vox--2020-11-25--In China, nearly 1 million people have reportedly already gotten a coronavirus vaccine

While countries around the world anxiously await the arrival of a vaccine for the coronavirus , a growing slice of the Chinese population has reportedly already been vaccinated .
In an interview last week with the Sichuan Daily , the chair of the Chinese pharmaceutical company Sinopharm Group said that its Covid-19 vaccines have been used by nearly one million people in China .
The vaccinations have occurred as part of an emergency use program that began in late July , though few details about it have been revealed by the Chinese government .
What we do know is that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s State Council authorized high-risk groups including medical workers , customs officials , and transportation workers to start receiving one of three Chinese-made vaccines — two from Sinopharm and one produced by Sinovac .
But some Chinese cities have also been offering the vaccines to members of the public .
So far , the vaccines appear to have been administered in a decentralized fashion , with a handful of local governments officially announcing availability .
People have rushed to queue up for a dose even though transmission remains very low in China @ @ @ @ @ @ @ vaccines has yet to be proven .
Here ’ s what we know about China ’ s unconventional approach to Covid-19 vaccination so far , from the risks to the potential for global deployment .
What ’ s so different about China ’ s emergency vaccine program The US is expected to launch an emergency vaccine program soon as well , but under different circumstances .
Three major research teams have published initial data on their efficacy and safety .
Pfizer and BioNTech , which filed for Emergency Use Authorization for their vaccine @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 95 percent effective based on initial results from the phase 3 trials .
These trials test a vaccine on a large segment of the population ( tens of thousands of study participants ) for efficacy and safety .
Two other vaccine makers — Moderna and AstraZeneca and Oxford in the UK — have also released promising phase 3 data showing high efficacy and no serious adverse events for their candidate vaccines .
The three vaccines approved in China ’ s emergency use program , on the other hand , have yet to report @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
The trials are underway in countries other than China where transmission is still high enough to quickly test the protectiveness of the vaccine .
A Sinovac official said they are likely to report initial phase 3 data within the next month .
International public health experts have warned that vaccination before the evidence is in from phase 3 trials could expose recipients of the vaccine to unknown risks without actually protecting them from the virus , if the vaccine doesn ’ t prove to be sufficiently effective .
Yet Chinese central government @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to protect Chinese citizens , even though Covid-19 cases in China remain very low .
Local officials are under pressure to keep transmission at zero , so they have an incentive to allow vaccine distribution in their regions , said Yanzhong Huang , a professor of global health at Seton Hall University .
China is also vying to be the leader in vaccine development and distribution : Chinese companies have five of the 13 vaccines in phase 3 trials .
Sinopharm ’ s vaccines are already being deployed outside China — the United @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for emergency use .
“ Until now , all our progress , from research to clinical trials to production and emergency use , we have been leading the world , ” said Liu Jingzhen , Sinopharm Group ’ s chair , in the Sichuan Daily interview last week .
Because Sinopharm and Sinovac haven ’ t released phase 3 data , they are actually behind the leading US and UK vaccine-makers .
But these Chinese vaccines have an advantage over Pfizer and Moderna : They don ’ t need to be stored at @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the vaccines will not be as challenging .
And the emergency use program that has been rolled out so far in China shows that mass deployment is already possible — at the scale of nearly 2 million doses , if the Sinopharm chair ’ s statement is accurate .
( Like the frontrunners in the US , the Chinese emergency use vaccines are designed to be administered in two doses . )
“ China has always impressed with its ability to carry out large-scale operations since the beginning of the pandemic , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of people within a number of days .
This just adds to that list of accomplishments , ” Li Yang Hsu , an infectious disease expert at the National University of Singapore , told Vox .
How might 1 million people in China already be vaccinated ?
In August , the government official in charge of overseeing vaccine development in China , Zheng Zhongwei , said , “ In order to prevent the disease spread in the fall and winter , we are considering a moderate expansion in the [ emergency use ] @ @ @ @ @ @ @ high-risk demographics were intended to be the priority recipients .
Since then , news has trickled out about the authorized vaccines becoming available in a number of cities , but not through anything resembling a coordinated campaign .
Zhejiang province appears to be particularly open to administering the vaccines .
As of mid-October , the provincial government said almost 750,000 doses of Covid-19 vaccines have been doled out in Zhejiang .
The news site Caixin reported that health care workers had received a vaccine at a Hangzhou hospital .
Two other cities in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ began offering vaccines in October .
These cities are known for their export industries , and workers traveling overseas have been among the main vaccine recipients in China , according to Caixin .
Yet Jiaxing officials said any member of the public with “ emergency needs ” could sign up for an appointment — not just those deemed to be at higher risk .
Recipients of the vaccine have been wide-ranging in other cities as well : NPR ’ s Emily Feng reported that a Peking duck chef was in line to get @ @ @ @ @ @ @ abroad have also been common recipients of the vaccines , a Sinopharm official told the Paper .
“ This is still a decentralized process , ” said Yanzhong Huang , “ so local governments and vaccine makers , you know , are taking advantage of this regulatory vacuum , to make the vaccine available to the people in China.
” Local governments want to keep the virus completely contained to avoid consequences from higher-ups and the mass testing campaigns and lockdowns that have followed China ’ s small outbreaks over the previous months @ @ @ @ @ @ @ money through the emergency use program , Huang said .
The Chinese public has also been shown to be very open to Covid-19 vaccines .
A survey published in Nature found that 90 percent of respondents in China would accept a vaccine — the highest rate among the 19 countries in the study .
Some experts question the logic behind such an early rollout of mass vaccinations in a place where transmission of the virus is so low .
“ As one of the safest places in terms of Covid-19 , it doesn @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the vaccine in the country , ” Huang said .
We still don ’ t know how safe or effective the leading Chinese vaccines are Even as a rising number of people in China are lining up to receive a shot , they have no guarantee that the vaccines they are taking will be effective .
While we await phase 3 data , the clearest picture of the vaccines ’ safety and efficacy yet have come are from the smaller phase 1 and 2 trials .
Here ’ s a quick rundown @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Interim results from the phase 1 and 2 trials of the Sinopharm vaccine developed by subsidiary Wuhan Institute of Biological Products published in JAMA showed that the vaccine produced an immune response and recipients had low rates of adverse effects .
A study of the phase 1 and 2 results from Sinopharm ’ s other vaccine , developed by the Beijing Institute of Biological Products , published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases last month , had similar findings .
Last week , results from Sinovac ’ s combined phase 1 and 2 trials @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Diseases .
The data shows that the vaccine doses triggered an immune response and did not cause any severe reactions among the 700 people tested , but its efficacy also appears to be lower than other leading vaccine candidates .
“ Although the initial data and results of the Sinovac vaccine in early-stage trials are good , it would be more reassuring to also have the results from the Phase 3 trials before mass vaccination occurs , ” said National University of Singapore ’ s Li Yang Hsu .
