democracynow--2020-09-24--An Indictment of the System: Protests Erupt as Cops Cleared for Killing Breonna Taylor in Her Home

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : A grand jury has failed to charge any of the three white Louisville police officers involved in the killing of Breonna Taylor with her death , more than six months after they stormed the 26-year-old Black woman ’ s home in a no-knock raid and fired a hail of bullets in the middle of the night , leaving her dead .
The grand jury ’ s only indictments were three counts of wanton endangerment against former Louisville police detective Brett Hankison for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ during the raid that ended Taylor ’ s life on March 13th .
The two officers who shot her six times were not charged , after the grand jury deemed their actions justified .
In all , the three officers fired 32 shots in the raid .
This is Kentucky ’ s Republican Attorney General Daniel Cameron announcing the decision at a news conference on Wednesday .
AMY GOODMAN : Breonna Taylor ’ s family responded to the grand jury ’ s decision through their attorney , Benjamin Crump , who called it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to Breonna Taylor ’ s memory .
It ’ s yet another example of no accountability for the genocide of persons of color by white police officers .
With all we know about Breonna Taylor ’ s killing , how could a fair and just system result in today ’ s decision ?
” Crump asked .
Soon after the decision came down , protesters flooded the streets in cities nationwide .
In Louisville , at least two police officers were shot before a 9 p.m. curfew .
Police say the shooting suspect @ @ @ @ @ @ @ agents and projectiles at protesters throughout the night , arresting at least 46 people .
This is one of the protesters in Louisville .
AMY GOODMAN : News of the grand jury ’ s decision comes after months of relentless protests demanding justice for Breonna Taylor amidst an uprising for racial justice .
But Wednesday Trump praised how her case was handled .
AMY GOODMAN : All of this comes as an FBI investigation into the no-knock warrant the officers used to enter Breonna Taylor ’ s home in March is ongoing .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ Louisville , Kentucky , where we ’ re joined by Sadiqa Reynolds , president and CEO of Louisville ’ s Urban League .
Welcome back to Democracy Now !
, Sadiqa .
You ’ re an attorney .
You ’ re an activist .
You ’ ve been in the streets .
Can you respond to the grand jury decision ?
SADIQA REYNOLDS : I think the lack of indictments in the grand jury process is an indictment on the system itself .
Some of what we heard the attorney general talk about @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the things he talked about being inconclusive , one example is , we ’ ve all heard and read the death certificate that said five — she had been shot five times .
He indicated yesterday in his talk that that was six times .
These are things that should have gone to a jury .
They have created a completely separate grand jury system for police officers .
And really , if you compare it to the process that Kenny Walker went through — you all will remember that Kenny Walker @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he was in the home at the time that police arrived .
And he ended up firing at the officers and hitting one of them .
And his grand jury process — I mean , he was there , same fact pattern .
Everything that they would have had to present as it relates to police , they should have had to present as it related to Kenny .
Kenny ’ s grand jury process took less than three minutes , and for these officers , two days of presenting .
And there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ saying now that the grand jury has said that the officers ’ behavior was justifiable , but we don ’ t know if that ’ s what the grand jury said or if that ’ s what the attorney general decided and therefore did not even present to the grand jury .
We don ’ t know what he presented to the grand jury .
And I think that ’ s really important for us to talk about .
I think the other part of it is , anybody practicing law knows there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ indictment .
There ’ s nothing easier than getting an indictment .
And so , the fact that they could not and did not get indictments , in my view , is an indictment on this entire system .
And it is the reason that people are protesting and raising their voices , because of this inequity in our justice system .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Well , Sadiqa , the attorney general said that the state ’ s investigation about the use of force by these police officers — that the use of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ fired upon first by Breonna Taylor ’ s husband , Kenneth Walker — not husband , her partner .
Your response to that , what the attorney general said ?
SADIQA REYNOLDS : The police , the officers , had the right to fire on the person who fired on them .
That self-defense does not apply to Breonna .
Breonna had no weapon .
Breonna did not fire .
So , again , we are changing the law in order to take care of police officers .
That is just not how @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so many things that are questions of fact here for a jury to decide .
When the attorney general was addressing whether or not Hankison fired any weapon that landed in Breonna ’ s body , he answered there was no conclusive evidence .
Well , was there any evidence at all ?
Because if in fact there was , that ’ s something that would be a question for a jury , and not answered in a grand jury .
When you heard him say there was one witness who indicated that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , because you ’ ll remember this is a no-knock warrant and then it was changed to a knock-and-announce , and so the police officers are saying , “ We did knock and announce.
” Well , 12 people were interviewed , and 12 people — 11 of them said , “ We did not hear police announce.
” What you heard the attorney general say is there was one person who did hear them say , “ This is police.
” That person was upstairs and outside .
Well , did you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 11 other people who did not hear police announce ?
Did you tell the grand jury two people called 911 and said , “ We need the police here ” ?
Did you allow the grand jury to listen to Kenneth ’ s tape of him calling 911 , where he ’ s saying , “ Someone has come in , and they shot Breonna ” ?
What did — AMY GOODMAN : Wait .
Actually , Sadiqa , we want to play that 911 clip .
AMY GOODMAN : This is when @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for help .
AMY GOODMAN : So , that ’ s Kenny Walker crying .
He calls the police because he doesn ’ t realize it ’ s the police who shot his girlfriend dead with these six bullets .
Now , this is a critically important point .
They were not in uniform , and he clearly did not know who these men were .
SADIQA REYNOLDS : That is exactly right .
And so , then you have an attorney general who stands up yesterday and tells us that he should @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he did know , because there ’ s someone else .
I know there are 12 people who didn ’ t hear police , and there are two people that called 911 , and there ’ s Kenny who called 911 to get police on the scene .
But somehow you should believe that everybody knew it was police , and so , I mean , this is not a question for a jury .
It is unbelievable .
It is an unbelievable assault on our intelligence .
It is offensive .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is .
This system is designed to protect the privileged .
And police have the greatest privilege .
And that is why we are in the streets .
People are so frustrated with not being heard , not being seen , not being protected or valued .
There are so many problems with this case .
And anyone knows — I mean , on average , really , a grand jury could indict 12 people in an hour .
I mean , they just keep spitting them out .
It ’ s not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , they give you a little bit of information , and you move on .
You vote , and you move on .
And if you get a tape of a grand jury , you would see that .
In any criminal case — excuse me — you would get a copy of the grand jury indictment .
And usually they ’ re not five minutes long .
So , this process of presenting all of this information and contradictory information , that doesn ’ t happen for regular citizens .
That is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ process works .
And those of us who know the system understand that .
You know , and there ’ s another thing that is important here .
The attorney general was not prepared yesterday to tell us whether or not the warrant was even a good warrant .
I mean , do you understand that ?
This woman was killed in March , and we are now in September , and we still don ’ t know if the warrant that they were relying on was even a good warrant ?
He @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a white woman — if a 26-year-old white woman was killed in this country , and six months later you could not answer the question about whether or not police went in with a good warrant , this country would burn itself down .
But somehow we are supposed to act with all of this restraint and be ready to move on and heal .
It is frustrating .
The system is completely broken and needs to be reformed , because there ’ s too much subjectivity .
AMY GOODMAN : I want @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this new information yesterday , Sadiqa Reynolds , that the attorney general shared , saying that Breonna was shot not five times , but six .
When he was questioned about this , to the shock of everyone , he said , “ Well , there was something in her foot.
” Talk about the significance of what it means to be in her foot .
SADIQA REYNOLDS : Listen , it has been my understanding that Breonna died in the fetal position on the floor .
And if you think of police @ @ @ @ @ @ @ one shot , and he stopped firing .
And they continued to fire .
They continued to fire repeatedly into that apartment .
And apparently , according to the attorney general , a bullet was lodged in her foot .
First of all , even the fact that he is contradicting the death certificate is a question of fact .
Was it a bullet ?
What was lodged there ?
Who fired it ?
We need to understand more .
This case deserved a jury .
I mean , and I prayed .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ could think of was , I pray to God that he has told her mother , before he told the world , that her baby was shot in the foot .
I hope he had a very long conversation with the mother .
I have since learned that there was not enough conversation .
He did not explain everything .
This is a — AMY GOODMAN : And just to be clear , it means she was lying down already .
SADIQA REYNOLDS : Oh , no doubt about it .
