democracynow--2020-12-30--"The Truth in Black and White": The Kansas City Star Apologizes for History of Racist Coverage

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
The Kansas City Star , one of the most influential newspapers in the Midwest , has apologized for the paper ’ s 140-year racist history .
The apology appeared in a recent article titled “ The truth in Black and white.
” It began with these words : “ Today we are telling the story of a powerful local business that has done wrong .
“ For @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the most influential forces in shaping Kansas City and the region .
And yet for much of its early history — through sins of both commission and omission — it disenfranchised , ignored and scorned generations of Black Kansas Citians .
It reinforced Jim Crow laws and redlining .
Decade after early decade it robbed an entire community of opportunity , dignity , justice and recognition .
Those are the opening lines of an apology from The Kansas City Star .
In a series of articles , the newspaper details how it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ illegal segregation of schools in Kansas City decades after the Supreme Court ’ s decision in Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka , Kansas .
During the civil rights era , the Star 's editor at the time reportedly said , quote , “ We do n't need stories about these people.
” In 1968 , five Black men and a Black teenager died in Kansas City during unrest following the assassination of Martin Luther King .
At least four , and possibly all of them , were killed by police , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on the killings or call for anyone to be held accountable .
The Star also ignored the cultural significance of African American icons , including jazz legend Charlie Parker , who was born in Kansas City .
Parker ’ s first significant headline in the Star appeared after he died , but the paper misspelled his name and got his age wrong .
We ’ re joined right now by Kansas City Star editor Mike Fannin and Mará Rose Williams , an African American journalist who writes about education at the paper .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ newspaper ’ s coverage of the Black community .
We ’ re going to begin with Mará Rose Williams .
Talk about your research and what you took to the editor , who we will also speak with , to say , “ We ’ ve got to do our own reckoning here.
” Yeah , it was the summer of 2020 .
And we all know what was happening at that time .
And I felt like the time was right .
I mean , we all know — I know , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that newspapers , mainstream newspapers , across the country , not just The Kansas City Star , have not done a good job of covering the Black community .
They either ignored it , covered it inadequately or inaccurately .
And I knew this .
But it ’ s one thing to be able to say to a community , “ We ’ re sorry for that , ” but I thought it was important that we be able to show them what we were apologizing for .
So , with the timing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , after the death of George Floyd and the protests that were happening all around the country , I went to my editors , and I suggested to them that we make a public apology , and not only that , that we go back and we find those places , examples , of where we fell down as a media organization , and show the public what that looked like , what that sounded like , so that they could see .
I mean , you could tell someone about ugliness over @ @ @ @ @ @ @ one thing .
But it ’ s another thing to show them what that looks like , what that sounds like .
And that ’ s what I hoped to do .
And they did not blink .
They picked it up and then said , “ Yes , let ’ s do this.
” And once colleagues , other colleagues , heard about this , they were eager also to get involved .
And we jumped in and began to research .
Now , what we had to do was to find @ @ @ @ @ @ @ We actually started with a task force of Black community members and talked to them about what it was we wanted to do .
And we wanted to hear from them their perception of The Kansas City Star over the years and how they — the kind of job they thought we might be doing .
And so we spent some time talking with them first , and then came up with or pinpointed several particular stories that we wanted to look at , areas we wanted to look at .
We began @ @ @ @ @ @ @ exist , right ?
It wasn ’ t in the Star .
We hadn ’ t covered these things well .
We went to the Black press , the Kansas City Call , which is a weekly Black newspaper in Kansas City , and started looking there to see how they had covered certain areas — politics , education , civil rights , entertainment and so forth — and then compared that with what was done in The Kansas City Star , and then began to do a series of — a lot @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of time going through court documents , going through archives in the Historical Society , reading book after book about racism in Kansas City and race in Kansas City , to actually substantiate various areas that we wanted to cover .
So , I mean , that ’ s how it started .
MARÁ ROSE WILLIAMS : That ’ s how — go ahead .
I ’ m sorry .
AMY GOODMAN : And I ’ d like to go to Mike Fannin then .
If you could pick it up from there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Mará Rose Williams , coming to you .
You ’ re the editor and president of The Kansas City Star , extremely influential in the Midwest as you cover all issues , but particularly Kansas City , which spans two states , Missouri and Kansas .
Respond to what — talk about when she came to you , your response , and what this apology means to you .
MIKE FANNIN : Sure .
Well , as Mará said , and Mará and the whole team — and I think she made a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you know , we were really speaking for a number of people at the Star , a number of people who were excited to be on this team .
When they came to us with this idea , the answer was easy .
It was an absolute yes .
The execution , I think , was difficult , because , as I wrote about in the column , I think that as reporters really dug in and unearthed a lot of these very human examples that really brought home how this systematic problem @ @ @ @ @ @ @ stories we told and stories we didn ’ t tell , it was difficult to reconcile that with the sort of place that we ’ ve come to love and appreciate .
But we also understood that those frameworks , those historical frameworks for coverage , are difficult to tear down .
And even though I think the Star has probably spent the last 40 years trying to tear them down — and had success in certain areas — and spent a good deal of time writing about institutional racism in agencies in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ or the police department , we had never really turned that investigative power , that power of self-examination , on ourselves .
We had never really turned our — you know , put ourselves under the microscope .
And why I think it ’ s important , what it means to me , is — Mará and I have been doing shows for about a week and half now , and I ’ ve had a lot of time to sort of think about the reaction that we ’ re getting , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ — my only concern was , you know , sometimes when you ’ re telling a historical story , you can lose the audience .
Not everyone has the kind of interest in history that we do .
But clearly , from the reaction that we ’ ve gotten , in Kansas City and across the country , in comments that have come in via email and phone calls and requests for us to do programs , and not just this kind of programming , but programming with other news outlets , it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that still resonates today in Kansas City , and it resonates across America .
And here ’ s why .
There is still so much mistrust in these communities we ’ ve underserved .
And we , as truth tellers , should be willing to humble ourselves and reignite those conversations with a simple “ I ’ m sorry.
” AMY GOODMAN : I ’ d like to turn to a clip from a video that The Kansas City Star produced as part of its report , featuring an interview with Mickey Sutherlin @ @ @ @ @ @ @ died in the 1977 flood in Kansas City .
AMY GOODMAN : So , Mará Rose Williams , the flood and what you really have described as the racist coverage by The Kansas City Star , explain .
MARÁ ROSE WILLIAMS : Yeah , I mean , when you look back — when I looked back and I was reading about the flood , I had heard from people I interviewed that their stories were not told .
And when I began to do some research , I was able to find that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they would talk about the structural damages to homes in the suburbs .
We talked about how water flowed into people ’ s homes in the suburb and washed all of their contents away and left them with nothing .
But then , when we talked to — when we mentioned anything that had to do with the Black community , we would just say something like , “ There were homes damaged in that area.
” We never talked to the people who suffered .
We never told their real story about @ @ @ @ @ @ @ how devastating it was for them .
And so our readers did not get a chance to see the other members of their community , the members of the Black community , and that they , too , had suffered , and the damage that was done to their homes .
These people felt invisible , because their story was not being told , as Mr. Sutherlin was saying .
It was as if they didn ’ t exist .
And so , I found that very painful as I read that .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ story for decade after decade , just this invisibility , as Mike ’ s apology said , that we did nothing or little to change the narrative , the perception about who Black Americans , Black Kansas Citians were .
AMY GOODMAN : Well , we will link to your whole series at democracynow.org .
Mará Rose Williams , education writer at The Kansas City Star , Mike Fannin , president and editor of The Kansas City Star , which recently published an apology for the paper ’ s racist history , titled @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : An apology from The Kansas City Star.
” And that does it for our show .
