democracynow--2020-11-11--Juan González: Mainstream Media Has Missed the Real Story About Latinx Voter Turnout

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : President-elect Joe Biden ’ s lead in the popular vote has jumped to over 5 million as President Trump continues to refuse to concede .
About 160 million voters cast ballots .
This is a new record .
Much of the increased turnout was powered by people of color , while the total number of votes cast by white Americans barely increased from the last presidential election .
Well , Juan , your analysis has been absolutely critical .
That ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Juan González has been closely looking at how the historic turnout in the Latinx community has impacted the race .
Lay it out for us .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : Well , Amy , the cascade of stories continues , claiming a surprising turn by Latino voters toward Donald Trump .
The New York Times this week , front page , quote , “ How Democrats Missed Trump ’ s Appeal to Latino Voters.
” Then , the L.A. Times , “ Latino voters tired of being taken for granted by baffled Democrats.
” @ @ @ @ @ @ @ no such thing as a Latino bloc .
And even The Intercept saying in one of their stories that “ Nonwhite Voters Are Not Immune to Right-Wing Populism.
” Well , I said last week , and I ’ ll repeat it again , the key narrative of this election is not whether there was a small shift in the percentage of Latinx voters in some areas of the country turning toward Trump .
The main story is that in an election which saw historic turnout , people of color — and especially @ @ @ @ @ @ @ voting .
And they , not white voters , represented the bulk of that increase .
Virtually none of the reports have mentioned this , that for the first time in U.S. history Latinos ’ turnout appears to have reached comparable levels to the rates for white and Black Americans .
Twenty-point-six million Latinos went to the polls in this election .
That ’ s 64 % of the 32 million eligible Latinx voters , while in previous election cycles the turnout had been routinely below 50 % .
In raw numbers , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ than in 2016 .
That ’ s a 63 % increase over the last presidential elections .
Now , I ’ ve updated and tweaked the chart from last week , and it shows that the biggest increase in both percentages and actual votes from four years ago came from Latino voters .
Their jump in number of ballots cast nearly equaled that among white — the increase among white and Black voters combined .
The next biggest jump , in percentage term , came among African American voters , who increased by @ @ @ @ @ @ @ % , while white voters increased by just under 6 % .
Now , some of these numbers , I should note , are different from what I displayed last week , in part because there ’ s been some little-noticed changes to the Edison national exit poll in the past few days compared to what was released on Election Day by all the networks .
For instance , the original version estimated that whites were 65 % of the electorate , while the latest figures say that they were 67 % .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ African Americans and Asians .
Well , the Edison poll has always been flawed , and numerous analyses have shown its past samples were skewed to oversampling Cuban Americans , undersampling both Black and Latino inner-city polling sites , and also undersampling voters whose primary language is not English , all of which means it tends to undercount Latino voters for Democrats .
But the basic contours of the sampling remains the same , and it ’ s inescapable .
After decades of political experts talking about the growing Latino vote , this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ felt compelled like never before to go to the polls , because COVID-19 fell them more than other groups , because of the constant demonization of Latinos by the president , because of the barbaric family separation policies , or because of the threats to healthcare , even , for some conservative Latinos , because of their hopes of finally turning back Roe v. Wade .
One thing is sure : Neither the Democratic nor Republican parties will underestimate or ignore Latino voters from now on .
This should be cause for widespread @ @ @ @ @ @ @ vote .
But what about those who claim that Trump made major , unexpected inroads among Latino voters nationwide , as reflected by 66-to-32 % split of the Latino vote between Biden and Trump ?
Some say that Latinos could be deserting the Democratic Party .
Those of us who ’ ve been around the block a few times have heard this narrative before .
In reality , these results are in the general ballpark of previous presidential campaigns .
I want to put up , hopefully , a chart here of how @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 30 years in presidential elections .
The Republican share of voters has varied , from a low of 27 % , when Mitt Romney ran against Barack Obama in 2012 , to a high of 44 % , that George Bush got in his second presidential run in 2004 .
Even John McCain , when he ran against Obama in 2008 , got a similar percentage of the Latino vote as Trump did this year .
And the high point , the Bush victory in 2004 , we should note , is the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ majority of the popular vote .
But the big difference now is that the Latinx vote is so much larger .
When you get two-thirds of a vote , that has tripled in size in just a few years , you begin to achieve critical mass .
No wonder Lindsey Graham is warning that if these elections aren ’ t changed somehow , Republicans will never win the White House again .
What about those places like the Rio Grande Valley of Texas and South Florida , where Trump made real inroads in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
What about those pundits who claim Latinos are so diverse and diffuse as a population that it is erroneous to consider them a single community ?
First , on South [ Florida ] and the Rio Grande Valley , yes , actual vote results show that Trump had significant increases in his support there .
Florida is not surprising , given the influx of conservative refugees from Nicaragua and Venezuela in recent years , but the Rio Grande Valley is .
In Hidalgo County , along the border , which is 90 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ % against Hillary Clinton to 40 % against Joe Biden .
In Maverick County , which is 95 % Latino , he went from 20 % against Clinton to 45 % against Biden .
Those are significant numbers .
The Valley , however , has changed rapidly during the Trump era .
Always a socially conservative rural area , it has seen enormous job growth in recent years as a result of the militarization of the border , which brought thousands of new jobs to the area for Border Patrol officers , for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with Mexico , for immigration detention centers .
In addition , the Valley has replaced the San Diego sector as the epicenter of undocumented migrant crossings and the failed immigration system of the United States .
All of that , no doubt , helped turn its residents for Trump .
But in the big cities of Texas , where most Latinos live , there ’ s another story .
San Antonio ’ s Bexar County , for example , 60 % Latino , saw Biden ’ s margin of votes climb , from @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ ll need better figures on how much of that was in the Latino community .
It seems clear , however , that Latino turnout in states like Nevada , Arizona and Pennsylvania helped Biden win those key battleground states .
And then there ’ s California and New York .
The Latino share of the vote that went to Biden appears to be breathtaking in those states : 77 % in California , 72 % in New York .
Now , some argue that those are reliable blue states anyway , so @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Really ?
Aren ’ t those enormous Latino margins year after year what has made those states reliably blue ?
And the same for New Jersey , Connecticut , Massachusetts and , lately , Colorado .
Then there are these nonsensical questions as to whether a Latino community actually exists .
Let ’ s be clear : Latinx identity in the United States is a social construct , created both by the dominant society , that needed to define and categorize and other — other — and by the marginalized group itself @ @ @ @ @ @ @ by disparate Latin American migrant groups who were forced to unite in order to survive in a hostile society and whose children gradually intermarried to create a new social construct : the Latino in America .
More than 20 years ago , I said in my book Harvest of Empire that Latinos had become — were becoming a new third force in American politics .
They largely vote Democratic , but a significant portion is susceptible to Republican candidates if those political leaders address even a few of their concerns .
Since then @ @ @ @ @ @ @ backgrounds have migrated to this country in growing numbers , and a good portion have adopted typical American conservative views .
Some of that community , though still a minority , have been drawn to right-wing populism , to national chauvinism , and even to racist views .
All of this fixation on Latinos , however , ignores the fundamental question of this election , which very few political observers I ’ ve seen have dared to tackle : Why the heck did 58 % of white Americans vote for Donald Trump , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ With the United States consolidating itself as the world ’ s most powerful imperialist nation and the economic gap in the country widening , right-wing movements have only grown at home , and the defeat of Trump will not halt their growth .
The key to building a progressive majority is to keep mobilizing more young Latinos to vote , burying the small percentage increases in support for right-wing candidates under an avalanche from people of color , organized labor and their allies .
And that ’ s my take on this election @ @ @ @ @ @ @ González , a just amazing deep dive into the numbers , so critical to understand this at this point , because , so early on , this is what shapes the narrative .
And , you know , on Tuesday , the leading journalist Maria Hinojosa tweeted , quote , “ I ’ m listening to The Daily on what went wrong w the polls.
” She ’ s referring to The New York Times ’ Daily podcast .
“ And , ” she goes on , “ just wow .
With the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ trump right in front of us , the FIRST thing they do is talk abt Latino voters .
It sounds like WE ARE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE for all of this !
Two white guys on us.
