therealnews--2020-03-12--UN List of Companies Exploiting Occupation of Palestine Hides Key Profiteers

Marc Steiner : Welcome to The Real News .
I ’ m Marc Steiner .
Good to have you with us .
In February , the United Nations Human Rights Committee published a list of 112 companies that profit from the Israeli occupation on Palestinian and Syrian land .
Now the colonization of occupied territory , and the exploitation of property and people in that territory , is prohibited by the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention .
It ’ s interesting to note that that convention was prompted , these international rules were prompted , because of the Nazi theft and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in large part .
The companies listed by the UN are all involved in activity benefiting from this illegal occupation and colonization of Palestinian land .
That makes them complicit in a war crime .
What will all that mean ?
We ’ re going to talk about .
The original list of companies was researched and completed three years ago , but it wasn ’ t published because of pressure from the United States and Israel to prevent the UN from releasing the original findings and data .
Now the list has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ known for their role in assisting the occupation , and destroying and exploiting Palestinian land , are missing from this list .
Rupert Colville is a spokesperson for the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights and tried to understate the importance of this list .
Let ’ s have a listen.Rupert Colville : We ’ re fully aware of the sensitivity of this report for people on all sides of the debate and for of course , the companies themselves , and for this reason , we ’ ve @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the remit set down for us by the Human Rights Council .
It ’ s important to note that it is not , as some claim , a blacklist , nor does it qualify any company ’ s activities as illegal .
Marc Steiner : As we verge on the abyss of a new Israeli government that is hell bent on officially annexing Palestinian land into Israel , this becomes more than just a list to be boycotted and protested , and we ’ re joined by Real News correspondent Shir Hever , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
His latest book is The Privatization of Israeli Security , published by Pluto Press .
And Shir good to see you here as a guest .
Marc Steiner : So let ’ s talk a bit about this original list .
The original list was suppressed by Israel and US , and they tried to stop it ’ s publication .
Now it ’ s been published , but much revised .
So what do we know about the struggle around the publication of this list and about why and who was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , I was a little bit involved in compiling that list among many , many other activists in Israel and Palestine and elsewhere .
There ’ s already organizations that are creating databases like this .
Most notable of them is Who Profits and which belongs to the Coalition of Women for Peace , and anyone can just go and browse their website and see more , see hundreds of companies listed there .
So the UN originally had a list of 400 companies .
The thing is that whenever they want to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Rights Committee , that they want to talk about their findings and present them and effectively publish their list , Israel and the U S send their delegates to try to sabotage this and prevent it from being published .
And even though both Israel and the United States have actually , stepped down from the Human Rights Commission of the United Nations , they still continue to wield influence and prevent that list from being , or prevented that list from being published until now .
So now we only have 112 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that so few companies stayed on the list is because the UN , was very tryinG to play it as safe as possible .
They were terrified of repression by the United States and Israel .
So what they did is they first of all , only put companies on the list where they were absolutely sure and had all the information on that company , and that they could cross reference it and prove it .
But then they talked to the companies and asked them , “ Do you have anything @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you are no longer active in the illegally occupied colonies or in the occupied West Bank of Gaza , then we ’ re going to just take you out without checking.
” So of course hundreds of companies and just used that option and said , “ Oh well , we ’ ve stopped.
” , regardless of whether they have or haven ’ t .
And so they were taken off the list and now we only have 112 .
Marc Steiner : But so now companies like Airbnb and booking.com are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in settlements across the West Bank .
And there ’ s groups in there like Alstom and Motorola because they ’ re helping build the infrastructure of the occupation .
But , and many of the companies on this list are not international companies .
They ’ re actually Israeli companies .
And so , you just described what just happened , but then there are groups like Heidelberg Cement and Caterpillar , which were left off the list and Heidelberg Cement in a recent article that I read was part and parcel @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and doing this major excavation , Caterpillar tearing down homes .
So how did they get left off the list ?
Shir Hever : Right .
Well , I think the reason that of the 112 companies that are still on the list , the majority of them are actually Israeli companies , is because the Israeli companies as a rule didn ’ t bother to answer the Human Rights Committee .
And they just didn ’ t bother to write them back and say , “ No , we ’ re no @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it ’ s going to sound ridiculous if they say they ’ re no longer active when they still have their address listed in illegal colonies .
So they stay on the list .
And that creates , I think , a very strong bias because in fact , if you go , if you travel in the West Bank and you look around you , you will see Caterpillar bulldozers everywhere , you will see in East , Occupied East Jerusalem , the tram built by Alstom , you will see a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ international companies that are fully aware that they ’ re supporting occupation .
But for these companies , it ’ s very easy to say , “ We have nothing to do with that.
” Marc Steiner : But , I ’ m sorry , go ahead .
Shir Hever : But getting to Heidelberg Cement , I actually live in Heidelberg .
I ’ ve been to their stock holder meeting once , and it ’ s a very interesting story .
Heidelberg cement is a company that keeps insisting that they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and they ’ re going to sell their illegal quarries in the West Bank and they ’ re going to stop providing cement and other materials to the Israeli colonies .
But Electronic Intifada , the website has uncovered A document in Hebrew , which I read , that shows that they have extended their license for mining natural resources in the West bank by another year , meaning that they are intended to keep on doing that .
So this is very surprising that they are not on the list , actually @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
This is a company that is pillaging Palestinian property , the natural resources of Palestine , and pays taxes to the Israeli occupier instead of to the people who actually live on that land .
Marc Steiner : So it was interesting to me , when you take this particular story , of Heidelberg Cement , I think it was a mini story , it was this fascinating article about a Palestinian village , Al Zawia , where they have this huge , open mine pit going on , Heidelberg is running @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of questions .
A , they ’ re expanding the work , not narrowing the work .
There are many other companies involved who are not on these lists doing similar work around in the occupied territories .
So , and then you have this new Israeli government coming in , as I said earlier , that is hell bent on annexation .
So , so to me , this can be complicates the story in many ways .
And [ inaudible 00:07:43 ] what the response is , because you are talking @ @ @ @ @ @ @ taking away the land , and if they become part of Israel , it changes the nature of what can really happen .
So how do you see this playing out ?
I mean I know BDS is calling for a boycott , but in some ways this might be beyond that and maybe I ’ m wrong , but talk about that .
Shir Hever : Well , officially the UN is not going as far as calling for a boycott .
They even don ’ t dare to write on the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ doing is illegal .
They ’ re even , they ’ re trembling in fear , and they ’ re not even writing this very simple fact .
So they ’ re just saying , “ This is a list for your information.
” Of course , nobody can really see any kind of use for that list except in order to organize boycott , divestment and sanctions against these particular companies .
So , of course it has something to do with the BDS movement .
The BDS movement is the movement @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that list and make use of it .
So now it ’ s up to people , for example , myself living in Heidelberg , to protest against Heidelberg Cement and what this company is doing .
And it is going to play out absolutely as an international action to make these companies accountable for corporate accountability in war crimes .
The UN has already published lists like this for Myanmar and for the DRC .
And in both cases they were not so timid about writing these are companies doing illegal things @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on a black list rather than just mentioned for the information value .
In the case of Israel , Palestine , there is a lot more pressure and to keep the UN quiet , but the activists are not going to keep quiet .
And I think the companies should be aware that there ’ s going to be a heavy economic price to pay when these companies become the pariahs , the companies that cross a red line , violate international law .
Some companies have already been severely burned , like @ @ @ @ @ @ @ billions of dollars worth of contract all around the world because of their involvement in illegal activity in Occupied East Jerusalem .
And now these companies , on that list is 112 companies are facing a similar fate .
And I think beyond that we have other companies that didn ’ t get to the list like for example , Heidelberg Cement that are also going to be held accountable .
Marc Steiner : So as we close this out Shir , one quick question here .
A sidebar interested me about this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s , well Heidelberg said about their work in certain villages in the West Bank and in Palestine .
And when I read about General Mills ’ statement which said , “ Look , we hire Israeli and Palestinian workers at the same rate , for the same pay , the same benefits.
” , the same thing Heidelberg said , and it reminded me of what goes on in many indigenous reservations and territories in the United States like Peabody Coal on the Navajo and the Hopi where they are exploiting the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ re working on here for Real News , they ’ re exploiting the land and destroying the land , but at the same time they ’ re giving Navajo and Hopi men and women work , that ’ s paying them more than they ’ ve ever been paid before .
The same thing is happening with Heidelberg and General Mills .
So how does that fit into the mix ?
I mean that doesn ’ t , I mean because that ’ s also a reality about how people have to survive @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you for asking that , because I think there is a difference .
The difference is that the companies are outright lying .
