democracynow--2020-12-04--Colonization Fueled Ebola: Dr. Paul Farmer on "Fevers, Feuds & Diamonds" & Lessons from West Africa

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Our guest for the hour , Dr. Paul Farmer , infectious disease doctor , renowned medical anthropologist , has written numerous books .
I carried his Uses of Haiti around with me in Haiti , and as I finished chapters , I would take them out of the book , rip them out , to lighten my load , and leave them for people @ @ @ @ @ @ @ latest book is Fevers , Feuds , and Diamonds : Ebola and the Ravages of History .
Dr. Farmer is chair of global health and social medicine at Harvard Medical School and co-founder and chief strategist of Partners in Health , which works in countries around the world .
Fevers , Feuds , and Diamonds : Ebola and the Ravages of History .
Take us on the journey you took , Paul , as you wrote this book .
DR. PAUL FARMER : Well , you know , I wrote the book , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Leone .
And as chance would have it — and I think we talked about this in 2014 — I was in Sierra Leone in June of 2014 , but for an unrelated matter .
I was there for a surgical conference , which I was involved , in part , in organizing .
And I remember folks coming to the conference saying , “ You know , there ’ s already Ebola in the neighboring countries .
Should we really have it ?
Is it a safe venue ?
” And my @ @ @ @ @ @ @ get Ebola through medical conferences , but through caregiving — that is , nursing the sick and burying the dead — and that we would be OK .
Shortly after that , I left , went back home to Rwanda .
And as you will recall , my colleague , Humarr Khan , Sierra Leone ’ s leading infectious disease doctor , died of the disease on July 29th .
And I began lobbying my own friends and co-workers to join in on the fight .
And so , I will add , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to get there , in my view , and arrived in October .
And what I saw then , in both Liberia and Sierra Leone , was just terrifying .
It ’ s not like there ’ s a terror with a respiratory virus that ’ s invisible .
That terror comes when someone is sickened and fell ill .
But there , in the midst of this clinical desert , there were times when we saw people collapse in the street , and knew that it was likely or possibly from Ebola @ @ @ @ @ @ @ know , waited for those fully masked and gowned to come and help people .
Now , that was not during the time which would follow in a couple of weeks in the Ebola treatment units and community care centers and abandoned public hospitals .
We ’ re still doing a lot of that work today .
But the reason I wrote the book was I got to know a number of patients quite well .
And as they recovered , we became , very often , friends , that initial group that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I met in Ebola treatment units in the course of the worst weeks of the epidemic .
And one of them , a young man named Ibrahim , on the night that I met him , told me that he had lost more than 20 members of his family to Ebola , and asked me to interview him .
And even though , as you point out , I ’ m an anthropologist as well as a physician , that was a very unusual kind of experience to have someone who just experienced @ @ @ @ @ @ @ make such a request .
And that kind of convinced me that these stories from West Africa and the history of the place would be an important thing for me to learn about .
And that was the genesis of the book .
AMY GOODMAN : And so , talk about Ebola , the outbreak and then how it was contained .
You talk about it as the “ caregivers ’ disease.
” DR. PAUL FARMER : Well , Ebola , like the coronavirus , is an RNA virus .
And also , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is , they come from other species , animal species , and then leap into humans .
And if you look , stand back and look , a lot of the diseases that cause the highest number of deaths among humans have these zoonotic roots .
And Ebola is one of those .
Its natural host is still disputed .
It may be a bat .
You know , that seems plausible .
But in the midst of all that , its origins , in what species it came from , was not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ task at hand there was stopping transmission from person to person , because once introduced into the human family , Ebola spreads easily through contact .
And the two main sources of exposure are caregiving — first , you know , nursing the sick , cleaning up after them , and , second , the last act of caregiving , in most parts of the world and in most religious traditions , is burying the dead .
And those were causing the transmission .
Now , the problem there , unlike the United @ @ @ @ @ @ @ professional caregivers , and there were not professional undertakers or morticians , so , of course , family members and traditional healers had to fill in that gap .
And that ’ s why so many people got sick and so many traditional healers got sick .
And then , of course , the professional caregivers also experienced enormous risk .
It wasn ’ t just Dr. Khan .
It was thousands and thousands of nurses , laboratory technicians , ambulance drivers and doctors .
And of the thousand or so that got @ @ @ @ @ @ @ than half of them died .
So , that ’ s , again , another huge loss for any country , but if you ’ re living in a medical desert and don ’ t have a lot of physicians and nurses and lab techs and ambulance drivers , it ’ s really something .
Going back to the U.N. secretary-general ’ s comments about COVID , the effects of that will be felt for years and decades , if we don ’ t step in and work to build those health systems @ @ @ @ @ @ @ don ’ t know if that ’ s a — sorry .
AMY GOODMAN : Certainly , as we ’ ve learned , dealing with health , with epidemics , with pandemics , if people have any questions about whether altruism is a motivation , we just understand we are all connected .
You , Dr. Farmer , talk in your book about colonization , the slave trade , the catastrophic consequences on African nations .
Talk about — though this is not usually talked about in health terms , you put the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Yeah .
Well , let me just start , Amy , by saying that during the epidemic , the great majority of our attention , and certainly mine , was on the clinical response — that is , trying to make sure that Ebola treatment units , at least the ones with which we were affiliated , were not only places for isolation , but places for care .
And care for Ebola is not rocket science , even without what are called specific therapies , like an antiviral , like remdesivir , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ without specific therapies , the interventions that are required to save the lives of the majority of Ebola patients are to replace the fluids that they ’ ve lost through nausea , vomiting , diarrhea , sweating — right ?
— the torrid heat of the area .
All those losses of fluids and electrolytes are what really imperil the lives of those sickened with Ebola in the short term .
And we have therapies for that .
They ’ ve been around for a hundred years .
They ’ ve been improved @ @ @ @ @ @ @ oral rehydration salts , what you probably call Pedialyte , are important .
And for those who can not take oral medications , because they ’ re nauseated or vomiting or in a coma , there are IV solutions that can save lives in that manner .
And even that was not happening across the region .
And there were reasons for that , right ?
People were frightened .
And anything that involved a sharp — that is , a needle , to put in an IV , for example , or @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to healthcare workers , right ?
But it would have been better just to say , “ Hey , we ’ re frightened , ” because anyone in their right mind would be frightened .
But instead , we started having arguments about what kind of care was the appropriate care .
And the arguments , I mean , especially within what are called the international actors — which doesn ’ t mean Academy Award-winning actors , but the NGOs and humanitarian groups that had flooded this region after the civil wars that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ then returned , obviously sometimes a different cast of characters , including ones that we know well , like the CDC — came back , just a decade after this conflict ended , to be involved in the Ebola response .
And I made the argument in the book that the response was hampered by the fact that the attention was largely to containment , not to care .
And , of course , this generated very painful echoes from colonial rule , which in that part of the world was largely a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ remote history , as you know .
So , in order to improve the quality of containment efforts , we should have focused more on the quality of care .
And , you know , we ’ re going to face that when the next epidemic of Ebola comes along .
AMY GOODMAN : Your description of people , the life histories of the Ebola survivors , is deeply moving .
Can you talk about Ibrahim Kamara and Yabom Koroma , some of the people that you dedicate this book to ?
DR. @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , it ’ s not always been easy to talk about them , because they endured such losses , and they were not easy to hear about .
Of course , having been involved in their care , I thought I knew something about their losses , but it turns out there were many more .
And I had an epiphany , which I ’ m embarrassed to share .
But , of course , it wasn ’ t long before we understood that every adult patient that we cared for who survived @ @ @ @ @ @ @ had also survived a brutal civil war .
And when I started talking with Ibrahim , who is the very man I mentioned earlier , who ’ s the person , really , in a way , who inspired me to write this book , I couldn ’ t believe the details , and spent many , many months — and in the case of Yabom , years — interviewing and learning about them .
And , of course , this happens over time .
But Yabom ’ s story was different .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ say , Ibrahim was probably 26 when he fell ill with Ebola , and did not have children of his own .
His most grievous losses were his mother , his siblings , family members , grandparents , aunts , uncles .
Yabom , on the other hand , was 39 , and she lost , in addition to her husband , some of her children , her mother also , and other family members .
And what I learned about these two was that they moved between villages and the capital city @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and even during the epidemic , because , very often , they were called to perform those caregiving services for afflicted members of their family .
And again , in the case of those who perish , who was going to bury them at the time that they fell ill ?
And this was in August of 2014 .
So , they faced these impossible choices — another reason it was difficult and painful to write about them — choices that I ’ ve never faced , like : Do we respect our @ @ @ @ @ @ @ buried in her home village ?
And , of course , that was also against the recommendations of public health authorities .
But there wasn ’ t enough in the way of assistance with caregiving or with respectful burial of the dead until later in the epidemic .
And so , their compassion led to their own infections and to infections among other members of their families .
Now , I will add , Amy , that , of course , I still am friends with these people , and they ’ ve @ @ @ @ @ @ @ almost lost her eyesight , as well , because , as I think we discussed when we were together in August of 2014 to talk about Ebola , one of the complications is a blinding inflammation , that can be readily treated with steroids and eyedrops that cost pennies or a dollar to save someone ’ s vision .
So there were lots of complications , to say nothing of grief and psychological and emotional complications .
There were lots of complications that endured in the months after the epidemic was declared brought @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Farmer , you write that every American and most Europeans who fell ill with Ebola in West Africa survived .
“ Different mortality outcomes emerged from the same strain of Ebola , depending on care that was or wasn ’ t available depending on your country of origin.
