democracynow--2020-11-16--"I Need That Pardon": Ronnie Long, Free After 44 Years, Demands Justice for His Wrongful Conviction

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , as we turn to North Carolina , which saw record voter turnout this year , including by its nearly one-and-a-half million African American voters — among them , Ronnie Long , which doesn ’ t make him unusual , except that he had just come out of prison after spending 44 years behind bars for a crime he did not commit .
He walked out of the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ August 27th .
AMY GOODMAN : That was Ronnie Long speaking just after his release from prison earlier this year in August .
His ordeal began in 1976 , when he was convicted by an all-white jury of raping a 54-year-old woman named Sarah Bost , who was a wealthy white widow .
In 2015 , his lawyers learned investigators had withheld exculpatory evidence proving his innocence , including semen samples and fingerprints taken from the crime scene that did not match his own .
The evidence was either withheld from his attorneys @ @ @ @ @ @ @ while witnesses for the state committed perjury at his trial .
It would take several more years and a ruling by the 4th U.S .
Circuit Court of Appeals for Long to win his freedom .
At a virtual hearing in May , Judge James Wynn asked , quote , “ What is it about us that we want to prosecute and keep people in jail when we know evidence might exist that might lead to a different outcome ?
… Why is that so offensive to us now that we want to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
… When did justice leave the process such that we let our rules blind us to the realities that we all can see ?
” the judge wrote .
Ronnie Long ’ s mother , Elizabeth , passed away just weeks before his release , which also came on the birthday of his wife Ashleigh .
She had not seen her husband since March , when Albemarle prison was closed to visitors due to COVID-19 .
Ronnie Long was 20 years old when he was wrongfully convicted .
He ’ s now @ @ @ @ @ @ @ He joins us now from Durham , North Carolina .
Ronnie , welcome back to — welcome to Democracy Now !
for the first time .
How does it feel to be free ?
RONNIE LONG : I mean , when you ’ re talking about coming out of restraints and being restrained and being able to get up and do what you want to do without somebody telling you what to do , experiencing life right now as it is — because , you know , I wasn ’ t introduced to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is a little bit too fast for me .
But , I mean , you ’ ve got people , you understand what I ’ m saying , that ’ s trying to adapt .
I mean , it ’ s great for me .
It ’ s a blessing within itself .
I ’ m talking about miraculous , blessing within itself for me to even be sitting here right now .
AMY GOODMAN : And what was it like to vote for the first time , Ronnie Long ?
RONNIE LONG @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a lot of Blacks .
I mean , you ’ ve got a lot of Blacks right now today , you understand what I ’ m saying , they don ’ t even believe in that vote thing , because , number one , they feel as though , you understand what I ’ m saying , they ’ re going to put who they — when they say “ they , ” they ’ re talking about capitalists .
The capitalists , they ’ re going to put who they want in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was the first time I ever voted , you understand what I ’ m saying ?
I ain ’ t never been that one or one that was tied up in the situation like that .
I didn ’ t put any emphasis on it .
But as I ’ ve become older , you understand what I ’ m saying — like I said , I was locked up when I was 20 years old .
So , as I got older , when I got out , I felt as though @ @ @ @ @ @ @ saying , this system is in a serious need of reform .
So , I urge younger Blacks , older Blacks , people of color , all people , to exercise their right that you have , you understand what I ’ m saying ?
Even though you may think your vote don ’ t make a difference , somewhere down the line , you understand what I ’ m saying , it might be the vote to make a difference .
AMY GOODMAN : Last month , North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper @ @ @ @ @ @ @ consider the petition signed by more than 50,000 people calling for your pardon , as well as three others .
This is what he said .
AMY GOODMAN : That was North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper .
I want to read more from the concurring opinion by Judge James Wynn of the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals , which ruled to send your case back , Ronnie Long , to the federal courts in North Carolina .
Wynn is an African American Obama appointee who also grew up in a small North Carolina @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , “ Officers hid evidence despite knowing that doing so could lead directly to Mr. Long ’ s death .
Such an action is repugnant in any context .
But it takes on a particularly sinister meaning here , given our country ’ s historical treatment of Black men accused of raping white women.
” Ronnie Long , what are you demanding of Governor Cooper right now ?
RONNIE LONG : I mean , let me go through this thing realistically , right ?
My legal documents speak for themselves .
The Constitution @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
I mean , you ’ ve got people that have been victimized by the system , like myself , and then you turn around and you put me back into a society and expect for me to live a productive life .
I ’ m saying to Roy Cooper , if there ’ s any kind of compassion in your heart , man , you understand what I ’ m saying — you talk about you ’ re a religious person — you talk about , you understand what I ’ m @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to do the right thing .
Right now I ’ m struggling .
I struggled 44 years to come from behind them fences , but come out here in the street and continue to struggle .
What is it that I ’ m asking Roy Cooper for that he can only — I mean , he ain ’ t got to do nothing but sign his name and pardon me and three other brothers , you understand what I ’ m saying , who have been victimized by a corrupt judicial system here @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And these people ain ’ t crazy .
People are like — I mean , when I say “ these people , ” I ’ m talking about these people that ’ s in these authoritarian positions , you understand what I ’ m saying , that they don ’ t want to do their job .
Roy Cooper needs to pardon me and them other brothers so we can get on with our life , on what little life we might have left .
AMY GOODMAN : So , Ronnie Long , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ pardon , that would allow you to receive a maximum of $ 750,000 in compensation for being unjustly imprisoned .
Seven hundred fifty thousand dollars .
I just took out a calculator .
So , that is $ 17,000 a year for the 44 years you were wrongly imprisoned .
You haven ’ t even gotten that .
Are you suing the state ?
RONNIE LONG : I mean , this is something that ’ s being litigated right now , right ?
It ’ s a subject that ’ s being litigated @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I ’ ve got a defense team .
I got a team , you understand what I ’ m saying , that ’ s more or less going to go to work on this , because , I mean , let ’ s be realistic about this whole thing now .
This is why I put all my legal documents online .
You ain ’ t got to believe what I say .
You ain ’ t got to accept what I say .
I tell you to go to Ronnie Long — @ @ @ @ @ @ @ my documents online , because I want people to be able to go to my web address and look at my documents and see what the state of North Carolina , you understand what I ’ m saying , they ’ ve done to me .
And not only me — it didn ’ t stop with me .
They ’ re still doing it .
Let me show you something .
In my case , the chief of police went to the County Commissioner ’ s Office , got the master lists @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was supposed to pick me a panel from , and started deleting names off the master list .
He put in that pool , that jury pool that I picked my panel from — he picked who he wanted to go in there .
But I didn ’ t find out about this ’ til 30 years later .
My thing is this here .
I mean , if anybody like Roy Cooper had some kind of compassion in his heart , you understand what I ’ m saying , to be able @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s right for the people , I need that pardon in order to try to get on with my life .
AMY GOODMAN : Ronnie Long , talk about those last months in prison — you were there during the COVID-19 lockdown — the dangers for you in prison .
I mean , you were in your 44th year you were in prison , packed into this prison with others , the outbreak of COVID-19 .
What was it like inside ?
RONNIE LONG : Like a can of sardines .
You @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what I ’ m saying , that ’ s laying around on top of each other .
Pretty soon — I mean , sure , indeed , they come in .
They take your temperature .
They ’ ll give you a mask and tell you to wear that .
But the social distancing is not there .
It ’ s not there .
They can not distance the prisoners from each other without reducing the prison population .
AMY GOODMAN : Ronnie , your mom died in the last weeks that you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , our condolences on the loss of your mother .
What did that mean to you , weeks before you got out ?
RONNIE LONG : My mom and my dad have always supported me .
When I knew I was before an all-white jury , in front of a white jury for sexually assaulting a white woman , me and my family knew that I was on my way to the penitentiary .
How are you going to send a tainted jury pool down there for me to pick a panel from @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , in there for sexually assaulting a pillar , a wealthy white female , in front of a white judge , white DA and 12 white jurors .
Me and my family knew that I was on my way to the penitentiary .
The only thing we can do is try to outlast this storm that I was going through .
I used to talk to my mother every day on the phone , you understand what I ’ m saying ?
I talked to her every day on the phone , because @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was , more or less , like , trying to fill that empty void that was in my mother ’ s life , because they had been together for over 50-something years .
My mom used to always tell me she was going to be there when I get out : “ I ’ m going to be right here when you get out.
” Those 15 , 20 minutes that those lying ass Concord Police Department came down to my house and told my mama were going to take me no more @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I will be back within that time , that I didn ’ t need anybody more than me .
Those 15 , 20 minutes turned into 44 years .
AMY GOODMAN : You also married when you were in prison , Ronnie .
You married your wife Ashleigh .
We just showed images of her greeting you as you came out of prison after 44 years .
RONNIE LONG : Yeah , that was her .
That was her .
Hey , look , hey look , I ’ m like — I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ watching TV .
The officer come in and tell me to pack my stuff .
