democracynow--2020-05-07--How Russia Became the Next COVID-19 Hot Spot: Infection Rate Soars with 10,000 New Cases Each Day

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , here in the epicenter of the pandemic , broadcasting from the studio .
Co-host Nermeen Shaikh is broadcasting from home to protect against community spread .
Hi , Nermeen .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Good morning , Amy .
And welcome to our listeners and viewers around the country and around the world .
AMY GOODMAN : Well , we ’ re turning first to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ rapidly , with a rate of new infections that ’ s the highest in Europe and second only to the United States worldwide .
After weeks of reporting a seemingly low number of cases , infections have exploded in Russia this week , with 10,000 new cases a day since Sunday .
The number of reported cases is more than 177,000 , with more than half the infections in the capital Moscow .
But Moscow ’ s mayor says the numbers there are likely three times higher than reported .
Meanwhile , Russia @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 1,500 .
More than 100 medical workers have died fighting the virus , and many have reported lack of personal protective equipment .
Three doctors mysteriously fell from hospital windows over the past two weeks .
Two of them have died ; one is hospitalized .
The hospitalized doctor previously posted a video on social media calling out the lack of medical equipment and the fact he had to keep working despite testing positive for COVID-19 .
Russian authorities say they ’ re investigating all three cases .
This comes as the Russian @ @ @ @ @ @ @ had been appointed by President Vladimir Putin to lead the response to the virus , has been diagnosed with COVID-19 and is self-isolating .
Two other Cabinet members have also tested positive for the virus .
On Wednesday , President Vladimir Putin said Russia should not rush to lift coronavirus-related restrictions .
AMY GOODMAN : Putin ’ s approval rating has dropped to 59 % , the lowest it ’ s been in 20 years .
For more , we go to Moscow , where we ’ re joined by Joshua Yaffa .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ Moscow correspondent and the author of _Between Two Fires : Truth , Ambition , and Compromise in Putin 's Russia_ .
Welcome to Democracy Now !
, Joshua .
It ’ s great to have you with us .
Why don ’ t you just lay out the landscape for us during this pandemic ?
How has Russia been affected , as we hear about 10,000 new infections in the last 24 hours ?
JOSHUA YAFFA : Sure .
The trajectory is much as you outlined in your introduction .
Throughout March , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ did have — a relatively low number of at least officially recognized cases .
At a time when cases were spiking in much of Europe and beginning to spike in the U.S. , New York especially , Russia had a few hundred cases .
And it looked like either Russia was going to get a delayed — the national-level epidemic in Russia would come with some delay , or maybe Russia might avoid the worst effects of the pandemic , as we ’ ve actually seen in some countries in Central and Eastern @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , it now seems that the answer is pretty clear .
It ’ s that Russia just was a bit slower in dealing with or facing the full brunt of this pandemic , but it ’ s facing it quite dramatically , with statistics that you laid out in the introduction , that the rate of growth of new cases is now second in the world only to the United States — a kind of superpower competition that neither side , I ’ m sure , wants to be winning .
But with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , that puts Russia in the number two position , bringing its total number of cases to over 177,000 , also putting Russia in the top , I think , six or seven for overall cases throughout the entirety of this pandemic .
And it remains largely , though not exclusively , a Moscow phenomenon .
Like in London in the U.K. and New York in the U.S. , the capital and major globally connected metropolis is the epicenter of the epidemic .
About half or even more of all known cases in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ day , when that new case count is released , about half or more are Moscow cases .
So , it ’ s very much a tale of two countries .
You have Moscow , which is being extraordinarily hard hit , and then you have the rest of the country , where you do have isolated pockets of infection .
I wrote a story for The New Yorker last week about infection clusters that were breaking out at some of the remote oil and gas fields in Siberia and the Far North @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have workers living in very cramped conditions , turning those worksites into hot spots .
And I think that ’ s the main worry for the Russian government , going forward , is how much does coronavirus , on the Russian scale , continue to be a Moscow issue , and how much does it turn into a nationwide one , like in so many capital cities around the world , but , I think , in Russia all the more dramatically .
Moscow is a very different place than the rest of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ things like infrastructure , per capita spending on healthcare , and other measures , transport , other infrastructure questions .
So , you haven ’ t necessarily seen Moscow hospitals stretched beyond the breaking point .
They have been pushed to their limit .
You ’ ve seen announcements from hospital directors , as well as more informal announcements on social media and elsewhere from doctors themselves , about being pushed really up into the limit .
But still , perhaps , Moscow hospitals are able to manage even this spiking caseload .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ when it gets to the provincial regions in Russia .
And if the national-scale epidemic begins to filter out into the regions in big numbers , I think that ’ s going to be a much more dangerous and potentially disastrous story for Russia .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Joshua , in a piece that you wrote earlier this year , in March , you talked about various people whom you had spoken to in different parts of Russia who told of having coronavirus symptoms , attempting to get tested , and not being @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Now , we know testing has been a major problem across the world , including , of course , in the U.S .
So could you say a little now about what access to testing is like in Russia and to what extent that accounts for reports of these 10,000 infections , for example , in the last 24 hours ?
JOSHUA YAFFA : Sure .
Like you mentioned , testing was a problem in Russia in early and mid-March , just like it was a problem everywhere .
There didn ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ world at that period that were able to keep up with testing demand .
And indeed , I heard lots of cases of people who seemed to be suffering from the classic , as we now know them , coronavirus symptoms , who weren ’ t able to get a test .
Testing is far from perfect now , but it ’ s certainly been ramped up extensively .
Moscow city is claiming that it ’ s doing about 40,000 , I think , or 50,000 tests a day .
Testing has become @ @ @ @ @ @ @ coming anywhere close to capturing the actual need .
The Moscow city government does put forward this argument that the reason you ’ re seeing such a spike in cases is that now the testing resources and the ability to test has been built up to a level where they can go out into the population and test people , and so the numbers are not necessarily — are reflective of increased testing rather than a spiking spread of the virus .
But that ’ s impossible to check .
The Moscow city @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Kremlin overall political machine , run by a mayor , Sergei Sobyanin , who is very much a loyal member of Putin ’ s political inner circle , even as this mayor , Sobyanin , has emerged as a somewhat , if not exactly independent , then a kind of parallel voice and source of authority in dealing with coronavirus , at least here in Moscow .
But very hard to fact-check some of these claims coming out of the Moscow city government .
But that does say — the Moscow city @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that about half the cases being identified these days , people testing positive , are asymptomatic .
In other words , that suggests , at least in Moscow , the testing is able to get out into wider segments of the population , not just people who are showing up at hospitals who are sick .
And we ’ ve also seen relatively young ages of those testing positive , people under 40 or 50 , which also suggests that it ’ s not just the very sick who are being tested , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ proactive testing regime .
Though , just like everywhere , as I ’ ve been saying , it ’ s obvious that the official numbers , people who have tested positive , nowhere matches the real caseload .
And you even had Moscow ’ s mayor , Sobyanin , this figure I ’ ve referred to , today in an interview reveal that , according to his own or the mayor ’ s office ’ s own estimations , the real number of those infected in Moscow alone is about 2 or 2.5 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people .
That ’ s more than three times the 80,000 people who are officially registered as coronavirus-positive in the capital .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Joshua , could you also talk about the cuts that were made to Russia ’ s healthcare service and how that ’ s impacted Russia ’ s response to this crisis ?
I mean , there have been reports of ambulance drivers having to wait for hours outside emergency wards before the patients that they have in the ambulances are let in .
JOSHUA YAFFA : Sure .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ Russian healthcare really varies whether you ’ re talking about the center of Moscow or the regions .
And those provincial regions have been especially hard hit by a series of reforms that are known or were called , somewhat euphemistically or Orwellian , “ optimization.
” There was an “ optimization , ” in quotes , program in the Russian healthcare system in recent years , which resulted in , among other things , the closing of regional and provincial healthcare centers , merging of various hospitals into one , essentially depriving @ @ @ @ @ @ @ or a clinic in their areas , leaving them without one , forcing people to travel further distances .
So , all of that , of course , weighs very heavily in a negative way when you have a global pandemic hit the country .
And I think that ’ s why it will be so important , and potentially disastrous , if this goes the wrong way .
If the virus reaches into those provincial locations , you just don ’ t have hospitals and doctors who are equipped to deal with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a number of doctors in the regions make appeals , through social media and elsewhere , talking about the lack of protective equipment , being forced to work excruciatingly long shifts without the necessary safety measures and without the necessary equipment and gear in the hospitals to treat and care for patients .
So , healthcare has really been an area that ’ s , if not been neglected , maybe you could say was even targeted , actually , for budget cuts and austerity in Russia in the past several years , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a very vulnerable way in terms of dealing with coronavirus .
AMY GOODMAN : Joshua , could you talk about these three doctors that , what , mysteriously fell out of hospital windows after complaining about the lack of protective gear ?
Talk about where this happened and what ’ s happening with doctors .
Two of them died ; one of them is in critical condition .
JOSHUA YAFFA : Sure .
That ’ s happened — there was one case just outside of Moscow , another one in Siberia , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in southern Russia .
As you said , all those doctors in some way either spoke out about what they were observing with coronavirus in their own facilities — in the case of this young ambulance driver , recorded a video talking about the lack of protective equipment .
Quite curiously , he then surfaced — this was before his fall — to record another video in which he took back his words , leading many to believe he had been pressured by the authorities or his higher-ups into recording that second video @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Other than that , though , it ’ s very hard to say what exactly happened in those three cases .
I know myself and other journalists , both Western and Russian , have been looking into those cases , trying to talk with friends , colleagues , doctors who cared for these individuals , to try and understand what the circumstances of these — whether they were accidents or something more nefarious .
