democracynow--2020-11-19--Trump's "Multipronged Attack Against Iran" Ramps Up with New Sanctions, Possible Bombing Plans

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Nermeen Shaikh , as we turn now to look at the U.S. relationship with Iran in the twilight of Donald Trump ’ s presidency .
The New York Times reported this week President Trump had inquired about bombing Iran ’ s main nuclear site in the coming weeks .
Trump raised the issue at a meeting last Thursday with Vice President Mike Pence , Secretary of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , including Christopher Miller , the new acting defense secretary .
The Times reports the advisers attempted to dissuade the president , warning a strike could escalate into a broader conflict .
But officials told the Times that Trump may still be looking for ways to attack Iran or Iranian assets before his term ends .
Thursday ’ s meeting was held a day after international inspectors reported Iran ’ s low-enriched uranium stockpile is growing again , following Trump ’ s abandonment of the 2015 Iran nuclear deal .
Iran now has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ enriched uranium permitted under the deal .
President-elect Joe Biden has said he will rejoin the Iran nuclear deal once in office .
On Wednesday , Iran ’ s Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif said Iran would fully comply with the deal if Biden lifts sanctions .
Well , for more , we ’ re joined by Narges Bajoghli , professor of Middle East studies at Johns Hopkins University , author of Iran Reframed : Anxieties of Power in the Islamic Republic .
When you read that piece in the Times , Professor @ @ @ @ @ @ @ bombing Iran before he leaves office , your response ?
NARGES BAJOGHLI : So , I found that piece to be — you know , it raises a ton of questions for me .
It was interesting , because the next day after that Times report , Fox News actually reported that it wasn ’ t Trump who requested those plans , but it was actually Robert O ’ Brien , his national security adviser , who requested it from his staff .
So , it seems to be that right now we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ story .
What we do know is that President Trump is actually the first president in decades who hasn ’ t started a new war , and he has run on the fact that he does not — you know , he ’ s against these wars , these foreign interventions in the Middle East .
What he ’ s going to do in the next two months is unclear so far , especially given his loss and how he ’ s responding to it , for the presidential election .
Yet we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that these reports are coming out , Secretary Pompeo and his State Department are continuing to implement new sanctions on Iran on a weekly basis — the State Department , as well as the Department of Treasury .
They just put on new sanctions two days ago .
There seems to be reports that they will be designating the Houthis in Yemen as foreign terrorist organizations .
They are , of course , closely aligned with Iran .
There are also many reports of the harsh sanctions against Syria and Iran , which @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a part of the larger maximum-pressure campaign of the Trump administration vis-à-vis Iran .
And just this week , Iran — the Iranian government confirmed that there were cyberattacks against the Iranian national gas company .
As the cold weather is starting to set in in Iran for the winter , there are now worries across Iran that these cyberattacks might be meant to cause maximum harm in a short period of time and to further sort of — on top of the pandemic and the increased sanctions on Iran ’ s economy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ things that the Trump administration is trying to do to further increase pressure on the Iranian people and , by extension , on the Iranian regime .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Well , Narges Bajoghli , if you could talk about how you expect things might change under a Biden-Harris administration , not just with respect to the nuclear agreement , but even with respect — sorry , to the nuclear agreement , whether you think either the U.S. or Iran will want to negotiate the terms of that agreement before the U.S. rejoins @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be negotiated , as I think some in Iran have suggested , only after presidential elections in Iran are due to be held next year in the middle of the year ?
NARGES BAJOGHLI : So , yes , there are presidential elections coming up in Iran in the summer of 2021 .
So , there is a very short time period and window left at this moment between when the Biden administration comes into office , is sworn in , and the presidential elections in Iran .
One of the things that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ will win those presidential elections in Iran , whether it will continue to be folks from the moderate reformist side of the table who have been wanting to engage with the West , or whether it will be more hardliners who have taken a very harsh stance against the JCPOA , the Iran deal , and especially the ways in which the Trump administration pulled out and the sanctions that have been put back in place .
So , actually , what the Biden administration does in these next few months is very @ @ @ @ @ @ @ look like on a national level in Iran and who might be the president sort of coming in .
As it stands today , within this past week , both President Rouhani of Iran , the Foreign Minister Javad Zarif and the Speaker of Parliament Ghalibaf have all made statements that have indicated their openness to reengaging with the United States on a certain level .
Zarif , just two days ago , came out and said that if the Biden administration comes back to U.N .
Resolution 2231 , that they will @ @ @ @ @ @ @ will come back to its promises in the JCPOA .
So , compliance for compliance is what the Iranians are arguing for .
As far as a new deal or something that would be more than the JCPOA , that is something that so far Iran is saying that it will not consider as long as these sanctions are on and as long as the United States does not go back to its promises in the JCPOA .
We also don ’ t know who will be within the foreign policy team in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so it ’ s difficult to say what the Biden-Harris team will do going forward , until it becomes a little bit clearer who they bring in for their foreign policy , and especially their Iran team .
AMY GOODMAN : I mean , it ’ s very interesting that at the same time President Trump might be threatening war with Iran — and some might say it ’ s already war when you have the level of sanctions he has imposed on Iran at a time of the COVID devastation , perhaps @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s ravaging the United States because he hasn ’ t gotten a handle on it — but when you have him threatening war , yet at the same time saying that he would pull thousands of troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan , which has shaken the national security establishment , Democrat and Republican , in the United States .
Can you make sense of this ?
NARGES BAJOGHLI : Yeah , you know , I appreciate that question , Amy , because , actually , I think it ’ s really @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from the Trump administration towards Iran is something — I mean , even Secretary Pompeo , just yesterday , came out with a very large statement that he released where he was defending maximum pressure , where , by all means , it ’ s failed to get to the policies that they were trying to get to .
But regardless , maximum pressure has devastated Iran ’ s economy .
Especially , it ’ s driving the middle class towards poverty .
It has also , in addition to sanctions , involved @ @ @ @ @ @ @ well as media warfare , disinformation campaigns , funding for different opposition groups .
So , this is pretty much a war , by any means , against Iran .
It hasn ’ t gone into hot confrontation with Iran directly yet , although there is confrontation in different areas , in Syria and Iraq and within Yemen and Saudi Arabia .
And so , this really is a multipronged attack against Iran .
Iran is also , at the same time — it ’ s true that the pandemic is ravaging the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ also ravaging Iran .
And in the midst of all of this , more and more sanctions are being put on the country .
So , these different narratives that are coming out about troop reduction in Afghanistan and in Iraq , and then the potential for at least plans being drawn up , whether they will be executed or not , for attacking Iran , I think part of the way to make sense of this is that there are folks within the Trump administration , from Secretary Pompeo to Elliott Abrams @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for Venezuela and Iran , and Netanyahu , who are really hoping for ways to have an excuse to further weaken Iran , because they see this as one of the last opportunities before the Biden administration comes in .
All of these different stories that we ’ re going to see coming out between now and January 20th , I think we have to keep an eye towards part of them also being an attempt to push at Iran in different ways and to see whether it will react in such a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ attack or not .
I mean , the Trump administration has said that their red line is the killing of an American .
So we have to see if these different ways in which Iran is being pressured , both in battlefields across the region , as well as in cyberattacks and others , whether these will be baits that the Iranians will take or not .
On the other hand , Iran has indicated , both from the Revolutionary Guards as well as within the government itself , that they understand that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and that they are saying that they will continue to remain patient until the Biden administration comes in .
So , right now — but in this entire sort of atmosphere , what is really dangerous , I think , is that there is a lot of potential for miscalculation on different parts of playing fields .
And this is something that we have to really wait and see what will happen in the next two months and whether it will be something that will drag into something that ’ s hotter @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we want to thank you so much for being with us , professor of Middle East studies at Johns Hopkins University , author of Iran Reframed : Anxieties of Power in the Islamic Republic .
Next up , has the Biden honeymoon stopped before it even started ?
Up next .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh, as we turn now to look at the U.S. relationship with Iran in the twilight of Donald Trump’s presidency.
