dailysignal--2020-12-04--4 Highlights From Georgia Senate’s Election Fraud Hearing

The Trump campaign ’ s legal team described suitcases full of ballots Thursday in presentations to Georgia state lawmakers that included a video and a call for the legislators to appoint electors to vote for the president .
Other Georgia state and local officials , meanwhile , said the Nov. 3 election ran smoothly in the Peach State , with no widespread voter fraud .
In back-to-back hearings at the Capitol in Atlanta , the state Senate ’ s Government Oversight and Judiciary committees sorted through controversies and allegations that emerged from the voting .
State legislators in closely contested @ @ @ @ @ @ @ held election-related hearings this week .
The Trump legal team has filed court challenges in those states as well as in Wisconsin and Nevada .
Trump campaign lawyers also made arguments Thursday in a Nevada court , challenging the results in that state and calling witnesses to present evidence .
Here are highlights from the two Georgia hearings .
Major media outlets on Nov. 7 projected Joe Biden as the winner of the election , saying the former vice president had garnered more than the necessary 270 electoral votes .
But President Donald @ @ @ @ @ @ @ campaign pursues legal options .
The Electoral College votes Dec. 14 , and those electoral votes are set to be counted officially by Congress on Jan. 6 .
The Trump legal team made a video presentation of what the lawyers described as—and what appeared to be—continued vote counting after the process supposedly had stopped .
An election worker told count observers and the press to clear out of State Farm Arena in Atlanta on election night for more than two hours , saying that counting of Fulton County ballots would temporarily stop , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Trump team ’ s video presentation to the Judiciary Committee .
The video seemed to show that after the volunteer observers and reporters were gone , several election workers stayed behind and continued counting votes unobserved until early the next morning , Nov. 4 .
The video appeared to show election workers—evidently unaware or not caring that cameras were still running—pulling four suitcases out from under tables after the others left the room .
“ What are these ballots doing there separate from all the other ballots ?
And why are they only @ @ @ @ @ @ @ out with no witnesses ?
” Pick asked the lawmakers .
“ These machines can process about 3,000 ballots per hour .
You have multiple machines there .
They are there for two hours .
So you do the math , ” Pick said , adding : Fulton County , the largest of Georgia ’ s 159 counties , ran an exemplary election , argued Robb Pitts , chairman of the Fulton County Board of Commissioners .
“ I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt , there has been no @ @ @ @ @ @ @ County .
I have been personally involved in it , ” Pitts told the Government Oversight Committee , adding : Much news out of Georgia on Election Day had to do with a water leak that resulted in a temporary halt to activity by election workers .
“ People are seeing ghosts in the shadows and we need you to expand on that , if you don ’ t mind , ” Miller said .
Pitts said rumors about the incident took on a life of their own , and assured the committee @ @ @ @ @ @ @ There was a leak in the floor above where we were counting ballots at State Farm Arena , according to Steve Koonin , CEO of the Atlanta Hawks , that occurred at 6:07 a.m. [ Nov. 3 ] , ” Pitts said .
“ At 8:07 a.m. , it was repaired within two hours.
” “ No ballots were damaged , ” he said .
“ No equipment was damaged .
End of story .
How this has gotten to be what it is , I have no idea.
” Biden won Georgia @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Smith , the Trump team ’ s lead counsel in the state , reminded the Judiciary Committee .
However , 2,506 felons voted illegally in Georgia , Smith told the committee .
He said another 2,423 voters weren ’ t registered to vote ; 1,043 of those who cast ballots registered at a post office box ; and 4,926 voted despite registering to vote after the deadline .
On Nov. 20 , Georgia certified results showing the state went for Biden .
“ Because of the irregularities and abject failure of the secretary @ @ @ @ @ @ @ counties to properly conduct the election , it is impossible to certify the results of the 2020 presidential election , ” Smith told the lawmakers .
Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger is a Republican , but has drawn fire from Trump supporters for saying the state ’ s election operations went smoothly .
Smith said 10,315 ballots appeared to be cast by voters who were dead by Election Day , and another 395 voters cast ballots in Georgia and another state—which if true would violate at least two state laws .
Smith @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a change of address with the U.S .
Postal Service before Nov. 3 , and 40,279 voted after moving across county lines at least 30 days before Election Day without reregistering in their new county .
The Trump campaign ’ s legal team filed suit in Fulton County Superior Court contesting the outcome in Georgia , he said .
“ Normally in an election contest under Georgia law , the remedy is a new election .
That would certainly be a possible remedy in the instance , ” Smith said .
“ We @ @ @ @ @ @ @ new election.
” But , he said the Legislature must act to appoint electors , citing the U.S. Constitution ’ s provision that “ each state shall appoint , in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct , a number of electors equal to the whole number of senators and representatives to which the state may be entitled in Congress.
” “ However , because the presidential election is actually a delegation of your constitutional duties as a Legislature , you as a Georgia Legislature are the body that is to choose @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
State Sen. Elena Parent , a Democrat , objected to the idea of the Legislature ’ s taking advantage of its ability to name a new set of electors , presumably for Trump and not Biden .
“ I think the courts can handle this once you ’ ve presented your evidence to them , ” Parent said .
“ As I ’ m aware , there have been about 40 lawsuits dismissed already , and according to the law of the state of Georgia , we do not have the power @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in the law is quite clear.
” Georgia has some of the strongest election laws in the United States , including laws against ballot harvesting and accepting votes after Election Day , Ryan Germany , general counsel for the Georgia Secretary of State ’ s Office , told the Government Oversight Committee .
Germany said the COVID-19 pandemic created a massive spike in absentee ballots , which became a major burden on local election workers .
However , he said , the Secretary of State ’ s Office didn ’ t find worrisome @ @ @ @ @ @ @ anything that would suggest widespread fraud or widespread problems with the voting system , ” Germany told the committee .
The office has 230 open election-related investigations , he said .
“ I don ’ t think fraud is the right word .
I like to think about it more as legal votes or illegal votes , ” Germany said .
He gave numbers that were significantly lower than those cited by the Trump campaign lawyer .
“ We have about 300 instances of alleged double-voting , people that voted absentee and on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ adding : “ No evidence that the wrong winner was declared of the presidential election in Georgia ?
” Parent asked .
Germany noted that voter drop boxes included cameras that election officials could review to ensure that no fraud was occurring .
The Trump campaign has asked for an audit of signatures to verify the legitimacy of Georgia ’ s absentee ballots .
Germany said investigations occur based on complaints that cite evidence .
So , he said , the Secretary of State ’ s Office would not conduct a statewide audit @ @ @ @ @ @ @ “ We are looking at that from any individualized , specific complaint that we get .
I think what people are asking us to do is look at all of them , all 1.6 million , because some [ absentee ballots ] weren ’ t returned , ” Germany said .
“ Frankly , I ’ m not sure that ’ s something we have the authority to do , ” he said .
“ I ’ m not sure that ’ s appropriate .
We open our investigation based on actionable complaints.
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ powerful person in the world , ” Gooch said .
“ How can we certify this election this week knowing that a fourth of the ballots haven ’ t been verified by professionals or audited ?
” Germany expressed support for requiring voters to provide a photo ID , but turned this question on lawmakers for the Legislature ’ s passage of no-excuse absentee voting—meaning a person doesn ’ t have to provide a reason for not voting in person .
“ In 2005 , when we moved to photo ID , this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ no-excuse absentee voting that did not require ID , ” Germany told senators .
“ So that ’ s our law .
So that ’ s how we certify it , because it followed the law .
”

The Trump campaign’s legal team described suitcases full of ballots Thursday in presentations to Georgia state lawmakers that included a video and a call for the legislators to appoint electors to vote for the president.
Other Georgia state and local officials, meanwhile, said the Nov. 3 election ran smoothly in the Peach State, with no widespread voter fraud.
In back-to-back hearings at the Capitol in Atlanta, the state Senate’s Government Oversight and Judiciary committees sorted through controversies and allegations that emerged from the voting.
State legislators in closely contested Pennsylvania, Arizona, and Michigan also held election-related hearings this week. The Trump legal team has filed court challenges in those states as well as in Wisconsin and Nevada.
Trump campaign lawyers also made arguments Thursday in a Nevada court, challenging the results in that state and calling witnesses to present evidence.
Here are highlights from the two Georgia hearings.
1. Suitcases Full of Ballots?
Major media outlets on Nov. 7 projected Joe Biden as the winner of the election, saying the former vice president had garnered more than the necessary 270 electoral votes. But President Donald Trump hasn’t conceded as his campaign pursues legal options.
The Electoral College votes Dec. 14, and those electoral votes are set to be counted officially by Congress on Jan. 6.
The Trump legal team in Georgia made a video presentation of what the lawyers described as—and what appeared to be—continued vote counting after the process supposedly had stopped.
An election worker told count observers and the press to clear out of State Farm Arena in Atlanta on election night for more than two hours, saying that counting of Fulton County ballots would temporarily stop, said Jackie Pick, who narrated the Trump team’s video presentation to the Judiciary Committee.
The video seemed to show that after the volunteer observers and reporters were gone, several election workers stayed behind and continued counting votes unobserved until early the next morning, Nov. 4.
The video appeared to show election workers—evidently unaware or not caring that cameras were still running—pulling four suitcases out from under tables after the others left the room.
“What are these ballots doing there separate from all the other ballots? And why are they only counting them when the place is cleared out with no witnesses?” Pick asked the lawmakers.
WATCH: Video footage from Georgia shows suitcases filled with ballots pulled from under a table AFTER supervisors told poll workers to leave room and 4 people stayed behind to keep counting votes pic.twitter.com/AcbTI1pxn4 — Team Trump (@TeamTrump) December 3, 2020
“These machines can process about 3,000 ballots per hour. You have multiple machines there. They are there for two hours. So you do the math,” Pick said, adding:
How many ballots went through those machines in those two hours when there was no one there to supervise, to be present, consistent with your statutes and rules, to supervise the tabulation? We believe that could easily be and probably is certainly beyond the margin of victory in this race.
