democracynow--2020-09-08--The Police Can't Be Judge, Jury & Executioner: Filmmaker Yoruba Richen on Killing of Breonna Taylor

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Hundreds of antiracist protesters faced armed right-wing men brandishing long guns in Louisville , Kentucky , Saturday as they gathered ahead of the Kentucky Derby to demand justice for Breonna Taylor , the 26-year-old Black emergency room technician who was fatally shot by Louisville police in her own home in March .
Protesters hoped to use the 146th Kentucky Derby , already months delayed @ @ @ @ @ @ @ attention to Taylor ’ s case .
They said police did little to intervene as a group of mainly white armed so-called counterprotesters carrying American flags chanted “ U.S.A. ” and “ Back the blue ” and attempted to intimidate the demonstrators .
On Monday , the Louisville mayor announced a new interim police chief , Yvette Gentry .
She ’ s the first Black woman to fill the role .
This comes as more then 1,200 new photos of the crime scene at the Louisville apartment where police shot and killed Breonna @ @ @ @ @ @ @ unfolded on March 13th , when plainclothes police officers using a no-knock search warrant broke down Breonna Taylor ’ s door supposedly in search of drugs .
Taylor was in bed with her boyfriend Kenneth Walker , who reached for his gun and fired a shot , thinking there was an intruder in the apartment .
Three officers then opened fire , hitting Breonna Taylor five times .
The crime scene photos show bullet holes and pieces of bullets in every room of the apartment and in two adjacent apartments .
One of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ fired in June for shooting blindly from outside of the apartment , including through a covered patio window and door into Breonna ’ s bedroom .
The other two officers , Jonathan Mattingly and Myles Cosgrove , are on administrative leave .
But none of the officers who killed Breonna Taylor have been charged .
On Friday , The New York Times released a documentary about Breonna Taylor ’ s life and death .
It ’ s called The Killing of Breonna Taylor .
This is the trailer .
AMY GOODMAN : That @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of Breonna Taylor .
It ’ s airing on FX and FX on Hulu .
Well , for more , we go to Newburgh , New York , where we ’ re joined by the film ’ s director and producer Yoruba Richen .
She ’ s the director of the documentary program at the Graduate School of Journalism at CUNY .
We welcome you back to Democracy Now !
It ’ s great to have you with us , Yoruba .
Can you talk about this six months after the killing of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has happened , but start with what we know about that fateful night .
YORUBA RICHEN : Thank you , Amy .
It ’ s great to be here again and to see you and to be on the show .
What we know about that night is that there were five no-knock warrants that the Louisville Metro Police Department , LMPD , were able to obtain , five warrants on different apartments , one of who was Breonna Taylor ’ s ex-boyfriend , Jamarcus Glover , and one of which was on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ were able to obtain these warrants because they say they had evidence that showed that Breonna was going to — was seen at Jamarcus Glover ’ s house in January and , you know , sometime in February , that Jamarcus had used her name — her address as his address .
And they said that was the — that was the reason they gave for thinking that there may be drugs or money at Breonna ’ s apartment .
Now , the lawyers and Breonna ’ s family say that that was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ fact , in order to obtain these warrants , you need to have very up-to-date information , in the last 42 or 78 hours .
And the last time , apparently , that they had updated this information was in February , and this event occurred on March 13th .
So , there ’ s an issue with whether these warrants were valid .
We know that the warrants were — the warrant at Breonna ’ s house was not executed correctly , because she ended up dead .
The way that — @ @ @ @ @ @ @ were executed , if they announced — if the police announced themselves loud enough .
The police say that they did announce themselves as they were breaking into the apartment .
Kenneth Walker , her boyfriend , who was the survivor of that night , says he didn ’ t hear them .
And as a legal , licensed gun owner , as they were breaking into his apartment , he shot one shot , because he thought they were being broken into .
He didn ’ t know what was happening .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ of shots , and Breonna was killed .
And then , after that , Kenny was taken into custody immediately , and we have harrowing video from the neighbor you see in the film of him being taken into custody and being — you know , saying that he didn ’ t know what happened .
We thought — they were lying , they were in bed , you know , when they heard the doors being banged on .
And he ended up spending two weeks in jail , until he was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ t know what happened .
You know , he found out on the news what happened to his girlfriend , when he was in prison .
Meanwhile , Tamika Palmer , Breonna ’ s mother , had gotten a call from Kenny that night as these events were happening .
She ended up rushing down to Breonna ’ s apartment .
She doesn ’ t live far to the apartment complex .
She was told by the officers , by the police there , to go to the hospital , when no @ @ @ @ @ @ @ unclear why they told her to do that .
She waited there , the hospital , for a couple hours .
The hospital told her that , you know , there ’ s no one that has — you know , that no one has been — that Breonna was not there .
Then she went back and waited , to the apartment complex , waited a few more hours , and then finally asked — was told that Breonna was still in the apartment .
And so , she knew that she @ @ @ @ @ @ @ dead , when she found that out .
And she did not know that police had shot her , until the next day on the news .
She was not given this information .
So , it ’ s that — AMY GOODMAN : I wanted to go back , Yoruba , with Kenneth Walker , her boyfriend .
AMY GOODMAN : I mean , he takes his legal weapon — they ’ re in bed , their house is broken into — and he fires a shot .
He then calls the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ heard , he ’ s calling the police to ask for help for an intruder .
YORUBA RICHEN : Absolutely .
He called the police himself .
He had previously called , as I said , Tamika and his — Breonna ’ s mom , and his own mom .
And then called the police .
And he ’ s — yeah , I mean , it ’ s right in the call .
You hear what he ’ s saying .
He ’ s saying he doesn ’ t know what ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
And he ’ s crying .
So — AMY GOODMAN : I want to go to a longer version of that clip , that 911 call that Kenneth Walker makes to the police that night .
YORUBA RICHEN : I mean , it ’ s absolutely — I think you hear the — I mean , you hear it all in his voice .
He doesn ’ t know what ’ s happened .
Breonna is shot , on the floor .
You know , I can only — I can ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ like for him .
You know , they were in bed , lying in bed .
He describes that night .
He hears — they hear the breaking in of the door .
They get dressed really as quickly as possible .
Breonna is screaming out , “ Who is it ?
Who is it ?
” Kenneth said there ’ s no answer .
Kenny says there ’ s no answer , no answer .
And then , when they breach , when the door comes — you know , breach the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ falling in , is when he let off a shot , because he thought they were being broken into .
AMY GOODMAN : So , I want to go to another clip from your film , The Killing of Breonna Taylor , where we hear from one of Breonna ’ s neighbors , who wished to remain unnamed , but first to Breonna ’ s mother , Tamika Palmer .
AMY GOODMAN : And in this clip from the documentary The Killing of Breonna Taylor , we hear from Donavis Duncan , a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ same apartment complex as Breonna , but first , Breonna ’ s mother , Tamika Palmer .
AMY GOODMAN : Again , that was Breonna ’ s mother , Tamika Palmer , and , before that , Donavis Duncan .
Tell us about the Louisville police officer who lives in the same complex .
YORUBA RICHEN : Well , Officer Duncan , he lives in the complex that Breonna lived in , and he does security there .
So , he — it ’ s kind of like his second job .
So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ events , you know , what was going on , until he got a call on his — or , until he was notified .
And then he went down there to see what ’ s going on , so he was in the dark , as well .
And he was really just trying to help the process along , I guess , in terms of separating the public from what was happening around Breonna ’ s apartment .
AMY GOODMAN : So , it ’ s six months ago this week @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the timeline , Yoruba , on the reaction then , what people understood , and then what happened after the killing of George Floyd , how this case has grown to the point where this weekend at the Kentucky Derby , six months later , the massive protests are happening , the protests on the property of the attorney general , the first African American attorney general of Kentucky , and so much more .
YORUBA RICHEN : Yeah .
So , after March 13th , the night she was — the early @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was killed , there was — Tamika did not get much information , or any information really , from the police .
And she called a lawyer , Sam Aguiar and Lonita Baker , who are her representatives , and went in to meet with them .
And they immediately were struck by what had been in the press .
