democracynow--2020-09-07--Freedom Struggle: Angela Davis on Calls to Defund Police, Racism & Capitalism, and the 2020 Election

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , as we turn now to look at the uprising against police brutality and racism launched in May after the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis .
The protests have helped dramatically shift public opinion on policing and systemic racism , as “ defund the police ” becomes a rallying cry of the movement .
For more on this historic moment , we turn @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Angela Davis , professor emerita at the University of Califonia , Santa Cruz .
For half a century , Angela Davis has been one of the most influential activists and intellectuals in the United States and an icon of the Black liberation movement .
I interviewed her in June and asked her if she thought this moment is truly a turning point .
Now attention is being turned towards the symbols of slavery , the symbols of colonialism .
And , of course , any campaigns against racism in this country have to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , the conditions of Indigenous people .
I think it ’ s important that we ’ re seeing these demonstrations , but I think at the same time we have to recognize that we can not simply get rid of the history .
We have to recognize the devastatingly negative role that that history has played in charting the trajectory of the United States of America .
And so , I think that these assaults on statues represent an attempt to begin to think through what we have to do to bring down @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , create new institutions that can attend to the needs of all people .
ANGELA DAVIS : Yeah , racism is integrally linked to capitalism .
And I think it ’ s a mistake to assume that we can combat racism by leaving capitalism in place .
As Cedric Robinson pointed out in his book Black Marxism , capitalism is racial capitalism .
And , of course , to just say for a moment , that Marx pointed out that what he called primitive accumulation , capital doesn ’ t just appear from @ @ @ @ @ @ @ by the labor of slaves .
The Industrial Revolution , which pivoted around the production of capital , was enabled by slave labor in the U.S .
So , I am convinced that the ultimate eradication of racism is going to require us to move toward a more socialist organization of our economies , of our other institutions .
I think we have a long way to go before we can begin to talk about an economic system that is not based on exploitation and on the super-exploitation of Black people , Latinx @ @ @ @ @ @ @ GOODMAN : Angela Davis , I wanted to ask you about another event that ’ s taking place on Juneteenth , on June 19th .
The Birmingham Civil Rights Institute is finally going to issue you the Fred L. Shuttlesworth Award during a virtual event on Juneteenth .
And I wanted to ask you about this , because you returned to your hometown of Birmingham , Alabama , last February after the institute had at first rescinded the award due to your support for BDS — Boycott , Divestment and Sanctions movement — @ @ @ @ @ @ @ outcry , the institute reversed its decision .
More than 3,000 people gathered to see you talk at an alternative event to honor you , which was hosted by the Birmingham Committee for Truth and Reconciliation .
This is a clip of your comments that day .
ANGELA DAVIS : It became clear to me that this might actually be a teachable moment .
ANGELA DAVIS : … That we might seize this moment to reflect on what it means to live on this planet in the 21st century and our responsibilities not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , but to people all over the planet .
And , you know , while at first it was a total shock to me that they offered this award to me , and then they rescinded it , I ’ m realizing now that that was an important moment , because it encouraged people to think about the meaning of human rights and why is it that Palestinians could be excluded from the process of working toward human rights .
Palestinian activists have long supported Black people ’ s struggle against racism .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ coming from Palestine was a major source of courage for me .
In Ferguson , Palestinians were the first to express international solidarity .
And there has been this very important connection between the two struggles for many decades , so that I ’ m going to be really happy to receive the award , which now represents a rethinking of the rather backward position that the institute assumed , that Palestinians could be excluded from the circle of those working toward a future of justice , equality and human rights .
AMY @ @ @ @ @ @ @ going on in the West Bank right now and about the whole issue of international solidarity , the global response to the killing of George Floyd .
In the occupied West Bank , protesters denounced Floyd ’ s murder and the recent killing of Iyad el-Hallak , a 32-year-old Palestinian special needs student who was shot to death by Israeli forces in occupied East Jerusalem .
He was reportedly chanting “ Black lives matter ” and “ Palestinian lives matter , ” when Israeli police gunned him down , claiming he was armed @ @ @ @ @ @ @ seeing , not only in Palestine and the United States , but around the world , the kind of global response , the tens of thousands of people who marched in Spain , who marched in England , in Berlin , in Munich , all over the world , as this touches a chord and they make demands in their own countries , not only in solidarity with what ’ s happening in the United States ?
And then I want to ask you about the U.S. election that ’ s coming up @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , my position really hasn ’ t changed .
I ’ m not going to actually support either of the major candidates .
But I do think we have to participate in the election .
I mean , that isn ’ t to say that I won ’ t vote for the Democratic candidate .
What I ’ m saying is that in our electoral system as it exists , neither party represents the future that we need in this country .
Both parties remain connected to corporate capitalism .
But the election @ @ @ @ @ @ @ gets to lead the country to a better future , but rather how we can support ourselves and our own ability to continue to organize and place pressure on those in power .
And I don ’ t think there ’ s a question about which candidate would allow that process to unfold .
AMY GOODMAN : The legendary scholar and activist Angela Davis .
If you ’ d like to see our full interview , go to democracynow.org .
And that does it for our show .
Democracy Now !
is produced @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Deena Guzder , Libby Rainey , Nermeen Shaikh , María Taracena , Carla Wills , Tami Woronoff , Charina Nadura , Sam Alcoff , Tey-Marie Astudillo , John Hamilton , Robby Karran , Hany Massoud and Adriano Contreras .
Our general manager is Julie Crosby .
Special thanks to Becca Staley , Miriam Barnard , Paul Powell , Mike DiFilippo , Miguel Nogueira , Hugh Gran , Denis Moynihan , David Prude and Dennis McCormick .
Please , stay safe .
Save lives .
Wear a mask .
I ’ m Amy Goodman @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman, as we turn now to look at the uprising against police brutality and racism launched in May after the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis. The protests have helped dramatically shift public opinion on policing and systemic racism, as “defund the police” becomes a rallying cry of the movement.
For more on this historic moment, we turn to the legendary activist and scholar Dr. Angela Davis, professor emerita at the University of Califonia, Santa Cruz. For half a century, Angela Davis has been one of the most influential activists and intellectuals in the United States and an icon of the Black liberation movement. I interviewed her in June and asked her if she thought this moment is truly a turning point.
ANGELA DAVIS: This is an extraordinary moment. I have never experienced anything like the conditions we are currently experiencing, the conjuncture created by the COVID-19 pandemic and the recognition of the systemic racism that has been rendered visible under these conditions because of the disproportionate deaths in Black and Latinx communities. And this is a moment I don’t know whether I ever expected to experience.
When the protests began, of course, around the murder of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery and Tony McDade and many others who have lost their lives to racist state violence and vigilante violence — when these protests erupted, I remembered something that I’ve said many times to encourage activists, who often feel that the work that they do is not leading to tangible results. I often ask them to consider the very long trajectory of Black struggles. And what has been most important is the forging of legacies, the new arenas of struggle that can be handed down to younger generations.
But I’ve often said one never knows when conditions may give rise to a conjuncture such as the current one that rapidly shifts popular consciousness and suddenly allows us to move in the direction of radical change. If one does not engage in the ongoing work when such a moment arises, we cannot take advantage of the opportunities to change. And, of course, this moment will pass. The intensity of the current demonstrations cannot be sustained over time, but we will have to be ready to shift gears and address these issues in different arenas, including, of course, the electoral arena.
AMY GOODMAN: Angela Davis, you have long been a leader of the critical resistance movement, the abolition movement. And I’m wondering if you can explain the demand, as you see it, what you feel needs to be done, around defunding the police, and then around prison abolition.
ANGELA DAVIS: Well, the call to defund the police is, I think, an abolitionist demand, but it reflects only one aspect of the process represented by the demand. Defunding the police is not simply about withdrawing funding for law enforcement and doing nothing else. And it appears as if this is the rather superficial understanding that has caused Biden to move in the direction he’s moving in.
It’s about shifting public funds to new services and new institutions — mental health counselors, who can respond to people who are in crisis without arms. It’s about shifting funding to education, to housing, to recreation. All of these things help to create security and safety. It’s about learning that safety, safeguarded by violence, is not really safety.
And I would say that abolition is not primarily a negative strategy. It’s not primarily about dismantling, getting rid of, but it’s about reenvisioning. It’s about building anew. And I would argue that abolition is a feminist strategy. And one sees in these abolitionist demands that are emerging the pivotal influence of feminist theories and practices.
AMY GOODMAN: Explain that further.