” Maria Hinojosa continued , “ So Nate Cohen says 'the polls struggled w Latino voters . '
” And she says , “ The polls ?
How abt hiring the right Latino pollsters ?
?
Of course we exist .
This is so typical .
It ’ s never WE GOT IT WRONG .
This time @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 'We did not do our jobs . '
” If you can talk about that , getting it wrong , Juan ?
You ’ re not only diving deep into the numbers , but you ’ re deconstructing the narrative that ’ s already coming out of this election .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : Yeah .
Well , as I mentioned , the poll — there ’ s one main poll .
Of course , AP now has their own poll , but the numbers are pretty similar .
But these pollsters have always @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Decisions pointed out last time , because , remember , in 2016 , the same narrative , that Latinos had moved unexpectedly toward Trump , was put out .
People forget that .
Four years ago , it was the same narrative .
But when Latino Decisions did their analysis — and they had a much more extensive polling of the Latino community , plus they looked at the actual numbers — it came much later .
It came months later after the election .
And they showed that it was impossible , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the country , for the Latino vote for Donald Trump to have been as high as the exit poll , the Edison exit poll , was claiming .
And they clearly pointed out to what were the failings of the poll .
One is that it has historically oversampled the Cuban American community in the overall Latino numbers .
Two is that it does not — it has not really gone into overwhelmingly African American or Latino communities — it tends to do its polling on the day of Election Day in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and also that it historically underrepresents those people who don ’ t speak English .
As a result , the poll is , by its construction , skewed .
And so , Latino Decisions saw significant differences between the exit poll and the actual Latino vote .
Now , we don ’ t have the full numbers yet .
There are places like New York and California where they ’ re still counting .
There are millions and millions of votes , especially in the blue states , that have not yet been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ gap that Biden has is only going to grow .
It ’ s not going to get smaller ; it ’ s going to keep growing .
And my estimate is it could possibly reach like 8 million , the difference in the vote .
But so , I think that we ’ re not going to get a full picture until we do the combination of the polling and the actual vote counts , precinct by precinct , around the country , to get a better sense of what has happened .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ take some time .
And mark my word : Six months from now or a year from now , when we have better data , we ’ re going to have to reassess what ’ s happened , but I ’ m willing to go on what we have already , what we have already , to say that the key story here is not small shifts in percentages , it ’ s raw increase in turnout .
That is the key .
That is the key .
And once you look at @ @ @ @ @ @ @ see that it is Latinx voters , African Americans , Asian Americans that are propelling the change in the electorate in the country .
AMY GOODMAN : And in the coming days , we ’ ll also be looking further into the Native American vote .
I want to encourage people to go back to democracynow.org to see Juan González ’ s original analysis last week in Part 1 of his analysis of the voters of this country .
Next up , we ’ re going to look at the election results in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ll look at the oral arguments before the Supreme Court on the Affordable Care Act .
Is the conservative body going to vote to preserve it ?
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: President-elect Joe Biden’s lead in the popular vote has jumped to over 5 million as President Trump continues to refuse to concede. About 160 million voters cast ballots. This is a new record. Much of the increased turnout was powered by people of color, while the total number of votes cast by white Americans barely increased from the last presidential election. Well, Juan, your analysis has been absolutely critical. That’s right, Democracy Now!’s Juan González has been closely looking at how the historic turnout in the Latinx community has impacted the race. Lay it out for us.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, Amy, the cascade of stories continues, claiming a surprising turn by Latino voters toward Donald Trump. The New York Times this week, front page, quote, “How Democrats Missed Trump’s Appeal to Latino Voters.” Then, the L.A. Times, “Latino voters tired of being taken for granted by baffled Democrats.” CNN and others claiming there’s no such thing as a Latino bloc. And even The Intercept saying in one of their stories that “Nonwhite Voters Are Not Immune to Right-Wing Populism.”
Well, I said last week, and I’ll repeat it again, the key narrative of this election is not whether there was a small shift in the percentage of Latinx voters in some areas of the country turning toward Trump. The main story is that in an election which saw historic turnout, people of color — and especially Latinos — had an unprecedented increase in voting. And they, not white voters, represented the bulk of that increase. Virtually none of the reports have mentioned this, that for the first time in U.S. history Latinos’ turnout appears to have reached comparable levels to the rates for white and Black Americans. Twenty-point-six million Latinos went to the polls in this election. That’s 64% of the 32 million eligible Latinx voters, while in previous election cycles the turnout had been routinely below 50%. In raw numbers, 8 million more Latinos voted this year than in 2016. That’s a 63% increase over the last presidential elections.
Now, I’ve updated and tweaked the chart from last week, and it shows that the biggest increase in both percentages and actual votes from four years ago came from Latino voters. Their jump in number of ballots cast nearly equaled that among white — the increase among white and Black voters combined. The next biggest jump, in percentage term, came among African American voters, who increased by 20%, Asian Americans by 16%, while white voters increased by just under 6%.
Now, some of these numbers, I should note, are different from what I displayed last week, in part because there’s been some little-noticed changes to the Edison national exit poll in the past few days compared to what was released on Election Day by all the networks. For instance, the original version estimated that whites were 65% of the electorate, while the latest figures say that they were 67%. And the poll also increases turnout for African Americans and Asians. Well, the Edison poll has always been flawed, and numerous analyses have shown its past samples were skewed to oversampling Cuban Americans, undersampling both Black and Latino inner-city polling sites, and also undersampling voters whose primary language is not English, all of which means it tends to undercount Latino voters for Democrats.
But the basic contours of the sampling remains the same, and it’s inescapable. After decades of political experts talking about the growing Latino vote, this year it actually happened. Hispanic voters felt compelled like never before to go to the polls, because COVID-19 fell them more than other groups, because of the constant demonization of Latinos by the president, because of the barbaric family separation policies, or because of the threats to healthcare, even, for some conservative Latinos, because of their hopes of finally turning back Roe v. Wade. One thing is sure: Neither the Democratic nor Republican parties will underestimate or ignore Latino voters from now on. This should be cause for widespread celebration as a long-awaited democratization of the vote.
But what about those who claim that Trump made major, unexpected inroads among Latino voters nationwide, as reflected by 66-to-32% split of the Latino vote between Biden and Trump? Some say that Latinos could be deserting the Democratic Party. Those of us who’ve been around the block a few times have heard this narrative before. In reality, these results are in the general ballpark of previous presidential campaigns.
I want to put up, hopefully, a chart here of how Latinos split their vote over the last 30 years in presidential elections. The Republican share of voters has varied, from a low of 27%, when Mitt Romney ran against Barack Obama in 2012, to a high of 44%, that George Bush got in his second presidential run in 2004. Even John McCain, when he ran against Obama in 2008, got a similar percentage of the Latino vote as Trump did this year. And the high point, the Bush victory in 2004, we should note, is the last time a Republican candidate got a majority of the popular vote.
But the big difference now is that the Latinx vote is so much larger. When you get two-thirds of a vote, that has tripled in size in just a few years, you begin to achieve critical mass. No wonder Lindsey Graham is warning that if these elections aren’t changed somehow, Republicans will never win the White House again.
What about those places like the Rio Grande Valley of Texas and South Florida, where Trump made real inroads in largely Latino districts in the actual vote? What about those pundits who claim Latinos are so diverse and diffuse as a population that it is erroneous to consider them a single community? First, on South [Florida] and the Rio Grande Valley, yes, actual vote results show that Trump had significant increases in his support there. Florida is not surprising, given the influx of conservative refugees from Nicaragua and Venezuela in recent years, but the Rio Grande Valley is.
In Hidalgo County, along the border, which is 90% Latino, Trump went from 27% against Hillary Clinton to 40% against Joe Biden. In Maverick County, which is 95% Latino, he went from 20% against Clinton to 45% against Biden. Those are significant numbers. The Valley, however, has changed rapidly during the Trump era. Always a socially conservative rural area, it has seen enormous job growth in recent years as a result of the militarization of the border, which brought thousands of new jobs to the area for Border Patrol officers, for workers on private construction of the wall with Mexico, for immigration detention centers. In addition, the Valley has replaced the San Diego sector as the epicenter of undocumented migrant crossings and the failed immigration system of the United States. All of that, no doubt, helped turn its residents for Trump.
