democracynow--2020-11-12--Brazil: Trump Ally Bolsonaro Refuses to Acknowledge Biden Win & Downplays COVID as Death Toll Mounts

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : As President Donald Trump continues to refuse to accept President-elect Joe Biden ’ s victory in the 2020 presidential election , the White House has ordered agencies not to cooperate with Biden ’ s presidential transition team .
Joe Biden is not yet receiving daily intelligence briefings , five days after he was declared the winner .
At this point after Trump ’ s victory in 2016 , Trump was receiving those daily briefings .
The holdup hinges on the little-known-to-the-public General @ @ @ @ @ @ @ transition and has refused to sign the paperwork to do so .
Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma said Wednesday he will intervene if Biden is not receiving the briefings by Friday .
This comes as the State Department is refusing to pass on messages to Biden from world leaders , and Biden ’ s transition team is coordinating Biden ’ s calls without State Department support .
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has refused to acknowledge Biden ’ s win and said there would be a “ smooth transition to a second @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ll get response to the historic U.S. election from around the world , from Brazil to South Africa , from Turkey to United Kingdom .
First , we go to Brazil , where staunch Trump ally President Jair Bolsonaro has not acknowledged Biden ’ s victory .
On Tuesday , as Brazil ’ s COVID death toll passed 162,000 , second only to the United States , Bolsonaro again downplayed the virus and attacked concerned Brazilians , using an offensive term for the LGBTQ community .
AMY GOODMAN : The word Bolsonaro actually @ @ @ @ @ @ @ one that we translated here .
Well , for more , we ’ re joined by Maria Luísa Mendonça .
She is director of the Network for Social Justice and Human Rights in Brazil , a visiting scholar at the City University of New York Graduate Center .
Maria Luísa , welcome back to Democracy Now !
If you can talk about the significance of the Biden victory and the close relationship between Jair Bolsonaro and President Trump , what the ending of that alliance can mean , and what Jair Bolsonaro is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ when it comes to COVID ?
MARIA LUÍSA MENDONÇA : Yes , that was a very important victory for Brazilians , because the progressive movements in Brazil can also be inspired by this election here .
It ’ s important to remember that the result of this election in the U.S. is because of the work of grassroots movements here that elected Biden .
And now Bolsonaro in Brazil is even more isolated .
And I think that he also plays this game of a fake nationalism when he defends that there should @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and the environmental destruction in the Amazon , in the Brazilian savanna , is increasing .
But that is a fake nationalism , because the fires and the destruction of the Amazon really benefits large multinational cooperations , mining , agribusiness , financial corporations .
So , I think that it ’ s important also for the social movements in the U.S. to make sure that Biden will have a different foreign policy in relation to Latin America , because we have to remember that Bolsonaro is actually a result of a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 2016 that opened the space for this far-right government .
So I think the U.S. can play a much more positive role in Latin America , and we need to hold the administration accountable now .
And I think — but , in general , there is a global far-right movement that Bolsonaro and Trump are part of .
And I think that the election here in the U.S. , the result of the election , will have a positive impact not just in the U.S. , but in other parts of the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ then , in terms of the — yes .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : No , please , go ahead .
MARIA LUÍSA MENDONÇA : Yeah , in terms of the coronavirus response , Trump and Bolsonaro have very similar policies .
They really don ’ t believe in science .
They don ’ t promote any type of protection .
They put the population at risk .
They don ’ t express any solidarity for the suffering of the millions of people who have been infected and so many people who have died .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ played down the vaccine .
You knoww , he is doing everything he can to postpone a vaccine in Brazil .
And Brazil actually has a very good infrastructure for mass vaccination .
Historically , the country always had very mass vaccination campaigns .
And Bolsonaro is even trying to avoid that , you know , the Brazilian science advance the implementation of the vaccine in Brazil .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Maria Luísa , can you talk a little bit more about that , the fact that Bolsonaro has just rejected a vaccine @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a vaccine from China , but Brazilian scientists have also been working on that vaccine .
Why did Bolsonaro do that ?
I mean , it doesn ’ t make any sense for Bolsonaro to be opposed to these vaccines , given especially the death toll in Brazil , second only to the U.S. Over 160,000 people have died now of COVID .
MARIA LUÍSA MENDONÇA : Yes , exactly .
Brazil has very good scientists that have a lot of experience with mass vaccination .
But that ’ s all ideological .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ based on xenophobia , racism and ignoring science .
And that , in a way , is similar to Trump , as well .
They both have promoted drugs that have no evidence of being effective for the treatment of coronavirus .
And , you know , he ’ s putting the Brazilian society at risk , because even ignoring the effects of a vaccine is something very extreme .
And that ’ s the result , of course , of the influence of the evangelical movement in his government .
And so @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
It ’ s just based on far-right ideology .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : And , Maria Luísa , could you say a little more about the relationship between Trump and Bolsonaro ?
I mean , not only has Bolsonaro not yet congratulated Biden , but his son , Eduardo Bolsonaro , wore a hat with the logo “ Trump 2020 ” leading up to the election .
And in the days following the election , as the vote count was happening here in the U.S. , he questioned publicly on social media how @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so quickly .
That ’ s a highly extraordinary move for someone in a foreign — in another government to make about internal elections elsewhere .
MARIA LUÍSA MENDONÇA : Yeah , this is also a very big change in terms of the tradition of foreign policy in Brazil .
Brazil has had a tradition of being independent , of not interfering in foreign affairs .
So , you know , the Brazilian diplomacy has had this tradition historically , and now this position of Bolsonaro and his sons of basically allying with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on whatever Trump talks about .
They have the same discourse .
And they also are part of this global organization that is — one of the leaders is Steve Bannon , for example .
So , the discourse is very similar between Bolsonaro and Trump .
The policies are very similar .
So , of course , there is a coordinating effort that is global to advance those views .
But that goes against the history of Brazilian foreign policy .
So , I think that now with a change in administration @ @ @ @ @ @ @ even influence perhaps the position of mainstream media in Brazil , that plays a key role also in manipulating information .
And so , you know , I think , hopefully , the decision here , whatever happens here , will have — with the Biden administration and if Biden really has a different type of policy for Latin America , that will have an impact and will advance progressive forces in Brazil , as well .
AMY GOODMAN : Very quickly , Maria Luísa , I wanted to play one more clip @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Joe Biden during an event on Tuesday .
Bolsonaro ’ s comments come after Biden criticized the far-right leader ’ s handling of deforestation in the Amazon .
AMY GOODMAN : So , that ’ s Bolsonaro saying “ there must be gunpowder.
” You know , as we watched in the western United States as the fires enveloped parts of California , Oregon and Washington , they ’ re actually dwarfed by the fires in the Amazon , the lungs of the world .
If you , in 30 seconds , can @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and what you think is most critical for Biden to do ?
MARIA LUÍSA MENDONÇA : Yeah , I think it ’ s very important for us to boycott four Brazilian commodities that are the main cause of deforestation and destruction — timber , sugar , soy and beef from Brazil — because these policies , the destruction of the Amazon , is really benefiting large agribusiness corporations , including U.S. agribusiness corporations .
So , it ’ s not about protecting the Brazilian society .
It ’ s protecting large agribusiness @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
So , we need to have solidarity , you know , the environmental movements in Brazil and here .
We need to build an international environmental movement and make sure that the world also can help Brazil by boycotting these four commodities .
AMY GOODMAN : Maria Luísa Mendonça , we want to thank you for being with us , director of the Network for Social Justice and Human Rights in Brazil .
When we come back , we ’ re going to Durban , South Africa , to speak with the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , Kumi Naidoo ; we ’ re going to Turkey ; and we ’ re going to Cambridge , England .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: As President Donald Trump continues to refuse to accept President-elect Joe Biden’s victory in the 2020 presidential election, the White House has ordered agencies not to cooperate with Biden’s presidential transition team. Joe Biden is not yet receiving daily intelligence briefings, five days after he was declared the winner. At this point after Trump’s victory in 2016, Trump was receiving those daily briefings. The holdup hinges on the little-known-to-the-public General Services Administration, which officially begins the transition and has refused to sign the paperwork to do so. Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma said Wednesday he will intervene if Biden is not receiving the briefings by Friday.
This comes as the State Department is refusing to pass on messages to Biden from world leaders, and Biden’s transition team is coordinating Biden’s calls without State Department support. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has refused to acknowledge Biden’s win and said there would be a “smooth transition to a second Trump administration.”
Today, we’ll get response to the historic U.S. election from around the world, from Brazil to South Africa, from Turkey to United Kingdom. First, we go to Brazil, where staunch Trump ally President Jair Bolsonaro has not acknowledged Biden’s victory. On Tuesday, as Brazil’s COVID death toll passed 162,000, second only to the United States, Bolsonaro again downplayed the virus and attacked concerned Brazilians, using an offensive term for the LGBTQ community.
