democracynow--2020-12-11--Palestinian Official Hanan Ashrawi: Trump's Morocco-Israel Deal Legitimizes Land Theft & Occupation

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : Morocco and Israel have agreed to establish diplomatic relations as part of a U.S.-brokered deal .
Morocco is the fourth Arab nation to establish ties with Israel since August .
As part of the deal , the United States agreed to become the first country in the world to recognize Morocco ’ s sovereignty over occupied Western Sahara — what many consider to be Africa ’ s last colony .
It ’ s due to open a consulate in the occupied city @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , if any , U.S. citizens .
Morocco has occupied much of the resource-rich territory since 1975 in defiance of the United Nations and the international community .
Thousands of Sahrawis have been tortured , imprisoned , killed and disappeared while resisting the Moroccan occupation .
Following Morocco ’ s invasion in 1975 , about half of the Sahrawi population fled to neighboring Algeria , where they have lived for the past 45 years in refugee camps in the middle of the desert .
The deals come less than a month after a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
In November , the Moroccan military broke into a no-go buffer zone in southern Western Sahara to attack Sahrawi civilians blocking off a Morocco-built road and exchanged fire with the Polisario Front , the Sahrawi liberation movement seeking independence .
Morocco has since intensified its repression in occupied Western Sahara , raiding and laying siege to the homes of pro-independence activists and journalists , arresting dozens of people and cracking down on protests .
Human rights groups criticized the U.S.-Morocco-Israel deal , which was announced on International Human Rights Day .
In @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Vermont said , quote , “ After losing his own bid for re-election , President Trump can not by 'proclamation ' negate international law or the rights of the people of Western Sahara .
They are entitled to what they have long been promised — a free and fair vote on self-determination.
” In 1991 , the United Nations promised Sahrawis a referendum on self-determination as part of a ceasefire deal , but Morocco has blocked the referendum from happening .
Bassam al-Salhi of the Palestine Liberation Organization also condemned Morocco for joining @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Emirates in establishing ties with Israel despite the ongoing occupation of the West Bank and Gaza .
He said the deal is unacceptable and warned it will embolden , quote , “ Israel ’ s belligerence and its denial of the Palestinian people ’ s rights.
” We ’ re joined right now by Hanan Ashrawi , the longtime Palestinian diplomat and scholar .
She recently resigned her position as executive committee member of the Palestine Liberation Organization .
She was the first woman to hold a seat in the highest executive body @ @ @ @ @ @ @ us right now from the West Bank .
We welcome you to Democracy Now !
It ’ s great to have you with us .
If you can start off by talking about the Morocco-Israel part of this deal ?
Hanan Ashrawi , it ’ s great to have you with us .
HANAN ASHRAWI : Thank you .
It ’ s good to be with you , Amy .
I can ’ t hear you .
AMY GOODMAN : So , if you can start off by talking about Morocco ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ means for the Palestinians ?
HANAN ASHRAWI : Well , this is part of a whole pattern of behavior , a process whereby the U.S. — the Trump administration — I don ’ t want to say “ the U.S. ” — has been acting as the errand boy for Israel in order to try to get as many victories , as many benefits , as many privileges for Israel .
And right now it ’ s rushing like mad in a race against time before they leave office , in order to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Arab world and to deliver Palestine to Israel and to legalize or legitimize the occupation of Palestine and the land theft of Palestine and the escalation — and , sorry , annexation of land , as well as the building of settlements and so on .
So , this pattern , in many ways , utilized very — not just illegal , but cruel means .
I said it ’ s between bribery and blackmail .
And it uses the weak spots in different countries and the needs of different countries in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Israel and extract concessions for Israel .
Now , look at the UAE .
Look at Bahrain , who ’ s also normalized with Israel and is in trouble .
Look at now Morocco .
Now , the instability in many different countries — look at Sudan , of course , which is another tragic case — was exploited , and the weakness of and the needs of certain regimes and rulers were also exploited , in order to extract these privileges and so on for Israel and reposition it as a major @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it a free hand and to enable it to be part of what they call the Sunni moderate bloc in facing Iran and the Shia .
Now , with Morocco , it ’ s different from the issue of Sudan and the Gulf countries , because Sudan , of course , needed to be removed off the terrorist list and needed the blockade to be lifted .
Morocco wanted the U.S. to recognize and accept its control and its annexation — control over and annexation of the Western Sahara .
And different countries @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so on , do not recognize Moroccan control or annexation of the Western Sahara .
Neither did the U.S .
This is a change in U.S. policy , and it ’ s a violation of U.N. resolutions that granted the Sahrawis , the Western Sahara , self-determination — in the same way as the Palestinians are every year told that they have the right to self-determination .
But with the implementation , we never get it .
So this has created , again , a situation of quid pro quo , where the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of other countries in order to bring them to normalize with Israel and in order to break Arab ranks , to destroy the Arab Peace Initiative , to violate successive Arab resolutions and to place Israel in the heart of the region as a major economic , military , security power .
Now , Morocco , grantedly — there ’ s an article in The New York Times , I think , today — has been cooperating secretly — the Moroccan regime ; I don ’ t want to say the people , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ most supportive of the Palestinian cause , and they ’ re extremely patriotic and extremely — they identify with Palestine .
So , they ’ re very unhappy with what ’ s happening .
They ’ re very unhappy with the normalization with Israel .
And they know that normalizing with Israel means normalizing the occupation , means normalizing lawlessness .
It means that they are giving Israel a free hand to continue with its policies against Palestine .
And we are seeing how , in these last days of the Trump administration @ @ @ @ @ @ @ settlement activities , its home demolition of the Palestinian people , its superimposing and apartheid system now totally on the West Bank , in particular , and its illegal annexation of Jerusalem , and creating rings of settlements to isolate Jerusalem and to fragment the West Bank , knowing that it has the blessings of this U.S. administration and knowing full well that destroys any chances of peace , in the same way as it destroys the chance of having a viable , territorially contiguant Palestinian state .
AMY GOODMAN : So , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Ashrawi , to have Bahrain , Sudan , the United Arab Emirates and Morocco recognize Israel ?
How does that change things on the ground for Gaza and the West Bank ?
HANAN ASHRAWI : It just emboldens Israel even further .
It ’ s not a question of recognition or making peace , as the Trump administration claims .
There was no war .
I mean , they don ’ t share borders with Israel .
They ’ ve never had a war with Israel , neither Morocco nor the Emirates nor @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a sense , what they ’ re doing is looking for anyplace where they can make peace or where they can have agreements and normalization , as they say , in order to say they made peace , and you see the Palestinian question is not central and is not a prerequisite to peace , and the Arab Peace Initiative is no longer applicable , and that Israel can have all the fruits of what is called peace and normalization without having to pay its dues in terms of compliance with international law @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , does weaken the Palestinian position .
The U.S. administration has taken several unilateral and illegal steps in order to bash the Palestinians into submission , and it failed .
And it says , you know , now it ’ s very clear that they have fragmented the Arab position .
They have created and enhanced fault lines within the region .
They are supporting a sort of artificial polarization .
And they are creating further rifts between the people and their leadership .
And they are supporting more autocratic or despotic regimes @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Trump administration has been acting like one , and outside the law , so to speak .
So , now , of course , the Palestinians know that this weakens their hand .
They know that this , in many ways , undermines the Arab unanimous support for the Palestinian cause .
The regimes themselves may have taken such self-serving and illegal positions , but the people , the Arab people as a whole , remain committed and remain supportive of the Palestinian cause .
Now , Israel feels that it is not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ can do whatever it wants , but it has partners in crimes .
First it was the American administration that entered into collusion or complicity with the U.S. administration and with Israel — with Israel .
Now it is bringing , dragging Arab countries or Arab leaders in order to do the same .
And it went so far as the Emiratis have been signing agreements with the settlers and with the settler business groups .
And we keep reminding people settlements are illegal .
They are a war crime , according to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And anybody who cooperates or supports or aids and abets a war crime can be held accountable , as well .
But they ’ re moving so fast , and they ’ re creating situations that are so volatile , I think , that they will introduce more instability in the region .
It is an abnormal situation .
It is a result of specific needs , was the need for Netanyahu to be able to get reelected .
It was the need for Trump to say he ’ s a peacemaker before @ @ @ @ @ @ @ question of fulfilling requirements in order to appeal to his constituency , whether it is the extreme-right-wing Zionist evangelicals or whether it is the pro-Israel lobby or whether it is his funders , like Sheldon Adelson and others .
This has become a pattern that is very disruptive , that is illegal in many ways , and that has placed the U.S. outside the realm of peacemaking or recognition of and adherence to international law and U.N. resolutions .
AMY GOODMAN : Hanan Ashrawi , can you address why you stepped down from @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
HANAN ASHRAWI : OK. Well , I did issue a statement , and I did speak out , but it ’ s a question of actually fulfilling not just a promise , but a pledge .
It is practicing what you preach , in many ways , in the sense that I believe it is time for the PLO to be reformed , for the institutions to be rejuvenated , for the democratic process to take place , to have elections and to elect new leadership , particularly young men and women @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , of course , to respect our institutions and their role .