No doubt @ @ @ @ @ @ @ already .
And you heard him talk about there was one bullet that would have killed her .
But I don ’ t know if it was — was it the first bullet ?
So , did she suffer through the first three or four or five , and then it was the sixth one that killed her ?
Which one ?
Which bullet killed her ?
How long was she alive ?
How long did she suffer ?
She seemed to be alive when Kenny was on that telephone .
And again @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , well , she — you know , that one fatal bullet would have killed her within seconds or a couple of minutes .
Well , but there are so many questions here that go unanswered because of this attorney general ’ s process .
How this has been handled is an incredible miscarriage of justice for this city .
We deserve better .
Breonna Taylor deserved better .
Her mother deserved better than this .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Well , Sadiqa , you ’ ve said that nobody would have even known @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Walker if it weren ’ t for the protesters .
Could you talk about the significance of the protests that have broken out , not just in Louisville , but all across the country ?
And also , what happened last night ?
Over a hundred protesters were reportedly arrested in Louisville ?
SADIQA REYNOLDS : So , let ’ s start with the fact that in March , when Breonna was first killed by police , we were at the top of the pandemic , and people were just trying to figure @ @ @ @ @ @ @ their offices were going to work , and we heard that Breonna Taylor had been killed .
The officers did not have on body cameras .
Basically , it was described to us as a drug raid .
And when they went in , the suspect fired , hitting an officer , and then , you know , the female suspect was basically killed in the crossfire .
And so , that is not exactly what happened , right ?
And so people began to ask questions .
People began to ask questions @ @ @ @ @ @ @ re doing it in a pandemic with so many other things happening .
And this case is sort of pushed to the back of our minds — some of us .
But , of course , you have her mother still fighting for answers , because she knows who her child is .
And you have us calling to say , “ Explain again why there are no body cameras .
It doesn ’ t make sense .
These officers could not have been undercover .
You know , they obviously were going @ @ @ @ @ @ @ would have been blown .
Why were there no body cameras ?
” And so you have this repeated questioning , but no traction , no changes , the police department just saying they did everything right .
And then , Kenny Walker , of course , is in custody .
So , in March , he ’ s arrested .
He ’ s locked up in jail .
And March , April , May , you begin — more and more people are calling her name and saying her name , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
And when that happens , that ’ s when we see Kenny released from custody , with charges dismissed .
And I have to commend one of the judges here .
I have to tell you , Judge Stevens released Kenny on home incarceration .
That was a sign and a half that this case was a terrible case .
When a Black man shoots a white police officer , and a Black judge says , “ I ’ m not going to make him stay in jail because there ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a sign that this is a problematic case .
And so , you fast-forward .
Kenny is ultimately released completely , even from home incarceration .
His charges are dismissed .
And then people are more and more saying her name across the country , across the globe , and you get movement , you get motion .
And these protesters — and I have certainly been one of them — for 118 days , people have protested in this city , raising their voices for justice , for change — to begin @ @ @ @ @ @ @ really going beyond that and saying , “ There are injustices in every system in this city , and we want to see things change.
” And those powerful protests have been successful .
And it was important for us to say to everyone who had been willing to sacrifice their freedom , their bodies , their time , to raise their voices here in Louisville — because it has been dangerous for us .
I mean , the first night of protest , we were met with tear gas and pepper bullets @ @ @ @ @ @ @ then it did get — you know , things got out of hand very quickly .
David McAtee , I think you all remember — excuse me — David McAtee was killed because police were at 26th and Broadway .
And if you could just understand Louisville , most of the protests have been happening in downtown Louisville , some to the east of downtown .
The West End of this city is much like other urban areas : uninvested , no — nothing there .
So , these folks are not at @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , but instead they ’ re all the way down , 21 blocks away from any protest , at 26th and Broadway .
And they are just living .
They ’ re doing what they do all the time .
Police take the National Guard down there .
They begin shooting pepper bullets at people .
David McAtee , who is a beloved community member , and even beloved by police — he catered their trainings — he shoots a gun into the air .
We aren ’ t sure that he even @ @ @ @ @ @ @ outside .
He seems to be trying to disperse the crowd .
Police return fire .
He is killed .
But it started with them shooting people who were out — they ’ re literally shooting at people ’ s heads for protest violations — I mean , I ’ m so sorry , for curfew violations .
For curfew violations .
So , you move forward from there , and I think it ’ s important for us to say what was accomplished in these protests .
It was more than just @ @ @ @ @ @ @ indict these officers .
We can ’ t just say that ’ s the only way we can measure the success of the protesters , but instead we have to talk about the fact that the police chief was exited ; that there was one officer that was indicted ; that now we have mandatory body cameras here in Louisville , Kentucky , when there ’ s a search warrant issued ; that we ’ ve banned no-knocks in this city , so no more no-knock warrants ; the creation of a civilian @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Office of Inspector General to oversee the police department .
This is a review board that I am currently on and helping to create .
Those kinds of things have happened — a top-to-bottom review of our police department .
Now , in writing , we have this duty to intervene ; our police officers have a responsibility to intervene if they see an officer engaged in misconduct .
You and I probably would have thought that that was something that was just understood .
Well , now it ’ s in writing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on that .
We ’ re getting an independent investigation of our police department .
There are so many things .
And I go back to , again , if this case had not made the national news , please believe me , Kenneth Walker would have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law .
It is because of the protests in the street that this case changed .
We changed everything .
AMY GOODMAN : And I want to again reiterate , he was arrested and jailed as he is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is gunned down in front of him .
But I want to go back to the Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron , who , of course , announced the grand jury decision and talked about who he doesn ’ t want weighing in .
AMY GOODMAN : And then , this is the Republican Attorney General Daniel Cameron just weeks ago , who spoke at the Republican National Convention and referenced the killing of Breonna Taylor .
AMY GOODMAN : And yesterday at the news conference , President Trump praised Cameron as a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Your response , Sadiqa Reynolds ?
SADIQA REYNOLDS : He certainly is a rising star in the Republican Party .
And I can see very clearly how he is going to be used against us in every imaginable way .
I think we are in a very , very dangerous territory in this country .
And there are people right now who are so focused on greed and their money and what they can achieve for themselves , and they are missing the bigger picture .
This democracy is under attack .
It @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Americans , it is under attack for all of us .
Life as we know it is changing every day , little by little .
Our democracy is being killed .
It ’ s the death of a thousand cuts .
And we all had better start paying attention .
Daniel Cameron ’ s rhetoric sounds good .
He is an articulate Black man .
And I really , generally — I hate when people say that : “ Oh , you ’ re so articulate.
” But let me tell you , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ his investigation yesterday and the grand jury , the danger that is posed to us is real .
And we had better be ready to respond , because this country will change and is changing .
And it is not for the better .
And that is not a political statement .
That is not about partisanship from me .
I don ’ t care if you are a Democrat or a Republican ; I run a nonpartisan organization .
But what I care about is justice .
What I care about is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you look a man in the eye and you expect for them to do their job , and they come back and that is not what happened , you need to hold them accountable .
We are in danger in this state and in this country .
It is not a joke .
It is really almost unreal .
And people of every race , nationality , gender , religion had better be paying attention and get out of your head about what is best for you , and think about this country @ @ @ @ @ @ @ different here .
AMY GOODMAN : Very quickly , Sadiqa , on the issue of the fired detective , Hankison , who fired wildly into the bedroom window , into the glass door , ultimately not charged for anything involving the death of Breonna Taylor , but for the bullets going into the neighbor ’ s apartment , he is a person who we ’ ve learned more about because as his picture got out there , one woman after another came forward and said , “ That man sexually assaulted me , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ cop , he would drive me home after I left a bar , ” and others said that , too .
Can you talk about the fact that he might not even face any jail time , or up to 15 ?
He faces three charges of wanton endangerment .
SADIQA REYNOLDS : You can count on him not facing any charges — any time at all .
In fact , it ’ s my understanding that he was arrested in Shelby County .
He turned himself in .
He posted his $ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
So , this is , gain , another slap in the face .
We can plan on him absolutely not spending any time in jail for the death of Breonna Taylor , for wanton endangerment , for anything related to the shooting , the killing that happened at that apartment complex that night .
He may end up spending time in jail for the assault on these women , who I think have tried to defer .
I think they have really made an attempt to honor this Black woman ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And I expect that they will step forward even more now as time goes on .
