democracynow--2020-03-23--Former ICE Director: Release Immigrants from Detention or COVID-19 Will Spread Like Wildfire Inside

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The War and Peace Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
We ’ re broadcasting from New York , the epicenter of the pandemic in the United States .
As the global death toll from the coronavirus pandemic tops 15,000 , with more than 450 deaths here in the U.S. , alarm is growing about the safety of more than 37,000 people detained at immigration detention centers and private jails that contract with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , where it ’ s nearly impossible to avoid close contact and follow social distancing to stop the spread of the virus .
Nearly half of those detained by ICE are accused of no crime other than civil immigration violations .
ICE says there are no confirmed cases of coronavirus among detained immigrants at the facilities it runs , but at least one worker has tested positive at the Elizabeth Detention Center in New Jersey who ’ s a member of the medical staff .
Meanwhile , two people held at the Hudson @ @ @ @ @ @ @ tested positive .
Like detention centers , the jail holds people detained for civil immigration offenses and is now on lockdown for two weeks .
Immigrants at Hudson and two other New Jersey jails are now on hunger strikes over unsanitary conditions amidst the pandemic .
This is part of a call recorded Friday with a man held in the immigrant detention at Essex County Correctional Facility .
He has since been placed in solitary confinement .
AMY GOODMAN : On Sunday , the group Never Again Action organized a protest with nearly @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Detention Center to demand New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy release people being held there .
Never Again also held an in-car protest outside California Governor Gavin Newsom ’ s home to call for the release of detainees .
AMY GOODMAN : More than 3,000 physicians have signed a letter calling for ICE to release people from detention while their legal cases proceed , especially those who are over 60 or have medical conditions that put them at higher risk of dying from COVID-19 .
There ’ s also growing concern about the spread @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Customs and Border Protection at shelters for unaccompanied migrant children that are run by the federal Office of Refugee Resettlement .
The news outlet Documented reports a staff member at Abbott House , a shelter in Irvington , New York , has tested positive for COVID-19 and placed all exposed migrant children held there in quarantine for 14 days .
This comes as the Trump administration announced it will shift its enforcement operations to focus on dangerous individuals .
For more , we ’ re joined by two guests .
In Phoenix , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
He is former acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement , ICE , during the Obama administration .
He wrote a piece published Sunday by The Atlantic headlined “ I Used to Run ICE .
We Need to Release the Nonviolent Detainees : It ’ s the only way to protect detention facilities and the people in them from COVID-19.
” And in Los Angeles , we ’ re joined by Angelica Salas , executive director of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights in California , or CHIRLA , which just led @ @ @ @ @ @ @ actions .
We welcome you both to Democracy Now !
John Sandweg , let ’ s begin with you .
You ’ re generally in Washington , but you ’ re in Phoenix , Arizona , right now .
Talk about what you are calling for .
JOHN SANDWEG : Well , look , the immigration detention centers really are vulnerable to the outbreak of a contagious disease .
During my time at ICE and my time at DHS , we had several outbreaks of contagious diseases .
The nature of these facilities @ @ @ @ @ @ @ impossible to engage in the social distancing that we ’ re all practicing right now .
So , when you look at the population of ICE and who ’ s in those detention facilities , and you recognize that really only a small percentage pose any public safety threat , when you recognize that their immigration proceedings can continue even if they ’ re out of custody , and when you look at the thousands of ICE officers , contract guards and employees who have to go to those facilities every day , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ risk of catching COVID-19 because of their exposure to the facilities themselves , it seems just very commonsensical to me to say , let ’ s go ahead and downsize the population of the detention centers dramatically , release these individuals .
If you pose a threat to public safety , you stay in .
Meanwhile , the immigration court proceedings , the deportation proceedings , will continue as planned , and ICE will just monitor you from an out-of-custody perspective .
It just seems commonsensical to me at this point .
AMY @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that there are no cases inside , and on the outside , in the free world in the United States , we really have no idea how many people are positive , because of the massive lack of tests , let alone what ’ s going on inside these refugee centers , these jails .
Are you talking about thousands of people ?
And where are these detention centers ?
JOHN SANDWEG : So , the detention centers are scattered across the United States .
And as you kind of alluded to earlier @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of contract , private prison-run — that ’ s probably the largest — you know , probably close to the largest holder of ICE detainees are private prison companies that operate massive detention centers under contract with ICE ; state and local jails across the country ; and then a very small percentage are in actually federally owned facilities .
So they ’ re scattered across the country .
Oftentimes they ’ re mixed with the criminal population .
And what ’ s strange about this is , you ’ re going to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is , you know , across the country , courts and sheriff ’ s offices are looking at their populations , because they recognize the vulnerability in their jails , so they ’ re letting criminal detainees out .
But in some of those very same facilities , the ICE detainees are going to be remain locked up , even though they have not , in many instances , been charged with a criminal offense , much less convicted of one .
AMY GOODMAN : I mean , they are being held pending @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people are and what power ICE has .
JOHN SANDWEG : Sure .
ICE has complete authority to release anyone from immigration detention .
They have a significant parole authority , and they can release someone even if they fall under what ’ s called mandatory detention under the immigration laws .
But what you have in immigration detention is a mix .
To be fair , there is a population there of people who were convicted of serious crimes , and in some cases violent crimes .
We ’ re not talking @ @ @ @ @ @ @ about releasing those individuals .
There are some individuals who pose a genuine public safety threat , that need to be detained .
But in immigration , it ’ s different than the criminal system .
We don ’ t engage in this kind of risk analysis where we look at whether or not you pose a public safety threat or a dramatic flight risk .
What we ’ re looking at is whether or not you fall under certain categories under the immigration law that really aren ’ t designed to evaluate @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they are just more almost — I wouldn ’ t say arbitrary , but almost arbitrary categories , where we say , “ You are subject to detention , and you are not.
” We ’ re also probably looking at a lot of immigrants who are eligible to be released pursuant to bail but just couldn ’ t afford to post the bail .
So , unlike the criminal detention system , what you ’ re really going to see here is a very high percentage of individuals who I don ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the harder ICE officers , would look at the case and say , “ Yeah , they generally pose a threat to public safety.
” These are people who got caught up in the immigration system and , for one reason or another , are detained .
You know , and listen , one thing I want to be very clear about , I think there ’ s a misconception .
People who go through the immigration court process , the actual majority of them are not detained .
They ’ re being @ @ @ @ @ @ @ under ankle bracelets or electric — you know , they have to report on a monthly basis to ICE .
So , what we ’ re talking about is just saying , let ’ s let the immigration deportation proceedings continue .
Nobody gets a free pass .
Let ’ s just get them out of custody , because it makes it a lot safer for them but also makes it a lot safer for the ICE officers who have to go to those facilities every single day .
AMY GOODMAN : And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people here ?
What ?
Thirty-seven thousand under ICE jurisdiction ?
JOHN SANDWEG : The population fluctuates , of course , but , generally speaking , ICE is operating about 40,000 detention beds right now across the country .
I would say about 37,000 are in detention .
Now , the administration ’ s announcement that they ’ re going to stop arresting and detaining people on the front end , new people , who don ’ t pose a threat to public safety , is a great start .
I have to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it doesn ’ t really make any sense to do that and limit the flow of new people in , if you don ’ t also go ahead and discharge the people who don ’ t pose a threat to public safety who are already in your custody .
AMY GOODMAN : And have you spoken to people in the Trump administration , having been a former head of ICE yourself ?
JOHN SANDWEG : Well , I have casual conversations with people at the department , but I have not engaged in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ will tell you , though , I know just from experience in dealing with similar outbreaks of infectious diseases — nothing on the scale of this , nothing as high-profile as this , though — but , really , the folks who are also deeply concerned about this are not just the advocacy world or the immigrant rights community , but the officers themselves .
These are the folks who have to go home every day to their families , and they have to work inside these facilities .
