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ dissent , what Justice Ginsburg so beautifully provided , it ’ s now .
I think , you know , with the threat of rights being peeled back , I think many of us are concerned that Amy Coney Barrett [ inaudible ] — AMY GOODMAN : We have to leave it there .
Thank you so much , Julie Cohen and Nadine Natour .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman.
As the presidential race enters its final full week, President Trump is continuing to run a campaign filled with attacks on immigrants and even immigrant members of Congress. During one recent rally in Michigan, Trump claimed Congresswoman Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, quote, “truly hates our country,” he said. Omar is the first Somali American elected to Congress and, along with Rashida Tlaib, a Palestinian American congressmember, one of just two Muslim women ever elected to Congress.
Well, today we take a look at what it’s like for one Palestinian American family living in Trump’s America. In a short documentary titled Natours Grocery, the filmmaker Nadine Natour shares the story of her immigrant parents, who own a store in the highly conservative town of Appomattox, Virginia, which voted for President Trump in 2016.
GEHAD NATOUR: We know everybody in town.
SABAH NATOUR: Yes.
GEHAD NATOUR: I mean, we don’t have any grudges against any of them, and none of them have grudges against us. They like us.
SABAH NATOUR: Politics, especially when we came, like, really long time ago, it wasn’t that big of a deal. It’s different now maybe.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I think Islam hates us. … There’s a level of hatred within a certain community — in this case, the Muslim community. … We have to look at the Muslims, and we have to do something. We cannot stand by and be the stupid people while our country is destroyed.
GEHAD NATOUR:I have a motto, that: “Do not talk about politics or religion with your customer.” If you do, you lose them.
AMY GOODMAN: The Natours’ store is in the small Virginia town of Appomattox, best known as where Confederate General Robert E. Lee surrendered to Union General Ulysses S. Grant, effectively ending the Civil War in 1865.
APPOMATTOX RESIDENT 1: Appomattox is beautiful.
APPOMATTOX RESIDENT 2: Everybody knows everybody.
APPOMATTOX RESIDENT 3: In between Lynchburg and Richmond.
APPOMATTOX RESIDENT 4: There ain’t much to do around here.
APPOMATTOX RESIDENT 5: A little redneck. Whole lot of redneck.
APPOMATTOX RESIDENT 6: Appomattox is mainly known for the end of the Civil War, where Robert E. Lee surrendered to Ulysses S. Grant, the “War of Northern Aggression.” I won’t say that.
NADINE NATOUR: No, actually, you did.
APPOMATTOX RESIDENT 6: You got me!
AMY GOODMAN: For the Natours, their roots are thousands of miles away, in Palestine.
GEHAD NATOUR: I was born and raised in Qalansawe, in Palestine. In 1948, Palestine was occupied by Israel. The only jobs for us was laborers at Jewish settlements, and I couldn’t do that. So I decided to become a farmer. I got enough money to buy a ticket to the United States.
AMY GOODMAN: While the Natours say they don’t talk about politics or religion with their customers, Sabah Natour does share some of her cultural heritage.
SABAH NATOUR: Hey, would you like to try my dessert I made? It’s like a Mediterranean dessert. This is baklava. It’s made with layer pastries and nuts and spices.
CUSTOMER 1: OK.
SABAH NATOUR: And this is made out of cream wheat.
CUSTOMER 1: Oh.
SABAH NATOUR: So, I started to bring in desserts.
CUSTOMER 2: This is good, right there.
SABAH NATOUR: It was kind of like building bridges between us and the customers.
AMY GOODMAN: While the Natours build bridges with their neighbors, President Trump’s anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim rhetoric has inspired a backlash in Appomattox.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: If you’re not happy in the U.S., if you’re complaining all the time, very simply, you can leave. You can leave right now.
REPORTER: A Virginia church is echoing that sentiment with this billboard that says “America: Love it or leave it.” Pastor E.W. Lucas put up the sign at Friendship Baptist Church in Appomattox. Some members of his church led the congregation out of the service in a stance against him.
CUSTOMER 3: When I saw it on the news last week, I told my wife; I said, “I’m going to church Sunday.”
SABAH NATOUR: You’re going to church Sunday?
CUSTOMER 3: I’m going over.
SABAH NATOUR: To do what?
CUSTOMER 3: Just to —
SABAH NATOUR: To do what?
CUSTOMER 3: Just to support that preacher.
SABAH NATOUR: To support the preachers?
CUSTOMER 3: That’s right.
SABAH NATOUR: Why? Why isn’t — the church is supposed to have everybody?
CUSTOMER 3: Because his congregation — his congregation abandoned him and walked out.
PASTOR E.W. LUCAS: The Bible inspired the Declaration of Independence. We got our system of government from the Bible. Don’t talk to me about that flag out yonder or that sign out yonder. This is our country! And it was our country long before they ever came across the waters and got over here! [singing] My country, ’tis of thee.
AMY GOODMAN: Excerpts from the short documentary Natours Grocery. It premieres tonight as part of the POV Shorts on PBS. We’re joined by the film’s director, Nadine Natour. She was an associate producer on the Oscar-nominated film RBG. Nadine here is telling her own family’s story. Those are her parents who run the grocery store. She’s the oldest of four daughters.
Nadine, thanks so much for joining us on Democracy Now! We don’t have much time, and I want you to get to the heart of this story, your growing up in one of the most conservative areas of the United States, and how, from you to your youngest sister, you feel the area has changed.
NADINE NATOUR: Thanks so much for having me, Amy.
Yes. So, while I was growing up, I really didn’t pay that much attention to being Muslim, to being Arab. My parents came from Palestine, and it was just sort of part of growing up. We didn’t — we’re a secular family, didn’t pay too much attention to that. But as the years progressed and we saw different administrations come and go, and the climate for American Muslims became a bit more worrisome.
So, in the election of Donald Trump, we saw a lot of that bubbling racist sentiment towards immigrants, towards Muslim, become part of the mainstream discourse. And whereas I really never thought about it, when it comes to my youngest sister, who you see in the film, she fended off ignorant comments or attacks on her heritage as she was going through school. So, you really could see a shift in the attitude towards Muslims, towards immigrants, and especially with the election of Donald Trump, the underlying discourse sort of was brought out into the open.