The New York Times reported this week President Trump had inquired about bombing Iran’s main nuclear site in the coming weeks. Trump raised the issue at a meeting last Thursday with Vice President Mike Pence, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, top military officials, including Christopher Miller, the new acting defense secretary. The Times reports the advisers attempted to dissuade the president, warning a strike could escalate into a broader conflict. But officials told the Times that Trump may still be looking for ways to attack Iran or Iranian assets before his term ends.
Thursday’s meeting was held a day after international inspectors reported Iran’s low-enriched uranium stockpile is growing again, following Trump’s abandonment of the 2015 Iran nuclear deal. Iran now has more than 12 times the amount of enriched uranium permitted under the deal. President-elect Joe Biden has said he will rejoin the Iran nuclear deal once in office. On Wednesday, Iran’s Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif said Iran would fully comply with the deal if Biden lifts sanctions.
Well, for more, we’re joined by Narges Bajoghli, professor of Middle East studies at Johns Hopkins University, author of Iran Reframed: Anxieties of Power in the Islamic Republic.
When you read that piece in the Times, Professor Bajoghli, that President Trump is weighing bombing Iran before he leaves office, your response?
NARGES BAJOGHLI: So, I found that piece to be — you know, it raises a ton of questions for me. It was interesting, because the next day after that Times report, Fox News actually reported that it wasn’t Trump who requested those plans, but it was actually Robert O’Brien, his national security adviser, who requested it from his staff. So, it seems to be that right now we don’t actually know the full story.
What we do know is that President Trump is actually the first president in decades who hasn’t started a new war, and he has run on the fact that he does not — you know, he’s against these wars, these foreign interventions in the Middle East. What he’s going to do in the next two months is unclear so far, especially given his loss and how he’s responding to it, for the presidential election.
Yet we also know that at the same time that these reports are coming out, Secretary Pompeo and his State Department are continuing to implement new sanctions on Iran on a weekly basis — the State Department, as well as the Department of Treasury. They just put on new sanctions two days ago. There seems to be reports that they will be designating the Houthis in Yemen as foreign terrorist organizations. They are, of course, closely aligned with Iran. There are also many reports of the harsh sanctions against Syria and Iran, which are targeted against those countries but are a part of the larger maximum-pressure campaign of the Trump administration vis-à-vis Iran.
And just this week, Iran — the Iranian government confirmed that there were cyberattacks against the Iranian national gas company. As the cold weather is starting to set in in Iran for the winter, there are now worries across Iran that these cyberattacks might be meant to cause maximum harm in a short period of time and to further sort of — on top of the pandemic and the increased sanctions on Iran’s economy, which are hurting people, are things that the Trump administration is trying to do to further increase pressure on the Iranian people and, by extension, on the Iranian regime.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Narges Bajoghli, if you could talk about how you expect things might change under a Biden-Harris administration, not just with respect to the nuclear agreement, but even with respect — sorry, to the nuclear agreement, whether you think either the U.S. or Iran will want to negotiate the terms of that agreement before the U.S. rejoins, and whether the agreement will only be negotiated, as I think some in Iran have suggested, only after presidential elections in Iran are due to be held next year in the middle of the year?
NARGES BAJOGHLI: So, yes, there are presidential elections coming up in Iran in the summer of 2021. So, there is a very short time period and window left at this moment between when the Biden administration comes into office, is sworn in, and the presidential elections in Iran. One of the things that are uncertain at the moment is who will win those presidential elections in Iran, whether it will continue to be folks from the moderate reformist side of the table who have been wanting to engage with the West, or whether it will be more hardliners who have taken a very harsh stance against the JCPOA, the Iran deal, and especially the ways in which the Trump administration pulled out and the sanctions that have been put back in place. So, actually, what the Biden administration does in these next few months is very key to determining what local politics might look like on a national level in Iran and who might be the president sort of coming in.
As it stands today, within this past week, both President Rouhani of Iran, the Foreign Minister Javad Zarif and the Speaker of Parliament Ghalibaf have all made statements that have indicated their openness to reengaging with the United States on a certain level. Zarif, just two days ago, came out and said that if the Biden administration comes back to U.N. Resolution 2231, that they will come back to their — that Iran will come back to its promises in the JCPOA. So, compliance for compliance is what the Iranians are arguing for.
As far as a new deal or something that would be more than the JCPOA, that is something that so far Iran is saying that it will not consider as long as these sanctions are on and as long as the United States does not go back to its promises in the JCPOA. We also don’t know who will be within the foreign policy team in the Biden administration quite yet, and so it’s difficult to say what the Biden-Harris team will do going forward, until it becomes a little bit clearer who they bring in for their foreign policy, and especially their Iran team.
AMY GOODMAN: I mean, it’s very interesting that at the same time President Trump might be threatening war with Iran — and some might say it’s already war when you have the level of sanctions he has imposed on Iran at a time of the COVID devastation, perhaps not ravaging Iran as much as it’s ravaging the United States because he hasn’t gotten a handle on it — but when you have him threatening war, yet at the same time saying that he would pull thousands of troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan, which has shaken the national security establishment, Democrat and Republican, in the United States. Can you make sense of this?
NARGES BAJOGHLI: Yeah, you know, I appreciate that question, Amy, because, actually, I think it’s really important to understand that the maximum pressure from the Trump administration towards Iran is something — I mean, even Secretary Pompeo, just yesterday, came out with a very large statement that he released where he was defending maximum pressure, where, by all means, it’s failed to get to the policies that they were trying to get to. But regardless, maximum pressure has devastated Iran’s economy. Especially, it’s driving the middle class towards poverty. It has also, in addition to sanctions, involved a whole slew of cyberattacks, as well as media warfare, disinformation campaigns, funding for different opposition groups.
So, this is pretty much a war, by any means, against Iran. It hasn’t gone into hot confrontation with Iran directly yet, although there is confrontation in different areas, in Syria and Iraq and within Yemen and Saudi Arabia. And so, this really is a multipronged attack against Iran. Iran is also, at the same time — it’s true that the pandemic is ravaging the United States, but it’s also ravaging Iran. And in the midst of all of this, more and more sanctions are being put on the country.
So, these different narratives that are coming out about troop reduction in Afghanistan and in Iraq, and then the potential for at least plans being drawn up, whether they will be executed or not, for attacking Iran, I think part of the way to make sense of this is that there are folks within the Trump administration, from Secretary Pompeo to Elliott Abrams, who’s the special representative for Venezuela and Iran, and Netanyahu, who are really hoping for ways to have an excuse to further weaken Iran, because they see this as one of the last opportunities before the Biden administration comes in.
All of these different stories that we’re going to see coming out between now and January 20th, I think we have to keep an eye towards part of them also being an attempt to push at Iran in different ways and to see whether it will react in such a way that it will warrant an American attack or not. I mean, the Trump administration has said that their red line is the killing of an American. So we have to see if these different ways in which Iran is being pressured, both in battlefields across the region, as well as in cyberattacks and others, whether these will be baits that the Iranians will take or not.
On the other hand, Iran has indicated, both from the Revolutionary Guards as well as within the government itself, that they understand that they are being pushed in this way, and that they are saying that they will continue to remain patient until the Biden administration comes in. So, right now — but in this entire sort of atmosphere, what is really dangerous, I think, is that there is a lot of potential for miscalculation on different parts of playing fields. And this is something that we have to really wait and see what will happen in the next two months and whether it will be something that will drag into something that’s hotter.
AMY GOODMAN: Narges Bajoghli, we want to thank you so much for being with us, professor of Middle East studies at Johns Hopkins University, author of Iran Reframed: Anxieties of Power in the Islamic Republic.
Next up, has the Biden honeymoon stopped before it even started? Up next. Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-11-19--Dead Before Christmas: As U.S. Passes 250K COVID Deaths, Healthcare Workers Brace for Holiday Surge

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : The official U.S. death toll from COVID-19 has passed a quarter of a million people as the virus rages out of control from coast to coast , with 172,000 infections and nearly 2,000 deaths reported on Wednesday alone .
U.S. hospitalizations continue to shatter records , with over 73,000 COVID-19 patients .
The average daily death toll is rising in 33 states .
