democracynow--2020-09-23--Who Is Amy Barrett? Front-Runner to Replace RBG Is Anti-Abortion Member of Patriarchal Catholic Grou

Who Is Amy Barrett? Front-Runner to Replace RBG Is Anti-Abortion Member of Patriarchal Catholic Group

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : We begin today ’ s show looking at the future of the Supreme Court .
On Tuesday , Utah Republican Senator Mitt Romney said he ’ ll support a floor vote for President Trump ’ s nominee to replace Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg , who died last week at the age of 87 .
AMY GOODMAN : The announcement means Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has the support of 51 Republican senators he needs to rapidly push forward with a vote on Justice @ @ @ @ @ @ @ days before the November election .
In 2016 , McConnell refused to hold confirmation hearings for Merrick Garland , President Obama ’ s nominee to replace Justice Antonin Scalia , who died nearly nine months before the election .
At the time , McConnell said , quote , “ The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court justice.
” President Trump has said he will name his nominee by Saturday and that it will be a woman .
The front-runner appears to be U.S. Court of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ met with Trump on Monday .
Barrett is a devout Catholic who ’ s taken conservative stances on abortion , gun rights and immigration .
The Human Rights Campaign has called her a , quote , “ absolute threat to LGBTQ rights , ” unquote .
One issue that ’ s likely to be raised if Judge Barrett is nominated to the Supreme Court is her membership in a secretive Catholic group called People of Praise .
Members of the group pledge a lifelong loyalty oath to the group , which assigns each @ @ @ @ @ @ @ heads ” for men and , until recently , “ handmaids ” for women .
The secretive group has a strictly patriarchal structure in which men are the heads of household with power over their wives and families .
The group has been described by some as “ cult-like.
” The Senate did not question Barrett about People of Praise directly during her 2017 confirmation hearing for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit .
But California Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein did question Barrett about her views on Roe v. Wade @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : This all comes as President Trump is scheduled to speak this morning at the National Catholic Prayer Breakfast .
Well , for more , we ’ re joined by Heidi Schlumpf .
She ’ s the executive editor of the National Catholic Reporter .
In 2018 , she wrote the piece “ Prospective Supreme Court nominee puts spotlight on People of Praise.
” She ’ s joining us from Chicago .
Welcome to Democracy Now !
, Heidi .
Why don ’ t you start off by telling us a brief biography @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of Praise is ?
HEIDI SCHLUMPF : Thank you , Amy , so much for having me .
And I ’ m happy to talk to you this morning .
So , Amy Coney Barrett is , like your introduction said , a Catholic judge .
She has also been a professor at the Law School at the University of Notre Dame .
She is a conservative judge , an originalist , as we would probably expect to be at the top of the list of this president and leader in this party @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that said she has been groomed for this moment since as early as her first year in law school by a group of faculty at the University of Notre Dame ’ s Law School who were strongly opposed to Roe v. Wade .
So , she ’ s on the list from the Federalist Society , and we have a connection there to that National Catholic Prayer Breakfast that ’ s about to start later this morning .
The founder of the National Catholic Prayer Breakfast , Leonard Leo , was also the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ which has for decades been trying to reshape the judiciary , especially around some of these culture warrior issues like abortion and LGBT rights .
So , one of the reasons that Amy Barrett was not questioned about her membership in this group within Catholicism called the People of Praise is that she did not disclose it on her questionnaire back in 2017 .
But when her name was floated to the top of a list when Justice Kennedy retired back in 2018 , that ’ s when many people started asking questions @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , the People of Praise is a covenanted community , which means that its members sign a covenant or make a covenant to one another .
And I just want to say at the beginning here that I don ’ t think there ’ s anything wrong with practicing your faith .
I ’ m a Catholic .
And I think many people join groups of other like-minded people .
The level of commitment that you see in these covenanted communities is admirable .
However , because of some of the secretness and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of these communities , as well as some allegations by members who have left , of authoritarianism , there ’ s some real concerns about whether her involvement in there will affect her ability to be impartial and fair as a judge .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : And , Heidi Schlumpf , could you talk about some of those alleged authoritarian practices ?
Some of the descriptions that I ’ ve heard , of this complete submission to the will of your husband , and the involvement of leaders of the group in the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s functioning .
Could you talk about some of those practices ?
And also , what is the response of the Catholic hierarchy to groups within the Catholic Church that , by all appearances , appear to be cults ?
HEIDI SCHLUMPF : Yeah .
So , I would say , just to take your second question first , that the charismatic movement in the Catholic Church , which goes back to like the 1970s , is something that is accepted by the Catholic Church , but not everyone who is a charismatic @ @ @ @ @ @ @ someone who has a personal experience of God , kind of directly through the Holy Spirit , and often results in different gifts of the Holy Spirit , like speaking in tongues or healing or prophecy .
So , this whole idea of charismatic experience within Catholicism is something that the church is OK with .
A number of these covenanted communities are kind of a subgroup of charismatics .
And there ’ s a number of these other communities , that we ’ ve reported on at NCROnline several times : Word @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , Lord ’ s Ranch , the Mother of God Community .
I looked specifically at the People of Praise , which , to be quite honest , has fewer criticisms than some of these other organizations .
But what you have is a setup in which these members of the community — and there are about a little under 2,000 of them in the People of Praise , spread out over various number of cities — most of them are Catholic , but it is an ecumenical group .
They belong to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ church .