And I ’ m looking at him , like , “ Pack my stuff ?
Pack my stuff ?
For what ?
” Man told me to pack my stuff and go to receiving .
When I get to receiving , I ’ ve got a suit of clothes laying right there , and them people are telling me I ’ m going home .
Man , I almost passed out .
For eight years , the very @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I didn ’ t never see anything but the sky .
I was behind a wall so tall , you understand what I ’ m saying , where you didn ’ t see nothing else but the sky .
For eight years I lived like that .
But I never lost focus on what my mission was .
AMY GOODMAN : Ronnie Long , I want to thank you so much for being with us .
Ronnie Long spent 44 years in a North Carolina prison for a crime he did not commit @ @ @ @ @ @ @ appeals court vacated his conviction and the state finally dropped the case .
He voted for the first time this year .
His website is FreeRonnieLongNow.org .
And that does it for our broadcast .
Democracy Now !
is produced with Renée Feltz , Mike Burke , Deena Guzder , Libby Rainey , Nermeen Shaikh , María Taracena , Carla Wills , Tami Woronoff , Charina Nadura , Sam Alcoff , Tey-Marie Astudillo , John Hamilton , Robby Karran , Hany Massoud and Adriano Contreras .
Special thanks to Julie Crosby , Becca @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Thanks so much for joining us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman, as we turn to North Carolina, which saw record voter turnout this year, including by its nearly one-and-a-half million African American voters — among them, Ronnie Long, which doesn’t make him unusual, except that he had just come out of prison after spending 44 years behind bars for a crime he did not commit. He walked out of the Albemarle Correctional Institute a free man on August 27th.
RONNIE LONG: I’m disappointed, really, in a system that’s supposed to be, you understand what I’m saying, about right and wrong. And I’m disappointed that you have people, you understand what I’m saying, that’s in positions that don’t want to do the right thing, but they’ll do things, you understand what I’m saying, to try to mislead you. You live and die by what you do. You reap what you sow, you understand what I’m saying? So, I’ve always believed that, you understand what I’m saying, no matter how difficult this thing had become, one day I will be standing where I’m standing right now. And I ain’t never gave up that hope.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Ronnie Long speaking just after his release from prison earlier this year in August.
His ordeal began in 1976, when he was convicted by an all-white jury of raping a 54-year-old woman named Sarah Bost, who was a wealthy white widow. In 2015, his lawyers learned investigators had withheld exculpatory evidence proving his innocence, including semen samples and fingerprints taken from the crime scene that did not match his own. The evidence was either withheld from his attorneys or disappeared while in government hands, while witnesses for the state committed perjury at his trial.
It would take several more years and a ruling by the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for Long to win his freedom. At a virtual hearing in May, Judge James Wynn asked, quote, “What is it about us that we want to prosecute and keep people in jail when we know evidence might exist that might lead to a different outcome? … Why is that so offensive to us now that we want to protect illegal activity from forty-four years ago? … When did justice leave the process such that we let our rules blind us to the realities that we all can see?” the judge wrote.
Ronnie Long’s mother, Elizabeth, passed away just weeks before his release, which also came on the birthday of his wife Ashleigh. She had not seen her husband since March, when Albemarle prison was closed to visitors due to COVID-19. Ronnie Long was 20 years old when he was wrongfully convicted. He’s now 65 and has finally been exonerated. He joins us now from Durham, North Carolina.
Ronnie, welcome back to — welcome to Democracy Now! for the first time. How does it feel to be free?
RONNIE LONG: I mean, when you’re talking about coming out of restraints and being restrained and being able to get up and do what you want to do without somebody telling you what to do, experiencing life right now as it is — because, you know, I wasn’t introduced to this world here. This world here is a little bit too fast for me. But, I mean, you’ve got people, you understand what I’m saying, that’s trying to adapt. I mean, it’s great for me. It’s a blessing within itself. I’m talking about miraculous, blessing within itself for me to even be sitting here right now.
AMY GOODMAN: And what was it like to vote for the first time, Ronnie Long?
RONNIE LONG: Now, you’ve got a lot of Blacks. I mean, you’ve got a lot of Blacks right now today, you understand what I’m saying, they don’t even believe in that vote thing, because, number one, they feel as though, you understand what I’m saying, they’re going to put who they — when they say “they,” they’re talking about capitalists. The capitalists, they’re going to put who they want in there anyway.
But this year here was the first time I ever voted, you understand what I’m saying? I ain’t never been that one or one that was tied up in the situation like that. I didn’t put any emphasis on it. But as I’ve become older, you understand what I’m saying — like I said, I was locked up when I was 20 years old. So, as I got older, when I got out, I felt as though, you understand what I’m saying, this system is in a serious need of reform. So, I urge younger Blacks, older Blacks, people of color, all people, to exercise their right that you have, you understand what I’m saying? Even though you may think your vote don’t make a difference, somewhere down the line, you understand what I’m saying, it might be the vote to make a difference.
AMY GOODMAN: Last month, North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper said for the first time he would consider the petition signed by more than 50,000 people calling for your pardon, as well as three others. This is what he said.
GOV. ROY COOPER: That petition from Mr. Long, which I think was received a week or so ago, will receive careful consideration by me and by my office. It is a significant power of the governor to be able to make decisions about what a judge and jury have done. And I take that power under the Constitution very seriously. But I will review that application along with others.
AMY GOODMAN: That was North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper. I want to read more from the concurring opinion by Judge James Wynn of the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals, which ruled to send your case back, Ronnie Long, to the federal courts in North Carolina. Wynn is an African American Obama appointee who also grew up in a small North Carolina town. The judge wrote, quote, “Officers hid evidence despite knowing that doing so could lead directly to Mr. Long’s death. Such an action is repugnant in any context. But it takes on a particularly sinister meaning here, given our country’s historical treatment of Black men accused of raping white women.” Ronnie Long, what are you demanding of Governor Cooper right now?
RONNIE LONG: I mean, let me go through this thing realistically, right? My legal documents speak for themselves. The Constitution violations in this case speak for itself. I mean, you’ve got people that have been victimized by the system, like myself, and then you turn around and you put me back into a society and expect for me to live a productive life. I’m saying to Roy Cooper, if there’s any kind of compassion in your heart, man, you understand what I’m saying — you talk about you’re a religious person — you talk about, you understand what I’m saying, how you’ve got to do the right thing. Right now I’m struggling. I struggled 44 years to come from behind them fences, but come out here in the street and continue to struggle. What is it that I’m asking Roy Cooper for that he can only — I mean, he ain’t got to do nothing but sign his name and pardon me and three other brothers, you understand what I’m saying, who have been victimized by a corrupt judicial system here in the state of North Carolina. And these people ain’t crazy. People are like — I mean, when I say “these people,” I’m talking about these people that’s in these authoritarian positions, you understand what I’m saying, that they don’t want to do their job. Roy Cooper needs to pardon me and them other brothers so we can get on with our life, on what little life we might have left.
AMY GOODMAN: So, Ronnie Long, if he were to grant you a pardon, that would allow you to receive a maximum of $750,000 in compensation for being unjustly imprisoned. Seven hundred fifty thousand dollars. I just took out a calculator. So, that is $17,000 a year for the 44 years you were wrongly imprisoned. You haven’t even gotten that. Are you suing the state?
RONNIE LONG: I mean, this is something that’s being litigated right now, right? It’s a subject that’s being litigated right now, like I say. I’ve got a defense team. I got a team, you understand what I’m saying, that’s more or less going to go to work on this, because, I mean, let’s be realistic about this whole thing now. This is why I put all my legal documents online. You ain’t got to believe what I say. You ain’t got to accept what I say. I tell you to go to Ronnie Long — FreeRonnieLongNow.org. This is where I put my documents online, because I want people to be able to go to my web address and look at my documents and see what the state of North Carolina, you understand what I’m saying, they’ve done to me. And not only me — it didn’t stop with me. They’re still doing it.
Let me show you something. In my case, the chief of police went to the County Commissioner’s Office, got the master lists of all prospective jurors, that I was supposed to pick me a panel from, and started deleting names off the master list. He put in that pool, that jury pool that I picked my panel from — he picked who he wanted to go in there. But I didn’t find out about this ’til 30 years later.
My thing is this here. I mean, if anybody like Roy Cooper had some kind of compassion in his heart, you understand what I’m saying, to be able to see through things and do what’s right for the people, I need that pardon in order to try to get on with my life.
AMY GOODMAN: Ronnie Long, talk about those last months in prison — you were there during the COVID-19 lockdown — the dangers for you in prison. I mean, you were in your 44th year you were in prison, packed into this prison with others, the outbreak of COVID-19. What was it like inside?
RONNIE LONG: Like a can of sardines. You’ve got people, you understand what I’m saying, that’s laying around on top of each other. Pretty soon — I mean, sure, indeed, they come in. They take your temperature. They’ll give you a mask and tell you to wear that. But the social distancing is not there. It’s not there. They cannot distance the prisoners from each other without reducing the prison population.
