democracynow--2020-11-20--Astra Taylor: Biden Can Cancel Student Debt on Day One. Movements Must Make Him Do It.

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : We ’ re going to turn right now to Astra Taylor .
Astra Taylor of the Debt Collective .
The protest comes as the incoming Biden administration is also facing increasing pressure to cancel all federal student loan debt .
On Wednesday , a group of 200 groups sent a letter to Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris urging them to “ use executive authority to cancel federal student debt on day one of their administration.
” So yes , we are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the filmmaker , to the organizer Astra Taylor , who is a member of the Debt Collective which has just published a book titled Can ’ t Pay , Won ’ t Pay : The Case for Economic Disobedience and Debt Abolition .
Astra wrote the foreword to the book as well as a new piece in The Guardian that ’ s headlined We ’ re being told Biden won ’ t be able to achieve much .
We must reject that idea .
We turn right to that theme .
Astra , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ does it mean to say that we must reject this idea that not much can be achieved during a Biden administration ?
ASTRA TAYLOR : First , thanks so much for having me .
Wonderful to follow up on those brave words from Representatives Cori Bush and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez .
The “ Biden , be brave ” rally also captures this spirit .
There was a sense right after the election , the election that is still unending , that because Democrats didn ’ t take the Senate that it would be impossible @ @ @ @ @ @ @ What is so great in this moment is how the grassroots are saying , “ No , we actually have a deep understanding of how power works and what power you will have , even if the Democrats do not manage to flip those Senate seats in Georgia.
” Of course flipping those seats would be ideal , keeping those seats and winning those for the Democrats would be ideal .
But nevertheless , there are things that Biden can do , if he ’ s willing to play hardball .
If he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that ’ s what the Republicans do and the Democrats need to do the same .
So there ’ s a movement afoot to pressure the Biden administration to do this , first by saying , “ We know that you possess this power.
” So for example , Biden can make appointments using the Vacancies Act , the Federal Vacancies Reform Act .
This is a power that Trump used even though he had the Senate on his side .
This essentially allows the president to appoint Cabinet-level posts , people who @ @ @ @ @ @ @ employees within certain agencies .
I would recommend people follow Demand Progress and the Revolving Door Project , which have been doing a lot of great work on this , essentially saying there is a way to put people in positions of power so that you can advance the progressive agenda that you were elected to advance .
Because as AOC made so clear , progressives won this election .
And in a moment of pandemic and economic crisis , we simply can not afford to have a government that fails to govern @ @ @ @ @ @ @ It ’ s also the self interest of the Democrats , because they will be crushed in 2022 or 2024 if they don ’ t do this .
So I am very heartened by movements paying attention of these sorts of things , thinking about staffing , thinking about important positions .
I think all of these social moments , whether we ’ re talking about climate change , whether we ’ re talking about economic justice , student debt—we recognize the importance of positions like the Treasury or the Office of Management @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s all interconnected .
And we need people who are committed to meeting the moment as opposed to the same old politics of austerity .
We need those people in place right now .
So the Debt Collective is very concerned , for example , with issues—who staffs the Department of Education , to ensure that we don ’ t have a repeat of the Obama-Biden administration .
We can not afford to have an Obama 2.0 at the level of the Department of Education .
AMY GOODMAN : And of course we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , except Biden would be—is the president-elect .
Now , can you talk about the wish list for Cabinet members ?
A lot has been talked about .
Apparently , President-elect Biden is about to name his treasury secretary .
Among those who progressives have really been pushing is Senator Elizabeth Warren , but there is concern that because she comes from Massachusetts , which has a Republican governor , that that would not guarantee who would fill that Senate seat .
And of course , the Senate , it has not been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ because of the two Georgia senatorial runoffs .
But the possibility of Elizabeth Warren .
Now the name being floated among others is Janet Yellen .
You have Bernie Sanders wanting to be labor secretary .
The concern that his state , Vermont , the governor is also Republican .
Phil Scott , who says that he would choose an independent , which of course , Bernie Sanders is , that would possibly caucus with the Democratic Party .
But in both these cases , you ’ ve got these Republican governors who @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Cabinet , how important it is and these particular candidates , Astra ?
ASTRA TAYLOR : It is absolutely important that we put forward—I think the first thing that the Biden administration needs to do is put forward bold progressive options like Elizabeth Warren .
Sarah Bloom Raskin is another person that people are interested in .
I think she was at the Treasury under Obama and has said some really interesting things about climate and the power of the Treasury to halt climate change .
So there are these dynamics to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have the Senate is a big concern .
If they don ’ t , then what there needs to be , and organizations are doing this , is creating lists of people who are already in government .
So people who have positions on independent commissions within the government that could be appointed through the Vacancies Act .
At the Department of Education , some of the names being floated are Randi Weingarten of the AFT , the American Federation of Teachers .
Having the head of a teachers union at the Department @ @ @ @ @ @ @ But we don ’ t know what is going to happen .
We ’ re not at the point where we can rest easy .
But I think as people in the movement , we need to signal that we ’ re paying intense attention to this and that we understand just how critical these positions are .
Again , we need to look at things like the OMB , the Office of Management and Budget as well , sort of more boring agencies we don ’ t pay a lot of attention @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are thinking about the power of the purse .
AMY GOODMAN : In the foreword of the new book Can ’ t Pay , Won ’ t Pay : The Case for Economic Disobedience and Debt Abolition , you write , “ If we don ’ t get organized , debtors will keep getting pushed deeper into a financial hole .
In the throes of the pandemic , some payday lenders are charging close to 800 % interest on short-term loans , taking advantage of people who have no other way to keep @ @ @ @ @ @ @ food on the table .
Mass unemployment in the absence of a functioning safety net intensifies mass indebtedness , fueling the already vastly unequal distribution of wealth along predictable racial lines.
” We are moving into the holiday week .
There are people blocks long on food lines across this country .
Charity groups , food groups that are giving out turkeys or any kind of food are running out of food .
Unemployment numbers are going up .
We are talking about millions of people about to lose their unemployment benefits .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ of debt and what you think is possible ?
ASTRA TAYLOR : Indebtedness was an absolute crisis before the COVID pandemic .
I think we have to begin there .
Already , household indebtedness was reaching historic proportions .
The thing is that access to credit has masked stagnating wages and deepening , mind-boggling inequality .
So what people have had to do , because they ’ re not paid enough , is they ’ ve had to borrow to compensate .
So in that sense , people are robbed twice .
You @ @ @ @ @ @ @ being paid poverty wages , then you ’ re forced to borrow and pay interest to make ends meet .
So we have to borrow money to get an education so we can get a job .
The average student borrower now has about $ 32,000 of debt .
It goes up and up every year .
People have to take out payday loans to keep a roof over their head .
We know the research shows that people tend to put necessities on their credit cards .
We are talking basic things @ @ @ @ @ @ @ course are drowning in medical debt because we live in a country that lacks universal healthcare .
Medical debt , as Bernie Sanders often pointed out on the campaign trail , is the number one cause of bankruptcy in this country .
If you live in a country with universal healthcare , medical debt does not exist .
So these are political structural problems .
So we are a country of people in debt .
The vast majority , 75 % of people , are in debt .
Americans died—before the pandemic , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 62,000 of debt .
The pandemic hits , millions of jobs evaporate and this becomes an even more urgent crisis .
We know before the pandemic that people didn ’ t have $ 400 for an emergency .
What happens when your incomes dries up ?
