democracynow--2020-08-28--Jacob Blake Shooting Shines New Light on Death of Michael Bell, Killed by Kenosha Cops in 2004

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : Jacob Blake is not the first victim of a controversial police shooting in Kenosha .
Go back some years , on November 9th , 2004 , before police body cameras were in use in the United States , Kenosha police killed a white 21-year-old young man named Michael Bell in front of his mother and sister , in their driveway .
The incident began when Kenosha police stopped Michael Bell in his car in front of his parents ’ home .
Bell @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from behind by two Kenosha officers who pinned him against a parked car .
While a third officer kept his mother and sister several yards away , a fourth Kenosha police officer ran up , pulled out his weapon , placed it against Bell ’ s head and pulled the trigger , killing him .
The Kenosha Police Department conducted its own review of the incident and within two days completely exonerated the officers .
Bell ’ s father , Michael Bell , Sr. , commissioned an independent inquiry that found the police @ @ @ @ @ @ @ impossible , suggesting a cover-up .
The city settled a civil rights lawsuit with the Bells for $ 1.75 million , most of which was then spent on a campaign to change Wisconsin ’ s law governing how police-involved shootings are investigated .
After a decade , in 2014 , their campaign succeeded , and then-Governor Scott Walker signed the bill into law making Wisconsin the first state to require outside investigators conduct investigations into police shootings .
That ’ s where the Jacob Blake investigation is right now , under the supervision @ @ @ @ @ @ @ involvement of the FBI , Wisconsin State Patrol and Kenosha County Sheriff ’ s Office .
For more , we go to Kenosha where we ’ re joined by Michael Bell ’ s father , Michael Bell , Sr. , who led the campaign to change the law .
Welcome to Democracy Now !
, Michael Bell .
This must be horrifyingly familiar to you .
While you have Jacob Blake laying handcuffed in a hospital bed as a result of being shot by white police officers seven times at point-blank range in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ through a lot of deja vu in the last days with your family .
Tell us the story of your son Michael .
MICHAEL BELL : First , thanks , Amy , for having me on your show .
I want everybody to know that I am a retired military officer .
I was a pilot .
And so I ’ m coming at it from that perspective .
I flew combat missions in three different conflicts for our country .
So when my son first got killed , it was really hard @ @ @ @ @ @ @ person would do that , because everybody that I was associated with would never have done something like that .
It was really sad that I didn ’ t even believe my own daughter ’ s version of it .
It took me about ten weeks or so before I understood the truth just because I was just so hardened as a pro-uniform type of person .
My son had come home from a night out with friends .
He had pulled in front of his own home .
You can go to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ cam video .
An officer who he had a run-in with just weeks before pulled up .
My son was not a perfect angel .
He did have a pending DUI .
Also , he was a college student and he was employed .
So essentially , this officer approached him and it wasn ’ t even in a nice manner .
It was essentially , “ Get back in the car .
Get back in the car.
” My son , he worked with the officer .
He started moving back to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in the front seat and he pulled my son off camera , then , and didn ’ t put him in a car .
Very quickly , the officers made some accusations which turned out to be false .
He accused my son of speeding and running a stop sign .
But you can see the dash cam video and also in the civil rights trial , we negated that , all of those claims .
Eventually , my son refused a breathalyzer .
An officer went to arrest him .
They tased @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
He ran to the back of the home .
Michael ’ s mother and sister heard the commotion .
They ran downstairs .
And also a number of other people turned on their porch lights to watch what was going on .
And my son was—my son was essentially bent over a car and handcuffed , and an officer screamed “ He has my gun ” and an officer arrived on the scene , placed his gun directly to my son ’ s temple .
He tried to fire it , but @ @ @ @ @ @ @ gun wouldn ’ t fire .
So he put it back to my son ’ s temple a second time and he fired a deadly shot .
AMY GOODMAN : The officer in charge gave him a direct command ?
MICHAEL BELL : Yes .
“ Shoot.
” And I have to tell you that I have investigators on my team that are retired police officers , and we have later uncovered that the officer who said “ He has my gun , ” had made an honest mistake .
He had backed @ @ @ @ @ @ @ The car that was in question here was a Nissan Pulsar and had a very thin driver-side mirror , and it fit perfectly between what was called the jacket gap .
In Wisconsin , the winters are kind of cool , and so the holsters are set up in such a way that your gun can remain on the outside of your jacket .
And it kind of looks like a hook on top of a cane .
Well , the officer backed into this mirror , and as he twisted , he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and he immediately called out “ He has my gun.
” And that ’ s when the problem occurred .
Now , I understand as a military officer that types of things like this occur in combat situations that are highly volatile .
But the problem that I had was this , is that the Kenosha Police Department covered up the true facts of the case .
And in addition to that , those facts are ongoing today , and this investigation is not over with .
We are looking to find the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and that ’ s why we are still pushing it .
AMY GOODMAN : So you have the police officer who believes his holster was pulled ; he was up against the driver ’ s side outside mirror .
Then you have the police officer who had Michael in a bear hug .
And you had this all described , because his mother and sister was right there being held back by a fourth officer .
And this third officer , you believe , came in between Michael being held in a bear @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and this officer who thinks Michael has his gun but in fact , it ’ s the mirror that has his gun .
And this officer comes in between them and puts the gun to his head , because he is shot in the right side , in the right temple , and pulls the trigger .
MICHAEL BELL : That ’ s absolutely correct .
And we knew that from early on .
And it took us several years to finally catch them .
In 2007 , under video depositions , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Dunphy , he allowed all the officers to tell their lies .
And after the fourth officer told the lie , Lieutenant Krueger , he handed him a copy of the forensics examiner ’ s report that showed that my son was shot in the right side of the head and the bullet exited the left side of his head .
And then they were caught .
And then they turned around and tried to recreate a different version where the officer was placed in the front of the car and they had @ @ @ @ @ @ @ around .
I want your listeners to understand that the police in Kenosha had changed their testimony 19 times .
Eyewitness testimony never changed once .
The officer who killed my son actually changed his testimony six times .
And so that ’ s the problem that ’ s going on right now here in Kenosha , is that even though we fought for an independent investigation , all that investigation is going to go back to a district attorney who has been ignorant of all of the facts of the Michael Bell @ @ @ @ @ @ @ worried about whether justice is going to be served in the Jacob Blake case .
AMY GOODMAN : I ’ m going to talk about that in a second , where this Jacob Blake case is right now , who is doing the investigation .
But take us a step further .
Michael is killed in 2004 .
You have your own investigation done , an independent investigation , completely conflicts with the police investigation that exonerated all of the officers .
Then in 2010 , talk about the officer who took his @ @ @ @ @ @ @ settled a civil rights lawsuit on Michael ’ s birthday in 2010 .
And it is our belief that—when I settled the civil rights lawsuit , it was a record lawsuit at the time .
I refused to accept a nondisclosure or confidentiality agreement .
It was important to me to make sure that Michael ’ s story was told and these facts can continue to come into the public .
Well , the city was under such pressure at the time to settle that they accepted under those conditions .
Later in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ billboards along interstates in Wisconsin , and those billboards said “ When police kills you , they investigate themselves.
” And word got to the officer that the case was still open .
And October 30th of 2010 , the officer who mistakenly said that Michael had his gun took his own life .
And that ’ s the sad part about it .
AMY GOODMAN : Say that again ?
MICHAEL BELL : That ’ s the sad part about it , is that the officer that hooked his gun on a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ October 30th , 2010 .
And I want your listeners to understand that there is tragedy on both sides of this .
That the families of officers are grieving .
That Officer Erich Strausbaugh ’ s two children are growing up without a father .
Our family is devastated by this .
And that is why I am unrelentingly challenging the current system .
We accomplished the first part of that in 2014 by passing a law that says police can not investigate themselves after a fatal deadly shooting .
And just this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ new legislation which is a second part of our journey forward .
And I want everybody to remember that I am a military pilot , and flying jets in combat scenarios is very dangerous .
And the way we stay alive is by investigating previous mishaps thoroughly , understanding the true root causes and then implementing safety recommendations to make sure that it doesn ’ t happen again .
I wrote an article—and your listeners can look for it—it ’ s called “ The Insanity of Finding Fault Versus Fixing Cause.
” And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ airplane crash and I also took a police shooting and I compared them side-by-side and I showed how one changed aviation forever for the better and the law enforcement side , nothing changed .
And that ’ s why we are in this continuing cycle .
AMY GOODMAN : Michael Bell , I just want to ask , the law you got passed in 2014—and this bears directly on Jacob Blake ’ s case—the law you passed took an investigation of an officer-involved shooting out of Kenosha , and the Attorney General of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
But when I watched that news conference on Wednesday , it was then explained that once they do the investigation , maybe it takes 30 days , they then go to—they send that information back to the DA and he does like a thumbs up or a thumbs down .
“ Is there enough evidence here to convict ?
” He decides that , the Kenosha DA .
MICHAEL BELL : And that ’ s right .
The Kenosha DA has been a thorn to this from the beginning .
I mean @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , you have forensically impossible facts on my son ’ s case and the Kenosha DA turns a blind eye to it .
And I ’ m very worried that the Kenosha DA is going to do that same thing with Jacob ’ s case .
I have been telling everyone that we should be doing like New York and New Jersey .
The governor of New York did an executive order that said that all police shootings have to be prosecuted by outside prosecutors , so this case does not need to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a long-term relationship with both the Sheriff ’ s Department and the police department .
I am going to be releasing a video very soon that shows that the DA , Michael Graveley , here in Kenosha , colluded with the police chief to block an investigation into Dennis [ sic ] Miskinis ’ department .
And so that ’ s one of the things that has to change .
We can not have local police shootings investigated by the local prosecutor whose political base is the families and relatives of the law @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
AMY GOODMAN : And finally , as Jacob Blake was shot at point-blank range seven times in the back with his little kids—three , five , and eight—watching in horror in the car , when you learned of this , Michael Bell , your thoughts ?
And do you know Jacob ’ s family ?
MICHAEL BELL : I do not know Jacob ’ s family .
I learned about it Sunday night .