I think it ’ s worth remembering that , sadly and tragically , suicides of doctors , nurses @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we ’ re seeing in the West .
There ’ s been a number of cases in the U.K.
There ’ s been a number of cases in the U.S. , as well .
So there is a dark precedent for medical personnel taking their own lives , people who are at the frontlines of dealing with coronavirus .
But as to what actually happened in these three cases , we just don ’ t have enough information yet .
As I said , I know myself and other people are trying to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
But to say anything more would just be speculation , frankly , at this point .
AMY GOODMAN : And let me ask you about Putin himself and his whole approach to this .
I mean , of course , here in the United States , we ’ re the epicenter of the pandemic in the world , but Russia is moving up quickly .
It has the highest rate of new infections in Europe , the second highest in the world .
Can you talk about how he responded at first @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you ’ re saying , the difference between what ’ s happening in Moscow , where the infection rate is considered extremely high , and in other places , even in the closed cities , for example , that make plutonium , where we hardly know anything about them , what would be happening now ?
JOSHUA YAFFA : Sure .
You know , what ’ s been interesting to observe , for people like myself who watch Russia closely and watch Putin closely , is how hands-off , almost absent , he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this crisis .
We ’ re used to thinking of Putin as this very decisive , almost omnipotent leader who inserts himself into any crisis and extracts maximal personal advantage from it by being the one who is seen to , in his own way , resolve that crisis , again , to his advantage .
And we haven ’ t seen that here .
Putin actually has taken a somewhat backseat , or allowed himself , very conspicuously , to take a backseat , putting other people in charge .
You mentioned @ @ @ @ @ @ @ now himself has come down with coronavirus and is at a hospital in Moscow , as well as the Moscow mayor , Sobyanin , who has really emerged as one of the more forceful , or at least visible , government officials in dealing with coronavirus .
You know , I ’ ve heard various explanations for why Putin has chosen to , at least relatively speaking , sit this one out or not seize the reins in the way we have seen him in previous crises .
One explanation is that , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s rule , 20 years in , he sees himself as a kind of historic , almost messianic figure .
What interests him are the questions of big geopolitics , engaging in negotiations with the OPEC cartel , managing Trump , reasserting Russian will and influence in Europe , and that the virus , to him , has seemed a kind of technical question not totally on the level that he sees his own rule at this point .
Another reason just gets to the nature of Machiavellian political calculation .
There @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ ve seen in recent days , that the virus is going to decrease or in some way dissipate in Russia anytime soon .
The effects could be very damaging , not just the health effects , but , in fact , the economic effects .
Russia is expected to go into a recession this year .
The coronavirus global downturn , paired with the collapse in oil prices , is hitting the Russian economy especially hard .
So it ’ s quite possible that Putin decided that being in charge right now @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that you ’ re only actually likely to lose popularity and legitimacy , and so he ’ s purposely allowing other officials to take the lead , and therefore , potentially , take the blame .
But it has been interesting to see how Putin has not been front and center here , but , again , let these other officials lead — or , rather , not even lead , because there isn ’ t really a coherent nationwide strategy .
It ’ s hard to talk about one top-down policy flowing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ way around the country , which leads to , as you alluded to in your question — we ’ ve talked a bit about very disparate and kind of helter-skelter outbreaks throughout the country .
Moscow , of course , is the country ’ s main hot spot .
But beyond that , you see these outcroppings of cases in places like the remote oil and gas fields of Siberia and the Arctic , a number of regional hospitals , including in the Komi Republic , a northern republic near the Arctic Circle @ @ @ @ @ @ @ locations of the virus , like we ’ ve seen , sadly , in lots of other countries .
So , the virus is popping up in somewhat random and unexpected places throughout the rest of the country .
And if those points begin to connect , and if the virus really seeps into the regions in a more widespread way , as we ’ ve been saying , that could be something that proves even more difficult for the Russian authorities to manage than a local or national epidemic that so far @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And , Joshua , I want to ask about the kind of response from Russians to how the government has dealt with this crisis .
There are dozens of online protests demanding greater financial assistance and compensation .
A fifth of employees , 20 % of employees , in Russia have already been either — have already lost their jobs or are on unpaid leave .
What kind of financial safety net has the government provided ?
And then , second , you mentioned the economic impact of this crisis and the oil @ @ @ @ @ @ @ industry in Russia employs , I think , something like a million workers .
So , could you talk about both these things , what kind of — NERMEEN SHAIKH : — a safety net the Russian government has provided for those who have lost their jobs , and the impact of the combination of the collapse of oil prices and the coronavirus emergency ?
JOSHUA YAFFA : Sure .
To your first question , there , frankly , haven ’ t been many measures at all , which is leading , in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in Putin ’ s popularity — not the spread of the virus itself , but , rather , the spillover economic effects that aren ’ t really being dealt with in a coherent , top-down way .
I think that ’ s proving more — taking more of a hit on Putin ’ s rating than even the virus .
As I talked about in my answer to the previous question , in Putin ’ s somewhat absent or not very forceful response , what he ’ s done is he ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for the country .
These aren ’ t official quarantines ; that ’ s left up to governors and mayors .
It ’ s Moscow ’ s mayor , who I ’ ve been talking about , who actually decreed that in the city of Moscow there would be a quarantine .
All Putin has done is announce this rolling series of nonworking holidays .
And what that means is that the government does not obligate itself to pay any sort of wide-scale compensation , not to employers and not to employees .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ their job as a result of this crisis , that all employers should continue to pay salaries .
But with the Russian government not providing wide-scale economic relief for those employers , for small and medium businesses , there simply isn ’ t any money to pay those employees .
So it ’ s a bit of a paradox that the Kremlin hasn ’ t really resolved .
And I think it ’ s growing economic frustrations that are leading to that sort of — if not exactly protest mood , because there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ way to protest right now .
And that may be one thing that helps the Kremlin squeak through this crisis , even if support for Putin and its policies continue to fall .
It ’ s not just difficult , but impossible , to gather people in the street right now for a protest .
As to the question about oil , I think what ’ s more important financially for Russia is not even the amount of people employed in the oil and gas sector — relatively speaking , the extraction of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ enterprise compared to other forms of economic activity — but it ’ s extraordinarily important for the Russian budget .
And I believe a half or more than half of all Russian workers , one way or another , depend on the Russian budget .
They could be considered state employees in one form or another .
So , having money in the federal budget to then distribute around the country , that ’ s what ’ s extraordinarily important .
Historically , or in recent years , the Russian budget has been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ $ 40 or $ 45 per barrel of oil .
Of course , oil has gone much lower than that in recent weeks , stabilized a bit .
But if oil stays low for a considerable amount of time , that ’ s going to really take a big chunk out of the Russian budget .
And it ’ s the ability to spread that budget money around the country that has been an important factor for 20 years of relative , if not stability , then at least longevity of the Putin @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , we want to thank you so much for being with us , Moscow correspondent for The New Yorker magazine , author of Between Two Fires : Truth , Ambition , and Compromise in Putin ’ s Russia .
When we come back , we look at patents versus the pandemic .
We ’ ll speak with the writer who says we ’ ll find a treatment for coronavirus , but drug companies will decide who gets it .
Stay with us .
We ’ re going to Bangalore , India .
AMY @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Equilibrist , ” sung by Elis Regina and composed by the great Brazilian songwriter Aldir Blanc , who died Monday at the age of 73 from COVID-19 .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman, here in the epicenter of the pandemic, broadcasting from the studio. Co-host Nermeen Shaikh is broadcasting from home to protect against community spread. Hi, Nermeen.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Good morning, Amy. And welcome to our listeners and viewers around the country and around the world.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, we’re turning first to Russia, where the coronavirus is spreading rapidly, with a rate of new infections that’s the highest in Europe and second only to the United States worldwide. After weeks of reporting a seemingly low number of cases, infections have exploded in Russia this week, with 10,000 new cases a day since Sunday. The number of reported cases is more than 177,000, with more than half the infections in the capital Moscow. But Moscow’s mayor says the numbers there are likely three times higher than reported. Meanwhile, Russia’s COVID-19 death toll has passed 1,500.
More than 100 medical workers have died fighting the virus, and many have reported lack of personal protective equipment. Three doctors mysteriously fell from hospital windows over the past two weeks. Two of them have died; one is hospitalized. The hospitalized doctor previously posted a video on social media calling out the lack of medical equipment and the fact he had to keep working despite testing positive for COVID-19. Russian authorities say they’re investigating all three cases.
This comes as the Russian prime minister, Mikhail Mishustin, who had been appointed by President Vladimir Putin to lead the response to the virus, has been diagnosed with COVID-19 and is self-isolating. Two other Cabinet members have also tested positive for the virus.
On Wednesday, President Vladimir Putin said Russia should not rush to lift coronavirus-related restrictions.
PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN: [translated] The coronavirus preventative measures need to be preserved or be expanded. Somewhere, it is possible to plan the reasonable lifting, but only based on the opinion of scientists and specialists while taking into account all factors and possible risks. I emphasize again that we must not rush to lift coronavirus-related restrictions. Any negligence or haste can result into a breakdown or a step backward. The price of the slightest mistake is the safety, lives and health of our people.
AMY GOODMAN: Putin’s approval rating has dropped to 59%, the lowest it’s been in 20 years.
For more, we go to Moscow, where we’re joined by Joshua Yaffa. He’s The New Yorker's Moscow correspondent and the author of _Between Two Fires: Truth, Ambition, and Compromise in Putin's Russia_.
Welcome to Democracy Now!, Joshua. It’s great to have you with us. Why don’t you just lay out the landscape for us during this pandemic? How has Russia been affected, as we hear about 10,000 new infections in the last 24 hours?
