democracynow--2020-10-09--FBI Foils Right-Wing Plot to Kidnap Michigan Gov. Months After Trump Urged "Liberation" of State

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : Authorities in Michigan have arrested 13 men with ties to illegal right-wing militias , including six men who allegedly plotted to kidnap and take hostage the governor of Michigan , Democrat Gretchen Whitmer .
U.S. Attorney Andrew Birge announced the charges on Thursday .
AMY GOODMAN : The men are accused of planning to take Governor Whitmer hostage , then bring her to Wisconsin , where they planned to put her on what has been described as a “ trial ” prior @ @ @ @ @ @ @ linked to a group called the Wolverine Watchmen face state terrorism , conspiracy and weapons charges for plotting to storm the state Capitol in Lansing , Michigan , with the intent of starting a civil war .
Governor Whitmer has been the target of numerous protests during the COVID-19 pandemic for using her executive power to issue new public health rules to limit the spread of coronavirus .
Governor Whitmer blamed President Trump for instigating the violent plots .
In April , Trump sent a tweet reading ” LIBERATE MICHIGAN !
” AMY @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Governor Whitmer yesterday and today on Twitter .
We ’ re joined right now by two guests : Michigan state Representative Kyra Harris Bolden and Russ McNamara , a reporter at WDET , Detroit ’ s NPR affiliate .
Russ , let ’ s begin with you .
Can you just lay out this , what to many across this country was a shocking announcement yesterday ?
RUSS McNAMARA : Yeah , it came as a surprise to many , but not necessarily here in Michigan , because the state has a long @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Part of the Oklahoma City bombing plot was started here in Michigan .
And so , we go back to the mid- ’ 90s , and it kind of started there .
It faded away during the Obama era .
And then , after President Obama was elected , we see the rise again of these white nationalists and militia groups .
So , the guys that were arrested the other night , they got together online in various groups , Facebook groups , and that caught the attention of the FBI @ @ @ @ @ @ @ plotting started to involve the attack on law enforcement , somebody got cold feet and became an informant to the FBI , and that gave them a better idea of what was going on .
These guys are amateurs , essentially , but some had explosive training and knew how to make a bomb with shrapnel , that actually tested it out .
And they had tested out and figured out which bridge they wanted to blow up to help in the kidnap of Governor Whitmer .
So , it was fairly along @ @ @ @ @ @ @ were set to go and take — go through with their plot right before the election and kidnap Governor Whitmer .
AMY GOODMAN : So , when you talk about blowing up a bridge , explain what we ’ re talking about here , to prevent authorities to come to the aid of Governor Whitmer , who they also had talked about lynching .
RUSS McNAMARA : Yes , they had — you know , the misogynistic undertones have been there all along .
That includes in the protests back in April and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of Nazi imagery , when it comes to Governor Whitmer .
So that was always there .
They wanted to draw law enforcement away from the governor in one plot .
They wanted a direct assault on the Capitol building itself in another of the two plots .
AMY GOODMAN : And talk about the weapons that they were charged with using — for example , an IED .
RUSS McNAMARA : Yeah , they did have explosives .
They wanted to cause as much havoc as possible , in part to draw @ @ @ @ @ @ @ kidnapping the governor , but also in causing death and destruction .
You don ’ t , you know , set up a bomb to blow up and make it anti-personnel , and not try to take out and kill people .
AMY GOODMAN : Kyra Harris Bolden , you ’ re a Democratic Michigan state representative .
A number of these men who were charged yesterday with terrorism were actually at your workplace — right ?
— earlier , months ago , as they were taking over the Michigan Legislature .
Where @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the scene that ultimately President Trump would endorse ?
REP. KYRA HARRIS BOLDEN : Yes .
So , thank you for having me this morning to talk about this very important topic .
It ’ s very important to note that this could have been prevented .
The Michigan House Democrats have been sounding the alarm since Operation Gridlock , that happened in mid-April .
And there was actually an Operation Judgment Day , of which they actually canceled session because they — I don ’ t know — perhaps didn ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ The actual day that we were there , where the Capitol was stormed by domestic terrorists , we know now , it was surreal .
Our offices are actually across the street from the Capitol , and from my office I could see Confederate flags .
I could see Nazi swastika paraphernalia .
There were signs that say , “ Tyrant , get the noose , ” in reference to our governor , Gretchen Whitmer .
There was actually a truck with a noose hanging off of the back , a life-size noose @ @ @ @ @ @ @ t take much to know that these threats had nothing to do with the governor ’ s so-called lockdown or “ stay home , stay safe ” orders .
This was a very dangerous situation that we were entering .
And I will also share with you something that many people probably don ’ t know : They were actually not allowed in the Capitol until minutes before we were called to vote .
So , there — AMY GOODMAN : And explain when this was .
REP. KYRA HARRIS BOLDEN : Yeah @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and so kind of the height of the “ stay home , stay safe ” orders .
And obviously there was a lot of angst .
There were a lot of businesses closed .
But , you know , I think it was just also kind of used as an excuse to rally .
We also saw a lot of Trump flags , which seemed out of place for a rally against “ stay home , stay safe ” orders .
But this happened in mid-April at the height of COVID .
So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ visitors were not allowed in the Capitol building until minutes before we were called in to vote .
And so it was a purposeful action that we would have to be confronted with the same people that were armed , that had Nazi paraphernalia , that had nooses , that had Confederate flags .
And fortunately , our gallery was closed , but the Senate ’ s wasn ’ t .
And you may have seen a picture going around the internet where it was actually confirmed that two of the men arrested @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Senate chamber .
And that picture was taken by Senator Polehanki .
Some of the senators actually have bulletproof vests because of this situation .
It was not safe .
And I will also note , it was during the height of COVID , and many of these people were not wearing masks .
And they were crowded in our state House .
And so , that added an extra layer of kind of terror for us .
We ’ re dealing with a global pandemic , and we ’ re dealing with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ terrorists .
AMY GOODMAN : So , in April , that ’ s when President Trump , the time you ’ re describing now , tweeted , ” LIBERATE MICHIGAN !
” AMY GOODMAN : And then , in May , he wrote , “ These are very good people.
” I want to go to Washington Congressmember Pramila Jayapal , who was questioning Attorney General William Barr during a House Judiciary Committee hearing in July about the threats to Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer .
It was a contentious exchange .
Jayapal noted @ @ @ @ @ @ @ response to Black Lives Matter protesters and armed white militia members who displayed white nationalist symbols and threatened Michigan ’ s governor .
AMY GOODMAN : So , that ’ s Congressmember Pramila Jayapal questioning Attorney General William Barr .
Remember , the attorney general is in charge of the Justice Department .
It ’ s the FBI , the U.S. attorney and state officials who have now charged 13 men with various domestic terrorism charges .
I want to go back to Russ McNamara and talk about the groups that are involved @ @ @ @ @ @ @ group of individuals .
We ’ re talking about “ boogaloo , ” and we ’ re talking about — well , tell us about this group called the Wolverines , the — RUSS McNAMARA : Yeah , and they ’ re just part of one of the many groups that have popped up over the last decade or so .
Even over the weekend , a man involved in the anti-government “ boogaloo ” movement , Eric Allport , was shot and killed by federal agents in a parking lot of a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Robert Snell , the great Detroit news reporter here , figured out that he played a small role in the disastrous Ruby Ridge standoff .
But he was still active within the militia and anti-government movement .
So , we ’ ve seen all of these individual groups pop up over the last decade , partially fueled because it ’ s easier to get together via social media .
So , whether or not it ’ s a private Facebook group or an online forum , these guys are getting together .
But @ @ @ @ @ @ @ their trail in social media , they are a collective , but they ’ re fairly well fractured , and they have their own ideals and ideology .
And they ’ ve got piecemeal equipment .
Their tactical gear is not anything that you would consider professional , but their firearms , for the most part , are .
AMY GOODMAN : So , they may be a sort of unusual , amateurish group , who ’ s training heavily and apparently were going to take these guys to Wisconsin — meaning the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ trial .
