democracynow--2020-01-07--Meet Brittany Kaiser, Cambridge Analytica Whistleblower Releasing Troves of New Files from Data Firm

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : New details are emerging about how the shadowy data firm Cambridge Analytica worked to manipulate voters across the globe , from the 2016 election in the United States to the Brexit campaign in Britain to elections in over 60 countries , including Ukraine , Malaysia , Kenya and Brazil .
Cambridge Analytica was founded by the right-wing billionaire Robert Mercer .
Trump ’ s former adviser Steve Bannon of Breitbart News was one of the company ’ s key strategists and claims @ @ @ @ @ @ @ company collapsed in May 2018 after The Observer newspaper revealed the company had harvested some 87 million Facebook profiles without the users ’ knowledge or consent .
Cambridge Analytica used the data to sway voters during the 2016 campaign .
A new trove of internal Cambridge Analytica documents and emails are being posted on Twitter detailing the company ’ s operations across the globe , including its work with President Trump ’ s former national security adviser John Bolton .
The documents come from Cambridge Analytica whistleblower Brittany Kaiser , who worked at @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in 2018 .
Kaiser is featured prominently in the Netflix documentary The Great Hack , which has been shortlisted for an Oscar .
This is the trailer for the film .
AMY GOODMAN : That ’ s the trailer to the Netflix documentary The Great Hack .
Well , we ’ re joined right now by four guests , by the film ’ s directors , Jehane Noujaim and Karim Amer .
They ’ re the co-directors of The Great Hack , which was just nominated for a BAFTA today .
That ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Oscars .
And it has been shortlisted for the Oscars .
Jehane ’ s past films with Karim Amer include The Square .
She also did Control Room .
Brittany Kaiser is the Cambridge Analytica whistleblower featured in the film .
She ’ s the author of Targeted : The Cambridge Analytica Whistleblower ’ s Inside Story of How Big Data , Trump , and Facebook Broke Democracy and How It Can Happen Again .
And we ’ re joined in Washington , D.C. , by Emma Briant , visiting research associate in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in researching propaganda .
Her forthcoming book is called Propaganda Machine : Inside Cambridge Analytica and the Digital Influence Industry .
We welcome you all to Democracy Now !
Brittany , you have just begun to release a trove of documents from Cambridge Analytica , involves scores of countries , including the United States , including John Bolton , including Iran .
Talk about how — why you decided to begin this release and what are in these documents .
BRITTANY KAISER : Absolutely .
I decided to release the Hindsight Files because @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ ve been waiting and working with investigators and journalists around the world for the past two years .
And what I ’ ve seen is that we don ’ t have enough change in order for voters to be protected , ahead of not just November , but in 27 days the first votes that are cast for the 2020 election .
I really think that digital literacy is the most important point that I ’ m trying to make here .
If you understand the tactics and the strategies that are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you can protect yourself from that .
And I want to be able to empower voters ahead of casting their first vote this year .
AMY GOODMAN : So , talk about these documents , where they came from and what ’ s in them .
BRITTANY KAISER : These are all documents from my time at Cambridge Analytica .
I worked at the company for over three years .
So , it ’ s internal communications and negotiations for data-driven communications projects all around the world .
It ’ s proposals , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ been done to intervene in democracy .
And I think it ’ s so important for people to understand that while sometimes these tactics are benign , sometimes they are incredibly malignant .
And there ’ s evidence of voter suppression , fake news and disinformation , using racism , sexism .
And I just want to make sure that there is real action that is going to be taken , not just ahead of this next election , but for countries all around the world .
We need privacy legislation so badly @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and have an ability to enforce our voting laws online , because right now we can ’ t .
And unfortunately , companies like Facebook are not doing enough to protect us .
AMY GOODMAN : So , for people who are new to what Cambridge Analytica is , why don ’ t you describe why it is and why you have these documents , what Cambridge Analytica ’ s role was in all of these countries , including the United States ?
BRITTANY KAISER : Absolutely .
So , Cambridge Analytica was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Group , Strategic Communication Laboratories .
This is a company that has been around for over 25 years , and they started by using data-driven strategies in order to understand people ’ s psyche , how they make decisions and how they can be persuaded to take certain actions or to prevent people from taking certain actions .
BRITTANY KAISER : Originally they started in defense , yes .
And once they found out how successful that was — that was actually in the Nelson Mandela election in ’ 93 , ’ 94 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ election violence for a defense contract — they realized that that was very useful in elections .
And those strategies developed over two-and-a-half decades in order to no longer just do good things and good impact work , but , unfortunately , to undermine our democracies .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to turn to a clip from the documentary The Great Hack .
In this clip , the British journalist Carole Cadwalladr talks about Cambridge Analytica ’ s parent company SCL .
We also hear the voice of former Cambridge Analytica CEO @ @ @ @ @ @ @ director of SCL .
AMY GOODMAN : So , that ’ s a clip from The Great Hack .
We ’ re going to go to break and then come back .
We ’ re also joined by the directors .
This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The War and Peace Report .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: New details are emerging about how the shadowy data firm Cambridge Analytica worked to manipulate voters across the globe, from the 2016 election in the United States to the Brexit campaign in Britain to elections in over 60 countries, including Ukraine, Malaysia, Kenya and Brazil.
Cambridge Analytica was founded by the right-wing billionaire Robert Mercer. Trump’s former adviser Steve Bannon of Breitbart News was one of the company’s key strategists and claims to have named the company. The company collapsed in May 2018 after The Observer newspaper revealed the company had harvested some 87 million Facebook profiles without the users’ knowledge or consent. Cambridge Analytica used the data to sway voters during the 2016 campaign.
A new trove of internal Cambridge Analytica documents and emails are being posted on Twitter detailing the company’s operations across the globe, including its work with President Trump’s former national security adviser John Bolton. The documents come from Cambridge Analytica whistleblower Brittany Kaiser, who worked at the firm for three-and-a-half years before leaving in 2018. Kaiser is featured prominently in the Netflix documentary The Great Hack, which has been shortlisted for an Oscar. This is the trailer for the film.
DAVID CARROLL: Who has seen an advertisement that has convinced you that your microphone is listening to your conversations? All of your interactions, your credit card swipes, web searches, locations, likes, they’re all collected, in real time, into a trillion-dollar-a-year industry.
CAROLE CADWALLADR: The real game changer was Cambridge Analytica. They worked for the Trump campaign and for the Brexit campaign. They started using information warfare.
DAVID CARROLL: Cambridge Analytica claimed to have 5,000 data points on every American voter.
CAROLE CADWALLADR: I started tracking down all these Cambridge Analytica ex-employees.
CHRISTOPHER WYLIE: Someone else that you should be calling to the committee is Brittany Kaiser.
NEWSCASTER: Brittany Kaiser, once a key player inside Cambridge Analytica, casting herself as a whistleblower.
BRITTANY KAISER: The reason why Google and Facebook are the most powerful companies in the world is because last year data surpassed oil in value. Data is the most valuable asset on Earth. We targeted those whose minds we thought we could change, until they saw the world the way we wanted them to. I do know that their targeting tool was considered a weapon.
PAUL HILDER: There is a possibility that the American public had been experimented on.
DAVID CARROLL: This is becoming a criminal matter.
CHRISTOPHER WYLIE: When people see the extent of the surveillance, I think they’re going to be shocked.
BRITTANY KAISER’S MOTHER: And I still fear for your life.
BRITTANY KAISER: Yeah.
BRITTANY KAISER’S MOTHER: With the powerful people that are involved.
BRITTANY KAISER: But I can’t keep quiet just because it will make powerful people mad.
BRITTANY KAISER’S MOTHER: I know.
RAVI NAIK: Data rights should be considered just fundamental rights.
CAROLE CADWALLADR: This is about the integrity of our democracy. These platforms which were created to connect us have now been weaponized. It’s impossible to know what is what, because nothing is what it seems.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s the trailer to the Netflix documentary The Great Hack. Well, we’re joined right now by four guests, by the film’s directors, Jehane Noujaim and Karim Amer. They’re the co-directors of The Great Hack, which was just nominated for a BAFTA today. That’s t the British equivalent of the Oscars. And it has been shortlisted for the Oscars. Jehane’s past films with Karim Amer include The Square. She also did Control Room. Brittany Kaiser is the Cambridge Analytica whistleblower featured in the film. She’s the author of Targeted: The Cambridge Analytica Whistleblower’s Inside Story of How Big Data, Trump, and Facebook Broke Democracy and How It Can Happen Again. And we’re joined in Washington, D.C., by Emma Briant, visiting research associate in human rights at Bard College who specializes in researching propaganda. Her forthcoming book is called Propaganda Machine: Inside Cambridge Analytica and the Digital Influence Industry.
We welcome you all to Democracy Now! Brittany, you have just begun to release a trove of documents from Cambridge Analytica, involves scores of countries, including the United States, including John Bolton, including Iran. Talk about how — why you decided to begin this release and what are in these documents.
BRITTANY KAISER: Absolutely. I decided to release the Hindsight Files because it’s now 2020. I’ve been waiting and working with investigators and journalists around the world for the past two years. And what I’ve seen is that we don’t have enough change in order for voters to be protected, ahead of not just November, but in 27 days the first votes that are cast for the 2020 election.
I really think that digital literacy is the most important point that I’m trying to make here. If you understand the tactics and the strategies that are being used to manipulate you, then you can protect yourself from that. And I want to be able to empower voters ahead of casting their first vote this year.
AMY GOODMAN: So, talk about these documents, where they came from and what’s in them.
