motherjones--2020-05-13--Stacey Abrams on Trump: “We Should Be Frightened, but We Should Also Be Fighting.”

The president ’ s son-in-law , Jared Kushner , sparked a national panic attack on Tuesday when he suggested to Time that he had personal insight into whether or not the 2020 election would take place , leaving room for some doubt .
“ It ’ s not my decision to make , so I ’ m not sure I can commit one way or the other , ” he said about holding the November poll .
“ But right now , that ’ s the plan.
” The elections are run by the states ; the president can ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Kushner ’ s quote was worrying enough for those who are already vexed about the executive branch using the coronavirus crisis to further impede the right to vote ( or , in the worst-case scenario , cancel elections outright ) .
And the comment was so brazen that Kushner himself experienced a rare jolt of self-awareness : He issued a new statement to NBC on Wednesday conceding , “ I have not been involved in , nor am I aware of , any discussions about trying to change the date of the presidential @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a piece of Kushner puffery , the latest in a long career of self-regard ( recently he described the administration ’ s coronavirus response as a “ great success story ” ) , but the collective freakout points to very real concerns over threats to the 2020 vote , as the president ramps up campaign rhetoric against vote-by-mail , and his party attempts to stymie participation in the states .
Recently , our senior reporter Ari Berman sat down ( via Zoom , of course ) with Stacey Abrams , the former candidate @ @ @ @ @ @ @ some of the biggest impediments to voting rights across the country and discuss how the pandemic is being weaponized against participation , especially among voters of color .
In a wide-ranging chat , which you can hear on this week ’ s episode of the Mother Jones Podcast , Abrams talks about launching her voting rights initiative , Fair Fight , after her narrow 2018 loss to now-Gov .
Brian Kemp ; ongoing threats to the 2020 census ; Kemp ’ s response to COVID-19 ; and the dangerous attempt to suppress voters @ @ @ @ @ @ @ “ That was a tragedy and a travesty that should not be repeated in a democratized , industrialized nation , ” Abrams tells Berman .
“ We were able to vote during the Civil War , we were able to vote during the Spanish flu of 1918 , there is no excuse for not holding our elections in 2020.
” You can listen to the full show , read an edited transcript , or watch the full livestream of this discussion below .
Stacey , thank you so much for joining me .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ m doing well , thank you .
I ’ m ensconced in my dining room in Atlanta , Georgia , and doing my best to socially distance and stay sheltering in place until it truly is safe to go back out .
How prepared do you think the US is right now to hold a presidential election in a pandemic ?
The United States has the capacity to hold an election in a pandemic .
What we lack is the will and the investment .
South Korea , on April 15 , held @ @ @ @ @ @ @ single highest turnout election since the 1990s , and they did it safely .
Every state in America has the capacity for vote-by-mail .
Every state has the ability for in-person early voting and in-person voting on the day of the election .
We simply have to make it safer .
But any argument that we don ’ t have the capacity is wrong .
We were able to vote during the Civil War .
We were able to vote during the 1918 Spanish flu .
There is no excuse for not holding @ @ @ @ @ @ @ do you think states like Georgia are to vote by mail ?
Only 6 percent of Georgians , for example , voted by mail in 2018 .
While only 6 percent may have used it , we saw a dramatic increase .
In fact , we saw the largest increase among African Americans .
My campaign in 2018 sent out 1.6 million vote-by-mail applications .
We followed it up with encouragement , but also education .
There ’ s been a lack of trust in vote-by-mail , particularly from communities of color , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of color is much higher than for the white communities .
In Georgia , we had a specific incident with the current governor , then Secretary of State , who arrested and jailed 12 people for using absentee ballots properly .
They lost their jobs .
They lost their reputations .
And not a single person was convicted .
But that created a dampening effect on the use of absentee ballots .
I wanted to ask you about Wisconsin .
Republicans refused to postpone [ the 2020 primaries ] .
They refused to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and thousands of people were forced to choose between their health and their ballot .
When you saw all that , when you saw the long lines of voters wearing masks , what was your takeaway ?
We knew there was going to be something catastrophic that would happen in 2020 to elections .
I had no idea it would be a pandemic , but we knew that it would happen .
Voter suppression is systemic .
It ’ s built into the process .
What we have to learn from Wisconsin is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ make it work if we start early enough .
What happened in Wisconsin was that the decisions were made in a matter of weeks .
We now have months to prepare .
But we have to remember that for those thousands of people who stood in line , for those who had masks or didn ’ t , and for the poll workers who didn ’ t have adequate equipment , 52 people have already been confirmed with COVID-19 .
That should not happen .
There are already people who don ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ who ’ ve been purged from the voting rolls , or who ’ ve been forced to wait in long lines or whose polling places have been closed .
How concerned are you that the coronavirus is going to add an additional layer of voter suppression ?