But the attorney general of Michigan talked about this just being the tip of the iceberg .
And , Democratic Michigan state Representative Kyra Harris Bolden , that ’ s where I want to ask you about Trump ’ s lack of response here , William Barr ’ s lack of response here .
And what is the response of the Republican state legislators now for the arrest of these groups ?
Because the attorney general of Michigan said this might just be the tip of the iceberg , with more @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of these gangs , who might be preparing for Election Day .
REP. KYRA HARRIS BOLDEN : Well , I will share with you that just yesterday there was a rally on the steps of the Capitol , where you could see Trump flags .
There wasn ’ t the same kind of Nazi paraphernalia and Confederate flags , but this is on the heels of the news breaking about the kidnap and murder plot against the governor .
And there is a kind of similar rally .
And I will say that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , said to — spoke at this rally and said that this is no time to be weak in commitment to freedom .
That was his words to this group that had gathered .
Nothing about the kidnap and murder plot about the governor .
Now , we did see a couple of Republicans speak out and , you know , say that they are glad that the governor is safe , and there ’ s no place for this in the state .
But again , this could have been prevented .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Capitol .
That has been — we ’ ve been sounding the alarm as Michigan House Democrats since way before this situation has happened , and to no avail .
I ’ ve read reports that some of my Republican colleagues have said , “ If there is a law that would have prevented this from happening , let me know.
” We can simply limit or not allow guns in our Capitol , and that would make a huge difference .
But to suggest that there ’ s nothing that can @ @ @ @ @ @ @ incorrect .
AMY GOODMAN : Well , you have President Trump not endorsing these indictments yesterday , but calling for the jailing of his political opponent , Joe Biden , as well as the former president of the United States , Barack Obama .
He was doing this yesterday , speaking on Fox .
And I ’ m wondering , as an African American representative in Michigan , Kyra Harris Bolden , are you getting more security right now ?
How much security is now surrounding the Michigan governor ?
REP. KYRA HARRIS @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has always had her detail .
And I want to take the time to thank the FBI and the police that thwarted this plan .
Individual legislators do not get protection .
And as I stated before , our offices are actually across the street from the Capitol .
There ’ s no secret entrance .
And so , we typically have to walk through whatever rally , protest , demonstration is on the Capitol lawn .
And I will say that as a Black woman , walking past that event that day @ @ @ @ @ @ @ now that we know — domestic terrorists , and going in the back door of my place of work was incredibly demeaning .
To see Confederate flags and nooses , as the great-granddaughter of a man that was lynched , it honestly brought me to tears .
To see the point that we have gotten to is truly heartbreaking .
And I hope that instead of just words , we actually take action to make sure that something like this doesn ’ t actually happen and that we don ’ t carry and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to thank you so much for being with us , Democratic Michigan state Representative Kyra Harris Bolden and Russ McNamara , a reporter at WDET in Detroit .
Of course , we ’ ll continue to follow these issues .
And again , President Trump , even as these indictments came down , continued to attack Governor Whitmer repeatedly yesterday and continues that attack today .
Shortly before we broadcast this morning , this year ’ s Nobel Peace Prize was announced .
We ’ re going @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Authorities in Michigan have arrested 13 men with ties to illegal right-wing militias, including six men who allegedly plotted to kidnap and take hostage the governor of Michigan, Democrat Gretchen Whitmer. U.S. Attorney Andrew Birge announced the charges on Thursday.
ANDREW BIRGE: The FBI and Michigan State Police arrested six individuals charged in a federal complaint with conspiring to kidnap the governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer. According to the complaint unsealed this morning, Adam Fox, Barry Croft, Ty Garbin, Kaleb Franks, Daniel Harris and Brandon Caserta conspired to kidnap the governor from her vacation home in the Western District of Michigan before the November election.
AMY GOODMAN: The men are accused of planning to take Governor Whitmer hostage, then bring her to Wisconsin, where they planned to put her on what has been described as a “trial” prior to Election Day. Seven other men linked to a group called the Wolverine Watchmen face state terrorism, conspiracy and weapons charges for plotting to storm the state Capitol in Lansing, Michigan, with the intent of starting a civil war.
Governor Whitmer has been the target of numerous protests during the COVID-19 pandemic for using her executive power to issue new public health rules to limit the spread of coronavirus.
Governor Whitmer blamed President Trump for instigating the violent plots. In April, Trump sent a tweet reading ”LIBERATE MICHIGAN!”
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER: Just last week, the president of the United States stood before the American people and refused to condemn white supremacists and hate groups, like these two Michigan militia groups. “Stand back and stand by,” he told them. “Stand back and stand by.” Hate groups heard the president’s words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry, as a call to action. When our leaders speak, their words matter. They carry weight. When our leaders meet with, encourage or fraternize with domestic terrorists, they legitimize their actions, and they are complicit. When they stoke and contribute to hate speech, they are complicit.
AMY GOODMAN: President Trump responded by attacking Governor Whitmer yesterday and today on Twitter.
We’re joined right now by two guests: Michigan state Representative Kyra Harris Bolden and Russ McNamara, a reporter at WDET, Detroit’s NPR affiliate.
Russ, let’s begin with you. Can you just lay out this, what to many across this country was a shocking announcement yesterday?
RUSS McNAMARA: Yeah, it came as a surprise to many, but not necessarily here in Michigan, because the state has a long history of militia and white nationalist ties. Part of the Oklahoma City bombing plot was started here in Michigan. And so, we go back to the mid-’90s, and it kind of started there. It faded away during the Obama era. And then, after President Obama was elected, we see the rise again of these white nationalists and militia groups.
So, the guys that were arrested the other night, they got together online in various groups, Facebook groups, and that caught the attention of the FBI. Plus, when some of the plotting started to involve the attack on law enforcement, somebody got cold feet and became an informant to the FBI, and that gave them a better idea of what was going on.
These guys are amateurs, essentially, but some had explosive training and knew how to make a bomb with shrapnel, that actually tested it out. And they had tested out and figured out which bridge they wanted to blow up to help in the kidnap of Governor Whitmer. So, it was fairly along in the planning stages, and they were set to go and take — go through with their plot right before the election and kidnap Governor Whitmer.
AMY GOODMAN: So, when you talk about blowing up a bridge, explain what we’re talking about here, to prevent authorities to come to the aid of Governor Whitmer, who they also had talked about lynching.
RUSS McNAMARA: Yes, they had — you know, the misogynistic undertones have been there all along. That includes in the protests back in April and May, lots of nooses, lots of Nazi imagery, when it comes to Governor Whitmer. So that was always there. They wanted to draw law enforcement away from the governor in one plot. They wanted a direct assault on the Capitol building itself in another of the two plots.
AMY GOODMAN: And talk about the weapons that they were charged with using — for example, an IED.
RUSS McNAMARA: Yeah, they did have explosives. They wanted to cause as much havoc as possible, in part to draw away attention from their overall goal of kidnapping the governor, but also in causing death and destruction. You don’t, you know, set up a bomb to blow up and make it anti-personnel, and not try to take out and kill people.
AMY GOODMAN: Kyra Harris Bolden, you’re a Democratic Michigan state representative. A number of these men who were charged yesterday with terrorism were actually at your workplace — right? — earlier, months ago, as they were taking over the Michigan Legislature. Where were you? And can you describe the scene that ultimately President Trump would endorse?
REP. KYRA HARRIS BOLDEN: Yes. So, thank you for having me this morning to talk about this very important topic.
It’s very important to note that this could have been prevented. The Michigan House Democrats have been sounding the alarm since Operation Gridlock, that happened in mid-April. And there was actually an Operation Judgment Day, of which they actually canceled session because they — I don’t know — perhaps didn’t know what was going to happen.
The actual day that we were there, where the Capitol was stormed by domestic terrorists, we know now, it was surreal. Our offices are actually across the street from the Capitol, and from my office I could see Confederate flags. I could see Nazi swastika paraphernalia. There were signs that say, “Tyrant, get the noose,” in reference to our governor, Gretchen Whitmer. There was actually a truck with a noose hanging off of the back, a life-size noose.
