democracynow--2020-06-22--Five Black & Brown Men Have Been Recently Found Hanged in Public. Were Some of Them Lynched?

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Amidst mass protests against racism and police brutality across the country , at least five men — four Black and one Latinx — have been found hanging in public across the United States in recent weeks .
All five deaths were initially deemed suicides , but community advocates , scholars and those all too familiar with America ’ s racist history say there ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Palmdale , California , authorities are investigating the death of 24-year-old Robert Fuller , a Black man who was found dead , hanged from a tree near the community ’ s City Hall earlier this month .
City officials said he died by suicide , suggesting the cause was due to mental anguish related to the coronavirus pandemic .
But Fuller ’ s loved ones believe he was lynched , and the community has been holding protests calling for justice .
A week after Fuller was found hanged , Los Angeles County sheriff @ @ @ @ @ @ @ brother , Terron Boone , in what authorities described as a shootout in a desert town near Palmdale .
Robert Fuller ’ s death came 10 days after another Black man , 38-year-old Malcolm Harsch , was found hanged from a tree about 50 miles away , in Victorville , California , May 31st .
After calling for further investigation , Malcolm Harsch ’ s family said over the weekend that his death was in fact a suicide and that they had reviewed video footage the police provided .
Community activists are still @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a thorough investigation into his death .
In New York , the New York Police Department is investigating the death of Dominique Alexander , a 27-year-old Black man who was found hanged in a Manhattan park two weeks ago .
The local Medical Examiner ’ s Office ruled the cause of his death suicide .
And in Texas , Congressmember Sheila Jackson Lee of Houston is calling for an investigation after two recent hangings .
Last week , police found a 17-year-old Black boy hanging from a tree in an elementary school playground @ @ @ @ @ @ @ week , a Latinx man was found hanged in Houston .
This all comes as a noose was found in the garage stall of Bubba Wallace , the only African American driver in NASCAR ’ s elite Cup Series .
Wallace recently led a successful campaign to get NASCAR to ban displays of Confederate flags from its events .
Well , for more on this topic , we ’ re going to Durham , North Carolina , to speak with Jacqueline Olive , director of a film called Always in Season .
It @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the history of lynchings in the United States through the story of Lennon Lacy , an African American teenager who was found hanged from a swing set in 2014 .
His mother , Claudia Lacy , believes he was lynched .
Always in Season premiered at the Sundance Film Festival in 2019 .
Well , we ’ re going to go to Jacqueline in a minute , but first , this is the film ’ s trailer .
A warning to our audience : This clip contains violent and racist imagery .
AMY @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Always in Season .
Jacqueline Olive , we welcome you back to Democracy Now !
, under horrible circumstances of one death after another , young African American men hanging from trees in the United States , not 100 or 200 years ago , but in these last weeks .
Can you talk about the significance of this ?
Now , again , family members are not saying absolutely they know what happened in each case , as was the case in the particular hanging you looked at in Always in Season , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ investigations .
Can you start off with the Palmdale hanging in California ?
JACQUELINE OLIVE : Absolutely .
So , these hangings really come out of a climate in the White House in which there is intense vitriol and hatred that ’ s being messaged , and people are being energized and activated around those messages .
You have militia groups that are activated in increasing numbers .
You have increasing numbers of noose incidents , including the one that was found in Oakland , California , last week , incidents in which @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are being threatened with nooses .
And so , as this climate escalates and you have these hanging deaths that are incredibly alarming , then the first question that Black folks often have is whether or not there was lynching involved .
And so , it is really important that when local officials come out to investigate these cases , that they frame their investigation and they frame their look at the evidence in this history , with historic lynchings , but also around the racial violence and division that ’ s going @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , you have Robert Fuller , who was found hanged outside of City Hall in Palmdale .
And then you have Malcolm Harsch , like 60 miles away , found hung near the public library in Victorville .
AMY GOODMAN : Now , the police departments in both these cases immediately closed the investigations and said that it was suicide .
It took enormous pressure from activists in Victorville and the family to finally actually see video that the police had , that showed , in fact , Malcolm Harsch , it did @ @ @ @ @ @ @ life .
That isn ’ t the case for Robert Fuller at this point .
We don ’ t know what ’ s happened .
And then you have these latest hangings of Black and Brown people : Wednesday , police found 17-year-old African American teen hanging from a tree , elementary school playground in Spring , Texas ; on Monday , a Latinx man found hanged in Houston .
And then one here in New York City .
So , talk further about how people can know what police assume and what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Sure .
Well , typical of this case , and it was certainly the case with Lennon Lacy , that I researched really thoroughly as we filmed , is that the police generally show up , and they show up within three days or so , and they ’ ve made their conclusion of suicide .
What they don ’ t take into account is this history or the family ’ s concerns deeply enough that there might have been a lynching and that their family member may have met violence .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Lennon Lacy , is that the police , within — his body was found on August 29th , 20 days after the uprising in Ferguson , Missouri , following the murder of Mike Brown — August 29 , 2014 , on a Friday .
And the police station was closed over the weekend because there was a holiday , and so they didn ’ t come to investigate anything until Tuesday , when they approached Claudia , Lennon ’ s mother .
And they didn ’ t look through his phone , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of anything beyond a suicide , but were really insistent that that was the case .
And I found that this is happening again and again .
And so , families are really calling for there to be a deeper investigation and for justice .
And you had mentioned that the family members of Malcolm Harsch have conceded that he committed suicide .
One of the interesting things , as I was reading — two points that they made , one of which is that the police didn ’ t really investigate his @ @ @ @ @ @ @ suicide — it ended up being a suicide — it ’ s important that they show up and that they investigate it thoroughly , and they didn ’ t do that until there was press attention .
The other comment that was made around the case is that it ’ s a relief that that wasn ’ t a lynching .
I think it ’ s equally as important that in these cases of suicide , that we look closely at that .
And so , in my research , as I was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ found that there were dozens of cases of Black people found hanging publicly since 2000 — since 1995 , actually .
I started looking at the case of Antwan Sedgwick , who was found hanging in Hampton , Virginia , hours after the O.J .
Simpson verdict .
And that case was ruled a suicide .
And so , there have been dozens of deaths , and there , unfortunately , sadly , are not exact numbers .
There ’ s a CDC report that I ’ ve been looking at that says @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of Blacks and that they ’ ve all been males , in this report , 79 hangings that are unsolved between 2000 and 2016 .
And so , you have all of these cases in the midst of violence we know that ’ s not being acknowledged .
If it weren ’ t for the outcry , the public outcry , around Ahmaud Arbery ’ s murder , for example , then the McDaniels , Travis and Gregory McDaniel , and the accomplice would not have been held accountable .
And so , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ when the result is a suicide , there ’ s a justified outcry that comes out of the Black community , but by anyone who ’ s paying attention and concerned , that these might be lynchings .
AMY GOODMAN : I wanted to ask you about the case of “ Tete ” Gulley , a Black transgender woman experiencing homelessness who was found hanging in Portland , Oregon .
It got a lot of attention recently , and , in fact , it got so much attention that a lot of people @ @ @ @ @ @ @ just happened in May of this year , but it was actually a year ago .
The local medical examiner ruled her death to be a suicide , but her family believes she may have been killed .
Now it ’ s getting renewed attention as a result of the hangings in California , Texas and New York have gained national attention .
So , as you point out , it is not only Black men in these cases .
And talk about the significance of the renewed interest in finding out what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s death .
JACQUELINE OLIVE : Yeah .
I think it ’ s important to look at .
I also thought that the death happened on May 27th of this year , but , in fact , it was May 27 , 2019 .
And part of that reason is because the case , the story , was dropped by the press in 2019 and then kicked up with these more recent hanging deaths .
And so , this kind of invisibility that goes with these hanging cases , in general , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ trans people , like “ Tete ” Gulley , for whom the family still believes that she didn ’ t commit suicide .
And the last news reports I saw on the case were from 2019 , until very recently .
And so , that ’ s just an example of how , when we look — one is , when we look at these cases individually , we ’ re not giving the issues the attention that ’ s merited , the issue about collectively what ’ s going on , beyond @ @ @ @ @ @ @ then out when the police decide that they ’ ve figured out or that they ’ ve investigated enough , is that it ’ s important for journalists , in particular , to look at all of it comprehensively and in the context of historic lynching terrorism .
And so , just as with historic lynchings , certainly Black men were the primary victims of lynching , but women and children were also the victims of lynching .
AMY GOODMAN : And can you talk about how these hangings are often after some @ @ @ @ @ @ @ police killing of Michael Brown in 2014 ?
Lennon Lacy , the case you looked at , at Always in Season , that happened right after that .
And then , of course , you have the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis , the police uprising , and then these subsequent hangings .
JACQUELINE OLIVE : And they also come after touchstones that are racialized .
And so , there was an upsurge in noose incidents , threats by noose , when President Obama campaigned for the very first time .
Between @ @ @ @ @ @ @ upsurge that was reported by the Southern Poverty Law Center .
And so , there are these points in which there is some momentum by the Black community , a bit of progress , that ’ s met with backlash .
And there ’ s also these points in which there ’ s this signaling from leadership that violence is OK. And so , you have , out of this , all of this violence that we see , and particularly Black people and Brown people are really tuned into , in ways @ @ @ @ @ @ @ acknowledge .
We see it .
We understand that there are connections between what happens when police shoot Oscar Brown in the back , when they murder George Floyd on video , and these hangings , and that there could possibly be a connection .
And so , the outcry , even when there ’ s a suicide , is out of this sense of urgency that all of these things , including the noose incidents and all of these ways that Black lives are threatened and minimized , they could very easily @ @ @ @ @ @ @ You also have the case in 2018 of the son of a prominent Ferguson activist , Melissa McKinnies , her son found hanging behind the family home in Ferguson .
He was 24 years old .
She says he was lynched .
So , in all of these cases , what are you demanding happens now , Jacqueline ?
