vox--2020-06-24--The new rules of sex — in the pandemic

The new rules of sex — in the pandemic

Part of the Romance Issue of The Highlight , our home for ambitious stories that explain our world .
The coronavirus pandemic will change the way we live for many more months , if not years .
Concerts now seem like potential hot zones .
Gyms and restaurants are cutting capacity in order to operate .
No one ’ s rushing to go back to their open-plan offices anytime soon .
We may also have to rethink everything about the way we have sex — maybe wearing a mask or maybe with the aid of a partition , should we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Health officials say refraining from in-person , human-to-human contact — abstinence , as many of us remember from sex-ed — is the only sure-fire way to cut the risk of transmitting Covid-19 .
Each person we come into contact with raises that risk , and it ’ s still too early to tell what antibodies mean in terms of reinfection .
But , in this case , when one door closes , another kinkier one may open .
New York City ’ s health officials , in their new “ safer sex ” @ @ @ @ @ @ @ glory holes , masks , and sexual positions in which partners aren ’ t facing one another .
How blunt and saucy these kinds of directives are vary by state or city : Oregon has a cute emoji-laden infographic , while Austin Public Health ’ s advice , contrary to the city ’ s “ Keep Austin Weird ” motto , is pretty straightforward and demonstrably not weird .
Either way , “ Have all kinds of sex except in all the prudish ways you were taught , ” is what officials seem @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are cocking their eyebrows and double-checking the bullet points to make sure the blush-inducing decrees aren ’ t a typographical error or the work of a hacker .
But the recommendations are real , sex-positive , and for our own good .
The coronavirus spreads through respiratory droplets and close contact , making partner-facing sex and kissing risky .
Sex with people you don ’ t live with , one-night stands , and friends with benefits all heighten that risk .
And while it was relatively easy to not see anyone during the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ rules were in effect , it seems less and less feasible as months go by and the cravings for human intimacy kick in .
So , how do we balance the urge for sex and our care for our own health ?
Should our feelings about sex change ?
Do our habits change , too ?
Are leg-cramp-inducing positions and stuffing genitalia through wooden holes really our sexual future ?
Vox asked a few experts — doctors , epidemiologists , sex therapists , sex workers — about what they ’ ve seen during @ @ @ @ @ @ @ future of sex and dating will be .
Their answers , edited for length and clarity , are below .
Research fellow at the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University and author of Tell Me What You Want Our research on how this pandemic is affecting people ’ s intimate lives reveals that some people are less sexually active than usual right now , others are reporting no changes in behavior , and some are actually more active than they were before and are pursuing new partners .
There are a lot of reasons @ @ @ @ @ @ @ but it does seem to stem , at least in part , from the fact that not everyone has the same level of concern about contracting Covid-19 .
What this means for the future is that we ’ re going to see a wide range of reactions as we come out of lockdown .
For those with low levels of concern , we ’ re likely to see them going about their intimate lives as usual , with some perhaps even becoming more sexually active for a while in order to make up @ @ @ @ @ @ @ silver lining to this pandemic is that it does seem to be increasing sexual communication overall ” For those with higher levels of concern , however , sex — and casual sex in particular — may well become a totally different ballgame .
They may view sex as particularly risky for their health and , therefore , abstain for a while or perhaps approach it more cautiously , such as by having more extensive conversations beforehand regarding health status and symptoms and/or becoming more selective about their partners .
Covid-19 may become a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ one of the things we see in our research is that the more stressed people are about the pandemic , the less desire they report for sex at all .
There ’ s also a delicate balancing act to follow when it comes to how we think about Covid-19 and how we think about sex .
We need to be careful when it comes to heaping even more stigma on sex because there ’ s already so much shame as it is — and the effects of sexual shame are not good .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ , the less likely they are to communicate about it , the more sexual problems they experience , and the less likely they are to get tested for STIs .
Long-term abstinence , especially when it ’ s not by personal choice , is something that most people find very difficult to stick to .
We need look no further than how teens respond to abstinence directives in their sex education courses : Those policies do little to curb sexual behavior , and some research has shown that abstinence-only education actually leads to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ simply saying “ Don ’ t have sex right now , ” maybe we should be encouraging people to use this time to explore their sexuality , to educate themselves about sex , and to learn more about their bodies so that when we come out of this , perhaps we ’ ll be in a position to have even better sex than we were having before .
Also , for those who don ’ t see long-term abstinence from in-person sexual activity as a viable option , there are things we can @ @ @ @ @ @ @ time , including having just one consistent partner , regularly checking in with each other about symptoms , and considering lower-risk activities , such as masturbating together .
One of the things we ’ ve seen in our data is that people who are consensually non-monogamous are adapting their relationships to fit their concerns about the pandemic by adopting various strategies to reduce risk .
For example , some are temporarily limiting physical contact to the partners they live with , while relying on virtual activities to maintain other relationships .
A potential @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it does seem to be increasing sexual communication overall .
Our participants tell us that they ’ re communicating more about risks and how to reduce them ; however , they ’ re also telling us that they ’ re having more conversations about sex and sexual desire more broadly .
To the extent that this situation gives us the prompt we need to start having more conversations about things like risk and desire , that could be a very positive development for our sex lives going forward if the trend persists .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ in town did not stop them from still doing what they wanted to do [ sexually ] .
I would hope that things would change .
I would hope that it would force folks to have more communication and be honest .
But am I 100 percent sure that it is the case ?
Not at all .
Because there were plenty of folks still on the dating apps and meeting up and having sex .
I do believe that there will be folks that see this as an extra barrier to connection @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Now , we have to worry about coronavirus as well as STIs .
But we can still be sex-positive , we can still be pleasure-positive and take care of ourselves and each other .
It is going to force folks to have more conversations and explore different ways to share pleasure .
This is where people have to be creative and continue to realize that there is not one way to have sex .
Or one way that sex looks .
“ I know the sluts in my life are already brainstorming what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ like during all of this ” Folks are already getting frustrated and acting on their desires .
I hope that people are being safe , and if they are going to go out and fornicate use whatever precautions that they can : dental dams , different positions , condoms , communication — all these things may help .
But intimacy does not have to be in person .
We have a tool that most of us use every single day : The internet .
We live in a time where dating apps exist @ @ @ @ @ @ @ really great .
Which can still allow you to see people and share intimate conversations .
For some people , there will be no change at all .
While for others , it is going to make them question themselves and others .
[ Covid-19 ] has changed so much already ; it has slowed down folks .
I know the sluts in my life are already brainstorming what being a slut is going to look like during all of this .
And what that even means anymore .
When coronavirus started spreading @ @ @ @ @ @ @ became the norm , I immediately canceled my flights and plans to film with video talent in other states .
It seemed silly at the time , when the virus was not yet that prevalent , but I felt it was irresponsible to travel when I could easily postpone my plans .
“ Maybe we can reschedule for next month ?
” they would ask .
Even while death rates continued to soar , they wanted to discuss traveling in close quarters to meet .
I was frustrated by the requests , wondering @ @ @ @ @ @ @ global pandemic would no longer be a problem in just a few short weeks .
The more these inquiries persisted , I realized that their attitude wasn ’ t about the reality of the rampant pandemic we were facing , but rather that they simply wanted something to look forward to .
They wanted the illusion of normalcy , the promises of life returning to how it was before coronavirus .