We have a Facebook page , Plea for a Change , and people from that Facebook page were @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And so during the dinner table , the first thing I did is I opened up and watched the video and I was very appalled by what I ’ ve seen .
But I ’ m not rendering judgment until the investigation is complete .
But one of the things that my eyes were drawn to immediately was the woman that was standing outside the door of the car jumping up and down because I know how emotionally traumatic this is to a family member that has to see it .
I assure @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s case was 16 years ago , Michael ’ s mother , Michael ’ s sister and the eyewitnesses that saw that case are still traumatized by the events of that night .
AMY GOODMAN : Michael Bell , I want to thank you so much for being with us , father of Michael Bell , Jr. , 21-year-old young man killed by the Kenosha police in 2004 .
It is his father ’ s efforts that led to the change in the law that took the investigation of an officer-involved shooting out @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
When we come back , President Trump accepts the Republican presidential nomination again in a speech filled with lies and falsehoods .
We will air excerpts and speak with the historian Rick Perlstein .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Jacob Blake is not the first victim of a controversial police shooting in Kenosha. Go back some years, on November 9th, 2004, before police body cameras were in use in the United States. Kenosha police killed a white 21-year-old young man named Michael Bell in front of his mother and sister in their driveway.
The incident began when Kenosha police stopped Michael Bell in his car in front of his parents’ home. Bell dashed up the driveway, was grabbed from behind by two Kenosha officers, who pinned him against a parked car. While a third officer kept his mother and sister several yards away, a fourth Kenosha police officer ran up, pulled out his weapon, placed it against Bell’s head and pulled the trigger, killing him. The Kenosha Police Department conducted its own review of the incident and, within two days, completely exonerated the officers.
Bell’s father, Michael Bell Sr., commissioned an independent inquiry that found the police account of the incident to be forensically impossible, suggesting a cover-up. The city settled a civil rights lawsuit with the Bells for $1.75 million, most of which was then spent on a campaign to change Wisconsin’s law governing how police-involved shootings are investigated. After a decade, in 2014, their campaign succeeded, and then-Governor Scott Walker signed the bill into law, making Wisconsin the first state to require outside investigators conduct investigations into police shootings.
That’s where the Jacob Blake investigation is right now, under the supervision of the Wisconsin Department of Justice with involvement of the FBI, Wisconsin State Patrol and Kenosha County Sheriff’s Office.
For more, we go to Kenosha, where we’re joined by Michael Bell’s father, Michael Bell Sr., who led the campaign to change the law.
Welcome to Democracy Now!, Michael Bell. This must be horrifyingly familiar to you. While you have Jacob Blake laying handcuffed in a hospital bed as a result of being shot by white police officers seven times at point-blank range in the back, you must have gone through a lot of déjà vu in the last days with your family. Tell us the story of your son Michael.
MICHAEL BELL SR.: Well, first, thanks, Amy, for having me on your show. I want everybody to know that I am a retired military officer. I was a pilot. And so I’m coming at it from that perspective. I flew combat missions in three different conflicts for our country. So, when my son first got killed, it was really hard for me to believe that a uniformed person would do that, because everybody that I was associated with would never have done something like that. It was really sad that I didn’t even believe my own daughter’s version of it. It took me about 10 weeks or so before I understood the truth, just because I was just so hardened as a pro-uniform type of person.
My son had come home from a night out with friends, had pulled in front of his own home. You can go to MichaelBell.info, and you can watch the dashcam video. An officer who he had a run-in with just weeks before pulled up. My son was not a perfect angel. He did have a pending DUI. Also, he was a college student, and he was employed. So, essentially, this officer approached him, and it wasn’t even in a nice manner. It was essentially, “Get back in the car. Get back in the car.”
My son, he worked with the officer. He started moving back to the car. The officer saw somebody in the front seat, and he pulled my son off camera then and didn’t put him in a car. Very quickly, the officers made some accusations, which turned to be false. He accused my son of speeding and running a stop sign. But you can see the dashcam video, and also in the civil rights trial we negated that, all those claims.
Eventually, my son refused a breathalyzer. An officer went to arrest him. They tased him. You can hear him scream. He ran to the back of the home. And Michael’s mother and sister heard the commotion. They ran downstairs. And also a number of other people turned on their porch lights to watch what was going on. And my son was — my son was essentially bent over a car and handcuffed, and an officer screamed, “He has my gun!” And an officer arrived on the scene, placed his gun directly to my son’s temple. He tried to fire it, but because the slide was disengaged, the gun wouldn’t fire. So he put it back to my son’s temple a second time, and he fired a deadly shot.
AMY GOODMAN: The officer in charge gave him a direct command?
MICHAEL BELL SR.: Yes. “Shoot.” And I have to tell you that I have investigators on my team that are retired police officers, and we’ve later uncovered that the officer who said, “He has my gun,” had made an honest mistake. He had backed himself up into a car mirror. The car that was in question here was a Nissan Pulsar and had a very thin driver-side mirror, and it fit perfectly between what was called the jacket gap. In Wisconsin, the winters are kind of cool, and so the holsters are set up in such a way that your gun can remain on the outside of your jacket. And it kind of looks like a hook on top of a cane.
Well, this officer backed into this mirror, and as he twisted, he felt the tugging on his gun, and he immediately called out, “He has my gun.” And that’s when the problem occurred. Now, I understand, as a military officer, that types of things like this occur in combat situations that are highly volatile. But the problem that I had was this, is that the Kenosha Police Department covered up the true facts of the case. And in addition to that, those facts are ongoing today, and this investigation is not over with. We are looking to find the truth about my son’s case, and that’s why we’re still pushing it.
AMY GOODMAN: So, you have the police officer who you believe his holster was pulled. He was up against the driver’s side outside mirror. Then you have the police officer who had Michael in a bear hug. And you had this all described, because his mother and sister was right there being held back by a fourth officer. And this third officer, you believe, came in between Michael being held in a bear hug over the hood of the car and this officer, who thinks Michael has his gun but in fact it’s the mirror that has his gun. And this officer comes in between them and puts the gun to his head, because he’s shot in the right side, in the right temple, and pulls the trigger.
MICHAEL BELL SR.: That’s absolutely correct. And we knew that from early on. And it took us several years to finally catch them. In 2007, under video depositions, my attorney, Patrick Dunphy at Cannon & Dunphy, he allowed all the officers to tell their lies. And after the fourth officer told the lie, Lieutenant Krueger, he handed him a copy of the forensics examiner’s report that showed that my son was shot in the right side of the head and the bullet exited the left side of his head. And then they were caught. And then they turned around and tried to recreate a different version where the officer was placed in the front of the car and they had to twist my son’s head around.
I want your listeners to understand that the police in Kenosha had changed their testimony 19 times. Eyewitness testimony never changed once. The officer who killed my son actually changed his testimony six times. And so that’s the problem that’s going on right now here in Kenosha, is that even though we fought for an independent investigation, all that investigation is going to go back to a district attorney who has been ignorant of all the facts of the Michael Bell case. And so, I am very worried about whether justice is going to be served in the Jacob Blake case.
AMY GOODMAN: So, I’m going to talk about that in a second, where this Jacob Blake case is right now, who’s doing the investigation. But take us a step further. Michael is killed in 2004. You have your own investigation done, an independent investigation, completely conflicts with the police investigation that exonerated all the officers. Then, in 2010, talk about the officer who took his own life.
MICHAEL BELL SR.: We settled a civil rights lawsuit on Michael’s birthday in 2010. And it is our belief that — when I settled the civil rights lawsuit, it was a record lawsuit at the time. I refused to accept a nondisclosure or confidentiality agreement. It was important to me to make sure that Michael’s story was told and these facts can continue to come into the public. Well, the city was under such pressure at the time to settle that they accepted under those conditions.
And later in the summer, I started taking out billboards along interstates in Wisconsin, and those billboards said, “When police kills you, they investigate themselves.” And word got to the officer that the case was still open. And October 30th of 2010, the officer who mistakenly said that Michael had his gun took his own life. And that’s the sad part about it. I want your listeners —
AMY GOODMAN: Say that again?
MICHAEL BELL SR.: That’s the sad part about it, is that the officer that hooked his gun on a car mirror took his own life on October 30th, 2010. And I want your listeners to understand that there’s tragedy on both sides of this, that the families of officers are grieving, that officer Erich Strausbaugh’s two children are growing up without a father. Our family is devastated by this.
And that is why I am unrelentingly challenging the current system. And we accomplished the first part of that in 2014 by passing a law that says police cannot investigate themselves after a fatal deadly shooting. And just this week, we are getting ready to introduce new legislation which is a second part of our journey forward.
And I want everybody to remember that I’m a military pilot, and flying jets in combat scenarios is very dangerous. And the way we stay alive is by investigating previous mishaps thoroughly, understanding the true root causes and then implementing safety recommendations to make sure that it doesn’t happen again. I wrote an article — and your listeners can look for it — it’s called “The Insanity of Finding Fault Versus Fixing Cause.” And what I did is I took an airplane crash, and I also took a police shooting, and I compared them side by side, and I showed how one changed aviation forever for the better, and the law enforcement side, nothing changed. And that’s why we are in this continuing cycle. So —
AMY GOODMAN: So —
MICHAEL BELL SR.: — in 2007 — go ahead.
AMY GOODMAN: So, Michael Bell, I just want to ask — the law you got passed in 2014, and this bears directly on Jacob Blake’s case —
MICHAEL BELL SR.: That’s right.
AMY GOODMAN: The law you passed took an investigation of an officer-involved shooting out of Kenosha, and the attorney general of Wisconsin is now in charge of it. But when I watched that news conference on Wednesday, it was then explained that once they do the investigation — maybe it takes, what, 30 days — they then go to — they send that information back to the DA, and he does like a thumbs up or a thumbs down: Is there enough evidence here to convict? He decides that, the Kenosha DA.
MICHAEL BELL SR.: And that’s right. And the Kenosha DA has been a thorn to this from the beginning. I mean, you have all this changing testimony. You have forensically impossible facts on my son’s case, and the Kenosha DA turns a blind eye to it. And I am very worried that the Kenosha DA is going to do that same thing with Jacob’s case. I have been telling everyone that we should be doing like New York and New Jersey. The governor of New York did an executive order that said that all police shootings have to be prosecuted by outside prosecutors. So this case does not need to come back to a DA that has a long-term relationship with both the Sheriff’s Department and the Police Department.