JACQUELINE OLIVE : I think that they deserve a full investigation , and that they — and given the context of this history and given what people in communities understand about the racial divisions @ @ @ @ @ @ @ concern , that we look at them more than three days , that they are — and then that they are looked at as a whole , because whether or not these are lynchings or whether or not they ’ re suicides , is there — the question ’ s around : Is there this new trend for Black people to hang themselves publicly ?
There ’ s been historically the stigma for Black people about hanging , and certainly hanging publicly and hanging from trees .
But if these are suicides , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s really important to understand , in addition to understanding what are the issues around structural racism that can increase depression and increase anxiety and the suicide rate for Black people .
Those are all really important to understand .
So , you have , for example , Malcolm Harsch , who was found hanging , and even though the investigation hasn ’ t concluded yet because of toxicology reports , you have him found hanging at a homeless encampment .
And so there are issues about housing instability and insecurity for Black @ @ @ @ @ @ @ important to look at .
AMY GOODMAN : Jacqueline Olive , I want to thank you for being with us .
And again , thank you for your remarkable film , Always in Season — AMY GOODMAN : — a documentary about the history of lynchings in America .
That does it for our show .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Thanks for joining us .
Stay safe .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman. Amidst mass protests against racism and police brutality across the country, at least five men — four Black and one Latinx — have been found hanging in public across the United States in recent weeks. All five deaths were initially deemed suicides, but community advocates, scholars and those all too familiar with America’s racist history say there’s another possibility: lynching.
In Palmdale, California, authorities are investigating the death of 24-year-old Robert Fuller, a Black man who was found dead, hanged from a tree near the community’s City Hall earlier this month. City officials said he died by suicide, suggesting the cause was due to mental anguish related to the coronavirus pandemic. But Fuller’s loved ones believe he was lynched, and the community has been holding protests calling for justice. A week after Fuller was found hanged, Los Angeles County sheriff’s deputies shot and killed his brother, Terron Boone, in what authorities described as a shootout in a desert town near Palmdale.
Robert Fuller’s death came 10 days after another Black man, 38-year-old Malcolm Harsch, was found hanged from a tree about 50 miles away, in Victorville, California, May 31st. After calling for further investigation, Malcolm Harsch’s family said over the weekend that his death was in fact a suicide and that they had reviewed video footage the police provided. Community activists are still asking why it took so long for a thorough investigation into his death.
In New York, the New York Police Department is investigating the death of Dominique Alexander, a 27-year-old Black man who was found hanged in a Manhattan park two weeks ago. The local Medical Examiner’s Office ruled the cause of his death suicide.
And in Texas, Congressmember Sheila Jackson Lee of Houston is calling for an investigation after two recent hangings. Last week, police found a 17-year-old Black boy hanging from a tree in an elementary school playground in Spring, Texas. Earlier that week, a Latinx man was found hanged in Houston.
This all comes as a noose was found in the garage stall of Bubba Wallace, the only African American driver in NASCAR’s elite Cup Series. Wallace recently led a successful campaign to get NASCAR to ban displays of Confederate flags from its events.
Well, for more on this topic, we’re going to Durham, North Carolina, to speak with Jacqueline Olive, director of a film called Always in Season. It’s a devastating documentary that examines the history of lynchings in the United States through the story of Lennon Lacy, an African American teenager who was found hanged from a swing set in 2014. His mother, Claudia Lacy, believes he was lynched. Always in Season premiered at the Sundance Film Festival in 2019. Well, we’re going to go to Jacqueline in a minute, but first, this is the film’s trailer. A warning to our audience: This clip contains violent and racist imagery.
911 DISPATCHER: You said there’s a male suspect hanging from a swing?
CALLER: It’s a Black male subject.
UNIDENTIFIED: I think they hung him up to make it look like a suicide.
PIERRE LACY: It looked like a “back in the day” lynching.
DANNY GLOVER: His body would be hung in the courthouse square for all to see. All white folks are invited to the party.
SHERRILYN IFILL: Lynching was a message crime. They happened in places where the body would be seen. And it’s the public nature of lynching that really condemns the white community, because the idea that people didn’t know — they did know.
HEATHER RATTELADE: As I started researching Black males committing suicide in public over the last few years, I became quite concerned that there may be a bigger, surreptitious movement at play here.
REPORTER: The caption: “Last night pic before the game.”
CLAUDIA LACY: That does not sound like a person that was planning on killing himself.
AMY GOODMAN: That was the trailer for Always in Season.
Jacqueline Olive, we welcome you back to Democracy Now!, under horrible circumstances of one death after another, young African American men hanging from trees in the United States, not 100 or 200 years ago, but in these last weeks. Can you talk about the significance of this? Now, again, family members are not saying absolutely they know what happened in each case, as was the case in the particular hanging you looked at in Always in Season, but they are demanding answers and serious investigations. Can you start off with the Palmdale hanging in California?
JACQUELINE OLIVE: Absolutely. So, these hangings really come out of a climate in the White House in which there is intense vitriol and hatred that’s being messaged, and people are being energized and activated around those messages. You have militia groups that are activated in increasing numbers. You have increasing numbers of noose incidents, including the one that was found in Oakland, California, last week, incidents in which people are being threatened — Black people are being threatened with nooses.
And so, as this climate escalates and you have these hanging deaths that are incredibly alarming, then the first question that Black folks often have is whether or not there was lynching involved. And so, it is really important that when local officials come out to investigate these cases, that they frame their investigation and they frame their look at the evidence in this history, with historic lynchings, but also around the racial violence and division that’s going on currently.
AMY GOODMAN: So, you have Robert Fuller, who was found hanged outside of City Hall in Palmdale. And then you have Malcolm Harsch, like 60 miles away, found hung near the public library in Victorville.
JACQUELINE OLIVE: That’s right.
AMY GOODMAN: Now, the police departments in both these cases immediately closed the investigations and said that it was suicide. It took enormous pressure from activists in Victorville and the family to finally actually see video that the police had, that showed, in fact, Malcolm Harsch, it did look like he had taken his own life. That isn’t the case for Robert Fuller at this point. We don’t know what’s happened. And then you have these latest hangings of Black and Brown people: Wednesday, police found 17-year-old African American teen hanging from a tree, elementary school playground in Spring, Texas; on Monday, a Latinx man found hanged in Houston. And then one here in New York City. So, talk further about how people can know what police assume and what the history is.
JACQUELINE OLIVE: Sure. Well, typical of this case, and it was certainly the case with Lennon Lacy, that I researched really thoroughly as we filmed, is that the police generally show up, and they show up within three days or so, and they’ve made their conclusion of suicide. What they don’t take into account is this history or the family’s concerns deeply enough that there might have been a lynching and that their family member may have met violence.
And so, it was the case with Lennon Lacy, is that the police, within — his body was found on August 29th, 20 days after the uprising in Ferguson, Missouri, following the murder of Mike Brown — August 29, 2014, on a Friday. And the police station was closed over the weekend because there was a holiday, and so they didn’t come to investigate anything until Tuesday, when they approached Claudia, Lennon’s mother. And they didn’t look through his phone, and they didn’t look for evidence of anything beyond a suicide, but were really insistent that that was the case. And I found that this is happening again and again. And so, families are really calling for there to be a deeper investigation and for justice.
And you had mentioned that the family members of Malcolm Harsch have conceded that he committed suicide. One of the interesting things, as I was reading — two points that they made, one of which is that the police didn’t really investigate his case. Even though it was a suicide — it ended up being a suicide — it’s important that they show up and that they investigate it thoroughly, and they didn’t do that until there was press attention.
The other comment that was made around the case is that it’s a relief that that wasn’t a lynching. I think it’s equally as important that in these cases of suicide, that we look closely at that.
And so, in my research, as I was researching for Always in Season, I found that there were dozens of cases of Black people found hanging publicly since 2000 — since 1995, actually. I started looking at the case of Antwan Sedgwick, who was found hanging in Hampton, Virginia, hours after the O.J. Simpson verdict. And that case was ruled a suicide. And so, there have been dozens of deaths, and there, unfortunately, sadly, are not exact numbers. There’s a CDC report that I’ve been looking at that says that there have been 79 unsolved hangings of Blacks and that they’ve all been males, in this report, 79 hangings that are unsolved between 2000 and 2016.
And so, you have all of these cases in the midst of violence we know that’s not being acknowledged. If it weren’t for the outcry, the public outcry, around Ahmaud Arbery’s murder, for example, then the McDaniels, Travis and Gregory McDaniel, and the accomplice would not have been held accountable.
And so, there is a justified outcry. Even when the result is a suicide, there’s a justified outcry that comes out of the Black community, but by anyone who’s paying attention and concerned, that these might be lynchings.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you about the case of “Tete” Gulley, a Black transgender woman experiencing homelessness who was found hanging in Portland, Oregon. It got a lot of attention recently, and, in fact, it got so much attention that a lot of people, including us, thought it had just happened in May of this year, but it was actually a year ago. The local medical examiner ruled her death to be a suicide, but her family believes she may have been killed. Now it’s getting renewed attention as a result of the hangings in California, Texas and New York have gained national attention. So, as you point out, it is not only Black men in these cases. And talk about the significance of the renewed interest in finding out what happened, investigating “Tete” Gulley’s death.
JACQUELINE OLIVE: Yeah. I think it’s important to look at. I also thought that the death happened on May 27th of this year, but, in fact, it was May 27, 2019. And part of that reason is because the case, the story, was dropped by the press in 2019 and then kicked up with these more recent hanging deaths. And so, this kind of invisibility that goes with these hanging cases, in general, is even greater with trans women, trans people, like “Tete” Gulley, for whom the family still believes that she didn’t commit suicide. And the last news reports I saw on the case were from 2019, until very recently.
And so, that’s just an example of how, when we look — one is, when we look at these cases individually, we’re not giving the issues the attention that’s merited, the issue about collectively what’s going on, beyond just dropping in on one case and then out when the police decide that they’ve figured out or that they’ve investigated enough, is that it’s important for journalists, in particular, to look at all of it comprehensively and in the context of historic lynching terrorism. And so, just as with historic lynchings, certainly Black men were the primary victims of lynching, but women and children were also the victims of lynching.