And so, it didn’t take much to know that these threats had nothing to do with the governor’s so-called lockdown or “stay home, stay safe” orders. This was a very dangerous situation that we were entering. And I will also share with you something that many people probably don’t know: They were actually not allowed in the Capitol until minutes before we were called to vote. So, there —
AMY GOODMAN: And explain when this was.
REP. KYRA HARRIS BOLDEN: Yeah, so, this was mid-April, and so kind of the height of the “stay home, stay safe” orders. And obviously there was a lot of angst. There were a lot of businesses closed. But, you know, I think it was just also kind of used as an excuse to rally. We also saw a lot of Trump flags, which seemed out of place for a rally against “stay home, stay safe” orders. But this happened in mid-April at the height of COVID.
So, we were not — or, visitors were not allowed in the Capitol building until minutes before we were called in to vote. And so it was a purposeful action that we would have to be confronted with the same people that were armed, that had Nazi paraphernalia, that had nooses, that had Confederate flags. And fortunately, our gallery was closed, but the Senate’s wasn’t. And you may have seen a picture going around the internet where it was actually confirmed that two of the men arrested had previously been standing armed above the Senate chamber. And that picture was taken by Senator Polehanki.
Some of the senators actually have bulletproof vests because of this situation. It was not safe. And I will also note, it was during the height of COVID, and many of these people were not wearing masks. And they were crowded in our state House. And so, that added an extra layer of kind of terror for us. We’re dealing with a global pandemic, and we’re dealing with what we know now to be domestic terrorists.
AMY GOODMAN: So, in April, that’s when President Trump, the time you’re describing now, tweeted, ”LIBERATE MICHIGAN!”
REP. KYRA HARRIS BOLDEN: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: And then, in May, he wrote, “These are very good people.” I want to go to Washington Congressmember Pramila Jayapal, who was questioning Attorney General William Barr during a House Judiciary Committee hearing in July about the threats to Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer. It was a contentious exchange. Jayapal noted the discrepancy between Barr’s militarized response to Black Lives Matter protesters and armed white militia members who displayed white nationalist symbols and threatened Michigan’s governor.
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL: On two separate occasions, after President Trump tweeted ”LIBERATE MICHIGAN!” to subvert stay-home orders to protect the public health of people in Michigan, protesters swarmed the Michigan Capitol carrying guns, some with swastikas, Confederate flags, and one even with a dark-haired doll with a noose around its neck. Are you aware that these protesters called for the governor to be lynched, shot and beheaded?
ATTORNEY GENERAL WILLIAM BARR: No.
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL: You’re not aware of that?
ATTORNEY GENERAL WILLIAM BARR: I was not aware.
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL: Major protests in Michigan. You’re the attorney general, and you didn’t know that the protesters called for the governor to be lynched, shot and beheaded.
ATTORNEY GENERAL WILLIAM BARR: Well —
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL: So, obviously, you couldn’t be concerned about that. You didn’t —
ATTORNEY GENERAL WILLIAM BARR: Well, there are a lot of protests around the United States. And on June 1st, I was worried about the District of Columbia, which is federal.
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL: Attorney General Barr, you seem to be engaging in protests in certain parts of the country. You’re very aware of those. But when protesters with guns and swastikas —
ATTORNEY GENERAL WILLIAM BARR: I’m very — I am aware of protesters in the federal government.
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL: — and Confederate flags — excuse me, Mr. Barr, this is my time, and I control it. You are aware of certain kinds of protesters, but in Michigan, when protesters carry guns and Confederate flags and swastikas and call for the governor of Michigan to be beheaded and shot and lynched, somehow you’re not aware of that.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s Congressmember Pramila Jayapal questioning Attorney General William Barr. Remember, the attorney general is in charge of the Justice Department. It’s the FBI, the U.S. attorney and state officials who have now charged 13 men with various domestic terrorism charges. I want to go back to Russ McNamara and talk about the groups that are involved. This is not just a disparate group of individuals. We’re talking about “boogaloo,” and we’re talking about — well, tell us about this group called the Wolverines, the —
RUSS McNAMARA: Yeah, the Wolverine Watchmen.
AMY GOODMAN: The Wolverine Watchmen.
RUSS McNAMARA: Yeah, and they’re just part of one of the many groups that have popped up over the last decade or so. Even over the weekend, a man involved in the anti-government “boogaloo” movement, Eric Allport, was shot and killed by federal agents in a parking lot of a suburban Detroit restaurant following a shootout. Robert Snell, the great Detroit news reporter here, figured out that he played a small role in the disastrous Ruby Ridge standoff. But he was still active within the militia and anti-government movement.
So, we’ve seen all of these individual groups pop up over the last decade, partially fueled because it’s easier to get together via social media. So, whether or not it’s a private Facebook group or an online forum, these guys are getting together. But if you look at these guys and their trail in social media, they are a collective, but they’re fairly well fractured, and they have their own ideals and ideology. And they’ve got piecemeal equipment. Their tactical gear is not anything that you would consider professional, but their firearms, for the most part, are.
AMY GOODMAN: So, they may be a sort of unusual, amateurish group, who’s training heavily and apparently were going to take these guys to Wisconsin — meaning the governor, to Wisconsin, to stand trial. But the attorney general of Michigan talked about this just being the tip of the iceberg. And, Democratic Michigan state Representative Kyra Harris Bolden, that’s where I want to ask you about Trump’s lack of response here, William Barr’s lack of response here. And what is the response of the Republican state legislators now for the arrest of these groups? Because the attorney general of Michigan said this might just be the tip of the iceberg, with more heavily armed, organized men, part of these gangs, who might be preparing for Election Day.
REP. KYRA HARRIS BOLDEN: Well, I will share with you that just yesterday there was a rally on the steps of the Capitol, where you could see Trump flags. There wasn’t the same kind of Nazi paraphernalia and Confederate flags, but this is on the heels of the news breaking about the kidnap and murder plot against the governor. And there is a kind of similar rally.
And I will say that the Senate majority leader, Mike Shirkey, said to — spoke at this rally and said that this is no time to be weak in commitment to freedom. That was his words to this group that had gathered. Nothing about the kidnap and murder plot about the governor.
Now, we did see a couple of Republicans speak out and, you know, say that they are glad that the governor is safe, and there’s no place for this in the state.
But again, this could have been prevented. We can simply not allow guns in the Capitol. That has been — we’ve been sounding the alarm as Michigan House Democrats since way before this situation has happened, and to no avail. I’ve read reports that some of my Republican colleagues have said, “If there is a law that would have prevented this from happening, let me know.” We can simply limit or not allow guns in our Capitol, and that would make a huge difference. But to suggest that there’s nothing that can be done, I think, is incorrect.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, you have President Trump not endorsing these indictments yesterday, but calling for the jailing of his political opponent, Joe Biden, as well as the former president of the United States, Barack Obama. He was doing this yesterday, speaking on Fox. And I’m wondering, as an African American representative in Michigan, Kyra Harris Bolden, are you getting more security right now? How much security is now surrounding the Michigan governor?
REP. KYRA HARRIS BOLDEN: So, the Michigan governor has always had her detail. And I want to take the time to thank the FBI and the police that thwarted this plan.
Individual legislators do not get protection. And as I stated before, our offices are actually across the street from the Capitol. There’s no secret entrance. And so, we typically have to walk through whatever rally, protest, demonstration is on the Capitol lawn. And I will say that as a Black woman, walking past that event that day where there were heavily armed — and now that we know — domestic terrorists, and going in the back door of my place of work was incredibly demeaning.