AMY GOODMAN: Your father is known as “G” by the community, as he runs Natours Grocery. His name actually is Gehad, is that right?
NADINE NATOUR: Yes, that’s correct.
AMY GOODMAN: Did he shorten it because he felt it might not go over well in this part of the country?
NADINE NATOUR: You know, at the time, I don’t think that association was being made yet. And he probably just wanted people to have the ease of saying a name quickly, just as many immigrants are looking for ways to sort of adapt and blend in with the community that becomes their new home. But, yes, his name is Gehad.
AMY GOODMAN: And after 9/11, how you felt?
NADINE NATOUR: You know, after 9/11, there wasn’t necessarily a huge shift in my experience. But for someone — my sister was born the day after. So, for someone like her, it really made a difference in the way that she experienced, you know, feeling like a part of the town. But this was what I really wanted to explore in the film, was that we really felt a tremendous amount of love from the people in our town, and it was interesting to me to talk to our customers and people in Appomattox about why they voted for someone who was saying anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim sentiments as part of their campaign and as part of their platform. And I think it’s important that no matter who gets into office in the next election, that we sort of make sure we can protect the Muslim America as part of — as part of the country.
AMY GOODMAN: And I wanted to bring in Julie Cohen, finally, the producer of this film, who also produced and directed the Oscar-nominated film RBG. Julie, why you got involved with Nadine’s film?
JULIE COHEN: First of all, because my belief in Nadine as a filmmaker, but also just the story of her family is so incredible. I mean, you hear those soundbites at the beginning and that you were mentioning of Donald Trump saying Muslims hate this country. I mean, when you see this film, Nadine’s family represents, in every way, so beautifully, the American dream. And to think that there’s this huge misunderstanding, at best, and, you know, just really, really ugly hatred, at worst, it just feels like it’s a misunderstanding that really needs some clearing up. And Nadine has done a gorgeous job of doing that.
AMY GOODMAN: And, Julie, as you did RBG, your thoughts today on what is the probable confirmation vote for Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett? We have 15 seconds.
JULIE COHEN: Well, you know, it looks like it’s happening. If there were ever a time that we needed a voice of dissent, what Justice Ginsburg so beautifully provided, it’s now. I think, you know, with the threat of rights being peeled back, I think many of us are concerned that Amy Coney Barrett [inaudible] —
AMY GOODMAN: We have to leave it there. Thank you so much, Julie Cohen and Nadine Natour.


democracynow--2020-10-26--"They Wanted to Take My Womb Out": Survivor of Medical Abuse in ICE Jail Deported After Speaking Out

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : At least 19 women have now come forward to allege they were pressured into unnecessary gynecological treatment and surgeries , including procedures that left them sterile , while they were imprisoned by Immigration and Customs Enforcement at the Irwin County Detention Center in Georgia .
The women are mostly Black and Latina .
They were all patients of Dr. Mahendra Amin , the primary gynecologist linked to the jail .
In a shocking new report submitted to Congress Thursday , an independent @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and two nursing experts examined more than 3,200 pages of the women ’ s medical records and said they found a lack of informed consent and a , quote , “ disturbing pattern ” of questionable gynecological surgical procedures .
Today they ’ ll present their findings to the Senate Democratic Caucus .
This comes after whistleblowing nurse Dawn Wooten first spoke out in September about an alarmingly high rate of hysterectomies performed on women at the ICE jail , prompting congressional and federal investigations .
An ICE spokesperson said the allegations in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ “ serious concerns that deserve to be investigated quickly and thoroughly.
” Meanwhile , the private prison company that operates Irwin , LaSalle Corrections , said it could not comment during the impending investigation .
For more , we ’ re joined by three guests .
Jaromy Floriano Navarro is a survivor of medical abuse and neglect at Irwin .
She was the original source of the information about a medical abuse by Dr. Mahendra Amin that was eventually included in the whistleblower report .
She is in Mexico right now .
Also @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , is Dr. Maggie Mueller .
She was part of the independent medical review team that produced the new report .
She ’ s an assistant professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Northwestern Medical Center .
And we ’ re joined by Democratic Congressmember Adriano Espaillat of New York , who was part of a delegation from the Congressional Hispanic Caucus that visited the Irwin County Jail in September , where he met with jailed women who allege Dr. Amin conducted unnecessary medical procedures on them without their full knowledge and consent .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ and the first formerly undocumented immigrant to serve in Congress .
We welcome you all to Democracy Now !
I want to begin with the doctor .
Dr. Mueller , if you can talk about what you found happened at Irwin ?
DR. MAGGIE MUELLER : Absolutely .
So , what we were able to identify , there is really what we think is a concerning pattern of , number one , overly aggressive management of women ’ s complaints , or lack thereof complaints , actually , as well as significant lack @ @ @ @ @ @ @ underwent procedures , that they then acknowledged they didn ’ t understand they were going to undergo .
AMY GOODMAN : And talk about how extensive this was , what these procedures were .
We ’ re not talking about one woman or two women ; we ’ re talking about at least 19 women .
What were they told ?
Where did this happen ?
And how many do you understand were actually given hysterectomies without their knowledge ?
DR. MAGGIE MUELLER : Yeah , so , I think that ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ So , as you said , we did review 19 cases where we had medical records of women who received care with Dr. Amin .
What I mentioned is a pattern , the pattern of overly aggressive procedures .
This is not necessarily focusing on hysterectomy or sterilization procedures , but still important surgical procedures that can have implications later on in life , so , for example , taking a patient that really didn ’ t have any gynecologic complaints , not working them up appropriately , and then performing additional procedures @ @ @ @ @ @ @ diagnostic laparoscopic procedure , and then recommending even more aggressive therapy .
AMY GOODMAN : What does he gain by doing this ?
I ask this because in 2013 Georgia and federal investigators sued Dr. Amin — this is like seven years ago — the Hospital Authority of Irwin County and a group of other doctors over allegations they falsely billed Medicare and Medicaid .
Does he make money off of these hysterectomies ?
DR. MAGGIE MUELLER : Well , honestly , I think that ’ s outside of my ability to make @ @ @ @ @ @ @ medical witness .
I ’ m able to review medical records and determine whether or not the standard of care was breached .
I can ’ t comment as to what the motivation behind this was , but certainly it warrants further investigation .
And that ’ s what we are asking for with this report .