Democracy Now !
produced with Renée Feltz , Mike Burke , Deena Guzder , Libby Rainey , Nermeen Shaikh , María Taracena , Carla Wills and Tami Woronoff , Charina Nadura , Sam Alcoff , Tey-Marie Astudillo , John Hamilton , Robby Karran , Hany Massoud and Adriano Contreras .
Our general manager , Julie Crosby .
Special thanks to Becca Staley , Miriam Barnard , Paul Powell , Mike DiFilippo , Miguel Nogueira , Denis @ @

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
The Kansas City Star, one of the most influential newspapers in the Midwest, has apologized for the paper’s 140-year racist history. The apology appeared in a recent article titled “The truth in Black and white.” It began with these words: “Today we are telling the story of a powerful local business that has done wrong.
“For 140 years, it has been one of the most influential forces in shaping Kansas City and the region. And yet for much of its early history — through sins of both commission and omission — it disenfranchised, ignored and scorned generations of Black Kansas Citians. It reinforced Jim Crow laws and redlining. Decade after early decade it robbed an entire community of opportunity, dignity, justice and recognition.
“That business is The Kansas City Star.”
Those are the opening lines of an apology from The Kansas City Star. In a series of articles, the newspaper details how it largely ignored civil rights protests and the illegal segregation of schools in Kansas City decades after the Supreme Court’s decision in Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas. During the civil rights era, the Star's editor at the time reportedly said, quote, “We don't need stories about these people.”
In 1968, five Black men and a Black teenager died in Kansas City during unrest following the assassination of Martin Luther King. At least four, and possibly all of them, were killed by police, but the paper failed to follow up on the killings or call for anyone to be held accountable.
The Star also ignored the cultural significance of African American icons, including jazz legend Charlie Parker, who was born in Kansas City. Parker’s first significant headline in the Star appeared after he died, but the paper misspelled his name and got his age wrong.
We’re joined right now by Kansas City Star editor Mike Fannin and Mará Rose Williams, an African American journalist who writes about education at the paper. She led the effort to examine the newspaper’s coverage of the Black community.
We’re going to begin with Mará Rose Williams. Talk about your research and what you took to the editor, who we will also speak with, to say, “We’ve got to do our own reckoning here.”
MARÁ ROSE WILLIAMS: Good morning, Amy.
Yeah, it was the summer of 2020. And we all know what was happening at that time. And I felt like the time was right. I mean, we all know — I know, I’ve known for years — that newspapers, mainstream newspapers, across the country, not just The Kansas City Star, have not done a good job of covering the Black community. They either ignored it, covered it inadequately or inaccurately. And I knew this.
But it’s one thing to be able to say to a community, “We’re sorry for that,” but I thought it was important that we be able to show them what we were apologizing for. So, with the timing that I was in, you know, after the death of George Floyd and the protests that were happening all around the country, I went to my editors, and I suggested to them that we make a public apology, and not only that, that we go back and we find those places, examples, of where we fell down as a media organization, and show the public what that looked like, what that sounded like, so that they could see. I mean, you could tell someone about ugliness over and over again. That’s one thing. But it’s another thing to show them what that looks like, what that sounds like. And that’s what I hoped to do.
And they did not blink. They picked it up and then said, “Yes, let’s do this.” And once colleagues, other colleagues, heard about this, they were eager also to get involved. And we jumped in and began to research.
Now, what we had to do was to find the stories we wanted to tell. We actually started with a task force of Black community members and talked to them about what it was we wanted to do. And we wanted to hear from them their perception of The Kansas City Star over the years and how they — the kind of job they thought we might be doing. And so we spent some time talking with them first, and then came up with or pinpointed several particular stories that we wanted to look at, areas we wanted to look at.
We began with — because it didn’t exist, right? It wasn’t in the Star. We hadn’t covered these things well. We went to the Black press, the Kansas City Call, which is a weekly Black newspaper in Kansas City, and started looking there to see how they had covered certain areas — politics, education, civil rights, entertainment and so forth — and then compared that with what was done in The Kansas City Star, and then began to do a series of — a lot of research. We spent a lot of time going through court documents, going through archives in the Historical Society, reading book after book about racism in Kansas City and race in Kansas City, to actually substantiate various areas that we wanted to cover. So, I mean, that’s how it started.
AMY GOODMAN: And —
MARÁ ROSE WILLIAMS: That’s how — go ahead. I’m sorry.
AMY GOODMAN: And I’d like to go to Mike Fannin then. If you could pick it up from there? You have your education editor, Mará Rose Williams, coming to you. You’re the editor and president of The Kansas City Star, extremely influential in the Midwest as you cover all issues, but particularly Kansas City, which spans two states, Missouri and Kansas. Respond to what — talk about when she came to you, your response, and what this apology means to you.
MIKE FANNIN: Sure. Well, as Mará said, and Mará and the whole team — and I think she made a great point here, which is, you know, we were really speaking for a number of people at the Star, a number of people who were excited to be on this team. When they came to us with this idea, the answer was easy. It was an absolute yes.
The execution, I think, was difficult, because, as I wrote about in the column, I think that as reporters really dug in and unearthed a lot of these very human examples that really brought home how this systematic problem in our coverage had revealed itself in stories we told and stories we didn’t tell, it was difficult to reconcile that with the sort of place that we’ve come to love and appreciate.
But we also understood that those frameworks, those historical frameworks for coverage, are difficult to tear down. And even though I think the Star has probably spent the last 40 years trying to tear them down — and had success in certain areas — and spent a good deal of time writing about institutional racism in agencies in Kansas City, like the fire department or the police department, we had never really turned that investigative power, that power of self-examination, on ourselves. We had never really turned our — you know, put ourselves under the microscope.
And why I think it’s important, what it means to me, is — Mará and I have been doing shows for about a week and half now, and I’ve had a lot of time to sort of think about the reaction that we’re getting, and I think that my concern was that — my only concern was, you know, sometimes when you’re telling a historical story, you can lose the audience. Not everyone has the kind of interest in history that we do. But clearly, from the reaction that we’ve gotten, in Kansas City and across the country, in comments that have come in via email and phone calls and requests for us to do programs, and not just this kind of programming, but programming with other news outlets, it tells me that this is a story that still resonates today in Kansas City, and it resonates across America.
And here’s why. There is still so much mistrust in these communities we’ve underserved. And we, as truth tellers, should be willing to humble ourselves and reignite those conversations with a simple “I’m sorry.”
AMY GOODMAN: I’d like to turn to a clip from a video that The Kansas City Star produced as part of its report, featuring an interview with Mickey Sutherlin, whose father, Leroy Adams, died in the 1977 flood in Kansas City.
MICKEY SUTHERLIN: The Star wrote about the death toll. They ran three or four articles about my father. They did that with the people that died, not the people that suffered. Mostly, the Star and Times and the local TV news networks, they focused on the damage that was done to the plaza area and stuff and the businesses that were destroyed, not a lot about the residential neighborhoods. And those were Black neighborhoods.
AMY GOODMAN: So, Mará Rose Williams, the flood and what you really have described as the racist coverage by The Kansas City Star, explain.
MARÁ ROSE WILLIAMS: Yeah, I mean, when you look back — when I looked back and I was reading about the flood, I had heard from people I interviewed that their stories were not told. And when I began to do some research, I was able to find that, you know, for example, they would talk about the structural damages to homes in the suburbs. We talked about how water flowed into people’s homes in the suburb and washed all of their contents away and left them with nothing. But then, when we talked to — when we mentioned anything that had to do with the Black community, we would just say something like, “There were homes damaged in that area.” We never talked to the people who suffered. We never told their real story about what the loss meant to them and how devastating it was for them.