AMY GOODMAN: Ronnie?
RONNIE LONG: North Carolina — yes, yes.
AMY GOODMAN: Ronnie, your mom died in the last weeks that you were in prison. First of all, our condolences on the loss of your mother. What did that mean to you, weeks before you got out?
RONNIE LONG: My mom and my dad have always supported me. When I knew I was before an all-white jury, in front of a white jury for sexually assaulting a white woman, me and my family knew that I was on my way to the penitentiary. How are you going to send a tainted jury pool down there for me to pick a panel from? I ended up with 12 whites, in there for sexually assaulting a pillar, a wealthy white female, in front of a white judge, white DA and 12 white jurors. Me and my family knew that I was on my way to the penitentiary. The only thing we can do is try to outlast this storm that I was going through.
I used to talk to my mother every day on the phone, you understand what I’m saying? I talked to her every day on the phone, because after I lost my father, I was, more or less, like, trying to fill that empty void that was in my mother’s life, because they had been together for over 50-something years. My mom used to always tell me she was going to be there when I get out: “I’m going to be right here when you get out.”
Those 15, 20 minutes that those lying ass Concord Police Department came down to my house and told my mama were going to take me no more than 15 to 20 minutes, that I will be back within that time, that I didn’t need anybody more than me. Those 15, 20 minutes turned into 44 years.
AMY GOODMAN: You also married when you were in prison, Ronnie. You married your wife Ashleigh. We just showed images of her greeting you as you came out of prison after 44 years.
RONNIE LONG: Yeah, that was her. That was her. Hey, look, hey look, I’m like — I’m sitting in the cell block watching TV. The officer come in and tell me to pack my stuff. And I’m looking at him, like, “Pack my stuff? Pack my stuff? For what?” Man told me to pack my stuff and go to receiving. When I get to receiving, I’ve got a suit of clothes laying right there, and them people are telling me I’m going home. Man, I almost passed out. For eight years, the very first eight years of this 44, I didn’t never see anything but the sky. I was behind a wall so tall, you understand what I’m saying, where you didn’t see nothing else but the sky. For eight years I lived like that. But I never lost focus on what my mission was.
AMY GOODMAN: Ronnie Long, I want to thank you so much for being with us. Ronnie Long spent 44 years in a North Carolina prison for a crime he did not commit, released in August after a federal appeals court vacated his conviction and the state finally dropped the case. He voted for the first time this year. His website is FreeRonnieLongNow.org.
And that does it for our broadcast. Democracy Now! is produced with Renée Feltz, Mike Burke, Deena Guzder, Libby Rainey, Nermeen Shaikh, María Taracena, Carla Wills, Tami Woronoff, Charina Nadura, Sam Alcoff, Tey-Marie Astudillo, John Hamilton, Robby Karran, Hany Massoud and Adriano Contreras. Special thanks to Julie Crosby, Becca Staley. I’m Amy Goodman. Thanks so much for joining us.


democracynow--2020-11-16--Ceasefire Ends in Occupied Western Sahara After U.S.-Backed Moroccan Military Launches Operation

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
A nearly three-decade-old ceasefire has ended in occupied Western Sahara .
Morocco has occupied the territory since 1975 in defiance of the United Nations and the international community .
Western Sahara is widely considered to be Africa ’ s last colony .
Over the weekend , fighting broke out in several areas between the Moroccan military and the Polisario Front , the Sahrawi liberation @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has intensified its repression in occupied Western Sahara , raiding the homes of independence activists , cracking down on protests .
Moroccan military drones were reportedly spotted in the city of Dakhla .
The ceasefire ended Friday after the Moroccan military broke into a no-go buffer zone in southern Western Sahara and exchanged fire with the Polisario Front .
For the past three weeks , Sahrawi civilian protesters had blocked a Morocco-built road in the area that Sahrawis consider to be illegal .
The peaceful blockade backed up traffic for miles and cut @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the south .
The Moroccan military entered the buffer zone on Friday morning to disperse the civilians , who were evacuated to safety by the Polisario Front .
Morocco took military action just hours after U.S. Major General Andrew Rohling met in Morocco with the commander of the Royal Moroccan Armed Forces Southern Zone , which includes occupied Western Sahara .
At the United Nations , a spokesperson for U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres warned against further violations of the ceasefire .
AMY GOODMAN : The Polisario Front says hundreds of Sahrawi volunteers have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ over the weekend from Sahrawi refugee camps in Algeria .
Sidi Omar , the Polisario Front ’ s representative to the United Nations , said , quote , “ For us , it is an open war , ” unquote .
In the streets of Laayoune , the largest city in Western Sahara , Sahrawi protesters took to the streets in a nighttime demonstration for independence .
AMY GOODMAN : Sahrawis also demonstrated over the weekend in other cities , including occupied Dakhla .
AMY GOODMAN : Protests in solidarity with Sahrawi independence @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and in New Zealand , where activists with Extinction Rebellion and other groups protested at a fertilizer company which buys phosphate from occupied Western Sahara .
In a moment , we ’ ll speak to professor Jacob Mundy at Colgate University about the end of the ceasefire , but first let ’ s take a look at the roots of the crisis .
In 2016 , Democracy Now !
broke the media blockade imposed by Morocco and reported from inside occupied Western Sahara .
We were the first international news team to report @ @ @ @ @ @ @ This is an excerpt from our documentary , Four Days in Western Sahara : Africa ’ s Last Colony .
AMY GOODMAN : An excerpt from Democracy Now !
's documentary , _Four Days in Western Sahara : Africa 's Last Colony_ .
Special thanks to Mike Burke , John Hamilton , Denis Moynihan and Laura Gottesdiener .
You can watch the full documentary at democracynow.org .
On Friday , a nearly three-decade-old ceasefire has ended in occupied Western Sahara after Morocco launched a military operation .
We ’ re now joined by @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and conflict studies and Middle Eastern and Islamic studies at Colgate University .
He co-authored the book Western Sahara : War , Nationalism , and Conflict Irresolution .
Professor Mundy , it ’ s great to have you on Democracy Now !
We just went deep dive into the history of what ’ s happening in Western Sahara , Africa ’ s last colony , because so few people understand what ’ s happening there .
But this critical moment that took place last week when Morocco violated the no buffer zone , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ceasefire .
JACOB MUNDY : Yeah , we haven ’ t seen fighting like this in Western Sahara since 1991 .
There have been periods where , due to increasing tensions and the lack of progress toward self-determination , we ’ ve seen tensions on the rise , but to have open warfare like this is very significant .
The civilians that were blockading the road , being really the only paved road that connects West Africa to Europe , was a significant tactical victory by Polisario , and clearly it aggravated Morocco @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
And Morocco has said explicitly that this was a military operation .
So , what we have is Moroccan forces crossing into a restricted area that ’ s technically under Polisario sovereignty , so this is a clear violation of the ceasefire .
And we ’ ve heard nothing from the Security Council .
AMY GOODMAN : So , explain what the stakes are right now .
And also , what do you understand is U.S. involvement ?
We saw this tweet from Saharawi Voice : “ On the same day the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ yesterday , US Army Maj. Gen. Andrew Rohling was meeting with Moroccan Gen. Belkhir El Farouk , who ’ s in charge of the Moroccan army ’ s operations in Western Sahara.
” JACOB MUNDY : Well , the significance is that if this spirals out of control , you could see a very , very significant war between Morocco and Polisario forces .
Were Morocco to chase Polisario forces all the way into Algeria , then you could see a third party enter , which is Algeria , which is also on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ very concerned about this in terms of what it does for security across the Sahara region , which we ’ ve seen in recent years has been a zone that ’ s seen a lot of conflict and terrorism and unfortunate things like that .
The connections between the Moroccan military and the U.S. military have grown in recent years , largely due to Morocco ’ s cooperation with the construction of AFRICOM as the U.S. military command in Africa .
Morocco hosts one of the largest training exercises organized by AFRICOM .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ annual exercise , where countries from all over Africa participate .
And it ’ s usually held — provocatively , I think — in southern Morocco not too far from Western Sahara .
So , it certainly is not good optics that Morocco chose to launch this military incursion in violation of the U.N. ceasefire on the same day that military commanders were in Morocco preparing for their annual African Lion exercise .
AMY GOODMAN : And can you talk about what happened when the United States was pushing for Arab nations to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , among others , Jared Kushner making a massive weapons deal with UAE ?
And then we heard that Morocco would be one of the countries that would do this , as well .
Now , in 2019 , in the Trump administration , major weapons sales to Morocco , and then we heard that perhaps Morocco would also recognize Israel , perhaps in exchange for U.S. recognizing de facto Morocco ’ s occupation , de facto occupation of , annexation of Western Sahara .
JACOB MUNDY : Yeah , we ’ ve @ @ @ @ @ @ @ It hasn ’ t happened yet , thankfully .