AMY GOODMAN: And can you talk about how these hangings are often after some kind of horrific event, like the police killing of Michael Brown in 2014? Lennon Lacy, the case you looked at, at Always in Season, that happened right after that. And then, of course, you have the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis, the police uprising, and then these subsequent hangings.
JACQUELINE OLIVE: And they also come after touchstones that are racialized. And so, there was an upsurge in noose incidents, threats by noose, when President Obama campaigned for the very first time. Between 2005 and 2008, there was an upsurge that was reported by the Southern Poverty Law Center. And so, there are these points in which there is some momentum by the Black community, a bit of progress, that’s met with backlash. And there’s also these points in which there’s this signaling from leadership that violence is OK.
And so, you have, out of this, all of this violence that we see, and particularly Black people and Brown people are really tuned into, in ways that the mainstream doesn’t necessarily acknowledge. We see it. We understand that there are connections between what happens when police shoot Oscar Brown in the back, when they murder George Floyd on video, and these hangings, and that there could possibly be a connection. And so, the outcry, even when there’s a suicide, is out of this sense of urgency that all of these things, including the noose incidents and all of these ways that Black lives are threatened and minimized, they could very easily result in lynching.
AMY GOODMAN: You also have the case in 2018 of the son of a prominent Ferguson activist, Melissa McKinnies, her son found hanging behind the family home in Ferguson. He was 24 years old. She says he was lynched. So, in all of these cases, what are you demanding happens now, Jacqueline?
JACQUELINE OLIVE: I think that they deserve a full investigation, and that they — and given the context of this history and given what people in communities understand about the racial divisions in these communities and the families’ concern, that we look at them more than three days, that they are — and then that they are looked at as a whole, because whether or not these are lynchings or whether or not they’re suicides, is there — the question’s around: Is there this new trend for Black people to hang themselves publicly? There’s been historically the stigma for Black people about hanging, and certainly hanging publicly and hanging from trees. But if these are suicides, then that’s information that’s really important to understand, in addition to understanding what are the issues around structural racism that can increase depression and increase anxiety and the suicide rate for Black people. Those are all really important to understand.
So, you have, for example, Malcolm Harsch, who was found hanging, and even though the investigation hasn’t concluded yet because of toxicology reports, you have him found hanging at a homeless encampment. And so there are issues about housing instability and insecurity for Black people, in particular, that are important to look at.
AMY GOODMAN: Jacqueline Olive, I want to thank you for being with us. And again, thank you for your remarkable film, Always in Season —
JACQUELINE OLIVE: Thank you, Amy.
AMY GOODMAN: — a documentary about the history of lynchings in America. That does it for our show. I’m Amy Goodman. Thanks for joining us. Stay safe.


democracynow--2020-06-22--"Robert E. Lee Was a Brutal Slave Master": Activist's Call to Rename Louisiana School Goes Viral

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : We ’ re going to talk about the issue of lynching in this country — I ’ m not talking about a hundred years ago , but now — in a moment , but first I want to go to a video that has gone viral .
We ’ re turning to Baton Rouge , Louisiana , where a video of a well-known community activist calling out members of the school board for their racism has gone viral .
The board was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the name of Lee High School , named after Confederate General Robert E. Lee .
This is Gary Chambers Jr. addressing the board member Connie Bernard after he noticed she was online shopping during the meeting .
Bernard can be seen walking out as Chambers speaks .
GARY CHAMBERS JR. : So , I had intended to get up here and talk about how racist Robert E. Lee was , but I ’ m going to talk about you , Connie , sitting over there shopping while we ’ re talking about Robert @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of you shopping , while we ’ re talking about racism and history in this country .
Only white members of this board got up while we were up here talking , too , because you don ’ t give a damn , and it ’ s clear .
But I ’ m going to tell you what the slaves , my ancestors , said about Robert E. Lee , since you don ’ t know history , sister .
Let me tell you that they said , when he got the plantation @ @ @ @ @ @ @ where 27,000 people died , at Gettysburg , Connie — Robert E. Lee was a brutal slave master .
Not only did , when he whooped the slaves , he say , “ Lay it on ’ em hard , ” after he said , “ Lay it on ’ em hard , ” he said , “ Put brine on them , ” so to burn them .
That ’ s what Robert E. Lee did .
And you sit your arrogant self in here and sit on there shopping , while @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people of this community is on display , because you don ’ t give a damn , and you should resign !
You should have resigned two years ago , when you choked a white man in his house .
You should have resigned two weeks ago , when you got on TV and said foolishness .
And you should walk out of here and resign and never come back , because you are the example of racism in this community .
You are horrible .
Now to the rest of the board @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people of this community , and 81 % of them are Black .
And do you need a Klan rally outside , Mr. Gaudet , before you end it ?
Because holding it up means that you put that building in jeopardy .
You do , sir , because all over the country , they ’ re burning stuff down .
And Black folks in this city have stood with protesters .
I ain ’ t seen you elected officials out there with them , making sure that nothing goes south in Baton @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in this community who give a damn , not just when it ’ s comfortable , but every time .
And four years ago , we came down here .
Now , let me say to the Black members of the board , it ’ s the most solidarity I done seen out of y ’ all in forever .
Let ’ s keep at that .
Let ’ s stand on this , moving forward , because we don ’ t need to apologize for Connie , Evelyn .
She showed you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ next to you while you were talking , shopping .
You don ’ t need another example .
Now , when do we , as Baton Rouge , stop being in 1856 ?
If you want to name the building after somebody , how about P.B.S .
Pinchback , the first Black governor of the state of Louisiana , when he was governor during Reconstruction ?
You want another name ?
Oscar Dunn , who was the lieutenant governor of the state of Louisiana in the 1860s , that gave the right for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Ware-Jackson and Tramelle Howard to get here .
You want to name it after somebody from Reconstruction ?
Name it after the people who fought for abolition of slavery .
If you want to name it after somebody , honor the right people , the people who were on the right side of history .
AMY GOODMAN : That ’ s Gary Chambers addressing the East Baton Rouge Parish School Board on Thursday .
They voted unanimously to form a special committee to come up with alternative names for Lee High School .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ back , lynching in America .
Stay with us .
AMY GOODMAN : “ Hold On Just a Little While Longer , ” the Virtual Choir during the Mass Poor People ’ s Assembly and Moral March on Washington .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to talk about the issue of lynching in this country — I’m not talking about a hundred years ago, but now — in a moment, but first I want to go to a video that has gone viral. We’re turning to Baton Rouge, Louisiana, where a video of a well-known community activist calling out members of the school board for their racism has gone viral. The board was meeting to discuss a resolution to change the name of Lee High School, named after Confederate General Robert E. Lee. This is Gary Chambers Jr. addressing the board member Connie Bernard after he noticed she was online shopping during the meeting. Bernard can be seen walking out as Chambers speaks.
GARY CHAMBERS JR.: So, I had intended to get up here and talk about how racist Robert E. Lee was, but I’m going to talk about you, Connie, sitting over there shopping while we’re talking about Robert E. Lee. This is a picture of you shopping, while we’re talking about racism and history in this country. Only white members of this board got up while we were up here talking, too, because you don’t give a damn, and it’s clear.
But I’m going to tell you what the slaves, my ancestors, said about Robert E. Lee, since you don’t know history, sister. Let me tell you that they said, when he got the plantation, after he got off the field where 27,000 people died, at Gettysburg, Connie — Robert E. Lee was a brutal slave master. Not only did, when he whooped the slaves, he say, “Lay it on ’em hard,” after he said, “Lay it on ’em hard,” he said, “Put brine on them,” so to burn them. That’s what Robert E. Lee did.
And you sit your arrogant self in here and sit on there shopping, while the pain and the hurt of the people of this community is on display, because you don’t give a damn, and you should resign! You should have resigned two years ago, when you choked a white man in his house. You should have resigned two weeks ago, when you got on TV and said foolishness. And you should walk out of here and resign and never come back, because you are the example of racism in this community. You are horrible.
Now to the rest of the board. You have an obligation to the people of this community, and 81% of them are Black. And do you need a Klan rally outside, Mr. Gaudet, before you end it? Because holding it up means that you put that building in jeopardy. You do, sir, because all over the country, they’re burning stuff down. And Black folks in this city have stood with protesters. I ain’t seen you elected officials out there with them, making sure that nothing goes south in Baton Rouge. It’s been folks in this community who give a damn, not just when it’s comfortable, but every time. And four years ago, we came down here.
Mr. Drake, they say you’re a good man. Be a good man. Black folks say you’re a good man. White folks say you’re a good man. Your legacy is attached to tonight, brother. Your legacy.
Now, let me say to the Black members of the board, it’s the most solidarity I done seen out of y’all in forever. Let’s keep at that. Let’s stand on this, moving forward, because we don’t need to apologize for Connie, Evelyn. She showed you who she was when she was sitting next to you while you were talking, shopping. You don’t need another example.
Now, when do we, as Baton Rouge, stop being in 1856? If you want to name the building after somebody, how about P.B.S. Pinchback, the first Black governor of the state of Louisiana, when he was governor during Reconstruction? You want another name? Oscar Dunn, who was the lieutenant governor of the state of Louisiana in the 1860s, that gave the right for Dadrius Lanus and Dawn Collins and Evelyn Ware-Jackson and Tramelle Howard to get here. You want to name it after somebody from Reconstruction? Name it after the people who fought for abolition of slavery. If you want to name it after somebody, honor the right people, the people who were on the right side of history.
But it’s your ancestor that the school is named after, so you’re holding onto your heritage. But we built this joint for free, and we’re done begging you to do what’s right.
SUPT. WARREN DRAKE: Thank you, sir.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Gary Chambers addressing the East Baton Rouge Parish School Board on Thursday. They voted unanimously to form a special committee to come up with alternative names for Lee High School.