ANGELA DAVIS: I want us to see feminism not only as addressing issues of gender, but rather as a methodological approach of understanding the intersectionality of struggles and issues. Abolition feminism counters carceral feminism, which has unfortunately assumed that issues such as violence against women can be effectively addressed by using police force, by using imprisonment as a solution. And of course we know that Joseph Biden, in 1994, who claims that the Violence Against Women Act was such an important moment in his career — the Violence Against Women Act was couched within the 1994 Crime Act, the Clinton Crime Act.
And what we’re calling for is a process of decriminalization, not — recognizing that threats to safety, threats to security, come not primarily from what is defined as crime, but rather from the failure of institutions in our country to address issues of health, issues of violence, education, etc. So, abolition is really about rethinking the kind of future we want, the social future, the economic future, the political future. It’s about revolution, I would argue.
AMY GOODMAN: You write in Freedom Is a Constant Struggle, “Neoliberal ideology drives us to focus on individuals, ourselves, individual victims, individual perpetrators. But how is it possible to solve the massive problem of racist state violence by calling upon individual police officers to bear the burden of that history and to assume that by prosecuting them, by exacting our revenge on them, we would have somehow made progress in eradicating racism?” So, explain what exactly you’re demanding.
ANGELA DAVIS: Well, neoliberal logic assumes that the fundamental unit of society is the individual, and I would say the abstract individual. According to that logic, Black people can combat racism by pulling themselves up by their own individual bootstraps. That logic recognizes — or fails, rather, to recognize that there are institutional barriers that cannot be brought down by individual determination. If a Black person is materially unable to attend the university, the solution is not affirmative action, they argue, but rather the person simply needs to work harder, get good grades and do what is necessary in order to acquire the funds to pay for tuition. Neoliberal logic deters us from thinking about the simpler solution, which is free education.
I’m thinking about the fact that we have been aware of the need for these institutional strategies at least since 1935 — but of course before, but I’m choosing 1935 because that was the year when W.E.B. Du Bois published his germinal Black Reconstruction in America. And the question was not what should individual Black people do, but rather how to reorganize and restructure post-slavery society in order to guarantee the incorporation of those who had been formerly enslaved. The society could not remain the same — or should not have remained the same. Neoliberalism resists change at the individual level. It asks the individual to adapt to conditions of capitalism, to conditions of racism.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you, Angela Davis, about the monuments to racists, colonizers, Confederates, that are continuing to fall across the United States and around the world. Did you think you would ever see this? You think about Bree Newsome after the horror at Mother Emanuel Church in Charleston, South Carolina, who shimmied up that flagpole on the grounds of the South Carolina Legislature and took down the Confederate flag, and they put it right on back up. What about what we’re seeing today?
ANGELA DAVIS: Well, of course, Bree Newsome was a wonderful pioneer. And I think it’s important to link this trend to the campaign in South Africa, Rhodes Must Fall. And, of course, I think this reflects the extent to which we are being called upon to deeply reflect on the role of historical racisms that have brought us to the point where we are today.
You know, racism should have been immediately confronted in the aftermath of the end of slavery. This is what Dr. Du Bois’s analysis was all about, not so much in terms of, “Well, what we were going to do about these poor people who have been enslaved so many generations?” but, rather, “How can we reorganize our society in order to guarantee the incorporation of previously enslaved people?”
Now attention is being turned towards the symbols of slavery, the symbols of colonialism. And, of course, any campaigns against racism in this country have to address, in the very first place, the conditions of Indigenous people. I think it’s important that we’re seeing these demonstrations, but I think at the same time we have to recognize that we cannot simply get rid of the history. We have to recognize the devastatingly negative role that that history has played in charting the trajectory of the United States of America. And so, I think that these assaults on statues represent an attempt to begin to think through what we have to do to bring down institutions and reenvision them, reorganize them, create new institutions that can attend to the needs of all people.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about racism and capitalism? You often write and speak about how they are intimately connected. And talk about a world that you envision.
ANGELA DAVIS: Yeah, racism is integrally linked to capitalism. And I think it’s a mistake to assume that we can combat racism by leaving capitalism in place. As Cedric Robinson pointed out in his book Black Marxism, capitalism is racial capitalism. And, of course, to just say for a moment, that Marx pointed out that what he called primitive accumulation, capital doesn’t just appear from nowhere. The original capital was provided by the labor of slaves. The Industrial Revolution, which pivoted around the production of capital, was enabled by slave labor in the U.S. So, I am convinced that the ultimate eradication of racism is going to require us to move toward a more socialist organization of our economies, of our other institutions. I think we have a long way to go before we can begin to talk about an economic system that is not based on exploitation and on the super-exploitation of Black people, Latinx people and other racialized populations.
But I do think that we now have the conceptual means to engage in discussions, popular discussions, about capitalism. Occupy gave us new language. The notion of the prison-industrial complex requires us to understand the globalization of capitalism. Anti-capitalist consciousness helps us to understand the predicament of immigrants, who are barred from the U.S. by the wall that has been created by the current occupant. These conditions have been created by global capitalism. And I think this is a period during which we need to begin that process of popular education, which will allow people to understand the interconnections of racism, heteropatriarchy, capitalism.
AMY GOODMAN: Angela Davis, I wanted to ask you about another event that’s taking place on Juneteenth, on June 19th. The Birmingham Civil Rights Institute is finally going to issue you the Fred L. Shuttlesworth Award during a virtual event on Juneteenth. And I wanted to ask you about this, because you returned to your hometown of Birmingham, Alabama, last February after the institute had at first rescinded the award due to your support for BDS — Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement — and your support of Palestinians. After outcry, the institute reversed its decision. More than 3,000 people gathered to see you talk at an alternative event to honor you, which was hosted by the Birmingham Committee for Truth and Reconciliation. This is a clip of your comments that day. ANGELA DAVIS: It became clear to me that this might actually be a teachable moment. IMANI PERRY: Yes. ANGELA DAVIS: … That we might seize this moment to reflect on what it means to live on this planet in the 21st century and our responsibilities not only to people in our immediate community, but to people all over the planet.
AMY GOODMAN: We were there covering this amazing moment, where the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute had rescinded the award to you, the Fred L. Shuttlesworth Award, went through enormous turmoil. The mayor of Birmingham, so many people across the spectrum criticized them for it, but then this process happened, and you are going to be awarded this. Can you talk about the significance of this moment?
ANGELA DAVIS: A lot has happened over the last period, including within the context of the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute. They have completely reorganized. They have reorganized their board. They have been involved in conversations with the community. Of course, as you know, the mayor of Birmingham was threatening to withdraw funding from the institute. There was a generalized uprising in the Black community.
And, you know, while at first it was a total shock to me that they offered this award to me, and then they rescinded it, I’m realizing now that that was an important moment, because it encouraged people to think about the meaning of human rights and why is it that Palestinians could be excluded from the process of working toward human rights. Palestinian activists have long supported Black people’s struggle against racism. When I was in jail, solidarity coming from Palestine was a major source of courage for me. In Ferguson, Palestinians were the first to express international solidarity. And there has been this very important connection between the two struggles for many decades, so that I’m going to be really happy to receive the award, which now represents a rethinking of the rather backward position that the institute assumed, that Palestinians could be excluded from the circle of those working toward a future of justice, equality and human rights.
AMY GOODMAN: Speaking about what’s going on in the West Bank right now and about the whole issue of international solidarity, the global response to the killing of George Floyd. In the occupied West Bank, protesters denounced Floyd’s murder and the recent killing of Iyad el-Hallak, a 32-year-old Palestinian special needs student who was shot to death by Israeli forces in occupied East Jerusalem. He was reportedly chanting “Black lives matter” and “Palestinian lives matter,” when Israeli police gunned him down, claiming he was armed. These links that you’re seeing, not only in Palestine and the United States, but around the world, the kind of global response, the tens of thousands of people who marched in Spain, who marched in England, in Berlin, in Munich, all over the world, as this touches a chord and they make demands in their own countries, not only in solidarity with what’s happening in the United States? And then I want to ask you about the U.S. election that’s coming up in November.
ANGELA DAVIS: Yes, Palestinian activists have long supported Black people’s struggle against racism, as I pointed out. And I’m hoping that today’s young activists recognize how important Palestinian solidarity has been to the Black cause, and that they recognize that we have a profound responsibility to support Palestinian struggles, as well.
I think it’s also important for us to look in the direction of Brazil, whose current political leader competes with our current political leader in many dangerous ways, I would say. Brazil — if we think we have a problem with racist police violence in the United States of America, look at Brazil. Marielle Franco was assassinated because she was challenging the militarization of the police and the racist violence unleashed there. I think 4,000 people were killed last year alone by the police in Brazil. So, I’m saying this because —
AMY GOODMAN: And, of course, the president of Brazil, a close ally of President Trump. We only have two minutes, and I want to get to the election. When I interviewed you in 2016, you said you wouldn’t support either main-party candidate at the time. What are your thoughts today for 2020?