But in the big cities of Texas, where most Latinos live, there’s another story. San Antonio’s Bexar County, for example, 60% Latino, saw Biden’s margin of votes climb, from 54 to 58%, though we’ll need better figures on how much of that was in the Latino community. It seems clear, however, that Latino turnout in states like Nevada, Arizona and Pennsylvania helped Biden win those key battleground states.
And then there’s California and New York. The Latino share of the vote that went to Biden appears to be breathtaking in those states: 77% in California, 72% in New York. Now, some argue that those are reliable blue states anyway, so those Hispanic voters are not really critical. Really? Aren’t those enormous Latino margins year after year what has made those states reliably blue? And the same for New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts and, lately, Colorado.
Then there are these nonsensical questions as to whether a Latino community actually exists. Let’s be clear: Latinx identity in the United States is a social construct, created both by the dominant society, that needed to define and categorize and other — other — and by the marginalized group itself, organically, from the ground, by disparate Latin American migrant groups who were forced to unite in order to survive in a hostile society and whose children gradually intermarried to create a new social construct: the Latino in America.
More than 20 years ago, I said in my book Harvest of Empire that Latinos had become — were becoming a new third force in American politics. They largely vote Democratic, but a significant portion is susceptible to Republican candidates if those political leaders address even a few of their concerns. Since then, Latin Americans from educated and middle-class backgrounds have migrated to this country in growing numbers, and a good portion have adopted typical American conservative views. Some of that community, though still a minority, have been drawn to right-wing populism, to national chauvinism, and even to racist views.
All of this fixation on Latinos, however, ignores the fundamental question of this election, which very few political observers I’ve seen have dared to tackle: Why the heck did 58% of white Americans vote for Donald Trump, including 55% of white women? With the United States consolidating itself as the world’s most powerful imperialist nation and the economic gap in the country widening, right-wing movements have only grown at home, and the defeat of Trump will not halt their growth. The key to building a progressive majority is to keep mobilizing more young Latinos to vote, burying the small percentage increases in support for right-wing candidates under an avalanche from people of color, organized labor and their allies. And that’s my take on this election.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Juan González, a just amazing deep dive into the numbers, so critical to understand this at this point, because, so early on, this is what shapes the narrative. And, you know, on Tuesday, the leading journalist Maria Hinojosa tweeted, quote, “I’m listening to The Daily on what went wrong w the polls.” She’s referring to The New York Times’ Daily podcast. “And,” she goes on, “just wow. With the issue that more white folks voted for trump right in front of us, the FIRST thing they do is talk abt Latino voters. It sounds like WE ARE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE for all of this! Two white guys on us.” Maria Hinojosa continued, “So Nate Cohen says 'the polls struggled w Latino voters.'” And she says, “The polls? How abt hiring the right Latino pollsters?? Of course we exist. This is so typical. It’s never WE GOT IT WRONG. This time and four years ago-wrong. How abt 'We did not do our jobs.'” If you can talk about that, getting it wrong, Juan? You’re not only diving deep into the numbers, but you’re deconstructing the narrative that’s already coming out of this election.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Yeah. Well, as I mentioned, the poll — there’s one main poll. Of course, AP now has their own poll, but the numbers are pretty similar. But these pollsters have always had flaws, as the group Latino Decisions pointed out last time, because, remember, in 2016, the same narrative, that Latinos had moved unexpectedly toward Trump, was put out. People forget that. Four years ago, it was the same narrative. But when Latino Decisions did their analysis — and they had a much more extensive polling of the Latino community, plus they looked at the actual numbers — it came much later. It came months later after the election. And they showed that it was impossible, in some areas, in several areas of the country, for the Latino vote for Donald Trump to have been as high as the exit poll, the Edison exit poll, was claiming.
And they clearly pointed out to what were the failings of the poll. One is that it has historically oversampled the Cuban American community in the overall Latino numbers. Two is that it does not — it has not really gone into overwhelmingly African American or Latino communities — it tends to do its polling on the day of Election Day in communities that are more racially mixed — and also that it historically underrepresents those people who don’t speak English. As a result, the poll is, by its construction, skewed. And so, Latino Decisions saw significant differences between the exit poll and the actual Latino vote.
Now, we don’t have the full numbers yet. There are places like New York and California where they’re still counting. There are millions and millions of votes, especially in the blue states, that have not yet been counted. So, this 5 million gap that Biden has is only going to grow. It’s not going to get smaller; it’s going to keep growing. And my estimate is it could possibly reach like 8 million, the difference in the vote. But so, I think that we’re not going to get a full picture until we do the combination of the polling and the actual vote counts, precinct by precinct, around the country, to get a better sense of what has happened. So, it’s going to take some time.
And mark my word: Six months from now or a year from now, when we have better data, we’re going to have to reassess what’s happened, but I’m willing to go on what we have already, what we have already, to say that the key story here is not small shifts in percentages, it’s raw increase in turnout. That is the key. That is the key. And once you look at the raw increase in turnout, you see that it is Latinx voters, African Americans, Asian Americans that are propelling the change in the electorate in the country.
AMY GOODMAN: And in the coming days, we’ll also be looking further into the Native American vote. I want to encourage people to go back to democracynow.org to see Juan González’s original analysis last week in Part 1 of his analysis of the voters of this country.
Next up, we’re going to look at the election results in Puerto Rico. And then we’ll look at the oral arguments before the Supreme Court on the Affordable Care Act. Is the conservative body going to vote to preserve it? Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-11-11--Headlines for November 11, 2020

Headlines for November 11, 2020

The United States confirmed nearly 140,000 new coronavirus infections on Tuesday — setting yet another world record for daily cases .
The U.S. has confirmed over a million new infections in just the first 10 days of November , and U.S. coronavirus hospitalizations have topped 60,000 for the first time .
In Oklahoma , Republican Governor Kevin Stitt is resisting public health officials ’ pleas to order a statewide mask mandate , after hospitals in Tulsa ran out of intensive care unit beds .
Texas has passed a million confirmed coronavirus cases — more than the entire nation of Italy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ more than doubled their supply of mobile morgues , as ICU beds have run out and COVID-19 patients are being routed to a downtown convention center that ’ s been converted into a field hospital .
Iowa Republican Governor Kim Reynolds has ordered a limited mask mandate for the first time — for indoor gatherings of 25 people or more .
Philadelphia ’ s public school district has once again delayed the return of in-person classes for students , saying remote learning will continue “ until further notice.
” Meanwhile , Newark , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ p.m. curfew on weeknights as cases surge .
And here in New York , Mayor Bill de Blasio is warning of a second wave of coronavirus across the city as the test positivity rate now exceeds 2 % .

The United States confirmed nearly 140,000 new coronavirus infections on Tuesday — setting yet another world record for daily cases. The U.S. has confirmed over a million new infections in just the first 10 days of November, and U.S. coronavirus hospitalizations have topped 60,000 for the first time.
In Oklahoma, Republican Governor Kevin Stitt is resisting public health officials’ pleas to order a statewide mask mandate, after hospitals in Tulsa ran out of intensive care unit beds.
Texas has passed a million confirmed coronavirus cases — more than the entire nation of Italy. In El Paso, officials have more than doubled their supply of mobile morgues, as ICU beds have run out and COVID-19 patients are being routed to a downtown convention center that’s been converted into a field hospital.
Iowa Republican Governor Kim Reynolds has ordered a limited mask mandate for the first time — for indoor gatherings of 25 people or more.
Philadelphia’s public school district has once again delayed the return of in-person classes for students, saying remote learning will continue “until further notice.”
Meanwhile, Newark, New Jersey, has ordered a 9 p.m. curfew on weeknights as cases surge. And here in New York, Mayor Bill de Blasio is warning of a second wave of coronavirus across the city as the test positivity rate now exceeds 2%.


democracynow--2020-11-12--"More of an Exorcism Than an Election": Priya Gopal on What Biden Win Means for Britain & Ireland

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : We end today in Britain .
We end our look at the world ’ s reaction to U.S. presidential election in the United Kingdom , where , on Wednesday , Prime Minister Boris Johnson was questioned by Labour MP Angela Eagle about his relationship to Trump and the incoming Biden-Harris administration .
Well , for more , we go to Cambridge , where we ’ re joined by Priya Gopal , university professor in the Faculty of English at the University of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : Anticolonial Resistance and British Dissent .