AMY GOODMAN : Well , I want to go to Jaromy Floriano Navarro .
We are speaking to you in Aguascalientes , Mexico .
Can you talk about when you were held at Irwin and what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : Yes , of course .
I was held in Irwin from October 18th , 2019 , all the way to September 15th , 2020 .
And I met Dr. Amin March of 2020 , because I told the nurse that I had heavy cramps and that all I wanted was some medication , like ibuprofen or something .
But instead , she sent me to Dr. Amin for my cramps , and I also had an infection , a vaginal infection .
And from day one that I met Dr. Amin , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ need surgery.
” He did a ultrasound , vaginal ultrasound , with a wand .
And I didn ’ t even know he was going to do that .
To be honest with you , I didn ’ t know that I was going to have to take my pants off or lay on that bed and let him look at me .
I didn ’ t know that .
Nobody ever told me that I was going have a vaginal ultrasound .
And from the moment — AMY GOODMAN : Was he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Irwin jail ?
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO : No , it was not at the Irwin County Jail ; it was at his office , yes .
AMY GOODMAN : So you were brought there from the detention facility .
So , go on from there .
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO : Yes , they took me there .
I was there about 40 times from March to September , to be honest with you .
He told me right off the bat ; he said , “ You have a cyst .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it could grow .
And we need to do a surgery.
” That was the first time I had ever heard I had a cyst or seen him , and he told me right off the bat .
I was super afraid .
I didn ’ t know what a cyst was or how it formed .
He didn ’ t explain to me none of the above .
He didn ’ t care .
He just wanted to do the surgery .
He gave medication for my infection , and then he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a Depo shot on me , because that would help the cyst go away .
Basically , I didn ’ t have a choice .
He said that Irwin County Detention Center is no good at keeping up with any medication and that the Depo shot would be the most effective and that it would work for my favor because I didn ’ t have to depend on Irwin County Detention Center to give me my pills , which it would be any other type of medication for hormones .
So , I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so I had to pick the Depo .
After the Depo , I was bleeding .
I wasn ’ t bleeding heavy , but I was spotting for an entire month .
And I told the nurse that I was spotting after the Depo .
And I have two kids .
I ’ ve had the Depo before .
I had never experienced those type of symptoms .
They took me back to see Dr. Amin from March to July at least [ a handful of times . ]
They would take me @ @ @ @ @ @ @ He would — he would always check me .
If it wasn ’ t with his fingers , then it would be with the wand .
And to be honest with you , it was uncomfortable each and every time .
I didn ’ t like anything he ever did .
I didn ’ t like his posture .
I didn ’ t like the way he stood in front of me or rested his hand on my knee as he did the vaginal search or whatever he was doing .
And it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you .
He kept telling me , every single time I would see him , that I was going to have a surgery .
But for some reason , I never knew when the surgery was going to be .
Finally , when it came time for me to have my second round or my second dose , whatever , my second round of the Depo shot , which was July 31st — JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO : Yes , yes .
He gave me that shot in March .
Then he gave me @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the middle of July .
He was supposed to give me the shot by the endings of June , but he didn ’ t .
And that was the first red flag that I realized , because I thought to myself , “ How is it that he doesn ’ t even know when it ’ s my third-month mark ?
He ’ s not even giving me the shot the way it ’ s supposed to be or by the time it ’ s supposed to be .
How is it that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ if he ’ s not doing this properly ?
” So , that was my first concern .
And I told the nurse ; I told her , “ How is it that he doesn ’ t have any medical records on his computer ?
Doesn ’ t that tell him when it ’ s supposed to be the third month ?
I don ’ t understand why he didn ’ t give me the shot by the endings of June.
” When I complained , they took me back to see him @ @ @ @ @ @ @ around the second week of July .
It was me and Yuridia .
We both went to see him .
And he told her and me that we both needed surgery .
That was also Yuridia ’ s first time seeing Dr. Amin .
AMY GOODMAN : She , too , an immigrant prisoner at Irwin .
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO : Yes .
She had the surgery performed .
I denied it .
So , July 31st was two weeks after we went to see him , and that was the day that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ my surgery .
To my knowledge , as far as the information I was able to collect , I knew that I was going to have my cyst drained , and that was it .
That morning , when Ms. Vaughn [ phon . ]
picked me up , she asked me — as they were putting on the chains on me , she asked me , “ Do you know where you ’ re going , what procedure you ’ re going to have ?
” And I was like , “ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ going to see Dr. Amin to have my cyst drained.
” And she smirked .
She said , “ Hmm !
” And that was it .
And I knew I heard her , but I was just like , “ OK , that was odd .
Whatever.
” And so , they took me to the hospital , which is about — conveniently , it ’ s about 15 — 15 to 10 minutes from Irwin County Detention , top .
And so , we get to the hospital , and , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , they have to do tests on us .
They did the nose swab , and they checked my blood .
They took me to the room to prep me .
I had to sign papers saying — to my knowledge , because the nurse didn ’ t allow me to read the paper even though I wanted to .
She didn ’ t allow me to read the paper , the consent form , which said that if anything happens to me during the surgery , they weren ’ t responsible .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ that ’ s what it said .
And I thought it was just crazy .
Like , how am I signing this paper , although Dr. Amin is telling me that I need this surgery before anything happens to the cyst inside my body ?
I signed the paper .
They took me to the room .
They prepped me up .
They put the IV .
I had to take my clothes off , wait for the anesthesia person to come and put the anesthesia on me to go to sleep .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ and put me to sleep , Ms. Vaughn and I were speaking .
And we were getting to know each other .
She was very polite .
She was showing me pictures of her kids , and we were talking there for a minute , when at the end of the conversation she said , “ You know you ’ re having a hysterectomy.
” I was going to have my womb removed .
And I had heard that word before a lot in Irwin County , so I knew that a hysterectomy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And when she said that , I looked at her , and I didn ’ t say anything .
I just automatically prayed .
I said , “ Lord , did you hear what she said ?
That ’ s outrageous .
What is she talking about ?
” And as soon as I finished my thought , the other officer , who went to get food for them to eat , came back , and he told her , “ Hey , they need to speak with you.
” So , my @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
My heart was already beating fast when she said I was going to have a hysterectomy , but when he said , “ They need to speak with you , ” I knew something wasn ’ t right .