They are not just providing jobs for Palestinians because officially according to the Israeli law , Palestinian workers working in the illegal colonies , working for international or Israeli companies are supposed to receive the same conditions and the same pay as Israeli workers .
They are supposed to be protected by Israeli labor laws .
The problem is that no employer actually enforces that .
And the courts don @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it gets to the court , and it gets to the court frequently , there is an organization called [ inaudible 00:11:57 ] , Workers Hotline , which specializes in representing Palestinian workers in court .
And when Palestinians don ’ t receive the minimum wage , don ’ t receive health benefits , don ’ t receive the basic insurance that they ’ re supposed to receive , then they can go to court .
And the court usually , and then the company would argue , “ Oh , but you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ laws , not to Israeli labor law.
” And even though the court has repeatedly said this is not acceptable , and the Israeli laws should be in effect , there is no sanction , and the companies can continue to violate again and again , and nothing really happens to them .
So that ’ s a structural problem with the way that Palestinians are treated in these companies .
And the amount of money that they have lost because of that over the years is tremendous .
Starting from 2008 the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ only tax in order to discourage Palestinians from working for Israeli companies .
They take a an almost 50 % tax on their income in order , and then they give that money to the Palestinian Authority .
They give it to the government , so that the workers will not see the money and then they say , “ Well , it ’ s not a real tax because we didn ’ t take the money for ourselves.
” But the result is to try to create a segregated workforce or Jewish @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as second rate workers wherever they go .
And unfortunately that is working .
That is something that these companies are complicit in when they allow this system to work , and when they agree to pay this racist tax , a Palestinian only tax .
But I want to say one last thing about this .
Shir Hever : Because companies have often said , “ If you sanction us , if you boycott us , we will fire the Palestinian workers .
We ’ re providing work for Palestinians , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ re actually harming Palestinians .
Don ’ t boycott us.
” This is an argument that is essentially taking the Palestinian workers hostage .
It ’ s telling about the same workers , if we are human rights activists , we care about international law .
We see a company , that is violating their rights and we say , “ Oh , but we don ’ t want to boycott that company because they ’ re providing jobs for Palestinians.
” What we ’ re actually saying , “ Oh , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ know what ’ s good for you .
We know better than you do what is good for you.
” Because even though all labor unions in Palestine support the BDS movement , support the boycott , we ’ re going to ignore all that and just decide for ourselves what is your interest .
It ’ s an extremely patronizing and racist approach and of course I do not support it .
Marc Steiner : Well , Shir Hever , there ’ s so much more to talk about here and there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ story that we have to continue talking about because the annexation and more that could be taking place , and how this fits in , but we ’ ll be doing that together .
Shir Hever , thanks for your work and thanks for joining us once again .
Talk to you very soon .
And I ’ m Marc Steiner here for the Real News Network .
I want to thank you all for joining us .
Let us know what you think .
Take care .
Speaker 4 : Thanks a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ But do us one more solid favorite .
Hit the subscribe button below .
You know you want to .
Stay up on the videos .

Marc Steiner: Welcome to The Real News. I’m Marc Steiner. Good to have you with us.In February, the United Nations Human Rights Committee published a list of 112 companies that profit from the Israeli occupation on Palestinian and Syrian land. Now the colonization of occupied territory, and the exploitation of property and people in that territory, is prohibited by the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention. It’s interesting to note that that convention was prompted, these international rules were prompted, because of the Nazi theft and exploitation of Jewish land and property, in large part. The companies listed by the UN are all involved in activity benefiting from this illegal occupation and colonization of Palestinian land. That makes them complicit in a war crime. What will all that mean? We’re going to talk about.The original list of companies was researched and completed three years ago, but it wasn’t published because of pressure from the United States and Israel to prevent the UN from releasing the original findings and data. Now the list has finally been published, but many companies known for their role in assisting the occupation, and destroying and exploiting Palestinian land, are missing from this list. Rupert Colville is a spokesperson for the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights and tried to understate the importance of this list. Let’s have a listen.Rupert Colville: We’re fully aware of the sensitivity of this report for people on all sides of the debate and for of course, the companies themselves, and for this reason, we’ve taken particular care not to go beyond the remit set down for us by the Human Rights Council. It’s important to note that it is not, as some claim, a blacklist, nor does it qualify any company’s activities as illegal.Marc Steiner: As we verge on the abyss of a new Israeli government that is hell bent on officially annexing Palestinian land into Israel, this becomes more than just a list to be boycotted and protested, and we’re joined by Real News correspondent Shir Hever, who is based in Heidelberg, Germany. His latest book is The Privatization of Israeli Security, published by Pluto Press. And Shir good to see you here as a guest.
Shir Hever: Thank you Marc.
Marc Steiner: So let’s talk a bit about this original list. The original list was suppressed by Israel and US, and they tried to stop it’s publication. Now it’s been published, but much revised. So what do we know about the struggle around the publication of this list and about why and who was left off?
Shir Hever: Well, I was a little bit involved in compiling that list among many, many other activists in Israel and Palestine and elsewhere. There’s already organizations that are creating databases like this. Most notable of them is Who Profits and which belongs to the Coalition of Women for Peace, and anyone can just go and browse their website and see more, see hundreds of companies listed there. So the UN originally had a list of 400 companies. The thing is that whenever they want to put on the agenda of the Human Rights Committee, that they want to talk about their findings and present them and effectively publish their list, Israel and the U S send their delegates to try to sabotage this and prevent it from being published. And even though both Israel and the United States have actually, stepped down from the Human Rights Commission of the United Nations, they still continue to wield influence and prevent that list from being, or prevented that list from being published until now.
So now we only have 112 companies on the list. The reason that so few companies stayed on the list is because the UN, was very tryinG to play it as safe as possible. They were terrified of repression by the United States and Israel. So what they did is they first of all, only put companies on the list where they were absolutely sure and had all the information on that company, and that they could cross reference it and prove it. But then they talked to the companies and asked them, “Do you have anything to say? If you say that you are no longer active in the illegally occupied colonies or in the occupied West Bank of Gaza, then we’re going to just take you out without checking.”So of course hundreds of companies and just used that option and said, “Oh well, we’ve stopped.”, regardless of whether they have or haven’t. And so they were taken off the list and now we only have 112.
Marc Steiner: But so now companies like Airbnb and booking.com are there because they’re promoting accommodation in settlements across the West Bank. And there’s groups in there like Alstom and Motorola because they’re helping build the infrastructure of the occupation. But, and many of the companies on this list are not international companies. They’re actually Israeli companies. And so, you just described what just happened, but then there are groups like Heidelberg Cement and Caterpillar, which were left off the list and Heidelberg Cement in a recent article that I read was part and parcel of taking apart one village entirely, and doing this major excavation, Caterpillar tearing down homes. So how did they get left off the list?
Shir Hever: Right. Well, I think the reason that of the 112 companies that are still on the list, the majority of them are actually Israeli companies, is because the Israeli companies as a rule didn’t bother to answer the Human Rights Committee. And they just didn’t bother to write them back and say, “No, we’re no longer active.” Maybe because they knew it’s going to sound ridiculous if they say they’re no longer active when they still have their address listed in illegal colonies. So they stay on the list. And that creates, I think, a very strong bias because in fact, if you go, if you travel in the West Bank and you look around you, you will see Caterpillar bulldozers everywhere, you will see in East, Occupied East Jerusalem, the tram built by Alstom, you will see a lot of imported machinery and materials from international companies that are fully aware that they’re supporting occupation.
But for these companies, it’s very easy to say, “We have nothing to do with that.”
Marc Steiner: But, I’m sorry, go ahead.
Shir Hever: But getting to Heidelberg Cement, I actually live in Heidelberg. I’ve been to their stock holder meeting once, and it’s a very interesting story. Heidelberg cement is a company that keeps insisting that they’re on their way out, and they’re going to sell their illegal quarries in the West Bank and they’re going to stop providing cement and other materials to the Israeli colonies. But Electronic Intifada, the website has uncovered A document in Hebrew, which I read, that shows that they have extended their license for mining natural resources in the West bank by another year, meaning that they are intended to keep on doing that. So this is very surprising that they are not on the list, actually. We have absolute proof of that. This is a company that is pillaging Palestinian property, the natural resources of Palestine, and pays taxes to the Israeli occupier instead of to the people who actually live on that land.