And the press had said , “ Drug suspect killed , ” or “ Suspect killed in drug probe.
” That ’ s how they were — you know , that ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ” And that ’ s how it was being presented .
And there was a sense that something was off here , that this was not the entire story .
So , they started to take on the case and doing their own investigation .
Meanwhile , the friends and family of Breonna started on social media and saying that this narrative was wrong that the media was putting out there .
Kenny was still in jail .
He was being called , you know , a cop — shooting a cop .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ a suspect in a drug probe .
And they knew that this was not — you know , that this was not the story .
So they began to tweeting and putting their social — you know , putting the information out on social media that this needs to be investigated , we need to know what ’ s going on , Kenny needs to be freed .
And still , it wasn ’ t until the killing of George Floyd that this case — and then , of course , corona shut @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this .
And combined with that and the fact that there was no video in this case , as there had been video in these other harrowing events of Black people being shot by police — wasn ’ t the case here that there was video , or at least video that was being released .
We don ’ t actually know what video is out there , because the LMPD has not given any information , nor have the results of either investigation are released — and I ’ ll get to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was the killing of George Floyd that people started to focus more attention on what happened to Breonna Taylor .
And in the city of Louisville itself , we get protests , and repeated protests began and really , really elevated , until there was a takeover of Jefferson Square , which is an area right in the downtown Louisville , where all the LMPD is , where the courts are , and the protesters took over that square and renamed it Breonna Taylor — renamed it for Breonna Taylor .
So , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that , of course , the national and international attention .
Now , at the same time , the reason why the protests have escalated , because the LMPD has not released any information , pretty much , and in fact they put out a blank incident report a couple months later that said that there were no injuries to Breonna .
And that just enraged people even more .
AMY GOODMAN : I mean , this is absolutely amazing .
This incident report , when it says injuries , it says “ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ used to enter the apartment , it says “ none , ” when , of course , they used a battering ram .
And , of course , Breonna Taylor was shot multiple times .
YORUBA RICHEN : It ’ s an outrage .
I mean , what else can you say ?
And it fueled the anger of the community , rightly so .
And meanwhile , the LMPD , again , has said nothing .
At that point , Hankison , one of the officers , was fired , but that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ happen .
And the other officers are still employed by the LMPD .
Also , the investigations — so , there are two investigations that are going on that people are waiting for .
The attorney general , Daniel Cameron , who you mentioned , he has — it ’ s an independent investigation that was turned over to his office , and then the FBI has been investigating , as well .
And the attorney general are investigating — the investigation in his office are looking at the events that happened that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s given no timeline of when those results will be released .
We found out a big thing that folks were waiting for , that we were told that people were waiting — you know , that the investigation was waiting for , is the ballistics report , which will show which officer — which bullets hit Breonna .
So that ’ s still unknown .
And that ’ s part of the reason — that ’ s the reason why no officers have been charged , because they do not know which @ @ @ @ @ @ @ them which officers — which bullets hit Breonna .
We found out , I believe last week , the beginning of last week , that those ballistics reports has been released .
They ’ re in the AG ’ s hands , but yet still no timeline on when the results will be released .
AMY GOODMAN : So , let ’ s talk about Hankison for a minute , because you go deeply into his record , and , to say the least , you flesh it out .
Hankison is the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ apartment through a window , and he ’ s the one who ’ s fired for what ?
Firing blindly .
AMY GOODMAN : But he — after Breonna ’ s death , a woman saw the names of the officers and said , “ My god , that ’ s the guy who went after me , who assaulted me , sexually harassed me.
” AMY GOODMAN : Explain Hankison ’ s record , now that ’ s coming out more and more as one woman after another comes out .
YORUBA @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has a record , previous to this , of charges , an excessive force and different charges filed in his police record .
And none of that — you know , all of those have been either cleared or dismissed .
So , there ’ s that .
Then , as you mentioned , when this case started getting attention , a young woman , who we interviewed in the film , wrote on Facebook about her encounter with Hankison at a bar , where he does security and asked her if she @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
And she said yes .
You know , he was an officer .
She , you know , thought — AMY GOODMAN : In his uniform .
He picks her up .
AMY GOODMAN : She was walking home from the bar , about 10 minutes away , and he pulled over , said , “ Do you want me to give you a ride home ?
” YORUBA RICHEN : Exactly .
And she gets in the car .
She says immediately he starts rubbing her leg , calling her “ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ getting really scared .
She knew this was wrong .
And when she gets out , she — when she gets to her house , she flies out of the car and , you know , goes — tries to get away from him as quickly as possible .
She texts her friend that night that this — what happened , and that he was an officer and this creepy — what , she says , “ creepy cop ” did to her .
And her friend immediately files a report on the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
And no response .
Then , as this case comes to light , she tells her boyfriend — Emily tells her boyfriend that that ’ s the same cop .
He calls the LMPD and files — tries to file a complaint .
Nothing .
So she posted on Facebook .
She posts what ’ s happened to her on Facebook , and she starts getting all of these other women coming forward , a few other women coming forward and saying they did — they had similar encounters with Hankison , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with Hankison .
And two of the women , Emily and a woman named Margo Borders , have talked to the FBI in their investigation of this case .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
Hundreds of antiracist protesters faced armed right-wing men brandishing long guns in Louisville, Kentucky, Saturday as they gathered ahead of the Kentucky Derby to demand justice for Breonna Taylor, the 26-year-old Black emergency room technician who was fatally shot by Louisville police in her own home in March. Protesters hoped to use the 146th Kentucky Derby, already months delayed due to the pandemic, to draw attention to Taylor’s case. They said police did little to intervene as a group of mainly white armed so-called counterprotesters carrying American flags chanted “U.S.A.” and “Back the blue” and attempted to intimidate the demonstrators.
On Monday, the Louisville mayor announced a new interim police chief, Yvette Gentry. She’s the first Black woman to fill the role.
This comes as more then 1,200 new photos of the crime scene at the Louisville apartment where police shot and killed Breonna Taylor show a scene of chaos that unfolded on March 13th, when plainclothes police officers using a no-knock search warrant broke down Breonna Taylor’s door supposedly in search of drugs. Taylor was in bed with her boyfriend Kenneth Walker, who reached for his gun and fired a shot, thinking there was an intruder in the apartment. Three officers then opened fire, hitting Breonna Taylor five times. The crime scene photos show bullet holes and pieces of bullets in every room of the apartment and in two adjacent apartments.
One of the officers, Brett Hankison, was fired in June for shooting blindly from outside of the apartment, including through a covered patio window and door into Breonna’s bedroom. The other two officers, Jonathan Mattingly and Myles Cosgrove, are on administrative leave. But none of the officers who killed Breonna Taylor have been charged.
On Friday, The New York Times released a documentary about Breonna Taylor’s life and death. It’s called The Killing of Breonna Taylor. This is the trailer.
KENNETH WALKER: The last thing she said was “Turn off the TV.” The next thing I remember is a loud bang at the door.
911 OPERATOR: 911. Where is your emergency?
KENNETH WALKER: Somebody kicked in the door and shot my girlfriend. Bre! Help!
TAMIKA PALMER: No one never told me really what happened. I didn’t find out that she was shot by a police officer ’til I saw it on the news.
KATRINA CURRY: She had a very inviting personality. She always had like a problem-solver attitude.
PREONIA FLAKES: The media tried to assassinate Breonna’s character. We can’t keep quiet.
SAM AGUIAR: Immediately there were red flags. There were bullet holes everywhere. It was a war zone in there.
TOM WINE: Once the shooting occurred, they never searched the apartment any further.
PROTESTERS: Say her name! Breonna Taylor!
REP. CHARLES BOOKER: Justice needs to be rendered. The question is: Will that happen?
TAMIKA PALMER: It has to stop.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s the trailer for The Killing of Breonna Taylor. It’s airing on FX and FX on Hulu.
Well, for more, we go to Newburgh, New York, where we’re joined by the film’s director and producer Yoruba Richen. She’s the director of the documentary program at the Graduate School of Journalism at CUNY.
