democracynow--2020-10-07--Mary Trump: My Uncle Is Responsible for 210,000 Deaths and Is Now "Willfully Getting People Sick"

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : As President Trump continues to battle COVID-19 from the White House after leaving the hospital on Monday , at least 11 White House officials and their aides have tested positive for the virus .
The people around him , it ’ s more like two dozen .
On Tuesday , Trump ’ s anti-immigrant senior adviser Stephen Miller became the latest high-level official to announce a positive test .
The disease has also reached the highest echelons of the U.S. military .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ and several other senior members of the Pentagon ’ s leadership are quarantining , after the vice commandant of the U.S. Coast Guard , Admiral Charles Ray , tested positive .
In a tweetstorm Tuesday night , Trump fired off more than 40 tweets and retweets over about a half an hour , posting about voting security and conspiracy theories , attacking his political rivals , demanding action on coronavirus relief package , just hours after he had cut off negotiations over the stimulus bill until after the election .
Democratic presidential nominee @ @ @ @ @ @ @ GIF of him saying , “ Get off Twitter , ” with the caption “ Please.
” Trump also falsely claimed in his tweets that COVID-19 is no worse than the flu , even though the virus has killed more than 210,000 people in the United States .
This is the government ’ s top infectious disease expert , Dr. Anthony Fauci , responding to Trump during an interview Tuesday on NBC News .
AMY GOODMAN : Well , for more on Trump ’ s increasingly erratic behavior this election season , we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the only niece of President Donald Trump .
She ’ s a clinical psychologist and author of the best-selling book , published in July , Too Much and Never Enough : How My Family Created the World ’ s Most Dangerous Man .
Mary Trump , welcome back to Democracy Now !
MARY TRUMP : Thanks , Amy .
It ’ s great to be here again .
AMY GOODMAN : Well , let ’ s begin with getting you to elaborate on your tweet on Friday in response to learning that your @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for COVID-19 .
You wrote , “ I reserve my sympathy , empathy , and despair for those who are sick and for those who have died because they were misled , lied to , or ignored .
Wear a f—ing mask , ” you tweeted .
You have said that illness was seen as unacceptable by both Donald Trump and his father , Fred Trump , your grandfather , that illness was seen as a , quote , “ display of unforgivable weakness , ” whether it was themselves or others .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ , your uncle , has done this weekend , after getting released from the hospital and during ?
Now he ’ s drugged up .
He ’ s receiving steroids , dexamethasone , among other drugs , remdesivir and an unusual investigational drug cocktail .
And we ’ re seeing massive numbers of tweets , big switcharounds , from saying he ’ s canceling stim to maybe he would support it .
Can you talk as a clinical psychologist and a person with deep knowledge of your family ?
MARY TRUMP : Sure @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it ’ s very important to remember that this man , who is directly at this point responsible for the death of over 210,000 people and this illness of who knows how many millions , received — is receiving world-class healthcare in world-class medical facilities , provided to him by a system he does not pay into .
So there ’ s that .
Ninety-nine percent of Americans do not receive such care .
And unfortunately , I think this is sort of a worst-case scenario .
Now , obviously , we don @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of Donald ’ s illness will take .
You know , COVID-19 is something that ’ s very tricky and changes course without warning .
So , as his doctor said , we do not know if he ’ s out of the woods yet .
But if he contracted COVID-19 and then emerges relatively unscathed , that ’ s the worst-case scenario , because , as we saw in his tweet the other day , he ’ s not going to take it seriously .
He ’ ll think , “ I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for the rest of you suckers .
I got my care .
I got better .
You deal with it on your own.
” JUAN GONZÁLEZ : And could you talk about how illness was treated within your family by the various generations , of Fred Trump Sr. , obviously , and then , obviously , brought down to Donald Trump , how illness is viewed ?
MARY TRUMP : Sure .
I mean , interestingly , and I don ’ t know how this plays into it , but my great-grandfather died @ @ @ @ @ @ @ when my grandfather was about 12 years old .
So , I ’ m not sure if that had an impact .
I ’ m sure it did have an impact on him , but I ’ m not entirely sure how .
But what I do know is that my grandfather did not tolerate illness .
He did not tolerate weakness of any kind , but he interpreted weakness or defined weakness in a very odd way .
Weakness was kindness , generosity , sensitivity , physical illness , addiction .
All @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they weren ’ t accepted , and they were barely acknowledged .
So , part of the problem is , my grandfather never got sick .
He wasn ’ t sick until he was in his eighties .
And his children were raised with this belief system .
And Donald totally bought into it and also is somebody who ’ s very rarely been sick .
So , it ’ s easy under those circumstances to maintain the position that if you get sick , you ’ re weak , or if you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ re weak .
And I think that has been a large part of how his willful and criminal response to COVID-19 has unfolded .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : And also , the narcissism that is almost daily on display on the part of the president when he holds his press conferences or talks to reporters , your — as a clinical psychologist , your sense of how this narcissism — it ’ s almost delusional at times .
Everyone is always , according to him , praising the enormous accomplishments of his administration .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ ve obviously seen this often , as we have , on television .
Your reaction to it ?
MARY TRUMP : It ’ s of a piece with how he ’ s been in his entire life .
For various kind of complicated reasons , Donald understood from a very early age that in order to survive in the family , he had to present himself as somebody who was the best , the greatest , the — somebody who was never wrong , so therefore never had to admit mistakes .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as people enable him .
And that , to me , is the biggest question right now , and it ’ s the greatest danger .
Why are people in his inner circle continuing to enable this man , who clearly is unfit and , I mean , has been , but now I don ’ t know if we ’ re dealing with the side effects from the dexamethasone , which can include mania , or what ?
But , you know , these displays of extraordinary narcissism are delusional and are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ AMY GOODMAN : In speaking about how Donald Trump deals with illness in the family and among friends , we all know from research on his relationship with Roy Cohn , where the vicious anti-communist , who worked next to Joe McCarthy , was very close to Donald Trump , right ?
Donald Trump learned at his knee .
He would eventually die of AIDS .
They were deeply close , talked and visited all the time .
As Roy Cohn was dying , Trump distanced himself , cut him off — himself @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you have the situation of your own dad , Mary , of your father , who you talk about Donald Trump leaving when he died in the hospital .
Can you describe that for us ?
MARY TRUMP : Yeah .
In both cases , it was certainly the illnesses that Donald couldn ’ t deal with , but it was also the cause of the illness — in Roy Cohn ’ s case , his homosexuality , which I ’ m pretty sure Donald would not have been comfortable with , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ his alcoholism , which , in my family , was considered a moral failing .
So , when my dad , at the age of 42 , was finally taken to the hospital , after having been very ill for a couple of weeks , at least , Donald went to my grandparents ’ house , and my grandparents sat in their library waiting by the phone to hear from the doctors , while my father was in an emergency room dying alone .
And in order to pass the time , instead @ @ @ @ @ @ @ my aunt Elizabeth went to the movies .
AMY GOODMAN : And there , your father was dying without his family there .
MARY TRUMP : Yes , as the COVID patients must do .
AMY GOODMAN : I also wanted to read from Vanity Fair .