Also , it is my understanding that those things are being investigated .
But all it ’ s going to show us is , you can murder a Black woman in America and serve no time , but the sexual assault of a white woman , we ’ ll come down on you for that .
Or maybe — AMY GOODMAN : And the bullets into the neighbor ’ s apartment , that was a white family @ @ @ @ @ @ @ t know who the families were .
I don ’ t know what color , what race the people were .
I have no idea .
I haven ’ t — to me , the issue is not in that case what their race was .
I ’ m simply saying if — let me say this .
Let me calm down and say this clearly .
If we were talking about a 26-year-old white woman in September , the results of this case would have been different .
That ’ s what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that ’ s why they ’ re in the street .
And that is also why our allies are in the street with us .
And I think it is important for us to say here , in Louisville , Kentucky , the demonstrations , the rallies , the protests , they have been integrated .
So , while we certainly have challenges around race , we also have alignment , too , for justice .
And it has been a really interesting thing to watch .
And I pray that we continue @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
I said yesterday , and I sincerely mean it , I think we are in a fight for the soul of our country .
We are at 49-51 , and the good guys are losing .
But it is a close fight .
We ’ ve got to keep fighting .
AMY GOODMAN : Sadiqa Reynolds , thanks so much for joining us , president and CEO of the Louisville Urban League , an attorney in Kentucky .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Nermeen Shaikh .
When we come back @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the investigation of the police shooting of Jacob Blake is underway .
We ’ ll speak to Jake Blake ’ s father , Jacob Blake Sr. Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: A grand jury has failed to charge any of the three white Louisville police officers involved in the killing of Breonna Taylor with her death, more than six months after they stormed the 26-year-old Black woman’s home in a no-knock raid and fired a hail of bullets in the middle of the night, leaving her dead. The grand jury’s only indictments were three counts of wanton endangerment against former Louisville police detective Brett Hankison for shooting into the apartment of a neighbor during the raid that ended Taylor’s life on March 13th. The two officers who shot her six times were not charged, after the grand jury deemed their actions justified. In all, the three officers fired 32 shots in the raid.
This is Kentucky’s Republican Attorney General Daniel Cameron announcing the decision at a news conference on Wednesday.
ATTORNEY GENERAL DANIEL CAMERON: After hearing the evidence from our team of prosecutors, the grand jury voted to return an indictment against detective Hankison for three counts of wanton endangerment for wantonly placing the three individuals in apartment three in danger of serious physical injury or death. The charge of wanton endangerment in the first degree is a Class D felony. And if found guilty, the accused can serve up to five years for each count.
AMY GOODMAN: Breonna Taylor’s family responded to the grand jury’s decision through their attorney, Benjamin Crump, who called it, quote, “outrageous and offensive to Breonna Taylor’s memory. It’s yet another example of no accountability for the genocide of persons of color by white police officers. With all we know about Breonna Taylor’s killing, how could a fair and just system result in today’s decision?” Crump asked.
Soon after the decision came down, protesters flooded the streets in cities nationwide. In Louisville, at least two police officers were shot before a 9 p.m. curfew. Police say the shooting suspect is in custody. Police fired chemical agents and projectiles at protesters throughout the night, arresting at least 46 people. This is one of the protesters in Louisville.
PROTESTER: It feels like today — and I think it’s a fact — that Black lives do not matter to our elected officials in Louisville, in Kentucky and apparently in this country. This has been an incredibly traumatic, difficult time for the community.
AMY GOODMAN: News of the grand jury’s decision comes after months of relentless protests demanding justice for Breonna Taylor amidst an uprising for racial justice. But Wednesday Trump praised how her case was handled.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Well, I thought it was really brilliant. Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron is doing a fantastic job. I think he’s a star. … He is handling it very well. You know who he is, right?
AMY GOODMAN: All of this comes as an FBI investigation into the no-knock warrant the officers used to enter Breonna Taylor’s home in March is ongoing.
For more, we go directly to Louisville, Kentucky, where we’re joined by Sadiqa Reynolds, president and CEO of Louisville’s Urban League.
Welcome back to Democracy Now!, Sadiqa. You’re an attorney. You’re an activist. You’ve been in the streets. Can you respond to the grand jury decision?
SADIQA REYNOLDS: I think the lack of indictments in the grand jury process is an indictment on the system itself. Some of what we heard the attorney general talk about, presenting to the grand jury some of the things he talked about being inconclusive, one example is, we’ve all heard and read the death certificate that said five — she had been shot five times. He indicated yesterday in his talk that that was six times. These are things that should have gone to a jury.
They have created a completely separate grand jury system for police officers. And really, if you compare it to the process that Kenny Walker went through — you all will remember that Kenny Walker was the boyfriend of Breonna, and he was in the home at the time that police arrived. And he ended up firing at the officers and hitting one of them. And his grand jury process — I mean, he was there, same fact pattern. Everything that they would have had to present as it relates to police, they should have had to present as it related to Kenny. Kenny’s grand jury process took less than three minutes, and for these officers, two days of presenting.
And there’s something else. We are saying now that the grand jury has said that the officers’ behavior was justifiable, but we don’t know if that’s what the grand jury said or if that’s what the attorney general decided and therefore did not even present to the grand jury. We don’t know what he presented to the grand jury. And I think that’s really important for us to talk about.
I think the other part of it is, anybody practicing law knows there’s nothing easier than getting an indictment. There’s nothing easier than getting an indictment. And so, the fact that they could not and did not get indictments, in my view, is an indictment on this entire system. And it is the reason that people are protesting and raising their voices, because of this inequity in our justice system.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Sadiqa, the attorney general said that the state’s investigation about the use of force by these police officers — that the use of force was justified because they had been fired upon first by Breonna Taylor’s husband, Kenneth Walker — not husband, her partner. Your response to that, what the attorney general said?
SADIQA REYNOLDS: The police, the officers, had the right to fire on the person who fired on them. That self-defense does not apply to Breonna. Breonna had no weapon. Breonna did not fire. So, again, we are changing the law in order to take care of police officers. That is just not how that should be applied.
There are so many things that are questions of fact here for a jury to decide. When the attorney general was addressing whether or not Hankison fired any weapon that landed in Breonna’s body, he answered there was no conclusive evidence. Well, was there any evidence at all? Because if in fact there was, that’s something that would be a question for a jury, and not answered in a grand jury.
When you heard him say there was one witness who indicated that they did hear the police announce themselves, because you’ll remember this is a no-knock warrant and then it was changed to a knock-and-announce, and so the police officers are saying, “We did knock and announce.” Well, 12 people were interviewed, and 12 people — 11 of them said, “We did not hear police announce.” What you heard the attorney general say is there was one person who did hear them say, “This is police.” That person was upstairs and outside. Well, did you tell the grand jury that there were 11 other people who did not hear police announce? Did you tell the grand jury two people called 911 and said, “We need the police here”? Did you allow the grand jury to listen to Kenneth’s tape of him calling 911, where he’s saying, “Someone has come in, and they shot Breonna”? What did —
AMY GOODMAN: Wait. Actually, Sadiqa, we want to play that 911 clip.
SADIQA REYNOLDS: OK.
AMY GOODMAN: This is when Breonna’s boyfriend called the police for help.
SADIQA REYNOLDS: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Kenneth Walker.
KENNETH WALKER: I don’t — I don’t know what’s happening. Somebody kicked in the door and shot my girlfriend. … Bre! Oh my god!
911 OPERATOR: You said 26? Where was she shot at?
KENNETH WALKER: I don’t know. She’s on the ground right now. I don’t know. … Help! Oh my god! Breonna’s so ill! Help!
911 OPERATOR: What’s her name, sir? Is she alert and able to talk to you?
KENNETH WALKER: No!
AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s Kenny Walker crying. He calls the police because he doesn’t realize it’s the police who shot his girlfriend dead with these six bullets. Now, this is a critically important point. They were not in uniform, and he clearly did not know who these men were.
SADIQA REYNOLDS: That is exactly right. And so, then you have an attorney general who stands up yesterday and tells us that he should have known, basically, that somehow he did know, because there’s someone else. I know there are 12 people who didn’t hear police, and there are two people that called 911, and there’s Kenny who called 911 to get police on the scene. But somehow you should believe that everybody knew it was police, and so, I mean, this is not a question for a jury. It is unbelievable. It is an unbelievable assault on our intelligence. It is offensive.
