democracynow--2020-10-02--Naomi Klein: I Fear Trump Will Exploit His COVID Infection to Further Destabilize the Election

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , as we continue to look at this breaking news , President Trump and the first lady testing positive for COVID-19 , announcing they ’ ll be quarantined for the next 14 days , canceling his campaign events .
We end today ’ s show looking at how the development will impact the presidential race .
We ’ re going to start with Naomi Klein , senior correspondent @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Rutgers University , executive producer of new short video titled A Message from the Future II : The Years of Repair .
Her latest book , out now in paperback , On Fire : The ( Burning ) Case for a Green New Deal .
Naomi , I assume you went to sleep not knowing this news , and you wake up , looking down from British Columbia , and you see what has taken place .
You cover leaders around the world .
We know that President Bolsonaro tested positive for COVID-19 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ three times .
And then you have Boris Johnson , the prime minister of Britain , who said — both of them , like Trump , who have so seriously downplayed the pandemic , risking not clear how many lives .
Boris Johnson , the prime minister , said he was going to work through this .
He ended up in the intensive care unit .
Naomi , if you can talk about this link of the denial of the pandemic to authoritarian leaders ?
NAOMI KLEIN : Sure .
Well , Amy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with you .
Absolutely .
And when you look at these figures — Trump , Bolsonaro , Johnson — these are the figures who believe that they can bully this virus , and they believe they can bully science in all kinds of ways .
But , of course , the pandemic doesn ’ t bend to their will .
And so they ’ ve all been under this sort of reality avalanche .
I mean , Trump is a reality television star .
He ’ s used to being able to cut @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And ever since this pandemic began and his denials made it so much worse and his bullying of scientists made it so much worse , he has finally confronted some physical reality that he can ’ t bully in the same way that he , frankly , bullies the stock market — and has a lot of success bullying reality , but there ’ s some reality that doesn ’ t confirm — doesn ’ t conform .
You know , as you know , Amy , I also have spent a lot @ @ @ @ @ @ @ shock and how they are exploited by the powerful .
That ’ s the thesis behind The Shock Doctrine .
And so I find myself thinking a lot about that this morning , because , as we speak , there is no doubt that Trump is meeting with his advisers , and has been since they knew about this , since they knew about Hope Hicks , trying to figure out how to exploit this , including , I ’ m afraid , using it as an excuse to do what they have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is discredit elections that Trump is terrified he is going to lose .
So , as we think about what this means , we need to be prepared for the president using the fact that he ’ s having to cancel campaign events for two weeks to try to further delegitimize elections that he very likely will lose .
I think we need to remember that this president has been campaigning for reelection since the day after he was inaugurated and since he started circulating false photographs of the rallies that supposedly greeted @ @ @ @ @ @ @ time to campaign .
He has done nothing but campaign for reelection since he became president .
So , I think that , you know , we ’ re seeing a lot of Democrats sending thoughts and prayers this morning .
You know , I really think we should see Trump getting COVID as the epidemiological equivalent of a mass shooting , where the shooter opens fire on the crowd and then turns the gun on himself .
This is not a tragic accident .
It is a crime scene and should be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ those leaders you mentioned , you know , I think that Trump — the reckless endangering of the country , but also himself — right ?
— is a result of the fact that he truly believes — you know , I think he believes in white supremacy , to be honest with you .
Ilhan Omar tweeted yesterday that the president is a white supremacist .
I think she ’ s right .
He talks about his good genes all the time , in this kind of coded language .
I believe @ @ @ @ @ @ @ own genetic supremacy that he has engaged in this reckless behavior despite all of the health risks that we have heard from your medical experts earlier in the show , because he believes himself to be supreme .
And , you know , he is not .
He is fallible .
He is mortal .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman, as we continue to look at this breaking news, President Trump and the first lady testing positive for COVID-19, announcing they’ll be quarantined for the next 14 days, canceling his campaign events. We end today’s show looking at how the development will impact the presidential race.
We’re going to start with Naomi Klein, senior correspondent at The Intercept, a professor at Rutgers University, executive producer of new short video titled A Message from the Future II: The Years of Repair. Her latest book, out now in paperback, On Fire: The (Burning) Case for a Green New Deal.
Naomi, I assume you went to sleep not knowing this news, and you wake up, looking down from British Columbia, and you see what has taken place. You cover leaders around the world. We know that President Bolsonaro tested positive for COVID-19 — at least he announced something like three times. And then you have Boris Johnson, the prime minister of Britain, who said — both of them, like Trump, who have so seriously downplayed the pandemic, risking not clear how many lives. Boris Johnson, the prime minister, said he was going to work through this. He ended up in the intensive care unit. Naomi, if you can talk about this link of the denial of the pandemic to authoritarian leaders?
NAOMI KLEIN: Sure. Well, Amy, it’s good to be with you. Absolutely. And when you look at these figures — Trump, Bolsonaro, Johnson — these are the figures who believe that they can bully this virus, and they believe they can bully science in all kinds of ways. But, of course, the pandemic doesn’t bend to their will. And so they’ve all been under this sort of reality avalanche. I mean, Trump is a reality television star. He’s used to being able to cut and paste reality to his liking. And ever since this pandemic began and his denials made it so much worse and his bullying of scientists made it so much worse, he has finally confronted some physical reality that he can’t bully in the same way that he, frankly, bullies the stock market — and has a lot of success bullying reality, but there’s some reality that doesn’t confirm — doesn’t conform.
You know, as you know, Amy, I also have spent a lot of my writing career researching moments of shock and how they are exploited by the powerful. That’s the thesis behind The Shock Doctrine. And so I find myself thinking a lot about that this morning, because, as we speak, there is no doubt that Trump is meeting with his advisers, and has been since they knew about this, since they knew about Hope Hicks, trying to figure out how to exploit this, including, I’m afraid, using it as an excuse to do what they have been trying to do relentlessly, which is discredit elections that Trump is terrified he is going to lose. So, as we think about what this means, we need to be prepared for the president using the fact that he’s having to cancel campaign events for two weeks to try to further delegitimize elections that he very likely will lose.
I think we need to remember that this president has been campaigning for reelection since the day after he was inaugurated and since he started circulating false photographs of the rallies that supposedly greeted him. He has had plenty of time to campaign. He has done nothing but campaign for reelection since he became president.
So, I think that, you know, we’re seeing a lot of Democrats sending thoughts and prayers this morning. You know, I really think we should see Trump getting COVID as the epidemiological equivalent of a mass shooting, where the shooter opens fire on the crowd and then turns the gun on himself. This is not a tragic accident. It is a crime scene and should be treated as such.
Coming back to those leaders you mentioned, you know, I think that Trump — the reckless endangering of the country, but also himself — right? — is a result of the fact that he truly believes — you know, I think he believes in white supremacy, to be honest with you. Ilhan Omar tweeted yesterday that the president is a white supremacist. I think she’s right. He talks about his good genes all the time, in this kind of coded language. I believe he actually has such faith in his own genetic supremacy that he has engaged in this reckless behavior despite all of the health risks that we have heard from your medical experts earlier in the show, because he believes himself to be supreme. And, you know, he is not. He is fallible. He is mortal.


democracynow--2020-10-02--Superspreader-in-Chief: For Months Trump Spread COVID Lies, Now He May Have Spread the Virus Itself

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : Let ’ s bring in Dr. Abdul El-Sayed .
As you watch this play out , you ’ re both an epidemiologist , you ’ re head of — you were head of Detroit ’ s Health Department .
You also ran for governor of Michigan .
And you know the kind of pressure President Trump has put on Michigan not to have the kind of precautions that doctors like you have been advocating .
This isn ’ t the first time @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sick .
And this is now not just a staffer , but President Trump himself .
Can you talk about the culture at the White House ?
I mean , what we ’ re hearing , that sometimes people wear a mask in the helicopter to Air Force One , but that on Air Force One people do not wear masks and that it is frowned upon , also at the White House , as well , which also puts enormous pressure on reporters in the White House , because they are wearing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s right .
This whole situation speaks to the treatment of the COVID-19 pandemic not as a serious contagious illness that has taken hold and infected millions of people around the country , killed 200,000 people .
Instead , it ’ s been treated as a nuisance to politicize .
And the White House , in keeping with that framing of COVID-19 , has sought to downplay any of the interventions that you can use to keep viral transmission down , whether that is vilifying governors and city officials who either support @ @ @ @ @ @ @ high enough , or it ’ s just modeling the poor behavior that we saw become such an issue just now .