And so our readers did not get a chance to see the other members of their community, the members of the Black community, and that they, too, had suffered, and the damage that was done to their homes. These people felt invisible, because their story was not being told, as Mr. Sutherlin was saying. It was as if they didn’t exist. And so, I found that very painful as I read that. And that was seen in story after story for decade after decade, just this invisibility, as Mike’s apology said, that we did nothing or little to change the narrative, the perception about who Black Americans, Black Kansas Citians were.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, we will link to your whole series at democracynow.org. Mará Rose Williams, education writer at The Kansas City Star, Mike Fannin, president and editor of The Kansas City Star, which recently published an apology for the paper’s racist history, titled “The truth in Black and white: An apology from The Kansas City Star.”
And that does it for our show. Democracy Now! produced with Renée Feltz, Mike Burke, Deena Guzder, Libby Rainey, Nermeen Shaikh, María Taracena, Carla Wills and Tami Woronoff, Charina Nadura, Sam Alcoff, Tey-Marie Astudillo, John Hamilton, Robby Karran, Hany Massoud and Adriano Contreras. Our general manager, Julie Crosby. Special thanks to Becca Staley, Miriam Barnard, Paul Powell, Mike DiFilippo, Miguel Nogueira, Denis Moynihan.


democracynow--2020-12-30--"Say Her Name: Dr. Susan Moore." Black Female Doctors Condemn Racial Disparities in Healthcare

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
As we just reported , the death of a Black doctor from COVID-19 is shining stark new light on racism in medical care and how the virus is devastating Black communities .
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports Black and Latinx people are dying of COVID-19 at a rate almost three times that of white Americans .
Earlier this month , Dr. @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Facebook describing racist treatment by medical staff who did not respond to her pleas for care , despite being in intense pain and being a doctor herself .
She said in the video , “ This is how Black people get killed.
” For more , we ’ re joined by two of the Black female physicians who wrote a Washington Post opinion piece headlined “ Say her name : Dr. Susan Moore.
” In it , they write , quote , “ If anyone knew how to fight for herself , it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ she was sent home .
Less than three weeks later , she was dead .
… The deaths of [ Mr. ] George Floyd and so many others mistreated , injured or killed at the hands of our policing system have made us accustomed to seeing the video .
But injustice in health care is rarely broadcast from cellphone videos or shared for thousands to witness , ” they said .
Joining us in Atlanta is Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones , family physician , epidemiologist , past president of the American Public Health @ @ @ @ @ @ @ School of Public Health and the Morehouse School of Medicine in Atlanta , Georgia .
And in Washington , D.C. , Dr. Joia Crear-Perry is with us , president of the National Birth Equity Collaborative .
We welcome you both to Democracy Now !
Seeing that video that we just played of Dr. Susan Moore , she said , “ I put forth , and I maintain : If I was white , I wouldn ’ t have to go through that.
” Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones , if you would first talk @ @ @ @ @ @ @ heartbreaking , enraging video that Dr. Moore made from her hospital bed just before she died ?
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES : Well , first of all , hearing it again is making me tense .
She was fighting for her life .
Many patients know that they ’ re not getting — they feel a little devalued .
But she knew exactly what she should have gotten , and so she knew exactly how bad the treatment was .
And so , here she was , calling out racism .
And the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , in later statement , intimidated by her , intimidated by her asking to be valued for her own full humanity .
Since when do we have to diminish ourselves and hope for scraps of care ?
So I was angry then .
I ’ m angry now .
It ’ s another — just another naming of racism in this racist society .
So , racism is not limited to healthcare .
It ’ s not limited to policing .
It ’ s in education .
It ’ s in housing .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ s woven throughout the fabric of this nation .
It ’ s foundational in our history .
AMY GOODMAN : Dr. Jones , Dr. Moore described how a white doctor questioned the veracity of her pain .
Dr. Moore said the doctor , quote , “ made me feel like I was a drug addict , ” and , quote , “ he did not even listen to my lungs .
He didn ’ t touch me in any way.
” Respond .
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES : So , that also is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ there are these ideas of biological differences between the races , which do not exist .
We have mapped the human genome .
There is no basis in the human genome for biological subspecies .
But people have — since Marion Sims experimented and perfected his surgical techniques on enslaved women without using anesthesia , up to the neglect of people with sickle cell anemia , when they come in with pain and are disbelieved or undertreated , or people with kidney stones , it is a typical and ongoing devaluation of our @ @ @ @ @ @ @ AMY GOODMAN : So , let me bring Dr. Joia Crear-Perry into this conversation , president of the National Birth Equity Collaborative .
Can you talk about both Dr. Moore saying that she felt like they were treating her as a drug addict instead of a doctor , even though they knew she was a fellow physician — and it shouldn ’ t take that — and what that means in your profession , and what you see , the fact that African Americans , like Dr. Moore , are dying at an @ @ @ @ @ @ @ country is in — across the country , people are dying , the worst record for deaths in the world , but the African American community is particularly hard hit .
DR. JOIA CREAR-PERRY : Yeah .
Thank you so much .
Every time I hear the video , it saddens me again .
It feels really familiar .
The work that we do with the National Birth Equity Collaborative , working on Black maternal health , we found that Black patients , Black birthing people are not valued ; they ’ re @ @ @ @ @ @ @ very familiar , because I ’ ve heard it many , many times .
If you see the stories over the last few years around the fact that we ’ re three to four times more likely to die in childbirth than our white counterparts — in places like New York City , eight to 10 times more likely to die — she is explaining to us how that happened .
When you come to a place and people do not evaluate you for your pain , they don ’ t believe you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ scan to prove that you have pain ?
That doesn ’ t seem logical to most providers , that if you were to come in , that ’ s actually — we complain about expending too much money in healthcare .
That was a wasted resource .
You don ’ t need to get a CAT scan to prove pain .
That ’ s not something that we normally do .
We only do that to Black patients , to patients we don ’ t believe , to Brown patients , to Indigenous @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Well , you ’ ve got to prove pain , because you ’ re superhuman.
” That goes also back to what Dr. Jones was talking about , this legacy and this history of a belief in a biological basis of race .
They ’ ve done studies to prove that medical students believe we have thicker skin — medical students .
And I ’ m not saying that we ’ re picking on the medical students , because they ’ re being taught by deans and professors who are saying things like @ @ @ @ @ @ @ mean , I was taught in my own medical school in the late 1990s , which is not that long ago , that there were three biological races : Mongoloid , Caucasoid and Negroid .
So , that belief and that language that there ’ s a biological reason that we don ’ t feel pain and that we ’ re superhuman and that we ’ re — And it ’ s also — it ’ s interesting to see that she was fighting for herself .
She knew the right words .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ her .
She said , “ I ’ ll put you out at 10:00 at night.
” We ’ ve seen those kind of things happen , where we tell patients , “ If you don ’ t act right , I ’ m not going to give you this epidural.
” Right ?
This threatening around “ If you don ’ t behave the way I want you to behave , I will then punish you , because you ’ re asking to be valued and not to be in pain .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ are basic human needs , and therefore I don ’ t think you deserve those things , so let me punish you for even asking to be seen as human.
” AMY GOODMAN : So , in the piece that the four of you wrote , all African American women doctors , in The Washington Post , you compare the death of Dr. Susan Moore with the police killing of George Floyd .
Dr. Joia Crear-Perry , you are not only a doctor in the hospitals of this country , but you were @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s death .
Can you talk about what you see is the connection ?
DR. JOIA CREAR-PERRY : Well , there ’ s an overriding , -arching policing of Blackness .
It was in law from the beginning .
If you think about like after Reconstruction , we were — that people were told that they should make sure that Black folks don ’ t go into certain neighborhoods .
They were not allowed , refused .
To catch a slave running away .
You see these videos of even like recently : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ saw her phone was missing , and she assumed that a Black child had taken it , and went to attack the child , and felt that she had perfect permission as a white woman to attack a 14-year-old child , assuming that they had stolen her phone .
So , that belief that we ’ re supposed to be policed and organized and planned and controlled is embedded in policing and in healthcare .