To see Confederate flags and nooses, as the great-granddaughter of a man that was lynched, it honestly brought me to tears. To see the point that we have gotten to is truly heartbreaking. And I hope that instead of just words, we actually take action to make sure that something like this doesn’t actually happen and that we don’t carry and stoke the flames of hate in Michigan.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you so much for being with us, Democratic Michigan state Representative Kyra Harris Bolden and Russ McNamara, a reporter at WDET in Detroit. Of course, we’ll continue to follow these issues. And again, President Trump, even as these indictments came down, continued to attack Governor Whitmer repeatedly yesterday and continues that attack today.
Shortly before we broadcast this morning, this year’s Nobel Peace Prize was announced. We’re going to go to that in a moment.


democracynow--2020-10-09--Headlines for October  9, 2020

Headlines for October  9, 2020

Trump ’ s personal doctor said in a statement he “ anticipates ” the president can return to public engagements on Saturday — even though the White House continues to withhold critical details about the president ’ s mental and physical health , including when Trump had his last negative test for coronavirus .
On Thursday morning , Trump told Fox Business he has recovered completely from COVID-19 .
Trump also repeated his claim that his bout with COVID-19 has made him immune to the coronavirus — even though there ’ s evidence some people can become reinfected .
Throughout @ @ @ @ @ @ @ out against his political opponents on Twitter , demanding that Attorney General William Barr lock up Barack Obama , Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden .
And on Thursday evening , Trump coughed his way through an interview with Fox News ’ s Sean Hannity .
At another point in the telephone interview , Trump appeared to mute his microphone , only to cough again before he resumed speaking .
President Donald Trump : “ We had three debates with Hillary .
And on , I think , the first debate [ coughs ] @ @ @ @ @ @ @ me — on the first debate , they oscillated the mic .
”

Trump’s personal doctor said in a statement he “anticipates” the president can return to public engagements on Saturday — even though the White House continues to withhold critical details about the president’s mental and physical health, including when Trump had his last negative test for coronavirus. On Thursday morning, Trump told Fox Business he has recovered completely from COVID-19.
President Donald Trump: “I’m back because I’m a perfect physical specimen and I’m extremely young.”
Trump also repeated his claim that his bout with COVID-19 has made him immune to the coronavirus — even though there’s evidence some people can become reinfected.
President Donald Trump: “Remember this: When you catch it, you get better, and then you’re immune.”
Throughout the day, Trump continued to lash out against his political opponents on Twitter, demanding that Attorney General William Barr lock up Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. And on Thursday evening, Trump coughed his way through an interview with Fox News’s Sean Hannity.
President Donald Trump: “Absentee is OK. [coughs] Absentee ballots [coughs] — excuse me — absentee ballots are fine.”
At another point in the telephone interview, Trump appeared to mute his microphone, only to cough again before he resumed speaking.


democracynow--2020-10-12--O'odham Land Defenders Lead Indigenous Resistance to Trump's Border Wall Amid Militarized Crackdown

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , _The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Fourteen states and more than 130 cities across the United States are celebrating Indigenous Peoples ’ Day today in place of or in addition to Columbus Day , as the myth of Columbus as beneficent discoverer is debunked , as he ’ s talked about an oppressive colonizer .
The holiday comes amidst a growing call to remove monuments to Columbus , along with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ chance to recognize the critical role of Indigenous people in protecting the planet .
So we spend the rest of the hour in Arizona looking at how O ’ odham land and water defenders are leading a campaign against the construction of the U.S.-Mexico border wall near a sacred spring inside the Organ Pipe National Monument .
The federal government has blocked road access to the sacred spring , where contractors have been pumping millions of gallons of groundwater to make cement for the wall .
In August , activists temporarily blocked access @ @ @ @ @ @ @ were being assembled for use in the wall .
AMY GOODMAN : This campaign of nonviolent protests comes as a federal appeals court issued an order Friday to halt the border wall construction in Arizona , along with Texas , New Mexico and California , in response to a lawsuit filed by the Sierra Club , along with multiple states and other groups .
The 9th U.S .
Circuit Court of Appeals said the Trump administration violated the Constitution when it tried to pay for the construction using $ 3.6 billion that Congress @ @ @ @ @ @ @ more , we go to Tucson , Arizona , where we ’ re joined by Nellie Jo David , an O ’ odham water and land defender who was arrested last month on Hia C-ed O ’ odham traditional homeland when protesting near the construction site of the U.S.-Mexico border wall in Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument .
Nellie , welcome to Democracy Now !
Can you explain what ’ s happening there and the significance of this court decision ?
NELLIE JO DAVID : Well , thank you , Amy .
Yeah @ @ @ @ @ @ @ tumultuous road .
Our lands have been under militarization by Border Patrol , by occupying entities , pretty much my entire life .
And so , this is just another episode in which we have just been under complete militarization from these entities .
And now it ’ s including these companies that are putting in man camps where I ’ m from , Ajo , Arizona .
And for them to be constructing during this time of COVID is especially troubling for us .
We ’ re dealing with our own problems @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they ’ re desecrating our sacred sites in the area of Quitobaquito Springs , in the area of Monument Hill and then beyond , in many areas , in Cabeza Prieta Wildlife Refuge and also the Barry Goldwater bombing range .
So , all of these areas of land are occupied and , you know , are our ancestral Indigenous territory .
And so , we ’ ve been engaged since construction — while construction started in August , in trying to stop the border wall .
And recently , you know , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to a place where we could no longer — we could no longer watch this without doing something drastic .
And in our case , we stood in front of bulldozers , and I ended up sitting in the bucket of a bulldozer and ended up getting arrested for that .
AMY GOODMAN : When was that ?
NELLIE JO DAVID : That was about a month ago , on September 9th .
AMY GOODMAN : Explain who the Tohono O ’ odham are , who you are , and the Indigenous people @ @ @ @ @ @ @ where the land stretches .
NELLIE JO DAVID : Yes , I would love to .
So , it ’ s a pretty large landscape .
You know , the Tohono O ’ odham Reservation is roughly the shape of Connecticut .
But that ’ s not — that doesn ’ t confine the area where we ’ re originally from .
Originally , our traditional landscapes extends as far north to what ’ s now known as the Gila River and Salt River reservations in the Scottsdale-Phoenix area , all the way @ @ @ @ @ @ @ way south towards the Caborca area in Mexico , and all the way east to the San Pedro River , where I ’ m currently located , in Tucson .
So , this is a pretty large landscape .
And our people and our heritage doesn ’ t really know borders .
I mean , it doesn ’ t know borders .
We have O ’ odham in Mexico .
I personally have family in Mexico .
And so , with these borders that are crossing our territorial homelands , it has impacted @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it could impact us .
AMY GOODMAN : Can you talk about what happened when you were arrested ?
How were you treated ?
NELLIE JO DAVID : Oh , man .
It was a very difficult experience .
We were out there early in the morning .
We had not intended to do what we did that day , but felt compelled to , given the desecration that was happening .
And so , we were out there in the heat for a good two hours , holding off the — holding @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they arrested us .
And then , once we were arrested , we were handcuffed and taken to Lukeville , where we were fingerprinted and processed .
And from there , we didn ’ t know what was going to happen to us .
We thought we were going to be taken to Ajo , which was , you know , local jail , about 45 minutes from Lukeville , which is at the port of entry .
And so , that ’ s where we thought we were going , but they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a few-more-hour drive , and we ended up going all the way to a Florence facility , also known as CoreCivic .
And so , from there , it was a really confusing and scary moment for us , or two days , because we spent two days there .
So , from the moment we got there , we were kind of treated as if we were dangerous individuals .
We were chained and handcuffed to our waist and around our feet .
Reminded me of all the Operation Streamline proceedings that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ happen every single day .
And so , we were chained .
We were not told what was happening .
We asked for lawyers .
We were not allowed to speak to one ’ til the next day .
We asked for phone calls .
We were not given a phone call .
And it took a lot of time for them to actually process us .
So , from going to that extreme heat in the Arizona desert to the extreme cold of the CoreCivic facility , we weren ’ t feeling @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it got to be pretty late into the night until we were actually processed .