“ 'Don Jr. thinks Trump is acting crazy , ' one of the sources told me.
” This is a story by Gabriel Sherman .
Of course , Donald Trump Jr. is your cousin , Donald Trump , the son of the president .
Vanity Fair @ @ @ @ @ @ @ stunt outraged medical experts , including an attending physician at Walter Reed .
According to sources , Don Jr. has told friends that he tried lobbying Ivanka Trump , Eric Trump , and Jared Kushner to convince the president that he needs to stop acting unstable .
'Don Jr. has said he wants to stage an intervention , but Jared and Ivanka keep telling Trump how great he 's doing , ’ a source said .
Don Jr. is said to be reluctant to confront his father alone .
'Don said , “ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ only one to tell him he ’ s acting crazy , ” ’ the source added.
” Now , this has all been denied .
But your response to the enabling by the family ?
You know , we saw at the first debate — who knows if there will be another presidential debate ?
President Trump says he ’ s going to do it , but he ’ s infected with COVID virus right now , and Vice President Biden said he ’ s not going to debate him if he ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at that first debate the entire family sitting down , taking off their masks , and despite a Cleveland Clinic doctor coming over to give them masks and say , “ Please put them on , ” they refuse , the entire group of them .
Do you find this likely , what your cousin , Donald Trump Jr. , said ?
And just your overall response to this ?
MARY TRUMP : Where to start ?
First of all , I have no idea why they can ’ t hold these debates @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , it doesn ’ t sound right .
I mean , first of all , has Donnie not been paying attention ?
Like , he ’ s just beginning to realize that Donald is behaving erratically ?
So , but if he did say those things , it doesn ’ t surprise me at all that the rest of them lobbied against him and are going to continue to enable Donald .
These are the most arrogant , entitled people .
That display at the first debate was grotesque .
Now , what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they weren ’ t made to leave .
They agreed to the debate rules .
They broke the rules .
And then they sat there , their smug , satisfied selves , potentially infecting all of the people around them .
Do they not understand that they are just as at risk as everybody else , and they could be bringing the virus home to their children ?
It ’ s just — I know they don ’ t care about anybody else .
We need to be very clear : Donald doesn @ @ @ @ @ @ @ His children don ’ t care about anybody else .
You know , I guess they ’ re just entitled people who think that they are immune and above it all .
But they ’ re not complete idiots .
Unlike the people they ’ re trying to pull a fast one on , they believe in science .
So , for them to sit there and be so cavalier with their own health and the health of their families is extraordinary .
But since they are like this , why do these @ @ @ @ @ @ @ by the rules ?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : Mary Trump , I ’ d like to go back to that first debate that you ’ ve mentioned , the extraordinary display of Donald Trump , the president , in terms of refusing to abide by the rules that his own campaign had set up .
Chris Wallace tried everything possible to try to get him to abide by the rules , and was unsuccessful in doing so .
As you watched that , what was your reaction to the total lack of respect for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the president displayed ?
MARY TRUMP : Well , it ’ s totally on brand , first of all .
Not sure when he ’ s ever shown respect for the rules or the norms .
But mostly what I saw was a desperate man .
I am fairly certain he probably went into this debate knowing that he had to flood the zone , which is one of his favorite tactics , to avoid serious , in-depth policy discussions , because his administration has failed on the policy level across the board @ @ @ @ @ @ @ want anybody , especially Joe Biden , to get in any valid points .
But I think as soon he realized it wasn ’ t working — you know , he wasn ’ t getting under Joe Biden ’ s skin , and the talking points that he had prepared in advance weren ’ t sticking — he lost control .
And I don ’ t think anybody could have put a stop to it .
You know , it would have been great if they could have cut his mic .
But @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to see more of the same , especially if he ’ s still on these medications that have such powerful and potentially debilitating side effects .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : And are you aware whether Donald Trump has ever been treated for any kind of psychological disorders ?
MARY TRUMP : I ’ m not aware .
I would be shocked if he had been , because to be treated for something is to admit that you need the treatment , and I don ’ t see him having any self-awareness .
And clearly @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ t care about his well-being .
If they did , he ’ d still be at Walter Reed .
AMY GOODMAN : And President Trump putting those Secret Service agents at risk by demanding to be brought outside and do a drive-by wave to his supporters ?
And then it goes to the household help , so to speak , the staff at the White House .
We watched as President Trump walked up those steps to the first floor balcony of the White House — certainly , where you have visited @ @ @ @ @ @ @ off his mask , in a very deliberate action , gave the thumbs up , did a salute and then didn ’ t put the mask back on as he walked in .
He kept it off .
Let ’ s talk about the household staff .
Ai-jen Poo of Domestic Workers Alliance had a harsh tweet criticizing this .
We already know that two members of the staff have tested positive .
The staff at the White House — and we ’ re talking about scores of people , nearly a hundred @ @ @ @ @ @ @ tested positive .
But before the White House press secretary got sick with COVID herself , she said they ’ re no longer going to say numbers or names .
They ’ re overwhelmingly older , African American , people of color .
Mary Trump , if you can talk about his attitude to the people who work for him ?
MARY TRUMP : One of the greatest scams in recent political history was getting people to believe that he cared about working people .
This is beyond disgraceful .
The people who @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have been there for decades .
You know , they do their part to serve their country .
These are dignified , dedicated working people .
And he doesn ’ t care about them .
People need to get this through their heads : Donald doesn ’ t care about you .
He doesn ’ t care about the American worker .
He doesn ’ t care about the people closest to him .
So , there can ’ t be any pretense anymore .
You know , I saw the entire scene @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the balcony , where he took off that mask , as if he were a tough guy , which he ’ s not .
First of all , it was just a total — it was a perfect distillation of this administration .
It ’ s Donald confronting his abysmal weakness by pretending he ’ s strong .
It ’ s the people around him continuing to fail to rein him in , either because they don ’ t want to risk anything or they just don ’ t care , and Donald @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s safety because he ’ s so selfish .
It ’ s got to stop .
I don ’ t know what ’ s going on with the Republican Party , but I ’ ve said this before , and I will continue to say it .
At this point , Donald is knowingly and willfully getting people in this country sick , and many of them are dying .
There ’ s no other way to put it , but it ’ s mass murder , because he knows what could @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he ’ s continuing to do nothing , and he ’ s making it worse every single day through his lies and his behaviors .
AMY GOODMAN : Dr. Fauci says , by December , if this keeps up , we could see something like 400,000 Americans dead .
But last month — I wanted to switch gears , Mary — you filed a lawsuit in Manhattan accusing President Trump , his sister Maryanne Trump Barry and his recently deceased brother Robert Trump , your aunt and uncles , of civil conspiracy and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s siblings tricked you into signing away your stake in the family company after your father , Fred Trump Jr. , died .
Can you talk about this and this lawsuit that you have just launched since we last spoke and the revelations that have come out by some of the same reporters who reported on the information you got from your lawyer decades ago , when you had a settlement with your family ?
MARY TRUMP : Sure .
Yeah , it was not until the brilliant Susanne Craig and Russ Buettner @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I realized just what had been done to me .