The risks of using @ @ @ @ @ @ @ wide-ranging .
So far , no adverse reactions have been reported , according to Sinopharm and Sinovac executives , but rare side effects may appear as a growing number of people are vaccinated .
Further , if the efficacy for the emergency use vaccines turns out to be low , taking a second vaccine may not be possible because the previous immune response may interfere with the second vaccine , according to the Children ’ s Hospital of Philadelphia .
If the Chinese vaccines do turn out to be sufficiently protective against Covid-19 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ compared to Pfizer and Moderna .
Sorting out the cold chain logistics to keep Pfizer and Moderna vaccines at very low temperatures throughout distribution will be challenging , as Vox ’ s Umair Irfan has explained .
Inactivated virus vaccines , like the three distributed Chinese vaccines , do not have to be kept so cold , and therefore don ’ t require the same kind of investment for distribution .
“ CoronaVac could be an attractive option because it can be stored in a standard refrigerator between 2 and 8 degrees centigrade @ @ @ @ @ @ @ vaccines including flu , ” Gang Zeng , a medical manager at Sinovac , stated in a press release for the Lancet study .
“ The vaccine may also remain stable for up to three years in storage , which would offer some advantages for distribution to regions where access to refrigeration is challenging.
” Zheng Zhongwei , the Chinese official in charge of vaccine development , has said that the country plans to have 600 million doses of vaccine ready by end of this year and 1 billion by the end of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are slated to be sent abroad .
So far , Brazil and Turkey have signed contracts to buy vaccines from Sinovac ; 6 million doses of CoronaVac are scheduled to be shipped to Brazil by January .
China is also participating in Covax , a global initiative to promote the equitable provision of Covid-19 vaccines .
“ The number of doses available in China will by far be too little to permit export unless a political decision is taken to ship vaccines to overseas despite still-existing vaccine needs in China , ” Klaus @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for the World Health Organization , told Nature .
In the near term , as thousands of Chinese people continue to receive emergency vaccine doses , the looming question is whether the phase 3 trials show that the Sinopharm and Sinovac vaccines are in fact safe and effective .

While countries around the world anxiously await the arrival of a vaccine for the coronavirus, a growing slice of the Chinese population has reportedly already been vaccinated. In an interview last week with the Sichuan Daily, the chair of the Chinese pharmaceutical company Sinopharm Group said that its Covid-19 vaccines have been used by nearly 1 million people in China.
The vaccinations have occurred as part of an emergency use program that began in late July, though few details about it have been revealed by the Chinese government. What we do know is that as part of the program, China’s State Council authorized high-risk groups including medical workers, customs officials, and transportation workers to start receiving one of three Chinese-made vaccines — two from Sinopharm and one produced by Sinovac. But some Chinese cities have also been offering the vaccines to members of the public.
So far, the vaccines appear to have been administered in a decentralized fashion, with a handful of local governments officially announcing availability. People have rushed to queue up for a dose even though transmission remains very low in China and the safety and efficacy of the vaccines has yet to be proven.
Here’s what we know about China’s unconventional approach to Covid-19 vaccination so far, from the risks to the potential for global deployment.
What’s so different about China’s emergency vaccine program
The US is expected to launch an emergency vaccine program soon as well, but under different circumstances. Three major research teams have published initial data on their efficacy and safety. Pfizer and BioNTech, which filed for Emergency Use Authorization for their vaccine last week, reported that it is 95 percent effective based on initial results from the phase 3 trials. These trials test a vaccine on a large segment of the population (tens of thousands of study participants) for efficacy and safety. Two other vaccine makers — Moderna and AstraZeneca and Oxford in the UK — have also released promising phase 3 data showing high efficacy and no serious adverse events for their candidate vaccines.
The three vaccines approved in China’s emergency use program, on the other hand, have yet to report any results from their phase 3 trials. The trials are underway in countries other than China where transmission is still high enough to quickly test the protectiveness of the vaccine. A Sinovac official said they are likely to report initial phase 3 data within the next month.
International public health experts have warned that vaccination before the evidence is in from phase 3 trials could expose recipients of the vaccine to unknown risks without actually protecting them from the virus, if the vaccine doesn’t prove to be sufficiently effective.
Yet Chinese central government officials have defended the program as necessary to protect Chinese citizens, even though Covid-19 cases in China remain very low. Local officials are under pressure to keep transmission at zero, so they have an incentive to allow vaccine distribution in their regions, said Yanzhong Huang, a professor of global health at Seton Hall University.
China is also vying to be the leader in vaccine development and distribution: Chinese companies have five of the 13 vaccines in phase 3 trials. Sinopharm’s vaccines are already being deployed outside China — the United Arab Emirates has also approved the vaccines for emergency use.
“Until now, all our progress, from research to clinical trials to production and emergency use, we have been leading the world,” said Liu Jingzhen, Sinopharm Group’s chair, in the Sichuan Daily interview last week.
Because Sinopharm and Sinovac haven’t released phase 3 data, they are actually behind the leading US and UK vaccine makers. But these Chinese vaccines have an advantage over Pfizer’s and Moderna’s: They don’t need to be stored at low temperatures.
This means that distribution of the vaccines will not be as challenging. And the emergency use program that has been rolled out so far in China shows that mass deployment is already possible — at the scale of nearly 2 million doses, if the Sinopharm chair’s statement is accurate. (Like the frontrunners in the US, the Chinese emergency use vaccines are designed to be administered in two doses.)
“China has always impressed with its ability to carry out large-scale operations since the beginning of the pandemic, including building new hospitals and testing millions of people within a number of days. This just adds to that list of accomplishments,” Li Yang Hsu, an infectious disease expert at the National University of Singapore, told Vox.
How might 1 million people in China already be vaccinated?
In August, the government official in charge of overseeing vaccine development in China, Zheng Zhongwei, said, “In order to prevent the disease spread in the fall and winter, we are considering a moderate expansion in the [emergency use] program.” People in high-risk occupations and high-risk demographics were intended to be the priority recipients.
Since then, news has trickled out about the authorized vaccines becoming available in a number of cities, but not through anything resembling a coordinated campaign.
Zhejiang province appears to be particularly open to administering the vaccines. As of mid-October, the provincial government said almost 750,000 doses of Covid-19 vaccines have been doled out in Zhejiang. The news site Caixin reported that health care workers had received a vaccine at a Hangzhou hospital.
Two other cities in the province, Jiaxing and Yiwu, began offering vaccines in October. These cities are known for their export industries, and workers traveling overseas have been among the main vaccine recipients in China, according to Caixin.