There have been several instances and issues , which I don ’ t want to discuss , I mean , right now , but I did discuss them with the president , that I felt have weakened and undermined the standing of the PLO and our decision-making , and continued the rift , which was not in our benefit , and it had weakened the Palestinian position internationally and in terms of standing up to Israeli violations .
So , there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , but I feel it ’ s time .
And I ’ ve been trying to leave for some time now .
And I wanted to practice what we call the graceful exit , in order to make room for others .
And perhaps this will trigger others or trigger more reform or trigger the meeting of the institutions of the PLO in order to elect a new leadership .
And we do need elections and a genuine revitalization of the system and an exercise of democracy .
AMY GOODMAN : Finally , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ pandemic , COVID-19 , in the Occupied Territories ?
You tested positive for COVID .
You have Saeb Erekat , the chief PLO negotiator , who died of COVID .
Can you talk about the situation and how you recovered ?
HANAN ASHRAWI : Certainly .
It ’ s really drastic .
It ’ s extremely dangerous .
We have lockdowns every weekend , but that ’ s not enough .
There is no movement between different districts and so on , but the situation is rapidly threatening to get out of control @ @ @ @ @ @ @ t know [ inaudible ] still has any vaccine or medicine .
But the thing is , we are under occupation .
We do not control our borders , our crossing points , entrance and exit .
Israel controls everything .
And as such , in many cases , people who come in or go out and so on are subject to Israeli control and what Israel does and says , and therefore we were unable to control our borders , and the workers who go to Israel or Palestinians from Israel who @ @ @ @ @ @ @ occasions , because we are one people , the indigenous Palestinians in Israel — we call them the ’ 48 Palestinians .
So it has created a situation where there is really no control .
And we don ’ t have a health system , despite the fact that we have very qualified doctors and a minister of health that has been working extremely hard to try to control it .
It did at first .
It acted quickly .
It controlled the situation .
And then , with the second wave , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ re going through the third wave , where every day we have more than 2,000 cases and we have deaths by the scores , which , given the number of people we have , is a very high ratio .
And we don ’ t have enough health facilities , the hospitals , and even the swabs , the needed treatment , medicine .
So — AMY GOODMAN : So , let me ask you , then — the prime minister , Benjamin Netanyahu , says he will be the very first @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to be injected with one .
What will happen to the Palestinians ?
What kind of access will you have ?
HANAN ASHRAWI : What kind of what ?
Sorry .
AMY GOODMAN : Access to vaccines will you have ?
HANAN ASHRAWI : Yeah , well , the president has been talking to many different countries .
And every time he addresses a leader of a country , like Russia and other places , he does ask for the vaccine .
And the Ministry of Health has been in touch with the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this vaccine .
So , we have to get it ourselves , and we have to pay for it .
But at the same time , we ’ re addressing other countries to be able to help in terms of acquiring the necessary vaccines .
We don ’ t expect to get them soon .
We don ’ t have the means to buy enough for the whole population .
So , I think there will be several countries that have volunteered to help , to assist , but it means we ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be able to get it .
And the fact that it is becoming more prevalent , it is spreading quite rapidly .
I was talking to the minister of health , Dr. Mai .
She ’ s quite a hard-working , excellent health practitioner .
And she told me that they ’ re desperately trying to get enough , and she ’ s in touch with many different sources .
And we hope , through the WHO and others , there will be help .
But they ’ re worried that if we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ hospitals and the ICU facilities will not be enough to take care of them .
We do have good and qualified health service providers , and we trust them , but at the same time we don ’ t know if they can cope with the scope of the spread of the COVID-19 in Palestine .
AMY GOODMAN : Dr. Hanan Ashrawi , I want to thank you for being with us , Palestinian diplomat , scholar , recently resigned her position as executive committee member of the Palestine Liberation Organization , the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the highest executive body in Palestine , also served as the official spokesperson of the Palestinian delegation to the Middle East peace process .
She herself had COVID and now has recovered .
When we come back , we go from the Israel-Morocco alliance to the U.S.-Morocco alliance , to the U.S. acknowledging — to the U.S. recognizing the sovereignty of Morocco over Western Sahara , the first country in the world to do so .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Morocco and Israel have agreed to establish diplomatic relations as part of a U.S.-brokered deal. Morocco is the fourth Arab nation to establish ties with Israel since August. As part of the deal, the United States agreed to become the first country in the world to recognize Morocco’s sovereignty over occupied Western Sahara — what many consider to be Africa’s last colony. It’s due to open a consulate in the occupied city of Dakhla, where there are few, if any, U.S. citizens.
Morocco has occupied much of the resource-rich territory since 1975 in defiance of the United Nations and the international community. Thousands of Sahrawis have been tortured, imprisoned, killed and disappeared while resisting the Moroccan occupation. Following Morocco’s invasion in 1975, about half of the Sahrawi population fled to neighboring Algeria, where they have lived for the past 45 years in refugee camps in the middle of the desert.
The deals come less than a month after a nearly three-decade-old ceasefire ended in Western Sahara. In November, the Moroccan military broke into a no-go buffer zone in southern Western Sahara to attack Sahrawi civilians blocking off a Morocco-built road and exchanged fire with the Polisario Front, the Sahrawi liberation movement seeking independence. Morocco has since intensified its repression in occupied Western Sahara, raiding and laying siege to the homes of pro-independence activists and journalists, arresting dozens of people and cracking down on protests.
Human rights groups criticized the U.S.-Morocco-Israel deal, which was announced on International Human Rights Day. In Washington, Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont said, quote, “After losing his own bid for re-election, President Trump cannot by 'proclamation' negate international law or the rights of the people of Western Sahara. They are entitled to what they have long been promised — a free and fair vote on self-determination.” In 1991, the United Nations promised Sahrawis a referendum on self-determination as part of a ceasefire deal, but Morocco has blocked the referendum from happening.
Bassam al-Salhi of the Palestine Liberation Organization also condemned Morocco for joining Bahrain, Sudan and the United Arab Emirates in establishing ties with Israel despite the ongoing occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. He said the deal is unacceptable and warned it will embolden, quote, “Israel’s belligerence and its denial of the Palestinian people’s rights.”
We’re joined right now by Hanan Ashrawi, the longtime Palestinian diplomat and scholar. She recently resigned her position as executive committee member of the Palestine Liberation Organization. She was the first woman to hold a seat in the highest executive body in Palestine. She’s joining us right now from the West Bank.
We welcome you to Democracy Now! It’s great to have you with us. If you can start off by talking about the Morocco-Israel part of this deal? Hanan Ashrawi, it’s great to have you with us.
HANAN ASHRAWI: Thank you. It’s good to be with you, Amy. I can’t hear you.
AMY GOODMAN: So, if you can start off by talking about Morocco’s recognition of Israel, and what this means for the Palestinians?
HANAN ASHRAWI: Well, this is part of a whole pattern of behavior, a process whereby the U.S. — the Trump administration — I don’t want to say “the U.S.” — has been acting as the errand boy for Israel in order to try to get as many victories, as many benefits, as many privileges for Israel. And right now it’s rushing like mad in a race against time before they leave office, in order to reposition Israel, to normalize relations with the Arab world and to deliver Palestine to Israel and to legalize or legitimize the occupation of Palestine and the land theft of Palestine and the escalation — and, sorry, annexation of land, as well as the building of settlements and so on.
So, this pattern, in many ways, utilized very — not just illegal, but cruel means. I said it’s between bribery and blackmail. And it uses the weak spots in different countries and the needs of different countries in order to supply them on behalf of Israel and extract concessions for Israel. Now, look at the UAE. Look at Bahrain, who’s also normalized with Israel and is in trouble. Look at now Morocco. Now, the instability in many different countries — look at Sudan, of course, which is another tragic case — was exploited, and the weakness of and the needs of certain regimes and rulers were also exploited, in order to extract these privileges and so on for Israel and reposition it as a major power in the region and to give it a free hand and to enable it to be part of what they call the Sunni moderate bloc in facing Iran and the Shia.
Now, with Morocco, it’s different from the issue of Sudan and the Gulf countries, because Sudan, of course, needed to be removed off the terrorist list and needed the blockade to be lifted. Morocco wanted the U.S. to recognize and accept its control and its annexation — control over and annexation of the Western Sahara. And different countries in the world, the U.N. and so on, do not recognize Moroccan control or annexation of the Western Sahara. Neither did the U.S. This is a change in U.S. policy, and it’s a violation of U.N. resolutions that granted the Sahrawis, the Western Sahara, self-determination — in the same way as the Palestinians are every year told that they have the right to self-determination. But with the implementation, we never get it. So this has created, again, a situation of quid pro quo, where the U.S. exploits the weakness or the avarice of other countries in order to bring them to normalize with Israel and in order to break Arab ranks, to destroy the Arab Peace Initiative, to violate successive Arab resolutions and to place Israel in the heart of the region as a major economic, military, security power.