I’m going to be releasing a video very soon that shows that the DA, Michael Graveley, here in Kenosha, colluded with the police chief to block an investigation into [Daniel] Miskinis’s department. And so, that’s one of the things that has to change. We cannot have local police shootings investigated by the local prosecutor whose political base is the families and relatives of the law enforcement officers that he provides cover for.
AMY GOODMAN: And finally, as Jacob Blake was shot at point-blank range seven times in the back with his little kids — 3, 5 and 8 — watching in horror in the car, when you learned of this, Michael Bell, your thoughts? And do you know Jacob’s family?
MICHAEL BELL SR.: I do not know Jacob’s family. I learned about it Sunday night. We have a Facebook page, Plea for a Change, and people from that Facebook page were just sending me video after video. And so, during the dinner table, first thing I did is I opened up and watched the video, and I was very appalled by what I’ve seen. But I’m not rendering judgment until the investigation is complete.
But one of the things that my eyes were drawn to immediately was the woman that was standing outside the door of the car jumping up and down, because I know how emotionally traumatic this is to a family member that has to see it. I assure you that even though my son’s case was 16 years ago, Michael’s mother, Michael’s sister and the eyewitnesses that saw that case are still traumatized by the events of that night.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Michael Bell, I want to thank you so much for being with us, father of Michael Bell Jr., 21-year-old young man killed by the Kenosha police in 2004. It is his father’s efforts that led to the change in the law that took the investigation of an officer-involved shooting out of the hands of the Kenosha police.
When we come back, President Trump accepts the Republican presidential nomination again in a speech filled with lies and falsehoods. We’ll air excerpts and speak with the historian Rick Perlstein.


democracynow--2020-08-28--ACLU Demands Resignation of Top Cops in Kenosha for Racism & Brutal Response to Jacob Blake Protests

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, Democracynow.org .
We ’ re Breaking with Convention .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
We begin today ’ s show in Wisconsin , where the father of Jacob Blake said Thursday his son is being handcuffed to a hospital bed in Milwaukee , where he remains paralyzed from the waist down after he was shot seven times at point blank range in the back by a Kenosha police officer .
Jacob Blake , Sr. said @ @ @ @ @ @ @ any , his son faces .
Jacob Blake is African American .
The white officer who shot him , Rusten Sheskey , has been placed on administrative leave , has not been fired or charged with a crime .
Protesters marched through Kenosha for a fifth straight night Thursday to demand Sheskey ’ s arrest as Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers said Alabama , Arizona and Michigan were sending more National Guard troops to patrol the streets .
This all comes as Kenosha County prosecutors have brought six charges against Kyle Rittenhouse , the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ two people and injuring a third with an AR-15 assault rifle during protests in Kenosha Tuesday .
If convicted on charges of first-degree intentional homicide and first-degree reckless homicide , Rittenhouse faces up to life in prison .
Calls are growing for the Kenosha police chief and county sheriff to resign after police allowed Rittenhouse to leave the scene after gunning down protesters .
Video has surfaced of Kenosha police offering militia members water earlier in the night and expressing their support for them .
The American Civil Liberties Union also condemned Police @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for the deadly assault at a news conference on Wednesday .
AMY GOODMAN : Meanwhile , a damning video of Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth making racist comments has surfaced from a 2018 news conference .
Beth described five people of color accused of shoplifting and crashing a stolen car as “ garbage people that fill our communities , that are a cancer to our society.
” COUNTY SHERIFF DAVID BETH : Let ’ s put them in jail .
Let ’ s stop them from truly , at least some of these @ @ @ @ @ @ @ other women pregnant and having small children .
Let ’ s put them away .
At some point , we have to stop being politically correct .
And I don ’ t care what race , I don ’ t care how old they are .
If there ’ s a threshold that they cross , these people have to be warehoused .
No recreational time .
In this country , in this community , in this state , we have to get to the point that we no longer will put up @ @ @ @ @ @ @ communities , that are a cancer to our society .
AMY GOODMAN : For more , we go to Milwaukee where we ’ re joined by Chris Ott , Executive Director of the ACLU Wisconsin .
He is calling for Kenosha Sheriff David Beth and Police Chief Daniel Miskinis to resign .
We welcome you to Democracy Now !
Can you lay out the latest , what your demands are and why ?
CHRIS OTT : Thank you , Amy .
We have of course seen this terrible pattern of excessive and deadly @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and other people of color in particular , and then a really heavy-handed response to the understandable reaction and concern from the communities .
And when police and law enforcement go into communities in this militarized way , this heavy-handed way , it just inflames tensions , makes things worse and creates dangerous new situations .
Unfortunately , that is what we have seen playing out in Kenosha all week and that is why the ACLU has called for the resignations of the county sheriff and the police chief for their leading role @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : What ’ s astounding is at these news conferences we have seen on Wednesday and then again on Thursday , they always lead with the protests and the protesters .
You have the comments about the protesters being responsible for the murders on Tuesday night .
That is just—extremely significant , to say the least .
Rarely talking about the police shooting of Jacob Blake , not to mention those murders .
CHRIS OTT : Right .
It ’ s really troubling to hear .
After seeing the terrible events that unfolded @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of Mr. Blake but then the killings on Tuesday night , to see law enforcement officials effectively blaming people for their own deaths is just outrageous and is making the situation even worse than it is .
AMY GOODMAN : So what is happening with Jacob Blake right now , laying paralyzed in a hospital bed in Milwaukee but handcuffed ?
CHRIS OTT : That ’ s what I have heard .
I have seen the same reports that you have .
And if that is true , then that is just adding @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that Mr. Blake sustained after being shot seven times in front of his children on Sunday .
AMY GOODMAN : And the officer , the white police officer who shot Jacob Blake seven times point-blank in the back ?
CHRIS OTT : Well , we need a much stronger response than we have seen so far .
We need justice in this case and so many others .
One of the things that ’ s really troubling going back to the fatal shootings on Tuesday night is the stark contrast between the way @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , effectively given no benefit of the doubt , and yet on the streets of Kenosha on Tuesday night , we saw Sheriff Beth ’ s deputies not only fraternizing with white supremacist counter-protesters , but apparently , even though people were shouting that Kyle Rittenhouse—that they had seen Kyle Rittenhouse shoot two people , they let him go .
The contrast there is just really stark and that just shows the problem that we have all across the country .
AMY GOODMAN : So the ACLU is calling for the resignations of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ What has been the response ?
CHRIS OTT : I don ’ t know that we have seen a response from them so far , but we did this following the lead of organizers on the ground .
So we are working with people in the community on this , in consultation with people in the community .
This kind of response that we have seen in Kenosha needs to end , and we need to see these resignations as a part of making that happen .
[ inaudible ] AMY GOODMAN : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you for being with us , Executive Director of the ACLU Wisconsin .
We ’ re going to find out now why the police department is not investigating itself .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We begin today’s show in Wisconsin, where the father of Jacob Blake said Thursday his son is being handcuffed to a hospital bed in Milwaukee, where he remains paralyzed from the waist down after he was shot seven times at point-blank range in the back by a Kenosha police officer. Jacob Blake Sr. said it remains unclear what charges, if any, his son faces. Jacob Blake is African American. The white officer who shot him, Rusten Sheskey, has been placed on administrative leave, has not been fired or charged with a crime. Protesters marched through Kenosha for a fifth straight night Thursday to demand Sheskey’s arrest, as Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers said Alabama, Arizona and Michigan were sending more National Guard troops to patrol the streets.
This all comes as Kenosha County prosecutors have brought six charges against Kyle Rittenhouse, the 17-year-old militia member who was filmed killing two people and injuring a third with an AR-15 assault rifle during protests in Kenosha Tuesday. If convicted on charges of first-degree intentional homicide and first-degree reckless homicide, Rittenhouse faces up to life in prison.
Calls are growing for the Kenosha police chief and county sheriff to resign, after police allowed Rittenhouse to leave the scene after gunning down protesters. Video has surfaced of Kenosha police offering militia members water earlier in the night and expressing their support for them. The American Civil Liberties Union also condemned Police Chief Daniel Miskinis’ comments blaming protesters for the deadly assault at a news conference on Wednesday.
POLICE CHIEF DANIEL MISKINIS: The curfew is in place to protect. Had persons not been out involved in violation of that, perhaps the situation that unfolded would not have happened.
AMY GOODMAN: Meanwhile, a damning video of Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth making racist comments has surfaced from a 2018 news conference. Beth described five people of color accused of shoplifting and crashing a stolen car as, quote, “garbage people that fill our communities, that are a cancer to our society.”
COUNTY SHERIFF DAVID BETH: Let’s put them in jail. Let’s stop them from truly, at least some of these males, going out and getting 10 other women pregnant and having small children. Let’s put them away. At some point, we have to stop being politically correct. And I don’t care what race, I don’t care how old they are. If there’s a threshold that they cross, these people have to be warehoused. No recreational time. … In this country, in this community, in this state, we have to get to the point that we no longer will put up with the garbage people that fill our communities, that are a cancer to our society.
AMY GOODMAN: For more, we go to Milwaukee, where we’re joined by Chris Ott, executive director of the ACLU Wisconsin. He’s calling for Kenosha Sheriff David Beth and Police Chief Daniel Miskinis to resign.
We welcome you to Democracy Now! Can you lay out the latest, what your demands are and why?
CHRIS OTT: Thank you, Amy. We’ve, of course, seen this terrible pattern of excessive and deadly police force against Black men, women and other people of color, in particular, and then a really heavy-handed response to the understandable reaction and concern from the communities. And when police and law enforcement go into communities in this militarized way, this heavy-handed way, it just inflames tensions, makes things worse and creates dangerous new situations. Unfortunately, that’s what we’ve seen playing out in Kenosha all week, and that is why the ACLU has called for the resignations of the county sheriff and the police chief for their leading role in what’s happened.