But then , usually on Sunday afternoons , they get together for their own sort of prayer service , and then they also may meet in smaller groups throughout the week , single-gender groups .
But then you ’ re asking about this idea that they have a head or someone who is kind of like a spiritual adviser .
And for a man , their spiritual adviser would be another man in the community .
For a single woman , your spiritual adviser would be another woman .
But within @ @ @ @ @ @ @ adviser is her husband .
And this whole language of “ handmaiden , ” which , of course , is scriptural , and obviously has a very negative connotation now because of the Margaret Atwood book and series , is something that sort of reinforces a patriarchy that not only this group but a number of evangelical Christians have , that see husbands as the head of the family and the decision makers , and , consequently , women in a more submissive or subordinate role .
So , there ’ s also @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not so much as a problem with People of Praise , that have some history of being very authoritarian .
The decisions that a head might discuss with their advisee , I guess , could be anything around where you should live , who you should marry , where your children should go to school .
But a member that I interviewed who was a current member said it ’ s everything from those kinds of important decisions to , you know , redecorating their house .
So , there ’ s nothing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a spiritual adviser , but the secrecy involved in this organization does raise some red flags , as do some of the reports from people who have left .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : And who is the leadership of the People of Praise , given the fact that the members pledge loyalty to the group , and obviously the decisions of the leaders would have an influence , let ’ s say , in the case of Amy Barrett ?
HEIDI SCHLUMPF : Yeah .
So , the leader I spoke to back in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the head , is Craig Lent .
He is a professor at Notre Dame .
And I will tell you , I know a number of folks in South Bend — I ’ m a Notre Dame grad myself — who know people who belong to the People of Praise , or I know people who send their children to the People of Praise ’ s schools .
So , they have a number of private schools , including in South Bend .
And what I hear from them is they ’ re @ @ @ @ @ @ @ know , very normal .
That said , because there is a level of secrecy — for example , I tried very hard to get a copy of the covenant , which I understand is a few sentences that the covenanted members make to one another , and they were very reluctant to have that be public in any way .
So , those kinds of secrecy things , I think , are what bring people to use language about like cults .
I ’ m not sure that I would call it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that some of those concerns about authoritarianism , secrecy — it is true , I heard from a number of other members that I spoke with or chat rooms where I read what they were saying , is that when they were trying to leave the organization , there was a level of shunning of them , as well .
AMY GOODMAN : I wanted to ask you about this pledging of lifelong loyalty to the group , which assigns each member a personal adviser , known as “ heads ” for men @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ” for women .
The secretive group has a strictly patriarchal structure in which men are the heads of the household , as you said , with power over their wives and families .
The group has been described by some as “ cult-like.
” And Margaret Atwood has talked about various Catholic charismatic groups .
The group she based Handmaid ’ s Tale on was People of Hope in New Jersey , not the South Bend People of Praise .
But , of course , that term is so significant , that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sic ] until recently .
Atwood told The New York Times , “ I delayed writing it for about three years after I got the idea because I felt it was too crazy .
Then … I started noticing that a lot of the things I thought I was more or less making up were now happening , and indeed more of them have happened since the publication of the book .
There is a sect now , a Catholic charismatic spinoff sect , which calls the women handmaids .
They don ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ kind but they do threaten the handmaids according to the biblical verse I use in the book — sit down and shut up , ” she said .
Now , again , that ’ s a different charismatic Catholic group , a kind of spinoff , People of Hope .
Explain the difference .
And also , if you could respond to — I mean , the unfortunate questioning of Feinstein when she said to Amy Barrett , “ The dogma lives loudly within you , ” was then , you know , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And she said , “ I can separate my religious views from my legal opinions.
” “ The dogma lives loudly within you ” was Feinstein ’ s comment .
And if you can talk about that and whether that will prevent people from questioning Amy Coney Barrett about her views and how they affect her legal decisions ?
HEIDI SCHLUMPF : Well , just to go back to the People of Hope , so , the People of Hope , I ’ m less familiar with — excuse me — but I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ number of folks who grew up in some of these covenanted communities , and there is a history of allegations , especially by folks who have chosen to leave it , of problematic authoritarianism .
I think there ’ s — it ’ s interesting to note that , historically , there ’ s nothing inherently conservative about the charismatic movement .
So , if you ’ re having this personal relationship with the Holy Spirit and with God , God could also , you know , tell you to be a progressive @ @ @ @ @ @ @ But many charismatic movements have aligned themselves or are very similar to Pentecostalism and Protestantism , and so we have this sort of combining of conservative Catholicism , with all of its teachings around gender roles , anti-gay marriage and these sorts of things , that then get sort of connected with these charismatic groups .
So , I think what — many people ’ s concern isn ’ t that she ’ s the member of a religious community .
Obviously , you know , this is not simple anti-Catholicism .
If @ @ @ @ @ @ @ being on the Supreme Court , why do we have so many Catholic justices already ?
But it ’ s this particular group , its secretiveness .
And then also it does have — and she has specifically spoken about her own views on abortion , on even the death penalty , in terms of church teaching on that , on gay marriage .
I do think it ’ s somewhat ironic that if — HEIDI SCHLUMPF : Yeah , opposed to the death penalty , yes , opposed to abortion , opposed @ @ @ @ @ @ @ HEIDI SCHLUMPF : I do think — go ahead .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : I wanted to ask you , given the fact that one of the apparent principles of People of Praise is that a wife must be submissive to the will of her husband , and that in this case Amy Barrett ’ s husband is a member of the group , as well , what does this say about her ability to make independent decisions , apart from what her husband might think , when she ’ s on the court @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , I can ’ t speak to that specifically , although , you know , it ’ s possible that there could be somebody nominated to the court who has that belief and it ’ s not known in a public way , because of — her membership in this group , it ’ s known .