JOSHUA YAFFA: Sure. The trajectory is much as you outlined in your introduction. Throughout March, Russia looked like it had — and did have — a relatively low number of at least officially recognized cases. At a time when cases were spiking in much of Europe and beginning to spike in the U.S., New York especially, Russia had a few hundred cases. And it looked like either Russia was going to get a delayed — the national-level epidemic in Russia would come with some delay, or maybe Russia might avoid the worst effects of the pandemic, as we’ve actually seen in some countries in Central and Eastern Europe.
A month and change later, it now seems that the answer is pretty clear. It’s that Russia just was a bit slower in dealing with or facing the full brunt of this pandemic, but it’s facing it quite dramatically, with statistics that you laid out in the introduction, that the rate of growth of new cases is now second in the world only to the United States — a kind of superpower competition that neither side, I’m sure, wants to be winning. But with over 10,000 new cases announced every day, that puts Russia in the number two position, bringing its total number of cases to over 177,000, also putting Russia in the top, I think, six or seven for overall cases throughout the entirety of this pandemic.
And it remains largely, though not exclusively, a Moscow phenomenon. Like in London in the U.K. and New York in the U.S., the capital and major globally connected metropolis is the epicenter of the epidemic. About half or even more of all known cases in Russia are in Moscow. And every day, when that new case count is released, about half or more are Moscow cases.
So, it’s very much a tale of two countries. You have Moscow, which is being extraordinarily hard hit, and then you have the rest of the country, where you do have isolated pockets of infection. I wrote a story for The New Yorker last week about infection clusters that were breaking out at some of the remote oil and gas fields in Siberia and the Far North and in the Arctic, where you have workers living in very cramped conditions, turning those worksites into hot spots. And I think that’s the main worry for the Russian government, going forward, is how much does coronavirus, on the Russian scale, continue to be a Moscow issue, and how much does it turn into a nationwide one, like in so many capital cities around the world, but, I think, in Russia all the more dramatically.
Moscow is a very different place than the rest of Russia, especially when it comes to things like infrastructure, per capita spending on healthcare, and other measures, transport, other infrastructure questions. So, you haven’t necessarily seen Moscow hospitals stretched beyond the breaking point. They have been pushed to their limit. You’ve seen announcements from hospital directors, as well as more informal announcements on social media and elsewhere from doctors themselves, about being pushed really up into the limit. But still, perhaps, Moscow hospitals are able to manage even this spiking caseload. It’s a different story entirely when it gets to the provincial regions in Russia. And if the national-scale epidemic begins to filter out into the regions in big numbers, I think that’s going to be a much more dangerous and potentially disastrous story for Russia.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Joshua, in a piece that you wrote earlier this year, in March, you talked about various people whom you had spoken to in different parts of Russia who told of having coronavirus symptoms, attempting to get tested, and not being able to be tested for coronavirus. Now, we know testing has been a major problem across the world, including, of course, in the U.S. So could you say a little now about what access to testing is like in Russia and to what extent that accounts for reports of these 10,000 infections, for example, in the last 24 hours?
JOSHUA YAFFA: Sure. Like you mentioned, testing was a problem in Russia in early and mid-March, just like it was a problem everywhere. There didn’t seem to be many countries in the world at that period that were able to keep up with testing demand. And indeed, I heard lots of cases of people who seemed to be suffering from the classic, as we now know them, coronavirus symptoms, who weren’t able to get a test.
Testing is far from perfect now, but it’s certainly been ramped up extensively. Moscow city is claiming that it’s doing about 40,000, I think, or 50,000 tests a day. Testing has become much more widespread, while still not coming anywhere close to capturing the actual need.
The Moscow city government does put forward this argument that the reason you’re seeing such a spike in cases is that now the testing resources and the ability to test has been built up to a level where they can go out into the population and test people, and so the numbers are not necessarily — are reflective of increased testing rather than a spiking spread of the virus. But that’s impossible to check. The Moscow city government is very much a part of the Kremlin overall political machine, run by a mayor, Sergei Sobyanin, who is very much a loyal member of Putin’s political inner circle, even as this mayor, Sobyanin, has emerged as a somewhat, if not exactly independent, then a kind of parallel voice and source of authority in dealing with coronavirus, at least here in Moscow. But very hard to fact-check some of these claims coming out of the Moscow city government.
But that does say — the Moscow city government is saying, for example, that about half the cases being identified these days, people testing positive, are asymptomatic. In other words, that suggests, at least in Moscow, the testing is able to get out into wider segments of the population, not just people who are showing up at hospitals who are sick. And we’ve also seen relatively young ages of those testing positive, people under 40 or 50, which also suggests that it’s not just the very sick who are being tested, but there’s a kind of proactive testing regime.
Though, just like everywhere, as I’ve been saying, it’s obvious that the official numbers, people who have tested positive, nowhere matches the real caseload. And you even had Moscow’s mayor, Sobyanin, this figure I’ve referred to, today in an interview reveal that, according to his own or the mayor’s office’s own estimations, the real number of those infected in Moscow alone is about 2 or 2.5% of the population, so 300,000 people. That’s more than three times the 80,000 people who are officially registered as coronavirus-positive in the capital.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Joshua, could you also talk about the cuts that were made to Russia’s healthcare service and how that’s impacted Russia’s response to this crisis? I mean, there have been reports of ambulance drivers having to wait for hours outside emergency wards before the patients that they have in the ambulances are let in.
JOSHUA YAFFA: Sure. Like I said, the story of Russian healthcare really varies whether you’re talking about the center of Moscow or the regions. And those provincial regions have been especially hard hit by a series of reforms that are known or were called, somewhat euphemistically or Orwellian, “optimization.” There was an “optimization,” in quotes, program in the Russian healthcare system in recent years, which resulted in, among other things, the closing of regional and provincial healthcare centers, merging of various hospitals into one, essentially depriving localities that had long had a hospital or a clinic in their areas, leaving them without one, forcing people to travel further distances. So, all of that, of course, weighs very heavily in a negative way when you have a global pandemic hit the country.
And I think that’s why it will be so important, and potentially disastrous, if this goes the wrong way. If the virus reaches into those provincial locations, you just don’t have hospitals and doctors who are equipped to deal with them. You’ve already had a number of doctors in the regions make appeals, through social media and elsewhere, talking about the lack of protective equipment, being forced to work excruciatingly long shifts without the necessary safety measures and without the necessary equipment and gear in the hospitals to treat and care for patients. So, healthcare has really been an area that’s, if not been neglected, maybe you could say was even targeted, actually, for budget cuts and austerity in Russia in the past several years, which, again, leaves them in a very vulnerable way in terms of dealing with coronavirus.
AMY GOODMAN: Joshua, could you talk about these three doctors that, what, mysteriously fell out of hospital windows after complaining about the lack of protective gear? Talk about where this happened and what’s happening with doctors. Two of them died; one of them is in critical condition.
JOSHUA YAFFA: Sure. That’s happened — there was one case just outside of Moscow, another one in Siberia, and a third, I believe, down in southern Russia. As you said, all those doctors in some way either spoke out about what they were observing with coronavirus in their own facilities — in the case of this young ambulance driver, recorded a video talking about the lack of protective equipment. Quite curiously, he then surfaced — this was before his fall — to record another video in which he took back his words, leading many to believe he had been pressured by the authorities or his higher-ups into recording that second video in which he recanted his earlier criticisms.
Other than that, though, it’s very hard to say what exactly happened in those three cases. I know myself and other journalists, both Western and Russian, have been looking into those cases, trying to talk with friends, colleagues, doctors who cared for these individuals, to try and understand what the circumstances of these — whether they were accidents or something more nefarious.
I think it’s worth remembering that, sadly and tragically, suicides of doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers is a phenomenon we’re seeing in the West. There’s been a number of cases in the U.K. There’s been a number of cases in the U.S., as well. So there is a dark precedent for medical personnel taking their own lives, people who are at the frontlines of dealing with coronavirus.
But as to what actually happened in these three cases, we just don’t have enough information yet. As I said, I know myself and other people are trying to get to the bottom of these cases. But to say anything more would just be speculation, frankly, at this point.
AMY GOODMAN: And let me ask you about Putin himself and his whole approach to this. I mean, of course, here in the United States, we’re the epicenter of the pandemic in the world, but Russia is moving up quickly. It has the highest rate of new infections in Europe, the second highest in the world. Can you talk about how he responded at first, and then, overall, as you’re saying, the difference between what’s happening in Moscow, where the infection rate is considered extremely high, and in other places, even in the closed cities, for example, that make plutonium, where we hardly know anything about them, what would be happening now?
JOSHUA YAFFA: Sure. You know, what’s been interesting to observe, for people like myself who watch Russia closely and watch Putin closely, is how hands-off, almost absent, he’s been at various points of this crisis. We’re used to thinking of Putin as this very decisive, almost omnipotent leader who inserts himself into any crisis and extracts maximal personal advantage from it by being the one who is seen to, in his own way, resolve that crisis, again, to his advantage. And we haven’t seen that here. Putin actually has taken a somewhat backseat, or allowed himself, very conspicuously, to take a backseat, putting other people in charge. You mentioned the prime minister, Mishustin, who now himself has come down with coronavirus and is at a hospital in Moscow, as well as the Moscow mayor, Sobyanin, who has really emerged as one of the more forceful, or at least visible, government officials in dealing with coronavirus.