And then , after we were processed — AMY GOODMAN : Did they ask you your citizenship status , Nellie ?
NELLIE JO DAVID : I don ’ t remember .
I don ’ t think that they did .
Yeah , I think that they might have known that we were not — that we had citizenship on this side .
AMY GOODMAN : And can you talk about what this wall has meant and the effect @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I mean , Democracy Now !
was out there covering this area .
We saw and have since seen some of the destruction .
And what it means for ceremonies and for the environment ?
NELLIE JO DAVID : Yeah , the destruction has been devastating .
Since August a year ago , or over a year ago , we ’ ve seen this violation .
The Ha : sañ , the saguaro cactus , in our O ’ odham stories , we view them as people .
And so , to watch @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they ’ re at and then just pretty much left there to die , many of them — you know , the Border Patrol or construction or whoever ’ s the entity , as a spokespeople , were claiming that they were not killing the saguaro cactus , but they were killing very many of them .
We saw them just kind of carelessly thrown on the side , which they were later picked up .
There was all kinds of wilderness that just had to be removed for just the access roads @ @ @ @ @ @ @ road .
And so , all of that was killed and violated , and so that was one of the first violations .
And then we saw Monument Hill being blown up , in a big show of might , while the Tohono O ’ odham chairman was in Washington , D.C. And also , you know , so there ’ s so many sites that have been impacted .
It ’ s a very large stretch of land .
And then Quitobaquito Spring is the most recent one that ’ s been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ vital source of water in the middle of a very dry desert .
You know , this is a corridor where Prevention Through Deterrence is used to target migrants that are coming through , because it is known by authorities that water is such a precious resource that folks coming through , if they don ’ t have that water , animals coming through — all , pretty much , wildlife , if they don ’ t have that water , that means the end of the life cycle .
So , that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ us .
It ’ s the source of life .
It ’ s the source of so much for people , for plants , for desert fauna and pretty much all life surrounding that .
And so , since border wall construction began , drillers have come and pretty much set up all around the area and have been drilling groundwater for the roads and , as well , in addition to mixing concrete to hold the steel barriers .
And so , pretty much all year we ’ ve been watching Quitobaquito @ @ @ @ @ @ @ been depleted .
The rate in which the flow comes from — it comes from a mountain .
It comes out of a mountain and into a man-built oasis , where the water is kept .
But , you know , it ’ s a natural spring .
And that natural flow has been very much impacted by all of that drilling .
In addition to these huge lights in the area — we have some of the most beautiful views of the stars around .
And those bright lights are also affecting @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s bird migrations .
It ’ s a very important animal and bird migratory habitat .
And just last year , we saw many footprints from , you know , what we know as Mexico coming into Quitobaquito Springs , and because there is a border wall barrier , all of these animals who are coming on foot , even animals or birds that have low flying power , can not access the springs .
And so , we fear and we worry that the border wall will cause extinction for many of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , if it loses its water source in the area .
There ’ s the Sonoran mud turtle .
There ’ s the Quitobaquito pupfish .
And so , there ’ s all of this life that we ’ re watching — we ’ re watching before our eyes as it ’ s all harmed .
And so , it ’ s been a very scary and very devastating thing for us .
And it ’ s also our heritage .
We had ancestors that lived at the spring .
Amber Ortega , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a direct descendant of people that lived — Hia C-ed O ’ odham that lived at Quitobaquito Springs .
And so , surrounding the entire area , we had villages .
We had all these connections .
Sonoita is a nearby border community .
AMY GOODMAN : Nellie Jo David , as we come to the end of this discussion , on this Indigenous Peoples ’ Day , can you talk about the solidarity across Indigenous communities in the borderlands against the wall , including the Kumeyaay people of California ?
NELLIE JO @ @ @ @ @ @ @ solidarity of Kumeyaay and Carrizo/Comecrudo , Lipan Apache and all border Indigenous peoples whose lives have been so severely impacted by not only this border wall , but the complete militarization of our homelands due to this irrational fear of , you know , folks on the other side , which are our relatives .
And so , other tribes , other Indigenous people along the border feel that pain of being disconnected , of having a border cross us .
And so , you know , we definitely stand in solidarity .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ actions against the construction have gone to other places , such as the Carrizo/Comecrudo area in Texas and also the Kumeyaay lands that now occupy California .
And we stood in solidarity .
AMY GOODMAN : And will this ruling — will this ruling stop the building of the wall , with a federal court saying no to diverting military funds into the southern border wall ?
NELLIE JO DAVID : Well , I certainly hope so , and it should .
You know , I ’ m almost very — I ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Last June — NELLIE JO DAVID : OK. Well , last year , we were told that we had time , and then the Supreme Court issued a stay , and it was lifted , and we no longer have that .
So , I hope so .
But in the meantime , actions are still going to take place in which we will fight the border wall , we will fight militarization , we will fight the desecration of our homelands .
AMY GOODMAN : Nellie Jo David , I thank @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , a Tohono O ’ odham water and land defender , part of the ongoing nonviolent protests against the construction of the U.S.-Mexico border wall in the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument .
That does it for our broadcast .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Stay safe .
Wear a mask .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
Fourteen states and more than 130 cities across the United States are celebrating Indigenous Peoples’ Day today in place of or in addition to Columbus Day, as the myth of Columbus as beneficent discoverer is debunked, as he’s talked about an oppressive colonizer. The holiday comes amidst a growing call to remove monuments to Columbus, along with Confederate generals. It also offers a chance to recognize the critical role of Indigenous people in protecting the planet.
So we spend the rest of the hour in Arizona looking at how O’odham land and water defenders are leading a campaign against the construction of the U.S.-Mexico border wall near a sacred spring inside the Organ Pipe National Monument. The federal government has blocked road access to the sacred spring, where contractors have been pumping millions of gallons of groundwater to make cement for the wall. In August, activists temporarily blocked access to a site where 30-foot steel barriers were being assembled for use in the wall.
LAND AND WATER DEFENDERS: No border, no wall! No border, no wall! No border, no wall! No border, no wall! No border, no wall! No border, no wall!
AMY GOODMAN: This campaign of nonviolent protests comes as a federal appeals court issued an order Friday to halt the border wall construction in Arizona, along with Texas, New Mexico and California, in response to a lawsuit filed by the Sierra Club, along with multiple states and other groups. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the Trump administration violated the Constitution when it tried to pay for the construction using $3.6 billion that Congress had authorized for the military.
For more, we go to Tucson, Arizona, where we’re joined by Nellie Jo David, an O’odham water and land defender who was arrested last month on Hia C-ed O’odham traditional homeland when protesting near the construction site of the U.S.-Mexico border wall in Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument.
Nellie, welcome to Democracy Now! Can you explain what’s happening there and the significance of this court decision?
NELLIE JO DAVID: Well, thank you, Amy.
Yeah, it’s been a pretty tumultuous road. Our lands have been under militarization by Border Patrol, by occupying entities, pretty much my entire life. And so, this is just another episode in which we have just been under complete militarization from these entities. And now it’s including these companies that are putting in man camps where I’m from, Ajo, Arizona.
And for them to be constructing during this time of COVID is especially troubling for us. We’re dealing with our own problems, on top of the fact that they’re desecrating our sacred sites in the area of Quitobaquito Springs, in the area of Monument Hill and then beyond, in many areas, in Cabeza Prieta Wildlife Refuge and also the Barry Goldwater bombing range. So, all of these areas of land are occupied and, you know, are our ancestral Indigenous territory.
And so, we’ve been engaged since construction — while construction started in August, in trying to stop the border wall. And recently, you know, it just came under — it came to a place where we could no longer — we could no longer watch this without doing something drastic. And in our case, we stood in front of bulldozers, and I ended up sitting in the bucket of a bulldozer and ended up getting arrested for that.
AMY GOODMAN: When was that?
NELLIE JO DAVID: That was about a month ago, on September 9th.
AMY GOODMAN: Explain who the Tohono O’odham are, who you are, and the Indigenous people who live in this area, and where the land stretches.
