therealnews--2020-04-02--What Happened To Cuba-US Relations Under Trump?

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Eddie Conway : Welcome to The Real News .
I ’ m Eddie Conway .
I ’ m here today to try to get an update on the relationships between the United States and Cuba , and I have with me Dr. Morgan and Comrade Montero .
Thanks for joining me .
Montero : Thank you very much .
Eddie Conway : First , I probably want to ask you to kind of give us a little background on Cuba for the audience that don @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Obama relaxing the sanctions and what happened after that with Trump reimposing it .
And it ’ s a big question , but where are we now ?
Montero : Well , the big issue during the Obama ’ s time was that it was broken , a kind of isolation , information isolation , that… That information that you can get only knowing people , when you talk with people and you… In the Obama times even as being maintained the restrictions for a very open visiting to Cuba by Americans because @ @ @ @ @ @ @ But the Obama time , meant to open the opportunities for Americans to come and to realize what is truly Cuba .
Because for most Americans , most common Americans , Cuba is a small country , mostly perhaps an enemy to the South .
And the information about how Cubans are , by the way , are very similar to Americans .
That information about how we live and what problems we have or what advantages we have , was practically denied by big media .
The Media normally focus , we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of them minor problems , existing some of them , minor problems and the Obama times meant to allow Americans to come and to talk with Cubans , getting the shades and the lights of the country , but even getting shades is a good thing for Cuba because you can bring to a normal person the idea that we are a country fighting for survival .
Fighting for having a better life and fighting to maintain the advantages we got after revolution .
Because after revolution , many Cubans became much more @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Cuban society that were essentially oppressed or were essentially not recognized before revolution .
They became recognized .
They became part of the normal life in country and the… For example the black layer of the population .
And the… The advantages we got , they are universal health care , free universal healthcare , the free universal education for Cubans , probably one of the best in Latin America if not the best .
And of course it is… They are among our goods and of course an American coming there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the bads , but the bads , were very different to the bads normally told here .
I think it was a very big advantage .
About one million and a half of Americans came and for the first time was broken that barrier of misinformation that occurred there .
And of course when the administration changed , the first action was to cut that because if you maintain that kind of fluid , normal flocks of persons are changing and telling the truth about what happens there , you can not maintain @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on behalf of apparently not giving money to the Cuban government because he was official reason , was to cut the opportunities to American , to come .
And to cut the opportunities to Cuban-American families to be together with the Cubans , with their counterparts .
It was another very important point to divide the families .
And of course that actions have been a reason for suffering for Cubans .
Reason for I think for losing for us , for Americans because for a possible cooperation in science .
My field @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
A positive cooperation in science between our countries could be excellent for both countries , not only for Cuba but also for USA because we are neighbors .
We can not avoid to be very near and to share waters and to share environment and to share many things , even to share ethnicities and even to share users .
Even to share a lot of things .
Eddie Conway : Okay .
Dr. Morgan , from an American standpoint , how do you see the relaxing of the travel restrictions under @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Trump and how does that impact Americans now , in terms of the information and ability to travel back and forth ?
Dr. Morgan : Well , certainly under President Obama there was an opening , a very small opening in reference to positive relationships .
At the same time we have to remember that the embargo remained or blockade is , as many of us call it , that being in Guantanamo remained and there were still a number of travel restrictions , although they were opened .
There was a small @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was doing it certainly for the reasons that would enable Cuba to in quote “ Change its perspective in its worldview.
” That was certainly a part of it all .
But it certainly was a step in the right direction .
Now with the restrictions , obviously US politics have a lot to do with it .
Even though certain things remain with the blockade and the being occupied , occupying Guantanamo and the travel restrictions .
They ’ ve just tightened .
In a general way , I think that Obama @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to the blockade and Guantanamo and however Obama certainly had an opening .
And this is not from my opinion , basically it is from the President at the time , Raul Castro , who talked about , in Granma , a newspaper , that one could get Cuban , things about events and things about Cuba , and he said what basically I have paraphrased in reference to the Obama opening .
Eddie Conway : Mm-hmm ( affirmative ) .
Okay .