What COVID-19 has done is reveal what has been a systemic challenge for most of the 21st century .
But now that more people are seeing how the systems actually work , they ’ re understanding .
The reality is those things existed in 2019 , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ difference is , because of COVID-19 , people are seeing it in real time and they ’ re understanding its impact .
I do not welcome a pandemic , but I think what has happened is that people see what ’ s what ’ s going on .
Luckily , there has been bipartisan support of vote-by-mail , of safer voting , of better instruction .
That bipartisanship has to win out because we can not allow a conservative minority of thought to limit access to democracy and one of the most pivotal @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to ask you about Georgia .
When you see Brian Kemp rushing to reopen the state , when you see him say that he didn ’ t know that coronavirus cases could be asymptomatic , do you just think , I should ’ ve had this job instead ?
I think that the voters of Georgia were robbed of their opportunity to make an informed decision .
I believe that voter suppression stole the voices of thousands of Georgians .
If I were the governor , I would have followed the facts and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ early that asymptomatic people can carry the disease .
I wouldn ’ t have led Georgia to be one of the last states to shut down , and we certainly wouldn ’ t have been one of the first to reopen .
Since the reopening of the state , we ’ ve seen our COVID rate skyrocket by 40 percent .
We still are one of the slowest in testing .
There is a contact tracing program that ’ s getting up and running , but it ’ s woefully behind where it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , this is a perfect example of why I believe voting matters and having the right to choose your leaders matters .
People may have decided not to pick me anyway , but because of voter suppression , we will never know what the choice of the people would have been .
You mentioned voter suppression in Georgia , where there were 214 polling places closed , 53,000 voter registrations put on hold before the election—80 percent from voters of color—and 1.5 million people purged from the rolls .
There were four-hour lines @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you that in 2020 there could be a situation like in Georgia where there ’ s a very close disputed election that go to the Supreme Court ?
I believe that what we saw happen in Wisconsin legitimates any degree of concern about how the Supreme Court is going to handle questions of elections .
If you look at what happened in North Dakota in 2016 , when they refused to enjoin the disenfranchisement of thousands of Native Americans who could not possibly meet the standards .
What we saw happen with Wisconsin @ @ @ @ @ @ @ deep concern .
And let ’ s not forget what happened in 2000 .
We know that the Supreme Court has not proven themselves to be good actors in this .
The 2020 census has also been derailed by the coronavirus .
What do we need to do to get the census back on track ?
I am deeply concerned about the census .
The Census Bureau has done as much as it can .
But we ’ ve got some major challenges .
We know that in rural communities , 6.2 million @ @ @ @ @ @ @ packets that they need .
That includes most of our Native American families .
We know that they ’ ve delayed the counting of nontraditional folks , meaning those who are homeless , those who are living on college campuses , who are living in nursing homes .
Those counts have been delayed until June .
There might be thousands of college students who go uncounted .
And the last major concern I have is that , because we don ’ t have folks in the field knocking on doors , getting the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is going to use a statistical process called “ imputation.
” That means that they ’ re going to look at neighborhoods where people didn ’ t respond , and based on the demographic data of that neighborhood , they ’ re going to impute who else lives there .
Which means minority communities that are already undercounted risk being statistically erased from the narrative of America because we don ’ t have the ability to go out and knock .
Another big issue right now is what ’ s happening to the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you saw the Washington Post article that said Trump is going to name the chief fundraiser for the Republican convention to be postmaster general .
What ’ s your concern about what ’ s happened to the post office ?
The post office is a vital utility in our nation for many communities , especially rural communities .
It is their pharmacy .
It ’ s the only way they get their medication .
In the moment of COVID-19 , it ’ s the way people get their food .
This attempt to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ office is very dangerous and it ’ s directly connected to vote by mail .
We know that vote-by-mail is absolutely essential to certain communities , and we know that if it is expanded , it will likely increase participation in our election .
This is a rancorous , terrible decision that is grounded in his deepest incompetence , but also his meanness .
We should be frightened , but we should also be fighting .
The news is so bleak right now and we ’ ve touched on some pretty heavy topics @ @ @ @ @ @ @ What what keeps you going and optimistic at this time ?
I know what we ’ re capable of as a country .
I ’ m the daughter of two civil rights activists who were activists as teenagers .
My dad was arrested when he was 14 , registering black people to vote in Hattiesburg , Mississippi .
We teased him that my mom was doing the same work , she was just smart enough not to get caught .
They raised us to believe that we have a responsibility .
But more @ @ @ @ @ @ @ possibility .
My great grandmother , her grandparents were slaves .
Her parents were sharecroppers .
In 2018 , I became the first black woman nominated to be governor of a major party in American history .
I don ’ t have the luxury of bleakness because I ’ m a shining example of what is possible .