PRESIDENT JAIR BOLSONARO: [translated] Everything now is the pandemic. We have to put a stop to that. I’m sorry for all those who have died. I’m sorry. All of us are going to die one day. Everyone is going to die. You are going to die one day. There is no point in escaping from that, escaping from reality. We have to stop being a country of sissies. I’m giving the press a full plate.
AMY GOODMAN: The word Bolsonaro actually used was far more derogatory than the one that we translated here.
Well, for more, we’re joined by Maria Luísa Mendonça. She is director of the Network for Social Justice and Human Rights in Brazil, a visiting scholar at the City University of New York Graduate Center.
Maria Luísa, welcome back to Democracy Now! If you can talk about the significance of the Biden victory and the close relationship between Jair Bolsonaro and President Trump, what the ending of that alliance can mean, and what Jair Bolsonaro is doing right now in Brazil, especially when it comes to COVID?
MARIA LUÍSA MENDONÇA: Yes, that was a very important victory for Brazilians, because the progressive movements in Brazil can also be inspired by this election here. It’s important to remember that the result of this election in the U.S. is because of the work of grassroots movements here that elected Biden.
And now Bolsonaro in Brazil is even more isolated. And I think that he also plays this game of a fake nationalism when he defends that there should be no regulation, no environmental regulation, and the environmental destruction in the Amazon, in the Brazilian savanna, is increasing. But that is a fake nationalism, because the fires and the destruction of the Amazon really benefits large multinational cooperations, mining, agribusiness, financial corporations.
So, I think that it’s important also for the social movements in the U.S. to make sure that Biden will have a different foreign policy in relation to Latin America, because we have to remember that Bolsonaro is actually a result of a parliamentary coup against President Dilma Rousseff in 2016 that opened the space for this far-right government. So I think the U.S. can play a much more positive role in Latin America, and we need to hold the administration accountable now.
And I think — but, in general, there is a global far-right movement that Bolsonaro and Trump are part of. And I think that the election here in the U.S., the result of the election, will have a positive impact not just in the U.S., but in other parts of the world.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Maria —
MARIA LUÍSA MENDONÇA: And then, in terms of the — yes.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: No, please, go ahead.
MARIA LUÍSA MENDONÇA: Yeah, in terms of the coronavirus response, Trump and Bolsonaro have very similar policies. They really don’t believe in science. They don’t promote any type of protection. They put the population at risk. They don’t express any solidarity for the suffering of the millions of people who have been infected and so many people who have died.
So, also, Bolsonaro even has played down the vaccine. You knoww, he is doing everything he can to postpone a vaccine in Brazil. And Brazil actually has a very good infrastructure for mass vaccination. Historically, the country always had very mass vaccination campaigns. And Bolsonaro is even trying to avoid that, you know, the Brazilian science advance the implementation of the vaccine in Brazil.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Maria Luísa, can you talk a little bit more about that, the fact that Bolsonaro has just rejected a vaccine that Brazilian scientists — it’s a vaccine from China, but Brazilian scientists have also been working on that vaccine. Why did Bolsonaro do that? I mean, it doesn’t make any sense for Bolsonaro to be opposed to these vaccines, given especially the death toll in Brazil, second only to the U.S. Over 160,000 people have died now of COVID.
MARIA LUÍSA MENDONÇA: Yes, exactly. Brazil has very good scientists that have a lot of experience with mass vaccination. But that’s all ideological. You know, the Bolsonaro position is based on xenophobia, racism and ignoring science. And that, in a way, is similar to Trump, as well. They both have promoted drugs that have no evidence of being effective for the treatment of coronavirus. And, you know, he’s putting the Brazilian society at risk, because even ignoring the effects of a vaccine is something very extreme. And that’s the result, of course, of the influence of the evangelical movement in his government. And so, this is not based on science. It’s just based on far-right ideology.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Maria Luísa, could you say a little more about the relationship between Trump and Bolsonaro? I mean, not only has Bolsonaro not yet congratulated Biden, but his son, Eduardo Bolsonaro, wore a hat with the logo “Trump 2020” leading up to the election. And in the days following the election, as the vote count was happening here in the U.S., he questioned publicly on social media how Biden’s votes were going up so quickly. That’s a highly extraordinary move for someone in a foreign — in another government to make about internal elections elsewhere.
MARIA LUÍSA MENDONÇA: Yeah, this is also a very big change in terms of the tradition of foreign policy in Brazil. Brazil has had a tradition of being independent, of not interfering in foreign affairs. So, you know, the Brazilian diplomacy has had this tradition historically, and now this position of Bolsonaro and his sons of basically allying with Trump and making Brazil be so dependent on whatever Trump talks about. They have the same discourse. And they also are part of this global organization that is — one of the leaders is Steve Bannon, for example. So, the discourse is very similar between Bolsonaro and Trump. The policies are very similar. So, of course, there is a coordinating effort that is global to advance those views. But that goes against the history of Brazilian foreign policy.
So, I think that now with a change in administration here in the U.S., that can even influence perhaps the position of mainstream media in Brazil, that plays a key role also in manipulating information. And so, you know, I think, hopefully, the decision here, whatever happens here, will have — with the Biden administration and if Biden really has a different type of policy for Latin America, that will have an impact and will advance progressive forces in Brazil, as well.
AMY GOODMAN: Very quickly, Maria Luísa, I wanted to play one more clip of the Brazilian president indirectly swiping at Joe Biden during an event on Tuesday. Bolsonaro’s comments come after Biden criticized the far-right leader’s handling of deforestation in the Amazon.
PRESIDENT JAIR BOLSONARO: [translated] I recently heard a presidential candidate from a country say that if I don’t put out the fire in the Amazon, he is going to raise trade barriers against Brazil. How do we deal with all of that? Diplomacy is not enough. When there is no more saliva, then there must be gunpowder. But they have to know that we own the Amazon. That’s what the world is like. Nobody has what we have.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s Bolsonaro saying “there must be gunpowder.” You know, as we watched in the western United States as the fires enveloped parts of California, Oregon and Washington, they’re actually dwarfed by the fires in the Amazon, the lungs of the world. If you, in 30 seconds, can talk about what he is getting at, and what you think is most critical for Biden to do?
MARIA LUÍSA MENDONÇA: Yeah, I think it’s very important for us to boycott four Brazilian commodities that are the main cause of deforestation and destruction — timber, sugar, soy and beef from Brazil — because these policies, the destruction of the Amazon, is really benefiting large agribusiness corporations, including U.S. agribusiness corporations. So, it’s not about protecting the Brazilian society. It’s protecting large agribusiness corporations, timber companies and mining companies. So, we need to have solidarity, you know, the environmental movements in Brazil and here. We need to build an international environmental movement and make sure that the world also can help Brazil by boycotting these four commodities.
AMY GOODMAN: Maria Luísa Mendonça, we want to thank you for being with us, director of the Network for Social Justice and Human Rights in Brazil.
When we come back, we’re going to Durban, South Africa, to speak with the former head of Greenpeace and Amnesty International, Kumi Naidoo; we’re going to Turkey; and we’re going to Cambridge, England. Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-11-12--Headlines for November 12, 2020

Headlines for November 12, 2020

The United States has set another world record for coronavirus cases , confirming more than 140,000 infections on Wednesday and over 1,400 deaths .
More than 65,000 people are hospitalized with COVID-19 around the U.S. — also a record — and doctors are warning they may have to begin rationing care as intensive care units fill to capacity .
Every state in the union is seeing COVID cases rise .
Here in New York , Governor Andrew Cuomo has ordered new limits on social gatherings in private homes and is ordering bars , restaurants and gyms to close by 10 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Mike DeWine told residents they can no longer congregate at weddings , funerals and banquets , and ordered tougher enforcement measures for his statewide mask mandate .
Gov .
Mike DeWine : “ When you ’ re going through hell , keep going .
And so , tonight , I ask you : Keep going .
Recommit to your individual efforts to stay safe , because what you do in your private lives affects everyone.
” Across the U.S. , hospitals and nursing homes are warning of an alarming shortage of masks , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
The Strategic National Stockpile reportedly has less than half of the 300 million N95 masks the Trump administration had said it would procure by winter .
Meanwhile , President Trump ’ s last public comments on the coronavirus came in a handful of tweets on Tuesday , when he proposed a conspiracy theory that drugmaker Pfizer waited to report positive news about its vaccine trial until after Election Day .

The United States has set another world record for coronavirus cases, confirming more than 140,000 infections on Wednesday and over 1,400 deaths. More than 65,000 people are hospitalized with COVID-19 around the U.S. — also a record — and doctors are warning they may have to begin rationing care as intensive care units fill to capacity. Every state in the union is seeing COVID cases rise.
Here in New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo has ordered new limits on social gatherings in private homes and is ordering bars, restaurants and gyms to close by 10 p.m. In Ohio, Republican Governor Mike DeWine told residents they can no longer congregate at weddings, funerals and banquets, and ordered tougher enforcement measures for his statewide mask mandate.
Gov. Mike DeWine: “When you’re going through hell, keep going. And so, tonight, I ask you: Keep going. Recommit to your individual efforts to stay safe, because what you do in your private lives affects everyone.”