Montero , there ’ s been recently a lot of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ program , doctors around the world et cetera .
This goes all the way back to the beginning , I believe , of the revolution .
Can you talk a little bit about this program ?
Montero : One of the most marvellous things have been doing Cuba .
Even during the time where we had not too much physicians .
We had at the beginning of the revolution in Cuba , there were 6,000 physicians .
3,000 of them emigrated mostly to here and Cuba remained with whole population near to seven @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Cuban government made a very , very strong effort to increase number of physicians and to improve the health of Cuban people .
Even in that times there were needs for physicians , for particular situations in Africa and Cuba sent some those of the physicians there for supporting the people .
I think that the problems of Cuba for helping foreign countries in the field of public health is very old in time .
The conditions people are going are always on the will of the people .
The people don ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are not going .
If I am contracted with you for something .
I am giving you something and you are giving me something and you do accept .
We agree .
If you ’ re not… Do not accept , we are not agreeing and you are not going .
That ’ s the way and people there and the Cuban physicians are going in the conditions .
I am not familiar with them but the condition they accept to go and practically 98 % , 99 % of people that goes @ @ @ @ @ @ @ there because any reason they want to have their own family , things like that , but suddenly this administration converted that action as a slavery .
It ’ s something that is hard to believe .
They are able to encourage governments in certain countries to abandon the cooperation with Cuba in terms of that .
Let me tell you , Cuba have been maintaining the supplies of anything we need because we are not producing all DNA we can produce .
We need to use .
Thanks to that medical cooperation @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and they pay with oil .
That ’ s a trade .
That ’ s a trade , a very , by the way , a very humanitarian trade because in exchange of that oil that is to be born in the factory , we are giving health to poor people .
To people who had no… I read some time .
I am not sure about the exact figure that when Hugo Chavez came to Venezuela as a President , they were a population of about 26 million people there .
Only @ @ @ @ @ @ @ health and Cubans became to help that country being the richest country in South America to have access public health to that very big , that very majority of the population that had not regular access to public health .
And I think that it was a wonderful thing how you can criticize that .
The condition people going there , they accept that it ’ s absolutely by their will .
They , once didn ’ t want to go .
They remain in Cuba work in their field or they even @ @ @ @ @ @ @ having also physicians in many other countries by themselves getting even much more money than they get there .
Eddie Conway : The infant mortality rate in Cuba is supposed to be the lowest in the two continents of Americas .
Eddie Conway : And that ’ s because of their medical advancement .
Or- Montero : It ’ s a whole policy .
Perhaps if you mentioned a very updated advance in medicine existing here in diverse clinics of USA , they have that advantage , not in Cuba .
But to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , you must have a comprehensive policy and the comprehensive policy includes not only having the best and up to date advanced in medicine , it ’ s also having the possibility of you to give care to those people that are not normally getting care from the very scientific point of view .
If they are not having that system of public health .
Every Cuban has a physician near to his lawn and I think that is a very positive action and you are sure that if you have a problem @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
You have a problem in the knee , I can go even to the family doctor , I can go to the polyclinic .
I can go to hospital .
I can get even the attention of one of the best physicians in Cuba in that direction , if I go to the hospital , where the people is working , I mean it ’ s a… Pay nothing .
I get that they should pay nothing and , and freely of course .
Perhaps the glamor of these… Of the hospitals @ @ @ @ @ @ @ here , but it ’ s for all people .
And you see there , people from all layers into society from all , even you can see they are people who are not agreeing with the society… Agreed with this but they are receiving that service .
I think that it ’ s a magnificent action .
One of the most human action of revolution and normally is neglected .
Eddie Conway : Then one of some of the most current things people might remember is the Ebola attacks .
Eddie Conway @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Cubans initial involvement- Montero : Eventually you were saying that , right ?
Montero : You were saying cooperate and that direction .
Montero : It was recognized by President Obama .
Eddie Conway : There we go .
And even presently they ’ ve been interacting with the Chinese over this , what ’ s this other disease ?
The , Codova ?
Eddie Conway : Yeah , coronavirus .
[ crosstalk 00:14:40 ] Yeah , I would think of the beer .