Professor Gopal , welcome back to Democracy Now !
First , let ’ s just get your reaction to the Biden-Harris victory .
And , of course , Kamala Harris , the first African American vice president , first woman vice president , first Indian American vice president .
You ’ re from the Indian subcontinent , as well .
PRIYAMVADA GOPAL : Well , I mean , I think , with much of the rest of the world , I share not so much a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ relief that , with any luck , Trump will be out in January .
I ’ ve described this election more as an exorcism than an election .
I think that even people who are not particularly pro-Biden or otherwise fond of the Democrats are heaving a sigh of relief .
And I think that I share that with much of Britain , as well , that , in some sense , the disaster that Trump has been is gone .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : And , Priya , could you say a little @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Johnson had with Trump ?
Johnson was known as — by some , as Britain ’ s Trump , and that when Trump won in 2016 , or prior , when he was running for the elections , he said that his victory would be “ Brexit plus plus plus.
” And now , of course , Britain is confronting its actual exit from the EU in January .
And what you expect the Biden administration — how you think the Biden administration will deal with this Brexit issue , and Trump ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : Yeah .
I mean , I think that Johnson ’ s comments in Parliament were disingenuous in the extreme .
The fact remains that he was relying , I think , on a good chance of a Trump victory .
We know that when he congratulated President-elect Biden , we could see that Trump had been erased just underneath that tweet .
I think they were certainly hoping that there would be a Trump victory .
Brexit and Trump , as Trump quite correctly recognized , are very deeply in sync .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ underestimate the extent to which Brexit has mobilized some of the same forces that Trump unleashed in America — jingoism ; extreme nationalism ; in the case of Britain , of course , also empire pride ; white supremacy .
Trump absolutely rightly recognized that he and Brexit were very much allied .
Johnson is indeed Britain ’ s Trump .
Again , because of the sort of cheery exterior and the way in which he bats questions away , people think he ’ s sort of harmless and a bit clownish .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ and others in his administration share a very hard line on Brexit .
And , in fact , until Biden ’ s victory , Britain was moving in the direction of a no-deal Brexit .
Now , I think that one thing that may happen — and we have some evidence that there is disarray in Johnson ’ s inner circle — is that Biden will — has made very clear his support for the Good Friday Agreement , his absolute opposition to any violation of the Good Friday Agreement .
Now , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has been prepared to be an international rogue state and break the withdrawal agreement , in what it calls a specific and limited way , but nonetheless it would be a breach of international law .
And I think that Trump ’ s — Biden ’ s victory has made this a little less easy for the Johnson government than they might have wanted it to be .
I think quite a big spoke has been put in the wheel of hard Brexiteers .
AMY GOODMAN : The New York Times had an @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Wouldn ’ t He ?
Johnson Is Relieved That Biden Called.
” You might think that it ’ s the world leaders calling Biden , but a lot of the time it ’ s Biden calling them .
“ The British prime minister made the A team , with Emmanuel Macron and Angela Merkel , though pesky Ireland also sneaked in.
” And that ’ s where we ’ re going to have to end it .
I want to ask you , Priya Gopal , about how Ireland plays into this , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from Ireland , and the significance of that when it comes to global politics and Brexit .
PRIYAMVADA GOPAL : Well , I think it ’ s hugely significant .
Biden jokingly told the BBC , when he was asked for comment , he said , “ I ’ m Irish.
” And I think that that has been welcomed in Ireland .
We have the British right wing already going really nuts over the Ireland connection .
They ’ ve been commenting in The Spectator magazine , the right-wing journal , commenting @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
I think they have treated Ireland with a degree of callousness and indifference when it comes to Brexit .
And I think that Biden ’ s very clear links with Ireland , which have caused , I think , jubilation in Ireland , have caused a parallel degree of dismay with hard-line right-wing Brexiteers in Britain .
And I think that certainly the Irish question is now going to have to be resolved with a great deal more nuance and care than Johnson was originally planning to do .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ conclude , the comparison with the response in Europe — in France and Germany , in particular — to Biden ’ s victory ?
PRIYAMVADA GOPAL : Well , I think in Europe there has been a degree of pleasure at returning , I think , to business as usual , in both the good and the bad senses of the term .
There is a higher degree of comfort with the centrist consensus that Biden will bring back to the U.S. ’ s engagement with the EU .
There is a centrist @ @ @ @ @ @ @ British opposition , the Labour Party .
And I think that centrist and liberal forces in Britain and in the EU are welcoming what they feel is a higher degree of comfort in the milieu that Biden belongs to , that NATO will come back onto the table , and the transatlantic partnership , as Angela Merkel put it , will return to some degree of normality , as the European center sees it .
AMY GOODMAN : We want to thank you so much , Priya Gopal , professor at University of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Anticolonial Resistance and British Dissent .
That does it for our show .
Special thanks to Ghaith Abdul-Ahad in Turkey , to Maria Luísa Mendonça speaking about Brazil , and Kumi Naidoo in South Africa .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Nermeen Shaikh .
Stay safe .
Wear a mask .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We end today in Britain. We end our look at the world’s reaction to U.S. presidential election in the United Kingdom, where, on Wednesday, Prime Minister Boris Johnson was questioned by Labour MP Angela Eagle about his relationship to Trump and the incoming Biden-Harris administration.
ANGELA EAGLE: Does the prime minister now have any advice for his erstwhile best friend, President Trump, whose continuing refusal to accept the result is both embarrassing for him and dangerous for American democracy?
SPEAKER: Prime minister.
PRIME MINISTER BORIS JOHNSON: Well, Mr. Speaker, I had — and have — a good relationship with the previous president. I do not resile from that, as it’s the duty of all British prime ministers to have a good relationship with the White House. But I am delighted to find the many areas in which the Biden — the incoming Biden-Harris administration is able to make common cause with us.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Britain’s Prime Minister Boris Johnson publicly calling his ally Trump “the previous president.”
Well, for more, we go to Cambridge, where we’re joined by Priya Gopal, university professor in the Faculty of English at the University of Cambridge, the author of Insurgent Empire: Anticolonial Resistance and British Dissent.
Professor Gopal, welcome back to Democracy Now! First, let’s just get your reaction to the Biden-Harris victory. And, of course, Kamala Harris, the first African American vice president, first woman vice president, first Indian American vice president. You’re from the Indian subcontinent, as well.
PRIYAMVADA GOPAL: Well, I mean, I think, with much of the rest of the world, I share not so much a sense of joy as a sense of relief that, with any luck, Trump will be out in January. I’ve described this election more as an exorcism than an election. I think that even people who are not particularly pro-Biden or otherwise fond of the Democrats are heaving a sigh of relief. And I think that I share that with much of Britain, as well, that, in some sense, the disaster that Trump has been is gone.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Priya, could you say a little about the relationship that Prime Minister Boris Johnson had with Trump? Johnson was known as — by some, as Britain’s Trump, and that when Trump won in 2016, or prior, when he was running for the elections, he said that his victory would be “Brexit plus plus plus.” And now, of course, Britain is confronting its actual exit from the EU in January. And what you expect the Biden administration — how you think the Biden administration will deal with this Brexit issue, and Trump’s relationship with Johnson?
PRIYAMVADA GOPAL: Yeah. I mean, I think that Johnson’s comments in Parliament were disingenuous in the extreme. The fact remains that he was relying, I think, on a good chance of a Trump victory. We know that when he congratulated President-elect Biden, we could see that Trump had been erased just underneath that tweet. I think they were certainly hoping that there would be a Trump victory.
Brexit and Trump, as Trump quite correctly recognized, are very deeply in sync. I think that audiences in America perhaps underestimate the extent to which Brexit has mobilized some of the same forces that Trump unleashed in America — jingoism; extreme nationalism; in the case of Britain, of course, also empire pride; white supremacy. Trump absolutely rightly recognized that he and Brexit were very much allied.
Johnson is indeed Britain’s Trump. Again, because of the sort of cheery exterior and the way in which he bats questions away, people think he’s sort of harmless and a bit clownish. But he’s not. He and others in his administration share a very hard line on Brexit. And, in fact, until Biden’s victory, Britain was moving in the direction of a no-deal Brexit.