Across the U.S., hospitals and nursing homes are warning of an alarming shortage of masks, surgical gowns and other personal protective equipment. The Strategic National Stockpile reportedly has less than half of the 300 million N95 masks the Trump administration had said it would procure by winter.
Meanwhile, President Trump’s last public comments on the coronavirus came in a handful of tweets on Tuesday, when he proposed a conspiracy theory that drugmaker Pfizer waited to report positive news about its vaccine trial until after Election Day.


democracynow--2020-11-13--Voting Activist Desmond Meade on Re-enfranchising People & Why "Ex-Felon" Is a Dehumanizing Label

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report , as we end today ’ s show in Florida .
AMY GOODMAN : That ’ s the sound of supporters cheering Desmond Meade as he came out of a polling place , where he voted for president for the first time in 30 years .
Desmond ’ s visit to the polls came after a years-long battle to restore the right to vote for an estimated 1.4 million people in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ their criminal records .
In 2018 , Desmond Meade led the successful fight for Amendment 4 , a measure to restore voting rights to people with nonviolent felonies who have fully completed their sentences .
The constitutional amendment overturned a Jim Crow-era law aimed at keeping African Americans from voting and was hailed as the biggest win for voting rights in decades .
But since its passage , Florida Republicans , led by the governor , Ron DeSantis , have fought to keep people from voting .
The Republican Senate passed a bill @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to repay all fines and fees to courts before their voting rights were restored , sparking a prolonged legal battle .
Hundreds of thousands of people in Florida remained disenfranchised during this election due to the modern-day poll tax , as many described it .
Despite this , tens of thousands of newly eligible voters returned to the polls .
For more on Amendment 4 ’ s impact on the election , the ongoing battle to re-enfranchise people , and his own election story , we go to Orlando , where we are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ president of the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition and chairman of the Floridians for a Fair Democracy .
He ’ s out with a new book .
It ’ s called Let My People Vote : My Battle to Restore the Civil Rights of Returning Citizens .
Welcome back to Democracy Now !
, Desmond Meade .
It ’ s great to have you with us .
Describe that moment when you walked into your polling place and cast your vote for president of the United States for the first time in 30 years @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of all , good morning , Amy .
It ’ s always great to see you .
And I can tell you that that moment was surreal .
You know , that was my first time voting for president .
And just the act of voting really gave me a deeper appreciation for what I was engaged in , you know , realizing the sacrifices that was made by my ancestors so I could have that opportunity , even taking with me the spirit of the over 700,000 returning citizens in Florida who @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the financial obstacles that our Florida Legislature had placed in front of them .
But , Amy , I could tell you , man , when I was in that act of voting , you know , just like previously even in the primary , I really had a deeper appreciation for the sacredness of the right to vote .
And even though there ’ s a lot of political things about voting , I realized that voting actually transcended partisan politics , even racial anxieties , because it took me to a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ but yet powerful .
It said that I am .
It said that I existed , that my voice matters .
Right ?
And it validated me and made me a complete American citizen .
And I think that that was something that felt so great that I just can ’ t help but want every American citizen to experience that feeling and understand that the right to vote is sacred and we should honor it by actually voting .
AMY GOODMAN : So , I remember going down to Melbourne , Florida @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Desmond .
And at the time , it was quite amazing , the level of organizing that had gone on for Amendment 4 , which would affect 1.4 million , as you call people “ returning citizens.
” And this just flew through .
It sailed through .
And it won by an overwhelming majority .
It was only after it was passed that the Republicans moved in on this , that Governor DeSantis — explain what happened and the demand that was made on people before they could vote , after they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : Amy , I think what we ’ ve seen is an example of the arrogance of politicians , you know , that they sat idly by for 150 years while this policy was in place in Florida , and didn ’ t lift a finger to change it .
But the people took matters into their own hands .
And then , once we passed — overwhelmingly passed — Amendment 4 , with a strong bipartisan support , people from all walks of life and all political persuasions — the people did @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of politicians that insisted that they insert themselves into this beautiful movement and determine the qualifications for people to be able to register to vote .
And they laid out a series of financial obligations that a person must pay before they ’ re even able to register .
Our ensuing lawsuit , by the ACLU , Southern Poverty Law Center , Legal Defense Fund , successfully challenged that in the lower courts .
But , unfortunately , the state insisted on fighting back .
They apparently want to force American citizens to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on their table or voting .
And that ’ s totally contrary to what democracy is all about .
And so , rather than sit back and wallow in the sorrow and complain about the state , we decided that we ’ re going to approach this the way we ’ ve always approached things .
And that ’ s , when we see obstacles , we turn them into opportunities .
And we organized the entire United States , where over 90,000 individuals across the state and corporations and celebrities and athletes @ @ @ @ @ @ @ million to our Fines and Fees Fund .
And we were able to pay off the fines and fees of over 40,000 returning citizens .
And we know , since the passage of Amendment 4 , we were able to register — in the face of this pandemic and all of the obstacles and the uncertainty about registration , we were still able to register over 87,000 returning citizens since the passage of Amendment 4 .
AMY GOODMAN : So , 1.4 million would have been eligible .
President Trump won in Florida @ @ @ @ @ @ @ everyone who came out of prison who had a felony conviction would have voted against Trump , but , to say the least , this is extremely significant .
DESMOND MEADE : Oh , most definitely .
You know , one of the things that I told my staff , even before the first vote was counted , I told them that we won .
We won because we were able to impact so many lives in the state of Florida , people who would have never thought that they would be able @ @ @ @ @ @ @ seeing people in their sixties and seventies .
We even had a lady , 84 years old , she was able to vote for the first time in all of her life .
And then you had people — we had a young lady in South Florida who was given six months to live , Amy .
And her dying wish was not to visit an exotic location or meet a celebrity .
Her dying wish was to be able to cast a ballot , to be able to feel what it felt @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have their voices heard .
And that passion and that desire was something that was indicative in thousands upon thousands of returning citizens throughout the state of Florida .
So , our efforts reinvigorated hope in the communities and in the individuals who would have thought that there was no opportunity for them to have their voices heard .
And because we passed Amendment 4 , it was able to inspire a movement across the country .
In California , where they passed Prop 17 to allow people on parole to be able @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
And we ’ ve seen what happened in Iowa and in Kentucky , in so many places .
And so , we know that we have touched hundreds of thousands of lives , and it has increased voter engagement throughout this country .
And so , we won .
AMY GOODMAN : Desmond , the numbers are staggering .
When we talked about this in 2018 , one in five African Americans in Florida , more than 10 % of Florida ’ s adult population , were ineligible to vote in the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ one in 16 Black Americans can not vote due to their criminal record .
This is a staggering figure .
DESMOND MEADE : Yes , it is .
And I talk about this in my new book , you know , where the challenge is me as an African American man that was leading this effort and understanding the staggering impact that felon disenfranchisement had on the African American community , and not just Black men , but Black women , as well , you know , to be able to thread that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from just impacting newly released slaves to really impacting all Americans , and how it was , I think , challenging to really bring in a much broader audience without ignoring the impact that it has on the African American community .
But we were able to successfully do it , I think , billing this as an all-American issue , understanding that even if it ’ s just African Americans that are hurting because of policies , that means that all Americans are hurting , because we are all connected .
DESMOND @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a great question , Amy .
And I can tell you this .
A lot of — one of the things that impact policies , and no matter what policies you ’ re dealing with , is that narrative , right ?
How are you viewing people ?
And when you use the term “ ex-felon , ” “ convict , ” “ ex-con , ” what you ’ re doing is you ’ re actually dehumanizing that individual while desensitizing the public towards that individual or the issue that they ’ re @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the United States use this tactic before they bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki by demonizing the Japanese people .
This is the same thing that we see today with the use of the word “ ex-felon.
” Where else do you see anyone going around calling somebody , “ Oh , that ’ s an ex-liar , ” or “ That ’ s an ex-adulterer , ” or “ That ’ s an ex-tax evader , ” for the rest of their lives ?
When you call someone an “ ex-felon ” — right @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the fact that that ’ s someone ’ s son , daughter , grandson , granddaughter , and they ’ re still deserving of being treated with dignity and respect , in spite of what they ’ ve done .
We have to be very careful on how we treat the least among us .
And so , the first step is to really try to humanize individuals who may have been caught up in the criminal justice system , and recognize that they ’ re still a citizen of their community , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they should be treated accordingly .
AMY GOODMAN : You talk about other people ’ s stories in your book and continually , as tens of thousands were able to vote as a result of your work .
I wanted to turn to the former NFL quarterback Michael Vick , one of the 1.4 million returning citizens in Florida who became eligible to vote in the election .
Of course , DeSantis , the governor , whittled that down .
But Vick discussed his journey with the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition , your @ @ @ @ @ @ @ So , that ’ s former NFL star Michael Vick .
Desmond Meade , tell us more .
And tell us more about your book , the book that just came out , because you have written another , as well .
DESMOND MEADE : Yeah , so , Michael Vick was great to work with .