” If you can explain this , and then expand that to what we are seeing today in this country , for example , also on the issue of racial differentials and disparities ?
DR. PAUL FARMER : Well , you know , this is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ grapple with or our trainees in clinical medicine , you know , which is case fatality rate , because case fatality rate is a report card on the quality of the medical system , right ?
And there are many parts to that — referral to a clinical facility able to manage complications .
And we ’ re going to be facing the same challenge in the coming weeks .
If hospitals become saturated , if we don ’ t flatten the curve , then they become overwhelmed .
And not only do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ caring for those sickened by the pandemic — or , in the case of Ebola , the epidemic — they also fail to provide the services that people need for other problems , other illnesses and injuries .
And we saw a lot of that during Ebola , but we ’ ve also seen it in the United States once our hospitals in New England and New York became overwhelmed .
And that ’ s , of course , exactly what happened in West Africa , as well .
It just happened earlier @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s just the first part of the equation .
You know , case fatality rate is a marker , a report card , on what happens after you get infected , right ?
We also have racial disparities and other social disparities , as you ’ ve noted , in risk of infection .
So , all along that noxious path , we have to make interventions that lessen the risk for infection , but also that lessen the risk for a bad outcome once infected .
And I think that is the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as it was a goal during Ebola .
Now , why am I bringing this up as a controversial matter ?
Because if the report card is only about disease control — that is , stopping the epidemic — and not about survival once infected , why is it that people would go to an Ebola treatment unit to be isolated , if they fear they will not receive care ?
And the answer is , they won ’ t .
Right ?
And this was not new .
Treatment centers and treatment @ @ @ @ @ @ @ facilities proliferated across the continent of Africa during — under colonial rule and remained a feature there even after the end of colonial rule .
And that pathology of focusing on disease control over care , I think , really weakened the epidemic .
With coronavirus in the United States , on the other hand , we do have to look carefully at case fatality rate .
As you ’ ve seen , it has been all over the map .
And I believe it will be better during this current surge , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
But we don ’ t have a control-over-care pathology — DR. PAUL FARMER : We don ’ t have a control-over-care system here .
We have containment nihilism , giving up on containment too early .
AMY GOODMAN : We want to thank you so much for being with us .
And there ’ s so much more to discuss .
I encourage people to read Dr. Paul Farmer ’ s book , Fevers , Feuds , and Diamonds : Ebola and the Ravages of History .
He ’ s an infectious @ @ @ @ @ @ @ anthropologist .
He is chair of global health and social medicine at Harvard Medical School , co-founder and chief strategist of Partners in Health , also featured in the documentary Bending the Arc .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Thanks for joining us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman. Our guest for the hour, Dr. Paul Farmer, infectious disease doctor, renowned medical anthropologist, has written numerous books. I carried his Uses of Haiti around with me in Haiti, and as I finished chapters, I would take them out of the book, rip them out, to lighten my load, and leave them for people to read in different places. His latest book is Fevers, Feuds, and Diamonds: Ebola and the Ravages of History. Dr. Farmer is chair of global health and social medicine at Harvard Medical School and co-founder and chief strategist of Partners in Health, which works in countries around the world. Fevers, Feuds, and Diamonds: Ebola and the Ravages of History. Take us on the journey you took, Paul, as you wrote this book.
DR. PAUL FARMER: Well, you know, I wrote the book, a lot of it, in Sierra Leone. And as chance would have it — and I think we talked about this in 2014 — I was in Sierra Leone in June of 2014, but for an unrelated matter. I was there for a surgical conference, which I was involved, in part, in organizing. And I remember folks coming to the conference saying, “You know, there’s already Ebola in the neighboring countries. Should we really have it? Is it a safe venue?” And my response was that you don’t get Ebola through medical conferences, but through caregiving — that is, nursing the sick and burying the dead — and that we would be OK.
Shortly after that, I left, went back home to Rwanda. And as you will recall, my colleague, Humarr Khan, Sierra Leone’s leading infectious disease doctor, died of the disease on July 29th. And I began lobbying my own friends and co-workers to join in on the fight. And so, I will add, Amy, that we were very tardy to get there, in my view, and arrived in October. And what I saw then, in both Liberia and Sierra Leone, was just terrifying. It’s not like there’s a terror with a respiratory virus that’s invisible. That terror comes when someone is sickened and fell ill. But there, in the midst of this clinical desert, there were times when we saw people collapse in the street, and knew that it was likely or possibly from Ebola and, with some shame, you know, waited for those fully masked and gowned to come and help people. Now, that was not during the time which would follow in a couple of weeks in the Ebola treatment units and community care centers and abandoned public hospitals. We’re still doing a lot of that work today.
But the reason I wrote the book was I got to know a number of patients quite well. And as they recovered, we became, very often, friends, that initial group that I met in October and some that I met in Ebola treatment units in the course of the worst weeks of the epidemic. And one of them, a young man named Ibrahim, on the night that I met him, told me that he had lost more than 20 members of his family to Ebola, and asked me to interview him. And even though, as you point out, I’m an anthropologist as well as a physician, that was a very unusual kind of experience to have someone who just experienced such loss and was still recovering to make such a request. And that kind of convinced me that these stories from West Africa and the history of the place would be an important thing for me to learn about. And that was the genesis of the book.
AMY GOODMAN: And so, talk about Ebola, the outbreak and then how it was contained. You talk about it as the “caregivers’ disease.”
DR. PAUL FARMER: Well, Ebola, like the coronavirus, is an RNA virus. And also, likely, both are zoonoses. That is, they come from other species, animal species, and then leap into humans. And if you look, stand back and look, a lot of the diseases that cause the highest number of deaths among humans have these zoonotic roots. And Ebola is one of those. Its natural host is still disputed. It may be a bat. You know, that seems plausible. But in the midst of all that, its origins, in what species it came from, was not really the task at hand. The task at hand there was stopping transmission from person to person, because once introduced into the human family, Ebola spreads easily through contact.
And the two main sources of exposure are caregiving — first, you know, nursing the sick, cleaning up after them, and, second, the last act of caregiving, in most parts of the world and in most religious traditions, is burying the dead. And those were causing the transmission. Now, the problem there, unlike the United States, is that there were not professional caregivers, and there were not professional undertakers or morticians, so, of course, family members and traditional healers had to fill in that gap. And that’s why so many people got sick and so many traditional healers got sick.
And then, of course, the professional caregivers also experienced enormous risk. It wasn’t just Dr. Khan. It was thousands and thousands of nurses, laboratory technicians, ambulance drivers and doctors. And of the thousand or so that got sick during that time, probably more than half of them died. So, that’s, again, another huge loss for any country, but if you’re living in a medical desert and don’t have a lot of physicians and nurses and lab techs and ambulance drivers, it’s really something. Going back to the U.N. secretary-general’s comments about COVID, the effects of that will be felt for years and decades, if we don’t step in and work to build those health systems again.
AMY GOODMAN: Certainly —
DR. PAUL FARMER: I don’t know if that’s a — sorry.
AMY GOODMAN: Certainly, as we’ve learned, dealing with health, with epidemics, with pandemics, if people have any questions about whether altruism is a motivation, we just understand we are all connected. You, Dr. Farmer, talk in your book about colonization, the slave trade, the catastrophic consequences on African nations. Talk about — though this is not usually talked about in health terms, you put the two together.
DR. PAUL FARMER: Yeah. Well, let me just start, Amy, by saying that during the epidemic, the great majority of our attention, and certainly mine, was on the clinical response — that is, trying to make sure that Ebola treatment units, at least the ones with which we were affiliated, were not only places for isolation, but places for care.
And care for Ebola is not rocket science, even without what are called specific therapies, like an antiviral, like remdesivir, for example, for COVID. Even without specific therapies, the interventions that are required to save the lives of the majority of Ebola patients are to replace the fluids that they’ve lost through nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, sweating — right? — the torrid heat of the area. All those losses of fluids and electrolytes are what really imperil the lives of those sickened with Ebola in the short term. And we have therapies for that. They’ve been around for a hundred years. They’ve been improved over time. You know, these oral rehydration salts, what you probably call Pedialyte, are important. And for those who cannot take oral medications, because they’re nauseated or vomiting or in a coma, there are IV solutions that can save lives in that manner.
And even that was not happening across the region. And there were reasons for that, right? People were frightened. And anything that involved a sharp — that is, a needle, to put in an IV, for example, or a blood draw — poses some risk to healthcare workers, right? But it would have been better just to say, “Hey, we’re frightened,” because anyone in their right mind would be frightened. But instead, we started having arguments about what kind of care was the appropriate care. And the arguments, I mean, especially within what are called the international actors — which doesn’t mean Academy Award-winning actors, but the NGOs and humanitarian groups that had flooded this region after the civil wars that afflicted it for some time, and then returned, obviously sometimes a different cast of characters, including ones that we know well, like the CDC — came back, just a decade after this conflict ended, to be involved in the Ebola response.
And I made the argument in the book that the response was hampered by the fact that the attention was largely to containment, not to care. And, of course, this generated very painful echoes from colonial rule, which in that part of the world was largely a 20th century phenomenon. This is not remote history, as you know. So, in order to improve the quality of containment efforts, we should have focused more on the quality of care. And, you know, we’re going to face that when the next epidemic of Ebola comes along.
AMY GOODMAN: Your description of people, the life histories of the Ebola survivors, is deeply moving. Can you talk about Ibrahim Kamara and Yabom Koroma, some of the people that you dedicate this book to?