And she came back in the room , and she told me , “ They can ’ t do the surgery because you have antibodies for COVID.
” My whole world sinked at the moment , and I thought I was going to die because of COVID .
I mean , I ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s dirty .
They don ’ t feed us correctly .
They don ’ t take care of us .
They don ’ t care how many medical requests we put for COVID .
They didn ’ t care .
So , I just was like lost , you know , being in a place locked up all day every day with no sunlight , under constant LSD lights .
It ’ s just constant illumination .
It ’ s like a low grade of torture .
So , I just — @ @ @ @ @ @ @ mind as they were telling me I had COVID , antibody COVID .
And luckily , they couldn ’ t do the surgery on me .
They couldn ’ t perform the surgery on me because of the antibodies .
And the nurse came in the room and said that Dr. Amin was going to be pissed because he wasn ’ t going to be able to perform the surgery on me .
And she took the IVs out , and they just told me they ’ ll reschedule it .
And Ms. @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Detention Center .
They had to isolate me for a minute .
And when they took me back to Irwin County Detention Center , they wouldn ’ t tell the other ladies that I had COVID .
They told the ladies that I was going home , and that ’ s why they were taking out my stuff from the pod .
But I was able to kind of tell them before I left , through the window , that I had COVID and that the reason why I wasn ’ t going @ @ @ @ @ @ @ my things out of there was because I had COVID .
And they rescheduled the surgery for August the 14th .
They were in a rush to do this to me .
I was supposed to be gone by the endings of July — by the endings of , excuse me , after July , August .
I was supposed to be gone by August , but they held me there , just trying to do the surgery on me for an entire month and a half .
That ’ s not normal @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
I should have been gone two weeks after that , to be honest with you .
That is how the process goes .
My appeal lasted six months .
I was already there for a long time .
After that month of July , I was supposed to be gone , at least a week or two weeks later .
But , no , they held me there .
They were really trying to do the surgery on me .
For whatever reason , they wanted to take my womb out .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ the 14th , I refused that surgery .
Before August the 14th , I was speaking with Ms. Hughes , and I was telling her , “ Hey , there ’ s something not right , because the officer said I was going to have my womb removed , and I don ’ t appreciate that at all , because that ’ s not what I signed for .
You guys never told me that ’ s what you guys were going to do .
Dr. Amin said he was going to do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he was going to drain my cyst .
He never said anything about going into my vagina , doing anything through my vagina .
He said he was going to drain a cyst , that it was a 20-minute process , three holes on my stomach — one by my belly , by my womb and down , one a little under my womb by my vagina .
That ’ s all he said .
He never said anything about going to my vaginal area.
” But when I told Ms. Hughes this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ times .
She said that Dr. Amin had to request a heavy bleeding procedure , a heavy bleeding surgery on me , because , if not , then ICE would have not approved this process , this procedure .
AMY GOODMAN : Jaromy , when did you get deported in this process ?
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO : In this process , I got deported September 16 , which is the day after the whistleblower report came out .
And I was in shock when I found out that the day after this came @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be honest with you .
After that — AMY GOODMAN : Do you feel like they were deporting you so that you would not speak out ?
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO : Of course .
Of course that ’ s why they were deporting me .
I knew it .
I came back from signing my deportation September 15th , which was the same day that I went back to see Dr. Amin .
And he was pissed .
He was like , “ Why didn ’ t you get the surgery ?
Who @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And I was like , “ Excuse me ?
It was a misunderstanding .
Stories were being changed .
How was I supposed to say yes ?
I ’ m not going to undergo a surgery that I have no knowledge of.
” He was angry , and they deported me the next day .
And that ’ s the day I found out , August — excuse me , September 15th , I found out that there was a report that went viral .
And everybody in Irwin County Detention Center , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was me who had spoken up .
And I just — I was like , “ Yes , it was me .
I told .
I told a lawyer that you guys were doing illegal surgeries here , because that ’ s how I felt.
” AMY GOODMAN : Let me bring in Congressmember Adriano Espaillat .
You went down to Irwin .
You spoke with women there .
You are Dominican American .
You ’ re the first undocumented immigrant to be elected to Congress , formerly undocumented .
Can you talk @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is Jaromy ’ s experience , and what the hearing today is all about in Congress ?
REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT : Well , Amy , just first let me congratulate this young lady for her courage , as well as the whistleblower , who we met with the day before we visited the Irwin correctional detention center .
Look , as I heard her tell her story , the one thing that stood out is that she is very fluent in English .
And most of the ladies there are not .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ kind of treatment and not really understanding what ’ s being said to you .
So , this is a critical piece , because to have informed consent , as you said , Amy , you must understand what they ’ re telling you .
You must understand what your options are and what your condition is .
And so , when we met with the ladies there , let me just say that I was really taken aback by the level of fear that they expressed .
And there was one thing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for us to protect them .
They felt that if they spoke out , they would wind up in solitary confinement .
And so , as the young lady just said , this was sort of like a low grade of torture .
And they expressed how aggressively they were being treated by this doctor .
In fact , there was eight women that we spoke to , and two of them were Asian women from China , and they couldn ’ t — they didn ’ t have a translator there , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to them .
But out of the other six , four of them had been treated by Dr. Amin , so — and they all expressed concern as to the aggressiveness of the tests , the lack of information and , as such , the lack of an informed consent .
And so , this is the critical piece right here .
Were they consenting to these very aggressive treatments or procedures ?
And if so — and if not , then , you know , they ’ re clear violation .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ m calling for the shutdown of the center and the arrest — any doctor that would subject his patients to this type of treatment anywhere in America could be subject to be arrested .
And so — AMY GOODMAN : So you ’ re calling for Amin ’ s arrest .
Also — AMY GOODMAN : — clearly , the detention center was working with him .
REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT : Well , that ’ s part of the — that should be part of the investigation .
The detention center , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a privately owned corporation , LaSalle .
We ’ ve got to follow the money and see whether there was any profit incentive to aggressively submit these women to these very aggressive procedures , that I suspect are also more expensive .
And so they cost more money .
So , we want to see whether there was also a profit incentive to subject the women to this kind of what the young lady calls low grade of torture .
So , yes , there should be a very deep and extensive investigation @ @ @ @ @ @ @ if this is just isolated , or is it a common practice in detention centers across America , as well .