But as COVID breaks every record here in the United States with expected holiday spikes still to come , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ said Wednesday he will not work with President-elect Joe Biden until the General Services Administration declares an election winner .
HHS staffers have been directed to not communicate with Biden ’ s team .
Biden said the move could delay vaccine distribution by weeks or even months .
This comes amidst reports of hospitals reaching capacity and overwhelmed healthcare workers and a lack of personal protective equipment reminiscent of the first months of the pandemic .
Biden spoke with frontline workers on a video call Wednesday .
This is part of his emotional @ @ @ @ @ @ @ care unit nurse , president of the Minnesota chapter of National Nurses United .
As she spoke , Biden wiped away a tear .
AMY GOODMAN : That ’ s President-elect Joe Biden responding to Mary Turner , president of the Minnesota chapter of National Nurses United .
Well , for more , we ’ re going to Washington , D.C. , where we ’ re joined by Ed Yong .
He ’ s science writer at The Atlantic , his latest story headlined “ 'No One Is Listening to Us ' : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ COVID-19 .
Health-care workers can ’ t go on like this.
” Ed Yong , we ’ re nearing 2,000 people in a day dying in this country , by far shattering every record in the world for COVID-19 .
Your latest piece focuses on healthcare workers .
Meanwhile , President Trump remains bunkered down in the White House .
For 12 days , he has had no public events , and on his schedule to come , no public events to be seen .
Can you talk about the state of this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not about what could have been , though that is an absolutely critical issue to look at , but what is happening right now .
There are many days that President Trump will remain president , that mean that thousands and thousands of people will die .
ED YONG : Yeah , I can ’ t really overemphasize how important the next few days are .
So , let me paint the full picture for you .
It ’ s really interesting you said Trump has been closed off 12 days , because @ @ @ @ @ @ @ typically a 12-day lag between rises in cases and rises in hospitalizations .
And that means that all the stories you ’ ve just heard , that ICU nurse , all the stories about hospitals in the Midwest being completely at capacity and unable to cope , that doesn ’ t even account for the one-and-a-half million people who have been confirmed as infected over the last 12 days .
Some of those people will slam into those hospitals , that are already unable to cope with what they have right now , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
And the people who get infected at Thanksgiving , they are going to slam into those hospitals in the two weeks after that , and some of those people are going to be dead before Christmas .
That is what we are looking at .
We are looking at enormous tragedy .
And I can not — it ’ s really hard to explain how nurses and doctors are dealing with this .
I have spent the last couple of weeks interviewing many of them around the country .
I ’ ve @ @ @ @ @ @ @ phone .
A nurse told me — a nurse who works in a cancer ward told me earlier this week that she can not even process — she doesn ’ t even know how to process the amount of death that she is seeing on the COVID wards .
One of the best-prepared hospitals in the entire country , in Nebraska , has turned an entire tower into COVID units .
They ’ re dealing with so many more patients , in general and specifically COVID patients , than they ’ ve ever @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : Well , Ed Yong , in your piece about medical workers , in addition , of course , to the burnout that you speak of , there is also the issue of the effects of the politicization of the pandemic and the Trump administration ’ s response .
You write in the recent piece that , quote , “ Health-care workers and public-health officials have received threats and abusive messages accusing them of fearmongering.
” So , in addition to these extremely injurious effects on nurses and on doctors , they ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : They are being abused .
They ’ re being harassed .
Public health officials are taking the brunt of this .
But even if you — you know , say you ’ re not getting harassed and abused .
You ’ re still — you know , some of the people I ’ ve talked to are still spending 12-hour shifts in the ICU .
They ’ re watching patients die on them .
They ’ re having to zip those patients up in body bags .
And then they end those @ @ @ @ @ @ @ rows of packed restaurants , past packed sporting venues , past people having parties and going out to bars .
That is emotionally devastating .
You know , these are the people who are trying to save everyone ’ s lives .
They are inundated .
They are exhausted .
And at the end of the day , they are forced to watch the people who will likely be in their ICUs and adding to their burden in about two weeks ’ time .
And that social fatigue of having to deal with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ its part is crushing .
People I ’ ve spoken to have said that in the spring , when this first started , they were energetic , and they had a sense of purpose and drive to them .
And partly that was buoyed by the fact that other people were doing their part and everyone was in it together .
But we ’ re past the days now when people were clapping for healthcare workers in the evening .
People have forgotten , and pandemic fatigue has set in .
And that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ been at this for the entire year , almost without a break , and who are now exhausted , feel like they ’ ve been left alone by the very public that they are trying to save .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Ed , we ’ ve been talking now , of course , about infections , but principally about deaths in the U.S. and how the U.S. stands out .
It ’ s number one in the world in terms of deaths .
But you wrote earlier , in August , in a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ long haulers .
This was in August .
Could you talk about what long haulers are and what we ’ ve learned since August about this condition , which afflicts not just people who are older and more vulnerable , but also , as you ’ ve said in that piece , people who were previously healthy and also the young ?
ED YONG : Yeah .
So , a lot of COVID patients have had ongoing symptoms for many months now , well past the period where supposedly mild COVID is meant @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not severe enough to send them into an ICU , but they are certainly severe enough to debilitate their lives .
They include neurological problems , like brain fog ; crushing fatigue that prevents them from doing even the simplest tasks and that makes daily activity — like , even mild amounts of physical and mental activity can send them into a big physiological crash .
Like many other people with related chronic illnesses , like dysautonomia or myalgic encephalomyelitis , long haulers have often been dismissed by the medical establishment and neglected @ @ @ @ @ @ @ their own recognition .
They ’ ve been doing research on their own community .
They have got the attention of the NIH and the WHO .
And they are forming communities and pushing and advocating for themselves .
The really stark thing here is that we know that a certain proportion , a still unidentified proportion , of people who get COVID-19 will end up in this bucket .
And with millions of people being infected now at an ever faster rate than ever , we are looking at a huge proportion @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be suffering from the consequences of COVID-19 well into next year , and maybe for even longer than that .
We are looking at a really , really large toll of long-term disability , that I don ’ t think America is even remotely ready for .
AMY GOODMAN : Ed , can you talk about the Trump administration refusing to communicate with the incoming Biden administration , what exactly this means ?
That Emily Murphy , who , apparently , day to day , is deciding what to do — yes , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ administration , but every individual can make their own decision about what they want to do if it involves , for example , saving lives , where she would do the — sign off on an ascertainment that means that the Biden administration can start to plan , like a relay race , where you don ’ t stop and then take a baton and run — you are running alongside the runner behind you , and you take the baton from them .
We ’ re at a point right now where @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , for example , the distribution of the vaccine , not only weeks , but by months .
That ’ s just one part of this .
Talk about the significance of this , as President Trump hides away in the White House .
ED YONG : Well , it ’ s just another of a long line of decisions that the Trump administration has made that has severely hampered the U.S. ’ s ability to control this very controllable , very preventable crisis .
None of this should be playing out in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it is because of the utter incompetence of this administration throughout the entire year .
And it seems like having lost the recent election , they show no signs of charting a different course .
It is really unfortunate , because for the first time , I think , true hope is on the horizon .
We have an administration coming in that has vowed to take this seriously , that has appointed actual medical experts to its task force , that has a plan that just reads very much like all the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ been pushing for the last year .
We have the promise of two very effective vaccines on the horizon .
And while , of course , we await actual data on those , the early signs look very , very promising , perhaps far better than a lot of experts had been hoping for .
And so , the light at the end of the tunnel is brighter than ever , but the tunnel itself is incredibly dark .
Some healthcare systems are going to collapse .
And those death rates that you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ higher when that happens , when doctors and nurses simply can not any longer take care of every patient .
We are approaching that point , where they will have to choose who to save and who to let die .
And so , you know , it is a problem , of course , that Trump is not aiding the Biden transition , but we can not wait for that point .
We can not wait for a new administration to come in , in January .
And even in this interregnum @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Biden transition team and task force , it falls upon all of us to do our part .
It falls upon all of us to cancel our travel plans .
It calls upon us to stay away from other people in indoor spaces who aren ’ t from our households .