DR. PAUL FARMER: Well, you know, it’s not always been easy to talk about them, because they endured such losses, and they were not easy to hear about. Of course, having been involved in their care, I thought I knew something about their losses, but it turns out there were many more. And I had an epiphany, which I’m embarrassed to share. But, of course, it wasn’t long before we understood that every adult patient that we cared for who survived Ebola — or didn’t — had also survived a brutal civil war.
And when I started talking with Ibrahim, who is the very man I mentioned earlier, who’s the person, really, in a way, who inspired me to write this book, I couldn’t believe the details, and spent many, many months — and in the case of Yabom, years — interviewing and learning about them. And, of course, this happens over time. But Yabom’s story was different. If I could just go back and say, Ibrahim was probably 26 when he fell ill with Ebola, and did not have children of his own. His most grievous losses were his mother, his siblings, family members, grandparents, aunts, uncles. Yabom, on the other hand, was 39, and she lost, in addition to her husband, some of her children, her mother also, and other family members.
And what I learned about these two was that they moved between villages and the capital city during the war, after the war and even during the epidemic, because, very often, they were called to perform those caregiving services for afflicted members of their family. And again, in the case of those who perish, who was going to bury them at the time that they fell ill? And this was in August of 2014. So, they faced these impossible choices — another reason it was difficult and painful to write about them — choices that I’ve never faced, like: Do we respect our mother’s dying wish to be buried in her home village? And, of course, that was also against the recommendations of public health authorities. But there wasn’t enough in the way of assistance with caregiving or with respectful burial of the dead until later in the epidemic. And so, their compassion led to their own infections and to infections among other members of their families.
Now, I will add, Amy, that, of course, I still am friends with these people, and they’ve recovered, to varying extents. Yabom almost lost her eyesight, as well, because, as I think we discussed when we were together in August of 2014 to talk about Ebola, one of the complications is a blinding inflammation, that can be readily treated with steroids and eyedrops that cost pennies or a dollar to save someone’s vision. So there were lots of complications, to say nothing of grief and psychological and emotional complications. There were lots of complications that endured in the months after the epidemic was declared brought under control.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Farmer, you write that every American and most Europeans who fell ill with Ebola in West Africa survived. “Different mortality outcomes emerged from the same strain of Ebola, depending on care that was or wasn’t available depending on your country of origin.” If you can explain this, and then expand that to what we are seeing today in this country, for example, also on the issue of racial differentials and disparities?
DR. PAUL FARMER: Well, you know, this is something that I encourage my students to grapple with or our trainees in clinical medicine, you know, which is case fatality rate, because case fatality rate is a report card on the quality of the medical system, right? And there are many parts to that — referral to a clinical facility able to manage complications.
And we’re going to be facing the same challenge in the coming weeks. If hospitals become saturated, if we don’t flatten the curve, then they become overwhelmed. And not only do they perform more poorly in terms of caring for those sickened by the pandemic — or, in the case of Ebola, the epidemic — they also fail to provide the services that people need for other problems, other illnesses and injuries. And we saw a lot of that during Ebola, but we’ve also seen it in the United States once our hospitals in New England and New York became overwhelmed. And that’s, of course, exactly what happened in West Africa, as well. It just happened earlier and more devastatingly.
But that’s just the first part of the equation. You know, case fatality rate is a marker, a report card, on what happens after you get infected, right? We also have racial disparities and other social disparities, as you’ve noted, in risk of infection. So, all along that noxious path, we have to make interventions that lessen the risk for infection, but also that lessen the risk for a bad outcome once infected. And I think that is the goal before us with COVID-19, just as it was a goal during Ebola.
Now, why am I bringing this up as a controversial matter? Because if the report card is only about disease control — that is, stopping the epidemic — and not about survival once infected, why is it that people would go to an Ebola treatment unit to be isolated, if they fear they will not receive care? And the answer is, they won’t. Right? And this was not new. Treatment centers and treatment units that were really isolation and quarantine facilities proliferated across the continent of Africa during — under colonial rule and remained a feature there even after the end of colonial rule. And that pathology of focusing on disease control over care, I think, really weakened the epidemic.
With coronavirus in the United States, on the other hand, we do have to look carefully at case fatality rate. As you’ve seen, it has been all over the map. And I believe it will be better during this current surge, because people are more experienced, right? But we don’t have a control-over-care pathology —
AMY GOODMAN: We have 10 seconds, Paul.
DR. PAUL FARMER: We don’t have a control-over-care system here. We have containment nihilism, giving up on containment too early.
AMY GOODMAN: We want to thank you so much for being with us. And there’s so much more to discuss. I encourage people to read Dr. Paul Farmer’s book, Fevers, Feuds, and Diamonds: Ebola and the Ravages of History. He’s an infectious disease doc. He is a medical anthropologist. He is chair of global health and social medicine at Harvard Medical School, co-founder and chief strategist of Partners in Health, also featured in the documentary Bending the Arc. I’m Amy Goodman. Thanks for joining us.


democracynow--2020-12-04--Dr. Paul Farmer: Centuries of Inequality in the U.S. Laid Groundwork for Pandemic Devastation

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
We turn right now to a remarkable book .
It ’ s called Fevers , Feuds , and Diamonds .
The United States has set yet another world record for daily coronavirus cases and hospitalizations with over 216,000 infections confirmed Thursday and more than 2,800 deaths .
Nearly 101,000 people are hospitalized with COVID-19 across the United States .
In California , Governor Gavin @ @ @ @ @ @ @ The Navajo Nation has requested a major disaster declaration from the federal government , facing medical supply shortages and surging case numbers .
Here in New York City , the positive test rate is the highest it ’ s been since May , with officials warning of a second wave .
On Thursday , President-elect Joe Biden told CNN he would ask Americans to wear masks for his first 100 days in office .
AMY GOODMAN : President-elect Biden also announced Dr. Anthony Fauci , the director of the National Institute of Allergy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ key role in his administration ’ s response to coronavirus .
This comes as the race towards vaccination continues .
Earlier this week , the United Kingdom became the first country to approve the use of the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine .
Authorities said the first 800,000 doses will become available across the U.K. starting next week .
As the U.S. also prepares to begin issuing vaccinations , starting with healthcare workers and nursing homes , concerns are growing about equitable distribution of the vaccine , especially to the Global South .
Well , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we go to Miami , Florida , where we ’ re joined by the world-renowned infectious diseases doctor and medical anthropologist , Paul Farmer .
He ’ s chair of global health and social medicine at Harvard Medical School and co-founder of Partners in Health , an international nonprofit organization that provides direct healthcare services to those who are sick and living in poverty .
Dr. Farmer co-founded the group in 1987 to deliver healthcare to people in Haiti .
In 2014 , he traveled to West Africa to treat Ebola patients .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ killed more than 11,000 people , most in Sierra Leone , Guinea and Liberia .
In his new book , just published , about the Ebola epidemic , Farmer looks not only at the modern-day crisis , but at the decades of colonialism and extraction that fueled it .
The book is titled Fevers , Feuds , and Diamonds : Ebola and the Ravages of History .
Dr. Paul Farmer , welcome back to Democracy Now !
It ’ s great to have you with us .
DR. PAUL FARMER : Thank you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to be back .
AMY GOODMAN : Well , this is a true magnum opus .
It is an epic work .
And before we go deeply into what we can learn from based on how Ebola was dealt with , I wanted actually to go to the epilogue of your book , which is what we are living in today , in this country and around the world , this unprecedented pandemic .
And as we speak today , Paul , all records have been shattered — not in the poorest countries @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in the wealthiest country in the world .
Over 2,800 people have died .
We have less than 5 % of the world ’ s population but nearly 20 % of the world ’ s infections and deaths .
How is this possible ?
DR. PAUL FARMER : Well , I mean , we are facing the consequences of decades and decades of underinvestment in public health and of centuries of misallocation of funds away from those who need that help most .
And , you know , all the social pathologies of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ epidemics .
And during a pandemic like this one , we ’ re going to be showing the rest of the world , warts and all , how — we have shown the rest of the world how badly we can do .
And now we have to rally , use new tools that are coming online , but address some of the older pathologies of our care delivery system and of our country .
I think that ’ s where we are right now .
AMY GOODMAN : In your epilogue , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ only means of fighting a plague , ' observes Dr. Rieux , the protagonist of Albert Camus ’ s novel , set in a fictional Algerian city , is 'common decency . '
” And I thought about that in relation to national policy .
You have President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris yesterday talking about what they will do .
Now , he has long known Dr. Fauci , who will play a key role .
Vivek Murthy was just being named the surgeon general .
He ’ s saying @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they will ask the entire U.S. population to wear masks .
And yet this flies directly counter to what President Trump is doing right now , who will hold scores of holiday parties inside the White House .
The secretary of state , Mike Pompeo , has invited nearly a thousand people to the State Department for holiday parties .
Of course , this is inside .
It ’ s winter .
We are not just talking about what the future will look like .
President Trump is in office for another almost @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 3,000 people dying a day , we ’ re talking about tens of thousands of more needless deaths .
What needs to happen right now in the United States ?
DR. PAUL FARMER : Well , first of all , you know , I think that it ’ s a great tragedy that such matters as masking or social distancing or even shutting down parts of the economy , that contribute to risk but are — it ’ s just a shame that that ’ s been politicized .
These are not political @ @ @ @ @ @ @ health strategies .
Right now they ’ re all we ’ ve got .
But even when the vaccine is online or begins to come online , we have no history of seeing a vaccine taken up so rapidly that it would alter the fundamental dynamics of a respiratory illness like this .
So , we ’ re facing , as President-elect Biden said , a long , dark winter .
