labourlist--2020-05-22--Put first things first. Let Brexit take a back seat during the Covid-19 crisis

Let ’ s be fair .
Any Prime Minister , any government of any party , would be struggling to deal with Covid-19 crisis .
Clement Attlee , Harold Wilson , Tony Blair , Gordon Brown and the many able ministers they led would have been challenged by the health and social care crisis that we are now facing , and the consequent economic shock that is likely to affect us for years to come .
And while some ministers have impressed more than others , the overall picture is of a government running to stand still .
The daily @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in progress in so many areas .
There has been progress , all too often over-egged for my liking , but it is happening against the background of a still mounting death toll , and persistent complaints about a lack of personal protective equipment and difficulties in getting testing done .
We are a long way from a system of tracking and tracing .
Surely Boris Johnson and his team owe it to our public service heroes to spend every working minute on tackling this many-head crisis .
As I see it , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ That means an extension to Brexit negotiations is the only sane course .
It is in the national interest , and polling shows it is supported by voters .
This is emphatically not a call to thwart Brexit .
Brexit will happen .
The government has a double mandate : from the 2016 referendum and the 2019 general election , however much that depresses some of us .
What I ’ m saying is that it is a betrayal of hundreds of thousands of heroic public servants to go out and applaud them @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be sidetracked by an ideological drive to conclude negotiations with the EU by the end of the year .
Refusing to seek an extension risks doing both jobs – tackling the crisis and making a success of the EU negotiations – badly .
And it is already pretty clear that a fixation with Brexit has damaged the fight against the virus .
Johnson and his ministers had their eyes off the ball as they celebrated our formal departure from the EU on January 31st .
A devastating Sunday Times report revealed : “ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ virus , calls to order protective gear were ignored and scientists ’ warnings fell on deaf ears .
Failings in February may have cost thousands of lives.
” Johnson and Michael Gove and were co-leaders of the Brexit campaign and according to a Sunday Times source , preparations for a no-deal Brexit “ sucked all the blood out of pandemic planning ” .
Now the business editor of the Daily Telegraph Jeremy Warner has written that “ as things stand , we are heading for a train crash and the re-emergence of our @ @ @ @ @ @ @ or ‘ cliff edge ’ Brexit ” .
He alleged that an extension had been all but agreed at official level , “ but then Dominic Cummings , the Prime Minister ’ s chief adviser , returned and the plan , concocted by underlings while he and Johnson were laid out on their sick beds , was scuppered ” .
This is putting ideology ahead of the national interest .
It is shocking that Johnson and his ministers don ’ t seem to have learned the lesson .
According to the Sunday Times @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to deal with the coronavirus crisis have been sent back to work , full time , on ‘ no-deal ’ preparations .
This ideological drive is at odds with the public mood .
A new poll shows that , overall , two thirds of people from all political parties are in favour of a delay ; strikingly , just under half of Leave voters back an extension to the transition period .
Of those Leave voters who want a delay , 57 % said the government should extend the period by up to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it should be extended indefinitely .
The polling was commissioned by the cross-party , pro-EU campaign group Best for Britain and Hope not Hate – but carried out by Focaldata , a company that worked for the Conservatives in the general election .
There is , of course , a compelling economic argument to delay Brexit in order to avoid a ‘ no-deal ’ or ‘ bad-deal ’ Brexit that will do further damage to the economy .
And that is the argument for an extension that has resonated most strongly with me @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in businesses up and down the country – until now .
But in fact it has become clear in recent weeks that there is an even stronger argument for delaying Brexit : to put first things first , and dedicate every ounce of human and material resource in this country and across Europe to tackling the Covid-19 crisis before we even think about negotiating the terms of a Brexit deal .

Let’s be fair. Any Prime Minister, any government of any party, would be struggling to deal with Covid-19 crisis. Clement Attlee, Harold Wilson, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and the many able ministers they led would have been challenged by the health and social care crisis that we are now facing, and the consequent economic shock that is likely to affect us for years to come. And while some ministers have impressed more than others, the overall picture is of a government running to stand still. The daily Downing Street briefings are reports of work in progress in so many areas.
There has been progress, all too often over-egged for my liking, but it is happening against the background of a still mounting death toll, and persistent complaints about a lack of personal protective equipment and difficulties in getting testing done. We are a long way from a system of tracking and tracing. Surely Boris Johnson and his team owe it to our public service heroes to spend every working minute on tackling this many-head crisis. As I see it, they should put first things first.
That means an extension to Brexit negotiations is the only sane course. It is in the national interest, and polling shows it is supported by voters. This is emphatically not a call to thwart Brexit. Brexit will happen. The government has a double mandate: from the 2016 referendum and the 2019 general election, however much that depresses some of us.
What I’m saying is that it is a betrayal of hundreds of thousands of heroic public servants to go out and applaud them on a Thursday evening, then to be sidetracked by an ideological drive to conclude negotiations with the EU by the end of the year. Refusing to seek an extension risks doing both jobs – tackling the crisis and making a success of the EU negotiations – badly. And it is already pretty clear that a fixation with Brexit has damaged the fight against the virus.
Johnson and his ministers had their eyes off the ball as they celebrated our formal departure from the EU on January 31st. A devastating Sunday Times report revealed: “Johnson skipped five COBRA meetings on the virus, calls to order protective gear were ignored and scientists’ warnings fell on deaf ears. Failings in February may have cost thousands of lives.” Johnson and Michael Gove and were co-leaders of the Brexit campaign and according to a Sunday Times source, preparations for a no-deal Brexit “sucked all the blood out of pandemic planning”.
Now the business editor of the Daily Telegraph Jeremy Warner has written that “as things stand, we are heading for a train crash and the re-emergence of our old friend – the ‘no-deal’ or ‘cliff edge’ Brexit”. He alleged that an extension had been all but agreed at official level, “but then Dominic Cummings, the Prime Minister’s chief adviser, returned and the plan, concocted by underlings while he and Johnson were laid out on their sick beds, was scuppered”. This is putting ideology ahead of the national interest. It is shocking that Johnson and his ministers don’t seem to have learned the lesson. According to the Sunday Times, civil servants who had been moved to deal with the coronavirus crisis have been sent back to work, full time, on ‘no-deal’ preparations.
This ideological drive is at odds with the public mood. A new poll shows that, overall, two thirds of people from all political parties are in favour of a delay; strikingly, just under half of Leave voters back an extension to the transition period. Of those Leave voters who want a delay, 57% said the government should extend the period by up to a year, while 43% said it should be extended indefinitely. The polling was commissioned by the cross-party, pro-EU campaign group Best for Britain and Hope not Hate – but carried out by Focaldata, a company that worked for the Conservatives in the general election.
There is, of course, a compelling economic argument to delay Brexit in order to avoid a ‘no-deal’ or ‘bad-deal’ Brexit that will do further damage to the economy. And that is the argument for an extension that has resonated most strongly with me and my members – Labour Party members in businesses up and down the country – until now. But in fact it has become clear in recent weeks that there is an even stronger argument for delaying Brexit: to put first things first, and dedicate every ounce of human and material resource in this country and across Europe to tackling the Covid-19 crisis before we even think about negotiating the terms of a Brexit deal.


labourlist--2020-05-23--If Labour is truly for the many, we need to speak to the many

From the 2017 election campaign to the devastating result in 2019 , one of the Labour Party ’ s key messages has been ‘ for the many , not the few ’ .
The policies of the most recent two manifestos undeniably contained a vast swathe of policies designed to emancipate and empower the many in society .
So , beyond Brexit and the leadership , why did the electorate reject Labour so strongly in the 2019 election ?
While there was an undeniable policy overload – whether this is the fault of the manifesto or of how it was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I believe it was the way our policies related to one another that truly let us down .
Quite simply , the 2019 manifesto was a radical document that would have bettered the lives of the majority of citizens , but unfortunately it categorised its citizens and failed to make links across society .
Take the nationalisation of broadband , one of the headline policies of the manifesto and one of the biggest policy announcements of the campaign .
This was an incredibly emancipatory policy : it would have allowed people to work @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and would have led to an improvement in the quality of broadband speed in parts of the country that don ’ t currently benefit from full-fibre broadband .
Why wasn ’ t it a vote winner ?
Because Labour did not consider how to present the policy as beneficial to the entire country .
Plenty of its promotion was on social media , and focused on uses of broadband such as streaming television programmes – thereby targeting young , tech-savvy voters .
In our world of social media algorithms , young people @ @ @ @ @ @ @ were already more likely to vote Labour .
We were preaching to the converted .
Labour also focused on how this policy would make working from home easier – something we ’ re all learning the hard way now .
But this mainly appealed to those with jobs that allowed them to work from home : the metropolitan professionals we picked up in 2017 .
It was important to retain these new voters , but we should have been focused on retaining the lifelong Labour voters who switched to the Tories last December @ @ @ @ @ @ @ like with much else in the manifesto , Labour did not clearly explain how nationalised broadband would benefit the majority of society .
The closest we got was the fact that it would be one less bill to pay .
But with the flak the party was ( wrongly ) facing on tax rises , how was that meant to cut through ?
There were countless policies that would have benefitted the majority but were not presented as such .
Instead , we were presented with certain policies for certain groups in society @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the electorate .