But my responsibility is not to rest on either the successes or the challenges that I face , but to do the work necessary to make the next generation even more hopeful about what ’ @ @ @ @

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The president’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, sparked a national panic attack on Tuesday when he suggested to Time that he had personal insight into whether or not the 2020 election would take place, leaving room for some doubt. “It’s not my decision to make, so I’m not sure I can commit one way or the other,” he said about holding the November poll. “But right now, that’s the plan.” The elections are run by the states; the president can’t change when they happen. But Kushner’s quote was worrying enough for those who are already vexed about the executive branch using the coronavirus crisis to further impede the right to vote (or, in the worst-case scenario, cancel elections outright). And the comment was so brazen that Kushner himself experienced a rare jolt of self-awareness: He issued a new statement to NBC on Wednesday conceding, “I have not been involved in, nor am I aware of, any discussions about trying to change the date of the presidential election.”
It may have simply been a piece of Kushner puffery, the latest in a long career of self-regard (recently he described the administration’s coronavirus response as a “great success story”), but the collective freakout points to very real concerns over threats to the 2020 vote, as the president ramps up campaign rhetoric against vote-by-mail, and his party attempts to stymie participation in the states.
Recently, our senior reporter Ari Berman sat down (via Zoom, of course) with Stacey Abrams, the former candidate for governor of Georgia, to rank some of the biggest impediments to voting rights across the country and discuss how the pandemic is being weaponized against participation, especially among voters of color. In a wide-ranging chat, which you can hear on this week’s episode of the Mother Jones Podcast, Abrams talks about launching her voting rights initiative, Fair Fight, after her narrow 2018 loss to now-Gov. Brian Kemp; ongoing threats to the 2020 census; Kemp’s response to COVID-19; and the dangerous attempt to suppress voters during the Wisconsin primary in April. “That was a tragedy and a travesty that should not be repeated in a democratized, industrialized nation,” Abrams tells Berman. “We were able to vote during the Civil War, we were able to vote during the Spanish flu of 1918, there is no excuse for not holding our elections in 2020.”
You can listen to the full show, read an edited transcript, or watch the full livestream of this discussion below.
Listen to the latest episode of the Mother Jones Podcast: Subscribe using Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or your favorite podcast app.
Stacey, thank you so much for joining me. How are you doing?
I’m doing well, thank you. I’m ensconced in my dining room in Atlanta, Georgia, and doing my best to socially distance and stay sheltering in place until it truly is safe to go back out.
How prepared do you think the US is right now to hold a presidential election in a pandemic?
The United States has the capacity to hold an election in a pandemic. What we lack is the will and the investment. South Korea, on April 15, held their national election. They held the single highest turnout election since the 1990s, and they did it safely. Every state in America has the capacity for vote-by-mail. Every state has the ability for in-person early voting and in-person voting on the day of the election. We simply have to make it safer. But any argument that we don’t have the capacity is wrong. We were able to vote during the Civil War. We were able to vote during the 1918 Spanish flu. There is no excuse for not holding our elections in 2020.
“We were able to vote during the 1918 Spanish flu. There is no excuse for not holding our elections in 2020.”
How prepared do you think states like Georgia are to vote by mail? Only 6 percent of Georgians, for example, voted by mail in 2018.
While only 6 percent may have used it, we saw a dramatic increase. In fact, we saw the largest increase among African Americans. My campaign in 2018 sent out 1.6 million vote-by-mail applications. We followed it up with encouragement, but also education.
There’s been a lack of trust in vote-by-mail, particularly from communities of color, because most the rejection rate for communities of color is much higher than for the white communities. In Georgia, we had a specific incident with the current governor, then Secretary of State, who arrested and jailed 12 people for using absentee ballots properly. They lost their jobs. They lost their reputations. And not a single person was convicted. But that created a dampening effect on the use of absentee ballots.
I wanted to ask you about Wisconsin. Republicans refused to postpone [the 2020 primaries]. They refused to mail ballots to every registered voter, and thousands of people were forced to choose between their health and their ballot. When you saw all that, when you saw the long lines of voters wearing masks, what was your takeaway?
We knew there was going to be something catastrophic that would happen in 2020 to elections. I had no idea it would be a pandemic, but we knew that it would happen. Voter suppression is systemic. It’s built into the process. What we have to learn from Wisconsin is that we have the capacity to still make it work if we start early enough. What happened in Wisconsin was that the decisions were made in a matter of weeks. We now have months to prepare. But we have to remember that for those thousands of people who stood in line, for those who had masks or didn’t, and for the poll workers who didn’t have adequate equipment, 52 people have already been confirmed with COVID-19. That should not happen.
There are already people who don’t have the IDs required to vote, who’ve been purged from the voting rolls, or who’ve been forced to wait in long lines or whose polling places have been closed. How concerned are you that the coronavirus is going to add an additional layer of voter suppression?