BRITTANY KAISER: These are all documents from my time at Cambridge Analytica. I worked at the company for over three years. So, it’s internal communications and negotiations for data-driven communications projects all around the world. It’s proposals, contracts and case studies of what has been done to intervene in democracy.
And I think it’s so important for people to understand that while sometimes these tactics are benign, sometimes they are incredibly malignant. And there’s evidence of voter suppression, fake news and disinformation, using racism, sexism.
And I just want to make sure that there is real action that is going to be taken, not just ahead of this next election, but for countries all around the world. We need privacy legislation so badly. We need to regulate Big Tech and have an ability to enforce our voting laws online, because right now we can’t. And unfortunately, companies like Facebook are not doing enough to protect us.
AMY GOODMAN: So, for people who are new to what Cambridge Analytica is, why don’t you describe why it is and why you have these documents, what Cambridge Analytica’s role was in all of these countries, including the United States?
BRITTANY KAISER: Absolutely. So, Cambridge Analytica was one of the companies under the SCL Group, Strategic Communication Laboratories. This is a company that has been around for over 25 years, and they started by using data-driven strategies in order to understand people’s psyche, how they make decisions and how they can be persuaded to take certain actions or to prevent people from taking certain actions.
AMY GOODMAN: It was a defense contractor.
BRITTANY KAISER: Originally they started in defense, yes. And once they found out how successful that was — that was actually in the Nelson Mandela election in ’93, ’94 in South Africa, they were preventing election violence for a defense contract — they realized that that was very useful in elections. And those strategies developed over two-and-a-half decades in order to no longer just do good things and good impact work, but, unfortunately, to undermine our democracies.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to a clip from the documentary The Great Hack. In this clip, the British journalist Carole Cadwalladr talks about Cambridge Analytica’s parent company SCL. We also hear the voice of former Cambridge Analytica CEO Alexander Nix, who was previously a director of SCL.
CAROLE CADWALLADR: SCL started out as a military contractor, SCL Defence.
ALEXANDER NIX: We have a fairly substantial defense business. We actually train the British Army, the British Navy, the U.S. Army, U.S. Special Forces. We train NATO, the CIA, State Department, Pentagon. It’s using research to influence behavior of hostile audiences. How do you persuade 14-to-30-year-old Muslim boys not to join al-Qaeda? Essentially communication warfare.
CAROLE CADWALLADR: They had worked in Afghanistan. They had worked in Iraq. They had worked in various places in Eastern Europe. But the real game changer was they started using information warfare in elections.
ALEXANDER NIX: There’s a lot of overlap, because it’s all the same methodology.
CAROLE CADWALLADR: All of the campaigns which Cambridge Analytica/SCL did for the developing world, it was all about practicing some new technology or trick, how to persuade people, how to suppress turnout or how to increase turnout. And then, it’s like, “OK, now I’ve got the hang of it. Let’s use it in Britain and America.”
AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s a clip from The Great Hack. We’re going to go to break and then come back. We’re also joined by the directors. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-01-08--Deadly Earthquake Rocks Puerto Rico, Causing Mass Power Outages and "Infrastructural Aftershocks"

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
I ’ m Amy Goodman , as we turn to Puerto Rico , where President Trump has signed an emergency declaration after a 6.4 magnitude earthquake rocked the island Tuesday morning , killing at least one person , plunging nearly the entire population into darkness in a mass power outage .
It ’ s the most powerful earthquake to hit Puerto Rico in more than a century .
Hundreds of quakes have rattled Puerto Rico since late @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Monday , damaging the coastal town of Guánica .
Damage from the earthquakes have left nearly 350 people homeless , at least 300,000 without drinking water .
Puerto Rico Governor Wanda Vázquez says power would be restored throughout most of the island within 24 to 48 hours .
Schools on the island remain closed Wednesday .
The disaster declaration comes as the U.S. continues to hold up federal aid to Puerto Rico for recovery from Hurricane Maria , which devastated the island in 2017 , killing at least 3,000 people — although some @ @ @ @ @ @ @ much higher .
The storm left Puerto Rico in the dark for months in the longest blackout in U.S. history .
We go now to San Juan , where we ’ re joined by Yarimar Bonilla , political anthropologist at the City University of New York , co-editor of the anthology Aftershocks of Disaster : Puerto Rico Before and After the Storm .
“ Aftershocks ” has taken on a new meaning , Yarimar , Professor Bonilla .
If you can talk about what has happened now ?
How much electricity is restored @ @ @ @ @ @ @ being taken care of right now ?
YARIMAR BONILLA : Well , so , an estimated quarter to one-third of the population has electricity back again , this after they were originally told that the whole island would have electricity back by noon yesterday .
So , a lot of folks are frustrated and feeling that this is like an aftershock of Hurricane Maria or just a repetition of it , in terms of government mismanagement , lack of information , problems with infrastructure , and , you know , these kind of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not just about the earth shaking , but really about a lack of preparedness on the part of the government , and also a deep fragility and vulnerability that was pre-existing because of Hurricane Maria and the debt crisis and everything that placed us in the path of Hurricane Maria being devastating .
AMY GOODMAN : What about the emergency response of President Trump ?
What does this mean for the island ?
Certainly , fiercely criticized for what he did after Maria and the aftermath right through to today .
YARIMAR BONILLA @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , we ’ re grateful that he hasn ’ t tweeted anything offensive about us this time .
So , you know , small favors .
And it is important that he signed that emergency declaration , although it ’ s hard to know what that will mean , since we ’ re still waiting to receive the funds from the emergency declaration of more than two years ago .
And that holdup of funds has meant that roads haven ’ t been repaired , schools that serve as shelters are in disarray @ @ @ @ @ @ @ lack of infrastructure and preparedness that is still being attended to from the last climatic event .
So , it ’ s unclear when that emergency aid will kick in .
Certainly , folks here are not waiting for it .
AMY GOODMAN : And can you talk about the response of Governor Wanda Vázquez ?
Certainly a controversial governor , following the ouster of Governor Rosselló .
We ’ re going to turn right now to a clip of Wanda Vázquez , the Puerto Rican governor , declaring a state of emergency @ @ @ @ @ @ @ VÁZQUEZ : [ translated ] I have just signed a declaration of state of emergency .
We have declared a state of emergency for all of Puerto Rico .
We all felt the earthquake , so we all can benefit from this declaration .
And we can make evaluations for our municipalities and our residences so we can have a clear picture of what the consequences of this earthquake are .
At the same time , I have signed a declaration activating the National Guard of Puerto Rico so the National Guard can @ @ @ @ @ @ @ … We have to manage the situation calmly .
We are all worried .
We are all anxious and nervous .
It is natural .
We are talking about a situation that Puerto Rico had not experienced in the last 102 years .
AMY GOODMAN : That is Governor Wanda Vázquez .
And I also want to read a clip from professor Yarimar Bonilla ’ s book , Aftershocks of Disaster , where she and a co-editor Marisol LeBrón write , quote , “ Since Hurricane Maria made landfall , Puerto Ricans have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s aftershocks .
This happens every time systemic failures are revealed , death and damages are denied , aid is refused , profiteering is discovered , and officials who were not elected by local residents make drastic decisions about the island ’ s future .
… Aftershocks remind us that disasters are not singular events but ongoing processes.
” We just are going right now back to Yarimar Bonilla .
The studio that we were talking to her in , in San Juan , has just lost power .
Professor Bonilla , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Describe the scene right now .
YARIMAR BONILLA : Yes .
This has become a regular occurrence here in Puerto Rico .
We lost power , and the generator , you know , took a hit .
So we ’ re still waiting to get the generator back up .
AMY GOODMAN : And what kind of word are you hearing from hospitals ?
The head of the electric company said most have electricity restored , but this is so incredibly dangerous at a time like this .
YARIMAR BONILLA : Yes .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ s important to distinguish between now and Hurricane Maria is that it ’ s a little bit more geographically contained , the structural damage .
You know , the epicenter is in the southern coast of Puerto Rico .
And I know a lot of folks who have family here are worried about their family members throughout the island , but really it is mostly in the southern coast where people are sleeping outside , having repeated tremors , etc .
In the northern coast , in the rest of Puerto Rico , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ earthquake , but it ’ s mostly infrastructural issues such as this .
And the roads are a little bit better here , so we don ’ t have the problems that we had in Maria of people not being able to get to a hospital and of supplies not being able to get to people .
So there ’ s a little bit — it ’ s a little bit of a better situation , even though it ’ s nerve-racking in a different sense , because , unlike Hurricane Maria , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ ll going to get hit again .
AMY GOODMAN : Well , we ’ ll leave it there .
I thank you so much for you joining us .
Again , the studio just lost power in San Juan as we talk about the aftershock of the earthquake .
Yarimar Bonilla of CUNY .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Thanks for joining us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman, as we turn to Puerto Rico, where President Trump has signed an emergency declaration after a 6.4 magnitude earthquake rocked the island Tuesday morning, killing at least one person, plunging nearly the entire population into darkness in a mass power outage. It’s the most powerful earthquake to hit Puerto Rico in more than a century.
Hundreds of quakes have rattled Puerto Rico since late December. A 5.8 magnitude quake struck Monday, damaging the coastal town of Guánica. Damage from the earthquakes have left nearly 350 people homeless, at least 300,000 without drinking water. Puerto Rico Governor Wanda Vázquez says power would be restored throughout most of the island within 24 to 48 hours. Schools on the island remain closed Wednesday.
The disaster declaration comes as the U.S. continues to hold up federal aid to Puerto Rico for recovery from Hurricane Maria, which devastated the island in 2017, killing at least 3,000 people — although some counts say the death toll is likely much higher. The storm left Puerto Rico in the dark for months in the longest blackout in U.S. history.