Raising the minimum wage , free bus travel for under-25s , abolishing the charitable status of private schools and tuition fees – all of these policies and more would have been good for the many .
By framing our policies around the groups they would most directly affect – raising the minimum wage at the low-paid , abolishing tuition fees at students , and so on – we failed to unify the electorate and present our manifesto as a blueprint for a better society for all .
We let ourselves @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that we had created a whole host of policies with an end goal of improving certain elements of certain peoples ’ lives , rather than a manifesto that would have changed Britain for the better .
What do we need to do to create a collective identity ?
The first thing is to talk to the electorate as a whole .
It is right that we recognise the different experiences of different groups in Britain , and that we acknowledge that life is harder for some and easier for others .
But if @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to patch up elements of peoples ’ lives without explaining how these policies , combined , can be the foundation for a fairer and more equal society , then we are doomed to opposition .
The Conservatives unify the electorate by focusing on liberty .
They claim that , when they ’ re in charge , everybody has the freedom to succeed if they choose to do so .
We need to relentlessly challenge this idea in parliament and on the doorstep .
We need to speak with total clarity to prove that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ truly emancipatory , far more than a deregulating Conservative government ever will be .
The majority of Britain needs a Labour government – we failed to win over those who would most benefit from this because we didn ’ t articulate an overall vision for a better society .
We targeted our voters too specifically and didn ’ t create a collectivist spirit within the electorate .
Labour ’ s 2019 manifesto had the potential to lay the foundation for an inter-generational , inter-class , multi-racial movement , which could have begun to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the next four years , we must speak to the electorate as a whole and illustrate just how liberating a Labour government would be , how our policies would give Britain the genuine freedom to live well and happily .
It is only by speaking to the nation collectively that we stand a chance of winning in 2024 .

From the 2017 election campaign to the devastating result in 2019, one of the Labour Party’s key messages has been ‘for the many, not the few’. The policies of the most recent two manifestos undeniably contained a vast swathe of policies designed to emancipate and empower the many in society. So, beyond Brexit and the leadership, why did the electorate reject Labour so strongly in the 2019 election?
While there was an undeniable policy overload – whether this is the fault of the manifesto or of how it was reported and presented is another question – I believe it was the way our policies related to one another that truly let us down. Quite simply, the 2019 manifesto was a radical document that would have bettered the lives of the majority of citizens, but unfortunately it categorised its citizens and failed to make links across society.
Take the nationalisation of broadband, one of the headline policies of the manifesto and one of the biggest policy announcements of the campaign. This was an incredibly emancipatory policy: it would have allowed people to work from home more easily, reduced bills, and would have led to an improvement in the quality of broadband speed in parts of the country that don’t currently benefit from full-fibre broadband.
Why wasn’t it a vote winner? Because Labour did not consider how to present the policy as beneficial to the entire country. Plenty of its promotion was on social media, and focused on uses of broadband such as streaming television programmes – thereby targeting young, tech-savvy voters. In our world of social media algorithms, young people who saw this advert on social media were already more likely to vote Labour. We were preaching to the converted.
Labour also focused on how this policy would make working from home easier – something we’re all learning the hard way now. But this mainly appealed to those with jobs that allowed them to work from home: the metropolitan professionals we picked up in 2017. It was important to retain these new voters, but we should have been focused on retaining the lifelong Labour voters who switched to the Tories last December.
The point here is that, like with much else in the manifesto, Labour did not clearly explain how nationalised broadband would benefit the majority of society. The closest we got was the fact that it would be one less bill to pay. But with the flak the party was (wrongly) facing on tax rises, how was that meant to cut through?
There were countless policies that would have benefitted the majority but were not presented as such. Instead, we were presented with certain policies for certain groups in society, thus dividing our voter base and the electorate. Raising the minimum wage, free bus travel for under-25s, abolishing the charitable status of private schools and tuition fees – all of these policies and more would have been good for the many.
By framing our policies around the groups they would most directly affect – raising the minimum wage at the low-paid, abolishing tuition fees at students, and so on – we failed to unify the electorate and present our manifesto as a blueprint for a better society for all. We let ourselves down by allowing the public to think that we had created a whole host of policies with an end goal of improving certain elements of certain peoples’ lives, rather than a manifesto that would have changed Britain for the better.
What do we need to do to create a collective identity? The first thing is to talk to the electorate as a whole. It is right that we recognise the different experiences of different groups in Britain, and that we acknowledge that life is harder for some and easier for others. But if we present our policies as band-aids designed to patch up elements of peoples’ lives without explaining how these policies, combined, can be the foundation for a fairer and more equal society, then we are doomed to opposition.
The Conservatives unify the electorate by focusing on liberty. They claim that, when they’re in charge, everybody has the freedom to succeed if they choose to do so. We need to relentlessly challenge this idea in parliament and on the doorstep. We need to speak with total clarity to prove that the policies of a Labour government are truly emancipatory, far more than a deregulating Conservative government ever will be.
The majority of Britain needs a Labour government – we failed to win over those who would most benefit from this because we didn’t articulate an overall vision for a better society. We targeted our voters too specifically and didn’t create a collectivist spirit within the electorate. Labour’s 2019 manifesto had the potential to lay the foundation for an inter-generational, inter-class, multi-racial movement, which could have begun to transform Britain.
Now, and over the next four years, we must speak to the electorate as a whole and illustrate just how liberating a Labour government would be, how our policies would give Britain the genuine freedom to live well and happily. It is only by speaking to the nation collectively that we stand a chance of winning in 2024.


labourlist--2020-05-23--Labour calls for urgent inquiry into Cummings 260-mile lockdown trip

The Labour Party has called for an urgent inquiry into the 260-mile trip from London to Durham undertaken by the Prime Minister ’ s senior adviser Dominic Cummings during the coronavirus lockdown .
It was revealed by The Mirror and The Guardian on Friday evening that Cummings travelled from London to Durham with his wife , who had coronavirus symptoms , and their child , while the government advised people to “ stay at home ” .
According to official medical advice , members of the public should self-isolate at home for seven days when Covid-19 symptoms begin and household @ @ @ @ @ @ @ At the latest coronavirus press conference , Dr Jenny Harries said that the guidance advises : “ If you ’ re symptomatic , stay at home , take yourself out of society with your family and stay there unless there is an extreme risk to life ” .
But cabinet ministers including Dominic Raab , Matt Hancock , Rishi Sunak , Michael Gove and Suella Braverman have come out in defence of Cummings .
Grant Shapps said Boris Johnson has also offered his “ full support ” .
In a letter to Sir @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Labour ’ s Rachel Reeves has described it as “ vital that the government can reassure the public that its most senior figures have been adhering to the same rules as everyone else ” .
Reeves has criticised 10 Downing Street explanations for Cummings ’ behaviour on the basis that they “ raised more questions than they answer ” , including as to whether the Prime Minister was aware of the journey to Durham .
Below is the full text of the letter Rachel Reeves sent to Sir Mark Sedwill .
I am @ @ @ @ @ @ @ an urgent investigation into allegations Dominic Cummings broke the coronavirus lockdown rules .
The British people have made important and painful sacrifices to support the national effort , including being away from family in times of need .
It is therefore vital that the government can reassure the public that its most senior figures have been adhering to the same rules as everyone else .
The timeline of events that have been reported following a joint investigation by The Mirror and The Guardian would suggest Mr Cummings may have breached ( i ) @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ( ii ) the government ’ s own guidance on self-isolation and ( iii ) official NHS advice .
I am aware that , in responding to these reports , a spokesperson for Number 10 said earlier today : “ Owing to his wife being infected with suspected coronavirus and the high likelihood that he would himself become unwell , it was essential for Dominic Cummings to ensure his young child could be properly cared for .
“ His sister and nieces had volunteered to help so he went to a house near @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in case their help was needed .
His sister shopped for the family and left everything outside .
“ At no stage was he or his family spoken to by the police about this matter , as is being reported .
His actions were in line with coronavirus guidelines .
Mr Cummings believes he behaved reasonably and legally.
” Taking each section of this statement in turn : Claim : “ Owing to his wife being infected with suspected coronavirus and the high likelihood that he would himself become unwell , it was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ young child could be properly cared for.
” Response : On 16 March 2020 , the Prime Minister advised the British public to “ stop non-essential contact with others and to stop all unnecessary travel ” .
On 23 March , he then instructed the British public to stay at home except for certain “ very limited purposes ” [ i ] .
These rules were enshrined in law on 26 March : “ During the emergency period , no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.
” @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , the government ’ s guidance published on 23 March advised that if you were experiencing symptoms of coronavirus you must stay at home for 7 days and if you live with someone who has symptoms , self-isolate for 14 days from the day their symptoms started : “ If you live with others and you are the first in the household to have symptoms of coronavirus , then you must stay at home for 7 days , but all other household members who remain well must stay at home and not leave @ @ @ @ @ @ @ iii ] The NHS advice also states that : “ If you or someone you live with has symptoms of coronavirus : do not leave your home for any reason – if you need food or medicine , order it online or by phone , or ask someone to deliver it to your home ; do not have visitors in your home – including friends and family ; do any exercise at home – you can use your garden , if you have one.
” [ iv ] The actions of Dominic Cummings @ @ @ @ @ @ @ advice .
Claim : “ His sister and nieces had volunteered to help so he went to a house near to but separate from his extended family in case their help was needed .