What COVID-19 has done is reveal what has been a systemic challenge for most of the 21st century. But now that more people are seeing how the systems actually work, they’re understanding. The reality is those things existed in 2019, 2016, 2012, 2008. The difference is, because of COVID-19, people are seeing it in real time and they’re understanding its impact.
I do not welcome a pandemic, but I think what has happened is that people see what’s what’s going on. Luckily, there has been bipartisan support of vote-by-mail, of safer voting, of better instruction. That bipartisanship has to win out because we cannot allow a conservative minority of thought to limit access to democracy and one of the most pivotal elections in our lifetimes.
“What COVID-19 has done is reveal what has been a systemic challenge for most of the 21st century.”
I want to ask you about Georgia. When you see Brian Kemp rushing to reopen the state, when you see him say that he didn’t know that coronavirus cases could be asymptomatic, do you just think, I should’ve had this job instead?
I think that the voters of Georgia were robbed of their opportunity to make an informed decision. I believe that voter suppression stole the voices of thousands of Georgians. If I were the governor, I would have followed the facts and the science. I would have known early that asymptomatic people can carry the disease. I wouldn’t have led Georgia to be one of the last states to shut down, and we certainly wouldn’t have been one of the first to reopen. Since the reopening of the state, we’ve seen our COVID rate skyrocket by 40 percent. We still are one of the slowest in testing. There is a contact tracing program that’s getting up and running, but it’s woefully behind where it should be. And so, yes, this is a perfect example of why I believe voting matters and having the right to choose your leaders matters. People may have decided not to pick me anyway, but because of voter suppression, we will never know what the choice of the people would have been.
You mentioned voter suppression in Georgia, where there were 214 polling places closed, 53,000 voter registrations put on hold before the election—80 percent from voters of color—and 1.5 million people purged from the rolls. There were four-hour lines in black neighborhoods. How concerned are you that in 2020 there could be a situation like in Georgia where there’s a very close disputed election that go to the Supreme Court?
I believe that what we saw happen in Wisconsin legitimates any degree of concern about how the Supreme Court is going to handle questions of elections. If you look at what happened in North Dakota in 2016, when they refused to enjoin the disenfranchisement of thousands of Native Americans who could not possibly meet the standards. What we saw happen with Wisconsin, that has created a through-line of deep concern. And let’s not forget what happened in 2000. We know that the Supreme Court has not proven themselves to be good actors in this.
The 2020 census has also been derailed by the coronavirus. What do we need to do to get the census back on track?
I am deeply concerned about the census. The Census Bureau has done as much as it can. But we’ve got some major challenges. We know that in rural communities, 6.2 million people have not received the hand-delivered census packets that they need. That includes most of our Native American families. We know that they’ve delayed the counting of nontraditional folks, meaning those who are homeless, those who are living on college campuses, who are living in nursing homes. Those counts have been delayed until June. There might be thousands of college students who go uncounted. And the last major concern I have is that, because we don’t have folks in the field knocking on doors, getting the response rates up, the Census Bureau is going to use a statistical process called “imputation.” That means that they’re going to look at neighborhoods where people didn’t respond, and based on the demographic data of that neighborhood, they’re going to impute who else lives there. Which means minority communities that are already undercounted risk being statistically erased from the narrative of America because we don’t have the ability to go out and knock.
“Minority communities that are already undercounted risk being statistically erased from the narrative of America.”
Another big issue right now is what’s happening to the postal service. I’m sure you saw the Washington Post article that said Trump is going to name the chief fundraiser for the Republican convention to be postmaster general. What’s your concern about what’s happened to the post office?
The post office is a vital utility in our nation for many communities, especially rural communities. It is their pharmacy. It’s the only way they get their medication. In the moment of COVID-19, it’s the way people get their food. This attempt to not only privatize but politicize the post office is very dangerous and it’s directly connected to vote by mail. We know that vote-by-mail is absolutely essential to certain communities, and we know that if it is expanded, it will likely increase participation in our election. This is a rancorous, terrible decision that is grounded in his deepest incompetence, but also his meanness. We should be frightened, but we should also be fighting.
The news is so bleak right now and we’ve touched on some pretty heavy topics. What are you hopeful about? What what keeps you going and optimistic at this time?
I know what we’re capable of as a country. I’m the daughter of two civil rights activists who were activists as teenagers. My dad was arrested when he was 14, registering black people to vote in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. We teased him that my mom was doing the same work, she was just smart enough not to get caught. They raised us to believe that we have a responsibility. But more importantly, that we have opportunity and possibility. My great grandmother, her grandparents were slaves. Her parents were sharecroppers. In 2018, I became the first black woman nominated to be governor of a major party in American history. I don’t have the luxury of bleakness because I’m a shining example of what is possible. But my responsibility is not to rest on either the successes or the challenges that I face, but to do the work necessary to make the next generation even more hopeful about what’s to come.