And I think that is a fair question for her , if she were to be nominated and at a confirmation hearing .
So , obviously , when the Senate is looking to confirm someone to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ position , I think all kinds of questions about someone ’ s beliefs , including their religious beliefs and their membership in certain organizations , is fair game .
Now , I think the Democrats are going to be in a tough position , as it ’ s increasingly looking like this hearing could be happening before the election .
So they have to be careful not to be appearing to ask her questions that are perceived by some as insulting her or anti-Catholic , insulting her religion .
Obviously , Joe Biden @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to reach out to religious voters , moderate religious voters , during the campaign and wouldn ’ t want to undo all that .
I know there are conservative Catholics who proudly say , “ The dogma lives in me , ” to what Dianne Feinstein said .
The only thing I can say is that it must be that Amy Barrett ’ s husband wants her to be on the Supreme Court , because — it is somewhat ironic , you know , if that ’ s what he ’ s encouraging @ @ @ @ @ @ @ somewhat ironic that in a group that believes in the submission of women , we have a woman from that group who is potentially going to be on the highest court in the land .
AMY GOODMAN : Before we go to a former member of People of Praise , I wanted to go to Amy Coney Barrett ’ s views on the ACA — extremely relevant .
In a 2017 law review , she criticized Chief Justice John Roberts for voting to uphold the Affordable Care Act in 2013 .
She wrote @ @ @ @ @ @ @ pushed the Affordable Care Act beyond its plausible meaning to save the statute .
He construed the penalty imposed on those without health insurance as a tax , which permitted him to sustain the statute as a valid exercise of the taxing power ; had he treated the payment as the statute did—as a penalty—he would have had to invalidate the statute as lying beyond Congress ’ s commerce power.
” It ’ s a little hard to understand , but it ’ s extremely significant , because if Amy Coney Barrett was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ court before November 10th , those are the date of the oral arguments on the ACA , which could strike the whole thing down .
Heidi , your final comments on this ?
HEIDI SCHLUMPF : Yeah .
So , I do think that she is a conservative judge , and she is a conservative Catholic .
And the Catholic Church in the United States has long supported the Affordable Care Act , especially after the accommodations were made for Catholic employers that didn ’ t want to provide contraceptive coverage .
So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ if she sides with church leaders on that one or not .
She has said that she would not have her faith affect her decisions as a judge .
She had written a law review article once saying that judges would have to recuse themselves , for example , from capital punishment cases .
She does at least have consistency on that pro-life issue , the capital punishment and abortion .
But if she does get confirmed , it would be very interesting to see what she does .
She may surprise us @ @ @ @ @ @ @ than we expect from them .
AMY GOODMAN : Heidi Schlumpf , we want to thank you so much for being with us , executive editor of the National Catholic Reporter .
In 2018 , she wrote the piece “ Prospective Supreme Court nominee puts spotlight on People of Praise.
” When we come back , we ’ ll be joined by a former member of the group who likens People of Praise to a cult .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We begin today’s show looking at the future of the Supreme Court. On Tuesday, Utah Republican Senator Mitt Romney said he’ll support a floor vote for President Trump’s nominee to replace Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who died last week at the age of 87.
SEN. MITT ROMNEY: My liberal friends have, over many decades, gotten very used to the idea of having a liberal court. And that’s not written in the stars.
AMY GOODMAN: The announcement means Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has the support of 51 Republican senators he needs to rapidly push forward with a vote on Justice Ginsburg’s replacement, just 41 days before the November election. In 2016, McConnell refused to hold confirmation hearings for Merrick Garland, President Obama’s nominee to replace Justice Antonin Scalia, who died nearly nine months before the election. At the time, McConnell said, quote, “The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court justice.”
President Trump has said he will name his nominee by Saturday and that it will be a woman. The front-runner appears to be U.S. Court of Appeals Judge Amy Coney Barrett, who met with Trump on Monday. Barrett is a devout Catholic who’s taken conservative stances on abortion, gun rights and immigration. The Human Rights Campaign has called her a, quote, “absolute threat to LGBTQ rights,” unquote.
One issue that’s likely to be raised if Judge Barrett is nominated to the Supreme Court is her membership in a secretive Catholic group called People of Praise. Members of the group pledge a lifelong loyalty oath to the group, which assigns each member a personal adviser known as “heads” for men and, until recently, “handmaids” for women. The secretive group has a strictly patriarchal structure in which men are the heads of household with power over their wives and families. The group has been described by some as “cult-like.”
The Senate did not question Barrett about People of Praise directly during her 2017 confirmation hearing for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit. But California Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein did question Barrett about her views on Roe v. Wade and her religious views.
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN: Why is it that so many of us on this side have this very uncomfortable feeling that, you know, dogma and law are two different things? And I think whatever a religion is, it has its own dogma. The law is totally different. And I think, in your case, Professor, when you read your speeches, the conclusion one draws is that the dogma lives loudly within you. And that’s of concern when you come to big issues that large numbers of people have fought for for years in this country.
AMY CONEY BARRETT: I’m being considered for a position on a court of appeals, and there would be no opportunity to be a “no” vote on Roe. And as I said to the committee, I would faithfully apply all Supreme Court precedent.