You know, I’ve heard various explanations for why Putin has chosen to, at least relatively speaking, sit this one out or not seize the reins in the way we have seen him in previous crises. One explanation is that, essentially, at this stage in Putin’s rule, 20 years in, he sees himself as a kind of historic, almost messianic figure. What interests him are the questions of big geopolitics, engaging in negotiations with the OPEC cartel, managing Trump, reasserting Russian will and influence in Europe, and that the virus, to him, has seemed a kind of technical question not totally on the level that he sees his own rule at this point.
Another reason just gets to the nature of Machiavellian political calculation. There’s no guarantee, as we’ve seen in recent days, that the virus is going to decrease or in some way dissipate in Russia anytime soon. The effects could be very damaging, not just the health effects, but, in fact, the economic effects. Russia is expected to go into a recession this year. The coronavirus global downturn, paired with the collapse in oil prices, is hitting the Russian economy especially hard. So it’s quite possible that Putin decided that being in charge right now is a kind of poisoned chalice, that you’re only actually likely to lose popularity and legitimacy, and so he’s purposely allowing other officials to take the lead, and therefore, potentially, take the blame.
But it has been interesting to see how Putin has not been front and center here, but, again, let these other officials lead — or, rather, not even lead, because there isn’t really a coherent nationwide strategy. It’s hard to talk about one top-down policy flowing from Putin and the Kremlin all the way around the country, which leads to, as you alluded to in your question — we’ve talked a bit about very disparate and kind of helter-skelter outbreaks throughout the country.
Moscow, of course, is the country’s main hot spot. But beyond that, you see these outcroppings of cases in places like the remote oil and gas fields of Siberia and the Arctic, a number of regional hospitals, including in the Komi Republic, a northern republic near the Arctic Circle. Hospitals there became kind of super-spreading locations of the virus, like we’ve seen, sadly, in lots of other countries. So, the virus is popping up in somewhat random and unexpected places throughout the rest of the country. And if those points begin to connect, and if the virus really seeps into the regions in a more widespread way, as we’ve been saying, that could be something that proves even more difficult for the Russian authorities to manage than a local or national epidemic that so far is largely Moscow-based.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Joshua, I want to ask about the kind of response from Russians to how the government has dealt with this crisis. There are dozens of online protests demanding greater financial assistance and compensation. A fifth of employees, 20% of employees, in Russia have already been either — have already lost their jobs or are on unpaid leave. What kind of financial safety net has the government provided? And then, second, you mentioned the economic impact of this crisis and the oil industry. I mean, the oil industry in Russia employs, I think, something like a million workers. So, could you talk about both these things, what kind of —
JOSHUA YAFFA: Sure.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: — a safety net the Russian government has provided for those who have lost their jobs, and the impact of the combination of the collapse of oil prices and the coronavirus emergency?
JOSHUA YAFFA: Sure. To your first question, there, frankly, haven’t been many measures at all, which is leading, in my estimation, more to the downtick in Putin’s popularity — not the spread of the virus itself, but, rather, the spillover economic effects that aren’t really being dealt with in a coherent, top-down way. I think that’s proving more — taking more of a hit on Putin’s rating than even the virus.
As I talked about in my answer to the previous question, in Putin’s somewhat absent or not very forceful response, what he’s done is he’s announced a series of so-called nonworking holidays for the country. These aren’t official quarantines; that’s left up to governors and mayors. It’s Moscow’s mayor, who I’ve been talking about, who actually decreed that in the city of Moscow there would be a quarantine. All Putin has done is announce this rolling series of nonworking holidays.
And what that means is that the government does not obligate itself to pay any sort of wide-scale compensation, not to employers and not to employees. Putin has said no one should lose their job as a result of this crisis, that all employers should continue to pay salaries. But with the Russian government not providing wide-scale economic relief for those employers, for small and medium businesses, there simply isn’t any money to pay those employees. So it’s a bit of a paradox that the Kremlin hasn’t really resolved.
And I think it’s growing economic frustrations that are leading to that sort of — if not exactly protest mood, because there isn’t really anywhere or any way to protest right now. And that may be one thing that helps the Kremlin squeak through this crisis, even if support for Putin and its policies continue to fall. It’s not just difficult, but impossible, to gather people in the street right now for a protest.
As to the question about oil, I think what’s more important financially for Russia is not even the amount of people employed in the oil and gas sector — relatively speaking, the extraction of oil and gas is a pretty labor-unintensive enterprise compared to other forms of economic activity — but it’s extraordinarily important for the Russian budget. And I believe a half or more than half of all Russian workers, one way or another, depend on the Russian budget. They could be considered state employees in one form or another. So, having money in the federal budget to then distribute around the country, that’s what’s extraordinarily important. Historically, or in recent years, the Russian budget has been balanced, I think, at about $40 or $45 per barrel of oil. Of course, oil has gone much lower than that in recent weeks, stabilized a bit. But if oil stays low for a considerable amount of time, that’s going to really take a big chunk out of the Russian budget. And it’s the ability to spread that budget money around the country that has been an important factor for 20 years of relative, if not stability, then at least longevity of the Putin system.
AMY GOODMAN: Joshua Yaffa, we want to thank you so much for being with us, Moscow correspondent for The New Yorker magazine, author of Between Two Fires: Truth, Ambition, and Compromise in Putin’s Russia.
When we come back, we look at patents versus the pandemic. We’ll speak with the writer who says we’ll find a treatment for coronavirus, but drug companies will decide who gets it. Stay with us. We’re going to Bangalore, India.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: “The Drunk and the Equilibrist,” sung by Elis Regina and composed by the great Brazilian songwriter Aldir Blanc, who died Monday at the age of 73 from COVID-19.


democracynow--2020-05-07--Headlines for May  7, 2020

Headlines for May  7, 2020

The Associated Press reports a 17-page report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention offering step-by-step advice to local leaders on when and how to reopen public places has been shelved , with one CDC official saying the document “ would never see the light of day.
” On Capitol Hill , the House Appropriations Committee heard testimony Wednesday from two medical experts who said not a single state or territory in the United States has met all of the White House ’ s own criteria for safely reopening .
Dr. Caitlin Rivers , a professor at the Johns @ @ @ @ @ @ @ states lack adequate diagnostic testing and the capacity to carry out contact tracing .
And she warned that many of the states that are reopening have rising rates of coronavirus infections .
Caitlin Rivers : “ It ’ s clear to me that we are in a critical moment of this fight .
We risk complacency in accepting the preventable deaths of 2,000 Americans each day .
We risk complacency in accepting that our healthcare workers do not have what they need to do their jobs safely .
And we risk complacency in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ will again create the conditions that led to us being the worst-affected country in the world.
” Not testifying Wednesday was Dr. Anthony Fauci , a top infectious disease scientist on the coronavirus task force , who was barred by the White House from appearing before the House Appropriations Committee .

The Associated Press reports a 17-page report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention offering step-by-step advice to local leaders on when and how to reopen public places has been shelved, with one CDC official saying the document “would never see the light of day.” On Capitol Hill, the House Appropriations Committee heard testimony Wednesday from two medical experts who said not a single state or territory in the United States has met all of the White House’s own criteria for safely reopening. Dr. Caitlin Rivers, a professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, said states lack adequate diagnostic testing and the capacity to carry out contact tracing. And she warned that many of the states that are reopening have rising rates of coronavirus infections.
Caitlin Rivers: “It’s clear to me that we are in a critical moment of this fight. We risk complacency in accepting the preventable deaths of 2,000 Americans each day. We risk complacency in accepting that our healthcare workers do not have what they need to do their jobs safely. And we risk complacency in recognizing that without continued vigilance, we will again create the conditions that led to us being the worst-affected country in the world.”
Not testifying Wednesday was Dr. Anthony Fauci, a top infectious disease scientist on the coronavirus task force, who was barred by the White House from appearing before the House Appropriations Committee.


democracynow--2020-05-08--As States Loosen Pandemic Restrictions, Dr. Leana Wen Warns "We Are Not Ready for a Safe Reopening"

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
As more than 40 states begin to reopen their economies , many continue to face a severe shortage of tests .
Meanwhile , President Trump gets tested every day at the White House , yet downplays the importance of tests for the rest of the country .
We ’ re joined now by Dr. Leana Wen .
She ’ s an emergency room physician @ @ @ @ @ @ @ University , previously served as Baltimore ’ s health commissioner .
Her recent piece in The Washington Post is headlined “ As states reopen , here ’ s how you protect yourself from the coming surge.
” Dr. Wen , it ’ s great to have you back with us .
I want to talk about — oh , and congratulations on giving birth .
You just gave birth .
But I want to ask you first about this issue .
President Trump ’ s valet just tested positive for COVID .
He @ @ @ @ @ @ @ yelling at his staff about him not being protected .
A lot of people in this country feel that way .
And the solution has been he ’ s being tested every day at the White House .
Yet most people in this country have nothing like that access , not even to the first test .
Can you talk about why testing is so important , especially as the country reopens ?
DR. LEANA WEN : Well , first of all , I wish that the valet recovers and is in good @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s always my first concern , is about the health of people who are ill. You ’ re right , Amy .
I mean , widespread testing is so critical .
You need to have widespread testing , because that is what we need in order to find out if somebody who has symptoms actually has COVID-19 .
And we also have to know , not only for those who have symptoms , but also for asymptomatic people , because we know that there is a high rate of transmission among people @ @ @ @ @ @ @ all .
We need that testing for the clinical reason of helping to guide clinical decisions and also to guide public health decisions , to understand what is the true rate of COVID-19 in communities .
Estimates are that we need millions of tests , on the orders of 5 million to even 20 million tests a day , to be performed in order to help the country get back to normal and get back to reopening .
That ’ s actually why I ’ m so concerned about reopening now , because @ @ @ @ @ @ @ capacity to do all of these tests .