Watch the full live-streamed conversation below:


motherjones--2020-05-14--How to Take Back a Congressional District During a Pandemic

Like Merrick Garland , who then-president Barack Obama nominated to serve on the Supreme Court , Pat Timmons-Goodson was the perfect appointee for the judicial position she did not receive .
Her familiarity with North Carolina ’ s courts went back to 1981 when she began her three-decade legal career as an assistant district attorney in Cumberland County , home to Fort Bragg and Pope Field .
Before being nominated in 2016 to be a district judge on the US District Court for the Eastern District of North Carolina , Timmons-Goodson was a justice on the state ’ s supreme @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on Civil Rights .
As with the US Supreme Court , federal judges must be confirmed by Congress , which Republicans controlled at the time of the nomination .
And , as with their approach to the nomination of Merrick Garland , Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell ( R-Kentucky ) wasn ’ t about to play a part in broadening Democratic control of the courts by conducting confirmation hearings for the nominees .
So she waited out the final year of the Obama presidency in purgatory , until Donald Trump ’ s inauguration @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , Timmons-Goodson hopes to move from the judicial to the legislative branch of government by running for North Carolina ’ s 8th congressional district this November .
She hopes to dislodge Richard Hudson ( R-NC ) , a moderate Republican who ’ s comfortably held the seat since his victory in 2012 .
In the years leading up to Hudson ’ s tenure , the seat was held be two officials dogged by scandal .
Democrat Larry Kissell , who won the seat in 2008 with the support of labor unions , lost @ @ @ @ @ @ @ healthcare reform bill in 2010—ultimately causing them to run an independent candidate against him .
More recently , Robin Hayes , a Republican who held the seat before Kissell , resigned as head of the state ’ s Republican party after a corruption indictment in April 2019 .
In September 2019 the district changed when a panel of three judges ruled that partisan gerrymandering had to stop , and the congressional map was redrawn .
The result was that the less conservative Cumberland County—where Timmons-Goodson spent much of her childhood and cut her @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from Duke University School of Law—was folded into the newly created district .
Timmons-Goodson announced her candidacy in December , but three months later the novel coronavirus epidemic made traditional campaigning impossible .
Mother Jones caught up with her to talk about her shift into politics , how to campaign when there ’ s an epidemic , and how COVID-19 has made the issues already facing the 8th district more visible than ever .
As she wrote in a recent op-ed in the Fayetteville Observer , “ I reminded my mother that many @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a cold , African Americans catch pneumonia.
’ COVID-19 has shown that saying still holds true.
” How has this pandemic altered the day-to-day operations of your campaign ?
The manner in which we go about campaigning has changed , but the goal hasn ’ t .
The goal has always been and will continue to be communicating with our voters and our supporters , and listening to what ’ s on their mind , and for us to communicate what our priorities are and how we would plan to serve them in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ days , you would go out to an event and physically be present in the same room with someone , where you can slap your supporter or friend on the back , shake their hand , kiss their baby .
We ’ re unable to do that .
But the goal is the same .
So we ’ re now on the telephone , or we ’ re on Zoom .
I ’ ve tried to set up a location that , when I ’ m there , my mind is in the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ t quite achieved that yet .
Maybe the dining room today if the Zoom meeting is a little more formal .
If I ’ m just talking and working with staff , I may be in the guest room in a real comfortable chair with my my feet up .
In your op-ed you write about how Black and brown lives are disproportionately affected by this pandemic .
With Black people comprising nearly a quarter of the population in your district , how has this crisis played out locally ?
I hear that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the home and are no longer working have their children at home , and they understand just how huge a role the school day has played , not only in the lives of children by educating them , but also supervising and feeding them .
They ’ re seeing how that food bill increases mightily with the children being home .
We are seeing more food shortages , and we see more folks calling for help .
I ’ m sad to say that I ’ ve had a number of friends @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the losses have been directly related to the virus , but the virus has affected the way that everyone is able to grieve and say goodbye to their loved ones .
For example , two of my friends have lost husbands , and they were military veterans .
They ’ re not having the kind of funeral services that they would have had .
So they ’ re delaying the memorial service or a goodbye that would be more in keeping with the way families grieve .
At Fort Bragg , if the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the cemetery , the family can ’ t come .
The military honors that wouldn ’ t normally go with the funeral are not taking place .
I ’ m hearing that the virus is affecting us in ways that we never would have imagined at all .
All of the ways are heart-wrenching .
How would you describe the 8th District and the region around it to someone who ’ s never been there before ?
In my mind , it ’ s so like the south .
There is a warmth @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , ” if there is such a word .
There is a reliance on relationships and on people and on families .
In this part of North Carolina and in this part of the country , you don ’ t have to be related by blood to be considered family and to be treated as family .