We go now to San Juan, where we’re joined by Yarimar Bonilla, political anthropologist at the City University of New York, co-editor of the anthology Aftershocks of Disaster: Puerto Rico Before and After the Storm.
“Aftershocks” has taken on a new meaning, Yarimar, Professor Bonilla. If you can talk about what has happened now? How much electricity is restored? Water? How is the island being taken care of right now?
YARIMAR BONILLA: Well, so, an estimated quarter to one-third of the population has electricity back again, this after they were originally told that the whole island would have electricity back by noon yesterday. So, a lot of folks are frustrated and feeling that this is like an aftershock of Hurricane Maria or just a repetition of it, in terms of government mismanagement, lack of information, problems with infrastructure, and, you know, these kind of infrastructural aftershocks that are not really — not just about the earth shaking, but really about a lack of preparedness on the part of the government, and also a deep fragility and vulnerability that was pre-existing because of Hurricane Maria and the debt crisis and everything that placed us in the path of Hurricane Maria being devastating.
AMY GOODMAN: What about the emergency response of President Trump? What does this mean for the island? Certainly, fiercely criticized for what he did after Maria and the aftermath right through to today.
YARIMAR BONILLA: Yeah, well, you know, we’re grateful that he hasn’t tweeted anything offensive about us this time. So, you know, small favors. And it is important that he signed that emergency declaration, although it’s hard to know what that will mean, since we’re still waiting to receive the funds from the emergency declaration of more than two years ago. And that holdup of funds has meant that roads haven’t been repaired, schools that serve as shelters are in disarray. You know, there is a lack of infrastructure and preparedness that is still being attended to from the last climatic event. So, it’s unclear when that emergency aid will kick in. Certainly, folks here are not waiting for it.
AMY GOODMAN: And can you talk about the response of Governor Wanda Vázquez? Certainly a controversial governor, following the ouster of Governor Rosselló. We’re going to turn right now to a clip of Wanda Vázquez, the Puerto Rican governor, declaring a state of emergency throughout the island.
GOV. WANDA VÁZQUEZ: [translated] I have just signed a declaration of state of emergency. We have declared a state of emergency for all of Puerto Rico. We all felt the earthquake, so we all can benefit from this declaration. And we can make evaluations for our municipalities and our residences so we can have a clear picture of what the consequences of this earthquake are. At the same time, I have signed a declaration activating the National Guard of Puerto Rico so the National Guard can assist us in any way necessary. … We have to manage the situation calmly. We are all worried. We are all anxious and nervous. It is natural. We are talking about a situation that Puerto Rico had not experienced in the last 102 years.
AMY GOODMAN: That is Governor Wanda Vázquez. And I also want to read a clip from professor Yarimar Bonilla’s book, Aftershocks of Disaster, where she and a co-editor Marisol LeBrón write, quote, “Since Hurricane Maria made landfall, Puerto Ricans have found themselves relentlessly jolted by the storm’s aftershocks. This happens every time systemic failures are revealed, death and damages are denied, aid is refused, profiteering is discovered, and officials who were not elected by local residents make drastic decisions about the island’s future. … Aftershocks remind us that disasters are not singular events but ongoing processes.”
We just are going right now back to Yarimar Bonilla. The studio that we were talking to her in, in San Juan, has just lost power. Professor Bonilla, we have you on the telephone. Describe the scene right now.
YARIMAR BONILLA: Yes. This has become a regular occurrence here in Puerto Rico. We lost power, and the generator, you know, took a hit. So we’re still waiting to get the generator back up.
AMY GOODMAN: And what kind of word are you hearing from hospitals? The head of the electric company said most have electricity restored, but this is so incredibly dangerous at a time like this.
YARIMAR BONILLA: Yes. I think that part of what’s important to distinguish between now and Hurricane Maria is that it’s a little bit more geographically contained, the structural damage. You know, the epicenter is in the southern coast of Puerto Rico. And I know a lot of folks who have family here are worried about their family members throughout the island, but really it is mostly in the southern coast where people are sleeping outside, having repeated tremors, etc.
In the northern coast, in the rest of Puerto Rico, we are feeling some aftershocks of the earthquake, but it’s mostly infrastructural issues such as this. And the roads are a little bit better here, so we don’t have the problems that we had in Maria of people not being able to get to a hospital and of supplies not being able to get to people. So there’s a little bit — it’s a little bit of a better situation, even though it’s nerve-racking in a different sense, because, unlike Hurricane Maria, we don’t know when we’ll going to get hit again.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, we’ll leave it there. I thank you so much for you joining us. Again, the studio just lost power in San Juan as we talk about the aftershock of the earthquake. Yarimar Bonilla of CUNY. I’m Amy Goodman. Thanks for joining us.


democracynow--2020-01-08--Iranian-American Lawmaker Warns of Rising Xenophobia as U.S.-Iran Tension Escalates

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to bring in Florida state Representative Anna Eskamani of Orlando .
She is the first Iranian American to be elected to any public office in Florida .
Representative Eskamani , I want to thank you for being with us .
And I was wondering if you can respond to the latest situation that we ’ ve been learning about on the border , as details are emerging about how Border Patrol detained and questioned as many as 200 Iranian Americans @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
New York Times reporting some of them detained were — were detained for hours , including being interrogated about their opinions on the United States and the situation with Iran .
Apparently , many had gone to Vancouver for — whole families , for a Persian pop concert .
REP. ANNA ESKAMANI : Correct , correct , yeah .
Well , thank you so much for having me .
And I also just want to echo the previous speaker ’ s points around nationalism rising in Iran and how there continues to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ government in Iran , but a desire not to go to war .
And that is a very big difference between what the people in Iran want right now , based on talking to my family .
In regards to the border , we saw this happen in action on social media as families began sharing their stories of being stopped and questioned at the border .
And the reality is that when we see the potential war rise in countries like Iran between the United States , we ’ ll see xenophobia @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it ’ s through different rhetoric on the internet or state-sanctioned questioning from customs and border control , it becomes really , really scary and problematic to be an Iranian American in this country .
And I was very pleased to see solidarity coming from other Americans standing side by side those who have been treated this way , and , of course , members of Congress , like , stepping up to ensure that answers are found on what exactly took place and that justice is served for those who are seeking @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ve said that Trump ’ s policies have been catastrophic not just for U.S.-Iran relations , but also for any kind of democratic reform within Iran .
REP. ANNA ESKAMANI : It ’ s been very problematic .
I mean , I have opposed President Trump ’ s policies from day one , and whether it was the travel ban , which selectively chose Muslim-majority countries , Iran included , making it much more difficult for Iranians to travel to this country , to attend our universities , to engage in American democracy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ through really extreme sanctions , prohibiting even humanitarian needs going to Iran , all the way to the rise of hate crimes in this country , as we ’ re seeing not just with Iranian Americans , but other groups , as well .
The reality , too , is that if the Trump administration truly cared about the people of Iran , he wouldn ’ t toss around the idea of attacking cultural sites , which allowed the Islamic Republic of Iran to use as propaganda to help build those crowds during @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , our president continues to be irresponsible with his rhetoric , lacking complete strategy .
And I don ’ t think he and his administration expected this type of reaction from Iran .
However , I remain hopeful for de-escalation .
It was very scary to watch everything take place last night .
But I ’ m very hopeful that members of Congress will ensure that there is accountability and oversight and that we prevent going to war with Iran .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to thank you both for being with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of Orlando , the first Iranian American to be elected in the state of Florida , and Ali Kadivar , who is assistant professor at Boston College in Boston , Massachusetts , also Juan Cole , professor of history at University of Michigan .
When we come back , we go to Puerto Rico , where a 6.4 magnitude earthquake has rocked the island , sparking a massive power outage .
We ’ ll go to that in a second .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to bring in Florida state Representative Anna Eskamani of Orlando. She is the first Iranian American to be elected to any public office in Florida.
Representative Eskamani, I want to thank you for being with us. And I was wondering if you can respond to the latest situation that we’ve been learning about on the border, as details are emerging about how Border Patrol detained and questioned as many as 200 Iranian Americans at the U.S.-Canada border over the weekend. New York Times reporting some of them detained were — were detained for hours, including being interrogated about their opinions on the United States and the situation with Iran. Apparently, many had gone to Vancouver for — whole families, for a Persian pop concert.
REP. ANNA ESKAMANI: Correct, correct, yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. And I also just want to echo the previous speaker’s points around nationalism rising in Iran and how there continues to be a demand for a true democratic government in Iran, but a desire not to go to war. And that is a very big difference between what the people in Iran want right now, based on talking to my family.
In regards to the border, we saw this happen in action on social media as families began sharing their stories of being stopped and questioned at the border. And the reality is that when we see the potential war rise in countries like Iran between the United States, we’ll see xenophobia rise right here locally. And whether it’s through different rhetoric on the internet or state-sanctioned questioning from customs and border control, it becomes really, really scary and problematic to be an Iranian American in this country.
And I was very pleased to see solidarity coming from other Americans standing side by side those who have been treated this way, and, of course, members of Congress, like, stepping up to ensure that answers are found on what exactly took place and that justice is served for those who are seeking it.
AMY GOODMAN: You’ve said that Trump’s policies have been catastrophic not just for U.S.-Iran relations, but also for any kind of democratic reform within Iran.