AMY GOODMAN: What’s astounding is at these news conferences we’ve seen on Wednesday and then again on Thursday, they always lead with the protests and the protesters. You have the comments about the protesters being responsible for the murders on Tuesday night — that’s just extremely significant, to say the least — rarely talking about the police shooting of Jacob Blake, not to mention those murders.
CHRIS OTT: Right. It’s really troubling to hear. After seeing the terrible events that unfolded all week, starting with the shooting of Mr. Blake but then the killings on Tuesday night, to see law enforcement officials effectively blaming people for their own deaths is just outrageous and is making the situation even worse than it is.
AMY GOODMAN: So, what is happening with Jacob Blake right now, laying paralyzed in a hospital bed in Milwaukee but handcuffed?
CHRIS OTT: That’s what I’ve heard. I’ve seen the same reports that you have. And if that is true, then that is just adding a terrible insult to the terrible injuries that Mr. Blake sustained after being shot seven times in front of his children on Sunday.
AMY GOODMAN: And the officer, the white police officer, who shot Jacob Blake seven times point blank in the back?
CHRIS OTT: Well, we need a much stronger response than we’ve seen so far. We need justice in this case and so many others. And one of the things that’s really troubling, going back to the fatal shootings on Tuesday night, is the stark contrast between the way that Mr. Blake was treated on Sunday, effectively given no benefit of the doubt, and yet on the streets of Kenosha on Tuesday night we saw Sheriff Beth’s deputies not only fraternizing with white supremacist counterprotesters, but apparently, even though people were shouting that Kyle Rittenhouse — that they had seen Kyle Rittenhouse shoot two people, they let him go. The contrast there is just really stark, and that just shows the problem that we have all across the country.
AMY GOODMAN: So the ACLU is calling for the resignations of the sheriff and the police chief. What has been the response?
CHRIS OTT: I don’t know that we have seen a response from them so far, but we did this following the lead of organizers on the ground. So, we are working with people in the community on this, in consultation with people in the community. And we need to see — this kind of response that we’ve seen in Kenosha needs to end, and we need to see these resignations as a part of making that happen. [inaudible]
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Chris Ott, we want to thank you for being with us, executive director of the ACLU Wisconsin. And we’re going to find out now why the police department is not investigating itself.


democracynow--2020-08-28--Headlines for August 28, 2020

Headlines for August 28, 2020

President Donald Trump formally accepted the Republican Party ’ s nomination Thursday night before a crowd of about 1,500 on @ @ @ @ @ White House .
In defiance of social distancing rules , attendees sat shoulder-to-shoulder with few @ @ @ @ @ spoke as the U.S. death toll from the coronavirus topped 180,000 — by far the @ @ @ @ @ .
During his speech Trump defended his administration ’ s handling of the pandemic .
@ @ @ @ @ We are delivering life-saving therapies and will produce a vaccine before the end of the @ @ @ @ @ sooner .
We will defeat the virus and the pandemic and emerge stronger than ever @ @ @ @ @ speech Trump repeatedly attacked his rival Joe Biden , claiming he was a threat to @ @ @ @ @ reported Trump ’ s speech included at least 20 lies and misleading statements .
We @ @ @ @ @ ’ s speech later in the program .

President Donald Trump formally accepted the Republican Party’s nomination Thursday night before a crowd of about 1,500 on the South Lawn of the White House. In defiance of social distancing rules, attendees sat shoulder to shoulder with few people wearing masks. Trump spoke as the U.S. death toll from the coronavirus topped 180,000 — by far the highest total in the world. During his speech, Trump defended his administration’s handling of the pandemic.
President Donald Trump: “We are delivering life-saving therapies and will produce a vaccine before the end of the year, or maybe even sooner. We will defeat the virus and the pandemic and emerge stronger than ever before.”
During his acceptance speech, Trump repeatedly attacked his rival Joe Biden, claiming he was a threat to the American dream. CNN reported Trump’s speech included at least 20 lies and misleading statements. We will have more on Trump’s speech later in the program.


democracynow--2020-08-31--White Supremacist in the White House: Ibram X. Kendi on Trump's Calls for "Law & Order" in Kenosha

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, Democracynow.org , the Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
We are spending the hour with now Boston University Professor Ibram X. Kendi , founding director of the BU Center for Antiracist Research , contributing writer at The Atlantic , and author of many books including Stamped from the Beginning : The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America which won the National Book Award for Nonfiction , and How to Be an Antiracist @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on Friday , thousands gathered for the 57th March on Washington on the National Mall for an event organized by the National Action Network .
Among those who spoke were family members of victims of police violence .
This is Jacob Blake Sr. , the father of Jacob Blake , followed by George Floyd ’ s brother Philonise Floyd and the mother of Breonna Taylor , Tamika Palmer .
AMY GOODMAN : So , there you have the March on August 28th , the anniversary of the March on Washington .
We are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ X. Kendi to talk about the significance of what has been taking place and President Trump promising to go to Kenosha , Wisconsin , despite the pleading of the governor of Wisconsin , Evers , the lieutenant governor , the first African-American lieutenant , Mandela Barnes .
He says he is going to Kenosha , Wisconsin , tomorrow .
Can you talk about the latest , Professor Kendi , from Kenosha to Portland to the Republican convention to the issue of white supremacy in this country ?
You have used the metaphor of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in America today .
IBRAM X. KENDI : The United States is facing a form of metastatic cancer , a form of metastatic racism in which literally racism has spread to every part of the body politic .
And how do we know that ?
We know that because racial inequities and injustices are all around us .
And we see the pain that is stemming from that metastatic racism .
We see the people whose lives are being lost .
And then we have a president who is claiming that it doesn @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Blake , Sr. sort of charges America with guilty , America , particularly Americans like Trump , are saying , “ No .
Not guilty .
Not racist.
” Meanwhile , so many people are dying of COVID-19 because of the administration of course trying to look the other way , or so many black and brown and indigenous people are dying at disproportionate rates .
All the while , people are saying “ Not racist.
” All the while , people are denying the existence of this spread .
And what happens @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , of the spread of cancer , of even certainly the spread of racism ?
It ’ s only going to get worse !
And we see , what we have been seeing this summer is it ’ s only going to get worse and it is only going to continue to get worse until we face it , until we admit it , until we acknowledge that indeed we have racism that spreads to every part of the body politic .
But then you have people who are aware of it but @ @ @ @ @ @ @ get the treatment because the treatment is painful , the treatment is uncomfortable .
Yes , the treatment is going to be painful or uncomfortable , but it is the only thing that is going to give us as a nation and as a people the chance to live .
AMY GOODMAN : You have the situation in Kenosha where a white police officer at point-blank range last Sunday shoots Jacob Blake at least seven times .
Jacob Blake , whose father is also Jacob Blake , and whose grandfather is also Jacob @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in Chicago who led the housing desegregation movement in an organization that he cofounded called NOW [ sp ] , has a housing complex named for him , the Jacob Blake Manor .
The young 29-year-old now paralyzed , Jacob Blake , grew up , went to high school and middle school in Evanston where his grandfather did his ministry and his civil rights work .
And then you have Kyle Rittenhouse , the 17-year-old who turned himself in .
I emphasize this because he was on the streets of Kenosha .
He @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Black Lives Matter protesters , murdered them on Tuesday night .
This is during the Republican convention .
The Trump administration , neither Pence nor President Trump mentioned this .
He ’ s illegally carrying a long gun , an AR-15 , through the streets with his hands up in the air .
The police do not stop him as so many protesters saying “ He just murdered people.
” Now he has been accused , charged with first-degree intentional homicide .
But he drove home to Illinois and turned himself in .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ get him to stop .
Your thoughts ?
He is a white militia member , 17 years old , wannabe cop .
IBRAM X. KENDI : First , the fact that he is a wannabe cop demonstrates the types of folks , particularly the types of white men , who are currently attracted to American policing .
And so then the question becomes , why are so many white disaffected racist young men who want to shoot and kill and get away with it being attracted to American policing ?
But I think @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it is improbable , it is impossible for a black person to be holding an AR-15 and walking towards the police and walking away from people who are saying they just shot someone , and for the police to let him go on by .
I mean , that is impossible !
But it ’ s possible when it comes to white people because even when white people are armed , they seem unarmed even to police officers !
But when black people are unarmed , they are armed and dangerous .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sickness of racist ideas—that it allows for so many people who are unarmed and certainly not dangerous to die while so many people who are white who are armed and dangerous and just shot people to go to their home and sleep in their bed and certainly to not be harassed by the police .
AMY GOODMAN : In response to Jacob Blake being handcuffed to his hospital bed , you tweeted , Professor Kendi , “ An allegory of what racism has done to black communities , paralyzed economically and politically , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ shackled.
” IBRAM X. KENDI : Yeah .
Like so many people , I was just outraged that Jacob had not committed a crime , he was shot seven times in the back , he was paralyzed and then on top of that he is being sort of chained to a bed as if he is the criminal .
And again , that ’ s part of the problem is the black victim , the person who was unarmed and shot in the back seven times is still being framed by America or @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as the criminal .
Because of blackness !
It doesn ’ t really matter .
And I think that ’ s what people are so outraged by .
Because his life does not matter .
Even when he is the victim of a hail of gunfire and he is paralyzed , he still is viewed as somebody who is dangerous that needs to be shackled .
AMY GOODMAN : How has the work of antiracist protesters over the last decades , over the last centuries , what do you think people should be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , what some call the most important moment , especially this election , in U.S. history ?
IBRAM X. KENDI : Well , I think first and foremost , no one should be fooled by the law-and -order rhetoric that ’ s coming from the Trump Administration .
When they speak of law and order , they ’ re talking about the law and order of racism and black death .
That ’ s what they want .
And if you support law and order , then you support the order of black @ @ @ @ @ @ @ more importantly , we should be joining organizations and supporting organizations that are challenging racism and racist policy and white supremacy .
We should certainly be thinking very seriously about voting for folks who are striving to be antiracist , but even more than that , we should figure out ways to be civically engaged .
Every single one of us has power .
We have the power to resist .
We have the power to resist policy .
We have the power to resist policymakers .
And one of the sort of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of lived by for centuries , for decades , for years , for months is that they have the power .
Because racist power has been trying to convince us that we don ’ t have power .