AMY GOODMAN: This all comes as President Trump is scheduled to speak this morning at the National Catholic Prayer Breakfast.
Well, for more, we’re joined by Heidi Schlumpf. She’s the executive editor of the National Catholic Reporter. In 2018, she wrote the piece “Prospective Supreme Court nominee puts spotlight on People of Praise.” She’s joining us from Chicago.
Welcome to Democracy Now!, Heidi. Why don’t you start off by telling us a brief biography of Amy Coney Barrett and what People of Praise is?
HEIDI SCHLUMPF: Thank you, Amy, so much for having me. And I’m happy to talk to you this morning.
So, Amy Coney Barrett is, like your introduction said, a Catholic judge. She has also been a professor at the Law School at the University of Notre Dame. She is a conservative judge, an originalist, as we would probably expect to be at the top of the list of this president and leader in this party. I’ve seen some reporting that said she has been groomed for this moment since as early as her first year in law school by a group of faculty at the University of Notre Dame’s Law School who were strongly opposed to Roe v. Wade. So, she’s on the list from the Federalist Society, and we have a connection there to that National Catholic Prayer Breakfast that’s about to start later this morning. The founder of the National Catholic Prayer Breakfast, Leonard Leo, was also the longtime leader of the Federalist Society, which has for decades been trying to reshape the judiciary, especially around some of these culture warrior issues like abortion and LGBT rights.
So, one of the reasons that Amy Barrett was not questioned about her membership in this group within Catholicism called the People of Praise is that she did not disclose it on her questionnaire back in 2017. But when her name was floated to the top of a list when Justice Kennedy retired back in 2018, that’s when many people started asking questions about the People of Praise.
So, the People of Praise is a covenanted community, which means that its members sign a covenant or make a covenant to one another. And I just want to say at the beginning here that I don’t think there’s anything wrong with practicing your faith. I’m a Catholic. And I think many people join groups of other like-minded people. The level of commitment that you see in these covenanted communities is admirable. However, because of some of the secretness and some of the beliefs of a number of these communities, as well as some allegations by members who have left, of authoritarianism, there’s some real concerns about whether her involvement in there will affect her ability to be impartial and fair as a judge.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Heidi Schlumpf, could you talk about some of those alleged authoritarian practices? Some of the descriptions that I’ve heard, of this complete submission to the will of your husband, and the involvement of leaders of the group in the most intimate parts of a family’s functioning. Could you talk about some of those practices? And also, what is the response of the Catholic hierarchy to groups within the Catholic Church that, by all appearances, appear to be cults?
HEIDI SCHLUMPF: Yeah. So, I would say, just to take your second question first, that the charismatic movement in the Catholic Church, which goes back to like the 1970s, is something that is accepted by the Catholic Church, but not everyone who is a charismatic Catholic — “charismatic” referring to someone who has a personal experience of God, kind of directly through the Holy Spirit, and often results in different gifts of the Holy Spirit, like speaking in tongues or healing or prophecy. So, this whole idea of charismatic experience within Catholicism is something that the church is OK with.
A number of these covenanted communities are kind of a subgroup of charismatics. And there’s a number of these other communities, that we’ve reported on at NCROnline several times: Word of God, Sword of the Spirit, Lord’s Ranch, the Mother of God Community.
I looked specifically at the People of Praise, which, to be quite honest, has fewer criticisms than some of these other organizations. But what you have is a setup in which these members of the community — and there are about a little under 2,000 of them in the People of Praise, spread out over various number of cities — most of them are Catholic, but it is an ecumenical group. They belong to regular parishes and worship at their local church. But then, usually on Sunday afternoons, they get together for their own sort of prayer service, and then they also may meet in smaller groups throughout the week, single-gender groups.
But then you’re asking about this idea that they have a head or someone who is kind of like a spiritual adviser. And for a man, their spiritual adviser would be another man in the community. For a single woman, your spiritual adviser would be another woman. But within marriage, the wife’s spiritual adviser is her husband. And this whole language of “handmaiden,” which, of course, is scriptural, and obviously has a very negative connotation now because of the Margaret Atwood book and series, is something that sort of reinforces a patriarchy that not only this group but a number of evangelical Christians have, that see husbands as the head of the family and the decision makers, and, consequently, women in a more submissive or subordinate role.
So, there’s also founders of some of these groups, not so much as a problem with People of Praise, that have some history of being very authoritarian. The decisions that a head might discuss with their advisee, I guess, could be anything around where you should live, who you should marry, where your children should go to school. But a member that I interviewed who was a current member said it’s everything from those kinds of important decisions to, you know, redecorating their house. So, there’s nothing wrong, again, with somebody having a spiritual adviser, but the secrecy involved in this organization does raise some red flags, as do some of the reports from people who have left.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And who is the leadership of the People of Praise, given the fact that the members pledge loyalty to the group, and obviously the decisions of the leaders would have an influence, let’s say, in the case of Amy Barrett?
HEIDI SCHLUMPF: Yeah. So, the leader I spoke to back in 2018, who I believe is still the head, is Craig Lent. He is a professor at Notre Dame. And I will tell you, I know a number of folks in South Bend — I’m a Notre Dame grad myself — who know people who belong to the People of Praise, or I know people who send their children to the People of Praise’s schools. So, they have a number of private schools, including in South Bend. And what I hear from them is they’re perfectly nice people and very — you know, very normal.