And it exposes the system for what it is. This system is designed to protect the privileged. And police have the greatest privilege. And that is why we are in the streets. People are so frustrated with not being heard, not being seen, not being protected or valued.
There are so many problems with this case. And anyone knows — I mean, on average, really, a grand jury could indict 12 people in an hour. I mean, they just keep spitting them out. It’s not a hard process. Prosecutors go in, they give you a little bit of information, and you move on. You vote, and you move on. And if you get a tape of a grand jury, you would see that. In any criminal case — excuse me — you would get a copy of the grand jury indictment. And usually they’re not five minutes long. So, this process of presenting all of this information and contradictory information, that doesn’t happen for regular citizens. That is just not the way the grand jury process works. And those of us who know the system understand that.
You know, and there’s another thing that is important here. The attorney general was not prepared yesterday to tell us whether or not the warrant was even a good warrant. I mean, do you understand that? This woman was killed in March, and we are now in September, and we still don’t know if the warrant that they were relying on was even a good warrant? He did not answer that question. If a white woman — if a 26-year-old white woman was killed in this country, and six months later you could not answer the question about whether or not police went in with a good warrant, this country would burn itself down. But somehow we are supposed to act with all of this restraint and be ready to move on and heal. It is frustrating. The system is completely broken and needs to be reformed, because there’s too much subjectivity.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to ask you about the foot, this new information yesterday, Sadiqa Reynolds, that the attorney general shared, saying that Breonna was shot not five times, but six. When he was questioned about this, to the shock of everyone, he said, “Well, there was something in her foot.” Talk about the significance of what it means to be in her foot.
SADIQA REYNOLDS: Listen, it has been my understanding that Breonna died in the fetal position on the floor. And if you think of police officers — we know that Kenny shot one shot, and he stopped firing. And they continued to fire. They continued to fire repeatedly into that apartment. And apparently, according to the attorney general, a bullet was lodged in her foot.
First of all, even the fact that he is contradicting the death certificate is a question of fact. Was it a bullet? What was lodged there? Who fired it? We need to understand more. This case deserved a jury. I mean, and I prayed. When I heard that, all I could think of was, I pray to God that he has told her mother, before he told the world, that her baby was shot in the foot. I hope he had a very long conversation with the mother. I have since learned that there was not enough conversation. He did not explain everything. This is a —
AMY GOODMAN: And just to be clear, it means she was lying down already.
SADIQA REYNOLDS: Oh, no doubt about it. No doubt about it, she was lying down already. And you heard him talk about there was one bullet that would have killed her. But I don’t know if it was — was it the first bullet? So, did she suffer through the first three or four or five, and then it was the sixth one that killed her? Which one? Which bullet killed her? How long was she alive? How long did she suffer? She seemed to be alive when Kenny was on that telephone. And again, they’re saying to us, well, she — you know, that one fatal bullet would have killed her within seconds or a couple of minutes.
Well, but there are so many questions here that go unanswered because of this attorney general’s process. How this has been handled is an incredible miscarriage of justice for this city. We deserve better. Breonna Taylor deserved better. Her mother deserved better than this.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Sadiqa, you’ve said that nobody would have even known the names of Breonna Taylor or Kenneth Walker if it weren’t for the protesters. Could you talk about the significance of the protests that have broken out, not just in Louisville, but all across the country? And also, what happened last night? Over a hundred protesters were reportedly arrested in Louisville?
SADIQA REYNOLDS: So, let’s start with the fact that in March, when Breonna was first killed by police, we were at the top of the pandemic, and people were just trying to figure out what this virus was, how their offices were going to work, and we heard that Breonna Taylor had been killed. The officers did not have on body cameras. Basically, it was described to us as a drug raid. And when they went in, the suspect fired, hitting an officer, and then, you know, the female suspect was basically killed in the crossfire.
And so, that is not exactly what happened, right? And so people began to ask questions. People began to ask questions, but, again, they’re doing it in a pandemic with so many other things happening. And this case is sort of pushed to the back of our minds — some of us. But, of course, you have her mother still fighting for answers, because she knows who her child is. And you have us calling to say, “Explain again why there are no body cameras. It doesn’t make sense. These officers could not have been undercover. You know, they obviously were going to serve a warrant. Any cover would have been blown. Why were there no body cameras?” And so you have this repeated questioning, but no traction, no changes, the police department just saying they did everything right.
And then, Kenny Walker, of course, is in custody. So, in March, he’s arrested. He’s locked up in jail. And March, April, May, you begin — more and more people are calling her name and saying her name, and we begin to get the national attention. And when that happens, that’s when we see Kenny released from custody, with charges dismissed.
And I have to commend one of the judges here. I have to tell you, Judge Stevens released Kenny on home incarceration. That was a sign and a half that this case was a terrible case. When a Black man shoots a white police officer, and a Black judge says, “I’m not going to make him stay in jail because there’s something wrong here,” that is a sign that this is a problematic case.
And so, you fast-forward. Kenny is ultimately released completely, even from home incarceration. His charges are dismissed. And then people are more and more saying her name across the country, across the globe, and you get movement, you get motion. And these protesters — and I have certainly been one of them — for 118 days, people have protested in this city, raising their voices for justice, for change — to begin with, police reform, but even really going beyond that and saying, “There are injustices in every system in this city, and we want to see things change.”
And those powerful protests have been successful. And it was important for us to say to everyone who had been willing to sacrifice their freedom, their bodies, their time, to raise their voices here in Louisville — because it has been dangerous for us. I mean, the first night of protest, we were met with tear gas and pepper bullets. Police started that aggression. And then it did get — you know, things got out of hand very quickly.
David McAtee, I think you all remember — excuse me — David McAtee was killed because police were at 26th and Broadway. And if you could just understand Louisville, most of the protests have been happening in downtown Louisville, some to the east of downtown. The West End of this city is much like other urban areas: uninvested, no — nothing there. So, these folks are not at 5th Street, not in the Highlands, but instead they’re all the way down, 21 blocks away from any protest, at 26th and Broadway. And they are just living. They’re doing what they do all the time. Police take the National Guard down there. They begin shooting pepper bullets at people. David McAtee, who is a beloved community member, and even beloved by police — he catered their trainings — he shoots a gun into the air. We aren’t sure that he even realizes it’s police that are outside. He seems to be trying to disperse the crowd. Police return fire. He is killed. But it started with them shooting people who were out — they’re literally shooting at people’s heads for protest violations — I mean, I’m so sorry, for curfew violations. For curfew violations.
So, you move forward from there, and I think it’s important for us to say what was accomplished in these protests. It was more than just whether or not Daniel Cameron decided to indict these officers. We can’t just say that’s the only way we can measure the success of the protesters, but instead we have to talk about the fact that the police chief was exited; that there was one officer that was indicted; that now we have mandatory body cameras here in Louisville, Kentucky, when there’s a search warrant issued; that we’ve banned no-knocks in this city, so no more no-knock warrants; the creation of a civilian review board in order to create an Office of Inspector General to oversee the police department. This is a review board that I am currently on and helping to create. Those kinds of things have happened — a top-to-bottom review of our police department. Now, in writing, we have this duty to intervene; our police officers have a responsibility to intervene if they see an officer engaged in misconduct. You and I probably would have thought that that was something that was just understood. Well, now it’s in writing, because we couldn’t count on that. We’re getting an independent investigation of our police department. There are so many things.
And I go back to, again, if this case had not made the national news, please believe me, Kenneth Walker would have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. It is because of the protests in the street that this case changed. We changed everything.
AMY GOODMAN: And I want to again reiterate, he was arrested and jailed as he is mourning the death of his girlfriend who is gunned down in front of him. But I want to go back to the Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron, who, of course, announced the grand jury decision and talked about who he doesn’t want weighing in.
ATTORNEY GENERAL DANIEL CAMERON: There will be celebrities, influencers and activists who, having never lived in Kentucky, will try to tell us how to feel, suggesting they understand the facts of this case and that they know our community and the commonwealth better than we do. But they don’t. Let’s not give in to their attempts to influence our thinking or capture our emotions.
AMY GOODMAN: And then, this is the Republican Attorney General Daniel Cameron just weeks ago, who spoke at the Republican National Convention and referenced the killing of Breonna Taylor.