REP. ANNA ESKAMANI: It’s been very problematic. I mean, I have opposed President Trump’s policies from day one, and whether it was the travel ban, which selectively chose Muslim-majority countries, Iran included, making it much more difficult for Iranians to travel to this country, to attend our universities, to engage in American democracy, whether it was the economic warfare through really extreme sanctions, prohibiting even humanitarian needs going to Iran, all the way to the rise of hate crimes in this country, as we’re seeing not just with Iranian Americans, but other groups, as well.
The reality, too, is that if the Trump administration truly cared about the people of Iran, he wouldn’t toss around the idea of attacking cultural sites, which allowed the Islamic Republic of Iran to use as propaganda to help build those crowds during these funerals. And so, unfortunately, our president continues to be irresponsible with his rhetoric, lacking complete strategy. And I don’t think he and his administration expected this type of reaction from Iran.
However, I remain hopeful for de-escalation. It was very scary to watch everything take place last night. But I’m very hopeful that members of Congress will ensure that there is accountability and oversight and that we prevent going to war with Iran.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you both for being with us, Florida state Representative Anna Eskamani of Orlando, the first Iranian American to be elected in the state of Florida, and Ali Kadivar, who is assistant professor at Boston College in Boston, Massachusetts, also Juan Cole, professor of history at University of Michigan.
When we come back, we go to Puerto Rico, where a 6.4 magnitude earthquake has rocked the island, sparking a massive power outage. We’ll go to that in a second.


democracynow--2020-01-08--Blowback? U.S. Assassination of Soleimani May Weaken Growing Protest Movement in Iran

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : We turn now to Ali Kadivar , assistant professor of sociology and international studies at Boston College , grew up in Iran during the Iran-Iraq War , completed his undergraduate and first graduate degree at the University of Tehran , where he was active in the student movement .
Your response to the effects of what ’ s happening now , the U.S. assassination of the Iranian commander , of Soleimani , now the Iranian attacks , warning Iraq in advance , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a result of those attacks , and this all happening after these major anti-government protests both in Iraq and Iran , what this means for the people of Iran , Professor Kadivar ?
ALI KADIVAR : I think the hit at General Soleimani was also a hit at Iran ’ s domestic politics , Iran ’ s domestic democratic politics .
It can tell us a lot to go on the day before Soleimani was assassinated .
So , you had this series of protests that happened in December .
It was ignited @ @ @ @ @ @ @ but it turned to protests and riots against the Islamic republic .
It ’ s actually very natural to see attacks to banks and buildings when protests are against austerity or when the protests are spontaneous .
There is sociological research and research in political science that documents this , in contrast to what the previous guest , Mr. Marandi , said .
And the Iranian regime ’ s response was brutal and very violent .
Amnesty International says more than 200 people were killed .
Other opposition website Kaleme has reported about @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
What is for sure is that hundreds of people were killed .
And this was a big damage to the prestige of the Revolutionary Guards , that were involved in the repression of the protesters , and the Islamic republic in general .
One day before Soleimani ’ s assassination , the commander of the Revolutionary Guards went to the city of Mashhad in the northwest of Iran .
There was a bloody crackdown on protesters in this city .
And they were trying to make up for the blood that was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ money to the families of the victims and console their pains .
The whole regime was scrambling to explain why the regime had such a violent response .
A letter was signed on that day by 100 conservative figures .
There have been many letters to Supreme Leader Khamenei or to other officials of the Islamic republic criticizing the political situation .
But what is interesting , that this letter was signed by 100 conservative figures .
And they warned Mr. Khamenei that with the current approaches that the government has been taking @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in its way of demise .
Now General Soleimani ’ s assassination completely changed the narrative in Iran .
There is no conversation ongoing about the protests , no conversation ongoing about the violence that the government used in response to protesters .
We see in various videos , it ’ s very clear , that the security forces opened fire on civilians that were unarmed .
This is very visible in various videos that people uploaded to social media .
But then you see someone like Mr. Marandi , who ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ regime , comes out and says this was just a conspiracy of the foreigners .
The narrative has changed .
General Soleimani was popular inside Iran because not much discussion can happen inside Iran criticizing Iran ’ s foreign policy and involvement in Iraq and Syria .
Soleimani was mostly seen as a national figure , as a defender of Iran ’ s national security , as someone that fought with ISIS .
So , killing of Soleimani was seen as an act of aggression on the entirety of Iran , not necessarily @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And that ’ s why we see such a crowd coming out in Soleimani ’ s funeral .
It really heightened the nationalist sentiments among Iranians .
I don ’ t think all these people came out to show support for the regime .
They came to show their support for Iran as a country .
But , of course , not all that crowd can speak for themselves , so when the crowd goes home , then Iranian officials will come out and claim legitimacy from this big crowd that has been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in the history of Islamic republic .
Islamic republic does not allow open and free elections in which the opposition parties can participate , but it supports revolutionary regimes .
They have had a high capacity in mobilizing their supporters .
They can bring their supporters to the street .
This funeral was definitely coordinated , but I think all the observers said that this was beyond just some funeral that government orchestrated .
Iranians genuinely came out to mourn Soleimani and show their support for the country .
But the regime is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for the regime ’ s legitimacy , which was in trouble because of the violent response to the protests .
The conversation has changed .
Now criticizing Iran ’ s foreign policy is much harder .
Revolutionary Guard has claimed and , I think , gained more prestige , especially from the attacks they did last night .
We hope , all of us hope , that the escalation ends .
Suleimani ’ s assassination was a major act of escalation .
Last night was escalation .
We were all very worried and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ go .
Iranians do not want to see another war .
I was born under Iran-Iraq War .
I still remember running away from missiles and going to shelters .
We know how destructive a war could be .
We have seen this once .
Iraqis have seen this once .
And it ’ s very unfortunate that this confrontation between Iran and the United States is happening in Iraq and Iraqis are paying the price for it .
But the more acts of escalation , the more militarization would embolden hard-liners in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ such as the Revolutionary Guards , to the center of the Iranian politics .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We turn now to Ali Kadivar, assistant professor of sociology and international studies at Boston College, grew up in Iran during the Iran-Iraq War, completed his undergraduate and first graduate degree at the University of Tehran, where he was active in the student movement.
Your response to the effects of what’s happening now, the U.S. assassination of the Iranian commander, of Soleimani, now the Iranian attacks, warning Iraq in advance, no U.S. or Iraqi troop casualties as a result of those attacks, and this all happening after these major anti-government protests both in Iraq and Iran, what this means for the people of Iran, Professor Kadivar?
ALI KADIVAR: I think the hit at General Soleimani was also a hit at Iran’s domestic politics, Iran’s domestic democratic politics. It can tell us a lot to go on the day before Soleimani was assassinated. So, you had this series of protests that happened in December. It was ignited by the hike in petroleum price, but it turned to protests and riots against the Islamic republic. It’s actually very natural to see attacks to banks and buildings when protests are against austerity or when the protests are spontaneous. There is sociological research and research in political science that documents this, in contrast to what the previous guest, Mr. Marandi, said.
And the Iranian regime’s response was brutal and very violent. Amnesty International says more than 200 people were killed. Other opposition website Kaleme has reported about 400 or 500 people have been killed. What is for sure is that hundreds of people were killed. And this was a big damage to the prestige of the Revolutionary Guards, that were involved in the repression of the protesters, and the Islamic republic in general. One day before Soleimani’s assassination, the commander of the Revolutionary Guards went to the city of Mashhad in the northwest of Iran. There was a bloody crackdown on protesters in this city. And they were trying to make up for the blood that was shed. They were going to give money to the families of the victims and console their pains. The whole regime was scrambling to explain why the regime had such a violent response.
A letter was signed on that day by 100 conservative figures. There have been many letters to Supreme Leader Khamenei or to other officials of the Islamic republic criticizing the political situation. But what is interesting, that this letter was signed by 100 conservative figures. And they warned Mr. Khamenei that with the current approaches that the government has been taking towards Iranian politics, Islamic republic is in its way of demise.
Now General Soleimani’s assassination completely changed the narrative in Iran. There is no conversation ongoing about the protests, no conversation ongoing about the violence that the government used in response to protesters. We see in various videos, it’s very clear, that the security forces opened fire on civilians that were unarmed. This is very visible in various videos that people uploaded to social media. But then you see someone like Mr. Marandi, who’s known to be a mouthpiece for the regime, comes out and says this was just a conspiracy of the foreigners. The narrative has changed.
General Soleimani was popular inside Iran because not much discussion can happen inside Iran criticizing Iran’s foreign policy and involvement in Iraq and Syria. Soleimani was mostly seen as a national figure, as a defender of Iran’s national security, as someone that fought with ISIS. So, killing of Soleimani was seen as an act of aggression on the entirety of Iran, not necessarily an act against the Islamic republic. And that’s why we see such a crowd coming out in Soleimani’s funeral. It really heightened the nationalist sentiments among Iranians. I don’t think all these people came out to show support for the regime. They came to show their support for Iran as a country.
But, of course, not all that crowd can speak for themselves, so when the crowd goes home, then Iranian officials will come out and claim legitimacy from this big crowd that has been out. This is not anything new in the history of Islamic republic. Islamic republic does not allow open and free elections in which the opposition parties can participate, but it supports revolutionary regimes. They have had a high capacity in mobilizing their supporters. They can bring their supporters to the street. This funeral was definitely coordinated, but I think all the observers said that this was beyond just some funeral that government orchestrated. Iranians genuinely came out to mourn Soleimani and show their support for the country. But the regime is going to claim this, claim this for the regime’s legitimacy, which was in trouble because of the violent response to the protests.
The conversation has changed. Now criticizing Iran’s foreign policy is much harder. Revolutionary Guard has claimed and, I think, gained more prestige, especially from the attacks they did last night.