Now, Morocco, grantedly — there’s an article in The New York Times, I think, today — has been cooperating secretly — the Moroccan regime; I don’t want to say the people, because the Moroccan people are among the most supportive of the Palestinian cause, and they’re extremely patriotic and extremely — they identify with Palestine. So, they’re very unhappy with what’s happening. They’re very unhappy with the normalization with Israel. And they know that normalizing with Israel means normalizing the occupation, means normalizing lawlessness. It means that they are giving Israel a free hand to continue with its policies against Palestine.
And we are seeing how, in these last days of the Trump administration, Israel has escalated and intensified its settlement activities, its home demolition of the Palestinian people, its superimposing and apartheid system now totally on the West Bank, in particular, and its illegal annexation of Jerusalem, and creating rings of settlements to isolate Jerusalem and to fragment the West Bank, knowing that it has the blessings of this U.S. administration and knowing full well that destroys any chances of peace, in the same way as it destroys the chance of having a viable, territorially contiguant Palestinian state.
AMY GOODMAN: So, what exactly does it mean, Hanan Ashrawi, to have Bahrain, Sudan, the United Arab Emirates and Morocco recognize Israel? How does that change things on the ground for Gaza and the West Bank?
HANAN ASHRAWI: It just emboldens Israel even further. It’s not a question of recognition or making peace, as the Trump administration claims. There was no war. I mean, they don’t share borders with Israel. They’ve never had a war with Israel, neither Morocco nor the Emirates nor Bahrain nor Sudan. So, in a sense, what they’re doing is looking for anyplace where they can make peace or where they can have agreements and normalization, as they say, in order to say they made peace, and you see the Palestinian question is not central and is not a prerequisite to peace, and the Arab Peace Initiative is no longer applicable, and that Israel can have all the fruits of what is called peace and normalization without having to pay its dues in terms of compliance with international law.
So, this, of course, does weaken the Palestinian position. The U.S. administration has taken several unilateral and illegal steps in order to bash the Palestinians into submission, and it failed. And it says, you know, now it’s very clear that they have fragmented the Arab position. They have created and enhanced fault lines within the region. They are supporting a sort of artificial polarization. And they are creating further rifts between the people and their leadership. And they are supporting more autocratic or despotic regimes. And we think that Trump and Trump administration has been acting like one, and outside the law, so to speak. So, now, of course, the Palestinians know that this weakens their hand. They know that this, in many ways, undermines the Arab unanimous support for the Palestinian cause. The regimes themselves may have taken such self-serving and illegal positions, but the people, the Arab people as a whole, remain committed and remain supportive of the Palestinian cause.
Now, Israel feels that it is not only above the law, that it can do whatever it wants, but it has partners in crimes. First it was the American administration that entered into collusion or complicity with the U.S. administration and with Israel — with Israel. Now it is bringing, dragging Arab countries or Arab leaders in order to do the same. And it went so far as the Emiratis have been signing agreements with the settlers and with the settler business groups. And we keep reminding people settlements are illegal. They are a war crime, according to their own statute and the ICC. And anybody who cooperates or supports or aids and abets a war crime can be held accountable, as well. But they’re moving so fast, and they’re creating situations that are so volatile, I think, that they will introduce more instability in the region.
It is an abnormal situation. It is a result of specific needs, was the need for Netanyahu to be able to get reelected. It was the need for Trump to say he’s a peacemaker before November. Now it’s a question of fulfilling requirements in order to appeal to his constituency, whether it is the extreme-right-wing Zionist evangelicals or whether it is the pro-Israel lobby or whether it is his funders, like Sheldon Adelson and others. This has become a pattern that is very disruptive, that is illegal in many ways, and that has placed the U.S. outside the realm of peacemaking or recognition of and adherence to international law and U.N. resolutions.
AMY GOODMAN: Hanan Ashrawi, can you address why you stepped down from the PLO leadership? Explain your decision.
HANAN ASHRAWI: OK. Well, I did issue a statement, and I did speak out, but it’s a question of actually fulfilling not just a promise, but a pledge. It is practicing what you preach, in many ways, in the sense that I believe it is time for the PLO to be reformed, for the institutions to be rejuvenated, for the democratic process to take place, to have elections and to elect new leadership, particularly young men and women, and to reform the system and, of course, to respect our institutions and their role.
There have been several instances and issues, which I don’t want to discuss, I mean, right now, but I did discuss them with the president, that I felt have weakened and undermined the standing of the PLO and our decision-making, and continued the rift, which was not in our benefit, and it had weakened the Palestinian position internationally and in terms of standing up to Israeli violations.
So, there’s a long list of things, but I feel it’s time. And I’ve been trying to leave for some time now. And I wanted to practice what we call the graceful exit, in order to make room for others. And perhaps this will trigger others or trigger more reform or trigger the meeting of the institutions of the PLO in order to elect a new leadership. And we do need elections and a genuine revitalization of the system and an exercise of democracy.
AMY GOODMAN: Finally, can you address the issue of the pandemic, COVID-19, in the Occupied Territories? You tested positive for COVID. You have Saeb Erekat, the chief PLO negotiator, who died of COVID. Can you talk about the situation and how you recovered?
HANAN ASHRAWI: Certainly. It’s really drastic. It’s extremely dangerous. We have lockdowns every weekend, but that’s not enough. There is no movement between different districts and so on, but the situation is rapidly threatening to get out of control. And actually, we don’t know [inaudible] still has any vaccine or medicine.
But the thing is, we are under occupation. We do not control our borders, our crossing points, entrance and exit. Israel controls everything. And as such, in many cases, people who come in or go out and so on are subject to Israeli control and what Israel does and says, and therefore we were unable to control our borders, and the workers who go to Israel or Palestinians from Israel who come to visit families and have social occasions, because we are one people, the indigenous Palestinians in Israel — we call them the ’48 Palestinians. So it has created a situation where there is really no control.
And we don’t have a health system, despite the fact that we have very qualified doctors and a minister of health that has been working extremely hard to try to control it. It did at first. It acted quickly. It controlled the situation. And then, with the second wave, it became worse. And now we’re going through the third wave, where every day we have more than 2,000 cases and we have deaths by the scores, which, given the number of people we have, is a very high ratio. And we don’t have enough health facilities, the hospitals, and even the swabs, the needed treatment, medicine. So —
AMY GOODMAN: So, let me ask you, then — the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, says he will be the very first person to get a COVID vaccine, to be injected with one. What will happen to the Palestinians? What kind of access will you have?
HANAN ASHRAWI: What kind of what? Sorry.
AMY GOODMAN: Access to vaccines will you have?
HANAN ASHRAWI: Yeah, well, the president has been talking to many different countries. And every time he addresses a leader of a country, like Russia and other places, he does ask for the vaccine. And the Ministry of Health has been in touch with the pharmaceutical companies that are producing, manufacturing this vaccine. So, we have to get it ourselves, and we have to pay for it. But at the same time, we’re addressing other countries to be able to help in terms of acquiring the necessary vaccines. We don’t expect to get them soon. We don’t have the means to buy enough for the whole population. So, I think there will be several countries that have volunteered to help, to assist, but it means we’ll have to wait a while to be able to get it. And the fact that it is becoming more prevalent, it is spreading quite rapidly.
I was talking to the minister of health, Dr. Mai. She’s quite a hard-working, excellent health practitioner. And she told me that they’re desperately trying to get enough, and she’s in touch with many different sources. And we hope, through the WHO and others, there will be help. But they’re worried that if we do not get it quickly, the hospitals and the ICU facilities will not be enough to take care of them. We do have good and qualified health service providers, and we trust them, but at the same time we don’t know if they can cope with the scope of the spread of the COVID-19 in Palestine.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Hanan Ashrawi, I want to thank you for being with us, Palestinian diplomat, scholar, recently resigned her position as executive committee member of the Palestine Liberation Organization, the first woman to hold a seat in the highest executive body in Palestine, also served as the official spokesperson of the Palestinian delegation to the Middle East peace process. She herself had COVID and now has recovered.
When we come back, we go from the Israel-Morocco alliance to the U.S.-Morocco alliance, to the U.S. acknowledging — to the U.S. recognizing the sovereignty of Morocco over Western Sahara, the first country in the world to do so. Stay with us.


democracynow--2020-12-11--Headlines for December 11, 2020

Headlines for December 11, 2020

On Thursday , the U.S. recorded another staggering toll from COVID-19 , with over 224,000 new infections and nearly 3,000 @ @ @ @ @ director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention , warned that for the next @ @ @ @ @ U.S. will likely see more COVID-19 deaths per day than the number of people killed @ @ @ @ @ .
Dr. Robert Redfield : “ It ’ s also very sobering to realize in @ @ @ @ @ COVID-19 now is the leading cause of death , surpassing heart disease.
” Meanwhile , @ @ @ @ @ earlier this week she was instructed by CDC Director Robert Redfield to delete an email @ @ @ @ @ sought to alter a scientific report on the risks of COVID-19 to children , in @ @ @ @ @ ’ s messaging on reopening schools .