You go deeper and deeper into debt , delinquency , default .
And all of the psychological and physical consequences that come with that .
We all know that debt is incredibly stressful .
It ’ s bad for our health .
So these are structural problems @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is a union of debtors , demands structural solutions .
So just like workers organize in the workplace and want higher wages , benefits , fair terms of employment , we believe debtors also have to organize .
So debtors do not share an office space or a factory floor , but we can come together and organize against our creditors .
That might be a private entity like the bank , or in the case of student loans , the federal government .
The federal government holds the vast majority of student @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , over 95 % .
So we are trying to build debtor power in this moment , and underscoring the fact that in a crisis like this , the one we ’ re living in , what we need is cash to the people , just like those unemployment benefits , the checks for $ 1200 that were not nearly enough .
People need the money , the financial support to survive , but we need to couple that with a program of debt cancellation , of a jubilee .
Otherwise , those @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people ’ s debts .
In fact , we know that the $ 1200 stimulus checks that were sent to people were just basically sent to debt servicing because that ’ s what people were doing .
They were paying their debts instead of spending the money in the economy which would then provide an economic boost .
And it shows that their priority is paying off their debt , that that ’ s what they are afraid of .
So we need to couple relief programs with debt cancellation .
And there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ cancel medical debt , cancel rent .
And the Debt Collective has been leading the fight for the last ten years to cancel student debt .
And that is now seriously on the table and being debated in Washington , and we have pushed the Biden administration to at least commit to the immediate cancellation of $ 10,000 .
We need to push them further , and we need to push them to use executive power to do so .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to talk more deeply about student debt , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Joe Biden , who , alongside most Republicans , favored the 2005 Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act , a bill that essentially made it more difficult to file for bankruptcy .
The credit card industry , much of which is based in Biden ’ s home state of Delaware , also supported the bill and even wrote some of the bill ’ s key amendments .
This is an exchange between Biden , who at the time was a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee , and Elizabeth Warren , who @ @ @ @ @ @ @ professor , now of course a senator .
AMY GOODMAN : So , Astra Taylor , if you can describe where Biden has stood—of course he was a longtime senator from Delaware , home of the credit card companies , very much seen as in bed with them—to where he is today , and what kind of concessions he has made and where you think he needs to be .
ASTRA TAYLOR : Biden ’ s role in the student debt crisis goes way back to 1978 when he supported the Middle Income @ @ @ @ @ @ @ restrictions on federal loans .
So he has been very involved in expanding lending while also repealing bankruptcy protections , as that clip just pointed out .
Indeed , he was the longtime senator from Delaware , the credit card capital of the world .
So this is his track record .
We have no illusions about who we ’ re dealing with .
And I think that is one of the benefits of a Biden administration : nobody thinks he is a Messiah .
We know who he is .
The 2005 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was written by the credit card industries , parts of it , as you pointed out .
It was actually vetoed under Clinton and then Biden fought passionately for it and it was passed under the Bush administration .
So this is not an encouraging track record in many ways .
And as I said earlier , the Debt Collective was in a fight with the Obama administration , the Obama-Biden administration .
We led a student debt strike that was made up of students from predatory for-profit colleges .
These students had @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to .
And the Department of Education had basically supported and bailed out these predatory corporations that pretend to offer education and don ’ t .
They leave students—disproportionately working-class , black and brown , single mothers , veterans—buried in debt , unable to get the employment that they were promised .
And that administration absolutely failed to use the power at its disposal to help these students .
In fact , many former OBiden Department of Ed officials went immediately from that administration to working in the for-profit college sector .
They @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
So we have been calling on the Biden administration , along with so many of our allies in the education space , to break with this tradition .
And there are some signs that under pressure , he is doing so .
After Joe Biden won the Democratic nomination , he moved and finally formally embraced student debt forgiveness .
Of course , we know that Bernie Sanders had a policy of full student debt cancellation .
That is what the Debt Collective supports .
We think every penny should be erased @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the first place .
We should not have to mortgage our futures simply to get an education .
Senator Elizabeth Warren has been very good on this issue .
She pushed quite an ambitious student debt plan and is still pushing today .
So Biden has taken up some elements of that plan .
He still needs to go further .
As I said , because of COVID , he has said that he will immediately cancel $ 10,000 of student debt .
This is included in his racial equity plan .
He @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
The question now though is how is he going to do it , and will he do more .
And we are committed to building a movement to ensure that the Biden administration cancels far more than $ 10,000 of student debt .
Again , we believe he should cancel all of it , and that he uses an authority that the Department of Education already possesses called compromise and settlement .
The Biden administration can erase all student debt on day one .
Legal research from the Debt Collective shows this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have embraced this legal argument .
And indeed the Trump administration already used this authority to cancel interest on student loans a few months ago because of the pandemic .
So we are in a very interesting moment where public pressure could really actually make a massive difference and turn Joe Biden from the person who has basically advanced the student debt crisis into the president who finally helps roll it back .
AMY GOODMAN : Astra , if we can cut across the political spectrum , and as we move into this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ obviously is not a new idea .
In Deuteronomy 15 , at the end of every seven years , you must cancel debts .
Go back to that history of debt jubilee .
ASTRA TAYLOR : Yeah , jubilee has a long tradition .
Here we can lean on the work of the late and great anthropologist David Graeber .
David Graeber was a friend of mine .
He brought me into the Occupy Wall Street movement and recruited me to the cause of debt resistance .
In his beautiful book Debt : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ about how in ancient societies , there were these periodic jubilees , a wiping of the slate .
Essentially , societies would become torn apart by indebtedness .
People started selling themselves and their children into debt slavery .
And there was a recognition that often people would be driven into debt because of circumstances that weren ’ t their fault .
Maybe it was bad crops or maybe there was warfare .
And to keep society from breaking in two , and also to mitigate the power , to reduce the power @ @ @ @ @ @ @ these periodic amnesties .
So there was the laws of Hammurabi , very famous from 1750 BC , that says there need to be debt amnesties .
So this is not some utopian future-looking idea .
This is something that has deep historical roots .
And there have been critical policies of debt cancellation in the modern era .
Scholars and economists who look at this period often point to Germany after World War II where the debts were wiped away so that Germany would have a chance to restart its economy , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ part of the call for jubilee is part of this long tradition .
And it ’ s both a kind of moral argument and it says these debts are destroying people ’ s lives .
They are having disastrous social consequences .
We can ’ t afford as a society have those .
But then there ’ s a kind of practical economic thing , which is that it will actually boost the economy for everybody .
Everybody will be better off if we get rid of these debts , based on the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be paid won ’ t be paid .
So let ’ s face that fact .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to turn right now to Astra Taylor, Astra Taylor of the Debt Collective. The protest comes as the incoming Biden administration is also facing increasing pressure to cancel all federal student loan debt. On Wednesday, a group of 200 groups sent a letter to Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris urging them to, quote, “[use] executive authority to cancel federal student debt on Day One of [their] administration.”
So, yes, we’re turning now to the writer, to the filmmaker, to the organizer, Astra Taylor, who is a member of the Debt Collective, which has just published a book titled Can’t Pay, Won’t Pay: The Case for Economic Disobedience and Debt Abolition. Astra wrote the foreword to the book, as well as a new piece in The Guardian that’s headlined “We’re being told Biden won’t be able to achieve much. We must reject that idea.”
We turn right to that theme, Astra. Let’s begin there. What does it mean to say that we must reject this idea that not much can be achieved during a Biden administration?