Whether it is enslaved people or even people today who are trying to figure out what can they do in the face of this juggernaut of racism , don ’ t think ever that you don ’ t have the power .
And the way we have power is by coming together , is by @ @ @ @ @ @ @ our organizational strength .
IBRAM X. KENDI : Oh , without question .
And anyone who in any way can make a case that he is not a white supremacist based on what he says and based on what he does and that he ’ s not a racist—and again , I ’ m only stating this—if someone is pushing policies that lead to white supremacy , they are a white supremacist .
AMY GOODMAN : Ibram X. Kendi , we thank you so much for spending this hour with us , Andrew @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Boston University , founding director of the BU Center for Antiracist Research .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman. We’re spending the hour with now Boston University professor Ibram X. Kendi, founding director of the BU Center for Antiracist Research, contributing writer at The Atlantic, author of many books, including Stamped from the Beginning: The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America, which won the National Book Award for Nonfiction, and How to Be an Antiracist.
Well, as we said, on Friday, thousands gathered for the 57th March on Washington on the National Mall for an event organized by the National Action Network. Among those who spoke were family members of victims of police violence. This is Jacob Blake Sr., the father of Jacob Blake, followed by George Floyd’s brother Philonise Floyd and the mother of Breonna Taylor, Tamika Palmer.
JACOB BLAKE SR.: We’re going to hold court today. We’re going to hold court on systematic racism. We’re going to have court right now. Guilty! Guilty! Guilty! Racism against all of us. Guilty! Guilty! Racism against Trayvon Martin. We find them guilty! Racism against George Floyd. We find them guilty! Racism against Jacob Blake, Abdul Duwala [phon.]. If I said the name wrong, Allah forgive me. Guilty! And we’re not taking it anymore!
PHILONISE FLOYD: I wish George were here to see this right now. That’s who I’m marching for. I’m marching for George, for Breonna, for Ahmaud.
AMY GOODMAN: So, there you have the march on August 28th, the anniversary of the March on Washington. We are going to turn right now to Ibram X. Kendi to talk about the significance of what has been taking place and President Trump promising to go to Kenosha, Wisconsin, despite the pleading of the governor of Wisconsin, Evers, the lieutenant governor, the first African American lieutenant governor, Mandela Barnes. He says he’s going to Kenosha, Wisconsin, tomorrow. Can you talk about the latest, Professor Kendi, from Kenosha to Portland to the Republican convention to the issue of white supremacy in this country? You have used the metaphor of cancer to describe what we are confronting in America today.
IBRAM X. KENDI: Yeah. So, I mean, the United States is facing a form of metastatic cancer, a form of metastatic racism, in which, literally, racism has spread to every part of the body politic. And how do we know that? We know that because racial inequities and injustices are all around us. And we see the pain that is stemming from that metastatic racism. We see the people whose lives are being lost.
And then we have a president who is claiming that it doesn’t exist. You know, just as Jacob Blake Sr. sort of charges America with guilty, America, particularly Americans like Trump, are saying, “No, not guilty, not racist.” And meanwhile, so many people are dying of COVID-19 because of the administration, of course, trying to look the other way, while so many Black and Brown and Indigenous people are dying at disproportionate rates. All the while, people are saying “Not racist.” All the while, people are denying the existence of this spread.
And what happens when you deny the existence of cancer, of the spread of cancer, of even certainly the spread of racism? It’s only going to get worse. And we see what we’ve been seeing this summer, is it’s only going to get worse, and it’s only going to continue to get worse until we face it, until we admit it, until we acknowledge that indeed we have racism that spread to every part of the body politic. But then you have people who are aware of it, but then they don’t want to get the treatment, because the treatment is painful, the treatment is uncomfortable. Yes, the treatment is going to be painful or uncomfortable, but it’s the only thing that’s going to give us, as a nation and as a people, the chance to live.
AMY GOODMAN: You have the situation in Kenosha where a white police officer at point-blank range last Sunday shoots Jacob Blake at least seven times. Jacob Blake, whose father is also Jacob Blake, and whose grandfather is also Jacob Blake. He is the well-known — he was the well-known pastor in Chicago who led the housing desegregation movement in an organization that he co-founded called NOW, has a housing complex named for him, the Jacob Blake Manor. The young 29-year-old, now paralyzed, Jacob Blake, grew up, went to high school and middle school in Evanston, where his grandfather did his ministry and his civil rights work.
And then you have Kyle Rittenhouse, the 17-year-old, who turned himself in. I emphasize this because he was on the streets of Kenosha. He gunned down — allegedly gunned down two Black Lives Matter protesters, murdered them on Tuesday night. This is during the Republican convention. The Trump administration, neither Pence nor President Trump mentioned this. He’s illegally carrying a long gun, an AR-15, through the streets with his hands up in the air. The police do not stop him as so many protesters are saying, “He just murdered people.” Now he’s been accused of first-degree — charged with first-degree intentional homicide. But he drove home to Illinois and turned himself in. That’s what it took to get him to stop. Your thoughts? He’s a white militia member, 17 years old, wannabe cop.
IBRAM X. KENDI: Well, first, the fact that he’s a wannabe cop demonstrates the types of folks, particularly the types of white men, who are currently attracted to American policing. And so, then the question becomes: Why are so many white disaffected, racist young men who want to shoot and kill and get away with it being attracted to American policing?
But I think what’s also fascinating is that it is improbable — it is impossible for a Black person to be holding an AR-15 and walking towards the police and walking away from people who are saying they just shot someone, and for the police to let him go on by. I mean, that is impossible. But it’s possible when it comes to white people, because even when white people are armed, they seem unarmed even to police officers. But when Black people are unarmed, they’re armed and dangerous. And I think that’s fundamentally the sickness of racist ideas, that it allows for so many people who are unarmed and certainly not dangerous to die, while so many people who are white who are armed and dangerous and just shot people to go to their home and sleep in their bed and certainly to not be harassed by the police.
AMY GOODMAN: In response to Jacob Kendi [sic] being handcuffed to his hospital bed, you tweeted, Professor Kendi — Jacob Blake being handcuffed to his hospital bed, you tweeted, “An allegory of what racism has done to Black communities. Paralyzed economically and politically. Fighting hard to recover. But inexplicably still shackled.”
IBRAM X. KENDI: Yeah. I mean, like so many people, I was just outraged. Jacob had not committed a crime. He was shot seven times in the back. He was paralyzed. And then, on top of that, he is being sort of chained to a bed as if he’s the criminal. And again, that’s part of the problem, is the Black victim, the person who was unarmed and shot in the back seven times, is still being framed by America or by the state or by police officers as the criminal, and because of Blackness. It doesn’t really matter. And I think that’s what people are so outraged by, you know, because his life does not matter. Even when he’s the victim of a hail of gunfire and he’s paralyzed, he still is viewed as somebody who’s dangerous that needs to be shackled.
AMY GOODMAN: How has the work of antiracist protesters over the last decades, over the last centuries — what do you think people should be doing now in this absolutely critical period, what some call the most important moment, especially this election, in U.S. history?
IBRAM X. KENDI: Well, I think, first and foremost, no one should be fooled by law-and-order rhetoric that’s coming from the Trump administration. When they speak of law and order, they’re talking about the law and order of racism and Black death. That’s what they want. And if you support law and order, then you support the order of Black death and racism.
But I think, more importantly, we should be joining organizations and supporting organizations that are challenging racism and racist policy and white supremacy. You know, we should certainly be thinking very seriously about voting for folks who are striving to be antiracist. But even more than that, we should figure out ways to be civically engaged.
Every single one of us has power. We have the power to resist. We have the power to resist policy. We have the power to resist policymakers. And one of the sort of guiding principles that antiracist activists have sort of lived by for centuries, for decades, for years, for months, is that they have the power, because racist power has been trying to convince us that we don’t have power, whether it’s enslaved people or even people today who are trying to figure out what can they do in the face of this juggernaut of racism. Don’t think ever that you don’t have the power. And the way we have power is by coming together, is by organizing together, is by challenging through our organizational strength.
AMY GOODMAN: Would you call President Trump a white supremacist?
IBRAM X. KENDI: Oh, without question. And, I mean, anyone who in any way can make a case that he is not a white supremacist, based on what he says and based on what he does, and that he’s not a racist — and again, I’m only stating this — if someone is —
AMY GOODMAN: Five seconds.
IBRAM X. KENDI: — is pushing policies that lead to white supremacy, they’re a white supremacist.
AMY GOODMAN: Ibram X. Kendi, we thank you so much for spending this hour with us, Andrew W. Mellon professor in the humanities at Boston University, founding director of the BU Center for Antiracist Research. To see all our coverage of Black Panther, of Afrofuturism —


democracynow--2020-08-31--Remembering Chadwick Boseman: Ibram X. Kendi on Legacy of "Black Panther" Actor, Cancer & Anti-Racis

Remembering Chadwick Boseman: Ibram X. Kendi on Legacy of "Black Panther" Actor, Cancer & Anti-Racism

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, Democracynow.org , the Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
When we come back , we spend the hour with Dr. Ibram X. Kendi .
Stay with us .
AMY GOODMAN : “ Black Panther ” by Kendrick Lamar from the soundtrack to the superhero movie Black Panther .
This is Democracy Now !
, Democracynow.org , the Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Chadwick Boseman , the world-renowned actor known @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 2018 blockbuster hit Black Panther died on Friday at the age of 43 after a private four-year battle with colon cancer .
News of his passing shocked the public and sparked a wave of tributes to the man who played Jackie Robinson , the first black athlete to play Major League Baseball ; Thurgood Marshall , the first black justice on the U.S. Supreme Court ; and of course superhero King T ’ Challa , all while being treated for cancer .
A statement shared on Chadwick Boseman ’ s Twitter said , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ through it all , and brought you many of the films you have come to love so much .
From Marshall to Da 5 Bloods , August Wilson ’ s Ma Rainey ’ s Black Bottom and several more , all were filmed during and between countless surgeries and chemotherapy .
It was the honor of his career to bring King T ’ Challa to life in Black Panther.
” Twitter announced the post was the , quote , “ Most liked Tweet ever .
A tribute fit for a King .