And if we can make a difference that could spare tens of thousands and perhaps more than 150,000 lives , then we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not these are called mask mandates or pleading from the president , we need state and local authorities to come together and underline the nonpartisan and life-saving nature of some of these basic protective measures .
We need to invest very heavily in making sure the vaccine goes to those who need it most and those who have been shut out of previous developments like this or shut out for too long .
So we have a lot of work ahead of us this winter , but no small amount of it is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ communities to take up some of these measures rapidly to make sure that the dark winter does not lead to a blighted spring .
AMY GOODMAN : Dr. Farmer , can you comment quickly on these vaccines , for people to understand , the first what ’ s called mRNA , messenger RNA , vaccines , what they actually do in the human body ?
Do they make you immune , or you can get sick and be a carrier , but you , yourself — I mean , you can be infected @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , yourself , will not get very sick ?
Explain the choice of who gets the vaccine , also the fact that this has not been studied in children , people under 14 , and so what this means for kids .
DR. PAUL FARMER : Well , in general terms , let me just say that in the 30-plus years I ’ ve been involved in this work , I ’ ve never seen such a rapid development of a novel preventive for a novel vaccine .
So there ’ s a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ global effort to come together to develop new vaccines .
Again in general terms , the idea is that instead of having a natural infection — in this case , breathing in the novel coronavirus and getting sick , which leads to the outcomes that we know : death or recovery with sequelae — it also leads probably to immunity .
That ’ s what it ’ s like with other viral infections in humans , or almost all of them .
So , what the vaccine does is introduce something that will @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s being invaded by the virus — in this case , it ’ s focused on a particular protein on the outer surface of the virus — and generate that immune response , which is often robust and enduring , at least with other viruses .
Now , in the case of any novel pathogen , we don ’ t know for sure how long that immunity lasts , right ?
I mean , how could you ?
It hasn ’ t been studied for long .
But we know about other @ @ @ @ @ @ @ those .
And in the case of this new vaccine or this new type of vaccines , the mRNA vaccine , we ’ re also dealing with that unknown .
This is a new kind of vaccination .
This is a new approach .
It ’ s very exciting , in part because it seems to confer that immunity without significant adverse effects .
So , I think , again , on the side of development of a novel technology , these vaccines , whether mRNA vaccines or others , are great news @ @ @ @ @ @ @ influence a new generation of vaccines for other pathogens , particularly viral pathogens , which tend to be the worst ones among humans .
So , that ’ s where we are with the development of new technology .
Unfortunately , as I said and as you ’ ve underlined many times , Amy , the old pathologies of our society make it unlikely that the rollout will be smooth and evenly taken up across various communities , some of them with well-founded fears and mistrust of any kind of public health campaign @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a bit of a pickle .
I ’ m optimistic about what will happen in this country , but as you pointed out in opening up the hour , a lot of us are concerned with what ’ s going to happen in the Global South and among those who might as well be considered living in the Global South in wealthy and egalitarian countries like the United States and parts of Europe .
So , it ’ s going to be a rocky winter , with some highs and lows .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ lows .
I hope there ’ s more reason for celebration than for grief .
But I think it ’ s going to be a very , very difficult winter .
AMY GOODMAN : On Thursday , the United Nations Secretary-General António Guterres criticized countries that rejected COVID-19 facts and the World Health Organization ’ s recommendations .
AMY GOODMAN : So , that ’ s the U.N. secretary-general .
I mean , it ’ s very interesting that the United States , the most horrific record in the world now on COVID-19 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in the world — Brazil , Jair Bolsonaro ; you have Narendra Modi in India ; you have Boris Johnson , who was in intensive care himself and then switched his kind of herd immunity approach , one that President Trump is taking in this country , not through vaccines , but through , essentially , just leaving the population and letting COVID-19 rip through our country .
You have the science-denying leaders , a number of them authoritarian , and the effects in those countries , and also , though , places @ @ @ @ @ @ @ vaccines in the world .
If you , Dr. Farmer , can talk about Trump pulling out of the World Health Organization and also what that means when the wealthiest countries then buy up the available vaccines ?
DR. PAUL FARMER : Well , first of all , wealthy countries buying up the available vaccines is nothing new .
And that ’ s why there have been a number of efforts to make sure that doesn ’ t happen with these new crop of vaccines to prevent COVID-19 .
And that ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I mentioned for the coming months .
And again , it will happen within countries in addition to between countries .
Another thing that I would say as a sort of pushback is that vaccines do not require cognitive change to be effective , right ?
So , whether you attribute COVID or polio or measles to , let ’ s say , even sorcery , or whether — sorry that sounds like a stretch , Amy , but it ’ s something I ’ ve heard again and again — once the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to work the same within those who understand the nature of the disease and its origins and those who don ’ t .
And that basic point , I think , is important , because we do have to address vaccine hesitancy , but we don ’ t have to convince people that , for example , this is an RNA virus that comes in through the respiratory route and that you can develop immunity .
Those are parallel activities , if you ask me , to an effort to make sure that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ global equity platform , for distributing the virus — sorry , distributing the vaccine .
And then , back to the point that you made , which is about science deniers who are in leadership positions , that makes not only vaccine distribution difficult .
It makes research difficult .
It makes common and shared understandings of how diseases work difficult .
So it ’ s something that we should deplore and try to get rid of in our public discourse .
But we still have to proceed with the vaccine distribution , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a lot of culture and cognitive changes in the short term .
And that ’ s something , you know , I saw , Amy , in West Africa during the Ebola crisis , where very often — as you read in that book , very often people did attribute their illness or their family member ’ s illness to events and processes that had nothing to do with an infectious pathogen .
I ’ ve seen that all over the world .
But when there were rules applied around social distancing , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to be conducted , when those rules were applied and when there was better care provided for those afflicted , that ’ s when we started to see some decline in the incidence of Ebola in West Africa .
And I just want to underline that we don ’ t have to make everybody who gets this vaccine an expert in virology or vaccinology .
We need to get them protected .
AMY GOODMAN : And just before we go to this remarkable book about dealing with Ebola and what it meant , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ rights , about patents and about countries like South Africa and India pushing for a temporary suspension of intellectual property rights and patents so that COVID-19 vaccines and medications become more accessible , particularly in the Global South .
DR. PAUL FARMER : Well , I ’ d just like to say something we ’ ve had a chance to discuss before in previous years .
You know , when you look at what happened around HIV , which by 1995 , '96 , those of us in the infectious disease world understood @ @ @ @ @ @ @ therapy — like as with diabetes requiring insulin , you 'd have to keep taking it , but this would save millions of lives , and maybe even more , and prevent transmission of mother to child — the same debates about intellectual property of course came up then .
The average wholesale price for a three-drug regimen in the years immediately after the discovery of these new agents was $ 15,000 , sometimes $ 20,000 , per person per year .
So , if you split your time between Harvard and Haiti @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you would imagine , if you couldn ’ t have an imagination beyond conventional property rights discussion , that the majority of the world would be shut out of access to this therapy .
And , of course , that made the most difference , on a continent level , in Africa , where the majority of people living with HIV and dying with HIV were at the time .
And what happened later was the production of generic versions of these drugs , often in India or China or even South Africa @ @ @ @ @ @ @ much lower cost could be tied to the same agents .
And when I say “ much lower , ” I mean a reduction , really even within those early years , from $ 15,000 to $ 20,000 , to about $ 300 per person per year .
And with groups like the Clinton Foundation getting involved , those prices dropped even further .
And right now you can get a really good three-drug regimen , even with some pediatric formulations for children , for about $ 60 per patient per year .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ a long time , but it didn ’ t take a long time in terms of the impact that it could have .
Millions and millions of lives , maybe even 16 to 20 million lives , are being saved by these drugs .
But in some places , like Rwanda , where I ’ ve spent 10 years , you saw the virtual eradication of AIDS among children , because if mom is on therapy , the transmission to babies in utero , or through breastfeeding probably , really does not occur @ @ @ @ @ @ @ development .
This has already happened in Rwanda , which is a very poor country with a very robust public health and care delivery system .
AMY GOODMAN : We ’ re going to go to break , and when we come back , we ’ re going to talk about Fevers , Feuds , and Diamonds : Ebola and the Ravages of History .
Our guest for the hour , Dr. Paul Farmer .
Stay with us .
AMY GOODMAN : “ Lying on the Truth ” by Rance Allen .
He @ @ @ @ @

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
We turn right now to a remarkable book. It’s called Fevers, Feuds, and Diamonds. The United States has set yet another world record for daily coronavirus cases and hospitalizations with over 216,000 infections confirmed Thursday and more than 2,800 deaths. Nearly 101,000 people are hospitalized with COVID-19 across the United States. In California, Governor Gavin Newsom has issued sweeping remain-at-home orders. The Navajo Nation has requested a major disaster declaration from the federal government, facing medical supply shortages and surging case numbers. Here in New York City, the positive test rate is the highest it’s been since May, with officials warning of a second wave.
On Thursday, President-elect Joe Biden told CNN he would ask Americans to wear masks for his first 100 days in office.
PRESIDENT-ELECT JOE BIDEN: My first day I’m inaugurated to say I’m going to ask the public for 100 days to mask. Just 100 days to mask, not forever. One hundred days. And I think we’ll see a significant reduction if we occur that — if that occurs, with vaccinations and masking, to drive down the numbers considerably.
AMY GOODMAN: President-elect Biden also announced Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, will play a key role in his administration’s response to coronavirus.