On Thursday, the U.S. recorded another staggering toll from COVID-19, with over 224,000 new infections and nearly 3,000 deaths. Robert Redfield, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, warned that for the next 60 to 90 days the U.S. will likely see more COVID-19 deaths per day than the number of people killed in the September 11 attacks.
Dr. Robert Redfield: “It’s also very sobering to realize in the United States today that COVID-19 now is the leading cause of death, surpassing heart disease.”
Meanwhile, a CDC official told lawmakers earlier this week she was instructed by CDC Director Robert Redfield to delete an email from the Trump administration which sought to alter a scientific report on the risks of COVID-19 to children, in order to better match Trump’s messaging on reopening schools.


democracynow--2020-12-14--Shut It Down: Calls Grow to Close Fort Hood After Probe into Murders & Sexual Assaults at Army Base

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
The U.S. Army has fired or suspended 14 officers , including a general , stationed at Fort Hood , Texas , after an investigation into sexual assaults and murders at the Army ’ s largest base found they ’ re , quote , “ directly related to leadership failures.
” Congress launched the probe in part due to pressure from the family of 20-year-old @ @ @ @ @ @ @ harassed at the base before she was bludgeoned to death .
Vanessa went missing in April .
Her remains were only found in July , when her family traveled to Washington to talk to Congress .
Her sister , Mayra Guillén , responded to news of the firings last week .
AMY GOODMAN : A panel of five independent investigators spent several weeks at Fort Hood and found a widespread pattern of violence , including murder , sexual assault and harassment .
They also collected more than 31,000 responses to a survey on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ women were afraid to report abuse because previous cases went unpunished .
This is panel member Carrie Ricci speaking to reporters last Tuesday .
AMY GOODMAN : A proposed bill before Congress called the I Am Vanessa Guillén Act would transform military sexual misconduct inquiries .
This comes as veterans ’ groups are joining calls to fire the Veterans Affairs Secretary Robert Wilkie , after an inspector general ’ s report found he tried to smear a woman who filed a complaint of sexual assault at a VA hospital .
Well , for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Pam Campos-Palma , the senior political strategist and head of the Vets for the People project at Working Families Party , an Air Force veteran herself .
Pam , welcome back to Democracy Now !
Explain what happened last week .
Who are these 14 people who have been fired or suspended ?
PAM CAMPOS-PALMA : Thanks for having me back .
We don ’ t really know .
I mean , Fort Hood , it ’ s — last week was an explosive moment where , really , what was exposed in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ veterans , countless military members have been saying for years , frankly .
Fort Hood has been known as a less-than-desirable duty station because of these major problems of violent crime .
And it ’ s clear that the base continues to be a clear danger to anyone that serves , works , lives on or off that post .
But really importantly , when they say 14 leaders were fired and suspended , they ’ ve only released a few names .
And it ’ s really important that we continue to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be an opportunity to tell the world , “ If you have more rank , you have more responsibility , ” or this could be another par-for-the-course scapegoating of junior officers and enlisted .
And importantly , what does “ fired ” even mean ?
Are they fired from Fort Hood ?
Are they fired from the Army ?
Does this mean a court-martial ?
Do they get to retire with military benefits at their rank ?
And so , while the report is a good first step , like the Guillén family @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to be seen .
AMY GOODMAN : So , for people who aren ’ t familiar with the case of Vanessa Guillén — I mean , even how her body was found , what happened to her , complaints before she died — can you just take us through that , Pam ?
PAM CAMPOS-PALMA : Sure , of course .
I vividly remember when Vanessa Guillén was missing .
So , really importantly is not to forget that the reason that any action was really taken , in my view , is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a working-class Latina , who does not speak English , took the Army on when her daughter was missing .
And in the report , it should be noted , there was a section on the fact that there really isn ’ t strong protocols around AWOL soldiers .
But Vanessa Guillén went missing .
She had told her mother that she was being sexually harassed by a superior-ranking person .
The Army negated that .
They undermined the Guilléns in saying that there was proof that her daughter — their daughter , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in fact being sexually harassed , which is the crux of the report , which is why you hear Ms. Ricci saying people just want to be believed .
Vanessa Guillén was not believed .
And then her body was found , you know , to most of the community ’ s deep grief .
Her body was found off base , really importantly .
Vanessa Guillén was murdered on Fort Hood .
Her property , her keys , her cellphone were found on the base .
And so , the biggest question @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Army ’ s accountability , the Department of Defense accountability , for keeping our soldiers safe ?
And Vanessa Guillén is only one of many .
There actually have been 30 — around 30 soldiers who have been dead from noncombat injuries at Fort Hood , which is why there has been a nationwide movement of public pressure to make sure that there is accountability .
And really importantly , what I think is often lost is it took women , women military members and veterans , early on , saying that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ shutdown of the base , particularly Latinas , who are the highest-growing population , enlistment population .
And so , it has been months of pressure , of really asking : Where is Congress , where is Army leadership accounting for these systemic failures that have happened for decades ?
AMY GOODMAN : And can you talk about the I Am Vanessa Guillén bill in Congress , what exactly that calls for , who ’ s fighting against it ?
PAM CAMPOS-PALMA : Yeah .
I mean , the I Am Vanessa Guillén @ @ @ @ @ @ @ advocates ’ pleas for years .
So , one important thing is , this isn ’ t news .
This isn ’ t news to Congress .
It ’ s not news to the DOD .
The I Am Vanessa Guillén bill , most importantly , is demanding that the military can not investigate itself .
The I Am Vanessa Guillén bill most assertively says you must take this out of the hands of the DOD .
There must be an independent means for investigating these kinds of criminality , these kinds of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Vanessa Guillén bill seeks to codify what is assault , what is harassment .
The ugly truth is that rape culture is military culture .
Military training for many years in this traditional insular institution has really hearkened on training that invokes racism and sexism .
And that culture is not unique to Fort Hood .
And so , the I Am Vanessa Guillén bill really seeks strong structural transformation and reforms that make this an operational imperative and a national security imperative .
PAM CAMPOS-PALMA : The people — oh , go @ @ @ @ @ @ @ who are fighting about — a better question is : Who ’ s been silent ?
Who doesn ’ t want to take on this fight ?
AMY GOODMAN : Who ?
Who do you think needs to ?
PAM CAMPOS-PALMA : I mean , for me , one of the most glaring parts of the report not to be glossed over is the report says the only community ties that Fort Hood had was with political and business leaders .
So my question is : Where are the representatives that represent Fort @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not just in 2020 , but since 2013 ?
Representative Roger Williams came into office in 2013 .
Representative John Carter has represented that part of Fort Hood for over 20 years .
You know , these are politicians that have served in office at a time where Fort Hood had skyrocketing suicides , sexual assaults , even human trafficking incidents , you know , and mass shootings .
And so , really , the question is : Where are the people that we the people elected to serve us , who have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ corruption on one of the largest bases in the world that lands in their district ?
Another person that I have my eyes on is General Mark Milley .
Our current chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was the base commander of Fort Hood in 2012 to 2014 — again , at a time where Fort Hood was at its all-time highs for sexual assault and an increase in suicides .
So , there are several both military and political leaders who have failed up and who have really done a disservice @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and murder was preventable .
She should be with us now .
And it was this kind of criminal negligence that allowed her abuse and the abuse of other soldiers .
AMY GOODMAN : I mean , her sister Mayra tweeted , after it was announced that these 14 people , including a general , would be suspended or fired , that that is not enough , that she wants people brought up on charges .
And even when they were looking for Vanessa Guillén ’ s body , they found other remains @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Absolutely .
I mean , these are institutional failures at scale .
And by the Army ’ s own admission , and in this report , it ’ s clear that this is not unique to Fort Hood .
Military members on social media have even , after reading the report , said , “ This sounds like something at — this reminds me of Fort Benning , Fort Bragg , ” these other military bases under the Army ’ s purview , where there has been a vast proliferation of systemic sexual @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Too often we talk about military sexual trauma as an occupational hazard .
But the military is dealing with large-scale corruption and crime , and it should be treated as such .
If you are a high-ranking general , you do not get to get off the hook and retire and go teach at the War College .
This is an incredible opportunity for the Department of Defense and for congressional leaders to actually do right , not only by the Guillén family , but by the military and veteran community at large @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are calls for Fort Hood to be closed .
I want to ask you , as you were talking about : Do you support that today ?
I mean , what ?
Something like 30 people have died in the last year , servicemembers connected to Fort Hood , including by homicide , suicide , accident and illness .
Also , should Fort Hood ’ s name be changed ?
You have Trump saying he wants Congress to strip out of the provision — of this massive military bill the provision that allows @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Benning and Fort Hood , after Confederate leaders .
So , should it be closed ?
Should it be renamed ?
PAM CAMPOS-PALMA : Yeah .
We are living in a moment .
Take a look at the bigger picture .
We ’ re living in a moment where there are institutions , whether that ’ s police , ICE or the military , who purport to stand on law and order , and claim accountability , courage and service , only when it suits them .
This is a hypocrisy that is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Hood , which is named after one of the most reckless Confederate generals , who got a lot of his people killed — renaming Fort Hood to Harriet Tubman , let ’ s say , while women and soldiers continue to be raped and abused , is not progress , is not what we need .