Now, I think that one thing that may happen — and we have some evidence that there is disarray in Johnson’s inner circle — is that Biden will — has made very clear his support for the Good Friday Agreement, his absolute opposition to any violation of the Good Friday Agreement. Now, remember, up until now, Britain has been prepared to be an international rogue state and break the withdrawal agreement, in what it calls a specific and limited way, but nonetheless it would be a breach of international law. And I think that Trump’s — Biden’s victory has made this a little less easy for the Johnson government than they might have wanted it to be. I think quite a big spoke has been put in the wheel of hard Brexiteers.
AMY GOODMAN: The New York Times had an interesting piece, “Would He or Wouldn’t He? Johnson Is Relieved That Biden Called.” You might think that it’s the world leaders calling Biden, but a lot of the time it’s Biden calling them. “The British prime minister made the A team, with Emmanuel Macron and Angela Merkel, though pesky Ireland also sneaked in.” And that’s where we’re going to have to end it. I want to ask you, Priya Gopal, about how Ireland plays into this, being that Biden’s family is from Ireland, and the significance of that when it comes to global politics and Brexit.
PRIYAMVADA GOPAL: Well, I think it’s hugely significant. Biden jokingly told the BBC, when he was asked for comment, he said, “I’m Irish.” And I think that that has been welcomed in Ireland. We have the British right wing already going really nuts over the Ireland connection. They’ve been commenting in The Spectator magazine, the right-wing journal, commenting about the weaponization of Ireland against them. I think they have treated Ireland with a degree of callousness and indifference when it comes to Brexit. And I think that Biden’s very clear links with Ireland, which have caused, I think, jubilation in Ireland, have caused a parallel degree of dismay with hard-line right-wing Brexiteers in Britain. And I think that certainly the Irish question is now going to have to be resolved with a great deal more nuance and care than Johnson was originally planning to do.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Priya, very quickly, before we conclude, the comparison with the response in Europe — in France and Germany, in particular — to Biden’s victory?
PRIYAMVADA GOPAL: Well, I think in Europe there has been a degree of pleasure at returning, I think, to business as usual, in both the good and the bad senses of the term. There is a higher degree of comfort with the centrist consensus that Biden will bring back to the U.S.’s engagement with the EU. There is a centrist consensus both in Europe and with the British opposition, the Labour Party. And I think that centrist and liberal forces in Britain and in the EU are welcoming what they feel is a higher degree of comfort in the milieu that Biden belongs to, that NATO will come back onto the table, and the transatlantic partnership, as Angela Merkel put it, will return to some degree of normality, as the European center sees it.
AMY GOODMAN: We want to thank you so much, Priya Gopal, professor at University of Cambridge, author of Insurgent Empire: Anticolonial Resistance and British Dissent.
That does it for our show. Special thanks to Ghaith Abdul-Ahad in Turkey, to Maria Luísa Mendonça speaking about Brazil, and Kumi Naidoo in South Africa. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh. Stay safe. Wear a mask.


democracynow--2020-11-12--Trump Loss Decreases Chance of Iran War, But Many Iraqis Fear U.S. Policy Under Biden, Too

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Nermeen Shaikh , as we turn now to look at how Joe Biden ’ s presidency will influence U.S. relations in the Middle East , as the Trump administration reportedly prepares to flood Iran with new sanctions ahead of the January 20th transition of power .
The news website Axios reports Trump ’ s State Department is coordinating the sanctions with Israel , in part to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ nuclear deal , which Donald Trump pulled out of in 2018 .
This comes as the State Department is refusing to acknowledge Joe Biden ’ s presidential win or pass on messages from world leaders to him .
On Tuesday , Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was asked to compare the Trump administration ’ s response to Biden ’ s victory with overseas elections where defeated candidates cling to power .
AMY GOODMAN : That was the secretary of state under President Trump .
Well , for more , we go to Istanbul @ @ @ @ @ @ @ joined by Ghaith Abdul-Ahad .
He is an Iraqi journalist , correspondent for The Guardian newspaper .
It ’ s great to have you with us .
Let ’ s start on Iran and what this means for Iran .
President Trump not only pulled out of the accord , but , as we pointed out , is now imposing more and more fierce sanctions .
Talk about the significance of this , and your response to the Biden victory , that Trump will not accept .
GHAITH ABDUL-AHAD : I mean , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you again .
I mean , the biggest fear in Iraq , where I ’ m from , is the America-Iran war .
And any conflict will take place on Iraqi soil .
Any conflict .
Already we ’ ve seen the clashes , the provocations .
All these things are happening in Iraq .
They ’ re not happening in America .
They ’ re not happening in Iran .
So , that is the biggest fear .
There was a sigh of relief that Trump has lost the elections , because @ @ @ @ @ @ @ war is distant .
However , that ’ s not very — you know , it ’ s not very sure , kind of hearing about the shuffle in the Cabinet .
So that is creating an anxiety in Iraq .
So , people are looking at the Trump-Biden election with two angles .
One is the possibility of an Iranian-American war , and how would that affect Iraq .
However , although people are very — you know , people are relieved that Biden has won the elections .
At the same @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Iraq toward the Biden administration .
I mean , we have to remember that early on , when Biden was a vice president in the Obama administration , Biden helped former Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki to win another term or to become a prime minister for a second term .
And that was seen as a disastrous moment , which brought sectarianism back into Iraq , which again led to the emergence of ISIS .
So , there is not much optimism .
There is anxiety towards Biden and his team in the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is a fear in Iraq .
And this is very ironic — right ?
— because we ’ re talking about the liberals , the leftists , the people who went into demonstrations in the streets last year kind of calling for a better democratic system , end of corruption , end of the rule of the militias in Iraq .
Now those same activists are worried that a Biden administration might kind of be appeasing to the Iranians .
So , it ’ s all convoluted .
I mean , it ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from a one single point : How do we avoid a confrontation between America and Iran on Iraqi soil ?
And I think that ’ s the most important thing for Iraqis .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Ghaith , you mentioned that people in Iraq and elsewhere across the region , at least in parts of the region , you know , heaved a sign of relief with Biden ’ s victory , but , of course , as you said , there are concerns in Iraq about what this might mean .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to a 2017 analysis of the last year of Obama ’ s presidency — that is , of 2016 — this Council on Foreign Relations report found that in his last year in office , the U.S. dropped an average of 72 bombs every day .
That ’ s the equivalent of three bombs an hour .
Twenty-six thousand bombs in — over 26,000 bombs in total were dropped on Iraq , Syria , Afghanistan , Libya , Yemen , Somalia and Pakistan .
So , obviously , there are concerns about what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ strategy will be in the Middle East .
So , could you say a little more about that ?
And then , what will happen to Trump ’ s erstwhile allies — in particular , Saudi Arabia — under a Biden administration ?
GHAITH ABDUL-AHAD : I mean , Nermeen , that ’ s a very good point , because we have to remember that one of the most atrocious wars taking place now in the Middle East , one of the most unjustified , illegal wars taking place , is the war @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Obama administration ; that did not start under the Trump administration .
So , it is a very good point , because although the Trump administration has been atrocious , and , you know , as atrocious as it could be , we also have to remember that in the Middle East , it ’ s not like the previous administration or the one before , or the Clinton administration even , was such an angelic kind of administration in relation to Iraq and the rest of the Middle East .
So the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it ’ s : How do we avoid a confrontation with Iran ?
So , again I go back to the Iraqi perspective .
In Iraq , there are two things that are happening at the same time .
One , to avoid the war with Iran , because that would be disastrous .
The second thing is , how do you pressure the Iranians to take away some of the backing to their militias , to — because we have two states in Iraq at the moment .
We have a state @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have the general , the main state .
So , how do you convince the Iranians , to assure the Iranians , that they don ’ t need to defend themselves in Iraq anymore , they don ’ t need to arm , equip militias , because they do all these things to defend themselves against any possible American aggression ?
And the examples are so wide and many in the region , from an Iranian perspective .
So , again , yes , there is the fear .
There ’ s anxiety @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Biden administration in terms of their policy to Iraq , Iran and the Middle East .
But then again , we have to see the Middle East in — during the Trump days , the Middle East was cut almost halfway .
You have the Gulf countries coalition , and I would include Gulf countries-Israel coalition .
And you have Iran coalition .