The State Department has actually , in some ways , been , historically , as an institution , one of the more sober voices when it comes to these efforts within various U.S. administrations to push for recognition of Moroccan sovereignty over Western Sahara .
We saw this in the W. Bush administration with Elliott Abrams seeking to get U.S. recognition , and the State Department poured cold water over it .
And recently the State Department has said that this isn ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Morocco recognizing Israel in exchange for U.S. recognition over its sovereignty over Western Sahara .
So , the bigger picture , though , is that , yes , Morocco is using arms purchases as a way of signaling its allegiance to U.S. interests in the region .
Not having had good relations with the Trump administration so far , having really bet on Clinton winning the elections in 2016 , Morocco has had to find other ways to try to communicate to the White House its interest in strengthening their partnership , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this was through massive arm purchases , that Morocco in 2019 eclipsed Egypt as the number one arms purchaser for U.S. weaponry .
And that ’ s their way of signaling to an administration that ’ s been quite aggressive in terms of pushing U.S. weapons abroad , and Morocco has tried to get on that train so as to improve relations with the Trump administration .
AMY GOODMAN : In 2019 , something like $ 1 billion the U.S. sold in missiles and other weaponry to Morocco .
What do you think @ @ @ @ @ @ @ now , Professor Mundy ?
What can the United Nations do ?
One of the leaders of the Sahrawi people , Aminatou Haidar , many of these activists are in Laayoune — they are essentially , virtually , under house arrest , being monitored nonstop — has appealed to the U.N. Security Council .
And significantly , South Africa is now on the Security Council , that has long been an ally of the Sahrawi people .
JACOB MUNDY : Well , it will take a major diplomatic initiative from the U.N .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ the empty promises of the Security Council and the U.N. Secretariat .
The previous personal envoy who led the negotiations between Morocco and Polisario left in 2019 and hasn ’ t been replaced in over a year and a half .
And that just shows you that the Security Council is willing to let this issue drift .
And it ’ s drifted back into open warfare .
So , it ’ s difficult to say what it will take to pull Polisario back .
The Sahrawis , especially those who lived in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ them in the refugee camps in Tindouf , are incredibly frustrated .
They ’ ve been frustrated for decades .
They almost returned to war in 2001 .
And hundreds of Sahrawis from the diaspora voluntarily returned to Algeria unprompted to join the fight .
So you can imagine , what , you know , 20 years later , how many Sahrawis are really willing to go to war .
And there ’ s really no reason for them to respect the words of the U.N. , because the U.N. has been on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and has done nothing to push forward with that .
AMY GOODMAN : And when you talk about Tindouf , Tindouf in Algeria , where so many Sahrawis are living in refugee camps for years , now it ’ s from these refugee camps that young men , hundreds of them , are leaving to go to this buffer zone to fight ?
JACOB MUNDY : Exactly .
There ’ s a large youth population in the refugee camps , especially young men .
There ’ s not a lot of economic activities @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is required .
And the reserves are being called up .
Polisario already has advance placements inside what they call the liberated territories , the about a fifth of Western Sahara that ’ s under their control .
And they ’ ve already mobilized attacks against Moroccan positions along the separation wall inside Western Sahara .
More troops are heading to the area to reinforce them and to continue the fight .
Morocco is pretending like nothing ’ s happening in its media — not surprising .
They fairly were caught very unprepared @ @ @ @ @ @ @ by Polisario forces .
AMY GOODMAN : I wanted to go back , to give a little more history to what is happening here , to Democracy Now !
's documentary , _Four Days in Western Sahara : Africa 's Last Colony_ .
While we were in Western Sahara in 2016 , Moroccan authorities violently broke up an independence protest led by Sahrawi women .
This was not unusual .
We traveled to meet with the women shortly after the protest ended .
AMY GOODMAN : So , that ’ s an excerpt @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and we ’ re going to post the whole thing at democracynow.org , Four Days in Western Sahara : Africa ’ s Last Colony .
Professor Jacob Mundy , as we wrap up here , if you can talk — I mean , the women we talked to — for example , Mina Bali , who had just been beaten very badly — Aminatou Haidar was not there , but Mina and Aminatou , they are under house siege right now in Laayoune .
Elghalia Djimi ran the Human Rights Center .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ by Moroccan police 10 years before , and she was being beaten once again .
Where do you see this resistance going at this time ?
And could you see this becoming an outright major confrontation ?
And what chance does the Polisario have when it comes to military competition as opposed to solving this diplomatically ?
JACOB MUNDY : Yeah , those are good questions .
The concern is , and we ’ re seeing evidence , that Morocco is using this new context as a pretext to crack down on Sahrawi @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at the 10-year anniversary of the events that — in the documentary , you noted that Noam Chomsky called the protest at Gdeim Izik the first uprising of the Arab uprisings of 2011 .
We ’ re also at the anniversary of the accords whereby Madrid agreed to hand over Western Sahara to Mauritania and Morocco in 1975 .
So it ’ s a very strange situation we ’ re in right now with these anniversaries .
And the significance is that Sahrawi civil society has been under incredible pressure by Morocco since @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and we haven ’ t seen anything significant in terms of popular manifestations .
So , the blockade at Guerguerat was one of the most significant acts of civil disobedience we ’ ve seen from Sahrawis in about a decade .
And it was significant enough to trigger a Moroccan military incursion , that in turn triggered a Polisario response that has now led to war .
Now , Polisario , it will be very difficult for them to regain territory inside the occupied Western Sahara , but they can do significant damage @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , where most of Morocco ’ s thousands , tens of thousands of troops are positioned .
And so , what we ’ ll see is whether or not this turns into a war of attrition or if it ’ s just kind of a tit-for-tat exchange and then , hopefully , cooler heads from the U.N. will come in and make the usual promises .
And hopefully , out of this , we can get something more meaningful in terms of a peace process and something that can actually lead to self-determination @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Mundy , I want to thank you for being with us , associate professor of peace and conflict studies and Middle Eastern and Islamic studies at Colgate University , co-author of the book called Western Sahara : War , Nationalism , and Conflict Irresolution .
When we come back , 44 years .
That ’ s how long an African American man in North Carolina was held for a crime he did not commit .
He recently got out of jail and voted for the first time .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
A nearly three-decade-old ceasefire has ended in occupied Western Sahara. Morocco has occupied the territory since 1975 in defiance of the United Nations and the international community. Western Sahara is widely considered to be Africa’s last colony. Over the weekend, fighting broke out in several areas between the Moroccan military and the Polisario Front, the Sahrawi liberation movement seeking independence. Meanwhile, Morocco has intensified its repression in occupied Western Sahara, raiding the homes of independence activists, cracking down on protests. Moroccan military drones were reportedly spotted in the city of Dakhla.
The ceasefire ended Friday after the Moroccan military broke into a no-go buffer zone in southern Western Sahara and exchanged fire with the Polisario Front. For the past three weeks, Sahrawi civilian protesters had blocked a Morocco-built road in the area that Sahrawis consider to be illegal. The peaceful blockade backed up traffic for miles and cut off trade between Morocco and Mauritania to the south. The Moroccan military entered the buffer zone on Friday morning to disperse the civilians, who were evacuated to safety by the Polisario Front. Morocco took military action just hours after U.S. Major General Andrew Rohling met in Morocco with the commander of the Royal Moroccan Armed Forces Southern Zone, which includes occupied Western Sahara. At the United Nations, a spokesperson for U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres warned against further violations of the ceasefire.
STÉPHANE DUJARRIC: The secretary-general remains committed to doing his utmost to avoid the collapse of the ceasefire that has been in place since 6 September, 1991. And he is determined to do everything possible to remove all obstacles to the resumption of the political process.
AMY GOODMAN: The Polisario Front says hundreds of Sahrawi volunteers have signed up and left for the front over the weekend from Sahrawi refugee camps in Algeria. Sidi Omar, the Polisario Front’s representative to the United Nations, said, quote, “For us, it is an open war,” unquote. In the streets of Laayoune, the largest city in Western Sahara, Sahrawi protesters took to the streets in a nighttime demonstration for independence.
PROTESTERS: [chanting]
AMY GOODMAN: Sahrawis also demonstrated over the weekend in other cities, including occupied Dakhla.
PROTESTERS: [chanting]
AMY GOODMAN: Protests in solidarity with Sahrawi independence also occurred over the weekend in Spain and in New Zealand, where activists with Extinction Rebellion and other groups protested at a fertilizer company which buys phosphate from occupied Western Sahara.
In a moment, we’ll speak to professor Jacob Mundy at Colgate University about the end of the ceasefire, but first let’s take a look at the roots of the crisis. In 2016, Democracy Now! broke the media blockade imposed by Morocco and reported from inside occupied Western Sahara. We were the first international news team to report from the occupied territory in years. This is an excerpt from our documentary, Four Days in Western Sahara: Africa’s Last Colony.