Dr. Morgan : And I did want to point @ @ @ @ @ @ @ my own eyes .
When Katrina happened and a tremendous amount of black people got trapped in New Orleans- Montero : It was a very sad story .
Dr. Morgan : because of white racism .
Cuba offered to help… Montero : You were offered to help .
Dr. Morgan : To send people and they were refused .
Montero : Cuba… Fidel Castro prepared a brigade of physicians for coming to support that and it was named after Henry Reeves .
Henry Reeves was a fighter for Cuban freedom in the 19th @ @ @ @ @ @ @ freedom indemnity and then , that brigade was named at that time as Henry Reeves .
I was told to the US government to accept that brigade to help working , to support the poor people are in new Orleans .
Well , they were not allowed .
They couldn ’ t go and the American government didn ’ t accept that support .
The brigade still exist .
We are sending that brigade everywhere where there are problems in Pakistan , South Africa , everywhere .
Eddie Conway : Mm-hmm ( affirmative @ @ @ @ @ @ @ think there ’ s such a… Cuba , is a small island , 90 miles away , 10 million people or why do you think there ’ s such hostility from the American government toward Cuba ?
Dr. Morgan : Right .
The bottom line is that Cuba represents exactly the opposite of what the system , economic and social system of the United States of America and by the birth rates that you mentioned by the medical issues , by not having profits , having not having profits , et cetera .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ these kinds of things .
To US rulers , not to the people , the US that they… The US rulers that they… That ’ s an anathema because of these particular issues .
And that ’ s why many of the… They go through these different cycles of , from being kinder and gentler with the exception of the blockade and the exception of not getting out of Guantanamo .
Can you imagine the fact that there is , there would be another country in your , in this… Another country that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Baltimore , let ’ s say for example .
Well that ’ s the same thing with Guantanamo .
Issue .
Big issue .
Eddie Conway : In the interest of time , you have the final statement , Is it anything you ’ d like to share with the American public about Cuba .
[ crosstalk 00:17:33 ] .
Montero : What I want you to tell you is that the best for both countries is to change .
The best for both countries is to communicate the truth , not the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ truth .
You can not show , we can not show a paradise .
We can show a place where people could live even much more happy if they could not be blockade by the most powerful economy in the world .
And we can share a lot of things .
Even contributing in a certain way to more happiness for the American people .
We can perhaps provide some solutions that it could be easily managed here .
Not changing the system .
Cubans are no one thing to change anything in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ matter of the Americans .
Changing things here is matter for Americans as changing thing in Cuba is a matter of Cubans .
That means it must be a basis of respect , but imitating some things from America could be useful for us .
Imitating some things from Cuba could be useful for you .
Why not ?
Why prejudice are going above that thing ?
Why magnifying problems ?
We have problems , yes we have problems , but of course if you only , Jose Marti was a very clear @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Cuban independence in the late 19th century and he had a very nice statement in one of the stories told to every Cuban boy or girl when they come to school , “ The sun has light and shades .
The grateful people only speak about light and the ungrateful people only mention shades.
” And I think , please go to Cuba .
See Cuba .
Exchange with Cubans .
Look at them , look at our work .
Look at our life .
Lift the blockade , let us do things @ @ @ @ @ @ @ do it much more better .
We could be doing much more better not biased by the permanent , manage to be in under siege by the most powerful economy in the world .
A Cuban can not even… I was in China some months ago and I learned about the Cuban who wanted to go to a bank in China .
To get some dollars and they changed and he was denied .
Because a Cuban can not get a dollar , it ’ s forbidden to , if a Cuban is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a special permission .
I ’ m here getting dollars because I am on the special permission of a special visa here .
Do you know , that ’ s crazy things .
Very crazy things .
We ’ re talking about a bill , to give you nothing knows where you put them Eddie Conway : The most current way to go to Cuba now , well not the current way , but the next thing that ’ s happening is something called the May Day Brigade and the May Day Brigade @ @ @ @ @ @ @ revolution .
They ’ re over millions of people over it .
Literally , I ’ ve been there .