We welcome you back to Democracy Now! It’s great to have you with us, Yoruba. Can you talk about this six months after the killing of Breonna Taylor? Take us through what has happened, but start with what we know about that fateful night.
YORUBA RICHEN: Thank you, Amy. It’s great to be here again and to see you and to be on the show.
What we know about that night is that there were five no-knock warrants that the Louisville Metro Police Department, LMPD, were able to obtain, five warrants on different apartments, one of who was Breonna Taylor’s ex-boyfriend, Jamarcus Glover, and one of which was on Breonna Taylor’s apartment. They were able to obtain these warrants because they say they had evidence that showed that Breonna was going to — was seen at Jamarcus Glover’s house in January and, you know, sometime in February, that Jamarcus had used her name — her address as his address. And they said that was the — that was the reason they gave for thinking that there may be drugs or money at Breonna’s apartment.
Now, the lawyers and Breonna’s family say that that was not up-to-date information and that, in fact, in order to obtain these warrants, you need to have very up-to-date information, in the last 42 or 78 hours. And the last time, apparently, that they had updated this information was in February, and this event occurred on March 13th. So, there’s an issue with whether these warrants were valid.
We know that the warrants were — the warrant at Breonna’s house was not executed correctly, because she ended up dead. The way that — there’s questions about how they were executed, if they announced — if the police announced themselves loud enough. The police say that they did announce themselves as they were breaking into the apartment. Kenneth Walker, her boyfriend, who was the survivor of that night, says he didn’t hear them. And as a legal, licensed gun owner, as they were breaking into his apartment, he shot one shot, because he thought they were being broken into. He didn’t know what was happening. And then, obviously, the barrage of shots, and Breonna was killed.
And then, after that, Kenny was taken into custody immediately, and we have harrowing video from the neighbor you see in the film of him being taken into custody and being — you know, saying that he didn’t know what happened. We thought — they were lying, they were in bed, you know, when they heard the doors being banged on. And he ended up spending two weeks in jail, until he was let out of jail. He didn’t know what happened. You know, he found out on the news what happened to his girlfriend, when he was in prison.
Meanwhile, Tamika Palmer, Breonna’s mother, had gotten a call from Kenny that night as these events were happening. She ended up rushing down to Breonna’s apartment. She doesn’t live far to the apartment complex. She was told by the officers, by the police there, to go to the hospital, when no one was at the hospital, so unclear why they told her to do that. She waited there, the hospital, for a couple hours. The hospital told her that, you know, there’s no one that has — you know, that no one has been — that Breonna was not there. Then she went back and waited, to the apartment complex, waited a few more hours, and then finally asked — was told that Breonna was still in the apartment. And so, she knew that she had passed away, that she was dead, when she found that out. And she did not know that police had shot her, until the next day on the news. She was not given this information. So, it’s that —
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go back, Yoruba, with Kenneth Walker, her boyfriend.
YORUBA RICHEN: Sure.
AMY GOODMAN: I mean, he takes his legal weapon — they’re in bed, their house is broken into — and he fires a shot. He then calls the police himself. That 911 call we heard, he’s calling the police to ask for help for an intruder.
YORUBA RICHEN: Absolutely. He called the police himself. He had previously called, as I said, Tamika and his — Breonna’s mom, and his own mom. And then called the police. And he’s — yeah, I mean, it’s right in the call. You hear what he’s saying. He’s saying he doesn’t know what’s happening. Someone shot his girlfriend. And he’s crying. So —
AMY GOODMAN: I want to go to a longer version of that clip, that 911 call that Kenneth Walker makes to the police that night.
KENNETH WALKER: I don’t — I don’t know what’s happening. Somebody kicked in the door and shot my girlfriend. … Bre! Oh my god!
911 OPERATOR: You said 26? Where was she shot at?
KENNETH WALKER: I don’t know. She’s on the ground right now. I don’t know. … Help! Oh my god! Breonna’s so ill! Help!
911 OPERATOR: What’s her name, sir? Is she alert and able to talk to you?
KENNETH WALKER: No!
AMY GOODMAN: Yoruba Richen?
YORUBA RICHEN: I mean, it’s absolutely — I think you hear the — I mean, you hear it all in his voice. He doesn’t know what’s happened. Breonna is shot, on the floor. You know, I can only — I can’t even imagine what that must feel like for him. You know, they were in bed, lying in bed. He describes that night. He hears — they hear the breaking in of the door. They get dressed really as quickly as possible. Breonna is screaming out, “Who is it? Who is it?” Kenneth said there’s no answer. Kenny says there’s no answer, no answer. And then, when they breach, when the door comes — you know, breach the door, coming — you know, falling in, is when he let off a shot, because he thought they were being broken into.
AMY GOODMAN: So, I want to go to another clip from your film, The Killing of Breonna Taylor, where we hear from one of Breonna’s neighbors, who wished to remain unnamed, but first to Breonna’s mother, Tamika Palmer.
TAMIKA PALMER: So I started calling him, and he wasn’t answering the phone. So I started calling Breonna, and she wasn’t answering.
NEIGHBOR: I’m roughly a hundred1 feet from her apartment. My apartment does physically touch hers in the top right corner, so all that was between me and the house I was, the screen door. And I’m sitting there watching TV. It was a little past midnight or whatever. And I hear a pop, pop, pop. Immediately after that, I heard two more pops. And that’s when I pulled my blinds open to see what was happening outside. It sounded like the O.K. Corral.
AMY GOODMAN: And in this clip from the documentary The Killing of Breonna Taylor, we hear from Donavis Duncan, a Louisville police officer who lives in the same apartment complex as Breonna, but first, Breonna’s mother, Tamika Palmer.
TAMIKA PALMER: We stood out there 'til about almost 5 in the morning. It just made no sense. Like, there's all these police out there, and nobody is telling me anything. I don’t know why any of this is happening. I said, “Well, where is Breonna? I need to see Breonna.”
DONAVIS DUNCAN: I told them, “Just hold on one second. I’m not at liberty to say anything that happened.” And then I went to go get a detective. And they went and spoke to Breonna’s family at that point in time.
TAMIKA PALMER: It was about 11:00 in the morning when he comes back over and says they were almost done. And I said, “OK, that’s fine, but where is Breonna?” And that’s when he said, “Well, ma’am, she’s still in the apartment.” So, I knew then what that meant.
AMY GOODMAN: Again, that was Breonna’s mother, Tamika Palmer, and, before that, Donavis Duncan. Tell us about the Louisville police officer who lives in the same complex.
YORUBA RICHEN: Well, Officer Duncan, he lives in the complex that Breonna lived in, and he does security there. So, he — it’s kind of like his second job. So, he didn’t know the events, you know, what was going on, until he got a call on his — or, until he was notified. And then he went down there to see what’s going on, so he was in the dark, as well. And he was really just trying to help the process along, I guess, in terms of separating the public from what was happening around Breonna’s apartment.
AMY GOODMAN: So, it’s six months ago this week that Breonna was killed. Give us the timeline, Yoruba, on the reaction then, what people understood, and then what happened after the killing of George Floyd, how this case has grown to the point where this weekend at the Kentucky Derby, six months later, the massive protests are happening, the protests on the property of the attorney general, the first African American attorney general of Kentucky, and so much more.
YORUBA RICHEN: Yeah. So, after March 13th, the night she was — the early morning of March 13th, when she was killed, there was — Tamika did not get much information, or any information really, from the police. And she called a lawyer, Sam Aguiar and Lonita Baker, who are her representatives, and went in to meet with them. And they immediately were struck by what had been in the press. And the press had said, “Drug suspect killed,” or “Suspect killed in drug probe.” That’s how they were — you know, that’s how — “And cop was shot.” And that’s how it was being presented. And there was a sense that something was off here, that this was not the entire story. So, they started to take on the case and doing their own investigation.
Meanwhile, the friends and family of Breonna started on social media and saying that this narrative was wrong that the media was putting out there. Kenny was still in jail. He was being called, you know, a cop — shooting a cop. Breonna was dead. She was called a suspect in a drug probe. And they knew that this was not — you know, that this was not the story. So they began to tweeting and putting their social — you know, putting the information out on social media that this needs to be investigated, we need to know what’s going on, Kenny needs to be freed.