We hope, all of us hope, that the escalation ends. Suleimani’s assassination was a major act of escalation. Last night was escalation. We were all very worried and concerned at where this is going to go. Iranians do not want to see another war. I was born under Iran-Iraq War. I still remember running away from missiles and going to shelters. We know how destructive a war could be. We have seen this once. Iraqis have seen this once. And it’s very unfortunate that this confrontation between Iran and the United States is happening in Iraq and Iraqis are paying the price for it. But the more acts of escalation, the more militarization would embolden hard-liners in Iran, would bring security forces, such as the Revolutionary Guards, to the center of the Iranian politics.
AMY GOODMAN: I want —
ALI KADIVAR: The Iranian regime — yeah.


democracynow--2020-01-08--Juan Cole: U.S.-Iran Conflict Enters Unprecedented Territory with Assassinations & Military Attacks

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
I ’ m Amy Goodman , as we continue to look at Iran ’ s attack on two Iraqi military bases that house U.S. and Iraqi troops , firing 22 missiles at the bases , no casualties reported .
Iran described the attack as “ revenge ” for the U.S. assassination of Iranian commander Qassem Soleimani at the Baghdad International Airport last week .
We go now to the University of Michigan , to professor Juan Cole @ @ @ @ @ @ @ blog , Informed Comment , is online at JuanCole.com , the author of many books , including Muhammad : Prophet of Peace Amid the Clash of Empires .
Your response to the Iranian attacks on the Iraqi bases that house U.S. and Iraqi troops , and then , of course , before that , the assassination of Soleimani ?
JUAN COLE : Well , both the assassination of General Soleimani and the Iranian response are unprecedented in the past 40 years of tension between the United States and Iran .
In fact , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in general .
I lived through the Cold War , and never do I remember the United States assassinating a Soviet general .
The two countries were involved in very serious proxy wars and great tensions , but it never went to the point where they would just murder each other ’ s high officials .
So , this is , I think , something that would only be done by an extremely erratic person such as Donald Trump .
This is not a normal piece of statecraft .
And that it would @ @ @ @ @ @ @ predictable .
The response that came , however , did surprise me , because Iran has not tended to act in a direct and open fashion against its enemies .
In recent years , it has tended to have a certain degree of deniability in anything that it did .
It still hasn ’ t been absolutely determined that Iran itself struck the Abqaiq refinery in Saudi Arabia in September .
There have been tanker attacks that , again , haven ’ t been directly tied to Iran , although Iran is under @ @ @ @ @ @ @ had expected that Iran would work through proxies and try to avoid having a direct fingerprint on this response .
That they fired missiles at bases where U.S. personnel were present , even though they appeared to have gone out of their way to avoid any casualties , either Iraqi or American , at least symbolically , takes this conflict between the two countries to a much higher level .
It ’ s spiraling .
It ’ s escalating in very worrisome ways .
AMY GOODMAN : What do you think will at @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Trump expected to address the nation .
JUAN COLE : The two countries at this point have several choices before them .
One would be to leave it at that .
There was an assassination , there was a response .
The two have been involved in a lot of covert actions against one another .
They could go back to doing that .
Or it could escalate .
President Trump could order missile strikes on facilities of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards , in which case I presume there would be an Iranian @ @ @ @ @ @ @ So , these are the two possibilities that are before us , either finding a way to turn to diplomacy and stand down or to escalate .
AMY GOODMAN : I wanted to turn to the U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper speaking Tuesday .
AMY GOODMAN : Juan Cole , your response to the U.S. secretary of defense ?
JUAN COLE : Well , I just find it very difficult to take this sort of discourse from the Trump administration seriously .
They killed one of the high-ranking generals of another country , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to avoid a war or that now is the time for de-escalation ?
I mean , what world do they live in ?
This is extremely erratic behavior .
And the fact that someone who ’ s relatively levelheaded like Mark Esper is going along with it is extremely alarming .
I think that the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff should simply have resigned rather than go forward with this attack on Soleimani , which was clearly illegal .
The prime minister of Iraq , who everybody in the U.S. press @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ignoring — this kind of Trump ’ s insistence on a white hierarchy has turned into a white hierarchy of knowledge , so if a brown person says something , it ’ s just not entered into the discourse .
Abdul-Mahdi made it very clear that he had invited General Soleimani to Iraq to be involved in negotiations between Iran and Saudi Arabia to reduce tensions .
Soleimani came on a commercial flight , where the manifest is clear .
He checked through Baghdad airport with a diplomatic passport .
And then Trump @ @ @ @ @ @ @ several other people , including a high-ranking Iraqi military official .
This is weird .
And , you know , one can only imagine that it ’ s possible that Trump and Esper and Pompeo and that gang didn ’ t want tensions between Saudi Arabia and Iran to be reduced , and that was the reason for the strike .
This cover story they gave up that Suleimani was coming to kill Americans is , you know , falling-down-laughing ridiculous .
So — AMY GOODMAN : And now they just refer to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ JUAN COLE : Now they — and you see major journalists and television anchors talking about him as a bad guy .
What kind of — this is not journalism ; this is just war propaganda .
AMY GOODMAN : Let me ask you what Garrett Graff , the journalist , tweeted yesterday .
He said , “ Reminder that as this crisis escalates , we have no Director of National Intelligence , no Dep Dir , no Homeland Security Secretary , no Dep Sec , no head of CBP or ICE , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Control , no Asst Sec for Europe , and no Navy Sec.
” JUAN COLE : The Trump administration is a hollow shell .
Six high Pentagon officials have recently resigned , partially because of Trump ’ s erratic behavior .
It ’ s extremely worrisome that a person with , it seems to me , clear personality deficits is the commander-in-chief of the United States and actually , you know , can launch nuclear weapons .
So , that he is engaging in this kind of escalation is extremely worrisome .
The @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not generally being told , although it sometimes comes out a bit , is that the United States has Iran under a financial blockade of unprecedented proportions .
Iran is being sanctioned to a degree that no country has ever been sanctioned in peacetime .
In essence , you know , if you drew up a naval blockade to prevent Iran from trading with other countries , that would be an act of war in international law .
The Trump administration has done this through financial means .
It ’ s gone to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ said , “ You may not deal with Iran .
You may not buy Iranian petroleum.
” So Iran ’ s petroleum receipts have plummeted .
That was 70 % of their income , from two-and-a-half million barrels a day to 500,000 barrels a day .
The country is being economically strangled .
And that is the reason for which we see all of this tension and violence .
Trump already has been at war with Iran for 19 months .
AMY GOODMAN : Can you respond to the contradictory messages from the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , the U.S. Command in Baghdad issued a memo to the Iraqi government appearing to suggest the U.S. would withdraw U.S. troops from the country , this after the Iraqi Parliament ’ s vote to expel U.S. military forces , but , hours later , Defense Secretary Mark Esper said the U.S. is not withdrawing troops from Iraq ?
JUAN COLE : Well , again , it ’ s just typical Trump administration dysfunction .
CENTCOM , the Central Command in the Middle East , knows very well that the United States troops @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Parliament voted .
It wasn ’ t an advisory vote .
The Parliament voted that the Iraqi government should take steps to expel U.S. troops .
And that resolution that Parliament passed was presented to them by the prime minister .
It was an act of the executive to have the vote .
So , the Trump administration is trying to depict it as a mere advisory vote .
It wasn ’ t .
It was a vote of Parliament , and the executive asked for the vote and will now — and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ takes the letter from the U.S. military at its face value , which was that the U.S. was preparing to leave .
The United States troops can ’ t be in Iraq if the Iraqi government doesn ’ t authorize their presence , because it would open them to lawsuits .
Every time they got involved in a firefight , if somebody was killed , those people could haul U.S. troops before an Iraqi judge .
They could be executed for murder .
So , the U.S. troops will have to leave .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ those bases were partly to encourage the Sunni Arabs and the Kurds , who are dragging their feet on this matter , to agree that the U.S. troops should leave , because they don ’ t want to be in the middle of a crossfire between Iran and the United States .
AMY GOODMAN : Well , Juan Cole , I want to thank you for being with us , a professor at University of Michigan , speaking to us from Ann Arbor .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman, as we continue to look at Iran’s attack on two Iraqi military bases that house U.S. and Iraqi troops, firing 22 missiles at the bases, no casualties reported. Iran described the attack as “revenge” for the U.S. assassination of Iranian commander Qassem Soleimani at the Baghdad International Airport last week.
We go now to the University of Michigan, to professor Juan Cole, who teaches history there. His blog, Informed Comment, is online at JuanCole.com, the author of many books, including Muhammad: Prophet of Peace Amid the Clash of Empires.
Your response to the Iranian attacks on the Iraqi bases that house U.S. and Iraqi troops, and then, of course, before that, the assassination of Soleimani?
JUAN COLE: Well, both the assassination of General Soleimani and the Iranian response are unprecedented in the past 40 years of tension between the United States and Iran. In fact, the assassination of General Soleimani is unprecedented in general. I lived through the Cold War, and never do I remember the United States assassinating a Soviet general. The two countries were involved in very serious proxy wars and great tensions, but it never went to the point where they would just murder each other’s high officials. So, this is, I think, something that would only be done by an extremely erratic person such as Donald Trump. This is not a normal piece of statecraft.