How we police women ’ s bodies — and it ’ s women plus being Black , both @ @ @ @ @ @ @ really gets the outcomes that we see , so that throughline .
I don ’ t want us to blame — and sometimes we ’ ll focus on the doctor who took care of Dr. Moore in Indiana .
And yes , perhaps he should get some kind of accountability for his individual behavior .
But the structure , the structural racism , is the undergirding of both our police system and our healthcare system , the belief in needing to control , the belief in needing to not value , to not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ re not having a co-created patient plan .
When we talk about patients , we say things like we want to have — co-create it , and we want to make sure that we have shared decision-making .
If you don ’ t believe in the person that you ’ re sharing this decision-making with , if you think that they are not fully capable and not fully human , then there ’ s never really any shared decision-making .
It ’ s authoritarian .
And so , that ’ s the same @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , if we are going to undo the racism that ’ s in this country , we have to start first with some truth , some historical truth about how we got here and some current truth about what happens today .
So , Dr. Susan Moore ’ s video gives us a — just the same way that George Floyd ’ s video did , we ’ re not just looking at numbers or data .
We actually see the people who are being murdered , who are dying , hear their @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and say , “ Why would we ever do that to any human being ever ?
Don ’ t we want all people to have justice and joy ?
Don ’ t we want them all to be able to thrive ?
” We wanted George Floyd to still be here , and we also want Dr. Susan Moore to still be here .
So how do we use their history and their legacy to build a better world for all of us ?
AMY GOODMAN : On Tuesday , Vice President-elect Kamala @ @ @ @ @ @ @ TV at the United Medical Center in Washington ’ s predominantly Black Anacostia neighborhood .
AMY GOODMAN : So , of course , the vice president-elect , Kamala Harris , will be the first African American and African American woman vice president in U.S. history .
And she was injected by Patricia Cummings .
She was vaccinated by this African American nurse , who is the daughter of Guyanese immigrants .
The significance , Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones , of seeing this image clearly in the Black community of Washington , D.C. , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Black woman vice president to be ?
The message that is being sent , as African Americans , studies show , are — perhaps 40 % are now willing to get a vaccine ?
What do you think needs to be overcome for the Black community to feel more comfortable with this vaccine , given the history , you said , for example , of Marion Sims , considered the father of modern gynecology , experimenting on enslaved women ?
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES : The first thing is that we don @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to convince people to get the vaccine .
We need to honor and hear their questions , answer their questions .
And in some cases , the answer to the question could be “ I don ’ t know , ” because there is a lot that we still don ’ t know about the long-term effects of the vaccine or the rare effects .
But I do have to say that when you look at the benefits and the risks , I have decided that when my turn in line comes , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ even though there is uncertainty — there are things that we don ’ t know , because the virus is new and the vaccine is newer .
You know , we haven ’ t been studying it long , and we haven ’ t studied it in a whole lot of people .
But we live with uncertainty in our lives .
I am willing to live with the uncertainty associated with the vaccine , as opposed to dying with COVID-19 , which is a much bigger risk .
The whole issue is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and Moderna vaccines have shown themselves to be highly , highly effective .
So , what we need to do is not try to say , “ Oh , those people , why don ’ t they just get over that history ?
” or , “ Oh , those people , why do they have all these questions or this distrust ?
” First of all , we need to make sure that we evidence trustworthiness in all of our systems , going forward .
Dr. Susan Moore ’ s example was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of , you know , trust , because the system was not trustworthy in her case .
So , all of our systems , if we want to convince people to get the vaccine , have to evidence themselves to be trustworthy .
And we , as a nation , need to say , “ We honor your lives , not just when you get the vaccine , but we honor your lives , and we ’ re going to provide the support you need to safely shelter in place .
We are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ workplaces need , that if you have to go to work , they are safe workplaces .
We ’ re going to provide you with the PPE that you need as a grocery clerk or as a bus driver or a warehouse worker to keep you safe.
” It ’ s not just , “ Oh , now that we have the vaccine , we want to convince you to take the vaccine , because , well , maybe we ’ re worried about herd immunity , and we ’ re really not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , you know , to get to herd immunity , we need to do this.
” No , be trustworthy in all ways , and be about my people , my community , my health in all ways .
That ’ s the evidence that is going to really convince people that , yes , maybe I should take the vaccine .
But I have to say , at the individual level right now , risk-benefit , I agree .
I can live with the uncertainty , because these two vaccines , in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ highly efficacious .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to put this question to Dr. Joia Crear-Perry .
In 2018 , tennis star Serena Williams and her husband , the Reddit co-founder , Alexis Ohanian , welcomed into the world their daughter , Alexis Olympia Ohanian Jr .
The baby was born by an emergency C-section .
Williams told Vogue magazine how she self-diagnosed a life-threatening emergency after giving birth .
Shortly after delivering , the tennis star suddenly felt out of breath and assumed she was having a pulmonary embolism , given her @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to read from the 2018 piece in Vogue by Rob Haskell that describes Serena Williams ’ s birth experience : quote , “ She walked out of the hospital room so her mother wouldn ’ t worry and told the nearest nurse , between gasps , that she needed a CT scan with contrast and IV heparin ( a blood thinner ) right away .
The nurse thought her pain medicine might be making her confused .
But Serena insisted , and soon enough a doctor was performing an ultrasound of her legs @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Doppler ?
I told you , I need a CT scan and a heparin drip , ' she remembers telling the team .
The ultrasound revealed nothing , so they sent her for the CT , and sure enough , several small blood clots had settled in her lungs .
Minutes later she was on the drip . '
I was like , listen to Dr .
Williams ! '
” So , Dr. Joia Crear-Perry , you are president of the National Birth Equity Collaborative .
Talk about the significance of what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ comes to postpartum deaths of African American women .
DR. JOIA CREAR-PERRY : Thank you .
You know , I also want to show the throughline between Dr. Susan Moore and Serena Williams .
Both of them are experts on their body , and they were seen as not experts , right ?
They both said , “ This is what ’ s happening .
This is what I need.
” And the more that they could articulate expertise , the more that the people around them didn ’ t know what to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so accustomed to the bias inside of them saying , “ These people aren ’ t experts .
They don ’ t know what they ’ re talking about .
I know better .
I am the one that ’ s in control.
” And that is the tension that we see when it comes to racism as a structure .
I don ’ t want us to , once again , focus on individuals , but really the structures of how this plays out .
So , for us , we knew @ @ @ @ @ @ @ six years ago , through Amnesty International , and the U.N. had sanctioned the United States around the fact that we had the worst outcomes for birthing people in the world , and then that Black people were three to four times more likely to die within a year of childbirth than their white counterparts , that we saw that — we knew that the language was going to be : “ Of course they die .
They are so fat .
They don ’ t listen .
They don ’ t go @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and shaming that normally happens to communities of color , the same thing that happened during COVID-19 : “ Of course they ’ re dying .
They have all these preexisting illnesses .
Of course .
They all live together , and they don ’ t follow instruction.
” Meanwhile , we ’ re more likely to put a mask on than anybody else .
We ’ re more likely — we clean not only other people ’ s houses , we clean our own houses , so we ’ re usually extra @ @ @ @ @ @ @ up for you and for ourselves .
So this idea of blaming and shaming , we knew that was going to be the language .
So , Serena Williams was so important , because it showed that a person with wealth , with stature , with grace was , once again , not believed , seen as a poor historian of her own health , even though , if anybody , she ’ s paid her entire life , since she was a child , around her health .
She knows her body @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s a professional athlete .
Professional athletes know everything about their bodies , because that ’ s how they make money .
That ’ s how they live .
For them not to listen to Serena , man , what does that mean for people like Susan Moore or like me or like any of us ?
From birthing to elder care , it ’ s the same throughline of disbelief , of not having trust .