2. About That Water Leak
Fulton County, the largest of Georgia’s 159 counties, ran an exemplary election, argued Robb Pitts, chairman of the Fulton County Board of Commissioners.
“I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, there has been no instance of any unusual activity within Fulton County. I have been personally involved in it,” Pitts told the Government Oversight Committee, adding:
Has there been a situation from time to time where there is an issue with technology? Yes. Has there been a situation where there may have been human error? As far as an orchestrated effort to manipulate the votes in Fulton County, that’s not the case. I have challenged anyone who has made those allegations, come forward, bring that information to me, and I will take it seriously and we will get to the bottom of it.
Much news out of Georgia on Election Day had to do with a water leak that resulted in a temporary halt to activity by election workers.
State Senate President Pro Tem Butch Miller, a Republican, asked Pitts about this.
“People are seeing ghosts in the shadows and we need you to expand on that, if you don’t mind,” Miller said.
Pitts said rumors about the incident took on a life of their own, and assured the committee that it was no problem.
“There was a leak in the floor above where we were counting ballots at State Farm Arena, according to Steve Koonin, CEO of the Atlanta Hawks, that occurred at 6:07 a.m. [Nov. 3],” Pitts said. “At 8:07 a.m., it was repaired within two hours.”
“No ballots were damaged,” he said. “No equipment was damaged. End of story. How this has gotten to be what it is, I have no idea.”
3. Call to Appoint Electors
Biden won Georgia by only about 12,500 votes, Ray Smith, the Trump team’s lead counsel in the state, reminded the Judiciary Committee.
However, 2,506 felons voted illegally in Georgia, Smith told the committee. He said another 2,423 voters weren’t registered to vote; 1,043 of those who cast ballots registered at a post office box; and 4,926 voted despite registering to vote after the deadline.
On Nov. 20, Georgia certified results showing the state went for Biden.
“Because of the irregularities and abject failure of the secretary of state of this state and the counties to properly conduct the election, it is impossible to certify the results of the 2020 presidential election,” Smith told the lawmakers.
Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger is a Republican, but has drawn fire from Trump supporters for saying the state’s election operations went smoothly.
Smith said 10,315 ballots appeared to be cast by voters who were dead by Election Day, and another 395 voters cast ballots in Georgia and another state—which if true would violate at least two state laws.
Smith also asserted that 15,700 individuals had filed a change of address with the U.S. Postal Service before Nov. 3, and 40,279 voted after moving across county lines at least 30 days before Election Day without reregistering in their new county.
The Trump campaign’s legal team filed suit in Fulton County Superior Court contesting the outcome in Georgia, he said.
“Normally in an election contest under Georgia law, the remedy is a new election. That would certainly be a possible remedy in the instance,” Smith said. “We are asking the court to order a new election.”
But, he said the Legislature must act to appoint electors, citing the U.S. Constitution’s provision that “each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors equal to the whole number of senators and representatives to which the state may be entitled in Congress.”
Georgia has 16 electoral votes.
“However, because the presidential election is actually a delegation of your constitutional duties as a Legislature, you as a Georgia Legislature are the body that is to choose the presidential electors,” Smith said.
State Sen. Elena Parent, a Democrat, objected to the idea of the Legislature’s taking advantage of its ability to name a new set of electors, presumably for Trump and not Biden.
“I think the courts can handle this once you’ve presented your evidence to them,” Parent said. “As I’m aware, there have been about 40 lawsuits dismissed already, and according to the law of the state of Georgia, we do not have the power to submit alternate electors. The provision in the law is quite clear.”
4. ‘No Evidence Wrong Winner Was Declared?’
Georgia has some of the strongest election laws in the United States, including laws against ballot harvesting and accepting votes after Election Day, Ryan Germany, general counsel for the Georgia Secretary of State’s Office, told the Government Oversight Committee.
Germany said the COVID-19 pandemic created a massive spike in absentee ballots, which became a major burden on local election workers.
However, he said, the Secretary of State’s Office didn’t find worrisome problems.
“We have not seen anything that would suggest widespread fraud or widespread problems with the voting system,” Germany told the committee.
The office has 230 open election-related investigations, he said.
“I don’t think fraud is the right word. I like to think about it more as legal votes or illegal votes,” Germany said.
He gave numbers that were significantly lower than those cited by the Trump campaign lawyer.
“We have about 300 instances of alleged double-voting, people that voted absentee and on Election Day,” Germany said, adding:
We are looking at that. That’s significantly down from what happened in the primary, based on some protections we put into place. We have about 70 instances of potential felon voting. So that’s what we’re looking at. We have not seen anything to suggest widespread fraud or widespread problems with the voting system.
Parent asked: “No evidence the machine switched votes?”
Germany answered, “Correct.”
“No evidence that the wrong winner was declared of the presidential election in Georgia?” Parent asked.
“Correct,” Germany responded.
Germany noted that voter drop boxes included cameras that election officials could review to ensure that no fraud was occurring.
The Trump campaign has asked for an audit of signatures to verify the legitimacy of Georgia’s absentee ballots.
Germany said investigations occur based on complaints that cite evidence. So, he said, the Secretary of State’s Office would not conduct a statewide audit of signatures on all absentee ballots.
“We are looking at that from any individualized, specific complaint that we get. I think what people are asking us to do is look at all of them, all 1.6 million, because some [absentee ballots] weren’t returned,” Germany said.
“Frankly, I’m not sure that’s something we have the authority to do,” he said. “I’m not sure that’s appropriate. We open our investigation based on actionable complaints.”
But state Sen. Steve Gooch, a Republican, had a concern.
“We just elected the most powerful person in the world,” Gooch said. “How can we certify this election this week knowing that a fourth of the ballots haven’t been verified by professionals or audited?”
Germany expressed support for requiring voters to provide a photo ID, but turned this question on lawmakers for the Legislature’s passage of no-excuse absentee voting—meaning a person doesn’t have to provide a reason for not voting in person.
“In 2005, when we moved to photo ID, this body on a party-line vote went to no-excuse absentee voting that did not require ID,” Germany told senators. “So that’s our law. So that’s how we certify it, because it followed the law.”


dailysignal--2020-12-07--He Was Hospitalized by COVID-19. Here’s What He Wants You to Know.

Allen Muench was fighting for his life when he checked into the hospital in November with COVID-19 .
After just 36 hours under the care of his doctors and nurses , Muench says he “ felt like a new person.
” Muench , a longtime Daily Signal subscriber from St. Louis , joins the show to share his personal experience with the novel coronavirus and how Americans should prepare in case they become infected .
He also explains why he ’ s thankful for President Donald Trump ’ s leadership during the pandemic .
Listen to the podcast below or @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Bluey : We are joined on “ The Daily Signal Podcast ” today by Allen Muench , a longtime Daily Signal subscriber from St. Louis , Missouri .
Allen is also a COVID-19 survivor , having recently battled the virus alongside his wife .
Allen , welcome to the show .
Allen Muench : Thank you , Rob .
Glad to be here .
Bluey : You and I first connected way back in 2016 after I attended a meeting with Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg , and I believe you saw some news @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at that time because you were facing censorship from Facebook on your posts .
And I ’ d like to come back to that and talk about it in a moment .
But first , I want to hear more about your story and your battle with COVID-19 .
And I think it ’ s so important because in a country of more than 330 million Americans , we now have more than 14 million who have had COVID and you ’ re one of them .
But many people might not have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ take us back and explain how you believe you contracted the virus and what it was like initially ?
Muench : First of all , I just wanted to say , I ’ m not a medical expert .
I ’ m not a COVID-19 expert .
I am just sharing my account of what happened a few weeks ago in November .
Wednesdays we always have our grandchild and we usually try to take him to one of those parks with all the playground equipment .
And this was a newer one @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they had some low-hanging bars , steel bars .
And when you ’ re chasing your grandchildren , you ’ re usually watching them , you ’ re not looking up .
And unfortunately , my wife ran into one , hit her in the forehead , and she felt that it was a pretty good hit .
So that night she was concerned about that she might have , from the hit , what you would call it ?
Muench : A concussion .
Yes , thank you .
I ’ m @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
So anyway , we went to a local hospital here , a great hospital in St. Louis .
Actually , in St. Charles .
St. Charles is next to St. Louis County .
And she was a negative for the concussion , but it was two days later I showed signs of COVID and then the next day after that I got tested at our local hospital .
And then it was Sunday , I think around Nov. 14 , that I got the diagnosis of COVID .
So basically , we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ had our mask on , every place in the world is social distancing now , so they were doing all the right things .
So we got it .
The bizarre thing , if I can get into this , Rob , is this is not the flu we all got five or 10 years ago where you get a stomach ache and a headache and a fever and it goes away in a few days .
This thing has a mind of its own .
I started out not too bad , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Two , things like that , maybe a little stomach problem .
And then Day Three , nothing at all .
I felt great .
I ’ m painting , Day Three and Four , a portrait of our grandchildren and feeling guilty because everybody else that has COVID is suffering , but that was short lived .
On about Day Five , then more symptoms came back .
Bizarre .
I had the brain fog .
I had a rash .
It was about a 6-by-6 rash on my hip .
No @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s symptoms , from what doctors tell me , are different than someone else ’ s .
So then , was it Day Five or Six , things subsided and you ’ d have a good morning and a bad afternoon , or something like that .
And then I got close to Day Seven and Eight and it wasn ’ t too bad .
And I ’ m thinking , “ I ’ m going to get out of this .
I ’ m going to beat COVID.
” And then @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I ’ m a high risk , I ’ ve had double pneumonia .
So it was [ a few ] weeks ago on a Sunday morning , middle of the night .
And Joni had COVID too , my wife .
So she wasn ’ t feeling well .
So I just basically wrapped up my phone and a charger and drove to the emergency room .
And I ’ m not saying this to be dramatic , but I was so weak and so tired , before I could even put @ @ @ @ @ @ @ kind of hunched over the console and slept for a couple of minutes .
That ’ s how weak it is , but I didn ’ t want to get an Uber driver sick or anything like that .