That said, because there is a level of secrecy — for example, I tried very hard to get a copy of the covenant, which I understand is a few sentences that the covenanted members make to one another, and they were very reluctant to have that be public in any way. So, those kinds of secrecy things, I think, are what bring people to use language about like cults. I’m not sure that I would call it a cult, but I would say that some of those concerns about authoritarianism, secrecy — it is true, I heard from a number of other members that I spoke with or chat rooms where I read what they were saying, is that when they were trying to leave the organization, there was a level of shunning of them, as well.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you about this pledging of lifelong loyalty to the group, which assigns each member a personal adviser, known as “heads” for men and, until recently, “handmaids” for women. The secretive group has a strictly patriarchal structure in which men are the heads of the household, as you said, with power over their wives and families. The group has been described by some as “cult-like.”
And Margaret Atwood has talked about various Catholic charismatic groups. The group she based Handmaid’s Tale on was People of Hope in New Jersey, not the South Bend People of Praise. But, of course, that term is so significant, that they used “handmaids” tale [sic] until recently. Atwood told The New York Times, “I delayed writing it for about three years after I got the idea because I felt it was too crazy. Then … I started noticing that a lot of the things I thought I was more or less making up were now happening, and indeed more of them have happened since the publication of the book. There is a sect now, a Catholic charismatic spinoff sect, which calls the women handmaids. They don’t go in for polygamy of this kind but they do threaten the handmaids according to the biblical verse I use in the book — sit down and shut up,” she said. Now, again, that’s a different charismatic Catholic group, a kind of spinoff, People of Hope. Explain the difference.
And also, if you could respond to — I mean, the unfortunate questioning of Feinstein when she said to Amy Barrett, “The dogma lives loudly within you,” was then, you know, people took great umbrage at that. And she said, “I can separate my religious views from my legal opinions.” “The dogma lives loudly within you” was Feinstein’s comment. And if you can talk about that and whether that will prevent people from questioning Amy Coney Barrett about her views and how they affect her legal decisions?
HEIDI SCHLUMPF: Well, just to go back to the People of Hope, so, the People of Hope, I’m less familiar with — excuse me — but I would say that I have followed a number of folks who grew up in some of these covenanted communities, and there is a history of allegations, especially by folks who have chosen to leave it, of problematic authoritarianism.
I think there’s — it’s interesting to note that, historically, there’s nothing inherently conservative about the charismatic movement. So, if you’re having this personal relationship with the Holy Spirit and with God, God could also, you know, tell you to be a progressive Catholic, I suppose, too. But many charismatic movements have aligned themselves or are very similar to Pentecostalism and Protestantism, and so we have this sort of combining of conservative Catholicism, with all of its teachings around gender roles, anti-gay marriage and these sorts of things, that then get sort of connected with these charismatic groups.
So, I think what — many people’s concern isn’t that she’s the member of a religious community. Obviously, you know, this is not simple anti-Catholicism. If being a Catholic was a problem for being on the Supreme Court, why do we have so many Catholic justices already? But it’s this particular group, its secretiveness. And then also it does have — and she has specifically spoken about her own views on abortion, on even the death penalty, in terms of church teaching on that, on gay marriage. I do think it’s somewhat ironic that if —
AMY GOODMAN: Opposed to all.
HEIDI SCHLUMPF: Yeah, opposed to the death penalty, yes, opposed to abortion, opposed to gay marriage. And so —
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I —
HEIDI SCHLUMPF: I do think — go ahead.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I wanted to ask you, given the fact that one of the apparent principles of People of Praise is that a wife must be submissive to the will of her husband, and that in this case Amy Barrett’s husband is a member of the group, as well, what does this say about her ability to make independent decisions, apart from what her husband might think, when she’s on the court?
HEIDI SCHLUMPF: Yeah. So, I can’t speak to that specifically, although, you know, it’s possible that there could be somebody nominated to the court who has that belief and it’s not known in a public way, because of — her membership in this group, it’s known. And I think that is a fair question for her, if she were to be nominated and at a confirmation hearing. So, obviously, when the Senate is looking to confirm someone to such an important position, a lifelong position, I think all kinds of questions about someone’s beliefs, including their religious beliefs and their membership in certain organizations, is fair game.
Now, I think the Democrats are going to be in a tough position, as it’s increasingly looking like this hearing could be happening before the election. So they have to be careful not to be appearing to ask her questions that are perceived by some as insulting her or anti-Catholic, insulting her religion. Obviously, Joe Biden and the Democrats have done a lot to reach out to religious voters, moderate religious voters, during the campaign and wouldn’t want to undo all that. I know there are conservative Catholics who proudly say, “The dogma lives in me,” to what Dianne Feinstein said.
The only thing I can say is that it must be that Amy Barrett’s husband wants her to be on the Supreme Court, because — it is somewhat ironic, you know, if that’s what he’s encouraging her to do, because it is somewhat ironic that in a group that believes in the submission of women, we have a woman from that group who is potentially going to be on the highest court in the land.
AMY GOODMAN: Before we go to a former member of People of Praise, I wanted to go to Amy Coney Barrett’s views on the ACA — extremely relevant. In a 2017 law review, she criticized Chief Justice John Roberts for voting to uphold the Affordable Care Act in 2013. She wrote, quote, “Chief Justice Roberts pushed the Affordable Care Act beyond its plausible meaning to save the statute. He construed the penalty imposed on those without health insurance as a tax, which permitted him to sustain the statute as a valid exercise of the taxing power; had he treated the payment as the statute did—as a penalty—he would have had to invalidate the statute as lying beyond Congress’s commerce power.” It’s a little hard to understand, but it’s extremely significant, because if Amy Coney Barrett was nominated, confirmed and sat on the court before November 10th, those are the date of the oral arguments on the ACA, which could strike the whole thing down. Heidi, your final comments on this?