Millions of people who are on May Day assemble and the people who are in the parade are mostly working people , Cuban working people , some others from other countries in the Caribbean , et cetera .
And that is… It ’ s really important to be able to do that .
And that ’ s what the organization that I belong to , the DC Metro Coalition in solidarity with the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for yourself , ” like Malcolm X said , “ See for yourself .
Listen for yourself and think for yourself.
” And speaking of Malcolm X , certainly the first time that I can recall this situation was when Malcolm helped to provide the accommodations at the Theresa hotel for the Cuban delegation , that nobody else would accept .
Since that time , there ’ s been the whole business with the [ inaudible 00:21:52 ] , with South Africa , the kinds of assistance that they received- Eddie Conway : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ but the Belgian Congo and Patrice Lumumba .
All of these kinds of folks… There ’ s a history to be said .
One other thing , there is a medical program as well where you as a student , you can apply to Cuba .
Cuba has an international , I think it ’ s over 20,000 over the years have been doctors and- Dr. Morgan : 500 each year from America , I mean from the United States .
Eddie Conway : From the US .
Eddie Conway : And the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is handling those particular kinds of things now .
The second thing is that on March at Fordham Law School , Fordham University Law School in New York city , March 20th to 22nd .
There ’ s an international conference in support and in solidarity with Cuba .
And that ’ s , that ’ s going to be an… If you can ’ t go to Cuba , then- Dr. Morgan : Go to New York .
Eddie Conway : Go to New York .
Okay .
That ’ s the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Montero : Thank you very much for inviting me in that direction and I hope that it could be managed and heard and [ thunk 00:23:14 ] .
Eddie Conway : Oh , and thank you for joining real news .

Eddie Conway talks to Dr. Ken Morgan from Baltimore and Professor Luis Montero-Cabrera about Cuba’s relief efforts and doctors, the cost of hostile relations with the US, and how Americans can still travel to Cuba under Trump’s restrictions.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Eddie Conway: Welcome to The Real News. I’m Eddie Conway. I’m here today to try to get an update on the relationships between the United States and Cuba, and I have with me Dr. Morgan and Comrade Montero. Thanks for joining me.
Montero: Thank you very much.
Eddie Conway: First, I probably want to ask you to kind of give us a little background on Cuba for the audience that don’t know and what happened with Obama relaxing the sanctions and what happened after that with Trump reimposing it. And it’s a big question, but where are we now?
Montero: Well, the big issue during the Obama’s time was that it was broken, a kind of isolation, information isolation, that… That information that you can get only knowing people, when you talk with people and you… In the Obama times even as being maintained the restrictions for a very open visiting to Cuba by Americans because they were maintained all the time. But the Obama time, meant to open the opportunities for Americans to come and to realize what is truly Cuba. Because for most Americans, most common Americans, Cuba is a small country, mostly perhaps an enemy to the South. And the information about how Cubans are, by the way, are very similar to Americans.
That information about how we live and what problems we have or what advantages we have, was practically denied by big media. The Media normally focus, we’re focusing in problems and some of them minor problems, existing some of them, minor problems and the Obama times meant to allow Americans to come and to talk with Cubans, getting the shades and the lights of the country, but even getting shades is a good thing for Cuba because you can bring to a normal person the idea that we are a country fighting for survival. Fighting for having a better life and fighting to maintain the advantages we got after revolution. Because after revolution, many Cubans became much more free.
Cubans would… Some layers of the Cuban society that were essentially oppressed or were essentially not recognized before revolution. They became recognized. They became part of the normal life in country and the… For example the black layer of the population. And the… The advantages we got, they are universal health care, free universal healthcare, the free universal education for Cubans, probably one of the best in Latin America if not the best. And of course it is… They are among our goods and of course an American coming there and talking with people could also heard the bads, but the bads, were very different to the bads normally told here. I think it was a very big advantage. About one million and a half of Americans came and for the first time was broken that barrier of misinformation that occurred there.