AMY GOODMAN: Western Sahara, where peaceful protesters, led by women, are beaten in the streets. Thousands have been tortured, imprisoned, killed and disappeared while resisting the Moroccan occupation. SULTANA KHAYA: [translated] He jabbed right at my eye with his baton. I was yelling at him, “Hey, you Moroccan! You pulled out my eye!”
AMY GOODMAN: Where natural resources are plundered, from phosphates to fish. HMAD HAMMAD: [translated] I say that our damnation comes from the natural resources we have here. If it wasn’t for these natural resources, Morocco never would have invaded Western Sahara.
AMY GOODMAN: Where a massive wall divides a people, the Sahrawi, the native population, denied a vote for self-determination. ELGHALIA DJIMI: [translated] If we don’t speak out, especially us, as victims who have suffered all of this, if we don’t speak out and defend our cause, this problem will remain.
AMY GOODMAN: Western Sahara — the center of a four-decades-long struggle for independence from Morocco, its neighbor to the north. Morocco has occupied the territory since 1975 in defiance of the United Nations and the international community.
The story of Western Sahara is one of colonialism, plunder and resistance. It’s also a story rarely told in the international media.
And it’s here in Western Sahara where the scholar Noam Chomsky says the Arab Spring first began in late 2010, before the uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt. NOAM CHOMSKY: The Moroccan forces came in, destroyed tent cities, a lot of killed and wounded and so on. And then it spread.
AMY GOODMAN: But the struggle in Western Sahara dates back much longer. For nearly a century, Western Sahara was colonized by Spain. But the Spanish occupation ended in 1975, setting off a regional fight. On October 31st, 1975, both Morocco from the north and Mauritania from the south invaded Western Sahara as Spain withdrew.
Days after Moroccan troops invaded, King Hassan II ordered hundreds of thousands of Moroccan citizens to enter Western Sahara in what became known as the Green March. Mauritania would withdraw less than four years later, but Morocco has remained to this day.
Just days after the Moroccan invasion, Secretary of State Henry Kissinger privately told President Gerald Ford he hoped for a, quote, “rigged UN vote” at the Security Council to confirm Morocco’s claim over Western Sahara.
About half of the Sahrawi population fled the invasion to neighboring Algeria, where they settled in refugee camps in the middle of the desert. The Moroccan invasion set off a 16-year-long war with the Sahrawi liberation movement known as the Polisario Front. Morocco’s army, with the help of U.S. military aid, drove the Polisario to Western Sahara’s Eastern Desert. Morocco then created the world’s longest minefield and built the second-longest wall on Earth, with the help of U.S. weapons companies Northrop and Westinghouse.
The nearly 1,700-mile wall divides Sahrawis who remain under occupation from those who fled into exile.
The Moroccan government began decades of torture, disappearances, killings and repression against pro-independence Sahrawis living in the occupied territory.
In 1991, the U.N. sponsored a ceasefire and promised Sahrawis a referendum on self-determination, organized by its peacekeeping mission known as MINURSO. Since then, Morocco has blocked attempts to organize the vote, and the U.N. Security Council has refused to implement its own referendum plan or allow MINURSO to monitor the human rights situation in the territory.
Today, no country recognizes Moroccan sovereignty over Western Sahara, one of the most inaccessible places in the world. And the international media has largely ignored the occupation, in part because Morocco has routinely blocked journalists from entering Western Sahara.
But in late 2016, Democracy Now! successfully broke the news blockade. We were in Marrakech, Morocco, for the United Nations Climate Change Conference. With U.N. credentials and U.S. passports, we decided to take a chance and attempt to do what no foreign television crew has done in years: report from Africa’s last colony.
AMY GOODMAN: An excerpt from Democracy Now!'s documentary, _Four Days in Western Sahara: Africa's Last Colony_. Special thanks to Mike Burke, John Hamilton, Denis Moynihan and Laura Gottesdiener. You can watch the full documentary at democracynow.org.
On Friday, a nearly three-decade-old ceasefire has ended in occupied Western Sahara after Morocco launched a military operation.
We’re now joined by Jacob Mundy, associate professor of peace and conflict studies and Middle Eastern and Islamic studies at Colgate University. He co-authored the book Western Sahara: War, Nationalism, and Conflict Irresolution.
Professor Mundy, it’s great to have you on Democracy Now! We just went deep dive into the history of what’s happening in Western Sahara, Africa’s last colony, because so few people understand what’s happening there. But this critical moment that took place last week when Morocco violated the no buffer zone, explain the significance of breaking this 29-year ceasefire.
JACOB MUNDY: Yeah, we haven’t seen fighting like this in Western Sahara since 1991. There have been periods where, due to increasing tensions and the lack of progress toward self-determination, we’ve seen tensions on the rise, but to have open warfare like this is very significant.
The civilians that were blockading the road, being really the only paved road that connects West Africa to Europe, was a significant tactical victory by Polisario, and clearly it aggravated Morocco enough that they launched a military incursion. And Morocco has said explicitly that this was a military operation. So, what we have is Moroccan forces crossing into a restricted area that’s technically under Polisario sovereignty, so this is a clear violation of the ceasefire. And we’ve heard nothing from the Security Council.
AMY GOODMAN: So, explain what the stakes are right now. And also, what do you understand is U.S. involvement? We saw this tweet from Saharawi Voice: “On the same day the Moroccan army launched its operation in Guerguerat yesterday, US Army Maj. Gen. Andrew Rohling was meeting with Moroccan Gen. Belkhir El Farouk, who’s in charge of the Moroccan army’s operations in Western Sahara.”
JACOB MUNDY: Well, the significance is that if this spirals out of control, you could see a very, very significant war between Morocco and Polisario forces. Were Morocco to chase Polisario forces all the way into Algeria, then you could see a third party enter, which is Algeria, which is also on high alert right now and very, very concerned about this in terms of what it does for security across the Sahara region, which we’ve seen in recent years has been a zone that’s seen a lot of conflict and terrorism and unfortunate things like that.
The connections between the Moroccan military and the U.S. military have grown in recent years, largely due to Morocco’s cooperation with the construction of AFRICOM as the U.S. military command in Africa. Morocco hosts one of the largest training exercises organized by AFRICOM. It’s called the African Lion annual exercise, where countries from all over Africa participate. And it’s usually held — provocatively, I think — in southern Morocco not too far from Western Sahara. So, it certainly is not good optics that Morocco chose to launch this military incursion in violation of the U.N. ceasefire on the same day that military commanders were in Morocco preparing for their annual African Lion exercise.
AMY GOODMAN: And can you talk about what happened when the United States was pushing for Arab nations to recognize Israel — you know, UAE, among others, Jared Kushner making a massive weapons deal with UAE? And then we heard that Morocco would be one of the countries that would do this, as well. Now, in 2019, in the Trump administration, major weapons sales to Morocco, and then we heard that perhaps Morocco would also recognize Israel, perhaps in exchange for U.S. recognizing de facto Morocco’s occupation, de facto occupation of, annexation of Western Sahara.
JACOB MUNDY: Yeah, we’ve heard this reported in several locations. It hasn’t happened yet, thankfully. The State Department has actually, in some ways, been, historically, as an institution, one of the more sober voices when it comes to these efforts within various U.S. administrations to push for recognition of Moroccan sovereignty over Western Sahara. We saw this in the W. Bush administration with Elliott Abrams seeking to get U.S. recognition, and the State Department poured cold water over it. And recently the State Department has said that this isn’t on the table, in terms of Morocco recognizing Israel in exchange for U.S. recognition over its sovereignty over Western Sahara.
So, the bigger picture, though, is that, yes, Morocco is using arms purchases as a way of signaling its allegiance to U.S. interests in the region. Not having had good relations with the Trump administration so far, having really bet on Clinton winning the elections in 2016, Morocco has had to find other ways to try to communicate to the White House its interest in strengthening their partnership, and so one of the ways they did this was through massive arm purchases, that Morocco in 2019 eclipsed Egypt as the number one arms purchaser for U.S. weaponry. And that’s their way of signaling to an administration that’s been quite aggressive in terms of pushing U.S. weapons abroad, and Morocco has tried to get on that train so as to improve relations with the Trump administration.
AMY GOODMAN: In 2019, something like $1 billion the U.S. sold in missiles and other weaponry to Morocco. What do you think it will take for another ceasefire right now, Professor Mundy? What can the United Nations do? One of the leaders of the Sahrawi people, Aminatou Haidar, many of these activists are in Laayoune — they are essentially, virtually, under house arrest, being monitored nonstop — has appealed to the U.N. Security Council. And significantly, South Africa is now on the Security Council, that has long been an ally of the Sahrawi people.
JACOB MUNDY: Well, it will take a major diplomatic initiative from the U.N. The Sahrawis are generally very tired of the empty promises of the Security Council and the U.N. Secretariat. The previous personal envoy who led the negotiations between Morocco and Polisario left in 2019 and hasn’t been replaced in over a year and a half. And that just shows you that the Security Council is willing to let this issue drift. And it’s drifted back into open warfare.