And that it would elicit an enormous response from Iran was predictable. The response that came, however, did surprise me, because Iran has not tended to act in a direct and open fashion against its enemies. In recent years, it has tended to have a certain degree of deniability in anything that it did. It still hasn’t been absolutely determined that Iran itself struck the Abqaiq refinery in Saudi Arabia in September. There have been tanker attacks that, again, haven’t been directly tied to Iran, although Iran is under suspicion for them. So, I had expected that Iran would work through proxies and try to avoid having a direct fingerprint on this response. That they fired missiles at bases where U.S. personnel were present, even though they appeared to have gone out of their way to avoid any casualties, either Iraqi or American, at least symbolically, takes this conflict between the two countries to a much higher level. It’s spiraling. It’s escalating in very worrisome ways.
AMY GOODMAN: What do you think will at this point happen? Today, President Trump expected to address the nation.
JUAN COLE: The two countries at this point have several choices before them. One would be to leave it at that. There was an assassination, there was a response. The two have been involved in a lot of covert actions against one another. They could go back to doing that. Or it could escalate. President Trump could order missile strikes on facilities of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, in which case I presume there would be an Iranian response to that, as well. So, these are the two possibilities that are before us, either finding a way to turn to diplomacy and stand down or to escalate.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to turn to the U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper speaking Tuesday.
DEFENSE SECRETARY MARK ESPER: As we defend our people and interests, let me reiterate that the United States is not seeking a war with Iran, but we are prepared to finish one. We are seeking a diplomatic solution. But first this will require Iran to de-escalate. It will require the regime to come to the table with the goal of preventing further bloodshed. And it will require them to cease their malign activities throughout the region. As I’ve said, we are open to having this discussion with them, but we are just as prepared to deliver a forceful response to defend our interests.
AMY GOODMAN: Juan Cole, your response to the U.S. secretary of defense?
JUAN COLE: Well, I just find it very difficult to take this sort of discourse from the Trump administration seriously. They killed one of the high-ranking generals of another country, and then they said they did that to avoid a war or that now is the time for de-escalation? I mean, what world do they live in? This is extremely erratic behavior.
And the fact that someone who’s relatively levelheaded like Mark Esper is going along with it is extremely alarming. I think that the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff should simply have resigned rather than go forward with this attack on Soleimani, which was clearly illegal.
The prime minister of Iraq, who everybody in the U.S. press and among the political class is completely ignoring — this kind of Trump’s insistence on a white hierarchy has turned into a white hierarchy of knowledge, so if a brown person says something, it’s just not entered into the discourse. Abdul-Mahdi made it very clear that he had invited General Soleimani to Iraq to be involved in negotiations between Iran and Saudi Arabia to reduce tensions. Soleimani came on a commercial flight, where the manifest is clear. He checked through Baghdad airport with a diplomatic passport. And then Trump just blew him away, along with several other people, including a high-ranking Iraqi military official.
This is weird. And, you know, one can only imagine that it’s possible that Trump and Esper and Pompeo and that gang didn’t want tensions between Saudi Arabia and Iran to be reduced, and that was the reason for the strike. This cover story they gave up that Suleimani was coming to kill Americans is, you know, falling-down-laughing ridiculous. So —
AMY GOODMAN: And now they just refer to him as a “bad guy.”
JUAN COLE: Now they — and you see major journalists and television anchors talking about him as a bad guy. What kind of — this is not journalism; this is just war propaganda.
AMY GOODMAN: Let me ask you what Garrett Graff, the journalist, tweeted yesterday. He said, “Reminder that as this crisis escalates, we have no Director of National Intelligence, no Dep Dir, no Homeland Security Secretary, no Dep Sec, no head of CBP or ICE, no State Dept Under Sec of Arms Control, no Asst Sec for Europe, and no Navy Sec.”
JUAN COLE: The Trump administration is a hollow shell. Six high Pentagon officials have recently resigned, partially because of Trump’s erratic behavior. It’s extremely worrisome that a person with, it seems to me, clear personality deficits is the commander-in-chief of the United States and actually, you know, can launch nuclear weapons. So, that he is engaging in this kind of escalation is extremely worrisome.
The other thing that the American public is not generally being told, although it sometimes comes out a bit, is that the United States has Iran under a financial blockade of unprecedented proportions. Iran is being sanctioned to a degree that no country has ever been sanctioned in peacetime. In essence, you know, if you drew up a naval blockade to prevent Iran from trading with other countries, that would be an act of war in international law. The Trump administration has done this through financial means. It’s gone to Japan, South Korea, India, said, “You may not deal with Iran. You may not buy Iranian petroleum.” So Iran’s petroleum receipts have plummeted. That was 70% of their income, from two-and-a-half million barrels a day to 500,000 barrels a day. The country is being economically strangled. And that is the reason for which we see all of this tension and violence. Trump already has been at war with Iran for 19 months.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you respond to the contradictory messages from the Pentagon and the White House? Monday, the U.S. Command in Baghdad issued a memo to the Iraqi government appearing to suggest the U.S. would withdraw U.S. troops from the country, this after the Iraqi Parliament’s vote to expel U.S. military forces, but, hours later, Defense Secretary Mark Esper said the U.S. is not withdrawing troops from Iraq?
JUAN COLE: Well, again, it’s just typical Trump administration dysfunction. CENTCOM, the Central Command in the Middle East, knows very well that the United States troops have to leave Iraq now. The Parliament voted. It wasn’t an advisory vote. The Parliament voted that the Iraqi government should take steps to expel U.S. troops. And that resolution that Parliament passed was presented to them by the prime minister. It was an act of the executive to have the vote. So, the Trump administration is trying to depict it as a mere advisory vote. It wasn’t. It was a vote of Parliament, and the executive asked for the vote and will now — and Prime Minister Abdul-Mahdi has said that he takes the letter from the U.S. military at its face value, which was that the U.S. was preparing to leave.
The United States troops can’t be in Iraq if the Iraqi government doesn’t authorize their presence, because it would open them to lawsuits. Every time they got involved in a firefight, if somebody was killed, those people could haul U.S. troops before an Iraqi judge. They could be executed for murder. So, the U.S. troops will have to leave. And I think the Iranian strikes on those bases were partly to encourage the Sunni Arabs and the Kurds, who are dragging their feet on this matter, to agree that the U.S. troops should leave, because they don’t want to be in the middle of a crossfire between Iran and the United States.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Juan Cole, I want to thank you for being with us, a professor at University of Michigan, speaking to us from Ann Arbor.


democracynow--2020-01-08--A View from Tehran: Iranian Professor Condemns U.S. Aggression & Warns U.S.-Backed Gulf States

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : Iranian forces fired 22 ballistic missiles at U.S. forces in Iraq early Wednesday in what Iran described as “ fierce revenge ” for the U.S. assassination of Iranian commander Qassem Soleimani , who was killed in a U.S. drone strike last Friday at Baghdad airport .
The missiles , which were launched from Iran , struck the Ayn al-Asad base in Anbar province and a base in Erbil .
There were no initial reports of U.S. or Iraqi casualties , and Iran @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Shortly after the attacks , Iran ’ s Foreign Minister Javad Zarif tweeted , quote , “ Iran took & concluded proportionate measures in self-defense under Article 51 of UN Charter targeting base from which cowardly armed attack against our citizens & senior officials were launched .
We do not seek escalation or war , but will defend ourselves against any aggression , ” he said .
Earlier today , Iran ’ s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei called the missile strike a “ slap in the face ” of the Americans and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Middle East .
AMY GOODMAN : After the missile strikes , President Trump tweeted , quote , “ All is well !
Missiles launched from Iran at two military bases located in Iraq .
Assessment of casualties & damages taking place now .
So far , so good !
We have the most powerful and well equipped military anywhere in the world , by far !
I will be making a statement tomorrow morning , ” he said .
That ’ s today .
The Iranian missile strike comes just days after the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ military forces from Iraq , after the U.S. assassinated the Iranian commander .
We begin today ’ s show in Tehran , Iran , where we ’ re joined by Mohammad Marandi .
He ’ s a professor of English literature and Orientalism at the University of Tehran , part of the nuclear deal negotiations in 2015 .
So , first , Professor Marandi , if you can respond to what took place last night , early this morning , with Iran attacking two Iraqi bases that housed U.S. and Iraqi troops , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ one ?
MOHAMMAD MARANDI : Well , I think the most important message that the Iranians were sending to the United States was that we can fire missiles at your bases , and you can not intercept any of them .
This was the most important American military base in Iraq .
All of Iranian — all of the Iranian missiles went through the American defense shield , which surrounds all military bases , especially an air base , and they reached their targets .
So I think that is an important message @ @ @ @ @ @ @ American bases in the Persian Gulf region are vulnerable , and all those countries , perhaps more importantly , that are hosting American bases are vulnerable to Iranian missiles , and there is no force that can bring them down .
AMY GOODMAN : Were you surprised by this attack ?
And how do you respond to the foreign minister , Javad Zarif , saying , “ We do not seek escalation or war , but will defend ourselves against any aggression ” ?
MOHAMMAD MARANDI : No , I wasn ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ expecting an attack at some point during this period .
What perhaps surprised me was the fact that the Americans were unable to intercept any of the missiles .
I think , at this stage , from what we ’ ve been hearing from the foreign minister and others , is that Iran does not plan more military strikes .
They have caused significant damage to the base .
It is possible that the Iranians did not want to have any casualties .
We don ’ t know exactly what happened .
We @ @ @ @ @ @ @ hours .
But what is clear is that the missiles reached their targets and that the Iranians informed the Iraqis before the attack in order to prevent any aircraft or civilian aircraft that may be flying in the region to be in danger .
MOHAMMAD MARANDI : And they could have told the Iraqis to inform the Americans .
I ’ m not privy to that sort of information , so it ’ s all speculation for me .
AMY GOODMAN : You tweeted , “ Everyone should immediately leave the UAE , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ counties where US bases are seen as a threat to Iran .