And it ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ facilities be operated in as safe a manner as possible , as it is to the detainees .
I ’ m surprised — and I wouldn ’ t be surprised if we hear something soon from the ICE officers ’ union or other officers themselves who also want to see similar measures taken to protect them .
AMY GOODMAN : I want to bring Angelica Salas into the conversation , executive director of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights in California , known as CHIRLA .
Talk about John Sandweg ’ s proposal @ @ @ @ @ @ @ saying , the overwhelmingly nonviolent detainees who are under ICE custody , because ICE — people who are in civil detention , because ICE has the supreme power simply to make that decision .
Can you talk about that , and also what it means to be a person with a violent record ?
Aren ’ t these people who have already served time in prison , who are then put into the system , the ICE system , to be deported ?
ANGELICA SALAS : Well , I agree wholeheartedly with John @ @ @ @ @ @ @ down .
It is absolutely outrageous that everything in America has stopped , and our jails are releasing prisoners , and yet in our immigration detention centers we still have people at risk of dying .
It is imperative that these centers be shut down immediately .
And I think that , in my perspective , is that we need to release everyone in those detention centers .
The Congress has appropriated billions of dollars in order to run these centers .
In addition , there ’ s millions of dollars have been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ there are resources to actually allow individuals to be released .
And I want to remind everybody , these are mothers , these are fathers , these are human beings , and they should be treated no different than anybody else .
So , we ’ re calling for an immediate shutdown of these detention centers .
Individuals need to be released back to their homes .
They have families whom they have to be with .
So , our perspective is that — and during this time of crisis , once again @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , whether it ’ s on the enforcement side or in the detainee side .
And I also want to tell everybody that as we have individuals who are fighting their detention and their deportation , on the other side , there ’ s also immigration attorneys .
And I have to tell you , I ’ m working with our immigration attorneys , who are saying , “ What do we do ?
We have a horrible choice to make .
We have to go into immigration courts to defend people who @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have their due process and they ’ re not deported from this country.
” At the same time , they still have to put themselves out there to represent these detainees , to be able to fulfill justice even in this moment .
We have to fully close our immigration courts , and we have to release these detainees and protect everybody involved .
So I also want to talk about the immigration attorneys , who are still being heroic during this time , trying to defend immigrants .
We just need to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they need to be treated with dignity during this time .
They need to be afforded what every other human being deserves , which is a chance to live .
AMY GOODMAN : At Sunday ’ s coronavirus briefing at the White House , a reporter asked President Trump if undocumented immigrants can go to testing sites without fear of then being deported .
Vice President Pence said Customs and Border Protection has issued guidance that agents will not target emergency rooms or health clinics in search of undocumented immigrants , barring extraordinary @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s response .
AMY GOODMAN : “ We will test those people.
” “ It ’ s important because we ’ re sending them out of the country.
” First I want to ask John Sandweg , and then Angelica Salas : Can you respond to what he just said : “ Yes , so that we can deport them ” ?
JOHN SANDWEG : Well , listen , this is a public health issue , just like the detention centers themselves .
I think it ’ s helpful for people to look @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and safety of the undocumented immigrant or the detainee itself , but the public at large .
If we have undocumented immigrants in our communities who are scared to go get testing , who might be symptomatic and certainly might be contagious , and they are hesitant to go be tested because of fear that ICE is going to take them into custody , it doesn ’ t just make that community unsafe , it makes all of us unsafe .
So , again , this is a very simple , commonsense proposal @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that ICE needs to issue guidance making it abundantly clear that individuals who go for testing or seek medical treatment are not going to be taken into custody .
Now , the reality is this : ICE has no desire to take these individuals into custody .
ICE is just as much scared of a breakout in one of their detention facilities as is the immigrant community .
ICE is going to stay away from anybody who ’ s been diagnosed or tested or suspected of having COVID-19 , simply because an outbreak @ @ @ @ @ @ @ internally and logistically , and exposes the ICE officers at risk themselves .
Nevertheless , there ’ s a fear in the immigrant community about ICE , especially in the Trump administration .
And this is something that we did during natural disasters on multiple occasions , hurricanes and otherwise , is put out a statement saying we ’ re not going to take people into custody who are seeking assistance .
Something very similar needs to be done here , not just , again , for the safety of the community itself @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , so that these individuals can be tested and go into quarantine if they are in fact positive for COVID-19 .
AMY GOODMAN : And , Angelica Salas , if you could respond , and specifically address children , I mean , who are separated all over this country — we don ’ t even know the numbers right now — and how they fit into this picture ?
ANGELICA SALAS : CHIRLA ’ s perspective is that immigration enforcement needs to cease immediately .
There is no reason that any person going @ @ @ @ @ @ @ immigration will somehow come in contact with them .
At this moment what we need to do is safeguard resources for this health crisis .
And so , what we ’ re asking for , number one , is that all immigrants , independent of their immigration status , have access to testing , that they also have access to the treatment if they are found to have the virus , that they are treated in the same way as any other human being during this moment .
I want to let listeners @ @ @ @ @ @ @ undocumented immigrants , don ’ t have the same access to the resources available to others .
So this is a moment in which we say , because we are all interdependent , where we all actually are dependent on other people ’ s health for our own health , we need to make sure that immigrants have access to all the same level of care .
And that also means that we increase resources to community clinics , which in many instances are places where the undocumented go for treatment .
That @ @ @ @ @ @ @ go .
So we need to make sure that we also bolster up resources across this country so that immigrants have the same level of care .
There should be no requirement for residency , citizenship status or any other kind of request for information for immigrants ; otherwise , they ’ re not going to go move forward .
And I tell you this because we run an immigrant assistance hotline , and we ’ re receiving these calls of individuals who are calling us just to make sure that they ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
The last thing I also want to say with this is that immigrants are also the ones that are being laid off all over this country , who are losing their jobs , and they don ’ t have access to unemployment benefits , either .
So , whether it ’ s access to care or access to just some level of economic support , they ’ re completely left out .
And I want to tell America , we are part of this country .
Immigrants are part of this country @ @ @ @ @ @ @ taken care of your children , of your elderly , who are putting food on your table right now .
And just do not forget us , and make sure that immigrants are included in this moment of great peril for the rest of our — for our entire country .
AMY GOODMAN : Finally , John Sandweg , let me ask you — as you see what ’ s happening on the border , immigrants were afraid of the U.S. government long before Trump .
Do you have any regrets about your @ @ @ @ @ @ @ anything differently , as director of ICE under the Obama administration ?
Of course , we know millions of people were deported then .
Trump has now taken what President Obama — the foundation he built , and , you know , taken it to a different level .
But your thoughts on that ?
JOHN SANDWEG : Well , look , we were focused — there ’ s a role for immigration enforcement in this country .
We need to enforce our immigration laws .
We need to have border security in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s approach , however , was focused on those who pose a public safety threat and those who just recently compromised our border security , meaning people who just crossed the border .
I genuinely believe that is the right approach .
Now , it took us a long time to get to where we got to at the end of the administration .
I think that there were certain policies that we tried along the way to implement that focused approach , a more laser-like approach , that were maybe a little @ @ @ @ @ @ @ policy , and it took us a few iterations to get it right .
But we got it right .
So , look , we are the — Immigration and Customs Enforcement plays a valuable role in this country in terms of protecting public safety and enforcing our immigration laws .
It ’ s about how you execute that enforcement mission .
At the end of the day , ICE has the resources only to remove or deport a fraction of the undocumented population .
That fraction needs to be focused on those @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , those who violate our criminal laws , serious criminal laws .
So , no , I don ’ t have regrets in terms of the policies of the Obama administration or the use of ICE itself .
I just think it ’ s unfortunate today that ICE has become a political tool .
It ’ s unfair to the officers at ICE itself .
It gives the agency a terrible reputation , makes it very hard for them to execute their public safety mission .