This is Democracy Now! When we back, lynching in America. Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: “Hold On Just a Little While Longer,” the Virtual Choir during the Mass Poor People’s Assembly and Moral March on Washington.


democracynow--2020-06-22--Trump's Reelection Playbook: Racist Tropes & Downplaying COVID Pandemic by Slowing Down Testing

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
As the U.S. death toll from COVID-19 nears 120,000 , President Trump is facing condemnation for remarks made during his poorly attended campaign rally in Tulsa , Oklahoma .
He again referred to COVID-19 with the racist terms “ Chinese virus , ” “ kung flu.
” This is Trump speaking about the issue of testing .
AMY GOODMAN : “ Slow the testing down , please.
” Prior to the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on the Tulsa event tested positive for the coronavirus .
Trump also used his speech to attack nationwide protests against police abuse and racism , where demonstrators have toppled statues and other symbols of the Confederacy .
AMY GOODMAN : Trump also tried to dismiss calls to defund police departments by making up a story about a , quote , “ tough hombre , ” he said , breaking into the home of a woman who was home alone .
AMY GOODMAN : Trump is in Arizona now , where tomorrow he will @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Phoenix , Arizona .
That was just a few of the things he said .
Emily Bazelon , I wanted to get your comments , staff writer at The New York Times Magazine , your new book , Charged : The New Movement to Transform American Prosecution and End Mass Incarceration .
He went back to his old tropes , talking about coronavirus as a “ kung flu ” and the “ Chinese virus.
” He was there in Tulsa .
It ’ s the 99th anniversary of the Tulsa race massacre .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ it or Juneteenth .
Talk about what he did and didn ’ t talk about , and the significance of the racism that just infused this speech , where he said he would be speaking twice , outside to an overflow capacity of something like 40,000 people — virtually no one was outside — and inside , about a third of the arena , according to the fire chief in Tulsa , was full , about 6,200 people .
It held 19,000 .
EMILY BAZELON : I mean , you see President Trump @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and it ’ s a divisive script in which the people who he is caricaturing are people of color and in which coronavirus is kind of dismissed or mocked .
Trump said after the speech , or the White House did , that he was just joking when he talked about slowing down the number of tests .
But that allows him to have it both ways .
He both gets to stir up his base with this idea that coronavirus is fake or not worth taking seriously , and then back away @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , when he is using these racist terms , this attempt always to blame foreign adversaries , to turn coronavirus into the kind of enemy that he can recognize , associated with China , as opposed to just an illness that the country needs to contend with on its own terms .
So , I think you just see this tremendous impulse to divide .
This is what has worked for Trump in the past .
He is not going to change now .
AMY GOODMAN : And , of course , the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ about any story in particular , but talking about an ” hombre , ” which goes back to when he first announced for president , talking about Mexicans as rapists , and he says this hombre goes to a house where a woman is alone and , you know , breaks into her house .
The ongoing litany of racism , and then this all happening in the context of the protests .
And this is an issue that you have dealt with extensively , actually , and your book has now just @ @ @ @ @ @ @ The New Movement to Transform American Prosecution and End Mass Incarceration .
If you can talk about the significance of these protests when it comes to issues like mass incarceration ?
EMILY BAZELON : So , I think there are two things happening here .
One is that Trump is tapping into these law-and-order themes that Republican candidates , in particular , have been sounding since the 1960s .
You talk about kind of out-of-control protesters , cities that sound like they ’ re in trouble , and you paint a picture of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you call 911 and no one ’ s there .
These aren ’ t real images , but they conjure up this notion that the country is in danger and that people ’ s securities are being threatened .
And that has typically helped Republicans in the past , and helped President Trump .
So , it doesn ’ t matter that crime is way down and that , actually , the country is very concerned right now with racial justice in the criminal justice system .
President Trump is sort of harking @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people , especially white people , were afraid .
And in terms of the connection to the protests , you know , what we ’ re seeing is this just outpouring of concern about the way Black people and Latino people are treated by the police .
The criminal justice system is just riddled with racial disparity .
When I was reporting my book , I was really struck by how much research there is .
At every phase of the development of a case , from a stop on the street to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ plea bargain , you see racial disparity .
It is not explained by the kinds of charges , by the conduct of the people involved .
It is an extra penalty that Black people and Latino people bear .
And I think we ’ re seeing this real dawning of awareness about that , an interest in doing something about it , and the president just not a match for this moment .
AMY GOODMAN : Well , Emily Bazelon , I want to thank you for being with us , staff writer @ @ @ @ @ @ @ where she has profiled Attorney General William Barr , also teaches at Yale Law School and is author of the book Charged : The New Movement to Transform American Prosecution and End Mass Incarceration .
She ’ s also co-host of the Slate podcast Political Gabfest .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman. As the U.S. death toll from COVID-19 nears 120,000, President Trump is facing condemnation for remarks made during his poorly attended campaign rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma. He again referred to COVID-19 with the racist terms “Chinese virus,” “kung flu.” This is Trump speaking about the issue of testing.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: They call me. They say, “The job you’re doing” — here’s the bad part. When you test a — when you do testing to that extent, you’re going to find more people, you’re going to find more cases. So I said to my people, “Slow the testing down, please.”
AMY GOODMAN: “Slow the testing down, please.” Prior to the rally, six Trump campaign staffers working on the Tulsa event tested positive for the coronavirus. Trump also used his speech to attack nationwide protests against police abuse and racism, where demonstrators have toppled statues and other symbols of the Confederacy.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The unhinged, left-wing mob is trying to vandalize our history, desecrate our monuments, our beautiful monuments, tear down our statues and punish, cancel and persecute anyone who does not conform to their demands for absolute and total control. We’re not conforming. That’s why we’re here, actually.
AMY GOODMAN: Trump also tried to dismiss calls to defund police departments by making up a story about a, quote, “tough hombre,” he said, breaking into the home of a woman who was home alone.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: It’s 1:00 in the morning, and a very tough — you know, I’ve used the word on occasion, ”hombre” — a very tough hombre is breaking into the window of a young woman whose husband is away as a traveling salesman or whatever he may do. And you call 911, and they say, “I’m sorry, this number is no longer working.”
AMY GOODMAN: Trump is in Arizona now, where tomorrow he will hold a rally at a megachurch in Phoenix, Arizona. That was just a few of the things he said. Emily Bazelon, I wanted to get your comments, staff writer at The New York Times Magazine, your new book, Charged: The New Movement to Transform American Prosecution and End Mass Incarceration. He went back to his old tropes, talking about coronavirus as a “kung flu” and the “Chinese virus.” He was there in Tulsa. It’s the 99th anniversary of the Tulsa race massacre. He didn’t make mention of it or Juneteenth. Talk about what he did and didn’t talk about, and the significance of the racism that just infused this speech, where he said he would be speaking twice, outside to an overflow capacity of something like 40,000 people — virtually no one was outside — and inside, about a third of the arena, according to the fire chief in Tulsa, was full, about 6,200 people. It held 19,000.
EMILY BAZELON: I mean, you see President Trump going back to his characteristic script, and it’s a divisive script in which the people who he is caricaturing are people of color and in which coronavirus is kind of dismissed or mocked. Trump said after the speech, or the White House did, that he was just joking when he talked about slowing down the number of tests. But that allows him to have it both ways. He both gets to stir up his base with this idea that coronavirus is fake or not worth taking seriously, and then back away from that statement. And you see, when he is using these racist terms, this attempt always to blame foreign adversaries, to turn coronavirus into the kind of enemy that he can recognize, associated with China, as opposed to just an illness that the country needs to contend with on its own terms. So, I think you just see this tremendous impulse to divide. This is what has worked for Trump in the past. He is not going to change now.
AMY GOODMAN: And, of course, the racist allusion he made, not talking about any story in particular, but talking about an ”hombre,” which goes back to when he first announced for president, talking about Mexicans as rapists, and he says this hombre goes to a house where a woman is alone and, you know, breaks into her house. The ongoing litany of racism, and then this all happening in the context of the protests. And this is an issue that you have dealt with extensively, actually, and your book has now just come out in paperback, Charged: The New Movement to Transform American Prosecution and End Mass Incarceration. If you can talk about the significance of these protests when it comes to issues like mass incarceration?
EMILY BAZELON: So, I think there are two things happening here. One is that Trump is tapping into these law-and-order themes that Republican candidates, in particular, have been sounding since the 1960s. You talk about kind of out-of-control protesters, cities that sound like they’re in trouble, and you paint a picture of crime going unaddressed, the idea that you call 911 and no one’s there. These aren’t real images, but they conjure up this notion that the country is in danger and that people’s securities are being threatened. And that has typically helped Republicans in the past, and helped President Trump. So, it doesn’t matter that crime is way down and that, actually, the country is very concerned right now with racial justice in the criminal justice system. President Trump is sort of harking back to this old era in which people, especially white people, were afraid.
And in terms of the connection to the protests, you know, what we’re seeing is this just outpouring of concern about the way Black people and Latino people are treated by the police. The criminal justice system is just riddled with racial disparity. When I was reporting my book, I was really struck by how much research there is. At every phase of the development of a case, from a stop on the street to an arrest to a prosecution and a plea bargain, you see racial disparity. It is not explained by the kinds of charges, by the conduct of the people involved. It is an extra penalty that Black people and Latino people bear. And I think we’re seeing this real dawning of awareness about that, an interest in doing something about it, and the president just not a match for this moment.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Emily Bazelon, I want to thank you for being with us, staff writer at The New York Times Magazine, where she has profiled Attorney General William Barr, also teaches at Yale Law School and is author of the book Charged: The New Movement to Transform American Prosecution and End Mass Incarceration. She’s also co-host of the Slate podcast Political Gabfest.


democracynow--2020-06-22--Trump Fires Top U.S. Prosecutor as William Barr Moves to Expand "Imperial Presidency"

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : The House Judiciary Committee is launching an investigation into President Trump ’ s firing of U.S. Attorney Geoffrey Berman , who ’ s overseen the investigations of several associates of President Trump , as well as President Trump ’ s inaugural finances .