ASTRA TAYLOR: First, thanks so much for having me. Wonderful to follow up on those brave words from Representatives Cori Bush and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. The “Biden Be Brave” rally also captures this spirit.
There was a sense, right after the election — the election that is still unending — that because Democrats didn’t take the Senate, that it would be impossible for a Biden administration to govern. What is so great in this moment is how the grassroots are saying, “No, we actually have a deep understanding of how power works and what power you will have, even if the Democrats do not manage to flip those Senate seats in Georgia.” Of course, flipping those seats would be ideal — I mean, keeping those seats and winning those for the Democrats would be ideal. But nevertheless, there are things that Biden can do, if he’s willing to play hardball, if he’s willing to actually understand that that’s what the Republicans do, and the Democrats need to do the same.
So, there’s a movement afoot to pressure the Biden administration to do this, first by saying, “We know that you possess this power.” So, for example, Biden can make appointments using the Vacancies Act, the Federal Vacancies Reform Act. This is a power that Trump used even though he had the Senate on his side. This essentially allows the president to appoint Cabinet-level posts, people who have been confirmed by Congress or senior employees within certain agencies. I would recommend people follow Demand Progress and the Revolving Door Project, which have been doing a lot of great work on this, essentially saying, you know, there is a way to put people in positions of power so that you can advance the progressive agenda that you were elected to advance, because, as AOC made so clear, progressives won this election.
And in a moment of pandemic and economic crisis, we simply cannot afford to have a government that fails to govern in the interest of the people. I mean, it’s also the self-interest of the Democrats, because they will be crushed in 2022 or 2024 if they don’t do this. So I’m very heartened by movements paying attention of these sorts of things, thinking about staffing, thinking about important positions.
I think all of these social movements, whether we’re talking about climate change, whether we’re talking about economic justice, student debt, we recognize the importance of positions like the Treasury or the Office of Management and Budget, and realize it’s all interconnected. And we need people who are committed to meeting the moment, as opposed to the same old politics of austerity. We need those people in place right now. So, you know, the Debt Collective is very concerned, for example, with issues — who staffs the Department of Education, to ensure that we don’t have a repeat of the Obama-Biden administration. We cannot afford to have an Obama 2.0 at the level of the Department of Education.
AMY GOODMAN: And, of course, we’re talking about the Obama-Biden administration, except Biden would be — is the president-elect.
ASTRA TAYLOR: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: Now, can you talk about the wishlist for Cabinet members? A lot has been talked about. Apparently, President-elect Biden is about to name his treasury secretary. Among those who progressives have really been pushing is Senator Elizabeth Warren, but there is concern that because she comes from Massachusetts, which has a Republican governor, that that would not guarantee who would fill that Senate seat.
And, of course, the Senate, it has not been decided who will run the Senate, because of the two Georgia senatorial runoffs. But the possibility of Elizabeth Warren. Now the name being floated, among others, is Janet Yellen. You have Bernie Sanders wanting to be labor secretary. The concern that his state, Vermont, the governor is also Republican, Phil Scott, who says that he would choose an independent, which, of course, Bernie Sanders is, that would possibly caucus with the Democratic Party. But in both these cases, you’ve got these Republican governors who make the final decision. What about the Cabinet, how important it is, and these particular candidates, Astra?
ASTRA TAYLOR: I mean, it’s absolutely important that we put forward — you know, I think the first thing that the Biden administration needs to do is put forward bold progressive options, like Elizabeth Warren. Sarah Bloom Raskin is another person that people are interested in. I think she was at the Treasury under Obama and has said some really interesting things about climate and the power of the Treasury to halt climate change.
So, there are these dynamics to consider. You know, whether or not the Democrats have the Senate is a big concern. If they don’t, then what there needs to be — and organizations are doing this — is creating lists of people who are already in government, so people who have positions on independent commissions within the government that could be appointed through this Vacancies Act.
At the Department of Education, some of the names being floated are Randi Weingarten of the AFT, the American Federation of Teachers. You know, having the head of a teachers’ union at the Department of Education would be significant progress.
But we don’t know what’s going to happen. We’re not at the point where we can rest easy. But I think, as people in the movement, we need to signal that we’re paying intense attention to this and that we understand just how critical these positions are. Again, we need to look at things like the OMB, the Office of Management and Budget, as well, you know, sort of more boring agencies we don’t pay a lot of attention to that actually are influential when we are thinking about the power of the purse.
AMY GOODMAN: In the foreword of the new book, Can’t Pay, Won’t Pay: The Case for Economic Disobedience and Debt Abolition, you write, quote, “If we don’t get organized, debtors will keep getting pushed deeper into a financial hole. In the throes of the pandemic, some payday lenders are charging close to 800 percent interest on short-term loans, taking advantage of people who have no other way to keep a roof over their heads or put food on the table. Mass unemployment in the absence of a functioning safety net intensifies mass indebtedness, fueling the already vastly unequal distribution of wealth along predictable racial lines.”
We’re moving into the holiday week. There are people blocks long on food lines across this country. Charity groups, food groups, that are giving out turkeys or any kind of food, are running out of food. Unemployment numbers are going up. We’re talking about millions of people about to lose their unemployment benefits. Can you talk about the whole issue of debt and what you think is possible?
ASTRA TAYLOR: Indebtedness was an absolute crisis before the COVID pandemic. I think we have to begin there. Already, household indebtedness was reaching historic proportions. The thing is that access to credit has masked stagnating wages and deepening, mind-boggling inequality. So what people have had to do, because they’re not paid enough, is they’ve had to borrow to compensate. So, in that sense, people are robbed twice. You’re robbed at the workplace by being paid poverty wages, then you’re forced to borrow and pay interest to make ends meet. So we have to borrow money to get an education so that we can get a job. The average student borrower now has about $32,000 of debt. It goes up and up every year. People have to take out payday loans to keep a roof over their head. We know the research shows that people tend to put necessities on their credit cards. We’re talking basic things like food, sustenance.
People, of course, are drowning in medical debt, because we live in a country that lacks universal healthcare. Medical debt, as Bernie Sanders often pointed out on the campaign trail, is the number one cause of bankruptcy in this country. If you live in a country with universal healthcare, medical debt does not exist. So these are political structural problems.
So we are a country of people in debt. The vast majority, 75% of people, are in debt. Americans die — before the pandemic, Americans were dying on average with $62,000 of debt. The pandemic hits, millions of jobs evaporate, and this becomes an even more urgent crisis. We know before the pandemic that people didn’t have $400 for an emergency. What happens when your income dries up? You go deeper and deeper into debt, delinquency, default, and all of the psychological and physical consequences that come with that. We all know that debt is incredibly stressful. It’s bad for our health.
So, these are structural problems, and the Debt Collective, which is a union of debtors, demands structural solutions. So, just like workers organize in the workplace and want higher wages, benefits, fairer terms of employment, we believe debtors also have to organize. So, debtors do not share an office space or a factory floor, but we can come together and organize against our creditors. That might be a private entity like a bank or, in the case of student loans, the federal government. The federal government holds the vast majority of student debt, an overwhelming amount of it, over 95%.
So we are trying to build debtor power in this moment and underscoring the fact that in a crisis like this, the one we’re living in, what we need is cash to the people, just like those unemployment benefits, the checks for $1,200 that were not nearly enough. People need the money, the financial support, to survive, but we need to couple that with a program of debt cancellation, of a jubilee. Otherwise, those cash payments are just going to pay people’s debts.