His sister shopped for the family and left everything outside.
” Response : I understand Number 10 sources are pointing to Dominic Cummings and his wife needing childcare .
However , it does not appear to be within the government ’ s guidelines – or in the spirit of the guidelines – that a 260-mile trip can be justified @ @ @ @ @ @ @ brought to spreading the infection from London to another part of the country .
Claim : “ At no stage was he or his family spoken to by the police about this matter , as is being reported .
His actions were in line with coronavirus guidelines .
Mr Cummings believes he behaved reasonably and legally.
” Response : This statement directly contradicts the statement from Durham Constabulary , which was reported last night : “ On Tuesday , March 31 , our officers were made aware of reports that an individual had @ @ @ @ @ @ @ present at an address in the city .
“ Officers made contact with the owners of that address who confirmed that the individual in question was present and was self-isolating in part of the house .
“ In line with national policing guidance , officers explained to the family the guidelines around self-isolation and reiterated the appropriate advice around essential travel.
” [ v ] I remind you of the Code of Conduct for Special Advisers , which states that advisers must “ comply with the law and uphold the administration of justice.
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ you agree that senior officials and political figures play a critical role in ensuring the British public continue to have confidence in the government ’ s approach to tackling the current crisis .
By undermining this confidence , it undermines our collective effort to beat the coronavirus and the sacrifices millions of us have had to make .
The British people do not expect there to be one rule for them and another rule for the Prime Minister ’ s most senior adviser .
The Labour Party has been calling for a clear @ @ @ @ @ @ @ since the allegations were reported last night , but one has not been forthcoming .
In fact , the explanations that have been given have raised more questions than they answer , including : • When was the Prime Minister first made aware that Dominic Cummings was experiencing symptoms of the coronavirus ?
• When was the Prime Minister first made aware about Dominic Cummings decision to travel to Durham ?
Was this decision approved by the Prime Minister ?
And if so , on what grounds ?
• Were any other members @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Dominic Cummings decision to travel to Durham ?
• Did Dominic Cummings seek advice from any part of government , either prior to or subsequent from , his trip to Durham on either the legality of his actions or whether he was in full adherence to the rules in place during his trip to Durham ?
• Why did Number 10 ’ s official spokesperson tell journalists that Dominic Cummings was “ at home ” on 31 March , the same day Durham police were made aware he was in Durham ?
[ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has Dominic Cummings travel to and from Durham since the lockdown was introduced ?
• Does the Cabinet Office believe Dominic Cummings ’ s behaviour has breached official government guidelines ?
• Does the Chief Medical Officer believe Dominic Cummings behaviour breached official government and NHS guidelines ?
• Are you satisfied that the official statement from Number 10 in respect to whether the Durham police spoke to Mr Cummings ’ family is correct and the Durham Police are incorrect ?
• Has Dominic Cummings behaviour breached the code of conduct for special @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to this urgent investigation and that it can be carried out as swiftly as possible .
I am making this letter available to the public and copying it to the Prime Minister and the Director General of Propriety and Ethics .
Rachel Reeves MP Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster

The Labour Party has called for an urgent inquiry into the 260-mile trip from London to Durham undertaken by the Prime Minister’s senior adviser Dominic Cummings during the coronavirus lockdown.
It was revealed by The Mirror and The Guardian on Friday evening that Cummings travelled from London to Durham with his wife, who had coronavirus symptoms, and their child, while the government advised people to “stay at home”.
According to official medical advice, members of the public should self-isolate at home for seven days when Covid-19 symptoms begin and household members should isolate for 14 days.
At the latest coronavirus press conference, Dr Jenny Harries said that the guidance advises: “If you’re symptomatic, stay at home, take yourself out of society with your family and stay there unless there is an extreme risk to life”.
But cabinet ministers including Dominic Raab, Matt Hancock, Rishi Sunak, Michael Gove and Suella Braverman have come out in defence of Cummings. Grant Shapps said Boris Johnson has also offered his “full support”.
In a letter to Sir Mark Sedwill, the Cabinet Secretary, Labour’s Rachel Reeves has described it as “vital that the government can reassure the public that its most senior figures have been adhering to the same rules as everyone else”.
Reeves has criticised 10 Downing Street explanations for Cummings’ behaviour on the basis that they “raised more questions than they answer”, including as to whether the Prime Minister was aware of the journey to Durham.
Below is the full text of the letter Rachel Reeves sent to Sir Mark Sedwill.
Dear Sir Mark
Dominic Cummings
I am writing to request the Cabinet Office launch an urgent investigation into allegations Dominic Cummings broke the coronavirus lockdown rules.
The British people have made important and painful sacrifices to support the national effort, including being away from family in times of need. It is therefore vital that the government can reassure the public that its most senior figures have been adhering to the same rules as everyone else.
The timeline of events that have been reported following a joint investigation by The Mirror and The Guardian would suggest Mr Cummings may have breached (i) the law on restriction on movement, (ii) the government’s own guidance on self-isolation and (iii) official NHS advice.
I am aware that, in responding to these reports, a spokesperson for Number 10 said earlier today:
“Owing to his wife being infected with suspected coronavirus and the high likelihood that he would himself become unwell, it was essential for Dominic Cummings to ensure his young child could be properly cared for.
“His sister and nieces had volunteered to help so he went to a house near to but separate from his extended family in case their help was needed. His sister shopped for the family and left everything outside.
“At no stage was he or his family spoken to by the police about this matter, as is being reported. His actions were in line with coronavirus guidelines. Mr Cummings believes he behaved reasonably and legally.”
Taking each section of this statement in turn:
Claim: “Owing to his wife being infected with suspected coronavirus and the high likelihood that he would himself become unwell, it was essential for Dominic Cummings to ensure his young child could be properly cared for.”
Response: On 16 March 2020, the Prime Minister advised the British public to “stop non-essential contact with others and to stop all unnecessary travel”. On 23 March, he then instructed the British public to stay at home except for certain “very limited purposes”[i].
These rules were enshrined in law on 26 March:
“During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.”[ii]
In addition to this, the government’s guidance published on 23 March advised that if you were experiencing symptoms of coronavirus you must stay at home for 7 days and if you live with someone who has symptoms, self-isolate for 14 days from the day their symptoms started:
“If you live with others and you are the first in the household to have symptoms of coronavirus, then you must stay at home for 7 days, but all other household members who remain well must stay at home and not leave the house for 14 days.”[iii]
The NHS advice also states that: “If you or someone you live with has symptoms of coronavirus: do not leave your home for any reason – if you need food or medicine, order it online or by phone, or ask someone to deliver it to your home; do not have visitors in your home – including friends and family; do any exercise at home – you can use your garden, if you have one.”[iv]
The actions of Dominic Cummings would appear to be inconsistent with official advice.
Claim: “His sister and nieces had volunteered to help so he went to a house near to but separate from his extended family in case their help was needed. His sister shopped for the family and left everything outside.”
Response: I understand Number 10 sources are pointing to Dominic Cummings and his wife needing childcare. However, it does not appear to be within the government’s guidelines – or in the spirit of the guidelines – that a 260-mile trip can be justified, including the risk this could have brought to spreading the infection from London to another part of the country.
Claim: “At no stage was he or his family spoken to by the police about this matter, as is being reported. His actions were in line with coronavirus guidelines. Mr Cummings believes he behaved reasonably and legally.”
Response: This statement directly contradicts the statement from Durham Constabulary, which was reported last night:
“On Tuesday, March 31, our officers were made aware of reports that an individual had travelled from London to Durham and was present at an address in the city.
“Officers made contact with the owners of that address who confirmed that the individual in question was present and was self-isolating in part of the house.
“In line with national policing guidance, officers explained to the family the guidelines around self-isolation and reiterated the appropriate advice around essential travel.”[v]
I remind you of the Code of Conduct for Special Advisers, which states that advisers must “comply with the law and uphold the administration of justice.” [vi]
I am sure you agree that senior officials and political figures play a critical role in ensuring the British public continue to have confidence in the government’s approach to tackling the current crisis.
By undermining this confidence, it undermines our collective effort to beat the coronavirus and the sacrifices millions of us have had to make. The British people do not expect there to be one rule for them and another rule for the Prime Minister’s most senior adviser.
The Labour Party has been calling for a clear explanation from Number 10 about this matter since the allegations were reported last night, but one has not been forthcoming. In fact, the explanations that have been given have raised more questions than they answer, including:
When was the Prime Minister first made aware that Dominic Cummings was experiencing symptoms of the coronavirus?
When was the Prime Minister first made aware about Dominic Cummings decision to travel to Durham? Was this decision approved by the Prime Minister? And if so, on what grounds?
Were any other members of staff in Number 10 informed of Dominic Cummings decision to travel to Durham?
Did Dominic Cummings seek advice from any part of government, either prior to or subsequent from, his trip to Durham on either the legality of his actions or whether he was in full adherence to the rules in place during his trip to Durham?
Why did Number 10’s official spokesperson tell journalists that Dominic Cummings was “at home” on 31 March, the same day Durham police were made aware he was in Durham?[vii]
On how many occasions has Dominic Cummings travel to and from Durham since the lockdown was introduced?
Does the Cabinet Office believe Dominic Cummings’s behaviour has breached official government guidelines?
Does the Chief Medical Officer believe Dominic Cummings behaviour breached official government and NHS guidelines?