Last Friday night , Attorney General William Barr issued a press release claiming Berman was , quote , “ stepping down ” as head of the Southern District of New York .
But then Berman announced he was not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
This led to a dramatic showdown that resulted in Barr sending Berman a letter on Saturday saying President Trump had fired him .
But then Trump distanced himself from the move , saying , quote , “ I ’ m not involved.
” Attorney General Barr initially tried to install his own pick to head the SDNY , but by Saturday it was announced Berman ’ s deputy , Audrey Strauss , would temporarily take over .
As U.S. attorney , Berman had led the investigations of Trump ’ s former personal @ @ @ @ @ @ @ current attorney Rudy Giuliani .
Berman also led the prosecution of a Turkish bank which had ties to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan .
Republican Senator Lindsey Graham called the late-night shake-up a , quote , “ inartfully handled personnel decision.
” Graham chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee , which would have to approve Trump ’ s intended replacement for Berman , Securities and Exchange Commission Chair Jay Clayton , who has no experience as a prosecutor .
For now , Graham has said he will defer to New York Democratic senators .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ York has already called on Clayton to withdraw from the nomination .
More than a hundred former Manhattan prosecutors have also condemned the Berman firing .
For more , we ’ re joined by Emily Bazelon , staff writer at The New York Times Magazine , where she ’ s profiled Attorney General William Barr .
She ’ s also a lecturer and senior research fellow at Yale Law School .
Welcome back to Democracy Now !
, Professor Bazelon .
Can you explain what happened , what eclipsed the rally until President @ @ @ @ @ @ @ even that dominated the news , but this , what Schumer called , on Friday night and Saturday , the “ Friday night massacre ” ?
Take us step-by-step through this , and what Barr has done , and who Barr is .
EMILY BAZELON : So , Geoffrey Berman , who was the U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York , was a powerful figure who was bringing investigations , pursuing investigations , that seemed like they were the kinds of investigations that President Trump has objected to .
Berman @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s close associate , for his involvement in the Ukraine affair , asking whether Giuliani violated the laws that require you to register if you ’ re lobbying for a foreign agent , because of what Giuliani was doing there .
And there was also an investigation — AMY GOODMAN : And he ’ s Giuliani ’ s former — isn ’ t he Giuliani ’ s former law partner ?
EMILY BAZELON : Yes .
So we have this — right , exactly .
That ’ s part of the spectacle .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ office investigating a bank in Turkey that President Trump has expressed interest in protecting .
So , Berman ’ s out there doing this work as an independent prosecutor .
And then , Friday night , we have this explosive news that Barr has very suddenly — that he ’ s going to resign .
And then Berman , amazingly , says , “ No , I ’ m not stepping down .
I have no intention to do so.
” And it becomes clear that Barr actually does not have the power @ @ @ @ @ @ @ way he was appointed .
He was actually appointed by a three-judge panel in New York , not confirmed by the Senate .
And so , it seems like the route to getting rid of him is actually that Trump has to fire Berman himself .
So , while they ’ re working that out on Saturday , Berman is getting something important that he wants .
Berman wants to be succeeded by his second in command , presumably to make sure that these investigations continue and that there ’ s some independence @ @ @ @ @ @ @ York .
Berman was able to pull that off .
Then , Trump supposedly is involved in this firing , as is legally necessary , but then claims that he was not involved .
And so , you just have a real sort of fumbling going on in the administration .
And the underlying issue here , this is one of many sudden personnel moves , and they ’ re the kind of moves that really do threaten the independence of the Justice Department and the kind of wall that we have that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ GOODMAN : Now , I mean , what ’ s amazing here is , you know , first , you had the Trump administration firing Preet Bharara , and they put in a total Trump ally .
I mean , you have Geoffrey Berman , who was Giuliani , Trump ’ s lawyer ’ s law partner .
He raised money for Trump , not only gave his own money , but raised other money for Trump .
And then he moves in and starts seriously investigating even Trump ’ s inaugural finances @ @ @ @ @ @ @ inauguration committee .
He also investigated Jeffrey Epstein before he died , and investigated now the guards who were responsible for Jeffrey Epstein in jail before his apparent suicide .
So , there is a lot going on here with Berman , who was a Trump ally .
EMILY BAZELON : That ’ s right .
And Berman is also the person who charged Michael Cohen in that whole affair that exposed the cover-up , the hush money for women who President Trump allegedly had affairs with .
So you have a really @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
AMY GOODMAN : So , let ’ s talk about how , in the end , Berman agreed to leave , after being fired by the president , though the president said he had nothing to do with it .
Explain who ’ s replacing him and why that mattered to Berman .
EMILY BAZELON : Berman is being replaced by his second in command , Audrey Strauss , and she has a reputation for being a strong figure in the office .
She was actually running some of these sensitive investigations @ @ @ @ @ @ @ his point of view , he was protecting the office , at least in the immediate time period , from an outside takeover .
He did not want Barr ’ s preferred person to be installed .
That ’ s the U.S. attorney in New Jersey .
He wanted his own deputy to continue .
And then there ’ s this big question mark about whether the administration ’ s preferred permanent replacement , the head of the SEC , is going to be confirmed .
He ’ s someone , as you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , who really has no experience as a prosecutor .
That ’ s quite a surprising pick for leading this important and very large office in New York .
So , it ’ s really unclear what will happen beyond this interim appointment .
AMY GOODMAN : So , talk about William Barr , the man you profiled for The New York Times .
Talk about his power at this point .
I mean , you see this , even for Trump , sort of catastrophe unfold , unless they just wanted to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , for them , this isn ’ t a catastrophe .
And this just comes after , a few weeks after , apparently Barr took responsibility for the attack on the peaceful protesters outside the White House that led to that calamitous walk of Trump and Barr and Ivanka Trump and the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the defense secretary , walking through Lafayette Park and then Trump holding up this upside-down Bible in front of a church .
That , Barr took responsibility for and then said , “ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , ” and then said pepper balls weren ’ t chemical irritants .
What is Barr ’ s role here in protecting the president ?
EMILY BAZELON : So , there are two things about William Barr that have made him a really excellent match for President Trump and this administration , and they ’ ve been true about Barr since the beginning of his career .
The first is that he believes in a very strong executive and presidency , a kind of what people call an imperial presidency , in which @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the president .
So , in 2018 , Barr , unsolicited , sent a memo to the Justice Department saying of the president , he alone is the executive branch , and criticizing the Mueller investigation .
That was before Barr got his current job , and it sort of read , in this weird way , like an audition memo .
The second thing about William Barr is that he is a devout Catholic who ’ s very conservative and sees religious people as being at war with secular people .
He @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in the 1990s .
He reprised really the same language in the Justice Department in speeches last year .
And so , you see this sense that there ’ s this pitting of values between the religious and the secular , and it turns Barr into a kind of warrior for religious , devout people .
And that , one can imagine , is part of why he ’ s so eager to be in this position and to be wielding this power .
AMY GOODMAN : Talk about Barr ’ s worldview @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as attorney general , and why you think he is so significant and perhaps dangerous .
EMILY BAZELON : Well , I think we have this attorney general who really does not respect or does not see the same boundaries and limits around the president ’ s power when it comes to these investigations .
So , Barr was the attorney general when the Mueller report came out .
We saw him not present all of that report , talk about it in a way that a federal judge later said had been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Trump ’ s benefit .
That protected Trump from the kind of full implications of this report .
And Barr has also been involved in some of the very conservative judicial picks that come through this administration .
You know , one of the chief justifications for supporting President Trump that Republicans continue to give is this really efficient assembly line of judges .
They really are confirming hundreds of judges .
And Barr is close with Leonard Leo , the head of the Federalist Society , who ’ s also had a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ candidates .
And this is a completely legal and above-board part of his role , but it ’ s clearly something he really supports , to change the ideological portrait of the federal judiciary so that President Trump is able to leave in office many judges who are deep conservatives .
AMY GOODMAN : And his past history , very quickly , who he served in his role in the Reagan administration ?
EMILY BAZELON : In the Reagan administration , he had a kind of deputy role , and he started talking @ @ @ @ @ @ @ presidency .
Then he became the attorney general under George H.W .
Bush , and he was in favor of pardoning Caspar Weinberger , the former defense secretary , and five other people involved in the Iran-Contra affair .
And so , you see then , as well , this willingness and interest in kind of shielding — EMILY BAZELON : Yes .
So you see this role that Barr was playing then in pardons .
Now we have a backing away from the Michael Flynn investigation , which has been really shocking @ @ @ @ @ @ @ decision , after Flynn has pled guilty , to say that the Justice Department has no interest in pursuing these charges against him , and a decision to intervene to make Roger Stone ’ s sentence more lenient .
Both Stone and Flynn , obviously , were close with President Trump .
And by taking these actions , Barr , he made it so that Trump would not have to directly pardon either Stone or Flynn , right ?
So it ’ s using the power of the Justice Department to go easy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to take a more politically divisive step of intervening himself .
AMY GOODMAN : Emily Bazelon , I want to thank you for being with us on this issue , but stay with us .
We ’ re going to go to a quick break , and then I want to get your take on the Trump rally in Tulsa .
Emily Bazelon is staff writer for The New York Times Magazine , where she has profiled Attorney General William Barr .
We ’ ll link to that profile .
She also teaches @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of Charged : The New Movement to Transform American Prosecution and End Mass Incarceration .
She ’ s co-host of the Slate podcast Political Gabfest .
Stay with us .
AMY GOODMAN : “ Stay Gold ” by the South Korean K-pop group BTS , who , along with their fans , recently donated more than $ 2 million to Black Lives Matter .
Part of the reason for the low turnout of Trump ’ s Tulsa speech on Saturday , it ’ s believed , may be attributable to K-pop fans , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with ticket reservations prior to the event , with no plans of attending .