Yet Jiaxing officials said any member of the public with “emergency needs” could sign up for an appointment — not just those deemed to be at higher risk. Recipients of the vaccine have been wide-ranging in other cities as well: NPR’s Emily Feng reported that a Peking duck chef was in line to get vaccinated in Beijing. Chinese students going abroad have also been common recipients of the vaccines, a Sinopharm official told the Paper.
“This is still a decentralized process,” said Yanzhong Huang, “so local governments and vaccine makers, you know, are taking advantage of this regulatory vacuum, to make the vaccine available to the people in China.”
Local governments want to keep the virus completely contained to avoid consequences from higher-ups and the mass testing campaigns and lockdowns that have followed China’s small outbreaks over the previous months. Meanwhile, vaccine makers are making money through the emergency use program, Huang said.
The Chinese public has also been shown to be very open to Covid-19 vaccines. A survey published in Nature found that 90 percent of respondents in China would accept a vaccine — the highest rate among the 19 countries in the study.
Some experts question the logic behind such an early rollout of mass vaccinations in a place where transmission of the virus is so low. “As one of the safest places in terms of Covid-19, it doesn’t really justify the widespread use of the vaccine in the country,” Huang said.
We still don’t know how safe or effective the leading Chinese vaccines are
Even as a rising number of people in China are lining up to receive a shot, they have no guarantee that the vaccines they are taking will be effective.
While we await phase 3 data, the clearest picture of the vaccines’ safety and efficacy yet have come are from the smaller phase 1 and 2 trials. Here’s a quick rundown of the results published so far.
Interim results from the phase 1 and 2 trials of the Sinopharm vaccine developed by subsidiary Wuhan Institute of Biological Products, published in JAMA, showed that the vaccine produced an immune response and recipients had low rates of adverse effects. A study of the phase 1 and 2 results from Sinopharm’s other vaccine, developed by the Beijing Institute of Biological Products, published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases last month, had similar findings.
Last week, results from Sinovac’s combined phase 1 and 2 trials were also published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases. The data shows that the vaccine doses triggered an immune response and did not cause any severe reactions among the 700 people tested, but its efficacy also appears to be lower than other leading vaccine candidates.
“Although the initial data and results of the Sinovac vaccine in early-stage trials are good, it would be more reassuring to also have the results from the Phase 3 trials before mass vaccination occurs,” said National University of Singapore’s Li Yang Hsu.
The risks of using these vaccines before they are proven are wide-ranging. So far, no adverse reactions have been reported, according to Sinopharm and Sinovac executives, but rare side effects may appear as a growing number of people are vaccinated.
Further, if the efficacy for the emergency use vaccines turns out to be low, taking a second vaccine may not be possible because the previous immune response may interfere with the second vaccine, according to the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.
Will Chinese vaccines go global?
If the Chinese vaccines do turn out to be sufficiently protective against Covid-19, they may be at an advantage compared to Pfizer and Moderna. Sorting out the cold chain logistics to keep Pfizer and Moderna vaccines at very low temperatures throughout distribution will be challenging, as Vox’s Umair Irfan has explained.
Inactivated virus vaccines, like the three distributed Chinese vaccines, do not have to be kept so cold, and therefore don’t require the same kind of investment for distribution. “CoronaVac could be an attractive option because it can be stored in a standard refrigerator between 2 and 8 degrees centigrade, which is typical for many existing vaccines including flu,” Gang Zeng, a medical manager at Sinovac, stated in a press release for the Lancet study. “The vaccine may also remain stable for up to three years in storage, which would offer some advantages for distribution to regions where access to refrigeration is challenging.”
Zheng Zhongwei, the Chinese official in charge of vaccine development, has said that the country plans to have 600 million doses of vaccine ready by end of this year and 1 billion by the end of 2021.
But many of these vaccines are slated to be sent abroad. So far, Brazil and Turkey have signed contracts to buy vaccines from Sinovac; 6 million doses of CoronaVac are scheduled to be shipped to Brazil by January. China is also participating in Covax, a global initiative to promote the equitable provision of Covid-19 vaccines.
“The number of doses available in China will by far be too little to permit export unless a political decision is taken to ship vaccines to overseas despite still-existing vaccine needs in China,” Klaus Stohr, who formerly ran epidemic response for the World Health Organization, told Nature.
In the near term, as thousands of Chinese people continue to receive emergency vaccine doses, the looming question is whether the phase 3 trials show that the Sinopharm and Sinovac vaccines are in fact safe and effective.


vox--2020-11-25--Dissecting the megapopularity of the Frozen movies with a 5.25-year-old

Seven years ago , on November 22 , 2013 , a lone voice , crying in the wilderness , issued a proclamation that would enthrall a planet ’ s children with its honeyed tongue .
“ Let it go , ” urged the voice .
“ Let it go !
Can ’ t hold it back anymore !
Let it go !
Let it go-o-o !
Turn away and slam the door !
” “ I don ’ t care , ” the voice continued , “ what they ’ re going to say .
Let the storm rage on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ !
” That voice , later identified as Princess Elsa , one of the dual heroes of the Disney animated feature film Frozen , returned with the new doctrine of Frozen II on November 22 , 2019 ( yes , right down to the day ) .
In this chronicle , Elsa and her sister Anna issued further proclamations the children of the world took to heart .
Also , Elsa got a super rad water horse .
I have never quite understood the appeal of the Frozen franchise .
I like the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ feature overstuffed plotting and considerable failures of nerve .
Both Frozen films come so close to upending the Disney template before ultimately chickening out ; as someone who enjoys the Disney template but also doesn ’ t mind subverting it , I find them to be failures of potential .
And that ’ s before we get to all of the ways the movies want to have their cake and eat it too ( Elsa being vaguely coded as a queer character without being textually queer ) .
But I am a non-child @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s appeal is surely lost on me .
( Okay , I understand the water horse .
I ’ d love a water horse . )
Fortunately for me , one of my most esteemed colleagues* is an expert on both the Frozen franchise and on being a child .
I speak , of course , of Vox ’ s critic at small , Eliza , who is now 5-and-a-quarter and who consented to speak with me in some detail about the Frozen franchise .
* I am reliably informed that Eliza @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of all of her mother ’ s coworkers , and I can assure you Eliza is my best friend who is 5 .
Emily : As I just mentioned , I find the Frozen films slightly half-baked .
The first is loosely inspired by Hans Christian Andersen ’ s “ The Snow Queen , ” and you can almost see the roots of that story in the film if you look closely .
But in “ The Snow Queen , ” the titular character is a villain , and Frozen never has the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ even briefly .
She is demonized and misunderstood , not so drunk off her own power that she actually becomes monstrous .
I don ’ t know that making Elsa villainous is necessary — especially if you want to read her as subtextually queer ( as I tend to do ) — but it creates a movie where the story all but demands that Elsa and Anna seem like they ’ re truly at odds , before backing away from that conflict almost completely .
Instead , it ’ s Anna ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the true bad guy , via a diabolical plot that makes next to no sense .