So I thought , “ I got to get there on my own.
” I drove there about 1 a.m. and within not very too long , they realized that I was dealing with pneumonia and they ’ re X-raying and blood tests , all that kind of stuff .
Very quickly they had @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , “ We ’ re going to give you remdesivir and Decadron to help you breathe and we ’ re going to admit you in the middle of the night.
” I did ask the doctor then , because we ’ re all kind of curious of this , how this flu spreads .
And when I said , “ Hey , I was here a week ago with the concussion issue and I had this social distancing .
I had the mask.
” And the doctor almost smiled and he goes , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ “ this thing can travel 30 , 40 feet at a time .
It can pierce through a mask with ease.
” He said , “ We ’ re all trying to do what we can do , but especially in a hospital atmosphere where there ’ s a lot of germs floating around , ” he said , “ there ’ s hardly any way that you can stop it.
” They admitted me , they got me on the good drugs .
And by the end of that Sunday , 20 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ already starting to see my oxygen levels rise and starting to feel a little better .
But because I have two nurses a day , I was able to talk to them and just get the inside story because all I had heard up until before I got in the hospital was what you saw on the news and it seemed to be very dubious of what they were saying .
… Oh , by the way , these nurses were incredible , it ’ s part of the BJC system here in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ] confident and took care of me .
They did everything they could .
They had no fear in them .
Most of them have already had the COVID because that ’ s where they work and it ’ s probably in the air stream .
And so then they ’ re going home and they ’ re dealing with it .
Probably if they ’ re younger , they live with their parents and [ are ] giving it to their parents .
And if they they ’ re older and they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ giving it to the husband .
So they had a lot of stories to share .
I had 12 symptoms and maybe zero of them were the same as some of the nurses .
One nurse just had a bad back , bad headache , and one other thing , and she was sleeping 22 hours a day for about a week in her 20s , so she ’ s a healthy person , before she started to come around .
So every time I would share my symptoms with somebody else , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ like I scraped myself or something , they just looked at me , rolled their eyes , and then they would share what they had .
And the word I heard the most from doctors and nurses was the word , “ It ’ s unpredictable.
” Bluey : Well , it certainly seems that way , Al .
You were keeping in touch with me throughout this .
I think that you first told me back in mid-November , and you told me you had COVID , you were on Day Four @ @ @ @ @ @ @ You shared how you thought it had happened .
A few days later , you checked in , I think it was on Tuesday , Nov. 19 , and you said you ’ re feeling fine—you ’ ve had the flu , that ’ s been worse than this .
And then I didn ’ t hear from you for several days .
And the next thing I know you , you tell me you ’ ve been to the ER .
Fortunately , at that point , you ’ d turned the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ off the oxygen and you felt better .
It just is really unbelievable to hear this story about how dramatically it can change just within a 24-hour period .
When you decided to go to the hospital , what were your thinking ?
Are you in a state of mind where you ’ re not sure you ’ re going to come out of this , or you ’ ve got a lot of hope that they can get you the drugs that you need to bounce back ?
Muench : Well , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it off ” guy , whatever , because I don ’ t like to run to the doctor for every little scratch and sniffle I get .
But 24 hours or 36 hours before I went to the ER , my wife knew my cough wasn ’ t good .
And she kept saying , “ You need to go , you need to go.
” And I kept thinking , “ Well , I ’ m almost at this 10-day period of being out of this , maybe.
” But since I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it felt like , that ’ s what I was feeling the night before I drove .
So I purposely waited until 1 a.m. because I wanted the ER room to clear out so I could get all the care I could .
So that ’ s why I waited as long as I did .
But no , I knew what double pneumonia felt like and I knew I probably had it and knew that I had to throw in the towel and not be such a tough guy and go in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that you ’ d like to personally thank President [ Donald ] Trump for his response to COVID-19 .
Of course , the president himself battled COVID .
What ’ s your message that you want other Americans to hear based on your own experience and why you credit President Trump ?
Muench : Real quickly , before I voted for him in a primary in 2016 , and I think my wife was a [ Sen. Ted ] Cruz guy at the time , we were driving to the primary and I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the newspapers and TV show and Oprah and all that stuff .
And I remember looking at it , I said , “ Vote for who you want to vote for , but this guy gets the job done and he ’ s a winner.
” I ’ ll never forget telling her that .
There ’ s no doubt .
And I ’ m not saying this to flatter him or flirt or make conservatives feel , well , the guy to me is part genius and he ’ s a hard @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what I feel they developed—now , I ’ ve had seven , eight , nine months for the hospitals to get a reactionary program going .
In that time they found the right drugs ; super confident , everybody in the system , this BJC hospital I went to .
And it ’ s like when you walk on an airplane , you want to look at a pilot that you know is going to get you from A to B safely .
And when you look at these doctors and they ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s the beginning of the healing process : “ OK , I don ’ t know what they ’ re going to do , but they ’ re going to do the right thing and they ’ re going to get me healed.
” Anyway , I feel the credit starts at the top and I believe and I watched some of those sessions back in March , April , and May .
And I know not everyone was on board with President Trump , but I ’ m a survivor and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ up … Now , there ’ s two different things going on .
I got the Cadillac drugs , the remdesivir and the Decadron .
My wife didn ’ t .
When I was in the hospital and getting these IV drips for four days , she did drive herself to the ER and she did not have pneumonia .
And I don ’ t know how they do the rules with the drugs and all that , but they sent her home and she was not feeling well when she drove there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ She was kind of on her own and she explained to me , she was so tired she couldn ’ t even take her coat off when she got home .
She just slept for hours and hours .
And it was hard for her to even take care of herself because you get so weak you can barely move .
In that case , I have to give more thanks , President Trump , because whether you are for or against the drug , the hydroxychloroquine , that seemed to be the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ watched the few days before we got that medication , she wasn ’ t moving , just coughing and writhing in pain .
And it was frightening because normally we can call a doctor and get something for our loved one or ourself or whatever , and I couldn ’ t do anything .
We ’ d call the ER and they ’ d say , “ Well , you can bring her in , but if she doesn ’ t have pneumonia or something , we ’ ll send her home.
” @ @ @ @ @ @ @ enough answer .
Anyway , it was [ about ] a week ago , Sunday or Saturday night , we secured hydroxychloroquine , and you take two pills a day .
And it was about Day Three—so more or less Sunday , Monday , something like that—where we finally started to see her make some improvement .
And I can honestly tell you , it saved her life .
Bluey : Al , we ’ ve been praying for you and her throughout these past few weeks .
And it ’ s just @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and hear that you both are doing better .
It ’ s scary .
It ’ s no doubt scary .
I ’ ve had family members impacted by it and I think that one of the things that you said to me is , “ Don ’ t be scared , seek help if you ’ re in a situation where you need it.
” What is your advice to other Americans who might find themselves in a position similar to yours ?
Having lived through it , what do you want @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a plan .
This thing ’ s going to spread .
I hope nobody else gets it , but it ’ s a pandemic .
So it ’ s very obvious that it ’ s going to slowly effect—whether they ’ re asymptomatic or you get the full COVID-19 like I did or my wife did .
Have a plan .
And we ’ re both in our 60s .
So we weren ’ t able to bounce back as quickly as someone in their 20s or 30s , although those people are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ re alone , make sure you have someone that you think could come in and help you because there was a time where my wife couldn ’ t hold a cup of coffee , and thus , she ’ s not going to be able to take [ her pills ] .
People can ’ t take pills and fix meals and all that kind of stuff and take care of themselves .
So have a plan .
And I ’ m not trying to scare anybody .
I ’ m just @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that if you can ’ t move , you can barely roll over in bed , that a loved one or a friend or someone that ’ s capable of doing this can come in your house and help you .
As far as the medications are concerned , I want to say I was fortunate enough because I had pneumonia to get these Cadillac drugs … remdesivir and the Decadron .
My wife wasn ’ t .
So there ’ s an example where one spouse got it , got better quickly @ @ @ @ @ @ @ t qualify .
So I know the hydroxychloroquine , there ’ s a lot of people not sure what they think about it .
And a lot of people , because it has Trump ’ s fingerprint on it , are probably not going to even consider it .
But in the long run , I would say if you can find a conservative doctor that will prescribe it for you , if , unfortunately , you need it , by all means , don ’ t wait a second—get it .
Now @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it ’ s no different than any other e-visit that we ’ ve all done in the last year—and they will make a diagnosis over the internet .
And if you qualify , they ’ ll send you the prescription .
So what I ’ m saying here , and I ’ m not trying to scare anybody , Rob , but have a plan .
Bluey : I think it ’ s so important to have a plan .
And now the story began , obviously , with you and your wife @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has it impacted your family ?
And obviously , we ’ re in a time when families are getting together for the holidays .
And so what ’ s it been like for the family to support you throughout this ?
Muench : A lot of WhatsApp , a lot of Zoom .
I wouldn ’ t let anyone I know or love anywhere near my house right now .
Right now , we ’ re fine and we ’ re past the point where there ’ s no more germs .
But @ @ @ @ @ @ @ know near the house .
A couple of relatives have been kind enough to drop something off on the porch and that ’ s fine .
So we ’ re trying to keep it as dichotic as we [ can ] .
As far as Christmas , all the ornaments and everything in the basement won ’ t come be coming up this year .
We ’ ve got one little plant that we put out .
So Thanksgiving was pretty much zilch and Christmas is pretty much just going to be just @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Yes , I certainly understand .
Thank you so much for sharing that .
As I promised at the top of the interview , I did want to give you an opportunity to talk about something else that is a bond that you and I have dating back now over four years , and that ’ s social media .
You are a prolific user of social media to get the good news out , to spread the conservative message to an audience that you grew organically .
And I think it ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ individuals like you face challenges of censorship from platforms like Facebook , when in fact , as a retired accountant , you ’ re certainly not a powerful politician or somebody who has the means to go toe to toe with Mark Zuckerberg in a congressional hearing .
Can you share some of the challenges that you faced and you continue to face with social media ?