Marc Steiner: So it was interesting to me, when you take this particular story, of Heidelberg Cement, I think it was a mini story, it was this fascinating article about a Palestinian village, Al Zawia, where they have this huge, open mine pit going on, Heidelberg is running. And so it begs a lot of questions. A, they’re expanding the work, not narrowing the work. There are many other companies involved who are not on these lists doing similar work around in the occupied territories. So, and then you have this new Israeli government coming in, as I said earlier, that is hell bent on annexation. So, so to me, this can be complicates the story in many ways. And [inaudible 00:07:43] what the response is, because you are talking about a companies that are just literally taking away the land, and if they become part of Israel, it changes the nature of what can really happen. So how do you see this playing out? I mean I know BDS is calling for a boycott, but in some ways this might be beyond that and maybe I’m wrong, but talk about that.
Shir Hever: Well, officially the UN is not going as far as calling for a boycott. They even don’t dare to write on the list that what the company’s doing is illegal. They’re even, they’re trembling in fear, and they’re not even writing this very simple fact. So they’re just saying, “This is a list for your information.” Of course, nobody can really see any kind of use for that list except in order to organize boycott, divestment and sanctions against these particular companies. So, of course it has something to do with the BDS movement. The BDS movement is the movement that has now the responsibility to take that list and make use of it. So now it’s up to people, for example, myself living in Heidelberg, to protest against Heidelberg Cement and what this company is doing.
And it is going to play out absolutely as an international action to make these companies accountable for corporate accountability in war crimes. The UN has already published lists like this for Myanmar and for the DRC. And in both cases they were not so timid about writing these are companies doing illegal things and these companies maybe should be put on a black list rather than just mentioned for the information value.
In the case of Israel, Palestine, there is a lot more pressure and to keep the UN quiet, but the activists are not going to keep quiet. And I think the companies should be aware that there’s going to be a heavy economic price to pay when these companies become the pariahs, the companies that cross a red line, violate international law. Some companies have already been severely burned, like Veolia the French infrastructure company that lost billions of dollars worth of contract all around the world because of their involvement in illegal activity in Occupied East Jerusalem. And now these companies, on that list is 112 companies are facing a similar fate. And I think beyond that we have other companies that didn’t get to the list like for example, Heidelberg Cement that are also going to be held accountable.
Marc Steiner: So as we close this out Shir, one quick question here. A sidebar interested me about this. When I read about Heidelberg’s, well Heidelberg said about their work in certain villages in the West Bank and in Palestine. And when I read about General Mills’ statement which said, “Look, we hire Israeli and Palestinian workers at the same rate, for the same pay, the same benefits.”, the same thing Heidelberg said, and it reminded me of what goes on in many indigenous reservations and territories in the United States like Peabody Coal on the Navajo and the Hopi where they are exploiting the land, and a story we’re working on here for Real News, they’re exploiting the land and destroying the land, but at the same time they’re giving Navajo and Hopi men and women work, that’s paying them more than they’ve ever been paid before. The same thing is happening with Heidelberg and General Mills. So how does that fit into the mix? I mean that doesn’t, I mean because that’s also a reality about how people have to survive.
Shir Hever: Right. Thank you for asking that, because I think there is a difference. The difference is that the companies are outright lying. They are not just providing jobs for Palestinians because officially according to the Israeli law, Palestinian workers working in the illegal colonies, working for international or Israeli companies are supposed to receive the same conditions and the same pay as Israeli workers. They are supposed to be protected by Israeli labor laws. The problem is that no employer actually enforces that. And the courts don’t enforce that either, when it gets to the court, and it gets to the court frequently, there is an organization called [inaudible 00:11:57], Workers Hotline, which specializes in representing Palestinian workers in court. And when Palestinians don’t receive the minimum wage, don’t receive health benefits, don’t receive the basic insurance that they’re supposed to receive, then they can go to court. And the court usually, and then the company would argue, “Oh, but you’re actually subject to Jordanian labor laws, not to Israeli labor law.”
And even though the court has repeatedly said this is not acceptable, and the Israeli laws should be in effect, there is no sanction, and the companies can continue to violate again and again, and nothing really happens to them. So that’s a structural problem with the way that Palestinians are treated in these companies. And the amount of money that they have lost because of that over the years is tremendous. Starting from 2008 the Israeli government even imposes a special Palestinian only tax in order to discourage Palestinians from working for Israeli companies. They take a an almost 50% tax on their income in order, and then they give that money to the Palestinian Authority. They give it to the government, so that the workers will not see the money and then they say, “Well, it’s not a real tax because we didn’t take the money for ourselves.” But the result is to try to create a segregated workforce or Jewish only workforce, and to keep Palestinians as second rate workers wherever they go. And unfortunately that is working. That is something that these companies are complicit in when they allow this system to work, and when they agree to pay this racist tax, a Palestinian only tax. But I want to say one last thing about this.
Marc Steiner: Okay.
Shir Hever: Because companies have often said, “If you sanction us, if you boycott us, we will fire the Palestinian workers. We’re providing work for Palestinians, and they need that work. So you’re actually harming Palestinians. Don’t boycott us.” This is an argument that is essentially taking the Palestinian workers hostage. It’s telling about the same workers, if we are human rights activists, we care about international law. We see a company, that is violating their rights and we say, “Oh, but we don’t want to boycott that company because they’re providing jobs for Palestinians.” What we’re actually saying, “Oh, you Palestinians, you don’t know what’s good for you. We know better than you do what is good for you.”
Because even though all labor unions in Palestine support the BDS movement, support the boycott, we’re going to ignore all that and just decide for ourselves what is your interest. It’s an extremely patronizing and racist approach and of course I do not support it.
Marc Steiner: Well, Shir Hever, there’s so much more to talk about here and there’s a larger piece of their story that we have to continue talking about because the annexation and more that could be taking place, and how this fits in, but we’ll be doing that together. Shir Hever, thanks for your work and thanks for joining us once again. Talk to you very soon.
Shir Hever: Thank you Marc.
Marc Steiner: Thank you.
And I’m Marc Steiner here for the Real News Network. I want to thank you all for joining us. Let us know what you think. Take care.
Speaker 4: Thanks a lot for watching. Appreciate it. But do us one more solid favorite. Hit the subscribe button below. You know you want to. Stay up on the videos.


therealnews--2020-03-12--Air Quality over China Improves After Coronavirus Quarantine

Kim Brown : Welcome to the Real News .
I ’ m Kim Brown .
As Corona virus enters into the pandemic phase , and governments around the world scramble to contain it , there has been an unexpected , though probably predictable , positive effect .
Over certain areas of China where the virus has struck the hardest , NASA satellites have detected significant decreases in levels of nitrogen dioxide in the air .
Obvious question , what ’ s nitrogen oxide ?
Let ’ s have a listen .
Speaker : Nitrogen dioxide is a gas emitted during @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s released from the tailpipes of cars and the smoke sacks of power plants .
Together these emissions affect the quality of air we breathe .
Since 2004 an instrument aboard NASA ’ s Aura satellite has measured levels of nitrogen dioxide in Earth ’ s atmosphere .
In 2014 we released satellite images that show how environmental regulations have led to reductions in nitrogen dioxide over major US cities .
Now we created global maps that allow us to see how levels have changed around the world over the last decade @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in levels over most of the country due to a rise in coal use for power generation , but decreases for some cities like Beijing , where a growing middle class is now demanding cleaner air .
In the US the only increases are in regions with intensive oil and natural gas extraction , including fracking .
In North Dakota and Texas we see increases of 30 % in some areas .
By monitoring levels of nitrogen dioxide from space we can see and quantify the effects of things like energy usage , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , on air quality across the globe .
Kim Brown : And joining us today is Dr. Bryan Duncan .
He is an atmospheric scientist in the Atmospheric Chemistry and Dynamics Laboratory at NASA Goddard Space flight center right down the street .
He is project scientist for the NASA RS satellite mission , which observes atmospheric constituents in the troposphere , stratosphere , mesosphere .
He has expertise in air quality and tropospheric trace gas composition .
He ’ s a member of NASA ’ s Health and Air Quality Applied Sciences @ @ @ @ @ @ @ NASA satellite data by health and air quality communities .
He joins us today from Davidsonville , Maryland .
Dr. Duncan , thank you so much for being here .
Kim Brown : So I follow NASA on Twitter because , interesting .
But when I saw this post on the earth observatory page , which said airborne nitrogen oxide levels plummet over China due to the Corona virus quarantine and subsequent economic slowdown , I thought that was kind of sounds like a big deal .
So tell us , is this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ no deal ?
Dr. Bryan Duncan : It is a big deal , but first , let me start off and say that NASA , most people don ’ t know this , but NASA has a fleet of satellites that observe the earth .
So they ’ re orbiting the earth right now , anywhere from 20 or more .
They observe all types of aspects of the earth , whether it ’ s the ocean , the biosphere , vegetation , ice sheets , and so on .
And one of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ measure various types of air pollutants .