And it ’ s very unfortunate that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ used as a political pawn here .
And it ’ s unfortunate to the immigrant communities that we ’ re taking this more arbitrary , randomized approach and wasting our taxpayer resources going after individuals who pose no threat to public safety and probably been here a long time and have U.S. citizen family members .
That approach itself is very shortsighted .
ANGELICA SALAS : I just want to say that we have to act now .
People will die if we do not take action .
Immigrants need to have the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
This is a moment in which we have to shut down these detention centers .
We have to shut down all these centers in which children are being housed .
If we are to save lives , we have to not forget the immigrant community .
AMY GOODMAN : We want to thank you both so much for being with us , Angelica Salas , executive director of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights in California , and John Sandweg , former acting director of ICE under Obama , now calling for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in the United States .
When we come back , we go to emergency room physician , former Baltimore commissioner of health , Dr. Leana Wen .
This is Democracy Now !
Stay with us .
AMY GOODMAN : That ’ s the high school choir of Chino Valley Unified School District in Chino , California , singing “ Somewhere Over the Rainbow.
” They found a way to remain connected after their school year was officially dismissed until May by joining together via video stream , because their concert was canceled , @ @ @ @ @ @ @

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. We’re broadcasting from New York, the epicenter of the pandemic in the United States. As the global death toll from the coronavirus pandemic tops 15,000, with more than 450 deaths here in the U.S., alarm is growing about the safety of more than 37,000 people detained at immigration detention centers and private jails that contract with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, where it’s nearly impossible to avoid close contact and follow social distancing to stop the spread of the virus. Nearly half of those detained by ICE are accused of no crime other than civil immigration violations. ICE says there are no confirmed cases of coronavirus among detained immigrants at the facilities it runs, but at least one worker has tested positive at the Elizabeth Detention Center in New Jersey who’s a member of the medical staff. Meanwhile, two people held at the Hudson County Correctional Facility in New Jersey have tested positive. Like detention centers, the jail holds people detained for civil immigration offenses and is now on lockdown for two weeks. Immigrants at Hudson and two other New Jersey jails are now on hunger strikes over unsanitary conditions amidst the pandemic.
This is part of a call recorded Friday with a man held in the immigrant detention at Essex County Correctional Facility. He has since been placed in solitary confinement.
DETAINED IMMIGRANT: We need help in here. Like, nobody is helping us. These people are doing what they want to do with us, because they feel like we are immigrants, and we don’t have no help. I do not want to die in here without me seeing my family. This is ridiculous. The people that give us our food is from outside. The COs — it’s cold outside every day — they’re going to catch this virus anytime and give it to us. I do not want to die without my family. It’s like ICE don’t even care. ICE don’t even come to speak to us about nothing. They just don’t care. The correctional officers are telling us all, “It’s ICE. It’s ICE.” It’s no answer. Like, they’re not telling us nothing.
AMY GOODMAN: On Sunday, the group Never Again Action organized a protest with nearly a hundred cars outside the Hudson County Detention Center to demand New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy release people being held there. Never Again also held an in-car protest outside California Governor Gavin Newsom’s home to call for the release of detainees.
NEVER AGAIN ACTION PROTESTER: Governor Newsom, we are once again asking you, we are begging you, to do the right thing, to release all those in ICE detention centers now, before it is too late. Release them now. There is no later.
AMY GOODMAN: More than 3,000 physicians have signed a letter calling for ICE to release people from detention while their legal cases proceed, especially those who are over 60 or have medical conditions that put them at higher risk of dying from COVID-19. There’s also growing concern about the spread of the coronavirus among immigrants detained by Customs and Border Protection at shelters for unaccompanied migrant children that are run by the federal Office of Refugee Resettlement. The news outlet Documented reports a staff member at Abbott House, a shelter in Irvington, New York, has tested positive for COVID-19 and placed all exposed migrant children held there in quarantine for 14 days. This comes as the Trump administration announced it will shift its enforcement operations to focus on dangerous individuals.
For more, we’re joined by two guests. In Phoenix, Arizona, John Sandweg is with us. He is former acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, ICE, during the Obama administration. He wrote a piece published Sunday by The Atlantic headlined “I Used to Run ICE. We Need to Release the Nonviolent Detainees: It’s the only way to protect detention facilities and the people in them from COVID-19.” And in Los Angeles, we’re joined by Angelica Salas, executive director of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights in California, or CHIRLA, which just led a national effort to stop immigration enforcement actions.
We welcome you both to Democracy Now! John Sandweg, let’s begin with you. You’re generally in Washington, but you’re in Phoenix, Arizona, right now. Talk about what you are calling for.
JOHN SANDWEG: Well, look, the immigration detention centers really are vulnerable to the outbreak of a contagious disease. During my time at ICE and my time at DHS, we had several outbreaks of contagious diseases. The nature of these facilities is such that it’s really impossible to engage in the social distancing that we’re all practicing right now. So, when you look at the population of ICE and who’s in those detention facilities, and you recognize that really only a small percentage pose any public safety threat, when you recognize that their immigration proceedings can continue even if they’re out of custody, and when you look at the thousands of ICE officers, contract guards and employees who have to go to those facilities every day, who frankly are just as much at risk of catching COVID-19 because of their exposure to the facilities themselves, it seems just very commonsensical to me to say, let’s go ahead and downsize the population of the detention centers dramatically, release these individuals. If you pose a threat to public safety, you stay in. Meanwhile, the immigration court proceedings, the deportation proceedings, will continue as planned, and ICE will just monitor you from an out-of-custody perspective. It just seems commonsensical to me at this point.
AMY GOODMAN: I mean, to say that there are no cases inside, and on the outside, in the free world in the United States, we really have no idea how many people are positive, because of the massive lack of tests, let alone what’s going on inside these refugee centers, these jails. Are you talking about thousands of people? And where are these detention centers?
JOHN SANDWEG: So, the detention centers are scattered across the United States. And as you kind of alluded to earlier, it’s really a hodgepodge of contract, private prison-run — that’s probably the largest — you know, probably close to the largest holder of ICE detainees are private prison companies that operate massive detention centers under contract with ICE; state and local jails across the country; and then a very small percentage are in actually federally owned facilities. So they’re scattered across the country. Oftentimes they’re mixed with the criminal population. And what’s strange about this is, you’re going to see some of these jails — this is, you know, across the country, courts and sheriff’s offices are looking at their populations, because they recognize the vulnerability in their jails, so they’re letting criminal detainees out. But in some of those very same facilities, the ICE detainees are going to be remain locked up, even though they have not, in many instances, been charged with a criminal offense, much less convicted of one.
AMY GOODMAN: I mean, they are being held pending legal action. Talk about who these people are and what power ICE has.
JOHN SANDWEG: Sure. ICE has complete authority to release anyone from immigration detention. They have a significant parole authority, and they can release someone even if they fall under what’s called mandatory detention under the immigration laws. But what you have in immigration detention is a mix. To be fair, there is a population there of people who were convicted of serious crimes, and in some cases violent crimes. We’re not talking about — I’m not talking about releasing those individuals. There are some individuals who pose a genuine public safety threat, that need to be detained. But in immigration, it’s different than the criminal system. We don’t engage in this kind of risk analysis where we look at whether or not you pose a public safety threat or a dramatic flight risk. What we’re looking at is whether or not you fall under certain categories under the immigration law that really aren’t designed to evaluate someone’s risk so much as they are just more almost — I wouldn’t say arbitrary, but almost arbitrary categories, where we say, “You are subject to detention, and you are not.” We’re also probably looking at a lot of immigrants who are eligible to be released pursuant to bail but just couldn’t afford to post the bail. So, unlike the criminal detention system, what you’re really going to see here is a very high percentage of individuals who I don’t think anyone, even some of the harder ICE officers, would look at the case and say, “Yeah, they generally pose a threat to public safety.” These are people who got caught up in the immigration system and, for one reason or another, are detained.