You know , I think his story really speaks to a couple of things .
Number one , just that desire that people have to be a part of this country , to be a part @ @ @ @ @ @ @ then the other thing that it speaks to is that , you know , and the issue that we dealt with was that , even though Florida Legislature had imposed this poll tax and it impacted 774,000 returning citizens , there were still 500,000 to 600,000 returning citizens who could have registered to vote without having any financial obligations to pay .
However , they didn ’ t know .
And I termed this as the Juneteenth effect , where the slaves in Galveston , Texas , didn ’ t find out that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
You know , here , passage of Amendment 4 , we came up on our second-year anniversary , and there are so many people who did not know that they could register to vote in spite of their previous felony conviction .
And we see that phenomenon even in states like Georgia , Louisiana and so many states across the country , where people are walking around believing that they can not be a part of this democratic process because of a previous felony conviction .
Michael Vick kind of exemplified this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ vote for quite some time , but he didn ’ t realize the steps that he needed to take .
And we were so grateful to be able to work with him and really walk him through that process and make sure that , yes , he did qualify , under the Amendment 4 , passing of Amendment 4 , and he was successfully able to register and be able to vote .
And that ’ s an amazing thing .
And I think that that ’ s an experience that we want @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the state of Florida , but across the country , to experience , because I do believe that people who have been impacted by the criminal justice system will make a significant impact in elections in the future , as well as around criminal justice reform .
And I ’ ve got to remind you , Amy , that it ’ s not just about the presidential race .
There are so many down-ballot races , that of state attorneys , of DAs , sheriffs , judges , public defenders , clerk of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are up for reelection throughout the upcoming years .
And people who have been impacted the most have an opportunity to have their voices heard in a very , very significant way .
And in my book , you know , I talk about how , in spite of the fact that we may have made mistakes in the past , in spite of the fact that society may have [ inaudible ] — DESMOND MEADE : Right — we have an opportunity to overcome and be a changemaker in our community and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Desmond Meade , we want to thank you so much for being with us , president of the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition , chair of the Floridians for a Fair Democracy , spearheaded Amendment 4 , which re-enfranchised 1.4 million Floridians , who he ’ s still fighting for , his new book called Let My People Vote : My Battle to Restore the Civil Rights of Returning Citizens .
A very Happy Birthday to Ishmael Daro !
Democracy Now !
is produced with Mike Burke , Renée Feltz , Deena Guzder , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Taracena , Carla Wills , Tami Woronoff , Charina Nadura , Sam Alcoff , Tey-Marie Astudillo , John Hamilton , Robby Karran , Hany Massoud , Adriano Contreras .
Our general manager is Julie Crosby .
Special thanks to Becca Staley , Miriam Barnard , Paul Powell , Mike Di Filippo , Miguel Nogueira .
Stay safe .
Wear a mask .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report, as we end today’s show in Florida.
DESMOND MEADE SUPPORTERS: [cheering]
AMY GOODMAN: That’s the sound of supporters cheering Desmond Meade as he came out of a polling place, where he voted for president for the first time in 30 years. Desmond’s visit to the polls came after a years-long battle to restore the right to vote for an estimated 1.4 million people in Florida who were formerly disenfranchised due to their criminal records.
In 2018, Desmond Meade led the successful fight for Amendment 4, a measure to restore voting rights to people with nonviolent felonies who have fully completed their sentences. The constitutional amendment overturned a Jim Crow-era law aimed at keeping African Americans from voting and was hailed as the biggest win for voting rights in decades.
But since its passage, Florida Republicans, led by the governor, Ron DeSantis, have fought to keep people from voting. The Republican Senate passed a bill requiring formerly incarcerated people with felony convictions to repay all fines and fees to courts before their voting rights were restored, sparking a prolonged legal battle. Hundreds of thousands of people in Florida remained disenfranchised during this election due to the modern-day poll tax, as many described it. Despite this, tens of thousands of newly eligible voters returned to the polls.
For more on Amendment 4’s impact on the election, the ongoing battle to re-enfranchise people, and his own election story, we go to Orlando, where we are joined by Desmond Meade himself, the president of the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition and chairman of the Floridians for a Fair Democracy. He’s out with a new book. It’s called Let My People Vote: My Battle to Restore the Civil Rights of Returning Citizens.
Welcome back to Democracy Now!, Desmond Meade. It’s great to have you with us. Describe that moment when you walked into your polling place and cast your vote for president of the United States for the first time in 30 years.
DESMOND MEADE: Well, first of all, good morning, Amy. It’s always great to see you.
And I can tell you that that moment was surreal. You know, that was my first time voting for president. And just the act of voting really gave me a deeper appreciation for what I was engaged in, you know, realizing the sacrifices that was made by my ancestors so I could have that opportunity, even taking with me the spirit of the over 700,000 returning citizens in Florida who could not get to vote because of the financial obstacles that our Florida Legislature had placed in front of them.
But, Amy, I could tell you, man, when I was in that act of voting, you know, just like previously even in the primary, I really had a deeper appreciation for the sacredness of the right to vote. And even though there’s a lot of political things about voting, I realized that voting actually transcended partisan politics, even racial anxieties, because it took me to a place that said something very simple, but yet powerful. It said that I am. It said that I existed, that my voice matters. Right? And it validated me and made me a complete American citizen. And I think that that was something that felt so great that I just can’t help but want every American citizen to experience that feeling and understand that the right to vote is sacred and we should honor it by actually voting.
AMY GOODMAN: So, I remember going down to Melbourne, Florida, to interview you on stage, Desmond. And at the time, it was quite amazing, the level of organizing that had gone on for Amendment 4, which would affect 1.4 million, as you call people “returning citizens.” And this just flew through. It sailed through. And it won by an overwhelming majority. It was only after it was passed that the Republicans moved in on this, that Governor DeSantis — explain what happened and the demand that was made on people before they could vote, after they came out of prison.
DESMOND MEADE: Amy, I think what we’ve seen is an example of the arrogance of politicians, you know, that they sat idly by for 150 years while this policy was in place in Florida, and didn’t lift a finger to change it. But the people took matters into their own hands. And then, once we passed — overwhelmingly passed — Amendment 4, with a strong bipartisan support, people from all walks of life and all political persuasions — the people did that — then you had the arrogance of politicians that insisted that they insert themselves into this beautiful movement and determine the qualifications for people to be able to register to vote. And they laid out a series of financial obligations that a person must pay before they’re even able to register.
Our ensuing lawsuit, by the ACLU, Southern Poverty Law Center, Legal Defense Fund, successfully challenged that in the lower courts. But, unfortunately, the state insisted on fighting back. They apparently want to force American citizens to choose between being able to put food on their table or voting. And that’s totally contrary to what democracy is all about.
And so, rather than sit back and wallow in the sorrow and complain about the state, we decided that we’re going to approach this the way we’ve always approached things. And that’s, when we see obstacles, we turn them into opportunities. And we organized the entire United States, where over 90,000 individuals across the state and corporations and celebrities and athletes and sports teams donated over $27 million to our Fines and Fees Fund. And we were able to pay off the fines and fees of over 40,000 returning citizens. And we know, since the passage of Amendment 4, we were able to register — in the face of this pandemic and all of the obstacles and the uncertainty about registration, we were still able to register over 87,000 returning citizens since the passage of Amendment 4.
AMY GOODMAN: So, 1.4 million would have been eligible. President Trump won in Florida by close to 400,000. Not saying everyone who came out of prison who had a felony conviction would have voted against Trump, but, to say the least, this is extremely significant.
DESMOND MEADE: Oh, most definitely. You know, one of the things that I told my staff, even before the first vote was counted, I told them that we won. We won because we were able to impact so many lives in the state of Florida, people who would have never thought that they would be able to vote again. We’re seeing people in their sixties and seventies. We even had a lady, 84 years old, she was able to vote for the first time in all of her life. And then you had people — we had a young lady in South Florida who was given six months to live, Amy. And her dying wish was not to visit an exotic location or meet a celebrity. Her dying wish was to be able to cast a ballot, to be able to feel what it felt like to be a complete citizen and have their voices heard. And that passion and that desire was something that was indicative in thousands upon thousands of returning citizens throughout the state of Florida.
So, our efforts reinvigorated hope in the communities and in the individuals who would have thought that there was no opportunity for them to have their voices heard. And because we passed Amendment 4, it was able to inspire a movement across the country. In California, where they passed Prop 17 to allow people on parole to be able to vote, it’s huge. And we’ve seen what happened in Iowa and in Kentucky, in so many places. And so, we know that we have touched hundreds of thousands of lives, and it has increased voter engagement throughout this country. And so, we won.
AMY GOODMAN: Desmond, the numbers are staggering. When we talked about this in 2018, one in five African Americans in Florida, more than 10% of Florida’s adult population, were ineligible to vote in the 2018 election in Florida. Then, one in 16 Black Americans cannot vote due to their criminal record. This is a staggering figure.