When you talk to patients — our work , when we talk to patients that works @ @ @ @ @ @ @ like Kaiser to little ones in Kalamazoo , Michigan , every one of them , what the patients want , when we talk to patients , is to be trusted .
They want you to think and know that no matter their skin color , no matter their gender , no matter where they live , that they want justice and joy , that they want — that they are good historians .
You don ’ t write things down like “ noncompliant.
” When you ’ re doing those things , you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and really not thinking about all the things that could be happening .
So , Serena coming forth and talking about her — she also reminded me so much around how she walked outside because she didn ’ t want to scare her family members .
That ’ s typical Black woman , right ?
Like , “ I don ’ t anybody to get upset , so let me just go out here and just mention right quick that I might be dying , and this is what I need.
” And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ same way that Dr. Susan Moore did : “ These are the medicines that I need .
This is the testing that I need.
” And unfortunately , when we show expertise as Black people , because we have not been historically seen as experts about anything , well , people don ’ t know what to do with that .
So , nurses , doctors , systems , cultures , when we show up as the expert , we can feel the nervousness that others have around our expertise .
But we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s your bias , not ours .
That ’ s your assumptions about who I ’ m supposed to be , the box you ’ ve put me into.
” And wouldn ’ t it be amazing for all of us to let go of all of those boxes , to see Serena , Dr. Moore , to see our patients who live in Bogalusa , Louisiana , anywhere , as experts on their own bodies , that they have value , that they have thoughts and ideas that are amazing , no @ @ @ @ @ @ @ your race or your gender ?
And that ’ s really what we ’ ve learned through the Black maternal health work , working inside of hospitals , that when you look at your data , when you disaggregate your data , without question , Black patients will receive pain management later , they get their hypertension treated later .
And you can really undo that .
You can stop the structure of the system and say , “ We are devaluing people , and we ’ re not going to do that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ really see all of them and believe them and trust them and invest in them and make sure that they all can be seen in the future.
” AMY GOODMAN : Talking about throughlines , as we wrap up , Dr. Joia Crear-Perry , I think of Erica Garner , who was a guest on our show a number of times , fierce fighter against police brutality .
Erica was the daughter , of course , of Eric Garner , who was killed by police in Staten Island .
Erica would die just @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , when she was just 27 years old .
We did a show on Erica and Serena Williams showing that throughline .
As we wrap up , a final thought on the Lancet study that you did , the respected international medical journal , called “ Moving towards anti-racist praxis in medicine ” ?
DR. JOIA CREAR-PERRY : Yeah , and I just want to highlight that throughline .
She died from cardiomyopathy .
Her heart was enlarged .
Just think about that .
The stress of trying to fight for the value @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not to be ignored and to hold the policemen accountable , ultimately , caused her heart to weaken — the stress of having to fight for humanity .
For years , we liked to blame genetics on cardiomyopathy and looking for what the gene is that makes people ’ s heart weaker .
But we know that your stress , your mental health , impacts your physical health .
And until we undo racism , we ’ re going to see Black folks having higher rates of obesity , higher rates of hypertension @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that throughline of racism is consistent for all of us .
And that ’ s what ’ s shortening all of our lives .
So we need that to end .
And that ’ s what we talk about in this antiracism praxis .
If I was taught in medical school , as I was — I was taught that there were three biological races — that ’ s racism .
Racism was not created by God .
Racism was not created by medicine .
Those things have been — racism was created @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and wealth .
And so , our job is to fight for equality and justice and joy , and to say , “ How do we undo all these places inside of medicine where we say that Black people have different lungs or different kidney capacity or different pelvis shapes ?
” All this talk that we have a different shape of our pelvis , how could that possibly be , when it ’ s just melanin production that makes us different ?
That ’ s the only one difference .
Our pelvis @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with each other .
So , really undoing those racist ideas that we were all taught inside of medicine — DR. JOIA CREAR-PERRY : — so that we can have antiracism .
Sorry .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to thank you so much for being with us , Dr. Joia Crear-Perry , president of the National Birth Equity Collaborative , and Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones , family physician , epidemiologist , past president of the American Public Health Association , teaching at both Emory School of Public Health , as well as @ @ @ @ @ @ @ will link to the piece they co-authored with two other African American women doctors in The Washington Post , “ Say her name : Dr. Susan Moore.
” When we come back , “ The truth in Black and white : An apology from The Kansas City Star.
” Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
As we just reported, the death of a Black doctor from COVID-19 is shining stark new light on racism in medical care and how the virus is devastating Black communities. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports Black and Latinx people are dying of COVID-19 at a rate almost three times that of white Americans.
Earlier this month, Dr. Susan Moore posted this now-viral video on Facebook describing racist treatment by medical staff who did not respond to her pleas for care, despite being in intense pain and being a doctor herself. She said in the video, “This is how Black people get killed.”
For more, we’re joined by two of the Black female physicians who wrote a Washington Post opinion piece headlined “Say her name: Dr. Susan Moore.” In it, they write, quote, “If anyone knew how to fight for herself, it would have been Moore. Still, she was sent home. Less than three weeks later, she was dead. … The deaths of [Mr.] George Floyd and so many others mistreated, injured or killed at the hands of our policing system have made us accustomed to seeing the video. But injustice in health care is rarely broadcast from cellphone videos or shared for thousands to witness,” they said.
Joining us in Atlanta is Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones, family physician, epidemiologist, past president of the American Public Health Association. She teaches at Emory Rollins School of Public Health and the Morehouse School of Medicine in Atlanta, Georgia. And in Washington, D.C., Dr. Joia Crear-Perry is with us, president of the National Birth Equity Collaborative.
We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Seeing that video that we just played of Dr. Susan Moore, she said, “I put forth, and I maintain: If I was white, I wouldn’t have to go through that.” Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones, if you would first talk about your response when you saw this heartbreaking, enraging video that Dr. Moore made from her hospital bed just before she died?
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES: Well, first of all, hearing it again is making me tense. She was fighting for her life. Many patients know that they’re not getting — they feel a little devalued. But she knew exactly what she should have gotten, and so she knew exactly how bad the treatment was. And so, here she was, calling out racism.
And the people there were intimidated, they said, in later statement, intimidated by her, intimidated by her asking to be valued for her own full humanity. Since when do we have to diminish ourselves and hope for scraps of care?
So I was angry then. I’m angry now. It’s another — just another naming of racism in this racist society. So, racism is not limited to healthcare. It’s not limited to policing. It’s in education. It’s in housing. It’s everywhere. It’s woven throughout the fabric of this nation. It’s foundational in our history.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Jones, Dr. Moore described how a white doctor questioned the veracity of her pain. Dr. Moore said the doctor, quote, “made me feel like I was a drug addict,” and, quote, “he did not even listen to my lungs. He didn’t touch me in any way.” Respond.
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES: So, that also is typical. We know, historically, there are these ideas of biological differences between the races, which do not exist. We have mapped the human genome. There is no basis in the human genome for biological subspecies. But people have — since Marion Sims experimented and perfected his surgical techniques on enslaved women without using anesthesia, up to the neglect of people with sickle cell anemia, when they come in with pain and are disbelieved or undertreated, or people with kidney stones, it is a typical and ongoing devaluation of our lives and distrust of our word.
AMY GOODMAN: So, let me bring Dr. Joia Crear-Perry into this conversation, president of the National Birth Equity Collaborative. Can you talk about both Dr. Moore saying that she felt like they were treating her as a drug addict instead of a doctor, even though they knew she was a fellow physician — and it shouldn’t take that — and what that means in your profession, and what you see, the fact that African Americans, like Dr. Moore, are dying at an astronomical rate of COVID-19? Already the country is in — across the country, people are dying, the worst record for deaths in the world, but the African American community is particularly hard hit.
DR. JOIA CREAR-PERRY: Yeah. Thank you so much.