ATTORNEY GENERAL DANIEL CAMERON: It was General Dwight Eisenhower, a future Republican president, who said, “Democracy is a system that recognizes the equality of humans before the law.” Whether you are the family of Breonna Taylor or David Dohrn, these are the ideals that will heal our nation’s wounds. Republicans will never turn a blind eye to unjust acts, but neither will we accept an all-out assault on Western civilization.
AMY GOODMAN: And yesterday at the news conference, President Trump praised Cameron as a rising star in the Republican Party. Your response, Sadiqa Reynolds?
SADIQA REYNOLDS: He certainly is a rising star in the Republican Party. And I can see very clearly how he is going to be used against us in every imaginable way.
I think we are in a very, very dangerous territory in this country. And there are people right now who are so focused on greed and their money and what they can achieve for themselves, and they are missing the bigger picture. This democracy is under attack. It is not just under attack for Black Americans, it is under attack for all of us. Life as we know it is changing every day, little by little. Our democracy is being killed. It’s the death of a thousand cuts. And we all had better start paying attention.
Daniel Cameron’s rhetoric sounds good. He is an articulate Black man. And I really, generally — I hate when people say that: “Oh, you’re so articulate.” But let me tell you, listening to him deliver the results of his investigation yesterday and the grand jury, the danger that is posed to us is real. And we had better be ready to respond, because this country will change and is changing. And it is not for the better. And that is not a political statement. That is not about partisanship from me. I don’t care if you are a Democrat or a Republican; I run a nonpartisan organization. But what I care about is justice. What I care about is somebody who is honest. And when you look a man in the eye and you expect for them to do their job, and they come back and that is not what happened, you need to hold them accountable.
We are in danger in this state and in this country. It is not a joke. It is really almost unreal. And people of every race, nationality, gender, religion had better be paying attention and get out of your head about what is best for you, and think about this country. We have got to do something different here.
AMY GOODMAN: Very quickly, Sadiqa, on the issue of the fired detective, Hankison, who fired wildly into the bedroom window, into the glass door, ultimately not charged for anything involving the death of Breonna Taylor, but for the bullets going into the neighbor’s apartment, he is a person who we’ve learned more about because as his picture got out there, one woman after another came forward and said, “That man sexually assaulted me, picked me up saying he was a cop, he would drive me home after I left a bar,” and others said that, too. Can you talk about the fact that he might not even face any jail time, or up to 15? He faces three charges of wanton endangerment.
SADIQA REYNOLDS: You can count on him not facing any charges — any time at all. In fact, it’s my understanding that he was arrested in Shelby County. He turned himself in. He posted his $15,000 bond, and he was out. So, this is, gain, another slap in the face. We can plan on him absolutely not spending any time in jail for the death of Breonna Taylor, for wanton endangerment, for anything related to the shooting, the killing that happened at that apartment complex that night.
He may end up spending time in jail for the assault on these women, who I think have tried to defer. I think they have really made an attempt to honor this Black woman’s life by sort of silencing themselves. And I expect that they will step forward even more now as time goes on. Also, it is my understanding that those things are being investigated. But all it’s going to show us is, you can murder a Black woman in America and serve no time, but the sexual assault of a white woman, we’ll come down on you for that. Or maybe —
AMY GOODMAN: And the bullets into the neighbor’s apartment, that was a white family?
SADIQA REYNOLDS: I don’t know who the families were. I don’t know what color, what race the people were. I have no idea. I haven’t — to me, the issue is not in that case what their race was. I’m simply saying if — let me say this. Let me calm down and say this clearly.
If we were talking about a 26-year-old white woman in September, the results of this case would have been different. That’s what Black people know for sure, and that’s why they’re in the street. And that is also why our allies are in the street with us.
And I think it is important for us to say here, in Louisville, Kentucky, the demonstrations, the rallies, the protests, they have been integrated. So, while we certainly have challenges around race, we also have alignment, too, for justice. And it has been a really interesting thing to watch. And I pray that we continue to move together as best we can. I said yesterday, and I sincerely mean it, I think we are in a fight for the soul of our country. We are at 49-51, and the good guys are losing. But it is a close fight. We’ve got to keep fighting.
AMY GOODMAN: Sadiqa Reynolds, thanks so much for joining us, president and CEO of the Louisville Urban League, an attorney in Kentucky.
I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh. When we come back, we go to Milwaukee, where the investigation of the police shooting of Jacob Blake is underway. We’ll speak to Jake Blake’s father, Jacob Blake Sr. Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-09-24--Headlines for September 24, 2020

Headlines for September 24, 2020

President Donald Trump Wednesday refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power after the election if he loses the vote to Joe Biden .
Trump was asked about this during a White House press briefing .
President Donald Trump : “ Well , we ’ re going to have to see what happens .
You know that .
I ’ ve been complaining very strongly about the ballots .
And the ballots are a disaster .
And — and ” — President Donald Trump : “ We want to — we want to have — get rid of the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a very — we ’ ll have a very peaceful — there won ’ t be a transfer , frankly .
There will be a continuation .
The ballots are out of control .
You know it .
And you know who knows it better than anybody else ?
The Democrats know it better than anybody else.
” Earlier this week , Trump said he expects the November election to end up before the Supreme Court , saying that ’ s why he ’ s pushing the Senate to rapidly confirm a replacement @ @ @ @ @ @ @ died last week .
Meanwhile , The Atlantic magazine has revealed Republican Party officials are looking at ways to subvert the election process to ensure Trump stays in power .
One option would be to have Republican-led state legislatures claim the results of the election to be fraudulent , and then choose a slate of Republican electors to vote in the Electoral College regardless of the outcome of the actual vote .

President Donald Trump Wednesday refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power after the election if he loses the vote to Joe Biden. Trump was asked about this during a White House press briefing.
Brian Karem: “Will you commit here today for a peaceful transferral of power after the election?”
President Donald Trump: “Well, we’re going to have to see what happens. You know that. I’ve been complaining very strongly about the ballots. And the ballots are a disaster. And — and” —
Brian Karem: “I understand that. But people are rioting.”
President Donald Trump: “I know. I know.”
Brian Karem: “Do you commit to making sure that there’s a peaceful transferral of power?”
President Donald Trump: “We want to — we want to have — get rid of the ballots, and you’ll have a very — we’ll have a very peaceful — there won’t be a transfer, frankly. There will be a continuation. The ballots are out of control. You know it. And you know who knows it better than anybody else? The Democrats know it better than anybody else.”
Earlier this week, Trump said he expects the November election to end up before the Supreme Court, saying that’s why he’s pushing the Senate to rapidly confirm a replacement for Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who died last week.
Meanwhile, The Atlantic magazine has revealed Republican Party officials are looking at ways to subvert the election process to ensure Trump stays in power. One option would be to have Republican-led state legislatures claim the results of the election to be fraudulent, and then choose a slate of Republican electors to vote in the Electoral College regardless of the outcome of the actual vote.


democracynow--2020-09-25--"Without Love, We Won't Make It": Bishop Michael Curry on Faith & What's at Stake in November

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
The U.S. coronavirus death toll officially passed 200,000 this week .
On Sunday , the Washington National Cathedral of the Episcopal Church marked the sobering milestone by tolling its bell 200 times , once for every thousand lives lost .
Well , to discuss those lives lost and the extraordinary circumstances the nation faces today , we spend the rest of the hour with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Episcopal Church , the first African American to lead the denomination .
Bishop Curry is the descendant of enslaved Africans , the son of the late civil rights activist Reverend Kenneth Curry .
Bishop Curry gained worldwide recognition when he delivered a sermon at the wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle in 2018 , where he preached about slavery , poverty , and the enduring power of love .
On that day , he later said in an interview he could , quote , “ feel slaves around the place , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ voice was somehow heard that day.
” Bishop Michael Curry was previously the bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of North Carolina , a swing state that President Trump visited just yesterday for the fifth time this month to campaign .
Bishop Michael Curry joins us now from Raleigh in this key battleground state of North Carolina .
We thank you so much for joining us , Bishop Curry .
Your new book is Love Is the Way : Holding on to Hope in Troubling Times .
Bishop Curry , welcome to Democracy Now @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
BISHOP MICHAEL CURRY : Well , without love , we won ’ t make it .
With love , we will .
But love by itself , obviously , is not enough .
But we need love , because love not only — and again , I ’ m not talking about love as a sentiment ; I ’ m talking about love as a personal and moral commitment to a particular way of living , a way of living that is unselfish , even sacrificial , a way of living that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the well-being of others , as well as the self .