And of course when the administration changed, the first action was to cut that because if you maintain that kind of fluid, normal flocks of persons are changing and telling the truth about what happens there, you cannot maintain the lies. And the first action on behalf of apparently not giving money to the Cuban government because he was official reason, was to cut the opportunities to American, to come. And to cut the opportunities to Cuban-American families to be together with the Cubans, with their counterparts. It was another very important point to divide the families. And of course that actions have been a reason for suffering for Cubans. Reason for I think for losing for us, for Americans because for a possible cooperation in science. My field is science. I am a scientist. A positive cooperation in science between our countries could be excellent for both countries, not only for Cuba but also for USA because we are neighbors. We cannot avoid to be very near and to share waters and to share environment and to share many things, even to share ethnicities and even to share users. Even to share a lot of things.
Eddie Conway: Okay. Dr. Morgan, from an American standpoint, how do you see the relaxing of the travel restrictions under Obama, the reimposition of them under Trump and how does that impact Americans now, in terms of the information and ability to travel back and forth?
Dr. Morgan: Well, certainly under President Obama there was an opening, a very small opening in reference to positive relationships. At the same time we have to remember that the embargo remained or blockade is, as many of us call it, that being in Guantanamo remained and there were still a number of travel restrictions, although they were opened. There was a small window of opportunity and also President Obama was doing it certainly for the reasons that would enable Cuba to in quote “Change its perspective in its worldview.” That was certainly a part of it all.
But it certainly was a step in the right direction. Now with the restrictions, obviously US politics have a lot to do with it. Even though certain things remain with the blockade and the being occupied, occupying Guantanamo and the travel restrictions. They’ve just tightened. In a general way, I think that Obama and Trump were the same in reference to the blockade and Guantanamo and however Obama certainly had an opening. And this is not from my opinion, basically it is from the President at the time, Raul Castro, who talked about, in Granma, a newspaper, that one could get Cuban, things about events and things about Cuba, and he said what basically I have paraphrased in reference to the Obama opening.
Eddie Conway: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Okay. Montero, there’s been recently a lot of talk about the Cuban’s medical program, doctors around the world et cetera. This goes all the way back to the beginning, I believe, of the revolution. Can you talk a little bit about this program?
Montero: One of the most marvellous things have been doing Cuba. Even during the time where we had not too much physicians. We had at the beginning of the revolution in Cuba, there were 6,000 physicians. 3,000 of them emigrated mostly to here and Cuba remained with whole population near to seven million people with 3,000 physicians. The Cuban government made a very, very strong effort to increase number of physicians and to improve the health of Cuban people. Even in that times there were needs for physicians, for particular situations in Africa and Cuba sent some those of the physicians there for supporting the people. I think that the problems of Cuba for helping foreign countries in the field of public health is very old in time.
The conditions people are going are always on the will of the people. The people don’t want them to go. They are not going. If I am contracted with you for something. I am giving you something and you are giving me something and you do accept. We agree. If you’re not… Do not accept, we are not agreeing and you are not going. That’s the way and people there and the Cuban physicians are going in the conditions. I am not familiar with them but the condition they accept to go and practically 98%, 99% of people that goes and return. Some of them remain there because any reason they want to have their own family, things like that, but suddenly this administration converted that action as a slavery. It’s something that is hard to believe. They are able to encourage governments in certain countries to abandon the cooperation with Cuba in terms of that. Let me tell you, Cuba have been maintaining the supplies of anything we need because we are not producing all DNA we can produce. We need to use.
Thanks to that medical cooperation, we are sending physicians to Venezuela and they pay with oil. That’s a trade. That’s a trade, a very, by the way, a very humanitarian trade because in exchange of that oil that is to be born in the factory, we are giving health to poor people. To people who had no… I read some time. I am not sure about the exact figure that when Hugo Chavez came to Venezuela as a President, they were a population of about 26 million people there. Only 5 million had access to regular public health and Cubans became to help that country being the richest country in South America to have access public health to that very big, that very majority of the population that had not regular access to public health.
And I think that it was a wonderful thing how you can criticize that. The condition people going there, they accept that it’s absolutely by their will. They, once didn’t want to go. They remain in Cuba work in their field or they even fly to other places. We are having also physicians in many other countries by themselves getting even much more money than they get there.
Eddie Conway: The infant mortality rate in Cuba is supposed to be the lowest in the two continents of Americas.