And just as Dr. Gandhi spoke to , we don ’ t know how far this is going to go , because , of course , the upper reaches of government are highly interconnected .
And so , you ’ re talking about people meeting with each other in the White House , where masking is limited , and potentially taking that to Capitol Hill , engaging with other folks , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ respect masks a little bit more .
But all of this portends really poorly for the function of our government , let alone what it has said to the American people about masks , about lockdowns , about this pandemic for the past several months .
AMY GOODMAN : So , I want to talk about the various people at the White House that President Trump has been with .
We ’ ve learned that the Pences have tested negative .
That doesn ’ t necessarily mean they are — is that right @ @ @ @ @ @ @ course , it takes sometimes days before you are to test positive when you have been exposed to someone with COVID-19 .
But President Trump and the first lady have tested positive .
Then you have the big events of this week .
President Trump nominated Amy Coney Barrett .
There was a major event at the White House , outside .
Hundreds of people were there .
Most , including Amy Coney Barrett ’ s whole family , her seven children and others , and the Trump family , were not wearing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has been going to the Congress every day to meet with mainly Republican senators , one after another after another .
And she is shepherded around by White House staff .
Among the White House staff members are President Trump ’ s chief of staff , Mark Meadows , who goes back and forth , you know , whether he ’ s negotiating on the coronavirus bill or dealing with Judge Barrett , to the White House .
All of these potential superspreading situations , if you can discuss this ?
Because if @ @ @ @ @ @ @ know , there ’ s not that many on Air Force One — and told , in a situation that was clearly a very closed environment — they weren ’ t told of what had been known many , many hours before , that they were on a flight with at least one COVID-infected person — now we know it was at least three , because President Trump and his wife tested positive .
If you can talk about the significance of this ?
DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED : Yeah , that ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ step back for a second and just appreciate the natural history of how this works .
You know , from that time that you get infected , the virus has to replicate in your body to the point where you ’ re going to have enough in your nasopharynx that it ’ s going to show up on a test .
And that can be anywhere from two days to five days .
And five days is the average time when somebody might get symptoms .
So , the fact is , we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ chain of transmission works .
We ’ re assuming that the president and his wife may have been infected by Hope Hicks .
It ’ s possible that they were all infected by the same individual who is someone else .
We just don ’ t know how this chain is working .
But the point that you ’ re making is really important .
You ’ ve got folks — AMY GOODMAN : Or that the president might have infected Hope Hicks .
DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED : That ’ s right .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ these are possible .
We just don ’ t know how this works .
And frankly , it ’ s going to take some really , really thoughtful contact tracing .
All of that requires transparency .
And there really hasn ’ t been any transparency .
In fact , there are reports out of the White House that people were hoping that Hope Hicks ’ s diagnosis wasn ’ t going to become public and that they could just hide this from everyone else .
And so , contact tracing and public @ @ @ @ @ @ @ transparency , such that everybody knows if they came in contact with somebody who may have infected them , so that they can do what they need to do to protect themselves and protect others .
That ’ s clearly not happening here .
And it ’ s good investigative journalistic work that ’ s forcing a lot of this information out .
But all of this is to say that you ’ re right : There is a tight network of transmission — people like Amy Coney Barrett , jumping from Senate @ @ @ @ @ @ @ confirmed ; people like Mark Meadows , whose job it is , is to liaise with Congress all the time on legislation that ’ s pending ; and all of the superspreader events that you just talked about , all of the travel that Donald Trump and his entourage have been taking over the course of this campaign — all the while — right ?
— trying to make a point about this pandemic being less than what we all know it is : a very serious public health tragedy that requires certain @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
And those just haven ’ t been followed , almost as a point of trying to bring it down .
And now we see , you know , if you — the problem with science — right ?
— is that if you try and mess with science , science always wins .
And this is what ’ s happening right now .
And so , we wish everyone a speedy recovery , but let ’ s be clear : The humanity that it takes to say that — right ?
— @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the people around him .
And unfortunately , we ’ re seeing what the consequences are right now .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to turn to President Trump speaking at a campaign rally in Ohio in September .
AMY GOODMAN : So , if you can respond to that , Dr .
El-Sayed ?
And also , you know , now President Trump has canceled his campaign rallies , for example , in Wisconsin , and we ’ re going to talk to the reporter John Nichols in Wisconsin .
He was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ positivity rate in Wisconsin is just going up and up .
But what hasn ’ t been canceled , yes , or maybe on the broad — yet , maybe on the broadcast now that we ’ re doing it ’ s been canceled , is this one phone conversation that President Trump was going to hold today on COVID-vulnerable seniors .
Talk about President Trump .
He ’ s a senior .
He ’ s 74 .
He ’ s obese .
Talk about what are known as comorbidities .
DR. ABDUL @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we talk about this virus , we know that the virus hits real people , not abstract people , and real people have other things going on .
And as you get older , the number of things that may be going on with your health that affect the way that the virus overall changes your health , they increase .
And this is — to use his words , he is an elderly person with other problems — right ?
— including hypertension , high blood pressure , and his obesity .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
But the bigger picture of what he said — right ?
— is that “ it affects virtually nobody.
” And the fact of the matter is , 200,000 people are not nobody .
And I would imagine that the president himself would agree that he ’ s not nobody .
But he ’ s seeing what the consequences of that politicization of this virus is .
And now he and , unfortunately , his family are dealing with what this looks like to be infected and have to watch your whole @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we don ’ t even know what the long-term course of his illness might be .
And , of course , given just the statistics and the epidemiology of what we ’ ve seen in the past , it does not portend very well for him .
And as I said , we wish everyone who is sick with this disease and any disease a speedy recovery .
But it requires us to step back and look at the inconsistency of what he has said and the inconsistency of how him and his @ @ @ @ @ @ @ then step back and say , “ Well , look , if it can happen to him , too , what does that mean about how we have been dealing with this all along , and what we should have been doing for all of these people who have both become sick and died and all of these people who have lost livelihoods because of it ?
” AMY GOODMAN : I wanted to go to a tweet of a Bloomberg reporter .
This is really interesting .
It was tweeted by Jennifer @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on Hope Hicks .
And this is very important .
The White House did not reveal this .
And so , they did not reveal that she was sick with COVID-19 on the plane at night Wednesday and Thursday morning , before President Trump flew to Bedminster .
So , the people who met him at Bedminster , his high donors , in a closed event of about a hundred people , they did not know .
The people on the plane , and so often the concern about staffers who serve him @ @ @ @ @ @ @ been exposed to COVID .
But it ’ s not just Hope Hicks .
Jennifer Jacobs tweets , “ Some of Trump ’ s closest aides sensed on WEDNESDAY that the president was feeling poorly .
The president seemed exhausted , I ’ m told .
Some chalked it up to fatigue from an intense campaign schedule , others began to worry he had the coronavirus.
” This was on Wednesday , as he flew in a plane , knowing that Hope Hicks , one of his closest aides , had tested positive @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , to fly in a plane when you know you ’ ve been exposed to someone with active coronavirus , not to mention may not be feeling well himself ?
DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED : I mean , frankly , this is — it ’ s unethical behavior .
I mean , the minute you think you may be a conduit for someone else ’ s illness , you have a responsibility to declare that .
And to fly on a plane with all of the people , all of the aides who are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that it is a safe place to be , you knowing that you potentially could be ill and making them ill , that is an unethical thing to do .
But it is also in keeping with the way that this president has dealt with this virus all along .
And then he gets off the plane , has a meeting in a closed-door area , where he is potentially knowingly exposing a whole bunch of his supporters to this .
I mean , all of this speaks to just an unwillingness and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ engaging this virus for what it is , keeping the people that he has sworn to serve safe , and recognizing how the science works around transmitting this disease among people .
It ’ s unethical .
Frankly , it ’ s immoral .
And we ’ re seeing what the consequences are .
AMY GOODMAN : And I wanted to ask Dr. Gandhi — in July , Herman Cain , the former Republican presidential candidate , co-chair of Black Voices for Trump , he died at the age of 74 , after @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , let ’ s then go back a month .
Cain ’ s last public appearance came on June 20th , when he tweeted a photo of himself at Trump ’ s rally in Tulsa , Oklahoma , June 20th .
Cain wore no mask at the event , which featured thousands of people packed tightly together .
He tested positive for coronavirus 11 days after Trump ’ s rally , where campaign officials discouraged mask use and were filmed removing social distancing stickers inside the arena .
And yet you have President @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s gotten sick at his rallies , as if he knows .