( He needs to sideline both sisters to rule the kingdom , yet he does almost nothing to achieve this nefarious objective until it ’ s time for him to reveal his plan . )
There are even more moments when Frozen II shies away from something truly interesting .
It very nearly destroys the castle of Arendelle , as part of a story about how a country ’ s people are what has value , not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ It also flirts with the idea that Elsa might have met the girl of her dreams , before promptly sidelining that character for a large swath of the movie .
But let ’ s just admit up front that I am not the target audience for Frozen .
And I don ’ t even mean that because I ’ m not a kid .
What I mean is that I ’ m not one half of a duo of young sisters .
Yes , I have sisters , and yes , we have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ am so clearly the Elsa ) , but when we were kids , a Disney princess was defined by her boyfriend .
Not so with the children of today !
Eliza , as a child of today , which Frozen movie is your favorite ?
Emily : Interesting .
Why do you like them both , instead of one or the other ?
Eliza : The first one because Marshmallow at the end isn ’ t mean anymore , and the second one because the Earth Giants aren ’ t mean after the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ things that are big and scary turn out to be not so mean ?
Emily : When you think about the characters in the movie , who ’ s your favorite ?
Emily : My favorite ’ s Elsa , and I have asked you this question before , and you have said Elsa in the past .
And now Anna ’ s in front .
Why do you like Anna more now ?
Emily : Awwwwww .
[ Legitimately , I said this .
I have the transcript to prove it .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ stop being mean to each other and start being nice to each other again ?
Eliza : I forget .
[ lightbulb ] Oh !
Wait !
Because , because , because , because Anna turns to ice because she saved Elsa .
And then , and then , and then , and then Elsa unfreezes Anna .
And then Anna unfreezes and she ’ s back to normal with an unfrozen heart .
[ beat ] Guess what !
There ’ s a rubber band on Mommy ’ s chair .
Emily @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on Mommy ’ s chair ?
Eliza : I don ’ t know .
How did it even get on the chair ?
It ’ s looped around her chair , but it ’ s not open , so people couldn ’ t get it off .
Emily : You should ask your mom why there ’ s a rubber band looped around her chair .
I want to get to the bottom of this mystery .
[ To date , this mystery remains unsolved . ]
Emily : Disney must have seen @ @ @ @ @ @ @ way to sell the children of the world toys featuring not just one princess but two .
You can ’ t have an Elsa toy without an Anna toy , and vice versa , and I can imagine the accountants at Disney feverishly anticipating a whole wave of “ Love Is an Open Door ” –themed engagement parties and “ Let It Go ” –themed divorce celebrations , as the Frozen generation ages to adulthood .
Decisions made based on toys are a little grubby and materialistic , but I don ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Disney Company for one that wasn ’ t at least a little bit grubby and materialistic .
And at least if the kids of today are having fictional role models , Anna and Elsa are pretty good ones , thanks to their sisterly bond , Anna ’ s refusal to give up on Elsa , and Elsa ’ s super cool ice powers .
Eliza , you ’ ve attended our little confab dressed as Anna .
This sartorial choice is in keeping with your stated preference for Anna at this point in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ come dressed as Elsa ?
Come to think of it , why didn ’ t I come dressed as Elsa ?
That slinky ice blue number from “ Let It Go ” is pretty amazing .
Eliza : The Elsa dress is really , really , really itchy .
[ for emphasis ] Very , very itchy .
Emily : I want to elaborate on why Elsa is my favorite : She has ice powers .
I think it would be really cool to have ice powers .
What do you think ?
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ Elsa .
Emily : In the first one , they kind of get into a fight .
What do you think about that ?
Emily : Do you and your sister ever do anything like that ?
Emily : Well , Anna and Elsa also save each other a few times .
Have you ever done anything nice for your sister ?
Eliza : Uh-huh !
One night , I wanted Mom to stand [ next to my top bunk ] and pet me , because I ’ m learning to sleep by @ @ @ @ @ @ @ But I said first I want Nora to get a turn with Mom petting her , because I love her .
Eliza : [ spinning around in her mother ’ s desk chair ] Wheeeeeeeee !
Emily : Eliza , who are some of your favorite characters who aren ’ t Anna or Elsa ?
Emily : Ah , yes , kids really do love big things .
I suppose that ’ s because when we ’ re children , everything is big , from our parents to many other kids to big @ @ @ @ @ @ @ children see something that dwarfs anyone — even adults — we feel both a primal joy and a primal terror , especially once we realize that such a gigantic creature could be our friend .
What do you think of my theory , Eliza ?
Why do you like the Earth Giants ?
Emily : Did you hear what I just said ?
What ’ s fun about things that are big ?
Eliza : [ with a look that says “ truly , ma ’ am , you are not getting it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are big .
Emily : What are some other things that are big that you like ?
Emily : How big is that ?
Eliza : Mmm ... [ looks out window to estimate ] Emily : As big as an Earth Giant ?
[ long pause ] What ’ s going on outside ?
Eliza : [ The swing set is as big as ] Nine cars stacked on top of each other !
An Earth Giant is as tall as a tree !
Emily : If I had a friend who @ @ @ @ @ @ @ them to put me in their hand and then put me on top of a building .
What if you were that tall , though ?
What would you do ?
Eliza : I would climb up my swing set like Squirrely the Squirrel does .
Squirrely the Squirrel is what we name every squirrel we see .
Squirrels are brown .
Guess what ?
Eliza : I saw a brown squirrel and a black squirrel before .
Eliza and Emily on why Frozen is so rewatchable Emily : As the parents of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ its sequel have become fixtures of many a child ’ s media diet .
Disney movies have always had this rewatchable quality , and Frozen sure does seem to scratch that particular itch , if only because “ Let It Go ” is so absurdly catchy .
Even beyond the catchiness of its songs , though , Frozen , especially , is uniquely episodic .
It breaks down into a series of short stories that link up into a larger one , and it ’ s theoretically easy for parents to pause the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to Oaken ’ s store or after Hans reveals his betrayal , because it ’ s time for dinner or bed .
( Please don ’ t pause the movie to send kids to bed after Hans reveals his betrayal . )
[ Editor ’ s note : Joke ’ s on you .
It is never easy to pause a movie without a tantrum . ]
The first Frozen movie had a rather chaotic production process that saw the movie ’ s central story constantly shift while the film was being made @ @ @ @ @ @ @ doesn ’ t make much sense , those constant story shifts did accidentally create the episodic quality that makes Frozen so rewatchable .
If you ’ re over one thing , the movie will be on to another imminently .
The same quality applies to Frozen II , though not quite as readily .
That movie is knottier and more thematically ambitious , even if it is beset by failures of nerve throughout .
Its storytelling hangs together slightly better as a cohesive whole , but , perversely , that cohesiveness perhaps works @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with characters the franchise truly is .