And so , I don ’ t believe that just renaming — you know , I actually think that campaigns , marketing campaigns , that say , “ We ’ re taking care of our troops , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are harmful .
And so , absolutely , this report only confirms that Fort Hood is a deep , egregious failure and danger .
It is one of 800 bases .
For me , it must be shut down .
And “ shut down ” means halt all operations on that base at once .
You can not tell your troops and your soldiers , “ We ’ re fixing the problem .
We ’ re going to try to take care of you .
But also we ’ re going to continue @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , yes , real leadership and accountability means halting all operations , shut down Fort Hood .
It is an irredeemable installation .
And this is a moment for actual , concrete change , especially if you claim to support the troops .
AMY GOODMAN : Pam Campos-Palma , I thank you so much for being with us , senior political strategist , head of the Vets for People project at the Working Families Party .
She is an Air Force veteran herself .
And that does it for our show .
A @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Miriam Barnard .
Democracy Now !
is produced with Renée Feltz , Mike Burke , Deena Guzder , Libby Rainey , Nermeen Shaikh , María Taracena , Carla Wills , Tami Woronoff , Charina Nadura , Sam Alcoff , Tey-Marie Astudillo , John Hamilton , Robby Karran , Hany Massoud and Adriano Contreras .
Our general manager , Julie Crosby .
Special thanks to Becca Staley , Denis Moynihan , Paul Powell .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Stay safe .
Wear a mask .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
The U.S. Army has fired or suspended 14 officers, including a general, stationed at Fort Hood, Texas, after an investigation into sexual assaults and murders at the Army’s largest base found they’re, quote, “directly related to leadership failures.” Congress launched the probe in part due to pressure from the family of 20-year-old soldier Vanessa Guillén, who was sexually harassed at the base before she was bludgeoned to death. Vanessa went missing in April. Her remains were only found in July, when her family traveled to Washington to talk to Congress. Her sister, Mayra Guillén, responded to news of the firings last week.
MAYRA GUILLÉN: We’re going to keep pushing. We’re going to keep asking for the legislation to be passed in order to be able to help all these military members that need our help. We don’t need this to happen again. And we’re, I guess you could say, satisfied with what — the investigation they released today. There was individuals that we asked for them to be removed, and they have been removed. Now it’s for us to keep on asking for justice, to find those who are responsible, and keep the investigation going to see who has to be held accountable.
AMY GOODMAN: A panel of five independent investigators spent several weeks at Fort Hood and found a widespread pattern of violence, including murder, sexual assault and harassment. They also collected more than 31,000 responses to a survey on sexual assault and harassment and found many women were afraid to report abuse because previous cases went unpunished. This is panel member Carrie Ricci speaking to reporters last Tuesday.
CARRIE RICCI: I just want to add that one of the things that the soldiers at Fort Hood, many of them, needed was to be believed. And that was what we did. We listened. And so, if any of them see this, I want them to know: We believe you. And that was a really — that’s a really important takeaway, was to believe.
AMY GOODMAN: A proposed bill before Congress called the I Am Vanessa Guillén Act would transform military sexual misconduct inquiries. This comes as veterans’ groups are joining calls to fire the Veterans Affairs Secretary Robert Wilkie, after an inspector general’s report found he tried to smear a woman who filed a complaint of sexual assault at a VA hospital.
Well, for more, we’re joined by Pam Campos-Palma, the senior political strategist and head of the Vets for the People project at Working Families Party, an Air Force veteran herself.
Pam, welcome back to Democracy Now! Explain what happened last week. Who are these 14 people who have been fired or suspended?
PAM CAMPOS-PALMA: Thanks for having me back.
We don’t really know. I mean, Fort Hood, it’s — last week was an explosive moment where, really, what was exposed in that report is what many advocates, veterans, countless military members have been saying for years, frankly. Fort Hood has been known as a less-than-desirable duty station because of these major problems of violent crime. And it’s clear that the base continues to be a clear danger to anyone that serves, works, lives on or off that post.
But really importantly, when they say 14 leaders were fired and suspended, they’ve only released a few names. And it’s really important that we continue to push for transparency, because this could be an opportunity to tell the world, “If you have more rank, you have more responsibility,” or this could be another par-for-the-course scapegoating of junior officers and enlisted. And importantly, what does “fired” even mean? Are they fired from Fort Hood? Are they fired from the Army? Does this mean a court-martial? Do they get to retire with military benefits at their rank? And so, while the report is a good first step, like the Guillén family has said, there is much more to be seen.
AMY GOODMAN: So, for people who aren’t familiar with the case of Vanessa Guillén — I mean, even how her body was found, what happened to her, complaints before she died — can you just take us through that, Pam?
PAM CAMPOS-PALMA: Sure, of course. I vividly remember when Vanessa Guillén was missing. So, really importantly is not to forget that the reason that any action was really taken, in my view, is because Gloria Guillén, her mother, a working-class Latina, who does not speak English, took the Army on when her daughter was missing. And in the report, it should be noted, there was a section on the fact that there really isn’t strong protocols around AWOL soldiers.
But Vanessa Guillén went missing. She had told her mother that she was being sexually harassed by a superior-ranking person. The Army negated that. They undermined the Guilléns in saying that there was proof that her daughter — their daughter, their sister, Vanessa Guillén, was in fact being sexually harassed, which is the crux of the report, which is why you hear Ms. Ricci saying people just want to be believed. Vanessa Guillén was not believed.
And then her body was found, you know, to most of the community’s deep grief. Her body was found off base, really importantly. Vanessa Guillén was murdered on Fort Hood. Her property, her keys, her cellphone were found on the base. And so, the biggest question for months has been: Where is the Army’s accountability, the Department of Defense accountability, for keeping our soldiers safe?
And Vanessa Guillén is only one of many. There actually have been 30 — around 30 soldiers who have been dead from noncombat injuries at Fort Hood, which is why there has been a nationwide movement of public pressure to make sure that there is accountability. And really importantly, what I think is often lost is it took women, women military members and veterans, early on, saying that they would boycott enlistment and demanded the shutdown of the base, particularly Latinas, who are the highest-growing population, enlistment population. And so, it has been months of pressure, of really asking: Where is Congress, where is Army leadership accounting for these systemic failures that have happened for decades?
AMY GOODMAN: And can you talk about the I Am Vanessa Guillén bill in Congress, what exactly that calls for, who’s fighting against it?
PAM CAMPOS-PALMA: Yeah. I mean, the I Am Vanessa Guillén bill is a compilation of many different advocates’ pleas for years. So, one important thing is, this isn’t news. This isn’t news to Congress. It’s not news to the DOD. The I Am Vanessa Guillén bill, most importantly, is demanding that the military cannot investigate itself. The I Am Vanessa Guillén bill most assertively says you must take this out of the hands of the DOD. There must be an independent means for investigating these kinds of criminality, these kinds of crimes.
Additionally, the I Am Vanessa Guillén bill seeks to codify what is assault, what is harassment. The ugly truth is that rape culture is military culture. Military training for many years in this traditional insular institution has really hearkened on training that invokes racism and sexism. And that culture is not unique to Fort Hood. And so, the I Am Vanessa Guillén bill really seeks strong structural transformation and reforms that make this an operational imperative and a national security imperative.
AMY GOODMAN: Uh —
PAM CAMPOS-PALMA: The people — oh, go ahead.
AMY GOODMAN: No, go ahead.
PAM CAMPOS-PALMA: The people who are fighting about — a better question is: Who’s been silent? Who doesn’t want to take on this fight?
AMY GOODMAN: Who? Who do you think needs to?
PAM CAMPOS-PALMA: I mean, for me, one of the most glaring parts of the report not to be glossed over is the report says the only community ties that Fort Hood had was with political and business leaders. So my question is: Where are the representatives that represent Fort Hood, that have represented Fort Hood not just in 2020, but since 2013? Representative Roger Williams came into office in 2013. Representative John Carter has represented that part of Fort Hood for over 20 years. You know, these are politicians that have served in office at a time where Fort Hood had skyrocketing suicides, sexual assaults, even human trafficking incidents, you know, and mass shootings. And so, really, the question is: Where are the people that we the people elected to serve us, who have turned a blind eye to criminality and corruption on one of the largest bases in the world that lands in their district?
Another person that I have my eyes on is General Mark Milley. Our current chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was the base commander of Fort Hood in 2012 to 2014 — again, at a time where Fort Hood was at its all-time highs for sexual assault and an increase in suicides. So, there are several both military and political leaders who have failed up and who have really done a disservice, because Vanessa Guillén’s death and murder was preventable. She should be with us now. And it was this kind of criminal negligence that allowed her abuse and the abuse of other soldiers.
AMY GOODMAN: I mean, her sister Mayra tweeted, after it was announced that these 14 people, including a general, would be suspended or fired, that that is not enough, that she wants people brought up on charges. And even when they were looking for Vanessa Guillén’s body, they found other remains of other soldiers.