Herman Cain died .
DR. MONICA GANDHI : Yeah .
So , that was a terrible thing .
And it was a terrible tragedy , because since we know how to prevent transmission and mitigate the impact of the illness , while we ’ re waiting for a vaccine , all of those principles should be in play .
So , they ’ re social distancing , they ’ re hand hygiene , they ’ re ventilation if you can , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ So , since none of that was at play , then an older man who was his supporter did get sick at his rally and subsequently died , which is the worst part about this , that people die .
And so , I think that was a tragedy .
And so , now we have another situation where people could get very sick , because they ’ re older , they are — have comorbidities , and people weren ’ t being told that people are at risk , and then they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ then there ’ s no masks .
So , I am going to — we ’ re all going to be watching with concern how many people get tested , how many people get appropriate contact tracing , and how people are treated now .
And it ’ s going to be — you know , I would not — I would absolutely not hold this debate on October 15th , the next debate .
That would not be right .
And because it was a town hall , it was with others @ @ @ @ @ @ @ then , but it ’ s still good practice to not — there needs to be a lot of work right now just focused on the illness .
AMY GOODMAN : Well , I want to thank you , Dr. Monica Gandhi , professor of medicine at UCSF , University of California , San Francisco , and San Francisco General Hospital , and Dr. Abdul El-Sayed , former director of the Detroit Health Department , author of the new book Healing Politics : A Doctor ’ s Journey into the Heart of Our @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , we ’ ll be joined by Naomi Klein — she ’ s in British Colombia — and also John Nichols , who ’ s in Wisconsin , positivity rate going up , about how this news will impact the presidential race , also talk about the line of succession .
Do you know who ’ s in line , if a president can not perform their functions , from president to vice president to House speaker — in this case , Nancy Pelosi — to Senator Chuck Grassley ?
Stay with us @

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s bring in Dr. Abdul El-Sayed. As you watch this play out, you’re both an epidemiologist, you’re head of — you were head of Detroit’s Health Department. You also ran for governor of Michigan. And you know the kind of pressure President Trump has put on Michigan not to have the kind of precautions that doctors like you have been advocating.
This isn’t the first time a staffer at the White House got sick. And this is now not just a staffer, but President Trump himself. Can you talk about the culture at the White House? I mean, what we’re hearing, that sometimes people wear a mask in the helicopter to Air Force One, but that on Air Force One people do not wear masks and that it is frowned upon, also at the White House, as well, which also puts enormous pressure on reporters in the White House, because they are wearing masks.
DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED: That’s right. This whole situation speaks to the treatment of the COVID-19 pandemic not as a serious contagious illness that has taken hold and infected millions of people around the country, killed 200,000 people. Instead, it’s been treated as a nuisance to politicize. And the White House, in keeping with that framing of COVID-19, has sought to downplay any of the interventions that you can use to keep viral transmission down, whether that is vilifying governors and city officials who either support mask mandates or lockdowns when transmission gets high enough, or it’s just modeling the poor behavior that we saw become such an issue just now.
And just as Dr. Gandhi spoke to, we don’t know how far this is going to go, because, of course, the upper reaches of government are highly interconnected. And so, you’re talking about people meeting with each other in the White House, where masking is limited, and potentially taking that to Capitol Hill, engaging with other folks, where, of course, folks do respect masks a little bit more. But all of this portends really poorly for the function of our government, let alone what it has said to the American people about masks, about lockdowns, about this pandemic for the past several months.
AMY GOODMAN: So, I want to talk about the various people at the White House that President Trump has been with. We’ve learned that the Pences have tested negative. That doesn’t necessarily mean they are — is that right? — because you can — of course, it takes sometimes days before you are to test positive when you have been exposed to someone with COVID-19. But President Trump and the first lady have tested positive.
Then you have the big events of this week. President Trump nominated Amy Coney Barrett. There was a major event at the White House, outside. Hundreds of people were there. Most, including Amy Coney Barrett’s whole family, her seven children and others, and the Trump family, were not wearing masks. Now Judge Amy Coney Barrett has been going to the Congress every day to meet with mainly Republican senators, one after another after another. And she is shepherded around by White House staff. Among the White House staff members are President Trump’s chief of staff, Mark Meadows, who goes back and forth, you know, whether he’s negotiating on the coronavirus bill or dealing with Judge Barrett, to the White House.
All of these potential superspreading situations, if you can discuss this? Because if reporters weren’t contacted — you know, there’s not that many on Air Force One — and told, in a situation that was clearly a very closed environment — they weren’t told of what had been known many, many hours before, that they were on a flight with at least one COVID-infected person — now we know it was at least three, because President Trump and his wife tested positive. If you can talk about the significance of this?
DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED: Yeah, that’s right. So, let’s step back for a second and just appreciate the natural history of how this works. You know, from that time that you get infected, the virus has to replicate in your body to the point where you’re going to have enough in your nasopharynx that it’s going to show up on a test. And that can be anywhere from two days to five days. And five days is the average time when somebody might get symptoms.
So, the fact is, we don’t actually know how the chain of transmission works. We’re assuming that the president and his wife may have been infected by Hope Hicks. It’s possible that they were all infected by the same individual who is someone else. We just don’t know how this chain is working. But the point that you’re making is really important. You’ve got folks —
AMY GOODMAN: Or that the president might have infected Hope Hicks.
DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED: That’s right. That’s right. All of these are possible. We just don’t know how this works. And frankly, it’s going to take some really, really thoughtful contact tracing. All of that requires transparency. And there really hasn’t been any transparency. In fact, there are reports out of the White House that people were hoping that Hope Hicks’s diagnosis wasn’t going to become public and that they could just hide this from everyone else.
And so, contact tracing and public health require a very honest degree of transparency, such that everybody knows if they came in contact with somebody who may have infected them, so that they can do what they need to do to protect themselves and protect others. That’s clearly not happening here. And it’s good investigative journalistic work that’s forcing a lot of this information out.
But all of this is to say that you’re right: There is a tight network of transmission — people like Amy Coney Barrett, jumping from Senate office to Senate office trying to get confirmed; people like Mark Meadows, whose job it is, is to liaise with Congress all the time on legislation that’s pending; and all of the superspreader events that you just talked about, all of the travel that Donald Trump and his entourage have been taking over the course of this campaign — all the while — right? — trying to make a point about this pandemic being less than what we all know it is: a very serious public health tragedy that requires certain steps to protect yourself and protect others. And those just haven’t been followed, almost as a point of trying to bring it down.
And now we see, you know, if you — the problem with science — right? — is that if you try and mess with science, science always wins. And this is what’s happening right now. And so, we wish everyone a speedy recovery, but let’s be clear: The humanity that it takes to say that — right? — was not shown by this president or the people around him. And unfortunately, we’re seeing what the consequences are right now.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to President Trump speaking at a campaign rally in Ohio in September.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: It affects elderly people, elderly people with heart problems and other problems. If they have other problems, that’s what it really affects. That’s it. You know, in some states, thousands of people, nobody young. Below the age of 18, like nobody. They have a strong immune system. Who knows? You look — you take your hat off to the young, because they have a hell of an immune system. But it affects virtually nobody. It’s an amazing thing.
AMY GOODMAN: So, if you can respond to that, Dr. El-Sayed? And also, you know, now President Trump has canceled his campaign rallies, for example, in Wisconsin, and we’re going to talk to the reporter John Nichols in Wisconsin. He was going ahead despite the fact that the positivity rate in Wisconsin is just going up and up. But what hasn’t been canceled, yes, or maybe on the broad — yet, maybe on the broadcast now that we’re doing it’s been canceled, is this one phone conversation that President Trump was going to hold today on COVID-vulnerable seniors. Talk about President Trump. He’s a senior. He’s 74. He’s obese. Talk about what are known as comorbidities.
DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED: Yeah. So, when we talk about this virus, we know that the virus hits real people, not abstract people, and real people have other things going on. And as you get older, the number of things that may be going on with your health that affect the way that the virus overall changes your health, they increase. And this is — to use his words, he is an elderly person with other problems — right? — including hypertension, high blood pressure, and his obesity. And both of those things portend poorly.
But the bigger picture of what he said — right? — is that “it affects virtually nobody.” And the fact of the matter is, 200,000 people are not nobody. And I would imagine that the president himself would agree that he’s not nobody. But he’s seeing what the consequences of that politicization of this virus is. And now he and, unfortunately, his family are dealing with what this looks like to be infected and have to watch your whole life come to a stop. And we don’t even know what the long-term course of his illness might be. And, of course, given just the statistics and the epidemiology of what we’ve seen in the past, it does not portend very well for him.