So, it’s difficult to say what it will take to pull Polisario back. The Sahrawis, especially those who lived in exile since 1975, about 180,000 of them in the refugee camps in Tindouf, are incredibly frustrated. They’ve been frustrated for decades. They almost returned to war in 2001. And hundreds of Sahrawis from the diaspora voluntarily returned to Algeria unprompted to join the fight. So you can imagine, what, you know, 20 years later, how many Sahrawis are really willing to go to war. And there’s really no reason for them to respect the words of the U.N., because the U.N. has been on the ground since 1991 promising a referendum and has done nothing to push forward with that.
AMY GOODMAN: And when you talk about Tindouf, Tindouf in Algeria, where so many Sahrawis are living in refugee camps for years, now it’s from these refugee camps that young men, hundreds of them, are leaving to go to this buffer zone to fight?
JACOB MUNDY: Exactly. There’s a large youth population in the refugee camps, especially young men. There’s not a lot of economic activities, opportunities for them. Military service is required. And the reserves are being called up. Polisario already has advance placements inside what they call the liberated territories, the about a fifth of Western Sahara that’s under their control. And they’ve already mobilized attacks against Moroccan positions along the separation wall inside Western Sahara. More troops are heading to the area to reinforce them and to continue the fight. Morocco is pretending like nothing’s happening in its media — not surprising. They fairly were caught very unprepared, and some positions were easily overrun by Polisario forces.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go back, to give a little more history to what is happening here, to Democracy Now!'s documentary, _Four Days in Western Sahara: Africa's Last Colony_. While we were in Western Sahara in 2016, Moroccan authorities violently broke up an independence protest led by Sahrawi women. This was not unusual. We traveled to meet with the women shortly after the protest ended.
AMY GOODMAN: Inside, we find a number of women tending to an activist named Aziza Biza, who’s retching and vomiting from her injuries. AMY GOODMAN: Should she go to a hospital? JAMAL: She said she can’t go to a hospital, because they will not admit her, and she’s also too scared to go there.
AMY GOODMAN: The activists have recorded video of their protest — and the subsequent beatings by Moroccan forces — on cellphones and camcorders.
What our cameras couldn’t capture, citizen journalists’ could.
We begin downloading their footage, as activist Mina Bali describes what happened. MINA BALI: [translated] Because of your presence here, we wanted to have a protest and show you how things are here — and how we are treated. It’s been about two years since any journalists have accessed the territory. We came chanting slogans, making peace signs with our fingers, as usual. And then they intervened against us in the street. They were a large group. They pushed us into a narrow street. They took me. One of them grabbed my hair, and he started beating me. He wounded me here, under my nose. He grabbed my breast and continued beating me against the wall. Aziza was with me, and he struck her in the kidney and hit her head against the wall. And then she fell on the ground at my feet. And Ghalia Yimani was being dragged there. And Sultana Khaya. AMY GOODMAN: I’m going to go with the women to see their bruises. They’re going to show me. And then we’ll see what we can show the camera.
AMY GOODMAN: We follow Sultana Khaya into a small bedroom. She pulls back her melhfa — her traditional Sahrawi robe — and shows me fresh bruises on her leg, both arms and on her breast. AMY GOODMAN: Sultana, describe what happened to you? SULTANA KHAYA: [translated] All of us were participating as Sahrawis in the peaceful demonstrations for our right to self-determination. I was trying to gather my sisters for the protest at 5:00. And the whole area was besieged. They were insulting us, beating us, dragging us and using violence, to let us know that we weren’t going to be able to protest. They tried to single us out, and pushed us into narrow streets where they could beat us without anyone observing. What you saw today is nothing compared to what we’ve witnessed, over and over, since 1975. But the news never gets out. As Sahrawi women, we’re not backing off until we get our final victory and liberate our homeland. The beatings will not deter us from continuing the fight. And even if we die, it will be a sacrifice, so that our sons and future generations can live in the freedom that we’ve been denied.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s an excerpt from from our Democracy Now! documentary, and we’re going to post the whole thing at democracynow.org, Four Days in Western Sahara: Africa’s Last Colony. Professor Jacob Mundy, as we wrap up here, if you can talk — I mean, the women we talked to — for example, Mina Bali, who had just been beaten very badly — Aminatou Haidar was not there, but Mina and Aminatou, they are under house siege right now in Laayoune. Elghalia Djimi ran the Human Rights Center. Sultana Khaya had her eye poked out by Moroccan police 10 years before, and she was being beaten once again. Where do you see this resistance going at this time? And could you see this becoming an outright major confrontation? And what chance does the Polisario have when it comes to military competition as opposed to solving this diplomatically?
JACOB MUNDY: Yeah, those are good questions. The concern is, and we’re seeing evidence, that Morocco is using this new context as a pretext to crack down on Sahrawi civil society. We’re actually at the 10-year anniversary of the events that — in the documentary, you noted that Noam Chomsky called the protest at Gdeim Izik the first uprising of the Arab uprisings of 2011. We’re also at the anniversary of the accords whereby Madrid agreed to hand over Western Sahara to Mauritania and Morocco in 1975. So it’s a very strange situation we’re in right now with these anniversaries.
And the significance is that Sahrawi civil society has been under incredible pressure by Morocco since 2010, since the uprising then, and we haven’t seen anything significant in terms of popular manifestations. So, the blockade at Guerguerat was one of the most significant acts of civil disobedience we’ve seen from Sahrawis in about a decade. And it was significant enough to trigger a Moroccan military incursion, that in turn triggered a Polisario response that has now led to war.
Now, Polisario, it will be very difficult for them to regain territory inside the occupied Western Sahara, but they can do significant damage to Moroccan forces along the defensive barrier, where most of Morocco’s thousands, tens of thousands of troops are positioned. And so, what we’ll see is whether or not this turns into a war of attrition or if it’s just kind of a tit-for-tat exchange and then, hopefully, cooler heads from the U.N. will come in and make the usual promises. And hopefully, out of this, we can get something more meaningful in terms of a peace process and something that can actually lead to self-determination.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Jacob Mundy, I want to thank you for being with us, associate professor of peace and conflict studies and Middle Eastern and Islamic studies at Colgate University, co-author of the book called Western Sahara: War, Nationalism, and Conflict Irresolution.
When we come back, 44 years. That’s how long an African American man in North Carolina was held for a crime he did not commit. He recently got out of jail and voted for the first time. Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-11-16--Headlines for November 16, 2020

Headlines for November 16, 2020

Over one week after all major networks projected Joe Biden won the presidential election , his team remains shut out of key funding and access normally granted to incoming administrations .
On Friday , the two remaining states to project a winner were called , with North Carolina going to Trump and Biden taking the win in Georgia , although that race is now undergoing a hand recount .
Biden has won 306 electoral votes to Trump ’ s 232 , and Biden has amassed over 5.5 million more votes in the popular count .
In 2016 , when Trump @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , he declared his victory a landslide .
But he has yet to concede the race , delaying the transition for Biden ’ s team and further inflaming Trump ’ s base of supporters who believe his lies that the election was rigged against him .
A Sunday morning tweet by Trump appeared to show he acknowledged Biden ’ s win , by saying , “ He won because the Election was Rigged , ” though Trump quickly walked it back by tweeting less than two hours later , “ I concede NOTHING @ @ @ @ @ @ @ challenges to alter the outcome of the election continue to falter .
On Friday , a judge declined to block the certification of election results in Detroit , Michigan , and Pennsylvania ’ s Secretary of State said she will not order a recount of votes since Biden ’ s lead is too wide .
On Sunday , the Trump campaign scrapped major parts of its case in Pennsylvania .
Several law firms representing the Trump campaign have either withdrawn from lawsuits or said they would not get involved in additional litigation .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ Senate hangs on the two runoffs in Georgia in January , Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is pushing to pack the courts with more right-wing judges before Trump leaves office : 12 judicial nominations are currently awaiting a Senate vote , and 23 are awaiting committee hearings .

Over one week after all major networks projected Joe Biden won the presidential election, his team remains shut out of key funding and access normally granted to incoming administrations. On Friday, the two remaining states to project a winner were called, with North Carolina going to Trump and Biden taking the win in Georgia, although that race is now undergoing a hand recount. Biden has won 306 electoral votes to Trump’s 232, and Biden has amassed over 5.5 million more votes in the popular count. In 2016, when Trump won the election with 306 electoral votes, he declared his victory a landslide. But he has yet to concede the race, delaying the transition for Biden’s team and further inflaming Trump’s base of supporters who believe his lies that the election was rigged against him. A Sunday morning tweet by Trump appeared to show he acknowledged Biden’s win, by saying, “He won because the Election was Rigged,” though Trump quickly walked it back by tweeting less than two hours later, “I concede NOTHING!”