ANGELA DAVIS: Well, my position really hasn’t changed. I’m not going to actually support either of the major candidates. But I do think we have to participate in the election. I mean, that isn’t to say that I won’t vote for the Democratic candidate. What I’m saying is that in our electoral system as it exists, neither party represents the future that we need in this country. Both parties remain connected to corporate capitalism. But the election will not so much be about who gets to lead the country to a better future, but rather how we can support ourselves and our own ability to continue to organize and place pressure on those in power. And I don’t think there’s a question about which candidate would allow that process to unfold.
So I think that we’re going to have to translate some of the passion that has characterized these demonstrations into work within the electoral arena, recognizing that the electoral arena is not the best place for the expression of radical politics. But if we want to continue this work, we certainly need a person in office who will be more amenable to our mass pressure. And to me, that is the only thing that someone like a Joe Biden represents. But we have to persuade people to go out and vote to guarantee that the current occupant of the White House is forever ousted.
AMY GOODMAN: The legendary scholar and activist Angela Davis. If you’d like to see our full interview, go to democracynow.org.
And that does it for our show. Democracy Now! is produced with Renée Feltz, Mike Burke, Deena Guzder, Libby Rainey, Nermeen Shaikh, María Taracena, Carla Wills, Tami Woronoff, Charina Nadura, Sam Alcoff, Tey-Marie Astudillo, John Hamilton, Robby Karran, Hany Massoud and Adriano Contreras. Our general manager is Julie Crosby. Special thanks to Becca Staley, Miriam Barnard, Paul Powell, Mike DiFilippo, Miguel Nogueira, Hugh Gran, Denis Moynihan, David Prude and Dennis McCormick. Please, stay safe. Save lives. Wear a mask. I’m Amy Goodman. Thanks so much for joining us.


democracynow--2020-09-07--Cornel West & Ben Jealous on Whether Progressives Can Push Joe Biden Leftward If He Defeats Trump

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : Today , a Democracy Now !
special .
We look at the Democratic Party ’ s nomination of Joe Biden for president and his historic pick of Senator Kamala Harris as his vice-presidential running mate , making her the first woman of color to run on a major party ticket .
Just after the Democratic National Convention wrapped up , I spoke with Dr. Cornel West , professor of the practice of public philosophy at Harvard University , author of numerous books @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Fire .
In 2017 , Cornel West was in Charlottesville , Virginia , when neo-Nazis stormed the campus .
He and other clergy members were protected by anti-fascists from the mob of white supremacists .
Also with us , in Baltimore , Maryland , is Ben Jealous , president of People for the American Way , former president of the NAACP .
He ran for governor of Maryland in 2018 .
I began the conversation , just after the Democratic convention concluded , by asking Ben Jealous about what the convention represented .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ Ben Jealous , head of People for the American Way .
More with them in a minute .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman , as we continue with our conversation , just after the Democratic National Convention wound down , with Harvard professor Cornel West and Ben Jealous , president of People for the American Way .
I asked them about how the DNC showcased a broad anti-Trump coalition , including prominent Republican figures , but not so @ @ @ @ @ @ @ progressive wing .
This is former Ohio Republican Governor John Kasich addressing the DNC .
AMY GOODMAN : That ’ s Dr. Cornel West , professor of the practice of public policy at Harvard University , and Ben Jealous , now president of People for the American Way , former head of the NAACP .
You can see all our Breaking with Convention coverage , including on the Republican National Convention , at democracynow.org .
When we come back , we look at the uprising against police brutality and racism with professor Angela @ @

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Today, a Democracy Now! special. We look at the Democratic Party’s nomination of Joe Biden for president and his historic pick of Senator Kamala Harris as his vice-presidential running mate, making her the first woman of color to run on a major party ticket.
Just after the Democratic National Convention wrapped up, I spoke with Dr. Cornel West, professor of the practice of public philosophy at Harvard University, author of numerous books, including Race Matters and Black Prophetic Fire. In 2017, Cornel West was in Charlottesville, Virginia, when neo-Nazis stormed the campus. He and other clergy members were protected by anti-fascists from the mob of white supremacists.
Also with us, in Baltimore, Maryland, is Ben Jealous, president of People for the American Way, former president of the NAACP. He ran for governor of Maryland in 2018. I began the conversation, just after the Democratic convention concluded, by asking Ben Jealous about what the convention represented.
BEN JEALOUS: You know, look, I think that the theme of this convention was really one of unity. This was a time when we have to come together to defeat a president who is the most evil, the most corrupt that any of us have seen. And that says a lot.
It also was a time when we saw two nominees who we, as progressives, know we can work with. Kamala Harris’s sister, who introduced her, Maya, is the former head of the ACLU of Northern California. Kamala ran for DA in a much more conservative time, and yet did so as an outspoken opponent of the death penalty, who then held her ground early in her term when she was tested, when an officer was killed, and the entire liberal establishment in Northern California came down on her, and she said, “The death penalty is wrong, period.” Tremendous courage. And Joe Biden, who Bernie himself said is poised to be the most progressive president since FDR.
And so, while it’s not Bernie, and while maybe it’s not somebody else someone hoped for, what we do know is that these are people that we can work with. These are people who, at their best, represent our best values — literally, the daughter of civil rights activists, the sister of a civil rights lawyer, who herself told me 15 years ago she became a prosecutor because it wasn’t enough to just fight the power, we also had to hold the power. And I’ve seen her act courageously. So I’m very hopeful.
And I have no doubt that we can work with Joe. Like Ady, who spoke so beautifully — and that was a true highlight for me — I believe that we must move towards Medicare for All. I also believe that Joe Biden will take us further in that direction certainly than Donald Trump, and, frankly, further than most presidents, that we have an opportunity here to move things in the right direction again. And as organizers, that’s the most important thing to get out of any presidential election, is a president that you can move in the right direction.
AMY GOODMAN: And, Professor Cornel West, your reaction to this week and the positions of the Democratic candidates for president and vice president?
CORNEL WEST: You know, Sister Amy, my points of reference really are the freedom dreams that we just heard from “Zoom” of the Commodores and the genius Lionel Richie; of Ella Baker, who was invoked by Brother Biden in the first sentence of his speech, the Ella Baker who was a revolutionary, the Ella Baker who was working on the Mass Party Organizing Committee with Arthur Kinoy and the great William Kunstler, actually working for a third party because she thought that the two-party system was so decrepit; and then also to Curtis Mayfield, that they’ve been playing over and over again, to “Move On Up.”
But you’ve got to move on up from poverty. And in order to do it, you’ve got to talk about poverty. If you’re going to move on up from Wall Street greed and Wall Street crimes, you’ve got to talk about Wall Street greed and Wall Street crimes. If you’re going to move on up from the Pentagon militarism around the world, you’ve got to talk about it. Those are the taboo issues that we don’t get serious wrestling with. So when you really talk about the soul of America and the battle for the soul of America, much of that soul has been evacuated by the Pentagon greed and the Wall Street greed and the inability of the police and other institutions to treat Black people and Brown people, Indigenous people as human beings.
So, I agree with Brother Ben in terms of being part of an anti-fascist coalition, that I think we’re forced to vote for Biden. But we’re not going to lie about Biden, we’re not going to lie about Harris. We’re going to tell the truth about their captivity and their refusal to hit Pentagon money spending and militarism around the world, to hit Wall Street greed and to also speak substantively to issues of poverty.
You can’t have massive protests all around the country, the largest in the history of the country, you can’t have Brother Barber and Sister Theoharis out there talking about poverty, and then, when you get to the convention, you get this spectacle that has nothing to do with wrestling with poverty. I think Brother Cory was the only one to even talk about it, for the most part. None of the major figures did. Thank God, did Bernie. Thank God AOC got her little 90 minutes [sic], as opposed to the Republicans —
AMY GOODMAN: Ninety seconds.
CORNEL WEST: — getting major — I’m sorry, 90 seconds. Exactly, 90 seconds. So that, you know, I’m with Ben in terms of we’ve got to vote for Biden, but never, ever lying about him, and not coming to terms with the fact that at this moment, with the decline and fall of the American Empire, it looks as if the system is unable to generate enough energy to seriously reform itself. It remains sanitized, superficial. We’re getting Lawrence Welk’s bubbles rather than Prince’s Revolution. I want to go to Prince’s Revolution concert. I want fundamental change.
AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to Joe Biden’s comments last night about Social Security. JOE BIDEN: For our seniors, Social Security is a sacred obligation, a sacred promise made, they paid for. The current president is threatening to break that promise. He’s proposing to eliminate a tax that pays for almost half the Social Security, without any way of making up for that lost revenue, resulting in cuts. I will not let that happen. If I’m your president, we’re going to protect Social Security and Medicare. You have my word.