PAM CAMPOS-PALMA: Absolutely. I mean, these are institutional failures at scale. And by the Army’s own admission, and in this report, it’s clear that this is not unique to Fort Hood. Military members on social media have even, after reading the report, said, “This sounds like something at — this reminds me of Fort Benning, Fort Bragg,” these other military bases under the Army’s purview, where there has been a vast proliferation of systemic sexual assault.
And these are crimes. Too often we talk about military sexual trauma as an occupational hazard. But the military is dealing with large-scale corruption and crime, and it should be treated as such. If you are a high-ranking general, you do not get to get off the hook and retire and go teach at the War College. This is an incredible opportunity for the Department of Defense and for congressional leaders to actually do right, not only by the Guillén family, but by the military and veteran community at large.
AMY GOODMAN: So, there are calls for Fort Hood to be closed. I want to ask you, as you were talking about: Do you support that today? I mean, what? Something like 30 people have died in the last year, servicemembers connected to Fort Hood, including by homicide, suicide, accident and illness. Also, should Fort Hood’s name be changed? You have Trump saying he wants Congress to strip out of the provision — of this massive military bill the provision that allows renaming of military bases, including Fort Benning and Fort Hood, after Confederate leaders. So, should it be closed? Should it be renamed?
PAM CAMPOS-PALMA: Yeah. We are living in a moment. Take a look at the bigger picture. We’re living in a moment where there are institutions, whether that’s police, ICE or the military, who purport to stand on law and order, and claim accountability, courage and service, only when it suits them. This is a hypocrisy that is dangerous.
And so, renaming Fort Hood, which is named after one of the most reckless Confederate generals, who got a lot of his people killed — renaming Fort Hood to Harriet Tubman, let’s say, while women and soldiers continue to be raped and abused, is not progress, is not what we need. And so, I don’t believe that just renaming — you know, I actually think that campaigns, marketing campaigns, that say, “We’re taking care of our troops,” that lack real structural changes, are harmful.
And so, absolutely, this report only confirms that Fort Hood is a deep, egregious failure and danger. It is one of 800 bases. For me, it must be shut down. And “shut down” means halt all operations on that base at once. You cannot tell your troops and your soldiers, “We’re fixing the problem. We’re going to try to take care of you. But also we’re going to continue as business as normal.” And so, yes, real leadership and accountability means halting all operations, shut down Fort Hood. It is an irredeemable installation. And this is a moment for actual, concrete change, especially if you claim to support the troops.
AMY GOODMAN: Pam Campos-Palma, I thank you so much for being with us, senior political strategist, head of the Vets for People project at the Working Families Party. She is an Air Force veteran herself.
And that does it for our show. A very special thanks to Julie Crosby and Miriam Barnard. Democracy Now! is produced with Renée Feltz, Mike Burke, Deena Guzder, Libby Rainey, Nermeen Shaikh, María Taracena, Carla Wills, Tami Woronoff, Charina Nadura, Sam Alcoff, Tey-Marie Astudillo, John Hamilton, Robby Karran, Hany Massoud and Adriano Contreras. Our general manager, Julie Crosby. Special thanks to Becca Staley, Denis Moynihan, Paul Powell. I’m Amy Goodman. Stay safe. Wear a mask.


democracynow--2020-12-14--Vaccine Equity: Why Communities of Color & Incarcerated People Should Get Early Access to Shots

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
The first shipments of the federally approved COVID-19 vaccine are arriving today at 145 locations across all 50 states .
This comes as the U.S. death toll hits 300,000 — by far the highest in the world .
On Friday night , the Food and Drug Administration issued emergency use authorization for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine .
The first shipment of the vaccine will @ @ @ @ @ @ @ workers will receive the first doses , some possibly as early as today .
Residents of nursing homes will be next in line .
Another coronavirus vaccine , one developed by Moderna , could be approved as soon as the end of the week .
As the U.S. government races to distribute the vaccine , there are many questions over who should get the first shots and what steps the government can take to build trust in the vaccine .
We ’ re joined now by Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones , the past @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , a family physician , epidemiologist , longtime antiracism activist .
She ’ s joining us from Atlanta , Georgia , where she teaches at Emory Rollins School of Public Health and the Morehouse School of Medicine .
It ’ s great to have you back , Doctor .
You ’ re joining us on the first day of early voting in the Senate runoff races that could determine the balance of the Senate .
But we ’ re here to talk to you about who should get this vaccine .
Can you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ rolled out and how that decision is made ?
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES : Yes .
Thank you for having me back .
And the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices , which advises the CDC , met a few weeks ago and proposed that healthcare workers and people who are living in long-term care facilities receive the vaccine first .
And I agree that those who are more exposed through their work or through their living situations should get the vaccine first , but I think that the panel actually neglected to recognize @ @ @ @ @ @ @ exposed through their work , but other essential workers are exposed through — you know , those in transportation sectors , those in the food chain and warehouses and the like .
And those essential workers even tend to be less protected in their increased exposure , so I think that those essential workers should be included in the first rollout .
And then , also the advisory committee recognized that residents of long-term care facilities are more exposed because of their living situations , and so they talked about nursing homes and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not talk about those who are in long-term care facilities in prisons , in jails , in detention centers .
And I think that those people , as well , should be offered a first chance to get the vaccine .
After those groups — and I would have to say one more group which is at high risk because of their living situations are people who are living in segregated communities — Black and Brown and Indigenous , you know , like Navajo Nation — communities where we ’ ve seen a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ higher death rates .
And so , those people should also be given priority access to the vaccine .
After that , then others of us who have so-called preexisting conditions — so , you know , obesity , cancer diagnoses , kidney disease and the like — as well as those of us who are 65 and over , should be in the next wave .
But I think that CDC got it right partially in terms of those overexposed because of their work or their living conditions , but they did @ @ @ @ @ @ @ prisons , jails , detention centers , and they did not include those of us who are more exposed and less protected in our work .
AMY GOODMAN : So , I want to go to the issue of prisoners , who are in prisons around the country , that have clearly become hot spots for COVID-19 .
Can you talk about the case for vaccinating prisoners early ?
You have people like the governor of Colorado , for example , Jared Polis , who said , no , they should not be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
You argue otherwise .
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES : I do argue otherwise .
I can ’ t even fathom the devaluation of the lives of prisoners that must be going through the mind of that governor .
I mean , if you ’ re looking at the science and you ’ re looking at hot spots and you ’ re looking at conditions where there is going to be a lot of concentrated spread — people are unable to physically distance , they do not have protective equipment — you know @ @ @ @ @ @ @ need to value and save .
Actually , I would say that there are three principles that I ’ ve articulated for being about health equity , racial equity , social equity .
And the first of those is valuing all individuals and populations equally .
And when you value somebody , you protect them .
You invite their input .
You celebrate them .
There are lots of things .
You invest in them .
But certainly , we need to recognize that these are our brothers and sisters .
They have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to decarcerate as much as possible , continue getting them out of danger .
And for those who remain incarcerated , we need to offer them the protection that they need .
AMY GOODMAN : And , of course , detention centers , as well , where immigrants are in prisons all over the country and along the border — again , hot spots — and particularly when it comes to the issue of prison authorities moving prisoners from one prison to another , causing superspreading events .
In California , for example @ @ @ @ @ @ @ again skyrocketed , with more than 4,000 active infections among prisoners , the highest number since the pandemic began .
Altogether , after 22,000 prisoners tested positive for COVID-19 in California and at least 90 have died , prisoners at San Quentin said authorities are preparing to transfer people to other prisons , despite the COVID-19 levels being at an all-time high .
This is award-winning incarcerated journalist Juan Haines , who spoke to Democracy Now !
from San Quentin .
AMY GOODMAN : Award-winning journalist Juan Haines , speaking from inside San @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as early as today .
The responsibility of authorities when it comes to the people that they incarcerate , what they should — their responsibility in caring for them ?
AMY GOODMAN : If you can discuss the responsibility of federal authorities or state authorities — AMY GOODMAN : — when it comes to who they incarcerate , and caring for them when they ’ re inside ?
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES : Well , I mean , they do have a responsibility .
They have a responsibility of care and a responsibility @ @ @ @ @ @ @ didn ’ t care about those people , the people that they have so often dehumanized , the people who have been overpoliced in their communities and oversentenced and the like , we have to also recognize that what happens inside the prisons gets into the community in a number of ways .
There ’ s so much churn in terms of Black folks and Brown folks being in and out of prisons .
They ’ re people who work in the prisons .
So , of course we need to value all @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people did not , the self-interest in terms of superspreader events not being constricted or maintained inside the prisons but getting into the communities should also motivate .
But clearly , we need to — these people are people .
These are our brothers and sisters .
As Bryan Stevenson says , we should not be judged by the worst thing that we ’ ve done in life .
We are so much bigger than the worst thing we ’ ve done in life .
AMY GOODMAN : Even bars do not prevent @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and this applies to guards , as well .
Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones , you have called for a secretary of equity .
Explain .
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES : Yes .
Well , I believe that the Biden-Harris administration already recognizes the importance of infusing attention to equity throughout all of the administration and all of our efforts .