DESMOND MEADE: Yes, it is. And I talk about this in my new book, you know, where the challenge is me as an African American man that was leading this effort and understanding the staggering impact that felon disenfranchisement had on the African American community, and not just Black men, but Black women, as well, you know, to be able to thread that needle, understanding that felon disenfranchisement grew from just impacting newly released slaves to really impacting all Americans, and how it was, I think, challenging to really bring in a much broader audience without ignoring the impact that it has on the African American community. But we were able to successfully do it, I think, billing this as an all-American issue, understanding that even if it’s just African Americans that are hurting because of policies, that means that all Americans are hurting, because we are all connected.
AMY GOODMAN: Desmond Meade, talk about the term “returning citizens.”
DESMOND MEADE: Wow, that’s a great question, Amy. And I can tell you this. A lot of — one of the things that impact policies, and no matter what policies you’re dealing with, is that narrative, right? How are you viewing people? And when you use the term “ex-felon,” “convict,” “ex-con,” what you’re doing is you’re actually dehumanizing that individual while desensitizing the public towards that individual or the issue that they’re dealing with. We’ve seen the United States use this tactic before they bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki by demonizing the Japanese people.
This is the same thing that we see today with the use of the word “ex-felon.” Where else do you see anyone going around calling somebody, “Oh, that’s an ex-liar,” or “That’s an ex-adulterer,” or “That’s an ex-tax evader,” for the rest of their lives? When you call someone an “ex-felon” — right? — what you gloss over, the fact that that’s someone’s son, daughter, grandson, granddaughter, and they’re still deserving of being treated with dignity and respect, in spite of what they’ve done. We have to be very careful on how we treat the least among us. And so, the first step is to really try to humanize individuals who may have been caught up in the criminal justice system, and recognize that they’re still a citizen of their community, their state and this country, and they should be treated accordingly.
AMY GOODMAN: You talk about other people’s stories in your book and continually, as tens of thousands were able to vote as a result of your work. I wanted to turn to the former NFL quarterback Michael Vick, one of the 1.4 million returning citizens in Florida who became eligible to vote in the election. Of course, DeSantis, the governor, whittled that down. But Vick discussed his journey with the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, your group, Desmond.
MICHAEL VICK: Today, I’m going to vote. This is the first time I’m going to vote, you know, for various reasons, mainly because of my past. … I had to go through a whole process of getting my absentee ballot, had to go through some loops, had to get everything sent out here to California. Definitely, it’s your right to vote. … My absentee ballot finally arrived, and I’m ready to vote.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s former NFL star Michael Vick. Desmond Meade, tell us more. And tell us more about your book, the book that just came out, because you have written another, as well.
DESMOND MEADE: Yeah, so, Michael Vick was great to work with. You know, I think his story really speaks to a couple of things. Number one, just that desire that people have to be a part of this country, to be a part of this process, right? And then the other thing that it speaks to is that, you know, and the issue that we dealt with was that, even though Florida Legislature had imposed this poll tax and it impacted 774,000 returning citizens, there were still 500,000 to 600,000 returning citizens who could have registered to vote without having any financial obligations to pay. However, they didn’t know. And I termed this as the Juneteenth effect, where the slaves in Galveston, Texas, didn’t find out that they were free until two years later. You know, here, passage of Amendment 4, we came up on our second-year anniversary, and there are so many people who did not know that they could register to vote in spite of their previous felony conviction. And we see that phenomenon even in states like Georgia, Louisiana and so many states across the country, where people are walking around believing that they cannot be a part of this democratic process because of a previous felony conviction. Michael Vick kind of exemplified this. And he was actually able to vote for quite some time, but he didn’t realize the steps that he needed to take. And we were so grateful to be able to work with him and really walk him through that process and make sure that, yes, he did qualify, under the Amendment 4, passing of Amendment 4, and he was successfully able to register and be able to vote. And that’s an amazing thing.
And I think that that’s an experience that we want more returning citizens, not only in the state of Florida, but across the country, to experience, because I do believe that people who have been impacted by the criminal justice system will make a significant impact in elections in the future, as well as around criminal justice reform. And I’ve got to remind you, Amy, that it’s not just about the presidential race. There are so many down-ballot races, that of state attorneys, of DAs, sheriffs, judges, public defenders, clerk of courts and supervisors of elections, that are up for reelection throughout the upcoming years. And people who have been impacted the most have an opportunity to have their voices heard in a very, very significant way. And in my book, you know, I talk about how, in spite of the fact that we may have made mistakes in the past, in spite of the fact that society may have [inaudible] —
AMY GOODMAN: We have 15 seconds.
DESMOND MEADE: Right — we have an opportunity to overcome and be a changemaker in our community and in this country.
AMY GOODMAN: Desmond Meade, we want to thank you so much for being with us, president of the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, chair of the Floridians for a Fair Democracy, spearheaded Amendment 4, which re-enfranchised 1.4 million Floridians, who he’s still fighting for, his new book called Let My People Vote: My Battle to Restore the Civil Rights of Returning Citizens.
A very Happy Birthday to Ishmael Daro! Democracy Now! is produced with Mike Burke, Renée Feltz, Deena Guzder, Libby Rainey, Nermeen Shaikh, María Taracena, Carla Wills, Tami Woronoff, Charina Nadura, Sam Alcoff, Tey-Marie Astudillo, John Hamilton, Robby Karran, Hany Massoud, Adriano Contreras. Our general manager is Julie Crosby. Special thanks to Becca Staley, Miriam Barnard, Paul Powell, Mike Di Filippo, Miguel Nogueira. Stay safe. Wear a mask. I’m Amy Goodman.


democracynow--2020-11-13--Can Trump Pardon Himself? Jane Mayer on Trump's Desperate Bid to Stay in Power & Avoid Prosecution

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
The number of Americans hospitalized due to COVID-19 has more than a doubled in the past week as infections soar to record numbers across the nation .
On Thursday , a staggering 163,000 new cases were reported — a new world-shattering record .
The U.S. death toll has topped 242,000 .
Despite the surge , President Trump is largely ignoring the crisis , letting @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Since the election was called for Joe Biden last Saturday , Trump has only made one brief public appearance , and his Twitter feed is filled with conspiracy theories .
While Trump has claimed the election was stolen , his campaign has provided no evidence of widespread voter fraud .
On Thursday , a wing of the Department of Homeland Security released a statement saying , quote , “ The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history .
… There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in any way compromised , ” they said .
Well , as Trump refuses to concede the race , we begin today ’ s show with longtime investigative journalist Jane Mayer of The New Yorker magazine .
Her most recent article is headlined “ Why Trump Can ’ t Afford to Lose.
” It was published just before the election .
Jane Mayer writes , “ Trump has famously survived one impeachment , two divorces , six bankruptcies , twenty-six accusations of sexual misconduct , and an estimated four thousand lawsuits .
Few @ @ @ @ @ @ @ That run of good luck may well end , perhaps brutally , if he loses to Joe Biden.
” Well , Jane Mayer , welcome back to Democracy Now !
It ’ s great to have you with us .
Is President Trump simply concerned of moving from the presidency to private life , or is he concerned about moving from the presidency to prison ?
JANE MAYER : Well , I think you can see that he has many reasons to be concerned , at least , that if he leaves the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to lose the immunity that goes along with being president , for legal reasons .
And I think , from what I understand , he ’ s quite concerned that he may face prosecution in New York , where a pardon from the White House wouldn ’ t be able to reach .
AMY GOODMAN : Well , why don ’ t you go through all of the lawsuits and criminal investigations that he is facing ?
And then we ’ ll talk about the possibility that as the coronavirus rips through the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ right now is figuring out if he can pre-pardon himself .
JANE MAYER : So , there are about two dozen different kinds of legal actions coming at him .
By far , I think , the most serious is the investigation underway in New York City by the District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. , who has picked up the case that originated with the Southern District of New York , the U.S. Attorney ’ s Office .
It was a federal case against Michael Cohen , who had been Trump ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ remember , served a three-year — is still serving a three-year prison sentence .
And when he was indicted , the indictment mentioned that there was an unindicted co-conspirator , who happened to have been — he wasn ’ t named by name , but it was clear that it was President Trump .
So , that unindicted co-conspirator charge has now been sort of picked up by the District Attorney ’ s Office , which has got an open criminal investigation into President Trump , looking at among all kinds of fraud @ @ @ @ @ @ @ — bank fraud , insurance fraud , tax evasion and other kinds of fraud .
So , that is ongoing .
There is an open investigation , and it ’ s said to be quite a serious one .
AMY GOODMAN : So , you talked about Cy Vance here in New York .
What about Letitia James , the attorney general of New York state ?
JANE MAYER : So , she , too , has any open investigation into Trump ’ s pre-presidential business practices .
It has to do with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ whether he fraudulently evaluated the value of one of his real estate holdings in order to take a big tax deduction .
And that is under investigation , too .
In the course of doing reporting on this , people told me that that ’ s a harder case to make , because evaluations and assessments of real estate are more of a art than a science .