And as I said, we wish everyone who is sick with this disease and any disease a speedy recovery. But it requires us to step back and look at the inconsistency of what he has said and the inconsistency of how him and his party have behaved around this, and then step back and say, “Well, look, if it can happen to him, too, what does that mean about how we have been dealing with this all along, and what we should have been doing for all of these people who have both become sick and died and all of these people who have lost livelihoods because of it?”
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go to a tweet of a Bloomberg reporter. This is really interesting. It was tweeted by Jennifer Jacobs. She broke the Bloomberg story on Hope Hicks. And this is very important. The White House did not reveal this. And so, they did not reveal that she was sick with COVID-19 on the plane at night Wednesday and Thursday morning, before President Trump flew to Bedminster. So, the people who met him at Bedminster, his high donors, in a closed event of about a hundred people, they did not know. The people on the plane, and so often the concern about staffers who serve him, did not know that he had been exposed to COVID. But it’s not just Hope Hicks.
Jennifer Jacobs tweets, “Some of Trump’s closest aides sensed on WEDNESDAY that the president was feeling poorly. The president seemed exhausted, I’m told. Some chalked it up to fatigue from an intense campaign schedule, others began to worry he had the coronavirus.” This was on Wednesday, as he flew in a plane, knowing that Hope Hicks, one of his closest aides, had tested positive for COVID-19. What does that mean, to fly in a plane when you know you’ve been exposed to someone with active coronavirus, not to mention may not be feeling well himself?
DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED: I mean, frankly, this is — it’s unethical behavior. I mean, the minute you think you may be a conduit for someone else’s illness, you have a responsibility to declare that. And to fly on a plane with all of the people, all of the aides who are on that plane with you, thinking that it is a safe place to be, you knowing that you potentially could be ill and making them ill, that is an unethical thing to do. But it is also in keeping with the way that this president has dealt with this virus all along.
And then he gets off the plane, has a meeting in a closed-door area, where he is potentially knowingly exposing a whole bunch of his supporters to this. I mean, all of this speaks to just an unwillingness and, frankly, a moral failure around engaging this virus for what it is, keeping the people that he has sworn to serve safe, and recognizing how the science works around transmitting this disease among people. It’s unethical. Frankly, it’s immoral. And we’re seeing what the consequences are.
AMY GOODMAN: And I wanted to ask Dr. Gandhi — in July, Herman Cain, the former Republican presidential candidate, co-chair of Black Voices for Trump, he died at the age of 74, after a month-long battle with COVID-19. So, let’s then go back a month. Cain’s last public appearance came on June 20th, when he tweeted a photo of himself at Trump’s rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, June 20th. Cain wore no mask at the event, which featured thousands of people packed tightly together. He tested positive for coronavirus 11 days after Trump’s rally, where campaign officials discouraged mask use and were filmed removing social distancing stickers inside the arena. And yet you have President Trump Tuesday night saying no one’s gotten sick at his rallies, as if he knows. Herman Cain died.
DR. MONICA GANDHI: Yeah. So, that was a terrible thing. And it was a terrible tragedy, because since we know how to prevent transmission and mitigate the impact of the illness, while we’re waiting for a vaccine, all of those principles should be in play. So, they’re social distancing, they’re hand hygiene, they’re ventilation if you can, and they’re universal masking. So, since none of that was at play, then an older man who was his supporter did get sick at his rally and subsequently died, which is the worst part about this, that people die. And so, I think that was a tragedy.
And so, now we have another situation where people could get very sick, because they’re older, they are — have comorbidities, and people weren’t being told that people are at risk, and then they’re in close quarters, and then there’s no masks.
So, I am going to — we’re all going to be watching with concern how many people get tested, how many people get appropriate contact tracing, and how people are treated now. And it’s going to be — you know, I would not — I would absolutely not hold this debate on October 15th, the next debate. That would not be right. And because it was a town hall, it was with others. He may not be infectious by then, but it’s still good practice to not — there needs to be a lot of work right now just focused on the illness.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you, Dr. Monica Gandhi, professor of medicine at UCSF, University of California, San Francisco, and San Francisco General Hospital, and Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, former director of the Detroit Health Department, author of the new book Healing Politics: A Doctor’s Journey into the Heart of Our Political Epidemic.
When we come back, we’ll be joined by Naomi Klein — she’s in British Colombia — and also John Nichols, who’s in Wisconsin, positivity rate going up, about how this news will impact the presidential race, also talk about the line of succession. Do you know who’s in line, if a president cannot perform their functions, from president to vice president to House speaker — in this case, Nancy Pelosi — to Senator Chuck Grassley? Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-10-02--Trump Tests Positive for COVID-19 After Months of Downplaying Virus & Mocking Biden for Wearing Mask

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
President Donald Trump has announced he and first lady Melania Trump have tested positive for COVID-19 .
Just before 1 a.m. Eastern Time Friday , Trump tweeted , “ Tonight , @ FLOTUS and I tested positive for COVID-19 .
We will begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately .
We will get through this TOGETHER !
” Trump wrote .
For months , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ pandemic , which has killed over 208,000 Americans .
CNN reports Joe Biden is being tested for coronavirus this morning , over fears that Trump may have infected him at Tuesday ’ s debate , where the candidates stood about 10 feet apart not wearing masks .
During the debate , Trump mocked Biden for wearing masks .
AMY GOODMAN : Trump ’ s announcement early Friday that he has COVID-19 came hours after Bloomberg News reported that Hope Hicks , one of Trump ’ s closest and longtime advisers , became ill @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in Duluth , Minnesota , and had to be quarantined aboard Air Force One on the return flight to Washington .
Hicks went on to test positive for coronavirus early on Thursday , though the White House did not report her illness .
A number of reporters who were on her flight , on the Air Force One flight , say no one has reached out to them to perform contact tracing or to inform them of their risk of COVID-19 .
On Thursday afternoon , President Trump flew to his golf resort @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a campaign fundraiser , where he delivered a speech while wearing no mask , coming in close contact with scores of staffers and campaign supporters and major donors .
Trump ’ s positive result has raised concerns about the line of succession .
The White House has just announced Vice President Mike Pence and his wife , Karen Pence , have both tested negative .
Pence had met with Trump at a White House Coronavirus Task Force briefing on Monday , but sometimes it takes days before a person tests positive .
President @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has elevated blood pressure , he ’ s over the threshold for obesity — three factors linked to higher morbidity and mortality among COVID-19 patients .
We ’ re going to begin today ’ s show with two doctors .
Dr. Abdul El-Sayed is a physician , an epidemiologist , former director of the Detroit Health Department and author of the book Healing Politics : A Doctor ’ s Journey into the Heart of Our Political Epidemic .
And we ’ re joined in San Francisco by Dr. Monica Gandhi , an infectious @ @ @ @ @ @ @ associate division chief of the Division of HIV , Infectious Diseases , and Global Medicine at UCSF , San Francisco General Hospital .
We welcome you both to Democracy Now !
Dr. Monica Gandhi , let ’ s begin with you .
You are known as one of the country ’ s leading mask experts .
Start off by responding to this news that both the president and his wife , the first lady , have tested positive for COVID and are going into 14 days of quarantine .
DR. MONICA GANDHI : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ news , my biggest concern was that this particular president and many around him had not been following basic public health guidelines that would prevent acquisition of COVID-19 virus , so I was waiting for this to happen .
And what concerns me is that this particular week has been really heavy with the campaigning and him being around a lot of people , and then he yelled nonstop at another candidate for 90 minutes on Tuesday in an indoor space without a mask , and so I ’ m worried about the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ needs to happen now .
So , public health principles have to be followed to prevent the acquisition of the disease .
AMY GOODMAN : So , let ’ s talk about the tick tock , as they say , not the app , but the tick tock of how this all went down and how we know .
When staffers test positive at the White House , sometimes the White House announces it .
This time , that ’ s not how it went down .
You had the isolation of Hope @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s closest aides , in the Air Force One plane coming back from the Duluth rally .
Many reporters did not know this was the case .
They were not told the next day that she had been sick in the plane .
She tested positive .
And then , apparently , the press secretary who was slated to fly with President Trump to Bedminster , his golf resort , for a fundraiser yesterday , on Thursday , she didn ’ t go .