When I talk about a secretary of equity , it would be a role that would acknowledge these three principles for achieving health equity : valuing all individuals and populations equally , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ then providing resources according to need — not equally , but according to need — which requires developing a metric of need and then having the political spine to distribute resources based on that .
This secretary of equity would interdigitate with all of the other departments , so helping the Transportation Department figure out how do we value all individuals and populations equally , how do we recognize and rectify historical injustices , how do we provide resources according to need — immigration , education , housing , labor , justice , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ guiding principles — and then making those — operationalizing those principles within their wheelhouse , within their realms ?
And I think that this is very important .
We need — in order to get to racial justice , economic justice , climate justice , as well as health justice , we need to be about equity in all of our work .
It can ’ t be something — so , I would just say one more thing about this .
With a secretary of equity , it shouldn ’ t be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ all the other departments are free to go , right ?
This would be something that would be , I would say , perhaps across the departments .
And the Biden-Sanders unity task force has been making similar calls .
So , I ’ m hopeful that something like that will be established .
AMY GOODMAN : At an event hosted by the National Urban League Tuesday , Dr. Anthony Fauci credited African American scientist Dr. Kizzmekia Corbett for helping to lead the development of one of the key vaccines .
This is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ working with the Vaccine Research Center , speaking in a report by ABC News .
AMY GOODMAN : That ’ s Dr. Kizzmekia Corbett of the National Institutes of Health , who helped to develop the vaccines .
Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones , can you talk about her significance ?
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES : Oh , well , it ’ s amazing .
She ’ s an amazing scientist .
I had the opportunity to be on a panel with her sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation .
If people are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ look at that September 16th event .
It is important that she ’ s been leading the science .
I would say that I agree that our evaluation has been done by scientists and not by the politicians .
I will say that the first vaccine that has received emergency use authorization has shown amazing ability to stop symptomatic disease .
We have early safety data , which reassures us , but there remain many questions .
And so , part of being trustworthy is not trying to convince or coax or cajole @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is to hear people ’ s questions and then answer their questions truthfully and clearly , where some of the answers right now may be “ We don ’ t know.
” So , we actually don ’ t know , because the typical amount of time that somebody has been followed after their second dose is two months .
So we don ’ t know about six-month or one-year complications .
They followed 40,000 people , so we don ’ t know about rare complications that might occur in one in 100,000 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I know that I would rather live with the uncertainty of having taken the vaccine as opposed to the premature death associated with COVID-19 .
So when my turn comes in line to get the vaccine , I ’ m going to accept it .
But we have to continue strong safety monitoring as we roll out the vaccine , so that we can answer some of the questions that remain unanswered so far .
AMY GOODMAN : So , talk about why people , particularly African Americans and Latinx and Native American @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , looking at the history of experimentation .
I wanted to turn to Dr. Leon McDougle , the president of the National Medical Association , the NMA , which represents African American physicians and their patients .
The NMA launched a COVID-19 task force this summer in hopes of providing one central place for reliable coronavirus information for the Black community .
He spoke to the PBS NewsHour .
AMY GOODMAN : That ’ s Dr. Leon McDougle , president of the National Medical Association .
Here in New York today , the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a massive public education campaign goes out in New York City , for example , as it ’ s happening all over the country .
But this distrust — he was just talking about informed consent , something certainly African Americans did not have when it came , for example , to the Tuskegee experiments , that led to the deaths of so many African American men thinking they were being treated for syphilis when they were left to die .
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES : That ’ s right .
And the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
There have been many historical abuses , from the use of slave women without anesthesia to perfect gynecological procedures by Marion Sims , who is lifted up as the father of gynecology , by , you know , what they call a Mississippi appendectomy , the sterilization , the forced , without consent , sterilization , including also in Puerto Rico and many places .
There have been so many — such a long history of abuse of Black and Brown and Indigenous bodies in our society by the medical profession .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ distant past ; they continue today .
I mean , just months ago , we were hearing about , in one of the detention centers , people who were getting hysterectomies without their knowledge .
So , this trustworthiness is a very important thing that is not on the part of people to trust , but others to evidence their trustworthiness , which has to go beyond the vaccine .
It has to be in supporting people through this pandemic by providing a living wage or , you know , a universal basic @ @ @ @ @ @ @ lost their jobs .
We have to have eviction moratoria and foreclosure moratoria .
We have to provide protective equipment to all of our essential workers , in all of our workplaces .
We have to have the Occupational Safety and Health Administration promulgate workplace safety standards in the context of COVID-19 and then regulate people and ensure that those standards are met .
We shouldn ’ t be protecting employers from suits in case people in their employ get sick or die .
So , this just trustworthiness not just an isolated @ @ @ @ @ @ @ vaccine .
If we are going to demonstrate that we value all of our lives , then we have to value all aspects of our lives and not just try to say , “ Take the vaccine now .
You have to do this for the good of the whole , ” when the good of the whole has not been trying to protect each of us .
AMY GOODMAN : Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones , we thank you so much for joining us , family physician , epidemiologist , past president of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at the Emory School of Public Health and the Morehouse School of Medicine , speaking to us from Atlanta , Georgia .
When we come back , the Army has fired or suspended 14 officers , including a general and soldiers , stationed at Fort Hood , where 20-year-old soldier Vanessa Guillén was sexually harassed before she was bludgeoned to death earlier this year .
Her family says they ’ re still pushing for justice , and there ’ s a bill in Congress .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
The first shipments of the federally approved COVID-19 vaccine are arriving today at 145 locations across all 50 states. This comes as the U.S. death toll hits 300,000 — by far the highest in the world. On Friday night, the Food and Drug Administration issued emergency use authorization for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine. The first shipment of the vaccine will cover nearly 3 million people. Healthcare workers will receive the first doses, some possibly as early as today. Residents of nursing homes will be next in line. Another coronavirus vaccine, one developed by Moderna, could be approved as soon as the end of the week. As the U.S. government races to distribute the vaccine, there are many questions over who should get the first shots and what steps the government can take to build trust in the vaccine.
We’re joined now by Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones, the past president of the American Public Health Association, a family physician, epidemiologist, longtime antiracism activist. She’s joining us from Atlanta, Georgia, where she teaches at Emory Rollins School of Public Health and the Morehouse School of Medicine.
It’s great to have you back, Doctor. You’re joining us on the first day of early voting in the Senate runoff races that could determine the balance of the Senate. But we’re here to talk to you about who should get this vaccine. Can you talk about how it’s being rolled out and how that decision is made?
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES: Yes. Thank you for having me back.
And the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, which advises the CDC, met a few weeks ago and proposed that healthcare workers and people who are living in long-term care facilities receive the vaccine first. And I agree that those who are more exposed through their work or through their living situations should get the vaccine first, but I think that the panel actually neglected to recognize that not only are healthcare workers more exposed through their work, but other essential workers are exposed through — you know, those in transportation sectors, those in the food chain and warehouses and the like. And those essential workers even tend to be less protected in their increased exposure, so I think that those essential workers should be included in the first rollout.
And then, also the advisory committee recognized that residents of long-term care facilities are more exposed because of their living situations, and so they talked about nursing homes and assisted living facilities, but they did not talk about those who are in long-term care facilities in prisons, in jails, in detention centers. And I think that those people, as well, should be offered a first chance to get the vaccine.
After those groups — and I would have to say one more group which is at high risk because of their living situations are people who are living in segregated communities — Black and Brown and Indigenous, you know, like Navajo Nation — communities where we’ve seen a very high prevalence of the virus and higher death rates. And so, those people should also be given priority access to the vaccine.
After that, then others of us who have so-called preexisting conditions — so, you know, obesity, cancer diagnoses, kidney disease and the like — as well as those of us who are 65 and over, should be in the next wave.
But I think that CDC got it right partially in terms of those overexposed because of their work or their living conditions, but they did not include our brothers and sisters in prisons, jails, detention centers, and they did not include those of us who are more exposed and less protected in our work.
AMY GOODMAN: So, I want to go to the issue of prisoners, who are in prisons around the country, that have clearly become hot spots for COVID-19. Can you talk about the case for vaccinating prisoners early? You have people like the governor of Colorado, for example, Jared Polis, who said, no, they should not be injected early, given the vaccine early. You argue otherwise.
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES: I do argue otherwise. I can’t even fathom the devaluation of the lives of prisoners that must be going through the mind of that governor. I mean, if you’re looking at the science and you’re looking at hot spots and you’re looking at conditions where there is going to be a lot of concentrated spread — people are unable to physically distance, they do not have protective equipment — you know, these are the lives that we need to value and save.
Actually, I would say that there are three principles that I’ve articulated for being about health equity, racial equity, social equity. And the first of those is valuing all individuals and populations equally. And when you value somebody, you protect them. You invite their input. You celebrate them. There are lots of things. You invest in them. But certainly, we need to recognize that these are our brothers and sisters. They have been put in danger. We need to decarcerate as much as possible, continue getting them out of danger. And for those who remain incarcerated, we need to offer them the protection that they need.