Are you satisfied that the official statement from Number 10 in respect to whether the Durham police spoke to Mr Cummings’ family is correct and the Durham Police are incorrect?
Has Dominic Cummings behaviour breached the code of conduct for special advisers?
I hope you will agree to this urgent investigation and that it can be carried out as swiftly as possible.
I am making this letter available to the public and copying it to the Prime Minister and the Director General of Propriety and Ethics.
Yours Sincerely,
Rachel Reeves MP
Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster


labourlist--2020-05-24--Full text: Grant Shapps interviewed by Sophy Ridge on Cummings story

Below is the full text of Sophy Ridge ’ s interview with government minister Grant Shapps , published with thanks to Sky ’ s Ridge on Sunday for providing the transcript .
SOPHY RIDGE : The Transport Secretary , Grant Shapps , joins us from central London , thank you very much for being on the programme , Mr Shapps .
First , I ’ d just like to get your reaction to our interview with Steve Baker .
I ’ m not sure if you caught it but he is effectively the first Conservative MP to publicly call for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ right ?
GRANT SHAPPS : I didn ’ t catch the interview but , look , I think this comes down to somebody who was trying to do the best by their four-year-old child who was in danger , having both parents ill and trying to position themselves where there was some family support from younger members of that family who could drop off food and the like .
There are perfectly legitimate questions to ask about these things , straightforward answers have been forthcoming and obviously I ’ d much rather speak @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ re doing in transport to build this country back after coronavirus , which is what I was hoping to talk to you about this morning .
SR : Yes , somewhat derailed by the news over the last couple of days .
The point Steve Baker was making on the childcare is that many of his constituents , many parents around the country have been grappling with exactly these concerns , of what to do with childcare , what to do with their families when they fall ill , and it sticks @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people would see as one rule for them and one rule for the elite .
GRANT SHAPPS : I think the most important thing about the guidance is it says if you are ill , make sure you self-isolate , you stay in a location .
The guidance also says you have to – to paraphrase – you have to look for common sense , practical solutions particularly it refers to when you ’ re looking after children .
They are perfectly legitimate questions to ask and Dominic Cummings is very much in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ his wife much less so , and the child not at all of course , what they ’ ve done is gone to make sure there is a support network around them .
Obviously , both parents were concerned about being ill , I think the wife was already ill , and so they have gone to somewhere which was adjacent to , but not with , his parents where both his sister and I believe a niece as well were able to bring food and take that to the door and that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they were both ill the child was at least getting some support .
So , I think it is perfectly sensible rational steps to try and make sure , as anybody would do as a parent , that they could look after their child and that ’ s basically the long and the short of this story .
SR : Okay , so I ’ m keen to ask you some very straightforward factual questions just to work out exactly what has happened .
So , when exactly did Dominic Cummings first show @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he make that journey from London to Durham ?
GRANT SHAPPS : I don ’ t want to disappoint you , obviously I ’ m Transport Secretary so I ’ m expert in everything to building our infrastructure back , particularly in the post-corona world , so I don ’ t have all the times and dates for you but I understand that he would have travelled up there towards the end of March and stayed there , remained there for 14 days , didn ’ t leave the property , in isolation @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
SR : Okay , so that journey is 260 miles from London to Durham , that ’ s four and a half hours in the car with a small child and a sick wife .
Did they stop at any point ?
GRANT SHAPPS : You will appreciate I wasn ’ t with them so I can ’ t tell you exactly what the journey itself was like but I do know that Dominic Cummings , I saw a clip yesterday of him asking journalists to make sure they were space two @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s a stickler for those rules and what to do to make sure you ’ re following the two-metre ruling and the like , so I am sure they took all the necessary precautions but I ’ m afraid I don ’ t have the details , I didn ’ t sort of track so I haven ’ t got the details or the tracking of that journey .
SR : I will admit to be slightly disappointed that you don ’ t have the details because we did flag these questions @ @ @ @ @ @ @ show , a really unusual step for us , something we have never really done before but we acknowledge that you are Transport Secretary , we put the questions out there on social media in the hope that you might be able to find out the answers to them .
These are really important questions ; they are simple factual questions and you are now coming on the programme saying you don ’ t know .
Why not ?
GRANT SHAPPS : You will appreciate , Sophy , I came on the programme @ @ @ @ @ @ @ about the transport announcements .
It is perfectly legitimate to ask a whole range of questions and questions have been asked about Mr Cummings .
Having said that , he has put out a statement , Downing Street has put out a statement and they have been clear that he followed the guidance that he did , what we were all supposed to do if we were ill during this period , that particular period of lockdown – remain in the same place , don ’ t interact with other people .
He @ @ @ @ @ @ @ looked after his young child and I don ’ t have details to the point of what time of day and how many stops .
SR : He didn ’ t stay in the same place .
The household is supposed to stay in the same place if you have coronavirus .
His wife was showing symptoms of coronavirus at the time .
He didn ’ t stay in the same place .
GRANT SHAPPS : Well , he did once they were… they were locked down , they hunkered down and they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ That ’ s after they had travelled 260 miles .
GRANT SHAPPS : Well , if you are going to lock down you go to the place you are going to stay and , as I say , the guidance is clear that particularly where young children are involved and it actually refers to children specifically and it says , you know , this isn ’ t a perfect science essentially .
The guidance says you want to take steps which are practical to be able to look after your children , or @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in their case meant having a sister or a niece who could drop off food and that ’ s what they did and where they remained I suppose .
I think there are more stories today , I was seeing about has he travelled backwards and forwards , accusations that he then went back up to Durham again further times and I understand completely untrue .
When he came back to London , which was on the 14th April , he has remained in London since and hasn ’ t been back to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ being said here which are completely untrue .
Actually , the basic story is pretty straightforward – husband and wife are ill , they hunker down , they look after their four-year-old and they don ’ t leave until they are better and they come back down to London afterwards , which would have been travelling for essential work , which is always allowed to do as well .
SR : Okay , just to be crystal clear because this is important : you are effectively saying that the two new allegations , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ up to Durham on the 19th April and the second , that he was seen by a witness apparently in Barnard Castle , thirty minutes from Durham , on the 12th April , you are going on record to say that both of those allegations are not true ?
GRANT SHAPPS : I certainly know that the first one that you mentioned , the travelling back up , I know that ’ s not true .
He has put out a statement saying that he was in London on the 14th… GRANT SHAPPS @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ t know but if that date was true , it would have been outside of the 14 day lockdown period but I ’ m afraid I don ’ t have information on that but I do know it is not the case that he has travelled backwards and forwards , which seems to be a major part of the stories I saw in the papers today .
SR : Have you asked Number 10 the answers to these questions or did they just not tell you ?
GRANT SHAPPS : Well , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ or Mr Cummings has put out a statement with Number 10 answering a whole variety of points .
There seems to have been a lot of confusion over this story , for example… GRANT SHAPPS : Well , I was going to say for example there was a suggestion that the police had been involved , that was I think in the original story but I understand there was some confusion over that .
The police were actually advising about some security matters , so you know , this is all very interesting @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the questions , as I say I ’ m sure there ’ s a level of interest about it but as we build ourselves out of coronavirus , big announcements like the billion pound programme I announced yesterday to build the A66 all the way into a dual carriageway from Penrith to Scotch Corner , things that actually matter to people ’ s everyday lives or will do as we come out of coronavirus , obviously things that I ’ m an expert in and I can talk to you about and I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of time to discuss today .
SR : I ’ m sure it ’ s very disappointing to not be able to talk about the A66 as much as you like on the programme , Mr Shapps , but just to pick you up on what you just said about the police because there seems to be some confusion here .
At yesterday ’ s press conference you said nobody from the police had spoken to Dominic Cummings or a member of his family but since then Durham Constabulary has said that “ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ made aware that Dominic Cummings had travelled from London to Durham and officers made contact the following morning by telephone .
During that conversation , Mr Cummings ’ father confirmed that his son had travelled with his family from London to the north-east.
” So , who is being dishonest , you or Durham Police ?
GRANT SHAPPS : So , yesterday about this specific issue , I think in fact it was Mr Cummings ’ father who contacted the police and not the other way round and actually it was in reference @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ll appreciate the family don ’ t want to go into , and not about this specific issue .
SR : Okay , so when did the Prime Minister find out that Mr Cummings had travelled to Durham ?
GRANT SHAPPS : Well , the viewers will probably remember , the Prime Minister during exactly the same period , was pretty ill and in fact eventually in hospital and in ICU , so I don ’ t think this will have been high on the Prime Minister ’ s agenda .
SR : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , because we believe that Dominic Cummings travelled to Durham on the 28th to the 29th of March when we were told that the Prime Minister , although he was showing symptoms of coronavirus and was self-isolating , that he was still leading the government and he was working from Number 10 .
So , were we misled about how serious the Prime Minister ’ s illness was at that time ?
GRANT SHAPPS : I ’ m sorry , I ’ m not quite clear what you mean by that connection .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ , we know he carried on working , that ’ s absolutely true and then he went into hospital , it is all very well documented , I think everyone knew what was going on there and then of course ended up in intensive care after that .
SR : Sorry , the point of my question , I absolutely accept that the Prime Minister became very ill but the time that we believe that Dominic Cummings made this journey to Durham , we were told that the Prime Minister was still working @ @ @ @ @ @ @ yes , he was .