She knew of Hope Hicks ’ positive COVID test @ @ @ @ @ @ @ briefing without a mask and getting in heated debates with reporters in the White House Press Briefing Room .
Still , most people did not know .
And then the reporters , learning about Hope Hicks , who had been on the Air Force One plane , learning in the media , not from the White House , not from contact tracers , that they might have been exposed , not only to Hope Hicks , because , we have to be clear here , while she has tested positive , so has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Can you explain how this works ?
We actually don ’ t know who possibly is the superspreader or if there are a number of people at the White House , but these are very close quarters there .
DR. MONICA GANDHI : Yes .
The concern about what you just laid out is this is not at all how it ’ s supposed to go .
So , if someone feels symptomatic or if someone ’ s been at risk , there has to be an immediate contact tracing episode , where @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they ’ re doing and we figure out how to isolate people from each other .
So , the fact that all these people have been put at risk — so , Hope Hicks is the first example of someone that if she felt ill on Wednesday , there are people between Wednesday and when we got the news late last night , early this morning , that should have been informed that she was feeling ill , and then , beyond that , all those people on the plane .
Air Force @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was a lot of people in both Minnesota and New Jersey that were in contact with everyone .
This is not how it ’ s supposed to go .
This is actually not how it ’ s supposed to go .
So , we can ’ t be above rules of contact tracing , because the reason we do this is that we know to isolate the people who have it — the correct word is “ isolate , ” so that means President Trump is not quarantining , he ’ s actually @ @ @ @ @ @ @ — and then quarantine people who have been around them , meaning they have to stay way from everyone just in case they get it .
So , anyone who ’ s been out is now exposed — this person , this person , this person — and this is not how an ordinary citizen would have been allowed to go about their business .
So , yeah , it ’ s going to be hard .
AMY GOODMAN : So , Dr. Gandhi , talk about how you found out late last @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , it was about 1:00 in the morning in New York ; you ’ re in California — where you were and also about your latest study around masks .
We just recently had you on because you ’ re known as the mask expert .
The significance of this , when you hear the debate with Joe Biden on Tuesday night with President Trump once again mocking him for wearing a mask ?
DR. MONICA GANDHI : Yes .
It is actually this mask issue that is really concerning me , right @ @ @ @ @ @ @ probably been — I just know , personally , I ’ ve seen this president twice , maybe thrice , in public with a mask .
And that footage can be played as much as you want , but it ’ s the same footage .
It ’ s very rare .
And then , beyond that , there is this devastating mockery of the concept of one of the most important pillars of pandemic control , I think , which is facial masking .
And so , what we ’ ve been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ prospective that we published is — on masking , is this idea that we wanted to look at mask mandates across the United States in various counties and the severity of illness before and after mask mandates .
And mask mandates are totally variable .
We didn ’ t have a national mask mandate , which almost every other country did .
Instead , one county would do a mask mandate , depending on their politics and a surge in cases , and then another would do it , depending on their politics @ @ @ @ @ @ @ national blanket mask mandate .
And what this study shows is that after mask mandates , the severity of disease in 34 % of the counties around this country went down massively .
And the reason that ’ s important is , our theory is that the inoculum , or the amount of virus you get in , is related to your severity of illness .
So , showing that decrease in severity of illness is very hopeful .
The issue with the president is , like you mentioned , he has the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , but he has obesity , and he has — and he ’ s elderly .
And those two factors together put him at risk .
And then so does possibly the viral inoculum , that he has not been putting something that would protect him , let alone protect other people .
And then Hope Hicks being symptomatic , there ’ s data that someone who ’ s symptomatic has a higher viral load , so she may have exposed him to more .
So , all of this , let ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ terms of his degree of illness .
He ’ ll get great care , but these are very concerning features for him not protecting himself and then absolutely not protecting others around him .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
President Donald Trump has announced he and first lady Melania Trump have tested positive for COVID-19. Just before 1 a.m. Eastern Time Friday, Trump tweeted, “Tonight, @FLOTUS and I tested positive for COVID-19. We will begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately. We will get through this TOGETHER!” Trump wrote. For months, Trump has downplayed the severity of the pandemic, which has killed over 208,000 Americans.
CNN reports Joe Biden is being tested for coronavirus this morning, over fears that Trump may have infected him at Tuesday’s debate, where the candidates stood about 10 feet apart not wearing masks. During the debate, Trump mocked Biden for wearing masks.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I don’t have — I don’t wear masks like him. Every time you see him, he’s got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from me, and he shows up with the biggest mask I’ve ever seen.
AMY GOODMAN: Trump’s announcement early Friday that he has COVID-19 came hours after Bloomberg News reported that Hope Hicks, one of Trump’s closest and longtime advisers, became ill during Trump’s Wednesday night rally in Duluth, Minnesota, and had to be quarantined aboard Air Force One on the return flight to Washington. Hicks went on to test positive for coronavirus early on Thursday, though the White House did not report her illness. A number of reporters who were on her flight, on the Air Force One flight, say no one has reached out to them to perform contact tracing or to inform them of their risk of COVID-19.
On Thursday afternoon, President Trump flew to his golf resort in Bedminster, New Jersey, for a campaign fundraiser, where he delivered a speech while wearing no mask, coming in close contact with scores of staffers and campaign supporters and major donors.
Trump’s positive result has raised concerns about the line of succession. The White House has just announced Vice President Mike Pence and his wife, Karen Pence, have both tested negative. Pence had met with Trump at a White House Coronavirus Task Force briefing on Monday, but sometimes it takes days before a person tests positive.
President Trump is 74 years old, he has elevated blood pressure, he’s over the threshold for obesity — three factors linked to higher morbidity and mortality among COVID-19 patients.
We’re going to begin today’s show with two doctors. Dr. Abdul El-Sayed is a physician, an epidemiologist, former director of the Detroit Health Department and author of the book Healing Politics: A Doctor’s Journey into the Heart of Our Political Epidemic. And we’re joined in San Francisco by Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease specialist and professor of medicine and associate division chief of the Division of HIV, Infectious Diseases, and Global Medicine at UCSF, San Francisco General Hospital.
We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Dr. Monica Gandhi, let’s begin with you. You are known as one of the country’s leading mask experts. Start off by responding to this news that both the president and his wife, the first lady, have tested positive for COVID and are going into 14 days of quarantine.
DR. MONICA GANDHI: Yeah, when I first heard this news, my biggest concern was that this particular president and many around him had not been following basic public health guidelines that would prevent acquisition of COVID-19 virus, so I was waiting for this to happen. And what concerns me is that this particular week has been really heavy with the campaigning and him being around a lot of people, and then he yelled nonstop at another candidate for 90 minutes on Tuesday in an indoor space without a mask, and so I’m worried about the impact on all this contact tracing that needs to happen now. So, public health principles have to be followed to prevent the acquisition of the disease.
AMY GOODMAN: So, let’s talk about the tick tock, as they say, not the app, but the tick tock of how this all went down and how we know. When staffers test positive at the White House, sometimes the White House announces it. This time, that’s not how it went down.
You had the isolation of Hope Hicks, one of President Trump’s closest aides, in the Air Force One plane coming back from the Duluth rally. Many reporters did not know this was the case. They were not told the next day that she had been sick in the plane. She tested positive.
And then, apparently, the press secretary who was slated to fly with President Trump to Bedminster, his golf resort, for a fundraiser yesterday, on Thursday, she didn’t go. She knew of Hope Hicks’ positive COVID test. But she did hold a press briefing without a mask and getting in heated debates with reporters in the White House Press Briefing Room. Still, most people did not know.
And then the reporters, learning about Hope Hicks, who had been on the Air Force One plane, learning in the media, not from the White House, not from contact tracers, that they might have been exposed, not only to Hope Hicks, because, we have to be clear here, while she has tested positive, so has the president and the first lady.
Can you explain how this works? We actually don’t know who possibly is the superspreader or if there are a number of people at the White House, but these are very close quarters there.
DR. MONICA GANDHI: Yes. The concern about what you just laid out is this is not at all how it’s supposed to go. So, if someone feels symptomatic or if someone’s been at risk, there has to be an immediate contact tracing episode, where everyone around this person stops doing what they’re doing and we figure out how to isolate people from each other. So, the fact that all these people have been put at risk — so, Hope Hicks is the first example of someone that if she felt ill on Wednesday, there are people between Wednesday and when we got the news late last night, early this morning, that should have been informed that she was feeling ill, and then, beyond that, all those people on the plane. Air Force One is full of people. There was a lot of people in both Minnesota and New Jersey that were in contact with everyone. This is not how it’s supposed to go. This is actually not how it’s supposed to go.