And you can see , I think , through the president ’ s own example , of why that testing is so important .
It provides reassurance to the president .
Why shouldn ’ t this testing be available to all Americans to give everyone the reassurance that we need to safely return to work and to school ?
AMY GOODMAN : So , you wrote this piece , “ 7 things the administration is getting wrong about testing.
” His new — the White @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , “ What ?
Do you want us to test everyone every hour of every day ?
This is ridiculous.
” Then we immediately hear that President Trump , Vice President Pence are being treated — are being tested every day .
What are these seven things ?
DR. LEANA WEN : Yeah .
So , I ’ ve been listening , I think , as a lot of people have , to the White House Coronavirus Task Force briefings .
Now I don ’ t know how often they ’ ll occur @ @ @ @ @ @ @ frequently .
And during every briefing , it was always mentioned that governors , doctors , hospitals are bringing up the issue of insufficient tests .
And then , one after the other , we would hear the administration give these justifications for why we don ’ t need more tests .
They ’ ll say , “ Well , we don ’ t have the perfect test .
We need better testing.
” Well , perfect can not be the enemy of the good .
No test is perfect .
We just @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Another justification is , “ Well , we just can ’ t get enough tests.
” Well , that ’ s what the federal government is for .
We , as America , we do not say , “ We can ’ t get it done.
” Actually , we should be doing this backwards and saying , “ What do we need in order to reopen this country safely ?
” And if it requires 5 million , 20 million tests a day , then the next question should be : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to get there ?
What is the national effort , directed by the federal government , that ’ s needed in order for us to get there ?
It can not simply be one reason after another .
AMY GOODMAN : I mean , wouldn ’ t this be the invoking of the [ Defense ] Production Act ?
I mean , President Trump just went to Arizona to a Honeywell plant that ’ s now making masks .
Of course , he went unmasked in the plant , despite the fact that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a mask .
And interestingly , the music that was playing over him was “ Live and Let Die.
” But if you can talk about what that would mean , just gearing up plants to not only make masks , but make tests ?
DR. LEANA WEN : Yes .
And not only masks and tests , but really the entire gamut of what we ’ re going to be needing in this pandemic .
This is not a one-time effort .
We ’ re not looking at something that ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ re looking at many months , many years of needing many more supplies .
I mean , unfortunately , we have left our healthcare workers without the proper protection .
It ’ s a travesty that we have let healthcare workers go without masks and gowns and other things that they need to protect themselves , when we could see that shortage coming .
We should also never leave our patients in a position where they might have to fight for a ventilator , where healthcare workers have to decide who gets @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that is an issue that we could be facing .
And then there are issues later on down the line , too .
We always talk about a vaccine as the solution .
Well , vaccines are not the solution .
Vaccinations are .
What happens if we don ’ t have enough syringes or vials or rubber stoppers ?
I mean , that ’ s what I fear .
If we can not even get enough tests and swabs , what ’ s going to happen when we look down the line @ @ @ @ @ @ @ produce millions , maybe billions , of doses of vaccines in large numbers ?
We should be anticipating these needs now , not waiting until it ’ s too late .
And that is the role the federal government — you ’ re right — to kick in the Defense Production Act , but actually to act like a federal government should in coordinating these national efforts , instead of letting individual states and hospitals and doctors to fend for themselves .
AMY GOODMAN : So , you have this situation , Dr. @ @ @ @ @ @ @ its daily medical briefings .
It ’ s rejecting the CDC guidelines as the country is reopening .
It ’ s a 17-page memo that says what states should do if they ’ re going to reopen .
And they have forbidden the top doc on the Coronavirus Task Force , Dr. Fauci , from testifying before the House .
The CDC issue of not allowing this report to see the light of day , talk about the significance of this .
DR. LEANA WEN : I wish that we had briefings every @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the federal government , who are some of the best doctors and scientists in the world .
I mean , the rest of the world looks to these leaders to give sound public health guidance .
I know that I do as a clinician , and clinicians all around the country do .
As a former local public health official , I also depended on the CDC to put out guidance that would help me , in my jurisdiction , to assist restaurants and schools .
And , I mean , there ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ around COVID-19 , we need this expert body to synthesize all the research that ’ s out there to help us with practical guidance for how to do things safely , to reduce risk for everyone .
And frankly , the American people need that information , as well .
So I wish that there were these daily briefings done by these expert doctors and scientists , where they talked about the state of COVID-19 , what ’ s happening around the country , what ’ s the latest research , how can @ @ @ @ @ @ @ reduce our risk .
That ’ s what I would be turning to the CDC for .
And when we ignore science , we pay a price .
And unfortunately , in this case , the price is going to be lives .
AMY GOODMAN : And the issue of masks , the importance of them .
I want to go to this moment — I ’ m just going to just play the first seconds of it — President Trump was quite surprised by , this testy exchange during an Oval Office @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Nurses Day .
Sophia Adams , president of the American Association of Nurse Practitioners , told President Trump she ’ d been forced to use a single N95 mask for weeks due to a shortage of personal protective equipment at her New Orleans hospital .
AMY GOODMAN : So , there ’ s President Trump saying he heard the opposite , as scores of nurses and doctors have died during this pandemic .
But I also wanted to go to , Dr. Wen , people wearing masks and children .
You have a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have your newborn .
And you just participated in a children ’ s teach-in on CNN with Sesame Street .
If you could talk about children ?
Should children wear masks outside ?
And what should parents tell their children about who they ’ re protecting when they wear those masks ?
DR. LEANA WEN : That ’ s an important point about why it is that we ’ re wearing masks .
And look , the guidance around masks has changed since the beginning of this pandemic , which is normal , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ about a new virus , the guidance should be changing .
Initially we were saying no masks , and now we ’ re saying wear a mask .
And the reason is that we wear a mask not to protect ourselves from other people , but to protect others from us , in case we are carriers of COVID-19 and just don ’ t realize it .
And so it is actually a courtesy to everyone else that we ’ re wearing a mask .
And therefore , if we all wear masks @ @ @ @ @ @ @ protecting each other , and we ’ re in this together .
That ’ s what we need to tell our kids .
AMY GOODMAN : Dr. Wen , I ’ m going very quickly because we have so much to cover with you .
One is Kawasaki disease , what we are now learning children are facing during this pandemic ?
DR. LEANA WEN : Children still are less likely to have severe illness than adults .
But we are finding , in both children and adults , that there are these @ @ @ @ @ @ @ disease , but it also seems to be causing problems , inflammations of our blood vessels , or clots in our blood vessels .
And so that ’ s what we ’ re seeing in children and also even in young , healthy adults .
We ’ re seeing young , healthy adults be afflicted with strokes , that might leave them debilitated for life , because of COVID-19 .
And so , this is really a serious disease that we need to be protecting ourselves against .
And I just want to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , that does not mean that you should loosen your own social distancing restrictions .
Stay home if you can , because social distancing is a privilege that not everyone has .
AMY GOODMAN : And then , if you could talk about giving birth in the time of the pandemic ?
We spoke to you just days before , maybe it was a week before , you gave birth .
It was astounding to see you on the networks .
I mean , when was the last time you went on TV @ @ @ @ @ @ @ then when did you go back on ?
What ?
The day after ?
DR. LEANA WEN : Not the day after , but a few days after .
I mean , we are all doing our part .
And this is what I could do , to help provide information during this pandemic .
AMY GOODMAN : And so , tell us what it was like to go to the hospital during this pandemic to have your infant .
DR. LEANA WEN : Very different from the last time that I gave @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ago .
I mean , the guidelines were constantly changing , and so I wasn ’ t even sure that I could bring my husband with me during labor and delivery .
I could , at the end .
But it still just means that this is a time of uncertainty .
And healthcare continues to happen .
So , I would advise for everyone , no matter if you ’ re a pregnant person or if you have any other medical condition , to have a list of your medications , your @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you at all times , because you may not be able to have your advocate with you if you need to go into the hospital .
Make plans , but also know that the plans could be changing , as this is a time of uncertainty .
And I think it ’ s also a time that we have to grant each other a lot of grace , as we ’ re all going through this period together .
AMY GOODMAN : Finally , Dr. Wen , your words of advice as the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the most important thing for people to do ?
DR. LEANA WEN : Frankly , we are not ready for a safe reopening .
We have not met the White House ’ s own criteria .
None of the states that are reopening have met the White House ’ s own criteria .
So , reduce your own risk .
Wash your hands .
Stay social distancing as much as you can .
If you have to go back to work , ask your employer about what their protocols are to keep you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to reduce the risk for others .
Do not plan gatherings .
This is not the time to plan play dates and dinner parties .
It is not safe to do that .
And so , reduce your risk , and know that in keeping yourself safe , you ’ re also reducing the risk for others around you , as well .
DR. LEANA WEN : Just stay safe and stay well .
Know that we can all do our part .
AMY GOODMAN : Thank you so much , Dr. Leana @ @ @ @ @ @ @ health professor at George Washington University , former Baltimore health commissioner .
We ’ ll link to her Washington Post pieces .
The latest , “ As states reopen , here ’ s how you protect yourself from the coming surge.
” As we wrap up this show , I wanted to send good wishes out to a woman who ’ s changed everything .
A very happy , meaningful , landmark birthday to Naomi Klein .
Happy Birthday , Naomi !
Democracy Now !
is working with as few people as possible @ @ @ @ @ @ @ amazing team is working from home .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Thanks for joining us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman. As more than 40 states begin to reopen their economies, many continue to face a severe shortage of tests. Meanwhile, President Trump gets tested every day at the White House, yet downplays the importance of tests for the rest of the country.