In fact, we know that the $1,200 stimulus checks that were sent to people were just basically sent to debt servicing, because that’s what people were doing. They were paying their debts instead of spending the money in the economy, which would then provide an economic boost. And it shows that their priority is paying off their debt, that that’s what they’re afraid of.
So we need to couple relief programs with debt cancellation. And there are calls emanating from all over to cancel medical debt, cancel rent. And the Debt Collective has been leading the fight for the last 10 years to cancel student debt. And that is now seriously on the table and being debated in Washington, and we have pushed the Biden administration to at least commit to the immediate cancellation of $10,000. We need to push them further, and we need to push them to use executive power to do so.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to talk more deeply about student debt. But first, in 2005, then — Joe Biden, who, alongside most Republicans, favored the 2005 Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act, a bill that essentially made it more difficult to file for bankruptcy — the credit card industry, much of which is based in Biden’s home state of Delaware, also supported the bill and even wrote some of the bill’s key amendments. This is an exchange between Biden, who at the time was a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and Elizabeth Warren, who at the time was a Harvard law professor, now of course a senator.
ELIZABETH WARREN: They have squeezed enough out of these families in interest and fees and payments that never pay down the principal.
SEN. JOE BIDEN: Maybe we should talk about usury rates then. Maybe that’s what we should be talking about, not bankruptcy.
ELIZABETH WARREN: Senator, I’ll be the first. Invite me.
SEN. JOE BIDEN: No, I know you will. But let’s call a spade a spade! Your problem with the credit card companies is usury rates, from your position. It’s not about the bankruptcy bill.
ELIZABETH WARREN: But, Senator, if you’re not going to fix that problem, you can’t take away the last shred of protection for these families.
SEN. JOE BIDEN: I got it. OK. Well, you’re a very good, Professor.
AMY GOODMAN: So, Astra Taylor, if you can describe where Biden has stood — of course, he was a longtime senator from Delaware, home of the credit card companies, very much seen as in bed with them — to where he is today, and what kind of concessions he has made, and where you think he needs to be?
ASTRA TAYLOR: Biden’s role in the student debt crisis goes way back, I mean, to 1978, when he supported the Middle Income Student Assistance Act, which essentially eliminated restrictions on federal loans. So he has been very involved in expanding lending while also repealing bankruptcy protections, as that clip just pointed out. Indeed, he was the longtime senator from Delaware, the credit card capital of the world. So this is his track record. We have no illusions about who we’re dealing with. I mean, and I think that is one of the benefits of a Biden administration: Nobody thinks he’s a messiah. We know who he is. The 2005 bankruptcy bill was a travesty. It was written by the credit card industries, parts of it, as you pointed out. It was actually vetoed under Clinton, and then Biden fought passionately for it, and it was passed under the Bush administration. So, this is not an encouraging track record, in many ways.
And as I said earlier, the Debt Collective was in a fight with the Obama administration, the Obama-Biden administration. We led a student debt strike that was made up of students from predatory for-profit colleges. These students had been defrauded. They had been lied to. And the Department of Education had basically supported and bailed out these predatory corporations that pretend to offer education and don’t. They leave students — disproportionately working-class, Black and Brown, single mothers, veterans — buried in debt, unable to get the employment that they were promised. And that administration absolutely failed to use the power at its disposal to help these students. In fact, many former O-Biden Department of Ed officials went immediately from that administration to working in the for-profit college sector. They just waltzed right through that revolving door.
So, we have been calling on the Biden administration, along with so many of our allies in the education space, to break with this tradition. And there are some signs that, under pressure, he is doing so. I mean, after Joe Biden won the Democratic nomination, he moved and finally formally embraced student debt forgiveness. And, of course, we know that Bernie Sanders had a policy of full student debt cancellation. That is what the Debt Collective supports. We think every penny should be erased, because those loans should not exist in the first place. We should not have to mortgage our futures simply to get an education. Senator Elizabeth Warren has been very good on this issue. She pushed quite an ambitious student debt plan and is still pushing today. So Biden has taken up some elements of that plan. He still needs to go further.
As I said, because of COVID, he has said that he will immediately cancel $10,000 of student debt. This is included in his racial equity plan. He has a long Medium post about this. The question now, though, is: How is he going to do it? And will he do more? And we are committed to building a movement to ensure that the Biden administration cancels far more than $10,000 of student debt — again, we believe he should cancel all of it — and that he uses an authority that the Department of Education already possesses called compromise and settlement.
The Biden administration can erase all student debt on day one. Legal research from the Debt Collective shows this is possible. Senators Warren and Schumer have embraced this legal argument. And indeed, the Trump administration already used this authority to cancel interest on student loans a few months ago because of the pandemic. So, we’re in a very interesting moment where public pressure could really actually make a massive difference and turn Joe Biden from the person who has basically advanced the student debt crisis into the president who finally helps roll it back.
AMY GOODMAN: Astra, if we can cut across the political spectrum and, as we move into this holiday season, get biblical, canceling debt obviously is not a new idea. In Deuteronomy 15, at the end of every seven years, you must cancel debts. Go back to that history of debt jubilee.
ASTRA TAYLOR: Yeah, jubilee has a long tradition. It’s something — you know, and here we can lean on the work of the late and great anthropologist David Graeber. David Graeber was a friend of mine. He brought me into the Occupy Wall Street movement and recruited me to the cause of debt resistance. In his beautiful book, Debt: The First 5,000 years, he talks about how in ancient societies there were these periodic jubilees, a wiping of the slate.
So, essentially, societies would become torn apart by indebtedness. People started selling themselves and their children into debt slavery. And there was a recognition that often people would be driven into debt because of circumstances that weren’t their fault. Maybe it was bad crops or there was warfare. And to keep society from breaking in two, and also to mitigate the power, to reduce the power of the lenders, there would be these periodic amnesties. So, you know, there was the laws of Hammurabi, very famous, from 1750 BC, that says there need to be debt amnesties. So, this is not some utopian, future-looking idea. This is something that has deep historical roots.
And there have been critical policies of debt cancellation in the modern era. I mean, scholars and economists who look at this period often point to Germany after World War II, where the debts were wiped away so that Germany would have a chance to restart its economy, and became this economic miracle.
So, part of the call for jubilee is part of this long tradition. And it’s both a kind of moral argument, and it says these debts are destroying people’s lives. They’re having disastrous social consequences. We can’t afford as a society to have those. But then there’s a kind of practical economic thing, which is that it will actually boost the economy for everybody. Everybody will be better off if we get rid of these debts, based on the logic that debts that can’t be paid won’t be paid. So let’s face that fact.


democracynow--2020-11-20--Biden Be Bold: AOC & Cori Bush Join Climate Protest Outside DNC Urging Activists to "Bring the Heat"

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, Democracynow.org , the Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
When we come back , we go to Washington , D.C. , where there was a sit-in staged outside the Democratic National Committee headquarters .
Stay with us .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, the Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
In Washington , D.C. , indigenous , racial justice and climate activists staged an occupation outside @ @ @ @ @ @ @ calling on President-elect Joe Biden to take immediate climate action and approve the Green New Deal .
Advocates are also calling for a corporate-free Cabinet .
Protesters included Ta ’ Sina Sapa Win of the Cheyenne River Grassroots Collective .
AMY GOODMAN : A number of lawmakers spoke at the protest outside the DNC , including Congresswoman-elect Cori Bush from Missouri .
Bush is a formerly homeless nurse and single mother who helped lead the protests following the police killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson , Missouri in 2014 .