# @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the highest-grossing movies of all time , earning more than $ 1.3 billion around the world .
It has been called a defining moment for black America , as the first superhero movie with a majority black cast and an African lead character .
This is a clip from the trailer of Black Panther .
AMY GOODMAN : Part of the trailer for Black Panther starring Chadwick Boseman .
In 2018 , Boseman returned to his alma mater , the historically black college Howard University , to give the 2018 commencement address .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ was fighting for his life .
Very few people knew this at the time .
According to the American Cancer Society , rates of colon cancer are higher among black people , who are 40 % more likely to die from the disease due to later diagnosis and systemic racism .
For more , we go to Boston , Massachusetts , where we are joined by the antiracist scholar Dr. Ibram X Kendi who himself has battled colon cancer and on Friday celebrated two years of being cancer-free .
He tweeted Friday , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , “ I see August 28th as my second birthday.
” Ibram X Kendi is founding director of the BU Center for Antiracist Research , contributing writer at The Atlantic and the author of many books , including Stamped from the Beginning : The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America , How to Be an Antiracist and most recently the children ’ s book Antiracist Baby .
Dr. Kendi , welcome back to Democracy Now !
On Friday , I was so thrilled to see your tweet .
I mean , this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on Washington , which , by the way , that date was chosen because back in 1955 , it was the day Emmett Till was killed .
But I was so thrilled to see you talking about this amazing moment for yourself , two years ago .
Talk about what happened and then the end of that night , learning the news about Chadwick Boseman .
IBRAM X. KENDI : August 28th is always going to be a second birthday for me .
Two years ago , I went under the knife literally @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , like many people who have stage four colon cancer or other forms of cancer , whether that surgery would begin the beginning of my survival or whether they would find something that they didn ’ t expect .
I didn ’ t know what was going to happen .
But fortunately , the surgery was successful .
Fortunately , the surgeons did not actually see any more cancer .
Fortunately , the pathologist when they took out—I should say when they studied what the surgeons took out , they didn ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it was really the beginning of my survival .
And so I went to bed early as I normally do .
And I woke up in the middle of the night to the news that Chadwick had passed .
And at first I thought it was a nightmare .
Like many people , I was shocked .
And then of course I came to see that it was real .
And then I saw that he died of colon cancer .
And my first thought was , why him ?
Why not me @ @ @ @ @ @ @ It was crushing because of how much he had given the world , how much I adored him .
It was crushing because I know how beloved he was and still is .
And it still is crushing .
AMY GOODMAN : Ibram , can you talk about the racial disparities in healthcare ?
Well known by many for so long in this country , but particularly focused on now as a result of the pandemic , the number of African Americans , followed by Latinx people , the percentages so disproportionate to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of COVID , not to mention cancer .
You write in How to Be an Antiracist , “ In the United States , African Americans are 25 % more likely to die of cancer than whites .
My father survived prostate cancer , which kills twice as many black men as it does white men .
Breast cancer disproportionately kills black women.
” If you can talk further about this ?
IBRAM X. KENDI : So yeah , I ’ ve had stage 4 colon cancer .
My wife has had breast cancer @ @ @ @ @ @ @ My father has had cancer .
My grandfather died of cancer .
I have an uncle who died of cancer .
And cancer , like heart disease , there ’ s all sorts of racial disparities , just as there are with COVID-19 deaths .
And we literally have , and have had for some time , people dying quietly , really an epidemic of death , as a result of racial health disparities .
And then we have an epidemic of people blaming those people , blaming those black people , blaming @ @ @ @ @ @ @ rates , as opposed to thinking about our system , as opposed to thinking about what policies can we change , as opposed to thinking about why is it that black people , black men in particular , die at higher rates from colon cancer because we are more likely to be diagnosed at a later stage ?
What is happening in our society that is causing so much black death ?
Why is black death so normal ?
How can people allow black people to continue to die of police violence , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ out , year in and year out , and not be outraged ?
And that ’ s why so many people are outraged and demonstrating on the streets and have been demonstrating for months .
And they will be demonstrating for years until this country takes black life seriously .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to go—before we talk about what is happening in Kenosha , the police shooting of Jacob Blake , what is happening in Portland , what is happening throughout this country , the issue of white supremacy and President @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of Chadwick Boseman in Black Panther and what Black Panther meant for so many , not only in this country , but around the world .
IBRAM X. KENDI : I don ’ t even know if I can even—as you know , Amy , I don ’ t even know if it can even be described in words what Black Panther meant , what T ’ Challa meant , what many of those incredible characters meant , what Wakanda meant , what Wakanda still means to black people .
And particularly those @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be antiracist , those of us who are knowledgeable about precolonial West African empires , those of us who know that the reason why there is so much poverty , for instance , in Africa is not because there ’ s something wrong with African people .
That if not for colonialism , if not for the slave trade , there may be a Wakanda .
And I think that black people I think in the United States and all over the world , for them to see themselves in greatness and in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ affirmed , I think was just incredible .
I remember seeing Black Panther when I was going through chemotherapy .
I had been diagnosed weeks before the film came out .
And like other black people who went to see the film and just as nonblack people , it gave me the ability to really step outside of myself , step outside of my world and imagine what ’ s possible .
And there is nothing more radical and critical to transforming the world than a radical imagination .
Of thinking about what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ gave that to so many people .
AMY GOODMAN : I wanted to go to another clip from Black Panther .
Princess Shuri is the little sister of King T ’ Challa , the king of Wakanda .
She ’ s also the chief technology officer responsible for creating much of Wakanda ’ s tech innovations .
In this scene , she is driving a car remotely from Wakanda that Black Panther is riding in South Korea as he ’ s being chased .
AMY GOODMAN : That ’ s Princess Shuri .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ the role of women in Black Panther ?
She ’ s the chief technology officer .
And also the idea of not using any resources , natural resources , in of course the great film director Ryan Coogler ’ s film , for war , like their vibranium .
The idea of what a country would look like if they did not pour their money into weapons .
IBRAM X. KENDI : As a father , as a girl dad , the portrayal of women in Black Panther is almost certainly what I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ technology officer to even the baddest person on the film , who to me was the general , who was my favorite character and certainly my wife ’ s favorite character .
But then also , I just want to again emphasize that this is possible .
We currently have a tech industry where women and particularly women of color are far and away underrepresented or imagine that it ’ s not their place or imagine that they don ’ t have the intellectual capacity .
And these are all sexist and racist @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of color , can be the chief technology officer of the baddest place , I should say the most technologically advanced sort of companies or places on earth .
That ’ s possible , if we can create that type of sort of society .
AMY GOODMAN : So it is astounding that Chadwick Boseman did not only Black Panther , and Ryan Coogler wrote about this in his post this weekend , saying he himself , the director of Black Panther did not know about Chad ’ s personal battle with colon @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to Chadwick Boseman after his passing .
In it he writes , “ Chad was an anomaly .
He was calm .
Assured .
Constantly studying .
But also kind , comforting , had the warmest laugh in the world , and eyes that seen much beyond his years , but could still sparkle like a child seeing something for the first time .
It is with a heavy heart and a sense of deep gratitude to have ever been in his presence , that I have to reckon with the fact that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I know that he will watch over us , until we meet again.
” The words of Ryan Coogler .
Now , in the film Black Panther they actually speak Xhosa , the South African language .
And your middle name , Professor Ibram X. Kendi , is Xhosa .
Is that right ?
IBRAM X. KENDI : Yes , Xolani .
Yes .
And I am actually—I ’ m at the same time shocked that Chadwick was able to still continue his craft , particularly because it is so physically demanding on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ time , I ’ m not shocked .
I know that when I was diagnosed with colon cancer , I was in the middle of writing How to Be an Antiracist , and all I could think of was I wanted to do this before I died .
I wanted to leave this legacy .
I wanted to leave this critically important book for people .
So I was really thinking about ensuring that I finish this before I passed away .
And I wonder if that is what he was thinking , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as much as he could to the world because he knew his time was short .
And it did not matter how uncomfortable it was .
It didn ’ t matter how hard it was .
It didn ’ t matter how painful it was to get out of bed .
He was thinking about what he wanted to provide for the world .
And it really just shows me his level of courage .
It shows me his level of commitment .
And it really shows me how much he loved humanity @ @ @ @ @ @ @ during his last few years .
AMY GOODMAN : LA Lakers star Lebron James paid tribute to Chadwick Boseman before the Lakers playoff game against the Portland Trailblazers by taking a knee during the National Anthem and crossing his arms across his chest to give the Wakanda Forever salute .
This is Lebron James speaking Sunday about Chadwick Boseman .
AMY GOODMAN : So that ’ s Lebron James .
I also went to add , of course , if you could talk about Wakanda being a country , what an African country @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
IBRAM X. KENDI : And it ’ s fascinating because that is possible .
And certainly , before colonization , some of the greatest and most powerful and wealthiest and most technologically and intellectually advanced empires in the world were in Africa , from Ghana , Mali and Songhai .
I remember over the weekend when I think it was Forbes magazine stated that Jeff Bezos was the richest men that ever lived , and a lot of people corrected him and said , “ No , actually , Mansa Musa , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was reportedly even wealthier than Jeff Bezos.
” But indeed , Mansa Musa gave away a lot of his wealth .
He actually traveled on this massive pilgrimage to Egypt and he gave away so much gold in Egypt , he literally destroyed the economy .
But people don ’ t know these stories .
We ’ re not taught about precolonial West Africa .
We ’ re not even taught about Africa today !
I remember going to Africa for the first time and people asking me the weirdest questions about Africa @ @ @ @ @ @ @ me how little we are taught about Africa and how much we are taught about Europe .
And either we are a multicultural nation with people who come from Africa and Latin America and Asia and Europe and we are going to really teach our children and teach our adults about all these different places , just as we are teaching them about Native American history and culture , or we ’ re are going to focus on Europe .
And I don ’ t think we should focus on Europe because that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
AMY GOODMAN : I wanted to talk about Jackie Robinson and the film 42 .
Major League Baseball celebrated Jackie Robinson Day Friday , August 28th .
It was on that day in 1945 , before the March on Washington on August 28th , 1963 , before Emmett Till was murdered August 28 , 1955 , that the baseball executive Branch Rickey met with Jackie Robinson and signed him to a contract with the minor leagues .