Trump’s many legal challenges to alter the outcome of the election continue to falter. On Friday, a judge declined to block the certification of election results in Detroit, Michigan, and Pennsylvania’s Secretary of State said she will not order a recount of votes since Biden’s lead is too wide. On Sunday, the Trump campaign scrapped major parts of its case in Pennsylvania. Several law firms representing the Trump campaign have either withdrawn from lawsuits or said they would not get involved in additional litigation.
Meanwhile, as the fate of the Senate hangs on the two runoffs in Georgia in January, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is pushing to pack the courts with more right-wing judges before Trump leaves office: 12 judicial nominations are currently awaiting a Senate vote, and 23 are awaiting committee hearings.


democracynow--2020-11-12--South African Activist Kumi Naidoo: Trump Is Attempting a Coup to Install Minority Rule

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Nermeen Shaikh .
This is The Quarantine Report .
As we continue to look at the world ’ s response to the U.S. election and President Donald Trump ’ s loss to Joe Biden , we continue in the Global South .
We go to Africa .
South Africa ’ s Nelson Mandela Foundation called the defeat of Trump a “ relief , ” saying , quote , “ Now @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of undoing the Trump administration ’ s deepening of racism , xenophobia , Afrophobia , ” unquote .
President Trump never visited a single country on the African continent during his time in office .
He infamously praised the healthcare system of “ Nambia ” — mispronouncing Namibia — during a speech at the United Nations .
AMY GOODMAN : President Trump also sparked outrage when he referred to Haiti and African nations as “ s—hole countries ” — but he used the full word .
President-elect Biden has said he will halt @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Organization and rejoin the Paris Climate Agreement .
Africa is likely to be the continent hit hardest by the climate crisis .
For more , we go to Durban , South Africa , to speak with Kumi Naidoo , the global ambassador for Africans Rising for Justice , Peace and Dignity , a lifelong South African human rights and climate justice activist , former secretary general of Amnesty International and also former head of Greenpeace .
Kumi , welcome back to Democracy Now !
It ’ s great to have you with us @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and your own response to the defeat of Donald Trump , whether he accepts it or not , and what he has meant for the continent ?
KUMI NAIDOO : The sentiment expressed with the Nelson Mandela Foundation will be shared by the overwhelming majority of citizens across the African continent .
I would say that while many on the continent are relieved that President-elect Joe Biden has won , we are concerned that still so many American citizens chose to vote for somebody who ’ s clearly racist , sexist , xenophobe @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I think , as others have said , it ’ s a relief .
And now we find ourselves in a really unique situation , because I think our brothers and sisters in America are finding out that it ’ s much easier for them to change presidents in other countries than to change the president in their own country .
But this moment is one where we also have to recognize how much of time we have lost in the last four years as a result on climate , on inequality , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as a result of the Trump administration .
So , this is a relief , but it is not something for us to — at this stage , anyway — celebrate with any great enthusiasm .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Well , Kumi , as you mentioned , Trump has not only refused to concede defeat , he has also , in the last week , instituted a massive reshuffle in parts of the security establishment , most notably firing the secretary of defense , Mark Esper .
The New York Times has reported @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the CIA Director Gina Haspel might be the next to go .
And there have been remarks , in all kinds of quarters , about the fact that if this were happening in any other country in the world , there would be outrage , and people would say that it is Trump attempting a coup d ’ état .
Could you respond to that ?
KUMI NAIDOO : Well , firstly , it ’ s clear that Trump is attempting a coup d ’ état .
He ’ s trying to do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ deceit .
And it ’ s shocking that the Republican Party establishment is standing by .
But let ’ s be very clear that this doesn ’ t come as a shock to us , because the United States administration , against the wishes of their own people , often have a foreign policy and approach to these things as “ Do as we tell you to do ; do not do as we do , ” because — I mean , let me give you another example .
Imagine a country in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s go back to the governor ’ s race , where the candidate for governor is also the person responsible for running the elections , as you have in many states in the U.S. where these are political party appointments .
That would be completely unacceptable , right ?
That needs to change in the United States .
Secondly , the fact that you have an electoral system that will have 7 million more people voting for one candidate than the other , but technically that the minority candidate wins .
So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at it , coming from South Africa , you almost have the potential , very easily , for minority rule in the U.S. And I think the Electoral College , for example , is not understood not only by people around the world , it ’ s not really understood by the United dates .
What was a device put in place centuries ago clearly is inappropriate .
And those are the kinds of changes — the absolute hypocrisy that we are seeing .
And yeah , we have to be fair .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ of these inconsistencies were not [ inaudible ] Republican administrations .
These inconsistencies , we ’ ve seen by both Republican and Democratic establishment administrations over a long time .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : And , Kumi , can we talk now a little about what Africa ’ s response — how Africa — many countries in Africa have responded much better than the rest of the world , and certainly than the U.S. , to the pandemic , and the fact that Trump , of course , has not — the U.S. has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Vaccines Global Access Facility , which would work towards making the vaccine accessible to countries all across the world ?
Biden has , of course , said he will join the World Health Organization , not pull out .
So , could you talk about that ?
First of all , what is the situation of the coronavirus in South Africa , but also more broadly , and how well the countries in Africa have dealt with the pandemic ?
And then the question of vaccine access .
KUMI NAIDOO : Thank you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ permitted a comment on coronavirus in the United States and how it ’ s been handled , I think , first , we should say , as Africans , we are horrified at the lack of respect for human life , the fact that the biggest superspreader of this virus has been the president of the United States by irresponsibly holding rallies that violated the CDC guidelines left , right and center .
And given the resources that the United States has , it should have been doing significantly better , with appropriate @ @ @ @ @ @ @ doing in Africa .
So , let me tell you , yesterday in South Africa , President Ramaphosa went on television to warn our country and our people that we are still in serious times , the pandemic is still serious , we need to address it , and so on .
And guess what our situation is in South Africa .
We have a daily infection rate of 2,000 people per day , and we have a death rate of less than 50 a day , and declining .
The hospitalizations and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , our president goes on television and says we need to be vigilant , we need to wear masks , we need to social distance , we need to continue to treat this as a real threat .
I think if ever people wanted to get a sense about who President Trump — what he really cares about , it ’ s all really about himself .
How the American people can not see it sometimes is shocking to us , because , clearly , the way he has treated the coronavirus is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I would argue , if I was a citizen of the United States , I would be pushing for President Trump to have been impeached as a result of the response to the coronavirus .
It ’ s close to a crime against humanity .
But when we look at it in Africa , let me just say , we are anxious — right ?
— because we are dependent , in many parts of the continent , on tourism , on trade , and so on , for people ’ s livelihoods @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and Europe doesn ’ t get its act together and doesn ’ t get this pandemic under control , it means that normal economic activity will never be able to take place — for example , tourism and so on , which has huge impacts on many African economies .
So , we are concerned .
Let me just say one thing , though .
It ’ s very interesting , to pick up on your report here where you say Bolsonaro in Brazil , second-worst country after the United States .
U.K. @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of Donald Trump — is the worst country in Europe per capita .
Modi is doing terribly in India , and so on .
And it ’ s very interesting to see a lot of these leaders who are authoritarian , fascist-like , and so on , are the ones that are showing that they will respond with the least care of their own citizens .
And I think it is important for us to note that women are suffering disproportionately as a result of this virus , because of the nature of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , but it ’ s also important to note that the countries that have done best in responding to the coronavirus , most of them are all led by women .
And I think there is a lesson in that about how important it is for us to have much more equity in terms of gender in our leadership in all levels , in all countries , in all institutions .
AMY GOODMAN : Finally , Kumi — and , of course , we ’ re going to come back to you on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on issues of Biden saying he will immediately rejoin the U.N. climate summit , but I just want to ask : Why does who is president of the United States matter so much to the rest of the world ?
KUMI NAIDOO : Well , if I might say that Julius Nyerere , the Tanzanian president that led us to liberation in Tanzania , once said , when we look at the United States , it ’ s weird to look at this country , because we have , seemingly , two parties @ @ @ @ @ @ @ big business and big capital .
And he actually went on to say , “ The United States is a one-party state , but with typical American extravagance , they have two of them.
” Now , in the current moment , we have been watching carefully — right ?
— because it ’ s easy for us to be triumphalistic and euphoric about President-elect Joe Biden because the incumbent is such a disastrous reality , but we will be vigilant , from our perspective , in recognizing that hopefully President Biden is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we would give fair notice that we will not — we will not be making an assumption that everything is going to get better .
We expect things will improve , but it can not but improve from the low bar that Donald Trump set .
It ’ s not a question of now whether things just improve .
The United States has an obligation to the world to ensure that the four years we ’ ve lost under Trump , and many , many more years that we lost on climate action @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to do .
And we expect the next president of the United States to recognize that the United States has let the world down , has dragged their feet and has put the entire world , including the United States , at risk from climate , and therefore we would expect from this new administration not simply an improvement and not simply rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic while humanity sinks , but serious structural and systemic change that addresses the challenge of climate change .
AMY GOODMAN : Kumi Naidoo , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with us , global ambassador for Africans Rising for Justice , Peace and Dignity , lifelong South African human rights activist and climate justice activist .