If the Trump regime makes a foolish move , these regimes will be held responsible , considered hostile entities , attacked with full force , and destroyed.
” Explain .
MOHAMMAD MARANDI : Well , if the regimes in the United Arab Emirates , for example , and Bahrain and Saudi Arabia allow the United States to use bases to attack Iran , then they will be hostile entities , and Iran will strike back and bring down the regimes .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
In war , that ’ s what happens .
So , what the Iranians are — and ordinary people should leave the region as soon as possible , because we have no idea what Trump is going to do .
He ’ s the sort of person that you have to see what he tweets in the morning when he wakes up .
So , people who live in the Persian Gulf region , if they can leave , they should leave , until it becomes clear if the United States wants @ @ @ @ @ @ @ think it ’ s quite obvious that if any of these countries cooperate with the United States in attacking Iran , they will be considered an enemy of Iran .
They are very small .
They are very vulnerable .
They ’ re family dictatorships .
They only form a — like in the case of the United Arab Emirates , the Emirati population is only a fragment of the total population of the country , which is not very large , either .
So , it would not last long .
It @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , the regime in the United Arab Emirates .
AMY GOODMAN : Professor Marandi , you were involved in the nuclear deal negotiations that led to the Iranian nuclear deal , the multiparty Iranian nuclear deal , that Trump pulled out of .
Can you talk about how that relates to what ’ s happening today ?
And if there are negotiations going on behind the scenes , the U.S. pulling out of that led to almost all closed channel of negotiation with Iran .
So , who is the U.S. voice there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is it the Swiss ambassador ?
We heard the Japanese Prime Minister Abe is involved .
What is happening ?
MOHAMMAD MARANDI : Well , there are no private negotiations taking place between Iran and the United States .
The United States sometimes sends messages through different channels , as you pointed out .
But the Iranians are unwilling to negotiate , because they say that we ’ ve already negotiated a nuclear deal .
The Americans tore that deal .
And until they abide by those commitments that they made in the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ about , because if Iran was to accept negotiating with the Americans again , basically the Iranians would be saying that the Americans can tear up their deals and renegotiate .
And that ’ s just not possible , because the Americans — the American government would become more demanding .
Every time they don ’ t get what they want , they ’ ll impose new sanctions , and they ’ ll tear up the deal , or whatever deal they sign .
So the Iranians are saying , “ If you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , you have to abide by the commitments that were made during previous negotiations , and then we can go on from there ; otherwise , we can not negotiate with a government that tears apart agreements and carries out economic warfare.
” AMY GOODMAN : And what is the response at your university , the University of Tehran , where you are now , and around Iran to the assassination of Qassem Soleimani ?
MOHAMMAD MARANDI : Well , one of the major problems that I have with the media in the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is that there ’ s always this tendency to call Iran a regime , which sort of implies it ’ s illegitimate and not stable , and to claim that it is unpopular , it is evil , it is corrupt and that it is falling apart .
And I ’ ve been hearing this since I ’ ve been a teenager .
The fact that it exists and it has existed for decades , I think , should have by now made it clear to many in the West that this is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , with checks and balances , and which has a high degree of legitimacy among the public , whether people in the West like it or not .
But the funeral that — or , the funerals that we saw , I think , shows the degree to which the Islamic Republic of Iran is legitimate in the eyes of the public , because the numbers were extraordinary .
In Tehran alone , between 5 to 7 million people participated in the funeral .
It ’ s just unheard of .
And even @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Iraqis hate Iran , the Iraqis hate the Popular Mobilization Force , the force that actually defeated ISIS .
But when the American government murdered the Iranian general , as well as the Iraqi general , the deputy head of the Popular Mobilization Force , we saw the huge funerals in Iraq , where in each city hundreds of thousands of Iraqis , as the funeral passed through those cities , they carried the Iranian commander on their shoulders with the Iranian flag .
So , I think a lot of what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a lot of what we read in the United States and a lot of what we watch on television in the United States is wishful thinking by the — that come from the corridors of power .
And because they misread Iran and they present a picture of Iran which they would like to believe , they constantly miscalculate based upon those impressions that are not based on reality .
AMY GOODMAN : Very quickly , Professor Marandi , the protests against the Iranian regime that happened before — and there were protests @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in Iraq against the Iraqi government — now there are going to be protests called for January 10th in Iraq against both Iranian and U.S. influence in Iraq .
And what has the assassination of Soleimani meant for the anti-government protesters in Iran ?
It looks like it has brought together people across the political spectrum and led to an ascendancy of the far right in Iran .
MOHAMMAD MARANDI : Well , I don ’ t understand why you use the term “ regime ” for Iran .
Do you use it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Australia ?
Is it just for Iran ?
And I don ’ t know what the “ far right ” means , because our politics are very different from politics in your country .
So , in Iran , politics are very fragmented .
We have different political parties .
If you mean those who are more opposed to U.S. policies in this region , I think actually what Trump has done is he ’ s created a consensus among the political parties and the overwhelming majority of Iranians that the United States @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And protesters against the government are protesters against the government .
We have to make a distinction .
The protests that were made against the government were against the fuel hike that the government implemented , very poorly managed , and those ended on day one with no arrests and no deaths .
Subsequent to that , we had the riots .
Those riots were egged on by Persian-language media channels funded by Western governments , and many of them were violent and coordinated from outside the country , such as the MEK @ @ @ @ @ @ @ hundreds of banks within two days .
They burned over a hundred gas stations .
They attacked refineries .
They attacked storage sites for grain .
These are not ordinary riots that we had in Iran .
So , again , whether you like Iran or not — AMY GOODMAN : How many people do you — how many people do you think were killed in those protests ?
MOHAMMAD MARANDI : I don ’ t know the numbers .
But the point that I ’ m making is that if Iran , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with the Constitution that currently exists , was unpopular , you would not have seen the scenes in Tehran and in the other cities that you saw .
I think it ’ s time for Western countries to accept the fact that the people of Iran have their own state and they make their own decisions , and it ’ s not for the United States or the Europeans to determine how Iranians conduct themselves and how the Iranians decide to implement policy and what laws are passed in this land .
It @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and the Europeans to take care of their own affairs .
They have enough trouble among themselves and in their own countries right now as it is .
AMY GOODMAN : Let me ask you just on that issue of the protesters killed , the U.S. 's special representative for Iran , Brian Hook , said more than a thousand Iranian citizens may have been killed in that uprising , what you called the riots .
Do you think that 's possible , Professor Marandi ?
MOHAMMAD MARANDI : No , that ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ all the numbers made up by the United States are fabrications .
We don ’ t take anything that the Americans , the American government — take seriously , just like the American government claimed that General Suleimani went to Iraq to carry out attacks on Iranian — on the Americans .
We know now from the Iraqi prime minister that he went there to see the Iraqi prime minister and to discuss a letter from Saudi Arabia , because the Iraqi prime minister was trying to mediate between the two countries .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ Parliament that Trump knew about this and that Trump gave — supported this .
But then the Americans went and murdered this general .
If this general was not popular , if the Islamic Republic of Iran did not have a high degree of legitimacy , again , I repeat , you would not have seen such crowds .
And Iran is an educated society .
So , you can not — one can not say that they ’ re stupid , that they ’ re backward , that they ’ re fools @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that the narratives on Iran , whether it ’ s about riots , whether it ’ s about oppression , those narratives in the West are not completely accurate .
AMY GOODMAN : Mohammad Marandi , I want to thank you for being with us , professor of English literature and Orientalism at the University of Tehran .
He was part of the nuclear deal negotiations in 2015 , speaking to us from Tehran , Iran .
This is Democracy Now !
When we come back — well , later in the broadcast @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Juan to talk about the earthquake in Puerto Rico .
But first we ’ ll go to Juan Cole at the University of Michigan .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Iranian forces fired 22 ballistic missiles at U.S. forces in Iraq early Wednesday in what Iran described as “fierce revenge” for the U.S. assassination of Iranian commander Qassem Soleimani, who was killed in a U.S. drone strike last Friday at Baghdad airport. The missiles, which were launched from Iran, struck the Ayn al-Asad base in Anbar province and a base in Erbil. There were no initial reports of U.S. or Iraqi casualties, and Iran warned the Iraqi government before the attack.
Shortly after the attacks, Iran’s Foreign Minister Javad Zarif tweeted, quote, “Iran took & concluded proportionate measures in self-defense under Article 51 of UN Charter targeting base from which cowardly armed attack against our citizens & senior officials were launched. We do not seek escalation or war, but will defend ourselves against any aggression,” he said.
Earlier today, Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei called the missile strike a “slap in the face” of the Americans and called for U.S. troops to leave the Middle East.
AYATOLLAH ALI KHAMENEI: [translated] They were struck with such a slap last night. That’s another matter. … Military action like this is not sufficient. What is important is ending the corrupting presence of America in the region.
AMY GOODMAN: After the missile strikes, President Trump tweeted, quote, “All is well! Missiles launched from Iran at two military bases located in Iraq. Assessment of casualties & damages taking place now. So far, so good! We have the most powerful and well equipped military anywhere in the world, by far! I will be making a statement tomorrow morning,” he said. That’s today.
The Iranian missile strike comes just days after the Iraqi Parliament voted to expel all U.S. military forces from Iraq, after the U.S. assassinated the Iranian commander.
We begin today’s show in Tehran, Iran, where we’re joined by Mohammad Marandi. He’s a professor of English literature and Orientalism at the University of Tehran, part of the nuclear deal negotiations in 2015.