We’re joined now by Dr. Leana Wen. She’s an emergency room physician, public health professor at George Washington University, previously served as Baltimore’s health commissioner. Her recent piece in The Washington Post is headlined “As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge.”
Dr. Wen, it’s great to have you back with us. I want to talk about — oh, and congratulations on giving birth. You just gave birth. But I want to ask you first about this issue. President Trump’s valet just tested positive for COVID. He apparently went ballistic, you know, yelling at his staff about him not being protected. A lot of people in this country feel that way. And the solution has been he’s being tested every day at the White House. Yet most people in this country have nothing like that access, not even to the first test. Can you talk about why testing is so important, especially as the country reopens?
DR. LEANA WEN: Well, first of all, I wish that the valet recovers and is in good health. As a physician, that’s always my first concern, is about the health of people who are ill.
You’re right, Amy. I mean, widespread testing is so critical. You need to have widespread testing, because that is what we need in order to find out if somebody who has symptoms actually has COVID-19. And we also have to know, not only for those who have symptoms, but also for asymptomatic people, because we know that there is a high rate of transmission among people who do not have any symptoms at all.
We need that testing for the clinical reason of helping to guide clinical decisions and also to guide public health decisions, to understand what is the true rate of COVID-19 in communities. Estimates are that we need millions of tests, on the orders of 5 million to even 20 million tests a day, to be performed in order to help the country get back to normal and get back to reopening.
That’s actually why I’m so concerned about reopening now, because we don’t have nearly the capacity to do all of these tests. And you can see, I think, through the president’s own example, of why that testing is so important. It provides reassurance to the president. Why shouldn’t this testing be available to all Americans to give everyone the reassurance that we need to safely return to work and to school?
AMY GOODMAN: So, you wrote this piece, “7 things the administration is getting wrong about testing.” His new — the White House press secretary, Trump continually saying, “What? Do you want us to test everyone every hour of every day? This is ridiculous.” Then we immediately hear that President Trump, Vice President Pence are being treated — are being tested every day. What are these seven things?
DR. LEANA WEN: Yeah. So, I’ve been listening, I think, as a lot of people have, to the White House Coronavirus Task Force briefings. Now I don’t know how often they’ll occur, but I was listening to them frequently. And during every briefing, it was always mentioned that governors, doctors, hospitals are bringing up the issue of insufficient tests. And then, one after the other, we would hear the administration give these justifications for why we don’t need more tests. They’ll say, “Well, we don’t have the perfect test. We need better testing.” Well, perfect cannot be the enemy of the good. No test is perfect. We just need these tests to be out there.
Another justification is, “Well, we just can’t get enough tests.” Well, that’s what the federal government is for. We, as America, we do not say, “We can’t get it done.” Actually, we should be doing this backwards and saying, “What do we need in order to reopen this country safely?” And if it requires 5 million, 20 million tests a day, then the next question should be: What can we do as a country to get there? What is the national effort, directed by the federal government, that’s needed in order for us to get there? It cannot simply be one reason after another.
AMY GOODMAN: I mean, wouldn’t this be the invoking of the [Defense] Production Act? I mean, President Trump just went to Arizona to a Honeywell plant that’s now making masks. Of course, he went unmasked in the plant, despite the fact that there were signs saying you should wear a mask. And interestingly, the music that was playing over him was “Live and Let Die.” But if you can talk about what that would mean, just gearing up plants to not only make masks, but make tests?
DR. LEANA WEN: Yes. And not only masks and tests, but really the entire gamut of what we’re going to be needing in this pandemic. This is not a one-time effort. We’re not looking at something that’s done in the next month. We’re looking at many months, many years of needing many more supplies.
I mean, unfortunately, we have left our healthcare workers without the proper protection. It’s a travesty that we have let healthcare workers go without masks and gowns and other things that they need to protect themselves, when we could see that shortage coming. We should also never leave our patients in a position where they might have to fight for a ventilator, where healthcare workers have to decide who gets that last ventilator. We know that that is an issue that we could be facing.
And then there are issues later on down the line, too. We always talk about a vaccine as the solution. Well, vaccines are not the solution. Vaccinations are. What happens if we don’t have enough syringes or vials or rubber stoppers? I mean, that’s what I fear. If we cannot even get enough tests and swabs, what’s going to happen when we look down the line to see what do we need to produce millions, maybe billions, of doses of vaccines in large numbers? We should be anticipating these needs now, not waiting until it’s too late.
And that is the role the federal government — you’re right — to kick in the Defense Production Act, but actually to act like a federal government should in coordinating these national efforts, instead of letting individual states and hospitals and doctors to fend for themselves.
AMY GOODMAN: So, you have this situation, Dr. Wen. The White House is ending its daily medical briefings. It’s rejecting the CDC guidelines as the country is reopening. It’s a 17-page memo that says what states should do if they’re going to reopen. And they have forbidden the top doc on the Coronavirus Task Force, Dr. Fauci, from testifying before the House. The CDC issue of not allowing this report to see the light of day, talk about the significance of this.
DR. LEANA WEN: I wish that we had briefings every single day by our medical experts in the federal government, who are some of the best doctors and scientists in the world. I mean, the rest of the world looks to these leaders to give sound public health guidance. I know that I do as a clinician, and clinicians all around the country do.
As a former local public health official, I also depended on the CDC to put out guidance that would help me, in my jurisdiction, to assist restaurants and schools. And, I mean, there’s so much that’s happening around COVID-19, we need this expert body to synthesize all the research that’s out there to help us with practical guidance for how to do things safely, to reduce risk for everyone.
And frankly, the American people need that information, as well. So I wish that there were these daily briefings done by these expert doctors and scientists, where they talked about the state of COVID-19, what’s happening around the country, what’s the latest research, how can businesses stay safe, how can individuals reduce our risk. That’s what I would be turning to the CDC for. And when we ignore science, we pay a price. And unfortunately, in this case, the price is going to be lives.
AMY GOODMAN: And the issue of masks, the importance of them. I want to go to this moment — I’m just going to just play the first seconds of it — President Trump was quite surprised by, this testy exchange during an Oval Office meeting with medical workers, marking National Nurses Day. Sophia Adams, president of the American Association of Nurse Practitioners, told President Trump she’d been forced to use a single N95 mask for weeks due to a shortage of personal protective equipment at her New Orleans hospital.
SOPHIA ADAMS: So, PPE has been sporadic, but it’s been manageable. And we do what we have to do. We’re nurses, and we learn to adapt and do whatever – the best thing that we can do for our patients to get the job done and get the care provided.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Sporadic for you, but not sporadic for a lot of other people.
SOPHIA ADAMS: Oh, no. I agree, Mr. President.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Because I’ve heard the opposite.
AMY GOODMAN: So, there’s President Trump saying he heard the opposite, as scores of nurses and doctors have died during this pandemic. But I also wanted to go to, Dr. Wen, people wearing masks and children. You have a toddler, a 2-and-a-half-year-old, and you have your newborn. And you just participated in a children’s teach-in on CNN with Sesame Street. If you could talk about children? Should children wear masks outside? And what should parents tell their children about who they’re protecting when they wear those masks?
DR. LEANA WEN: That’s an important point about why it is that we’re wearing masks. And look, the guidance around masks has changed since the beginning of this pandemic, which is normal, because as you find out more information about a new virus, the guidance should be changing. Initially we were saying no masks, and now we’re saying wear a mask. And the reason is that we wear a mask not to protect ourselves from other people, but to protect others from us, in case we are carriers of COVID-19 and just don’t realize it. And so it is actually a courtesy to everyone else that we’re wearing a mask. And therefore, if we all wear masks, then we’ll all be protecting each other, and we’re in this together. That’s what we need to tell our kids.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Wen, I’m going very quickly because we have so much to cover with you. One is Kawasaki disease, what we are now learning children are facing during this pandemic?
DR. LEANA WEN: Children still are less likely to have severe illness than adults. But we are finding, in both children and adults, that there are these unexpected symptoms. This is a respiratory disease, but it also seems to be causing problems, inflammations of our blood vessels, or clots in our blood vessels. And so that’s what we’re seeing in children and also even in young, healthy adults. We’re seeing young, healthy adults be afflicted with strokes, that might leave them debilitated for life, because of COVID-19. And so, this is really a serious disease that we need to be protecting ourselves against.
And I just want to say, even as states are reopening, that does not mean that you should loosen your own social distancing restrictions. Stay home if you can, because social distancing is a privilege that not everyone has.
AMY GOODMAN: And then, if you could talk about giving birth in the time of the pandemic? We spoke to you just days before, maybe it was a week before, you gave birth. It was astounding to see you on the networks. I mean, when was the last time you went on TV right before you gave birth? And then when did you go back on? What? The day after?
DR. LEANA WEN: Not the day after, but a few days after. I mean, we are all doing our part. And this is what I could do, to help provide information during this pandemic.
AMY GOODMAN: And so, tell us what it was like to go to the hospital during this pandemic to have your infant.
DR. LEANA WEN: Very different from the last time that I gave birth in the same hospital two-and-a-half years ago. I mean, the guidelines were constantly changing, and so I wasn’t even sure that I could bring my husband with me during labor and delivery. I could, at the end. But it still just means that this is a time of uncertainty. And healthcare continues to happen.
So, I would advise for everyone, no matter if you’re a pregnant person or if you have any other medical condition, to have a list of your medications, your medical conditions, your emergency contacts with you at all times, because you may not be able to have your advocate with you if you need to go into the hospital. Make plans, but also know that the plans could be changing, as this is a time of uncertainty. And I think it’s also a time that we have to grant each other a lot of grace, as we’re all going through this period together.
AMY GOODMAN: Finally, Dr. Wen, your words of advice as the country opens, what you think is the most important thing for people to do?