When we come back , we go to Istanbul , Turkey , and then to the U.K. , for response to this historic U.S. election .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh. This is The Quarantine Report.
As we continue to look at the world’s response to the U.S. election and President Donald Trump’s loss to Joe Biden, we continue in the Global South. We go to Africa. South Africa’s Nelson Mandela Foundation called the defeat of Trump a “relief,” saying, quote, “Now begins the daunting task for the US of undoing the Trump administration’s deepening of racism, xenophobia, Afrophobia,” unquote.
President Trump never visited a single country on the African continent during his time in office. He infamously praised the healthcare system of “Nambia” — mispronouncing Namibia — during a speech at the United Nations.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Uganda has made incredible strides in the battle against HIV/AIDS. In Guinea and Nigeria, you fought a horrifying Ebola outbreak. Nambia’s health system is increasingly self-sufficient.
AMY GOODMAN: President Trump also sparked outrage when he referred to Haiti and African nations as “s—hole countries” — but he used the full word.
President-elect Biden has said he will halt the U.S. withdrawal from the World Health Organization and rejoin the Paris Climate Agreement. Africa is likely to be the continent hit hardest by the climate crisis.
For more, we go to Durban, South Africa, to speak with Kumi Naidoo, the global ambassador for Africans Rising for Justice, Peace and Dignity, a lifelong South African human rights and climate justice activist, former secretary general of Amnesty International and also former head of Greenpeace.
Kumi, welcome back to Democracy Now! It’s great to have you with us. Can you talk about South Africa and your own response to the defeat of Donald Trump, whether he accepts it or not, and what he has meant for the continent?
KUMI NAIDOO: The sentiment expressed with the Nelson Mandela Foundation will be shared by the overwhelming majority of citizens across the African continent. I would say that while many on the continent are relieved that President-elect Joe Biden has won, we are concerned that still so many American citizens chose to vote for somebody who’s clearly racist, sexist, xenophobe, Islamophobe and so on. But I think, as others have said, it’s a relief.
And now we find ourselves in a really unique situation, because I think our brothers and sisters in America are finding out that it’s much easier for them to change presidents in other countries than to change the president in their own country.
But this moment is one where we also have to recognize how much of time we have lost in the last four years as a result on climate, on inequality, on poverty alleviation and so on, as a result of the Trump administration. So, this is a relief, but it is not something for us to — at this stage, anyway — celebrate with any great enthusiasm.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Kumi, as you mentioned, Trump has not only refused to concede defeat, he has also, in the last week, instituted a massive reshuffle in parts of the security establishment, most notably firing the secretary of defense, Mark Esper. The New York Times has reported that some administration officials have said that the CIA Director Gina Haspel might be the next to go. And there have been remarks, in all kinds of quarters, about the fact that if this were happening in any other country in the world, there would be outrage, and people would say that it is Trump attempting a coup d’état. Could you respond to that?
KUMI NAIDOO: Well, firstly, it’s clear that Trump is attempting a coup d’état. He’s trying to do it through courts and malicious lies and deceit. And it’s shocking that the Republican Party establishment is standing by.
But let’s be very clear that this doesn’t come as a shock to us, because the United States administration, against the wishes of their own people, often have a foreign policy and approach to these things as “Do as we tell you to do; do not do as we do,” because — I mean, let me give you another example. Imagine a country in Africa, like in Georgia — let’s go back to the governor’s race, where the candidate for governor is also the person responsible for running the elections, as you have in many states in the U.S. where these are political party appointments. That would be completely unacceptable, right? That needs to change in the United States.
Secondly, the fact that you have an electoral system that will have 7 million more people voting for one candidate than the other, but technically that the minority candidate wins. So, essentially, the way I look at it, coming from South Africa, you almost have the potential, very easily, for minority rule in the U.S. And I think the Electoral College, for example, is not understood not only by people around the world, it’s not really understood by the United dates. What was a device put in place centuries ago clearly is inappropriate. And those are the kinds of changes — the absolute hypocrisy that we are seeing. And yeah, we have to be fair. We have to be fair that some of these inconsistencies were not [inaudible] Republican administrations. These inconsistencies, we’ve seen by both Republican and Democratic establishment administrations over a long time.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Kumi, can we talk now a little about what Africa’s response — how Africa — many countries in Africa have responded much better than the rest of the world, and certainly than the U.S., to the pandemic, and the fact that Trump, of course, has not — the U.S. has not yet joined COVAX, the COVID-19 Vaccines Global Access Facility, which would work towards making the vaccine accessible to countries all across the world? Biden has, of course, said he will join the World Health Organization, not pull out. So, could you talk about that? First of all, what is the situation of the coronavirus in South Africa, but also more broadly, and how well the countries in Africa have dealt with the pandemic? And then the question of vaccine access.
KUMI NAIDOO: Thank you, Nermeen. If I might be permitted a comment on coronavirus in the United States and how it’s been handled, I think, first, we should say, as Africans, we are horrified at the lack of respect for human life, the fact that the biggest superspreader of this virus has been the president of the United States by irresponsibly holding rallies that violated the CDC guidelines left, right and center. And given the resources that the United States has, it should have been doing significantly better, with appropriate political leadership, than we have been doing in Africa.
So, let me tell you, yesterday in South Africa, President Ramaphosa went on television to warn our country and our people that we are still in serious times, the pandemic is still serious, we need to address it, and so on. And guess what our situation is in South Africa. We have a daily infection rate of 2,000 people per day, and we have a death rate of less than 50 a day, and declining. The hospitalizations and death rates are declining. But yet, our president goes on television and says we need to be vigilant, we need to wear masks, we need to social distance, we need to continue to treat this as a real threat.
I think if ever people wanted to get a sense about who President Trump — what he really cares about, it’s all really about himself. How the American people cannot see it sometimes is shocking to us, because, clearly, the way he has treated the coronavirus is close to criminal. In fact, I would argue, if I was a citizen of the United States, I would be pushing for President Trump to have been impeached as a result of the response to the coronavirus. It’s close to a crime against humanity.
But when we look at it in Africa, let me just say, we are anxious — right? — because we are dependent, in many parts of the continent, on tourism, on trade, and so on, for people’s livelihoods. And so long as the U.S. and Europe doesn’t get its act together and doesn’t get this pandemic under control, it means that normal economic activity will never be able to take place — for example, tourism and so on, which has huge impacts on many African economies. So, we are concerned.
Let me just say one thing, though. It’s very interesting, to pick up on your report here where you say Bolsonaro in Brazil, second-worst country after the United States. U.K. — Boris Johnson, another close buddy of Donald Trump — is the worst country in Europe per capita. Modi is doing terribly in India, and so on. And it’s very interesting to see a lot of these leaders who are authoritarian, fascist-like, and so on, are the ones that are showing that they will respond with the least care of their own citizens.
And I think it is important for us to note that women are suffering disproportionately as a result of this virus, because of the nature of the work, nurses and so on, but it’s also important to note that the countries that have done best in responding to the coronavirus, most of them are all led by women. And I think there is a lesson in that about how important it is for us to have much more equity in terms of gender in our leadership in all levels, in all countries, in all institutions.
AMY GOODMAN: Finally, Kumi — and, of course, we’re going to come back to you on issues of the Green New Deal, on issues of Biden saying he will immediately rejoin the U.N. climate summit, but I just want to ask: Why does who is president of the United States matter so much to the rest of the world?
KUMI NAIDOO: Well, if I might say that Julius Nyerere, the Tanzanian president that led us to liberation in Tanzania, once said, when we look at the United States, it’s weird to look at this country, because we have, seemingly, two parties, which generally advance the interests of big business and big capital. And he actually went on to say, “The United States is a one-party state, but with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.”
Now, in the current moment, we have been watching carefully — right? — because it’s easy for us to be triumphalistic and euphoric about President-elect Joe Biden because the incumbent is such a disastrous reality, but we will be vigilant, from our perspective, in recognizing that hopefully President Biden is in power by 20th of January — we would give fair notice that we will not — we will not be making an assumption that everything is going to get better. We expect things will improve, but it cannot but improve from the low bar that Donald Trump set.
It’s not a question of now whether things just improve. The United States has an obligation to the world to ensure that the four years we’ve lost under Trump, and many, many more years that we lost on climate action by previous administrations — there is catch-up to do. And we expect the next president of the United States to recognize that the United States has let the world down, has dragged their feet and has put the entire world, including the United States, at risk from climate, and therefore we would expect from this new administration not simply an improvement and not simply rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic while humanity sinks, but serious structural and systemic change that addresses the challenge of climate change.
AMY GOODMAN: Kumi Naidoo, we want to thank you for being with us, global ambassador for Africans Rising for Justice, Peace and Dignity, lifelong South African human rights activist and climate justice activist.
When we come back, we go to Istanbul, Turkey, and then to the U.K., for response to this historic U.S. election. Stay with us.