And still, it wasn’t until the killing of George Floyd that this case — and then, of course, corona shut everything down just a few days after this. And combined with that and the fact that there was no video in this case, as there had been video in these other harrowing events of Black people being shot by police — wasn’t the case here that there was video, or at least video that was being released. We don’t actually know what video is out there, because the LMPD has not given any information, nor have the results of either investigation are released — and I’ll get to that in a second. But it was the killing of George Floyd that people started to focus more attention on what happened to Breonna Taylor.
And in the city of Louisville itself, we get protests, and repeated protests began and really, really elevated, until there was a takeover of Jefferson Square, which is an area right in the downtown Louisville, where all the LMPD is, where the courts are, and the protesters took over that square and renamed it Breonna Taylor — renamed it for Breonna Taylor. So, the protests have escalated, and with that, of course, the national and international attention. Now, at the same time, the reason why the protests have escalated, because the LMPD has not released any information, pretty much, and in fact they put out a blank incident report a couple months later that said that there were no injuries to Breonna. And that just enraged people even more.
AMY GOODMAN: I mean, this is absolutely amazing. This incident report, when it says injuries, it says “none.” When it says was force used to enter the apartment, it says “none,” when, of course, they used a battering ram. And, of course, Breonna Taylor was shot multiple times.
YORUBA RICHEN: It’s an outrage. I mean, what else can you say? And it fueled the anger of the community, rightly so. And meanwhile, the LMPD, again, has said nothing. At that point, Hankison, one of the officers, was fired, but that took a few months for that to happen. And the other officers are still employed by the LMPD.
Also, the investigations — so, there are two investigations that are going on that people are waiting for. The attorney general, Daniel Cameron, who you mentioned, he has — it’s an independent investigation that was turned over to his office, and then the FBI has been investigating, as well. And the attorney general are investigating — the investigation in his office are looking at the events that happened that night. We know — he’s given no timeline of when those results will be released.
We found out a big thing that folks were waiting for, that we were told that people were waiting — you know, that the investigation was waiting for, is the ballistics report, which will show which officer — which bullets hit Breonna. So that’s still unknown. And that’s part of the reason — that’s the reason why no officers have been charged, because they do not know which — the ballistics report has to tell them which officers — which bullets hit Breonna. We found out, I believe last week, the beginning of last week, that those ballistics reports has been released. They’re in the AG’s hands, but yet still no timeline on when the results will be released.
AMY GOODMAN: So, let’s talk about Hankison for a minute, because you go deeply into his record, and, to say the least, you flesh it out. Hankison is the one who shot in from outside the apartment through a window, and he’s the one who’s fired for what? Firing blindly.
YORUBA RICHEN: Exactly.
AMY GOODMAN: But he — after Breonna’s death, a woman saw the names of the officers and said, “My god, that’s the guy who went after me, who assaulted me, sexually harassed me.”
YORUBA RICHEN: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: Explain Hankison’s record, now that’s coming out more and more as one woman after another comes out.
YORUBA RICHEN: Yeah. So, Hankison has a record, previous to this, of charges, an excessive force and different charges filed in his police record. And none of that — you know, all of those have been either cleared or dismissed. So, there’s that.
Then, as you mentioned, when this case started getting attention, a young woman, who we interviewed in the film, wrote on Facebook about her encounter with Hankison at a bar, where he does security and asked her if she wanted a ride home late at night. And she said yes. You know, he was an officer. She, you know, thought —
AMY GOODMAN: In his uniform. He picks her up.
YORUBA RICHEN: In his uniform.
AMY GOODMAN: She was walking home from the bar, about 10 minutes away, and he pulled over, said, “Do you want me to give you a ride home?”
YORUBA RICHEN: Exactly. And she gets in the car. She says immediately he starts rubbing her leg, calling her “baby.” You know, she started getting really scared. She knew this was wrong. And when she gets out, she — when she gets to her house, she flies out of the car and, you know, goes — tries to get away from him as quickly as possible. She texts her friend that night that this — what happened, and that he was an officer and this creepy — what, she says, “creepy cop” did to her. And her friend immediately files a report on the portal of the LMPD about what happened. And no response.
Then, as this case comes to light, she tells her boyfriend — Emily tells her boyfriend that that’s the same cop. He calls the LMPD and files — tries to file a complaint. Nothing. So she posted on Facebook. She posts what’s happened to her on Facebook, and she starts getting all of these other women coming forward, a few other women coming forward and saying they did — they had similar encounters with Hankison, you know, similar sexual misconduct encounters with Hankison. And two of the women, Emily and a woman named Margo Borders, have talked to the FBI in their investigation of this case.


democracynow--2020-09-08--Headlines for September  8, 2020

Headlines for September  8, 2020

Coronavirus cases in the United States have topped 6.3 million , with a confirmed death toll of over 189,000 .
Cases are rising in 22 states , according to Reuters , as health experts warn the numbers could get worse following gatherings over the Labor Day weekend .
Schools remain a site of new coronavirus clusters : Over 51,000 cases have now been reported across more than 1,000 campuses .
The Wall Street Journal reported several major drug companies , including Pfizer , Johnson & Johnson and Moderna , will issue a public pledge to not seek government approval for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to be safe and effective .
This comes as concerns are growing that Trump is trying to rush the release of a vaccine before the November election .
During a press briefing Monday , Trump tried to coerce Reuters reporter Jeff Mason into taking off his face mask because his voice was muffled .
Trump relented after Mason said he would speak louder .
Mason is the former president of the White House Correspondents ’ Association .
Later on , Trump praised a reporter who took their mask off .
“ You sound @ @ @ @ @ @ @

In New York, protests in Rochester continued over the weekend demanding justice for Daniel Prude. Prude, a Black man, died from asphyxiation in March after police officers handcuffed him, put a hood over his head and pushed his face into the freezing cold ground for two minutes while kneeling on his back. On Sunday, a group of naked and near-naked protesters wearing nothing but “spit hoods” protested outside Rochester’s public safety building. New York Attorney General Letitia James announced she would impanel a grand jury over his case. The mayor of Rochester, Lovely Warren, has promised police reforms after nearly a week of nonstop demonstrations.
Mayor Lovely Warren: “It is my solemn duty as a mayor of this city to honor Mr. Prude, to not let his death be in vain, and to do everything possible to transform how we police our city to truly protect and serve our residents.”
Protests were held across other U.S. cities, including Louisville, Kentucky, where armed, right-wing protesters confronted antiracist protesters during a demonstration ahead of the Kentucky Derby Saturday. This comes as Vice reports at least one of the officers involved in the police killing of Louisville resident Breonna Taylor was wearing a body camera, contradicting earlier statements by the local police department. In Portland, Oregon, this weekend marked over 100 days of daily demonstrations, as police continue to violently repress protesters.


democracynow--2020-09-09--"Unforgetting": Roberto Lovato's Memoir Links U.S. Military in Central America to Migration Crisis

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Juan González , as we spend the rest of the hour looking at how decades of U.S. military intervention in Central America has led to the migrant crisis of today .
The majority of Central American refugees and immigrants to the United States come from just three countries : Guatemala , Honduras and El Salvador , which are the same three countries the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ other decades , the 1980s , on the sides of military governments and paramilitary death squads that killed tens of thousands — and in the case of Guatemala , hundreds of thousands — of mostly Indigenous people .
In El Salvador , many soldiers responsible for carrying out the notorious 1981 El Mozote massacre , in which nearly a thousand unarmed villagers were killed , were elite U.S.-trained forces .
Between 1980 and '92 , the U.S. sent over $ 4 billion in economic and military aid to El Salvador 's government — @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Well , today , we follow the story of one man and his family , and why he says the story of El Salvador is the story of the United States .
Roberto Lovato is an award-winning journalist .
He ’ s just published his memoir called Unforgetting : A Memoir of Family , Migration , Gangs , and Revolution in the Americas .
He ’ s joining us now from San Francisco , where he was born .
Roberto , welcome back to Democracy Now !