That ’ s the kind of love that you see in the New Testament teachings of Jesus of Nazareth , that he learned from the Hebrew Scriptures , from Moses .
That ’ s the kind of love , if you will , that you see when Jesus encountered a lawyer , and they talked about — the lawyer came and said , “ What must I do to inherit eternal life ?
” Jesus said , “ What did Moses say @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and love your neighbor.
” Jesus said , “ That ’ s it .
Do that , and you will live .
You will find life.
” The lawyer came back — he was a lawyer , so he comes back , and he said , “ But could we more narrowly define who is my neighbor ?
” And that was the point at which Jesus told the parable of the Good Samaritan , of someone who helped someone else who was of a different ethnic group , probably a different set @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a different religious take on their religious community , someone who was different , someone who was the other .
And this man helped that other person simply because they were a brother , a fellow child of God , made in God ’ s image and likeness .
And Jesus says , “ Who was neighbor to that man ?
” And the guy says , “ Well , the one who helped him out.
” And Jesus says , “ Go and do thou likewise.
” The love that I ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is for the other , as well as the self , that is for God and for all of us .
It is a love that seeks to create and make a better world , a more humane world , a more just world .
Without that commitment to love , then all the practical details won ’ t work .
But with that commitment , we can find a way to solve our problems together , to bring everybody together , bipartisan , across the aisle , ecumenical , interfaith , all @ @ @ @ @ @ @ because we share one moral commitment : to seek the good of others , as well as ourselves .
AMY GOODMAN : Bishop Curry , what about President Trump refusing to say — refusing to commit to a peaceful transition of power ?
BISHOP MICHAEL CURRY : Well , let me just say this .
I am an American .
I love America , and I believe in America ’ s democracy .
And in this democracy , there is a peaceful transition of power .
That is one of the cornerstones , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of this country .
And so , we must all stand for that .
You have to ask President Trump what he was talking about .
Let me tell you what I ’ m talking about .
I ’ m talking about American democracy .
And American democracy — and this doesn ’ t have to do with red or blue .
This is not about Republican , Democrat or independent .
This is about , we actually — can I tell you something ?
One of the things I ’ ve learned @ @ @ @ @ @ @ share more values than we disagree about .
And if we can claim those values , one of which is the — are the basic principles of being a democratic republic , of democracy .
Some of those values are enshrined in the Declaration of Independence : “ We hold these truths to be self-evident , that all men ” — all people — “ are created equal.
” That ’ s a value of this country .
The Gettysburg Address , that contains values of this country .
You can go through @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the columns of the Supreme Court : “ Equal justice under the law.
” If we will stand together for the values that we share , we will find enough common ground to debate and decide and to solve our problems .
And that ’ s democracy .
And that ’ s America .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to ask you about what happened in May .
During the national uprising against police brutality , National Guard and police officers dressed in riot gear fired tear gas , rubber bullets , flashbangs @ @ @ @ @ @ @ White House in Lafayette Square .
Moments later , President Donald Trump walked through the cleared park to have his photo taken with a Bible in front of your church , St. John ’ s Episcopal Church , often called “ the Church of the Presidents , ” which was boarded up .
When he returned to the White House , Trump refused to take questions from reporters as he pumped his fist and posed for another photo op .
This is what he said .
AMY GOODMAN : Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Washington , D.C. , immediately denounced Trump ’ s actions .
This is what she said on the PBS NewsHour explaining why she spoke out .
AMY GOODMAN : That ’ s Episcopal Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde .
You ’ re the presiding bishop of the entire Episcopal Church .
Your thoughts on the use of your church in this way ?
BISHOP MICHAEL CURRY : Well , let me say it this way , and I said it at the time .
It doesn ’ t matter to me whether it is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ White House .
It doesn ’ t matter to me which side of the aisle someone is on .
The church must not be used for partisan political purposes .
The faith , the Christian faith , is not up for sale to anybody , left or right , Democrat or Republican .
And so , the use of the church building , without anybody — we didn ’ t know about it , the bishop of Washington didn ’ t know about it , the pastor of the parish didn ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ simply wrong .
And the use of the Holy Scriptures for partisan purposes by anybody — by any partisan purposes by anybody , that is wrong .
And it is wrong to remove peaceful protesters .
I say all of that — if the president had gone across and asked the pastor of the church , “ Can I go in and say a prayer for the country ?
We ’ ve got some problems , ” or if he had gone across and just simply said to the cameras , “ I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ who disagree with me , and there are people who agree with me , but we ’ re all Americans , and we need to pray for our country , ” I couldn ’ t object to that .
That ’ s fine .
That ’ s spiritual , moral leadership .
But to use the church , the faith of Christianity or anybody ’ s religion , as far as I ’ m concerned , for partisan political purposes is inappropriate and wrong .
Now , having said all of that , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ move beyond that .
We have got to find a way in this country to work together , to exercise our vote , to go out and vote , and vote your values .
I believe that .
Vote your values .
Somebody said , “ Do you mean — what about people who don ’ t share your values ?
” That ’ s their right in this democratic society .
Everybody must go out and vote .
Vote for your values on propositions , for the candidates of your choice .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ do , more importantly .
And this gets back to the importance of the love that I ’ m talking about .
We must find ways to come together and actually acknowledge and get to know each other as people .
And don ’ t think that that ’ s mere sentiment .
Bill Bishop , in that book The Big Sort , talks about how America has basically resegregated itself .
People listen to news media that give them reinforcement of the views they already hold .
People who watch MSNBC do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ likelihood , and vice versa .
My point is , we have actually — people who live in various ZIP codes , we know there are blue ZIP codes , and there are red ZIP codes , and there are a couple of purple ones and different ones .
But people live together with people they already agree with .
We must find a way to come together as people with differences , first on common ground , that we ’ re all children of God , no matter who we are .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ in a few other questions .
And one of them , Scientific American , which hadn ’ t done this in its entire 150-year history , endorsed a presidential candidate .
What can we expect from religious leaders ?
BISHOP MICHAEL CURRY : Religious leaders are moral leaders , and we must articulate the moral values that we stand and believe in .
We believe first in the moral value , in the primacy of unselfish , sacrificial love .
We believe that all men , all people , are created equal .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ created in the image of God equally .
And that means , for me , if we are equal in the eyes of God , we must all be equal in the eyes of the law , and we must all be treated equally as children of God .
That means that there are moral — that moral principle governs a lot .
AMY GOODMAN : But will — Bishop , will religious leaders be taking a stand together ?
BISHOP MICHAEL CURRY : Now , that — I mean , you know @ @ @ @ @ @ @ There are — I ’ m sure there ’ s a diversity of opinion among religious leaders on how to live out those values .
But I think those values are clear .
There are some who wouldn ’ t agree with me .
Well , I can ’ t change their mind , but I stand on the values of love , equality , human dignity .
That means that I don ’ t support policies that separate children from their parents at the border of this country .
I don ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the rights and grant equality to all people in this country , regardless of their race , class , religion , sexual orientation , gender identity , that we are all equal .
That is a value that I believe must be in public policy .
AMY GOODMAN : I wanted to ask you about the amazing sermon you gave at the royal wedding between Prince Harry and Meghan Markle , in which you preached about slavery , poverty , the enduring power of love .
Earlier this year , the couple resigned @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Afua Hirsch wrote a piece in The New York Times titled “ Black Britons Know Why Meghan Markle Wants Out : It ’ s the racism.
” She writes , “ From the first headline about her being ' ( almost ) straight outta Compton ' and having 'exotic ' DNA , the racist treatment of Meghan has been impossible to ignore .
Princess Michael of Kent wore an overtly racist brooch in the duchess ’ s company .
A BBC host compared the couple ’ s newborn baby to a chimpanzee.
” @ @ @ @ @ @ @ out of the church , that they took this stand — or , that they were forced out of the royal family , that they took this stand to protest racism ?
BISHOP MICHAEL CURRY : You know , the answer is , I don ’ t know .
Let me tell you what I do know .
What I do know is that we , in this country — because I don ’ t know all the details of Britain , but I know the United States of America .
And I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ racism that we must address , that are deeply entrenched in our history .
And we have to face those issues in that past .
The reality of what ’ s going on right now , with the Breonna Taylor situation , this woman who was innocent and she was gunned down , or George Floyd — and it goes back to Emmett Till .