They had to imagine it as a brief interruption of plans .
I feel very privileged facing this pandemic , as I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Most of the time , my BDSM services are provided by phone , text message , or simulated by perusing my large catalog of fantasy videos .
This means that my own income was only partially impacted by this crisis , whereas others found themselves financially devastated .
Even as digital sex work was booming , I noticed a sudden influx of demands for my in-person services .
My feeling on this is that as many of their regular providers could no longer meet , they were scrambling to contact new potentials , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ enough for cash that we ’ d risk our health for a meet-up .
One of the other trends I ’ ve observed is that although in-person contact has become necessarily taboo , people seem to also fetishize the accoutrements of our social distancing measures .
Requests for performers to wear masks and gloves doubled , and even inquiries for taboo medical play began to grow .
Sexuality is powerful , and people become wired to fit that sexual energy into their lives no matter how they have to bend it to fit @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a bit with loneliness .
I live with a housemate who I am not sexual or romantic with , and have my sexual relationships more casually and infrequently .
And a lot of my sexual relief comes from my work , whether on video with co-stars or occasionally providing BDSM services to clients .
I noticed some changes in how I think about sex and romance .
I haven ’ t wanted a live-in romantic partner for years , but suddenly , I started to imagine what that would look like , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ regret every casual hook-up and playdate I ’ d declined in the last year .
I would have entertained more attempts at courtship if I had realized the opportunities would come to a self-imposed end .
Associate professor of population and family health at Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health Sex and intimacy are human needs , with the understanding that sex and engagement in sexual behaviors lie along a continuum for any population .
From my patients ’ stories , their overall lives were modified , but their sex lives remained @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the record , we had a long way to go to improve our sex positivity before the pandemic .
What we don ’ t know is how individuals are managing their risk in these circumstances .
Are they using personal screening questions , like ‘ Are you sick with Covid-19 ?
’ or ‘ Do you have a fever or cough ?
’ Some sites have structured risk management of HIV exposure by having options of disclosing HIV status .
That may be an addition to the [ dating ] apps and sites @ @ @ @ @ @ @ close contact with someone who is infected is the risk via droplet transmission .
Self-masturbation is not a risk .
With some humor intended , masturbation with someone while keeping social distance is also not a risk .
With the exception of analingus ( rimming ) , oral sex or any intercourse is not currently known to be a risk via the transmission of sexual fluids .
I don ’ t think that the pandemic will change what and how we think about romantic relationships .
Our concepts of romantic relationships were evolving @ @ @ @ @ @ @ suspect it will change concepts of infidelity .
Open relationships and the navigation of open relationships may change to some degree , though I doubt that , since HIV didn ’ t truly change the concept or navigation of open relationships .
Polyamory has had growing acceptance .
Polyamorous relationships and gatherings may adapt , just as they did in the face of HIV .
I don ’ t think monogamy will increase or change at all .
Neither do I anticipate increased responsibility .
I am not seeing anything to suggest any @ @ @ @ @ @ @ our peak .
In fact , many are seeking testing , which suggests that individuals are still engaging in sexual activity and without condoms .
I haven ’ t really asked whether they wear masks .
Until nations get a handle on [ coronavirus ] , a lot of sex work will take place online ; however , the unfortunate truth is that a great deal of it will still take place offline , as in person-to-person contact , against the suggestions of physical distancing protocol .
And before people dive straight into @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they would do well to inform themselves of the socioeconomic dynamics [ it ] has forced upon us .
In essence , this pandemic has exposed capitalism for what it is : the preservation of the white hegemony at the expense of people of color .
The miserable failings of the United States government are writ large across all walks of life , save that of the wealthy in this country .
Personally , I do not feel as if I ’ m as much at risk based on the data we have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ m more at risk each time I choose to violate physical distancing protocol .
And yes , there are times I will choose to violate physical distancing .
While I have been largely respectful of the suggestions made by medical professionals , President Trump , along with too many others , has completely botched the US response to the novel coronavirus .
This fact , as well as the disgusting response ( i.e .
show of force ) of police and the state against Black Americans and the protesters supporting us , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Our government has completely , utterly failed .
I ’ m not worried at all [ about the stigmatization of sex ] any more than it has been historically .
You ’ re not going to stop human beings from having sex , least of all gay men .
Besides , combating stigma has more or less defined my whole-ass life .
Every day at Vox , we aim to answer your most important questions and provide you , and our audience around the world , with information that has the power @ @ @ @ @ @ @ never been more vital than it is in this moment : to empower you through understanding .
Vox ’ s work is reaching more people than ever , but our distinctive brand of explanatory journalism takes resources — particularly during a pandemic and an economic downturn .
Your financial contribution will not constitute a donation , but it will enable our staff to continue to offer free articles , videos , and podcasts at the quality and volume that this moment requires .
Please consider making a contribution to Vox today .

Part of the Romance Issue of The Highlight, our home for ambitious stories that explain our world.
The coronavirus pandemic will change the way we live for many more months, if not years. Concerts now seem like potential hot zones. Gyms and restaurants are cutting capacity in order to operate. No one’s rushing to go back to their open-plan offices anytime soon.
We may also have to rethink everything about the way we have sex with people we don’t already live with, making dating more fraught than it already is. (Among the suggestions: Maybe wearing a mask or maybe doing it with the aid of a partition, should we want to do it at all). Health officials say refraining from in-person, human-to-human contact — abstinence, as many of us remember from sex-ed — is the only sure-fire way to cut the risk of transmitting Covid-19. Each person we come into contact with raises that risk, and it’s still too early to tell what antibodies mean in terms of reinfection.
But, in this case, when one door closes, another kinkier one may open.
New York City’s health officials, in their new “safer sex” directives issued this month, heartily endorsed glory holes, masks, and sexual positions in which partners aren’t facing one another. How blunt and saucy these kinds of directives are vary by state or city: Oregon has a cute emoji-laden infographic, while Austin Public Health’s advice, contrary to the city’s “Keep Austin Weird” motto, is pretty straightforward and demonstrably not weird.
Either way, “Have all kinds of sex except in all the prudish ways you were taught,” is what officials seem to be saying. And some people are cocking their eyebrows and double-checking the bullet points to make sure the blush-inducing decrees aren’t a typographical error or the work of a hacker.
But the recommendations are real, sex-positive, and for our own good. The coronavirus spreads through respiratory droplets and close contact, making partner-facing sex and kissing risky. Sex with people you don’t live with, one-night stands, and friends with benefits all heighten that risk.
And while it was relatively easy to not see anyone during the early stages of the pandemic when shelter-in-place rules were in effect, it seems less and less feasible as months go by and the cravings for human intimacy kick in.
So, how do we balance the urge for sex and our care for our own health? Should our feelings about sex change? Do our habits change, too? Are leg-cramp-inducing positions and stuffing genitalia through wooden holes really our sexual future?
Vox asked a few experts — doctors, epidemiologists, sex therapists, sex workers — about what they’ve seen during the pandemic and what they believe the future of sex and dating will be. Their answers, edited for length and clarity, are below.
Justin Lehmiller
Research fellow at the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University and author of Tell Me What You Want
Our research on how this pandemic is affecting people’s intimate lives reveals that some people are less sexually active than usual right now, others are reporting no changes in behavior, and some are actually more active than they were before and are pursuing new partners. There are a lot of reasons for this variability in sexual behavior, but it does seem to stem, at least in part, from the fact that not everyone has the same level of concern about contracting Covid-19.