Indoor spaces are the best way — indoor spaces provide some of the best conditions for the virus to transmit — bars , restaurants , gyms , house parties , dinner parties .
These are the means through which SARS-CoV-2 virus spreads @ @ @ @ @ @ @ those for the immediate future .
We need to hunker down , and we need to distance ourselves from each other , even at this painful time when we really want to be seeing and gathering and hugging our families , because if we don ’ t , many parts of our country ’ s healthcare system are just going to collapse within the next few months , before those signs of hope , before the new administration and before vaccines start coming into play .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Well , Ed Yong @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the vaccine is giving hope — not just the two possibly very successful vaccines are giving hope not just to people in the U.S. , but also , of course , around the world .
But I ’ d like to ask about some of the problems that many countries — in fact , the majority of countries in the world — will face in accessing these vaccines , number one having to do with distribution , because both vaccines require storage and transportation in subzero temperatures ; and second , the question @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a number of developing countries , led by India and South Africa , that are pushing for the suspension of property rights with respect to the COVID-19 vaccine to make the vaccine more accessible to the majority of countries in the world ; and lastly , the fact that rich countries have already bought up almost the majority — I think 46 % — of projected vaccine doses , leaving many in the world to anticipate receiving this vaccine only several years from now .
So , could you talk about some of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , that this lack of access might create , not just for people around the world outside the rich countries , but also for the rich countries , if such large numbers of people don ’ t receive the vaccine ?
ED YONG : Yeah .
So , to be clear , this is not something I personally reported on , so I don ’ t want to stray outside what I know .
My colleague Sarah Zhang has written some credible pieces about vaccines and some of the logistical problems going forward @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a pandemic , obviously , is a global issue , and countries can not be fighting it alone .
America is in a weird position here , because it has uniquely botched its response to this vaccine and is in worse straits than a lot of other places in the world with much fewer resources .
But , you know , the traditional posture of trying to help the rest of the world and being part of this global community still stands .
There are agreements and alliances that are meant to ensure @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the entire pandemic under control around the world , on the understanding that if any one country is vulnerable , every country is vulnerable .
The U.S. should , I hope , in future , in the coming administration , sign up to those alliances and be part of its place within the global community .
But it also needs a massive dose of humility here .
You know , gone are the days when it is the big player offering aid and advice and expertise to the rest of the world .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ it has as much to learn from other countries as it has to teach .
I will add that , yes , the problems of distributing a vaccine and allocating it fairly within the U.S. and more broadly are substantial .
And they mean that these vaccines , when they get approved , which hopefully won ’ t be too long from now , that ’ s not going to be the end of the pandemic .
It ’ s not going to be a matter of flipping a light switch and restoring @ @ @ @ @ @ @ longed for .
It is going to be a slow process of gradually rolling out doses around the country and around the world , slowly ramping up immunity and slowly bringing this thing under control .
The end is in sight .
We do have an endgame .
But it is going to be a long endgame , and we are only going to begin that process soon .
And in that time , we will still need all the public health measures that have been insufficient thus far .
We need testing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ tests , that can make a huge difference in controlling this pandemic .
We will need contact tracing .
We will need social interventions , like paid sick leave .
We will need clear communication from people in charge .
And we will need some measure of physical distancing still for many months to come , to prevent the kinds of healthcare system collapses that we are facing right now .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Before we conclude , I want to ask you about something you wrote about in an October piece , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so , we know now , the Biden-Harris administration — will probably have to deal with another major epidemic during their term in office .
Could you explain why you think that ’ s the case ?
ED YONG : Because that has been case for every administration in recent history .
So , take Barack Obama .
In his two terms , he had to deal with MERS , another coronavirus , the H1N1 flu pandemic .
He had to deal with Zika , and he had to deal with the massive @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Now , of course , not all of those epidemics hit the U.S. , but many of them did .
And the current pandemic shows just how easily a new disease can affect the entire world .
We live in an age of epidemics , where new viruses are coming out all the time , when old foes are popping their — are resurging to threaten us once more .
And this is not a problem , therefore , that we can expect to go away at any time , at any @ @ @ @ @ @ @ enough to survive the COVID-19 pandemic will almost certainly experience more pandemics in our lifetimes , certainly more epidemics that we need to worry about .
And I just can ’ t overstate how important this is .
I wrote a piece in The Atlantic in 2018 about the need to prepare for pandemics and the fact that the U.S. was not prepared enough .
And look around you .
Clearly , that was the case .
And I ’ m saying to you now that we still have holes to fix .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ We have seen how overstretched our hospitals are , how underfunded our public health systems are , how vulnerable prisons and nursing homes and meatpacking plants can be , how poorly ventilated a lot of our buildings are , how long-lasting some of the injustices that have plagued the country for decades and centuries are that have now led to people of color , Indigenous communities , disabled communities and elderly communities being disproportionately hit by this virus .
We have a lot to fix before the next big epidemic hits us .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ have a big family dinner for Thanksgiving , can you expect a small funeral for Christmas ?
ED YONG : I would prefer if you don ’ t have a large family dinner at all .
Look , I know we really want to see our families .
I miss my family .
I miss my friends .
I have not seen most of them since the start of the year , and even longer than that .
But if you gather indoors , if multiple generations gather indoors , speaking loudly , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ contact , without masks , those are the perfect conditions for spreading this coronavirus .
And as I said , a lot of the people who get infected in Thanksgiving are going to be rushing into hospitals in the middle of December , possibly finding no staff or beds available to them , and they will be in the morgue by Christmas .
That is how this virus acts .
It works in a predictable way that we have seen throughout the entire year .
If you can , try and be safer @ @ @ @ @ @ @ just to cancel your plans full stop .
If we went to have a nice Thanksgiving in 2021 , which we should be able to because of a better administration and because of vaccines , then we need to make the right choices this year .
You don ’ t want to be at the Thanksgiving table in 2021 looking at an empty chair from the person who you lost based on bad decisions this year .
AMY GOODMAN : Ed Yong , thanks so much for being with us .
We ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ pieces at The Atlantic , your latest piece , “ 'No One Is Listening to Us . '
” When we come back , is President Trump trying to make plans to attack Iran before he leaves office ?
Stay with us .
AMY GOODMAN : “ Life Is Good Again ” by Dolly Parton .
Earlier this year , she made a $ 1 million donation that ’ s being credited with helping Moderna develop its promising COVID-19 vaccine .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: The official U.S. death toll from COVID-19 has passed a quarter of a million people as the virus rages out of control from coast to coast, with 172,000 infections and nearly 2,000 deaths reported on Wednesday alone. U.S. hospitalizations continue to shatter records, with over 73,000 COVID-19 patients. The average daily death toll is rising in 33 states.
But as COVID breaks every record here in the United States with expected holiday spikes still to come, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said Wednesday he will not work with President-elect Joe Biden until the General Services Administration declares an election winner. HHS staffers have been directed to not communicate with Biden’s team. Biden said the move could delay vaccine distribution by weeks or even months.
This comes amidst reports of hospitals reaching capacity and overwhelmed healthcare workers and a lack of personal protective equipment reminiscent of the first months of the pandemic. Biden spoke with frontline workers on a video call Wednesday. This is part of his emotional exchange with Mary Turner, an intensive care unit nurse, president of the Minnesota chapter of National Nurses United. As she spoke, Biden wiped away a tear.
MARY TURNER: Do you know that I have not been tested yet, and I have been on the frontlines in the ICU since February?
PRESIDENT-ELECT JOE BIDEN: You’re kidding me.
MARY TURNER: No. We also need safe staffing of nurses in the hospital units. And patients who are or may be COVID-positive patients must be isolated from the general patient population. Workers who have been exposed or who are sick need to be allowed to quarantine at home, without fear of losing income and their jobs. This is a novel virus, but the principles of infection control are not. Our hospitals have not been providing these basic protections. …
Nurses across the country were so relieved and grateful, Mr. President-elect, when you committed to taking action that we need to have to get this pandemic under control. …
You know, we nurses, we know that we are facing immense death and suffering in the coming weeks. And we will be there. But we need to act now. We need to act quickly to protect our healthcare workers, so that we can save as many lives as possible. Thank you.