Montero: Absolutely.
Eddie Conway: And that’s because of their medical advancement. Or-
Montero: And it’s a whole policy.
Eddie Conway: Mm-hmm (affirmative). The policy
Montero: It’s a whole policy. Perhaps if you mentioned a very updated advance in medicine existing here in diverse clinics of USA, they have that advantage, not in Cuba. But to sustain the life of a whole population, you must have a comprehensive policy and the comprehensive policy includes not only having the best and up to date advanced in medicine, it’s also having the possibility of you to give care to those people that are not normally getting care from the very scientific point of view. If they are not having that system of public health. Every Cuban has a physician near to his lawn and I think that is a very positive action and you are sure that if you have a problem, you have a lot of choices. You have a problem in the knee, I can go even to the family doctor, I can go to the polyclinic. I can go to hospital. I can get even the attention of one of the best physicians in Cuba in that direction, if I go to the hospital, where the people is working,
I mean it’s a… Pay nothing. I get that they should pay nothing and, and freely of course. Perhaps the glamor of these… Of the hospitals are not the same you can find here, but it’s for all people. And you see there, people from all layers into society from all, even you can see they are people who are not agreeing with the society… Agreed with this but they are receiving that service. I think that it’s a magnificent action. One of the most human action of revolution and normally is neglected.
Eddie Conway: Then one of some of the most current things people might remember is the Ebola attacks.
Montero: Absolutely.
Eddie Conway: There was never any mention of Cubans initial involvement-
Montero: Absolutely.
Eddie Conway: With that.
Montero: Eventually you were saying that, right?
Eddie Conway: Exactly.
Montero: You were saying cooperate and that direction.
Eddie Conway: And so-
Montero: It was recognized by President Obama.
Eddie Conway: There we go. And even presently they’ve been interacting with the Chinese over this, what’s this other disease? The, Codova?
Montero: Corona.
Dr. Morgan: Coronavirus.
Eddie Conway: Yeah, coronavirus. [crosstalk 00:14:40] Yeah, I would think of the beer.
Dr. Morgan: And I did want to point out something because I watched it with my own eyes. When Katrina happened and a tremendous amount of black people got trapped in New Orleans-
Montero: It was a very sad story.
Dr. Morgan: because of white racism. Cuba offered to help…
Montero: You were offered to help.
Dr. Morgan: To send people and they were refused.
Montero: Cuba… Fidel Castro prepared a brigade of physicians for coming to support that and it was named after Henry Reeves. Henry Reeves was a fighter for Cuban freedom in the 19th century. An American fighter for Cuban freedom indemnity and then, that brigade was named at that time as Henry Reeves. I was told to the US government to accept that brigade to help working, to support the poor people are in new Orleans. Well, they were not allowed. They couldn’t go and the American government didn’t accept that support. The brigade still exist. We are sending that brigade everywhere where there are problems in Pakistan, South Africa, everywhere.
Eddie Conway: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Okay, why do you think there’s such a… Cuba, is a small island, 90 miles away, 10 million people or why do you think there’s such hostility from the American government toward Cuba?
Dr. Morgan: Right. The bottom line is that Cuba represents exactly the opposite of what the system, economic and social system of the United States of America and by the birth rates that you mentioned by the medical issues, by not having profits, having not having profits, et cetera. All are a part of all of these kinds of things. To US rulers, not to the people, the US that they… The US rulers that they… That’s an anathema because of these particular issues. And that’s why many of the… They go through these different cycles of, from being kinder and gentler with the exception of the blockade and the exception of not getting out of Guantanamo. Can you imagine the fact that there is, there would be another country in your, in this… Another country that possesses land in this… In here in Baltimore, let’s say for example. Well that’s the same thing with Guantanamo. Issue. Big issue.
Eddie Conway: In the interest of time, you have the final statement, Is it anything you’d like to share with the American public about Cuba. [crosstalk 00:17:33].