What this means for the future is that we’re going to see a wide range of reactions as we come out of lockdown. For those with low levels of concern, we’re likely to see them going about their intimate lives as usual, with some perhaps even becoming more sexually active for a while in order to make up for lost time.
“A potential silver lining to this pandemic is that it does seem to be increasing sexual communication overall”
For those with higher levels of concern, however, sex — and casual sex in particular — may well become a totally different ballgame. They may view sex as particularly risky for their health and, therefore, abstain for a while or perhaps approach it more cautiously, such as by having more extensive conversations beforehand regarding health status and symptoms and/or becoming more selective about their partners.
Covid-19 may become a long-term stressor in their lives, and one of the things we see in our research is that the more stressed people are about the pandemic, the less desire they report for sex at all.
There’s also a delicate balancing act to follow when it comes to how we think about Covid-19 and how we think about sex.
We need to be careful when it comes to heaping even more stigma on sex because there’s already so much shame as it is — and the effects of sexual shame are not good. The more shame people feel about sex, the less likely they are to communicate about it, the more sexual problems they experience, and the less likely they are to get tested for STIs.
Long-term abstinence, especially when it’s not by personal choice, is something that most people find very difficult to stick to. We need look no further than how teens respond to abstinence directives in their sex education courses: Those policies do little to curb sexual behavior, and some research has shown that abstinence-only education actually leads to even riskier sexual behavior.
Rather than simply saying “Don’t have sex right now,” maybe we should be encouraging people to use this time to explore their sexuality, to educate themselves about sex, and to learn more about their bodies so that when we come out of this, perhaps we’ll be in a position to have even better sex than we were having before.
Also, for those who don’t see long-term abstinence from in-person sexual activity as a viable option, there are things we can do to encourage safer-sexual practices during this time, including having just one consistent partner, regularly checking in with each other about symptoms, and considering lower-risk activities, such as masturbating together.
One of the things we’ve seen in our data is that people who are consensually non-monogamous are adapting their relationships to fit their concerns about the pandemic by adopting various strategies to reduce risk. For example, some are temporarily limiting physical contact to the partners they live with, while relying on virtual activities to maintain other relationships.
A potential silver lining to this pandemic is that it does seem to be increasing sexual communication overall. Our participants tell us that they’re communicating more about risks and how to reduce them; however, they’re also telling us that they’re having more conversations about sex and sexual desire more broadly. To the extent that this situation gives us the prompt we need to start having more conversations about things like risk and desire, that could be a very positive development for our sex lives going forward if the trend persists.
Jimanekia Eborn
Queer media consultant, sex educator, and sexual assault and trauma expert
For some folks, ’Rona being in town did not stop them from still doing what they wanted to do [sexually]. I would hope that things would change. I would hope that it would force folks to have more communication and be honest.
But am I 100 percent sure that it is the case? Not at all. Because there were plenty of folks still on the dating apps and meeting up and having sex.
I do believe that there will be folks that see this as an extra barrier to connection, which will force more communication.
Now, we have to worry about coronavirus as well as STIs. But we can still be sex-positive, we can still be pleasure-positive and take care of ourselves and each other. It is going to force folks to have more conversations and explore different ways to share pleasure. This is where people have to be creative and continue to realize that there is not one way to have sex. Or one way that sex looks.
“I know the sluts in my life are already brainstorming what being a slut is going to look like during all of this”
Folks are already getting frustrated and acting on their desires. I hope that people are being safe, and if they are going to go out and fornicate use whatever precautions that they can: dental dams, different positions, condoms, communication — all these things may help.
But intimacy does not have to be in person. We have a tool that most of us use every single day: The internet. We live in a time where dating apps exist; video chats and cellphones are also really great. Which can still allow you to see people and share intimate conversations.
For some people, there will be no change at all. While for others, it is going to make them question themselves and others. [Covid-19] has changed so much already; it has slowed down folks. I know the sluts in my life are already brainstorming what being a slut is going to look like during all of this. And what that even means anymore.
Alice Skary
Professional dominant and model liaison for JustFor.fans
When coronavirus started spreading across the United States and social distancing became the norm, I immediately canceled my flights and plans to film with video talent in other states.
It seemed silly at the time, when the virus was not yet that prevalent, but I felt it was irresponsible to travel when I could easily postpone my plans.
“Maybe we can reschedule for next month?” they would ask. Even while death rates continued to soar, they wanted to discuss traveling in close quarters to meet. I was frustrated by the requests, wondering how they could operate as though a global pandemic would no longer be a problem in just a few short weeks.
The more these inquiries persisted, I realized that their attitude wasn’t about the reality of the rampant pandemic we were facing, but rather that they simply wanted something to look forward to. They wanted the illusion of normalcy, the promises of life returning to how it was before coronavirus. They had to imagine it as a brief interruption of plans.
I feel very privileged facing this pandemic, as I do very minimal real-time sex work. Most of the time, my BDSM services are provided by phone, text message, or simulated by perusing my large catalog of fantasy videos. This means that my own income was only partially impacted by this crisis, whereas others found themselves financially devastated.
Even as digital sex work was booming, I noticed a sudden influx of demands for my in-person services. My feeling on this is that as many of their regular providers could no longer meet, they were scrambling to contact new potentials, hoping one of us would be desperate enough for cash that we’d risk our health for a meet-up.
One of the other trends I’ve observed is that although in-person contact has become necessarily taboo, people seem to also fetishize the accoutrements of our social distancing measures. Requests for performers to wear masks and gloves doubled, and even inquiries for taboo medical play began to grow.
Sexuality is powerful, and people become wired to fit that sexual energy into their lives no matter how they have to bend it to fit current events. Even I have struggled a bit with loneliness. I live with a housemate who I am not sexual or romantic with, and have my sexual relationships more casually and infrequently. And a lot of my sexual relief comes from my work, whether on video with co-stars or occasionally providing BDSM services to clients.
I noticed some changes in how I think about sex and romance. I haven’t wanted a live-in romantic partner for years, but suddenly, I started to imagine what that would look like, and crave it. I even started to regret every casual hook-up and playdate I’d declined in the last year. I would have entertained more attempts at courtship if I had realized the opportunities would come to a self-imposed end.
David Bell
Associate professor of population and family health at Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health
Sex and intimacy are human needs, with the understanding that sex and engagement in sexual behaviors lie along a continuum for any population. From my patients’ stories, their overall lives were modified, but their sex lives remained relatively consistent for their normal.
For the record, we had a long way to go to improve our sex positivity before the pandemic. What we don’t know is how individuals are managing their risk in these circumstances. Are they using personal screening questions, like ‘Are you sick with Covid-19?’ or ‘Do you have a fever or cough?’ Some sites have structured risk management of HIV exposure by having options of disclosing HIV status. That may be an addition to the [dating] apps and sites in the future.
We know that close contact with someone who is infected is the risk via droplet transmission. Self-masturbation is not a risk. With some humor intended, masturbation with someone while keeping social distance is also not a risk. With the exception of analingus (rimming), oral sex or any intercourse is not currently known to be a risk via the transmission of sexual fluids.