So, we can’t be above rules of contact tracing, because the reason we do this is that we know to isolate the people who have it — the correct word is “isolate,” so that means President Trump is not quarantining, he’s actually isolating, because he has the infection — and then quarantine people who have been around them, meaning they have to stay way from everyone just in case they get it. So, anyone who’s been out is now exposed — this person, this person, this person — and this is not how an ordinary citizen would have been allowed to go about their business. So, yeah, it’s going to be hard.
AMY GOODMAN: So, Dr. Gandhi, talk about how you found out late last night — I mean, our time, it was about 1:00 in the morning in New York; you’re in California — where you were and also about your latest study around masks. We just recently had you on because you’re known as the mask expert. The significance of this, when you hear the debate with Joe Biden on Tuesday night with President Trump once again mocking him for wearing a mask?
DR. MONICA GANDHI: Yes. It is actually this mask issue that is really concerning me, right? Because I think there’s probably been — I just know, personally, I’ve seen this president twice, maybe thrice, in public with a mask. And that footage can be played as much as you want, but it’s the same footage. It’s very rare. And then, beyond that, there is this devastating mockery of the concept of one of the most important pillars of pandemic control, I think, which is facial masking.
And so, what we’ve been looking at as a follow-up to a prospective that we published is — on masking, is this idea that we wanted to look at mask mandates across the United States in various counties and the severity of illness before and after mask mandates. And mask mandates are totally variable. We didn’t have a national mask mandate, which almost every other country did. Instead, one county would do a mask mandate, depending on their politics and a surge in cases, and then another would do it, depending on their politics and surge in cases, instead of national blanket mask mandate.
And what this study shows is that after mask mandates, the severity of disease in 34% of the counties around this country went down massively. And the reason that’s important is, our theory is that the inoculum, or the amount of virus you get in, is related to your severity of illness. So, showing that decrease in severity of illness is very hopeful.
The issue with the president is, like you mentioned, he has the hypertension, which I think is mild, but he has obesity, and he has — and he’s elderly. And those two factors together put him at risk. And then so does possibly the viral inoculum, that he has not been putting something that would protect him, let alone protect other people. And then Hope Hicks being symptomatic, there’s data that someone who’s symptomatic has a higher viral load, so she may have exposed him to more. So, all of this, let’s see how it plays out in terms of his degree of illness. He’ll get great care, but these are very concerning features for him not protecting himself and then absolutely not protecting others around him.


democracynow--2020-10-02--Headlines for October  2, 2020

Headlines for October  2, 2020

Trump ’ s announcement early Friday that he has COVID-19 came only after Bloomberg News reported that Hope Hicks , one of Trump ’ s closest advisers , became ill during Trump ’ s Wednesday night rally in Duluth , Minnesota , and had to be quarantined aboard Air Force One on the return flight to Washington .
Hicks went on to test positive for coronavirus early on Thursday , though the White House did not report her illness .
A number of reporters who were with Hicks and the president on the flight say no one from the White @ @ @ @ @ @ @ contact tracing or to inform them of their risk of COVID-19 .
One HuffPost reporter was visibly shaken after learning of Hicks ’ s positive test result from news reports .
On Thursday afternoon , President Trump flew to his golf resort in Bedminster , New Jersey , for a campaign fundraiser where he delivered a speech while wearing no mask , coming in close contact with dozens of staffers and campaign supporters .
The New York Times ’ s Maggie Haberman reports aides who would normally travel with the president did not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ already knew about Hope Hicks ’ s positive test result .
Among those aides was White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany , who made no mention of Hicks ’ s illness — or her recent close contact with Hicks — as she spoke to reporters for 25 minutes from the White House Press Briefing Room podium while wearing no mask .

Trump’s announcement early Friday that he has COVID-19 came only after Bloomberg News reported that Hope Hicks, one of Trump’s closest advisers, became ill during Trump’s Wednesday night rally in Duluth, Minnesota, and had to be quarantined aboard Air Force One on the return flight to Washington. Hicks went on to test positive for coronavirus early on Thursday, though the White House did not report her illness. A number of reporters who were with Hicks and the president on the flight say no one from the White House reached out to them to perform contact tracing or to inform them of their risk of COVID-19. One HuffPost reporter was visibly shaken after learning of Hicks’s positive test result from news reports.
On Thursday afternoon, President Trump flew to his golf resort in Bedminster, New Jersey, for a campaign fundraiser where he delivered a speech while wearing no mask, coming in close contact with dozens of staffers and campaign supporters. The New York Times’s Maggie Haberman reports aides who would normally travel with the president did not go with him to Bedminster because they already knew about Hope Hicks’s positive test result. Among those aides was White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany, who made no mention of Hicks’s illness — or her recent close contact with Hicks — as she spoke to reporters for 25 minutes from the White House Press Briefing Room podium while wearing no mask.


democracynow--2020-10-05--"Black Women's Lives Matter": Breonna Taylor's Family Demands a Special Prosecutor to Reopen Case

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Kentucky ’ s attorney general has been forced to comply with a judge ’ s order to release 15 hours of audiotapes from the disputed grand jury proceedings into the police killing of Breonna Taylor , the 26-year-old African American Louisville resident who was shot to death last March inside her own home by white police officers executing a no-knock warrant .
The tapes were filed Friday @ @ @ @ @ @ @ deadline .
They confirm Republican Attorney General Daniel Cameron did not ask jurors to consider homicide charges for the white police officers who fired 32 times into Taylor ’ s apartment , striking her with six bullets .
Cameron has claimed a witness heard officers announce themselves before breaking down Breonna Taylor ’ s front door .
That witness now says he only heard the police identify themselves quietly and in passing .
Meanwhile , lawyers for Taylor ’ s family say a dozen other witnesses did not hear police announce themselves .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ , testified he rushed out of bed , grabbed his handgun on the night of the fatal raid , fearing a home invasion after he heard loud and repeated banging on Taylor ’ s front door .
Listen closely to these recordings in the grand jury .
The audio is hard to understand .
AMY GOODMAN : That ’ s Breonna Taylor ’ s boyfriend , Kenneth Walker , testifying to the grand jury in her case .
He said , “ I was scared to death .
So , she says there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
She ’ s yelling at the top of her lungs , and I am , too , at this point , 'Who is it ? '
No answer , no response , no anything .
So , we ’ re like , 'What the heck ? '
” Walker said .
This comes as a second anonymous member of the grand jury has now asked a judge to allow them to speak publicly about the case .
Legal analysts have raised concerns the instructions from prosecutors were not included in the grand @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Kentucky Attorney General Cameron ’ s office said in a statement , quote , “ Juror deliberations and prosecutor recommendations and statements were not recorded , as they are not evidence.
” Now Breonna Taylor ’ s family is calling on Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear to appoint a new special prosecutor to reopen the case , saying in a statement , quote , “ Cameron did not serve as an unbiased prosecutor in this case and intentionally did not present charges to the grand jury that would have pursued justice for Ms. @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to Tallahassee , Florida , to speak with civil rights attorney Ben Crump , representing the family of Breonna Taylor .
Ben Crump , welcome back to Democracy Now !
The significance of the recordings that were released and were not released , and what your demand is , the demand of the family of Breonna Taylor ?
BENJAMIN CRUMP : Yes , ma ’ am .
It ’ s so good to be with you , Amy .
And thank you for covering these important matters , because Breonna Taylor ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ lives matter in America , and we have to continue to remind America of that .
The grand jury recordings that were released were just as we assumed they were , that nobody was presenting evidence on behalf of Breonna Taylor in that grand jury proceeding .
In fact , there is one exchange where you hear the prosecutors — after they ’ ve offered just a snippet of a bodycam video , a grand juror who sounds like a Black woman says , “ Well , do we get to see the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And the prosecutor says that , “ Well , ma ’ am , we have 15 hours of bodycam video , and that would take too much time , ” of which , Amy , she retorts back , “ We have the time.
” And so , you know , when you listen to the recordings , it ’ s as if the prosecutors are trying to justify the unjustifiable killing of Breonna Taylor , this Black woman , in the sanctity of her own apartment , after they illegally , based @ @ @ @ @ @ @ front door , executing this no-knock warrant .
And then you have the jurors , who seem to be advocating for evidence for Breonna Taylor far more than the prosecutors are doing .