And what was even worse than the fraud my family committed against me was how many decades they had spent committing the fraud .
So , it was a very well-orchestrated , long-term strategy they had .
So , part of it , part of the reason they were able to pull it off , was because my dad died when I was 16 , and they became my trustees and fiduciaries , and they just kept me in the dark about everything @ @ @ @ @ @ @ had a share of .
I had no idea what my partnerships meant or anything .
So , when my grandfather died when I was 36 years old , I still didn ’ t really know what I had .
So , they were able to fix the numbers to their liking , and those numbers were what we based the settlement on .
And now , 20 years later , I know that their valuations of my holdings were incredibly low .
I mean , we ’ re talking tiny fractions of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , you know , people have asked me if I wrote this book for money .
And the answer is , no , I wrote this because I ’ m a deeply concerned American citizen .
The lawsuit , however , is about money , because I would really like to have my stolen property returned to me .
AMY GOODMAN : Well , I want to thank you so much for joining us again , Mary Trump , the only niece of President Donald Trump .
She ’ s a clinical psychologist @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Much and Never Enough : How My Family Created the World ’ s Most Dangerous Man .
When we come back , a reckoning .
We talk about the Greensboro massacre and what happened last night with the Greensboro City Council .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: As President Trump continues to battle COVID-19 from the White House after leaving the hospital on Monday, at least 11 White House officials and their aides have tested positive for the virus. The people around him, it’s more like two dozen. On Tuesday, Trump’s anti-immigrant senior adviser Stephen Miller became the latest high-level official to announce a positive test. The disease has also reached the highest echelons of the U.S. military. Joint Chiefs of Staff Chair Mark Milley and several other senior members of the Pentagon’s leadership are quarantining, after the vice commandant of the U.S. Coast Guard, Admiral Charles Ray, tested positive.
In a tweetstorm Tuesday night, Trump fired off more than 40 tweets and retweets over about a half an hour, posting about voting security and conspiracy theories, attacking his political rivals, demanding action on coronavirus relief package, just hours after he had cut off negotiations over the stimulus bill until after the election. Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden fired back, tweeting a GIF of him saying, “Get off Twitter,” with the caption “Please.” Trump also falsely claimed in his tweets that COVID-19 is no worse than the flu, even though the virus has killed more than 210,000 people in the United States. This is the government’s top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, responding to Trump during an interview Tuesday on NBC News.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI: You don’t get a pandemic that kills a million people, and it isn’t even over yet, with influenza. So it is not correct to say it’s the same as flu.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, for more on Trump’s increasingly erratic behavior this election season, we’re joined by Mary Trump, the only niece of President Donald Trump. She’s a clinical psychologist and author of the best-selling book, published in July, Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created the World’s Most Dangerous Man.
Mary Trump, welcome back to Democracy Now!
MARY TRUMP: Thanks, Amy. It’s great to be here again.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, let’s begin with getting you to elaborate on your tweet on Friday in response to learning that your uncle, President Trump, tested positive for COVID-19. You wrote, “I reserve my sympathy, empathy, and despair for those who are sick and for those who have died because they were misled, lied to, or ignored. Wear a f—ing mask,” you tweeted.
You have said that illness was seen as unacceptable by both Donald Trump and his father, Fred Trump, your grandfather, that illness was seen as a, quote, “display of unforgivable weakness,” whether it was themselves or others.
Can you talk about what the president, your uncle, has done this weekend, after getting released from the hospital and during? Now he’s drugged up. He’s receiving steroids, dexamethasone, among other drugs, remdesivir and an unusual investigational drug cocktail. And we’re seeing massive numbers of tweets, big switcharounds, from saying he’s canceling stim to maybe he would support it. Can you talk as a clinical psychologist and a person with deep knowledge of your family?
MARY TRUMP: Sure. First of all, I think it’s very important to remember that this man, who is directly at this point responsible for the death of over 210,000 people and this illness of who knows how many millions, received — is receiving world-class healthcare in world-class medical facilities, provided to him by a system he does not pay into. So there’s that. Ninety-nine percent of Americans do not receive such care.
And unfortunately, I think this is sort of a worst-case scenario. Now, obviously, we don’t know yet what the course of Donald’s illness will take. You know, COVID-19 is something that’s very tricky and changes course without warning. So, as his doctor said, we do not know if he’s out of the woods yet. But if he contracted COVID-19 and then emerges relatively unscathed, that’s the worst-case scenario, because, as we saw in his tweet the other day, he’s not going to take it seriously. He’ll think, “I beat it. So, too bad for the rest of you suckers. I got my care. I got better. You deal with it on your own.”
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And could you talk about how illness was treated within your family by the various generations, of Fred Trump Sr., obviously, and then, obviously, brought down to Donald Trump, how illness is viewed?
MARY TRUMP: Sure. I mean, interestingly, and I don’t know how this plays into it, but my great-grandfather died from the 1918 flu pandemic, so when my grandfather was about 12 years old. So, I’m not sure if that had an impact. I’m sure it did have an impact on him, but I’m not entirely sure how.
But what I do know is that my grandfather did not tolerate illness. He did not tolerate weakness of any kind, but he interpreted weakness or defined weakness in a very odd way. Weakness was kindness, generosity, sensitivity, physical illness, addiction. All of those things he considered weak, they weren’t accepted, and they were barely acknowledged.
So, part of the problem is, my grandfather never got sick. He wasn’t sick until he was in his eighties. And his children were raised with this belief system. And Donald totally bought into it and also is somebody who’s very rarely been sick. So, it’s easy under those circumstances to maintain the position that if you get sick, you’re weak, or if you succumb to an illness, you’re weak. And I think that has been a large part of how his willful and criminal response to COVID-19 has unfolded.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And also, the narcissism that is almost daily on display on the part of the president when he holds his press conferences or talks to reporters, your — as a clinical psychologist, your sense of how this narcissism — it’s almost delusional at times. Everyone is always, according to him, praising the enormous accomplishments of his administration. I’m wondering — you’ve obviously seen this often, as we have, on television. Your reaction to it?
MARY TRUMP: It’s of a piece with how he’s been in his entire life. For various kind of complicated reasons, Donald understood from a very early age that in order to survive in the family, he had to present himself as somebody who was the best, the greatest, the — somebody who was never wrong, so therefore never had to admit mistakes.
And we’ve seen this get worse as people enable him. And that, to me, is the biggest question right now, and it’s the greatest danger. Why are people in his inner circle continuing to enable this man, who clearly is unfit and, I mean, has been, but now I don’t know if we’re dealing with the side effects from the dexamethasone, which can include mania, or what? But, you know, these displays of extraordinary narcissism are delusional and are creating a situation of untenable uncertainty.
AMY GOODMAN: In speaking about how Donald Trump deals with illness in the family and among friends, we all know from research on his relationship with Roy Cohn, where the vicious anti-communist, who worked next to Joe McCarthy, was very close to Donald Trump, right? Donald Trump learned at his knee. He would eventually die of AIDS. They were deeply close, talked and visited all the time. As Roy Cohn was dying, Trump distanced himself, cut him off — himself off from Roy Cohn. And then you have the situation of your own dad, Mary, of your father, who you talk about Donald Trump leaving when he died in the hospital. Can you describe that for us?