So , it may be difficult to argue that it was absolutely fraudulent , whereas the case that the district attorney is looking — I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ yeah , the Manhattan DA is looking at is one that is just a much harder sort of — there are many more facts involved that are harder to fight .
AMY GOODMAN : Bloomberg is also — Bloomberg News and ProPublica are also talking about his CFO and the information that is now coming out about the Trump Organization finances .
JANE MAYER : I mean , I think that there ’ s just a bottomless pit , from what I understand .
I interviewed Michael Cohen , the former lawyer to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I did , and he ’ s also written a book .
And it ’ s clear that there are so many possible charges that they could bring .
And so , this is a serious situation .
It ’ s one we really haven ’ t faced in the country before , where a president may be facing serious prosecution for criminal behavior .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to turn to President Trump ’ s former personal attorney and fixer , who you were just talking about , Michael Cohen .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ , once he got out of jail .
AMY GOODMAN : So , that ’ s Michael Cohen , President Trump ’ s former personal fixer and lawyer .
Talk about this issue of the debt and what ’ s at stake , that he might owe something like $ 421 million , and how that could — actually , what national security folks are saying across the political spectrum , their deep concern that if President Trump , as president , has access to top-secret information , he could use this to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to pay off that debt .
JANE MAYER : I mean , that ’ s absolutely true that Donald Trump has at least over $ 300 million of loans coming due in the next four years that he has personally backed , meaning he ’ s on the hook himself for these loans .
He ’ s also got an IRS case that he appears to be losing .
It ’ s an argument with the IRS about what he owes in taxes .
It appears that if he loses it , he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ an additional $ 100 million .
So he has tremendous liabilities hanging over his head .
If he had stayed president , he probably would have been — you know , had the clout to renegotiate these loans somehow .
If he ’ s out on the street , it ’ s going to be a lot harder .
He ’ s going to be very hard up for where to find the cash to pay these things off .
He could try to sell some of his assets , but because of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are worth a good bit less than they were before , because commercial real estate and resorts are in the tank right now .
And so , he ’ s in a hard , hard spot , and as he is with facing these criminal investigations .
And so , there are a lot of reasons he ’ s fighting so hard to stay inside the White House , according to people who know what ’ s going on inside .
Whether he would turn to foreign backers , I mean , that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the people around him who I interviewed suggested , that he might turn to corrupt foreign oligarchs .
You know , he has also clearly flattered a number of the world ’ s richest and most corrupt leaders , including Putin , including Duterte .
He may try to call in some chips , people worry .
I mean , the situation suggests that it ’ s possible that some of his foreign policy positions were very self-interested .
There ’ s certainly been that question raised about his relationship with Turkey @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you know , these would have been huge liabilities going forward also , if he had stayed , if he had gotten himself reelected .
As it is — excuse me — these are reasons also why he might be fighting so hard to try to convince people that he won an election that he lost .
AMY GOODMAN : And talk about , among the lawsuits , Trump having to deal with E. Jean Carroll ’ s defamation lawsuit , if you can discuss what that is all about , the woman @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the 1990s , who recently spoke out .
JANE MAYER : Right .
She charged him with rape .
She met him in a department store in New York and said that he tried to rape her in one of the changing rooms there .
She ’ s a writer and a relatively well-known figure .
And so , when she made this charge and told what had happened to her , Trump called her a liar , as he has with most of the other people who — as you mentioned at @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are 26 claims against him of sexual assault and other kinds of sexual misbehavior .
And he called her a liar , and she turned around and then sued him for defamation for that .
And her lawyer , Roberta Kaplan , and she are so far being upheld in the courts as they move forward against — with their case against Trump for defamation .
It may come down to them trying to get a DNA sample to — she ’ s still got , I guess , the outfit that she @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to be able to test it against Trump ’ s DNA .
AMY GOODMAN : So , that , though , is not a rape case .
It is a defamation case for him saying — AMY GOODMAN : — she lied about her .
So , if you then , Jane , can talk about these civil versus criminal cases , and what would happen , for example , if when Trump leaves , if he leaves the White House , he goes to Florida instead of New York , what does @ @ @ @ @ @ @ also you talking about possibly he ’ s using this time to negotiate deals of protection ?
JANE MAYER : Well , so , as we all know , there is a very broad pardon power in the Constitution that the president has .
He can issue pardons almost without any kind of guidelines to whomever he wishes .
And one of the questions that people , legal experts , have , and historians , watching all of this , this incredible spectacle , is whether Trump might try to pardon himself .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ our history .
An earlier corrupt president , Richard Nixon , thought about it and thought that he had the power to do it .
The Justice Department at the time looked into it .
And there ’ s just a sort of a relatively flimsy , quick opinion that suggests that the Justice Department found at that time that they didn ’ t think it could be done , because just it ’ s illogical , as the paper says .
The opinion just says no man can stand in judgment of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s never really been tested before .
And a number of experts who I interview suggest that they think it ’ s possible that Trump could try to pardon himself , and might even get away with it if he did .
But what ’ s interesting is that the pardon power he has is to be able to pardon himself against federal charges .
And that might be able to wipe the slate clean for himself of many , many possible criminal charges , but it would not reach the New York @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from the DA ’ s Office or from the Attorney General ’ s Office in New York , because those are state charges .
So he might still have to go ahead with some kind of process there , and he wouldn ’ t be able to get himself off the hook .
What people are suggesting is it ’ s possible that maybe there would be some sort of global settlement offered him on the way out the door , that in exchange for some kind of concession that he might give @ @ @ @ @ @ @ guilty or a fine or something like that , that there might be some kind of , you know , just general settlement .
It ’ s a very ticklish , difficult problem of what to do with a president .
We don ’ t want to look like a new president prosecutes the former president .
It sort of has a kind of a tinpot dictatorship feel to it .
At the same time , there ’ s a sense that you need to hold everybody accountable , and nobody is above @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the United States .
So , this is really complicated , fraught subject .
And , anyway , this is all what ’ s going on in terms of why , again , Trump may be fighting so hard not to leave that White House .
AMY GOODMAN : And , of course , then there are some who speculate maybe he ’ ll hand over power to Pence for a few minutes , either now or in the last hour of the presidency , so that he could do the pardoning @ @ @ @ @ @ @ actually a scenario that is laid out as a possibility in this Justice Department memo that dates back to the Watergate era , where the Justice Department suggested a president shouldn ’ t probably pardon himself .
It suggested a president might be able to temporarily step down , under the 25th Amendment , have the vice president become president temporarily , pardon the president , and then have the president step back up and take over the powers of the office again .
I mean , it would be an outrage , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s such a charade .
But then , look at the charade we ’ re looking at right now .
AMY GOODMAN : And what about pardoning other members of his family or his allies , the significance of a possible pre-pardon , as there are all sorts of discussions coming out , like maybe the next senatorial race in New York will be AOC versus Ivanka Trump ?
But what about that possibility of pre-pardoning family members ?
JANE MAYER : The president ’ s pardon powers are very broad .
He @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , anybody he wants to .
It ’ s not even clear whether it ’ s prohibited to sell pardons , practically .
I mean , he ’ s got very , very broad powers .
The question is whether you can give prospective pardons .
Can you say — could the president say , “ I hereby pardon Ivanka Trump for anything she might do from here until the end of her life ” ?
He can ’ t do that , but he could wipe the slate clean for her for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from , say , you know , the years of his time in office .
And that ’ s definitely within his powers .
AMY GOODMAN : Jane , before you go , I wanted to ask you about the previous piece you wrote , “ The Secret History of Kimberly Guilfoyle ’ s Departure from Fox.
” And the reason I ask you about this now is this latest information out of CNN Politics about Donald Trump Jr. and Kimberly Guilfoyle , his partner , the former wife of Gavin Newsom , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Jr. and Kimberly Guilfoyle making moves to expand their RNC influence — the Republican National Committee — and possibly take it over .
If you can talk about who Kimberly Guilfoyle is and what the charges were , that you laid out , around her departure from Fox ?
JANE MAYER : So , she was a talk show host at Fox .
She ’ s a former prosecutor herself .
And she left Fox under kind of mysterious circumstances .
She has claimed she did nothing wrong .
Her lawyers have claimed @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in fact , what I discovered was that there was a whopping legal settlement involving her .
A former assistant of hers accused her of sexual harassment .
The details were just mind-boggling .
And Fox paid out over $ 4 million to the former assistant of Kimberly Guilfoyle to settle the claim , which suggests that they felt it had a lot of merit .
Guilfoyle left , started dating Don Jr. and has become one of the top officials in Trump ’ s reelection campaign .
She ’ s the co-finance @ @ @ @ @ @ @ anyway , there ’ s quite a lurid backstory to her , if anybody wants to go back and take a look at this piece .
AMY GOODMAN : What was most significant to you ?
What most shocked you about the work conditions for the people who worked for her , who were forced to be at her house ?
Talk about the conditions there and what they alleged she forced them to do .