So , the family of Breonna Taylor is demanding that a new grand jury be convened and you have an unbiased prosecutor present the evidence to the grand jury , so that Breonna may have her due process , that her family can have their day in court , and that she could have a chance at achieving justice for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of this Black woman .
AMY GOODMAN : The significance of none of these three white police officers being charged with Breonna Taylor ’ s death ?
Again , the only one charged , Brett Hankison , who was indicted on three counts of wanton endangerment , ultimately was charged only with shooting into a neighbor ’ s apartment .
And if , Ben , you can also talk about the fact that Hankison and the others , again , were not charged in this case ?
BENJAMIN CRUMP : Certainly , Amy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the face to Breonna ’ s mother and her family .
When you actually make recommendations — Daniel Cameron , the Kentucky Attorney General ’ s Office , made recommendations , and the grand jury does what the prosecutors ask .
You know , 99.9 % of the time , whatever the DA wants the grand jury to do , they do .
You can get an indictment on a ham sandwich , it ’ s often been said , if the prosecutor wants it .
So , when he said that we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that went into the walls of Breonna ’ s white neighbors , but not any wanton endangerment for the bullets that went in Breonna ’ s Black neighbors who lived above her , or not even the bullets that went into Breonna ’ s apartment for wanton endangerment , and , worst of all , Amy , not even wanton murder or homicide or manslaughter or anything for the bullets that mutilated Breonna Taylor ’ s body while she was in her underwear .
And so — AMY GOODMAN : Ben Crump , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this when it was announced , the $ 12 million settlement , because I remember you saying , “ Remember , even second-degree manslaughter.
” BENJAMIN CRUMP : Yeah , because it was — Amy , it was clearly reckless , and blindly , how these police officers were shooting in this apartment , I mean , executing this no-knock warrant .
We have to remember , Amy , he never presented evidence about the lie that was in the probable cause affidavit which helped form the basis of why the judge signed @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , which was they said that Breonna Taylor had suspicious packages being delivered to her apartment per the United States postal inspector .
Well , the postal inspector then came out and said he never made such a statement , and that wasn ’ t true .
Well , Daniel Cameron and his office never presented that to the grand jury .
So , it begged the question , for me : What did they present to the grand jury ?
Now we know with these recordings .
And we know , Amy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ manslaughter charges or homicide charges as the law clearly suggests they would have been well reasoned to do so .
AMY GOODMAN : Before we go , what does it mean to be calling on the governor , Beshear , to reopen this and appoint a second second prosecutor ?
How does that happen ?
BENJAMIN CRUMP : Well , to be exact , we now know the governor does not have that authority .
It ’ s the attorney general .
And a governor can only try to use his bully pulpit @ @ @ @ @ @ @ doing that to try to say it wasn ’ t right , what happened to Breonna Taylor .
The power lies within Daniel Cameron , the Kentucky attorney general , so we want to make sure that ’ s clear .
We want to put the ire of our frustration exactly where it needs to be : his office and the county attorney , who is [ Tom ] Wine .
Those are the two men who can give Breonna justice .
And apparently , with the exception of the Department of Justice @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that will determine whether this Black woman even has due process of the law to have her day in court .
So we want to make sure everybody continues to say her name and tell Daniel Cameron and County Attorney Wine we need to reconvene a new grand jury and have an independent prosecutor , who is not trying to advocate for the police but is presenting the evidence in an unbiased manner , because Breonna Taylor ’ s life matters .
AMY GOODMAN : Ben Crump , we want to thank you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ civil rights attorney .
We ’ re going to continue with this after break , and we ’ re going to speak with the first African American state legislator in Kentucky .
Stay with us .
AMY GOODMAN : “ Matter ” by Brittany Campbell .
This is Democracy Now !
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
For more on the Breonna Taylor case and more , we go to Louisville , Kentucky , to speak with Democratic state Representative Attica Scott .
In 2016 , she became the first African American woman @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Legislature in 20 years .
Representative Scott , last month , as you and hundreds protested in downtown Louisville , you were live-streaming when police surrounded your group .
You , your daughter and 22 others now face charges of first-degree rioting , failure to disperse and unlawful assembly , this coming as no officers were directly charged in Breonna Taylor ’ s killing .
Can you talk about this , the significance of you being charged with a felony ?
REP. ATTICA SCOTT : Yes .
And thank you so much , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ morning .
Yes , we were fighting for justice for Breonna Taylor , as we have done for more than 130 days here in Louisville , Kentucky .
And on that Thursday , September 24th , night , we were trying to get to sanctuary before the 9:00 curfew , and we were stopped by police .
In fact , they told us to turn around .
As we turned around , they yelled , “ Circle them !
Circle them !
” And I asked , “ What do you want us @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 8:58 , two minutes before curfew .
We were literally 100 feet from First Unitarian Church in District 41 , the district that I serve .
And they told us to get on the ground , and they started arresting us .
And they refused to tell us why they were arresting us .
And when we found out that we were being accused of trying to burn down the library that I represent in my district , I was in shock .
Couldn ’ t believe it .
AMY GOODMAN : And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , the case of Breonna Taylor , and the release of these audiotapes now and what you ’ re demanding ?
REP. ATTICA SCOTT : Yes .
So , we were — at the time we were protesting , it was before the grand juror was able to get the tapes released .
It was actually the week of Daniel Cameron ’ s press conference where he told us that he was going to do no justice for Breonna Taylor , there would be no justice for Breonna Taylor .
That ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so we continued our protest .
And on that Wednesday night , the night of his announcement , 127 people were arrested .
The Thursday night that we were out , we had 24 people arrested .
And then , the next day , Friday , we had more than a hundred people arrested .
We are determined to get justice for Breonna Taylor .
No law enforcement body is going to stop us from exercising our First Amendment rights and from stopping us from having civil disobedience in this city that refuses @ @ @ @ @ @ @ her family or her community .
AMY GOODMAN : What are you demanding now , as we wrap up ?
And then we ’ re going to do Part 2 to talk about what you ’ re going to be doing in the state Legislature around the killing of Breonna Taylor .
REP. ATTICA SCOTT : Yes , and thank you for that question .
As we face court tomorrow afternoon , Tuesday afternoon , we are clear that we will continue to demand justice for Breonna Taylor .
What that looks like @ @ @ @ @ @ @ said .
We need a new special prosecutor , who is independent , who is not politically motivated , who is not directly tied to Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump .
We need an independent investigator who will listen to the witnesses who lived where Breonna Taylor lived , in her apartment complex .
There are many witnesses who need to be heard , because Breonna Taylor has not received justice .
AMY GOODMAN : Attica Scott , I want to thank you for being with us .
We ’ ll do Part @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , Democratic state representative in Kentucky .
And that does it for our broadcast .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Stay safe .
Wear a mask .
Save lives .
Happy Birthday to Becca Staley !

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
Kentucky’s attorney general has been forced to comply with a judge’s order to release 15 hours of audiotapes from the disputed grand jury proceedings into the police killing of Breonna Taylor, the 26-year-old African American Louisville resident who was shot to death last March inside her own home by white police officers executing a no-knock warrant. The tapes were filed Friday just before the judge’s noon deadline. They confirm Republican Attorney General Daniel Cameron did not ask jurors to consider homicide charges for the white police officers who fired 32 times into Taylor’s apartment, striking her with six bullets.
Cameron has claimed a witness heard officers announce themselves before breaking down Breonna Taylor’s front door. That witness now says he only heard the police identify themselves quietly and in passing. Meanwhile, lawyers for Taylor’s family say a dozen other witnesses did not hear police announce themselves. Taylor’s boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, testified he rushed out of bed, grabbed his handgun on the night of the fatal raid, fearing a home invasion after he heard loud and repeated banging on Taylor’s front door.
Listen closely to these recordings in the grand jury. The audio is hard to understand.
KENNETH WALKER: I was scared to death. So, she says that there’s another knock at the door. She’s yelling at the top of her lungs, and I am, too, at this point, “Who is it?” No answer, no response, no anything. So, we’re like, “What the heck?”
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Breonna Taylor’s boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, testifying to the grand jury in her case. He said, “I was scared to death. So, she says there’s another knock at the door. She’s yelling at the top of her lungs, and I am, too, at this point, 'Who is it?' No answer, no response, no anything. So, we’re like, 'What the heck?'” Walker said.
This comes as a second anonymous member of the grand jury has now asked a judge to allow them to speak publicly about the case. Legal analysts have raised concerns the instructions from prosecutors were not included in the grand jury audio recordings that were just released. Kentucky Attorney General Cameron’s office said in a statement, quote, “Juror deliberations and prosecutor recommendations and statements were not recorded, as they are not evidence.”