AMY GOODMAN : How do you know the women who are being held there right now are not being subjected to the same thing ?
REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT : That ’ s correct .
They could continue to be — this doctor has a problem history with Medicaid fraud .
And , as well , the women have expressed to us , the ones that we spoke to , their fear that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
We don ’ t know if they ’ re still big subjected to the same kind of treatment that they have been subjected to for many , many years .
So , we are concerned .
The whistleblower was very specific as to her denunciations .
And we ’ re proud of her courage , as well .
But this must be investigated .
This is horrendous .
One of the women that I spoke to , a Dominican woman , told me that she was treated like an animal .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Consulate in Georgia and Florida , in Miami , Florida .
And five of the Dominican women , who wanted to either be released or deported back home , were sent back home .
ICE alleged that the Dominican government never gave them the documents that they needed .
When we called the Dominican government , the consulate , they told us that they were never contacted .
So , this hurry to extend the stay there for as long as possible to get in these procedures is highly questionable , if not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ two quick questions before we go .
Did you say you were chained to the bed ?
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO : No , no , I was not chained to the bed .
AMY GOODMAN : And are you asking to be let back into the United States ?
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO : Of course I am .
I deserve .
I deserve to be let back in the United States .
AMY GOODMAN : And so , let me ask Congressmember Adriano Espaillat : Can Jaomy Floriano Navarro — how could this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has identified here ?
A Cameroonian , one of the Cameroonian women — two were deported , but one whose sterilization became very well known was actually taken off the flight in Chicago to be deported , so she has remained now in the United States .
Can Jaromy Floriano Navarro — can you facilitate her return ?
REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT : We will fight to bring her back .
She is a victim .
And she was subject to what she called a low grade of torture , what I think is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ She should be allowed back in and treated .
Certainly , my office will be willing to work with the lawyers and with her to see if there ’ s a way that we can bring her back to the United States .
I am also concerned that these women were readily and speedily ushered out of the United States to prevent them , to silence them , to keep them from saying their stories as the story was well and eloquently said today .
It ’ s horrendous .
This is the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from the women that we interviewed at the detention center .
And this must be fully investigated .
Irwin must be shut down .
Dr. Amin must be arrested .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to thank you all for being with us .
Congressmember Adriano Espaillat is speaking to us , congressmember from New York , again , the first formerly undocumented immigrant to become a member of Congress .
Jaromy Floriano Navarro , speaking to us from Mexico , where the U.S. deported her to , she is demanding to be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a survivor of Dr. Amin .
And Dr. Maggie Mueller of the Northwestern Medical Center in Chicago , who has done the big report , that we will link to , talking about the number of women — almost 20 — that they know of , who experienced these kinds of threats or actual sterilizations or surgeries without proper informed consent .
When we come back , we share the story of a Palestinian American family living in Trump country , in the very conservative town of Appomattox , Virginia .
We ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ her family .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: At least 19 women have now come forward to allege they were pressured into unnecessary gynecological treatment and surgeries, including procedures that left them sterile, while they were imprisoned by Immigration and Customs Enforcement at the Irwin County Detention Center in Georgia. The women are mostly Black and Latina. They were all patients of Dr. Mahendra Amin, the primary gynecologist linked to the jail.
In a shocking new report submitted to Congress Thursday, an independent medical review team of nine board-certified OB-GYNs and two nursing experts examined more than 3,200 pages of the women’s medical records and said they found a lack of informed consent and a, quote, “disturbing pattern” of questionable gynecological surgical procedures. Today they’ll present their findings to the Senate Democratic Caucus.
This comes after whistleblowing nurse Dawn Wooten first spoke out in September about an alarmingly high rate of hysterectomies performed on women at the ICE jail, prompting congressional and federal investigations. An ICE spokesperson said the allegations in the new report raise, quote, “serious concerns that deserve to be investigated quickly and thoroughly.” Meanwhile, the private prison company that operates Irwin, LaSalle Corrections, said it could not comment during the impending investigation.
For more, we’re joined by three guests. Jaromy Floriano Navarro is a survivor of medical abuse and neglect at Irwin. She was the original source of the information about a medical abuse by Dr. Mahendra Amin that was eventually included in the whistleblower report. She is in Mexico right now.
Also with us, from Chicago, Illinois, is Dr. Maggie Mueller. She was part of the independent medical review team that produced the new report. She’s an assistant professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Northwestern Medical Center.
And we’re joined by Democratic Congressmember Adriano Espaillat of New York, who was part of a delegation from the Congressional Hispanic Caucus that visited the Irwin County Jail in September, where he met with jailed women who allege Dr. Amin conducted unnecessary medical procedures on them without their full knowledge and consent. Congressmember Espaillat is the first Dominican American and the first formerly undocumented immigrant to serve in Congress.
We welcome you all to Democracy Now! I want to begin with the doctor. Dr. Mueller, if you can talk about what you found happened at Irwin?
DR. MAGGIE MUELLER: Absolutely. So, what we were able to identify, there is really what we think is a concerning pattern of, number one, overly aggressive management of women’s complaints, or lack thereof complaints, actually, as well as significant lack of informed consent for these women who underwent procedures, that they then acknowledged they didn’t understand they were going to undergo.
AMY GOODMAN: And talk about how extensive this was, what these procedures were. We’re not talking about one woman or two women; we’re talking about at least 19 women. What were they told? Where did this happen? And how many do you understand were actually given hysterectomies without their knowledge?
DR. MAGGIE MUELLER: Yeah, so, I think that’s a very important point of clarification. So, as you said, we did review 19 cases where we had medical records of women who received care with Dr. Amin. What I mentioned is a pattern, the pattern of overly aggressive procedures. This is not necessarily focusing on hysterectomy or sterilization procedures, but still important surgical procedures that can have implications later on in life, so, for example, taking a patient that really didn’t have any gynecologic complaints, not working them up appropriately, and then performing additional procedures like a dilation and curettage or a diagnostic laparoscopic procedure, and then recommending even more aggressive therapy.
AMY GOODMAN: What does he gain by doing this? I ask this because in 2013 Georgia and federal investigators sued Dr. Amin — this is like seven years ago — the Hospital Authority of Irwin County and a group of other doctors over allegations they falsely billed Medicare and Medicaid. Does he make money off of these hysterectomies?