SR : So , why didn ’ t he know about it then ?
Or did he know about it ?
GRANT SHAPPS : I don ’ t actually know whether the Prime Minister tracks every single move of Dominic Cummings .
I think he knew that Dominic Cummings was ill and was self-isolating , which is exactly what he was doing with his wife and his child .
SR : Okay , another question that we did flag to you in advance .
The reason I am @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this country have been following the lockdown to the letter and many of them are in really difficult situations , making incredibly difficult sacrifices for themselves and their families .
If we just look at one example , there are many more : Ismail Mohamed died without his family at his bedside on the 30th March , his parents and siblings couldn ’ t even attend his funeral , he was 13 years old .
While that was happening , a man essentially involved in drawing up the recommendations or the rules for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ travelling to see his family .
How is that right ?
GRANT SHAPPS : I suspect nearly everyone watching knows people who have been affected and people who have died from coronavirus , I can think of nine or ten people that I know directly or indirectly and my heart goes out to everybody who has been affected by this virus and it is true , people haven ’ t been able to attend funerals of family and so on and so forth but I just want to be completely clear about what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not Dominic Cummings went to see his parents , he was in a separate adjacent property .
This is somebody who followed the guidelines by going to sort of lock down in order to be in the best place to ensure provision was made for a four-year-old who clearly would not have been able to look after himself , which the guidance makes clear you must do in this situation the thing which will look after children , for their welfare , in the best possible way which is what people would expect @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to do exactly that and that ’ s what ’ s happened in this situation here .
SR : What many people would be trying to get their head around is one of the government ’ s great successes has been getting people to obey the rules of the lockdown and driving down the cases of this deadly virus as a result but now members of the Cabinet seem to be saying you should use your own common sense , that the rules are there for interpretation , that they are guidelines , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for your own family .
Is saving the job of Dominic Cummings really more important than getting people to adhere to the lockdown ?
GRANT SHAPPS : I want to push back on that actually , Sophy , because the absolute critical part of this is remaining in the same location whilst you go through the fourteen days of isolation which is what happened here .
There is no idea of them travelling around during the period they were ill , they stayed in the same place to do that .
They made @ @ @ @ @ @ @ but they did that and the guidance didn ’ t say you must only drive a mile to do that or whatever .
Clearly , every family ’ s position will have been different through this period but look , as I said – and this obviously is important and they are perfectly legitimate questions to ask and they have also been answered I think pretty clearly and apart from the A66 there are bus and tram services that we have spent £286m to bring them back to full service which is something @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and all these others things , I think they will actually in the end be much more significant for people watching your programme because what we need to know is how we ’ re going to deal with the recovery stage of this , particularly from the 1st June which is the earliest possible moment to go into Phase Two of this , coming up shortly .
All of this is probably more interesting than how one family looked after their four-year-old by staying in a single location and not , as has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ back and forth and back and forth .
There are big issues here which matter to the country as a whole and while it ’ s great to get into the detail of this , I think most of those questions have been answered now .
SR : Okay , thanks for the job tips , much appreciated .
Now , one of the things of course that many people will legitimately be interested in knowing is about schools , nurseries , and whether they are actually going to be opening on June @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ away and is something that of course affects millions of families so will schools and nurseries , some primary school age year groups and nurseries , be seeking to have children attending from the 1st June ?
GRANT SHAPPS : Yes , that certainly is the plan and I think it is really important because we are in a position where children are clearly missing out on very vital and formative parts of their education , particularly in that reception year , Year One , Year Six , which are absolutely crucial @ @ @ @ @ @ @ We ’ ve seen this happen in other countries – Denmark and Germany , France – where some of the schools are going back in those places as we would do here , very cautiously , not large class sizes , taking all of the necessary precautions and elsewhere where this has been done , the infection rate has been kept the same as well so we ’ ve seen it work as well , there may even be over 20 countries now where there are a limited number of children back .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ that we try to do that from 1st June and that certainly is the intention .
SR : Thank you .
Just finally , you will have drawn the shortest of short straws this weekend , you signed up to do that daily briefing yesterday from Downing Street , today ’ s morning TV round , hoping to talk about your transport announcement and then the Dominic Cummings story broke .
Were you tempted to switch off your alarm this morning ?
GRANT SHAPPS : No , Sophy , I ’ d miss @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at least a moment to talk about some of these transport announcements and our approach to this which is going to be to build our way back from coronavirus .
Look , this has been a huge moment for this country and globally , we have never seen anything like it in a hundred years but how we respond now and how we build back and how we create the infrastructure , the jobs and the skills and bring this country back to life again , is going to be absolutely essential .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ hoped to be talking about that , all of those things , through the press conference yesterday and the media interviews this morning but I appreciate you giving me a small opportunity to do that .
We ’ re bringing back the buses and the trams and the trains , the important thing is that people avoid the rush hour , don ’ t go and use them unless you absolutely can ’ t walk , cycle or drive , because we are only able to take about a fifth of the normal @ @ @ @ @ @ @ % of the services back in place .
SR : Thank you and as you say , important news for people who are thinking about starting to return to work in the weeks ahead , thank you Grant Shapps .

Below is the full text of Sophy Ridge’s interview with government minister Grant Shapps, published with thanks to Sky’s Ridge on Sunday for providing the transcript.
SOPHY RIDGE: The Transport Secretary, Grant Shapps, joins us from central London, thank you very much for being on the programme, Mr Shapps. First, I’d just like to get your reaction to our interview with Steve Baker. I’m not sure if you caught it but he is effectively the first Conservative MP to publicly call for Dominic Cummings to go, is he right?
GRANT SHAPPS: I didn’t catch the interview but, look, I think this comes down to somebody who was trying to do the best by their four-year-old child who was in danger, having both parents ill and trying to position themselves where there was some family support from younger members of that family who could drop off food and the like. There are perfectly legitimate questions to ask about these things, straightforward answers have been forthcoming and obviously I’d much rather speak to you about all the things we’re doing in transport to build this country back after coronavirus, which is what I was hoping to talk to you about this morning.
SR: Yes, somewhat derailed by the news over the last couple of days. The point Steve Baker was making on the childcare is that many of his constituents, many parents around the country have been grappling with exactly these concerns, of what to do with childcare, what to do with their families when they fall ill, and it sticks in the throat to see what many people would see as one rule for them and one rule for the elite.
GRANT SHAPPS: I think the most important thing about the guidance is it says if you are ill, make sure you self-isolate, you stay in a location. The guidance also says you have to – to paraphrase – you have to look for common sense, practical solutions particularly it refers to when you’re looking after children. They are perfectly legitimate questions to ask and Dominic Cummings is very much in the public eye but his child and his wife much less so, and the child not at all of course, what they’ve done is gone to make sure there is a support network around them. Obviously, both parents were concerned about being ill, I think the wife was already ill, and so they have gone to somewhere which was adjacent to, but not with, his parents where both his sister and I believe a niece as well were able to bring food and take that to the door and that sort of thing, meaning that if they were both ill the child was at least getting some support. So, I think it is perfectly sensible rational steps to try and make sure, as anybody would do as a parent, that they could look after their child and that’s basically the long and the short of this story.
SR: Okay, so I’m keen to ask you some very straightforward factual questions just to work out exactly what has happened. So, when exactly did Dominic Cummings first show symptoms of coronavirus and what date did he make that journey from London to Durham?
GRANT SHAPPS: I don’t want to disappoint you, obviously I’m Transport Secretary so I’m expert in everything to building our infrastructure back, particularly in the post-corona world, so I don’t have all the times and dates for you but I understand that he would have travelled up there towards the end of March and stayed there, remained there for 14 days, didn’t leave the property, in isolation as per the rules and the guidance.
SR: Okay, so that journey is 260 miles from London to Durham, that’s four and a half hours in the car with a small child and a sick wife. Did they stop at any point?
GRANT SHAPPS: You will appreciate I wasn’t with them so I can’t tell you exactly what the journey itself was like but I do know that Dominic Cummings, I saw a clip yesterday of him asking journalists to make sure they were space two metres apart, so I know he’s a stickler for those rules and what to do to make sure you’re following the two-metre ruling and the like, so I am sure they took all the necessary precautions but I’m afraid I don’t have the details, I didn’t sort of track so I haven’t got the details or the tracking of that journey.
SR: I will admit to be slightly disappointed that you don’t have the details because we did flag these questions to you before you came on the show, a really unusual step for us, something we have never really done before but we acknowledge that you are Transport Secretary, we put the questions out there on social media in the hope that you might be able to find out the answers to them. These are really important questions; they are simple factual questions and you are now coming on the programme saying you don’t know. Why not?
GRANT SHAPPS: You will appreciate, Sophy, I came on the programme and I was originally booked to talk about the transport announcements. It is perfectly legitimate to ask a whole range of questions and questions have been asked about Mr Cummings. Having said that, he has put out a statement, Downing Street has put out a statement and they have been clear that he followed the guidance that he did, what we were all supposed to do if we were ill during this period, that particular period of lockdown – remain in the same place, don’t interact with other people. He did all of those things, he looked after his young child and I don’t have details to the point of what time of day and how many stops.
SR: He didn’t stay in the same place. The household is supposed to stay in the same place if you have coronavirus. His wife was showing symptoms of coronavirus at the time. He didn’t stay in the same place.