NELLIE JO DAVID: Yes, I would love to. So, it’s a pretty large landscape. You know, the Tohono O’odham Reservation is roughly the shape of Connecticut. But that’s not — that doesn’t confine the area where we’re originally from. Originally, our traditional landscapes extends as far north to what’s now known as the Gila River and Salt River reservations in the Scottsdale-Phoenix area, all the way west towards Yuma, and all the way south towards the Caborca area in Mexico, and all the way east to the San Pedro River, where I’m currently located, in Tucson. So, this is a pretty large landscape.
And our people and our heritage doesn’t really know borders. I mean, it doesn’t know borders. We have O’odham in Mexico. I personally have family in Mexico. And so, with these borders that are crossing our territorial homelands, it has impacted us in pretty much every way that it could impact us.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about what happened when you were arrested? How were you treated?
NELLIE JO DAVID: Oh, man. It was a very difficult experience. We were out there early in the morning. We had not intended to do what we did that day, but felt compelled to, given the desecration that was happening. And so, we were out there in the heat for a good two hours, holding off the — holding off the construction from happening, until they arrested us.
And then, once we were arrested, we were handcuffed and taken to Lukeville, where we were fingerprinted and processed. And from there, we didn’t know what was going to happen to us. We thought we were going to be taken to Ajo, which was, you know, local jail, about 45 minutes from Lukeville, which is at the port of entry. And so, that’s where we thought we were going, but they ended up taking us past Ajo for a few-more-hour drive, and we ended up going all the way to a Florence facility, also known as CoreCivic. And so, from there, it was a really confusing and scary moment for us, or two days, because we spent two days there.
So, from the moment we got there, we were kind of treated as if we were dangerous individuals. We were chained and handcuffed to our waist and around our feet. Reminded me of all the Operation Streamline proceedings that we witness here in Tucson. They happen every single day. And so, we were chained. We were not told what was happening. We asked for lawyers. We were not allowed to speak to one ’til the next day. We asked for phone calls. We were not given a phone call.
And it took a lot of time for them to actually process us. So, from going to that extreme heat in the Arizona desert to the extreme cold of the CoreCivic facility, we weren’t feeling too great at that point. And it got to be pretty late into the night until we were actually processed. And then, after we were processed —
AMY GOODMAN: Did they ask you your citizenship status, Nellie?
NELLIE JO DAVID: I don’t remember. I don’t think that they did. Yeah, I think that they might have known that we were not — that we had citizenship on this side.
AMY GOODMAN: And can you talk about what this wall has meant and the effect on the environment, as well? I mean, Democracy Now! was out there covering this area. We saw and have since seen some of the destruction. And what it means for ceremonies and for the environment?
NELLIE JO DAVID: Yeah, the destruction has been devastating. Since August a year ago, or over a year ago, we’ve seen this violation. The Ha:sañ, the saguaro cactus, in our O’odham stories, we view them as people. And so, to watch them be uprooted from their locations where they’re at and then just pretty much left there to die, many of them — you know, the Border Patrol or construction or whoever’s the entity, as a spokespeople, were claiming that they were not killing the saguaro cactus, but they were killing very many of them. We saw them just kind of carelessly thrown on the side, which they were later picked up. There was all kinds of wilderness that just had to be removed for just the access roads. There’s a 30-foot access road. And so, all of that was killed and violated, and so that was one of the first violations.
And then we saw Monument Hill being blown up, in a big show of might, while the Tohono O’odham chairman was in Washington, D.C. And also, you know, so there’s so many sites that have been impacted. It’s a very large stretch of land. And then Quitobaquito Spring is the most recent one that’s been desecrated. And it is a very vital source of water in the middle of a very dry desert. You know, this is a corridor where Prevention Through Deterrence is used to target migrants that are coming through, because it is known by authorities that water is such a precious resource that folks coming through, if they don’t have that water, animals coming through — all, pretty much, wildlife, if they don’t have that water, that means the end of the life cycle. So, that’s what Quitobaquito Springs means to us. It’s the source of life. It’s the source of so much for people, for plants, for desert fauna and pretty much all life surrounding that.
And so, since border wall construction began, drillers have come and pretty much set up all around the area and have been drilling groundwater for the roads and, as well, in addition to mixing concrete to hold the steel barriers. And so, pretty much all year we’ve been watching Quitobaquito Springs and how its water source has been depleted. The rate in which the flow comes from — it comes from a mountain. It comes out of a mountain and into a man-built oasis, where the water is kept. But, you know, it’s a natural spring. And that natural flow has been very much impacted by all of that drilling.
In addition to these huge lights in the area — we have some of the most beautiful views of the stars around. And those bright lights are also affecting all of the animals. There’s bird migrations. It’s a very important animal and bird migratory habitat. And just last year, we saw many footprints from, you know, what we know as Mexico coming into Quitobaquito Springs, and because there is a border wall barrier, all of these animals who are coming on foot, even animals or birds that have low flying power, cannot access the springs. And so, we fear and we worry that the border wall will cause extinction for many of these animals, including the Sonoran pronghorn, if it loses its water source in the area. There’s the Sonoran mud turtle. There’s the Quitobaquito pupfish. And so, there’s all of this life that we’re watching — we’re watching before our eyes as it’s all harmed.
And so, it’s been a very scary and very devastating thing for us. And it’s also our heritage. We had ancestors that lived at the spring. Amber Ortega, who was arrested with me, is a direct descendant of people that lived — Hia C-ed O’odham that lived at Quitobaquito Springs. And so, surrounding the entire area, we had villages. We had all these connections. Sonoita is a nearby border community.
AMY GOODMAN: Nellie Jo David, as we come to the end of this discussion, on this Indigenous Peoples’ Day, can you talk about the solidarity across Indigenous communities in the borderlands against the wall, including the Kumeyaay people of California?
NELLIE JO DAVID: Yes. We are in solidarity of Kumeyaay and Carrizo/Comecrudo, Lipan Apache and all border Indigenous peoples whose lives have been so severely impacted by not only this border wall, but the complete militarization of our homelands due to this irrational fear of, you know, folks on the other side, which are our relatives. And so, other tribes, other Indigenous people along the border feel that pain of being disconnected, of having a border cross us. And so, you know, we definitely stand in solidarity. Many of us who have been taking actions against the construction have gone to other places, such as the Carrizo/Comecrudo area in Texas and also the Kumeyaay lands that now occupy California. And we stood in solidarity.
AMY GOODMAN: And will this ruling — will this ruling stop the building of the wall, with a federal court saying no to diverting military funds into the southern border wall?
NELLIE JO DAVID: Well, I certainly hope so, and it should. You know, I’m almost very — I’m very skeptical of things like that. Last June —
AMY GOODMAN: We have 20 seconds.
NELLIE JO DAVID: OK. Well, last year, we were told that we had time, and then the Supreme Court issued a stay, and it was lifted, and we no longer have that. So, I hope so. But in the meantime, actions are still going to take place in which we will fight the border wall, we will fight militarization, we will fight the desecration of our homelands.
AMY GOODMAN: Nellie Jo David, I thank you so much for being with us, a Tohono O’odham water and land defender, part of the ongoing nonviolent protests against the construction of the U.S.-Mexico border wall in the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument.
That does it for our broadcast. I’m Amy Goodman. Stay safe. Wear a mask.


democracynow--2020-10-12--"I Feel for Them": Son of Former White House Butler Says Trump Endangered Health of Residence Staff

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : As we continue to look at how President Trump ’ s reckless actions have threatened the health of the domestic staff at the White House , we ’ re joined by Charles Allen .
His father Eugene Allen worked as a butler at the White House serving eight presidents , from Harry Truman to Ronald Reagan .
Eugene Allen died in 2010 , but his life story became the basis of Lee Daniels ’ film The Butler .
AMY GOODMAN : Part @ @ @ @ @ @ @ based on the life story of Eugene Allen .
That was Oprah Winfrey and Forest Whitaker , playing Eugene Allen and his wife .