Muench : Sure , sure .
The first thing , even though I put President Trump at the top of the mountain and halfway up the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the trenches with all the patriotic Americans , is that I look at it and I compare … I ’ ve put about 12,000 hours into the 2016 and 2020 election .
It ’ s a lot of hours , but that ’ s what it ’ s taking to get him to the finish line .
And I look at it as just a big old towing chain .
If someone ’ s going to tow your car out of a rut , I ’ m just one of those chains , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ little chain and that ’ s it .
That ’ s how I see myself .
But if you take that chain and these other people I deal with around our country and around the world and you link all those chains together , you can pull a car out of a ditch and that ’ s what it ’ s had to take .
And as far as social media , before Trump won in 2016 , the social media platforms—Twitter , Facebook , Instagram—were pretty much like the wild , Wild @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a Trump victory coming so they really didn ’ t have too much of an eye on us .
And we just had a heyday trying to push our narrative of the truth and the real news .
… The reason I ’ m bringing this up is , when I ’ ve had a good meme , a good post , a typical post would be maybe a 70,000 reach , which is not bad .
But on a real good post on a given day , I could get half a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ which is pretty good .
And so the run-up to 2016 , we were pretty wide open .
As soon as he won , we ’ re talking [ within ] hours , there was a stranglehold put on us that you wouldn ’ t believe and there are times now where a reach of 200 or 300 people is a big day .
Every once in a while , I can get one through if the key thing ’ s on a good meme , or if it ’ s topical , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ day , very clean and clever , people like funny things .
So we try to make them funny .
And then the other part is the groups .
Obviously , there ’ s many , many , many liberal and conservative groups .
So the more we can share these with , the better chance that they ’ ll share them and they ’ ll share them and things like that .
So what we ’ ve seen since 2016 is just an elaborate—I don ’ t know how to put this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ these guys like to … deactivate accounts .
But I brought in the fact-checkers and I think I was part of that , talking to that attorney .
Bluey : As were we at The Daily Signal .
We know all too well about that .
Muench : OK .
So the fact-checkers , you just have to deal with them .
My favorite label they put on is “ out of context.
” And I ’ m thinking to myself , “ Out of context is what the internet is .
Nothing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ” They have all kinds of little labels they like and I think they feel that the labels will slow somebody down or maybe keep them from clicking on the post to look at it .
Most people nowadays , even the comments , I had one this morning , or Facebook slapped a label on it about all their election results and predictions and all that .
… And so people leave a comment , “ Come on , Facebook .
Come on , Instagram , or whoever.
” But that ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with , Rob .
And so I try not to complain about it too much .
I just try to make things more clever .
I ’ ve created probably over 12,000 memes in that six-year period and I ’ ve made tons of friends .
Rob , there are so many incredible patriotic people in the United States that I work with .
I just can ’ t sing their praises enough .
Not only that , there are people around the world that I stay in contact with—U.K.
, South Africa @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the crazy thing is they know more about our political system than I do .
It ’ s incredible .
And there was a lady from Australia .
… She would post , because of the time difference , she saw I was asleep all night .
And I said to her , I said , “ Why ?
Why are you doing this ?
” And she said , “ Al , ” she goes , “ the way the United States goes is the way the world goes.
” And I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that ’ s great.
” We have a great system and I ’ m seeing more ghosting now than I used to see .
I used to see most ghosting on Twitter , but now I ’ m seeing it with that CEO you met , and I can post to several groups and look hours later and see no comments or notifications from any of those groups and I know that I posted to them .
So be that as it may .
I run into things like that .
And it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ So we ’ re just dealing the best we can .
The nice part was that I watched on November 3rd the elections that night , and I saw that President Trump won , which was great , which made a lot of sense to me .
And then the next morning , like 7 , 8 a.m. , and I don ’ t know if it was Michigan or I don ’ t know which swing state it was , but I ’ m sitting down in front of my computer and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ votes , which is thin , but he ’ s ahead .
I get up and go to get some coffee .
I ’ m not gone five minutes and I come back and Trump ’ s down 10,000 votes and I ’ m thinking to myself , “ Wait a second , it never goes that fast .
It ’ s a little votes here , a little there , regardless of which guy is going to go ahead or drop behind.
” And it reminded me of , and the reason @ @ @ @ @ @ @ up is because we ’ re going to get into technology just for a second , there was a movie in the ’ 80s called “ Ferris Bueller ’ s Day Off.
” And the stories about this kid that was one of the first kids in the ’ 80s to get a PC .
He ’ s skipping school and his mom was calling to the principal and the principal ’ s looking online and sees the kid ’ s missed 10 days of school .
Then they flip to the kid @ @ @ @ @ @ @ how he can adjust that amount .
And he changes it and the amount starts going down from 10 to one .
And so as this principal is talking to his mom on the phone , that principal sees the number go 10 , nine , eight , seven , six , five , four , three , two , one , and then freezes at one .
And the principal , the look in his eyes , like , “ How can this be ?
This is impossible.
” This is 35 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ movie , but 35 years later , 2020 , that came to my mind .
As I watched Trump go from ahead to behind in a certain state and I thought of that movie and I thought , “ Wait a second , if a kid can do this in a silly movie in 1985 , holy cow , what in the world can technology do ?
” Bluey : I can say that we appreciate the work that you ’ re doing as one of the soldiers out there doing a battle @ @ @ @ @ @ @ social media platforms .
And as we wrap up today , I just want to say how thankful we are to you for sharing your story .
I think it ’ s really insightful to hear from somebody who ’ s a survivor of COVID and for you to share your advice with other Americans .
Hopefully , they can make a plan and be prepared if they do , unfortunately , contract the virus .
We hope that you and your wife enjoy the holiday season here and you ’ re healthy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ time with your family .
Muench : I appreciate that .
Can I make one shameless plug ?
Muench : And I mean this , when people contact me , people that don ’ t know me , they ’ ll say , “ I want the real news .
I want the real news .
Where can I get it ?
” And without a doubt , I just send them [ to ] dailysignal.com .
And I ’ m not saying that to puff you up or puff up your staff @ @ @ @ @ @ @ facts without the bias and the rub and all that kind of stuff , and I appreciate that and I appreciate being a small part of it .

Allen Muench was fighting for his life when he checked into the hospital in November with COVID-19. After just 36 hours under the care of his doctors and nurses, Muench says he “felt like a new person.”
Muench, a longtime Daily Signal subscriber from St. Louis, joins the show to share his personal experience with the novel coronavirus and how Americans should prepare in case they become infected. He also explains why he’s thankful for President Donald Trump’s leadership during the pandemic.
Listen to the podcast below or read the lightly edited transcript.
Rob Bluey: We are joined on “The Daily Signal Podcast” today by Allen Muench, a longtime Daily Signal subscriber from St. Louis, Missouri. Allen is also a COVID-19 survivor, having recently battled the virus alongside his wife. Allen, welcome to the show.
Allen Muench: Thank you, Rob. Glad to be here.
Bluey: You and I first connected way back in 2016 after I attended a meeting with Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg, and I believe you saw some news about that and you wrote to me at that time because you were facing censorship from Facebook on your posts. And I’d like to come back to that and talk about it in a moment.
But first, I want to hear more about your story and your battle with COVID-19. And I think it’s so important because in a country of more than 330 million Americans, we now have more than 14 million who have had COVID and you’re one of them. But many people might not have any firsthand experience. So can you take us back and explain how you believe you contracted the virus and what it was like initially?
Muench: First of all, I just wanted to say, I’m not a medical expert. I’m not a COVID-19 expert. I am just sharing my account of what happened a few weeks ago in November.
Wednesdays we always have our grandchild and we usually try to take him to one of those parks with all the playground equipment. And this was a newer one that we’ve been to and they had some low-hanging bars, steel bars.
And when you’re chasing your grandchildren, you’re usually watching them, you’re not looking up. And unfortunately, my wife ran into one, hit her in the forehead, and she felt that it was a pretty good hit. So that night she was concerned about that she might have, from the hit, what you would call it?
Bluey: A concussion?
Muench: A concussion. Yes, thank you. I’m still dealing with the COVID fog myself.
So anyway, we went to a local hospital here, a great hospital in St. Louis. Actually, in St. Charles. St. Charles is next to St. Louis County. And she was a negative for the concussion, but it was two days later I showed signs of COVID and then the next day after that I got tested at our local hospital. And then it was Sunday, I think around Nov. 14, that I got the diagnosis of COVID.
So basically, we got it at an ER, we had our mask on, every place in the world is social distancing now, so they were doing all the right things. So we got it.
The bizarre thing, if I can get into this, Rob, is this is not the flu we all got five or 10 years ago where you get a stomach ache and a headache and a fever and it goes away in a few days. This thing has a mind of its own.
I started out not too bad, coughs and chills, Day One and Two, things like that, maybe a little stomach problem. And then Day Three, nothing at all. I felt great. I’m painting, Day Three and Four, a portrait of our grandchildren and feeling guilty because everybody else that has COVID is suffering, but that was short lived.
On about Day Five, then more symptoms came back. Bizarre. I had the brain fog. I had a rash. It was about a 6-by-6 rash on my hip. No appetite. Runny nose. And everybody’s symptoms, from what doctors tell me, are different than someone else’s. So then, was it Day Five or Six, things subsided and you’d have a good morning and a bad afternoon, or something like that.
And then I got close to Day Seven and Eight and it wasn’t too bad. And I’m thinking, “I’m going to get out of this. I’m going to beat COVID.” And then it got into my lungs. And I’m a high risk, I’ve had double pneumonia. So it was [a few] weeks ago on a Sunday morning, middle of the night. And Joni had COVID too, my wife. So she wasn’t feeling well. So I just basically wrapped up my phone and a charger and drove to the emergency room.
And I’m not saying this to be dramatic, but I was so weak and so tired, before I could even put the key in the car, I kind of hunched over the console and slept for a couple of minutes. That’s how weak it is, but I didn’t want to get an Uber driver sick or anything like that. So I thought, “I got to get there on my own.”