You know, and listen, one thing I want to be very clear about, I think there’s a misconception. People who go through the immigration court process, the actual majority of them are not detained. They’re being monitored by ICE. They might be under ankle bracelets or electric — you know, they have to report on a monthly basis to ICE. So, what we’re talking about is just saying, let’s let the immigration deportation proceedings continue. Nobody gets a free pass. Let’s just get them out of custody, because it makes it a lot safer for them but also makes it a lot safer for the ICE officers who have to go to those facilities every single day.
AMY GOODMAN: And we’re talking about how many people here? What? Thirty-seven thousand under ICE jurisdiction?
JOHN SANDWEG: The population fluctuates, of course, but, generally speaking, ICE is operating about 40,000 detention beds right now across the country. I would say about 37,000 are in detention. Now, the administration’s announcement that they’re going to stop arresting and detaining people on the front end, new people, who don’t pose a threat to public safety, is a great start. I have to compliment the administration for that. But it doesn’t really make any sense to do that and limit the flow of new people in, if you don’t also go ahead and discharge the people who don’t pose a threat to public safety who are already in your custody.
AMY GOODMAN: And have you spoken to people in the Trump administration, having been a former head of ICE yourself?
JOHN SANDWEG: Well, I have casual conversations with people at the department, but I have not engaged in any specific conversations about this. I will tell you, though, I know just from experience in dealing with similar outbreaks of infectious diseases — nothing on the scale of this, nothing as high-profile as this, though — but, really, the folks who are also deeply concerned about this are not just the advocacy world or the immigrant rights community, but the officers themselves. These are the folks who have to go home every day to their families, and they have to work inside these facilities. And it’s just as important to them that the facilities be operated in as safe a manner as possible, as it is to the detainees. I’m surprised — and I wouldn’t be surprised if we hear something soon from the ICE officers’ union or other officers themselves who also want to see similar measures taken to protect them.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to bring Angelica Salas into the conversation, executive director of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights in California, known as CHIRLA. Talk about John Sandweg’s proposal — just release, he’s saying, the overwhelmingly nonviolent detainees who are under ICE custody, because ICE — people who are in civil detention, because ICE has the supreme power simply to make that decision. Can you talk about that, and also what it means to be a person with a violent record? Aren’t these people who have already served time in prison, who are then put into the system, the ICE system, to be deported?
ANGELICA SALAS: Well, I agree wholeheartedly with John that we have to close these centers down. It is absolutely outrageous that everything in America has stopped, and our jails are releasing prisoners, and yet in our immigration detention centers we still have people at risk of dying. It is imperative that these centers be shut down immediately. And I think that, in my perspective, is that we need to release everyone in those detention centers. The Congress has appropriated billions of dollars in order to run these centers. In addition, there’s millions of dollars have been allocated for alternatives to detention, so there are resources to actually allow individuals to be released. And I want to remind everybody, these are mothers, these are fathers, these are human beings, and they should be treated no different than anybody else. So, we’re calling for an immediate shutdown of these detention centers. Individuals need to be released back to their homes. They have families whom they have to be with. So, our perspective is that — and during this time of crisis, once again, the immigrant community is being attacked, whether it’s on the enforcement side or in the detainee side.
And I also want to tell everybody that as we have individuals who are fighting their detention and their deportation, on the other side, there’s also immigration attorneys. And I have to tell you, I’m working with our immigration attorneys, who are saying, “What do we do? We have a horrible choice to make. We have to go into immigration courts to defend people who are in detention, so that they have their due process and they’re not deported from this country.” At the same time, they still have to put themselves out there to represent these detainees, to be able to fulfill justice even in this moment. We have to fully close our immigration courts, and we have to release these detainees and protect everybody involved. So I also want to talk about the immigration attorneys, who are still being heroic during this time, trying to defend immigrants. We just need to understand immigrants are human beings, and they need to be treated with dignity during this time. They need to be afforded what every other human being deserves, which is a chance to live.
AMY GOODMAN: At Sunday’s coronavirus briefing at the White House, a reporter asked President Trump if undocumented immigrants can go to testing sites without fear of then being deported. Vice President Pence said Customs and Border Protection has issued guidance that agents will not target emergency rooms or health clinics in search of undocumented immigrants, barring extraordinary circumstances. But this was Trump’s response.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The answer is, yes, we will do those tests, because I think, in that case, it’s important. I think that if — you could call — you could say “illegal alien.” You could say “illegal immigrant.” You could say whatever you want to use your definition of what you’re talking about. We’re all talking about the same thing. Yes, we will test that person, because I think it’s important that we test that person. And we don’t want to send that person back into wherever we’re going to be sending the person, whether it’s another country or someplace else, because, you know, we’re now bringing them right out of our country. But, yeah, we will test those people.
AMY GOODMAN: “We will test those people.” “It’s important because we’re sending them out of the country.” First I want to ask John Sandweg, and then Angelica Salas: Can you respond to what he just said: “Yes, so that we can deport them”?
JOHN SANDWEG: Well, listen, this is a public health issue, just like the detention centers themselves. I think it’s helpful for people to look at this not only about the health and safety of the undocumented immigrant or the detainee itself, but the public at large. If we have undocumented immigrants in our communities who are scared to go get testing, who might be symptomatic and certainly might be contagious, and they are hesitant to go be tested because of fear that ICE is going to take them into custody, it doesn’t just make that community unsafe, it makes all of us unsafe. So, again, this is a very simple, commonsense proposal, it seems to me, is that ICE needs to issue guidance making it abundantly clear that individuals who go for testing or seek medical treatment are not going to be taken into custody.
Now, the reality is this: ICE has no desire to take these individuals into custody. ICE is just as much scared of a breakout in one of their detention facilities as is the immigrant community. ICE is going to stay away from anybody who’s been diagnosed or tested or suspected of having COVID-19, simply because an outbreak is very difficult for ICE to handle internally and logistically, and exposes the ICE officers at risk themselves. Nevertheless, there’s a fear in the immigrant community about ICE, especially in the Trump administration. And this is something that we did during natural disasters on multiple occasions, hurricanes and otherwise, is put out a statement saying we’re not going to take people into custody who are seeking assistance. Something very similar needs to be done here, not just, again, for the safety of the community itself, but for all of our safety, so that these individuals can be tested and go into quarantine if they are in fact positive for COVID-19.
AMY GOODMAN: And, Angelica Salas, if you could respond, and specifically address children, I mean, who are separated all over this country — we don’t even know the numbers right now — and how they fit into this picture?
ANGELICA SALAS: CHIRLA’s perspective is that immigration enforcement needs to cease immediately. There is no reason that any person going for testing should actually be afraid that immigration will somehow come in contact with them. At this moment what we need to do is safeguard resources for this health crisis.
And so, what we’re asking for, number one, is that all immigrants, independent of their immigration status, have access to testing, that they also have access to the treatment if they are found to have the virus, that they are treated in the same way as any other human being during this moment. I want to let listeners understand that across this country immigrants, undocumented immigrants, don’t have the same access to the resources available to others. So this is a moment in which we say, because we are all interdependent, where we all actually are dependent on other people’s health for our own health, we need to make sure that immigrants have access to all the same level of care. And that also means that we increase resources to community clinics, which in many instances are places where the undocumented go for treatment. That is the first place that they will go. So we need to make sure that we also bolster up resources across this country so that immigrants have the same level of care. There should be no requirement for residency, citizenship status or any other kind of request for information for immigrants; otherwise, they’re not going to go move forward. And I tell you this because we run an immigrant assistance hotline, and we’re receiving these calls of individuals who are calling us just to make sure that they’re able to move forward with testing.