AMY GOODMAN: And, of course, detention centers, as well, where immigrants are in prisons all over the country and along the border — again, hot spots — and particularly when it comes to the issue of prison authorities moving prisoners from one prison to another, causing superspreading events. In California, for example, coronavirus cases inside prisons have once again skyrocketed, with more than 4,000 active infections among prisoners, the highest number since the pandemic began. Altogether, after 22,000 prisoners tested positive for COVID-19 in California and at least 90 have died, prisoners at San Quentin said authorities are preparing to transfer people to other prisons, despite the COVID-19 levels being at an all-time high. This is award-winning incarcerated journalist Juan Haines, who spoke to Democracy Now! from San Quentin.
JUAN MORENO HAINES: The problem with the transfer is all California prisons are enclosed and unventilated. All throughout the state, our leaders are telling us to stay at home, don’t mingle with people that you don’t know, wear a mask inside — and which we’re all doing that inside of these buildings. But I know we can’t be operating on alternative facts when it comes to enclosed, unventilated buildings. We can’t have one set of rules for restaurants, gyms, nail salons, etc., and another for prisons.
AMY GOODMAN: Award-winning journalist Juan Haines, speaking from inside San Quentin. He reportedly is being transferred as early as today. The responsibility of authorities when it comes to the people that they incarcerate, what they should — their responsibility in caring for them?
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES: I’m sorry? I didn’t quite —
AMY GOODMAN: If you can discuss the responsibility of federal authorities or state authorities —
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES: Yes
AMY GOODMAN: — when it comes to who they incarcerate, and caring for them when they’re inside?
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES: Well, I mean, they do have a responsibility. They have a responsibility of care and a responsibility of protection. But even if they didn’t care about those people, the people that they have so often dehumanized, the people who have been overpoliced in their communities and oversentenced and the like, we have to also recognize that what happens inside the prisons gets into the community in a number of ways. There’s so much churn in terms of Black folks and Brown folks being in and out of prisons. They’re people who work in the prisons.
So, of course we need to value all of us equally, but even if people did not, the self-interest in terms of superspreader events not being constricted or maintained inside the prisons but getting into the communities should also motivate. But clearly, we need to — these people are people. These are our brothers and sisters. As Bryan Stevenson says, we should not be judged by the worst thing that we’ve done in life. We are so much bigger than the worst thing we’ve done in life.
AMY GOODMAN: Even bars do not prevent the transmission, obviously, of coronavirus, and this applies to guards, as well. Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones, you have called for a secretary of equity. Explain.
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES: Yes. Well, I believe that the Biden-Harris administration already recognizes the importance of infusing attention to equity throughout all of the administration and all of our efforts. When I talk about a secretary of equity, it would be a role that would acknowledge these three principles for achieving health equity: valuing all individuals and populations equally, recognizing and rectifying historical injustices, and then providing resources according to need — not equally, but according to need — which requires developing a metric of need and then having the political spine to distribute resources based on that.
This secretary of equity would interdigitate with all of the other departments, so helping the Transportation Department figure out how do we value all individuals and populations equally, how do we recognize and rectify historical injustices, how do we provide resources according to need — immigration, education, housing, labor, justice, all of these departments with the same guiding principles — and then making those — operationalizing those principles within their wheelhouse, within their realms? And I think that this is very important. We need — in order to get to racial justice, economic justice, climate justice, as well as health justice, we need to be about equity in all of our work. It can’t be something — so, I would just say one more thing about this. With a secretary of equity, it shouldn’t be that equity is all there, and all the other departments are free to go, right? This would be something that would be, I would say, perhaps across the departments. And the Biden-Sanders unity task force has been making similar calls. So, I’m hopeful that something like that will be established.
AMY GOODMAN: At an event hosted by the National Urban League Tuesday, Dr. Anthony Fauci credited African American scientist Dr. Kizzmekia Corbett for helping to lead the development of one of the key vaccines. This is Dr. Corbett, a senior research fellow working with the Vaccine Research Center, speaking in a report by ABC News.
KIZZMEKIA CORBETT: What I want people to understand is that the safety and the development of these vaccines is not any different than what has been happening before. The requirements from the FDA are actually more robust than they have been before. I also understand that there are issues of lack of trustworthiness. And I say it in that way because, understanding that the onus of gaining the public’s trust lies in the hands of people like me from the vaccine development standpoint and the institutions where I am employed, for example, to earn trust that has been stripped from people over the course of centuries, I wanted to make it clear that the work that we’ve been doing for so long, I personally — I stand by it, with essentially all of my being.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Dr. Kizzmekia Corbett of the National Institutes of Health, who helped to develop the vaccines. Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones, can you talk about her significance?
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES: Oh, well, it’s amazing. She’s an amazing scientist. I had the opportunity to be on a panel with her sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation. If people are interested in that panel, they can look at that September 16th event.
It is important that she’s been leading the science. I would say that I agree that our evaluation has been done by scientists and not by the politicians. I will say that the first vaccine that has received emergency use authorization has shown amazing ability to stop symptomatic disease. We have early safety data, which reassures us, but there remain many questions. And so, part of being trustworthy is not trying to convince or coax or cajole anybody into taking a vaccine; it is to hear people’s questions and then answer their questions truthfully and clearly, where some of the answers right now may be “We don’t know.”
So, we actually don’t know, because the typical amount of time that somebody has been followed after their second dose is two months. So we don’t know about six-month or one-year complications. They followed 40,000 people, so we don’t know about rare complications that might occur in one in 100,000. But all said and done, I know that I would rather live with the uncertainty of having taken the vaccine as opposed to the premature death associated with COVID-19. So when my turn comes in line to get the vaccine, I’m going to accept it. But we have to continue strong safety monitoring as we roll out the vaccine, so that we can answer some of the questions that remain unanswered so far.
AMY GOODMAN: So, talk about why people, particularly African Americans and Latinx and Native American people, are concerned about this vaccine, looking at the history of experimentation. I wanted to turn to Dr. Leon McDougle, the president of the National Medical Association, the NMA, which represents African American physicians and their patients. The NMA launched a COVID-19 task force this summer in hopes of providing one central place for reliable coronavirus information for the Black community. He spoke to the PBS NewsHour.
DR. LEON McDOUGLE: We wanted to be that trusted source and have a independent, nonpartisan lens looking at the data to form a bridge of clarity to help people to understand what in fact is true and what in fact is fiction. … This is part of what I do every day. Doctor means to teach. It is not a dictatorship. We negotiate. We discuss patients’ concern about a particular possible side effect. It’s informed discussion, informed consent. That’s what we do as healthcare professionals.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Dr. Leon McDougle, president of the National Medical Association. Here in New York today, the vaccine coordination center goes into effect as a massive public education campaign goes out in New York City, for example, as it’s happening all over the country. But this distrust — he was just talking about informed consent, something certainly African Americans did not have when it came, for example, to the Tuskegee experiments, that led to the deaths of so many African American men thinking they were being treated for syphilis when they were left to die.
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES: That’s right. And the distrust is not just based on historical. There have been many historical abuses, from the use of slave women without anesthesia to perfect gynecological procedures by Marion Sims, who is lifted up as the father of gynecology, by, you know, what they call a Mississippi appendectomy, the sterilization, the forced, without consent, sterilization, including also in Puerto Rico and many places. There have been so many — such a long history of abuse of Black and Brown and Indigenous bodies in our society by the medical profession. But these are not just in the distant past; they continue today. I mean, just months ago, we were hearing about, in one of the detention centers, people who were getting hysterectomies without their knowledge.
So, this trustworthiness is a very important thing that is not on the part of people to trust, but others to evidence their trustworthiness, which has to go beyond the vaccine. It has to be in supporting people through this pandemic by providing a living wage or, you know, a universal basic income for those of us who have lost their jobs. We have to have eviction moratoria and foreclosure moratoria. We have to provide protective equipment to all of our essential workers, in all of our workplaces. We have to have the Occupational Safety and Health Administration promulgate workplace safety standards in the context of COVID-19 and then regulate people and ensure that those standards are met. We shouldn’t be protecting employers from suits in case people in their employ get sick or die. So, this just trustworthiness not just an isolated, single-lane trustworthiness in terms of the vaccine. If we are going to demonstrate that we value all of our lives, then we have to value all aspects of our lives and not just try to say, “Take the vaccine now. You have to do this for the good of the whole,” when the good of the whole has not been trying to protect each of us.
AMY GOODMAN: Well —
DR. CAMARA PHYLLIS JONES: So, yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Camara Phyllis Jones, we thank you so much for joining us, family physician, epidemiologist, past president of the American Public Health Association, teaches at the Emory School of Public Health and the Morehouse School of Medicine, speaking to us from Atlanta, Georgia.
When we come back, the Army has fired or suspended 14 officers, including a general and soldiers, stationed at Fort Hood, where 20-year-old soldier Vanessa Guillén was sexually harassed before she was bludgeoned to death earlier this year. Her family says they’re still pushing for justice, and there’s a bill in Congress. Stay with us.