Their son , Charles Allen , joins us now .
We welcome you to Democracy Now !
It ’ s great to have you with us , Charles .
CHARLES ALLEN : Thank you for having me .
AMY GOODMAN : So , as you watched President Trump on the balcony , I mean , so much was going on , on social media , as people started to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ” I think Politico said things don ’ t end well when you start with a balcony speech .
But Trump , standing there , does a military salute , gives a thumbs up , then dramatically takes off his mask , turns around and walks into the White House .
Talk about who works in the White House , Charles Allen .
CHARLES ALLEN : Well , I was listening to the lady you had on earlier , and she was talking about the status of the White House workers .
The @ @ @ @ @ @ @ but they ’ re not civil servants , for the most part .
The residence staff are not civil , so they come under excepted service .
And what that means is , like , anytime they want to tell you that they don ’ t need your services anymore , then you might come to work , and your stuff will be at the gate in a cardboard box .
But it ’ s made up primarily — the butler staff , you know , like during dad ’ s time , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ American workers .
And I think this had been true since the Roosevelt administration .
So , the butlers , which I ’ m more familiar with than the maids , but was primarily African American , and the maids also , and then housemen , primarily African American .
And as my dad used to say , they were , you know , the little people that made it possible for the big people to do what they did .
AMY GOODMAN : And so , again , if you were — @ @ @ @ @ @ @ — and can you talk about how you think President Trump compares as an employer , though he doesn ’ t employ them , is that right ?
They are federal employees .
CHARLES ALLEN : They are federal employees , and they go from administration to administration .
A lot of the staff have been there — like , my father had been there over 30 years .
And the Ficklin family , I think it had been a member of the Ficklin family at the White House for over 50 years @ @ @ @ @ @ @ jobs are — you know , I think it ’ s like , let ’ s say , like being a gondola in Venice , you know , that ’ s passed down from father to son and to daughters and whatnot .
It goes on down the line , a tremendous family lineage , you know , on that job .
AMY GOODMAN : Many of the staff , the majority of the staff , are African American , are Latinx workers .
They are older .
Of course , this is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is the hardest hit , two-and-a-half to three times harder , end up hospitalized , end up dying .
If you can talk about this and why the first family , their actions in the White House so matter ?
And maybe use some examples from history , with your dad there from , amazingly , right after World War II , President Truman , right through to President Reagan .
CHARLES ALLEN : A lot of the relationships , during my father ’ s time , anyway — I can ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ but the relationships between the butlers and the presidents , the first families , a lot of times there were some very close bonds that developed , I mean , the very close familial bonds , if you will .
And , I mean , these people , the butlers , there are six , seven full-time butlers , and they come in contact with the family every day , I mean , face to face , meeting with them every day .
And they ’ re very dedicated people .
I mean @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you know , I don ’ t guess he was the exception , but my father never missed a day at work .
I mean , he prided himself on that .
So , for 35 years , he got up , and he went in there , he went on that job .
And he was dedicated .
And my father and the other employees , as well , were very dedicated to those first families .
Very dedicated .
My father , they used to ask him , you know , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he said that he liked them all .
And he was telling the truth .
I can vouch for him .
He found something in each one of those presidents and their families that he liked .
You know , he felt like all of them brought something to the table .
AMY GOODMAN : I don ’ t know if it was true , based on truth , the first time he walks into the Oval Office bringing coffee and tea , it is President Eisenhower — and , I mean , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ AMY GOODMAN : But he is calling in the National Guard , the state troopers to integrate Little Rock , Arkansas , the high school .
CHARLES ALLEN : Right .
My dad — and it ’ s interesting that you bring that up , because that ’ s one of the things that he said about — I can relate to you that he said about President Eisenhower .
And he said , whatever President Eisenhower ’ s feelings might have been , deep down inside , he said , in regard @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he said — he said he did his job .
He did his job .
And sometimes that ’ s all that you want people to do .
Just do your job .
What does it say that — as a president , what does it say down there that you ’ re supposed to do ?
You know , then do that .
Protect all of the people .
All of the people .
And I think he admired that very much about Mr. Eisenhower .
AMY GOODMAN : You know , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sick in the White House , right ?
He had a heart attack .
In fact , it ’ s the beginning of the 25th Amendment .
He had written a letter to his vice president , who he had excluded from decision-making when he was sick .
He had a kind of team of a few advisers around him , definitely not the vice president , Richard Nixon .
But , ultimately , when he got really sick , he wrote a letter to him to say , “ You will take @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 25th Amendment .
Did your father talk about President Eisenhower getting sick and what that meant in the White House ?
CHARLES ALLEN : Not really , because when President Eisenhower got sick , he wasn ’ t in — he wasn ’ t in the White House .
He was somewhere — I forgot exactly where he was , but he was somewhere enjoying a holiday , you know , playing golf .
And he was stricken .
And I think by the time that he got back to the White House @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and he was in pretty good shape .
So , I don ’ t think he was around Mr. Eisenhower that much when he was bedridden , let me put it that way .
AMY GOODMAN : So , what rights did your father have , and others ?
And do you speak with people today who have worked in the White House ?
For example , if the first family isn ’ t careful , if you have President Trump , for example , outright lying about he is immune — you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that he has taken a test that makes him negative — and as he dramatically takes off his mask .
What rights do the workers who so intimately serve a president have ?
CHARLES ALLEN : They ’ ve got all of the rights in the world .
But you have to understand , they have to be very careful .
And one of the reasons they have to be especially careful is because they ’ re excepted workers , you know , which means that they can just say , “ We @ @ @ @ @ @ @ any longer.
” And so , they have to be very careful .
They have to keep stuff to themselves .
I don ’ t know .
They ’ re the little people .
They have to be very careful .
AMY GOODMAN : What do you think can be done — AMY GOODMAN : What do you think can be done to support and protect them more , as , for example , you have the reports in The New York Times that workers who get sick — and we ’ re @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , that may be larger , for example , than four people right now in what ’ s called the residence , the residence staff — AMY GOODMAN : — when it said , “ We we won ’ t be revealing who ’ s there and how many are sick ” ?
CHARLES ALLEN : Right .
You know , to tell you the truth , I really don ’ t know .
I really don ’ t say — like , right now , as we ’ re speaking now , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ now , I don ’ t know what could be done to protect them .
I really don ’ t .
AMY GOODMAN : Does it make you angry , what you ’ re seeing now in the White House ?
CHARLES ALLEN : I feel for them , yes .
I feel for them very much , because it ’ s a very closed-mouth — as everyone on this , it ’ s a very closed-mouth group of people .
And they don ’ t come out .
They don ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ kind of like it was in the movie , The Butler , you know , where they ’ re sitting around playing cards .
And I think it was Lenny Kravitz that said , “ Somebody ’ s been running his mouth and stuff.
” Very closed-mouth .
They didn ’ t talk a lot about stuff that went on in that job .
They really didn ’ t .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to thank you so much for being with us , son of the former White House butler Eugene @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for the feature film of Lee Daniels called The Butler .
Next up , as we mark Indigenous Peoples ’ Day , we look at the ongoing Indigenous-led protests against President Trump ’ s border wall in southern Arizona .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: As we continue to look at how President Trump’s reckless actions have threatened the health of the domestic staff at the White House, we’re joined by Charles Allen. His father Eugene Allen worked as a butler at the White House serving eight presidents, from Harry Truman to Ronald Reagan. Eugene Allen died in 2010, but his life story became the basis of Lee Daniels’ film The Butler.
FREDDIE FALLOWS: [played by Colman Domingo] Are you political, Mr Gaines?
CECIL GAINES: [played by Forest Whitaker] No, sir.
FREDDIE FALLOWS: Good. We have no tolerance for politics at the White House.
CECIL GAINES: I’m Cecil Gaines. I’m the new butler.
FREDDIE FALLOWS: You hear nothing. You see nothing. You only serve.