HEIDI SCHLUMPF: Yeah. So, I do think that she is a conservative judge, and she is a conservative Catholic. And the Catholic Church in the United States has long supported the Affordable Care Act, especially after the accommodations were made for Catholic employers that didn’t want to provide contraceptive coverage. So, it will be interesting to see if she sides with church leaders on that one or not.
She has said that she would not have her faith affect her decisions as a judge. She had written a law review article once saying that judges would have to recuse themselves, for example, from capital punishment cases. She does at least have consistency on that pro-life issue, the capital punishment and abortion. But if she does get confirmed, it would be very interesting to see what she does. She may surprise us. Sometimes judges do very different things than we expect from them.
AMY GOODMAN: Heidi Schlumpf, we want to thank you so much for being with us, executive editor of the National Catholic Reporter. In 2018, she wrote the piece “Prospective Supreme Court nominee puts spotlight on People of Praise.”
When we come back, we’ll be joined by a former member of the group who likens People of Praise to a cult. Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-09-23--Headlines for September 23, 2020

Headlines for September 23, 2020

The official United States death toll from COVID-19 has passed 200,000 — by far the highest in the world — @ @ @ @ @ warned the U.S. is on track to double that toll by year ’ s end @ @ @ @ @ hours alone , the U.S. reported nearly a thousand new deaths and over 37,000 new @ @ @ @ @ Montana , Utah , Wisconsin and Wyoming reporting record levels of infections over the past @ @ @ @ @ the COVID-19 Memorial Project placed 20,000 flags across the National Mall , each one symbolizing @ @ @ @ @ died of the disease since the first recorded U.S. death in February .
House Speaker @ @ @ @ @ memorial for the dead .
Speaker Nancy Pelosi : “ This was preventable — not @ @ @ @ @ much of it .
And what could be lost in the future is preventable , @ @ @ @ @ science , science instead of politics .
”

The official United States death toll from COVID-19 has passed 200,000 — by far the highest in the world — as University of Washington researchers warned the U.S. is on track to double that toll by year’s end. In the past 24 hours alone, the U.S. reported nearly a thousand new deaths and over 37,000 new cases — with Minnesota, Montana, Utah, Wisconsin and Wyoming reporting record levels of infections over the past week.
On Tuesday, the COVID-19 Memorial Project placed 20,000 flags across the National Mall, each one symbolizing 10 U.S. residents who have died of the disease since the first recorded U.S. death in February. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi spoke at a memorial for the dead.


democracynow--2020-09-24--"Two Systems of Justice": Jacob Blake's Father on Son's Case, Breonna Taylor & Black Lives Matter

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Nermeen Shaikh .
As outrage mounts over the grand jury ruling in the police killing of Breonna Taylor , we turn to Wisconsin , where the investigation into the police shooting of Jacob Blake is in its final stages .
Jake Blake ’ s case became a flashpoint for national protest after the African American father was shot in the back by Kenosha police seven times @ @ @ @ @ @ @ police officer Rusten Sheskey fired the shots at point-blank range into Jacob Blake ’ s back as Blake leaned into his car .
Inside the car were his three boys , aged 3 , 5 and 8 .
Prosecutors in Wisconsin have tapped former Madison Police Chief Noble Wray to serve as an independent voice during the final stages of the investigation into the shooting .
Wray will review the state Department of Justice ’ s findings before a report is sent to Kenosha County District Attorney Michael Graveley , who will ultimately @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the police officers .
Well , for more , we ’ re going to Milwaukee , where we ’ re joined by Jacob Blake Sr. , the father of Jake Blake Jr .
He has been fighting for justice for his son , alongside the parents of Breonna Taylor , George Floyd and others .
Jacob Blake Sr. , welcome to Democracy Now !
AMY GOODMAN : We ’ re so sorry about what happened to your son .
If you can respond to the decision that just has come down in Louisville @ @ @ @ @ @ @ your son Jake , in the hospital now ?
JACOB BLAKE SR. : Well , what happened in Louisville shows the two systems of justice in the United States , clear and cut .
If a young lady is murdered by the police , someone is responsible for that death , if the police were involved .
But when it ’ s a Brown person , we don ’ t find the quick or the swift end of justice .
Jacob is doing much better .
And his spirits are better .
You @ @ @ @ @ @ @ him because of the pain , but we stand in support of my son , as well as George Floyd ’ s family and the Taylor family .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : And , Mr. Jacob Blake , where is the process with the grand jury in your son ’ s case ?
JACOB BLAKE SR. : Right now they ’ ve brought in an ex-police chief to do some investigation of what the district attorney has come up with at this point .
AMY GOODMAN : Can you talk about that day , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you ?
You weren ’ t in Kenosha when your son was shot by police officers .
Talk about where you were and how you got the news , and then your response to the video .
JACOB BLAKE SR. : I was driving on South Boulevard in Charlotte , North Carolina , where I reside .
And I got a phone call , and my phone was connected to my car .
And all I heard was his mother screaming , “ He ’ s shot !
He ’ s shot !
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ said , “ Who shot who ?
” And she said , “ The police shot Jacob.
” And it ’ s almost like it rewinds in my head every day .