It ’ s mostly suburban , demographically diverse , made up mostly of military and working middle-class communities .
Many of those communities have been hit hard by the closing of textile mills .
At one @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of Cannon Mills , which was the largest producer of textiles in the world , before manufacturing went out of the country .
Working middle class communities trying to support their families .
I know you were a child in this part of North Carolina .
How has the area changed ?
In the eastern part there ’ s Fort Bragg , and Pope Air Force Base , so you have a strong military presence that plays a large role in the economy .
As you move further west , you get into @ @ @ @ @ @ @ heavily populated .
Small towns , small communities that , like other places in this nation , have really taken a hit .
Much of the manufacturing is long gone , and it ’ s not going to return unless there is a real concerted effort to bring it back .
We ’ ve got to find a way to have some kind of economic engine to support them or else they literally are going to wither up and die .
As I ’ ve looked at the discussions about the shortages of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I was like , “ Daggonit , that could have been manufactured right here in our district.
” What are the biggest policy changes that are needed here right now ?
I ’ m going to lead with healthcare , because I was talking about health care before the pandemic .
And that ’ s at the heart of everything .
You can ’ t work very well , you can ’ t get an education , you can ’ t function if your health is impaired or if you ’ re not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ rich for folks to be denied something so basic .
For me , it ’ s just unconscionable that we would have citizens that do not have proper healthcare .
I ’ m the product of a military family .
My father was a sergeant in the United States Army .
That ’ s how it is that we came to settle in Fayetteville .
Dad medically retired from the army .
I ’ d been getting government healthcare the whole time I was raised , because that ’ s what was provided @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And it worked , so that ’ s where I began my frame of reference .
At what point did you become politically conscious ?
I would say fairly early on .
I ’ m the oldest of six .
I was always around adults and always given a good bit of responsibility .
My ears would always pick up when grown people were talking .
I would hear family members and friends talking about having a situation where they were unsure just what to do .
And eventually somebody would say , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ lawyer.
” I got in my young head that that ’ s the folks who can get things done .
I wanted to be like that .
I ’ ve grown to understand that there are a lot of professions that help people , but I identified the legal profession early on , as a preteen .
And in the mid-60s , when I saw what was going on , I thought , that I wanted to be a part of it .
You have had a long , illustrious career in civic @ @ @ @ @ @ @ North Carolina , I wonder if you ’ ve ever worked with Reverend William Barber , and what that was like ?
My path did not cross with him until I was in the judiciary of North Carolina on the Court of Appeals .
North Carolina elects all of their judges .
That ’ s when I met Reverend Barber .
And as our campaign went around the state , I worshipped at his church .
I was involved with the NAACP , attending meetings , and he was the president at that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so I ’ ve interacted with him over the years .
For me , he represents an individual that , while working as hard as humanly possible for a cause and a people—the poor , the disenfranchised , the vulnerable—he ’ s still managed to keep his focus on the individual .
So it ’ s about helping the masses , but at the same time it ’ s about the individual .
He ’ s an incredible human being .
You ’ ve worked on the US Commission on Civil Rights since @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from that form of advocacy work to running for office ?
I realized shortly after joining the commission that it didn ’ t matter how great the policy was , or how much the change was needed .
It didn ’ t matter how many people would be favorably impacted by a particular policy .
Unless you had a legislator that would file the legislation , nurture it , move it along , it did not happen .
That ’ s when I realized that I needed to do more .
Our citizens @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that offer themselves , so I said , “ Well .
I ’ ll offer myself and we ’ ll see what they say.
” What ’ s a past experience , perhaps an unexpected one , that ’ s helped prepare you to run for this office ?
I think that it would be seeking a judicial appointment that I did not receive .
I received a call afterwards from a judge who I really admired , and he said , “ Pat , I understand you didn ’ t get that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not stop .
Just because things don ’ t come when we want them or the way that we want them does not mean that they will not come .
This time can be used by you to even better prepare yourself for further service .
And so you just hang in there.
” I have always appreciated that .
You just keep on working at it , and things will work out .
The district lines were redrawn in a way that has brought some benefit to the Democrats .
But it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ greatest challenges here to winning ?
The greatest challenge to winning will be having the means of communicating who I am and my message .
I believe that the people of this district want something to be done , and that something may vary depending upon who is answering the question .
But I believe that they are sick and tired—Republicans and Democrats—of the gridlock that is in Washington .
Doggone it , do something !
You can ’ t do something if you are so deeply entrenched in your thinking that you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ other side .
The status quo is not going to change unless there is some meeting of the minds , some willingness to give up a little something in order to get something .
I am still very much a judge in terms of my personality and my way of thinking .
I look at both sides of the issue , I can ’ t help it .