I drove there about 1 a.m. and within not very too long, they realized that I was dealing with pneumonia and they’re X-raying and blood tests, all that kind of stuff.
Very quickly they had a plan in place and they said, “We’re going to give you remdesivir and Decadron to help you breathe and we’re going to admit you in the middle of the night.”
I did ask the doctor then, because we’re all kind of curious of this, how this flu spreads. And when I said, “Hey, I was here a week ago with the concussion issue and I had this social distancing. I had the mask.” And the doctor almost smiled and he goes, “Sir,” he said, “this thing can travel 30, 40 feet at a time. It can pierce through a mask with ease.”
He said, “We’re all trying to do what we can do, but especially in a hospital atmosphere where there’s a lot of germs floating around,” he said, “there’s hardly any way that you can stop it.”
They admitted me, they got me on the good drugs. And by the end of that Sunday, 20, 22 hours later, I was already starting to see my oxygen levels rise and starting to feel a little better.
But because I have two nurses a day, I was able to talk to them and just get the inside story because all I had heard up until before I got in the hospital was what you saw on the news and it seemed to be very dubious of what they were saying. …
Oh, by the way, these nurses were incredible, it’s part of the BJC system here in St. Louis, and [they were] confident and took care of me. They did everything they could. They had no fear in them.
Most of them have already had the COVID because that’s where they work and it’s probably in the air stream. And so then they’re going home and they’re dealing with it.
Probably if they’re younger, they live with their parents and [are] giving it to their parents. And if they they’re older and they have a family, they’re giving it to the husband. So they had a lot of stories to share.
I had 12 symptoms and maybe zero of them were the same as some of the nurses. One nurse just had a bad back, bad headache, and one other thing, and she was sleeping 22 hours a day for about a week in her 20s, so she’s a healthy person, before she started to come around.
So every time I would share my symptoms with somebody else, especially this patch I had, looked like I scraped myself or something, they just looked at me, rolled their eyes, and then they would share what they had. And the word I heard the most from doctors and nurses was the word, “It’s unpredictable.”
Bluey: Well, it certainly seems that way, Al. You were keeping in touch with me throughout this. I think that you first told me back in mid-November, and you told me you had COVID, you were on Day Four, the symptoms were pretty minimal. You shared how you thought it had happened.
A few days later, you checked in, I think it was on Tuesday, Nov. 19, and you said you’re feeling fine—you’ve had the flu, that’s been worse than this. And then I didn’t hear from you for several days. And the next thing I know you, you tell me you’ve been to the ER.
Fortunately, at that point, you’d turned the corner and you’d you come off the oxygen and you felt better. It just is really unbelievable to hear this story about how dramatically it can change just within a 24-hour period.
When you decided to go to the hospital, what were your thinking? Are you in a state of mind where you’re not sure you’re going to come out of this, or you’ve got a lot of hope that they can get you the drugs that you need to bounce back?
Muench: Well, normally I’m a “walk it off” guy, whatever, because I don’t like to run to the doctor for every little scratch and sniffle I get. But 24 hours or 36 hours before I went to the ER, my wife knew my cough wasn’t good. And she kept saying, “You need to go, you need to go.” And I kept thinking, “Well, I’m almost at this 10-day period of being out of this, maybe.”
But since I had double pneumonia and I knew what it felt like, that’s what I was feeling the night before I drove. So I purposely waited until 1 a.m. because I wanted the ER room to clear out so I could get all the care I could. So that’s why I waited as long as I did.
But no, I knew what double pneumonia felt like and I knew I probably had it and knew that I had to throw in the towel and not be such a tough guy and go in there.
Bluey: You told me that you’d like to personally thank President [Donald] Trump for his response to COVID-19. Of course, the president himself battled COVID. What’s your message that you want other Americans to hear based on your own experience and why you credit President Trump?
Muench: Real quickly, before I voted for him in a primary in 2016, and I think my wife was a [Sen. Ted] Cruz guy at the time, we were driving to the primary and I only knew what everybody else saw in the newspapers and TV show and Oprah and all that stuff. And I remember looking at it, I said, “Vote for who you want to vote for, but this guy gets the job done and he’s a winner.” I’ll never forget telling her that.
There’s no doubt. And I’m not saying this to flatter him or flirt or make conservatives feel, well, the guy to me is part genius and he’s a hard patriot worker. And from that, what I feel they developed—now, I’ve had seven, eight, nine months for the hospitals to get a reactionary program going.
In that time they found the right drugs; super confident, everybody in the system, this BJC hospital I went to. And it’s like when you walk on an airplane, you want to look at a pilot that you know is going to get you from A to B safely. And when you look at these doctors and they’re so confident, to me that’s the beginning of the healing process: “OK, I don’t know what they’re going to do, but they’re going to do the right thing and they’re going to get me healed.”
Anyway, I feel the credit starts at the top and I believe and I watched some of those sessions back in March, April, and May. And I know not everyone was on board with President Trump, but I’m a survivor and I think that the system they set up … Now, there’s two different things going on.
I got the Cadillac drugs, the remdesivir and the Decadron. My wife didn’t. When I was in the hospital and getting these IV drips for four days, she did drive herself to the ER and she did not have pneumonia. And I don’t know how they do the rules with the drugs and all that, but they sent her home and she was not feeling well when she drove there.
I wasn’t home. She was kind of on her own and she explained to me, she was so tired she couldn’t even take her coat off when she got home. She just slept for hours and hours. And it was hard for her to even take care of herself because you get so weak you can barely move.
In that case, I have to give more thanks, President Trump, because whether you are for or against the drug, the hydroxychloroquine, that seemed to be the only option left.
And as I watched the few days before we got that medication, she wasn’t moving, just coughing and writhing in pain. And it was frightening because normally we can call a doctor and get something for our loved one or ourself or whatever, and I couldn’t do anything.
We’d call the ER and they’d say, “Well, you can bring her in, but if she doesn’t have pneumonia or something, we’ll send her home.” And that wasn’t a good enough answer.
Anyway, it was [about] a week ago, Sunday or Saturday night, we secured hydroxychloroquine, and you take two pills a day. And it was about Day Three—so more or less Sunday, Monday, something like that—where we finally started to see her make some improvement. And I can honestly tell you, it saved her life.
Bluey: Al, we’ve been praying for you and her throughout these past few weeks. And it’s just a blessing to talk to you today and hear that you both are doing better.
It’s scary. It’s no doubt scary. I’ve had family members impacted by it and I think that one of the things that you said to me is, “Don’t be scared, seek help if you’re in a situation where you need it.”
What is your advice to other Americans who might find themselves in a position similar to yours? Having lived through it, what do you want them to know?
Muench: Have a plan. This thing’s going to spread. I hope nobody else gets it, but it’s a pandemic. So it’s very obvious that it’s going to slowly effect—whether they’re asymptomatic or you get the full COVID-19 like I did or my wife did. Have a plan.
And we’re both in our 60s. So we weren’t able to bounce back as quickly as someone in their 20s or 30s, although those people are having issues themselves.
But if you’re alone, make sure you have someone that you think could come in and help you because there was a time where my wife couldn’t hold a cup of coffee, and thus, she’s not going to be able to take [her pills]. People can’t take pills and fix meals and all that kind of stuff and take care of themselves. So have a plan.
And I’m not trying to scare anybody. I’m just saying it would really help to know that if you can’t move, you can barely roll over in bed, that a loved one or a friend or someone that’s capable of doing this can come in your house and help you.
As far as the medications are concerned, I want to say I was fortunate enough because I had pneumonia to get these Cadillac drugs … remdesivir and the Decadron. My wife wasn’t. So there’s an example where one spouse got it, got better quickly, and the other spouse didn’t qualify.
So I know the hydroxychloroquine, there’s a lot of people not sure what they think about it. And a lot of people, because it has Trump’s fingerprint on it, are probably not going to even consider it.
But in the long run, I would say if you can find a conservative doctor that will prescribe it for you, if, unfortunately, you need it, by all means, don’t wait a second—get it.
Now, there are doctors on the internet—and it’s no different than any other e-visit that we’ve all done in the last year—and they will make a diagnosis over the internet. And if you qualify, they’ll send you the prescription. So what I’m saying here, and I’m not trying to scare anybody, Rob, but have a plan.
Bluey: I think it’s so important to have a plan. And now the story began, obviously, with you and your wife taking care of your grandchild. How has it impacted your family? And obviously, we’re in a time when families are getting together for the holidays. And so what’s it been like for the family to support you throughout this?
Muench: A lot of WhatsApp, a lot of Zoom. I wouldn’t let anyone I know or love anywhere near my house right now. Right now, we’re fine and we’re past the point where there’s no more germs. But I wouldn’t let anybody I know near the house.
A couple of relatives have been kind enough to drop something off on the porch and that’s fine. So we’re trying to keep it as dichotic as we [can].
As far as Christmas, all the ornaments and everything in the basement won’t come be coming up this year. We’ve got one little plant that we put out. So Thanksgiving was pretty much zilch and Christmas is pretty much just going to be just happy to be together.
Bluey: Yes, I certainly understand. Thank you so much for sharing that.
As I promised at the top of the interview, I did want to give you an opportunity to talk about something else that is a bond that you and I have dating back now over four years, and that’s social media. You are a prolific user of social media to get the good news out, to spread the conservative message to an audience that you grew organically.
And I think it’s really frustrating for me to see individuals like you face challenges of censorship from platforms like Facebook, when in fact, as a retired accountant, you’re certainly not a powerful politician or somebody who has the means to go toe to toe with Mark Zuckerberg in a congressional hearing.
Can you share some of the challenges that you faced and you continue to face with social media?
Muench: Sure, sure. The first thing, even though I put President Trump at the top of the mountain and halfway up the mountain and I’m down in the trenches with all the patriotic Americans, is that I look at it and I compare …
I’ve put about 12,000 hours into the 2016 and 2020 election. It’s a lot of hours, but that’s what it’s taking to get him to the finish line. And I look at it as just a big old towing chain.