AMY GOODMAN: During the primary campaign, Bernie Sanders released an ad highlighting Biden’s past support for cutting Social Security and Medicare. The ad highlighted an interview Biden did on Meet the Press in 2007. TIM RUSSERT: Senator, we have a deficit. We have Social Security and Medicare looming. Would you consider looking at those programs — age of eligibility — SEN. JOE BIDEN: Absolutely. TIM RUSSERT: — cost of living — put it all on the table? SEN. JOE BIDEN: The answer is absolutely. You have to. I mean, you know, one of the things that my — you know, the political advisers say to me is, “Whoa! Don’t touch that third” — look, the American people aren’t stupid. It’s a real simple proposition. Social Security is not the hard one to solve. Medicare, that is the gorilla in the room. And you’ve got to put all of it on the table. TIM RUSSERT: Everything? SEN. JOE BIDEN: Everything. You’ve got to.
AMY GOODMAN: “You’ve got to put all of it on the table.” Ben Jealous, both you and professor Cornel West have been surrogates for Bernie Sanders. Can you talk about how that relates to Joe Biden today and his positions?
BEN JEALOUS: Joe Biden today needs Bernie, needs everyone who voted for Bernie, to become president. Joe Biden today has moved with the party to the left. And Joe Biden today gets, in his core, that we have to protect Medicare, that we have to protect Social Security. I won’t deny he’s a politician who has been at different places at different points. But I know where he is now. And I think we have to take a cue from Bernie and be very clear that everybody needs to vote against Trump and for Biden in this moment, so we have a president that we can move. There’s no moving Trump, but it is definitely possible to move Joe. And every organizer ultimately needs a president that they can move.
AMY GOODMAN: So, Cornel West, I said, you know, this obviously — that was a clip from 2007. That’s what? Thirteen years ago.
CORNEL WEST: That’s right. That’s right.
AMY GOODMAN: But only recently, presidential candidate Joe Biden said even if a Medicare for All — now, that’s different than Medicare that he was talking about in 2007, that would have been Medicare for everyone in this country — even if Medicare for All were passed, which would mean bipartisan support, he would veto it, if he were president.
CORNEL WEST: I mean, one — I mean, Brother Biden told my dear Brother Bernie, in front of the nation, “I never, ever entertained the possibility of cutting Medicare and Social Security.” And you’ve got the evidence that he did. So he lied, you know. But, I mean —
AMY GOODMAN: Actually, let me go to Joe Biden.
CORNEL WEST: — as Brother Ben is right. I mean, politicians —
AMY GOODMAN: Let me go —
CORNEL WEST: Politicians lie all the time. But —
AMY GOODMAN: Let me go to Joe Biden.
CORNEL WEST: Yeah, go right ahead.
AMY GOODMAN: He was speaking on MSNBC with Lawrence O’Donnell, saying what he would do if he were elected president and he got a Medicare for All bill. JOE BIDEN: I would veto anything that delays providing the security and the certainty of healthcare being available now. If they got that through, and by some miracle, and there was an epiphany that occurred, and some miracle occurred that said, “OK, it’s passed,” then you’ve got to look at the cost. I want to know: How did they find the $35 trillion? What is that doing? Is it going to significantly raise taxes on the middle class? Which it will. What’s going to happen? Look, my opposition isn’t to the principle that there should be — you should have Medicare. I mean, if everybody — healthcare should be a right in America. My opposition relates to whether or not, A, it’s doable, two, what the cost is, and what the consequences for the rest of the budget are.
AMY GOODMAN: So, Professor West, that was Joe Biden in March, just as we’re moving into the pandemic. And do you think this pandemic has highlighted so many inequities, that it would make it actually easier, because of the horror of the number of deaths disproportionately affecting people of color and poorer people in this country, to actually move that agenda forward? And do you think Joe Biden could be that person as president?
CORNEL WEST: Well, I hope so. I mean, that’s why we’ve got to push him over the line, but we have to be very honest with ourselves. I mean, we’ve got over 68% of fellow citizens who support Medicare for All — 46% of Republicans, 85% of Democrats do. And yet, big pharmaceutical companies, big private insurance companies, the donors, still dictate the destiny of policy.
Now, people are not stupid in this regard. I mean, the distinctive features of a decline of an empire, military overreach — 53 cents of every dollar is going to the military, 53 cents of every dollar in the city of Chicago goes to the police — militarism domestically, militarism abroad. But at the same time, you say to yourself, “Well, the people themselves are moving in a progressive direction” — Brother Ben is right — “but there’s no translation.”
That’s why we didn’t hear enough serious progressive voices during the spectacle, because you’ve got this big money still rendering captive so many of those in the Democratic Party, and they want to speak and give a lip service to justice, but there’s no real substance there in terms of sustaining an attack on poverty, sustaining an attack on the mass incarceration system and the new Jim Crow, sustaining a redistribution of wealth downward. You can’t talk about racism if you don’t talk about Black people having access to wealth. It could be reparations. It could be redistribution. We have to have access to wealth and income. And this is true for Black, for Brown. This is true for Indigenous peoples. This is true for Asians, across the board.
And so, what has happened, though, Sister Amy, is that we’re getting a sad spectacle that remains on the surface, and yet the massive suffering and misery that’s taking place is intensifying. And we’re getting the unraveling of public life with the post office and a whole host of other public institutions, education, and we’re getting the inability to envision a substantive alternative to the present, so we end up tied to this nightmarish reality.
So, yes, a vote for Biden as an anti-fascist vote, that’s different than in any way falling prey to illusions. We have to be able to keep our hopes while we kill the illusions. And if we can’t walk that tightrope, we’re not going to make it as a country.
AMY GOODMAN: Medicare for All issue, when it came to the presidential debates, Kamala Harris raised her hand when asked if she supported Medicare for All, but, the next day, said she hadn’t heard the question properly, she misunderstood. Ben Jealous, you’ve known Kamala Harris for a long time.
BEN JEALOUS: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: Now, the vice president doesn’t determine the agenda, of course; the president does. But your thoughts on this? And as a supporter for this, Ben Jealous, what do you think is the best strategy? People are saying you wait until November 4th, and then you apply massive pressure. Or do you start now? And if people don’t start now, if they are suppressed, because, as Cornel West said, it’s a vote against fascism, will a pattern be set where it’s too late after the election?
BEN JEALOUS: Yeah, my heart broke when I saw my friend, Mr. Barkan, speak via computer. The last time I was with him, we were just four blocks from the Capitol, together encouraging, helping train dozens of activists who were about to get arrested in protests demanding Medicare for All.
As an organizer, I can’t pretend that it’s all about where we are at this moment. It is always about our vision. It is about the will of the people. And it is about the trend of the movement in our country. And all of those point towards the day when Medicare for All will be a reality.
And, sure, you have — it was in my own primary — you know, establishment progressives, progressives who see themselves as experts on the budget, who have been completely bamboozled by corporations into believing that we can’t afford it. And yet, year after year, we see more and more studies by academics, by think tanks, saying, “You know, actually, Medicare for All is the most affordable option.”
So, I believe that because of the movement in this country, the opinion of the people, as laid out by Dr. West, because of the resolve of organizers, not just Ady, but all the legions inspired by him and by my good friend, Dr. Barber, that we will get Medicare for All. And I don’t depend on the platform position of some politician. No, I look to the will of the people. I look to the movement and the trend. So that’s where my hope is. And as an organizer, I know we have to have a president, we have to have a vice president that we can work with. Can we move Biden? Absolutely. Can we move Harris? Absolutely. And that’s where my confidence is.
AMY GOODMAN: Of course, Ady Barkan did give a major — he gave a few minutes of an address, but I’ve never heard him speak without saying the words “Medicare for All,” and here he didn’t say it — not clear if it was because of the contenders’ positions. Of course, right afterwards, he tweeted, We will be fighting for Medicare for All, starting on November 4th. And he described it. He just didn’t use the words.
But speaking about who spoke, let me ask Cornel West if you’re concerned about — you know, we were showing, at the beginning of the broadcast, all the presidential rivals — almost all of them — in discussion yesterday. And a number of them got key positions, including the former Republican, Bloomberg. You had Amy Klobuchar. You had Cory Booker and so many others. But you didn’t have Julián Castro, who we spoke to at the beginning of the week. How is it possible that the only Latinx presidential candidate was not invited, when almost all of the rest of them were?