PRESIDENT-ELECT JOE BIDEN: Mary —
MARY TURNER: I’m sorry I’m so emotional.
PRESIDENT-ELECT JOE BIDEN: No.
MARY TURNER: It’s just —
PRESIDENT-ELECT JOE BIDEN: You got me emotional.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s President-elect Joe Biden responding to Mary Turner, president of the Minnesota chapter of National Nurses United.
Well, for more, we’re going to Washington, D.C., where we’re joined by Ed Yong. He’s science writer at The Atlantic, his latest story headlined “'No One Is Listening to Us': More people than ever are hospitalized with COVID-19. Health-care workers can’t go on like this.”
Ed Yong, we’re nearing 2,000 people in a day dying in this country, by far shattering every record in the world for COVID-19. Your latest piece focuses on healthcare workers. Meanwhile, President Trump remains bunkered down in the White House. For 12 days, he has had no public events, and on his schedule to come, no public events to be seen. Can you talk about the state of this country right now? It’s not about what could have been, though that is an absolutely critical issue to look at, but what is happening right now. There are many days that President Trump will remain president, that mean that thousands and thousands of people will die.
ED YONG: Yeah, I can’t really overemphasize how important the next few days are. So, let me paint the full picture for you. It’s really interesting you said Trump has been closed off 12 days, because that number is important. There is typically a 12-day lag between rises in cases and rises in hospitalizations. And that means that all the stories you’ve just heard, that ICU nurse, all the stories about hospitals in the Midwest being completely at capacity and unable to cope, that doesn’t even account for the one-and-a-half million people who have been confirmed as infected over the last 12 days. Some of those people will slam into those hospitals, that are already unable to cope with what they have right now, over the next two weeks into Thanksgiving. And the people who get infected at Thanksgiving, they are going to slam into those hospitals in the two weeks after that, and some of those people are going to be dead before Christmas. That is what we are looking at. We are looking at enormous tragedy.
And I cannot — it’s really hard to explain how nurses and doctors are dealing with this. I have spent the last couple of weeks interviewing many of them around the country. I’ve had nurses crying to me down the phone. A nurse told me — a nurse who works in a cancer ward told me earlier this week that she cannot even process — she doesn’t even know how to process the amount of death that she is seeing on the COVID wards. One of the best-prepared hospitals in the entire country, in Nebraska, has turned an entire tower into COVID units. They’re dealing with so many more patients, in general and specifically COVID patients, than they’ve ever had to deal with.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Ed Yong, in your piece about medical workers, in addition, of course, to the burnout that you speak of, there is also the issue of the effects of the politicization of the pandemic and the Trump administration’s response. You write in the recent piece that, quote, “Health-care workers and public-health officials have received threats and abusive messages accusing them of fearmongering.” So, in addition to these extremely injurious effects on nurses and on doctors, they’re also being abused.
ED YONG: They are being abused. They’re being harassed. Public health officials are taking the brunt of this. But even if you — you know, say you’re not getting harassed and abused. You’re still — you know, some of the people I’ve talked to are still spending 12-hour shifts in the ICU. They’re watching patients die on them. They’re having to zip those patients up in body bags. And then they end those shifts, and they drive home past rows of packed restaurants, past packed sporting venues, past people having parties and going out to bars. That is emotionally devastating. You know, these are the people who are trying to save everyone’s lives. They are inundated. They are exhausted. And at the end of the day, they are forced to watch the people who will likely be in their ICUs and adding to their burden in about two weeks’ time. And that social fatigue of having to deal with a society that isn’t doing its part is crushing.
People I’ve spoken to have said that in the spring, when this first started, they were energetic, and they had a sense of purpose and drive to them. And partly that was buoyed by the fact that other people were doing their part and everyone was in it together. But we’re past the days now when people were clapping for healthcare workers in the evening. People have forgotten, and pandemic fatigue has set in. And that means that healthcare workers, who have been at this for the entire year, almost without a break, and who are now exhausted, feel like they’ve been left alone by the very public that they are trying to save.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Ed, we’ve been talking now, of course, about infections, but principally about deaths in the U.S. and how the U.S. stands out. It’s number one in the world in terms of deaths. But you wrote earlier, in August, in a piece about long haulers, so-called COVID long haulers. This was in August. Could you talk about what long haulers are and what we’ve learned since August about this condition, which afflicts not just people who are older and more vulnerable, but also, as you’ve said in that piece, people who were previously healthy and also the young?
ED YONG: Yeah. So, a lot of COVID patients have had ongoing symptoms for many months now, well past the period where supposedly mild COVID is meant to finish. These symptoms are often not severe enough to send them into an ICU, but they are certainly severe enough to debilitate their lives. They include neurological problems, like brain fog; crushing fatigue that prevents them from doing even the simplest tasks and that makes daily activity — like, even mild amounts of physical and mental activity can send them into a big physiological crash.
Like many other people with related chronic illnesses, like dysautonomia or myalgic encephalomyelitis, long haulers have often been dismissed by the medical establishment and neglected. But they have been pushing for their own recognition. They’ve been doing research on their own community. They have got the attention of the NIH and the WHO. And they are forming communities and pushing and advocating for themselves.
The really stark thing here is that we know that a certain proportion, a still unidentified proportion, of people who get COVID-19 will end up in this bucket. And with millions of people being infected now at an ever faster rate than ever, we are looking at a huge proportion of people who are still going to be suffering from the consequences of COVID-19 well into next year, and maybe for even longer than that. We are looking at a really, really large toll of long-term disability, that I don’t think America is even remotely ready for.
AMY GOODMAN: Ed, can you talk about the Trump administration refusing to communicate with the incoming Biden administration, what exactly this means? That Emily Murphy, who, apparently, day to day, is deciding what to do — yes, she must take orders from the Trump administration, but every individual can make their own decision about what they want to do if it involves, for example, saving lives, where she would do the — sign off on an ascertainment that means that the Biden administration can start to plan, like a relay race, where you don’t stop and then take a baton and run — you are running alongside the runner behind you, and you take the baton from them. We’re at a point right now where Biden is saying this could set back, for example, the distribution of the vaccine, not only weeks, but by months. That’s just one part of this. Talk about the significance of this, as President Trump hides away in the White House.
ED YONG: Well, it’s just another of a long line of decisions that the Trump administration has made that has severely hampered the U.S.’s ability to control this very controllable, very preventable crisis. None of this should be playing out in the way that it has, and it is because of the utter incompetence of this administration throughout the entire year. And it seems like having lost the recent election, they show no signs of charting a different course.
It is really unfortunate, because for the first time, I think, true hope is on the horizon. We have an administration coming in that has vowed to take this seriously, that has appointed actual medical experts to its task force, that has a plan that just reads very much like all the other roadmaps and plans that experts have been pushing for the last year. We have the promise of two very effective vaccines on the horizon. And while, of course, we await actual data on those, the early signs look very, very promising, perhaps far better than a lot of experts had been hoping for. And so, the light at the end of the tunnel is brighter than ever, but the tunnel itself is incredibly dark. Some healthcare systems are going to collapse. And those death rates that you have seen are going to get even higher when that happens, when doctors and nurses simply cannot any longer take care of every patient. We are approaching that point, where they will have to choose who to save and who to let die.