MARY TRUMP: Yeah. In both cases, it was certainly the illnesses that Donald couldn’t deal with, but it was also the cause of the illness — in Roy Cohn’s case, his homosexuality, which I’m pretty sure Donald would not have been comfortable with, and in my dad’s case, his alcoholism, which, in my family, was considered a moral failing.
So, when my dad, at the age of 42, was finally taken to the hospital, after having been very ill for a couple of weeks, at least, Donald went to my grandparents’ house, and my grandparents sat in their library waiting by the phone to hear from the doctors, while my father was in an emergency room dying alone. And in order to pass the time, instead of sitting with them, Donald and my aunt Elizabeth went to the movies.
AMY GOODMAN: And there, your father was dying without his family there.
MARY TRUMP: Yes, as the COVID patients must do.
AMY GOODMAN: I also wanted to read from Vanity Fair. “'Don Jr. thinks Trump is acting crazy,' one of the sources told me.” This is a story by Gabriel Sherman. Of course, Donald Trump Jr. is your cousin, Donald Trump, the son of the president. Vanity Fair goes on to say, “The stunt outraged medical experts, including an attending physician at Walter Reed. According to sources, Don Jr. has told friends that he tried lobbying Ivanka Trump, Eric Trump, and Jared Kushner to convince the president that he needs to stop acting unstable. 'Don Jr. has said he wants to stage an intervention, but Jared and Ivanka keep telling Trump how great he's doing,’ a source said. Don Jr. is said to be reluctant to confront his father alone. 'Don said, “I'm not going to be the only one to tell him he’s acting crazy,”’ the source added.”
Now, this has all been denied. But your response to the enabling by the family? You know, we saw at the first debate — who knows if there will be another presidential debate? President Trump says he’s going to do it, but he’s infected with COVID virus right now, and Vice President Biden said he’s not going to debate him if he’s still infected. But you have at that first debate the entire family sitting down, taking off their masks, and despite a Cleveland Clinic doctor coming over to give them masks and say, “Please put them on,” they refuse, the entire group of them. Do you find this likely, what your cousin, Donald Trump Jr., said? And just your overall response to this?
MARY TRUMP: Where to start? First of all, I have no idea why they can’t hold these debates virtually. But that having been said, it doesn’t sound right. I mean, first of all, has Donnie not been paying attention? Like, he’s just beginning to realize that Donald is behaving erratically? So, but if he did say those things, it doesn’t surprise me at all that the rest of them lobbied against him and are going to continue to enable Donald.
These are the most arrogant, entitled people. That display at the first debate was grotesque. Now, what I don’t understand is why they weren’t made to leave. They agreed to the debate rules. They broke the rules. And then they sat there, their smug, satisfied selves, potentially infecting all of the people around them. Do they not understand that they are just as at risk as everybody else, and they could be bringing the virus home to their children? It’s just — I know they don’t care about anybody else. We need to be very clear: Donald doesn’t care about anybody else. His children don’t care about anybody else. You know, I guess they’re just entitled people who think that they are immune and above it all. But they’re not complete idiots. Unlike the people they’re trying to pull a fast one on, they believe in science. So, for them to sit there and be so cavalier with their own health and the health of their families is extraordinary. But since they are like this, why do these people continue not to have to play by the rules?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Mary Trump, I’d like to go back to that first debate that you’ve mentioned, the extraordinary display of Donald Trump, the president, in terms of refusing to abide by the rules that his own campaign had set up. Chris Wallace tried everything possible to try to get him to abide by the rules, and was unsuccessful in doing so. As you watched that, what was your reaction to the total lack of respect for any kind of rule and order that the president displayed?
MARY TRUMP: Well, it’s totally on brand, first of all. Not sure when he’s ever shown respect for the rules or the norms. But mostly what I saw was a desperate man. I am fairly certain he probably went into this debate knowing that he had to flood the zone, which is one of his favorite tactics, to avoid serious, in-depth policy discussions, because his administration has failed on the policy level across the board. So, he didn’t want anybody, especially Joe Biden, to get in any valid points.
But I think as soon he realized it wasn’t working — you know, he wasn’t getting under Joe Biden’s skin, and the talking points that he had prepared in advance weren’t sticking — he lost control. And I don’t think anybody could have put a stop to it. You know, it would have been great if they could have cut his mic. But I think we’re just going to see more of the same, especially if he’s still on these medications that have such powerful and potentially debilitating side effects.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And are you aware whether Donald Trump has ever been treated for any kind of psychological disorders?
MARY TRUMP: I’m not aware. I would be shocked if he had been, because to be treated for something is to admit that you need the treatment, and I don’t see him having any self-awareness. And clearly, the people closest to him don’t care about his well-being. If they did, he’d still be at Walter Reed.
AMY GOODMAN: And President Trump putting those Secret Service agents at risk by demanding to be brought outside and do a drive-by wave to his supporters? And then it goes to the household help, so to speak, the staff at the White House. We watched as President Trump walked up those steps to the first floor balcony of the White House — certainly, where you have visited, Mary Trump — and he took off his mask, in a very deliberate action, gave the thumbs up, did a salute and then didn’t put the mask back on as he walked in. He kept it off. Let’s talk about the household staff. Ai-jen Poo of Domestic Workers Alliance had a harsh tweet criticizing this. We already know that two members of the staff have tested positive. The staff at the White House — and we’re talking about scores of people, nearly a hundred — we know at least two have tested positive. But before the White House press secretary got sick with COVID herself, she said they’re no longer going to say numbers or names. They’re overwhelmingly older, African American, people of color. Mary Trump, if you can talk about his attitude to the people who work for him?
MARY TRUMP: One of the greatest scams in recent political history was getting people to believe that he cared about working people. This is beyond disgraceful. The people who work in the White House, many have been there for decades. You know, they do their part to serve their country. These are dignified, dedicated working people. And he doesn’t care about them. People need to get this through their heads: Donald doesn’t care about you. He doesn’t care about the American worker. He doesn’t care about the people closest to him. So, there can’t be any pretense anymore.
You know, I saw the entire scene at Walter Reed and the drive-by and the balcony, where he took off that mask, as if he were a tough guy, which he’s not. First of all, it was just a total — it was a perfect distillation of this administration. It’s Donald confronting his abysmal weakness by pretending he’s strong. It’s the people around him continuing to fail to rein him in, either because they don’t want to risk anything or they just don’t care, and Donald showing his complete disregard for anybody else’s safety because he’s so selfish.
It’s got to stop. I don’t know what’s going on with the Republican Party, but I’ve said this before, and I will continue to say it. At this point, Donald is knowingly and willfully getting people in this country sick, and many of them are dying. There’s no other way to put it, but it’s mass murder, because he knows what could be done to stop it, and he’s continuing to do nothing, and he’s making it worse every single day through his lies and his behaviors.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Fauci says, by December, if this keeps up, we could see something like 400,000 Americans dead. But last month — I wanted to switch gears, Mary — you filed a lawsuit in Manhattan accusing President Trump, his sister Maryanne Trump Barry and his recently deceased brother Robert Trump, your aunt and uncles, of civil conspiracy and fraud. You claim your father’s siblings tricked you into signing away your stake in the family company after your father, Fred Trump Jr., died. Can you talk about this and this lawsuit that you have just launched since we last spoke and the revelations that have come out by some of the same reporters who reported on the information you got from your lawyer decades ago, when you had a settlement with your family?