CORNEL WEST: I mean, I think it’s ridiculous, I mean, when you’ve got the neofascist gangster in the White House. He started his whole campaign attacking our precious Mexican brothers and sisters. And here you’ve got a Chicano from Texas, who is brilliant and sharp, and doesn’t get a chance to speak. But Brother Bloomberg does. You say, “Wait, Michael Bloomberg, the billionaire?”
I mean, here’s — and then Sister Linda Sarsour gets demonized and pushed out because she stands for Palestinians, she’s against the vicious Israeli occupation. Biden is talking about human rights. Harris is talking about a coalition of conscience. You can’t have a coalition of conscience and talk about human rights if you don’t come to terms with precious Palestinians under Israeli occupation. Ain’t nothing anti-Jewish about that. In fact, it affirms Jewish values coming out of Hebrew scripture: “Justice, justice you shall pursue.” They’re talking about justice.
So, the role of the lobbies — you’ve got AIPAC, you’ve got Big Pharm, you’ve got big private insurance companies, you’ve got K Street, across the board. And these are moral and spiritual issues. These are not tribal. These are not just about identity and group politics. If we can’t reach a point of integrity, honesty and decency — and by “spirituality,” all I mean is the use of empathy and imagination to envision another future, a better future — if we’re unable to do that, we’re locked in, and, lo and behold, we just slide down a slippery slope to chaos and fascism.
AMY GOODMAN: Professor Cornel West and Ben Jealous, head of People for the American Way. More with them in a minute.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman, as we continue with our conversation, just after the Democratic National Convention wound down, with Harvard professor Cornel West and Ben Jealous, president of People for the American Way. I asked them about how the DNC showcased a broad anti-Trump coalition, including prominent Republican figures, but not so many voices from the party’s progressive wing. This is former Ohio Republican Governor John Kasich addressing the DNC.
JOHN KASICH: I’m sure there are Republicans and independents who couldn’t imagine crossing over to support a Democrat. They fear Joe may turn sharp left and leave them behind. I don’t believe that, because I know the measure of the man, is reasonable, faithful, respectful.
AMY GOODMAN: Ben Jealous?
BEN JEALOUS: You know, one of the great moments for me, as president of People For, was that 13 of our young people spoke — Mayor Robert Garcia from Long Beach, a product of our Young People For program; Raumesh Akbari, state senator from Tennessee; Stacey Abrams, who, with Julián Castro, was in the first class. And so, yes, absolutely, I would — you know, the first class of our Young Elected Officials program. And I would love to have seen Julián spoke, and he should have spoke. And yet, you’ve got to look at the future and the trendline. The young people who spoke — Lieutenant Governor Mandela Barnes —
AMY GOODMAN: Of Wisconsin.
BEN JEALOUS: — Mr. Kenyatta, who’s the first openly Black — the first openly gay Black member of the Pennsylvania state Legislature — they represent the future. And we can’t take this away from them.
Sure, there is always a struggle in a party between older politicians and younger politicians. But let’s not pretend like we don’t see the future in the young public servants who spoke during this convention, because it’s there. And it shows a party that is much more distinct, and a party that’s much more in touch, and a party that is being moved in the right direction by the people of this country, which, of course, the Republican Party is not.
And so, this is a moment when I think we have to be very clear with the young people of this country that what they see in AOC, what they see in Raumesh in Tennessee, is a reflection of their power to move this country in the right direction. And what I saw all through the program was evidence of that.
And, you know, sure, parties always bring out somebody from the other party to suggest that we can rebuild the middle. We are, I think, all hungry to get beyond the moment of division in this country. I embrace that. There’s no Republican who represent my values. But are there some who represent my hope that we can get to a place where it’s not just criminal justice reform that we can agree on, but maybe there’s two issues that we can agree on? Certainly. And I welcome that day, because, as a criminal justice reformer, the way that we’ve been able to shrink prisons in places like Texas is by finding the Republicans that we can work with in that moment.
AMY GOODMAN: Ben, very quickly, I was wondering your response to the 13-year-old boy who spoke from New Hampshire, named Brayden Harrington, who had a stutter.
BEN JEALOUS: It made me cry. BRAYDEN HARRINGTON: Without Joe Biden, I wouldn’t be talking to you today. About a few months ago, I met him in New Hampshire. He told me that we were members of the same club: We stutter. It was really amazing to hear that someone like me became vice president. He told me about a book of poems by Yeats he would read out loud to practice. He showed me how he marks his addresses to make them easier to say out loud. So I did the same thing today. We all want the world to feel better. We need the world to feel better. I’m just a regular kid. And in a short amount of time, Joe Biden made me feel more confident about something that’s bothered me my whole life. Joe Biden cared.
BEN JEALOUS: It made me cry. I mean, I grew up with a stutter. I’ve been involved in every presidential since Jesse Jackson’s ’88. I was 14 years old. I was the president of Youth for Jackson in Monterey County. It was another candidate, Joe Biden, who inspired me.
First time I gave a speech to a group of Democrats, I stuttered so badly that an old woman, an old hippie, like so many people who I grew up with, came up to me with a meditation tape and slipped it in my pocket and said, “Boy, please listen to this.”
Being a young person with so much to say, and not being able to get the words out, is deeply painful. I know what my candidacy in Maryland meant to young people who stutter here, to older people who stutter. And I know what Joe Biden has meant to all of us who stutter. Even when I was fighting for Jesse Jackson’s campaign, he was in a very different place in that race. The fact that he had grown up with a stutter and found his voice was as transformative for me, as a young person with a voice, as the candidate that I was pushing in that primary so many years ago.
AMY GOODMAN: And finally, Cornel West, I began by saying you were in Charlottesville, and this is the anniversary of Charlottesville, where the — basically, the Klan without hoods, they felt safe enough in this country today not to wear sheets and cover their identities. Where you were, talk about who you were saved by, since this is going to be the theme next week of President Trump in the Republican National Convention, going after antifa and the anti-fascists, when who has been arrested in this country at this point, been charged? Those charged with murder or attacks have been overwhelmingly Proud Boys and “boogaloo.”
CORNEL WEST: Well, I mean, we were standing as part of an anti-fascist coalition, just the same logic that we talk about in terms of pushing Biden and Harris across the line but also telling the truth about them, there in Charlottesville. That coalition was a broad one.
We saw at the convention, we’ve got Colin Powell, militaristic, still part of that coalition. He’s not my political friend. He’s a brother. I’m a Christian. I try to love everybody, you know. We’ve got my dear Brother Bob Avakian, Revolutionary Communist Party, and Carl Dix, all now talking about voting for Biden, against the fascist, but not fetishizing the vote, not thinking that somehow Biden is going to be this salvific figure or even Biden has principles and integrity that relate to poor and working people.
Brother Ben knows that the mass incarceration regime, you had a whole lot of precious folk who went to jail who stuttered, because of Biden. You’ve got a whole lot of folk who stuttered in Iraq, who were killed, because of Biden’s support. We have to be honest about those issues that relate to the soul of America. You can’t have a soul with massive militarism. You can’t have a soul with massive Wall Street greed. These are fundamental issues. Ben and I have talked about this on the campaign with Brother Bernie.
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to get final comments from Cornel West and Ben Jealous, but we wanted to go to Axios, the interview that Jonathan Swan did with President Trump, talking about Congressmember John Lewis, who had just died. JONATHAN SWAN: John Lewis is lying in state in the U.S. Capitol. How do you think history will remember John Lewis? PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I don’t know. I really don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know John Lewis. He chose not to come to my inauguration. He chose — I don’t — I never met John Lewis, actually, I don’t believe. JONATHAN SWAN: Do you find him impressive? PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Uh, I can’t say one way or the other. I find a lot of people impressive. I find many people not impressive. But no. But I didn’t go — JONATHAN SWAN: Do you find his story impressive? PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: He didn’t come — he didn’t come to my inauguration. He didn’t come to my State of the Union speeches. And that’s OK. That’s his right. And again, nobody has done more for Black Americans than I have. JONATHAN SWAN: All right, but back to — I understand. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: He should have come. JONATHAN SWAN: But back — PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I think he made a big mistake. I think he should have come. JONATHAN SWAN: But taking your relationship with him out of it, do you find his story impressive, what he’s done for this country? PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: He was a person that devoted a lot of energy and a lot of heart to civil rights, but there were many others also.
AMY GOODMAN: “There were many others,” and “He didn’t come to my inauguration or my State of the Union.” Ben Jealous, your final comments, President Trump saying he’s done more for Black people than anyone?
BEN JEALOUS: Look, that is the most cowardly and corrupt president — and vain — that we’ve ever seen. I think that’s just the final word there.