And one of those air pollutants is nitrogen dioxide .
Okay , so you heard in the video that nitrogen dioxide is produced whenever we burn anything like fossil fuels .
So it ’ s coming out of our tailpipes and our smokestacks .
In China we have a longtime record now , starting in about 2005 to the present .
And what we saw in the data in China is that the pollutant levels increased quite a bit from 2005 to around 2011 , 2012 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ until today .
And that ’ s because the Chinese government began requiring emission control devices on the sources of nitrogen dioxide pollution .
And that is the cars .
So they were requiring more efficient cars , emission control devices on power plants .
So the levels , so we ’ ve been able to use these satellites to look at how air pollution has been changing over time in China , and we ’ ve never seen such a very sharp decrease as this , over this short period of time @ @ @ @ @ @ @ few weeks .
Kim Brown : Exactly .
I don ’ t mean to cut you off , but I want our viewers and people who are listening to the audio broadcast to take a look and listen at the satellite photos because it ’ s pretty striking .
The photos taken between January 1st to January 20th over China , I mean , the block was clearly hot .
We ’ re seeing a lot of yellows , reds , oranges .
But the same period , or rather a different period @ @ @ @ @ @ @ over the same area , we see whites and blues .
And you said you and your team , you guys are pretty surprised to see this .
Dr. Bryan Duncan : Well , we were surprised to see , we expected to see a decrease , but not this much .
It just indicates how the Chinese government , how restrictive they were in their efforts to contain the virus by shutting down factories , requiring people to stay at home .
And that shows very clearly in the data .
One @ @ @ @ @ @ @ data I would like to point out is that historically over the last 15 years that we have a data record , nitrogen dioxide pollution emissions tend to decrease just before the lunar new year holiday .
And that ’ s at the end of January this year .
And that happened this year .
But the thing is is that the pollutant levels didn ’ t increase again after the holiday was over , as they did in typical years .
In fact , they went down for about three more weeks @ @ @ @ @ @ @ out , and it was very clear to us that something was going on on the ground and it was big , very significant .
One thing I would like to point out is that the air pollution emissions just in the last week or so seemed to be increasing again for nitrogen dioxide and that could indicate that some limited economic activity is resuming .
And that ’ s at least consistent with news reports that I ’ ve heard that yes , some factories are beginning to reopen in a limited @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I ’ m glad you brought that up Dr. Duncan , because that was my bummer question .
You know , once fears have calmed down over the Corona virus spread , and the factories reopen and people start driving to work and shopping , how long do you think it will take for the nitrogen dioxide levels to return to the pre quarantine levels ?
Dr. Bryan Duncan : I think that absolutely depends on the Chinese government and when they began to lift restrictions .
And I can ’ t predict @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Brown : So , as you mentioned , you have not seen this precipitous drop over a relatively short amount of time over the same area .
But I ’ m curious on the spectrum of greenhouse gases , why is NO2 bad for humans and other life on earth to be breathing ?
Dr. Bryan Duncan : Okay .
Nitrogen dioxide is not a greenhouse gas .
It ’ s an air pollutant .
It ’ s very unhealthy to breathe , and that ’ s why , for instance , the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it for decades .
The second thing is that nitrogen dioxide , most people don ’ t know this , is a necessary ingredient for the formation of another very important pollutant called ozone .
And ozone at the surface when it forms in photochemical smog , think about just smog in a city , ozone is formed , it ’ s very unhealthy to breathe this , it actually can chemically react with our lungs and burn our lung tissue .
And this damage is permanent .
So somebody who ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ my lungs will show significant damage from ozone , relative to a younger person for instance .
I ’ ve been exposed to ozone a lot longer than say somebody that may be 20 .
Kim Brown : So Dr. Duncan , the sad reality is that capitalistic industrialization at this point in our human existence is incompatible with clean air and water .
But if we could , let ’ s delve into the realm of fantasy , because let ’ s say if Los Angeles were to experience an industrial slowdown @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , how would that be felt ?
How would people notice that ?
What would that look like ?
Dr. Bryan Duncan : Okay , well , I ’ ll turn this sort of in a different direction .
I ’ ll change your question a little bit .
I think the best way to look at this is environmental regulations started to go in to effect primarily in the ’ 70s , there were other environmental regulations before that , to try to combat air pollution .
And since the 1970s our @ @ @ @ @ @ @ US and is improved also in Europe and Japan because of similar efforts to improve environmental pollution .
So compared to what our air quality was 30 years ago , or 40 years ago , things are so much better .
And on the order , for instance , just in the last , since about 2007 , eight , nine in that period , nitrogen dioxide levels in the US have dropped anywhere from 20 to 60 % in most American cities .
So we have seen such precipitous drops , but @ @ @ @ @ @ @ devices , more fuel efficient cars , and other efforts to reduce air pollution .
What we ’ re seeing in China is a totally different story .
However , they have made significant efforts to improve their air quality through emission control devices in the last decade and it ’ s showing .
Kim Brown : Do we have to expect pandemics or other catastrophic type of events to deter human activity in the sense of factories , power plants , people driving their cars , because again , the notice was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of time , it just looked like I was looking at a snapshot of the answer to perhaps some of our climate change problems .
Dr. Bryan Duncan : Oh , okay .
Well , that ’ s getting a little bit out of my area of expertise because I would say that there could be , say other efficiency controls added to power plants , to cars , to improve it , to make it less polluting .
And I think that ’ s definitely something , a direction we need to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ even though we ’ ve made a lot of improvements in the US , and a lot of improvements in China in the last decade , the air is still not clean .
And we do need to consider additional efforts going forward .
Kim Brown : All right , well we ’ re going to leave the conversation there .
Dr. Bryan Duncan , we certainly appreciate your time .
He ’ s a research scientist in the Atmospheric Chemistry and Dynamics Laboratory of the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center .
He @ @ @ @ @ @ @ satellite mission and a member of the NASA Health and Air Quality Applied Sciences team .
Dr. Duncan , we appreciate your time today .
Thank you so much .
Kim Brown : And thank you for watching the Real News Network .

NASA satellite observes ‘significant decreases’ in nitrogen dioxide as factories shutter and workers stay home.
Story Transcript
Kim Brown: Welcome to the Real News. I’m Kim Brown. As Corona virus enters into the pandemic phase, and governments around the world scramble to contain it, there has been an unexpected, though probably predictable, positive effect. Over certain areas of China where the virus has struck the hardest, NASA satellites have detected significant decreases in levels of nitrogen dioxide in the air. Obvious question, what’s nitrogen oxide? Let’s have a listen.
Speaker: Nitrogen dioxide is a gas emitted during the combustion of fossil fuels. It’s released from the tailpipes of cars and the smoke sacks of power plants. Together these emissions affect the quality of air we breathe. Since 2004 an instrument aboard NASA’s Aura satellite has measured levels of nitrogen dioxide in Earth’s atmosphere. In 2014 we released satellite images that show how environmental regulations have led to reductions in nitrogen dioxide over major US cities. Now we created global maps that allow us to see how levels have changed around the world over the last decade.
In China we see an increase in levels over most of the country due to a rise in coal use for power generation, but decreases for some cities like Beijing, where a growing middle class is now demanding cleaner air. In the US the only increases are in regions with intensive oil and natural gas extraction, including fracking. In North Dakota and Texas we see increases of 30% in some areas.
By monitoring levels of nitrogen dioxide from space we can see and quantify the effects of things like energy usage, environmental policy, and even civil unrest, on air quality across the globe.
Kim Brown: And joining us today is Dr. Bryan Duncan. He is an atmospheric scientist in the Atmospheric Chemistry and Dynamics Laboratory at NASA Goddard Space flight center right down the street. He is project scientist for the NASA RS satellite mission, which observes atmospheric constituents in the troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere. He has expertise in air quality and tropospheric trace gas composition. He’s a member of NASA’s Health and Air Quality Applied Sciences team, which facilitates the use of NASA satellite data by health and air quality communities. He joins us today from Davidsonville, Maryland. Dr. Duncan, thank you so much for being here.
Dr. Bryan Duncan: Oh my pleasure.
Kim Brown: So I follow NASA on Twitter because, interesting. But when I saw this post on the earth observatory page, which said airborne nitrogen oxide levels plummet over China due to the Corona virus quarantine and subsequent economic slowdown, I thought that was kind of sounds like a big deal. So tell us, is this a big deal, little deal or no deal?