And everyone else — the Yemenis , the Iraqis , the Syrians — every one of us is squeezed between these two alliances , between these two gigantic military powers @ @ @ @ @ @ @ anymore , but the United Arab Emirates , Israel on one side , and the Iranians on the other side .
And many people are just like fed up with this competition , because — again , I repeat the same line — the competition is happening in Yemen , in Iraq , in Syria .
It ’ s not happening in Iran , it ’ s not happening in Dubai , and it ’ s not happening definitely in Washington .
So , how will the Biden administration , again , try @ @ @ @ @ @ @ politics , at one hand , and at the same time avoiding the mad policies of the Trump administration by pushing the Iranians into a corner and forcing them to equip , arm militias , fire rockets , and whatnot ?
AMY GOODMAN : Ghaith , we have to end the conversation here , but we will definitely have you back on soon .
Ghaith Abdul-Ahad , Iraqi journalist and correspondent for The Guardian newspaper , today speaking to us from Istanbul , Turkey .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh, as we turn now to look at how Joe Biden’s presidency will influence U.S. relations in the Middle East, as the Trump administration reportedly prepares to flood Iran with new sanctions ahead of the January 20th transition of power. The news website Axios reports Trump’s State Department is coordinating the sanctions with Israel, in part to prevent Biden from rejoining the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, which Donald Trump pulled out of in 2018. This comes as the State Department is refusing to acknowledge Joe Biden’s presidential win or pass on messages from world leaders to him. On Tuesday, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was asked to compare the Trump administration’s response to Biden’s victory with overseas elections where defeated candidates cling to power.
REUTERS REPORTER: This department frequently sends out statements encouraging free and fair elections abroad —
SECRETARY OF STATE MIKE POMPEO: Yes.
REUTERS REPORTER: — and for the losers of those elections to accept the results. Doesn’t President Trump’s refusal to concede discredit those efforts?
SECRETARY OF STATE MIKE POMPEO: That’s ridiculous. And you know it’s ridiculous. And you asked it because it’s ridiculous.
AMY GOODMAN: That was the secretary of state under President Trump.
Well, for more, we go to Istanbul, Turkey, where we’re joined by Ghaith Abdul-Ahad. He is an Iraqi journalist, correspondent for The Guardian newspaper.
It’s great to have you with us. Let’s start on Iran and what this means for Iran. President Trump not only pulled out of the accord, but, as we pointed out, is now imposing more and more fierce sanctions. Talk about the significance of this, and your response to the Biden victory, that Trump will not accept.
GHAITH ABDUL-AHAD: I mean, Amy, so good to talk to you again.
I mean, the biggest fear in Iraq, where I’m from, is the America-Iran war. And any conflict will take place on Iraqi soil. Any conflict. Already we’ve seen the clashes, the provocations. All these things are happening in Iraq. They’re not happening in America. They’re not happening in Iran. So, that is the biggest fear.
There was a sigh of relief that Trump has lost the elections, because that meant any possibility of a future war is distant. However, that’s not very — you know, it’s not very sure, kind of hearing about the shuffle in the Cabinet. So that is creating an anxiety in Iraq.
So, people are looking at the Trump-Biden election with two angles. One is the possibility of an Iranian-American war, and how would that affect Iraq. However, although people are very — you know, people are relieved that Biden has won the elections. At the same time, there is an anxiety in Iraq toward the Biden administration.
I mean, we have to remember that early on, when Biden was a vice president in the Obama administration, Biden helped former Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki to win another term or to become a prime minister for a second term. And that was seen as a disastrous moment, which brought sectarianism back into Iraq, which again led to the emergence of ISIS. So, there is not much optimism. There is anxiety towards Biden and his team in the way they deal with Iraq. There is a fear in Iraq.
And this is very ironic — right? — because we’re talking about the liberals, the leftists, the people who went into demonstrations in the streets last year kind of calling for a better democratic system, end of corruption, end of the rule of the militias in Iraq. Now those same activists are worried that a Biden administration might kind of be appeasing to the Iranians. So, it’s all convoluted. I mean, it’s all — it’s seen from a one single point: How do we avoid a confrontation between America and Iran on Iraqi soil? And I think that’s the most important thing for Iraqis.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Ghaith, you mentioned that people in Iraq and elsewhere across the region, at least in parts of the region, you know, heaved a sign of relief with Biden’s victory, but, of course, as you said, there are concerns in Iraq about what this might mean. And I just want to mention that according to a 2017 analysis of the last year of Obama’s presidency — that is, of 2016 — this Council on Foreign Relations report found that in his last year in office, the U.S. dropped an average of 72 bombs every day. That’s the equivalent of three bombs an hour. Twenty-six thousand bombs in — over 26,000 bombs in total were dropped on Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan. So, obviously, there are concerns about what Biden’s military and foreign policy strategy will be in the Middle East. So, could you say a little more about that? And then, what will happen to Trump’s erstwhile allies — in particular, Saudi Arabia — under a Biden administration?
GHAITH ABDUL-AHAD: I mean, Nermeen, that’s a very good point, because we have to remember that one of the most atrocious wars taking place now in the Middle East, one of the most unjustified, illegal wars taking place, is the war in Yemen. That started under the Obama administration; that did not start under the Trump administration. So, it is a very good point, because although the Trump administration has been atrocious, and, you know, as atrocious as it could be, we also have to remember that in the Middle East, it’s not like the previous administration or the one before, or the Clinton administration even, was such an angelic kind of administration in relation to Iraq and the rest of the Middle East. So the anxiety is there.
But still, it’s: How do we avoid a confrontation with Iran? So, again I go back to the Iraqi perspective. In Iraq, there are two things that are happening at the same time. One, to avoid the war with Iran, because that would be disastrous. The second thing is, how do you pressure the Iranians to take away some of the backing to their militias, to — because we have two states in Iraq at the moment. We have a state run by the militias, and we have the general, the main state. So, how do you convince the Iranians, to assure the Iranians, that they don’t need to defend themselves in Iraq anymore, they don’t need to arm, equip militias, because they do all these things to defend themselves against any possible American aggression? And the examples are so wide and many in the region, from an Iranian perspective. So, again, yes, there is the fear. There’s anxiety. There is the mistrust to the Biden administration in terms of their policy to Iraq, Iran and the Middle East.
But then again, we have to see the Middle East in — during the Trump days, the Middle East was cut almost halfway. You have the Gulf countries coalition, and I would include Gulf countries-Israel coalition. And you have Iran coalition. And everyone else — the Yemenis, the Iraqis, the Syrians — every one of us is squeezed between these two alliances, between these two gigantic military powers in the region — not Saudi Arabia anymore, but the United Arab Emirates, Israel on one side, and the Iranians on the other side. And many people are just like fed up with this competition, because — again, I repeat the same line — the competition is happening in Yemen, in Iraq, in Syria. It’s not happening in Iran, it’s not happening in Dubai, and it’s not happening definitely in Washington. So, how will the Biden administration, again, try to disengage Iran from interfering in Iraqi politics, at one hand, and at the same time avoiding the mad policies of the Trump administration by pushing the Iranians into a corner and forcing them to equip, arm militias, fire rockets, and whatnot?
AMY GOODMAN: Ghaith, we have to end the conversation here, but we will definitely have you back on soon. Ghaith Abdul-Ahad, Iraqi journalist and correspondent for The Guardian newspaper, today speaking to us from Istanbul, Turkey.


democracynow--2020-11-12--South African Activist Kumi Naidoo: Trump is Attempting a Coup to Install Minority Rule

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Nermeen Shaikh .
This is The Quarantine Report .
As we continue to look at the world ’ s response to the U.S. election and President Donald Trump ’ s loss to Joe Biden , we continue in the Global South .
We go to Africa .
South Africa ’ s Nelson Mandela Foundation called the defeat of Trump a “ relief , ” saying , quote , “ Now @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of undoing the Trump administration ’ s deepening of racism , xenophobia , Afrophobia , ” unquote .
President Trump never visited a single country on the African continent during his time in office .
He infamously praised the healthcare system of “ Nambia ” — mispronouncing Namibia — during a speech at the United Nations .
AMY GOODMAN : President Trump also sparked outrage when he referred to Haiti and African nations as “ s—hole countries ” — but he used the full word .
President-elect Biden has said he will halt @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Organization and rejoin the Paris Climate Agreement .