Two years later , he would become the first black player in Major League Baseball @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
That ’ s why in the midst of the protests this week for Jacob Blake , the New York Mets and Miami Marlins stood for 42 seconds on the field Thursday , then left without playing the game , leaving behind one Black Lives Matter t-shirt on home plate .
Well , Chadwick Boseman passed away on August 28th , the day Major League Baseball celebrated Jackie Robinson , the legend that Boseman played in his breakout role in the 2013 film 42 .
This is a clip .
AMY GOODMAN : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 42 .
Before we take on James Brown , and then we ’ re going to talk about what ’ s happening in this country .
Of course , it is all related .
The history is integral to what is happening now .
The role of major league athletes from the WBNA , the women ’ s basketball league , to the NBA , to football players to , what , the baseball league , MLB , which is now down to 10 % African American , still across the board recognizing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Their significance this week and beyond , professor Kendi ?
IBRAM X. KENDI : Well , to compare this to Chadwick and even Jackie Robinson and even T ’ Challa , for many people , particularly many young people , they see professional athletes , men and women , as superheroes , as heroes , as their heroes .
So to see those heroes , to see those superheroes demonstrate against racism , speak out against police brutality , decide that , “ No , we ’ re human , too ; we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are suffering , too ; we are outraged , too ; and we wan ’ t justice , too , so we can ’ t play tonight ; we can ’ t play today ” —I think was galvanizing for so many people and affirming for so many people .
AMY GOODMAN : Now I wanted to go to the 2014 film Get On Up in which Chadwick Boseman plays James Brown , known as the Godfather of Soul .
IBRAM X. KENDI : I of course came to know Chadwick ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , but I actually really loved his portrayal of James Brown .
And I don ’ t know whether it is I ’ m a student of the Black Power movement or I don ’ t know whether it is because James Brown was such a fascinating , complex sort of historical character , or whether that James Brown and particularly his song “ Say it Loud , I ’ m Black and I ’ m Proud ” was in many ways as galvanizing for black people and as beloved by black people @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
But there was something about that film .
And I just think it ’ s critically important for people to not sort of make it seem as if Chadwick only did Black Panther because he was incredible in several other films .
And more importantly , he played these incredible sort of characters and these complex characters and these black men in particular who triumphed over so much adversity during extremely difficult times .
So I can then see how he personally could triumph over his cancer to be able to play @ @ @ @ @ @ @ We ’ re going to break and then come back to what is happening today .
Of course , Chadwick Boseman also played Thurgood Marshall , the first African-American Supreme Court justice .
We are speaking with Ibram X. Kendi , the Andrew W. Mellon Professor in the Humanities at Boston University , BU , the founding director of the BU Center for Antiracist Research .
This is Democracy Now !
President Trump promises to go to Kenosha , Wisconsin , tomorrow .
The governor , the lieutenant governor , are pleading with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
Chadwick Boseman, the world-renowned actor, known best for his groundbreaking role in the 2018 blockbuster hit Black Panther, died on Friday at the age of 43 after a private four-year battle with colon cancer. News of his passing shocked the public and sparked a wave of tributes to the man who played Jackie Robinson, the first Black athlete to play Major League Baseball; Thurgood Marshall, the first Black justice on the U.S. Supreme Court; and, of course, superhero King T’Challa – all while being treated for cancer.
A statement shared on Chadwick Boseman’s Twitter said, quote, “A true fighter, Chadwick persevered through it all, and brought you many of the films you have come to love so much. From Marshall to Da 5 Bloods, August Wilson’s Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom and several more, all were filmed during and between countless surgeries and chemotherapy. It was the honor of his career to bring King T’Challa to life in Black Panther.” Twitter announced the post was the, quote, “Most liked Tweet ever. A tribute fit for a King. #WakandaForever.”
Black Panther is one of the highest-grossing movies of all time, earning more than $1.3 billion around the world. It’s been called a defining moment for Black America as the first superhero movie with a majority Black cast and an African lead character. This is a clip from the trailer of Black Panther.
ULYSSES KLAUE: [played by Andy Serkis] Tell me something. What do you know about Wakanda?
EVERETT K. ROSS: [played by Martin Freeman] It’s a Third World country — textiles, shepherds, cool outfits.
ULYSSES KLAUE: All a front. Explorers have searched for it, called it El Dorado. They looked for it in South America. But it was in Africa the whole time. I’m the only one who’s seen it and made it out alive. Dude, I can see you!
W’KABI: [played by Daniel Kaluuya] The world is changing. Soon, there will only be the conquered and the conquerors. You are a good man with a good heart. And it’s hard for a good man to be a king.
AMY GOODMAN: Part of the trailer for Black Panther, starring Chadwick Boseman. In 2018, Boseman returned to his alma mater, the historically Black college Howard University, to give the 2018 commencement address.
CHADWICK BOSEMAN: I stand here today knowing that my Howard University education prepared me to play Jackie Robinson, James Brown, Thurgood Marshall and T’Challa. But what do you do when the principles and standards that were instilled in you here at Howard close the doors in front of you? Sometimes you need to get knocked down before you can really figure out what your fight is and how you need to fight it.
AMY GOODMAN: Boseman spoke as he was fighting for his life. Very few people knew this at the time. According to the American Cancer Society, rates of colon cancer are higher among Black people, who are 40% more likely to die from the disease due to later diagnosis and systemic racism.
For more, we go to Boston, Massachusetts, where we’re joined by the antiracist scholar Dr. Ibram X. Kendi, who himself has battled colon cancer and on Friday celebrated two years of being cancer-free. He tweeted Friday, the anniversary of his operation for cancer, quote, “I see August 28th as my second birthday.” Ibram X. Kendi is founding director of the BU Center for Antiracist Research, contributing writer at The Atlantic and the author of many books, including Stamped from the Beginning: The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America, How to Be an Antiracist and, most recently, the children’s book Antiracist Baby.
Dr. Kendi, welcome back to Democracy Now! On Friday, I was so thrilled to see your tweet. I mean, this was the 57th anniversary of the March on Washington, which, by the way, that date was chosen because, back in 1955, it was the day Emmett Till was killed. But I was so thrilled to see you talking about this amazing moment for yourself, two years ago. Talk about what happened, and then, the end of that night, learning the news about Chadwick Boseman.
IBRAM X. KENDI: Yeah. I mean, August 28th is always going to be a second birthday for me. Two years ago, I went under the knife, literally, all day long, not knowing, like many people who have stage IV colon cancer or other forms of cancer, whether that surgery would begin the beginning of my survival or whether they would find something that they didn’t expect. I didn’t know what was going to happen. But fortunately, the surgery was successful. Fortunately, the surgeons did not actually see any more cancer. Fortunately, the pathologist, when they took out — I should say, when they studied what the surgeons took out, they didn’t see any cancer cells. And so it was really the beginning of my survival.
And so, I went to bed early, as I normally do. And I woke up in the middle of the night to the news that Chadwick had passed. And at first I thought it was a nightmare. I mean, you know, like many people, I was shocked. And then, of course, I came to see that it was real. And then I saw that he died of colon cancer. And my first thought was “Why him? You know, why not me?” And it was really — I mean, it was crushing. It was crushing because of how much he had given the world, how much I adored him. It was crushing because I know how beloved he was and still is. And it still is crushing.
AMY GOODMAN: Ibram, can you talk about the racial disparities in healthcare, well known by many for so long in this country, but particularly focused on now as a result of the pandemic, the number of African Americans, followed by Latinx people, the percentages so disproportionate to population in the United States who die of COVID, not to mention cancer? You write in How to Be an Antiracist, “In the United States, African Americans are 25 percent more likely to die of cancer than Whites. My father survived prostate cancer, which kills twice as many Black men as it does White men. Breast cancer disproportionately kills Black women.” If you can talk further about this?
IBRAM X. KENDI: So, yeah, I’ve had stage IV colon cancer. My wife has had breast cancer. My mother has had cancer. My father has had cancer. My grandfather died of cancer. I have an uncle who died of cancer. And cancer, like heart disease, there’s all sorts of racial disparities, just as there are with COVID-19 deaths. And we literally have, and have had for quite some time, people dying quietly, really an epidemic of death, as a result of racial health disparities.
And then we have an epidemic of people blaming those people, blaming those Black people, blaming those Brown people, for dying at higher rates, as opposed to thinking about our system, as opposed to thinking about what policies can we change, as opposed to thinking about why is it that Black people, Black men in particular, die at higher rates from colon cancer because we’re more likely to be diagnosed at a later stage. What is happening in our society that is causing so much Black death? Why is Black death so normal? How can people allow Black people to continue to die of police violence, die of cancer, day in and day out, year in and year out, and not be outraged?
And that’s why so many people are outraged and demonstrating on the streets and have been demonstrating for months. And they’ll be demonstrating for years, until this country takes Black life seriously.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to go, before we talk about what’s happening in Kenosha, the police shooting of Jacob Blake, what’s happening in Portland, what’s happening throughout this country, the issue of white supremacy and President Trump — I want to go to the significance of Chadwick Boseman in Black Panther and what Black Panther meant for so many, not only in this country, but around the world.
IBRAM X. KENDI: I don’t even know if I can even — as you know, Amy, I don’t even know if it can even be described in words what Black Panther meant, what T’Challa meant, what many of those incredible characters meant, what Wakanda meant, what Wakanda still means to Black people, and particularly those of us who are really striving to be antiracist, those of us who are knowledgeable about precolonial West African empires, those of us who know that the reason why there’s so much poverty, for instance, in Africa is not because there’s something wrong with African people, that if not for colonialism, if not for the slave trade, there may be a Wakanda.
And I think that Black people, I think, in the United States and all over the world, for them to see themselves in greatness and in excellence, for them to see themselves affirmed, you know, I think was just incredible. And I remember seeing Black Panther when I was going through chemotherapy. I had been diagnosed weeks before the film came out. And like other Black people who went to see the film and just as non-Black people, it gave me the ability to really step outside of myself, step outside of my world and imagine what’s possible. And there’s nothing more radical and critical to transforming the world than a radical imagination, of thinking about what is possible. And I think Black Panther gave that to so many people.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go to another clip from Black Panther. Princess Shuri is the little sister of King T’Challa, the king of Wakanda. She’s also the chief technology officer responsible for creating much of Wakanda’s tech innovations. In this scene, she’s driving a car remotely from Wakanda that Black Panther is riding in South Korea as he’s being chased.