If someone’s going to tow your car out of a rut, I’m just one of those chains, Rob. I’m just one little chain and that’s it. That’s how I see myself. But if you take that chain and these other people I deal with around our country and around the world and you link all those chains together, you can pull a car out of a ditch and that’s what it’s had to take.
And as far as social media, before Trump won in 2016, the social media platforms—Twitter, Facebook, Instagram—were pretty much like the wild, Wild West. They didn’t see a Trump victory coming so they really didn’t have too much of an eye on us. And we just had a heyday trying to push our narrative of the truth and the real news. …
The reason I’m bringing this up is, when I’ve had a good meme, a good post, a typical post would be maybe a 70,000 reach, which is not bad. But on a real good post on a given day, I could get half a million to a million people reach, which is pretty good. And so the run-up to 2016, we were pretty wide open.
As soon as he won, we’re talking [within] hours, there was a stranglehold put on us that you wouldn’t believe and there are times now where a reach of 200 or 300 people is a big day. Every once in a while, I can get one through if the key thing’s on a good meme, or if it’s topical, it’s a point of the day, very clean and clever, people like funny things. So we try to make them funny.
And then the other part is the groups. Obviously, there’s many, many, many liberal and conservative groups. So the more we can share these with, the better chance that they’ll share them and they’ll share them and things like that.
So what we’ve seen since 2016 is just an elaborate—I don’t know how to put this because I got to be careful because these guys like to … deactivate accounts. But I brought in the fact-checkers and I think I was part of that, talking to that attorney.
Bluey: As were we at The Daily Signal. We know all too well about that.
Muench: OK. So the fact-checkers, you just have to deal with them. My favorite label they put on is “out of context.” And I’m thinking to myself, “Out of context is what the internet is. Nothing is really for real on the internet.”
They have all kinds of little labels they like and I think they feel that the labels will slow somebody down or maybe keep them from clicking on the post to look at it.
Most people nowadays, even the comments, I had one this morning, or Facebook slapped a label on it about all their election results and predictions and all that. … And so people leave a comment, “Come on, Facebook. Come on, Instagram, or whoever.” But that’s the cards we’re dealt with, Rob. And so I try not to complain about it too much.
I just try to make things more clever. I’ve created probably over 12,000 memes in that six-year period and I’ve made tons of friends. Rob, there are so many incredible patriotic people in the United States that I work with. I just can’t sing their praises enough.
Not only that, there are people around the world that I stay in contact with—U.K., South Africa, South America, Australia. And the crazy thing is they know more about our political system than I do. It’s incredible.
And there was a lady from Australia. … She would post, because of the time difference, she saw I was asleep all night. And I said to her, I said, “Why? Why are you doing this?” And she said, “Al,” she goes, “the way the United States goes is the way the world goes.” And I said, “OK, well, that’s great.”
We have a great system and I’m seeing more ghosting now than I used to see. I used to see most ghosting on Twitter, but now I’m seeing it with that CEO you met, and I can post to several groups and look hours later and see no comments or notifications from any of those groups and I know that I posted to them. So be that as it may.
I run into things like that. And it’s just kind of crazy. So we’re just dealing the best we can.
The nice part was that I watched on November 3rd the elections that night, and I saw that President Trump won, which was great, which made a lot of sense to me. And then the next morning, like 7, 8 a.m., and I don’t know if it was Michigan or I don’t know which swing state it was, but I’m sitting down in front of my computer and I see Trump’s ahead 30,000 votes, which is thin, but he’s ahead.
I get up and go to get some coffee. I’m not gone five minutes and I come back and Trump’s down 10,000 votes and I’m thinking to myself, “Wait a second, it never goes that fast. It’s a little votes here, a little there, regardless of which guy is going to go ahead or drop behind.”
And it reminded me of, and the reason I’m going to bring this up is because we’re going to get into technology just for a second, there was a movie in the ’80s called “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off.” And the stories about this kid that was one of the first kids in the ’80s to get a PC.
He’s skipping school and his mom was calling to the principal and the principal’s looking online and sees the kid’s missed 10 days of school. Then they flip to the kid at home and he’s showing how he can adjust that amount.
And he changes it and the amount starts going down from 10 to one. And so as this principal is talking to his mom on the phone, that principal sees the number go 10, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one, and then freezes at one. And the principal, the look in his eyes, like, “How can this be? This is impossible.”
This is 35 years ago. It was a silly movie, but 35 years later, 2020, that came to my mind. As I watched Trump go from ahead to behind in a certain state and I thought of that movie and I thought, “Wait a second, if a kid can do this in a silly movie in 1985, holy cow, what in the world can technology do?”
Bluey: I can say that we appreciate the work that you’re doing as one of the soldiers out there doing a battle every day with creative content on these social media platforms.
And as we wrap up today, I just want to say how thankful we are to you for sharing your story. I think it’s really insightful to hear from somebody who’s a survivor of COVID and for you to share your advice with other Americans. Hopefully, they can make a plan and be prepared if they do, unfortunately, contract the virus.
We hope that you and your wife enjoy the holiday season here and you’re healthy and you get to spend some quality time with your family.
Muench: I appreciate that. Can I make one shameless plug?
Bluey: Absolutely.
Muench: And I mean this, when people contact me, people that don’t know me, they’ll say, “I want the real news. I want the real news. Where can I get it?” And without a doubt, I just send them [to] dailysignal.com.
And I’m not saying that to puff you up or puff up your staff, but you guys just present the facts without the bias and the rub and all that kind of stuff, and I appreciate that and I appreciate being a small part of it.
Thanks, Rob. Merry Christmas.


dailysignal--2020-12-07--These 3 Presidential Elections Also Went Into Overtime. Here’s How They Were Resolved.

Donald Trump and Joe Biden will have to get in line for bragging rights .
This fall ’ s presidential election , the results of which the Trump campaign continues to challenge in key battleground states , is hardly the first national election that went into overtime .
As I examined in my book “ Tainted by Suspicion : The Secret Deals and Electoral Chaos of Disputed Presidential Elections , ” American history has logged four other times when a presidential election was litigated , through courts or Congress , long after Election Day .
In 2000 , Republican George @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in a 36-day struggle over the election results .
That was short compared to 1876 , when Republican Rutherford B. Hayes and Democrat Samuel Tilden continued to clash from November to March of 1877 before the election was settled—on the cusp of what was then Inauguration Day for the president .
The 1824 contest , with multiple candidates and one party , came down to John Quincy Adams and Andrew Jackson and it wasn ’ t decided in the House of Representatives until February 1825 .
The situation in 1800 was different , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ his vice presidential running mate , Aaron Burr , got the same number of electoral votes for president .
The House settled the matter after 36 votes , giving the presidency to Jefferson , and the 12th Amendment to the Constitution later prevented a recurrence .
Here are adapted excerpts from “ Tainted by Suspicion ” explaining how the other three presidential elections were settled .
On Dec. 1 , 1800 , the Electoral College announced the results .
Andrew Jackson won the most Electoral College votes , 99 , to 84 for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ didn ’ t have the majority of electoral votes , then 131 , that he needed .
Despite coming in last in the popular vote , William Crawford actually would beat Henry Clay in the Electoral College , 41 votes to Clay ’ s 37 .
Clay , the House speaker , no longer would compete for the presidency in the House of Representatives , because the 12th Amendment states that the House decides only among the top three candidates .
Officially , Crawford was in contention in the House , but it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Jackson .
Before the vote , a Philadelphia newspaper , the Columbian Observer , published an anonymous letter Jan. 28 claiming that Clay would back Adams in return for being named secretary of state .
Clay strongly denied this .
In fact , two meetings occurred between Adams and Clay , on Jan. 9 and Jan. 29 , 1825 .
Nevertheless , there was not a lot of reason to believe Clay was divided in his loyalty .
He and Adams saw eye to eye for the most part on infrastructure , tariffs @ @ @ @ @ @ @ House convened Feb. 9 , 1825 , each state having a single vote that would be determined by a majority vote of its delegation .
This time was less dramatic than in 1800 .
This time it didn ’ t take 36 ballots , just one .
And this time a candidate named Adams prevailed .
Clay directed Kentucky , Missouri , and Ohio—the states he won—to the Adams camp .
Most of Clay ’ s supporters as well as the remaining Federalists backed Adams in the House , enough to give him @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of three states that Jackson carried—Illinois , Louisiana , and Maryland—went to Adams .
This gave Adams a majority of 13 out of 24 states .
Though not the first president elected after a drawn-out process , Adams was the only president to assume office without a majority of electoral votes .
In a dour response , Adams said he regretted that there could not be a do-over by submitting the “ decision of this momentous question ” again , “ to obtain a nearer approach to unanimity.
” Adams actually had wanted @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , but Jackson had other plans for the next four years—running for president .
On Feb. 14 , Clay accepted the offer of President-elect Adams to serve as his secretary of state—presumably making him the heir apparent since the last four men to lead the State Department became president .
Jackson and his supporters immediately called this a “ corrupt bargain ” between Adams and Clay .
“ The Judas of the West has closed the contract and will receive the thirty pieces of silver .
His end will be the same , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
2 .
Hayes , Tilden , and the End of Reconstruction On Jan. 25 , 1877 , the Senate voted 47-17 to set up an Electoral Commission with five senators , five House members , and five Supreme Court justices to resolve the contest between Rutherford B. Hayes and Samuel Tilden .
Under the proposal , a decision by the bipartisan commission would be final unless it was overridden by both houses of Congress .
A day later , the House voted 191-86 to pass the bill , and lame-duck President Ulysses @ @ @ @ @ @ @ In a letter to Senate and House leaders asking for leave , the five House members and five senators said the makeup of the commission would be viewed as nearly incorruptible , both in fact and perception .
Some Republicans believed the Reconstruction governments in the Southern states could assure a Hayes victory .
Radical Republicans argued intensely that Senate President Pro Tempore Thomas Ferry , R-Mich. , had the sole constitutional authority to certify the presidential election and anything short of that would be a cave to the Democrats .
Democrats , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they wanted regarding the process , with a joint session of Congress making the final call .