This comes as the race towards vaccination continues. Earlier this week, the United Kingdom became the first country to approve the use of the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine. Authorities said the first 800,000 doses will become available across the U.K. starting next week. As the U.S. also prepares to begin issuing vaccinations, starting with healthcare workers and nursing homes, concerns are growing about equitable distribution of the vaccine, especially to the Global South.
Well, for more on the COVID-19 crisis, we go to Miami, Florida, where we’re joined by the world-renowned infectious diseases doctor and medical anthropologist, Paul Farmer. He’s chair of global health and social medicine at Harvard Medical School and co-founder of Partners in Health, an international nonprofit organization that provides direct healthcare services to those who are sick and living in poverty. Dr. Farmer co-founded the group in 1987 to deliver healthcare to people in Haiti. In 2014, he traveled to West Africa to treat Ebola patients. Between 2014 and ’16, Ebola killed more than 11,000 people, most in Sierra Leone, Guinea and Liberia. In his new book, just published, about the Ebola epidemic, Farmer looks not only at the modern-day crisis, but at the decades of colonialism and extraction that fueled it. The book is titled Fevers, Feuds, and Diamonds: Ebola and the Ravages of History.
Dr. Paul Farmer, welcome back to Democracy Now! It’s great to have you with us.
DR. PAUL FARMER: Thank you, Amy. It’s great to be back.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, this is a true magnum opus. It is an epic work. And before we go deeply into what we can learn from based on how Ebola was dealt with, I wanted actually to go to the epilogue of your book, which is what we are living in today, in this country and around the world, this unprecedented pandemic. And as we speak today, Paul, all records have been shattered — not in the poorest countries in the world, but right here in the wealthiest country in the world. Over 2,800 people have died. We have less than 5% of the world’s population but nearly 20% of the world’s infections and deaths. How is this possible?
DR. PAUL FARMER: Well, I mean, we are facing the consequences of decades and decades of underinvestment in public health and of centuries of misallocation of funds away from those who need that help most. And, you know, all the social pathologies of our nation come to the fore during epidemics. And during a pandemic like this one, we’re going to be showing the rest of the world, warts and all, how — we have shown the rest of the world how badly we can do. And now we have to rally, use new tools that are coming online, but address some of the older pathologies of our care delivery system and of our country. I think that’s where we are right now.
AMY GOODMAN: In your epilogue, you begin by saying, “'The only means of fighting a plague,' observes Dr. Rieux, the protagonist of Albert Camus’s novel, set in a fictional Algerian city, is 'common decency.'” And I thought about that in relation to national policy. You have President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris yesterday talking about what they will do. Now, he has long known Dr. Fauci, who will play a key role. Vivek Murthy was just being named the surgeon general. He’s saying that for the first 100 days, they will ask the entire U.S. population to wear masks. And yet this flies directly counter to what President Trump is doing right now, who will hold scores of holiday parties inside the White House. The secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, has invited nearly a thousand people to the State Department for holiday parties. Of course, this is inside. It’s winter. We are not just talking about what the future will look like. President Trump is in office for another almost two months. When you have nearly 3,000 people dying a day, we’re talking about tens of thousands of more needless deaths. What needs to happen right now in the United States?
DR. PAUL FARMER: Well, first of all, you know, I think that it’s a great tragedy that such matters as masking or social distancing or even shutting down parts of the economy, that contribute to risk but are — it’s just a shame that that’s been politicized. These are not political or partisan actions. They are public health strategies. Right now they’re all we’ve got.
But even when the vaccine is online or begins to come online, we have no history of seeing a vaccine taken up so rapidly that it would alter the fundamental dynamics of a respiratory illness like this. So, we’re facing, as President-elect Biden said, a long, dark winter. And if we can make a difference that could spare tens of thousands and perhaps more than 150,000 lives, then we should do that.
And whether or not these are called mask mandates or pleading from the president, we need state and local authorities to come together and underline the nonpartisan and life-saving nature of some of these basic protective measures. We need to invest very heavily in making sure the vaccine goes to those who need it most and those who have been shut out of previous developments like this or shut out for too long.
So we have a lot of work ahead of us this winter, but no small amount of it is going to rely on individual families and communities to take up some of these measures rapidly to make sure that the dark winter does not lead to a blighted spring.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Farmer, can you comment quickly on these vaccines, for people to understand, the first what’s called mRNA, messenger RNA, vaccines, what they actually do in the human body? Do they make you immune, or you can get sick and be a carrier, but you, yourself — I mean, you can be infected and be a carrier, but you, yourself, will not get very sick? Explain the choice of who gets the vaccine, also the fact that this has not been studied in children, people under 14, and so what this means for kids.
DR. PAUL FARMER: Well, in general terms, let me just say that in the 30-plus years I’ve been involved in this work, I’ve never seen such a rapid development of a novel preventive for a novel vaccine. So there’s a lot to celebrate in terms of the global effort to come together to develop new vaccines.
Again in general terms, the idea is that instead of having a natural infection — in this case, breathing in the novel coronavirus and getting sick, which leads to the outcomes that we know: death or recovery with sequelae — it also leads probably to immunity. That’s what it’s like with other viral infections in humans, or almost all of them. So, what the vaccine does is introduce something that will trick the body into believing that it’s being invaded by the virus — in this case, it’s focused on a particular protein on the outer surface of the virus — and generate that immune response, which is often robust and enduring, at least with other viruses. Now, in the case of any novel pathogen, we don’t know for sure how long that immunity lasts, right? I mean, how could you? It hasn’t been studied for long. But we know about other viruses and can take some lessons from those.
And in the case of this new vaccine or this new type of vaccines, the mRNA vaccine, we’re also dealing with that unknown. This is a new kind of vaccination. This is a new approach. It’s very exciting, in part because it seems to confer that immunity without significant adverse effects. So, I think, again, on the side of development of a novel technology, these vaccines, whether mRNA vaccines or others, are great news, right? And maybe they will influence a new generation of vaccines for other pathogens, particularly viral pathogens, which tend to be the worst ones among humans. So, that’s where we are with the development of new technology.
Unfortunately, as I said and as you’ve underlined many times, Amy, the old pathologies of our society make it unlikely that the rollout will be smooth and evenly taken up across various communities, some of them with well-founded fears and mistrust of any kind of public health campaign. So, we’re in a bit of a pickle. I’m optimistic about what will happen in this country, but as you pointed out in opening up the hour, a lot of us are concerned with what’s going to happen in the Global South and among those who might as well be considered living in the Global South in wealthy and egalitarian countries like the United States and parts of Europe.
So, it’s going to be a rocky winter, with some highs and lows. And I hope there are more highs than lows. I hope there’s more reason for celebration than for grief. But I think it’s going to be a very, very difficult winter.
AMY GOODMAN: On Thursday, the United Nations Secretary-General António Guterres criticized countries that rejected COVID-19 facts and the World Health Organization’s recommendations.
SECRETARY-GENERAL ANTÓNIO GUTERRES: From the start, the World Health Organization provided factual information and scientific guidance that should have been the basis for a coordinated global response. Unfortunately, many of these recommendations were not followed. And in some situations, there was a rejection of facts and an ignorance of the guidance. And when countries go in their own direction, the virus goes in every direction. The social and economic impact of the pandemic is enormous and growing.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s the U.N. secretary-general. I mean, it’s very interesting that the United States, the most horrific record in the world now on COVID-19, and then Trump’s allies in the world — Brazil, Jair Bolsonaro; you have Narendra Modi in India; you have Boris Johnson, who was in intensive care himself and then switched his kind of herd immunity approach, one that President Trump is taking in this country, not through vaccines, but through, essentially, just leaving the population and letting COVID-19 rip through our country. You have the science-denying leaders, a number of them authoritarian, and the effects in those countries, and also, though, places like the United States buying up the vaccines in the world. If you, Dr. Farmer, can talk about Trump pulling out of the World Health Organization and also what that means when the wealthiest countries then buy up the available vaccines?
DR. PAUL FARMER: Well, first of all, wealthy countries buying up the available vaccines is nothing new. And that’s why there have been a number of efforts to make sure that doesn’t happen with these new crop of vaccines to prevent COVID-19. And that’s going to be among the tasks that I mentioned for the coming months. And again, it will happen within countries in addition to between countries.
Another thing that I would say as a sort of pushback is that vaccines do not require cognitive change to be effective, right? So, whether you attribute COVID or polio or measles to, let’s say, even sorcery, or whether — sorry that sounds like a stretch, Amy, but it’s something I’ve heard again and again — once the vaccine is in you, it seems to work the same within those who understand the nature of the disease and its origins and those who don’t. And that basic point, I think, is important, because we do have to address vaccine hesitancy, but we don’t have to convince people that, for example, this is an RNA virus that comes in through the respiratory route and that you can develop immunity. Those are parallel activities, if you ask me, to an effort to make sure that we have an equity platform, a global equity platform, for distributing the virus — sorry, distributing the vaccine.
And then, back to the point that you made, which is about science deniers who are in leadership positions, that makes not only vaccine distribution difficult. It makes research difficult. It makes common and shared understandings of how diseases work difficult. So it’s something that we should deplore and try to get rid of in our public discourse. But we still have to proceed with the vaccine distribution, and knowing that it will not engender a lot of culture and cognitive changes in the short term.
And that’s something, you know, I saw, Amy, in West Africa during the Ebola crisis, where very often — as you read in that book, very often people did attribute their illness or their family member’s illness to events and processes that had nothing to do with an infectious pathogen. I’ve seen that all over the world. But when there were rules applied around social distancing, around PPE, around how burials were to be conducted, when those rules were applied and when there was better care provided for those afflicted, that’s when we started to see some decline in the incidence of Ebola in West Africa.