GRANT SHAPPS: Well, he did once they were… they were locked down, they hunkered down and they stayed there for 14 days…
SR: That’s after they had travelled 260 miles.
GRANT SHAPPS: Well, if you are going to lock down you go to the place you are going to stay and, as I say, the guidance is clear that particularly where young children are involved and it actually refers to children specifically and it says, you know, this isn’t a perfect science essentially. The guidance says you want to take steps which are practical to be able to look after your children, or child in this particular case, which in their case meant having a sister or a niece who could drop off food and that’s what they did and where they remained I suppose. I think there are more stories today, I was seeing about has he travelled backwards and forwards, accusations that he then went back up to Durham again further times and I understand completely untrue. When he came back to London, which was on the 14th April, he has remained in London since and hasn’t been back to Durham so there are lots of things being said here which are completely untrue. Actually, the basic story is pretty straightforward – husband and wife are ill, they hunker down, they look after their four-year-old and they don’t leave until they are better and they come back down to London afterwards, which would have been travelling for essential work, which is always allowed to do as well.
SR: Okay, just to be crystal clear because this is important: you are effectively saying that the two new allegations, the first that Mr Cummings travelled back up to Durham on the 19th April and the second, that he was seen by a witness apparently in Barnard Castle, thirty minutes from Durham, on the 12th April, you are going on record to say that both of those allegations are not true?
GRANT SHAPPS: I certainly know that the first one that you mentioned, the travelling back up, I know that’s not true. He has put out a statement saying that he was in London on the 14th…
SR: And Barnard Castle?
GRANT SHAPPS: I’m afraid I don’t know but if that date was true, it would have been outside of the 14 day lockdown period but I’m afraid I don’t have information on that but I do know it is not the case that he has travelled backwards and forwards, which seems to be a major part of the stories I saw in the papers today.
‘Are you going on the record to say the two new allegations against Dominic Cummings are not true?’ – @SophyRidgeSky @grantshapps says it’s “not true” that Mr Cummings travelled back up to Durham on 19th April, but adds he doesn’t know about the second claim.#Ridge pic.twitter.com/lZIFF6BFKj — Sophy Ridge on Sunday (@RidgeOnSunday) May 24, 2020
SR: Have you asked Number 10 the answers to these questions or did they just not tell you?
GRANT SHAPPS: Well, Number 10 has put out a statement or Mr Cummings has put out a statement with Number 10 answering a whole variety of points. There seems to have been a lot of confusion over this story, for example…
SR: Answering these questions?
GRANT SHAPPS: Well, I was going to say for example there was a suggestion that the police had been involved, that was I think in the original story but I understand there was some confusion over that. The police were actually advising about some security matters, so you know, this is all very interesting and you are absolutely right to ask the questions, as I say I’m sure there’s a level of interest about it but as we build ourselves out of coronavirus, big announcements like the billion pound programme I announced yesterday to build the A66 all the way into a dual carriageway from Penrith to Scotch Corner, things that actually matter to people’s everyday lives or will do as we come out of coronavirus, obviously things that I’m an expert in and I can talk to you about and I’d like to take a bit of time to discuss today.
“I had hoped” to talk about “things I’m an expert in” says Transport Secretary @grantshapps @SophyRidgeSky “I’m sure it’s very disappointing not to be able to talk about the A66 as much as you’d like on the programme”#Ridge pic.twitter.com/AnUHMhnmxe — Sophy Ridge on Sunday (@RidgeOnSunday) May 24, 2020
SR: I’m sure it’s very disappointing to not be able to talk about the A66 as much as you like on the programme, Mr Shapps, but just to pick you up on what you just said about the police because there seems to be some confusion here. At yesterday’s press conference you said nobody from the police had spoken to Dominic Cummings or a member of his family but since then Durham Constabulary has said that “On Tuesday March 31st our officers were made aware that Dominic Cummings had travelled from London to Durham and officers made contact the following morning by telephone. During that conversation, Mr Cummings’ father confirmed that his son had travelled with his family from London to the north-east.” So, who is being dishonest, you or Durham Police?
GRANT SHAPPS: So, yesterday about this specific issue, I think in fact it was Mr Cummings’ father who contacted the police and not the other way round and actually it was in reference to security advice, which you’ll appreciate the family don’t want to go into, and not about this specific issue.
SR: Okay, so when did the Prime Minister find out that Mr Cummings had travelled to Durham?
GRANT SHAPPS: Well, the viewers will probably remember, the Prime Minister during exactly the same period, was pretty ill and in fact eventually in hospital and in ICU, so I don’t think this will have been high on the Prime Minister’s agenda.
SR: I just want to come back there, because we believe that Dominic Cummings travelled to Durham on the 28th to the 29th of March when we were told that the Prime Minister, although he was showing symptoms of coronavirus and was self-isolating, that he was still leading the government and he was working from Number 10. So, were we misled about how serious the Prime Minister’s illness was at that time?
GRANT SHAPPS: I’m sorry, I’m not quite clear what you mean by that connection. We know the Prime Minister was unwell, we know he carried on working, that’s absolutely true and then he went into hospital, it is all very well documented, I think everyone knew what was going on there and then of course ended up in intensive care after that.
SR: Sorry, the point of my question, I absolutely accept that the Prime Minister became very ill but the time that we believe that Dominic Cummings made this journey to Durham, we were told that the Prime Minister was still working as usual.
GRANT SHAPPS: Oh yes, he was.
SR: So, why didn’t he know about it then? Or did he know about it?
GRANT SHAPPS: I don’t actually know whether the Prime Minister tracks every single move of Dominic Cummings. I think he knew that Dominic Cummings was ill and was self-isolating, which is exactly what he was doing with his wife and his child.
‘When did the PM find out that Dominic Cummings had travelled to Durham?’ @SophyRidgeSky @grantshapps – “You’ll have to forgive me, I don’t actually know whether the prime minister tracks every single move of Dominic Cummings.”#Ridge https://t.co/JwYiKcNiml pic.twitter.com/a8HTMP14hs — Sophy Ridge on Sunday (@RidgeOnSunday) May 24, 2020
SR: Okay, another question that we did flag to you in advance. The reason I am asking these questions is because people in this country have been following the lockdown to the letter and many of them are in really difficult situations, making incredibly difficult sacrifices for themselves and their families. If we just look at one example, there are many more: Ismail Mohamed died without his family at his bedside on the 30th March, his parents and siblings couldn’t even attend his funeral, he was 13 years old. While that was happening, a man essentially involved in drawing up the recommendations or the rules for what people should be doing, is travelling to see his family. How is that right?
GRANT SHAPPS: I suspect nearly everyone watching knows people who have been affected and people who have died from coronavirus, I can think of nine or ten people that I know directly or indirectly and my heart goes out to everybody who has been affected by this virus and it is true, people haven’t been able to attend funerals of family and so on and so forth but I just want to be completely clear about what’s happened here. This is not Dominic Cummings went to see his parents, he was in a separate adjacent property. This is somebody who followed the guidelines by going to sort of lock down in order to be in the best place to ensure provision was made for a four-year-old who clearly would not have been able to look after himself, which the guidance makes clear you must do in this situation the thing which will look after children, for their welfare, in the best possible way which is what people would expect and any mother or father would want to do exactly that and that’s what’s happened in this situation here.
SR: What many people would be trying to get their head around is one of the government’s great successes has been getting people to obey the rules of the lockdown and driving down the cases of this deadly virus as a result but now members of the Cabinet seem to be saying you should use your own common sense, that the rules are there for interpretation, that they are guidelines, that you should do what is right for your own family. Is saving the job of Dominic Cummings really more important than getting people to adhere to the lockdown?
“It wasn’t like they were travelling around in the period they were ill..”@grantshapps insists Dominic Cummings remained in the “same location” whilst going through “14 days of isolation” – saying “guidance didn’t say you must only drive a mile to do that”.#Ridge pic.twitter.com/Kf0xq8K3r4 — Sophy Ridge on Sunday (@RidgeOnSunday) May 24, 2020
GRANT SHAPPS: I want to push back on that actually, Sophy, because the absolute critical part of this is remaining in the same location whilst you go through the fourteen days of isolation which is what happened here. There is no idea of them travelling around during the period they were ill, they stayed in the same place to do that. They made sure their support network was around them but they did that and the guidance didn’t say you must only drive a mile to do that or whatever. Clearly, every family’s position will have been different through this period but look, as I said – and this obviously is important and they are perfectly legitimate questions to ask and they have also been answered I think pretty clearly and apart from the A66 there are bus and tram services that we have spent £286m to bring them back to full service which is something else I have been announcing this weekend and all these others things, I think they will actually in the end be much more significant for people watching your programme because what we need to know is how we’re going to deal with the recovery stage of this, particularly from the 1st June which is the earliest possible moment to go into Phase Two of this, coming up shortly. All of this is probably more interesting than how one family looked after their four-year-old by staying in a single location and not, as has been suggested in the newspapers, driving back and forth and back and forth. There are big issues here which matter to the country as a whole and while it’s great to get into the detail of this, I think most of those questions have been answered now.