Supreme Court Justice Nathan Clifford , a Democrat , would serve as chairman of the Electoral Commission .
The panel also included Justice David Davis , a Republican but a very independent one .
With 15 members , the Electoral Commission was to have seven Republicans , seven Democrats , and one independent , Davis , who likely would be the tie breaker if things became too partisan .
However , the Illinois state Legislature ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ make Davis the state ’ s new U.S. senator .
Illinois Democrats thought it would sway his vote to Tilden on the commission .
But Davis announced that with his resignation from the high court , he could not serve on the commission as the fifth justice .
It was a spectacular backfire by Democrats and a defining moment in the election dispute .
Justice Joseph Bradley , a Republican , replaced the independent Davis .
It was the first day of February when the commission convened in the Supreme Court chamber .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ , argued for allowing only evidence that previously had been submitted to Congress .
Evarts ’ argument was largely a practical one—that investigating the Florida vote at the county and local level would drag on and not wrap up in time for inaugurating a new president in March .
His opponent in this case , Democratic counsel Charles O ’ Conor , argued for admitting additional evidence to make the case that Tilden carried Florida .
In what would be a series of party-line votes of 8-7 , Bradley tipped the scale to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ vote was a day later—giving Florida ’ s four electoral votes to Hayes .
When the Florida vote went to Congress , the Republican-controlled Senate voted to affirm Florida for Hayes and the Democratic-controlled House voted to reject the Electoral Commission ’ s findings .
Democrats perceived they had a shot in Louisiana .
Unofficial returns there gave Democrats a big win , which warranted hearing more evidence .
The returning board that certified votes for the state was made up of Republicans .
It was nevertheless as impractical to do a county-by-county @ @ @ @ @ @ @ been in Florida , if a president were to be named by early March .
On mostly technical and practical grounds , the commission cast another 8-7 vote , giving Louisiana to Hayes .
South Carolina by this time was almost a formality .
Hayes began working on his inaugural address Feb. 17 .
The only hope Democrats had was to delay the inevitable decision and threaten chaos after March 4 , with no president in office .
House Speaker Samuel J. Randall , a Pennsylvania Democrat , led the effort .
In @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to award Oregon ’ s single disputed vote to Hayes .
Again , the Republican Senate approved the finding while the Democratic House rejected it .
In the midst of the proceedings , the House adopted a resolution declaring that Tilden was the “ duly elected president.
” On Feb. 26 , 1877 , the Electoral Commission heard lawyers ’ arguments on South Carolina .
That night , four Southern Democrats—Reps .
John Y .
Brown and Henry Watterson of Kentucky , Sen. J.B. Gordon of Georgia , and Rep. W.M .
Levy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Wormley House hotel in Washington : Reps. James Garfield and Charles Foster , Sen. Stanley Matthews , and Sen.-elect John Sherman .
Their goal : to see if a deal could be reached to prevent House Democrats from blocking the results .
By morning , the lawmakers agreed to stop House Democrats ’ delay tactics blocking certification of the Electoral Commission ’ s findings , on the condition of ending Reconstruction , appointing a Southern Democrat to the Cabinet , and providing federal money for projects in the South .
This was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Compromise of 1877 , which diluted Democratic Party unity .
The next day , the commission—in another 8-7 party line vote—awarded South Carolina ’ s seven electoral votes to Hayes , which the Senate affirmed and the House rejected one day later .
Congress came into session at 10 a.m. March 1 and went through the night .
Democrats kept making motions to further delay with various parliamentary motions to reconsider , to call the roll , to recess—anything to push it a few more days and make Republicans sweat .
Randall , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this time it was pointless and refused to entertain any of the mundane motions .
At 4:10 a.m. March 2 , the final obstacle to debate was cleared and the joint session declared Hayes the president with the bare minimum of 185 electoral votes to the Democratic ticket ’ s 184 electoral votes .
Al Gore ’ s legal team in Florida , led by former Secretary of State Warren Christopher , requested a hand recount of ballots in the Democratic strongholds of Palm Beach , Miami-Dade , Broward , and Volusia counties @ @ @ @ @ @ @ happy to pitch in to produce a Gore presidency .
Gore had 266 electoral votes .
George W. Bush had 246 .
The 20-vote spread in the Electoral College was not that different from the Hayes-Tilden impasse .
On Thursday , Nov. 9 , the completed tally showed Bush leading by 1,784 votes out of nearly 6 million votes cast in Florida , narrow enough to trigger an automatic machine recount in all 67 counties under state law .
When the machine recount was completed , Bush ’ s lead was slashed to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ more votes for Gore would require hand-counting ballots .
This whole ordeal presented a new glossary of terminology such as butterfly ballots and chads ( hanging , dimpled pregnant , and other varieties ) .
Florida ’ s top election official , Secretary of State Katherine Harris , gave counties until 2 p.m. Nov. 15 to provide reasons why they would need to conduct another recount .
On that day , Harris turned down requests from both Broward and Palm Beach counties to conduct hand recounts .
With the backing of the Gore @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to the Florida Supreme Court , where all seven justices were Democratic appointees .
The state ’ s high court sided with the counties and permitted manual recounts in both Palm Beach and Broward to go forward .
Bush ’ s attorneys appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court , saying Florida ’ s high court rewrote state election law , usurping the authority of the Florida Legislature to determine presidential electors .
That ’ s because the Constitution granted only state legislatures the right to select electors .
The Bush team also argued @ @ @ @ @ @ @ violation of the one-man , one-vote principle of the 14th Amendment because the votes in Miami-Dade , Broward , Palm Beach , and Volusia counties would value the votes of those four counties over the missing votes of Florida ’ s 63 other counties .
The justices agreed to hear Bush ’ s appeal of the Florida court ’ s ruling .
On Nov. 26 , the deadline day , Harris declared Bush to be the winner by 537 votes more than Gore .
As December began , the Bush team argued before @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Supreme Court acted improperly .
On Dec. 4 , the justices ordered Florida ’ s high court to clarify its ruling on expanding the certification date .
In a 5-4 ruling , the justices halted the hand recount pending a hearing .
Gore appealed Dec. 6 , asking the Florida Supreme Court for immediate hand recounts in Miami-Dade and Palm Beach counties .
On Dec. 8 , that court voted 4-3 to order immediate hand recounts of all undervotes , ballots in the state with no presidential vote recorded .
The court in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for in a decision that provided him with what probably would be 215 votes in Palm Beach County ( the canvassing board found only 174 votes ) and another 168 votes in Miami-Dade County .
Further , the court allowed 9,000 votes to be recounted .
The majority opinion made no reference to the U.S. Supreme Court ’ s vacating the earlier ruling .
This concerned Gore campaign operative Ron Klain , who feared the U.S. justices would see it as an insult .
The expedited cases of Bush v. Palm Beach County @ @ @ @ @ @ @ both having reached the U.S. Supreme Court , became the case of Bush v. Gore .
The lawyers filed briefs Dec. 10 and made oral arguments Dec. 11 .
The high court waited until 10 p.m. Dec. 12 , two hours before the deadline .
The court ’ s conservative justices , joined by liberals David Souter and Stephen Breyer , sided with Bush in a 7-2 ruling that counting only selected areas of the state violated the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution ’ s 14th Amendment .
“ Seven Justices of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ problems with the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court that demand a remedy , ” the decision reads .
Although seven of the nine justices sided with Bush on the equal protection argument , four liberals insisted that Florida should be given more time to count the votes .
That ’ s where the often-repeated reference to a 5-4 ruling comes from .
This is not to dismiss the secondary ruling .
Equal protection was the core of the case , but a 5-4 vote stopped the recount .
Bush won the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s 266 votes .

Donald Trump and Joe Biden will have to get in line for bragging rights. This fall’s presidential election, the results of which the Trump campaign continues to challenge in key battleground states, is hardly the first national election that went into overtime.
As I examined in my book “Tainted by Suspicion: The Secret Deals and Electoral Chaos of Disputed Presidential Elections,” American history has logged four other times when a presidential election was litigated, through courts or Congress, long after Election Day.
In 2000, Republican George W. Bush and Democrat Al Gore engaged in a 36-day struggle over the election results.
That was short compared to 1876, when Republican Rutherford B. Hayes and Democrat Samuel Tilden continued to clash from November to March of 1877 before the election was settled—on the cusp of what was then Inauguration Day for the president.
The 1824 contest, with multiple candidates and one party, came down to John Quincy Adams and Andrew Jackson and it wasn’t decided in the House of Representatives until February 1825.
The situation in 1800 was different, though. Presidential candidate Thomas Jefferson and his vice presidential running mate, Aaron Burr, got the same number of electoral votes for president. The House settled the matter after 36 votes, giving the presidency to Jefferson, and the 12th Amendment to the Constitution later prevented a recurrence.
Here are adapted excerpts from “Tainted by Suspicion” explaining how the other three presidential elections were settled.
1. Adams, Jackson, and ‘Corrupt Bargain’ of 1824
On Dec. 1, 1800, the Electoral College announced the results. Andrew Jackson won the most Electoral College votes, 99, to 84 for John Quincy Adams. However, Jackson didn’t have the majority of electoral votes, then 131, that he needed.
Despite coming in last in the popular vote, William Crawford actually would beat Henry Clay in the Electoral College, 41 votes to Clay’s 37.
Clay, the House speaker, no longer would compete for the presidency in the House of Representatives, because the 12th Amendment states that the House decides only among the top three candidates. Officially, Crawford was in contention in the House, but it was really a contest between Adams and Jackson.
Before the vote, a Philadelphia newspaper, the Columbian Observer, published an anonymous letter Jan. 28 claiming that Clay would back Adams in return for being named secretary of state. Clay strongly denied this.
In fact, two meetings occurred between Adams and Clay, on Jan. 9 and Jan. 29, 1825. Nevertheless, there was not a lot of reason to believe Clay was divided in his loyalty. He and Adams saw eye to eye for the most part on infrastructure, tariffs, and the National Bank.