Africa is likely to be the continent hit hardest by the climate crisis .
For more , we go to Durban , South Africa , to speak with Kumi Naidoo , the global ambassador for Africans Rising for Justice , Peace and Dignity , a lifelong South African human rights and climate justice activist , former secretary general of Amnesty International and also former head of Greenpeace .
Kumi , welcome back to Democracy Now !
It ’ s great to have you with us @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and your own response to the defeat of Donald Trump , whether he accepts it or not , and what he has meant for the continent ?
KUMI NAIDOO : The sentiment expressed with the Nelson Mandela Foundation will be shared by the overwhelming majority of citizens across the African continent .
I would say that while many on the continent are relieved that President-elect Joe Biden has won , we are concerned that still so many American citizens chose to vote for somebody who ’ s clearly racist , sexist , xenophobe @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I think , as others have said , it ’ s a relief .
And now we find ourselves in a really unique situation , because I think our brothers and sisters in America are finding out that it ’ s much easier for them to change presidents in other countries than to change the president in their own country .
But this moment is one where we also have to recognize how much of time we have lost in the last four years as a result on climate , on inequality , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as a result of the Trump administration .
So , this is a relief , but it is not something for us to — at this stage , anyway — celebrate with any great enthusiasm .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : Well , Kumi , as you mentioned , Trump has not only refused to concede defeat , he has also , in the last week , instituted a massive reshuffle in parts of the security establishment , most notably firing the secretary of defense , Mark Esper .
The New York Times has reported @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the CIA Director Gina Haspel might be the next to go .
And there have been remarks , in all kinds of quarters , about the fact that if this were happening in any other country in the world , there would be outrage , and people would say that it is Trump attempting a coup d ’ état .
Could you respond to that ?
KUMI NAIDOO : Well , firstly , it ’ s clear that Trump is attempting a coup d ’ état .
He ’ s trying to do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ deceit .
And it ’ s shocking that the Republican Party establishment is standing by .
But let ’ s be very clear that this doesn ’ t come as a shock to us , because the United States administration , against the wishes of their own people , often have a foreign policy and approach to these things as “ Do as we tell you to do ; do not do as we do , ” because — I mean , let me give you another example .
Imagine a country in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s go back to the governor ’ s race , where the candidate for governor is also the person responsible for running the elections , as you have in many states in the U.S. where these are political party appointments .
That would be completely unacceptable , right ?
That needs to change in the United States .
Secondly , the fact that you have an electoral system that will have 7 million more people voting for one candidate than the other , but technically that the minority candidate wins .
So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at it , coming from South Africa , you almost have the potential , very easily , for minority rule in the U.S. And I think the Electoral College , for example , is not understood not only by people around the world , it ’ s not really understood by the United dates .
What was a device put in place centuries ago clearly is inappropriate .
And those are the kinds of changes — the absolute hypocrisy that we are seeing .
And yeah , we have to be fair .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ of these inconsistencies were not [ inaudible ] Republican administrations .
These inconsistencies , we ’ ve seen by both Republican and Democratic establishment administrations over a long time .
NERMEEN SHAIKH : And , Kumi , can we talk now a little about what Africa ’ s response — how Africa — many countries in Africa have responded much better than the rest of the world , and certainly than the U.S. , to the pandemic , and the fact that Trump , of course , has not — the U.S. has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Vaccines Global Access Facility , which would work towards making the vaccine accessible to countries all across the world ?
Biden has , of course , said he will join the World Health Organization , not pull out .
So , could you talk about that ?
First of all , what is the situation of the coronavirus in South Africa , but also more broadly , and how well the countries in Africa have dealt with the pandemic ?
And then the question of vaccine access .
KUMI NAIDOO : Thank you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ permitted a comment on coronavirus in the United States and how it ’ s been handled , I think , first , we should say , as Africans , we are horrified at the lack of respect for human life , the fact that the biggest superspreader of this virus has been the president of the United States by irresponsibly holding rallies that violated the CDC guidelines left , right and center .
And given the resources that the United States has , it should have been doing significantly better , with appropriate @ @ @ @ @ @ @ doing in Africa .
So , let me tell you , yesterday in South Africa , President Ramaphosa went on television to warn our country and our people that we are still in serious times , the pandemic is still serious , we need to address it , and so on .
And guess what our situation is in South Africa .
We have a daily infection rate of 2,000 people per day , and we have a death rate of less than 50 a day , and declining .
The hospitalizations and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , our president goes on television and says we need to be vigilant , we need to wear masks , we need to social distance , we need to continue to treat this as a real threat .
I think if ever people wanted to get a sense about who President Trump — what he really cares about , it ’ s all really about himself .
How the American people can not see it sometimes is shocking to us , because , clearly , the way he has treated the coronavirus is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I would argue , if I was a citizen of the United States , I would be pushing for President Trump to have been impeached as a result of the response to the coronavirus .
It ’ s close to a crime against humanity .
But when we look at it in Africa , let me just say , we are anxious — right ?
— because we are dependent , in many parts of the continent , on tourism , on trade , and so on , for people ’ s livelihoods @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and Europe doesn ’ t get its act together and doesn ’ t get this pandemic under control , it means that normal economic activity will never be able to take place — for example , tourism and so on , which has huge impacts on many African economies .
So , we are concerned .
Let me just say one thing , though .
It ’ s very interesting , to pick up on your report here where you say Bolsonaro in Brazil , second-worst country after the United States .
U.K. @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of Donald Trump — is the worst country in Europe per capita .
Modi is doing terribly in India , and so on .
And it ’ s very interesting to see a lot of these leaders who are authoritarian , fascist-like , and so on , are the ones that are showing that they will respond with the least care of their own citizens .
And I think it is important for us to note that women are suffering disproportionately as a result of this virus , because of the nature of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , but it ’ s also important to note that the countries that have done best in responding to the coronavirus , most of them are all led by women .
And I think there is a lesson in that about how important it is for us to have much more equity in terms of gender in our leadership in all levels , in all countries , in all institutions .
AMY GOODMAN : Finally , Kumi — and , of course , we ’ re going to come back to you on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on issues of Biden saying he will immediately rejoin the U.N. climate summit , but I just want to ask : Why does who is president of the United States matter so much to the rest of the world ?
KUMI NAIDOO : Well , if I might say that Julius Nyerere , the Tanzanian president that led us to liberation in Tanzania , once said , when we look at the United States , it ’ s weird to look at this country , because we have , seemingly , two parties @ @ @ @ @ @ @ big business and big capital .
And he actually went on to say , “ The United States is a one-party state , but with typical American extravagance , they have two of them.
” Now , in the current moment , we have been watching carefully — right ?
— because it ’ s easy for us to be triumphalistic and euphoric about President-elect Joe Biden because the incumbent is such a disastrous reality , but we will be vigilant , from our perspective , in recognizing that hopefully President Biden is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we would give fair notice that we will not — we will not be making an assumption that everything is going to get better .
We expect things will improve , but it can not but improve from the low bar that Donald Trump set .
It ’ s not a question of now whether things just improve .
The United States has an obligation to the world to ensure that the four years we ’ ve lost under Trump , and many , many more years that we lost on climate action @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to do .
And we expect the next president of the United States to recognize that the United States has let the world down , has dragged their feet and has put the entire world , including the United States , at risk from climate , and therefore we would expect from this new administration not simply an improvement and not simply rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic while humanity sinks , but serious structural and systemic change that addresses the challenge of climate change .
AMY GOODMAN : Kumi Naidoo , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with us , global ambassador for Africans Rising for Justice , Peace and Dignity , lifelong South African human rights activist and climate justice activist .
When we come back , we go to Istanbul , Turkey , and then to the U.K. , for response to this historic U.S. election .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh. This is The Quarantine Report.
As we continue to look at the world’s response to the U.S. election and President Donald Trump’s loss to Joe Biden, we continue in the Global South. We go to Africa. South Africa’s Nelson Mandela Foundation called the defeat of Trump a “relief,” saying, quote, “Now begins the daunting task for the US of undoing the Trump administration’s deepening of racism, xenophobia, Afrophobia,” unquote.