JANE MAYER : Well , her assistant claimed that Guilfoyle required her to work at her apartment @ @ @ @ @ @ @ often was completely naked and that she paraded around with no clothes on and required the assistant to look at photographs she had on her phone of the genitals of the various guys that she had had sex with , that she talked incessantly about sex .
It was really weird , to tell you the truth .
It was a completely bizarre and sort of obsessively sex-oriented behavior that very much upset her assistant over the course of several years .
AMY GOODMAN : I wanted to go to the Republican National @ @ @ @ @ @ @ if Trump loses the race .
This was one of — we wanted to play — we think we have a clip here of the former Fox News host Kimberly Guilfoyle , who addressed the Republican convention .
AMY GOODMAN : Jane Mayer , your response ?
But also , as we wrap up , what has most surprised you this week ?
Your piece that you wrote , “ Why Trump Can ’ t Afford to Lose , ” was just before the announcement that Joe Biden had won , and I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ surprised you in this last week .
JANE MAYER : Well , so , to tell you the truth , all of Trump ’ s behavior was not only predictable , it literally was predicted in this piece by all the people who knew him best .
Everybody said he will not concede .
And they called it .
But what has surprised me has been the behavior of the leaders of the Republican Party .
And I guess they ’ ve surprised me over and over again , the extent to which @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to which Mitch McConnell has yet to say one word suggesting that the false claims that Trump won the election are in fact false — you know , he ’ s saying , “ Oh , he ’ s entitled to play it out , ” or whatever — and that Lindsey Graham is saying that he should never concede , and he needs to fight , fight , fight .
I mean , this behavior is what makes Trump possible .
It ’ s the difference between Trump being seen as pathetic @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as powerful by the country .
And so that ’ s what surprises me over and over again .
AMY GOODMAN : Jane Mayer , we want to thank you for being with us , and we ’ ll link to your pieces in The New Yorker , ” Why Trump Can ’ t Afford to Lose ” and ” The Secret History of Kimberly Guilfoyle ’ s Departure from Fox.
” When we come back , Desmond Meade votes for the first time for president in 30 years .
Stay with us @

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
The number of Americans hospitalized due to COVID-19 has more than a doubled in the past week as infections soar to record numbers across the nation. On Thursday, a staggering 163,000 new cases were reported — a new world-shattering record. The U.S. death toll has topped 242,000. Despite the surge, President Trump is largely ignoring the crisis, letting the virus rip through the country.
Since the election was called for Joe Biden last Saturday, Trump has only made one brief public appearance, and his Twitter feed is filled with conspiracy theories. While Trump has claimed the election was stolen, his campaign has provided no evidence of widespread voter fraud. On Thursday, a wing of the Department of Homeland Security released a statement saying, quote, “The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history. … There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised,” they said.
Well, as Trump refuses to concede the race, we begin today’s show with longtime investigative journalist Jane Mayer of The New Yorker magazine. Her most recent article is headlined “Why Trump Can’t Afford to Lose.” It was published just before the election. Jane Mayer writes, “Trump has famously survived one impeachment, two divorces, six bankruptcies, twenty-six accusations of sexual misconduct, and an estimated four thousand lawsuits. Few people have evaded consequences more cunningly. That run of good luck may well end, perhaps brutally, if he loses to Joe Biden.”
Well, Jane Mayer, welcome back to Democracy Now! It’s great to have you with us. Is President Trump simply concerned of moving from the presidency to private life, or is he concerned about moving from the presidency to prison?
JANE MAYER: Well, I think you can see that he has many reasons to be concerned, at least, that if he leaves the White House, he’s going to lose the immunity that goes along with being president, for legal reasons. And I think, from what I understand, he’s quite concerned that he may face prosecution in New York, where a pardon from the White House wouldn’t be able to reach.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, why don’t you go through all of the lawsuits and criminal investigations that he is facing? And then we’ll talk about the possibility that as the coronavirus rips through the population, what he’s doing right now is figuring out if he can pre-pardon himself.
JANE MAYER: So, there are about two dozen different kinds of legal actions coming at him. By far, I think, the most serious is the investigation underway in New York City by the District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr., who has picked up the case that originated with the Southern District of New York, the U.S. Attorney’s Office. It was a federal case against Michael Cohen, who had been Trump’s lawyer. Michael Cohen, as people remember, served a three-year — is still serving a three-year prison sentence. And when he was indicted, the indictment mentioned that there was an unindicted co-conspirator, who happened to have been — he wasn’t named by name, but it was clear that it was President Trump. So, that unindicted co-conspirator charge has now been sort of picked up by the District Attorney’s Office, which has got an open criminal investigation into President Trump, looking at among all kinds of fraud in his business before he became president — bank fraud, insurance fraud, tax evasion and other kinds of fraud. So, that is ongoing. There is an open investigation, and it’s said to be quite a serious one.
AMY GOODMAN: So, you talked about Cy Vance here in New York. What about Letitia James, the attorney general of New York state?
JANE MAYER: So, she, too, has any open investigation into Trump’s pre-presidential business practices. It has to do with whether or not he took a — whether he fraudulently evaluated the value of one of his real estate holdings in order to take a big tax deduction. And that is under investigation, too. In the course of doing reporting on this, people told me that that’s a harder case to make, because evaluations and assessments of real estate are more of a art than a science. So, it may be difficult to argue that it was absolutely fraudulent, whereas the case that the district attorney is looking — I mean, excuse me, that, yeah, the Manhattan DA is looking at is one that is just a much harder sort of — there are many more facts involved that are harder to fight.
AMY GOODMAN: Bloomberg is also — Bloomberg News and ProPublica are also talking about his CFO and the information that is now coming out about the Trump Organization finances.
JANE MAYER: I mean, I think that there’s just a bottomless pit, from what I understand. I interviewed Michael Cohen, the former lawyer to Donald Trump, for the story that I did, and he’s also written a book. And it’s clear that there are so many possible charges that they could bring. And so, this is a serious situation. It’s one we really haven’t faced in the country before, where a president may be facing serious prosecution for criminal behavior.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to President Trump’s former personal attorney and fixer, who you were just talking about, Michael Cohen. He was speaking to MSNBC in September, once he got out of jail.
MICHAEL COHEN: I think what’s really bothering him the most, though, is that Trump has over $420 million in outstanding loans that are coming due. Now, in the event that there is a potential tax liability for the time period that they’re talking about, I mean, it could be hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. If you add those together, I mean, he’s very — I mean, very realistically facing a potential bankruptcy. … He’ll find some corrupt foreign entity to help him out of the situation.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s Michael Cohen, President Trump’s former personal fixer and lawyer. Talk about this issue of the debt and what’s at stake, that he might owe something like $421 million, and how that could — actually, what national security folks are saying across the political spectrum, their deep concern that if President Trump, as president, has access to top-secret information, he could use this to somehow get countries to give him money to pay off that debt.
JANE MAYER: I mean, that’s absolutely true that Donald Trump has at least over $300 million of loans coming due in the next four years that he has personally backed, meaning he’s on the hook himself for these loans. He’s also got an IRS case that he appears to be losing. It’s an argument with the IRS about what he owes in taxes. It appears that if he loses it, he’s going to have to pay an additional $100 million. So he has tremendous liabilities hanging over his head.
If he had stayed president, he probably would have been — you know, had the clout to renegotiate these loans somehow. If he’s out on the street, it’s going to be a lot harder. He’s going to be very hard up for where to find the cash to pay these things off. He could try to sell some of his assets, but because of the pandemic, some of those assets are worth a good bit less than they were before, because commercial real estate and resorts are in the tank right now. And so, he’s in a hard, hard spot, and as he is with facing these criminal investigations. And so, there are a lot of reasons he’s fighting so hard to stay inside the White House, according to people who know what’s going on inside.
Whether he would turn to foreign backers, I mean, that’s certainly one thing that some of the people around him who I interviewed suggested, that he might turn to corrupt foreign oligarchs. You know, he has also clearly flattered a number of the world’s richest and most corrupt leaders, including Putin, including Duterte. He may try to call in some chips, people worry. I mean, the situation suggests that it’s possible that some of his foreign policy positions were very self-interested. There’s certainly been that question raised about his relationship with Turkey.
So, these are all — you know, these would have been huge liabilities going forward also, if he had stayed, if he had gotten himself reelected. As it is — excuse me — these are reasons also why he might be fighting so hard to try to convince people that he won an election that he lost.
AMY GOODMAN: And talk about, among the lawsuits, Trump having to deal with E. Jean Carroll’s defamation lawsuit, if you can discuss what that is all about, the woman who charged him with rape back in the 1990s, who recently spoke out.
JANE MAYER: Right. She charged him with rape. She met him in a department store in New York and said that he tried to rape her in one of the changing rooms there. She’s a writer and a relatively well-known figure. And so, when she made this charge and told what had happened to her, Trump called her a liar, as he has with most of the other people who — as you mentioned at the start of this, that there are 26 claims against him of sexual assault and other kinds of sexual misbehavior. And he called her a liar, and she turned around and then sued him for defamation for that. And her lawyer, Roberta Kaplan, and she are so far being upheld in the courts as they move forward against — with their case against Trump for defamation. It may come down to them trying to get a DNA sample to — she’s still got, I guess, the outfit that she wore, and they’re hoping to be able to test it against Trump’s DNA.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that, though, is not a rape case. It is a defamation case for him saying —
JANE MAYER: Correct.