And what I would say to my good friend Dr. West, who’s inspired me literally my entire adult life, and who has been a real friend, the prophetic voice in politics must do two things. One is to be honest about where we are, and the other is to be honest about where we can be. And in our church, in the Black church, in our tradition, we claim the victory in advance, and then we make it real.
And what I know is that there is a day coming when we will have Medicare for All, when we will transform public safety, and that getting to that day begins with getting the man you just saw, Donald Trump, out of office.
AMY GOODMAN: Cornel West, 30 seconds.
BEN JEALOUS: And that we have to be absolutely clear with the young people of this country that they will determine whether Trump stays in office or not, by whether or not they show up to vote.
AMY GOODMAN: Cornel West?
CORNEL WEST: That’s true. No, I agree with Brother Ben. I agree with Brother Ben. I would just add one thing, though, Brother Ben. It’s not just a matter that Medicare will come. We have to point out who the major obstacles are. And those obstacles are big pharmaceutical companies and big private insurance, who too often provide the moneys for the politicians who remain stuck in the middle ground —
BEN JEALOUS: Amen.
CORNEL WEST: — rather than pushing all the way. But I’m with you. I’m with you, though, Brother. Indeed, indeed.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Dr. Cornel West, professor of the practice of public policy at Harvard University, and Ben Jealous, now president of People for the American Way, former head of the NAACP. You can see all our Breaking with Convention coverage, including on the Republican National Convention, at democracynow.org.
When we come back, we look at the uprising against police brutality and racism with professor Angela Davis.


democracynow--2020-09-08--Quid Pro Quo: Did Trump Help Kill Anti-Corruption Probe in Guatemala to Aid Reelection Bid?

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : This is Democracy Now !
, democracynow.org , The Quarantine Report .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
“ How Donald Trump took down the Robert Mueller of Latin America.
” That ’ s the headline of a new investigation by Reveal at The Center for Investigative Reporting and in The Daily Beast that looks at how the Trump administration aided Guatemala ’ s right-wing government to kill a powerful anti-corruption commission .
The story centers on Iván Velásquez , a Colombian @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Impunity in Guatemala , known as CICIG , from 2013 to ’ 19 .
A leading backer of the commission in the United States was former Vice President Joe Biden .
After leaving office , Biden wrote , quote , “ I made it clear that U.S. funding for Guatemala hinged on CICIG being allowed to continue its work.
” But the Trump administration took the opposite approach and agreed to withdraw support for the commission in apparent exchange for Guatemala ’ s support of Trump ’ s immigration and Middle East policies @ @ @ @ @ @ @ embassy in Israel to Jerusalem just after the United States did .
A year later , Guatemala ’ s then-president , the former comedian Jimmy Morales , agreed to make Guatemala a “ safe third country , ” quote-unquote , for migrants seeking asylum in the U.S .
The agreement requires asylum seekers who journey through Guatemala en route to the United States to apply for asylum in Guatemala instead of at the U.S.-Mexico border .
On August 31st , 2018 , Guatemalan President Morales announced he was shutting down the anti-corruption commission @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , his son and his family .
Morales was flanked by 50 military officers .
Soon tanks and jeeps with mounted artillery , provided by the United States , circled around the office of the commission .
Reporters Aaron Glantz and Anayansi Diaz-Cortes write , quote , “ All of this shook Guatemalan society to the bone — a dark reminder of the civil war and military rule , ” unquote .
Before it was disbanded , CICIG have prosecuted over 100 cases , including one against former Guatemalan President Otto Pérez Molina @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 2015 after months of massive protests and remains in jail .
Well , Aaron Glantz and Anayansi Diaz-Cortes both join us to talk about their reporting for Reveal and the report in The Daily Beast .
Aaron , why don ’ t you talk about the significance of releasing this now ?
I mean , this is a story that involves President Trump , that involves Vice President Pence , that involves Sheldon Adelson , the big Republican donor , in connections to Israel , that involves Colombia itself .
Iván Velásquez is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was attempting to do this work in Guatemala .
AARON GLANTZ : Iván Velásquez , who is the person who blew the whistle to us , had taken down presidents and paramilitaries in Guatemala and in Colombia .
And he was known as the Robert Mueller of Latin America .
He was brought to Guatemala in 2013 — as you mentioned , he had the strong support of Vice President Joe Biden — with the idea that if tens of thousands of unaccompanied minors are arriving at the U.S. border every year , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ interest to improve conditions in Guatemala by lessening the amount of corruption and impunity in that country .
And so , as you mentioned , Iván Velásquez , shortly after he arrives in Guatemala , he throws the president , Otto Pérez Molina , a former member of the ruling military junta from earlier , in prison for running a customs ring at the airport , his involvement in that .
But , as you mentioned , then Donald Trump comes in office .
And we see an entirely different dynamic take place @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , Donald Trump and Jimmy Morales , both with a documented history of racism , band together to kill this anti-corruption force and save themselves .
AMY GOODMAN : I wanted to go to Iván Velásquez himself , the head of CICIG , talking about what happened .
AMY GOODMAN : So , I want to go to March 2018 , when then-U.S .
Ambassador to the U.N. Nikki Haley spoke to AIPAC , the policy conference in Washington , D.C. , and thanked Guatemala for supporting the Trump administration ’ s decision @ @ @ @ @ @ @ capital .
AMY GOODMAN : So , Anayansi Diaz-Cortes , if you could talk more about this ?
Then you have Sheldon Adelson chartering a private plane for Morales and the leadership of Guatemala to go to Jerusalem , when the U.S. was recognizing their moved embassy to Jerusalem .
How this is all a part of this story ?
ANAYANSI DIAZ-CORTES : Well , I think the important thing to remember , Amy , is that this commission was basically set up to do kind of the hard labor , the boring @ @ @ @ @ @ @ decades of civil war and U.S. involvement in supporting military dictatorships here .
So , you know , when we look at Biden ’ s support of the CICIG and the contrast to what begins to happen once Velásquez starts going after Jimmy Morales for corruption , then you see lobbying on the part of , you know , Guatemala sending signals to the U.S. to then support the United States in moving the Guatemalan Embassy to Jerusalem as a way to tell Trump , “ I understand your suffering .
You have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , “ You have Robert Mueller in the United States .
I have Iván Velásquez here .
Get the CICIG out of my hair , in exchange for a pliant immigration policy in Guatemala.
” And we see how that timeline takes place , first with Nikki Haley visiting Guatemala and telling Iván Velásquez , “ Tone it down .
Stop it with the ' I heart CICIG ' bumper stickers .
Don ’ t hold press conferences.
” And then , kind of days later , she is at AIPAC — with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ announcing this , and that leads to a slow demise , over the year , of the CICIG .
It ’ s also important to just acknowledge that in order for CICIG to work , CICIG can make recommendations based on what they believe should happen , but really it is the attorney general and the Guatemalan Congress who implement these recommendations .
So , at some point , Morales , you know , Thelma Aldana , who was the attorney general then , and Velásquez were a dream team .
They were @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that Velásquez goes under Morales ’ s family , that then changes , right ?
Morales refuses to stand before a judge , and Velásquez doesn ’ t back down .
AMY GOODMAN : And Thelma Aldana — people can go to our website at democracynow.org to see our interview with the former Guatemalan attorney general , who then Morales goes after and indicts .
And this weekend , Interpol said they ’ re not going to honor any arrest warrant for her .
ANAYANSI DIAZ-CORTES : That ’ s correct , Amy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ don ’ t get into that story in our radio story because there ’ s so much to get into , but her leaving Guatemala was like a key moment , where suddenly you have the attorney general that Velásquez was working so closely with is no more , as well .
So , he ’ s slowly isolated .
And once the U.S. support is taken away , well , CICIG is basically left not only without teeth , but without substance .
AMY GOODMAN : So , if you can wrap @ @ @ @ @ @ @ talk about what came of this , what this means that you had Morales surrounded by military tanks , a number provided by the United States , announcing CICIG was being dissolved and Iván Velásquez was being thrown out ?
AARON GLANTZ : Well , as you said in your intro and we say in our piece , it was a dark reminder of the days when Guatemala had previously been ruled by U.S.-backed military juntas .
And the whole purpose of this international anti-corruption force was to help turn the page and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And that was visually — you know , all those military members , the U.S.-provided military vehicles in the streets sent a clear message .
When Velásquez leaves the country to attend U.N. meetings in the U.S. , he tries to get back in , they won ’ t let him in .
And they send his belongings to Colombia , which is where he ’ s from , and it ’ s where Anayansi and I went earlier this year to interview him and get his story .
AMY GOODMAN : Well @ @ @ @ @ @ @ much for being with us .