Dr. Bryan Duncan: It is a big deal, but first, let me start off and say that NASA, most people don’t know this, but NASA has a fleet of satellites that observe the earth. So they’re orbiting the earth right now, anywhere from 20 or more. They observe all types of aspects of the earth, whether it’s the ocean, the biosphere, vegetation, ice sheets, and so on. And one of the, or several of the satellites measure various types of air pollutants. And one of those air pollutants is nitrogen dioxide. Okay, so you heard in the video that nitrogen dioxide is produced whenever we burn anything like fossil fuels. So it’s coming out of our tailpipes and our smokestacks.
In China we have a longtime record now, starting in about 2005 to the present. And what we saw in the data in China is that the pollutant levels increased quite a bit from 2005 to around 2011, 2012, and they began to decrease again until today. And that’s because the Chinese government began requiring emission control devices on the sources of nitrogen dioxide pollution. And that is the cars. So they were requiring more efficient cars, emission control devices on power plants.
So the levels, so we’ve been able to use these satellites to look at how air pollution has been changing over time in China, and we’ve never seen such a very sharp decrease as this, over this short period of time, on the matter of just a few weeks.
Kim Brown: Exactly. I don’t mean to cut you off, but I want our viewers and people who are listening to the audio broadcast to take a look and listen at the satellite photos because it’s pretty striking. The photos taken between January 1st to January 20th over China, I mean, the block was clearly hot. We’re seeing a lot of yellows, reds, oranges. But the same period, or rather a different period, February 10th through the 25th, over the same area, we see whites and blues. And you said you and your team, you guys are pretty surprised to see this.
Dr. Bryan Duncan: Well, we were surprised to see, we expected to see a decrease, but not this much. It just indicates how the Chinese government, how restrictive they were in their efforts to contain the virus by shutting down factories, requiring people to stay at home. And that shows very clearly in the data. One thing that’s interesting about the data I would like to point out is that historically over the last 15 years that we have a data record, nitrogen dioxide pollution emissions tend to decrease just before the lunar new year holiday. And that’s at the end of January this year. And that happened this year. But the thing is is that the pollutant levels didn’t increase again after the holiday was over, as they did in typical years. In fact, they went down for about three more weeks, which is very unusual and stood out, and it was very clear to us that something was going on on the ground and it was big, very significant.
One thing I would like to point out is that the air pollution emissions just in the last week or so seemed to be increasing again for nitrogen dioxide and that could indicate that some limited economic activity is resuming. And that’s at least consistent with news reports that I’ve heard that yes, some factories are beginning to reopen in a limited fashion.
Kim Brown: Well, I’m glad you brought that up Dr. Duncan, because that was my bummer question. You know, once fears have calmed down over the Corona virus spread, and the factories reopen and people start driving to work and shopping, how long do you think it will take for the nitrogen dioxide levels to return to the pre quarantine levels?
Dr. Bryan Duncan: I think that absolutely depends on the Chinese government and when they began to lift restrictions. And I can’t predict how that will play out.
Kim Brown: So, as you mentioned, you have not seen this precipitous drop over a relatively short amount of time over the same area. But I’m curious on the spectrum of greenhouse gases, why is NO2 bad for humans and other life on earth to be breathing?
Dr. Bryan Duncan: Okay. Nitrogen dioxide is not a greenhouse gas. It’s an air pollutant. It’s very unhealthy to breathe, and that’s why, for instance, the US environmental protection agency has been regulating it for decades. The second thing is that nitrogen dioxide, most people don’t know this, is a necessary ingredient for the formation of another very important pollutant called ozone. And ozone at the surface when it forms in photochemical smog, think about just smog in a city, ozone is formed, it’s very unhealthy to breathe this, it actually can chemically react with our lungs and burn our lung tissue. And this damage is permanent.
So somebody who’s older like me will have, well my lungs will show significant damage from ozone, relative to a younger person for instance. I’ve been exposed to ozone a lot longer than say somebody that may be 20.
Kim Brown: So Dr. Duncan, the sad reality is that capitalistic industrialization at this point in our human existence is incompatible with clean air and water. But if we could, let’s delve into the realm of fantasy, because let’s say if Los Angeles were to experience an industrial slowdown like we’ve seen over China, how would that be felt? How would people notice that? What would that look like?
Dr. Bryan Duncan: Okay, well, I’ll turn this sort of in a different direction. I’ll change your question a little bit. I think the best way to look at this is environmental regulations started to go in to effect primarily in the ’70s, there were other environmental regulations before that, to try to combat air pollution. And since the 1970s our air quality has improved dramatically in the US and is improved also in Europe and Japan because of similar efforts to improve environmental pollution.
So compared to what our air quality was 30 years ago, or 40 years ago, things are so much better. And on the order, for instance, just in the last, since about 2007, eight, nine in that period, nitrogen dioxide levels in the US have dropped anywhere from 20 to 60% in most American cities. So we have seen such precipitous drops, but that’s because of emission control devices, more fuel efficient cars, and other efforts to reduce air pollution. What we’re seeing in China is a totally different story.
However, they have made significant efforts to improve their air quality through emission control devices in the last decade and it’s showing.
Kim Brown: Do we have to expect pandemics or other catastrophic type of events to deter human activity in the sense of factories, power plants, people driving their cars, because again, the notice was so stark over a relatively short period of time, it just looked like I was looking at a snapshot of the answer to perhaps some of our climate change problems.
Dr. Bryan Duncan: Oh, okay. Well, that’s getting a little bit out of my area of expertise because I would say that there could be, say other efficiency controls added to power plants, to cars, to improve it, to make it less polluting. And I think that’s definitely something, a direction we need to go in, because our air, even though we’ve made a lot of improvements in the US, and a lot of improvements in China in the last decade, the air is still not clean. And we do need to consider additional efforts going forward.
Kim Brown: All right, well we’re going to leave the conversation there. Dr. Bryan Duncan, we certainly appreciate your time. He’s a research scientist in the Atmospheric Chemistry and Dynamics Laboratory of the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center. He is project scientist of the NASA Aura satellite mission and a member of the NASA Health and Air Quality Applied Sciences team. Dr. Duncan, we appreciate your time today. Thank you so much.
Dr. Bryan Duncan: My pleasure.
Kim Brown: And thank you for watching the Real News Network.
Studio: Bababtunde Ogunfolaju, Will Arenas
Production: Genevieve Montinar, Will Arenas
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therealnews--2020-03-12--Dying of Thirst in Gaza

Dying of Thirst in Gaza

Marc Steiner : Welcome to The Real News .
I ’ m Marc Steiner , good to have you all with us .
When you hear the word Gaza , what does that conjure up for you ?
War ?
Bombs being dropped ?
Rockets firing ?
Israeli blockades and occupation ?
Whatever it conjures up , it ’ s not positive and , too often , forgotten .
In 2012 , the United Nations issued a report entitled Gaza 2020 : A livable place ?
, with a question mark .
If the report took off the question mark @ @ @ @ @ @ @ own question in the title .
No , it ’ s not .
From the Israeli blockades allowing just enough so complete starvation doesn ’ t take place , to both Israel and Egypt controlling the borders , the answer is it is not livable .
What is even more alarming , if you look back in 2000 , the World Trade Organization put out a report that said that 90 % of the water in Gaza is unfit for drinking .
That was true then , it ’ s worse now , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ turned a blind eye to a continued siege which only made living conditions in the small , overcrowded strip worse and worse and worse , making it impossible for people to barely survive .
So what if there ’ s a severe shortage in food medicine , electricity and any sense of freedom to come and go as you please everyone who lives in Gaza has their life threatened because they face one of the most severe water shortages of any place on the earth .
Everyone ’ s life in Gaza is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ outbreaks of kidney diseases , tooth diseases , among many other things that are easily preventable and because of this Middle East Eye published a video reminding the world of the cause and consequences of this water situation .
Water environment expert Ahmed Helles spoke to Middle East Eye.Ahmed Helles : [ foreign language 00:01:41 ] .
Translator : 96 % of Gaza ’ s residents rely on groundwater for their daily needs , including drinking water .
More than 35 to 40 % of Gaza Strip sewage is not connected to a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and of the Palestinian political division .
So Gaza ’ s groundwater is exposed to pollution .
Only 2 % of Gaza ’ s groundwater is drinkable and that does not cover people with needs .
Marc Steiner : And we ’ re joined now by Clemens Messerschmid who is a hydrologist and spent many years studying the water situation in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip .
He ’ s written hundreds of articles and book chapters on the politics of water and Palestine , is now on the Faculty of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Freiburg and welcome , Clemens , good to have you with us .
Marc Steiner : So those United Nations and the WTO reports I alluded to earlier , I mean they clearly talk about the water being a crisis , but it ’ s not just that , water shortage , which I want you to explain .
This has to do with water quality .
I mean it ’ s why things have gotten worse instead of better .
So talk a bit about what that means and why .