AMY GOODMAN: — she lied about her. So, if you then, Jane, can talk about these civil versus criminal cases, and what would happen, for example, if when Trump leaves, if he leaves the White House, he goes to Florida instead of New York, what does that mean for these cases? And also you talking about possibly he’s using this time to negotiate deals of protection?
JANE MAYER: Well, so, as we all know, there is a very broad pardon power in the Constitution that the president has. He can issue pardons almost without any kind of guidelines to whomever he wishes. And one of the questions that people, legal experts, have, and historians, watching all of this, this incredible spectacle, is whether Trump might try to pardon himself. It has not been done before in our history. An earlier corrupt president, Richard Nixon, thought about it and thought that he had the power to do it. The Justice Department at the time looked into it. And there’s just a sort of a relatively flimsy, quick opinion that suggests that the Justice Department found at that time that they didn’t think it could be done, because just it’s illogical, as the paper says. The opinion just says no man can stand in judgment of his own trial. But it’s never really been tested before. And a number of experts who I interview suggest that they think it’s possible that Trump could try to pardon himself, and might even get away with it if he did.
But what’s interesting is that the pardon power he has is to be able to pardon himself against federal charges. And that might be able to wipe the slate clean for himself of many, many possible criminal charges, but it would not reach the New York state charges that he may be facing from the DA’s Office or from the Attorney General’s Office in New York, because those are state charges. So he might still have to go ahead with some kind of process there, and he wouldn’t be able to get himself off the hook.
What people are suggesting is it’s possible that maybe there would be some sort of global settlement offered him on the way out the door, that in exchange for some kind of concession that he might give saying that he had — he was guilty or a fine or something like that, that there might be some kind of, you know, just general settlement. It’s a very ticklish, difficult problem of what to do with a president. We don’t want to look like a new president prosecutes the former president. It sort of has a kind of a tinpot dictatorship feel to it. At the same time, there’s a sense that you need to hold everybody accountable, and nobody is above the law, and that includes presidents of the United States. So, this is really complicated, fraught subject. And, anyway, this is all what’s going on in terms of why, again, Trump may be fighting so hard not to leave that White House.
AMY GOODMAN: And, of course, then there are some who speculate maybe he’ll hand over power to Pence for a few minutes, either now or in the last hour of the presidency, so that he could do the pardoning.
JANE MAYER: That’s actually a scenario that is laid out as a possibility in this Justice Department memo that dates back to the Watergate era, where the Justice Department suggested a president shouldn’t probably pardon himself. It suggested a president might be able to temporarily step down, under the 25th Amendment, have the vice president become president temporarily, pardon the president, and then have the president step back up and take over the powers of the office again. I mean, it would be an outrage, in many ways, because it’s such a charade. But then, look at the charade we’re looking at right now.
AMY GOODMAN: And what about pardoning other members of his family or his allies, the significance of a possible pre-pardon, as there are all sorts of discussions coming out, like maybe the next senatorial race in New York will be AOC versus Ivanka Trump? But what about that possibility of pre-pardoning family members?
JANE MAYER: The president’s pardon powers are very broad. He can probably pardon anybody in his circle, anybody he wants to. It’s not even clear whether it’s prohibited to sell pardons, practically. I mean, he’s got very, very broad powers. The question is whether you can give prospective pardons. Can you say — could the president say, “I hereby pardon Ivanka Trump for anything she might do from here until the end of her life”? He can’t do that, but he could wipe the slate clean for her for any possible prosecution that might come out from, say, you know, the years of his time in office. And that’s definitely within his powers.
AMY GOODMAN: Jane, before you go, I wanted to ask you about the previous piece you wrote, “The Secret History of Kimberly Guilfoyle’s Departure from Fox.” And the reason I ask you about this now is this latest information out of CNN Politics about Donald Trump Jr. and Kimberly Guilfoyle, his partner, the former wife of Gavin Newsom, the current California governor, about Trump Jr. and Kimberly Guilfoyle making moves to expand their RNC influence — the Republican National Committee — and possibly take it over. If you can talk about who Kimberly Guilfoyle is and what the charges were, that you laid out, around her departure from Fox?
JANE MAYER: So, she was a talk show host at Fox. She’s a former prosecutor herself. And she left Fox under kind of mysterious circumstances. She has claimed she did nothing wrong. Her lawyers have claimed she did nothing wrong. But, in fact, what I discovered was that there was a whopping legal settlement involving her. A former assistant of hers accused her of sexual harassment. The details were just mind-boggling. And Fox paid out over $4 million to the former assistant of Kimberly Guilfoyle to settle the claim, which suggests that they felt it had a lot of merit. Guilfoyle left, started dating Don Jr. and has become one of the top officials in Trump’s reelection campaign. She’s the co-finance chair of the campaign. And, anyway, there’s quite a lurid backstory to her, if anybody wants to go back and take a look at this piece.
AMY GOODMAN: What was most significant to you? What most shocked you about the work conditions for the people who worked for her, who were forced to be at her house? Talk about the conditions there and what they alleged she forced them to do.
JANE MAYER: Well, her assistant claimed that Guilfoyle required her to work at her apartment in New York City and that Guilfoyle often was completely naked and that she paraded around with no clothes on and required the assistant to look at photographs she had on her phone of the genitals of the various guys that she had had sex with, that she talked incessantly about sex. It was really weird, to tell you the truth. It was a completely bizarre and sort of obsessively sex-oriented behavior that very much upset her assistant over the course of several years.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go to the Republican National Convention, several speakers warning of chaos if Trump loses the race. This was one of — we wanted to play — we think we have a clip here of the former Fox News host Kimberly Guilfoyle, who addressed the Republican convention.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE: They want to destroy this country and everything that we have fought for and hold dear. They want to steal your liberty, your freedom. They want to control what you see and think and believe, so that they can control how you live. They want to enslave you to the weak, dependent, liberal, victim ideology, to the point that you will not recognize this country or yourself.
AMY GOODMAN: Jane Mayer, your response? But also, as we wrap up, what has most surprised you this week? Your piece that you wrote, “Why Trump Can’t Afford to Lose,” was just before the announcement that Joe Biden had won, and I’m wondering what’s most surprised you in this last week.
JANE MAYER: Well, so, to tell you the truth, all of Trump’s behavior was not only predictable, it literally was predicted in this piece by all the people who knew him best. Everybody said he will not concede. And they called it.
But what has surprised me has been the behavior of the leaders of the Republican Party. And I guess they’ve surprised me over and over again, the extent to which they have enabled Trump, the extent to which Mitch McConnell has yet to say one word suggesting that the false claims that Trump won the election are in fact false — you know, he’s saying, “Oh, he’s entitled to play it out,” or whatever — and that Lindsey Graham is saying that he should never concede, and he needs to fight, fight, fight. I mean, this behavior is what makes Trump possible. It’s the difference between Trump being seen as pathetic by the country and Trump being seen as powerful by the country. And so that’s what surprises me over and over again.
AMY GOODMAN: Jane Mayer, we want to thank you for being with us, and we’ll link to your pieces in The New Yorker, ”Why Trump Can’t Afford to Lose” and ”The Secret History of Kimberly Guilfoyle’s Departure from Fox.”
When we come back, Desmond Meade votes for the first time for president in 30 years. Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-11-13--Headlines for November 13, 2020

Headlines for November 13, 2020

The United States has once again shattered its own world record for daily coronavirus infections , reporting a staggering 163,000 @ @ @ @ @ 1,200 people died of COVID-19 in just the last 24 hours , and public health @ @ @ @ @ humanitarian catastrophe as the virus continues to spread exponentially and hospitals are pushed beyond capacity @ @ @ @ @ second U.S. state with more than a million confirmed infections , joining Texas .
In @ @ @ @ @ has issued a 30-day stay-at-home advisory and will cap social gatherings at 10 people .
@ @ @ @ @ are warning of a deadly “ full-blown resurgence ” of coronavirus .
Seventeen incarcerated people @ @ @ @ @ Pennsylvania during the pandemic — six of them since mid-October .

The United States has once again shattered its own world record for daily coronavirus infections, reporting a staggering 163,000 cases on Thursday. Nearly 1,200 people died of COVID-19 in just the last 24 hours, and public health officials are warning of a humanitarian catastrophe as the virus continues to spread exponentially and hospitals are pushed beyond capacity.
California has become the second U.S. state with more than a million confirmed infections, joining Texas.
In Chicago, Mayor Lori Lightfoot has issued a 30-day stay-at-home advisory and will cap social gatherings at 10 people.
In Pennsylvania, prison officials are warning of a deadly “full-blown resurgence” of coronavirus. Seventeen incarcerated people have died of COVID-19 in Pennsylvania during the pandemic — six of them since mid-October.