She recently became @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Congress from Missouri .
CONGRESSMEMBER-ELECT CORI BUSH : First of all , I think that we need to make sure that something is very clear .
When we don ’ t act , people who look like me die .
So let me say that again .
When people don ’ t act , people who look like me die .
And so there is just no other alternative right now than to make sure that we have bold leadership .
And some people say , “ Oh , well you can ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ can ’ t—you have to play this game.
” Well , I ’ m done with the games .
We can ’ t play any more games , because when we play the games , people die .
What we ’ re looking at right now , when we crossed the mark for 250,000 people dying at the hands of Trump ’ s COVID-19 ?
And I am calling it Trump ’ s COVID-19 because this could have been done differently .
So we ’ re looking right now to President-elect Joe Biden @ @ @ @ @ @ @ things that are different .
But it ’ s not good enough to just do different .
We got ta do bold .
We got ta do change that happens now .
We got ta make sure that black folks , brown folks , every marginalized group , our indigenous folks , feel our change .
And so that ’ s why we ’ re here .
We need change that everybody can feel .
And so , yes , we ’ re going to get in good trouble doing it .
Yes @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sure that we say the names of those that have passed because of failed leadership .
And so that ’ s what we ’ re asking for right now .
When I think about the day when I didn ’ t care about the climate .
And see , one thing you all know about me is I tell my own ish ; I don ’ t need somebody to tell it for me .
There was a day when I didn ’ t care about the climate .
I thought the climate @ @ @ @ @ @ @ caring about the environment was about recycling and endangered animals .
Well , I tell you what , I found out after fighting about why is my energy bill so high .
Fighting about , why do I keep having to go to the hospital for asthma .
Why does my child have to keep going to the hospital for asthma ?
And then I realized that it ’ s these coal companies and it ’ s these companies that are the ones that are pushing this into our communities , into communities @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , that are the most impacted who look like me .
When I think about my district , where black children are ten times as likely to go to the ER for asthma than white children , we got ta do somethin ’ about it .
AMY GOODMAN : That ’ s Congresswoman-elect Cori Bush of Missouri .
She was wearing a black mask with the white bold words “ good trouble ” printed on it , speaking Thursday at the “ Biden , be brave ” occupation outside the Democratic National Committee @ @ @ @ @ @ @ York also spoke .
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ : Climate is now a top-three issue for voters across the country and it is about time that our Congress and our administration starts acting like it .
It ’ s way past time .
But what I think is so important is that every single person up here represents the power of the movement .
It represents the power of indigenous communities organizing , the power of young people organizing , the power of the Movement for Black Lives organizing , showing that climate is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and demands .
It is tied to the treaty rights and liberties of indigenous peoples in the United States of America .
We can ’ t talk about climate unless we ’ re talking about the rights of young people to have a habitable planet , unless we ’ re talking about the rights of working-class people to have a job that guarantees them dignity .
And it is only bold federal action that can guarantee these things .
It is only that kind of transformational investment .
Now we have worked and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is why I was elected to Congress .
The movement is why Jamaal and Cori and Mondaire are here today .
You all , the movement , is why Ilhan is here .
The movement is why Rashida is here .
The movement is why Ed Markey was protected this year .
It was the movement .
Because as we have been saying since day one , they ’ ve got money , but we ’ ve got people .
We ’ ve got people .
And at the end of the day @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Although , they try to .
We vote .
People vote .
Young people vote .
And it ’ s about time , long past time , that we recognize and understand that we owe our seats , we owe our political power , because of young people , because of the Movement for Black Lives , because of women , because of the working class across this country .
And it ’ s is a class issue , it ’ s a race issue , it ’ s a gender issue @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is so important .
Because you all have done the work , you all got us a seat at the table .
We have worked with the Biden administration to secure commitment on a $ 2 trillion climate plan .
Two trillion dollars .
But we ’ re not gon na stop there .
We ’ re not gon na stop with a piece of paper .
That ’ s not what ’ s gon na happen .
We ’ re not gon na forget about that agreement for the sake of an @ @ @ @ @ @ @ What we ’ re gon na do is that we ’ re gon na organize and demand that this administration , which I believe is decent and kind and honorable , keep their promise .
So that ’ s what our next move is , is to make sure that the Biden administration keeps its promise .
We know that we don ’ t just make that demand and walk away .
We have to organize for it .
We have to bring the heat for it .
Because there ’ s a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ just shove a bunch of money before this election to try to buy their seat at the table .
But we organized for ours , and we ’ re not easily going to let that go .
So our demand here is to make sure that we keep this promise , that we follow through on a visionary , absolutely unprecedented $ 2 trillion plan that ’ s not just about money , but also it ’ s one of the first presidential plans to honor the treaty rights of native people , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sure that we have environmental justice front and center , so that we make sure that we make up for redlining , that we make up for Flint , that we make up for Baltimore , that we make up for lead in the pipes across this country .
So that ’ s what this movement is all about .
AMY GOODMAN : New York Congressmember Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez speaking at the “ Biden , be brave ” occupation outside the Democratic National Committee headquarters in Washington , D.C. , on Thursday .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
In Washington, D.C., Indigenous, racial justice and climate activists staged an occupation outside the Democratic National Committee headquarters Thursday, calling on President-elect Joe Biden to take immediate climate action and approve the Green New Deal. Advocates are also calling for a corporate-free Cabinet. Protesters included Ta’Sina Sapa Win of the Cheyenne River Grassroots Collective.
TA’SINA SAPA WIN: I’m going to ask Biden: Please, put an end to this fossil fuel addiction. Put an end to this ongoing genocide. Put an end to the ongoing injustices against our people. Because we will stand. And we do know that there are people willing to put their bodies on the line to make sure that our future generations will have a clean, beautiful and just thriving community.
AMY GOODMAN: A number of lawmakers spoke at the protest outside the DNC, including Congresswoman-elect Cori Bush from Missouri. Bush is a formerly homeless nurse and single mother who helped lead the protests following the police killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, in 2014. She recently became the first African American woman elected to Congress from Missouri.
REP.-ELECT CORI BUSH: First of all, I think that we need to make sure that something is very clear. When we don’t act, people who look like me die. So, let me say that again. When people don’t act, people who look like me die. And so, there is just no other alternative right now than to make sure that we have bold leadership. And some people say, “Oh, well, you can’t win,” or “You can’t — you have to play this game.” Well, I’m done with the games. We can’t play any more games, because when we play the games, people die.
What we’re looking at right now, well, we crossed the mark for 250,000 people dying at the hands of Trump’s COVID-19. And I’m calling it Trump’s COVID-19, because this could have been done differently. So, we’re looking right now to President-elect Joe Biden to make some changes and do some things that are different. But it’s not good enough to just do different. We’ve got to do bold. We’ve got to do change that happens now. We’ve got to make sure that Black folks, Brown folks, every marginalized group, our Indigenous folks, feel our change. And so that’s why we’re here. We need change that everybody can feel. And so, yes, we’re going to get in good trouble doing it. Yes, we’re going to make sure that we say the names of those that have passed because of failed leadership. And so that’s what we’re asking for right now.