T’CHALLA: [played by Chadwick Boseman] Shuri!
SHURI: [played by Letitia Wright] Yes! Yes! Yes!
COMPUTER: Remote driving system activated.
SHURI: Wait. Which side of the road is it?
T’CHALLA: For Bast’s sake, just drive!
SHURI: OK, calm down. Woo! Let’s go! Hey, look at your suit. You’ve been taking bullets, charging it up with kinetic energy.
T’CHALLA: Pull around the truck.
DRIVER: Where’d he go?
SHURI: Show-off.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Princess Shuri. And if you can talk also about the role of women in Black Panther — she’s the chief technology officer — and also the idea of not using any resources, natural resources, in, of course, the great film director Ryan Coogler’s film, for war, like their vibranium, the idea of what a country would look like if they did not pour their money into weapons?
IBRAM X. KENDI: So, yeah. I mean, as a father, as a girl dad, the portrayal of women in Black Panther is almost certainly what I admired the most, from the chief technology officer to even the baddest person on the film, who to me was the general, and so — who was my favorite character and certainly my wife’s favorite character.
But then, also, I just want to again emphasize that this is possible. We currently have a tech industry where women, and particularly women of color, are far and away underrepresented or imagine that it’s not their place or imagine that they don’t have the intellectual capacity. And these are all sexist and racist lies. And women, and particularly women of color, can be the chief technology officer of the baddest place, I should say, the most technologically advanced sort of companies or places on Earth. That’s possible, if we can create that type of sort of society.
AMY GOODMAN: So, it is astounding that Chadwick Boseman did not only Black Panther, and Ryan Coogler wrote about this in his post this weekend, saying he himself, the director of Black Panther, did not know about Chad’s personal battle with colon cancer. He wrote a moving tribute to Chadwick Boseman after his passing. In it, he writes, “Chad was an anomaly. He was calm. Assured. Constantly studying. But also kind, comforting, had the warmest laugh in the world, and eyes that seen much beyond his years, but could still sparkle like a child seeing something for the first time. It is with a heavy heart and a sense of deep gratitude to have ever been in his presence, that I have to reckon with the fact that Chad is an ancestor now. And I know that he will watch over us, until we meet again.” The words of Ryan Coogler. Now, in the film Black Panther, they actually speak Xhosa, the South African language. And your middle name, Professor Ibram X. Kendi, is Xhosa. Is that right?
IBRAM X. KENDI: Yes, Xolani. Yes. And I’m actually — I’m at the same time shocked that Chadwick was able to still continue his craft, particularly because it’s so physically demanding on the body. But at the same time, you know, I’m not shocked. And I know that when I was diagnosed with colon cancer, I was in the middle of writing How to Be an Antiracist, and all I can think of was I wanted to do this before I died. I wanted to leave this legacy. I wanted to leave this critically important book for people. And so I was really thinking about ensuring that I finish this before I passed away.
And I wonder if that’s what he was thinking, too, that he wanted to give as much as he could to the world because he knew his time was short. And it did not matter how uncomfortable it was. It didn’t matter how hard it was. It didn’t matter how painful it was to get out of bed. You know, he was thinking about what he wanted to provide for the world. And it really just shows me his level of courage. It shows me his level of commitment. And it really shows me how much he loved humanity that he gave so much to us during his last few years.
AMY GOODMAN: L.A. Lakers star LeBron James paid tribute to Chadwick Boseman before the Lakers’ playoff game against the Portland Trailblazers by taking a knee during the national anthem and crossing his arms across his chest to give the “Wakanda forever” salute. This is LeBron James speaking Sunday about Chadwick Boseman.
LEBRON JAMES: We’re already limited in the sense that, you know, given that type of power, that type of stage that he had, and especially in that industry, you don’t see many Black male and female actors being able to put on that stage, and for him to be as transcendent as he was. … But then you add on the fact that growing up as a Black kid, you had superheroes that you looked up to, but they weren’t Black. You know, you had Batman, you had Superman, you had Spider-Man, and so on and so on. And for Ryan Coogler and for that cast, and for him himself to be able to make Black Panther, that even though we knew it was like a fictional story, it actually felt real. It actually felt like we finally had our Black superhero, and nobody can touch us.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s LeBron James. I also went to add, of course — if you could talk about Wakanda being a country, what an African country looks like that’s not colonized?
IBRAM X. KENDI: And it’s fascinating, because that is possible. And certainly, before colonization, some of the greatest and most powerful and wealthiest and most technologically and intellectually advanced empires in the world were in Africa, you know, from Ghana, Mali and Songhai. I remember over the weekend when, I think it was, Forbes magazine stated that Jeff Bezos was the richest men that ever lived, and a lot of people corrected them and said, “No, actually, Mansa Musa, who was the king of Mali, was reportedly even wealthier than Jeff Bezos.” But indeed, Mansa Musa gave away a lot of his wealth. He actually traveled on this massive pilgrimage to Egypt, and he gave away so much gold in Egypt, he literally destroyed the economy.
But people don’t know these stories. Right? We’re not taught about precolonial West Africa. We’re not even taught about Africa today. You know, I remember going to Africa for the first time and people asking me the weirdest questions about Africa. And it just goes to show me how little we’re taught about Africa and how much we’re taught about Europe. And either we’re a multicultural nation with people who come from Africa and Latin America and Asia and Europe, and we’re going to really teach our children and teach our adults about all these different places, just as we’re teaching them about Native American history and culture, or we’re are going to focus on Europe. And I don’t think we should focus on Europe, because that’s a demonstration, to me, of racism.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to talk about Jackie Robinson and the film 42. Major League Baseball celebrated Jackie Robinson Day Friday, August 28th. It was on that day in 1945, before the March on Washington, on August 28th, 1963, before Emmett Till was murdered August 28th, 1955, that the baseball executive Branch Rickey met with Jackie Robinson and signed him to a contract with the minor leagues. Two years later, he would become the first Black player in Major League Baseball, where he wore jersey number 42. That’s why in the midst of the protests this week for Jacob Blake, the New York Mets and Miami Marlins stood for 42 seconds on the field Thursday, then left without playing the game, leaving behind one Black Lives Matter T-shirt on home plate. Well, Chadwick Boseman passed away on August 28th, the day Major League Baseball celebrated Jackie Robinson, the legend that Boseman played in his breakout role in the 2013 film 42. This is a clip.
JACKIE ROBINSON: [played by Chadwick Boseman] Give me a uniform, give me a number on my back, and I’ll give you the guts.
I’m just a ball player.
MR. BROCK: [played by James Pickens Jr.] You’re a hero.
BEN CHAPMAN: [played by Alan Tudyk] Why don’t you look in the mirror? This is a white man’s game.
JACKIE ROBINSON: I’m not going anywhere! I’m right here!
PEE WEE REESE: [played by Lucas Black] Maybe tomorrow we’ll all wear 42.
AMY GOODMAN: And everyone should watch Chadwick Boseman in 42. Before we take on James Brown, and then we’re going to talk about what’s happening in this country — of course, it’s all related. The history is integral to what’s happening now. The role of major league athletes, from the WNBA, the women’s basketball league, to the NBA, to football players to, what, the baseball league, MLB, which is now down to 10% African American, still, across the board, recognizing that they have to speak up. Their significance this week and beyond, Professor Kendi?
IBRAM X. KENDI: Well, I mean, to compare this to Chadwick and even Jackie Robinson and even T’Challa, for many people, particularly many young people, they see professional athletes, men and women, as superheroes, as heroes, as their heroes. And so, to see those heroes, to see those superheroes demonstrate against racism, speak out against police brutality, decide that, “No, we’re human, too; we’re in pain, too; we’re suffering, too; we’re outraged, too; and we want justice, too. So we can’t play tonight. We can’t play today,” I think, was just galvanizing for so many people and affirming for so many people.
AMY GOODMAN: Now I wanted to go to the 2014 film Get On Up in which Chadwick Boseman plays James Brown, known as the Godfather of Soul.
JAMES BROWN: [played by Chadwick Boseman] I got you! When I hit that stage, you people better be ready, especially the white folk. Hit it!
BOBBY BYRD: [played by Nelsan Ellis] Every man in this band walk taller because they’re with James Brown.
JAMES BROWN: Are we done, Mr. Byrd?
BOBBY BYRD: I’m afraid not, Mr. Brown.
JAMES BROWN: I said, “Are we done?”
BOBBY BYRD: I think we got more funk in the trunk.
Open up your ears. The man’s a genius.
AMY GOODMAN: James Brown. Ibram Kendi?
IBRAM X. KENDI: Well, I mean, I, of course, came to know Chadwick’s work through his portrayal of Jackie Robinson, but I actually really loved his portrayal of James Brown. And I don’t know whether it’s because I’m a student of the Black Power movement, or I don’t know whether it’s because James Brown was such a fascinating, complex sort of historical character, or whether that James Brown and particularly his song “Say It Loud — I’m Black and I’m Proud” was in many ways as galvanizing for Black people and as beloved by Black people who loved themselves as Black Panther. But there was something about that film.
And I just think it’s critically important for people to not sort of make it seem as if Chadwick only did Black Panther, because he was incredible in several other films. And more importantly, he played these incredible sort of characters and these complex characters and these Black men, in particular, who triumphed over so much adversity during extremely difficult times. And so, I can then see how he personally could triumph over his cancer to be able to play those final roles.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to break and then come back to what’s happening today. Of course, Chadwick Boseman also played Thurgood Marshall, the first African American Supreme Court justice. We’re speaking with Ibram X. Kendi, the Andrew W. Mellon professor in the humanities at Boston University, BU, the founding director of the BU Center for Antiracist Research. This is Democracy Now! President Trump promises to go to Kenosha, Wisconsin, tomorrow. The governor, the lieutenant governor are pleading with him not to come. Stay with us.