“Thanks for the job tips” – @SophyRidgeSky @grantshapps insists questions on Dominic Cummings have been answered “clearly” and there are other issues, such as how the UK will deal with the #COVID19 recovery, that “will be much more significant”.#Ridge https://t.co/JwYiKcNiml pic.twitter.com/S1Xhr0BOqU — Sophy Ridge on Sunday (@RidgeOnSunday) May 24, 2020
SR: Okay, thanks for the job tips, much appreciated. Now, one of the things of course that many people will legitimately be interested in knowing is about schools, nurseries, and whether they are actually going to be opening on June 1st. It is only eight days’ away and is something that of course affects millions of families so will schools and nurseries, some primary school age year groups and nurseries, be seeking to have children attending from the 1st June?
GRANT SHAPPS: Yes, that certainly is the plan and I think it is really important because we are in a position where children are clearly missing out on very vital and formative parts of their education, particularly in that reception year, Year One, Year Six, which are absolutely crucial moments in children’s education. We’ve seen this happen in other countries – Denmark and Germany, France – where some of the schools are going back in those places as we would do here, very cautiously, not large class sizes, taking all of the necessary precautions and elsewhere where this has been done, the infection rate has been kept the same as well so we’ve seen it work as well, there may even be over 20 countries now where there are a limited number of children back. So, I think it is important that we try to do that from 1st June and that certainly is the intention.
SR: Thank you. Just finally, you will have drawn the shortest of short straws this weekend, you signed up to do that daily briefing yesterday from Downing Street, today’s morning TV round, hoping to talk about your transport announcement and then the Dominic Cummings story broke. Were you tempted to switch off your alarm this morning?
GRANT SHAPPS: No, Sophy, I’d miss out speaking to you. I appreciated at least a moment to talk about some of these transport announcements and our approach to this which is going to be to build our way back from coronavirus. Look, this has been a huge moment for this country and globally, we have never seen anything like it in a hundred years but how we respond now and how we build back and how we create the infrastructure, the jobs and the skills and bring this country back to life again, is going to be absolutely essential. As you say, I’d hoped to be talking about that, all of those things, through the press conference yesterday and the media interviews this morning but I appreciate you giving me a small opportunity to do that. We’re bringing back the buses and the trams and the trains, the important thing is that people avoid the rush hour, don’t go and use them unless you absolutely can’t walk, cycle or drive, because we are only able to take about a fifth of the normal passenger numbers even when we have 100% of the services back in place.
SR: Thank you and as you say, important news for people who are thinking about starting to return to work in the weeks ahead, thank you Grant Shapps.
GRANT SHAPPS: Thank you, Sophy.


labourlist--2020-05-24--Sunday shows: Labour demands answers on “extraordinarily serious” Cummings story

Grant Shapps was asked about reports that Dominic Cummings broke lockdown rules .
Ridge had given advance warning of the questions she would ask .
Shapps insisted that Cummings had followed the rules and denied allegations of a second trip to Durham .
• On Cummings breaking the lockdown rules : “ This comes down to somebody who was trying to do the best by their four-year-old child… Trying to position themselves where there was some family support.
” • On travel and the guidance : “ The guidance also says – to paraphrase – you have to look for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it refers to when you ’ re looking after children.
” • On when Cummings displayed symptoms and travelled to Durham : “ I understand that he will have travelled up there towards the end of March and stayed there , remained there for 14 days… as per the rules and the guidance.
” • Asked if he stopped during the journey , and if he complied with the two-metre rule : “ He ’ s a stickler for those rules about what to do to make sure you ’ re following the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ m sure they took all the necessary precautions but I ’ m afraid I don ’ t have the detail.
” • Asked why the minister did not have answers to questions made available to him before the interview : “ You ’ ll appreciate , Sophy , I came on the programme actually booked originally to talk about the transport announcements.
” • He added : “ Downing Street put out a statement .
They ’ ve been clear that he followed the guidance , that he did what we ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ remain in the same place , don ’ t interact with other people – he did all those things.
” • Put to him that by travelling to from London to Durham , Cummings did not “ remain in the same place ” : “ Well , he did once they were locked down .
They sort of hunkered down and they stayed there for 14 days.
” • On claims of a second trip : “ There also are things being said here which are completely untrue .
Actually , the basic @ @ @ @ @ @ @ wife are ill , they hunker down , they look after their four-year-old.
” • On the new allegation that he travelled back up to Durham on April 19th : “ I know that ’ s not true.
” • On whether he visited Barnard Castle , 30 miles from Durham , on April 12th : “ I don ’ t know , but if that date was true , that would have been outside the 14-day lockdown period… I do know that it is not the case that he has travelled backwards @ @ @ @ @ @ @ claim that the police had not spoken to the Cummings family : “ It was Mr Cummings ’ father who contacted the police , not the other way around .
And actually it was in reference to security advice… not about this specific issue.
” • On when the PM knew about the journey : “ The Prime Minister during exactly the same period was pretty ill and in fact eventually in hospital and in ICU , so I don ’ t think this will have been high on the Prime Minister ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that the public and press were briefed that Johnson was still working and leading the government at the time in question : “ I don ’ t actually know whether the Prime Minister tracks every single move of Dominic Cummings.
” • Asked if saving Cummings ’ job is more important than getting people to adhere strictly to the lockdown rules : “ The absolute critical part of this is remaining in the same location whilst you go through the 14 days of isolation , which is what happened .
It wasn ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the period they were ill. ” Labour ’ s shadow policing minister Sarah Jones called on the Prime Minister to make clear “ what he knew and what he ’ s going to do about it ” regarding the Cummings story .
• On Cummings breaking the lockdown rules : “ People are rightly feeling : is it one rule for us and one rule for the people at the top ?
” • Asked if he should resign : “ We need some really serious answers… You look at the office of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ statements from our police force in Durham – this is very serious.
” • She added : “ There are people suffering and people making big sacrifices , and here we have a situation where someone whose family had symptoms travels halfway across the country.
” • On what action Boris Johnson should take in response : “ The Prime Minister needs to come to the press conference today and answer questions about what happened , what he knew and what he ’ s going to do about it.
” • On an @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to Mark Sedwill , the Cabinet Secretary , to say can you investigate this.
” • Asked if she has sympathy with Cummings ’ situation : “ We all have sympathy with everybody in this situation… but I know single mums who ’ ve had Covid where their child has had to stay with them.
” • On messaging during the lockdown : “ We heard him [ Johnson ] say stay at home , protect the NHS , save lives – he didn ’ t say , or drive 260 miles to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the right thing to do.
” • On Labour ’ s position on June 1st reopening of schools : “ We want schools to go back , we want our children to be educated… But it has to be done correctly.
” • On what has to happen beforehand : “ We need to make sure that the test , track and trace system that the government has promised by 1st June to be in place , which is the only way we get out of this situation… That has to be in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Home Secretary , said allegations that Cummings broke lockdown rules were “ extraordinarily serious ” .
He set out Labour ’ s demands for an urgent investigation by the Cabinet Office and for the Prime Minister to do the press conference today .
On Labour councils refusing to reopen schools on June 1st , he said : “ I respect… wanting to put safety first ” .
• On Labour ’ s demands : “ What we ’ re asking for is two things .
Firstly , there to be an urgent investigation @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for the Prime Minister today to take the daily press conference himself and provide answers .
This is an extraordinarily serious situation .
The British people have made extraordinary sacrifices to get through this crisis by following guidelines… The allegations we ’ ve seen are extraordinarily serious and they do need to be dealt with.
” • Asked what he would do in Cummings ’ situation : “ I would follow the guidelines .
We have had people in exactly these situations , tens of thousands of households , who ’ ve had @ @ @ @ @ @ @ best they can.
” • On questions that need answering : “ Did the PM ’ s chief advisor take advice before making that extraordinarily long journey to Durham ?
What enquiries did he make as to what the availability was of childcare locally in London ?
On his own story at the moment , when he got to Durham he didn ’ t actually use that childcare at all .
It was actually a family member who was delivering food .
Is there a reason why that couldn ’ t be done @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the police talking to the Cummings family : “ 10 Downing Street even now finds itself in the position of contradicting perfectly reasonable factual statements from the Durham Constabulary.
” • On whether he backs councils refusing to reopen schools on June 1st : “ I think it ’ s unsurprising that Labour councils are doing that , and of course I respect – right around the country , whether it ’ s Labour councils or other bodies – wanting to put safety first.
” • Pressed on whether he backs them : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s Labour councils or others , who have not got to a stage where they have confidence from the government about safety.
” • On the Welsh approach : “ The Welsh Labour government has put in place a decision-making framework .
That framework brings together everybody… to establish a consensus as to when it is safe to go back to school .
The approach of trying to divide people , of trying to say that different people in the education sector want different things , is the wrong thing to do.
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ have been open throughout the crisis .
There have been teachers on the frontline , for the children of key workers and for vulnerable children .
Secondly , the Prime Minister made a very specific promise – that test , track and isolate would be up and running by 1st June .
The government seems to be backing away somewhat from that.
” • He described having the testing and tracing programme up and running as “ absolutely essential ” .
Grant Shapps was again asked about Cummings .
He revealed that he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ directly ” despite defending him at the press conference on Saturday and on the Sunday shows .
• On the police talking to the Cummings family , which was denied by Shapps on Saturday : “ The police were actually advising about some security matters.
” • On whether there was an “ extreme risk to life ” that explained the Durham journey : “ A four-year-old can ’ t feed themselves , a four-year-old can ’ t bathe themselves and change their clothes .