I don’t think that the pandemic will change what and how we think about romantic relationships. Our concepts of romantic relationships were evolving before the pandemic. I do not suspect it will change concepts of infidelity. Open relationships and the navigation of open relationships may change to some degree, though I doubt that, since HIV didn’t truly change the concept or navigation of open relationships. Polyamory has had growing acceptance. Polyamorous relationships and gatherings may adapt, just as they did in the face of HIV.
I don’t think monogamy will increase or change at all. Neither do I anticipate increased responsibility. I am not seeing anything to suggest any differences in sexual behaviors just weeks after our peak. In fact, many are seeking testing, which suggests that individuals are still engaging in sexual activity and without condoms. I haven’t really asked whether they wear masks.
Sean Zevran
Gay porn star and activist
Until nations get a handle on [coronavirus], a lot of sex work will take place online; however, the unfortunate truth is that a great deal of it will still take place offline, as in person-to-person contact, against the suggestions of physical distancing protocol. And before people dive straight into moralizing this phenomenon within our industry, they would do well to inform themselves of the socioeconomic dynamics [it] has forced upon us.
In essence, this pandemic has exposed capitalism for what it is: the preservation of the white hegemony at the expense of people of color. The miserable failings of the United States government are writ large across all walks of life, save that of the wealthy in this country.
Personally, I do not feel as if I’m as much at risk based on the data we have thus far, albeit of course I’m more at risk each time I choose to violate physical distancing protocol. And yes, there are times I will choose to violate physical distancing.
While I have been largely respectful of the suggestions made by medical professionals, President Trump, along with too many others, has completely botched the US response to the novel coronavirus. This fact, as well as the disgusting response (i.e. show of force) of police and the state against Black Americans and the protesters supporting us, show us the social contract is broken. Our government has completely, utterly failed.
I’m not worried at all [about the stigmatization of sex] any more than it has been historically. You’re not going to stop human beings from having sex, least of all gay men. Besides, combating stigma has more or less defined my whole-ass life.
Alex Abad-Santos is a senior culture reporter for Vox.
Support Vox’s explanatory journalism


vox--2020-06-24--Best friends, a love story

Best friends, a love story

Part of the Romance Issue of The Highlight , our home for ambitious stories that explain our world .
Alanna Okun is a deputy editor at Vox .
She is the author of The Curse of the Boyfriend Sweater and the forthcoming Knit a Hat .
Aude White is a graphic artist whose work has appeared in the New York Times , New York Magazine , The Believer , and more .
Every day at Vox , we aim to answer your most important questions and provide you , and our audience around the world , with information that has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ mission has never been more vital than it is in this moment : to empower you through understanding .
Vox ’ s work is reaching more people than ever , but our distinctive brand of explanatory journalism takes resources — particularly during a pandemic and an economic downturn .
Your financial contribution will not constitute a donation , but it will enable our staff to continue to offer free articles , videos , and podcasts at the quality and volume that this moment requires .
Please consider making a contribution to Vox today @

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vox--2020-06-24--“You think about what marriage has become”: 4 couples on having virtual weddings

Part of the Romance Issue of The Highlight , our home for ambitious stories that explain our world .
For Amanda Trocola and Jason Castellente of Washington , DC , the regretful cancellation calls from wedding guests were the first clue that their April nuptials , set to take place amid the picturesque cliffs of Malibu , were in peril .
“ It was awful , ” says Mel Sulaver of New York , who was due to wed Rob Sulaver in mid-March barefoot on a Mexican beach before a small crowd of 50 guests — before they , too @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , to bow out .
As the coronavirus became a global pandemic that would halt daily life and work , separate families , and put an end to gatherings joyful and otherwise , these couples were among a sea of would-be brides and grooms forced to postpone — or reimagine — their nuptials .
They wondered whether weddings were even weddings without siblings or parents or grandparents , and , more importantly , what good it was to bring together loved ones if it also endangered them .
“ I went from crying @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to canceling the wedding.
” Jillian and Joshua Ogundele were set to marry in Savannah , Georgia , in a multi-day March affair , before calling it off , an intensely painful decision for Jillian .
“ I was too hurt to write a cancellation notice , ” she says , “ so my dad wrote it for me.
” But once the tears subsided , long days in quarantine reminded the couples of precisely whom they wanted to be stuck with for the long haul .
“ My , oh my , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ level when you ’ re spending 24 hours a day , seven days a week with anyone , ” says Trocola .
By chance , Trocola and Castellente had already lined up their marriage license ; the Ogundeles , who live in the Atlanta suburbs , had already been feted at bachelorette and bachelor parties and a bridal shower .
And for Mel Sulaver , the idea of planning an entire wedding again sounded miserable : “ There ’ s no way that I am going to go through this process again , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ other things we want to do next year.
” “ What are we waiting for ?
” they all began to wonder .
It was Jillian Ogundele who landed on the idea of a virtual wedding , an idea she got from viral posts on Facebook Live , Instagram Live , and Zoom that began from the first days of lockdown .
“ I told Josh , and he was like … ” Though he has plenty of followers on social media , “ we never imagined that our wedding was going to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ about this stuff , ” says Rob Sulaver .
But on the morning of their wedding , Rob , a founding member of the boutique boxing gym Rumble , taught a workout on Instagram Live that was viewed by thousands — and let slip that he would be married later that day .
When they aired their wedding for friends and family that evening , not only were exercise enthusiasts watching , he says , but also “ random people who ended up finding the broadcast , and watching and commenting on it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ asked photographer Adam Mason , a friend who runs Mason Photography , to attend in person and capture their moment ; he “ popped on a long lens ” to maintain social distancing and self-quarantined for two weeks , then helped set up the Zoom .
“ It was a lot fewer hugs and handshakes ” than he ’ s used to , Mason says .
With quarantine weddings come snags , naturally .
Parents had to be taught to how to use Instagram and Zoom .
The wedding photos , so often @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , are largely empty , or simply blurry shots of computer screens .
Glamorous white wedding dresses , stuck in purgatory with locked-down tailors , or safely stored by quarantining mothers of the bride , had to be replaced with online finds .
Trocola ordered a simple cream-colored , lace replacement dress and hoped for the best .
Mel Sulaver had to don the fairy-like sparkly nude-colored gown she ’ d set aside for the night before her wedding .
Jillian Ogundele doesn ’ t even usually wear makeup , so her friends @ @ @ @ @ @ @ look .
“ I wouldn ’ t consider myself at my wedding-day best , ” she says now , “ but we got it done.
” Sean Bouvier , who wed his longtime love , David , in a ceremony in their Astoria , New York , apartment , was luckier : “ Our outfits were here — two matching suits , ” he says .
They also managed to land a wedding license with New York ’ s “ Project Cupid ” online licensing system , launched in May to help couples @ @ @ @ @ @ @ currently , the wait for documents is estimated to be months .
But their rings were still being made by Cartier when New York Gov .
Andrew Cuomo ordered businesses to close .
In the end , a kindly employee stepped up to help the couple , and the rings arrived by mail in time for their big day .
Friends , too , dispatched deliveries : flowers , meals , “ bottles and bottles of Veuve Clicquot , ” much to Bouvier ’ s joy .
Maybe it was too many bottles @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on their wedding day that they threatened to interrupt the ceremony , Bouvier says .
“ We left a note on the door : ‘ Don ’ t ring the bell.