President Trump never visited a single country on the African continent during his time in office. He infamously praised the healthcare system of “Nambia” — mispronouncing Namibia — during a speech at the United Nations.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Uganda has made incredible strides in the battle against HIV/AIDS. In Guinea and Nigeria, you fought a horrifying Ebola outbreak. Nambia’s health system is increasingly self-sufficient.
AMY GOODMAN: President Trump also sparked outrage when he referred to Haiti and African nations as “s—hole countries” — but he used the full word.
President-elect Biden has said he will halt the U.S. withdrawal from the World Health Organization and rejoin the Paris Climate Agreement. Africa is likely to be the continent hit hardest by the climate crisis.
For more, we go to Durban, South Africa, to speak with Kumi Naidoo, the global ambassador for Africans Rising for Justice, Peace and Dignity, a lifelong South African human rights and climate justice activist, former secretary general of Amnesty International and also former head of Greenpeace.
Kumi, welcome back to Democracy Now! It’s great to have you with us. Can you talk about South Africa and your own response to the defeat of Donald Trump, whether he accepts it or not, and what he has meant for the continent?
KUMI NAIDOO: The sentiment expressed with the Nelson Mandela Foundation will be shared by the overwhelming majority of citizens across the African continent. I would say that while many on the continent are relieved that President-elect Joe Biden has won, we are concerned that still so many American citizens chose to vote for somebody who’s clearly racist, sexist, xenophobe, Islamophobe and so on. But I think, as others have said, it’s a relief.
And now we find ourselves in a really unique situation, because I think our brothers and sisters in America are finding out that it’s much easier for them to change presidents in other countries than to change the president in their own country.
But this moment is one where we also have to recognize how much of time we have lost in the last four years as a result on climate, on inequality, on poverty alleviation and so on, as a result of the Trump administration. So, this is a relief, but it is not something for us to — at this stage, anyway — celebrate with any great enthusiasm.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Kumi, as you mentioned, Trump has not only refused to concede defeat, he has also, in the last week, instituted a massive reshuffle in parts of the security establishment, most notably firing the secretary of defense, Mark Esper. The New York Times has reported that some administration officials have said that the CIA Director Gina Haspel might be the next to go. And there have been remarks, in all kinds of quarters, about the fact that if this were happening in any other country in the world, there would be outrage, and people would say that it is Trump attempting a coup d’état. Could you respond to that?
KUMI NAIDOO: Well, firstly, it’s clear that Trump is attempting a coup d’état. He’s trying to do it through courts and malicious lies and deceit. And it’s shocking that the Republican Party establishment is standing by.
But let’s be very clear that this doesn’t come as a shock to us, because the United States administration, against the wishes of their own people, often have a foreign policy and approach to these things as “Do as we tell you to do; do not do as we do,” because — I mean, let me give you another example. Imagine a country in Africa, like in Georgia — let’s go back to the governor’s race, where the candidate for governor is also the person responsible for running the elections, as you have in many states in the U.S. where these are political party appointments. That would be completely unacceptable, right? That needs to change in the United States.
Secondly, the fact that you have an electoral system that will have 7 million more people voting for one candidate than the other, but technically that the minority candidate wins. So, essentially, the way I look at it, coming from South Africa, you almost have the potential, very easily, for minority rule in the U.S. And I think the Electoral College, for example, is not understood not only by people around the world, it’s not really understood by the United dates. What was a device put in place centuries ago clearly is inappropriate. And those are the kinds of changes — the absolute hypocrisy that we are seeing. And yeah, we have to be fair. We have to be fair that some of these inconsistencies were not [inaudible] Republican administrations. These inconsistencies, we’ve seen by both Republican and Democratic establishment administrations over a long time.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Kumi, can we talk now a little about what Africa’s response — how Africa — many countries in Africa have responded much better than the rest of the world, and certainly than the U.S., to the pandemic, and the fact that Trump, of course, has not — the U.S. has not yet joined COVAX, the COVID-19 Vaccines Global Access Facility, which would work towards making the vaccine accessible to countries all across the world? Biden has, of course, said he will join the World Health Organization, not pull out. So, could you talk about that? First of all, what is the situation of the coronavirus in South Africa, but also more broadly, and how well the countries in Africa have dealt with the pandemic? And then the question of vaccine access.
KUMI NAIDOO: Thank you, Nermeen. If I might be permitted a comment on coronavirus in the United States and how it’s been handled, I think, first, we should say, as Africans, we are horrified at the lack of respect for human life, the fact that the biggest superspreader of this virus has been the president of the United States by irresponsibly holding rallies that violated the CDC guidelines left, right and center. And given the resources that the United States has, it should have been doing significantly better, with appropriate political leadership, than we have been doing in Africa.
So, let me tell you, yesterday in South Africa, President Ramaphosa went on television to warn our country and our people that we are still in serious times, the pandemic is still serious, we need to address it, and so on. And guess what our situation is in South Africa. We have a daily infection rate of 2,000 people per day, and we have a death rate of less than 50 a day, and declining. The hospitalizations and death rates are declining. But yet, our president goes on television and says we need to be vigilant, we need to wear masks, we need to social distance, we need to continue to treat this as a real threat.
I think if ever people wanted to get a sense about who President Trump — what he really cares about, it’s all really about himself. How the American people cannot see it sometimes is shocking to us, because, clearly, the way he has treated the coronavirus is close to criminal. In fact, I would argue, if I was a citizen of the United States, I would be pushing for President Trump to have been impeached as a result of the response to the coronavirus. It’s close to a crime against humanity.
But when we look at it in Africa, let me just say, we are anxious — right? — because we are dependent, in many parts of the continent, on tourism, on trade, and so on, for people’s livelihoods. And so long as the U.S. and Europe doesn’t get its act together and doesn’t get this pandemic under control, it means that normal economic activity will never be able to take place — for example, tourism and so on, which has huge impacts on many African economies. So, we are concerned.
Let me just say one thing, though. It’s very interesting, to pick up on your report here where you say Bolsonaro in Brazil, second-worst country after the United States. U.K. — Boris Johnson, another close buddy of Donald Trump — is the worst country in Europe per capita. Modi is doing terribly in India, and so on. And it’s very interesting to see a lot of these leaders who are authoritarian, fascist-like, and so on, are the ones that are showing that they will respond with the least care of their own citizens.
And I think it is important for us to note that women are suffering disproportionately as a result of this virus, because of the nature of the work, nurses and so on, but it’s also important to note that the countries that have done best in responding to the coronavirus, most of them are all led by women. And I think there is a lesson in that about how important it is for us to have much more equity in terms of gender in our leadership in all levels, in all countries, in all institutions.
AMY GOODMAN: Finally, Kumi — and, of course, we’re going to come back to you on issues of the Green New Deal, on issues of Biden saying he will immediately rejoin the U.N. climate summit, but I just want to ask: Why does who is president of the United States matter so much to the rest of the world?
KUMI NAIDOO: Well, if I might say that Julius Nyerere, the Tanzanian president that led us to liberation in Tanzania, once said, when we look at the United States, it’s weird to look at this country, because we have, seemingly, two parties, which generally advance the interests of big business and big capital. And he actually went on to say, “The United States is a one-party state, but with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.”
Now, in the current moment, we have been watching carefully — right? — because it’s easy for us to be triumphalistic and euphoric about President-elect Joe Biden because the incumbent is such a disastrous reality, but we will be vigilant, from our perspective, in recognizing that hopefully President Biden is in power by 20th of January — we would give fair notice that we will not — we will not be making an assumption that everything is going to get better. We expect things will improve, but it cannot but improve from the low bar that Donald Trump set.
It’s not a question of now whether things just improve. The United States has an obligation to the world to ensure that the four years we’ve lost under Trump, and many, many more years that we lost on climate action by previous administrations — there is catch-up to do. And we expect the next president of the United States to recognize that the United States has let the world down, has dragged their feet and has put the entire world, including the United States, at risk from climate, and therefore we would expect from this new administration not simply an improvement and not simply rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic while humanity sinks, but serious structural and systemic change that addresses the challenge of climate change.
AMY GOODMAN: Kumi Naidoo, we want to thank you for being with us, global ambassador for Africans Rising for Justice, Peace and Dignity, lifelong South African human rights activist and climate justice activist.
When we come back, we go to Istanbul, Turkey, and then to the U.K., for response to this historic U.S. election. Stay with us.