The last thing I also want to say with this is that immigrants are also the ones that are being laid off all over this country, who are losing their jobs, and they don’t have access to unemployment benefits, either. So, whether it’s access to care or access to just some level of economic support, they’re completely left out. And I want to tell America, we are part of this country. Immigrants are part of this country. We are the ones who have taken care of your children, of your elderly, who are putting food on your table right now. And just do not forget us, and make sure that immigrants are included in this moment of great peril for the rest of our — for our entire country.
AMY GOODMAN: Finally, John Sandweg, let me ask you — as you see what’s happening on the border, immigrants were afraid of the U.S. government long before Trump. Do you have any regrets about your role, or would you have done anything differently, as director of ICE under the Obama administration? Of course, we know millions of people were deported then. Trump has now taken what President Obama — the foundation he built, and, you know, taken it to a different level. But your thoughts on that?
JOHN SANDWEG: Well, look, we were focused — there’s a role for immigration enforcement in this country. We need to enforce our immigration laws. We need to have border security in this country. The Obama administration’s approach, however, was focused on those who pose a public safety threat and those who just recently compromised our border security, meaning people who just crossed the border. I genuinely believe that is the right approach. Now, it took us a long time to get to where we got to at the end of the administration. I think that there were certain policies that we tried along the way to implement that focused approach, a more laser-like approach, that were maybe a little slow or maybe were not the right policy, and it took us a few iterations to get it right. But we got it right.
So, look, we are the — Immigration and Customs Enforcement plays a valuable role in this country in terms of protecting public safety and enforcing our immigration laws. It’s about how you execute that enforcement mission. At the end of the day, ICE has the resources only to remove or deport a fraction of the undocumented population. That fraction needs to be focused on those who pose a threat to public safety, those who violate our criminal laws, serious criminal laws.
So, no, I don’t have regrets in terms of the policies of the Obama administration or the use of ICE itself. I just think it’s unfortunate today that ICE has become a political tool. It’s unfair to the officers at ICE itself. It gives the agency a terrible reputation, makes it very hard for them to execute their public safety mission. And it’s very unfortunate that immigration enforcement and the agency itself get used as a political pawn here. And it’s unfortunate to the immigrant communities that we’re taking this more arbitrary, randomized approach and wasting our taxpayer resources going after individuals who pose no threat to public safety and probably been here a long time and have U.S. citizen family members. That approach itself is very shortsighted.
AMY GOODMAN: And, Angelica Salas, 30 seconds.
ANGELICA SALAS: I just want to say that we have to act now. People will die if we do not take action. Immigrants need to have the same access to all type of healthcare. This is a moment in which we have to shut down these detention centers. We have to shut down all these centers in which children are being housed. If we are to save lives, we have to not forget the immigrant community.
AMY GOODMAN: We want to thank you both so much for being with us, Angelica Salas, executive director of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights in California, and John Sandweg, former acting director of ICE under Obama, now calling for the release of thousands in immigration detention in the United States.
When we come back, we go to emergency room physician, former Baltimore commissioner of health, Dr. Leana Wen. This is Democracy Now! Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: That’s the high school choir of Chino Valley Unified School District in Chino, California, singing “Somewhere Over the Rainbow.” They found a way to remain connected after their school year was officially dismissed until May by joining together via video stream, because their concert was canceled, to sing the song a cappella.


democracynow--2020-03-23--Headlines for March 23, 2020

Headlines for March 23, 2020

In Washington state , an outbreak at another nursing center is being reported , with at least one dead and dozens more infected .
Washington was one of the early epicenters of the pandemic in the U.S. at the Life Care Center of Kirkland , where the disease killed 35 people .
In Ohio , reproductive rights defenders are calling out attempts by Attorney General Dave Yost to close abortion clinics amid the coronavirus crisis by labeling abortions “ non-essential ” procedures .
State Senator Nickie Antonio said , “ Every woman who seeks an abortion knows it ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ especially in states like Ohio , which has drastically limited the window when abortions are allowed .
It is inexcusable that our state ’ s attorney would play politics with a global pandemic.
” In Florida , the University of Tampa and several other Florida colleges said a number of its students who celebrated spring break have tested positive for coronavirus , days after images of densely packed revelers on the state ’ s beaches went viral and caused outrage .
A Florida attorney is suing Governor Ron DeSantis to compel him to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to deal with the pandemic .
Hunger strikes are now underway in three Immigration and Customs Enforcement , or ICE , detention centers in New Jersey as prisoners call out deteriorating conditions and a failure to protect them from a potential outbreak of COVID-19 .
In media news , tributes poured in from NBC News hosts and other employees after longtime NBC audio technician Larry Edgeworth died of medical complications related to COVID-19 .
Dozens of Mike Bloomberg campaign staffers have been told they were exposed to coronavirus , just hours before they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ were set to lose their health insurance .
In other 2020 election news , Bernie Sanders ’ s campaign raised over $ 2 million for coronavirus charities in two days after making an appeal to supporters .
Indigenous communities say they have been neglected in the federal response to coronavirus as emergency funds and medical aid for tribal groups have been delayed .
On Friday , the Trump administration said it was limiting nonessential travel on the U.S.-Mexico border .
Despite the travel restrictions , construction of Trump ’ s border wall is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of infection and costing taxpayers billions of dollars as experts say the economy is already in a recession .
And nationwide , the deadline to file taxes has been extended three months to July 15 .
The deadline for the census has been extended by two weeks .

In Washington state, an outbreak at another nursing center is being reported, with at least one dead and dozens more infected. Washington was one of the early epicenters of the pandemic in the U.S. at the Life Care Center of Kirkland, where the disease killed 35 people.
In Ohio, reproductive rights defenders are calling out attempts by Attorney General Dave Yost to close abortion clinics amid the coronavirus crisis by labeling abortions “non-essential” procedures. State Senator Nickie Antonio said, “Every woman who seeks an abortion knows it’s an essential, time sensitive procedure — especially in states like Ohio, which has drastically limited the window when abortions are allowed. It is inexcusable that our state’s attorney would play politics with a global pandemic.”
In Florida, the University of Tampa and several other Florida colleges said a number of its students who celebrated spring break have tested positive for coronavirus, days after images of densely packed revelers on the state’s beaches went viral and caused outrage. A Florida attorney is suing Governor Ron DeSantis to compel him to close all of Florida’s beaches to deal with the pandemic.
Hunger strikes are now underway in three Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, detention centers in New Jersey as prisoners call out deteriorating conditions and a failure to protect them from a potential outbreak of COVID-19.
In media news, tributes poured in from NBC News hosts and other employees after longtime NBC audio technician Larry Edgeworth died of medical complications related to COVID-19.
Dozens of Mike Bloomberg campaign staffers have been told they were exposed to coronavirus, just hours before they were laid off and days before they were set to lose their health insurance. In other 2020 election news, Bernie Sanders’s campaign raised over $2 million for coronavirus charities in two days after making an appeal to supporters.
Indigenous communities say they have been neglected in the federal response to coronavirus as emergency funds and medical aid for tribal groups have been delayed.
On Friday, the Trump administration said it was limiting nonessential travel on the U.S.-Mexico border. Despite the travel restrictions, construction of Trump’s border wall is continuing, putting construction crews at risk of infection and costing taxpayers billions of dollars as experts say the economy is already in a recession.
And nationwide, the deadline to file taxes has been extended three months to July 15. The deadline for the census has been extended by two weeks.


democracynow--2020-03-24--"Top Priority Is Release": Will Rikers Island Free More Prisoners as 60+ Test Positive for COVID-19?

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The War and Peace Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Juan González .
This breaking news : The Olympics have been postponed for a year due to the coronavirus , the first time it ’ s been impacted by anything other than war .
Well , we ’ re going to turn right now to life behind bars , life and death .
COVID-19 has begun to spread in the U.S. prison system @ @ @ @ @ @ @ epicenter of the pandemic in the United States , at least 39 prisoners , 21 staff at Rikers Island have tested positive .