We ’ re going to link to your story in The Daily Beast at democracynow.org , Aaron Glantz and Anayansi Diaz-Cortes with Reveal from The Center for Investigative Reporting , the piece called “ How Donald Trump took down the Robert Mueller of Latin America.
” And that does it for our show .
Democracy Now !
is produced with Mike Burke , Renée Feltz , Deena Guzder , Libby Rainey , Nermeen Shaikh , María Taracena .
I ’ m Amy Goodman .
Thanks so much @ @ @ @ @ @ @

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman. “How Donald Trump took down the Robert Mueller of Latin America.” That’s the headline of a new investigation by Reveal at The Center for Investigative Reporting and in The Daily Beast that looks at how the Trump administration aided Guatemala’s right-wing government to kill a powerful anti-corruption commission.
The story centers on Iván Velásquez, a Colombian prosecutor who headed the International Commission Against Impunity in Guatemala, known as CICIG, from 2013 to ’19. A leading backer of the commission in the United States was former Vice President Joe Biden. After leaving office, Biden wrote, quote, “I made it clear that U.S. funding for Guatemala hinged on CICIG being allowed to continue its work.”
But the Trump administration took the opposite approach and agreed to withdraw support for the commission in apparent exchange for Guatemala’s support of Trump’s immigration and Middle East policies. In 2018, Guatemala moved its embassy in Israel to Jerusalem just after the United States did. A year later, Guatemala’s then-president, the former comedian Jimmy Morales, agreed to make Guatemala a “safe third country,” quote-unquote, for migrants seeking asylum in the U.S. The agreement requires asylum seekers who journey through Guatemala en route to the United States to apply for asylum in Guatemala instead of at the U.S.-Mexico border.
On August 31st, 2018, Guatemalan President Morales announced he was shutting down the anti-corruption commission, which had begun investigating Morales himself, his son and his family. Morales was flanked by 50 military officers. Soon tanks and jeeps with mounted artillery, provided by the United States, circled around the office of the commission.
Reporters Aaron Glantz and Anayansi Diaz-Cortes write, quote, “All of this shook Guatemalan society to the bone — a dark reminder of the civil war and military rule,” unquote. Before it was disbanded, CICIG have prosecuted over 100 cases, including one against former Guatemalan President Otto Pérez Molina, who was forced to resign in 2015 after months of massive protests and remains in jail.
Well, Aaron Glantz and Anayansi Diaz-Cortes both join us to talk about their reporting for Reveal and the report in The Daily Beast.
Aaron, why don’t you talk about the significance of releasing this now? I mean, this is a story that involves President Trump, that involves Vice President Pence, that involves Sheldon Adelson, the big Republican donor, in connections to Israel, that involves Colombia itself. Iván Velásquez is a crusading human rights prosecutor, who was attempting to do this work in Guatemala.
AARON GLANTZ: Iván Velásquez, who is the person who blew the whistle to us, had taken down presidents and paramilitaries in Guatemala and in Colombia. And he was known as the Robert Mueller of Latin America. He was brought to Guatemala in 2013 — as you mentioned, he had the strong support of Vice President Joe Biden — with the idea that if tens of thousands of unaccompanied minors are arriving at the U.S. border every year, that it’s in the U.S. interest to improve conditions in Guatemala by lessening the amount of corruption and impunity in that country. And so, as you mentioned, Iván Velásquez, shortly after he arrives in Guatemala, he throws the president, Otto Pérez Molina, a former member of the ruling military junta from earlier, in prison for running a customs ring at the airport, his involvement in that.
But, as you mentioned, then Donald Trump comes in office. And we see an entirely different dynamic take place, where these two former television stars, Donald Trump and Jimmy Morales, both with a documented history of racism, band together to kill this anti-corruption force and save themselves.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go to Iván Velásquez himself, the head of CICIG, talking about what happened.
IVÁN VELÁSQUEZ: [translated] President Jimmy Morales tells President Trump, “I understand what you’re going through. You are being persecuted by Robert Mueller in the States. I am being persecuted by Iván Velásquez in Guatemala. I know how much you’ve suffered through all this.” When Ambassador Nikki Haley visits Guatemala, it is an explicit show of support for Morales. She has a series of complaints for me: stop doing press conferences, anonymity. That is what is expected of my role at CICIG. It’s a transaction where both parties seem to win something: You help us by ending this persecution unleashed by the CICIG, and we will help you. And how do you shut down CICIG? By cutting the funds. And that is exactly what happened.
AMY GOODMAN: So, I want to go to March 2018, when then-U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Nikki Haley spoke to AIPAC, the policy conference in Washington, D.C., and thanked Guatemala for supporting the Trump administration’s decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.
NIKKI HALEY: Last week I took a trip to Guatemala and Honduras. And I thanked them both for voting with us. God bless Guatemala. They’ve even joined us in moving their embassy to Jerusalem.
AMY GOODMAN: So, Anayansi Diaz-Cortes, if you could talk more about this? Then you have Sheldon Adelson chartering a private plane for Morales and the leadership of Guatemala to go to Jerusalem, when the U.S. was recognizing their moved embassy to Jerusalem. How this is all a part of this story?
ANAYANSI DIAZ-CORTES: Well, I think the important thing to remember, Amy, is that this commission was basically set up to do kind of the hard labor, the boring labor, of institution building, after decades of civil war and U.S. involvement in supporting military dictatorships here.
So, you know, when we look at Biden’s support of the CICIG and the contrast to what begins to happen once Velásquez starts going after Jimmy Morales for corruption, then you see lobbying on the part of, you know, Guatemala sending signals to the U.S. to then support the United States in moving the Guatemalan Embassy to Jerusalem as a way to tell Trump, “I understand your suffering. You have Robert Mueller” — like he said, “You have Robert Mueller in the United States. I have Iván Velásquez here. Get the CICIG out of my hair, in exchange for a pliant immigration policy in Guatemala.”
And we see how that timeline takes place, first with Nikki Haley visiting Guatemala and telling Iván Velásquez, “Tone it down. Stop it with the 'I heart CICIG' bumper stickers. Don’t hold press conferences.” And then, kind of days later, she is at AIPAC — with Jimmy Morales there, as well — announcing this, and that leads to a slow demise, over the year, of the CICIG.
It’s also important to just acknowledge that in order for CICIG to work, CICIG can make recommendations based on what they believe should happen, but really it is the attorney general and the Guatemalan Congress who implement these recommendations. So, at some point, Morales, you know, Thelma Aldana, who was the attorney general then, and Velásquez were a dream team. They were kind of working together. The moment that Velásquez goes under Morales’s family, that then changes, right? Morales refuses to stand before a judge, and Velásquez doesn’t back down.
AMY GOODMAN: And Thelma Aldana — people can go to our website at democracynow.org to see our interview with the former Guatemalan attorney general, who then Morales goes after and indicts. And this weekend, Interpol said they’re not going to honor any arrest warrant for her.
ANAYANSI DIAZ-CORTES: That’s correct, Amy. That is correct. And we don’t get into that story in our radio story because there’s so much to get into, but her leaving Guatemala was like a key moment, where suddenly you have the attorney general that Velásquez was working so closely with is no more, as well. So, he’s slowly isolated. And once the U.S. support is taken away, well, CICIG is basically left not only without teeth, but without substance.
AMY GOODMAN: So, if you can wrap this up, Aaron Glantz, and talk about what came of this, what this means that you had Morales surrounded by military tanks, a number provided by the United States, announcing CICIG was being dissolved and Iván Velásquez was being thrown out?
AARON GLANTZ: Well, as you said in your intro and we say in our piece, it was a dark reminder of the days when Guatemala had previously been ruled by U.S.-backed military juntas. And the whole purpose of this international anti-corruption force was to help turn the page and move towards a more just society.
And that was visually — you know, all those military members, the U.S.-provided military vehicles in the streets sent a clear message. When Velásquez leaves the country to attend U.N. meetings in the U.S., he tries to get back in, they won’t let him in. And they send his belongings to Colombia, which is where he’s from, and it’s where Anayansi and I went earlier this year to interview him and get his story.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, we want to thank you so much for being with us. We’re going to link to your story in The Daily Beast at democracynow.org, Aaron Glantz and Anayansi Diaz-Cortes with Reveal from The Center for Investigative Reporting, the piece called “How Donald Trump took down the Robert Mueller of Latin America.”
And that does it for our show. Democracy Now! is produced with Mike Burke, Renée Feltz, Deena Guzder, Libby Rainey, Nermeen Shaikh, María Taracena. I’m Amy Goodman. Thanks so much for joining us. Stay safe.


democracynow--2020-09-08--"Loss of the Entire Community": 6 Months Later, Trauma of Breonna Taylor's Killing Remains

This is a rush transcript .
Copy may not be in its final form .