’ ” Across the East River , Mel Sulaver walked down an “ aisle ” from the bedroom to the living room of their Manhattan apartment .
Rob read his vows in verse .
“ It felt like we were getting married , ” she says , “ and that ’ s what you want.
” It felt very real for Joshua @ @ @ @ @ @ @ his very , very cold feet .
“ I went through the emotions I would have had .
At one point , I deleted half my vows , ” he says .
“ I actually did have a breakdown.
” But he says , “ Jill , she was like ‘ Get it together .
We have goals here .
I ’ m not buying into what you have got going on.
’ ” In the end , there were no dessert spreads , no open bars , no sweetheart tables , no @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ( Though Joshua Ogundele scored some laughs from the “ crowd ” when he spilled champagne , slipped on it , and tumbled to the floor on his own wedding day . )
“ I wouldn ’ t trade it for the world , ” says Sean Bouvier , whose ceremony paid a nod to the five-year anniversary of the legalization of same-sex marriage .
“ It was super intimate .
It ’ s a joyous moment in a negative time.
” “ You think about what marriage has become , ” says @ @ @ @ @ @ @ series of negotiations over guests and budgets rather than a pure display of love .
A quarantine wedding , adds Rob Sulaver , “ strips away a lot of the other things that traditionally go along with weddings .
It sort of boiled it down to what was most meaningful to us.
” For Trocola , that sense of having to please no one but themselves and a handful of guests transformed every aspect of their nuptials .
“ We were able to write these really vulnerable and intimate vows knowing we weren @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , ” she says .
After the ceremony , Castellente and Trocola turned off the camera and slipped outside to their backyard .
Castellente hit play on Johnnyswim ’ s “ Take the World ” on his cellphone , stuck it in the pocket of his suit , and reached for his bride .
A few raindrops shook from the trees as they danced their first dance .
Castellente chokes up slightly when recalling it .
“ It was like the world stopped around us.
” Lavanya Ramanathan is the editor of The @ @ @ @ @ @ @ features reporter for the Washington Post .

Part of the Romance Issue of The Highlight, our home for ambitious stories that explain our world.
For Amanda Trocola and Jason Castellente of Washington, DC, the regretful cancellation calls from wedding guests were the first clue that their April nuptials, set to take place amid the picturesque cliffs of Malibu, were in peril.
“It was awful,” says Mel Sulaver of New York, who was due to wed Rob Sulaver in mid-March barefoot on a Mexican beach before a small crowd of 50 guests — before they, too, started calling, one by one, to bow out.
As the coronavirus became a global pandemic that would halt daily life and work, separate families, and put an end to gatherings joyful and otherwise, these couples were among a sea of would-be brides and grooms forced to postpone — or reimagine — their nuptials. They wondered whether weddings were even weddings without siblings or parents or grandparents, and, more importantly, what good it was to bring together loved ones if it also endangered them. “I went from crying hysterically,” says Sulaver, “to canceling the wedding.”
Jillian and Joshua Ogundele were set to marry in Savannah, Georgia, in a multi-day March affair, before calling it off, an intensely painful decision for Jillian. “I was too hurt to write a cancellation notice,” she says, “so my dad wrote it for me.”
But once the tears subsided, long days in quarantine reminded the couples of precisely whom they wanted to be stuck with for the long haul. “My, oh my, [relationships] sure step up a level when you’re spending 24 hours a day, seven days a week with anyone,” says Trocola.
By chance, Trocola and Castellente had already lined up their marriage license; the Ogundeles, who live in the Atlanta suburbs, had already been feted at bachelorette and bachelor parties and a bridal shower. And for Mel Sulaver, the idea of planning an entire wedding again sounded miserable: “There’s no way that I am going to go through this process again,” she realized. “There are other things we want to do next year.”
“What are we waiting for?” they all began to wonder.
It was Jillian Ogundele who landed on the idea of a virtual wedding, an idea she got from viral posts on Facebook Live, Instagram Live, and Zoom that began from the first days of lockdown. “I told Josh, and he was like …”
“... Mm-mm,” Josh Ogundele recalls saying skeptically. “On the internet?!”
Though he has plenty of followers on social media, “we never imagined that our wedding was going to be broadcast. We’re private about this stuff,” says Rob Sulaver. But on the morning of their wedding, Rob, a founding member of the boutique boxing gym Rumble, taught a workout on Instagram Live that was viewed by thousands — and let slip that he would be married later that day. When they aired their wedding for friends and family that evening, not only were exercise enthusiasts watching, he says, but also “random people who ended up finding the broadcast, and watching and commenting on it in real time.”
Trocola and Castellente asked photographer Adam Mason, a friend who runs Mason Photography, to attend in person and capture their moment; he “popped on a long lens” to maintain social distancing and self-quarantined for two weeks, then helped set up the Zoom. “It was a lot fewer hugs and handshakes” than he’s used to, Mason says.
With quarantine weddings come snags, naturally. Parents had to be taught to how to use Instagram and Zoom. The wedding photos, so often a treasured record of the big day, are largely empty, or simply blurry shots of computer screens. Glamorous white wedding dresses, stuck in purgatory with locked-down tailors, or safely stored by quarantining mothers of the bride, had to be replaced with online finds. Trocola ordered a simple cream-colored, lace replacement dress and hoped for the best. Mel Sulaver had to don the fairy-like sparkly nude-colored gown she’d set aside for the night before her wedding. Jillian Ogundele doesn’t even usually wear makeup, so her friends FaceTimed her with tips for a bridal look. “I wouldn’t consider myself at my wedding-day best,” she says now, “but we got it done.”
Sean Bouvier, who wed his longtime love, David, in a ceremony in their Astoria, New York, apartment, was luckier: “Our outfits were here — two matching suits,” he says. They also managed to land a wedding license with New York’s “Project Cupid” online licensing system, launched in May to help couples waiting to marry during the pandemic; currently, the wait for documents is estimated to be months. But their rings were still being made by Cartier when New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo ordered businesses to close. In the end, a kindly employee stepped up to help the couple, and the rings arrived by mail in time for their big day.
Friends, too, dispatched deliveries: flowers, meals, “bottles and bottles of Veuve Clicquot,” much to Bouvier’s joy. Maybe it was too many bottles, actually — so many well-wishes arrived on their wedding day that they threatened to interrupt the ceremony, Bouvier says. “We left a note on the door: ‘Don’t ring the bell.’”
Across the East River, Mel Sulaver walked down an “aisle” from the bedroom to the living room of their Manhattan apartment. Rob read his vows in verse. “It felt like we were getting married,” she says, “and that’s what you want.”
It felt very real for Joshua Ogundele, too, right down to his very, very cold feet. “I went through the emotions I would have had. At one point, I deleted half my vows,” he says. “I actually did have a breakdown.” But he says, “Jill, she was like ‘Get it together. We have goals here. I’m not buying into what you have got going on.’ ”
In the end, there were no dessert spreads, no open bars, no sweetheart tables, no dance floors, no awkward speeches. (Though Joshua Ogundele scored some laughs from the “crowd” when he spilled champagne, slipped on it, and tumbled to the floor on his own wedding day.)
“I wouldn’t trade it for the world,” says Sean Bouvier, whose ceremony paid a nod to the five-year anniversary of the legalization of same-sex marriage. “It was super intimate. It’s a joyous moment in a negative time.”