( Frozen II , for instance , loses track of Anna ’ s boyfriend Kristoff and his reindeer Sven for a large portion of its second act . )
Eliza , prove me right here .
How many times have you watched these movies ?
Eliza : I ’ ve seen Frozen II three times and Frozen I two times .
Emily : You ’ ve seen Frozen more than two times !
Emily : That ’ s already double what you said before !
Frozen @ @ @ @ @ @ @ but do you remember going to see Frozen II in the theater ?
Eliza : Yes .
And I remember the part when [ my sister ] was asleep when the Earth Giants came .
So she missed it .
Emily : Did you tell her about it later ?
Eliza : No .
But she saw it , because we watched the movie last night .
And guess what , Emily ?
We watched the whole movie before dinner !
Emily : Wow !
I never get to do that !
So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you maybe didn ’ t like as much before that you like a lot more now ?
Or are there things you did like before that — Eliza : Guess what I dream about every night ?
!
Eliza : Octonauts !
My favorite show !
They go under the water !
Emily : [ blatantly trying to get back on topic ] And Frozen is about frozen water !
So you just like water-based storytelling .
Eliza : Yes !
I ’ m very , very , very , very good at @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Emily can not see her , presumably begins doing various strokes ] Emily : As my esteemed colleague Eliza has pointed out , there are many characters one might identify with in the Frozen universe , which may be why the films are so very popular .
If you ’ ve never been an Anna or an Elsa in your relationship with your sibling , you will be at some point .
And we can all be Kristoffs and Svens and snowman Olafs too .
We might all be Earth Giants as well @ @ @ @ @ @ @ m 39 and 50 weeks [ at the time of this conversation ] .
Do you know what that means ?
In like 10 days , I ’ m going to be 40 .
I ’ m not looking forward to it .
I don ’ t like being this old .
Emily : [ desperately trying not to say to a 5-year-old , “ I ’ m afraid of death ” ] Because I have to do boring things like pay my bills .
I can ’ t run around and play @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Which character are you most like in Frozen ?
Emily : Why do you think you ’ re like Anna ?
Eliza : Because Anna ’ s 5 , and she has brown hair .
[ Anna is much older than 5 , and she has red hair , but we ’ ll give Eliza this one . ]
Emily : Does that make your sister Elsa ?
Emily : What about me ?
Who am I most like ?
[ long pause ] I know you don ’ t know me as @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so you don ’ t have to have — Emily : That is honestly the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me .
Eliza : You have the same kind of hair .
Emily : What about your mom ?
Who is she most like ?
Eliza : [ longer silence ] Because she told me .
Jen , Eliza ’ s mom , in extreme distance : I did not tell you that !
Emily : Do you have a different answer for who your mom is like ?

Seven years ago, on November 22, 2013, a lone voice, crying in the wilderness, issued a proclamation that would enthrall a planet’s children with its honeyed tongue. “Let it go,” urged the voice. “Let it go! Can’t hold it back anymore! Let it go! Let it go-o-o! Turn away and slam the door!”
“I don’t care,” the voice continued, “what they’re going to say. Let the storm rage on. The cold never bothered me anyway!”
That voice, later identified as Princess Elsa, one of the dual heroes of the Disney animated feature film Frozen, returned with the new doctrine of Frozen II on November 22, 2019 (yes, right down to the day). In this chronicle, Elsa and her sister Anna issued further proclamations the children of the world took to heart. Also, Elsa got a super rad water horse.
I have never quite understood the appeal of the Frozen franchise. I like the movies, but I find them to feature overstuffed plotting and considerable failures of nerve. Both Frozen films come so close to upending the Disney template before ultimately chickening out; as someone who enjoys the Disney template but also doesn’t mind subverting it, I find them to be failures of potential. And that’s before we get to all of the ways the movies want to have their cake and eat it too (Elsa being vaguely coded as a queer character without being textually queer).
But I am a non-child, and therefore, some of Frozen’s appeal is surely lost on me. (Okay, I understand the water horse. I’d love a water horse.) Fortunately for me, one of my most esteemed colleagues* is an expert on both the Frozen franchise and on being a child. I speak, of course, of Vox’s critic at small, Eliza, who is now 5-and-a-quarter and who consented to speak with me in some detail about the Frozen franchise.
* I am reliably informed that Eliza described me as her best friend out of all of her mother’s coworkers, and I can assure you Eliza is my best friend who is 5.
Emily and Eliza on Frozen’s eternal appeal
Emily: As I just mentioned, I find the Frozen films slightly half-baked. The first is loosely inspired by Hans Christian Andersen’s “The Snow Queen,” and you can almost see the roots of that story in the film if you look closely. But in “The Snow Queen,” the titular character is a villain, and Frozen never has the courage to make Elsa its antagonist, even briefly.
She is demonized and misunderstood, not so drunk off her own power that she actually becomes monstrous. I don’t know that making Elsa villainous is necessary — especially if you want to read her as subtextually queer (as I tend to do) — but it creates a movie where the story all but demands that Elsa and Anna seem like they’re truly at odds, before backing away from that conflict almost completely. Instead, it’s Anna’s boyfriend Hans who turns out to be the true bad guy, via a diabolical plot that makes next to no sense. (He needs to sideline both sisters to rule the kingdom, yet he does almost nothing to achieve this nefarious objective until it’s time for him to reveal his plan.)
There are even more moments when Frozen II shies away from something truly interesting. It very nearly destroys the castle of Arendelle, as part of a story about how a country’s people are what has value, not its power, but it blinks. It also flirts with the idea that Elsa might have met the girl of her dreams, before promptly sidelining that character for a large swath of the movie.
But let’s just admit up front that I am not the target audience for Frozen. And I don’t even mean that because I’m not a kid. What I mean is that I’m not one half of a duo of young sisters. Yes, I have sisters, and yes, we have complex and fascinating dynamics (though I am so clearly the Elsa), but when we were kids, a Disney princess was defined by her boyfriend.
Not so with the children of today! Eliza, as a child of today, which Frozen movie is your favorite?
Eliza: Both.
Emily: Interesting. Why do you like them both, instead of one or the other?
Eliza: The first one because Marshmallow at the end isn’t mean anymore, and the second one because the Earth Giants aren’t mean after the end.
Emily: You like when things that are big and scary turn out to be not so mean?
Eliza: [nods]
Emily: When you think about the characters in the movie, who’s your favorite?
Eliza: [long pause] Anna.
Emily: My favorite’s Elsa, and I have asked you this question before, and you have said Elsa in the past. And now Anna’s in front. Why do you like Anna more now?
Eliza: Because she’s my sister’s favorite.
Emily: Awwwwww. [Legitimately, I said this. I have the transcript to prove it.] So why do Anna and Elsa stop being mean to each other and start being nice to each other again?
Eliza: I don’t know.