I hear that phone call in my sleep , when I ’ m awake .
And I can ’ t even explain to you the emotion that you have as a parent when that phone call comes to you .
And I didn ’ t have a Starship Enterprise .
I couldn ’ t beam up to Milwaukee .
So I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ day .
Two days ago before the phone call , I had just got back , arrived back from Chicago .
So now I knew I had to turn around and head back to Milwaukee .
And it was just — I do not remember driving in the mountains .
I do not remember driving through Kentucky .
I don ’ t remember .
All I remember is walking in the hospital .
AMY GOODMAN : And that day that your son was shot was supposed to be such a happy day , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ — JACOB BLAKE SR. : It started out as a happy day .
My grandson , two hours before I got the call from his mother — maybe three hours .
I really — that day is such a blur , I can ’ t tell you exactly .
All I can tell you is how happy he was and the things that he — he had a list of things that he wanted his father to get .
And we were laughing .
And I said , “ Man , well , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ your day today , baby.
” And he laughed .
And I said , “ Just call me back later , you know , when they sing or cut the cake or whatever.
” And he said , “ We ’ re going to call ” — well , my grandchildren , all of them call me Papa .
So , “ Papa , we ’ re going to call you back .
I ’ m going to show — I ’ m going to call you so you can see what I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ — just , you know , you can ’ t measure the happiness , but you could see the happiness .
I could see the happiness in his voice .
It just came through the phone , a picture of happiness , just an 8-year-old just happy to be with his dad .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to go to the first news conference .
We didn ’ t expect you were going to be speaking .
I believe one of the lawyers said you wouldn ’ t be .
But can @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we go to that clip ?
JACOB BLAKE SR. : I had so many different emotions .
You know , you have a father protective mode and a father worried mode .
I was so tired .
I had driven all night .
And the news conference was that day .
And it was — I was , at that particular time , on an emotional roller coaster .
AMY GOODMAN : So , let ’ s go to that moment where both you speak , as well as — this is you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ repeatedly said , also at the March on Washington , your son is human , as if you have to say that .
Tell us who your son is , and also your father , your son ’ s grandfather , who was so well known in Chicago as a civil rights leader , the Reverend Jacob Blake .
JACOB BLAKE SR. : Excuse me for a moment .
I ’ m sorry .
My son is a happy — AMY GOODMAN : Take as much time as you need , Mr. Blake @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what ’ s happened to your son and , of course , what ’ s happened to your whole family as a result .
JACOB BLAKE SR. : He was a — a jokester as a kid .
He was a happy-go-lucky , smiling jokester .
And he thought everything was funny .
And I can hear him laughing as a kid .
And as he got older , me and him had a special type of relationship , and it was almost like he was my best little friend at times .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ know , he ’ s heading towards 30 — as a father , your relationship changes with your children , because now they see the things that you went through as a 30-year-old parent , so they respect you in a different way .
And you share moments with each other that are priceless .
My father , being a civil rights leader , taught me and gave me the ability to be the man that I am today — firm , confident , unshakable .
Now , in regards to the emotional @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you guys got me with when I was listening to Breonna ’ s boyfriend and that 911 call .
He was scared to death .
Why are our children scared to death of people that are supposed to protect and serve them ?
In 2020 , why do I have to continuously tell people that my son is a human being ?
Why are we looked at like we ’ re animals ?
It ’ s not a good place to be in .
My father got beat for marching for civil rights @ @ @ @ @ @ @ re still trying to get equal rights .
At some point in time , you get tired .
There ’ s no avenue that ’ s given you directly to do what you need to do .
No one can explain to you what to do .
They tell you it takes time .
Well , how much time ?
They tell you to vote .
And we vote , and we ’ re going to keep voting .
We have to change these laws .
Amy , we have to do something @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to this point to where the whole world is seeing the two systems of justice .
And we ’ re not in the mood nor in the mindset of taking it anymore .
JACOB BLAKE SR. : What are we to do ?
AMY GOODMAN : We ’ re going to continue this discussion .
We ask you to stay with us .
And we ’ re going to post it online at democracynow.org .
Jacob Blake Sr. , father of Jacob Blake Jr. , shot seven times by a police officer in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Amy Goodman , with Nermeen Shaikh .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.
As outrage mounts over the grand jury ruling in the police killing of Breonna Taylor, we turn to Wisconsin, where the investigation into the police shooting of Jacob Blake is in its final stages. Jake Blake’s case became a flashpoint for national protest after the African American father was shot in the back by Kenosha police seven times in August, paralyzing him. White police officer Rusten Sheskey fired the shots at point-blank range into Jacob Blake’s back as Blake leaned into his car. Inside the car were his three boys, aged 3, 5 and 8.
Prosecutors in Wisconsin have tapped former Madison Police Chief Noble Wray to serve as an independent voice during the final stages of the investigation into the shooting. Wray will review the state Department of Justice’s findings before a report is sent to Kenosha County District Attorney Michael Graveley, who will ultimately decide whether charges should be filed against the police officers.
Well, for more, we’re going to Milwaukee, where we’re joined by Jacob Blake Sr., the father of Jake Blake Jr. He has been fighting for justice for his son, alongside the parents of Breonna Taylor, George Floyd and others.
Jacob Blake Sr., welcome to Democracy Now!
JACOB BLAKE SR.: Good morning. Good morning.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re so sorry about what happened to your son. If you can respond to the decision that just has come down in Louisville, and then talk about how is your son Jake, in the hospital now?