“You think about what marriage has become,” says Mel Sulaver — characterizing it as a series of negotiations over guests and budgets rather than a pure display of love. A quarantine wedding, adds Rob Sulaver, “strips away a lot of the other things that traditionally go along with weddings. It sort of boiled it down to what was most meaningful to us.”
For Trocola, that sense of having to please no one but themselves and a handful of guests transformed every aspect of their nuptials. “We were able to write these really vulnerable and intimate vows knowing we weren’t writing them for an audience,” she says.
After the ceremony, Castellente and Trocola turned off the camera and slipped outside to their backyard. Castellente hit play on Johnnyswim’s “Take the World” on his cellphone, stuck it in the pocket of his suit, and reached for his bride. A few raindrops shook from the trees as they danced their first dance. Castellente chokes up slightly when recalling it. “It was like the world stopped around us.”
Lavanya Ramanathan is the editor of The Highlight. She’s a former features reporter for the Washington Post.


vox--2020-06-24--“It’s ideologue meets grifter”: How Bill Barr made Trumpism possible

Last Friday , Attorney General Bill Barr announced that US Attorney for the Southern District of New York , Geoffrey Berman , was “ stepping down ” from his position .
The announcement caught everyone by surprise , including Berman , who quickly denied that he had any plans to resign .
But the following day Barr announced that Trump had dismissed Berman , putting an end to the bizarre standoff ( though Trump , later in the day , claimed he was “ not involved ” in Berman ’ s firing ) .
In any other administration , the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ been conducting investigations of the president ’ s allies would be scandalous .
But this is not a typical administration and this is not a typical Department of Justice .
Under Barr , the DOJ has become a political instrument for the president .
Whether it ’ s misleading the public about the Mueller report or using tear gas to disperse peaceful protesters so that Trump could stage a photo op , or trying to fire Berman , Barr has repeatedly sacrificed the dignity of his office in order to please his boss @ @ @ @ @ @ @ much about Barr ’ s history , it ’ s hard to make sense of his behavior .
Having already served as AG under George H.W .
Bush ’ s administration , Barr had a solid reputation as a serious guy .
When he reemerged in 2018 as Trump ’ s pick for attorney general , he was widely seen as a creature of the Republican establishment , and his selection was “ greeted with a measure of relief ” within the DOJ , according to the New York Times .
But events @ @ @ @ @ @ @ more than willing accomplice in Trump ’ s slow-motion destruction of democratic norms .
Which raises the question : Why has someone like Bill Barr given himself over to an aspiring authoritarian like Trump ?
To get some answers , I reached out to David Rohde , an editor at the New Yorker who profiled Barr for the magazine back in January .
Beyond the obvious questions , I wanted to know who Barr really is and what ’ s driving his political decision-making in this moment .
As Rohde put it , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the ’ 80s ” who is “ fully committed ” to protecting Trump .
We talk about the ideology animating Barr ’ s loyalty to Trump and why there ’ s no going back for him at this point .
A lightly edited transcript of our conversation follows .
What ’ s the most important thing people should know about William Barr ?
I think the most important thing to understand is that he has one of the most extreme views of how powerful an American president should be .
What does that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not believe that we should have three co-equal branches of government .
He believes the president should be more powerful than Congress and the courts .
In his mind , that ’ s the only thing that can keep the country safe when it is threatened by war , natural disaster , or economic collapse .
He believes that is what the founders intended .
I wonder why Barr ’ s radicalism wasn ’ t reflected in the commentary when he was first nominated by Trump .
The conventional wisdom at the time @ @ @ @ @ @ @ type .
Why do you think this was missed ?
Barr has held these views consistently throughout his life .
But he was seen as a traditionalist when Trump nominated him to be attorney general .
In hindsight , it looks like the extremism of Barr ’ s views didn ’ t emerge during his first tenure as attorney general because the president he served then , George H. W. Bush , was a traditionalist .
Bush had witnessed Nixon ’ s abuses and resignation .
Bush accepted that the three branches were @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Donald Trump , obviously , is completely different .
Trump is contemptuous of post-Watergate norms and of congressional and judicial oversight .
Trump has enabled Barr to pursue his decades-long goal of increasing the power of the presidency .
And Barr has enabled Trump to stonewall congressional investigations to an extent not seen since Nixon .
It ’ s an ideologue meets grifter .
But the idea of “ checks and balances ” is literally the basis of our constitutional system .
Why does he find it so inadequate ?
He believes that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it ’ s been the presidency that has been able to intervene when we ’ ve faced war or economic calamity or natural disaster .
And Congress has dithered and the courts simply don ’ t have the mechanisms to respond .
He really believes this in his bones .
In fact , I just spoke to someone who knows him well , who works closely with him , and he told me that Barr is fully committed , that he stands by every action he ’ s taken in this administration , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to trying to fire the US attorney in Manhattan this weekend .
And this person said that Barr is doing these actions because he himself believes in empowering the presidency .
It is not because he ’ s being pressured or bullied by Trump .
Yes , he ’ s fully committed .
And if you pay attention to what he ’ s been saying for decades , nothing he ’ s doing now is all that surprising .
He ’ s been calling for tough law-and-order policies for a long time .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ was nothing new .
When the Rodney King riots erupted in the 1990s , Barr was attorney general for George H.W .
Bush .
He sent thousands of federal agents out to Los Angeles to put down the riots and saw it as a missed opportunity to crack down on gangs in Los Angeles .
He agreed to bring charges against the officers who beat Rodney King , but he complained it was a missed opportunity and federal civil rights charges should have been brought against the gangs as well .
So the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ idea of overwhelming force to bring order , is something he ’ s advocated for decades .
It ’ s not something that he ’ s mouthing for Trump .
The thing about Barr is that he ’ s sort of a quiet revolutionary , or at least that ’ s the way he comes across in your profile .
He understands how power works and he ’ s willing to methodically transform the system from within .
Very much so .
I mean , it ’ s funny watching interviews with him @ @ @ @ @ @ @ how he speaks , but what he is saying is very far right and deeply conservative across the board .
And his actions are extraordinary , at times unprecedented , for an attorney general , from dispatching National Guard troops from multiple states all over DC , to setting up a command bunker where he oversaw all of that , to removing prosecutors and pushing for lower sentences for the president ’ s allies .
He speaks carefully but his actions are anything but measured .
How important is Barr ’ s Catholicism @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I can ’ t read his mind and I can ’ t say for sure what role his faith plays , but he ’ s pretty open about what he believes and why he believes it .
He has said things in the past that showed a kind of moral conservatism .
He said , for example , that he thought crime was a result of moral failings , not poverty , at a Federalist Society symposium in the ’ 90s .
He ’ s aggressively backed tough sentences in the past and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ feels that people who are religiously observant are mocked in popular culture and that practicing one ’ s religion consistently is under assault today by liberal elites in the United States .
Barr gave a speech at Notre Dame in 2019 that most people are not aware of but it ’ s incredibly revealing .
What stands out to me isn ’ t his religiosity but his profound hostility to secular culture , which he calls “ organized destruction ” and an engine of “ moral relativism.
” He really does see himself @ @ @ @ @ @ @ religious and cultural struggle , doesn ’ t he ?
Yeah , he does .
And again , I just spoke today with someone who works closely with him .