MARY TRUMP: Sure. Yeah, it was not until the brilliant Susanne Craig and Russ Buettner published that article in October 2018 that I realized just what had been done to me. And what was even worse than the fraud my family committed against me was how many decades they had spent committing the fraud. So, it was a very well-orchestrated, long-term strategy they had.
So, part of it, part of the reason they were able to pull it off, was because my dad died when I was 16, and they became my trustees and fiduciaries, and they just kept me in the dark about everything. I had no idea what I had a share of. I had no idea what my partnerships meant or anything. So, when my grandfather died when I was 36 years old, I still didn’t really know what I had. So, they were able to fix the numbers to their liking, and those numbers were what we based the settlement on. And now, 20 years later, I know that their valuations of my holdings were incredibly low. I mean, we’re talking tiny fractions of what I was entitled to.
So, you know, people have asked me if I wrote this book for money. And the answer is, no, I wrote this because I’m a deeply concerned American citizen. The lawsuit, however, is about money, because I would really like to have my stolen property returned to me.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you so much for joining us again, Mary Trump, the only niece of President Donald Trump. She’s a clinical psychologist and author of the best-selling book Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created the World’s Most Dangerous Man.
When we come back, a reckoning. We talk about the Greensboro massacre and what happened last night with the Greensboro City Council. Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-10-07--Headlines for October  7, 2020

Headlines for October  7, 2020

In New Jersey , former Republican Governor Chris Christie remains hospitalized with COVID-19 after he checked himself into Morristown Medical Center on Saturday .
Hospital officials have declined to comment on Christie ’ s health , and his last public comments came Monday in a brief telephone interview with an editor at the New Jersey Star-Ledger , who reported Christie sounded “ raspy.
” Christie was part of President Trump ’ s debate preparation team last week , which also included campaign manager Bill Stepien , Kellyanne Conway , Hope Hicks and Kayleigh McEnany — all of whom have since @ @ @ @ @ @ @ them were wearing masks .
On Monday , President Trump ’ s attorney Rudy Giuliani — who was also present at Trump ’ s debate prep — coughed his way through an interview on Fox News in which he mocked Joe Biden for wearing masks .
Martha MacCallum : “ Mayor Giuliani , thank you so much for your time .
We ’ ll look forward to having you back.
” Martha MacCallum : “ And I hope that cough is not anything bad , where — you ’ re waiting for your @ @ @ @ @ @ @ hope you ’ re going to be healthy and well.
” Giuliani said Tuesday morning he ’ d tested negative for coronavirus .
Giuliani has not gone into quarantine despite his close contacts with several infected people , and appeared maskless at a Republican fundraising event in Manhattan on Tuesday .

In New Jersey, former Republican Governor Chris Christie remains hospitalized with COVID-19 after he checked himself into Morristown Medical Center on Saturday. Hospital officials have declined to comment on Christie’s health, and his last public comments came Monday in a brief telephone interview with an editor at the New Jersey Star-Ledger, who reported Christie sounded “raspy.” Christie was part of President Trump’s debate preparation team last week, which also included campaign manager Bill Stepien, Kellyanne Conway, Hope Hicks and Kayleigh McEnany — all of whom have since tested positive for COVID-19. None of them were wearing masks.
On Monday, President Trump’s attorney Rudy Giuliani — who was also present at Trump’s debate prep — coughed his way through an interview on Fox News in which he mocked Joe Biden for wearing masks.
Rudy Giuliani: [coughs]
Martha MacCallum: … “say it’s OK. He is” …
Rudy Giuliani: [coughs] …
Martha MacCallum: “Mayor Giuliani, thank you so much for your time. We’ll look forward to having you back.”
Rudy Giuliani: “Thank you, Martha. Thank you for the coverage. It’s very good.”
Martha MacCallum: “And I hope that cough is not anything bad, where — you’re waiting for your test to come back, so we hope you’re going to be healthy and well.”
Rudy Giuliani: [coughs] “I hope so, too.”
Giuliani said Tuesday morning he’d tested negative for coronavirus. Giuliani has not gone into quarantine despite his close contacts with several infected people, and appeared maskless at a Republican fundraising event in Manhattan on Tuesday.


democracynow--2020-10-08--Rev. William Barber on Voter Suppression: Republicans Know They Can't Win If Everyone Casts a Ballot

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : Reverend Barber , near the end of the debate , Vice President Mike Pence refused to commit to a peaceful transition of power if Biden wins the election .
Instead , he commented on the Trump administration ’ s legal efforts to restrict mail-in voting .
AMY GOODMAN : So , let ’ s talk about the Trump administration ’ s efforts to stop voting , and also what you ’ re doing .
But the significance of this ?
REV .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ I come from a unique place .
North Carolina was the scene of the crime of the worst voter suppression , after the case out of Alabama and when the Supreme Court gutted Section 5 .
And Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that it ’ s like putting away your umbrella — the Shelby case , it was — putting away your umbrella in a rainstorm .
And in North Carolina , Amy , when it was done , the Republicans there said , “ Now that the problem has — the headache has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we want to.
” And guess what .
Everything Pence just said , we heard in 2013 .
And they tried to roll back every progressive way of voting .
And they actually went to the books and looked at how did it benefit Black and Brown people and young people , and those were the rules they tried to roll back .
And the court said it was surgical — surgical racism .
And what I saw in North Carolina , what we defeated in North Carolina , what we filed suit @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what Trump and Pence are talking about doing on the national level : surgical racism with surgical precision .
I wish the moderator had drilled down on that voting rights case , because , you know , Pence and Trump don ’ t believe in the Voting Rights Act .
I mean , Republicans don ’ t believe in restoring it .
Even the Black one , like Tim Scott , they don ’ t believe in it .
They know they can not win if everybody votes .
They are terribly afraid @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people voting .
So , what are we doing ?
We ’ re saying to people , “ You have to vote.
” We have a campaign called “ We Must Do M.O.R.E.
” And your listeners can go to www.PoorPeoplesCampaign.org .
We ’ ve mobilized more than 5,000 persons to make over a million calls to poor and low-wealth people in eight states , where we know the percentage of poor and low-wealth people that need to turn out to change who sits in the Senate , who sits in the presidency @ @ @ @ @ @ @ mansions and general assemblies , is under 20 % .
We are mobilizing all over the country .
We are putting out people to do poll watching .
And we have a relationship with Forward Justice and the NAACP Legal Defense Fund , creating poll voting protection so that people know where to call , where they have the legal — what their legal rights are .
We ’ re training them .
We ’ re mobilizing a thousand times , a thousand congregations , temples and mosques , that are going to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , over a million people .
We ’ re organizing 10,000 people of faith , that we ’ re asking each one of them to reach out to a hundred people and to get them to the polls and vote .