It ’ s great to have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ unforgettable memoir .
But let ’ s start with the title , why you call it Unforgetting .
ROBERTO LOVATO : Before anything , Amy , thank you , as always .
It ’ s a pleasure and an honor to be with Juan and you and the crew once again on this joyous occasion for me , that I ’ ve worn a red shirt for you that ’ s in celebration and in solidarity .
And I was going to have a gangster lean when you played that song that I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ lowriders and stuff .
And so… But the term “ unforgetting ” comes from the Greeks .
The Greeks believed that when you went into the underworld , the dead — when the dead went into the underworld , they had to cross the Lethe river , which was the river of forgetting , before going to either Elysium or Hades .
And so , as I was trying to pick out a title for this book , I realized that the journey that I had taken to all these different underworlds for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ underworlds , the underworld of the FMLN guerrillas , the underworld of my personal family history , that was unknown to me in many ways , or my own psychology , and the underworld of migrants , who have to kind of occupy an underworld existence in many ways — I just thought , “ Wow !
What a perfect way to kind of bring up and excavate the truths that get hidden , ” because in Greek — the ancient Greeks believed that “ unforgetting ” was also the term for truth @ @ @ @ @ @ @ river , unforgetting .
And so I am unforgetting a history of not just El Salvador , but of the United States and of myself .
And , you know , my book is kind of a coming out for me personally , and I ’ ll explain that as we go .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : Well , Roberto , you begin the book talking about a tour you were giving in 1992 in Los Angeles at the time you were working with the immigrant rights group CARECEN in Los Angeles .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ program officer , one of these people who decides whether to give money to worthy organizations .
And you had very mixed feelings taking him around the Pico-Union area of Los Angeles .
There ’ s a sudden shootout at one point .
Could you talk about that whole part of your work with CARECEN ?
Also , what lessons might be drawn for a lot of activists today , Black Lives Matter activists and prison reform activists , who are suddenly being courted by foundations who suddenly have discovered that they haven @ @ @ @ @ @ @ around the country ?
ROBERTO LOVATO : That ’ s a great question , Juan .
Yeah , the opening , the introduction of the book , is 1992 , right after the L.A. riots had hit .
We had foundations and corporations come in , along with scholars , and it was just people interested in post-riot L.A. And we were in MacArthur Park touring , like we did .
I felt like — and I say at one point I felt like , you know , I was getting tired of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you know , these aspiring Dantes wanting to see the underworld .
And so , I ’ m showing this guy , Leland , MacArthur Park , when I ’ m approached by the first MS-13 member I ever met , this kid named José .
And , you know , we were — and I could tell that Leland was scared out of his wits , like he was in a lion ’ s den or something , and he was looking to me for security .
And so , I open @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the way that the whole issue of youth and urban youth and gangs , even foundations and corporations will kind of shy away from , as do legislators , including legislators of color here in California , where the gangs were born , in fact , where MS-13 and 18th Street were born .
And then , after they were born , they kind of adopted the structures of like the Mexican Mafia .
And so , I ’ m there when this is starting to escalate and get more violent .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ , again , and at the avatar , from the Bush administration , who ’ s now in the Trump administration , deployed all these FBI resources to L.A. and other cities to start the gang war , which , you know , we see the products as we speak , right ?
And so , then he also introduced the INS to then join the LAPD and law enforcement to deport the “ problem , ” the gang structures , to El Salvador .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : You then go on in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , to talk about your experience visiting immigrant families in detention in Karnes , Texas .
And could you talk about that and also this whole effort of the federal government to put these detention centers in the most out-of-the-way places , so that even journalists have trouble getting to them ?
ROBERTO LOVATO : Yeah , this is an example of those underworlds I ’ m trying to get at .
Like , a lot of people don ’ t realize that those immigrant prisons — I refuse to call them “ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ travesty to call them that .
And , all my fellow journalists , it ’ s a travesty .
You know , they put these prisons down in southern Texas precisely because immigrant rights groups won ’ t go down there .
It becomes harder for them to go down there .
And it becomes harder for journalists , say , in San Antonio , to drive all these miles down south to visit these places .
And there are actually ICE memos .
And so , my journey , my own journey @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and a mother who are plotting , along with other immigrant women and children and youth , to stage a protest against the awful conditions , that moved some , for example , to — mothers to slit their wrists , or some children to try to hang themselves .
And so , I mean , I was reluctant , because my friends Ursula and Felipe invited me to go to this prison , and I was kind of reluctant because I had this whole story from the war and other trauma I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ had kind of stirring up in me , and I knew I would eventually have to tell my story .
And basically , my bubble burst when a child tells me this really horrific story of what he saw in El Salvador .
And at that moment , I realized , “ You know what ?
It ’ s time to tell my story .
It ’ s time to come out , ” so to speak .
And I do .
I come out about things that I had known and things @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I needed to tell about myself , including my participation in the revolutionary process in El Salvador .
AMY GOODMAN : Can you talk about that , Roberto ?
Can you talk about your involvement with the FMLN ?
You ’ re a well-known journalist in the United States .
Talk about who the FMLN were .
Of course , now they ’ re part of the regular political process and a party in El Salvador today .
But what decisions you made early on ?
ROBERTO LOVATO : Yeah , Amy , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ journalist , and Juan know very well that I wouldn ’ t get Pulitzer grants if I said , “ Hey , I was an urban commando with the FMLN.
” You know , that ’ s just not how it works .
You don ’ t — what you have in journalism , and in literature , I would argue , are not representative of the full spectrum of political , ideological , even racial , if you look at like Latinos and — not even , Latinos aren ’ t a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ groups of Latinos are like less — occupy like 1 % of U.S. literature .
So , I made a decision , after doing work with refugee communities in the war zones and working with refugees here in San Francisco with CARECEN , Comite de Refugiados Centroamericanos and other groups , like CISPES , etc.
, here to do solidarity and sanctuary work .
I was becoming more conscious .
I fell in love .
There ’ s a love story in my book , which is part of the point , right @ @ @ @ @ @ @ like , terror is the given of the place , like Joan Didion .
And I ’ m like , “ Actually , no , I grew up Salvadoran .
Love is the given of the place , as well.
” And so , I ’ m in Chalatenango , El Salvador , one of the most difficult places I ’ ve ever seen in my life , in terms of war .
And I saw really terrible things , including things done to children .
And I eventually say it ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ kind of like what Juan ’ s talking about , like nonprofit work and having all this language and getting all this funding , like people do here and in other parts of the world to be officially representing communities for very high salaries .
I wasn ’ t really feeling that , so I decided I needed to do something else .
And I had some friends that introduced me to people in the FMLN , and they thought I could be useful working with urban commandos in logistics and things .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ I see this home that was bombed with all these children is the moment I stop being “ American.
” I stop .
You can go and look at most of my journalism .
I avoid using the word “ American , ” since 1991 , because of I didn ’ t want anything to do with that .
And so , I became an Américan , with an accent on the E , and a citizen of the United States of América , which is kind of the revolutionary imaginary taking hold @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
AMY GOODMAN : And the FMLN , again , for people to understand , was the rebel fighting force at a time when the U.S. was pouring millions into the military regime and the paramilitaries responsible for everything from the killing of the six Jesuit priests , their housekeeper and her daughter , to the El Mozote massacre of 1981 ?
ROBERTO LOVATO : Yes , yes .
The FMLN was organized against the fascist military dictatorship backed by the U.S. government , beginning with the Carter administration .
And , you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ historian like my friend Joaquín Chávez , whose excellent book Poets and Prophets of the [ Resistance ] is a must-read , you know , you ’ ll see that the U.S. involvement dates decades back .
They started supporting El Salvador ’ s military dictatorship starting in around 1934 , when they finally recognized Maximiliano Hernández Martínez , who perpetrated La Matanza of 1932 , which some historians will tell you is one of the most violent episodes in not just Latin American history , but in world history , in terms @ @ @ @ @ @ @ day , per week , in a concentrated place .
And so , the FMLN was — you know , there were groups in the FMLN founded by poets .
This was one of the things that attracted me to it , was the nondistinction between the poetic and the political , between the revolutionary and daily life , between love and labor .