AMY GOODMAN : Now you have , most recently , prosecutors reportedly offering Breonna Taylor ’ s ex-boyfriend a plea deal if he names Breonna as a member of an alleged organized crime syndicate in return for leniency on drug charges .
This is Jamarcus Glover , who turned down the plea deal .
Prosecutors now deny naming Breonna as a co-defendant in his case .
He was facing something like 10 years , and he would get out .
YORUBA RICHEN : Yeah .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ to find .
I think what Tom Wine — and he ’ s the prosecutor — has said that it was — there ’ s no denying that there was written up this offer .
I think he said it was a draft of an offer or something .
I ’ m not exactly sure .
But yes , there was this offer to Jamarcus , in some form , about naming Breonna Taylor as a co-conspirator .
And I just want to point out , Amy , I really think it ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , no drugs or money were found in her apartment , even though the police say that they stopped the search because of the events of that night .
But as I say in the film , they could have done the search days later , if that ’ s the whole reason these whole events came to be , because they thought drugs or money were in the apartment .
And then , even further than that , even if there were drugs or money in the apartment , which there weren @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ re supposed to be a democracy where you have a fair trial .
Are African American citizens not deserved of a fair trial , of an indictment and a fair trial , if that ’ s the case ?
You don ’ t go in and — the police can ’ t be judge , jury and executioner .
You know ?
And so , we have to always come back to that guilty or innocent .
And this woman was innocent .
But guilty or innocent , people deserve a fair @ @ @ @ @ @ @ way we go about — we should be going about prosecuting supposed crimes .
AMY GOODMAN : Finally , Yoruba , you mentioned you were going to say it looks like , in the last days , there may have been police bodycam footage .
That ’ s number one .
And also , what was it like for you , as an African American woman , as a filmmaker , to go to Louisville to do this documentary , to , sadly , not meet Breonna herself , but meet her through @ @ @ @ @ @ @ out her story , to learn about her as a human being ?
YORUBA RICHEN : Well , I ’ ll take that on first , because the thing that I felt when I started , when I went to Louisville and started talking with her friends and her family and Kenny , and seeing the city and what the city — how the city was in this uprising around her killing , I felt the trauma .
I personally felt the trauma that we endure as African American people when we hear @ @ @ @ @ @ @ killing — which , by the way , we also know is nothing new .
It ’ s happened for generations and generations and generations .
And it ’ s a trauma that we have in our community , that I saw in her community , and that we have as a people .
And that is really what — one of the things that I want people to understand when they watch this film , that these are traumatic events that affect not just the — it ’ s not just the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s the loss of the best friend .
It ’ s the loss of the mentor to her 2-year-old goddaughter .
It ’ s the loss of her and Kenny ’ s future .
It ’ s not just one person dying .
It has reverberations throughout — not one person being killed by the cops and the officers , who we pay to protect , but it ’ s the loss — who we pay to protect and serve us , but it ’ s a loss of the entire community @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that there is footage actually ?
YORUBA RICHEN : And , yes , so , there — because the narcotics unit , which were the first officers on the scene to enact the — to execute the warrants , they were — because of a policy passed in 2015 , they don ’ t have to wear bodycam footage .
But there were so many — I mean , body cameras .
There were all these other officers there , and as we see in this picture , that some of them were @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of this has been released .
No , none of this has been released .
The LMPD has released nothing .
AMY GOODMAN : And the protesters are facing off against the very police department that they are protesting .
YORUBA RICHEN : Absolutely .
And you really see — what I saw there , too , and you see it in the subsequent protests — the militarization of the LMPD and of so many police departments across the country .
You know , for the most part , these protests were peaceful @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
And you would see these heavily militarized police , which only antagonize the situation , coming and confronting these protesters .
And again , this is something that we ’ re seeing all over the country .
AMY GOODMAN : Well , I want to thank you so much , Yoruba , Yoruba Richen , director and producer of The New York Times Presents : The Killing of Breonna Taylor , now streaming on Hulu .
She is the director of the documentary program at the Graduate School of Journalism at CUNY @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Thank you for joining us , Yoruba , and congratulations on this film .
AMY GOODMAN : When we come back , “ How Donald Trump Helped Kneecap the Robert Mueller of Latin America.
” We ’ ll look at how the Trump administration helped kill off a powerful anti-corruption commission in Guatemala in exchange for Guatemala ’ s supports of Trump ’ s policies on immigration and in the Middle East .
Stay with us .

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: Now you have, most recently, prosecutors reportedly offering Breonna Taylor’s ex-boyfriend a plea deal if he names Breonna as a member of an alleged organized crime syndicate in return for leniency on drug charges. This is Jamarcus Glover, who turned down the plea deal. Prosecutors now deny naming Breonna as a co-defendant in his case. He was facing something like 10 years, and he would get out.
YORUBA RICHEN: Yeah. I mean, that was pretty shocking to find. I think what Tom Wine — and he’s the prosecutor — has said that it was — there’s no denying that there was written up this offer. I think he said it was a draft of an offer or something. I’m not exactly sure. But yes, there was this offer to Jamarcus, in some form, about naming Breonna Taylor as a co-conspirator.
And I just want to point out, Amy, I really think it’s important to emphasize that, A, no drugs or money were found in her apartment, even though the police say that they stopped the search because of the events of that night. But as I say in the film, they could have done the search days later, if that’s the whole reason these whole events came to be, because they thought drugs or money were in the apartment.
And then, even further than that, even if there were drugs or money in the apartment, which there weren’t, people deserve — we’re supposed to be a democracy where you have a fair trial. Are African American citizens not deserved of a fair trial, of an indictment and a fair trial, if that’s the case? You don’t go in and — the police can’t be judge, jury and executioner. You know? And so, we have to always come back to that guilty or innocent. And this woman was innocent. But guilty or innocent, people deserve a fair trial. And this is not the way we go about — we should be going about prosecuting supposed crimes.
AMY GOODMAN: Finally, Yoruba, you mentioned you were going to say it looks like, in the last days, there may have been police bodycam footage. That’s number one. And also, what was it like for you, as an African American woman, as a filmmaker, to go to Louisville to do this documentary, to, sadly, not meet Breonna herself, but meet her through the memories of others, to flesh out her story, to learn about her as a human being?
YORUBA RICHEN: Well, I’ll take that on first, because the thing that I felt when I started, when I went to Louisville and started talking with her friends and her family and Kenny, and seeing the city and what the city — how the city was in this uprising around her killing, I felt the trauma. I personally felt the trauma that we endure as African American people when we hear and see another killing, another police killing — which, by the way, we also know is nothing new. It’s happened for generations and generations and generations. And it’s a trauma that we have in our community, that I saw in her community, and that we have as a people.
And that is really what — one of the things that I want people to understand when they watch this film, that these are traumatic events that affect not just the — it’s not just the loss of one young woman, it’s the loss of the best friend. It’s the loss of the mentor to her 2-year-old goddaughter. It’s the loss of her and Kenny’s future. It’s not just one person dying. It has reverberations throughout — not one person being killed by the cops and the officers, who we pay to protect, but it’s the loss — who we pay to protect and serve us, but it’s a loss of the entire community.
AMY GOODMAN: And the idea that there is footage actually?
YORUBA RICHEN: And, yes, so, there — because the narcotics unit, which were the first officers on the scene to enact the — to execute the warrants, they were — because of a policy passed in 2015, they don’t have to wear bodycam footage. But there were so many — I mean, body cameras. There were all these other officers there, and as we see in this picture, that some of them were wearing bodycams. But again, none of this has been released. No, none of this has been released. The LMPD has released nothing.
AMY GOODMAN: And the protesters are facing off against the very police department that they are protesting.
YORUBA RICHEN: Absolutely. And you really see — what I saw there, too, and you see it in the subsequent protests — the militarization of the LMPD and of so many police departments across the country. You know, for the most part, these protests were peaceful, and they would be every night. And you would see these heavily militarized police, which only antagonize the situation, coming and confronting these protesters. And again, this is something that we’re seeing all over the country.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you so much, Yoruba, Yoruba Richen, director and producer of The New York Times Presents: The Killing of Breonna Taylor, now streaming on Hulu. She is the director of the documentary program at the Graduate School of Journalism at CUNY and a former Democracy Now! producer. Thank you for joining us, Yoruba, and congratulations on this film.
YORUBA RICHEN: Thank you, Amy.
AMY GOODMAN: When we come back, “How Donald Trump Helped Kneecap the Robert Mueller of Latin America.” We’ll look at how the Trump administration helped kill off a powerful anti-corruption commission in Guatemala in exchange for Guatemala’s supports of Trump’s policies on immigration and in the Middle East. Stay with us.