And so, you know, it is a problem, of course, that Trump is not aiding the Biden transition, but we cannot wait for that point. We cannot wait for a new administration to come in, in January. And even in this interregnum, it falls upon not just the Biden transition team and task force, it falls upon all of us to do our part. It falls upon all of us to cancel our travel plans. It calls upon us to stay away from other people in indoor spaces who aren’t from our households. Indoor spaces are the best way — indoor spaces provide some of the best conditions for the virus to transmit — bars, restaurants, gyms, house parties, dinner parties. These are the means through which SARS-CoV-2 virus spreads easily, and we need to avoid those for the immediate future. We need to hunker down, and we need to distance ourselves from each other, even at this painful time when we really want to be seeing and gathering and hugging our families, because if we don’t, many parts of our country’s healthcare system are just going to collapse within the next few months, before those signs of hope, before the new administration and before vaccines start coming into play.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Ed Yong, as you have talked about, the vaccine is giving hope — not just the two possibly very successful vaccines are giving hope not just to people in the U.S., but also, of course, around the world. But I’d like to ask about some of the problems that many countries — in fact, the majority of countries in the world — will face in accessing these vaccines, number one having to do with distribution, because both vaccines require storage and transportation in subzero temperatures; and second, the question of intellectual property rights — there are a number of developing countries, led by India and South Africa, that are pushing for the suspension of property rights with respect to the COVID-19 vaccine to make the vaccine more accessible to the majority of countries in the world; and lastly, the fact that rich countries have already bought up almost the majority — I think 46% — of projected vaccine doses, leaving many in the world to anticipate receiving this vaccine only several years from now. So, could you talk about some of the issues, some of the problems, that this lack of access might create, not just for people around the world outside the rich countries, but also for the rich countries, if such large numbers of people don’t receive the vaccine?
ED YONG: Yeah. So, to be clear, this is not something I personally reported on, so I don’t want to stray outside what I know. My colleague Sarah Zhang has written some credible pieces about vaccines and some of the logistical problems going forward.
What I will say is that a pandemic, obviously, is a global issue, and countries cannot be fighting it alone. America is in a weird position here, because it has uniquely botched its response to this vaccine and is in worse straits than a lot of other places in the world with much fewer resources. But, you know, the traditional posture of trying to help the rest of the world and being part of this global community still stands. There are agreements and alliances that are meant to ensure equitable international distribution of vaccines to get the entire pandemic under control around the world, on the understanding that if any one country is vulnerable, every country is vulnerable. The U.S. should, I hope, in future, in the coming administration, sign up to those alliances and be part of its place within the global community. But it also needs a massive dose of humility here. You know, gone are the days when it is the big player offering aid and advice and expertise to the rest of the world. The U.S. is in a position where it has as much to learn from other countries as it has to teach.
I will add that, yes, the problems of distributing a vaccine and allocating it fairly within the U.S. and more broadly are substantial. And they mean that these vaccines, when they get approved, which hopefully won’t be too long from now, that’s not going to be the end of the pandemic. It’s not going to be a matter of flipping a light switch and restoring the world of 2019 that we have longed for. It is going to be a slow process of gradually rolling out doses around the country and around the world, slowly ramping up immunity and slowly bringing this thing under control.
The end is in sight. We do have an endgame. But it is going to be a long endgame, and we are only going to begin that process soon. And in that time, we will still need all the public health measures that have been insufficient thus far. We need testing. We need access to rapid diagnostic tests, that can make a huge difference in controlling this pandemic. We will need contact tracing. We will need social interventions, like paid sick leave. We will need clear communication from people in charge. And we will need some measure of physical distancing still for many months to come, to prevent the kinds of healthcare system collapses that we are facing right now.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Before we conclude, I want to ask you about something you wrote about in an October piece, namely that whoever wins the election — so, we know now, the Biden-Harris administration — will probably have to deal with another major epidemic during their term in office. Could you explain why you think that’s the case?
ED YONG: Because that has been case for every administration in recent history. So, take Barack Obama. In his two terms, he had to deal with MERS, another coronavirus, the H1N1 flu pandemic. He had to deal with Zika, and he had to deal with the massive, historic Ebola outbreak in West Africa. Now, of course, not all of those epidemics hit the U.S., but many of them did. And the current pandemic shows just how easily a new disease can affect the entire world.
We live in an age of epidemics, where new viruses are coming out all the time, when old foes are popping their — are resurging to threaten us once more. And this is not a problem, therefore, that we can expect to go away at any time, at any time soon. Those of us fortunate enough to survive the COVID-19 pandemic will almost certainly experience more pandemics in our lifetimes, certainly more epidemics that we need to worry about.
And I just can’t overstate how important this is. I wrote a piece in The Atlantic in 2018 about the need to prepare for pandemics and the fact that the U.S. was not prepared enough. And look around you. Clearly, that was the case. And I’m saying to you now that we still have holes to fix. We have gaps in our preparedness. We have seen how overstretched our hospitals are, how underfunded our public health systems are, how vulnerable prisons and nursing homes and meatpacking plants can be, how poorly ventilated a lot of our buildings are, how long-lasting some of the injustices that have plagued the country for decades and centuries are that have now led to people of color, Indigenous communities, disabled communities and elderly communities being disproportionately hit by this virus. We have a lot to fix before the next big epidemic hits us.
AMY GOODMAN: Ed, if you have a big family dinner for Thanksgiving, can you expect a small funeral for Christmas?
ED YONG: I would prefer if you don’t have a large family dinner at all. Look, I know we really want to see our families. I miss my family. I miss my friends. I have not seen most of them since the start of the year, and even longer than that. But if you gather indoors, if multiple generations gather indoors, speaking loudly, for days on end, in close contact, without masks, those are the perfect conditions for spreading this coronavirus. And as I said, a lot of the people who get infected in Thanksgiving are going to be rushing into hospitals in the middle of December, possibly finding no staff or beds available to them, and they will be in the morgue by Christmas. That is how this virus acts. It works in a predictable way that we have seen throughout the entire year.
If you can, try and be safer. And if you can, try just to cancel your plans full stop. If we went to have a nice Thanksgiving in 2021, which we should be able to because of a better administration and because of vaccines, then we need to make the right choices this year. You don’t want to be at the Thanksgiving table in 2021 looking at an empty chair from the person who you lost based on bad decisions this year.
AMY GOODMAN: Ed Yong, thanks so much for being with us. We’re going to link to all your pieces at The Atlantic, your latest piece, “'No One Is Listening to Us.'”
When we come back, is President Trump trying to make plans to attack Iran before he leaves office? Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: “Life Is Good Again” by Dolly Parton. Earlier this year, she made a $1 million donation that’s being credited with helping Moderna develop its promising COVID-19 vaccine.


democracynow--2020-11-19--Headlines for November 19, 2020

Headlines for November 19, 2020

The official U.S. death toll from COVID-19 has passed a quarter of a million people as the virus rages out @ @ @ @ @ coast , with 172,000 infections and nearly 2,000 deaths reported on Wednesday alone .
U.S. @ @ @ @ @ — now at over 73,000 COVID-19 patients — and the average daily death toll is @ @ @ @ @ Columbia University epidemiologists estimate more than 3 million people across the U.S. are currently contagious @ @ @ @ @ 1 % of the population .
On Tuesday , Chicago ’ s public health commissioner @ @ @ @ @ urged city residents to put off Thanksgiving holiday plans , warning as many as 180,000 @ @ @ @ @ Dr. Allison Arwady : “ As many as one in 15 Chicagoans has active COVID-19 @ @ @ @ @ is why the risk of gathering is significant.
” Here in New York , Mayor @ @ @ @ @ in-person classes for the city ’ s public school system — even as bars , @ @ @ @ @ for limited service .

The official U.S. death toll from COVID-19 has passed a quarter of a million people as the virus rages out of control from coast to coast, with 172,000 infections and nearly 2,000 deaths reported on Wednesday alone. U.S. hospitalizations continue to shatter records — now at over 73,000 COVID-19 patients — and the average daily death toll is rising in 33 states. Columbia University epidemiologists estimate more than 3 million people across the U.S. are currently contagious with the coronavirus — nearly 1% of the population.
On Tuesday, Chicago’s public health commissioner, Dr. Allison Arwady, urged city residents to put off Thanksgiving holiday plans, warning as many as 180,000 residents are currently infectious.
Dr. Allison Arwady: “As many as one in 15 Chicagoans has active COVID-19 right now. And that is why the risk of gathering is significant.”
Here in New York, Mayor Bill de Blasio has canceled in-person classes for the city’s public school system — even as bars, restaurants and gyms remain open for limited service.


democracynow--2020-11-20--"A Huge Blow to Civil Society": Egypt Arrests Leading Human Rights Monitors in Latest Crackdown

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, Democracynow.org , the Quarantine Report .