We ’ ve got some issues that are long-standing , that have deep roots in racism in this country .
And we must face those questions now and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the changes that will be necessary to right the wrongs , and then also to create the kind of community among us where there is room and space for all of us — Black , white , Brown , Indigenous , Asian — all of us .
AMY GOODMAN : We have to leave it there .
Bishop Curry , thank you so much for being with us , the first African American bishop of the Episcopal Church .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
The U.S. coronavirus death toll officially passed 200,000 this week. On Sunday, the Washington National Cathedral of the Episcopal Church marked the sobering milestone by tolling its bell 200 times, once for every thousand lives lost.
Well, to discuss those lives lost and the extraordinary circumstances the nation faces today, we spend the rest of the hour with Bishop Michael Curry, presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, the first African American to lead the denomination. Bishop Curry is the descendant of enslaved Africans, the son of the late civil rights activist Reverend Kenneth Curry.
Bishop Curry gained worldwide recognition when he delivered a sermon at the wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle in 2018, where he preached about slavery, poverty, and the enduring power of love. On that day, he later said in an interview he could, quote, “feel slaves around the place,” and “it was like their voice was somehow heard that day.”
Bishop Michael Curry was previously the bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of North Carolina, a swing state that President Trump visited just yesterday for the fifth time this month to campaign. Bishop Michael Curry joins us now from Raleigh in this key battleground state of North Carolina.
We thank you so much for joining us, Bishop Curry. Your new book is Love Is the Way: Holding on to Hope in Troubling Times. Bishop Curry, welcome to Democracy Now! Do you think love is enough?
BISHOP MICHAEL CURRY: Well, without love, we won’t make it. With love, we will. But love by itself, obviously, is not enough. But we need love, because love not only — and again, I’m not talking about love as a sentiment; I’m talking about love as a personal and moral commitment to a particular way of living, a way of living that is unselfish, even sacrificial, a way of living that seeks the good and the welfare and the well-being of others, as well as the self. That’s the kind of love that you see in the New Testament teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, that he learned from the Hebrew Scriptures, from Moses.
That’s the kind of love, if you will, that you see when Jesus encountered a lawyer, and they talked about — the lawyer came and said, “What must I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus said, “What did Moses say in the law? Love God, and love your neighbor.” Jesus said, “That’s it. Do that, and you will live. You will find life.” The lawyer came back — he was a lawyer, so he comes back, and he said, “But could we more narrowly define who is my neighbor?” And that was the point at which Jesus told the parable of the Good Samaritan, of someone who helped someone else who was of a different ethnic group, probably a different set of politics, someone who was of a different religious take on their religious community, someone who was different, someone who was the other. And this man helped that other person simply because they were a brother, a fellow child of God, made in God’s image and likeness. And Jesus says, “Who was neighbor to that man?” And the guy says, “Well, the one who helped him out.” And Jesus says, “Go and do thou likewise.”
The love that I’m talking about is a love that is for the other, as well as the self, that is for God and for all of us. It is a love that seeks to create and make a better world, a more humane world, a more just world. Without that commitment to love, then all the practical details won’t work. But with that commitment, we can find a way to solve our problems together, to bring everybody together, bipartisan, across the aisle, ecumenical, interfaith, all races, all stripes and types, because we share one moral commitment: to seek the good of others, as well as ourselves.
AMY GOODMAN: Bishop Curry, what about President Trump refusing to say — refusing to commit to a peaceful transition of power?
BISHOP MICHAEL CURRY: Well, let me just say this. I am an American. I love America, and I believe in America’s democracy. And in this democracy, there is a peaceful transition of power. That is one of the cornerstones, one of the great heritages — heritage of this country. And so, we must all stand for that. You have to ask President Trump what he was talking about. Let me tell you what I’m talking about. I’m talking about American democracy.
And American democracy — and this doesn’t have to do with red or blue. This is not about Republican, Democrat or independent. This is about, we actually — can I tell you something? One of the things I’ve learned over the years is that we actually share more values than we disagree about. And if we can claim those values, one of which is the — are the basic principles of being a democratic republic, of democracy. Some of those values are enshrined in the Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men” — all people — “are created equal.” That’s a value of this country. The Gettysburg Address, that contains values of this country. You can go through the pantheon of this country, above the columns of the Supreme Court: “Equal justice under the law.” If we will stand together for the values that we share, we will find enough common ground to debate and decide and to solve our problems. And that’s democracy. And that’s America.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to ask you about what happened in May. During the national uprising against police brutality, National Guard and police officers dressed in riot gear fired tear gas, rubber bullets, flashbangs to disperse peaceful protesters across from the White House in Lafayette Square. Moments later, President Donald Trump walked through the cleared park to have his photo taken with a Bible in front of your church, St. John’s Episcopal Church, often called “the Church of the Presidents,” which was boarded up. When he returned to the White House, Trump refused to take questions from reporters as he pumped his fist and posed for another photo op. This is what he said.
REPORTER 1: Was this your idea, Mr. President?
JIM ACOSTA: Do you have a word for the protesters that were tear-gassed so you could make that trip, Mr. President? Protesters were tear-gassed.
REPORTER 2: Mr. President, what are you doing about excessive police use of force?
JIM ACOSTA: Mr. President, is this still a democracy?
AMY GOODMAN: Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde, head of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, D.C., immediately denounced Trump’s actions. This is what she said on the PBS NewsHour explaining why she spoke out.
BISHOP MARIANN EDGAR BUDDE: It was a confluence of events in the very short period of time when the images of the president, following the dispersal of the crowds that you mentioned, following his extremely inflammatory, to my ears, remarks in the Rose Garden, and then bringing himself and his entourage into our sacred space, using it as a backdrop and holding the Bible, as if to put on the mantle of religious authority or blessing of what he had just said and done. And I felt it was urgent to remove that association as quickly as possible and to state our position in faithfulness to the gospel as we understand it.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Episcopal Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde. You’re the presiding bishop of the entire Episcopal Church. Your thoughts on the use of your church in this way?
BISHOP MICHAEL CURRY: Well, let me say it this way, and I said it at the time. It doesn’t matter to me whether it is a Democrat or a Republican in the White House. It doesn’t matter to me which side of the aisle someone is on. The church must not be used for partisan political purposes. The faith, the Christian faith, is not up for sale to anybody, left or right, Democrat or Republican. And so, the use of the church building, without anybody — we didn’t know about it, the bishop of Washington didn’t know about it, the pastor of the parish didn’t know about it — that is just simply wrong. And the use of the Holy Scriptures for partisan purposes by anybody — by any partisan purposes by anybody, that is wrong. And it is wrong to remove peaceful protesters.
I say all of that — if the president had gone across and asked the pastor of the church, “Can I go in and say a prayer for the country? We’ve got some problems,” or if he had gone across and just simply said to the cameras, “I know you all — there are people who disagree with me, and there are people who agree with me, but we’re all Americans, and we need to pray for our country,” I couldn’t object to that. That’s fine. That’s spiritual, moral leadership. But to use the church, the faith of Christianity or anybody’s religion, as far as I’m concerned, for partisan political purposes is inappropriate and wrong.
Now, having said all of that, though, we’ve got to move beyond that. We have got to find a way in this country to work together, to exercise our vote, to go out and vote, and vote your values. I believe that. Vote your values. Somebody said, “Do you mean — what about people who don’t share your values?” That’s their right in this democratic society. Everybody must go out and vote. Vote for your values on propositions, for the candidates of your choice.
But here’s what we must do, more importantly. And this gets back to the importance of the love that I’m talking about. We must find ways to come together and actually acknowledge and get to know each other as people. And don’t think that that’s mere sentiment. Bill Bishop, in that book The Big Sort, talks about how America has basically resegregated itself. People listen to news media that give them reinforcement of the views they already hold. People who watch MSNBC do not watch Fox News, in all likelihood, and vice versa. My point is, we have actually — people who live in various ZIP codes, we know there are blue ZIP codes, and there are red ZIP codes, and there are a couple of purple ones and different ones. But people live together with people they already agree with. We must find a way to come together as people with differences, first on common ground, that we’re all children of God, no matter who we are.
AMY GOODMAN: Bishop Curry —
BISHOP MICHAEL CURRY: And then — yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to get in a few other questions. And one of them, Scientific American, which hadn’t done this in its entire 150-year history, endorsed a presidential candidate. What can we expect from religious leaders?