Every time I hear the video, it saddens me again. It feels really familiar. The work that we do with the National Birth Equity Collaborative, working on Black maternal health, we found that Black patients, Black birthing people are not valued; they’re not listened to. So it felt very familiar, because I’ve heard it many, many times. If you see the stories over the last few years around the fact that we’re three to four times more likely to die in childbirth than our white counterparts — in places like New York City, eight to 10 times more likely to die — she is explaining to us how that happened.
When you come to a place and people do not evaluate you for your pain, they don’t believe you — you have to have a CAT scan to prove that you have pain? That doesn’t seem logical to most providers, that if you were to come in, that’s actually — we complain about expending too much money in healthcare. That was a wasted resource. You don’t need to get a CAT scan to prove pain. That’s not something that we normally do. We only do that to Black patients, to patients we don’t believe, to Brown patients, to Indigenous folks, when we say, “Well, you’ve got to prove pain, because you’re superhuman.”
That goes also back to what Dr. Jones was talking about, this legacy and this history of a belief in a biological basis of race. They’ve done studies to prove that medical students believe we have thicker skin — medical students. And I’m not saying that we’re picking on the medical students, because they’re being taught by deans and professors who are saying things like Black people have thicker skin. I mean, I was taught in my own medical school in the late 1990s, which is not that long ago, that there were three biological races: Mongoloid, Caucasoid and Negroid. So, that belief and that language that there’s a biological reason that we don’t feel pain and that we’re superhuman and that we’re —
And it’s also — it’s interesting to see that she was fighting for herself. She knew the right words. He even threatened her. You hear her. She said, “I’ll put you out at 10:00 at night.” We’ve seen those kind of things happen, where we tell patients, “If you don’t act right, I’m not going to give you this epidural.” Right? This threatening around “If you don’t behave the way I want you to behave, I will then punish you, because you’re asking to be valued and not to be in pain. You’re asking for things that are basic human needs, and therefore I don’t think you deserve those things, so let me punish you for even asking to be seen as human.”
AMY GOODMAN: So, in the piece that the four of you wrote, all African American women doctors, in The Washington Post, you compare the death of Dr. Susan Moore with the police killing of George Floyd. Dr. Joia Crear-Perry, you are not only a doctor in the hospitals of this country, but you were in the streets protesting George Floyd’s death. Can you talk about what you see is the connection?
DR. JOIA CREAR-PERRY: Well, there’s an overriding, -arching policing of Blackness. It was in law from the beginning. If you think about like after Reconstruction, we were — that people were told that they should make sure that Black folks don’t go into certain neighborhoods. They were not allowed, refused. To catch a slave running away.
You see these videos of even like recently: In New York City, a woman saw her phone was missing, and she assumed that a Black child had taken it, and went to attack the child, and felt that she had perfect permission as a white woman to attack a 14-year-old child, assuming that they had stolen her phone.
So, that belief that we’re supposed to be policed and organized and planned and controlled is embedded in policing and in healthcare. How we police women’s bodies — and it’s women plus being Black, both things, gendered racism, together — really gets the outcomes that we see, so that throughline.
I don’t want us to blame — and sometimes we’ll focus on the doctor who took care of Dr. Moore in Indiana. And yes, perhaps he should get some kind of accountability for his individual behavior. But the structure, the structural racism, is the undergirding of both our police system and our healthcare system, the belief in needing to control, the belief in needing to not value, to not listen to people, that we’re not having a co-created patient plan.
When we talk about patients, we say things like we want to have — co-create it, and we want to make sure that we have shared decision-making. If you don’t believe in the person that you’re sharing this decision-making with, if you think that they are not fully capable and not fully human, then there’s never really any shared decision-making. It’s authoritarian. And so, that’s the same thing that happens in policing.
So, if we are going to undo the racism that’s in this country, we have to start first with some truth, some historical truth about how we got here and some current truth about what happens today.
So, Dr. Susan Moore’s video gives us a — just the same way that George Floyd’s video did, we’re not just looking at numbers or data. We actually see the people who are being murdered, who are dying, hear their stories, see them as fully human and say, “Why would we ever do that to any human being ever? Don’t we want all people to have justice and joy? Don’t we want them all to be able to thrive?” We wanted George Floyd to still be here, and we also want Dr. Susan Moore to still be here. So how do we use their history and their legacy to build a better world for all of us?
AMY GOODMAN: On Tuesday, Vice President-elect Kamala Harris received a COVID-19 vaccination on live TV at the United Medical Center in Washington’s predominantly Black Anacostia neighborhood.
VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT KAMALA HARRIS: I have now been vaccinated. As Joe likes to say, there’s a big difference between the vaccine and vaccinations. I want to encourage everyone to get the vaccine. It is relatively painless. It happens really quickly. It is safe, the Moderna, the Pfizer. Today, I had the Moderna vaccine. My husband is going to have it today, as well. I look forward to getting the second vaccine.
And literally, this is about saving lives. It’s literally about saving lives. I trust the scientists. And it is the scientists who created and approved this vaccine. So I urge everyone: When it is your turn, get vaccinated.
AMY GOODMAN: So, of course, the vice president-elect, Kamala Harris, will be the first African American and African American woman vice president in U.S. history. And she was injected by Patricia Cummings. She was vaccinated by this African American nurse, who is the daughter of Guyanese immigrants.
The significance, Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones, of seeing this image clearly in the Black community of Washington, D.C., being vaccinated by a Black woman, the Black woman vice president to be? The message that is being sent, as African Americans, studies show, are — perhaps 40% are now willing to get a vaccine? What do you think needs to be overcome for the Black community to feel more comfortable with this vaccine, given the history, you said, for example, of Marion Sims, considered the father of modern gynecology, experimenting on enslaved women?
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES: The first thing is that we don’t need to go out trying to convince people to get the vaccine. We need to honor and hear their questions, answer their questions. And in some cases, the answer to the question could be “I don’t know,” because there is a lot that we still don’t know about the long-term effects of the vaccine or the rare effects.
But I do have to say that when you look at the benefits and the risks, I have decided that when my turn in line comes, I will get the vaccine, because even though there is uncertainty — there are things that we don’t know, because the virus is new and the vaccine is newer. You know, we haven’t been studying it long, and we haven’t studied it in a whole lot of people. But we live with uncertainty in our lives. I am willing to live with the uncertainty associated with the vaccine, as opposed to dying with COVID-19, which is a much bigger risk. The whole issue is a risk-benefit analysis. Both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have shown themselves to be highly, highly effective.
So, what we need to do is not try to say, “Oh, those people, why don’t they just get over that history?” or, “Oh, those people, why do they have all these questions or this distrust?” First of all, we need to make sure that we evidence trustworthiness in all of our systems, going forward. Dr. Susan Moore’s example was not an example that engenders a feeling of, you know, trust, because the system was not trustworthy in her case. So, all of our systems, if we want to convince people to get the vaccine, have to evidence themselves to be trustworthy.
And we, as a nation, need to say, “We honor your lives, not just when you get the vaccine, but we honor your lives, and we’re going to provide the support you need to safely shelter in place. We are going to provide the regulations that the workplaces need, that if you have to go to work, they are safe workplaces. We’re going to provide you with the PPE that you need as a grocery clerk or as a bus driver or a warehouse worker to keep you safe.” It’s not just, “Oh, now that we have the vaccine, we want to convince you to take the vaccine, because, well, maybe we’re worried about herd immunity, and we’re really not worried about you at all, but, you know, to get to herd immunity, we need to do this.”
No, be trustworthy in all ways, and be about my people, my community, my health in all ways. That’s the evidence that is going to really convince people that, yes, maybe I should take the vaccine.