But I ’ m gon na listen to what you have to say , and I hope you ’ ll listen to what I have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ listen , if I will truly listen , I believe that we ’ ll be able to find some common ground somewhere so that we will move away from the status quo .
This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity .

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Like Merrick Garland, who then-president Barack Obama nominated to serve on the Supreme Court, Pat Timmons-Goodson was the perfect appointee for the judicial position she did not receive. Her familiarity with North Carolina’s courts went back to 1981 when she began her three-decade legal career as an assistant district attorney in Cumberland County, home to Fort Bragg and Pope Field. Before being nominated in 2016 to be a district judge on the US District Court for the Eastern District of North Carolina, Timmons-Goodson was a justice on the state’s supreme court and vice chair of the US Commission on Civil Rights.
As with the US Supreme Court, federal judges must be confirmed by Congress, which Republicans controlled at the time of the nomination. And, as with their approach to the nomination of Merrick Garland, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Kentucky) wasn’t about to play a part in broadening Democratic control of the courts by conducting confirmation hearings for the nominees. So she waited out the final year of the Obama presidency in purgatory, until Donald Trump’s inauguration, when her nomination expired.
Now, Timmons-Goodson hopes to move from the judicial to the legislative branch of government by running for North Carolina’s 8th congressional district this November. She hopes to dislodge Richard Hudson (R-NC), a moderate Republican who’s comfortably held the seat since his victory in 2012. In the years leading up to Hudson’s tenure, the seat was held be two officials dogged by scandal. Democrat Larry Kissell, who won the seat in 2008 with the support of labor unions, lost their backing when he voted against a healthcare reform bill in 2010—ultimately causing them to run an independent candidate against him. More recently, Robin Hayes, a Republican who held the seat before Kissell, resigned as head of the state’s Republican party after a corruption indictment in April 2019.
In September 2019 the district changed when a panel of three judges ruled that partisan gerrymandering had to stop, and the congressional map was redrawn. The result was that the less conservative Cumberland County—where Timmons-Goodson spent much of her childhood and cut her teeth as a young attorney after graduating from the University of North Carolina School of Law—was folded into the newly created district.
Timmons-Goodson announced her candidacy in December, but three months later the novel coronavirus epidemic made traditional campaigning impossible. Mother Jones caught up with her to talk about her shift into politics, how to campaign when there’s an epidemic, and how COVID-19 has made the issues already facing the 8th district more visible than ever. As she wrote in a recent op-ed in the Fayetteville Observer, “I reminded my mother that many have said, ‘When America catches a cold, African Americans catch pneumonia.’ COVID-19 has shown that saying still holds true.”
How has this pandemic altered the day-to-day operations of your campaign?
The manner in which we go about campaigning has changed, but the goal hasn’t. The goal has always been and will continue to be communicating with our voters and our supporters, and listening to what’s on their mind, and for us to communicate what our priorities are and how we would plan to serve them in Washington. Back in the good old days, you would go out to an event and physically be present in the same room with someone, where you can slap your supporter or friend on the back, shake their hand, kiss their baby. We’re unable to do that. But the goal is the same. So we’re now on the telephone, or we’re on Zoom. I’ve tried to set up a location that, when I’m there, my mind is in the work mode, but still haven’t quite achieved that yet. Maybe the dining room today if the Zoom meeting is a little more formal. If I’m just talking and working with staff, I may be in the guest room in a real comfortable chair with my my feet up.
In your op-ed you write about how Black and brown lives are disproportionately affected by this pandemic. With Black people comprising nearly a quarter of the population in your district, how has this crisis played out locally?
I hear that parents who [usually] work outside of the home and are no longer working have their children at home, and they understand just how huge a role the school day has played, not only in the lives of children by educating them, but also supervising and feeding them. They’re seeing how that food bill increases mightily with the children being home. We are seeing more food shortages, and we see more folks calling for help.
I’m sad to say that I’ve had a number of friends lose their spouses. A few of the losses have been directly related to the virus, but the virus has affected the way that everyone is able to grieve and say goodbye to their loved ones. For example, two of my friends have lost husbands, and they were military veterans. They’re not having the kind of funeral services that they would have had. So they’re delaying the memorial service or a goodbye that would be more in keeping with the way families grieve. At Fort Bragg, if the person is going to be buried at the cemetery, the family can’t come. The military honors that wouldn’t normally go with the funeral are not taking place. I’m hearing that the virus is affecting us in ways that we never would have imagined at all. All of the ways are heart-wrenching.
How would you describe the 8th District and the region around it to someone who’s never been there before?
In my mind, it’s so like the south. There is a warmth there. There is a “wholiness,” if there is such a word. There is a reliance on relationships and on people and on families. In this part of North Carolina and in this part of the country, you don’t have to be related by blood to be considered family and to be treated as family.