And so , the FMLN was , according to the CIA , one of the most effective political , military and social movements in Latin America in the 20th @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you could read NACLA and see that one of every three Salvadorans was organized against the state in the 1980s , according to the Universidad Centroamericana .
And , you know , I mean , it taught me what it means to be a poet warrior .
It ’ s something that I think we need right now , which is part of the reason I wrote the book , was to share — you know , there ’ s all this dark , heavy stuff , but I think you ’ ll @ @ @ @ @ @ @ love , tenderness and hope in the book , because that ’ s the only way we got through as Salvadorans .
And I think , in all my experience around the world , in a most intimate way , I ’ ve never seen a people with such astonishing resilience as Salvadoreños .
And — AMY GOODMAN : Roberto , we have to break , but we ’ re going to come back and also want to talk about your fraught relationship with your father , and this revelation in your book @ @ @ @ @ @ @ La Matanza of 1932 , the peasant uprising in the government massacre , killings of thousands and thousands of Salvadorans .
Roberto Lovato is the award-winning journalist .
His memoir is just out .
It ’ s called Unforgetting .
Stay with us .
AMY GOODMAN : “ Días y Flores ” by Silvio Rodríguez .
Our guest today is Roberto Lovato , the award-winning journalist , author of Unforgetting : A Memoir of Family , Migration , Gangs , and Revolution in the Americas .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : Roberto , before break , you were talking about , mentioning La Matanza in 1932 .
A lot of people don ’ t realize that the FMLN of the ’ 70s and ’ 80s took its name , of Farabundo Martí , Agustín Farabundo Martí , who was one of the organizers of the peasant uprising of 1932 and was also one of the founders of the Central American Communist Party .
Could you talk about the links between what happened in 1932 , in your understanding of it , as well @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ROBERTO LOVATO : Yeah .
I mean , in my view and in the view of historians like Aldo Lauria-Santiago and Erik Ching and Greg Gould , you know , it really — the FMLN probably should have been named the Feliciano Ama — Frente Feliciano Ama para la Liberación Nacional , because it was primarily an Indigenous uprising , right ?
Indigenous peoples started seeing their kids , the little — the soft part of their heads started sinking in , and watching their kids die .
And they rebelled .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
But really , the core groups of it and the local leadership was Indigenous .
And so , that , you know — and the way history works , oftentimes we erase Indigenous agency .
And so , I felt it important to talk about how — you know , what historians have taught us about La Matanza , that people rose up trying to overthrow the government in what was the first communist insurrection .
There were communists involved , including Farabundo Martí .
And a man named El General , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not just to take power , because he was the vice president , but also then perpetrate what scholars at Oxford have told me is one of the single most violent episodes in world history , as far as the number of people killed per day in a concentrated space and per week in a concentrated space .
And so , you know , there ’ s a — the records of La Matanza were buried , burned , destroyed , by and large .
There ’ s some in — some historians @ @ @ @ @ @ @ them and rebuild the memory and unforget , right ?
Because , you know , states are nothing if not manufacturers of — mass manufacturers of amnesia .
And so , you know , from that point on , you get military dictatorship , one of the longest-standing military dictatorships in the Americas .
But you also get one of the most consistent left oppositions , and effective left oppositions , in the Americas in the Salvadoran people ’ s struggle , which is part of the reason I wrote my book , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and mothers screaming , the sounds , the soundbites of mothers screaming in places like Karnes , are the dominant images , along with gangs of Salvadorans , when , in fact , you ’ ve got this incredible , astonishingly incredible , political capability that Salvadorans have had and still have .
AMY GOODMAN : So , La Matanza , you reveal in your book — talk about your father ’ s connection as a witness .
ROBERTO LOVATO : Yeah , my father , Ramon Alfredo Lovato , Papa Mon , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ him , was 9 years old when this happened in January of 1932 .
And I didn ’ t even know this .
I was teaching in the country ’ s first Central American studies program at Cal State Northridge , and we were trying to find books which you can ’ t find in English , except for a few , like the one by Gould and Santiago .
And , you know , I was doing research on La Matanza .
Then I realized , “ Hey , this town , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from.
” It was one of the major centers .
And my dad never said anything for decades .
So then I start doing the research , and I finally ask my dad , and he reveals to me that he had seen La Matanza .
And it was an epic moment in my family history and in my own life , because it explained a lot to me about why I was such a crazy kid that used to gangster lean , like in that song , and run in certain violent @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the FMLN and other crazy things that I ’ ve done in my life , had this deep undercurrent of family history that I think a lot of us have in our families , family secrets .
And I try to connect those family secrets to the secrets of nations , like with the Matanza , which was , again , covered up and buried along with mass gravesites that are still unexcavated to this day .
JUAN GONZÁLEZ : And speaking of family secrets , you also reveal in your book that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ United Airlines for many years as a ramp service worker , also had his own underground life , basically , in the Mission District of San Francisco selling contraband .
ROBERTO LOVATO : Yeah , my dad was , along with Santana ’ s father , involved in the contraband industry in San Francisco ’ s Mission District .
A lot of colorful characters came out of there .
And my dad was at the center of it .
And my dad , a very smart guy , created a transnational network of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ calculators , perfume , eventually guns .
My dad was running guns between El Salvador — I mean , San Francisco and El Salvador .
He wasn ’ t selling them to , like , the fascists or to the FMLN or anything .
This was before , in the prewar era , in the '70s .
He was doing it to anybody who could afford it .
But I learned about the construction of criminality at a very personal level .
You know , I had shame about my dad , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s activities .
And I started excavating the history .
I find out that it wasn ’ t just my dad .
It was my Mama Te , my grandmother , who made pupusas with me , for me and our family .
And with the same hands that she made pupusas , she also transferred — she was actually the originator of this transnational network of contraband that sustained our family .
And so , I ’ m not going to call my abuelita a criminal , or my dad a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that were trying to sustain their families by any ways they could and under like — you know , for example , they lived through an El Salvador that didn ’ t just see La Matanza and the genocide , but a poverty in the Great Depression that made Steinbeck ’ s Grapes of Wrath look like a wine festival .
AMY GOODMAN : Finally , William Barr , the current attorney general , the attorney general under George H.W .
Bush — we just have a minute , but as you wrap @ @ @ @ @ @ @ connection to this story ?
ROBERTO LOVATO : William Barr , as attorney general under the first Bush , redeployed FBI resources , in the greatest deployment of FBI resources up to that point , taking FBI agents who were fighting foreign — you know , looking at foreign “ threats , ” and started focusing them on gangs .
And then he starts looking at MS-13 and other gangs right after the L.A. riots .
You can see he was there in L.A. , and he started us on the path to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , that we have right now .
And then , he then also had the INS deport the gang “ problem ” to El Salvador , and then he exported , after the war , U.S.-style policing .
And then , I found out that military trainers from El Salvador actually came to train LAPD in counterinsurgency , and other police forces .
It ’ s just when you start seeing the Robocopization of cop uniforms — right ?
— and that we have now .
And William Barr had everything to do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he had a lot to do with this .
I had to sing his song , because he deserves all the credit he deserves for what he did to El Salvador and to L.A. and to our national situation long before Trump .
AMY GOODMAN : Roberto Lovato , there is so much more in this stunning memoir .
Roberto is an award-winning journalist and author of Unforgetting : A Memoir of Family , Migration , Gangs , and Revolution .
And that does it for our show .
Democracy Now !
is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , Deena Guzder , Libby Rainey , Nermeen Shaikh , María Taracena , Carla Wills , Tami Woronoff .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , with Juan González .
Wear a mask .
Stay safe .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González, as we spend the rest of the hour looking at how decades of U.S. military intervention in Central America has led to the migrant crisis of today.
The majority of Central American refugees and immigrants to the United States come from just three countries: Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador, which are the same three countries the United States intervened in during, among other decades, the 1980s, on the sides of military governments and paramilitary death squads that killed tens of thousands — and in the case of Guatemala, hundreds of thousands — of mostly Indigenous people. In El Salvador, many soldiers responsible for carrying out the notorious 1981 El Mozote massacre, in which nearly a thousand unarmed villagers were killed, were elite U.S.-trained forces. Between 1980 and '92, the U.S. sent over $4 billion in economic and military aid to El Salvador's government — nearly $1 million a day.