And we ’ re telling people , vote by absentee ballot .
In North Carolina , where we have 16 days of early voting , vote early .
And if you vote on Election Day , then put your shield on , put your mask on , put your gloves on .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ a folding chair .
Put some water in that lunch bag and vote .
And if they want to come watch us vote , let them watch millions of people , because we ’ re not scared .
We ’ re not giving away this democracy .
Let them come and watch .
And then stop saying Trump won the last time .
He was elected by the Electoral College because of 80,000 votes .
We have to end this mythology that he had some kind of superpower .
The fact of the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not vote .
The fact of the matter — AMY GOODMAN : Reverend Barber , at one point during the debate , a fly landed on Pence ’ s head for nearly two-and-a-half minutes , prompting widespread commentary online .
Professor Ibram X. Kendi , author of the best-selling book How to Be an Antiracist , tweeted , “ As soon as Pence started denying the existence of systemic racism , the fly got him !
” And you have a record last night , a ceiling shattered .
Senator Kamala Harris made @ @ @ @ @ @ @ debate a white man in a presidential or vice-presidential debate .
She was the first Black woman , Indian American woman .
The significance of this , in the last 20 seconds we have ?
REV .
WILLIAM BARBER II : Yeah , she was fusion politics indeed .
She was the second Black woman to be the vice president on a major ticket , first on the stage to debate .
You know , I couldn ’ t help but go to the Book of Exodus , where it talked about where @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ t let my people go , I ’ m going to cause flies to come as a sign of what ’ s wrong .
But I won ’ t let the flies be on the people , but the fly will be a symbol that you ’ re just wrong .
You ’ re lying .
Let my people go.
” And Trump and Pence need to let the people go .
They ’ ve been holding poor and low-wealth people hostage , essential workers hostage .
It ’ s time for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ GOODMAN : Reverend Dr. William Barber , co-chair of the Poor People ’ s Campaign , we want to thank you so much for being with us , speaking to us from Raleigh , North Carolina .
To see the full debate at democracynow.org , go there , and you can see the 90 minutes .
Again , President Trump says he refuses to participate in a virtual debate .
We ’ ll bring you the latest .
Check at democracynow.org .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Nermeen Shaikh .
Stay @ @ @ @ @ @ @ mask .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Reverend Barber, near the end of the debate, Vice President Mike Pence refused to commit to a peaceful transition of power if Biden wins the election. Instead, he commented on the Trump administration’s legal efforts to restrict mail-in voting.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Let me just say, I think we’re going to win this election. President Trump and I are fighting every day in courthouses to prevent Joe Biden and Kamala Harris from changing the rules and creating this universal mail-in voting, that will create a massive opportunity for voter fraud. And we have a free and fair election. We know we’re going to have confidence in it. And I believe in all my heart that President Donald Trump is going to be reelected for four more years.
AMY GOODMAN: So, let’s talk about the Trump administration’s efforts to stop voting, and also what you’re doing. But the significance of this?
REV. WILLIAM BARBER II: You know, I come from a unique place. North Carolina was the scene of the crime of the worst voter suppression, after the case out of Alabama and when the Supreme Court gutted Section 5. And Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that it’s like putting away your umbrella — the Shelby case, it was — putting away your umbrella in a rainstorm. And in North Carolina, Amy, when it was done, the Republicans there said, “Now that the problem has — the headache has been removed, we can do what we want to.” And guess what. Everything Pence just said, we heard in 2013. And they tried to roll back every progressive way of voting. And they actually went to the books and looked at how did it benefit Black and Brown people and young people, and those were the rules they tried to roll back. And the court said it was surgical — surgical racism. And what I saw in North Carolina, what we defeated in North Carolina, what we filed suit against in North Carolina, is now what Trump and Pence are talking about doing on the national level: surgical racism with surgical precision.
I wish the moderator had drilled down on that voting rights case, because, you know, Pence and Trump don’t believe in the Voting Rights Act. I mean, Republicans don’t believe in restoring it. Even the Black one, like Tim Scott, they don’t believe in it. They know they cannot win if everybody votes. They are terribly afraid of poor and low-wealth Black and Brown people voting.
So, what are we doing? We’re saying to people, “You have to vote.” We have a campaign called “We Must Do M.O.R.E.” And your listeners can go to www.PoorPeoplesCampaign.org. We’ve mobilized more than 5,000 persons to make over a million calls to poor and low-wealth people in eight states, where we know the percentage of poor and low-wealth people that need to turn out to change who sits in the Senate, who sits in the presidency, who sits in governor’s mansions and general assemblies, is under 20%. We are mobilizing all over the country. We are putting out people to do poll watching. And we have a relationship with Forward Justice and the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, creating poll voting protection so that people know where to call, where they have the legal — what their legal rights are. We’re training them. We’re mobilizing a thousand times, a thousand congregations, temples and mosques, that are going to organize a thousand people in their congregations, over a million people. We’re organizing 10,000 people of faith, that we’re asking each one of them to reach out to a hundred people and to get them to the polls and vote.
And we’re telling people, vote by absentee ballot. In North Carolina, where we have 16 days of early voting, vote early. And if you vote on Election Day, then put your shield on, put your mask on, put your gloves on. Pack you a lunch. Get you a folding chair. Put some water in that lunch bag and vote. And if they want to come watch us vote, let them watch millions of people, because we’re not scared. We’re not giving away this democracy. Let them come and watch.
And then stop saying Trump won the last time. He was elected by the Electoral College because of 80,000 votes. We have to end this mythology that he had some kind of superpower. The fact of the matter is, 100 million people did not vote. The fact of the matter —
AMY GOODMAN: Reverend —
REV. WILLIAM BARBER II: — [inaudible] did not vote.
AMY GOODMAN: Reverend Barber, at one point during the debate, a fly landed on Pence’s head for nearly two-and-a-half minutes, prompting widespread commentary online. Professor Ibram X. Kendi, author of the best-selling book How to Be an Antiracist, tweeted, “As soon as Pence started denying the existence of systemic racism, the fly got him!” And you have a record last night, a ceiling shattered. Senator Kamala Harris made history as the first Black woman to debate a white man in a presidential or vice-presidential debate. She was the first Black woman, Indian American woman. The significance of this, in the last 20 seconds we have?
REV. WILLIAM BARBER II: Yeah, she was fusion politics indeed. She was the second Black woman to be the vice president on a major ticket, first on the stage to debate. You know, I couldn’t help but go to the Book of Exodus, where it talked about where God said, “If you don’t let my people go, I’m going to cause flies to come as a sign of what’s wrong. But I won’t let the flies be on the people, but the fly will be a symbol that you’re just wrong. You’re lying. Let my people go.” And Trump and Pence need to let the people go. They’ve been holding poor and low-wealth people hostage, essential workers hostage. It’s time for a change in this country.
AMY GOODMAN: Reverend Dr. William Barber, co-chair of the Poor People’s Campaign, we want to thank you so much for being with us, speaking to us from Raleigh, North Carolina.
To see the full debate at democracynow.org, go there, and you can see the 90 minutes. Again, President Trump says he refuses to participate in a virtual debate. We’ll bring you the latest. Check at democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh. Stay safe. Save lives. Wear a mask.