GLORIA GAINES: [played by Oprah Winfrey] You know he got that job his self. The White House called him; he didn’t call the White House.
GINA: [played by Adriane Lenox] I want to hear all the stories.
GLORIA GAINES: I don’t know how many stories you’re going to hear, because they done swore him to some kind of secret code. I’m so proud of you.
EARL GAINES: [played by David Banner] Dr. King.
REV. MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.: [played by Nelsan Ellis] What do your daddy do?
EARL GAINES: He’s a butler.
REV. MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.: Young brother, the Black domestic play an important role in our history.
GLORIA GAINES: Everything you are and everything you have is because of that butler.
AMY GOODMAN: Part of the trailer to The Butler, based on the life story of Eugene Allen. That was Oprah Winfrey and Forest Whitaker, playing Eugene Allen and his wife. Their son, Charles Allen, joins us now.
We welcome you to Democracy Now! It’s great to have you with us, Charles.
CHARLES ALLEN: Thank you for having me.
AMY GOODMAN: So, as you watched President Trump on the balcony, I mean, so much was going on, on social media, as people started to talk about him as “Benito Trumpolini.” I think Politico said things don’t end well when you start with a balcony speech. But Trump, standing there, does a military salute, gives a thumbs up, then dramatically takes off his mask, turns around and walks into the White House. Talk about who works in the White House, Charles Allen.
CHARLES ALLEN: Well, I was listening to the lady you had on earlier, and she was talking about the status of the White House workers. The White House workers are government employees, but they’re not civil servants, for the most part. The residence staff are not civil, so they come under excepted service. And what that means is, like, anytime they want to tell you that they don’t need your services anymore, then you might come to work, and your stuff will be at the gate in a cardboard box.
But it’s made up primarily — the butler staff, you know, like during dad’s time, it was primarily made up of African American workers. And I think this had been true since the Roosevelt administration. So, the butlers, which I’m more familiar with than the maids, but was primarily African American, and the maids also, and then housemen, primarily African American. And as my dad used to say, they were, you know, the little people that made it possible for the big people to do what they did.
AMY GOODMAN: And so, again, if you were — if your father was working there today — and can you talk about how you think President Trump compares as an employer, though he doesn’t employ them, is that right? They are federal employees.
CHARLES ALLEN: They are federal employees, and they go from administration to administration. A lot of the staff have been there — like, my father had been there over 30 years. And the Ficklin family, I think it had been a member of the Ficklin family at the White House for over 50 years. So, a lot of these jobs are — you know, I think it’s like, let’s say, like being a gondola in Venice, you know, that’s passed down from father to son and to daughters and whatnot. It goes on down the line, a tremendous family lineage, you know, on that job.
AMY GOODMAN: Many of the staff, the majority of the staff, are African American, are Latinx workers. They are older. Of course, this is the very population that during this pandemic is the hardest hit, two-and-a-half to three times harder, end up hospitalized, end up dying. If you can talk about this and why the first family, their actions in the White House so matter? And maybe use some examples from history, with your dad there from, amazingly, right after World War II, President Truman, right through to President Reagan.
CHARLES ALLEN: A lot of the relationships, during my father’s time, anyway — I can’t really speak after 1986 so much, but the relationships between the butlers and the presidents, the first families, a lot of times there were some very close bonds that developed, I mean, the very close familial bonds, if you will. And, I mean, these people, the butlers, there are six, seven full-time butlers, and they come in contact with the family every day, I mean, face to face, meeting with them every day.
And they’re very dedicated people. I mean, my father never — and, you know, I don’t guess he was the exception, but my father never missed a day at work. I mean, he prided himself on that. So, for 35 years, he got up, and he went in there, he went on that job. And he was dedicated. And my father and the other employees, as well, were very dedicated to those first families. Very dedicated.
My father, they used to ask him, you know, which was his favorite president. And he said that he liked them all. And he was telling the truth. I can vouch for him. He found something in each one of those presidents and their families that he liked. You know, he felt like all of them brought something to the table.
AMY GOODMAN: I don’t know if it was true, based on truth, the first time he walks into the Oval Office bringing coffee and tea, it is President Eisenhower — and, I mean, he did first serve President Truman.
CHARLES ALLEN: Right.
AMY GOODMAN: But he is calling in the National Guard, the state troopers to integrate Little Rock, Arkansas, the high school.
CHARLES ALLEN: Right. My dad — and it’s interesting that you bring that up, because that’s one of the things that he said about — I can relate to you that he said about President Eisenhower. And he said, whatever President Eisenhower’s feelings might have been, deep down inside, he said, in regard to that situation in Little Rock, he said — he said he did his job. He did his job. And sometimes that’s all that you want people to do. Just do your job. What does it say that — as a president, what does it say down there that you’re supposed to do? You know, then do that. Protect all of the people. All of the people. And I think he admired that very much about Mr. Eisenhower.
AMY GOODMAN: You know, General Eisenhower, President Eisenhower, got sick in the White House, right? He had a heart attack. In fact, it’s the beginning of the 25th Amendment. He had written a letter to his vice president, who he had excluded from decision-making when he was sick. He had a kind of team of a few advisers around him, definitely not the vice president, Richard Nixon. But, ultimately, when he got really sick, he wrote a letter to him to say, “You will take over.” But this led to the 25th Amendment. Did your father talk about President Eisenhower getting sick and what that meant in the White House?
CHARLES ALLEN: Not really, because when President Eisenhower got sick, he wasn’t in — he wasn’t in the White House. He was somewhere — I forgot exactly where he was, but he was somewhere enjoying a holiday, you know, playing golf. And he was stricken. And I think by the time that he got back to the White House, he had more or less convalesced and he was in pretty good shape. So, I don’t think he was around Mr. Eisenhower that much when he was bedridden, let me put it that way.
AMY GOODMAN: So, what rights did your father have, and others? And do you speak with people today who have worked in the White House? For example, if the first family isn’t careful, if you have President Trump, for example, outright lying about he is immune — you know, they won’t reveal that he has taken a test that makes him negative — and as he dramatically takes off his mask. What rights do the workers who so intimately serve a president have?
CHARLES ALLEN: They’ve got all of the rights in the world. But you have to understand, they have to be very careful. And one of the reasons they have to be especially careful is because they’re excepted workers, you know, which means that they can just say, “We don’t need your services here any longer.” And so, they have to be very careful. They have to keep stuff to themselves. I don’t know. They’re the little people. They have to be very careful.
AMY GOODMAN: What do you think can be done —
CHARLES ALLEN: Very dedicated people.
AMY GOODMAN: What do you think can be done to support and protect them more, as, for example, you have the reports in The New York Times that workers who get sick — and we’re only learning about these one by one, that may be larger, for example, than four people right now in what’s called the residence, the residence staff —
CHARLES ALLEN: The residence, right.
AMY GOODMAN: — when it said, “We we won’t be revealing who’s there and how many are sick”?
CHARLES ALLEN: Right. You know, to tell you the truth, I really don’t know. I really don’t say — like, right now, as we’re speaking now, and the administration that we live under now, I don’t know what could be done to protect them. I really don’t.
AMY GOODMAN: Does it make you angry, what you’re seeing now in the White House?
CHARLES ALLEN: I feel for them, yes. I feel for them very much, because it’s a very closed-mouth — as everyone on this, it’s a very closed-mouth group of people. And they don’t come out. They don’t talk about things. It’s kind of like it was in the movie, The Butler, you know, where they’re sitting around playing cards. And I think it was Lenny Kravitz that said, “Somebody’s been running his mouth and stuff.” Very closed-mouth. They didn’t talk a lot about stuff that went on in that job. They really didn’t.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Charles Allen —
CHARLES ALLEN: I — yes.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you so much for being with us, son of the former White House butler Eugene Allen, whose story was the inspiration for the feature film of Lee Daniels called The Butler.
Next up, as we mark Indigenous Peoples’ Day, we look at the ongoing Indigenous-led protests against President Trump’s border wall in southern Arizona. Stay with us.