Well, today, we follow the story of one man and his family, and why he says the story of El Salvador is the story of the United States. Roberto Lovato is an award-winning journalist. He’s just published his memoir called Unforgetting: A Memoir of Family, Migration, Gangs, and Revolution in the Americas. He’s joining us now from San Francisco, where he was born.
Roberto, welcome back to Democracy Now! It’s great to have you with us. Congratulations on this unforgettable memoir. But let’s start with the title, why you call it Unforgetting.
ROBERTO LOVATO: Before anything, Amy, thank you, as always. It’s a pleasure and an honor to be with Juan and you and the crew once again on this joyous occasion for me, that I’ve worn a red shirt for you that’s in celebration and in solidarity. And I was going to have a gangster lean when you played that song that I used to play, like, in lowriders and stuff. And so…
But the term “unforgetting” comes from the Greeks. The Greeks believed that when you went into the underworld, the dead — when the dead went into the underworld, they had to cross the Lethe river, which was the river of forgetting, before going to either Elysium or Hades. And so, as I was trying to pick out a title for this book, I realized that the journey that I had taken to all these different underworlds for the book, whether it was gang underworlds, the underworld of the FMLN guerrillas, the underworld of my personal family history, that was unknown to me in many ways, or my own psychology, and the underworld of migrants, who have to kind of occupy an underworld existence in many ways — I just thought, “Wow! What a perfect way to kind of bring up and excavate the truths that get hidden,” because in Greek — the ancient Greeks believed that “unforgetting” was also the term for truth, aletheia, which means not Lethe river, unforgetting. And so I am unforgetting a history of not just El Salvador, but of the United States and of myself. And, you know, my book is kind of a coming out for me personally, and I’ll explain that as we go.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, Roberto, you begin the book talking about a tour you were giving in 1992 in Los Angeles at the time you were working with the immigrant rights group CARECEN in Los Angeles. And you’re touring around a foundation program officer, one of these people who decides whether to give money to worthy organizations. And you had very mixed feelings taking him around the Pico-Union area of Los Angeles. There’s a sudden shootout at one point. Could you talk about that whole part of your work with CARECEN? Also, what lessons might be drawn for a lot of activists today, Black Lives Matter activists and prison reform activists, who are suddenly being courted by foundations who suddenly have discovered that they haven’t been properly funding antiracism programs around the country?
ROBERTO LOVATO: That’s a great question, Juan. Yeah, the opening, the introduction of the book, is 1992, right after the L.A. riots had hit. We had foundations and corporations come in, along with scholars, and it was just people interested in post-riot L.A. And we were in MacArthur Park touring, like we did. I felt like — and I say at one point I felt like, you know, I was getting tired of being like Virgil to these Dantes, you know, these aspiring Dantes wanting to see the underworld. And so, I’m showing this guy, Leland, MacArthur Park, when I’m approached by the first MS-13 member I ever met, this kid named José. And, you know, we were — and I could tell that Leland was scared out of his wits, like he was in a lion’s den or something, and he was looking to me for security.
And so, I open it that way because it shows kind of the way that the whole issue of youth and urban youth and gangs, even foundations and corporations will kind of shy away from, as do legislators, including legislators of color here in California, where the gangs were born, in fact, where MS-13 and 18th Street were born. And then, after they were born, they kind of adopted the structures of like the Mexican Mafia. And so, I’m there when this is starting to escalate and get more violent.
And then, Attorney General William Barr, again, and at the avatar, from the Bush administration, who’s now in the Trump administration, deployed all these FBI resources to L.A. and other cities to start the gang war, which, you know, we see the products as we speak, right? And so, then he also introduced the INS to then join the LAPD and law enforcement to deport the “problem,” the gang structures, to El Salvador.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: You then go on in the book, in the subsequent chapter, to talk about your experience visiting immigrant families in detention in Karnes, Texas. And could you talk about that and also this whole effort of the federal government to put these detention centers in the most out-of-the-way places, so that even journalists have trouble getting to them?
ROBERTO LOVATO: Yeah, this is an example of those underworlds I’m trying to get at. Like, a lot of people don’t realize that those immigrant prisons — I refuse to call them “detention centers.” It’s a travesty to call them that. And, all my fellow journalists, it’s a travesty. You know, they put these prisons down in southern Texas precisely because immigrant rights groups won’t go down there. It becomes harder for them to go down there. And it becomes harder for journalists, say, in San Antonio, to drive all these miles down south to visit these places. And there are actually ICE memos.
And so, my journey, my own journey, begins when I meet a child and a mother who are plotting, along with other immigrant women and children and youth, to stage a protest against the awful conditions, that moved some, for example, to — mothers to slit their wrists, or some children to try to hang themselves. And so, I mean, I was reluctant, because my friends Ursula and Felipe invited me to go to this prison, and I was kind of reluctant because I had this whole story from the war and other trauma I didn’t even know that I had kind of stirring up in me, and I knew I would eventually have to tell my story. And basically, my bubble burst when a child tells me this really horrific story of what he saw in El Salvador. And at that moment, I realized, “You know what? It’s time to tell my story. It’s time to come out,” so to speak. And I do. I come out about things that I had known and things that I would learn and things that I needed to tell about myself, including my participation in the revolutionary process in El Salvador.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about that, Roberto? Can you talk about your involvement with the FMLN? You’re a well-known journalist in the United States. Talk about who the FMLN were. Of course, now they’re part of the regular political process and a party in El Salvador today. But what decisions you made early on?
ROBERTO LOVATO: Yeah, Amy, you know, you, as a journalist, and Juan know very well that I wouldn’t get Pulitzer grants if I said, “Hey, I was an urban commando with the FMLN.” You know, that’s just not how it works. You don’t — what you have in journalism, and in literature, I would argue, are not representative of the full spectrum of political, ideological, even racial, if you look at like Latinos and — not even, Latinos aren’t a race, but all the different subracial groups of Latinos are like less — occupy like 1% of U.S. literature.
So, I made a decision, after doing work with refugee communities in the war zones and working with refugees here in San Francisco with CARECEN, Comite de Refugiados Centroamericanos and other groups, like CISPES, etc., here to do solidarity and sanctuary work. I was becoming more conscious. I fell in love. There’s a love story in my book, which is part of the point, right? Because all you hear is, like, terror is the given of the place, like Joan Didion. And I’m like, “Actually, no, I grew up Salvadoran. Love is the given of the place, as well.”
And so, I’m in Chalatenango, El Salvador, one of the most difficult places I’ve ever seen in my life, in terms of war. And I saw really terrible things, including things done to children. And I eventually say it’s not enough for me to just do kind of like what Juan’s talking about, like nonprofit work and having all this language and getting all this funding, like people do here and in other parts of the world to be officially representing communities for very high salaries. I wasn’t really feeling that, so I decided I needed to do something else.
And I had some friends that introduced me to people in the FMLN, and they thought I could be useful working with urban commandos in logistics and things. And so, at that moment when I see this home that was bombed with all these children is the moment I stop being “American.” I stop. You can go and look at most of my journalism. I avoid using the word “American,” since 1991, because of I didn’t want anything to do with that. And so, I became an Américan, with an accent on the E, and a citizen of the United States of América, which is kind of the revolutionary imaginary taking hold of me to want a better place.
AMY GOODMAN: And the FMLN, again, for people to understand, was the rebel fighting force at a time when the U.S. was pouring millions into the military regime and the paramilitaries responsible for everything from the killing of the six Jesuit priests, their housekeeper and her daughter, to the El Mozote massacre of 1981?