When I think about the day when I didn’t care about the climate — and see, one thing you all know about me is I tell my own ish; I don’t need somebody to tell it for me. There was a day when I didn’t care about the climate. I thought the climate crisis and climate issues was all about — or caring about the environment was about recycling and endangered animals. Well, I tell you what, I found out after fighting about “Why is my energy bill so high?” fighting about “Why do I keep having to go to the hospital for asthma? Why does my child have to keep going to the hospital for asthma?” And then I realized that it’s these coal companies, and it’s these companies that are the ones that are pushing this into our communities, into communities that have nothing to do with it, that are the most impacted, who look like me. When I think about my district, where Black children are 10 times as likely to go to the ER for asthma than white children, we’ve got to do something about it.
So we’re calling on the Biden administration right now to save lives. Save lives. There’s no other alternative. We need bold leadership, and we’re asking you, because we voted for you. Black and Brown communities showed up. Ilhan Omar and our sister right here, Rashida Tlaib, showed up and made sure that people were out showing up to vote. So we’re asking you to show up for us. And we need it now.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Congresswoman-elect Cori Bush of Missouri. She was wearing a black mask with the white bold words “good trouble” printed on it, speaking Thursday at the “Biden Be Brave” occupation outside the Democratic National Committee headquarters. Congressmember Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York also spoke.
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Climate is now a top-three issue for voters across the country, and it’s about time that our Congress and our administration starts acting like it. It’s way past time. But what I think is so important is that every single person up here represents the power of the movement. It represents the power of Indigenous communities organizing, the power of young people organizing, the power of the Movement for Black Lives organizing, showing that climate is intersectional with every one of our needs and demands. It is tied to the treaty rights and liberties of Indigenous peoples in the United States of America. …
We can’t talk about climate unless we’re talking about the rights of young people to have a habitable planet, unless we’re talking about the rights of working-class people to have a job that guarantees them dignity. And it’s only bold federal action that can guarantee these things. It is only that kind of transformational investment.
Now, we have worked, and the movement has pushed. The movement is why I was elected to Congress. The movement is why Jamaal and Cori and Mondaire are here today. You all, the movement, is why Ilhan is here. The movement is why Rashida is here. The movement is why Ed Markey was protected this year. It was the movement, because as we’ve been saying since day one, they’ve got money, but we’ve got people. We’ve got people. And at the end of the day, dollar bills don’t vote, although they try to. We vote. People vote. Young people vote. And it’s about time, long past time, that we recognize and understand that we owe our seats, we owe our political power, because of young people, because of the Movement for Black Lives, because of women, because of the working class across this country. And it’s is a class issue, it’s a race issue, it’s a gender issue. That’s why this work is so important. …
Because you all have done the work, you all got us a seat at the table. We have worked with the Biden administration to secure commitment on a $2 trillion climate plan. Two trillion dollars. But we’re not going to stop there. We’re not going to stop with a piece of paper. That’s not what’s going to happen. We’re not going to forget about that agreement for the sake of an election, are we? No. What we’re going to do is that we’re going to organize and demand that this administration, which I believe is decent and kind and honorable, keep their promise. So, that’s what our next move is, is to make sure that the Biden administration keeps its promise. …
We know that we don’t just make that demand and walk away. We have to organize for it. We have to bring the heat for it, because there’s a whole lot of people that tried to just shove a bunch of money before this election to try to buy their seat at the table. But we organized for ours, and we’re not easily going to let that go.
So our demand here is to make sure that we keep this promise, that we follow through on a visionary, absolutely unprecedented $2 trillion plan, that’s not just about money, but also it’s one of the first presidential plans to honor the treaty rights of Native people, one of the first rights to make sure that we have environmental justice front and center, so that we make sure that we make up for redlining, that we make up for Flint, that we make up for Baltimore, that we make up for lead in the pipes across this country. So that’s what this movement is all about.
I want to thank you. And I don’t want anybody here to think that we’re not winning, because, let me tell you something: We’re winning. It’s working. It’s happening. And we are going to secure a future. We’re going to secure the basic tenets of a Green New Deal, a multitrillion-dollar jobs program for climate, for environmental, racial, gender and class justice. That’s what the Green New Deal is, and we will stick to that plan. So, thank you all so very much.
AMY GOODMAN: New York Congressmember Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, speaking at the “Biden Be Brave” occupation outside the Democratic National Committee headquarters in Washington, D.C., on Thursday.


democracynow--2020-11-20--Headlines for November 20, 2020

Headlines for November 20, 2020

Mexico has become the fourth nation to pass 100,000 COVID-19 deaths , following Brazil , India and the United States @ @ @ @ @ of thousands of people who fled Hurricanes Iota and Eta have packed overcrowded storm shelters @ @ @ @ @ spike of new infections .
Across Europe , hospitals report a shortage of both ICU @ @ @ @ @ nurses to staff them , amid signs that a second wave of COVID-19 is finally @ @ @ @ @ measures that were reintroduced beginning in October .
In South Australia , officials have lifted @ @ @ @ @ days early , after they determined a man who became infected lied to contact tracers @ @ @ @ @ a highly contagious strain of the virus .
Australia has nearly eradicated COVID-19 , with @ @ @ @ @ reported in recent weeks .
Meanwhile the World Health Organization is advising doctors not to @ @ @ @ @ to COVID-19 patients , after concluding it has no meaningful effect on mortality or recovery @ @

Mexico has become the fourth nation to pass 100,000 COVID-19 deaths, following Brazil, India and the United States.
In Honduras, tens of thousands of people who fled Hurricanes Iota and Eta have packed overcrowded storm shelters, raising fears of a spike of new infections.
Across Europe, hospitals report a shortage of both ICU beds and healthy doctors and nurses to staff them, amid signs that a second wave of COVID-19 is finally slowing due to public health measures that were reintroduced beginning in October.
In South Australia, officials have lifted a strict coronavirus lockdown three days early, after they determined a man who became infected lied to contact tracers, raising unfounded fears of a highly contagious strain of the virus. Australia has nearly eradicated COVID-19, with only a handful of cases reported in recent weeks.
Meanwhile, the World Health Organization is advising doctors not to administer the antiviral drug remdesivir to COVID-19 patients, after concluding it has no meaningful effect on mortality or recovery times.


democracynow--2020-11-23--A People's Vaccine? Drugmakers Set to Profit from COVID Vaccines Made with Publicly Funded Research

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
As the coronavirus pandemic intensifies , a third major drug company has injected good news into the race for a potential vaccine .
That ’ s AstraZeneca .
It says late-stage trials show its COVID-19 vaccine developed by Oxford University is [ 70 % ] effective .
Last week , drug giants Pfizer and Moderna reported their vaccines are almost 95 % effective .
The new vaccine @ @ @ @ @ @ @ distribute than the others because it does not have to be stored at ultra-freezing temperatures .
It could also be cheaper because AstraZeneca has pledged not to make a profit on it during the pandemic , and agreed to price doses at about $ 2.50 each .
The Associated Press reports Pfizer ’ s vaccine costs about $ 20 a dose , while Moderna ’ s is $ 15 to $ 25 , based on the companies ’ agreements to supply their vaccines to the U.S. government .
As many as 14 billion @ @ @ @ @ @ @ everyone worldwide .
Corporate watchdog Public Citizen says the vaccines belong to the people , as Pfizer and Moderna ’ s vaccines relied heavily on discoveries from research funded by taxpayers , who actually paid twice , when the Trump administration also gave Moderna an additional $ 1.5 billion to secure doses in advance .
For more , we ’ re joined by Public Citizen ’ s president , Rob Weissman .
Rob , welcome back to Democracy Now !
Explain what it means to say that these vaccines should belong to the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a private corporation .