But I have to say, at the individual level right now, risk-benefit, I agree. I can live with the uncertainty, because these two vaccines, in particular, have shown themselves to be highly efficacious.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to put this question to Dr. Joia Crear-Perry. In 2018, tennis star Serena Williams and her husband, the Reddit co-founder, Alexis Ohanian, welcomed into the world their daughter, Alexis Olympia Ohanian Jr. The baby was born by an emergency C-section. Williams told Vogue magazine how she self-diagnosed a life-threatening emergency after giving birth. Shortly after delivering, the tennis star suddenly felt out of breath and assumed she was having a pulmonary embolism, given her history of blood clots.
I want to read from the 2018 piece in Vogue by Rob Haskell that describes Serena Williams’s birth experience: quote, “She walked out of the hospital room so her mother wouldn’t worry and told the nearest nurse, between gasps, that she needed a CT scan with contrast and IV heparin (a blood thinner) right away. The nurse thought her pain medicine might be making her confused. But Serena insisted, and soon enough a doctor was performing an ultrasound of her legs. 'I was like, a Doppler? I told you, I need a CT scan and a heparin drip,' she remembers telling the team. The ultrasound revealed nothing, so they sent her for the CT, and sure enough, several small blood clots had settled in her lungs. Minutes later she was on the drip. 'I was like, listen to Dr. Williams!'”
So, Dr. Joia Crear-Perry, you are president of the National Birth Equity Collaborative. Talk about the significance of what Serena Williams brought to life when it comes to postpartum deaths of African American women.
DR. JOIA CREAR-PERRY: Thank you. You know, I also want to show the throughline between Dr. Susan Moore and Serena Williams. Both of them are experts on their body, and they were seen as not experts, right? They both said, “This is what’s happening. This is what I need.” And the more that they could articulate expertise, the more that the people around them didn’t know what to do with them, because they were so accustomed to the bias inside of them saying, “These people aren’t experts. They don’t know what they’re talking about. I know better. I am the one that’s in control.” And that is the tension that we see when it comes to racism as a structure. I don’t want us to, once again, focus on individuals, but really the structures of how this plays out.
So, for us, we knew, when we found out, about six years ago, through Amnesty International, and the U.N. had sanctioned the United States around the fact that we had the worst outcomes for birthing people in the world, and then that Black people were three to four times more likely to die within a year of childbirth than their white counterparts, that we saw that — we knew that the language was going to be: “Of course they die. They are so fat. They don’t listen. They don’t go to the doctor.” All the blaming and shaming that normally happens to communities of color, the same thing that happened during COVID-19: “Of course they’re dying. They have all these preexisting illnesses. Of course. They all live together, and they don’t follow instruction.” Meanwhile, we’re more likely to put a mask on than anybody else. We’re more likely — we clean not only other people’s houses, we clean our own houses, so we’re usually extra sanitary, because we’re cleaning up for you and for ourselves. So this idea of blaming and shaming, we knew that was going to be the language.
So, Serena Williams was so important, because it showed that a person with wealth, with stature, with grace was, once again, not believed, seen as a poor historian of her own health, even though, if anybody, she’s paid her entire life, since she was a child, around her health. She knows her body better than anybody, because she’s a professional athlete. Professional athletes know everything about their bodies, because that’s how they make money. That’s how they live. For them not to listen to Serena, man, what does that mean for people like Susan Moore or like me or like any of us?
From birthing to elder care, it’s the same throughline of disbelief, of not having trust. When you talk to patients — our work, when we talk to patients that works with hospital systems, from big ones like Kaiser to little ones in Kalamazoo, Michigan, every one of them, what the patients want, when we talk to patients, is to be trusted. They want you to think and know that no matter their skin color, no matter their gender, no matter where they live, that they want justice and joy, that they want — that they are good historians. You don’t write things down like “noncompliant.” When you’re doing those things, you’re blaming and shaming the patient and really not thinking about all the things that could be happening.
So, Serena coming forth and talking about her — she also reminded me so much around how she walked outside because she didn’t want to scare her family members. That’s typical Black woman, right? Like, “I don’t anybody to get upset, so let me just go out here and just mention right quick that I might be dying, and this is what I need.” And then, she knew exactly, the same way that Dr. Susan Moore did: “These are the medicines that I need. This is the testing that I need.”
And unfortunately, when we show expertise as Black people, because we have not been historically seen as experts about anything, well, people don’t know what to do with that. So, nurses, doctors, systems, cultures, when we show up as the expert, we can feel the nervousness that others have around our expertise. But we’re like, “That’s your bias, not ours. That’s your assumptions about who I’m supposed to be, the box you’ve put me into.”
And wouldn’t it be amazing for all of us to let go of all of those boxes, to see Serena, Dr. Moore, to see our patients who live in Bogalusa, Louisiana, anywhere, as experts on their own bodies, that they have value, that they have thoughts and ideas that are amazing, no matter where you live, no matter your race or your gender?
And that’s really what we’ve learned through the Black maternal health work, working inside of hospitals, that when you look at your data, when you disaggregate your data, without question, Black patients will receive pain management later, they get their hypertension treated later. And you can really undo that. You can stop the structure of the system and say, “We are devaluing people, and we’re not going to do that anymore. We’re going to really see all of them and believe them and trust them and invest in them and make sure that they all can be seen in the future.”
AMY GOODMAN: Talking about throughlines, as we wrap up, Dr. Joia Crear-Perry, I think of Erica Garner, who was a guest on our show a number of times, fierce fighter against police brutality. Erica was the daughter, of course, of Eric Garner, who was killed by police in Staten Island. Erica would die just after giving birth to her second child, when she was just 27 years old. We did a show on Erica and Serena Williams showing that throughline. As we wrap up, a final thought on the Lancet study that you did, the respected international medical journal, called “Moving towards anti-racist praxis in medicine”?
DR. JOIA CREAR-PERRY: Yeah, and I just want to highlight that throughline. She died from cardiomyopathy. Her heart was enlarged. Just think about that. The stress of trying to fight for the value of her father and for his death not to be ignored and to hold the policemen accountable, ultimately, caused her heart to weaken — the stress of having to fight for humanity. For years, we liked to blame genetics on cardiomyopathy and looking for what the gene is that makes people’s heart weaker. But we know that your stress, your mental health, impacts your physical health. And until we undo racism, we’re going to see Black folks having higher rates of obesity, higher rates of hypertension and higher rates of cardiomyopathy. And that throughline of racism is consistent for all of us. And that’s what’s shortening all of our lives. So we need that to end.
And that’s what we talk about in this antiracism praxis. If I was taught in medical school, as I was — I was taught that there were three biological races — that’s racism. Racism was not created by God. Racism was not created by medicine. Those things have been — racism was created by people who wanted to hold power and wealth. And so, our job is to fight for equality and justice and joy, and to say, “How do we undo all these places inside of medicine where we say that Black people have different lungs or different kidney capacity or different pelvis shapes?” All this talk that we have a different shape of our pelvis, how could that possibly be, when it’s just melanin production that makes us different? That’s the only one difference. Our pelvis and our melanin have nothing to do with each other. So, really undoing those racist ideas that we were all taught inside of medicine —
AMY GOODMAN: Well —
DR. JOIA CREAR-PERRY: — so that we can have antiracism. Sorry.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you so much for being with us, Dr. Joia Crear-Perry, president of the National Birth Equity Collaborative, and Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones, family physician, epidemiologist, past president of the American Public Health Association, teaching at both Emory School of Public Health, as well as the Morehouse School of Medicine. We will link to the piece they co-authored with two other African American women doctors in The Washington Post, “Say her name: Dr. Susan Moore.”
When we come back, “The truth in Black and white: An apology from The Kansas City Star.” Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-12-30--"This Is How Black People Get Killed": Dr. Susan Moore Dies of COVID After Decrying Racist Care

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : As the United States reports world record deaths and hospitalizations from COVID-19 in the final days of 2020 , we look at how the pandemic that ’ s ravaged the country this year has shone stark new light on racism in medical care .