JACOB BLAKE SR.: Well, what happened in Louisville shows the two systems of justice in the United States, clear and cut. If a young lady is murdered by the police, someone is responsible for that death, if the police were involved. But when it’s a Brown person, we don’t find the quick or the swift end of justice.
Jacob is doing much better. And his spirits are better. You know, it’s hard for him because of the pain, but we stand in support of my son, as well as George Floyd’s family and the Taylor family.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Mr. Jacob Blake, where is the process with the grand jury in your son’s case?
JACOB BLAKE SR.: Right now they’ve brought in an ex-police chief to do some investigation of what the district attorney has come up with at this point.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about that day, which I know is extremely painful for you? You weren’t in Kenosha when your son was shot by police officers. Talk about where you were and how you got the news, and then your response to the video.
JACOB BLAKE SR.: I was driving on South Boulevard in Charlotte, North Carolina, where I reside. And I got a phone call, and my phone was connected to my car. And all I heard was his mother screaming, “He’s shot! He’s shot! They shot him!” And I said, “Who shot who?” And she said, “The police shot Jacob.”
And it’s almost like it rewinds in my head every day. I hear that phone call in my sleep, when I’m awake. And I can’t even explain to you the emotion that you have as a parent when that phone call comes to you. And I didn’t have a Starship Enterprise. I couldn’t beam up to Milwaukee. So I was — I had been up all day. Two days ago before the phone call, I had just got back, arrived back from Chicago. So now I knew I had to turn around and head back to Milwaukee. And it was just — I do not remember driving in the mountains. I do not remember driving through Kentucky. I don’t remember. All I remember is walking in the hospital.
AMY GOODMAN: And that day that your son was shot was supposed to be such a happy day, is that right? Your little grandson —
JACOB BLAKE SR.: It started out as a happy day. My grandson, two hours before I got the call from his mother — maybe three hours. I really — that day is such a blur, I can’t tell you exactly. All I can tell you is how happy he was and the things that he — he had a list of things that he wanted his father to get. And we were laughing. And I said, “Man, well, you’re going to spend all your day today, baby.” And he laughed.
And I said, “Just call me back later, you know, when they sing or cut the cake or whatever.” And he said, “We’re going to call” — well, my grandchildren, all of them call me Papa. So, “Papa, we’re going to call you back. I’m going to show — I’m going to call you so you can see what I got.”
I remember hearing his little — just, you know, you can’t measure the happiness, but you could see the happiness. I could see the happiness in his voice. It just came through the phone, a picture of happiness, just an 8-year-old just happy to be with his dad.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to go to the first news conference. We didn’t expect you were going to be speaking. I believe one of the lawyers said you wouldn’t be. But can you talk about that day, before we go to that clip?
JACOB BLAKE SR.: I had so many different emotions. You know, you have a father protective mode and a father worried mode. I was so tired. I had driven all night. And the news conference was that day. And it was — I was, at that particular time, on an emotional roller coaster.
AMY GOODMAN: So, let’s go to that moment where both you speak, as well as — this is you.
JACOB BLAKE SR.: They shot my son seven times — seven times — like he didn’t matter. But my son matters. … How would you feel if your white son walked up to you, as a mother, and said, “Mommy, why did the police shoot my daddy in the back?” You have no clue.
AMY GOODMAN: And you have repeatedly said, also at the March on Washington, your son is human, as if you have to say that. Tell us who your son is, and also your father, your son’s grandfather, who was so well known in Chicago as a civil rights leader, the Reverend Jacob Blake.
JACOB BLAKE SR.: Excuse me for a moment. I’m sorry. My son is a happy —
AMY GOODMAN: Take as much time as you need, Mr. Blake. We are so terribly sorry about what’s happened to your son and, of course, what’s happened to your whole family as a result.
JACOB BLAKE SR.: He was a — a jokester as a kid. He was a happy-go-lucky, smiling jokester. And he thought everything was funny. And I can hear him laughing as a kid. And as he got older, me and him had a special type of relationship, and it was almost like he was my best little friend at times. But knowing he was older — you know, he’s heading towards 30 — as a father, your relationship changes with your children, because now they see the things that you went through as a 30-year-old parent, so they respect you in a different way. And you share moments with each other that are priceless.
My father, being a civil rights leader, taught me and gave me the ability to be the man that I am today — firm, confident, unshakable.
Now, in regards to the emotional way that some things get me, you guys got me with when I was listening to Breonna’s boyfriend and that 911 call. He was scared to death. Why are our children scared to death of people that are supposed to protect and serve them? In 2020, why do I have to continuously tell people that my son is a human being? Why are we looked at like we’re animals? It’s not a good place to be in.
My father got beat for marching for civil rights 50 years ago, and we’re still trying to get equal rights. At some point in time, you get tired. There’s no avenue that’s given you directly to do what you need to do. No one can explain to you what to do. They tell you it takes time. Well, how much time? They tell you to vote. And we vote, and we’re going to keep voting.
We have to change these laws. Amy, we have to do something, because we’ve come up to this point to where the whole world is seeing the two systems of justice. And we’re not in the mood nor in the mindset of taking it anymore.
AMY GOODMAN: Jacob Blake —
JACOB BLAKE SR.: What are we to do?
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to continue this discussion. We ask you to stay with us. And we’re going to post it online at democracynow.org. Jacob Blake Sr., father of Jacob Blake Jr., shot seven times by a police officer in Kenosha, Wisconsin. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.