He told me that Barr is convinced that mail-in ballots are a source of mob rule , that he ’ s worried about mob rule in the US .
He complains that tech companies , when they label the president ’ s tweets , are taking away the free press rights of conservatives .
In other words , all of these banal conservative @ @ @ @ @ @ @ — he really believes them .
He ’ s a culture warrior from the ’ 80s , but he ’ s back in the position of attorney general 40 years later and fighting the same battles .
The obsession with cultural decline is worth lingering on because it really does seem like the guiding motivation for Barr .
In that Notre Dame speech , he basically blames every “ social pathology ” ( from depression to suicide rates to violence and drug addiction ) on secularism .
Do you know what he means @ @ @ @ @ @ @ founding fathers believed that for American democracy to succeed , Americans had to be religiously observant , because religion provides a mechanism for people to control their behavior and to not abuse their power , and so those moral guideposts should come from religion , not from the government itself .
And he felt that the courts made a variety of decisions in the 1960s that produced a bunch of toxic social changes .
What does he actually want ?
Does he want a theocracy ?
No , he wants a presidential republic @ @ @ @ @ @ @ two ways : impeachment and reelection every four years .
He sees federal judges declaring Trump ’ s travel ban illegal or independent counsels like Robert Mueller investigating the president as improper infringements on presidential power by the judicial and legislative branches .
They ’ re denying the president his legitimate constitutional right to run the executive branch as he sees fit .
In a speech last fall at the Federalist Society , he said part of the reason he joined the Trump administration was to halt the weakening of the presidency that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Trump era , that judges and Democrats in Congress were setting dangerous precedents that would leave the country with a powerless president who couldn ’ t hold the country together in a crisis .
What I hear when I listen to him speak is someone who has decided that democracy is too problematic , that the culture has been hijacked , and that the only response is to exercise power from the top down .
Well , I think what Barr believes is that the Hollywood cultural elite is forcing cultural change that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ news media and Hollywood together are exaggerating the number of liberals in the country .
And I think he believes that liberals engage in the same sort of rough-and-tumble politics as Trump .
So there ’ s a sense that this is a game for power and you either win or lose .
There ’ s a fierce belief among Barr and other administration officials that whatever Trump ’ s problems and behavioral issues , and there are lots of them , they still believe Trump is delivering on a conservative agenda .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ basically replied , “ Of course we support this president and of course we ’ re going to continue working for him.
” And what decisions or what changes is Barr reacting against ?
He cites Roe v. Wade as the primary example .
And he blames a wide variety of social problems , from children born out of wedlock to drug addiction , on what he claims is an unremitting assault on religion and traditional values by militant secularists .
Barr has this reputation as a very shrewd operator but it does @ @ @ @ @ @ @ room lately .
Clearing protesters from Lafayette Square and the attempt to remove Berman , the US attorney in New York , were both off politically .
Barr mishandled them .
I think that how Trump has responded to the pandemic and the George Floyd demonstrations gives me the sense that both Trump and Barr are off their game .
The fact that Trump and Barr lost two major Supreme Court decisions last week , that Berman so openly defied Barr ’ s order to resign , shows that their political capital could @ @ @ @ @ @ @ an argument that Trump and Barr are just out of touch with the sentiment of this country right now .
As I was saying earlier , Barr is still mouthing the same “ law and order ” talking points you heard in the ’ 80s .
And even in interviews now , Barr will acknowledge that racism exists but he rejects the idea that there ’ s systemic racism in this country .
He clearly doesn ’ t feel the sense of urgency that so many Americans feel .
For better or worse @ @ @ @ @ @ @ last stand , right ?
There ’ s no going back at this point .
He ’ s all in .
Again , the person I spoke to who ’ s close to Barr says he really believes what he ’ s doing is right .
And friends of Barr have told me that none of these views are new .
And he has nothing to lose .
He ’ s had a long , successful career .
Nothing is more important to him than this right now .
And I was told @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the November election and the remainder of Trump ’ s term .
He is fully committed to seeing this through .
Every day at Vox , we aim to answer your most important questions and provide you , and our audience around the world , with information that has the power to save lives .
Our mission has never been more vital than it is in this moment : to empower you through understanding .
Vox ’ s work is reaching more people than ever , but our distinctive brand of explanatory journalism @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and an economic downturn .
Your financial contribution will not constitute a donation , but it will enable our staff to continue to offer free articles , videos , and podcasts at the quality and volume that this moment requires .
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On July 28, Attorney General Bill Barr appeared before the House Judiciary Committee to face questions from lawmakers over the Trump administration’s use of force in nationwide protests and his intervention in cases involving the president’s former advisers.
It was a contentious appearance. Barr defended his controversial actions and sparred with Democrats, who believe, as Rep. Jerrold Nadler (NY) put it, that he has “aided and abetted the worst failings of the president.”
The hearing was the latest turn in Barr’s tumultuous — and troubling — stint as the nation’s top law enforcement officer.
Under Barr, the Department of Justice has become a political instrument for President Trump. Whether it’s misleading the public about the Mueller report or using tear gas to disperse peaceful protesters so that Trump could stage a photo op, Barr has repeatedly sacrificed the dignity of his office in order to please his boss.
If you don’t know much about Barr’s history, it’s hard to make sense of his behavior. Having already served as AG under George H.W. Bush’s administration, Barr had a solid reputation as a serious guy. When he reemerged in 2018 as Trump’s pick for attorney general, he was widely seen as a creature of the Republican establishment, and his selection was “greeted with a measure of relief” within the DOJ, according to the New York Times.
But events since have shown him to be a more than willing accomplice in Trump’s slow-motion destruction of democratic norms. Which raises the question: Why has someone like Bill Barr given himself over to an aspiring authoritarian like Trump?
To get some answers, I reached out last month to David Rohde, an editor at the New Yorker who profiled Barr for the magazine in January. In this conversation, which originally ran in late June, I ask Rohde who Barr really is and what’s driving his political decision-making in this moment. As Rohde put it, Barr is “a culture warrior from the ’80s” who is “fully committed” to protecting Trump. We talk about the ideology animating Barr’s loyalty to Trump and why there’s no going back for him at this point.
A lightly edited transcript of our conversation follows.
Sean Illing
What’s the most important thing people should know about William Barr?
David Rohde
I think the most important thing to understand is that he has one of the most extreme views of how powerful an American president should be.
Sean Illing
What does that mean?
David Rohde
It means that he does not believe that we should have three co-equal branches of government. He believes the president should be more powerful than Congress and the courts. In his mind, that’s the only thing that can keep the country safe when it is threatened by war, natural disaster, or economic collapse. He believes that is what the founders intended.
Sean Illing
I wonder why Barr’s radicalism wasn’t reflected in the commentary when he was first nominated by Trump. The conventional wisdom at the time was that he was a banal establishment type. Why do you think this was missed?
David Rohde
Barr has held these views consistently throughout his life. But he was seen as a traditionalist when Trump nominated him to be attorney general. In hindsight, it looks like the extremism of Barr’s views didn’t emerge during his first tenure as attorney general because the president he served then, George H. W. Bush, was a traditionalist. Bush had witnessed Nixon’s abuses and resignation. Bush accepted that the three branches were co-equal.