But there was no cap on the number of people who could get tickets , so they didn ’ t prevent supporters of Trump from also getting tickets .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: The House Judiciary Committee is launching an investigation into President Trump’s firing of U.S. Attorney Geoffrey Berman, who’s overseen the investigations of several associates of President Trump, as well as President Trump’s inaugural finances.
Last Friday night, Attorney General William Barr issued a press release claiming Berman was, quote, “stepping down” as head of the Southern District of New York. But then Berman announced he was not resigning and had no intention of resigning. This led to a dramatic showdown that resulted in Barr sending Berman a letter on Saturday saying President Trump had fired him. But then Trump distanced himself from the move, saying, quote, “I’m not involved.” Attorney General Barr initially tried to install his own pick to head the SDNY, but by Saturday it was announced Berman’s deputy, Audrey Strauss, would temporarily take over.
As U.S. attorney, Berman had led the investigations of Trump’s former personal attorney Michael Cohen and Trump’s current attorney Rudy Giuliani. Berman also led the prosecution of a Turkish bank which had ties to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
Republican Senator Lindsey Graham called the late-night shake-up a, quote, “inartfully handled personnel decision.” Graham chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee, which would have to approve Trump’s intended replacement for Berman, Securities and Exchange Commission Chair Jay Clayton, who has no experience as a prosecutor. For now, Graham has said he will defer to New York Democratic senators. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York has already called on Clayton to withdraw from the nomination. More than a hundred former Manhattan prosecutors have also condemned the Berman firing.
For more, we’re joined by Emily Bazelon, staff writer at The New York Times Magazine, where she’s profiled Attorney General William Barr. She’s also a lecturer and senior research fellow at Yale Law School.
Welcome back to Democracy Now!, Professor Bazelon. Can you explain what happened, what eclipsed the rally until President Trump had so few people there that even that dominated the news, but this, what Schumer called, on Friday night and Saturday, the “Friday night massacre”? Take us step-by-step through this, and what Barr has done, and who Barr is.
EMILY BAZELON: So, Geoffrey Berman, who was the U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York, was a powerful figure who was bringing investigations, pursuing investigations, that seemed like they were the kinds of investigations that President Trump has objected to. Berman was investigating Rudy Giuliani, Trump’s close associate, for his involvement in the Ukraine affair, asking whether Giuliani violated the laws that require you to register if you’re lobbying for a foreign agent, because of what Giuliani was doing there. And there was also an investigation —
AMY GOODMAN: And he’s Giuliani’s former — isn’t he Giuliani’s former law partner?
EMILY BAZELON: Yes. So we have this — right, exactly. That’s part of the spectacle. And you also had Berman’s office investigating a bank in Turkey that President Trump has expressed interest in protecting.
So, Berman’s out there doing this work as an independent prosecutor. And then, Friday night, we have this explosive news that Barr has very suddenly — that he’s going to resign. And then Berman, amazingly, says, “No, I’m not stepping down. I have no intention to do so.” And it becomes clear that Barr actually does not have the power to fire Berman, because of the way he was appointed. He was actually appointed by a three-judge panel in New York, not confirmed by the Senate. And so, it seems like the route to getting rid of him is actually that Trump has to fire Berman himself.
So, while they’re working that out on Saturday, Berman is getting something important that he wants. Berman wants to be succeeded by his second in command, presumably to make sure that these investigations continue and that there’s some independence preserved in the Southern District of New York. Berman was able to pull that off.
Then, Trump supposedly is involved in this firing, as is legally necessary, but then claims that he was not involved. And so, you just have a real sort of fumbling going on in the administration. And the underlying issue here, this is one of many sudden personnel moves, and they’re the kind of moves that really do threaten the independence of the Justice Department and the kind of wall that we have that separates investigations from the president.
AMY GOODMAN: Now, I mean, what’s amazing here is, you know, first, you had the Trump administration firing Preet Bharara, and they put in a total Trump ally. I mean, you have Geoffrey Berman, who was Giuliani, Trump’s lawyer’s law partner. He raised money for Trump, not only gave his own money, but raised other money for Trump. And then he moves in and starts seriously investigating even Trump’s inaugural finances — is that right? — the inauguration committee. He also investigated Jeffrey Epstein before he died, and investigated now the guards who were responsible for Jeffrey Epstein in jail before his apparent suicide. So, there is a lot going on here with Berman, who was a Trump ally.
EMILY BAZELON: That’s right. And Berman is also the person who charged Michael Cohen in that whole affair that exposed the cover-up, the hush money for women who President Trump allegedly had affairs with. So you have a really independent prosecutor who was doing his job.
AMY GOODMAN: So, let’s talk about how, in the end, Berman agreed to leave, after being fired by the president, though the president said he had nothing to do with it. Explain who’s replacing him and why that mattered to Berman.
EMILY BAZELON: Berman is being replaced by his second in command, Audrey Strauss, and she has a reputation for being a strong figure in the office. She was actually running some of these sensitive investigations. So, I think, from his point of view, he was protecting the office, at least in the immediate time period, from an outside takeover. He did not want Barr’s preferred person to be installed. That’s the U.S. attorney in New Jersey. He wanted his own deputy to continue.
And then there’s this big question mark about whether the administration’s preferred permanent replacement, the head of the SEC, is going to be confirmed. He’s someone, as you said at the top of the hour, who really has no experience as a prosecutor. That’s quite a surprising pick for leading this important and very large office in New York. So, it’s really unclear what will happen beyond this interim appointment.
AMY GOODMAN: So, talk about William Barr, the man you profiled for The New York Times. Talk about his power at this point. I mean, you see this, even for Trump, sort of catastrophe unfold, unless they just wanted to get rid of him so much that, for them, this isn’t a catastrophe. And this just comes after, a few weeks after, apparently Barr took responsibility for the attack on the peaceful protesters outside the White House that led to that calamitous walk of Trump and Barr and Ivanka Trump and the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the defense secretary, walking through Lafayette Park and then Trump holding up this upside-down Bible in front of a church. That, Barr took responsibility for and then said, “We didn’t use chemical irritants,” and then said pepper balls weren’t chemical irritants. What is Barr’s role here in protecting the president?
EMILY BAZELON: So, there are two things about William Barr that have made him a really excellent match for President Trump and this administration, and they’ve been true about Barr since the beginning of his career. The first is that he believes in a very strong executive and presidency, a kind of what people call an imperial presidency, in which a huge amount of power resides in the president. So, in 2018, Barr, unsolicited, sent a memo to the Justice Department saying of the president, he alone is the executive branch, and criticizing the Mueller investigation. That was before Barr got his current job, and it sort of read, in this weird way, like an audition memo.
The second thing about William Barr is that he is a devout Catholic who’s very conservative and sees religious people as being at war with secular people. He talked about that in a speech back in the 1990s. He reprised really the same language in the Justice Department in speeches last year. And so, you see this sense that there’s this pitting of values between the religious and the secular, and it turns Barr into a kind of warrior for religious, devout people. And that, one can imagine, is part of why he’s so eager to be in this position and to be wielding this power.
AMY GOODMAN: Talk about Barr’s worldview, what else he wants to accomplish as attorney general, and why you think he is so significant and perhaps dangerous.
EMILY BAZELON: Well, I think we have this attorney general who really does not respect or does not see the same boundaries and limits around the president’s power when it comes to these investigations. So, Barr was the attorney general when the Mueller report came out. We saw him not present all of that report, talk about it in a way that a federal judge later said had been misleading. And that was all to Trump’s benefit. That protected Trump from the kind of full implications of this report.
And Barr has also been involved in some of the very conservative judicial picks that come through this administration. You know, one of the chief justifications for supporting President Trump that Republicans continue to give is this really efficient assembly line of judges. They really are confirming hundreds of judges. And Barr is close with Leonard Leo, the head of the Federalist Society, who’s also had a really key role in selecting these judicial candidates. And this is a completely legal and above-board part of his role, but it’s clearly something he really supports, to change the ideological portrait of the federal judiciary so that President Trump is able to leave in office many judges who are deep conservatives.
AMY GOODMAN: And his past history, very quickly, who he served in his role in the Reagan administration?
EMILY BAZELON: In the Reagan administration, he had a kind of deputy role, and he started talking about this idea of a very strong presidency. Then he became the attorney general under George H.W. Bush, and he was in favor of pardoning Caspar Weinberger, the former defense secretary, and five other people involved in the Iran-Contra affair. And so, you see then, as well, this willingness and interest in kind of shielding —
AMY GOODMAN: Including Elliott Abrams.
EMILY BAZELON: Yes. So you see this role that Barr was playing then in pardons. Now we have a backing away from the Michael Flynn investigation, which has been really shocking to a lot of lawyers, this decision, after Flynn has pled guilty, to say that the Justice Department has no interest in pursuing these charges against him, and a decision to intervene to make Roger Stone’s sentence more lenient. Both Stone and Flynn, obviously, were close with President Trump. And by taking these actions, Barr, he made it so that Trump would not have to directly pardon either Stone or Flynn, right? So it’s using the power of the Justice Department to go easy on them, rather than asking Trump to take a more politically divisive step of intervening himself.
AMY GOODMAN: Emily Bazelon, I want to thank you for being with us on this issue, but stay with us. We’re going to go to a quick break, and then I want to get your take on the Trump rally in Tulsa. Emily Bazelon is staff writer for The New York Times Magazine, where she has profiled Attorney General William Barr. We’ll link to that profile. She also teaches at Yale Law School and is author of Charged: The New Movement to Transform American Prosecution and End Mass Incarceration. She’s co-host of the Slate podcast Political Gabfest. Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: “Stay Gold” by the South Korean K-pop group BTS, who, along with their fans, recently donated more than $2 million to Black Lives Matter. Part of the reason for the low turnout of Trump’s Tulsa speech on Saturday, it’s believed, may be attributable to K-pop fans, who said they flooded the Trump campaign with ticket reservations prior to the event, with no plans of attending. But there was no cap on the number of people who could get tickets, so they didn’t prevent supporters of Trump from also getting tickets.