ROBERTO LOVATO: Yes, yes. The FMLN was organized against the fascist military dictatorship backed by the U.S. government, beginning with the Carter administration. And, you know, if you’re an historian like my friend Joaquín Chávez, whose excellent book Poets and Prophets of the [Resistance] is a must-read, you know, you’ll see that the U.S. involvement dates decades back. They started supporting El Salvador’s military dictatorship starting in around 1934, when they finally recognized Maximiliano Hernández Martínez, who perpetrated La Matanza of 1932, which some historians will tell you is one of the most violent episodes in not just Latin American history, but in world history, in terms of the numbers of people killed per day, per week, in a concentrated place.
And so, the FMLN was — you know, there were groups in the FMLN founded by poets. This was one of the things that attracted me to it, was the nondistinction between the poetic and the political, between the revolutionary and daily life, between love and labor. And so, the FMLN was, according to the CIA, one of the most effective political, military and social movements in Latin America in the 20th century, where, for example, you could read NACLA and see that one of every three Salvadorans was organized against the state in the 1980s, according to the Universidad Centroamericana. And, you know, I mean, it taught me what it means to be a poet warrior.
It’s something that I think we need right now, which is part of the reason I wrote the book, was to share — you know, there’s all this dark, heavy stuff, but I think you’ll find there’s a lot of love, tenderness and hope in the book, because that’s the only way we got through as Salvadorans. And I think, in all my experience around the world, in a most intimate way, I’ve never seen a people with such astonishing resilience as Salvadoreños. And —
AMY GOODMAN: Roberto, we have to break, but we’re going to come back and also want to talk about your fraught relationship with your father, and this revelation in your book that he was a young witness to La Matanza of 1932, the peasant uprising in the government massacre, killings of thousands and thousands of Salvadorans. Roberto Lovato is the award-winning journalist. His memoir is just out. It’s called Unforgetting. Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: “Días y Flores” by Silvio Rodríguez. Our guest today is Roberto Lovato, the award-winning journalist, author of Unforgetting: A Memoir of Family, Migration, Gangs, and Revolution in the Americas. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. Juan?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Roberto, before break, you were talking about, mentioning La Matanza in 1932. A lot of people don’t realize that the FMLN of the ’70s and ’80s took its name, of Farabundo Martí, Agustín Farabundo Martí, who was one of the organizers of the peasant uprising of 1932 and was also one of the founders of the Central American Communist Party. Could you talk about the links between what happened in 1932, in your understanding of it, as well as the development of the FMLN?
ROBERTO LOVATO: Yeah. I mean, in my view and in the view of historians like Aldo Lauria-Santiago and Erik Ching and Greg Gould, you know, it really — the FMLN probably should have been named the Feliciano Ama — Frente Feliciano Ama para la Liberación Nacional, because it was primarily an Indigenous uprising, right? Indigenous peoples started seeing their kids, the little — the soft part of their heads started sinking in, and watching their kids die. And they rebelled. And there was also communists organizing with them. But really, the core groups of it and the local leadership was Indigenous.
And so, that, you know — and the way history works, oftentimes we erase Indigenous agency. And so, I felt it important to talk about how — you know, what historians have taught us about La Matanza, that people rose up trying to overthrow the government in what was the first communist insurrection. There were communists involved, including Farabundo Martí. And a man named El General, Maximiliano Hernández Martínez, saw an opportunity not just to take power, because he was the vice president, but also then perpetrate what scholars at Oxford have told me is one of the single most violent episodes in world history, as far as the number of people killed per day in a concentrated space and per week in a concentrated space. And so, you know, there’s a — the records of La Matanza were buried, burned, destroyed, by and large. There’s some in — some historians in El Salvador are starting to reconstitute them and rebuild the memory and unforget, right? Because, you know, states are nothing if not manufacturers of — mass manufacturers of amnesia.
And so, you know, from that point on, you get military dictatorship, one of the longest-standing military dictatorships in the Americas. But you also get one of the most consistent left oppositions, and effective left oppositions, in the Americas in the Salvadoran people’s struggle, which is part of the reason I wrote my book, because those pathetic images of children crying and mothers screaming, the sounds, the soundbites of mothers screaming in places like Karnes, are the dominant images, along with gangs of Salvadorans, when, in fact, you’ve got this incredible, astonishingly incredible, political capability that Salvadorans have had and still have.
AMY GOODMAN: So, La Matanza, you reveal in your book — talk about your father’s connection as a witness.
ROBERTO LOVATO: Yeah, my father, Ramón Alfredo Lovato, Pop Ramón, known to those of us who love him, was 9 years old when this happened in January of 1932. And I didn’t even know this. I was teaching in the country’s first Central American studies program at Cal State Northridge, and we were trying to find books which you can’t find in English, except for a few, like the one by Gould and Santiago. And, you know, I was doing research on La Matanza. Then I realized, “Hey, this town, Ahuachapán, is where my dad is from.” It was one of the major centers. And my dad never said anything for decades. So then I start doing the research, and I finally ask my dad, and he reveals to me that he had seen La Matanza.
And it was an epic moment in my family history and in my own life, because it explained a lot to me about why I was such a crazy kid that used to gangster lean, like in that song, and run in certain violent and kind of dangerous circles or join the FMLN and other crazy things that I’ve done in my life, had this deep undercurrent of family history that I think a lot of us have in our families, family secrets. And I try to connect those family secrets to the secrets of nations, like with the Matanza, which was, again, covered up and buried along with mass gravesites that are still unexcavated to this day.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And speaking of family secrets, you also reveal in your book that your father, who had worked for United Airlines for many years as a ramp service worker, also had his own underground life, basically, in the Mission District of San Francisco selling contraband.
ROBERTO LOVATO: Yeah, my dad was, along with Santana’s father, involved in the contraband industry in San Francisco’s Mission District. A lot of colorful characters came out of there. And my dad was at the center of it. And my dad, a very smart guy, created a transnational network of contraband, of jewelry, electrodomestics, calculators, perfume, eventually guns. My dad was running guns between El Salvador — I mean, San Francisco and El Salvador. He wasn’t selling them to, like, the fascists or to the FMLN or anything. This was before, in the prewar era, in the '70s. He was doing it to anybody who could afford it. But I learned about the construction of criminality at a very personal level. You know, I had shame about my dad, and I didn't — and my dad’s activities.
And I started excavating the history. I find out that it wasn’t just my dad. It was my Mamá Tey, my grandmother, who made pupusas with me, for me and our family. And with the same hands that she made pupusas, she also transferred — she was actually the originator of this transnational network of contraband that sustained our family. And so, I’m not going to call my abuelita a criminal, or my dad a criminal. I think they were people that were trying to sustain their families by any ways they could and under like — you know, for example, they lived through an El Salvador that didn’t just see La Matanza and the genocide, but a poverty in the Great Depression that made Steinbeck’s Grapes of Wrath look like a wine festival.
AMY GOODMAN: Finally, William Barr, the current attorney general, the attorney general under George H.W. Bush — we just have a minute, but as you wrap up, Roberto, what is his connection to this story?
ROBERTO LOVATO: William Barr, as attorney general under the first Bush, redeployed FBI resources, in the greatest deployment of FBI resources up to that point, taking FBI agents who were fighting foreign — you know, looking at foreign “threats,” and started focusing them on gangs. And then he starts looking at MS-13 and other gangs right after the L.A. riots. You can see he was there in L.A., and he started us on the path to eventually, like, militarizing the police, that we have right now. And then, he then also had the INS deport the gang “problem” to El Salvador, and then he exported, after the war, U.S.-style policing. And then, I found out that military trainers from El Salvador actually came to train LAPD in counterinsurgency, and other police forces. It’s just when you start seeing the Robocopization of cop uniforms — right? — and that we have now. And William Barr had everything to do with — had not everything, but he had a lot to do with this. I had to sing his song, because he deserves all the credit he deserves for what he did to El Salvador and to L.A. and to our national situation long before Trump.
AMY GOODMAN: Roberto Lovato, there is so much more in this stunning memoir. Roberto is an award-winning journalist and author of Unforgetting: A Memoir of Family, Migration, Gangs, and Revolution.
And that does it for our show. Democracy Now! is produced with Renée Feltz, Mike Burke, Deena Guzder, Libby Rainey, Nermeen Shaikh, María Taracena, Carla Wills, Tami Woronoff. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. Wear a mask. Stay safe.