The House convened Feb. 9, 1825, each state having a single vote that would be determined by a majority vote of its delegation. This time was less dramatic than in 1800. This time it didn’t take 36 ballots, just one. And this time a candidate named Adams prevailed.
Clay directed Kentucky, Missouri, and Ohio—the states he won—to the Adams camp. Most of Clay’s supporters as well as the remaining Federalists backed Adams in the House, enough to give him a single-vote victory.
The House delegations of three states that Jackson carried—Illinois, Louisiana, and Maryland—went to Adams. This gave Adams a majority of 13 out of 24 states.
Though not the first president elected after a drawn-out process, Adams was the only president to assume office without a majority of electoral votes.
In a dour response, Adams said he regretted that there could not be a do-over by submitting the “decision of this momentous question” again, “to obtain a nearer approach to unanimity.”
Adams actually had wanted to name Jackson as secretary of war, but Jackson had other plans for the next four years—running for president.
On Feb. 14, Clay accepted the offer of President-elect Adams to serve as his secretary of state—presumably making him the heir apparent since the last four men to lead the State Department became president. Jackson and his supporters immediately called this a “corrupt bargain” between Adams and Clay.
“The Judas of the West has closed the contract and will receive the thirty pieces of silver. His end will be the same,” Jackson said, referring to Clay.
2. Hayes, Tilden, and the End of Reconstruction
On Jan. 25, 1877, the Senate voted 47-17 to set up an Electoral Commission with five senators, five House members, and five Supreme Court justices to resolve the contest between Rutherford B. Hayes and Samuel Tilden.
Under the proposal, a decision by the bipartisan commission would be final unless it was overridden by both houses of Congress. A day later, the House voted 191-86 to pass the bill, and lame-duck President Ulysses S. Grant signed it Jan. 29.
In a letter to Senate and House leaders asking for leave, the five House members and five senators said the makeup of the commission would be viewed as nearly incorruptible, both in fact and perception.
Some Republicans believed the Reconstruction governments in the Southern states could assure a Hayes victory. Radical Republicans argued intensely that Senate President Pro Tempore Thomas Ferry, R-Mich., had the sole constitutional authority to certify the presidential election and anything short of that would be a cave to the Democrats.
Democrats, for the most part, got what they wanted regarding the process, with a joint session of Congress making the final call.
Supreme Court Justice Nathan Clifford, a Democrat, would serve as chairman of the Electoral Commission. The panel also included Justice David Davis, a Republican but a very independent one.
With 15 members, the Electoral Commission was to have seven Republicans, seven Democrats, and one independent, Davis, who likely would be the tie breaker if things became too partisan.
However, the Illinois state Legislature’s Democratic-Greenback coalition majority voted 101-99 to make Davis the state’s new U.S. senator. Illinois Democrats thought it would sway his vote to Tilden on the commission. But Davis announced that with his resignation from the high court, he could not serve on the commission as the fifth justice.
It was a spectacular backfire by Democrats and a defining moment in the election dispute. Justice Joseph Bradley, a Republican, replaced the independent Davis.
It was the first day of February when the commission convened in the Supreme Court chamber. The Republican lead counsel, William Evarts, argued for allowing only evidence that previously had been submitted to Congress.
Evarts’ argument was largely a practical one—that investigating the Florida vote at the county and local level would drag on and not wrap up in time for inaugurating a new president in March. His opponent in this case, Democratic counsel Charles O’Conor, argued for admitting additional evidence to make the case that Tilden carried Florida.
In what would be a series of party-line votes of 8-7, Bradley tipped the scale to block additional evidence. The next party-line vote was a day later—giving Florida’s four electoral votes to Hayes.
When the Florida vote went to Congress, the Republican-controlled Senate voted to affirm Florida for Hayes and the Democratic-controlled House voted to reject the Electoral Commission’s findings.
Democrats perceived they had a shot in Louisiana. Unofficial returns there gave Democrats a big win, which warranted hearing more evidence. The returning board that certified votes for the state was made up of Republicans.
It was nevertheless as impractical to do a county-by-county canvassing in Louisiana as it would have been in Florida, if a president were to be named by early March.
On mostly technical and practical grounds, the commission cast another 8-7 vote, giving Louisiana to Hayes. South Carolina by this time was almost a formality. Hayes began working on his inaugural address Feb. 17.
The only hope Democrats had was to delay the inevitable decision and threaten chaos after March 4, with no president in office. House Speaker Samuel J. Randall, a Pennsylvania Democrat, led the effort.
In late February, the commission voted 8-7 to award Oregon’s single disputed vote to Hayes. Again, the Republican Senate approved the finding while the Democratic House rejected it. In the midst of the proceedings, the House adopted a resolution declaring that Tilden was the “duly elected president.”
On Feb. 26, 1877, the Electoral Commission heard lawyers’ arguments on South Carolina. That night, four Southern Democrats—Reps. John Y. Brown and Henry Watterson of Kentucky, Sen. J.B. Gordon of Georgia, and Rep. W.M. Levy of Louisiana—met with four Ohio Republicans at the Wormley House hotel in Washington: Reps. James Garfield and Charles Foster, Sen. Stanley Matthews, and Sen.-elect John Sherman.
Their goal: to see if a deal could be reached to prevent House Democrats from blocking the results.
By morning, the lawmakers agreed to stop House Democrats’ delay tactics blocking certification of the Electoral Commission’s findings, on the condition of ending Reconstruction, appointing a Southern Democrat to the Cabinet, and providing federal money for projects in the South.
This was the framework of what would be the Compromise of 1877, which diluted Democratic Party unity.
The next day, the commission—in another 8-7 party line vote—awarded South Carolina’s seven electoral votes to Hayes, which the Senate affirmed and the House rejected one day later.
Congress came into session at 10 a.m. March 1 and went through the night. Democrats kept making motions to further delay with various parliamentary motions to reconsider, to call the roll, to recess—anything to push it a few more days and make Republicans sweat. Randall, the House speaker, even realized by this time it was pointless and refused to entertain any of the mundane motions.
At 4:10 a.m. March 2, the final obstacle to debate was cleared and the joint session declared Hayes the president with the bare minimum of 185 electoral votes to the Democratic ticket’s 184 electoral votes.
3. Bush, Gore, and the Supreme Court
Al Gore’s legal team in Florida, led by former Secretary of State Warren Christopher, requested a hand recount of ballots in the Democratic strongholds of Palm Beach, Miami-Dade, Broward, and Volusia counties.
Local governments in Democratic-run counties were happy to pitch in to produce a Gore presidency.
Gore had 266 electoral votes. George W. Bush had 246. The 20-vote spread in the Electoral College was not that different from the Hayes-Tilden impasse.
On Thursday, Nov. 9, the completed tally showed Bush leading by 1,784 votes out of nearly 6 million votes cast in Florida, narrow enough to trigger an automatic machine recount in all 67 counties under state law.
When the machine recount was completed, Bush’s lead was slashed to just 327 votes over Gore.
Finding more votes for Gore would require hand-counting ballots. This whole ordeal presented a new glossary of terminology such as butterfly ballots and chads (hanging, dimpled pregnant, and other varieties).
Florida’s top election official, Secretary of State Katherine Harris, gave counties until 2 p.m. Nov. 15 to provide reasons why they would need to conduct another recount.
On that day, Harris turned down requests from both Broward and Palm Beach counties to conduct hand recounts.
With the backing of the Gore campaign, the counties took their case to the Florida Supreme Court, where all seven justices were Democratic appointees. The state’s high court sided with the counties and permitted manual recounts in both Palm Beach and Broward to go forward.
Bush’s attorneys appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, saying Florida’s high court rewrote state election law, usurping the authority of the Florida Legislature to determine presidential electors. That’s because the Constitution granted only state legislatures the right to select electors.
The Bush team also argued that counting select Democratic counties was a violation of the one-man, one-vote principle of the 14th Amendment because the votes in Miami-Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, and Volusia counties would value the votes of those four counties over the missing votes of Florida’s 63 other counties.
The justices agreed to hear Bush’s appeal of the Florida court’s ruling. On Nov. 26, the deadline day, Harris declared Bush to be the winner by 537 votes more than Gore.
As December began, the Bush team argued before the U.S. Supreme Court that the Florida Supreme Court acted improperly. On Dec. 4, the justices ordered Florida’s high court to clarify its ruling on expanding the certification date. In a 5-4 ruling, the justices halted the hand recount pending a hearing.
Gore appealed Dec. 6, asking the Florida Supreme Court for immediate hand recounts in Miami-Dade and Palm Beach counties. On Dec. 8, that court voted 4-3 to order immediate hand recounts of all undervotes, ballots in the state with no presidential vote recorded.
The court in fact gave Gore more than he asked for in a decision that provided him with what probably would be 215 votes in Palm Beach County (the canvassing board found only 174 votes) and another 168 votes in Miami-Dade County.
Further, the court allowed 9,000 votes to be recounted. The majority opinion made no reference to the U.S. Supreme Court’s vacating the earlier ruling. This concerned Gore campaign operative Ron Klain, who feared the U.S. justices would see it as an insult.
The expedited cases of Bush v. Palm Beach County Canvassing Board and Gore v. Harris, both having reached the U.S. Supreme Court, became the case of Bush v. Gore. The lawyers filed briefs Dec. 10 and made oral arguments Dec. 11.
The high court waited until 10 p.m. Dec. 12, two hours before the deadline. The court’s conservative justices, joined by liberals David Souter and Stephen Breyer, sided with Bush in a 7-2 ruling that counting only selected areas of the state violated the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution’s 14th Amendment.
“Seven Justices of the Court agree that there are constitutional problems with the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court that demand a remedy,” the decision reads.
Although seven of the nine justices sided with Bush on the equal protection argument, four liberals insisted that Florida should be given more time to count the votes. That’s where the often-repeated reference to a 5-4 ruling comes from.
This is not to dismiss the secondary ruling. Equal protection was the core of the case, but a 5-4 vote stopped the recount.
Bush won the presidency with 271 electoral votes to Gore’s 266 votes.