DR. LEANA WEN: Frankly, we are not ready for a safe reopening. We have not met the White House’s own criteria. None of the states that are reopening have met the White House’s own criteria.
So, reduce your own risk. Wash your hands. Stay social distancing as much as you can. If you have to go back to work, ask your employer about what their protocols are to keep you safe. Also, do your part to reduce the risk for others. Do not plan gatherings. This is not the time to plan play dates and dinner parties. It is not safe to do that. And so, reduce your risk, and know that in keeping yourself safe, you’re also reducing the risk for others around you, as well.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Leana —
DR. LEANA WEN: Stay away from people.
AMY GOODMAN: Go ahead.
DR. LEANA WEN: Just stay safe and stay well. Know that we can all do our part.
AMY GOODMAN: Thank you so much, Dr. Leana Wen, emergency room physician, public health professor at George Washington University, former Baltimore health commissioner. We’ll link to her Washington Post pieces. The latest, “As states reopen, here’s how you protect yourself from the coming surge.”
As we wrap up this show, I wanted to send good wishes out to a woman who’s changed everything. A very happy, meaningful, landmark birthday to Naomi Klein. Happy Birthday, Naomi!
Democracy Now! is working with as few people as possible on site. The majority of our amazing team is working from home. I’m Amy Goodman. Thanks for joining us.


democracynow--2020-05-08--"A Terrible Price": Mardi Gras Story Lays Bare How COVID-19 Is Devastating Black America

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
We turn now to look at the deadly disparate impact of the pandemic on African Americans as told through an in-depth story for The New York Times Magazine about what happened to the Zulu club , a Black social organization in New Orleans , during Mardi Gras .
Usually the experience is a joy .
The coronavirus made it a tragedy .
As reporter @ @ @ @ @ @ @ When the Krewe of Zulu parade rolled out onto Jackson Avenue to kick off Mardi Gras festivities on Feb. 25 , the party started for black New Orleans .
Tens of thousands of people lined the four-and-a-half-mile route , reveling in the animated succession of jazz musicians , high-stepping marching bands from historically black colleges and universities and loose-limbed dancers dressed in Zulu costumes , complete with grass skirts and blackface makeup , an homage to the Zulu people of South Africa and , for some , a satirical spit in the eye @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was put on by clubs of white men who barred black people from taking part , ” Villarosa writes .
Linda Villarosa reports that at the same time the Mardi Gras festivities brought over a million visitors from around the world to New Orleans , the Trump administration was repeatedly downplaying the risk of COVID-19 , even as the president was being warned by advisers about the potential of half a million deaths and an economic meltdown .
Members of the Zulu club paid a terrible price .
A recent study shows African @ @ @ @ @ @ @ population , but counties with higher Black populations account for more than half of all COVID-19 cases and almost 60 % of deaths .
For more , Linda Villarosa joins us .
She directs the journalism program at City College of New York and contributing writer for The New York Times Magazine , where her recent cover story appeared , “ ' A Terrible Price ' : The Deadly Racial Disparities of Covid-19 in America.
” Welcome back to Democracy Now !
, Linda .
An amazing piece .
Take us back to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
LINDA VILLAROSA : Well , thank you for having me again .
It ’ s nice to hear you and see you .
Well , that was — first of all , Carnival begins in early January in New Orleans .
And so there had been a whole bunch of very large-scale events and activities , parties , leading up to the Mardi Gras Day parade on the 25th .
And that was where so many people gathered along the streets .
And the Zulu club is known for throwing golden-painted coconuts @ @ @ @ @ @ @ prize that people want to catch .
So , everyone was standing shoulder to shoulder , you know , arm in arm almost , trying to catch the coconuts and seeing — standing on the sidelines , being part of the parade .
So it was — AMY GOODMAN : You ’ re freezing a bit .
I think you ’ re going to come back in just one second .
We ’ re speaking with Linda Villarosa , who wrote this amazing New York Times Magazine cover story called “ ' A @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are you back with us ?
This is the price we pay , by the way , one of the smaller prices , but in this pandemic , people are , in order to ensure and stop community spread , reporting to us from home .
We ’ re going to turn right now back to Linda .
Linda , continue to tell us your story .
LINDA VILLAROSA : So , people were standing shoulder to shoulder , arm in arm , along the parade route , as well as taking part @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , because it was so crowded — and it was a joyful time and a wonderful time .
My daughter was there , and she was telling me about it .
It became a coronavirus hothouse , just because no one knew what was brewing .
AMY GOODMAN : So , then talk about what happened .
What were the warnings at the time in New Orleans ?
And tell us then what unfolded .
LINDA VILLAROSA : So , behind the scenes at the Louisiana Department of Health , and even the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ worry , but they were looking to the federal government for direction .
So , no one at the time knew that it was bad enough to cancel the parade or cancel any of the festivities .
And also , they were more worried about people bringing it in , you know , visitors coming in , not what was actually happening .
So , now , looking back , we realize that coronavirus was already there .
But it was just the people on the ground didn ’ t know , especially @ @ @ @ @ @ @ who were taking direction from all the levels of government , but who were taking direction from the federal government .
AMY GOODMAN : And so , what transpired after that ?
Just tell us the Zulu club ’ s story .
LINDA VILLAROSA : So , what happened was , with the Zulu club men , it ’ s 800 mostly African American men who are from all walks of life .
And they do this club all year round , but the Carnival , the Mardi Gras season , is the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ know , what they ’ re doing , their parties and their festivals .
So , they were — after the 25th of February , some of them started getting ill. And they were communicating with each other .
You know , it ’ s a close-knit group .
Sometimes they were learning about each other on Facebook , who was getting ill , and also they were communicating with each other .
So , when I started reporting the piece in early April , six men had died , and another 30 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
And by the time I finished , two more had died , and 30 had been infected .
AMY GOODMAN : So the overall number , by the time you finish the story , of people in the Zulu club who died as a result of COVID-19 , that started with them just not being told at the time of the true dangers of COVID-19 and the threat in New Orleans .
LINDA VILLAROSA : Exactly .
So , it was — when I started , it was six men had died @ @ @ @ @ @ @ When I finished , two more had died — a total of eight — and 30 had been infected .
And that ’ s the ones that they knew about , with the 30 .
And the organizers of the Zulu club think it ’ s more .
AMY GOODMAN : And so , then , Linda Villarosa , talk about the messages of the Trump administration , why what the president says matters .
At the time when all of this started , he was in India poo-pooing what was happening in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ t a problem .
But if you could then talk about the racial disparities ?
This is an issue you focus on in so many cases .
The last time we had you on , it was the racial disparities in the death of women who give birth , and the problem with African American women who die in childbirth or after childbirth .
But if you can talk about this issue that has become so significant in this country now in the pandemic ?
LINDA VILLAROSA : So , even as @ @ @ @ @ @ @ behind the scenes there were organizations , including the American Medical Association , the American Academy of Pediatrics , the NAACP , different lawyers ’ groups , and even politicians , were knowing that these racial disparities that exist in the United States that make Black people more vulnerable to serious illnesses — and other people of color — existed and were going to intersect with COVID in the worst kind of way .
And so , Black people are more likely to have the kinds of underlying conditions that make COVID more @ @ @ @ @ @ @ fact .
And so , when COVID came , it was what some people have called the perfect storm of terribleness , with people already with underlying conditions being hit with this really serious , confusing virus .
AMY GOODMAN : And can you talk about the distrust that African Americans have of the healthcare system , and the historical context for that ?
LINDA VILLAROSA : So , we ’ ve known for , I mean , centuries , decades , years , that Black people and other people of color are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
And how I think of it is , I don ’ t think doctors and other healthcare providers go into medicine in order to do harm , but it happens because of mostly unconscious bias .
And so , it ’ s been very well documented that Black people and other people of color , but specifically Black people , have unfair treatment , whether it ’ s in pain management , whether it ’ s — and it ’ s in the emergency room .
It ’ s when getting C-sections @ @ @ @ @ @ @ kinds of different treatments where Black people just aren ’ t treated well .
So , if there ’ s a distrust among Black people of the healthcare system , it ’ s real , and it ’ s evidence-based that there is a problem , that people should be distrustful .
And — AMY GOODMAN : Speaking of history , I wanted to go to Nikole Hannah-Jones , who just won a Pulitzer Prize for her lead essay for The New York Times ’ 1619 Project .
She spoke to MTV last @ @ @ @ @ @ @ deaths .
AMY GOODMAN : That was Nikole Hannah-Jones .
Linda Villarosa , you were a contributor to the acclaimed 1619 Project with an essay titled “ Myths about physical racial differences were used to justify slavery — and are still believed by doctors today.
” As we wrap up , if you could comment on the significance of The 1619 Project , that you were a part of , and also not only the Pulitzer going to Nikole Hannah-Jones , but to Ida B .
Wells , as well , in a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and courageous reporting on the horrific and vicious violence against African Americans during the era of lynching ?
If you can take us full circle ?
LINDA VILLAROSA : Well , first of all , we are so proud of Nikole , and I was honored to be part of that project .
And I think that it speaks to the power of Black women journalists , Nikole and Ida B .
Wells , and I ’ m really proud to be a part of that group .
I think that what 1619 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ us back and look at the legacy of enslavement .
And , you know , there ’ s always people saying , “ Oh , slavery was so long ago .
That ’ s not part of our experience.
” But it is .
And our charge was to prove that what happened during enslavement still lingers today .
AMY GOODMAN : Linda Villarosa , I want to thank you for being with us .