DR. MAGGIE MUELLER: Well, honestly, I think that’s outside of my ability to make a determination. I am an expert medical witness. I’m able to review medical records and determine whether or not the standard of care was breached. I can’t comment as to what the motivation behind this was, but certainly it warrants further investigation. And that’s what we are asking for with this report.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to go to Jaromy Floriano Navarro. We are speaking to you in Aguascalientes, Mexico. Can you talk about when you were held at Irwin and what happened to you?
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO: Yes, of course. I was held in Irwin from October 18th, 2019, all the way to September 15th, 2020. And I met Dr. Amin March of 2020, because I told the nurse that I had heavy cramps and that all I wanted was some medication, like ibuprofen or something. But instead, she sent me to Dr. Amin for my cramps, and I also had an infection, a vaginal infection.
And from day one that I met Dr. Amin, he said, “OK, you need surgery.” He did a ultrasound, vaginal ultrasound, with a wand. And I didn’t even know he was going to do that. To be honest with you, I didn’t know that I was going to have to take my pants off or lay on that bed and let him look at me. I didn’t know that. Nobody ever told me that I was going have a vaginal ultrasound. And from the moment —
AMY GOODMAN: Was he doing this in his office or at the Irwin jail?
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO: No, it was not at the Irwin County Jail; it was at his office, yes.
AMY GOODMAN: So you were brought there from the detention facility. So, go on from there.
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO: Yes, they took me there. I was there about 40 times from March to September, to be honest with you. He told me right off the bat; he said, “You have a cyst. And it’s not big, but it could grow. And we need to do a surgery.” That was the first time I had ever heard I had a cyst or seen him, and he told me right off the bat. I was super afraid. I didn’t know what a cyst was or how it formed. He didn’t explain to me none of the above. He didn’t care. He just wanted to do the surgery.
He gave medication for my infection, and then he said that he was going to put a Depo shot on me, because that would help the cyst go away. Basically, I didn’t have a choice. He said that Irwin County Detention Center is no good at keeping up with any medication and that the Depo shot would be the most effective and that it would work for my favor because I didn’t have to depend on Irwin County Detention Center to give me my pills, which it would be any other type of medication for hormones. So, I was left with no choice, and so I had to pick the Depo.
After the Depo, I was bleeding. I wasn’t bleeding heavy, but I was spotting for an entire month. And I told the nurse that I was spotting after the Depo. And I have two kids. I’ve had the Depo before. I had never experienced those type of symptoms.
They took me back to see Dr. Amin from March to July at least [a handful of times.] They would take me out constantly to go see him. He would — he would always check me. If it wasn’t with his fingers, then it would be with the wand. And to be honest with you, it was uncomfortable each and every time. I didn’t like anything he ever did. I didn’t like his posture. I didn’t like the way he stood in front of me or rested his hand on my knee as he did the vaginal search or whatever he was doing. And it was uncomfortable, to be honest with you.
He kept telling me, every single time I would see him, that I was going to have a surgery. But for some reason, I never knew when the surgery was going to be. Finally, when it came time for me to have my second round or my second dose, whatever, my second round of the Depo shot, which was July 31st —
AMY GOODMAN: You’re talking about the drug Depo-Provera.
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO: Yes, yes. He gave me that shot in March. Then he gave me that shot again in July, about the middle of July. He was supposed to give me the shot by the endings of June, but he didn’t. And that was the first red flag that I realized, because I thought to myself, “How is it that he doesn’t even know when it’s my third-month mark? He’s not even giving me the shot the way it’s supposed to be or by the time it’s supposed to be. How is it that my cyst is going to go away if he’s not doing this properly?” So, that was my first concern.
And I told the nurse; I told her, “How is it that he doesn’t have any medical records on his computer? Doesn’t that tell him when it’s supposed to be the third month? I don’t understand why he didn’t give me the shot by the endings of June.” When I complained, they took me back to see him, around June 12th. It was around the second week of July. It was me and Yuridia. We both went to see him. And he told her and me that we both needed surgery. That was also Yuridia’s first time seeing Dr. Amin.
AMY GOODMAN: She, too, an immigrant prisoner at Irwin.
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO: Yes. She had the surgery performed. I denied it. So, July 31st was two weeks after we went to see him, and that was the day that it was recorded for me to have my surgery. To my knowledge, as far as the information I was able to collect, I knew that I was going to have my cyst drained, and that was it. That morning, when Ms. Vaughn [phon.] picked me up, she asked me — as they were putting on the chains on me, she asked me, “Do you know where you’re going, what procedure you’re going to have?” And I was like, “No. I think I’m going to see Dr. Amin to have my cyst drained.” And she smirked. She said, “Hmm!” And that was it. And I knew I heard her, but I was just like, “OK, that was odd. Whatever.”
And so, they took me to the hospital, which is about — conveniently, it’s about 15 — 15 to 10 minutes from Irwin County Detention, top. And so, we get to the hospital, and, you know, because of the pandemic, they have to do tests on us. They did the nose swab, and they checked my blood. They took me to the room to prep me. I had to sign papers saying — to my knowledge, because the nurse didn’t allow me to read the paper even though I wanted to. She didn’t allow me to read the paper, the consent form, which said that if anything happens to me during the surgery, they weren’t responsible. So I knew that she said that that’s what it said. And I thought it was just crazy. Like, how am I signing this paper, although Dr. Amin is telling me that I need this surgery before anything happens to the cyst inside my body? I signed the paper. They took me to the room. They prepped me up. They put the IV. I had to take my clothes off, wait for the anesthesia person to come and put the anesthesia on me to go to sleep.
Before the anesthesia person could come in and put me to sleep, Ms. Vaughn and I were speaking. And we were getting to know each other. She was very polite. She was showing me pictures of her kids, and we were talking there for a minute, when at the end of the conversation she said, “You know you’re having a hysterectomy.” I was going to have my womb removed. And I had heard that word before a lot in Irwin County, so I knew that a hysterectomy was to remove our woman parts. And when she said that, I looked at her, and I didn’t say anything. I just automatically prayed. I said, “Lord, did you hear what she said? That’s outrageous. What is she talking about?”