democracynow--2020-06-22--Headlines for June 22, 2020

Headlines for June 22, 2020

In Tulsa , Oklahoma , on Saturday , President Trump held his first campaign rally since the start of the pandemic .
Despite predicting a turnout of tens of thousands of supporters , the Tulsa Fire Department says attendance was about 6,200 — less than a third of the capacity of the 19,000-seat arena .
Trump and Vice President Mike Pence canceled a planned address to an overflow crowd because there was no one there .
Part of the reason for the low turnout may be attributable to TikTok users and K-pop fans , who said they flooded the Trump @ @ @ @ @ @ @ event , with no plans of attending .
During his speech , Trump again referred to COVID-19 with the racist terms “ Chinese virus ” and “ Kung flu.
” He also lamented that he doesn ’ t get credit for “ sav [ ing ] hundreds of thousands of lives.
” At another point , he said a million lives .
This is Trump speaking about the issue of testing .
President Donald Trump : “ They call me .
They say , 'The job you 're doing ’ — here ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ test a — when you do testing to that extent , you ’ re going to find more people , you ’ re going to find more cases .
So I said to my people , 'Slow the testing down , please . '
” Prior to the rally , six Trump campaign staffers working on the event tested positive for the coronavirus .
Protesters demonstrated outside the event .
One demonstrator , a 62-year-old art teacher and grandmother named Sheila Buck , was handcuffed and arrested at the request of the Trump @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a ticket .
Buck , who says she was inspired to protest after years of witnessing her Black students suffer from racism , says she plans to sue the city , the police department and the Trump campaign .
President Trump ’ s son Eric Trump also spoke at the event , where he referred to Black Lives Matter protesters as “ animals.
” The family of late singer Tom Petty issued a cease-and-desist letter after his hit song “ I Won ’ t Back Down ” played at the Tulsa rally .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ song of his used for a campaign of hate .
He liked to bring people together , ” the family said in a statement .
Trump is planning to go ahead with a rally Tuesday at a megachurch in Phoenix , Arizona , despite a request from the city ’ s mayor to reconsider due to the state ’ s surge in coronavirus cases .
Phoenix has just begun requiring residents to wear face masks in public spaces , but the city ’ s mayor says the policy will not be enforced at @ @ @ @ @ @

In Tulsa, Oklahoma, on Saturday, President Trump held his first campaign rally since the start of the pandemic. Despite predicting a turnout of tens of thousands of supporters, the Tulsa Fire Department says attendance was about 6,200 — less than a third of the capacity of the 19,000-seat arena. Trump and Vice President Mike Pence canceled a planned address to an overflow crowd because there was no one there.
Part of the reason for the low turnout may be attributable to TikTok users and K-pop fans, who said they flooded the Trump campaign with ticket reservations prior to the event, with no plans of attending.
During his speech, Trump again referred to COVID-19 with the racist terms “Chinese virus” and “Kung flu.” He also lamented that he doesn’t get credit for “sav[ing] hundreds of thousands of lives.” At another point, he said a million lives. This is Trump speaking about the issue of testing.
President Donald Trump: “They call me. They say, 'The job you're doing’ — here’s the bad part. When you test a — when you do testing to that extent, you’re going to find more people, you’re going to find more cases. So I said to my people, 'Slow the testing down, please.'”
Prior to the rally, six Trump campaign staffers working on the event tested positive for the coronavirus.
Protesters demonstrated outside the event. One demonstrator, a 62-year-old art teacher and grandmother named Sheila Buck, was handcuffed and arrested at the request of the Trump campaign, even though she had reserved a ticket. Buck, who says she was inspired to protest after years of witnessing her Black students suffer from racism, says she plans to sue the city, the police department and the Trump campaign. President Trump’s son Eric Trump also spoke at the event, where he referred to Black Lives Matter protesters as “animals.”
The family of late singer Tom Petty issued a cease-and-desist letter after his hit song “I Won’t Back Down” played at the Tulsa rally. “Tom Petty would never want a song of his used for a campaign of hate. He liked to bring people together,” the family said in a statement.
Trump is planning to go ahead with a rally Tuesday at a megachurch in Phoenix, Arizona, despite a request from the city’s mayor to reconsider due to the state’s surge in coronavirus cases. Phoenix has just begun requiring residents to wear face masks in public spaces, but the city’s mayor says the policy will not be enforced at Trump’s indoor rally.


democracynow--2020-06-23--Meet Brandon Saenz: Dallas Protester Who Lost Eye After Police Shot Him with "Less Lethal" Projectil

Meet Brandon Saenz: Dallas Protester Who Lost Eye After Police Shot Him with "Less Lethal" Projectile

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Juan González .
We ’ re looking now at the violent police crackdown on mass demonstrations against racism and police brutality that continue nationwide .
A new Amnesty International report documents at least 125 instances of police violence against protesters in 40 states and in the District of Columbia between May 26th and June 5th , where officers responded to peaceful protests with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ bullets .
In one case , police in Dallas , Texas , shot 26-year-old African American Brandon Saenz with so-called non-lethal ammunition at a peaceful protest , shattering his left eye , knocking out several teeth , fracturing his face .
A warning to our audience : We ’ re about to show images of graphic police violence .
The shooting happened May 30th , but police have not disclosed which officer shot him .
Calls are growing for the Dallas police chief to resign .
For more , we are joined by @ @ @ @ @ @ @ us from Shreveport , Louisiana , where he has been recovering .
His lawyer , Daryl Washington , is also joining us , but from Dallas , where he helped win a 90-day preliminary injunction against the police use of chemical agents and rubber bullets in Dallas .
We welcome you both to Democracy Now !
Brandon , let ’ s begin with you .
I ’ m so sorry this has happened to you .
And thank you so much for joining us .
I know this isn ’ t easy for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , if you wouldn ’ t mind — and if you don ’ t want to go through it again , don ’ t .
Can you tell us what happened on that day in Dallas ?
BRANDON SAENZ : OK .
I was at a dog park at lunch time .
And then , so I so happened to just walk up , down the street , and I seen a bunch of crowd , and they was out there protesting , so I joined the protest , because I ’ ve @ @ @ @ @ @ @ George [ Floyd ] , all the stuff that ’ s been going on .
So , I so happened to join .
And I so happened to walk up on the officer , Dallas PD , and they had their little shields and everything .
And I so happened to walk up , and I stopped for a minute .
I just paused .
And then I heard a loud noise go boom , and I got hit in the — and it hit me .
But I didn ’ t know @ @ @ @ @ @ @ something started feeling weird to me .
And then , that ’ s when I just seen all the blood just gushing out .
And I just put my hand over my eye and just took off down the sidewalk .
And that ’ s when all the people came , and they had asked me , did I need any water .
I said , no , I didn ’ t — well , I didn ’ t say nothing , and I just kept going .
And that ’ s when @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and started doctoring on me .
Then that ’ s when that guy put the wrap around my head .
I was losing a lot of blood .
And when I was laying on the ground with all the people surrounding me , the laws , the Dallas PD , they — I guess they were trying to force us to move , while we was right there on the ground , while I was bleeding out .
And they didn ’ t want to let the ambulance through for a minute .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ out .
So I told one of the people that was around me , I said , “ Well , can somebody just take me to the hospital ?
Can somebody please just take me to the hospital ?
” So , we sat there for a little bit .
Then , all the sudden , they just — that ’ s when the laws started coming over and trying to force us to move .
They just picked me up and put me in the car .
Then , once they put @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have arrived .
And then they came and got me out the car and put me in the ambulance .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : So , Brandon , at no time did anyone , any police officer , even after you were down , come over to offer you assistance or even to call an ambulance themselves ?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : And when you got to the hospital , what happened ?
BRANDON SAENZ : When I got to the hospital , they took me in the room .
They put IVs in me @ @ @ @ @ @ @ medicine .
Then , after , they took me into surgery .
And that ’ s when they told me — when I woke up out of the surgery , that ’ s when they told me I lost my eye .
And I fractured — my jaw was twisted .
My nose was broken .
And I got metal plates right here , metal screws in my nose and a plate right here on my cheek .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : And clearly — have you gotten any sense of the medical expenses @ @ @ @ @ @ @ any time , were you ?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : So , then , if you were not arrested or you were not charged by the police with anything , you were basically a bystander — JUAN GONZÁLEZ : — being assaulted by the police .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : What have been the medical bills that you ’ ve gotten so far ?
BRANDON SAENZ : There ’ s been a lot of medical bills , like hospital bills , medicine-wise , paid for medicine out of my pocket .
And it ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , though .
AMY GOODMAN : Your mom set up a GoFundMe page for you ?
AMY GOODMAN : I wanted to bring Daryl Washington into this conversation .
Brandon is recovering at home in Louisiana .
Daryl , you ’ re in Dallas .
AMY GOODMAN : Talk about the effort you were involved with to stop the police from shooting these , quote , “ less lethal ” weapons at the protesters .
What was Brandon hit with ?
DARYL WASHINGTON : Brandon was hit with what is known as a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of individuals who refer to it as a rubber bullet .
But we know it as a foam-type bullet that the Dallas Police Department uses .
Brandon was hit within 10 feet .
So , we now know that what they consider to be a less lethal weapon was used as a deadly weapon .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : And , Daryl Washington , these problems with these less lethal weapons by police departments have been problematic for decades in the United States .
I recall way back into the 1970s , when the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was covering a protest in Los Angeles .
He was killed by a tear gas canister that was fired by a Los Angeles sheriff , and the tear gas canister hit him in the head and killed him instantly .
We ’ ve had many , many examples of these kinds of — the tear gas canisters and the rubber bullets inflicting major damage and even death on people .
How were you able finally to get a judge to at least put a 90-day preliminary injunction against this in Dallas ?
DARYL @ @ @ @ @ @ @ addition to the injuries that Brandon suffered , there were a number of individuals who suffered similar injuries as Brandon did .