Emily: You don’t know?
Eliza: I forget. [lightbulb] Oh! Wait! Because, because, because, because Anna turns to ice because she saved Elsa. And then, and then, and then, and then Elsa unfreezes Anna. And then Anna unfreezes and she’s back to normal with an unfrozen heart. [beat] Guess what! There’s a rubber band on Mommy’s chair.
Emily: Why is there a rubber band on Mommy’s chair?
Eliza: I don’t know. How did it even get on the chair? It’s looped around her chair, but it’s not open, so people couldn’t get it off.
Emily: You should ask your mom why there’s a rubber band looped around her chair. I want to get to the bottom of this mystery. [To date, this mystery remains unsolved.]
Eliza and Emily on Frozen: merchandising bonanza
Emily: Disney must have seen Frozen’s success as a surefire way to sell the children of the world toys featuring not just one princess but two. You can’t have an Elsa toy without an Anna toy, and vice versa, and I can imagine the accountants at Disney feverishly anticipating a whole wave of “Love Is an Open Door”–themed engagement parties and “Let It Go”–themed divorce celebrations, as the Frozen generation ages to adulthood.
Decisions made based on toys are a little grubby and materialistic, but I don’t think anyone would ever mistake the Walt Disney Company for one that wasn’t at least a little bit grubby and materialistic. And at least if the kids of today are having fictional role models, Anna and Elsa are pretty good ones, thanks to their sisterly bond, Anna’s refusal to give up on Elsa, and Elsa’s super cool ice powers.
Eliza, you’ve attended our little confab dressed as Anna. This sartorial choice is in keeping with your stated preference for Anna at this point in time. Why didn’t you come dressed as Elsa? Come to think of it, why didn’t I come dressed as Elsa? That slinky ice blue number from “Let It Go” is pretty amazing.
Eliza: The Elsa dress is really, really, really itchy. [for emphasis] Very, very itchy.
Emily: I want to elaborate on why Elsa is my favorite: She has ice powers. I think it would be really cool to have ice powers. What do you think?
Eliza: My favorite is Anna and Elsa.
Emily: In the first one, they kind of get into a fight. What do you think about that?
Eliza: I don’t like it.
Emily: Do you and your sister ever do anything like that?
Eliza: [silence] I don’t know.
Emily: Well, Anna and Elsa also save each other a few times. Have you ever done anything nice for your sister?
Eliza: Uh-huh! One night, I wanted Mom to stand [next to my top bunk] and pet me, because I’m learning to sleep by myself, and so is Nora. But I said first I want Nora to get a turn with Mom petting her, because I love her.
Emily: That’s really sweet.
Eliza: [spinning around in her mother’s desk chair] Wheeeeeeeee!
Eliza and Emily on gigantic things
Emily: Eliza, who are some of your favorite characters who aren’t Anna or Elsa?
Eliza: The Earth Giants.
Emily: Ah, yes, kids really do love big things. I suppose that’s because when we’re children, everything is big, from our parents to many other kids to big dogs. Thus, when we as children see something that dwarfs anyone — even adults — we feel both a primal joy and a primal terror, especially once we realize that such a gigantic creature could be our friend.
What do you think of my theory, Eliza? Why do you like the Earth Giants?
Eliza: Because they’re so big.
Emily: Did you hear what I just said? What’s fun about things that are big?
Eliza: [with a look that says “truly, ma’am, you are not getting it”] Because I like things that are big.
Emily: What are some other things that are big that you like?
Eliza: My swing set!
Emily: How big is that?
Eliza: Mmm ... [looks out window to estimate]
Emily: As big as an Earth Giant? [long pause] What’s going on outside?
Eliza: [The swing set is as big as] Nine cars stacked on top of each other! An Earth Giant is as tall as a tree!
Emily: If I had a friend who was that big, I would ask them to put me in their hand and then put me on top of a building. What if you were that tall, though? What would you do?
Eliza: I would climb up my swing set like Squirrely the Squirrel does. Squirrely the Squirrel is what we name every squirrel we see. Squirrels are brown. Guess what?
Emily: What?
Eliza: I saw a brown squirrel and a black squirrel before.
Eliza and Emily on why Frozen is so rewatchable
Emily: As the parents of the world will attest, Frozen and its sequel have become fixtures of many a child’s media diet. Disney movies have always had this rewatchable quality, and Frozen sure does seem to scratch that particular itch, if only because “Let It Go” is so absurdly catchy.
Even beyond the catchiness of its songs, though, Frozen, especially, is uniquely episodic. It breaks down into a series of short stories that link up into a larger one, and it’s theoretically easy for parents to pause the movie after, say, the visit to Oaken’s store or after Hans reveals his betrayal, because it’s time for dinner or bed. (Please don’t pause the movie to send kids to bed after Hans reveals his betrayal.) [Editor’s note: Joke’s on you. It is never easy to pause a movie without a tantrum.]
The first Frozen movie had a rather chaotic production process that saw the movie’s central story constantly shift while the film was being made. And even though the result sometimes doesn’t make much sense, those constant story shifts did accidentally create the episodic quality that makes Frozen so rewatchable. If you’re over one thing, the movie will be on to another imminently.
The same quality applies to Frozen II, though not quite as readily. That movie is knottier and more thematically ambitious, even if it is beset by failures of nerve throughout. Its storytelling hangs together slightly better as a cohesive whole, but, perversely, that cohesiveness perhaps works against the movie, emphasizing how overstuffed with characters the franchise truly is. (Frozen II, for instance, loses track of Anna’s boyfriend Kristoff and his reindeer Sven for a large portion of its second act.)
Eliza, prove me right here. How many times have you watched these movies?
Eliza: I’ve seen Frozen II three times and Frozen I two times.
Emily: You’ve seen Frozen more than two times!
Eliza: Wait. I mean four times.
Emily: That’s already double what you said before! Frozen came out before you were born, but do you remember going to see Frozen II in the theater?
Eliza: Yes. And I remember the part when [my sister] was asleep when the Earth Giants came. So she missed it.
Emily: Did you tell her about it later?
Eliza: No. But she saw it, because we watched the movie last night. And guess what, Emily? We watched the whole movie before dinner!
Emily: Wow! I never get to do that! So are there things in these movies that you maybe didn’t like as much before that you like a lot more now? Or are there things you did like before that —
Eliza: Guess what I dream about every night?!
Emily: What?
Eliza: Octonauts! My favorite show! They go under the water!
Emily: [blatantly trying to get back on topic] And Frozen is about frozen water! So you just like water-based storytelling.
Eliza: Yes! I’m very, very, very, very good at swimming. [falls to floor where Emily cannot see her, presumably begins doing various strokes]
Eliza and Emily on personal identification
Emily: As my esteemed colleague Eliza has pointed out, there are many characters one might identify with in the Frozen universe, which may be why the films are so very popular. If you’ve never been an Anna or an Elsa in your relationship with your sibling, you will be at some point. And we can all be Kristoffs and Svens and snowman Olafs too. We might all be Earth Giants as well.