And I just want to underline that we don’t have to make everybody who gets this vaccine an expert in virology or vaccinology. We need to get them protected.
AMY GOODMAN: And just before we go to this remarkable book about dealing with Ebola and what it meant, I wanted to ask you about property rights, about patents and about countries like South Africa and India pushing for a temporary suspension of intellectual property rights and patents so that COVID-19 vaccines and medications become more accessible, particularly in the Global South.
DR. PAUL FARMER: Well, I’d just like to say something we’ve had a chance to discuss before in previous years. You know, when you look at what happened around HIV, which by 1995, '96, those of us in the infectious disease world understood that this would be a life-saving suppressive therapy — like as with diabetes requiring insulin, you'd have to keep taking it, but this would save millions of lives, and maybe even more, and prevent transmission of mother to child — the same debates about intellectual property of course came up then.
The average wholesale price for a three-drug regimen in the years immediately after the discovery of these new agents was $15,000, sometimes $20,000, per person per year. So, if you split your time between Harvard and Haiti, as I had and do, you would imagine, if you couldn’t have an imagination beyond conventional property rights discussion, that the majority of the world would be shut out of access to this therapy. And, of course, that made the most difference, on a continent level, in Africa, where the majority of people living with HIV and dying with HIV were at the time.
And what happened later was the production of generic versions of these drugs, often in India or China or even South Africa — right? — so that a much lower cost could be tied to the same agents. And when I say “much lower,” I mean a reduction, really even within those early years, from $15,000 to $20,000, to about $300 per person per year. And with groups like the Clinton Foundation getting involved, those prices dropped even further. And right now you can get a really good three-drug regimen, even with some pediatric formulations for children, for about $60 per patient per year.
So, you could say that took a long time, but it didn’t take a long time in terms of the impact that it could have. Millions and millions of lives, maybe even 16 to 20 million lives, are being saved by these drugs. But in some places, like Rwanda, where I’ve spent 10 years, you saw the virtual eradication of AIDS among children, because if mom is on therapy, the transmission to babies in utero, or through breastfeeding probably, really does not occur. And this is not a hypothetical development. This has already happened in Rwanda, which is a very poor country with a very robust public health and care delivery system.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to go to break, and when we come back, we’re going to talk about Fevers, Feuds, and Diamonds: Ebola and the Ravages of History. Our guest for the hour, Dr. Paul Farmer. Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: “Lying on the Truth” by Rance Allen. He just died in October.


democracynow--2020-12-04--Headlines for December  4, 2020

Headlines for December  4, 2020

The United States has set yet another world record for daily coronavirus cases , hospitalizations and fatalities , with over 216,000 infections confirmed Thursday and more than 2,800 deaths .
Nearly 101,000 people are hospitalized with COVID-19 across the U.S .
In California , Governor Gavin Newsom has imposed sweeping remain-at-home orders covering the vast majority of California ’ s population .
Gov .
Gavin Newsom : “ Just in the last 14 days , close to 1,000 Californians have lost their lives due to COVID-19 .
The bottom line is , if we don ’ t act now , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ If we don ’ t act now , we ’ ll continue to see a death rate climb.
” Governor Newsom ’ s order came a day after Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti warned his city is nearing a “ devastating tipping point , ” ordering residents to remain at home and skip social gatherings in order to prevent “ needless suffering and death.
” In Rhode Island , officials have opened two field hospitals with a combined 900 beds to relieve hospitals as COVID-19 cases hit new record highs .
Rhode Island @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is finding enough medical workers to handle the surge .
On Thursday , she appealed to retired and unemployed healthcare workers to join the effort .

The United States has set yet another world record for daily coronavirus cases, hospitalizations and fatalities, with over 216,000 infections confirmed Thursday and more than 2,800 deaths. Nearly 101,000 people are hospitalized with COVID-19 across the U.S. In California, Governor Gavin Newsom has imposed sweeping remain-at-home orders covering the vast majority of California’s population.
Gov. Gavin Newsom: “Just in the last 14 days, close to 1,000 Californians have lost their lives due to COVID-19. The bottom line is, if we don’t act now, our hospital system will be overwhelmed. If we don’t act now, we’ll continue to see a death rate climb.”
Governor Newsom’s order came a day after Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti warned his city is nearing a “devastating tipping point,” ordering residents to remain at home and skip social gatherings in order to prevent “needless suffering and death.”
In Rhode Island, officials have opened two field hospitals with a combined 900 beds to relieve hospitals as COVID-19 cases hit new record highs. Rhode Island Governor Gina Raimondo says the problem now is finding enough medical workers to handle the surge. On Thursday, she appealed to retired and unemployed healthcare workers to join the effort.


democracynow--2020-12-07--Civil Rights Lawyer Bryan Stevenson Wins "Alternative Nobel" for Work Against Mass Incarceration

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : We ’ re going end today ’ s show in nearby Alabama with civil rights attorney Bryan Stevenson , who founded the Equal Justice Initiative .
He was one of four human rights defenders who won this year ’ s Right Livelihood Award last Thursday .
This was his acceptance speech .
BRYAN STEVENSON : I work in a country that has the highest rate of incarceration in the world .
I work against a system that treats you better if you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you ’ re poor and innocent .
We work to overturn this horrific era of mass incarceration in America that has been brought about by the politics of fear and anger .
And in too many places across the world , we ’ re being governed by people who preach fear and anger .
And fear and anger are the essential ingredients of oppression and abuse .
And we need a community of people to stand up against this .
That ’ s what human rights work is about for me .
It @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have been so brutal , so toxic , so critically unfair .
There are thousands of innocent people in our jails and prisons , and we ’ re going to continue fighting for them .
I am the descendant of one of the 12 million Africans who were abducted , kidnapped , trafficked to this continent 400 years ago .
My great-grandparents were enslaved .
They had to deal with the bondage and horrors of slavery in this nation .
And yet they persevered .
They had a hope .
They had a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ freedom and equality .
I ’ m standing in front of jars .
And behind me , these jars represent the thousands of Black people who were lynched in America .
These were collected at sites across America for a century .
African Americans were brutalized , pulled out of their homes , beaten , bloodied , drowned , torched , lynched , in a nation where lawlessness reigned .
I am the child of people born into Jim Crow .
My parents were humiliated and denigrated by those signs that said “ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they weren ’ t directions ; they were assaults .
They created injuries .
And our nation has not confronted those injuries .
I began my education in a colored school .
But I wouldn ’ t be here today if lawyers hadn ’ t come into our community and made it possible for me to go to high school and college and law school .
And Mr. Hinton and I still live in a nation where there is a presumption of dangerousness and guilt that burdens Black and Brown people .
We @ @ @ @ @ @ @ summer trying to confront this legacy of racial inequality that continues to contaminate our nation .
We are not yet free .
We have not dealt with this horrific narrative .
My great-grandparents were enslaved .
They had to deal with brutality and bondage .
But the greatest victimization they suffered was this narrative that was created during slavery that Black people aren ’ t as good as white people , that Black people are less human , Black people are less evolved , Black people are less deserving , Black people are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ narrative that we are fighting against .
I am in Montgomery , Alabama .
It ’ s a community where , a generation ago , people put on their Sunday best to protest , to fight for equality and justice .
They knew they would get bloodied and battered and beaten , but they went anyway .
I stand on the shoulders of people who did so much more with so much less .
And because of them , I am determined that we must keep fighting .
Because of them , I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ when people say , “ Sit down.
” We must speak even when people say , “ Be quiet.
” Wherever human rights are being violated , wherever injustice can be found , wherever inequality can be seen , there have to be a community of people who fight .
And I am honored to be among that community and to receive this recognition today for that fight .
Thank you so very much for doing what you ’ ve done for me .
But more than that , for all of the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and injustice , thank you for recognizing the importance of our struggle .
AMY GOODMAN : Bryan Stevenson is winner of this year ’ s Right Livelihood Award , awarded last Thursday .
To see the full ceremony , you can go to democracynow.org — referred to often as the “ Alternative Nobel.
” This Thursday , on December 10th , International Human Rights Day , the Nobel Peace Prize will be given to the World Food Programme .
And , of course , we ’ ll be covering it .
A very @ @ @ @ @ @ @ does it for today ’ s broadcast .
Democracy Now !
is produced with Renée Feltz , Mike Burke , Deena Guzder , Libby Rainey , Nermeen Shaikh , María Taracena , Carla Wills , Tami Woronoff , Charina Nadura , Sam Alcoff , Tey-Marie Astudillo , John Hamilton , Robby Karran , Hany Massoud and Adriano Contreras .
Special thanks to Julie Crosby , Becca Staley .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going end today’s show in nearby Alabama with civil rights attorney Bryan Stevenson, who founded the Equal Justice Initiative. He was one of four human rights defenders who won this year’s Right Livelihood Award last Thursday. This was his acceptance speech.
BRYAN STEVENSON: I work in a country that has the highest rate of incarceration in the world. I work against a system that treats you better if you’re rich and guilty than if you’re poor and innocent. We work to overturn this horrific era of mass incarceration in America that has been brought about by the politics of fear and anger. And in too many places across the world, we’re being governed by people who preach fear and anger. And fear and anger are the essential ingredients of oppression and abuse.
And we need a community of people to stand up against this. That’s what human rights work is about for me. It’s about challenging these conditions that have been so brutal, so toxic, so critically unfair. There are thousands of innocent people in our jails and prisons, and we’re going to continue fighting for them.
I am the descendant of one of the 12 million Africans who were abducted, kidnapped, trafficked to this continent 400 years ago. My great-grandparents were enslaved. They had to deal with the bondage and horrors of slavery in this nation. And yet they persevered. They had a hope. They had a belief. They had a commitment to freedom and equality.