We end today ’ s show in Egypt , where the executive director of the leading human rights group in the country was arrested Thursday night in an unprecedented crackdown .
Gasser Abdel-Razek was arrested at his home just days after two other staffers for the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights were also arrested .
The move signals a major escalation of repression from the government of President Abdel Fattah @ @ @ @ @ @ @ activists and journalists since he came to power after the 2013 overthrow of the late President Mohamed Morsi .
Criminal justice director Kareem Ennarah and office manager Mohamed Basheer are the two other members of the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights who have been arrested .
They are being held on terrorism charges .
The arrests come just after the human rights group met with a group of foreign ambassadors and diplomats in Cairo earlier this month to discuss the human rights situation in Egypt and abroad .
For more , we go @ @ @ @ @ @ @ by Democracy Now !
correspondent Sharif Abdel Kouddous .
He ’ s also a reporter for Mada Masr , the country ’ s last independent media outlet .
Sharif , thanks for joining us again .
Talk about what ’ s happening and the significance of the arrest of these human rights leaders .
SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS : Well , over the past several years , authorities have severely targeted the activities of civil society in Egypt , especially those working on human rights .
EIPR was really one of the last to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ crucial .
They publish investigations into critical issues like detention conditions .
Their most recent work focused on the rights and health of prisoners amid the pandemic .
They do crucial work documenting executions in Egypt .
They recently issued a report documenting how Egyptian authorities executed no less than 53 people on death row in the month of October alone , a huge escalation in the use of the death penalty .
So no one else is documenting this type of thing like EIPR is .
And they ’ ve continued to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ environment and under constant pressure .
Just last February , their gender rights researcher , Patrick George Zaky , was arrested at the airport after returning from Italy , where he was studying abroad .
He was tortured by electrocution during his interrogation and put into pre-trial detention where he remains behind bars .
So that ’ s the context .
And even within that context , what happened with these arrests marked a sharp escalation by authorities against EIPR and civil society in general .
As you mentioned , on November 3rd @ @ @ @ @ @ @ office with about 13 European ambassadors and diplomats , talking about enhancing human rights in Egypt and globally .
They were open about the meeting , transparent .
They published photos of it online .
But this is apparently what triggered the arrests .
So Mohamed Basheer , the administrative director of the group , was arrested from his home in the middle of the night .
A few days later , Kareem Ennarah , the head of the criminal justice unit , was arrested while he was on the beach on vacation @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the executive director , Gasser Abdel-Razek , was arrested from his home in Cairo .
What is also very worrying about these arrests is that they came in conjunction with a highly coordinated smear campaign in media outlets owned by the General Intelligence Service , the Mukhabarat .
So they were publishing articles timed almost exactly with Kareem ’ s arrest , with the second arrest , calling EIPR an illegal organization whose goal is to undermine Egypt and to harm its national security .
So this coordinated media campaign is an indication @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the very top , which is of great concern .
So as it stands now , Mohamed , Kareem , and Gasser have been ordered into pre-trial detention for 15 days on charges including joining a terrorist organization , publishing false news .
These pre-trial detention charges can be renewed for weeks , months or even years , and they ’ ve become the main mechanism by Egyptian authorities to imprison people without ever having to put them on trial .
So again , these arrests are a huge blow to civil society @ @ @ @ @ @ @ civil society—to independent media , to grassroots activism and movements .
And it has really sent shockwaves throughout the community here .
AMY GOODMAN : I know that Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren has condemned the arrests .
What about the ambassadors who attended the meeting ?
Other countries ?
And very quickly , what your hopes are for next steps .
SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS : Well , the response has frankly been quite tepid from the European countries that attended this meeting and that the arrests were in response to .
I was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Norway has put out a statement .
In the U.S. , Senator Chris Coons , being talked about as a possible appointee as secretary of state under Biden , also tweeted against this .
And then the Human Rights Council today condemned the arrests , saying they ’ re part of a broader pattern of intimidating organizations working on human rights in Egypt and using counterterrorism and national security legislation to silence dissent .
The French foreign ministry also put out a statement condemning the arrest but Egypt ’ s foreign ministry very @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it is an interference in Egypt ’ s internal affairs .
So we ’ ll have to see what happens .
AMY GOODMAN : Sharif , thanks so much for being with us .
Sharif Abdel Kouddous , Democracy Now !
correspondent , and a reporter for Mada Masr based in Cairo .
Please be safe .
And that does it for our broadcast .
A happy birthday and a fond farewell and all the very best to our digital intern , Noah Flora .
That does it for the show .
Democracy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , Renée Feltz , Deena Guzder , Libby Rainey , Nermeen Shaikh , Maria Taracena , Carla Wills , Tami Woronoff , Charina Nadura , Sam Alcoff , Tey-Marie Astudillo , John Hamilton , Robby Karran , Hany Massoud and Adriano Contreras .
Our general manager is Julie Crosby .
Our director is Becca Staley .
Thanks to Miriam Barnard , Paul Powell , Mike DiFilippo , Miguel Noguera [ sp ] , Hugh Grand , Denis Moynihan , David Burke Prude [ sp ] and Dennis McCormick .
Please be safe , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Amy Goodman .
Thanks for joining us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. We end today’s show in Egypt, where the executive director of the leading human rights group in the country was arrested Thursday night in an unprecedented crackdown. Gasser Abdel-Razek was arrested at his home just days after two other staffers for the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights were also arrested. The move signals a major escalation of repression from the government of President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, who has imprisoned thousands of activists and journalists since he came to power after the 2013 overthrow of the late President Mohamed Morsi. Criminal justice director Karim Ennarah and office manager Mohamed Basheer are the two other members of the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights who have been arrested. They’re being held on terrorism charges. The arrests come just after the human rights group met with a group of foreign ambassadors and diplomats in Cairo earlier this month to discuss the human rights situation in Egypt and abroad.
For more, we go to Cairo, where we’re joined by Democracy Now! correspondent Sharif Abdel Kouddous. He’s also a reporter for Mada Masr, the country’s last independent media outlet.
Sharif, thanks for joining us again. Talk about what’s happening and the significance of the arrest of these human rights leaders.
SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS: Well, over the past several years, authorities have severely targeted the activities of civil society in Egypt, especially those working on human rights. And EIPR was really one of the last to continue operating. And their work is crucial. They publish investigations into critical issues like detention conditions. Their most recent work focused on the rights and health of prisoners amid the pandemic. They do crucial work documenting executions in Egypt. They recently issued a report documenting how Egyptian authorities executed no less than 53 people on death row in the month of October alone, a huge escalation in the use of the death penalty. So no one else is documenting this type of thing like EIPR is. And they’ve continued to operate despite being in an increasingly hostile environment and under constant pressure.
Just last February, their gender rights researcher, Patrick George Zaky, was arrested at the airport after returning from Italy, where he was studying abroad. He was tortured by electrocution during his interrogation and put into pretrial detention, where he remains behind bars. So that’s the context. And even within that context, what happened with these arrests marked a sharp escalation by authorities against EIPR and civil society in general.
And as you mentioned, on November 3rd, EIPR held a meeting at their office with about 13 European ambassadors and diplomats, talking about enhancing human rights in Egypt and globally. They were open about the meeting, transparent. They published photos of it online. But this is apparently what triggered the arrests. So, Mohamed Basheer, the administrative director of the group, was arrested from his home in the middle of the night. A few days later, Karim Ennarah, the head of the criminal justice unit, was arrested while he was on the beach on vacation in South Sinai. And yesterday, the executive director, Gasser Abdel-Razek, was arrested from his home in Cairo.
What is also very worrying about these arrests is that they came in conjunction with a highly coordinated smear campaign in media outlets owned by the General Intelligence Service, the Mukhabarat. So they were publishing articles timed almost exactly with Karim’s arrest, with the second arrest, calling EIPR an illegal organization whose goal is to undermine Egypt and to harm its national security. So, this is an indication of — this coordinated media campaign is an indication that this crackdown is being ordered from the very top, which is of great concern.