ROBERT WEISSMAN : Well , it turns out that the investment in these vaccines , as for most drugs , has really been underwritten by the taxpayer , by the government .
In the case of Pfizer , they did not take direct money from the government to finish their vaccine , but they ’ re relying heavily on a publicly funded invention as the core of what they ’ re trying to do .
In the case of the Moderna vaccine , which really should be viewed as @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the government actually owns a portion of the vaccine , we believe .
It funded 100 % of the development at Moderna .
And as you said , they ’ ve also now — the government has pledged a billion-and-a-half dollars to purchase the vaccine , that we co-invented and 100 % paid for .
So , these are vaccines that the government has an investment interest in , an ownership interest in , in the case of Moderna , and therefore , when we think about how it ’ s going to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ importantly , produced and supplied in the U.S. , but around the world , the government has just got to say , “ We ’ re going to exercise our powers.
” I will say , though , even if the government hadn ’ t paid for the vaccine , even if the inventions weren ’ t product of public investment over many years , in light of the pandemic , we should still say we can not tolerate patent monopolies conferring on corporations the power to control who can make the vaccine @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be supplied .
What we should do in the United States and around the world is say , “ This is technology that the world needs , and we ’ re going to share it as widely as we possibly can , to make sure we can produce as much vaccine as we need as quickly as possible , to get not just the United States , but the entire world , out of the pandemic quickly.
” AMY GOODMAN : So , now , this is really critical about how — you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ between vaccines and vaccinations , moving into this issue of who gets vaccinated .
You have the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines .
Both are double shots .
AMY GOODMAN : And the Pfizer vaccine has to be kept at 100 degrees Fahrenheit below zero .
Moderna doesn ’ t have to be kept quite as cold , but the Pfizer vaccine would require whole new refrigeration .
Even states in the United States say they don ’ t have the ability to keep it that cold , let alone countries in the developing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that ’ s right .
There are going to be some technical problems with getting it distributed .
But I have to say , if the world cares , man , you solve the technical problems .
The real hard limit we face now is there ’ s not going to be enough supply , because these companies can not make enough fast enough .
And if they try to license it to other partners , as they are doing , it ’ s still going to be too slow .
They ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ debating the details of it , and the licensees are not going to be able to make enough of it .
So , what does that mean ?
Well , it means that people in the developing world are going to wait longer , maybe three , four , even five years , to get the vaccine , that hopefully will be fully distributed in the United States within the course of the next nine months or so .
We already have 170 million people in the developing world who have fallen into @ @ @ @ @ @ @ day , since the pandemic started .
So you ’ re going to see these poorer countries crushed by an ongoing pandemic , when it ’ s been solved in the rich countries .
And , of course , you ’ re going to have hundreds of thousands of lives lost that could be saved if the vaccine was distributed immediately .
So , what ’ s the solution ?
Well , we actually need more supply .
And we could get more supply if the U.S. government said , “ We ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Every manufacturer that has capacity , the ability to make a quality product , we ’ re going to show you how to do this , and encourage you to do it as much as you can , as fast as we can .
And we , the U.S. government , we ’ re going to help build some more facilities to make more , because the world can ’ t wait.
” AMY GOODMAN : So , talk about what this would mean for all of these vaccines .
Again , you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ then the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine would cost more .
Johnson & Johnson is going to be talking about theirs coming out .
And also , what does it mean not charging during the pandemic , but then charging ?
What could be set up , where you have a situation in the world where it is guaranteed everyone who wants a vaccine gets a vaccine ?
ROBERT WEISSMAN : Well , what we should say — the United States is the leading power on this , both as the most powerful country @ @ @ @ @ @ @ home to two of these companies that have developed these early vaccines .
We should say we ’ re going to share the technology .
We ’ re going to share the intellectual property rights , the patents and other intellectual property rights , and the know-how .
We ’ re going to actually show people , show companies how to make this vaccine , and do it through the World Health Organization , which has a facility set up to do this , do it directly with companies .
We ’ re @ @ @ @ @ @ @ quickly can .
Pay something to Pfizer and Moderna that we determine to be fair based on their contributions to the research and the cost , but don ’ t let them exert monopoly control .
And if we do that , we could scale up globally really quickly and get everybody the vaccine as quickly as possible .
AMY GOODMAN : Rob , can you talk about the Serum Institute in India that can mass-produce vaccines ?
Will they be able to get access to the know-how to manufacture these vaccines ?
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ are right now is the authority is vested in the companies , so it ’ s going to depend on what kind of deals the companies cut .
The companies actually are licensing around the world , but it ’ s too slow a process .
And there ’ s no transparency , so we ’ re not really likely to know what the terms are of those license deals , how much information and know-how they ’ re transferring over , whether they ’ re permitting a company like the large Indian @ @ @ @ @ @ @ around the world .
Do they limit the countries they can get into ?
And then , as you ’ re alluding to , what these companies are saying , “ Well , we ’ ll do it at what we call a nonprofit price — not really nonprofit , but what we call a nonprofit price — for a while , like during the pandemic .
But if there ’ s an ongoing need for this vaccine — and we don ’ t know , this may require ongoing shots — well @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that nonprofit price over the long term.
” So , they ’ re worried about not just year one .
They ’ re worried about what ’ s happening in year four and five .
And they ’ re trying to control the technology so they can make profits for many years to come .
We just can ’ t tolerate that .
Pay them what we think is fair .
Share the technology .
Get everybody vaccinated .
Because the alternative is what we ’ re about to venture into , which @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people in rich countries get access to this vaccine , the countries collectively are able to get out of the pandemic , but people in poorer countries are going to be living with it for years and years , with huge consequences both for their health and the well-being of their economies .
And it ’ s just an absolutely intolerable situation .
AMY GOODMAN : Rob , speaking about rich and poor , since President Trump signed the CARES Act nearly eight months ago , benefits have expired as the pandemic intensifies @ @ @ @ @ @ @ House have refused to advance multiple relief measures passed by the Democrat-controlled House .
On Friday , Congressmember Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez took to the House floor to call out Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell for sending the Senate home for Thanksgiving without finalizing a coronavirus relief bill .
AMY GOODMAN : AOC is wearing all black .
Public Citizen recently tweeted in all capital letters , ” WHY IS THE SENATE ON VACATION WHILE AMERICANS ARE DYING WITH NO RELIEF ?
” We have 10 seconds , Rob Weissman .
ROBERT WEISSMAN : It @ @ @ @ @ @ @ got rising hunger , rising homelessness , tens of millions of people out of work .
The Senate has refused to act on the bill that passed the House in May , and people are going to suffer as a result .
Hopefully we can get a deal done quickly , but this is all resting at the feet of Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump .
AMY GOODMAN : We have to leave it there , Rob Weissman , president of Public Citizen .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Thanks so much @ @ @ @

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
As the coronavirus pandemic intensifies, a third major drug company has injected good news into the race for a potential vaccine. That’s AstraZeneca. It says late-stage trials show its COVID-19 vaccine developed by Oxford University is [70%] effective. Last week, drug giants Pfizer and Moderna reported their vaccines are almost 95% effective. The new vaccine manufactured by Oxford-AstraZeneca could be easier to distribute than the others because it does not have to be stored at ultra-freezing temperatures. It could also be cheaper because AstraZeneca has pledged not to make a profit on it during the pandemic, and agreed to price doses at about $2.50 each. The Associated Press reports Pfizer’s vaccine costs about $20 a dose, while Moderna’s is $15 to $25, based on the companies’ agreements to supply their vaccines to the U.S. government. As many as 14 billion vaccine doses would be required to immunize everyone worldwide.