And we were able to not only get the court to sign this preliminary injunction , but we were able to reach an agreement with the city , because they know the danger of this bullet , and the evidence that we had showing how these officers were using this , these weapons , were very compelling .
The thing that was most disheartening about this entire situation and all the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ one single police officer attempted to intervene and administer any type of medical assistance .
And that was in direct violation of the general orders .
So , this has been a problem .
We know that protesters were out there peacefully protesting and not harming anyone .
Brandon was not doing anything to anyone on that day .
And the very thing that protesters were letting their voices be heard about , Brandon now became a victim of .
So , we were glad that we were somehow able to get a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ our hope that we have these less lethal weapons totally banned .
AMY GOODMAN : And finally , Daryl , if you could talk about qualified immunity of the police and also this call for the police chief to resign ?
DARYL WASHINGTON : Sure .
You know , one of the great things that have been coming out these protests is everybody now becoming familiar with qualified immunity .
Basically , what it has been acting as is an absolute immunity for police officers from having any type of civil liability in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for excessive force .
We now see that the courts are looking at this a whole lot closer .
They are looking at this as a factual issue , something that a jury should be able to determine , and not something that a judge should be able to determine early on in a lawsuit , where all an officer pretty much has to say is that “ I was in fear of my life or someone else ’ s life.
” So , there ’ s been a lot of good communication @ @ @ @ @ @ @ qualified immunity , and it ’ s really our hope that it ’ s eliminated totally , so that people can have their day in court .
AMY GOODMAN : And the call for the police chief to resign ?
DARYL WASHINGTON : Yeah .
There ’ s been a number of things that have taken place with this police chief .
I mean , it started with Botham Jean .
When Botham Jean was killed in Dallas by a Dallas police officer , it took a long period of time for this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Now here with Brandon , this happened to Brandon on May 30th .
This police chief has not apologized to Brandon , has not apologized to any other citizen who has been harmed by a Dallas police officer .
And we know — AMY GOODMAN : We ’ re going to have to leave it there , but I thank you for being with us , attorney Daryl Washington .
Brandon , thank you so much for joining us .
I know how difficult this is .
Brandon Saenz , shot in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ recent protest with a , quote , “ less than lethal ” weapon , lost his left eye , several teeth , shattered multiple facial fractures .
We ’ ll link to Brandon ’ s GoFundMe page that his mother has set up to pay for his medical bills .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Juan González .
Stay safe .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. We’re looking now at the violent police crackdown on mass demonstrations against racism and police brutality that continue nationwide. A new Amnesty International report documents at least 125 instances of police violence against protesters in 40 states and in the District of Columbia between May 26th and June 5th, where officers responded to peaceful protests with unlawful beatings, tear gas and rubber bullets.
In one case, police in Dallas, Texas, shot 26-year-old African American Brandon Saenz with so-called non-lethal ammunition at a peaceful protest, shattering his left eye, knocking out several teeth, fracturing his face. A warning to our audience: We’re about to show images of graphic police violence. The shooting happened May 30th, but police have not disclosed which officer shot him. Calls are growing for the Dallas police chief to resign.
For more, we are joined by Brandon Saenz. He’s joining us from Shreveport, Louisiana, where he has been recovering. His lawyer, Daryl Washington, is also joining us, but from Dallas, where he helped win a 90-day preliminary injunction against the police use of chemical agents and rubber bullets in Dallas.
We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Brandon, let’s begin with you. I’m so sorry this has happened to you. And thank you so much for joining us. I know this isn’t easy for you. If you could start off, if you wouldn’t mind — and if you don’t want to go through it again, don’t. Can you tell us what happened on that day in Dallas?
BRANDON SAENZ: OK. I was at a dog park at lunch time. And then, so I so happened to just walk up, down the street, and I seen a bunch of crowd, and they was out there protesting, so I joined the protest, because I’ve been hearing about all this, like George [Floyd], all the stuff that’s been going on. So, I so happened to join. And I so happened to walk up on the officer, Dallas PD, and they had their little shields and everything. And I so happened to walk up, and I stopped for a minute. I just paused.
And then I heard a loud noise go boom, and I got hit in the — and it hit me. But I didn’t know it hit me at first, until something started feeling weird to me. And then, that’s when I just seen all the blood just gushing out. And I just put my hand over my eye and just took off down the sidewalk. And that’s when all the people came, and they had asked me, did I need any water. I said, no, I didn’t — well, I didn’t say nothing, and I just kept going. And that’s when they came around me and surrounded me and started doctoring on me. Then that’s when that guy put the wrap around my head. I was losing a lot of blood.
And when I was laying on the ground with all the people surrounding me, the laws, the Dallas PD, they — I guess they were trying to force us to move, while we was right there on the ground, while I was bleeding out. And they didn’t want to let the ambulance through for a minute. So I was just sitting there bleeding out. So I told one of the people that was around me, I said, “Well, can somebody just take me to the hospital? Can somebody please just take me to the hospital?” So, we sat there for a little bit. Then, all the sudden, they just — that’s when the laws started coming over and trying to force us to move. They just picked me up and put me in the car. Then, once they put me in the car, the ambulance have arrived. And then they came and got me out the car and put me in the ambulance.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: So, Brandon, at no time did anyone, any police officer, even after you were down, come over to offer you assistance or even to call an ambulance themselves?
BRANDON SAENZ: No.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And when you got to the hospital, what happened?
BRANDON SAENZ: When I got to the hospital, they took me in the room. They put IVs in me, gave me some medicine, pain medicine. Then, after, they took me into surgery. And that’s when they told me — when I woke up out of the surgery, that’s when they told me I lost my eye. And I fractured — my jaw was twisted. My nose was broken. And I got metal plates right here, metal screws in my nose and a plate right here on my cheek.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And clearly — have you gotten any sense of the medical expenses? Because you were not arrested at any time, were you?
BRANDON SAENZ: No, sir.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: So, then, if you were not arrested or you were not charged by the police with anything, you were basically a bystander —
BRANDON SAENZ: Yes.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: — being assaulted by the police.
BRANDON SAENZ: Yes.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: What have been the medical bills that you’ve gotten so far?
BRANDON SAENZ: There’s been a lot of medical bills, like hospital bills, medicine-wise, paid for medicine out of my pocket. And it’s been a lot of bills coming in, though.
AMY GOODMAN: Your mom set up a GoFundMe page for you?
BRANDON SAENZ: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to bring Daryl Washington into this conversation. Brandon is recovering at home in Louisiana. Daryl, you’re in Dallas.
DARYL WASHINGTON: Yes, ma’am.
AMY GOODMAN: Talk about the effort you were involved with to stop the police from shooting these, quote, “less lethal” weapons at the protesters. What was Brandon hit with?
DARYL WASHINGTON: Brandon was hit with what is known as a foam bullet. There are a number of individuals who refer to it as a rubber bullet. But we know it as a foam-type bullet that the Dallas Police Department uses. Brandon was hit within 10 feet. So, we now know that what they consider to be a less lethal weapon was used as a deadly weapon.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Daryl Washington, these problems with these less lethal weapons by police departments have been problematic for decades in the United States. I recall way back into the 1970s, when the famous Los Angeles Times journalist Rubén Salazar was covering a protest in Los Angeles. He was killed by a tear gas canister that was fired by a Los Angeles sheriff, and the tear gas canister hit him in the head and killed him instantly. We’ve had many, many examples of these kinds of — the tear gas canisters and the rubber bullets inflicting major damage and even death on people. How were you able finally to get a judge to at least put a 90-day preliminary injunction against this in Dallas?
DARYL WASHINGTON: Sure. Well, in addition to the injuries that Brandon suffered, there were a number of individuals who suffered similar injuries as Brandon did. And we were able to not only get the court to sign this preliminary injunction, but we were able to reach an agreement with the city, because they know the danger of this bullet, and the evidence that we had showing how these officers were using this, these weapons, were very compelling.
The thing that was most disheartening about this entire situation and all the other individuals who were harmed, not one single police officer attempted to intervene and administer any type of medical assistance. And that was in direct violation of the general orders. So, this has been a problem. We know that protesters were out there peacefully protesting and not harming anyone. Brandon was not doing anything to anyone on that day. And the very thing that protesters were letting their voices be heard about, Brandon now became a victim of. So, we were glad that we were somehow able to get a 90-day reprieve, but it’s our hope that we have these less lethal weapons totally banned.
AMY GOODMAN: And finally, Daryl, if you could talk about qualified immunity of the police and also this call for the police chief to resign?
DARYL WASHINGTON: Sure. You know, one of the great things that have been coming out these protests is everybody now becoming familiar with qualified immunity. Basically, what it has been acting as is an absolute immunity for police officers from having any type of civil liability in these lawsuits that are filed against them for excessive force. We now see that the courts are looking at this a whole lot closer. They are looking at this as a factual issue, something that a jury should be able to determine, and not something that a judge should be able to determine early on in a lawsuit, where all an officer pretty much has to say is that “I was in fear of my life or someone else’s life.” So, there’s been a lot of good communication and a lot of good dialogue about qualified immunity, and it’s really our hope that it’s eliminated totally, so that people can have their day in court.
AMY GOODMAN: And the call for the police chief to resign?
DARYL WASHINGTON: Yeah. There’s been a number of things that have taken place with this police chief. I mean, it started with Botham Jean. When Botham Jean was killed in Dallas by a Dallas police officer, it took a long period of time for this chief of police to take any action. Now here with Brandon, this happened to Brandon on May 30th. This police chief has not apologized to Brandon, has not apologized to any other citizen who has been harmed by a Dallas police officer. And we know —
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to have to leave it there, but I thank you for being with us, attorney Daryl Washington. Brandon, thank you so much for joining us. I know how difficult this is. Brandon Saenz, shot in the face by Dallas police during a recent protest with a, quote, “less than lethal” weapon, lost his left eye, several teeth, shattered multiple facial fractures. We’ll link to Brandon’s GoFundMe page that his mother has set up to pay for his medical bills. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. Stay safe.