Mayor Bill de Blasio said Monday the city has released 75 people from Rikers , considering releasing up to 200 more .
But public defenders and advocates say the city must release thousands of incarcerated people to stem the spread of the virus and save lives .
Rikers is the country ’ s second-largest jail system , with nearly 5,300 people .
The independent news outlet The City reports correctional @ @ @ @ @ @ @ weekend when they tried to go to a jail clinic to check their temperatures after a possible COVID-19 case surfaced in their unit .
This comes as New Jersey says it will begin releasing up to a thousand people from its jail system in the pandemic .
For more , we ’ re joined by Dr. Homer Venters , a physician , former chief medical officer for New York City ’ s Correctional Health Services , his latest book titled Life and Death in Rikers Island , his recent piece for The Hill @ @ @ @ @ @ @ priorities to save the lives of prisoners.
” And again , Juan González is still with us from his home in New Brunswick ; Homer also joining us from his home , as people stay put to stop the spread of the virus .
Homer Venters , thanks so much for being with us .
What has to happen now at Rikers ?
DR. HOMER VENTERS : Well , the story of Rikers is a story of all 5,000 jails and prisons and ICE detention centers around the country .
The top priority @ @ @ @ @ @ @ out of these places , particularly those with health risks for serious injury and death .
Beyond release , we also have to make sure that the people who are still behind bars have access today to hospital-level care when they become sick .
We have to avoid the temptation to use lockdown as a public health intervention .
It ’ s not .
And we need to get the CDC and states to appoint high-level correctional health coordinators to make sure that these processes are happening and that patients who are behind @ @ @ @ @ @ @ level or lower level of access to healthcare .
AMY GOODMAN : So , Homer Venters , if you can talk about the — what we ’ re hearing right now , looks like 60 people , they say , have tested positive .
Do the thousands of people on Rikers — are they being tested ?
I mean , people in the free world do not have access to these tests .
Is everyone getting tested inside ?
DR. HOMER VENTERS : Well , I haven ’ t been in Rikers Island @ @ @ @ @ @ @ correctional health staff there .
One of the things that ’ s unique about Rikers Island is that the health service is independent .
It ’ s actually part of the public hospital system .
And so , their approach to testing symptomatic people is rooted in what they ’ re doing in the rest of the community .
So I have confidence that at Rikers Island , in that jail system , there is evidence-based approach to testing happening today .
But I will say that , as the doctors who lead @ @ @ @ @ @ @ last week , they are not able to stop the spread of this virus .
It comes from the community .
It comes into the jails and prisons .
It is impossible to keep this virus out of correctional settings .
And so the safest and most pressing objective is to find people who have these risk factors for a serious injury and serious illness and death , and get them out of the system .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : And , Homer Venters , we only have about a minute left , but @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Rikers ?
Isn ’ t the main treatment for illnesses at Bellevue Hospital , not on Rikers Island itself ?
DR. HOMER VENTERS : Well , there ’ s an inpatient ward at Bellevue Hospital .
There ’ s also the nation ’ s largest collection of negative-pressure cells , clinical cells , left over from the TB epidemic , over in the West Facility , called the Communicable Disease Unit , about 70 or 75 cells that can be used .
These are rooms that people are put in for observation .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ more resource , skills and smarts at Rikers Island in the health service than any other health service in the country .
But those folks who run that service have told us what we need to listen to , which is you have to get these patients who are at risk off the island and out of the system .
And it ’ s true all over the country .
AMY GOODMAN : Homer Venters , we want to thank you for being with us .
There ’ s so much more to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ In the corporate media , the only reason they ’ re talking about jails is because Harvey Weinstein , apparently , at Wende prison , has reportedly tested positive for COVID-19 .
Homer Venters is former chief medical officer for New York City ’ s Correctional Health Services , author of Life and Death in Rikers Island .
I want to thank the miraculous , amazing Democracy Now !
team for all of their work , at home and here .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Juan González .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. This breaking news: The Olympics have been postponed for a year due to the coronavirus, the first time it’s been impacted by anything other than war.
Well, we’re going to turn right now to life behind bars, life and death. COVID-19 has begun to spread in the U.S. prison system. In New York City, the epicenter of the pandemic in the United States, at least 39 prisoners, 21 staff at Rikers Island have tested positive. Mayor Bill de Blasio said Monday the city has released 75 people from Rikers, considering releasing up to 200 more. But public defenders and advocates say the city must release thousands of incarcerated people to stem the spread of the virus and save lives. Rikers is the country’s second-largest jail system, with nearly 5,300 people. The independent news outlet The City reports correctional officers at Rikers pepper-sprayed eight prisoners this weekend when they tried to go to a jail clinic to check their temperatures after a possible COVID-19 case surfaced in their unit. This comes as New Jersey says it will begin releasing up to a thousand people from its jail system in the pandemic.
For more, we’re joined by Dr. Homer Venters, a physician, former chief medical officer for New York City’s Correctional Health Services, his latest book titled Life and Death in Rikers Island, his recent piece for The Hill headlined “Coronavirus behind bars: 4 priorities to save the lives of prisoners.” And again, Juan González is still with us from his home in New Brunswick; Homer also joining us from his home, as people stay put to stop the spread of the virus.
Homer Venters, thanks so much for being with us. What has to happen now at Rikers?
DR. HOMER VENTERS: Well, the story of Rikers is a story of all 5,000 jails and prisons and ICE detention centers around the country. The top priority is release. We must get people out of these places, particularly those with health risks for serious injury and death. Beyond release, we also have to make sure that the people who are still behind bars have access today to hospital-level care when they become sick. We have to avoid the temptation to use lockdown as a public health intervention. It’s not. And we need to get the CDC and states to appoint high-level correctional health coordinators to make sure that these processes are happening and that patients who are behind bars don’t get a second level or lower level of access to healthcare.
AMY GOODMAN: So, Homer Venters, if you can talk about the — what we’re hearing right now, looks like 60 people, they say, have tested positive. Do the thousands of people on Rikers — are they being tested? I mean, people in the free world do not have access to these tests. Is everyone getting tested inside?
DR. HOMER VENTERS: Well, I haven’t been in Rikers Island. I have great confidence in the correctional health staff there. One of the things that’s unique about Rikers Island is that the health service is independent. It’s actually part of the public hospital system. And so, their approach to testing symptomatic people is rooted in what they’re doing in the rest of the community. So I have confidence that at Rikers Island, in that jail system, there is evidence-based approach to testing happening today.
But I will say that, as the doctors who lead that health service have said in the last week, they are not able to stop the spread of this virus. It comes from the community. It comes into the jails and prisons. It is impossible to keep this virus out of correctional settings. And so the safest and most pressing objective is to find people who have these risk factors for a serious injury and serious illness and death, and get them out of the system.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Homer Venters, we only have about a minute left, but what is the normal health situation at Rikers? Isn’t the main treatment for illnesses at Bellevue Hospital, not on Rikers Island itself?
DR. HOMER VENTERS: Well, there’s an inpatient ward at Bellevue Hospital. There’s also the nation’s largest collection of negative-pressure cells, clinical cells, left over from the TB epidemic, over in the West Facility, called the Communicable Disease Unit, about 70 or 75 cells that can be used. These are rooms that people are put in for observation. I will say that there’s more resource, skills and smarts at Rikers Island in the health service than any other health service in the country. But those folks who run that service have told us what we need to listen to, which is you have to get these patients who are at risk off the island and out of the system. And it’s true all over the country.
AMY GOODMAN: Homer Venters, we want to thank you for being with us. There’s so much more to talk about, and we will. In the corporate media, the only reason they’re talking about jails is because Harvey Weinstein, apparently, at Wende prison, has reportedly tested positive for COVID-19. Homer Venters is former chief medical officer for New York City’s Correctional Health Services, author of Life and Death in Rikers Island.