And as soon as I finished my thought, the other officer, who went to get food for them to eat, came back, and he told her, “Hey, they need to speak with you.” So, my heart just raced when he said that. My heart was already beating fast when she said I was going to have a hysterectomy, but when he said, “They need to speak with you,” I knew something wasn’t right.
And she came back in the room, and she told me, “They can’t do the surgery because you have antibodies for COVID.” My whole world sinked at the moment, and I thought I was going to die because of COVID. I mean, I’ve been locked in there. It’s dirty. They don’t feed us correctly. They don’t take care of us. They don’t care how many medical requests we put for COVID. They didn’t care. So, I just was like lost, you know, being in a place locked up all day every day with no sunlight, under constant LSD lights. It’s just constant illumination. It’s like a low grade of torture. So, I just — all of that just ran through my mind as they were telling me I had COVID, antibody COVID. And luckily, they couldn’t do the surgery on me. They couldn’t perform the surgery on me because of the antibodies. And the nurse came in the room and said that Dr. Amin was going to be pissed because he wasn’t going to be able to perform the surgery on me. And she took the IVs out, and they just told me they’ll reschedule it.
And Ms. Vaughn took me back to Irwin County Detention Center. They had to isolate me for a minute. And when they took me back to Irwin County Detention Center, they wouldn’t tell the other ladies that I had COVID. They told the ladies that I was going home, and that’s why they were taking out my stuff from the pod. But I was able to kind of tell them before I left, through the window, that I had COVID and that the reason why I wasn’t going back in there and they were taking my things out of there was because I had COVID.
And they rescheduled the surgery for August the 14th. They were in a rush to do this to me. I was supposed to be gone by the endings of July — by the endings of, excuse me, after July, August. I was supposed to be gone by August, but they held me there, just trying to do the surgery on me for an entire month and a half. That’s not normal. My appeal was over July 31st. I should have been gone two weeks after that, to be honest with you. That is how the process goes. My appeal lasted six months. I was already there for a long time. After that month of July, I was supposed to be gone, at least a week or two weeks later. But, no, they held me there. They were really trying to do the surgery on me. For whatever reason, they wanted to take my womb out.
I refused it, though. August the 14th, I refused that surgery. Before August the 14th, I was speaking with Ms. Hughes, and I was telling her, “Hey, there’s something not right, because the officer said I was going to have my womb removed, and I don’t appreciate that at all, because that’s not what I signed for. You guys never told me that’s what you guys were going to do. Dr. Amin said he was going to do a D&C. He said he was going to drain my cyst. He never said anything about going into my vagina, doing anything through my vagina. He said he was going to drain a cyst, that it was a 20-minute process, three holes on my stomach — one by my belly, by my womb and down, one a little under my womb by my vagina. That’s all he said. He never said anything about going to my vaginal area.” But when I told Ms. Hughes this, she changed her story about four times. She said that Dr. Amin had to request a heavy bleeding procedure, a heavy bleeding surgery on me, because, if not, then ICE would have not approved this process, this procedure.
AMY GOODMAN: Jaromy, when did you get deported in this process?
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO: In this process, I got deported September 16, which is the day after the whistleblower report came out. And I was in shock when I found out that the day after this came out, I got deported, to be honest with you. After that —
AMY GOODMAN: Do you feel like they were deporting you so that you would not speak out?
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO: Of course. Of course that’s why they were deporting me. I knew it. I came back from signing my deportation September 15th, which was the same day that I went back to see Dr. Amin. And he was pissed. He was like, “Why didn’t you get the surgery? Who told you to say no?” And I was like, “Excuse me? It was a misunderstanding. Stories were being changed. How was I supposed to say yes? I’m not going to undergo a surgery that I have no knowledge of.” He was angry, and they deported me the next day.
And that’s the day I found out, August — excuse me, September 15th, I found out that there was a report that went viral. And everybody in Irwin County Detention Center, the officers were all asking if it was me who had spoken up. And I just — I was like, “Yes, it was me. I told. I told a lawyer that you guys were doing illegal surgeries here, because that’s how I felt.”
AMY GOODMAN: Let me bring in Congressmember Adriano Espaillat. You went down to Irwin. You spoke with women there. You are Dominican American. You’re the first undocumented immigrant to be elected to Congress, formerly undocumented. Can you talk about what you found, how typical is Jaromy’s experience, and what the hearing today is all about in Congress?
REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT: Well, Amy, just first let me congratulate this young lady for her courage, as well as the whistleblower, who we met with the day before we visited the Irwin correctional detention center.
Look, as I heard her tell her story, the one thing that stood out is that she is very fluent in English. And most of the ladies there are not. And so, imagine being subjected to this kind of treatment and not really understanding what’s being said to you. So, this is a critical piece, because to have informed consent, as you said, Amy, you must understand what they’re telling you. You must understand what your options are and what your condition is.
And so, when we met with the ladies there, let me just say that I was really taken aback by the level of fear that they expressed. And there was one thing that they consistently asked for, was for us to protect them. They felt that if they spoke out, they would wind up in solitary confinement. And so, as the young lady just said, this was sort of like a low grade of torture.
And they expressed how aggressively they were being treated by this doctor. In fact, there was eight women that we spoke to, and two of them were Asian women from China, and they couldn’t — they didn’t have a translator there, so we couldn’t really speak to them. But out of the other six, four of them had been treated by Dr. Amin, so — and they all expressed concern as to the aggressiveness of the tests, the lack of information and, as such, the lack of an informed consent.
And so, this is the critical piece right here. Were they consenting to these very aggressive treatments or procedures? And if so — and if not, then, you know, they’re clear violation. And we’re calling for — I’m calling for the shutdown of the center and the arrest — any doctor that would subject his patients to this type of treatment anywhere in America could be subject to be arrested. And so —
AMY GOODMAN: So you’re calling for Amin’s arrest. Also —
REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT: I’m calling for —
AMY GOODMAN: — clearly, the detention center was working with him.
REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT: Well, that’s part of the — that should be part of the investigation. The detention center, as you know, is run by a privately owned corporation, LaSalle. We’ve got to follow the money and see whether there was any profit incentive to aggressively submit these women to these very aggressive procedures, that I suspect are also more expensive. And so they cost more money. So, we want to see whether there was also a profit incentive to subject the women to this kind of what the young lady calls low grade of torture. So, yes, there should be a very deep and extensive investigation on this. We want to know if this is just isolated, or is it a common practice in detention centers across America, as well.