So, as it stands now, Mohamed, Karim and Gasser have been ordered into pretrial detention for 15 days on charges including joining a terrorist organization, publishing false news. These pretrial detention charges can be renewed for weeks, months or even years, and they’ve become the main mechanism by Egyptian authorities to imprison people without ever having to put them on trial. So, again, these arrests are a huge blow to civil society in Egypt — and not just to civil society, to independent media, to grassroots activism and movements. And it has really sent shockwaves throughout the community here.
AMY GOODMAN: I know that Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren has condemned the arrests. What about the ambassadors who attended the meeting? Other countries? And, very quickly, what your hopes are for next steps?
SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS: Well, the response has, frankly, been quite tepid from the European countries that attended this meeting and that the arrests were in response to. I was expecting to see more. I believe Norway has put out a statement. In the U.S., Senator Chris Coons, who’s being talked about as a possible appointee as secretary of state under Biden, also tweeted against this. And then, the Human Rights Council today condemned the arrests, saying they’re part of a broader pattern of intimidating organizations working on human rights in Egypt, and using counterterrorism and national security legislation to silence dissent. The French foreign ministry also put out a statement condemning the arrests, but Egypt’s foreign ministry very quickly then rejected their statement, saying it’s an interference in Egypt’s internal affairs. So, we’ll have to see what happens.
AMY GOODMAN: Sharif, thanks so much for being with us. Sharif Abdel Kouddous, Democracy Now! correspondent and a reporter for Mada Masr based in Cairo. Please be safe.
And that does it for our broadcast. A Happy Birthday and a fond farewell and all the very best to our digital intern, Noah Flora. That does it for the show. Democracy Now! is produced with Mike Burke, Renée Feltz, Deena Guzder, Libby Rainey, Nermeen Shaikh, María Taracena, Carla Wills, Tami Woronoff, Charina Nadura, Sam Alcoff, Tey-Marie Astudillo, John Hamilton, Robby Karran, Hany Massoud, Adriano Contreras. Our general manager is Julie Crosby. Our director is Becca Staley. Thanks to Miriam Barnard, Paul Powell, Mike Di Filippo, Miguel Nogueira, Hugh Gran, Denis Moynihan, David Prude and Dennis McCormick. Please be safe. Wear a mask. I’m Amy Goodman. Thanks for joining us.


democracynow--2020-11-20--Astra Taylor: As Trump Tries to Steal Election, We Need to Reform Our "Deeply Undemocratic" System

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : Astra , before you go , I wanted to ask you about what ’ s happening now with President Trump and whether you see it as a very grave threat .
You made the film What Is Democracy ?
You have President now inviting to the White House today the leaders of the Michigan legislature .
He calls a low-level head of the Wayne County Board that wanted to invalidate the votes from Detroit , the large African American vote , then @ @ @ @ @ @ @ massive public outcry across the political spectrum .
And then Trump called her .
And again , has called the Michigan legislators to Washington , D.C. , today .
Biden won the state by well over 150,000 votes .
One of Trump ’ s lawyers is calling for legislatures in swing states to disregard the popular vote in order to appoint Trump supporters to the electoral college .
Why don ’ t we end with how serious is this and how serious is this as a threat to democracy , and if you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ succeed as he bunkers down in the White House , not seen by the public for days .
ASTRA TAYLOR : I think this is a very serious threat to democracy .
I mean , Trump , even if he is not successful , will do incredibly lasting damage .
Part of the goal is to undermine the sense of legitimacy of this election , to sow confusion .
But I think he is also pointing to something that we have to take really seriously , which is the way our Constitution is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ work .
I have been very concerned with democracy .
I have written a lot about it in recent years , made this film .
And I think we too rarely pay attention to the structures of our political system and just how deeply undemocratic they are .
We are focused every four years on getting out the vote , on ensuring people vote .
That ’ s very important in a society where there is so much voter suppression , where voter suppression is so racist .
It ’ s aimed specifically @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Because , ultimately , this is a society with progressive majorities ; that ’ s just not reflected in our governance .
But we need to pay attention not just to access to the ballot box , but reforming these political structures .
Because the fact is that the legislatures do appoint electors .
And the fact is the electoral college is deeply undemocratic .
So somehow we have to build social movements .
We have a lot to do as social movements , but one thing we have to do is really @ @ @ @ @ @ @ reform .
We need to think not just about accessing the ballot , but making the rules of the game more democratic .
Because that will help all of our other movements .
The things we care about flow from that , whether it is addressing climate change or whether it is creating a society where debtors are not as dispossessed and abused as they are .
If we want economic equality , that will flow from these questions of our political system .
So in that sense , I hope that this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I don ’ t think he ’ s going to succeed , but it points to potential disasters down the road and we need to start fighting those fights now .
AMY GOODMAN : Astra Taylor , we want to thank you for being with us , organizer with the Debt Collective , author of the foreword of their new book Can ’ t Pay , Won ’ t Pay : The Case for Economic Disobedience and Debt Abolition .
We ’ re going to link to your op-ed in The Guardian which @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Biden won ’ t be able to achieve much .
We must reject that idea .
Also the director of the film What is Democracy ?
and author of the book Democracy May Not Exist , but We ’ ll Miss It When It ’ s Gone .
When we come back , we go to Cairo .
The leading Egyptian human rights group has been arrested , its leader , in an unprecedented crackdown .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Astra, before you go, I wanted to ask you about what’s happening now with President Trump and whether you see it as a very grave threat. You made the film What Is Democracy? You have President now inviting to the White House today the leaders of the Michigan Legislature. He calls a low-level head of the Wayne County board that wanted to invalidate the votes from Detroit, the large African American vote, then was pushed back from doing that by massive public outcry across the political spectrum. And then Trump called her and, again, has called the Michigan legislators to Washington, D.C., today. Biden won the state by well over 150,000 votes. One of Trump’s lawyers is calling for legislatures in swing states to disregard the popular vote in order to appoint Trump supporters to the Electoral College. Why don’t we end with how serious is this and how serious is this as a threat to democracy, and if you think there is any possibility he will succeed, as he bunkers down in the White House, not seen by the public for days.
ASTRA TAYLOR: I think this is a very serious threat to democracy. I mean, Trump, even if he’s not successful, will do incredibly lasting damage. Part of the goal is to undermine the sense of legitimacy of this election, to sow confusion. But I think he’s also pointing to something that we have to take really seriously, which is the way our Constitution is designed and the way our elections actually work. I have been very concerned with democracy. I’ve written a lot about it in recent years, made this film. And I think we too rarely pay attention to the structures of our political system and just how deeply undemocratic they are.
We are focused every four years on getting out the vote, on ensuring people vote. That’s very important in a society where there’s so much voter suppression, where voter suppression is so racist. It’s aimed specifically at diluting the impact of progressives, because, ultimately, this is a society with progressive majorities, right? That’s just not reflected in our governance.
But we need to pay attention not just to access to the ballot box, but reforming these political structures, because the fact is that the legislatures do appoint electors. And the fact is, the Electoral College is deeply undemocratic. So, somehow we have to build social movements. We have a lot to do as social movements, but one thing we have to do is really start taking seriously the challenge of democratic reform. We need to think not just about accessing the ballot, but making the rules of the game more democratic, because that will help all of our other movements.
The things we care about flow from that, whether it’s addressing climate change or whether it is creating a society where debtors are not as dispossessed and abused as they are. If we want economic equality, that will flow from these questions of our political system. So, in that sense, I hope that this can serve as a wake-up call. I don’t think he’s going to succeed, but it points to potential disasters down the road, and we need to start fighting those fights now.
AMY GOODMAN: Astra Taylor, we want to thank you for being with us, organizer with the Debt Collective, author of the foreword of their new book, Can’t Pay, Won’t Pay: The Case for Economic Disobedience and Debt Abolition. We’re going to link to your op-ed in The Guardian, which is headlined “We’re being told Biden won’t be able to achieve much. We must reject that idea.” Also the director of the film What Is Democracy? and author of the book Democracy May Not Exist, But We’ll Miss It When It’s Gone.
When we come back, we go to Cairo. The leading Egyptian human rights group has been arrested, its leader, in an unprecedented crackdown. Stay with us.