Now Breonna Taylor’s family is calling on Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear to appoint a new special prosecutor to reopen the case, saying in a statement, quote, “Cameron did not serve as an unbiased prosecutor in this case and intentionally did not present charges to the grand jury that would have pursued justice for Ms. Taylor.”
For more, we go to Tallahassee, Florida, to speak with civil rights attorney Ben Crump, representing the family of Breonna Taylor.
Ben Crump, welcome back to Democracy Now! The significance of the recordings that were released and were not released, and what your demand is, the demand of the family of Breonna Taylor?
BENJAMIN CRUMP: Yes, ma’am. It’s so good to be with you, Amy. And thank you for covering these important matters, because Breonna Taylor’s life matters, Black women’s lives matter in America, and we have to continue to remind America of that.
The grand jury recordings that were released were just as we assumed they were, that nobody was presenting evidence on behalf of Breonna Taylor in that grand jury proceeding. In fact, there is one exchange where you hear the prosecutors — after they’ve offered just a snippet of a bodycam video, a grand juror who sounds like a Black woman says, “Well, do we get to see the rest of the bodycam video?” And the prosecutor says that, “Well, ma’am, we have 15 hours of bodycam video, and that would take too much time,” of which, Amy, she retorts back, “We have the time.”
And so, you know, when you listen to the recordings, it’s as if the prosecutors are trying to justify the unjustifiable killing of Breonna Taylor, this Black woman, in the sanctity of her own apartment, after they illegally, based on a lie, busted open her front door, executing this no-knock warrant. And then you have the jurors, who seem to be advocating for evidence for Breonna Taylor far more than the prosecutors are doing.
So, the family of Breonna Taylor is demanding that a new grand jury be convened and you have an unbiased prosecutor present the evidence to the grand jury, so that Breonna may have her due process, that her family can have their day in court, and that she could have a chance at achieving justice for this unjustifiable, unnecessary and senseless killing of this Black woman.
AMY GOODMAN: The significance of none of these three white police officers being charged with Breonna Taylor’s death? Again, the only one charged, Brett Hankison, who was indicted on three counts of wanton endangerment, ultimately was charged only with shooting into a neighbor’s apartment. And if, Ben, you can also talk about the fact that Hankison and the others, again, were not charged in this case?
BENJAMIN CRUMP: Certainly, Amy. It’s a slap in the face to Breonna’s mother and her family. When you actually make recommendations — Daniel Cameron, the Kentucky Attorney General’s Office, made recommendations, and the grand jury does what the prosecutors ask. You know, 99.9% of the time, whatever the DA wants the grand jury to do, they do. You can get an indictment on a ham sandwich, it’s often been said, if the prosecutor wants it.
So, when he said that we want wanton endangerment charges for the bullets that went into the walls of Breonna’s white neighbors, but not any wanton endangerment for the bullets that went in Breonna’s Black neighbors who lived above her, or not even the bullets that went into Breonna’s apartment for wanton endangerment, and, worst of all, Amy, not even wanton murder or homicide or manslaughter or anything for the bullets that mutilated Breonna Taylor’s body while she was in her underwear. And so —
AMY GOODMAN: Ben Crump, you seemed to have an inkling of this when it was announced, the $12 million settlement, because I remember you saying, “Remember, even second-degree manslaughter.”
BENJAMIN CRUMP: Yeah, because it was — Amy, it was clearly reckless, and blindly, how these police officers were shooting in this apartment, I mean, executing this no-knock warrant. We have to remember, Amy, he never presented evidence about the lie that was in the probable cause affidavit which helped form the basis of why the judge signed the no-knock warrant in the first place, which was they said that Breonna Taylor had suspicious packages being delivered to her apartment per the United States postal inspector. Well, the postal inspector then came out and said he never made such a statement, and that wasn’t true. Well, Daniel Cameron and his office never presented that to the grand jury.
So, it begged the question, for me: What did they present to the grand jury? Now we know with these recordings. And we know, Amy, they did not put forth second-degree manslaughter charges or homicide charges as the law clearly suggests they would have been well reasoned to do so.
AMY GOODMAN: Before we go, what does it mean to be calling on the governor, Beshear, to reopen this and appoint a second second prosecutor? How does that happen?
BENJAMIN CRUMP: Well, to be exact, we now know the governor does not have that authority. It’s the attorney general. And a governor can only try to use his bully pulpit. And I think he has been doing that to try to say it wasn’t right, what happened to Breonna Taylor.
The power lies within Daniel Cameron, the Kentucky attorney general, so we want to make sure that’s clear. We want to put the ire of our frustration exactly where it needs to be: his office and the county attorney, who is [Tom] Wine. Those are the two men who can give Breonna justice. And apparently, with the exception of the Department of Justice, they are the only two individuals that will determine whether this Black woman even has due process of the law to have her day in court.
So we want to make sure everybody continues to say her name and tell Daniel Cameron and County Attorney Wine we need to reconvene a new grand jury and have an independent prosecutor, who is not trying to advocate for the police but is presenting the evidence in an unbiased manner, because Breonna Taylor’s life matters.
AMY GOODMAN: Ben Crump, we want to thank you so much for being with us, civil rights attorney. We’re going to continue with this after break, and we’re going to speak with the first African American state legislator in Kentucky. Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: “Matter” by Brittany Campbell. This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman. For more on the Breonna Taylor case and more, we go to Louisville, Kentucky, to speak with Democratic state Representative Attica Scott. In 2016, she became the first African American woman to serve in Kentucky’s state Legislature in 20 years.
Representative Scott, last month, as you and hundreds protested in downtown Louisville, you were live-streaming when police surrounded your group. You, your daughter and 22 others now face charges of first-degree rioting, failure to disperse and unlawful assembly, this coming as no officers were directly charged in Breonna Taylor’s killing. Can you talk about this, the significance of you being charged with a felony?
REP. ATTICA SCOTT: Yes. And thank you so much, Amy, for having me on this morning.
Yes, we were fighting for justice for Breonna Taylor, as we have done for more than 130 days here in Louisville, Kentucky. And on that Thursday, September 24th, night, we were trying to get to sanctuary before the 9:00 curfew, and we were stopped by police. In fact, they told us to turn around. As we turned around, they yelled, “Circle them! Circle them!” And I asked, “What do you want us to do?” And it was 8:58, two minutes before curfew. We were literally 100 feet from First Unitarian Church in District 41, the district that I serve.
And they told us to get on the ground, and they started arresting us. And they refused to tell us why they were arresting us. And when we found out that we were being accused of trying to burn down the library that I represent in my district, I was in shock. Couldn’t believe it.
AMY GOODMAN: And the significance of why you were protesting, the case of Breonna Taylor, and the release of these audiotapes now and what you’re demanding?
REP. ATTICA SCOTT: Yes. So, we were — at the time we were protesting, it was before the grand juror was able to get the tapes released. It was actually the week of Daniel Cameron’s press conference where he told us that he was going to do no justice for Breonna Taylor, there would be no justice for Breonna Taylor. That’s basically what he told us. And so we continued our protest.
And on that Wednesday night, the night of his announcement, 127 people were arrested. The Thursday night that we were out, we had 24 people arrested. And then, the next day, Friday, we had more than a hundred people arrested.
We are determined to get justice for Breonna Taylor. No law enforcement body is going to stop us from exercising our First Amendment rights and from stopping us from having civil disobedience in this city that refuses to have justice for Breonna Taylor, her family or her community.
AMY GOODMAN: What are you demanding now, as we wrap up? And then we’re going to do Part 2 to talk about what you’re going to be doing in the state Legislature around the killing of Breonna Taylor.
REP. ATTICA SCOTT: Yes, and thank you for that question. As we face court tomorrow afternoon, Tuesday afternoon, we are clear that we will continue to demand justice for Breonna Taylor. What that looks like right now is exactly what attorney Crump said. We need a new special prosecutor, who is independent, who is not politically motivated, who is not directly tied to Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump. We need an independent investigator who will listen to the witnesses who lived where Breonna Taylor lived, in her apartment complex. There are many witnesses who need to be heard, because Breonna Taylor has not received justice.
AMY GOODMAN: Attica Scott, I want to thank you for being with us. We’ll do Part 2 and post it online at democracynow.org, Democratic state representative in Kentucky.
And that does it for our broadcast. I’m Amy Goodman. Stay safe. Wear a mask. Save lives. Happy Birthday to Becca Staley!