democracynow--2020-10-08--Rev. William Barber: Millions Are Struggling. So Why Do the Debates Ignore Poverty?

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Nermeen Shaikh .
Vice President Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris met in Salt Lake City , Utah , Wednesday night for their only vice-presidential debate of the campaign season .
On the issue of the economy , Pence argued it had been growing too slowly under the Obama-Biden administration , and made no mention of the economic collapse during the coronavirus pandemic .
This exchange @ @ @ @ @ @ @ spend the rest of the hour with Reverend Dr. William Barber , co-chair of the Poor People ’ s Campaign , president of Repairers of the Breach , joining us from Raleigh , North Carolina .
Can you talk about the framing of not only the vice-presidential debate , but the presidential debates — not only that , what these candidates are willing to talk about when it comes to issues of poverty — I don ’ t know if that word was mentioned even once last night — and other economic crises @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
REV .
WILLIAM BARBER II : You know , one of the things that continues to bother us in the way in which the moderators don ’ t even bring up an issue that , before COVID-19 , was impacting 43 % of this nation .
A hundred forty million people , before COVID , were poor and low-wealth , and 62 million people working for less than a living wage .
And since COVID , we know that millions have been added to the poverty and low-wealth numbers .
We ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the new poor .
We know we had 87 million people before COVID that were either uninsured or underinsured , and now some 20 million people have been added because of people who have lost their insurance because they ’ ve lost their jobs .
Forty percent of the jobs that make $ 40,000 a year have been lost .
And the framing , it ’ s amazing that we can ’ t start there .
I think Senator Harris did a tremendous job in pointing out the economic injustice , but one @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we have to stop saying things were well before COVID .
It ’ s almost as though we give that away to the Trump and Pence .
The reality is , Wall Street was well .
The reality is , those who got his tax cuts were well .
The reality is , though , that before COVID , they were trying to overturn healthcare .
Before COVID , they were blocking living wages .
Before COVID , we were not addressing the issue of poor and low-wealth people .
And we have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
I wish the moderators would just talk about that and open it up , Amy , because 64 million poor and low-wealth people were eligible to vote in the last election .
That ’ s nearly one-third of the electorate .
Thirty-four million did not vote .
And a study that we just recently did , called power unleashed — “ Unleashing the Power of Poor and Low-Wealth Voters , ” said that the number one reason that poor and low-wealth people did not vote — this actually was a tri-reason : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ their issues ; the lack of transportation , and they can ’ t get off the job ; and voter suppression .
But that ’ s the very group that in 15 states if just 1 to 20 % of them vote — Michigan , 1 % ; North Carolina , 19 % ; Florida , 7 % — could fundamentally shift the electorate .
And they deserve to no longer be marginalized , but to be heard and to be talked about in these debates .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : And , Reverend @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ask you about one aspect of what this widespread poverty , before the pandemic and after the pandemic , has induced , namely food insecurity .
According to the Census Bureau and the Department of Agriculture , the level of hunger in U.S. households has tripled since 2019 , and the proportion of American children who sometimes don ’ t have enough to eat is now as much as 14 times higher than last year .
So , could you talk about that particular issue , and your assessment of the Biden-Harris plan @ @ @ @ @ @ @ WILLIAM BARBER II : Well , you know , when Pence talked last night , he told what my grandmother called a bold-faced lie .
The first CARES Act , 83 % of the money went to corporations and banks .
It did not go to the people .
And when we look at COVID-19 , we know that the fissures of systemic racism and systemic poverty have actually allowed this pandemic to have a greater hold on our American society .
We know that when we talk about death , we have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s not just people are dying , poor people are dying .
People who make less than $ 50,000 a year are dying .
People are dying who are among the poor , whether it be white , Black —disproportionately among Black and Brown and Indigenous people , and that COVID has killed more people in the U.S. than Americans were killed in battle in five of our most recent wars — Korea , Vietnam , Iraq , the War in Afghanistan and the Persian Gulf War .
I mean , this is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we ’ re talking about this devastation that ’ s happening among poor and low-wealth people .
And then we ’ re talking about the residual , the other impacts .
For instance , 13 million people , one study says , that we did , who make under $ 50,000 a year , one in five , don ’ t know where they ’ re going to get their next food .
They don ’ t know how they ’ re going to eat .
You know , millions , upwards of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
One of the things I like about the fact of the Biden-Harris plan is that they are , number one , not talking about taking people ’ s healthcare .
The Trump-Pence plan , that ’ s what they ’ re saying : “ Elect us .
We ’ ll take your healthcare.
” The Biden-Harris plan is talking about raising people ’ s living wages , $ 15 an hour .
The Trump-Pence plan is talking about giving more money to the wealthy .
In fact , the Trump-Pence-McConnell plan , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they want another $ 200 billion in tax cuts , they want money for a fighter jet , and they want to protect corporations from liability when those corporations didn ’ t protect their people from coronavirus .
So , what we have is two different worlds operating .
Pence , with a straight face , lying , basically said , “ Vote for us , and we ’ ll take your healthcare and undermine your preexisting conditions .
Vote for us , and we ’ ll block living wages .
Vote for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the environment .
Vote for us .
Vote for us , and we ’ ll put people on the Supreme Court who will be against your healthcare , against labor rights.
” You know , one of the things people forget about this nominee is that she voted against people getting overtime pay .
And so , we ’ re living in two different worlds .
Not only will Pence and Trump not acknowledge racism when it comes to police violence , they are not even acknowledging the disparate racism in economics and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so on .
So , on the one hand , while Pence and — while Biden and Harris may not be every , fully where the Poor People ’ s Campaign are , they are in the world of wanting to do more .
They ’ re in the sphere of wanting to increase .
They ’ re in the sphere of wanting to make sure that the people have what they need , as opposed to wanting to only secure the wealthy and the greedy .
And it ’ s tragic .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ the vice president — you talk about disrespecting people — number one , not only to lie to them , but to be so bold that you literally look people in the eye and say , in essence , “ Vote for me , and I ’ ll take from you .
Vote for me in the midst of a pandemic , and I ’ ll take healthcare , even in the midst of all of this death .
All of this death.
” There ’ s something wrong with Trump and Pence @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the soul , and McConnell and the Republicans who have decided to hold onto these positions .
It ’ s immoral .
It ’ s constitutionally inconsistent .
It ’ s economically insane .
And it is a form of necropolitics , the politics of death , that is contrary to everything we say we believe in on paper , like life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.