Corporate watchdog Public Citizen says the vaccines belong to the people, as Pfizer and Moderna’s vaccines relied heavily on discoveries from research funded by taxpayers, who actually paid twice, when the Trump administration also gave Moderna an additional $1.5 billion to secure doses in advance.
For more, we’re joined by Public Citizen’s president, Rob Weissman.
Rob, welcome back to Democracy Now! Explain what it means to say that these vaccines should belong to the world, not be the property of a private corporation.
ROBERT WEISSMAN: Well, it turns out that the investment in these vaccines, as for most drugs, has really been underwritten by the taxpayer, by the government. In the case of Pfizer, they did not take direct money from the government to finish their vaccine, but they’re relying heavily on a publicly funded invention as the core of what they’re trying to do. In the case of the Moderna vaccine, which really should be viewed as the National Institutes of Health-Moderna vaccine, the government actually owns a portion of the vaccine, we believe. It funded 100% of the development at Moderna. And as you said, they’ve also now — the government has pledged a billion-and-a-half dollars to purchase the vaccine, that we co-invented and 100% paid for. So, these are vaccines that the government has an investment interest in, an ownership interest in, in the case of Moderna, and therefore, when we think about how it’s going to be procured and distributed and, most importantly, produced and supplied in the U.S., but around the world, the government has just got to say, “We’re going to exercise our powers.”
I will say, though, even if the government hadn’t paid for the vaccine, even if the inventions weren’t product of public investment over many years, in light of the pandemic, we should still say we cannot tolerate patent monopolies conferring on corporations the power to control who can make the vaccine and how it’s going to be supplied. What we should do in the United States and around the world is say, “This is technology that the world needs, and we’re going to share it as widely as we possibly can, to make sure we can produce as much vaccine as we need as quickly as possible, to get not just the United States, but the entire world, out of the pandemic quickly.”
AMY GOODMAN: So, now, this is really critical about how — you know, there’s a difference between vaccines and vaccinations, moving into this issue of who gets vaccinated. You have the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. Both are double shots.
ROBERT WEISSMAN: Right.
AMY GOODMAN: And the Pfizer vaccine has to be kept at 100 degrees Fahrenheit below zero. Moderna doesn’t have to be kept quite as cold, but the Pfizer vaccine would require whole new refrigeration. Even states in the United States say they don’t have the ability to keep it that cold, let alone countries in the developing world.
ROBERT WEISSMAN: Yeah, that’s right. There are going to be some technical problems with getting it distributed. But I have to say, if the world cares, man, you solve the technical problems. The real hard limit we face now is there’s not going to be enough supply, because these companies cannot make enough fast enough. And if they try to license it to other partners, as they are doing, it’s still going to be too slow. They’re going to spend too much time debating the details of it, and the licensees are not going to be able to make enough of it.
So, what does that mean? Well, it means that people in the developing world are going to wait longer, maybe three, four, even five years, to get the vaccine, that hopefully will be fully distributed in the United States within the course of the next nine months or so. We already have 170 million people in the developing world who have fallen into deep poverty, under $3.50 a day, since the pandemic started. So you’re going to see these poorer countries crushed by an ongoing pandemic, when it’s been solved in the rich countries. And, of course, you’re going to have hundreds of thousands of lives lost that could be saved if the vaccine was distributed immediately.
So, what’s the solution? Well, we actually need more supply. And we could get more supply if the U.S. government said, “We’re going to share this technology. Every manufacturer that has capacity, the ability to make a quality product, we’re going to show you how to do this, and encourage you to do it as much as you can, as fast as we can. And we, the U.S. government, we’re going to help build some more facilities to make more, because the world can’t wait.”
AMY GOODMAN: So, talk about what this would mean for all of these vaccines. Again, you have AstraZeneca. You have — and then the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine would cost more. Johnson & Johnson is going to be talking about theirs coming out. And also, what does it mean not charging during the pandemic, but then charging? What could be set up, where you have a situation in the world where it is guaranteed everyone who wants a vaccine gets a vaccine?
ROBERT WEISSMAN: Well, what we should say — the United States is the leading power on this, both as the most powerful country in the world and also as the home to two of these companies that have developed these early vaccines. We should say we’re going to share the technology. We’re going to share the intellectual property rights, the patents and other intellectual property rights, and the know-how. We’re going to actually show people, show companies how to make this vaccine, and do it through the World Health Organization, which has a facility set up to do this, do it directly with companies. We’re going to produce as much as we quickly can. Pay something to Pfizer and Moderna that we determine to be fair based on their contributions to the research and the cost, but don’t let them exert monopoly control. And if we do that, we could scale up globally really quickly and get everybody the vaccine as quickly as possible.
AMY GOODMAN: Rob, can you talk about the Serum Institute in India that can mass-produce vaccines? Will they be able to get access to the know-how to manufacture these vaccines?
ROBERT WEISSMAN: Well, where we are right now is the authority is vested in the companies, so it’s going to depend on what kind of deals the companies cut. The companies actually are licensing around the world, but it’s too slow a process. And there’s no transparency, so we’re not really likely to know what the terms are of those license deals, how much information and know-how they’re transferring over, whether they’re permitting a company like the large Indian manufacturers to sell outside of India, around the world. Do they limit the countries they can get into?
And then, as you’re alluding to, what these companies are saying, “Well, we’ll do it at what we call a nonprofit price — not really nonprofit, but what we call a nonprofit price — for a while, like during the pandemic. But if there’s an ongoing need for this vaccine — and we don’t know, this may require ongoing shots — well, we’re not committing to that nonprofit price over the long term.” So, they’re worried about not just year one. They’re worried about what’s happening in year four and five. And they’re trying to control the technology so they can make profits for many years to come.
We just can’t tolerate that. Pay them what we think is fair. Share the technology. Get everybody vaccinated. Because the alternative is what we’re about to venture into, which is a global vaccine apartheid, where people in rich countries get access to this vaccine, the countries collectively are able to get out of the pandemic, but people in poorer countries are going to be living with it for years and years, with huge consequences both for their health and the well-being of their economies. And it’s just an absolutely intolerable situation.
AMY GOODMAN: Rob, speaking about rich and poor, since President Trump signed the CARES Act nearly eight months ago, benefits have expired as the pandemic intensifies, but Senate Republicans and the White House have refused to advance multiple relief measures passed by the Democrat-controlled House. On Friday, Congressmember Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez took to the House floor to call out Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell for sending the Senate home for Thanksgiving without finalizing a coronavirus relief bill.
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Our country is going hungry on the week before Thanksgiving, and the Senate broke. I don’t care what party you are. It is an abandonment of our responsibilities as elected officials who are charged with acting in the public trust.
AMY GOODMAN: AOC is wearing all black. Public Citizen recently tweeted in all capital letters, ”WHY IS THE SENATE ON VACATION WHILE AMERICANS ARE DYING WITH NO RELIEF?” We have 10 seconds, Rob Weissman.
ROBERT WEISSMAN: It’s unconscionable. We’ve got rising hunger, rising homelessness, tens of millions of people out of work. The Senate has refused to act on the bill that passed the House in May, and people are going to suffer as a result. Hopefully we can get a deal done quickly, but this is all resting at the feet of Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump.
AMY GOODMAN: We have to leave it there, Rob Weissman, president of Public Citizen. I’m Amy Goodman. Thanks so much for joining us.