AMY GOODMAN: How do you know the women who are being held there right now are not being subjected to the same thing?
REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT: That’s correct. They could continue to be — this doctor has a problem history with Medicaid fraud. And, as well, the women have expressed to us, the ones that we spoke to, their fear that they will be subjected to solitary confinement. We don’t know if they’re still big subjected to the same kind of treatment that they have been subjected to for many, many years. So, we are concerned. The whistleblower was very specific as to her denunciations. And we’re proud of her courage, as well. But this must be investigated. This is horrendous.
One of the women that I spoke to, a Dominican woman, told me that she was treated like an animal. And we were able to contact the Dominican Consulate in Georgia and Florida, in Miami, Florida. And five of the Dominican women, who wanted to either be released or deported back home, were sent back home. ICE alleged that the Dominican government never gave them the documents that they needed. When we called the Dominican government, the consulate, they told us that they were never contacted. So, this hurry to extend the stay there for as long as possible to get in these procedures is highly questionable, if not criminal.
AMY GOODMAN: Jaromy, two quick questions before we go. Did you say you were chained to the bed?
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO: No, no, I was not chained to the bed.
AMY GOODMAN: And are you asking to be let back into the United States?
JAROMY FLORIANO NAVARRO: Of course I am. I deserve. I deserve to be let back in the United States.
AMY GOODMAN: And so, let me ask Congressmember Adriano Espaillat: Can Jaomy Floriano Navarro — how could this deportation be reversed, given what she has identified here? A Cameroonian, one of the Cameroonian women — two were deported, but one whose sterilization became very well known was actually taken off the flight in Chicago to be deported, so she has remained now in the United States. Can Jaromy Floriano Navarro — can you facilitate her return?
REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT: We will fight to bring her back. She is a victim. And she was subject to what she called a low grade of torture, what I think is also a low grade of torture. She should be allowed back in and treated. Certainly, my office will be willing to work with the lawyers and with her to see if there’s a way that we can bring her back to the United States.
I am also concerned that these women were readily and speedily ushered out of the United States to prevent them, to silence them, to keep them from saying their stories as the story was well and eloquently said today. It’s horrendous. This is the same kind of stories that we heard from the women that we interviewed at the detention center. And this must be fully investigated. Irwin must be shut down. Dr. Amin must be arrested.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you all for being with us. Congressmember Adriano Espaillat is speaking to us, congressmember from New York, again, the first formerly undocumented immigrant to become a member of Congress. Jaromy Floriano Navarro, speaking to us from Mexico, where the U.S. deported her to, she is demanding to be let back into the United States, a survivor of Dr. Amin. And Dr. Maggie Mueller of the Northwestern Medical Center in Chicago, who has done the big report, that we will link to, talking about the number of women — almost 20 — that they know of, who experienced these kinds of threats or actual sterilizations or surgeries without proper informed consent.
When we come back, we share the story of a Palestinian American family living in Trump country, in the very conservative town of Appomattox, Virginia. We’ll speak to filmmaker Nadine Natour about her family. Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-10-26--Headlines for October 26, 2020

Headlines for October 26, 2020

Confirmed cases of COVID-19 are continuing to surge in the United States as more than 83,000 new infections were recorded on both Friday and Saturday — the highest daily totals since the pandemic started .
Hospitalizations rose in 38 states over the past week .
Total confirmed cases in the U.S. have now topped 8.6 million , with a death toll over 225,000 — both numbers are the highest in the world .
A new outbreak in the White House has infected at least five of Vice President Mike Pence ’ s aides .
In spite of the news , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has tested negative , has continued campaigning and is refusing to quarantine , in defiance of guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention .
White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows was questioned by CNN ’ s Jake Tapper Sunday .
Mark Meadows also confirmed in his interview reports the White House attempted to keep news of the outbreak from the public .
Democratic vice-presidential candidate Kamala Harris spoke out Sunday about her rival Mike Pence .
Sen. Kamala Harris : “ Listen , he should be following the guidelines .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ think that we have modeled the right and good behavior , and they should take our lead.
” Meanwhile , President Trump and Joe Biden continued campaigning over the weekend .
On Friday , Trump told voters in Florida he would “ quickly end this pandemic , ” despite the surging cases across the country .
Meanwhile , Biden told supporters in his home city of Wilmington , Delaware , that Trump has “ quit on America , ” and assured voters he would listen to scientists and push to mandate mask-wearing across @ @ @

Confirmed cases of COVID-19 are continuing to surge in the United States as more than 83,000 new infections were recorded on both Friday and Saturday — the highest daily totals since the pandemic started. Hospitalizations rose in 38 states over the past week. Total confirmed cases in the U.S. have now topped 8.6 million, with a death toll over 225,000 — both numbers are the highest in the world.
A new outbreak in the White House has infected at least five of Vice President Mike Pence’s aides. In spite of the news, Pence, who the White House says has tested negative, has continued campaigning and is refusing to quarantine, in defiance of guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows was questioned by CNN’s Jake Tapper Sunday.
Mark Meadows: “We’re not going to control the pandemic. We are going to control the fact that we get vaccines, therapeutics and other mitigation areas.”
Jake Tapper: “Why aren’t we going to get control of the pandemic?”
Mark Meadows: “Because it is a contagious virus, just like the flu. It’s” —
Jake Tapper: “Yeah, but why not make efforts to contain it?”
Mark Meadows: “Well, we are making efforts to contain it, if that’s” —
Jake Tapper: “By running all over the country not wearing a mask?”
Mark Meadows also confirmed in his interview reports the White House attempted to keep news of the outbreak from the public. Democratic vice-presidential candidate Kamala Harris spoke out Sunday about her rival Mike Pence.
Sen. Kamala Harris: “Listen, he should be following the guidelines. We’re doing it. I think that we have modeled the right and good behavior, and they should take our lead.”
Meanwhile, President Trump and Joe Biden continued campaigning over the weekend. On Friday, Trump told voters in Florida he would “quickly end this pandemic,” despite the surging cases across the country. Meanwhile, Biden told supporters in his home city of Wilmington, Delaware, that Trump has “quit on America,” and assured voters he would listen to scientists and push to mandate mask-wearing across the country.