Eliza —
Eliza: Guess what!? I’m 5-and-a-quarter!
Emily: Wow. I’m 39 and 50 weeks [at the time of this conversation]. Do you know what that means? In like 10 days, I’m going to be 40. I’m not looking forward to it. I don’t like being this old.
Eliza: Why not?
Emily: [desperately trying not to say to a 5-year-old, “I’m afraid of death”] Because I have to do boring things like pay my bills. I can’t run around and play pretend with my sister.
Now. Which character are you most like in Frozen?
Eliza: Anna.
Emily: Why do you think you’re like Anna?
Eliza: Because Anna’s 5, and she has brown hair. [Anna is much older than 5, and she has red hair, but we’ll give Eliza this one.]
Emily: Does that make your sister Elsa?
Eliza: No. She’s Anna too.
Emily: What about me? Who am I most like? [long pause] I know you don’t know me as well as you or your sister, so you don’t have to have —
Eliza: Elsa.
Emily: That is honestly the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me.
Eliza: You have the same kind of hair.
Emily: What about your mom? Who is she most like?
Eliza: [silence] Olaf.
Emily: Olaf? Why Olaf!?
Eliza: [longer silence] Because she told me.
Jen, Eliza’s mom, in extreme distance: I did not tell you that!
Eliza: [very quietly] I’m joking.
Emily: Do you have a different answer for who your mom is like?
Eliza: Elsa.
Emily: Yeah, that’s safe. Let’s stick with that.


vox--2020-11-25--Why streaming devices and streaming networks are fighting over your eyeballs

When Wonder Woman 1984 opens in theaters on Christmas Day , most HBO Max subscribers will be able to watch the movie at home .
Emphasis on most : Right now , that group of HBO Max subscribers does not include those who use a Roku device to watch streaming TV .
This is because Roku , which dominates the US market for streaming devices , and AT & T ’ s WarnerMedia , which owns HBO Max , don ’ t have a deal to put the new service on Roku ’ s streaming boxes , sticks , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ t get a deal done soon , it ’ s unlikely they ’ ll have anything in place for the holiday season , according to people who work at both companies .
Call it the collateral damage of the streaming wars , which bring you an enormous amount of choice about what you can watch and where you can watch it — but also require you to make sure the device and streaming service you want to use are playing together nicely .
So on the one hand , you can now @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that have just about everything or “ skinny bundles ” that leave out things like sports ; you can also sign up for services like Disney+ because you want to see The Mandalorian and then easily unsubscribe when you ’ re done .
On the other hand , you can ’ t watch Peacock , Comcast ’ s new streaming service , on Amazon ’ s Fire TV , or Apple TV+ on Google devices — at least without doing some work beyond pointing and clicking .
It ’ s not like the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and distributors also fought periodically but they never asked you to figure out whether your TV set worked with their cable box .
Instead , both sides are looking at it as a way to set new terms : Who controls the way streaming video gets to you ?
How does the money you spend on that video get split up ?
What about the money advertisers spend trying to reach you ?
Because all of this is new — and because everyone thinks it ’ s going to change a lot in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ probably going to see these kinds of scrimmages happening periodically .
Even if Roku and HBO Max come to terms in the near future , that deal likely won ’ t be a long-term one , which means they could end up in a fight again in a year or two .
There are a lot of people caught in the middle of these skirmishes , too .
HBO Max , for instance , has around 9 million users ; Roku has 46 million users , giving it an estimated 30 percent of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s any consolation for frustrated HBO Max subscribers , they ’ re not alone .
As of right now , anyone who wants to watch Peacock can ’ t watch it on Amazon devices .
That ’ s a big group of people : Peacock has at least 15 million subscribers , and Amazon ’ s Fire ecosystem is the second-most-popular streaming tech in the US .
Peacock is trying to work out a deal with Amazon , and maybe that will happen before the holidays , too .
These things are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ last spring , didn ’ t get a deal to land on Roku devices until September .
HBO Max , which launched in May , didn ’ t get an Amazon deal until mid-November .
Even if your streaming plans aren ’ t going to be interrupted by these two fights , it ’ s worth understanding the backstory to them .
They ’ re fundamentally about money , of course .
But the variations in them shine some light on the way the companies plan to make money from you , the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s Peacock and Amazon , the main sticking point seems to be over who will have direct contact with the viewer , as well as access to their viewing habits and other valuable data .
( Comcast is an investor in Vox Media , which owns this site . )
In the past , Amazon has been able to sell access to HBO and other streaming services via its “ channels ” offering in its Prime Video hub — which meant Amazon controlled billing and every other point of contact with the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ programmers want to wrest that control back .
They want to distribute their own apps on Amazon ’ s Fire TV app store .
They ’ re also okay with giving Amazon a cut of the revenue they make from subscriptions , but they want a direct line to their viewer .
You can see how this played out with the new deal that WarnerMedia and Amazon struck to get HBO Max onto Amazon devices .
While neither company is commenting publicly about the terms , people familiar with the negotiations say the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ had allowed Amazon to sell HBO subscriptions itself .
Instead , WarnerMedia will use its own HBO Max app , which is available on the Amazon Fire TV app store .
The distinction shouldn ’ t matter much to you , the person who wants to stream the new season of Succession .
It mattered enough to Amazon and WarnerMedia to fight about it for months .
When it comes to HBO Max and Roku , it ’ s a little harder to parse the dispute .
People I ’ ve talked to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the main negotiating points that Roku has with partners are well-known : Roku wants a slice of every subscription dollar consumers spend on its platform ; it wants the ability to sell advertising on ad-supported services on its platform , and in some cases , it wants shows or movies from programmers that it can stream on its own Roku-branded service .
( As part of its new deal with Comcast , for instance , Roku gets to run the media company ’ s NBC News Now show live on its free Roku @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Roku , which has seen a steady rise in users over the past few years , has been increasingly aggressive about the terms it asks for .
Scott Rosenberg , a senior vice president who handles programming deals for Roku , says that ’ s not the case .
He says that companies that work with Roku benefit because Roku benefits when they do well .
“ Partners who have a growth mindset , who embrace the opportunity , see enormous growth , ” Rosenberg told me .
The old cable TV distributors @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ” who made the same amount of money regardless of what you watched .
“ They weren ’ t particularly incented to drive [ a programmer ’ s ] success.
” Roku and Amazon dominate streaming TV , but they ’ re not the only ones that end up in disputes .
You can get to Netflix on Apple ’ s Apple TV box , for instance , but not on Apple ’ s Apple TV app because Netflix doesn ’ t want Apple to have access to its data or its customers @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it in 2019 : “ Apple ’ s a great company .