BISHOP MICHAEL CURRY: Religious leaders are moral leaders, and we must articulate the moral values that we stand and believe in. We believe first in the moral value, in the primacy of unselfish, sacrificial love. We believe that all men, all people, are created equal. Genesis 1 says that. We are created in the image of God equally. And that means, for me, if we are equal in the eyes of God, we must all be equal in the eyes of the law, and we must all be treated equally as children of God. That means that there are moral — that moral principle governs a lot.
AMY GOODMAN: But will — Bishop, will religious leaders be taking a stand together?
BISHOP MICHAEL CURRY: Now, that — I mean, you know how many religious leaders there are? There are — I’m sure there’s a diversity of opinion among religious leaders on how to live out those values. But I think those values are clear. There are some who wouldn’t agree with me. Well, I can’t change their mind, but I stand on the values of love, equality, human dignity. That means that I don’t support policies that separate children from their parents at the border of this country. I don’t support policies that do not respect the rights and grant equality to all people in this country, regardless of their race, class, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, that we are all equal. That is a value that I believe must be in public policy.
AMY GOODMAN: Bishop Curry —
BISHOP MICHAEL CURRY: So, I’m a moral leader.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you about the amazing sermon you gave at the royal wedding between Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, in which you preached about slavery, poverty, the enduring power of love. Earlier this year, the couple resigned from the royal family, essentially. Afua Hirsch wrote a piece in The New York Times titled “Black Britons Know Why Meghan Markle Wants Out: It’s the racism.” She writes, “From the first headline about her being '(almost) straight outta Compton' and having 'exotic' DNA, the racist treatment of Meghan has been impossible to ignore. Princess Michael of Kent wore an overtly racist brooch in the duchess’s company. A BBC host compared the couple’s newborn baby to a chimpanzee.” Do you think that they were forced out of the church, that they took this stand — or, that they were forced out of the royal family, that they took this stand to protest racism?
BISHOP MICHAEL CURRY: You know, the answer is, I don’t know. Let me tell you what I do know. What I do know is that we, in this country — because I don’t know all the details of Britain, but I know the United States of America. And I know that we have some issues of racism that we must address, that are deeply entrenched in our history. And we have to face those issues in that past.
The reality of what’s going on right now, with the Breonna Taylor situation, this woman who was innocent and she was gunned down, or George Floyd — and it goes back to Emmett Till. We’ve got some issues that are long-standing, that have deep roots in racism in this country. And we must face those questions now and work together to find the reforms and the changes that will be necessary to right the wrongs, and then also to create the kind of community among us where there is room and space for all of us — Black, white, Brown, Indigenous, Asian — all of us.
AMY GOODMAN: We have to leave it there. Bishop Curry, thank you so much for being with us, the first African American bishop of the Episcopal Church. I’m Amy Goodman.


democracynow--2020-09-25--Bernie Sanders on How to Block Trump from Stealing Election & Preserve American Democracy

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
As we end this segment , let ’ s hear from President Trump speaking to delegates at the Republican National Convention last month .
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP : The only way they can take this election away from us is if this is a rigged election .
We ’ re going to win this election .
We ’ re going to win this election .
… What they ’ re doing is using COVID to steal an @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to defraud the American people , all of our people , of a fair and free election .
And we can ’ t do that .
AMY GOODMAN : On Thursday afternoon , independent Senator Bernie Sanders spoke out , responding to Trump ’ s remarks .
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS : I think it is terribly important that we actually listen to and take seriously what Donald Trump is saying .
Several weeks ago , speaking at the Republican National Convention , Trump said — and I quote — “ The only way @ @ @ @ @ @ @ us is if this is a rigged election , ” end of quote .
What is remarkable about that statement is that he made it at a time when almost every national poll had him behind and when he was trailing in polls in most battleground states .
Think about what that statement means .
Think hard about what that statement means .
What he is saying is that if he wins the election , that ’ s great , but if he loses , it ’ s rigged , because the only @ @ @ @ @ @ @ lose is if it ’ s rigged .
And if it ’ s rigged , then he is not leaving office .
Heads , I win ; tails , you lose .
In other words , in Trump ’ s mind , there is no conceivable way that he should leave office .
AMY GOODMAN : And this is how independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont ended his address .
First , it is absolutely imperative that we have , by far , the largest voter turnout in American history and that people @ @ @ @ @ @ @ someone who is strongly supporting Joe Biden , let ’ s be clear : A landslide victory for Biden will make it virtually impossible for Trump to deny the results , and is our best means for defending democracy .
Second , with the pandemic and a massive increase in mail-in voting , state legislatures must take immediate action now — now — to allow mail-in votes to be counted before Election Day , as they come in .
In fact , 32 states allow for the counting or processing of absentee ballots @ @ @ @ @ @ @ before Election Day .
All states should do the same .
The faster all ballots are counted , the less window there is for chaos and conspiracy theories .
Third , the news media needs to prepare the American people to understand there is no longer a single Election Day and that it is very possible that we may not know the results on November 3rd .
Fifth , in the Congress and in state legislatures , hearings must be held as soon as possible to explain to the public how the Election @ @ @ @ @ @ @ will be handled .
As we count every vote and prevent voter intimidation , everything possible must be done to prevent chaos , disinformation and , yes , even violence .
AMY GOODMAN : Senator Bernie Sanders , speaking in Washington , D.C. , Thursday in his first major public speech since bowing out of the presidential race .
Coming up , we ’ ll speak to one of the most powerful religious leaders in the country , Bishop Michael Curry , the presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church , the first African @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! As we end this segment, let’s hear from President Trump speaking to delegates at the Republican National Convention last month.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The only way they can take this election away from us is if this is a rigged election. We’re going to win this election. We’re going to win this election. … What they’re doing is using COVID to steal an election. They’re using COVID to defraud the American people, all of our people, of a fair and free election. And we can’t do that.
AMY GOODMAN: On Thursday afternoon, independent Senator Bernie Sanders spoke out, responding to Trump’s remarks.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: I think it is terribly important that we actually listen to and take seriously what Donald Trump is saying. Several weeks ago, speaking at the Republican National Convention, Trump said — and I quote — “The only way they can take this election away from us is if this is a rigged election,” end of quote. What is remarkable about that statement is that he made it at a time when almost every national poll had him behind and when he was trailing in polls in most battleground states.
Think about what that statement means. Think hard about what that statement means. What he is saying is that if he wins the election, that’s great, but if he loses, it’s rigged, because the only way — the only way he can lose is if it’s rigged. And if it’s rigged, then he is not leaving office. Heads, I win; tails, you lose. In other words, in Trump’s mind, there is no conceivable way that he should leave office.
AMY GOODMAN: And this is how independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont ended his address.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: In this unprecedented moment what can we as a people do in the struggle to preserve American democracy?
First, it is absolutely imperative that we have, by far, the largest voter turnout in American history and that people vote as early as possible. As someone who is strongly supporting Joe Biden, let’s be clear: A landslide victory for Biden will make it virtually impossible for Trump to deny the results, and is our best means for defending democracy.
Second, with the pandemic and a massive increase in mail-in voting, state legislatures must take immediate action now — now — to allow mail-in votes to be counted before Election Day, as they come in. In fact, 32 states allow for the counting or processing of absentee ballots — verifying signatures, for example — before Election Day. All states should do the same. The faster all ballots are counted, the less window there is for chaos and conspiracy theories.
Third, the news media needs to prepare the American people to understand there is no longer a single Election Day and that it is very possible that we may not know the results on November 3rd.
Fourth, social media companies must finally get their act together and stop people from using their tools to spread disinformation and to threaten and harass election officials.
Fifth, in the Congress and in state legislatures, hearings must be held as soon as possible to explain to the public how the Election Day process and the days that follow will be handled. As we count every vote and prevent voter intimidation, everything possible must be done to prevent chaos, disinformation and, yes, even violence.
Lastly, and most importantly, the American people, no matter what their political view, must make it clear that American democracy will not be destroyed.
AMY GOODMAN: Senator Bernie Sanders, speaking in Washington, D.C., Thursday in his first major public speech since bowing out of the presidential race.
Coming up, we’ll speak to one of the most powerful religious leaders in the country, Bishop Michael Curry, the presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, the first African American to lead the denomination. Stay with us.