We begin with a now-viral video recorded by Black physician Dr. Susan Moore and posted to her Facebook earlier this month , in which she describes racist treatment by medical staff at a hospital in Indianapolis who did @ @ @ @ @ @ @ despite being in intense pain and being a doctor herself .
Dr. Moore says she had to beg to receive the antiviral drug remdesivir and pain medication , and accuses a doctor at Indiana University Health North Hospital of ignoring her pleas because she was Black .
This is Dr. Susan Moore , as she summoned the energy to speak from her hospital bed , days before she would die .
She had an oxygen tube in her nose .
And then he further stated , “ You should just go home right @ @ @ @ @ @ @ feel comfortable giving you any more narcotics.
” I was in so much pain from my neck .
My neck hurt so bad .
I was crushed .
He made me feel like I was a drug addict , and he knew I was a physician .
I don ’ t take narcotics .
I was hurting .
Well , next thing I know , I ’ m getting a stat CT of my neck with and without contrast .
The CT went down a little bit into my lungs , and you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ lymphadenopathy all throughout my neck .
And all of a sudden , “ Yes , we will treat your pain.
” You have to show proof that you have something wrong with you in order for you to get the medicine .
I put forth , and I maintain : If I was white , I wouldn ’ t have to go through that .
… The other thing that that white doctor , Bannec , said was that if I stayed , that he would send me home Saturday at 10 p.m. @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that ?
On a week — who does that ?
… This is how Black people get killed , when you send them home , and they don ’ t know how to fight for themselves .
I had to talk to somebody , maybe the media — somebody — to let people know how I ’ m being treated up in this place .
And he gladly told me , “ I know you ’ re a doctor.
” And he didn ’ t want the Black doctor to have no medicine @ @ @ @ @ @ @ nerve to say it ’ s because of him , the nurse , that I got the medicine .
“ Really ?
Because of you ?
No .
How about because I had that stat CT of my neck , where it showed all of that lymphadenopathy and infiltrates ?
Yeah , you didn ’ t know about that ?
You didn ’ t get that in the report ?
” That ’ s what I said .
Mm-hmm .
Mm-hmm .
To being Black up in here , this is what happens @ @ @ @ @ @ @ died due to complications from COVID-19 on December 20th , just over two weeks after she recorded this video and posted it to her Facebook page .
She was 52 years old .
Her 19-year-old son Henry Muhammed is now left to care for her parents , who are both suffering from dementia .
The president and CEO of Indiana University Health issued a statement in response to her death , saying the technical aspects of the treatment she received , quote , “ may not have shown the level of compassion and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ matters most to patients , ” unquote .
Dr. Moore ’ s chilling message has been compared to the video of George Floyd begging for his life as he was killed by Minneapolis police .
When we come back , we ’ ll speak to two leading Black women doctors fighting racial disparities in healthcare .
They co-wrote a piece in The Washington Post titled “ Say her name : Dr. Susan Moore.
” Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: As the United States reports world record deaths and hospitalizations from COVID-19 in the final days of 2020, we look at how the pandemic that’s ravaged the country this year has shone stark new light on racism in medical care.
We begin with a now-viral video recorded by Black physician Dr. Susan Moore and posted to her Facebook earlier this month, in which she describes racist treatment by medical staff at a hospital in Indianapolis who did not respond to her pleas for care despite being in intense pain and being a doctor herself. Dr. Moore says she had to beg to receive the antiviral drug remdesivir and pain medication, and accuses a doctor at Indiana University Health North Hospital of ignoring her pleas because she was Black.
This is Dr. Susan Moore, as she summoned the energy to speak from her hospital bed, days before she would die. She had an oxygen tube in her nose.
DR. SUSAN MOORE: At that time I had only received two treatments of the remdesivir. He says, “Ah, you don’t need it. You’re not even short of breath.” I said, “Yes, I am.” Then he went on to say, “You don’t qualify.” I must have, because I’ve gotten two treatments.
And then he further stated, “You should just go home right now. And I don’t feel comfortable giving you any more narcotics.” I was in so much pain from my neck. My neck hurt so bad. I was crushed. He made me feel like I was a drug addict, and he knew I was a physician. I don’t take narcotics. I was hurting.
So, spoke to a patient advocate, who left me wanting: “There’s not much I can do.” So I started asking, “Send me to another hospital where they can treat me. If they’re not going to treat me here properly, send me to another hospital.”
Well, next thing I know, I’m getting a stat CT of my neck with and without contrast. The CT went down a little bit into my lungs, and you can see new pulmonary infiltrates, new lymphadenopathy all throughout my neck. And all of a sudden, “Yes, we will treat your pain.” You have to show proof that you have something wrong with you in order for you to get the medicine. I put forth, and I maintain: If I was white, I wouldn’t have to go through that. …
The other thing that that white doctor, Bannec, said was that if I stayed, that he would send me home Saturday at 10 p.m., in the dark. Who does that? On a week — who does that? … This is how Black people get killed, when you send them home, and they don’t know how to fight for themselves. I had to talk to somebody, maybe the media — somebody — to let people know how I’m being treated up in this place.
And he gladly told me, “I know you’re a doctor.” And he didn’t want the Black doctor to have no medicine, nothing, and then had the nerve to say it’s because of him, the nurse, that I got the medicine. “Really? Because of you? No. How about because I had that stat CT of my neck, where it showed all of that lymphadenopathy and infiltrates? Yeah, you didn’t know about that? You didn’t get that in the report?” That’s what I said. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. To being Black up in here, this is what happens.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Susan Moore died due to complications from COVID-19 on December 20th, just over two weeks after she recorded this video and posted it to her Facebook page. She was 52 years old. Her 19-year-old son Henry Muhammed is now left to care for her parents, who are both suffering from dementia.
The president and CEO of Indiana University Health issued a statement in response to her death, saying the technical aspects of the treatment she received, quote, “may not have shown the level of compassion and respect we strive for in understanding what matters most to patients,” unquote.
Dr. Moore’s chilling message has been compared to the video of George Floyd begging for his life as he was killed by Minneapolis police.
When we come back, we’ll speak to two leading Black women doctors fighting racial disparities in healthcare. They co-wrote a piece in The Washington Post titled “Say her name: Dr. Susan Moore.” Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-12-30--Headlines for December 30, 2020

Headlines for December 30, 2020

The U.S. reported 3,725 coronavirus deaths Tuesday — the highest daily death toll yet — and 124,000 hospitalizations , also @ @ @ @ @ Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is now predicting the U.S. will hit 400,000 COVID-19 @ @ @ @ @ the day Trump leaves office .
The first U.S. case of the coronavirus variant first @ @ @ @ @ reported in Colorado .
The patient is in his twenties and has not traveled recently @ @ @ @ @ expect to see more cases of the variant soon .
British officials believe the variant @ @ @ @ @ more infectious , though this has not been experimentally verified .
In Los Angeles , @ @ @ @ @ to declare an “ internal disaster ” due to oxygen supply issues .
In Louisiana @ @ @ @ @ has died of COVID-19 at the age of 41 .
He was due to be @ @ @ @ @

The U.S. reported 3,725 coronavirus deaths Tuesday — the highest daily death toll yet — and 124,000 hospitalizations, also a world record. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is now predicting the U.S. will hit 400,000 COVID-19 deaths by January 20, the day Trump leaves office.
The first U.S. case of the coronavirus variant first detected in Britain has been reported in Colorado. The patient is in his twenties and has not traveled recently. Health officials say they expect to see more cases of the variant soon. British officials believe the variant is up to 70% more infectious, though this has not been experimentally verified.
In Los Angeles, at least five hospitals had to declare an “internal disaster” due to oxygen supply issues.
In Louisiana, Republican Congressmember-elect Luke Letlow has died of COVID-19 at the age of 41. He was due to be sworn in on Sunday.