Clemens @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is under very different conditions than , for example , the other part of the Palestinian Occupied Territories , which is the West Bank .
The West Bank is extremely water rich .
Gaza is not .
Gaza is not naturally water scarce , but I would say limited amount of water .
Now you have in Gaza a very high population .
You have two million people in an area half the size of Baltimore , of your city .
So it ’ s densely crowded , however , Gaza under the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ water per capita than the West Bank simply because Israel did not completely block any groundwater access .
The problem in Gaza for the past decades was mainly water quality .
You have too much salt in the water and then increasingly also pollution , part of which comes from wastewater , part of which comes from fertilizers in the agriculture , so that would be nitrates , which are directly very , very bad for the health and major concern for public health .
And then additional pollution from solid waste and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ all that .
So water quality is for the past decades the main concern of Gazans .
Water quantity now also becomes a very big concern , but this is due to on top of the top of the top of the blockade and everything in the past years , the power cuts ; there is no more electricity in Gaza to just run the pumps .
So then you get on top of very bad water quality also enormous supply gaps as water quantity problems .
Marc Steiner : So , Clemens @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you talk about this , I think it ’ s important to talk about is that , as we talked about before we went on the air together , Gaza was once almost a paradise .
Gaza had plenty of water .
You talked about the aquifer being shallow .
We can talk a bit about that but the situation is completely different .
People have to buy water .
Most people have no access to water every day or clean water .
People are getting ill and sick , some people dying @ @ @ @ @ @ @ situation not just of a place that once knew it had water and could grow crops and lived a certain life that has been just destroyed and people are suffering daily , which is why so many people are fleeing Gaza by whatever way they can , so let ’ s get to the heart of that matter .
Clemens Messerschmid : You are right .
Gaza used to be considered a lush place , an oasis .
Alexander the Great made a stop on the famous fresh , sweet springs of Gaza @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sector even for export to Europe .
Imagine this is because ground water is shallow , so you can easily drill a shallow well and get the water up and then irrigate your crops .
Now everything has turned suddenly and very harshly with the so-called Nakba , which the Israeli call their independence or war for independence- Clemens Messerschmid : In 1948 , and the Palestinians call it the catastrophe , the Nakba , when Gaza was first of all shrunk to a small portion of what used to be the Gaza @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was crowded with refugees .
So suddenly many of the existing wells were not any more accessible because they were outside this confined Gaza Strip that we see today on the map and in addition you had a quadrupling of the population .
You had a catastrophic situation immediately , right then .
Since then during the 1950s , ’ 60s , under then-Egyptian rule , Gaza made great effort and made great progress in drilling more wells , getting back somehow on its feet .
You still had the vibrant agriculture and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ now over 50 years of Israeli occupation and now for a bit more than 10 years , the Israeli are out of the Gaza Strip , have redeployed outside and now Gaza is left on its own , but is hermetically sealed .
I guess that everybody knows that there is a blockade .
Gaza is now a ghetto , a slum , it ’ s a slum it ’ s a ghetto that is sealed off and that is quite unique on earth .
I mean you have so many slums , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that people move in and move out , not Gaza .
So it ’ s a slum that is left on its own .
It ’ s a slum that has no supply from outside .
This makes everything completely untenable and there is not even a hope to address even the most basic problems if you don ’ t address that issue , a sealed-off slum .
Now Gaza water quality is getting worse and worse .
It ’ s a crowded area .
It ’ s not a countryside , it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ densely populated , is inhabited , so you have now a lot of pollution .
You have increasingly salt getting into the ground water .
By the way , this is not really known , most of the salt does not come from the Mediterranean Sea .
There is some sea water intrusion from the Mediterranean Sea into Gaza making it extremely salty , but you have a lot of saltwater flowing as brackish groundwater under the border with Israel from the Negev into Gaza and that is the main source of salt @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this some new phenomenon or is it always this way ?
Clemens Messerschmid : This is a natural phenomenon , but it is increased as the pressure regime changes .
So in Gaza the water level drops , then the flow from outside increases .
We have a stronger gradient and then more water flows into Gaza and that is brackish water .
So as things turned bad with the water levels , then this is increased , turning even worse with respect to salt inflows from outside .
So basically what Gaza @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
Not very welcome .
Marc Steiner : All right , so the question is here , I mean , now talking directly as a hydrologist who ’ s worked in these issues , let ’ s talk a bit about what can be done .
I mean , how does this change ?
It seems to me that that ’ s one of the things that ’ s missing is conversations .
You know , you take Trump and his absurd plan aside for Israel and the Palestinians and go back to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
What brings the vibrancy back ?
I mean right now you have a situation in Gaza where people have to buy water and the reality is that most of the unemployment is so severe , in some places 70 , 80 , 90 % , people can ’ t afford even to buy the water they need .
So what resolves this ?
Clemens Messerschmid : Okay , we have to talk , I ’ m afraid , about three different issues .
One thing is what can be , what should @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what can be done .
The second thing would be what would be a technical , longterm solution for Gaza in the water sector , technically speaking , okay ?
The third would be what is the hydro political landscape ?
How does the Trump deal of the century fall into place ?
What are the strategic interests of Israel ?
These are three different issues .
Palestinians have drilled a lot of wells in Gaza , actually in Gaza we have too many Wells , not too little , we have too @ @ @ @ @ @ @ more water out the aquifer than comes in naturally from rain inside the strip .
This is not sustainable .
It ’ s getting worse by the day .
Gaza needs additional supplies .
There is one proposal now that is unfortunately also supported by the Europeans and the Union for the Mediterranean , which is a French-led international initiative and so on , to bank on a technical fix which is called large seawater desalination .
I ’ m very much against that for technical and for political reasons .
But let @ @ @ @ @ @ @ You could just drill more and let the water levels drop more and more and you will get into more and more trouble .
Otherwise , there are no water sources for Gaza .
There is no source , there is nothing you can do to get more water .
You can always improve a little bit on the edge , of course you can treat your wastewater a bit better , but this will not solve the original problem that there is now also an absolute shortage of water .
Under these @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and worse .
It was already said in the beginning , and this I want to confirm , 96 % of the drinking water wells in Gaza have a chloride content or salt content above what is considered a drinking water standard by the World Health Organization , okay , so it ’ s not drinkable water .
Now you have a lot of small-scale desalination plants which do not use seawater , but they actually drill and tap into the slightly brackish , slightly salty groundwater and desalinate that water .
To @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I ’ m not against that because it ’ s just a matter of energy and that of cost .
If you have very little salt in the water or slightly brackish water , it costs not very much to desalinate .
However , if you have highly saline sea water , it ’ s hugely expensive to desalinate or you can also call , if we talk about climate change , you spend a huge amount of energy just to produce fresh water .
So these are two completely different things , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ political problems with these small-scale , brackish water desalination plants where people are supplied because they have problems with the transport and with regulation , So the water often arrives at the household contaminated .
And anyway , this is not a solution .
Yes , it ’ s a short-term remedy and it is a emergency measure , but it ’ s not a longterm solution to carry around water in trucks .
Water should flow through a pipe and end up at your faucet .
That ’ s how it should @ @ @ @ @ @ @ house , in everybody ’ s house , okay ?
Full stop .
And nothing less should for me be acceptable , okay , so it ’ s just short term , but we have all these problems .
You could approach it but still then you still bank on groundwater .
It ’ s not really something that will help forever , okay ?
Now what should be done longterm ?
Well , there we have to look at Gaza in a very different way .
We have to understand , I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ citizen .
I ’ m living for 20 years in Palestine , but I originally come from Munich , Bavaria , one of the richest cities in Germany near the Alps , lots of rain , splendid , we have a little river and so on .
Gaza , a few years back happened to have the same population density as Munich , the same area and the same population as Munich .
Now , if I imagine Munich was sealed off for just two days from outside , no more road , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , okay , and you would also cut off this little river , how would we survive ?
Munich gets its water from the Alps , some 90 kilometers away , I don ’ t know , 50 miles ?
you make the math .
We get the water from the Alps , as a matter of fact , and now this is something really I would like to highlight .
If you cut anything out of the video , don ’ t cut that .
As a matter of fact , there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is supplied from within its own perimeter with water .
There is no city , London , or take any city in the world- Marc Steiner : So no city , even in Baltimore , our water comes from the surrounding counties and does not come from the city itself , that every city is the same way .
Clemens Messerschmid : This is every city .
We have to understand that a city , an urban space , has manpower and universities and industry , productivity , but resources , food and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the hinterland , comes from the rural space , okay ?
This is a given , any city planner or whatever knows that .