I want to thank the miraculous, amazing Democracy Now! team for all of their work, at home and here. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.


democracynow--2020-03-24--"Humanitarian Solidarity": Even Under U.S. Sanctions, Cuba Sends Doctor Brigade to Italy and More

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Juan González , as we turn to look at the Cuban doctors who are helping countries like Italy fight the coronavirus .
As Italy ’ s death toll tops 6,000 with nearly 64,000 confirmed cases , it ’ s the epicenter of the pandemic in Europe .
This weekend , a brigade of more than 50 Cuban doctors and nurses arrived in Lombardy , one of the worst-affected regions in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for international help .
This is Dr. Graciliano Díaz speaking Sunday before embarking to Italy .
AMY GOODMAN : This is the sixth medical brigade Cuba has sent to other countries to combat the spread of COVID-19 .
Cuba has also deployed doctors to Venezuela , Nicaragua , Jamaica , Suriname and Grenada .
The international effort comes as many Cuban hospitals are scrambling for resources , and Cuban residents say they ’ re having difficulty finding medicine — a struggle the Cuban government attributes to decades-old U.S. economic sanctions .
Cuba announced @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Friday .
This came just two days after allowing a British cruise ship with at least a thousand passengers and staff to dock on the island after five people on board tested positive with COVID-19 .
As the ship reached the Cuban harbor of Mariel last Wednesday , British cruise ship crew members held a banner that read “ I love you , Cuba.
” For more , we ’ re joined by Peter Kornbluh , director of the National Security Archive ’ s Cuba Documentation Project at George Washington University , covers @ @ @ @ @ @ @ his new column is headlined “ Cuba ’ s Welcome to a Covid-19-Stricken Cruise Ship Reflects a Long Pattern of Global Humanitarian Commitment.
” Also with us , Juan González from his home in New Brunswick , New Jersey .
Peter , it ’ s great to have you with us .
Can you talk about several things ?
One is what Cuba is doing at home , sending out the brigades , like to Italy right now , brigades of Cuban doctors , and then also experimental treatments they ’ re working @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
PETER KORNBLUH : Well , Amy , you know , the arrival of a medical brigade from Cuba to Italy is pretty historic .
You have a leading European nation accepting support in the form of a medical team from a small Caribbean island .
And it just goes to the history of Cuba ’ s deep and long-lasting commitment to humanitarian solidarity with other countries .
And Cuba has done this before .
They were on the frontlines of the fight against Ebola in Africa .
They received the utmost compliments @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , at the time .
As she pointed out , that ’ s an awesome thing for a country of 11 million people to be sending doctors to Africa to fight Ebola .
And it ’ s a similarly awesome thing for Cuba to be sending doctors to Italy as part of a worldwide effort , really , to fight this pandemic .
Cuba faces the spread of the virus on the island now .
They ’ ve only had one reported death so far , but more than a thousand people are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ cases have been confirmed .
Hopefully , the closing of the borders , or , as the Cuban officials say , the regulation of their borders , keeping nonresidents and tourists out for at least a month , if not longer , will kind of stem the spread of the virus , which of course has come from abroad .
And Cuba ’ s resources are going to be extremely strained in this situation , and in part because the Trump administration has , over these last months , levied these sanctions against @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from Venezuela , but it ’ s part of a regime change program in Venezuela and in Cuba that the Trump administration is running .
And I think one of the key points here for all of us to consider is , we really have met the common enemy of humanity , and it ’ s not communism , and it ’ s not socialism , and it ’ s not what it ’ s been .
It ’ s an invisible disease .
And Cuba actually has a significant contribution to make @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in terms of the medicines you refer to , the Interferon Alpha 2B , that they ’ ve developed over the years , that is useful in fighting viruses like this one .
And this is an expertise that the world needs and that the United States could benefit from .
So the whole issue of continuing to sanction Cuba and making it more difficult for them to fight the virus at home and contribute to fighting the virus abroad doesn ’ t make any sense at all and is not in our @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the interest of humanity right now .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : Peter , if you could talk a little bit more about this Interferon Alpha 2B , which , as I understand it , was also utilized by the Chinese in China as they were fighting the epidemic there ?
And is it true that Cuba and China together have a plant that ’ s producing some of these medicines in China ?
Because we ’ re in a situation now where it was just a few weeks ago that Bernie Sanders was raked @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for daring to say that Cuba had a good health system and education system , but now we ’ re seeing a situation where even the Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro , who had expelled Cuban doctors when he came to power , is now open to the possibility of their coming back to help him fight the COVID-19 virus in Brazil .
PETER KORNBLUH : It ’ s an extraordinary irony , Juan , that the Brazilians , as soon as Bolsonaro came to power , kicked the 8,000 or so Cuban doctors @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Trump administration , and the same thing happened in Bolivia , and now both of those countries understand the benefits that these thousands of Cuban doctors were providing to their societies , which nobody else will provide .
And so , it would be the ultimate irony if Cuban doctors did return to a country like Brazil .
The interferon medicine was developed and patented by Cuba in the 1980s .
It ’ s been around for almost 40 years .
And the Cubans and Chinese have manufactured it in bulk in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it as one of 30 medicines that it was using to fight the spread of the coronavirus and the outbreak there .
It bolsters the immune system , so it ’ s part of a package of medicines .
It ’ s not the end-all , cure-all medicine , a stand-alone type of medicine , but it ’ s part of a package that may well prove very useful to fighting the spread of this pandemic .
AMY GOODMAN : And finally , the effect of the U.S. sanctions , especially at this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ can talk about that ?
And is there any effort in the U.S. Congress to ease those sanctions in this time of a pandemic ?
PETER KORNBLUH : Amy , we ’ re in a time when we really do need sanctions relief for countries that are struggling and people who are dying .
And Cuba is the obvious candidate for Trump to , you know , be much more realistic and set his priorities straight here .
We are in a fight against a common enemy , and Cuba is a country @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that struggle .
And Cuba should not be hamstrung and handicapped by U.S. sanctions .
The United States is penalizing boats , shipping companies that ship food and petroleum to Cuba .
And this has already weakened the Cuban economy , and the Cuban economy is going to be even weaker with the cutoff of the borders and the end of tourism for the foreseeable future .
There is a movement in Washington , led by the Center for Democracy in the Americas , to put forth a petition , with some congressional @ @ @ @ @ @ @ relief against Cuba .
And we ’ ll see if that gains some traction and momentum in the coming days .
Your audience should keep an eye out for it , support this petition , because Cuba really deserves to have a free hand , free of the ridiculous and outrageous sanctions and penalties and intervention of the United States , particularly at this time that it has such a contribution to make to the state of the world community .
AMY GOODMAN : And then maybe Cuba could send Cuban doctors to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
PETER KORNBLUH : That ’ s right .
I mean , we need help .
They need help .
But what they need right now is the ability to get petroleum , to have mobility on their island , some support from the world community .
And they deserve that support .
We haven ’ t even talked about the cruise ship from Britain that they helped .
They were the only country in the Caribbean .
After four or five other countries turned this corona-stricken ship away , Cuba was the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , come .
We ’ ll facilitate you flying back to Great Britain.
” And it was a tremendous humanitarian gesture .
And I think it will be remembered by the European countries , by the world community .
AMY GOODMAN : We want to thank you , Peter Kornbluh .
We ’ re going to be coming back to you over these days , director of the National Security Archive ’ s Cuba Documentation Project at George Washington University .
When we come back , the pandemic spreads to New York City @ @ @ @ @ @ @ thousands are locked up and are reporting terrible conditions as the pandemic spreads behind the bars .
Stay with us .