So it ’ s quite clear that they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ” • On answering questions : “ I came on your programme booked to talk about transport matters… For those reasons , my expertise lies in transport.
” • On whether Cummings made a stop on the journey : “ I ’ m afraid , again , I don ’ t know the answer to whether he stopped along the way.
” • On whether people were allowed to visit family rather than stay at home when displaying symptoms : “ We ’ ve never told people where they have to specifically locate @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that people “ must remain in their primary residence ” . )
• On whether there is a new ‘ Cummings clause ’ in the guidance : “ The key point has alway been that people remain locked down.
” • On following the coronavirus guidance : “ You should do the things which are practical .
”

Ridge on Sunday
Grant Shapps was asked about reports that Dominic Cummings broke lockdown rules. Ridge had given advance warning of the questions she would ask. Shapps insisted that Cummings had followed the rules and denied allegations of a second trip to Durham.
On Cummings breaking the lockdown rules: “This comes down to somebody who was trying to do the best by their four-year-old child… Trying to position themselves where there was some family support.”
On travel and the guidance: “The guidance also says – to paraphrase – you have to look for common sense, practical solutions, particularly it refers to when you’re looking after children.”
On when Cummings displayed symptoms and travelled to Durham: “I understand that he will have travelled up there towards the end of March and stayed there, remained there for 14 days… as per the rules and the guidance.”
Asked if he stopped during the journey, and if he complied with the two-metre rule: “He’s a stickler for those rules about what to do to make sure you’re following the two-metre rules and the like… So I’m sure they took all the necessary precautions but I’m afraid I don’t have the detail.”
Asked why the minister did not have answers to questions made available to him before the interview: “You’ll appreciate, Sophy, I came on the programme actually booked originally to talk about the transport announcements.”
He added: “Downing Street put out a statement. They’ve been clear that he followed the guidance, that he did what we’re all supposed to do… Lockdown, remain in the same place, don’t interact with other people – he did all those things.”
Put to him that by travelling to from London to Durham, Cummings did not “remain in the same place”: “Well, he did once they were locked down. They sort of hunkered down and they stayed there for 14 days.”
On claims of a second trip: “There also are things being said here which are completely untrue. Actually, the basic story is pretty straightforward, husband and wife are ill, they hunker down, they look after their four-year-old.”
On the new allegation that he travelled back up to Durham on April 19th: “I know that’s not true.”
On whether he visited Barnard Castle, 30 miles from Durham, on April 12th: “I don’t know, but if that date was true, that would have been outside the 14-day lockdown period… I do know that it is not the case that he has travelled backwards and forwards.”
On his own claim that the police had not spoken to the Cummings family: “It was Mr Cummings’ father who contacted the police, not the other way around. And actually it was in reference to security advice… not about this specific issue.”
On when the PM knew about the journey: “The Prime Minister during exactly the same period was pretty ill and in fact eventually in hospital and in ICU, so I don’t think this will have been high on the Prime Minister’s agenda.”
Put to him that the public and press were briefed that Johnson was still working and leading the government at the time in question: “I don’t actually know whether the Prime Minister tracks every single move of Dominic Cummings.”
Asked if saving Cummings’ job is more important than getting people to adhere strictly to the lockdown rules: “The absolute critical part of this is remaining in the same location whilst you go through the 14 days of isolation, which is what happened. It wasn’t like they were travelling around in the period they were ill.”
'When did the PM find out that Dominic Cummings had travelled to Durham?' @SophyRidgeSky @grantshapps – "You'll have to forgive me, I don't actually know whether the prime minister tracks every single move of Dominic Cummings."#Ridge https://t.co/JwYiKcNiml pic.twitter.com/a8HTMP14hs — Sophy Ridge on Sunday (@RidgeOnSunday) May 24, 2020
Labour’s shadow policing minister Sarah Jones called on the Prime Minister to make clear “what he knew and what he’s going to do about it” regarding the Cummings story.
On Cummings breaking the lockdown rules: “People are rightly feeling: is it one rule for us and one rule for the people at the top?”
Asked if he should resign: “We need some really serious answers… You look at the office of the Prime Minister, questioning and undermining statements from our police force in Durham – this is very serious.”
She added: “There are people suffering and people making big sacrifices, and here we have a situation where someone whose family had symptoms travels halfway across the country.”
On what action Boris Johnson should take in response: “The Prime Minister needs to come to the press conference today and answer questions about what happened, what he knew and what he’s going to do about it.”
On an investigation: “We’ve written to Mark Sedwill, the Cabinet Secretary, to say can you investigate this.”
Asked if she has sympathy with Cummings’ situation: “We all have sympathy with everybody in this situation… but I know single mums who’ve had Covid where their child has had to stay with them.”
On messaging during the lockdown: “We heard him [Johnson] say stay at home, protect the NHS, save lives – he didn’t say, or drive 260 miles to Durham if you think that’s the right thing to do.”
On Labour’s position on June 1st reopening of schools: “We want schools to go back, we want our children to be educated… But it has to be done correctly.”
On what has to happen beforehand: “We need to make sure that the test, track and trace system that the government has promised by 1st June to be in place, which is the only way we get out of this situation… That has to be in place.”
"Look at the office of the prime minister questioning and undermining…our police force in Durham"@LabourSJ says "undermining the police and breaking the rules" is a "very serious matter" & the PM needs to explain his advisor's Dominic Cummings' actions.#Ridge pic.twitter.com/BwkpEetdxK — Sophy Ridge on Sunday (@RidgeOnSunday) May 24, 2020
The Andrew Marr Show
Nick Thomas-Symonds, the Shadow Home Secretary, said allegations that Cummings broke lockdown rules were “extraordinarily serious”. He set out Labour’s demands for an urgent investigation by the Cabinet Office and for the Prime Minister to do the press conference today. On Labour councils refusing to reopen schools on June 1st, he said: “I respect… wanting to put safety first”.
Dominic Cummings story…
On Labour’s demands: “What we’re asking for is two things. Firstly, there to be an urgent investigation by the Cabinet Office. And second for the Prime Minister today to take the daily press conference himself and provide answers. This is an extraordinarily serious situation. The British people have made extraordinary sacrifices to get through this crisis by following guidelines… The allegations we’ve seen are extraordinarily serious and they do need to be dealt with.”
Asked what he would do in Cummings’ situation: “I would follow the guidelines. We have had people in exactly these situations, tens of thousands of households, who’ve had to muddle through and follow guidelines as best they can.”
On questions that need answering: “Did the PM’s chief advisor take advice before making that extraordinarily long journey to Durham? What enquiries did he make as to what the availability was of childcare locally in London? On his own story at the moment, when he got to Durham he didn’t actually use that childcare at all. It was actually a family member who was delivering food. Is there a reason why that couldn’t be done in London either?”
On the police talking to the Cummings family: “10 Downing Street even now finds itself in the position of contradicting perfectly reasonable factual statements from the Durham Constabulary.”
Schools reopening…
On whether he backs councils refusing to reopen schools on June 1st: “I think it’s unsurprising that Labour councils are doing that, and of course I respect – right around the country, whether it’s Labour councils or other bodies – wanting to put safety first.”
Pressed on whether he backs them: “I back anybody, whether it’s Labour councils or others, who have not got to a stage where they have confidence from the government about safety.”
On the Welsh approach: “The Welsh Labour government has put in place a decision-making framework. That framework brings together everybody… to establish a consensus as to when it is safe to go back to school. The approach of trying to divide people, of trying to say that different people in the education sector want different things, is the wrong thing to do.”
He added: “Schools have been open throughout the crisis. There have been teachers on the frontline, for the children of key workers and for vulnerable children. Secondly, the Prime Minister made a very specific promise – that test, track and isolate would be up and running by 1st June. The government seems to be backing away somewhat from that.”
He described having the testing and tracing programme up and running as “absolutely essential”.
“Boris Johnson should take the daily press conference himself and provide answers” Shadow Home Secretary Nick Thomas-Symonds tells #Marr an “urgent investigation” should look into Dominic Cummings lockdown triphttps://t.co/LnUAWLcnwU pic.twitter.com/qPBmXWzPPI — BBC Politics (@BBCPolitics) May 24, 2020
Grant Shapps was again asked about Cummings. He revealed that he has not spoken to Dominic Cummings “directly” despite defending him at the press conference on Saturday and on the Sunday shows.
On the police talking to the Cummings family, which was denied by Shapps on Saturday: “The police were actually advising about some security matters.”
On whether there was an “extreme risk to life” that explained the Durham journey: “A four-year-old can’t feed themselves, a four-year-old can’t bathe themselves and change their clothes. So it’s quite clear that they wanted to put some measures in place.”
On answering questions: “I came on your programme booked to talk about transport matters… For those reasons, my expertise lies in transport.”
On whether Cummings made a stop on the journey: “I’m afraid, again, I don’t know the answer to whether he stopped along the way.”
On whether people were allowed to visit family rather than stay at home when displaying symptoms: “We’ve never told people where they have to specifically locate themselves.” (The government guidance states that people “must remain in their primary residence”.)
On whether there is a new ‘Cummings clause’ in the guidance: “The key point has alway been that people remain locked down.”
On following the coronavirus guidance: “You should do the things which are practical.”
Asked whether Cummings will resign: “No.”