So if we consider , and we understand correctly that Gaza is not a country , Gaza is a city and it actually has the population density of a city , it functions as a city .
There is no solution long term at all to supply Gaza from within Gaza .
Marc Steiner : So the only way to really , the longterm solution has to do with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and a real peace taking place in that region so water can flow ?
That ’ s the only way out .
Clemens Messerschmid : No , not at all .
Not at all .
No , completely not .
I don ’ t think that is the case .
Let ’ s take technical first , if you allow me , the solution for every city on the planet is to be supplied from outside .
Marc Steiner : Right .
We have got- Clemens Messerschmid : Every city , Gaza has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ really deplore that all our donor country interventions , well-meaning , okay ?
I deplore that they are all banking on we try to make Gaza independent .
This is a futile effort .
Clemens Messerschmid : The UN tries .
The Germans try , the Americans try .
Everybody tries .
That is wrong .
You can not make a ghetto sealed off independent .
Marc Steiner : So then what is it the- Clemens Messerschmid : That doesn ’ t work , so supply from outside , do you need peace @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Why would you need peace ?
You need water from outside .
For example , we in the West Bank , we are occupied but we buy all our electricity from Israel .
We are a client of the occupation .
Is that nice ?
No , it ’ s not nice but it works .
We can do it .
You can even import from your enemy .
Is Israel willing to sell water or electricity to us in the West Bank ?
Yes , they are .
As a matter of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ where I ’ m living , up in the mountains with more rain than London , when I open the faucet , I get 100 % Israeli water bought from Israel .
I mean it ’ s Palestinian water , it comes but it ’ s bought from Israel .
We can buy it , the West Bank actually buys water .
Why should not Gaza buy water from Israel ?
I think , now this sounds like , wow , you are breaking a taboo , but I think Gaza has to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 60-million cubic meters per year from Israel .
By the way , Israel built a huge so-called water carrier where they tap into the Jordan River in the north of the country since the 1950s , ’ 60s , and pump all that water from Lake Tiberias down along the coastal plain to the cities and to the Negev .
The water is there , the water passes just a few kilometers by Gaza , but it doesn ’ t reach Gaza .
There is a huge water line flowing just by Gaza @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from Israel for a very pragmatic solution tomorrow , not after tomorrow , tomorrow .
The infrastructure is there .
Now , as a longterm perspective , when you talk about water rights , then you can renegotiate and can say now Palestinians in Gaza should get that water as part of their water allocation for national water rights of the whole country .
Clemens Messerschmid : Now then you can say this will be then given for free but it has to be given from outside .
That is as simple as @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Clemens Messerschmid , I wish we had a great deal more time because we can start the second and the third chapter next time we speak .
I appreciate the conversation .
We ’ ve learned a lot and I look forward to many more and thank you for your work as well , thank you .
I ’ m Marc Steiner here for The Real News Network .
Thank you for listening and watching us today .
Let us know what you think .
I ’ m really curious to see what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ things are heating in that area .
Take care .

Marc Steiner: Welcome to The Real News. I’m Marc Steiner, good to have you all with us. When you hear the word Gaza, what does that conjure up for you? War? Bombs being dropped? Rockets firing? Israeli blockades and occupation? Whatever it conjures up, it’s not positive and, too often, forgotten.In 2012, the United Nations issued a report entitled Gaza 2020: A livable place?, with a question mark. If the report took off the question mark, it would’ve answered its own question in the title. No, it’s not. From the Israeli blockades allowing just enough so complete starvation doesn’t take place, to both Israel and Egypt controlling the borders, the answer is it is not livable. What is even more alarming, if you look back in 2000, the World Trade Organization put out a report that said that 90% of the water in Gaza is unfit for drinking. That was true then, it’s worse now, and after all that the world has turned a blind eye to a continued siege which only made living conditions in the small, overcrowded strip worse and worse and worse, making it impossible for people to barely survive. So what if there’s a severe shortage in food medicine, electricity and any sense of freedom to come and go as you please everyone who lives in Gaza has their life threatened because they face one of the most severe water shortages of any place on the earth. Everyone’s life in Gaza is threatened. Lack of water means widespread outbreaks of kidney diseases, tooth diseases, among many other things that are easily preventable and because of this Middle East Eye published a video reminding the world of the cause and consequences of this water situation. Water environment expert Ahmed Helles spoke to Middle East Eye.Ahmed Helles: [foreign language 00:01:41].Translator: 96% of Gaza’s residents rely on groundwater for their daily needs, including drinking water. More than 35 to 40% of Gaza Strip sewage is not connected to a sewage system because of the Israeli blockade and of the Palestinian political division. So Gaza’s groundwater is exposed to pollution. Only 2% of Gaza’s groundwater is drinkable and that does not cover people with needs.
Marc Steiner: And we’re joined now by Clemens Messerschmid who is a hydrologist and spent many years studying the water situation in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. He’s written hundreds of articles and book chapters on the politics of water and Palestine, is now on the Faculty of Environment Natural Resources at the University of Freiburg and welcome, Clemens, good to have you with us.
Clemens Messerschmid: Hello?
Marc Steiner: So those United Nations and the WTO reports I alluded to earlier, I mean they clearly talk about the water being a crisis, but it’s not just that, water shortage, which I want you to explain. This has to do with water quality. I mean it’s why things have gotten worse instead of better. So talk a bit about what that means and why.
Clemens Messerschmid: Well, look, Gaza is under very different conditions than, for example, the other part of the Palestinian Occupied Territories, which is the West Bank. The West Bank is extremely water rich. Gaza is not. Gaza is not naturally water scarce, but I would say limited amount of water. Now you have in Gaza a very high population. You have two million people in an area half the size of Baltimore, of your city. So it’s densely crowded, however, Gaza under the occupation used to have higher amounts of water per capita than the West Bank simply because Israel did not completely block any groundwater access.
The problem in Gaza for the past decades was mainly water quality. You have too much salt in the water and then increasingly also pollution, part of which comes from wastewater, part of which comes from fertilizers in the agriculture, so that would be nitrates, which are directly very, very bad for the health and major concern for public health. And then additional pollution from solid waste and cars and the remainders of industry, all that. So water quality is for the past decades the main concern of Gazans. Water quantity now also becomes a very big concern, but this is due to on top of the top of the top of the blockade and everything in the past years, the power cuts; there is no more electricity in Gaza to just run the pumps. So then you get on top of very bad water quality also enormous supply gaps as water quantity problems.
Marc Steiner: So, Clemens, one of the issues here when you talk about this, I think it’s important to talk about is that, as we talked about before we went on the air together, Gaza was once almost a paradise. Gaza had plenty of water. You talked about the aquifer being shallow. We can talk a bit about that but the situation is completely different. People have to buy water. Most people have no access to water every day or clean water. People are getting ill and sick, some people dying from it, so this is a situation not just of a place that once knew it had water and could grow crops and lived a certain life that has been just destroyed and people are suffering daily, which is why so many people are fleeing Gaza by whatever way they can, so let’s get to the heart of that matter.
Clemens Messerschmid: You are right. Gaza used to be considered a lush place, an oasis. Alexander the Great made a stop on the famous fresh, sweet springs of Gaza. Gaza had a very vibrant agricultural sector even for export to Europe. Imagine this is because ground water is shallow, so you can easily drill a shallow well and get the water up and then irrigate your crops. Now everything has turned suddenly and very harshly with the so-called Nakba, which the Israeli call their independence or war for independence-
Marc Steiner: 1948?
Clemens Messerschmid: In 1948, and the Palestinians call it the catastrophe, the Nakba, when Gaza was first of all shrunk to a small portion of what used to be the Gaza District under the British mandate and then was crowded with refugees. So suddenly many of the existing wells were not any more accessible because they were outside this confined Gaza Strip that we see today on the map and in addition you had a quadrupling of the population. You had a catastrophic situation immediately, right then.
Since then during the 1950s, ’60s, under then-Egyptian rule, Gaza made great effort and made great progress in drilling more wells, getting back somehow on its feet. You still had the vibrant agriculture and then the occupation started and we have now over 50 years of Israeli occupation and now for a bit more than 10 years, the Israeli are out of the Gaza Strip, have redeployed outside and now Gaza is left on its own, but is hermetically sealed. I guess that everybody knows that there is a blockade. Gaza is now a ghetto, a slum, it’s a slum it’s a ghetto that is sealed off and that is quite unique on earth. I mean you have so many slums, but the point about a slum is that people move in and move out, not Gaza.