It’s mostly suburban, demographically diverse, made up mostly of military and working middle-class communities. Many of those communities have been hit hard by the closing of textile mills. At one time, Cabarrus County was the home of Cannon Mills, which was the largest producer of textiles in the world, before manufacturing went out of the country. Working middle class communities trying to support their families.
I know you were a child in this part of North Carolina. How has the area changed?
In the eastern part there’s Fort Bragg, and Pope Air Force Base, so you have a strong military presence that plays a large role in the economy. As you move further west, you get into counties and areas that are not as heavily populated. Small towns, small communities that, like other places in this nation, have really taken a hit. Much of the manufacturing is long gone, and it’s not going to return unless there is a real concerted effort to bring it back. We’ve got to find a way to have some kind of economic engine to support them or else they literally are going to wither up and die. As I’ve looked at the discussions about the shortages of certain garments and personal protective equipment, I was like, “Daggonit, that could have been manufactured right here in our district.”
What are the biggest policy changes that are needed here right now?
I’m going to lead with healthcare, because I was talking about health care before the pandemic. And that’s at the heart of everything. You can’t work very well, you can’t get an education, you can’t function if your health is impaired or if you’re not healthy. This country is just too rich for folks to be denied something so basic. For me, it’s just unconscionable that we would have citizens that do not have proper healthcare.
“For me, it’s just unconscionable that we would have citizens that do not have proper healthcare.”
I’m the product of a military family. My father was a sergeant in the United States Army. That’s how it is that we came to settle in Fayetteville. Dad medically retired from the army. I’d been getting government healthcare the whole time I was raised, because that’s what was provided for our military servicemen and women. And it worked, so that’s where I began my frame of reference.
At what point did you become politically conscious?
I would say fairly early on. I’m the oldest of six. I was always around adults and always given a good bit of responsibility. My ears would always pick up when grown people were talking. I would hear family members and friends talking about having a situation where they were unsure just what to do. And eventually somebody would say, “You need to talk to a lawyer.”
I got in my young head that that’s the folks who can get things done. I wanted to be like that. I’ve grown to understand that there are a lot of professions that help people, but I identified the legal profession early on, as a preteen. And in the mid-60s, when I saw what was going on, I thought, that I wanted to be a part of it.
You have had a long, illustrious career in civic service. Having spent that career in North Carolina, I wonder if you’ve ever worked with Reverend William Barber, and what that was like?
My path did not cross with him until I was in the judiciary of North Carolina on the Court of Appeals. North Carolina elects all of their judges. That’s when I met Reverend Barber. And as our campaign went around the state, I worshipped at his church. I was involved with the NAACP, attending meetings, and he was the president at that time, of the state NAACP, so I’ve interacted with him over the years. For me, he represents an individual that, while working as hard as humanly possible for a cause and a people—the poor, the disenfranchised, the vulnerable—he’s still managed to keep his focus on the individual. So it’s about helping the masses, but at the same time it’s about the individual. He’s an incredible human being.
You’ve worked on the US Commission on Civil Rights since since 2014. Why would you shift from that form of advocacy work to running for office?
I realized shortly after joining the commission that it didn’t matter how great the policy was, or how much the change was needed. It didn’t matter how many people would be favorably impacted by a particular policy. Unless you had a legislator that would file the legislation, nurture it, move it along, it did not happen. That’s when I realized that I needed to do more. Our citizens can only select their leaders from those that offer themselves, so I said, “Well. I’ll offer myself and we’ll see what they say.”
What’s a past experience, perhaps an unexpected one, that’s helped prepare you to run for this office?
I think that it would be seeking a judicial appointment that I did not receive. I received a call afterwards from a judge who I really admired, and he said, “Pat, I understand you didn’t get that appointment. I hope that you will not stop. Just because things don’t come when we want them or the way that we want them does not mean that they will not come. This time can be used by you to even better prepare yourself for further service. And so you just hang in there.” I have always appreciated that. You just keep on working at it, and things will work out.
The district lines were redrawn in a way that has brought some benefit to the Democrats. But it still leans Republican. What are the greatest challenges here to winning?
The greatest challenge to winning will be having the means of communicating who I am and my message. I believe that the people of this district want something to be done, and that something may vary depending upon who is answering the question. But I believe that they are sick and tired—Republicans and Democrats—of the gridlock that is in Washington. Doggone it, do something! You can’t do something if you are so deeply entrenched in your thinking that you’re unwilling to listen to the other side. The status quo is not going to change unless there is some meeting of the minds, some willingness to give up a little something in order to get something.
I am still very much a judge in terms of my personality and my way of thinking. I look at both sides of the issue, I can’t help it. But I’m gonna listen to what you have to say, and I hope you’ll listen to what I have to say. If you will truly listen, if I will truly listen, I believe that we’ll be able to find some common ground somewhere so that we will move away from the status quo.
This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.