I’m standing in front of jars. And behind me, these jars represent the thousands of Black people who were lynched in America. These were collected at sites across America for a century. African Americans were brutalized, pulled out of their homes, beaten, bloodied, drowned, torched, lynched, in a nation where lawlessness reigned.
I am the child of people born into Jim Crow. My parents were humiliated and denigrated by those signs that said “white” and “colored.” And they weren’t directions; they were assaults. They created injuries. And our nation has not confronted those injuries. I began my education in a colored school. But I wouldn’t be here today if lawyers hadn’t come into our community and made it possible for me to go to high school and college and law school.
And Mr. Hinton and I still live in a nation where there is a presumption of dangerousness and guilt that burdens Black and Brown people. We’ve been in the streets this summer trying to confront this legacy of racial inequality that continues to contaminate our nation. We are not yet free. We have not dealt with this horrific narrative. My great-grandparents were enslaved. They had to deal with brutality and bondage. But the greatest victimization they suffered was this narrative that was created during slavery that Black people aren’t as good as white people, that Black people are less human, Black people are less evolved, Black people are less deserving, Black people are less capable. That narrative is the narrative that we are fighting against.
I am in Montgomery, Alabama. It’s a community where, a generation ago, people put on their Sunday best to protest, to fight for equality and justice. They knew they would get bloodied and battered and beaten, but they went anyway. I stand on the shoulders of people who did so much more with so much less. And because of them, I am determined that we must keep fighting. Because of them, I believe that we must stand up even when people say, “Sit down.” We must speak even when people say, “Be quiet.”
Wherever human rights are being violated, wherever injustice can be found, wherever inequality can be seen, there have to be a community of people who fight. And I am honored to be among that community and to receive this recognition today for that fight.
Thank you so very much for doing what you’ve done for me. But more than that, for all of the people around the world suffering from inequality and injustice, thank you for recognizing the importance of our struggle.
AMY GOODMAN: Bryan Stevenson is winner of this year’s Right Livelihood Award, awarded last Thursday. To see the full ceremony, you can go to democracynow.org — referred to often as the “Alternative Nobel.” This Thursday, on December 10th, International Human Rights Day, the Nobel Peace Prize will be given to the World Food Programme. And, of course, we’ll be covering it.
A very happy birthday to Igor Moreno! That does it for today’s broadcast. Democracy Now! is produced with Renée Feltz, Mike Burke, Deena Guzder, Libby Rainey, Nermeen Shaikh, María Taracena, Carla Wills, Tami Woronoff, Charina Nadura, Sam Alcoff, Tey-Marie Astudillo, John Hamilton, Robby Karran, Hany Massoud and Adriano Contreras. Special thanks to Julie Crosby, Becca Staley. I’m Amy Goodman.


democracynow--2020-12-07--Black Voters Matter: Group Sues Georgia for Purging 200,000 Voters Ahead of 2020 Election

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
That , “ Root and Crown ” by Young Jesus .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , as we continue to discuss what took place in Georgia this weekend , ahead of the January 5th runoff senatorial elections .
Sunday ’ s debates for Georgia ’ s Senate candidates fell on the eve of the registration deadline today for Georgians who want to vote in the special runoff election on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is today , Monday , December 7th .
This comes after Georgia Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger repeated his demand that President Trump stop promoting conspiracy theories about a stolen election , saying Trump ’ s rhetoric is fueling violent threats against election officials .
AMY GOODMAN : But that ’ s exactly what President Trump did this weekend in Georgia , continued to deny that Biden had won the elections , continued to attack the Republican leadership of Georgia , which in the past he had always supported .
He even @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Brian Kemp before he came to the rally , demanding that he have the Legislature choose Trump-allied electors for the Electoral College to overturn the will of the people .
Georgia voted , for the first time in years , narrowly , for the Democrat , for Joe Biden .
For more , we are joined by three guests , and we ’ re going to begin with Atlanta organizer Cliff Albright , co-founder and executive director of Black Voters Matter .
We thank you so much for being with us , Cliff @ @ @ @ @ @ @ your organization , along with a number of organizations , are suing the secretary of state of Georgia .
Explain why .
CLIFF ALBRIGHT : Yeah , thank you for having me , Amy .
Back in 2019 , and really in each year , Georgia has done a series of voter purges .
And in 2019 , what we discovered is that there were 200,000 who were purged , allegedly because they had moved , who had in fact not moved .
Their addresses had not changed .
The problem is that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ vendor .
They used a nonofficial source for the addresses to send out the notifications that they use to verify whether or not folks had moved .
Then they got — when they didn ’ t get a response , they used that as a rationale to purge people .
What we argued is that there was really only one vendor , there was only one official way to check those addresses , and if they had done so , then they would have seen that those folks had not moved , that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they were purged illegally .
In fact , when we sent out postcards to notify these voters that they had been purged and that they need to check their registration status , out of 100,000 that we sent out , we only got back a couple of hundred , which means that the vast majority of those addresses that we sent them to , using the official vendor , actually made it to the people that it was supposed to make it to .
So that ’ s the basis of our lawsuit @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , you know , this election has gone into a recount , two , three different recounts .
It should not have even been close .
And that ’ s one of the main things that we want folks to recognize about Georgia elections , is that without the suppression that ’ s been taking place , under previous Secretary of State Kemp , as well as the current secretary of state — we don ’ t want him to be viewed as a profile in courage .
He ’ s still been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s still intimidating voting rights organizations .
And so , without that form of intimidation , this would not have even been a close election .
AMY GOODMAN : Explain that further .
How is he intimidating voting rights organizations ?
CLIFF ALBRIGHT : Yeah , just as an example , I mean , just in this past week , even as he and his staff have been saying things like , you know , “ Somebody ’ s going to get hurt , ” they ’ ve also announced that they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ voter registration , including our dear friends at the New Georgia Project , which has been a constant target of the Secretary of State ’ s Office .
So , you know , what we have to recognize is , it ’ s nice for you to say , “ Hey , Mr. President , somebody ’ s going to get hurt .
There ’ s going to be violence , ” but the fact of the matter is , when you lead this kind of propaganda that there ’ s voter fraud @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it ’ s coming out of Raffensperger ’ s mouth or whether it ’ s coming out of Loeffler ’ s mouth on the debate stage , when you push that narrative that you ’ ve got these organizations out there that are doing these nefarious activities , that are using — that are bringing people into the state and having people vote illegally , when you do that kind of soft narrative or soft incites of violence , it has the same impact of what Trump is saying .
And that ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for far too long , and Secretary Raffensperger has his hands dirty with it .
AMY GOODMAN : I wanted to go to Saturday ’ s rally that Trump held in Georgia , much of his speech focusing on the November presidential election results .
He repeated his baseless claims of widespread voter fraud in the election and called for sweeping barriers to voting access in the future .
AMY GOODMAN : Can you respond to this , Cliff Albright ?
And talk about the effect this is having in Georgia .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Of course , regular voters , for example , who voted in November , they are registered , so they don ’ t have to register .
But what do people have to do ?
And when can they start voting for the January 5th senatorial runoffs ?
CLIFF ALBRIGHT : Yeah , so there ’ s a couple of ways for me to respond to Trump ’ s comments .
I mean , on the one hand , you know , the simplest answer is , obviously , he ’ s making @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
This is disinformation .
This is , you know , hatemongering .
This is all the things that we know it is , right ?
The other way that I answer that question , though , honestly , Amy , is that I say , “ You know what ?
If he wants to come to Georgia , come on .
If he wants to do his little hate rallies , go on and do them.
” Because what he ’ s doing , in part , is , for all those @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we beat him — right ?
— and we turned and we flipped Georgia , but that may have been thinking , “ OK , I did my job in November .
You know , I don ’ t really have to get as involved in this runoff election ” — if there are folks that were out there thinking about that , Black voters , in particular , guess what : He is reminding us of just how important this runoff election is .
Keep in mind that he — between he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to Georgia at least three or four times leading up to the general election , and that didn ’ t work out too well for them .
So , if he wants to come and do his little KKK rallies , that ’ s fine with me .
The other answer , though , to this is , in terms of the voter registration deadline , is that , yes , today is the deadline .
We ’ re encouraging everybody to register .
We ’ re encouraging folks who are already registered @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , because everybody ’ s got a role to play in being an organizer and reaching out to folks to get them registered .
You know , there ’ s 23,000 , I think it is , 18-year-olds — I mean , people turning 18 between November 3rd and January 5th .
We ’ ve been doing outreach targeted to them , you know , formerly incarcerated folks that have the right to vote .
Anybody who is not yet registered , today is the deadline .
We ’ re encouraging everybody to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ everybody to check their registration status .
That ’ s the other piece of this .
We want people to be newly registered , but even if you ’ re already registered , check your registration status , so that we can make sure that there ’ s no funny business going on and that you ’ re registered , that you know what your accurate and correct polling place is .
And we ’ re doing all these things across the state .
We ’ ve got partners , community-based partners , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Georgia — Middle Georgia , Metro Atlanta , the midsize cities , Southwest Georgia , all across the state — where , on a daily basis , we ’ ve got partners going out reminding people about the voter registration deadlines and that not only can they be voting by mail right now , but that starting next Monday , December 14th , early vote starts in Georgia .
AMY GOODMAN : Professor Carol Anderson , your most recent book , One Person , No Vote : How Voter Suppression Is Destroying Our @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s happened since you ’ ve written that book ?
Do you hold out more hope ?