So it’s a slum that is left on its own. It’s a slum that has no supply from outside. This makes everything completely untenable and there is not even a hope to address even the most basic problems if you don’t address that issue, a sealed-off slum. Now Gaza water quality is getting worse and worse. It’s a crowded area. It’s not a countryside, it’s a city. Everything is densely populated, is inhabited, so you have now a lot of pollution. You have increasingly salt getting into the ground water. By the way, this is not really known, most of the salt does not come from the Mediterranean Sea. There is some sea water intrusion from the Mediterranean Sea into Gaza making it extremely salty, but you have a lot of saltwater flowing as brackish groundwater under the border with Israel from the Negev into Gaza and that is the main source of salt until today.
Marc Steiner: Is this some new phenomenon or is it always this way?
Clemens Messerschmid: This is a natural phenomenon, but it is increased as the pressure regime changes. So in Gaza the water level drops, then the flow from outside increases. We have a stronger gradient and then more water flows into Gaza and that is brackish water. So as things turned bad with the water levels, then this is increased, turning even worse with respect to salt inflows from outside. So basically what Gaza gets is salt from Israel, okay? Not very welcome.
Marc Steiner: All right, so the question is here, I mean, now talking directly as a hydrologist who’s worked in these issues, let’s talk a bit about what can be done. I mean, how does this change? It seems to me that that’s one of the things that’s missing is conversations. You know, you take Trump and his absurd plan aside for Israel and the Palestinians and go back to the harder ones. What changes this? What brings the vibrancy back? I mean right now you have a situation in Gaza where people have to buy water and the reality is that most of the unemployment is so severe, in some places 70, 80, 90%, people can’t afford even to buy the water they need. So what resolves this?
Clemens Messerschmid: Okay, we have to talk, I’m afraid, about three different issues. One thing is what can be, what should be immediately done, emergency interventions, what can be done. The second thing would be what would be a technical, longterm solution for Gaza in the water sector, technically speaking, okay? The third would be what is the hydro political landscape? How does the Trump deal of the century fall into place? What are the strategic interests of Israel? These are three different issues. Palestinians have drilled a lot of wells in Gaza, actually in Gaza we have too many Wells, not too little, we have too many wells, so we are pumping more water out the aquifer than comes in naturally from rain inside the strip. This is not sustainable. It’s getting worse by the day.
Gaza needs additional supplies. There is one proposal now that is unfortunately also supported by the Europeans and the Union for the Mediterranean, which is a French-led international initiative and so on, to bank on a technical fix which is called large seawater desalination. I’m very much against that for technical and for political reasons. But let’s first make the list. You could just drill more and let the water levels drop more and more and you will get into more and more trouble. Otherwise, there are no water sources for Gaza. There is no source, there is nothing you can do to get more water. You can always improve a little bit on the edge, of course you can treat your wastewater a bit better, but this will not solve the original problem that there is now also an absolute shortage of water. Under these situations also the water quality gets worse and worse. It was already said in the beginning, and this I want to confirm, 96% of the drinking water wells in Gaza have a chloride content or salt content above what is considered a drinking water standard by the World Health Organization, okay, so it’s not drinkable water.
Now you have a lot of small-scale desalination plants which do not use seawater, but they actually drill and tap into the slightly brackish, slightly salty groundwater and desalinate that water. To me this makes all the different and I’m not against that because it’s just a matter of energy and that of cost. If you have very little salt in the water or slightly brackish water, it costs not very much to desalinate. However, if you have highly saline sea water, it’s hugely expensive to desalinate or you can also call, if we talk about climate change, you spend a huge amount of energy just to produce fresh water. So these are two completely different things, but there are lots of technical and political problems with these small-scale, brackish water desalination plants where people are supplied because they have problems with the transport and with regulation, So the water often arrives at the household contaminated.
And anyway, this is not a solution. Yes, it’s a short-term remedy and it is a emergency measure, but it’s not a longterm solution to carry around water in trucks. Water should flow through a pipe and end up at your faucet. That’s how it should be in my house, in your house, in everybody’s house, okay? Full stop. And nothing less should for me be acceptable, okay, so it’s just short term, but we have all these problems. You could approach it but still then you still bank on groundwater. It’s not really something that will help forever, okay?
Now what should be done longterm? Well, there we have to look at Gaza in a very different way. We have to understand, I mean, I’m a German citizen. I’m living for 20 years in Palestine, but I originally come from Munich, Bavaria, one of the richest cities in Germany near the Alps, lots of rain, splendid, we have a little river and so on. Gaza, a few years back happened to have the same population density as Munich, the same area and the same population as Munich. Now, if I imagine Munich was sealed off for just two days from outside, no more road, no more tube, no more train, okay, and you would also cut off this little river, how would we survive? Munich gets its water from the Alps, some 90 kilometers away, I don’t know, 50 miles? you make the math. We get the water from the Alps, as a matter of fact, and now this is something really I would like to highlight. If you cut anything out of the video, don’t cut that. As a matter of fact, there is no city on planet Earth that is supplied from within its own perimeter with water. There is no city, London, or take any city in the world-
Marc Steiner: So no city, even in Baltimore, our water comes from the surrounding counties and does not come from the city itself, that every city is the same way.
Clemens Messerschmid: This is every city. We have to understand that a city, an urban space, has manpower and universities and industry, productivity, but resources, food and water and so on, comes from the hinterland, comes from the rural space, okay? This is a given, any city planner or whatever knows that. So if we consider, and we understand correctly that Gaza is not a country, Gaza is a city and it actually has the population density of a city, it functions as a city. There is no solution long term at all to supply Gaza from within Gaza.
Marc Steiner: So the only way to really, the longterm solution has to do with a real peace and self-determination for Palestinians and a real peace taking place in that region so water can flow? That’s the only way out.
Clemens Messerschmid: No, not at all. Not at all. No, completely not. I don’t think that is the case. Let’s take technical first, if you allow me, the solution for every city on the planet is to be supplied from outside.
Marc Steiner: Right. We have got-
Clemens Messerschmid: Every city, Gaza has to be supplied from outside. I really deplore that all our donor country interventions, well-meaning, okay? I deplore that they are all banking on we try to make Gaza independent. This is a futile effort.
Marc Steiner: Absolutely.
Clemens Messerschmid: The UN tries. The Germans try, the Americans try. Everybody tries. That is wrong. You cannot make a ghetto sealed off independent.
Marc Steiner: So then what is it the-
Clemens Messerschmid: That doesn’t work, so supply from outside, do you need peace to supply from outside? No. Why would you need peace? You need water from outside. For example, we in the West Bank, we are occupied but we buy all our electricity from Israel. We are a client of the occupation. Is that nice? No, it’s not nice but it works. We can do it. You can even import from your enemy. Is Israel willing to sell water or electricity to us in the West Bank? Yes, they are. As a matter of fact, me, in water-rich Ramallah where I’m living, up in the mountains with more rain than London, when I open the faucet, I get 100% Israeli water bought from Israel. I mean it’s Palestinian water, it comes but it’s bought from Israel. We can buy it, the West Bank actually buys water.
Why should not Gaza buy water from Israel? I think, now this sounds like, wow, you are breaking a taboo, but I think Gaza has to buy, let’s say, 60-million cubic meters per year from Israel. By the way, Israel built a huge so-called water carrier where they tap into the Jordan River in the north of the country since the 1950s, ’60s, and pump all that water from Lake Tiberias down along the coastal plain to the cities and to the Negev. The water is there, the water passes just a few kilometers by Gaza, but it doesn’t reach Gaza. There is a huge water line flowing just by Gaza, just buy 60 million cubic meters from Israel for a very pragmatic solution tomorrow, not after tomorrow, tomorrow. The infrastructure is there.
Now, as a longterm perspective, when you talk about water rights, then you can renegotiate and can say now Palestinians in Gaza should get that water as part of their water allocation for national water rights of the whole country.
Marc Steiner: So then-
Clemens Messerschmid: Now then you can say this will be then given for free but it has to be given from outside. That is as simple as it is.
Marc Steiner: So Clemens Messerschmid, I wish we had a great deal more time because we can start the second and the third chapter next time we speak. I appreciate the conversation. We’ve learned a lot and I look forward to many more and thank you for your work as well, thank you.
I’m Marc Steiner here for The Real News Network. Thank you for listening and watching us today. Let us know what you think. I’m really curious to see what you think about this and the way things are heating in that area. Take care.


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Jaisal is currently the Democracy Initiative Manager at the Solutions Journalism Network and is a former TRNN host, producer, and reporter. He mainly grew up in the Baltimore area and studied modern history at the University of Maryland, College Park. Before joining TRNN, he contributed print, radio, and TV reports to Free Speech Radio News, Democracy Now! and The Indypendent. Jaisal's mother has taught in the Baltimore City Public School system for the past 25 years. Follow him on Twitter @jaisalnoor.


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