So, first, Professor Marandi, if you can respond to what took place last night, early this morning, with Iran attacking two Iraqi bases that housed U.S. and Iraqi troops, warning Iraq in advance and killing no one?
MOHAMMAD MARANDI: Well, I think the most important message that the Iranians were sending to the United States was that we can fire missiles at your bases, and you cannot intercept any of them. This was the most important American military base in Iraq. All of Iranian — all of the Iranian missiles went through the American defense shield, which surrounds all military bases, especially an air base, and they reached their targets. So I think that is an important message, because it means basically that all American bases in the Persian Gulf region are vulnerable, and all those countries, perhaps more importantly, that are hosting American bases are vulnerable to Iranian missiles, and there is no force that can bring them down.
AMY GOODMAN: Were you surprised by this attack? And how do you respond to the foreign minister, Javad Zarif, saying, “We do not seek escalation or war, but will defend ourselves against any aggression”?
MOHAMMAD MARANDI: No, I wasn’t surprised. I think most people were expecting an attack at some point during this period. What perhaps surprised me was the fact that the Americans were unable to intercept any of the missiles.
I think, at this stage, from what we’ve been hearing from the foreign minister and others, is that Iran does not plan more military strikes. They have caused significant damage to the base. It is possible that the Iranians did not want to have any casualties. We don’t know exactly what happened. We’ll find out in the coming hours. But what is clear is that the missiles reached their targets and that the Iranians informed the Iraqis before the attack in order to prevent any aircraft or civilian aircraft that may be flying in the region to be in danger.
AMY GOODMAN: Professor Marandi —
MOHAMMAD MARANDI: And they could have told the Iraqis to inform the Americans. I’m not privy to that sort of information, so it’s all speculation for me.
AMY GOODMAN: You tweeted, “Everyone should immediately leave the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and other counties where US bases are seen as a threat to Iran. If the Trump regime makes a foolish move, these regimes will be held responsible, considered hostile entities, attacked with full force, and destroyed.” Explain.
MOHAMMAD MARANDI: Well, if the regimes in the United Arab Emirates, for example, and Bahrain and Saudi Arabia allow the United States to use bases to attack Iran, then they will be hostile entities, and Iran will strike back and bring down the regimes. I think it’s quite clear. In war, that’s what happens.
So, what the Iranians are — and ordinary people should leave the region as soon as possible, because we have no idea what Trump is going to do. He’s the sort of person that you have to see what he tweets in the morning when he wakes up. So, people who live in the Persian Gulf region, if they can leave, they should leave, until it becomes clear if the United States wants to escalate or not.
But I think it’s quite obvious that if any of these countries cooperate with the United States in attacking Iran, they will be considered an enemy of Iran. They are very small. They are very vulnerable. They’re family dictatorships. They only form a — like in the case of the United Arab Emirates, the Emirati population is only a fragment of the total population of the country, which is not very large, either. So, it would not last long. It would probably last a couple of days, the regime in the United Arab Emirates.
AMY GOODMAN: Professor Marandi, you were involved in the nuclear deal negotiations that led to the Iranian nuclear deal, the multiparty Iranian nuclear deal, that Trump pulled out of. Can you talk about how that relates to what’s happening today? And if there are negotiations going on behind the scenes, the U.S. pulling out of that led to almost all closed channel of negotiation with Iran. So, who is the U.S. voice there negotiating with Iran? I mean, is it the Swiss ambassador? We heard the Japanese Prime Minister Abe is involved. What is happening?
MOHAMMAD MARANDI: Well, there are no private negotiations taking place between Iran and the United States. The United States sometimes sends messages through different channels, as you pointed out. But the Iranians are unwilling to negotiate, because they say that we’ve already negotiated a nuclear deal. The Americans tore that deal. And until they abide by those commitments that they made in the deal, we have nothing to talk about, because if Iran was to accept negotiating with the Americans again, basically the Iranians would be saying that the Americans can tear up their deals and renegotiate. And that’s just not possible, because the Americans — the American government would become more demanding. Every time they don’t get what they want, they’ll impose new sanctions, and they’ll tear up the deal, or whatever deal they sign. So the Iranians are saying, “If you want to have any negotiations with us, you have to abide by the commitments that were made during previous negotiations, and then we can go on from there; otherwise, we cannot negotiate with a government that tears apart agreements and carries out economic warfare.”
AMY GOODMAN: And what is the response at your university, the University of Tehran, where you are now, and around Iran to the assassination of Qassem Soleimani?
MOHAMMAD MARANDI: Well, one of the major problems that I have with the media in the United States and in much of Europe is that there’s always this tendency to call Iran a regime, which sort of implies it’s illegitimate and not stable, and to claim that it is unpopular, it is evil, it is corrupt and that it is falling apart. And I’ve been hearing this since I’ve been a teenager.
The fact that it exists and it has existed for decades, I think, should have by now made it clear to many in the West that this is a legitimate government, with a Constitution, with checks and balances, and which has a high degree of legitimacy among the public, whether people in the West like it or not.
But the funeral that — or, the funerals that we saw, I think, shows the degree to which the Islamic Republic of Iran is legitimate in the eyes of the public, because the numbers were extraordinary. In Tehran alone, between 5 to 7 million people participated in the funeral. It’s just unheard of.
And even in Iraq, we constantly hear that the Iraqis hate Iran, the Iraqis hate the Popular Mobilization Force, the force that actually defeated ISIS. But when the American government murdered the Iranian general, as well as the Iraqi general, the deputy head of the Popular Mobilization Force, we saw the huge funerals in Iraq, where in each city hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, as the funeral passed through those cities, they carried the Iranian commander on their shoulders with the Iranian flag.
So, I think a lot of what we hear in the United States and a lot of what we read in the United States and a lot of what we watch on television in the United States is wishful thinking by the — that come from the corridors of power. And because they misread Iran and they present a picture of Iran which they would like to believe, they constantly miscalculate based upon those impressions that are not based on reality.
AMY GOODMAN: Very quickly, Professor Marandi, the protests against the Iranian regime that happened before — and there were protests, of course, long protests, in Iraq against the Iraqi government — now there are going to be protests called for January 10th in Iraq against both Iranian and U.S. influence in Iraq. And what has the assassination of Soleimani meant for the anti-government protesters in Iran? It looks like it has brought together people across the political spectrum and led to an ascendancy of the far right in Iran.
MOHAMMAD MARANDI: Well, I don’t understand why you use the term “regime” for Iran. Do you use it for France or Britain or Canada or Australia? Is it just for Iran?
And I don’t know what the “far right” means, because our politics are very different from politics in your country. So, in Iran, politics are very fragmented. We have different political parties. If you mean those who are more opposed to U.S. policies in this region, I think actually what Trump has done is he’s created a consensus among the political parties and the overwhelming majority of Iranians that the United States government cannot be negotiated with.
And protesters against the government are protesters against the government. We have to make a distinction. The protests that were made against the government were against the fuel hike that the government implemented, very poorly managed, and those ended on day one with no arrests and no deaths.
Subsequent to that, we had the riots. Those riots were egged on by Persian-language media channels funded by Western governments, and many of them were violent and coordinated from outside the country, such as the MEK terrorist organization. They attacked banks, hundreds of banks within two days. They burned over a hundred gas stations. They attacked refineries. They attacked storage sites for grain. These are not ordinary riots that we had in Iran. So, again, whether you like Iran or not —
AMY GOODMAN: How many people do you — how many people do you think were killed in those protests?
MOHAMMAD MARANDI: I don’t know the numbers. But the point that I’m making is that if Iran, if the Islamic Republic of Iran, with the Constitution that currently exists, was unpopular, you would not have seen the scenes in Tehran and in the other cities that you saw. I think it’s time for Western countries to accept the fact that the people of Iran have their own state and they make their own decisions, and it’s not for the United States or the Europeans to determine how Iranians conduct themselves and how the Iranians decide to implement policy and what laws are passed in this land. It’s best for the United States and the Europeans to take care of their own affairs. They have enough trouble among themselves and in their own countries right now as it is.
AMY GOODMAN: Let me ask you just on that issue of the protesters killed, the U.S.'s special representative for Iran, Brian Hook, said more than a thousand Iranian citizens may have been killed in that uprising, what you called the riots. Do you think that's possible, Professor Marandi?
MOHAMMAD MARANDI: No, that’s completely nonsense. Those are — all the numbers made up by the United States are fabrications. We don’t take anything that the Americans, the American government — take seriously, just like the American government claimed that General Suleimani went to Iraq to carry out attacks on Iranian — on the Americans. We know now from the Iraqi prime minister that he went there to see the Iraqi prime minister and to discuss a letter from Saudi Arabia, because the Iraqi prime minister was trying to mediate between the two countries. And the Iraqi prime minister said in Parliament that Trump knew about this and that Trump gave — supported this. But then the Americans went and murdered this general.
If this general was not popular, if the Islamic Republic of Iran did not have a high degree of legitimacy, again, I repeat, you would not have seen such crowds. And Iran is an educated society. So, you cannot — one cannot say that they’re stupid, that they’re backward, that they’re fools. No, I think it shows that the narratives on Iran, whether it’s about riots, whether it’s about oppression, those narratives in the West are not completely accurate.
AMY GOODMAN: Mohammad Marandi, I want to thank you for being with us, professor of English literature and Orientalism at the University of Tehran. He was part of the nuclear deal negotiations in 2015, speaking to us from Tehran, Iran.
This is Democracy Now! When we come back — well, later in the broadcast, we’re going to San Juan to talk about the earthquake in Puerto Rico. But first we’ll go to Juan Cole at the University of Michigan. Stay with us.