We want to have people watch our shows on our services.
” Apple , meanwhile , doesn ’ t have its Apple TV app available on most devices running Google ’ s Android software .
There ’ s a flip side of all of this : You can argue , with a straight face , that TV is better than it ’ s ever been .
In the old days , you were unlikely to lose the channels you loved to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ but you didn ’ t have any choice about the channels you paid for .
Now you do , and that ’ s great .
And just because a programmer and a TV distributor are at odds doesn ’ t mean you ’ re completely out of luck .
It just means you need to investigate workarounds , which can range from watching on your laptop to streaming a show on your phone and casting it to your TV to buying an extra gadget that is compatible with the programmer you want and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is what I do , with an older Apple TV box , so we can watch HBO Max on our Roku TV .
It ’ s not ideal .
But it will let us watch Wonder Woman .

When Wonder Woman 1984 opens in theaters on Christmas Day, most HBO Max subscribers will be able to watch the movie at home. Emphasis on most: Right now, that group of HBO Max subscribers does not include those who use a Roku device to watch streaming TV.
This is because Roku, which dominates the US market for streaming devices, and AT&T’s WarnerMedia, which owns HBO Max, don’t have a deal to put the new service on Roku’s streaming boxes, sticks, and TVs. If the two companies don’t get a deal done soon, it’s unlikely they’ll have anything in place for the holiday season, according to people who work at both companies.
Call it the collateral damage of the streaming wars, which bring you an enormous amount of choice about what you can watch and where you can watch it — but also require you to make sure the device and streaming service you want to use are playing together nicely.
So on the one hand, you can now pick and choose between streaming TV packages that have just about everything or “skinny bundles” that leave out things like sports; you can also sign up for services like Disney+ because you want to see The Mandalorian and then easily unsubscribe when you’re done. On the other hand, you can’t watch Peacock, Comcast’s new streaming service, on Amazon’s Fire TV, or Apple TV+ on Google devices — at least without doing some work beyond pointing and clicking.
It’s not like the old days of cable TV when programmers and distributors also fought periodically — they never asked you to figure out whether your TV set worked with their cable box. Instead, both sides are looking at it as a way to set new terms: Who controls the way streaming video gets to you? How does the money you spend on that video get split up? What about the money advertisers spend trying to reach you?
Because all of this is new — and because everyone thinks it’s going to change a lot in the coming years — you’re probably going to see these kinds of scrimmages happening periodically. Even if Roku and HBO Max come to terms in the near future, that deal likely won’t be a long-term one, which means they could end up in a fight again in a year or two.
There are a lot of people caught in the middle of these skirmishes, too. HBO Max, for instance, has around 9 million users; Roku has 46 million users, giving it an estimated 30 percent of the streaming device market.
If it’s any consolation for frustrated HBO Max subscribers, they’re not alone. As of right now, anyone who wants to watch Peacock can’t watch it on Amazon devices. That’s a big group of people: Peacock has at least 15 million subscribers, and Amazon’s Fire ecosystem is the second-most-popular streaming tech in the US.
Peacock is trying to work out a deal with Amazon, and maybe that will happen before the holidays, too. These things are moving targets: Peacock, which launched last spring, didn’t get a deal to land on Roku devices until September. HBO Max, which launched in May, didn’t get an Amazon deal until mid-November.
Even if your streaming plans aren’t going to be interrupted by these two fights, it’s worth understanding the backstory to them. They’re fundamentally about money, of course. But the variations in them shine some light on the way the companies plan to make money from you, the viewer.
In the case of Comcast’s Peacock and Amazon, the main sticking point seems to be over who will have direct contact with the viewer, as well as access to their viewing habits and other valuable data. (Comcast is an investor in Vox Media, which owns this site.)
In the past, Amazon has been able to sell access to HBO and other streaming services via its “channels” offering in its Prime Video hub — which meant Amazon controlled billing and every other point of contact with the programmers’ customers.
But increasingly, programmers want to wrest that control back. They want to distribute their own apps on Amazon’s Fire TV app store. They’re also okay with giving Amazon a cut of the revenue they make from subscriptions, but they want a direct line to their viewer.
You can see how this played out with the new deal that WarnerMedia and Amazon struck to get HBO Max onto Amazon devices. While neither company is commenting publicly about the terms, people familiar with the negotiations say the deal essentially unwinds a previous agreement that had allowed Amazon to sell HBO subscriptions itself. Instead, WarnerMedia will use its own HBO Max app, which is available on the Amazon Fire TV app store. The distinction shouldn’t matter much to you, the person who wants to stream the new season of Succession. It mattered enough to Amazon and WarnerMedia to fight about it for months.
When it comes to HBO Max and Roku, it’s a little harder to parse the dispute. People I’ve talked to on both sides seem frustrated. But the main negotiating points that Roku has with partners are well-known: Roku wants a slice of every subscription dollar consumers spend on its platform; it wants the ability to sell advertising on ad-supported services on its platform, and in some cases, it wants shows or movies from programmers that it can stream on its own Roku-branded service. (As part of its new deal with Comcast, for instance, Roku gets to run the media company’s NBC News Now show live on its free Roku channel.)
Industry officials say that Roku, which has seen a steady rise in users over the past few years, has been increasingly aggressive about the terms it asks for. Scott Rosenberg, a senior vice president who handles programming deals for Roku, says that’s not the case. He says that companies that work with Roku benefit because Roku benefits when they do well.
“Partners who have a growth mindset, who embrace the opportunity, see enormous growth,” Rosenberg told me. The old cable TV distributors, he says, “were toll-takers” who made the same amount of money regardless of what you watched. “They weren’t particularly incented to drive [a programmer’s] success.”
Roku and Amazon dominate streaming TV, but they’re not the only ones that end up in disputes. You can get to Netflix on Apple’s Apple TV box, for instance, but not on Apple’s Apple TV app because Netflix doesn’t want Apple to have access to its data or its customers. As Netflix CEO Reed Hastings put it in 2019: “Apple’s a great company. We want to have people watch our shows on our services.” Apple, meanwhile, doesn’t have its Apple TV app available on most devices running Google’s Android software.
There’s a flip side of all of this: You can argue, with a straight face, that TV is better than it’s ever been. In the old days, you were unlikely to lose the channels you loved to a dispute between programmers and distributors — but you didn’t have any choice about the channels you paid for. Now you do, and that’s great.
And just because a programmer and a TV distributor are at odds doesn’t mean you’re completely out of luck. It just means you need to investigate workarounds, which can range from watching on your laptop to streaming a show on your phone and casting it to your TV to buying an extra gadget that is compatible with the programmer you want and plugging that into your TV.
Which is what I do, with an older Apple TV box, so we can watch HBO Max on our Roku TV. It’s not ideal. But it will let us watch Wonder Woman.