Working as attorney general for Donald Trump, obviously, is completely different. Trump is contemptuous of post-Watergate norms and of congressional and judicial oversight. Trump has enabled Barr to pursue his decades-long goal of increasing the power of the presidency. And Barr has enabled Trump to stonewall congressional investigations to an extent not seen since Nixon. It’s an ideologue meets grifter.
Sean Illing
But the idea of “checks and balances” is literally the basis of our constitutional system. Why does he find it so inadequate?
David Rohde
He believes that if you look at American history, it’s been the presidency that has been able to intervene when we’ve faced war or economic calamity or natural disaster. And Congress has dithered and the courts simply don’t have the mechanisms to respond. He really believes this in his bones.
In fact, I just spoke to someone who knows him well, who works closely with him, and he told me that Barr is fully committed, that he stands by every action he’s taken in this administration, from clearing Lafayette Park with tear gas to trying to fire the US attorney in Manhattan this weekend. And this person said that Barr is doing these actions because he himself believes in empowering the presidency. It is not because he’s being pressured or bullied by Trump.
Sean Illing
So he’s a real ideological warrior?
David Rohde
Yes, he’s fully committed. And if you pay attention to what he’s been saying for decades, nothing he’s doing now is all that surprising. He’s been calling for tough law-and-order policies for a long time. His reaction to the demonstrations in Washington was nothing new.
When the Rodney King riots erupted in the 1990s, Barr was attorney general for George H.W. Bush. He sent thousands of federal agents out to Los Angeles to put down the riots and saw it as a missed opportunity to crack down on gangs in Los Angeles. He agreed to bring charges against the officers who beat Rodney King, but he complained it was a missed opportunity and federal civil rights charges should have been brought against the gangs as well.
So the idea of dominating the streets, the idea of overwhelming force to bring order, is something he’s advocated for decades. It’s not something that he’s mouthing for Trump.
Sean Illing
The thing about Barr is that he’s sort of a quiet revolutionary, or at least that’s the way he comes across in your profile. He understands how power works and he’s willing to methodically transform the system from within.
David Rohde
Very much so. I mean, it’s funny watching interviews with him. He’s very measured in how he speaks, but what he is saying is very far right and deeply conservative across the board. And his actions are extraordinary, at times unprecedented, for an attorney general, from dispatching National Guard troops from multiple states all over DC, to setting up a command bunker where he oversaw all of that, to removing prosecutors and pushing for lower sentences for the president’s allies. He speaks carefully but his actions are anything but measured.
Sean Illing
How important is Barr’s Catholicism to his moral and political project?
David Rohde
I can’t read his mind and I can’t say for sure what role his faith plays, but he’s pretty open about what he believes and why he believes it. He has said things in the past that showed a kind of moral conservatism. He said, for example, that he thought crime was a result of moral failings, not poverty, at a Federalist Society symposium in the ’90s. He’s aggressively backed tough sentences in the past and today for drug crimes. And he feels that people who are religiously observant are mocked in popular culture and that practicing one’s religion consistently is under assault today by liberal elites in the United States.
Sean Illing
Barr gave a speech at Notre Dame in 2019 that most people are not aware of but it’s incredibly revealing. What stands out to me isn’t his religiosity but his profound hostility to secular culture, which he calls “organized destruction” and an engine of “moral relativism.” He really does see himself on the front lines of an epic religious and cultural struggle, doesn’t he?
David Rohde
Yeah, he does. And again, I just spoke today with someone who works closely with him. He told me that Barr is convinced that mail-in ballots are a source of mob rule, that he’s worried about mob rule in the US. He complains that tech companies, when they label the president’s tweets, are taking away the free press rights of conservatives. In other words, all of these banal conservative talking points you hear all the time — he really believes them. He’s a culture warrior from the ’80s, but he’s back in the position of attorney general 40 years later and fighting the same battles.
Sean Illing
The obsession with cultural decline is worth lingering on because it really does seem like the guiding motivation for Barr. In that Notre Dame speech, he basically blames every “social pathology” (from depression to suicide rates to violence and drug addiction) on secularism.
Do you know what he means by that?
David Rohde
He argues that the founding fathers believed that for American democracy to succeed, Americans had to be religiously observant, because religion provides a mechanism for people to control their behavior and to not abuse their power, and so those moral guideposts should come from religion, not from the government itself. And he felt that the courts made a variety of decisions in the 1960s that produced a bunch of toxic social changes.
Sean Illing
What does he actually want? Does he want a theocracy?
David Rohde
No, he wants a presidential republic where the chief executive is judged in two ways: impeachment and reelection every four years. He sees federal judges declaring Trump’s travel ban illegal or independent counsels like Robert Mueller investigating the president as improper infringements on presidential power by the judicial and legislative branches. They’re denying the president his legitimate constitutional right to run the executive branch as he sees fit.
In a speech last fall at the Federalist Society, he said part of the reason he joined the Trump administration was to halt the weakening of the presidency that he felt was going on in the Trump era, that judges and Democrats in Congress were setting dangerous precedents that would leave the country with a powerless president who couldn’t hold the country together in a crisis.
Sean Illing
What I hear when I listen to him speak is someone who has decided that democracy is too problematic, that the culture has been hijacked, and that the only response is to exercise power from the top down.
David Rohde
Well, I think what Barr believes is that the Hollywood cultural elite is forcing cultural change that most Americans oppose, and that the news media and Hollywood together are exaggerating the number of liberals in the country. And I think he believes that liberals engage in the same sort of rough-and-tumble politics as Trump. So there’s a sense that this is a game for power and you either win or lose.
There’s a fierce belief among Barr and other administration officials that whatever Trump’s problems and behavioral issues, and there are lots of them, they still believe Trump is delivering on a conservative agenda. And one person close to Barr just basically replied, “Of course we support this president and of course we’re going to continue working for him.”
Sean Illing
And what decisions or what changes is Barr reacting against?
David Rohde
He cites Roe v. Wade as the primary example. And he blames a wide variety of social problems, from children born out of wedlock to drug addiction, on what he claims is an unremitting assault on religion and traditional values by militant secularists.
Sean Illing
Barr has this reputation as a very shrewd operator but it does seem like he’s misreading the room lately.
David Rohde
Clearing protesters from Lafayette Square and the attempt to remove Berman, the US attorney in New York, were both off politically. Barr mishandled them. I think that how Trump has responded to the pandemic and the George Floyd demonstrations gives me the sense that both Trump and Barr are off their game. The fact that Trump and Barr lost two major Supreme Court decisions last week, that Berman so openly defied Barr’s order to resign, shows that their political capital could be decreasing.
So there’s an argument that Trump and Barr are just out of touch with the sentiment of this country right now. As I was saying earlier, Barr is still mouthing the same “law and order” talking points you heard in the ’80s. And even in interviews now, Barr will acknowledge that racism exists but he rejects the idea that there’s systemic racism in this country. He clearly doesn’t feel the sense of urgency that so many Americans feel.
Sean Illing
For better or worse, Barr sees this moment as his last stand, right? There’s no going back at this point.
David Rohde
He’s all in. Again, the person I spoke to who’s close to Barr says he really believes what he’s doing is right. And friends of Barr have told me that none of these views are new. And he has nothing to lose. He’s had a long, successful career. Nothing is more important to him than this right now. And I was told today Barr will absolutely be serving through the November election and the remainder of Trump’s term. He is fully committed to seeing this through.