Vice President Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris met in Salt Lake City, Utah, Wednesday night for their only vice-presidential debate of the campaign season. On the issue of the economy, Pence argued it had been growing too slowly under the Obama-Biden administration, and made no mention of the economic collapse during the coronavirus pandemic. This exchange begins with Senator Kamala Harris.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS: On the issue of the economy, I think there couldn’t be a more fundamental difference between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Joe Biden believes you measure the health and the strength of America’s economy based on the health and the strength of the American worker and the American family. On the other hand, you have Donald Trump, who measures the strength of the economy based on how rich people are doing, which is why he passed a tax bill benefiting the top 1% and the biggest corporations of America, leading to a $2 trillion deficit that the American people are going to have to pay for. On day one, Joe Biden will repeal that tax bill. He’ll get rid of it. And what he’ll do with the money is invest it in the American people. …
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: America, you just heard heard Senator Harris tell you, on day one, Joe Biden is going to raise your taxes. It’s really remarkable to think, Susan.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS: That’s not what I said.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: I mean, right after a time where we’re going through a pandemic that lost 22 million jobs at the height, we’ve already added back 11.6 million jobs, because we had a president who cut taxes, rolled back regulation, unleashed American energy, fought for free and fair trade, and secured $4 trillion from the Congress of the United States to give direct payments to families, save 50 million jobs through the Paycheck Protection Program. We literally have spared no expense to help the American people and the American worker through this. …
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS: The American people know what I’m talking about. You know. I think about 20-year-olds — you know, we have a 20-year-old, a 20-something-year-old — who are coming out of high school and college right now, and you’re wondering, “Is there going to be a job there for me?” We’re looking at people who are trying to figure out how they’re going to pay rent by the end of the month. Almost half of American renters are worried about whether they’re going to be able to pay rent by the end of the month. This is where the economy is in America right now. And it is because of the catastrophe and the failure of leadership of this administration.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Kamala Harris and Mike Pence.
We spend the rest of the hour with Reverend Dr. William Barber, co-chair of the Poor People’s Campaign, president of Repairers of the Breach, joining us from Raleigh, North Carolina.
Can you talk about the framing of not only the vice-presidential debate, but the presidential debates — not only that, what these candidates are willing to talk about when it comes to issues of poverty — I don’t know if that word was mentioned even once last night — and other economic crises that people are facing, Dr. Barber?
REV. WILLIAM BARBER II: You know, one of the things that continues to bother us in the way in which the moderators don’t even bring up an issue that, before COVID-19, was impacting 43% of this nation. A hundred forty million people, before COVID, were poor and low-wealth, and 62 million people working for less than a living wage. And since COVID, we know that millions have been added to the poverty and low-wealth numbers. We’re well over 50% because of the new poor. We know we had 87 million people before COVID that were either uninsured or underinsured, and now some 20 million people have been added because of people who have lost their insurance because they’ve lost their jobs. Forty percent of the jobs that make $40,000 a year have been lost. And the framing, it’s amazing that we can’t start there.
I think Senator Harris did a tremendous job in pointing out the economic injustice, but one of the things I would say is we have to stop saying things were well before COVID. It’s almost as though we give that away to the Trump and Pence. The reality is, Wall Street was well. The reality is, those who got his tax cuts were well. The reality is, though, that before COVID, they were trying to overturn healthcare. Before COVID, they were blocking living wages. Before COVID, we were not addressing the issue of poor and low-wealth people. And we have to find a way to say that.
I wish the moderators would just talk about that and open it up, Amy, because 64 million poor and low-wealth people were eligible to vote in the last election. That’s nearly one-third of the electorate. Thirty-four million did not vote. And a study that we just recently did, called power unleashed — “Unleashing the Power of Poor and Low-Wealth Voters,” said that the number one reason that poor and low-wealth people did not vote — this actually was a tri-reason: They never hear their names called, their issues; the lack of transportation, and they can’t get off the job; and voter suppression. But that’s the very group that in 15 states if just 1 to 20% of them vote — Michigan, 1%; North Carolina, 19%; Florida, 7% — could fundamentally shift the electorate. And they deserve to no longer be marginalized, but to be heard and to be talked about in these debates.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Reverend Barber, I’d like to ask you about one aspect of what this widespread poverty, before the pandemic and after the pandemic, has induced, namely food insecurity. According to the Census Bureau and the Department of Agriculture, the level of hunger in U.S. households has tripled since 2019, and the proportion of American children who sometimes don’t have enough to eat is now as much as 14 times higher than last year. So, could you talk about that particular issue, and your assessment of the Biden-Harris plan, their anti-poverty proposal?
REV. WILLIAM BARBER II: Well, you know, when Pence talked last night, he told what my grandmother called a bold-faced lie. The first CARES Act, 83% of the money went to corporations and banks. It did not go to the people.
And when we look at COVID-19, we know that the fissures of systemic racism and systemic poverty have actually allowed this pandemic to have a greater hold on our American society. We know that when we talk about death, we have to be exact, that it’s not just people are dying, poor people are dying. People who make less than $50,000 a year are dying. People are dying who are among the poor, whether it be white, Black —disproportionately among Black and Brown and Indigenous people, and that COVID has killed more people in the U.S. than Americans were killed in battle in five of our most recent wars — Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, the War in Afghanistan and the Persian Gulf War. I mean, this is what we’re talking about when we’re talking about this devastation that’s happening among poor and low-wealth people.
And then we’re talking about the residual, the other impacts. For instance, 13 million people, one study says, that we did, who make under $50,000 a year, one in five, don’t know where they’re going to get their next food. They don’t know how they’re going to eat. You know, millions, upwards of 40 million people, are facing eviction.
One of the things I like about the fact of the Biden-Harris plan is that they are, number one, not talking about taking people’s healthcare. The Trump-Pence plan, that’s what they’re saying: “Elect us. We’ll take your healthcare.” The Biden-Harris plan is talking about raising people’s living wages, $15 an hour. The Trump-Pence plan is talking about giving more money to the wealthy. In fact, the Trump-Pence-McConnell plan, they refuse to pass a stimulus because they want another $200 billion in tax cuts, they want money for a fighter jet, and they want to protect corporations from liability when those corporations didn’t protect their people from coronavirus.
So, what we have is two different worlds operating. Pence, with a straight face, lying, basically said, “Vote for us, and we’ll take your healthcare and undermine your preexisting conditions. Vote for us, and we’ll block living wages. Vote for us, and we will not protect the environment. Vote for us. Vote for us, and we’ll put people on the Supreme Court who will be against your healthcare, against labor rights.” You know, one of the things people forget about this nominee is that she voted against people getting overtime pay.
And so, we’re living in two different worlds. Not only will Pence and Trump not acknowledge racism when it comes to police violence, they are not even acknowledging the disparate racism in economics and in healthcare, and so forth and so on. So, on the one hand, while Pence and — while Biden and Harris may not be every, fully where the Poor People’s Campaign are, they are in the world of wanting to do more. They’re in the sphere of wanting to increase. They’re in the sphere of wanting to make sure that the people have what they need, as opposed to wanting to only secure the wealthy and the greedy. And it’s tragic.
And to think that someone running for the vice president — you talk about disrespecting people — number one, not only to lie to them, but to be so bold that you literally look people in the eye and say, in essence, “Vote for me, and I’ll take from you. Vote for me in the midst of a pandemic, and I’ll take healthcare, even in the midst of all of this death. All of this death.” There’s something wrong with Trump and Pence, I mean, deep down in the soul, and McConnell and the Republicans who have decided to hold onto these positions. It’s immoral. It’s constitutionally inconsistent. It’s economically insane. And it is a form of necropolitics, the politics of death, that is contrary to everything we say we believe in on paper, like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.