And can you talk about the effect of the president of the United States continually alleging voter fraud , continually saying , as he did in Valdosta on Saturday night , again saying that he actually won the election ?
CAROL ANDERSON : Yes , this is — I think of Trump as the — he ’ s not an aberration ; he ’ s the culmination .
He is the culmination of decades of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ creating the theater of voter fraud as a means to justify massive voter suppression , as a means to justify voter ID , where the states ’ legislatures are identifying IDs that African Americans don ’ t have and making those those the access point to the ballot box , in terms of shutting down polling stations , in terms of creating the image , the imagery , again — you heard him talking about all of these noncitizens voting .
“ Do you speak English ?
” Well , the Voting Rights @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with communities that have sizable non-English-speaking American citizens and that states are to be responsive to that population by printing the ballots in that language , as well as having poll workers and election folks there who can help in that language .
And so , what you hear in this kind of — CAROL ANDERSON : — xenophobic thing is to undermine American democracy .
That ’ s what this is .
AMY GOODMAN : Carol Anderson , I want to thank you so much for being with us , professor at @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , No Vote ; Cliff Albright , co-founder of Black Voters Matter ; and I want to thank Democratic state Representative Bee Nguyen of Georgia .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. That, “Root and Crown” by Young Jesus. I’m Amy Goodman, as we continue to discuss what took place in Georgia this weekend, ahead of the January 5th runoff senatorial elections. Sunday’s debates for Georgia’s Senate candidates fell on the eve of the registration deadline today for Georgians who want to vote in the special runoff election on January 5th. Yes, that deadline is today, Monday, December 7th.
This comes after Georgia Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger repeated his demand that President Trump stop promoting conspiracy theories about a stolen election, saying Trump’s rhetoric is fueling violent threats against election officials.
SECRETARY OF STATE BRAD RAFFENSPERGER: This is exactly the kind of language that is at the base of a growing threat environment for election workers who are simply doing their jobs.
AMY GOODMAN: But that’s exactly what President Trump did this weekend in Georgia, continued to deny that Biden had won the elections, continued to attack the Republican leadership of Georgia, which in the past he had always supported. He even made a call to the Republican Governor Brian Kemp before he came to the rally, demanding that he have the Legislature choose Trump-allied electors for the Electoral College to overturn the will of the people. Georgia voted, for the first time in years, narrowly, for the Democrat, for Joe Biden.
For more, we are joined by three guests, and we’re going to begin with Atlanta organizer Cliff Albright, co-founder and executive director of Black Voters Matter.
We thank you so much for being with us, Cliff. Interestingly, you are suing — your organization, along with a number of organizations, are suing the secretary of state of Georgia. Explain why.
CLIFF ALBRIGHT: Yeah, thank you for having me, Amy.
Back in 2019, and really in each year, Georgia has done a series of voter purges. And in 2019, what we discovered is that there were 200,000 who were purged, allegedly because they had moved, who had in fact not moved. Their addresses had not changed.
The problem is that the secretary of state used an illegal vendor. They used a nonofficial source for the addresses to send out the notifications that they use to verify whether or not folks had moved. Then they got — when they didn’t get a response, they used that as a rationale to purge people.
What we argued is that there was really only one vendor, there was only one official way to check those addresses, and if they had done so, then they would have seen that those folks had not moved, that 200,000 had not moved, and so they were purged illegally. In fact, when we sent out postcards to notify these voters that they had been purged and that they need to check their registration status, out of 100,000 that we sent out, we only got back a couple of hundred, which means that the vast majority of those addresses that we sent them to, using the official vendor, actually made it to the people that it was supposed to make it to. So that’s the basis of our lawsuit.
At the end of the day, you know, this election has gone into a recount, two, three different recounts. It should not have even been close. And that’s one of the main things that we want folks to recognize about Georgia elections, is that without the suppression that’s been taking place, under previous Secretary of State Kemp, as well as the current secretary of state — we don’t want him to be viewed as a profile in courage. He’s still been a large-scale voter suppression advocate. He’s still intimidating voting rights organizations. And so, without that form of intimidation, this would not have even been a close election.
AMY GOODMAN: Explain that further. How is he intimidating voting rights organizations?
CLIFF ALBRIGHT: Yeah, just as an example, I mean, just in this past week, even as he and his staff have been saying things like, you know, “Somebody’s going to get hurt,” they’ve also announced that they’re investigating four organizations that do voter registration, including our dear friends at the New Georgia Project, which has been a constant target of the Secretary of State’s Office. So, you know, what we have to recognize is, it’s nice for you to say, “Hey, Mr. President, somebody’s going to get hurt. There’s going to be violence,” but the fact of the matter is, when you lead this kind of propaganda that there’s voter fraud taking place — right? — whether it’s coming out of Raffensperger’s mouth or whether it’s coming out of Loeffler’s mouth on the debate stage, when you push that narrative that you’ve got these organizations out there that are doing these nefarious activities, that are using — that are bringing people into the state and having people vote illegally, when you do that kind of soft narrative or soft incites of violence, it has the same impact of what Trump is saying. And that’s been going on in the state for far too long, and Secretary Raffensperger has his hands dirty with it.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go to Saturday’s rally that Trump held in Georgia, much of his speech focusing on the November presidential election results. He repeated his baseless claims of widespread voter fraud in the election and called for sweeping barriers to voting access in the future.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We need to pass landmark election reform, including voter ID. Is that so bad? Residency verification, like we live in the country, we live in the state. Citizenship confirmation. They want to say, “Oh, he doesn’t have to be a citizen.” You’ve got to see what’s voting. These, they’re not citizens. “Are you a citizen?” “No, I’m not citizen.” “Do you speak English?” “No, no. No English. Speak no English.”
AMY GOODMAN: Can you respond to this, Cliff Albright? And talk about the effect this is having in Georgia. And who has to register by today? Of course, regular voters, for example, who voted in November, they are registered, so they don’t have to register. But what do people have to do? And when can they start voting for the January 5th senatorial runoffs?
CLIFF ALBRIGHT: Yeah, so there’s a couple of ways for me to respond to Trump’s comments. I mean, on the one hand, you know, the simplest answer is, obviously, he’s making things up. These are all untrue. This is disinformation. This is, you know, hatemongering. This is all the things that we know it is, right?
The other way that I answer that question, though, honestly, Amy, is that I say, “You know what? If he wants to come to Georgia, come on. If he wants to do his little hate rallies, go on and do them.” Because what he’s doing, in part, is, for all those voters who were celebrating the fact that we beat him — right? — and we turned and we flipped Georgia, but that may have been thinking, “OK, I did my job in November. You know, I don’t really have to get as involved in this runoff election” — if there are folks that were out there thinking about that, Black voters, in particular, guess what: He is reminding us of just how important this runoff election is. Keep in mind that he — between he and Pence, I think they came to Georgia at least three or four times leading up to the general election, and that didn’t work out too well for them. So, if he wants to come and do his little KKK rallies, that’s fine with me.
The other answer, though, to this is, in terms of the voter registration deadline, is that, yes, today is the deadline. We’re encouraging everybody to register. We’re encouraging folks who are already registered to get 10 other people to register, because everybody’s got a role to play in being an organizer and reaching out to folks to get them registered. You know, there’s 23,000, I think it is, 18-year-olds — I mean, people turning 18 between November 3rd and January 5th. We’ve been doing outreach targeted to them, you know, formerly incarcerated folks that have the right to vote. Anybody who is not yet registered, today is the deadline. We’re encouraging everybody to go.
And we’re encouraging everybody to check their registration status. That’s the other piece of this. We want people to be newly registered, but even if you’re already registered, check your registration status, so that we can make sure that there’s no funny business going on and that you’re registered, that you know what your accurate and correct polling place is.
And we’re doing all these things across the state. We’ve got partners, community-based partners, in 50 counties throughout the state of Georgia — Middle Georgia, Metro Atlanta, the midsize cities, Southwest Georgia, all across the state — where, on a daily basis, we’ve got partners going out reminding people about the voter registration deadlines and that not only can they be voting by mail right now, but that starting next Monday, December 14th, early vote starts in Georgia.
AMY GOODMAN: Professor Carol Anderson, your most recent book, One Person, No Vote: How Voter Suppression Is Destroying Our Democracy. Can you talk about what’s happened since you’ve written that book? Do you hold out more hope? And can you talk about the effect of the president of the United States continually alleging voter fraud, continually saying, as he did in Valdosta on Saturday night, again saying that he actually won the election?
CAROL ANDERSON: Yes, this is — I think of Trump as the — he’s not an aberration; he’s the culmination. He is the culmination of decades of the Republicans hollering voting fraud, of creating the theater of voter fraud as a means to justify massive voter suppression, as a means to justify voter ID, where the states’ legislatures are identifying IDs that African Americans don’t have and making those those the access point to the ballot box, in terms of shutting down polling stations, in terms of creating the image, the imagery, again — you heard him talking about all of these noncitizens voting. “Do you speak English?” Well, the Voting Rights Act has language in there that deals with communities that have sizable non-English-speaking American citizens and that states are to be responsive to that population by printing the ballots in that language, as well as having poll workers and election folks there who can help in that language. And so, what you hear in this kind of —
AMY GOODMAN: We have 10 seconds.
CAROL ANDERSON: — xenophobic thing is to undermine American democracy. That’s what this is.
AMY GOODMAN: Carol Anderson, I want to thank you so much for being with us, professor at Emory University, author of One Person, No Vote; Cliff Albright, co-founder of Black Voters Matter; and I want to thank Democratic state Representative Bee Nguyen of Georgia.