She directs the journalism program at City College of New York , contributing writer for The New York @ @ @ @ @ @ @ link to your piece , that cover story of The New York Times Magazine , “ ' A Terrible Price ' : The Deadly Racial Disparities of Covid-19 in America.
” And we ’ ll also link to The 1619 Project .
This is Democracy Now !
When we come back , Dr. Leana Wen joins us , the former health commissioner of Baltimore , an emergency room doctor , who just gave birth .
She ’ ll talk about , well , while President Trump gets tested every day at the White @ @ @ @ @ @ @ regular testing throughout the country .
Stay with us .
AMY GOODMAN : “ Mío ” by the Puerto Rican band Buscabulla .
The song is about the corporations that use the island as an unsustainable tax haven .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman. We turn now to look at the deadly disparate impact of the pandemic on African Americans as told through an in-depth story for The New York Times Magazine about what happened to the Zulu club, a Black social organization in New Orleans, during Mardi Gras. Usually the experience is a joy. The coronavirus made it a tragedy.
As reporter Linda Villarosa writes, quote, “When the Krewe of Zulu parade rolled out onto Jackson Avenue to kick off Mardi Gras festivities on Feb. 25, the party started for black New Orleans. Tens of thousands of people lined the four-and-a-half-mile route, reveling in the animated succession of jazz musicians, high-stepping marching bands from historically black colleges and universities and loose-limbed dancers dressed in Zulu costumes, complete with grass skirts and blackface makeup, an homage to the Zulu people of South Africa and, for some, a satirical spit in the eye to the past, when Mardi Gras was put on by clubs of white men who barred black people from taking part,” Villarosa writes.
Linda Villarosa reports that at the same time the Mardi Gras festivities brought over a million visitors from around the world to New Orleans, the Trump administration was repeatedly downplaying the risk of COVID-19, even as the president was being warned by advisers about the potential of half a million deaths and an economic meltdown. Members of the Zulu club paid a terrible price.
A recent study shows African Americans represent 13% of the U.S. population, but counties with higher Black populations account for more than half of all COVID-19 cases and almost 60% of deaths.
For more, Linda Villarosa joins us. She directs the journalism program at City College of New York and contributing writer for The New York Times Magazine, where her recent cover story appeared, “'A Terrible Price': The Deadly Racial Disparities of Covid-19 in America.”
Welcome back to Democracy Now!, Linda. An amazing piece. Take us back to that day where the Zulu club gathered.
LINDA VILLAROSA: Well, thank you for having me again. It’s nice to hear you and see you.
Well, that was — first of all, Carnival begins in early January in New Orleans. And so there had been a whole bunch of very large-scale events and activities, parties, leading up to the Mardi Gras Day parade on the 25th. And that was where so many people gathered along the streets. And the Zulu club is known for throwing golden-painted coconuts out, and that’s the prize that people want to catch. So, everyone was standing shoulder to shoulder, you know, arm in arm almost, trying to catch the coconuts and seeing — standing on the sidelines, being part of the parade. So it was —
AMY GOODMAN: You’re freezing a bit. I think you’re going to come back in just one second. We’re speaking with Linda Villarosa, who wrote this amazing New York Times Magazine cover story called “'A Terrible Price.'”
Linda, are you back with us? This is the price we pay, by the way, one of the smaller prices, but in this pandemic, people are, in order to ensure and stop community spread, reporting to us from home. We’re going to turn right now back to Linda. Linda, continue to tell us your story.
LINDA VILLAROSA: So, people were standing shoulder to shoulder, arm in arm, along the parade route, as well as taking part in the parade. So it became, because it was so crowded — and it was a joyful time and a wonderful time. My daughter was there, and she was telling me about it. It became a coronavirus hothouse, just because no one knew what was brewing.
AMY GOODMAN: So, then talk about what happened. What were the warnings at the time in New Orleans? And tell us then what unfolded.
LINDA VILLAROSA: So, behind the scenes at the Louisiana Department of Health, and even the local Department of Health, there was worry, but they were looking to the federal government for direction. So, no one at the time knew that it was bad enough to cancel the parade or cancel any of the festivities. And also, they were more worried about people bringing it in, you know, visitors coming in, not what was actually happening.
So, now, looking back, we realize that coronavirus was already there. But it was just the people on the ground didn’t know, especially the people from the Zulu club, who were taking direction from all the levels of government, but who were taking direction from the federal government.
AMY GOODMAN: And so, what transpired after that? Just tell us the Zulu club’s story.
LINDA VILLAROSA: So, what happened was, with the Zulu club men, it’s 800 mostly African American men who are from all walks of life. And they do this club all year round, but the Carnival, the Mardi Gras season, is the height of their fun and, you know, what they’re doing, their parties and their festivals. So, they were — after the 25th of February, some of them started getting ill. And they were communicating with each other. You know, it’s a close-knit group. Sometimes they were learning about each other on Facebook, who was getting ill, and also they were communicating with each other.
So, when I started reporting the piece in early April, six men had died, and another 30 — 20 had been infected with COVID. And by the time I finished, two more had died, and 30 had been infected.
AMY GOODMAN: So the overall number, by the time you finish the story, of people in the Zulu club who died as a result of COVID-19, that started with them just not being told at the time of the true dangers of COVID-19 and the threat in New Orleans.
LINDA VILLAROSA: Exactly. So, it was — when I started, it was six men had died, and 20 had been infected. When I finished, two more had died — a total of eight — and 30 had been infected. And that’s the ones that they knew about, with the 30. And the organizers of the Zulu club think it’s more.
AMY GOODMAN: And so, then, Linda Villarosa, talk about the messages of the Trump administration, why what the president says matters. At the time when all of this started, he was in India poo-pooing what was happening in the United States, saying it wasn’t a problem. But if you could then talk about the racial disparities? This is an issue you focus on in so many cases. The last time we had you on, it was the racial disparities in the death of women who give birth, and the problem with African American women who die in childbirth or after childbirth. But if you can talk about this issue that has become so significant in this country now in the pandemic?
LINDA VILLAROSA: So, even as the federal government was downplaying COVID, behind the scenes there were organizations, including the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the NAACP, different lawyers’ groups, and even politicians, were knowing that these racial disparities that exist in the United States that make Black people more vulnerable to serious illnesses — and other people of color — existed and were going to intersect with COVID in the worst kind of way. And so, Black people are more likely to have the kinds of underlying conditions that make COVID more serious. And that just is a fact. And so, when COVID came, it was what some people have called the perfect storm of terribleness, with people already with underlying conditions being hit with this really serious, confusing virus.
AMY GOODMAN: And can you talk about the distrust that African Americans have of the healthcare system, and the historical context for that?
LINDA VILLAROSA: So, we’ve known for, I mean, centuries, decades, years, that Black people and other people of color are treated unfairly in our current medical system. And how I think of it is, I don’t think doctors and other healthcare providers go into medicine in order to do harm, but it happens because of mostly unconscious bias.
And so, it’s been very well documented that Black people and other people of color, but specifically Black people, have unfair treatment, whether it’s in pain management, whether it’s — and it’s in the emergency room. It’s when getting C-sections during birth. It’s all kinds of different treatments where Black people just aren’t treated well. So, if there’s a distrust among Black people of the healthcare system, it’s real, and it’s evidence-based that there is a problem, that people should be distrustful. And —
AMY GOODMAN: Speaking of history, I wanted to go to Nikole Hannah-Jones, who just won a Pulitzer Prize for her lead essay for The New York Times’ 1619 Project. She spoke to MTV last month about the racial disparities in COVID-related deaths.
NIKOLE HANNAH-JONES: What we’re starting to see as we learn that Black people are disproportionately dying from this is this blaming of Black communities and saying that, “Well, that’s just because Black people don’t take care of themselves. Black people don’t take care of their health.”
The truth is that Black people are living in a constructed environment that is designed to actually produce exactly the disparities that we see. It is not accidental that Black people are the most likely to live near toxic sites, the most likely to live in polluted neighborhoods, the most likely to live in areas where there is a lot of highway and freeway traffic. And so, what that means is Black people have been intentionally placed in the most vulnerable positions.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Nikole Hannah-Jones. Linda Villarosa, you were a contributor to the acclaimed 1619 Project with an essay titled “Myths about physical racial differences were used to justify slavery — and are still believed by doctors today.” As we wrap up, if you could comment on the significance of The 1619 Project, that you were a part of, and also not only the Pulitzer going to Nikole Hannah-Jones, but to Ida B. Wells, as well, in a special citation and award for her outstanding and courageous reporting on the horrific and vicious violence against African Americans during the era of lynching? If you can take us full circle?
LINDA VILLAROSA: Well, first of all, we are so proud of Nikole, and I was honored to be part of that project. And I think that it speaks to the power of Black women journalists, Nikole and Ida B. Wells, and I’m really proud to be a part of that group. I think that what 1619 did, the project, was take us back and look at the legacy of enslavement. And, you know, there’s always people saying, “Oh, slavery was so long ago. That’s not part of our experience.” But it is. And our charge was to prove that what happened during enslavement still lingers today.
AMY GOODMAN: Linda Villarosa, I want to thank you for being with us. She directs the journalism program at City College of New York, contributing writer for The New York Times. We’re going to link to your piece, that cover story of The New York Times Magazine, “'A Terrible Price': The Deadly Racial Disparities of Covid-19 in America.” And we’ll also link to The 1619 Project.
This is Democracy Now! When we come back, Dr. Leana Wen joins us, the former health commissioner of Baltimore, an emergency room doctor, who just gave birth. She’ll talk about, well, while President Trump gets tested every day at the White House, he downplays the need for regular testing throughout the country. Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: “Mío” by the Puerto Rican band Buscabulla. The song is about the corporations that use the island as an unsustainable tax haven.