AMY GOODMAN : “ The Era Is Giving Birth to a New Heart ” by the Cuban musician Silvio Rodríguez .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González, as we turn to look at the Cuban doctors who are helping countries like Italy fight the coronavirus. As Italy’s death toll tops 6,000 with nearly 64,000 confirmed cases, it’s the epicenter of the pandemic in Europe. This weekend, a brigade of more than 50 Cuban doctors and nurses arrived in Lombardy, one of the worst-affected regions in Italy, in response to a plea for international help. This is Dr. Graciliano Díaz speaking Sunday before embarking to Italy.
DR. GRACILIANO DÍAZ: [translated] This is a challenge for me, and even more so for Cuban medicine. We Cubans must depart and fulfill this honorable work, which nearly all Cubans have trained for and is based on the principles of solidarity.
DR. LEONARDO FERNANDEZ: [translated] We’re all afraid, but there is revolutionary work to do. Fear can be controlled and put to the side. Whoever says that he isn’t afraid is a superhero. And we are not superheroes. We are revolutionary doctors.
AMY GOODMAN: This is the sixth medical brigade Cuba has sent to other countries to combat the spread of COVID-19. Cuba has also deployed doctors to Venezuela, Nicaragua, Jamaica, Suriname and Grenada. The international effort comes as many Cuban hospitals are scrambling for resources, and Cuban residents say they’re having difficulty finding medicine — a struggle the Cuban government attributes to decades-old U.S. economic sanctions. Cuba announced a temporary travel ban for non-Cuban residents Friday. This came just two days after allowing a British cruise ship with at least a thousand passengers and staff to dock on the island after five people on board tested positive with COVID-19. As the ship reached the Cuban harbor of Mariel last Wednesday, British cruise ship crew members held a banner that read “I love you, Cuba.”
For more, we’re joined by Peter Kornbluh, director of the National Security Archive’s Cuba Documentation Project at George Washington University, covers Cuba for The Nation magazine, where his new column is headlined “Cuba’s Welcome to a Covid-19-Stricken Cruise Ship Reflects a Long Pattern of Global Humanitarian Commitment.” Also with us, Juan González from his home in New Brunswick, New Jersey.
Peter, it’s great to have you with us. Can you talk about several things? One is what Cuba is doing at home, sending out the brigades, like to Italy right now, brigades of Cuban doctors, and then also experimental treatments they’re working on, like interferon, at home.
PETER KORNBLUH: Well, Amy, you know, the arrival of a medical brigade from Cuba to Italy is pretty historic. You have a leading European nation accepting support in the form of a medical team from a small Caribbean island. And it just goes to the history of Cuba’s deep and long-lasting commitment to humanitarian solidarity with other countries. And Cuba has done this before. They were on the frontlines of the fight against Ebola in Africa. They received the utmost compliments from our U.N. ambassador, Samantha Power, at the time. As she pointed out, that’s an awesome thing for a country of 11 million people to be sending doctors to Africa to fight Ebola. And it’s a similarly awesome thing for Cuba to be sending doctors to Italy as part of a worldwide effort, really, to fight this pandemic.
Cuba faces the spread of the virus on the island now. They’ve only had one reported death so far, but more than a thousand people are under observation, and more than 40 cases have been confirmed. Hopefully, the closing of the borders, or, as the Cuban officials say, the regulation of their borders, keeping nonresidents and tourists out for at least a month, if not longer, will kind of stem the spread of the virus, which of course has come from abroad. And Cuba’s resources are going to be extremely strained in this situation, and in part because the Trump administration has, over these last months, levied these sanctions against Cuba, ostensibly to push it away from Venezuela, but it’s part of a regime change program in Venezuela and in Cuba that the Trump administration is running.
And I think one of the key points here for all of us to consider is, we really have met the common enemy of humanity, and it’s not communism, and it’s not socialism, and it’s not what it’s been. It’s an invisible disease. And Cuba actually has a significant contribution to make in terms of trained medical staff, in terms of the medicines you refer to, the Interferon Alpha 2B, that they’ve developed over the years, that is useful in fighting viruses like this one. And this is an expertise that the world needs and that the United States could benefit from. So the whole issue of continuing to sanction Cuba and making it more difficult for them to fight the virus at home and contribute to fighting the virus abroad doesn’t make any sense at all and is not in our interests. It’s not in the interest of humanity right now.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Peter, if you could talk a little bit more about this Interferon Alpha 2B, which, as I understand it, was also utilized by the Chinese in China as they were fighting the epidemic there? And is it true that Cuba and China together have a plant that’s producing some of these medicines in China? Because we’re in a situation now where it was just a few weeks ago that Bernie Sanders was raked over the coals by the commercial media for daring to say that Cuba had a good health system and education system, but now we’re seeing a situation where even the Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, who had expelled Cuban doctors when he came to power, is now open to the possibility of their coming back to help him fight the COVID-19 virus in Brazil.
PETER KORNBLUH: It’s an extraordinary irony, Juan, that the Brazilians, as soon as Bolsonaro came to power, kicked the 8,000 or so Cuban doctors out to kind of cozy up to the Trump administration, and the same thing happened in Bolivia, and now both of those countries understand the benefits that these thousands of Cuban doctors were providing to their societies, which nobody else will provide. And so, it would be the ultimate irony if Cuban doctors did return to a country like Brazil.
The interferon medicine was developed and patented by Cuba in the 1980s. It’s been around for almost 40 years. And the Cubans and Chinese have manufactured it in bulk in a plant in China. China picked it as one of 30 medicines that it was using to fight the spread of the coronavirus and the outbreak there. It bolsters the immune system, so it’s part of a package of medicines. It’s not the end-all, cure-all medicine, a stand-alone type of medicine, but it’s part of a package that may well prove very useful to fighting the spread of this pandemic.
AMY GOODMAN: And finally, the effect of the U.S. sanctions, especially at this time, on Cuba, if you can talk about that? And is there any effort in the U.S. Congress to ease those sanctions in this time of a pandemic?
PETER KORNBLUH: Amy, we’re in a time when we really do need sanctions relief for countries that are struggling and people who are dying. And Cuba is the obvious candidate for Trump to, you know, be much more realistic and set his priorities straight here. We are in a fight against a common enemy, and Cuba is a country that can make a significant contribution to that struggle. And Cuba should not be hamstrung and handicapped by U.S. sanctions. The United States is penalizing boats, shipping companies that ship food and petroleum to Cuba. And this has already weakened the Cuban economy, and the Cuban economy is going to be even weaker with the cutoff of the borders and the end of tourism for the foreseeable future.
There is a movement in Washington, led by the Center for Democracy in the Americas, to put forth a petition, with some congressional support, for lifting sanctions, sanctions relief against Cuba. And we’ll see if that gains some traction and momentum in the coming days. Your audience should keep an eye out for it, support this petition, because Cuba really deserves to have a free hand, free of the ridiculous and outrageous sanctions and penalties and intervention of the United States, particularly at this time that it has such a contribution to make to the state of the world community.
AMY GOODMAN: And then maybe Cuba could send Cuban doctors to the United States for help right now.
PETER KORNBLUH: That’s right. I mean, we need help. They need help. But what they need right now is the ability to get petroleum, to have mobility on their island, some support from the world community. And they deserve that support. We haven’t even talked about the cruise ship from Britain that they helped. They were the only country in the Caribbean. After four or five other countries turned this corona-stricken ship away, Cuba was the only country that said, “Sure, come. We’ll facilitate you flying back to Great Britain.” And it was a tremendous humanitarian gesture. And I think it will be remembered by the European countries, by the world community.
AMY GOODMAN: We want to thank you, Peter Kornbluh. We’re going to be coming back to you over these days, director of the National Security Archive’s Cuba Documentation Project at George Washington University.
When we come back, the pandemic spreads to New York City’s notorious Rikers Island, where thousands are locked up and are reporting terrible conditions as the pandemic spreads behind the bars. Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: “The Era Is Giving Birth to a New Heart” by the Cuban musician Silvio Rodríguez.