Montero: What I want you to tell you is that the best for both countries is to change. The best for both countries is to communicate the truth, not the embedded truth. The truth is the truth. You cannot show, we cannot show a paradise. We can show a place where people could live even much more happy if they could not be blockade by the most powerful economy in the world. And we can share a lot of things. Even contributing in a certain way to more happiness for the American people. We can perhaps provide some solutions that it could be easily managed here. Not changing the system. Cubans are no one thing to change anything in this country. That’s a matter of the Americans. Changing things here is matter for Americans as changing thing in Cuba is a matter of Cubans. That means it must be a basis of respect, but imitating some things from America could be useful for us.
Imitating some things from Cuba could be useful for you. Why not? Why prejudice are going above that thing? Why magnifying problems? We have problems, yes we have problems, but of course if you only, Jose Marti was a very clear person, was a leader of the Cuban independence in the late 19th century and he had a very nice statement in one of the stories told to every Cuban boy or girl when they come to school, “The sun has light and shades. The grateful people only speak about light and the ungrateful people only mention shades.” And I think, please go to Cuba. See Cuba. Exchange with Cubans. Look at them, look at our work. Look at our life. Lift the blockade, let us do things perhaps for good. Probably we can do it much more better.
We could be doing much more better not biased by the permanent, manage to be in under siege by the most powerful economy in the world. A Cuban can not even… I was in China some months ago and I learned about the Cuban who wanted to go to a bank in China. To get some dollars and they changed and he was denied. Because a Cuban cannot get a dollar, it’s forbidden to, if a Cuban is leaving Cuba, it can only be a special permission. I’m here getting dollars because I am on the special permission of a special visa here. Do you know, that’s crazy things. Very crazy things. We’re talking about a bill, to give you nothing knows where you put them
Eddie Conway: The most current way to go to Cuba now, well not the current way, but the next thing that’s happening is something called the May Day Brigade and the May Day Brigade is very historical in reference to Cuban revolution. They’re over millions of people over it. Literally, I’ve been there. Millions of people who are on May Day assemble and the people who are in the parade are mostly working people, Cuban working people, some others from other countries in the Caribbean, et cetera. And that is… It’s really important to be able to do that. And that’s what the organization that I belong to, the DC Metro Coalition in solidarity with the Cuban revolution is saying that “See for yourself,” like Malcolm X said, “See for yourself. Listen for yourself and think for yourself.” And speaking of Malcolm X, certainly the first time that I can recall this situation was when Malcolm helped to provide the accommodations at the Theresa hotel for the Cuban delegation, that nobody else would accept. Since that time, there’s been the whole business with the [inaudible 00:21:52] , with South Africa, the kinds of assistance that they received-
Dr. Morgan: The Angola.
Eddie Conway: Cubans received from not just Angola, but the Belgian Congo and Patrice Lumumba. All of these kinds of folks… There’s a history to be said. One other thing, there is a medical program as well where you as a student, you can apply to Cuba. Cuba has an international, I think it’s over 20,000 over the years have been doctors and-
Dr. Morgan: 500 each year from America, I mean from the United States.
Eddie Conway: From the US.
Dr. Morgan: Yeah.
Eddie Conway: And the IFCO, I believe, Gail Walker is handling those particular kinds of things now. The second thing is that on March at Fordham Law School, Fordham University Law School in New York city, March 20th to 22nd. There’s an international conference in support and in solidarity with Cuba. And that’s, that’s going to be an… If you can’t go to Cuba, then-
Dr. Morgan: Go to New York.
Eddie Conway: Go to New York. Okay. That’s the final word. Thanks for joining me.
Montero: Thank you very much for inviting me in that direction and I hope that it could be managed and heard and [thunk 00:23:14] .
Eddie Conway: Okay.
Montero: He mentioned that.
Eddie Conway: Oh, and thank you for joining real news.
Studio: Cameron Granadino
Production: Cameron Granadino
Related
Republish This Story Republish our articles for free, online or in print, under a Creative Commons license.


therealnews--2020-04-02--Stir Crazy! : April 2, 2020

Stir Crazy! : April 2, 2020

All donations in the US and Canada are tax deductible .
To make a secure donation by credit or debit @ @ @ @ @ location , or select PayPal .

Close window X
We encourage republication of our original content. Please copy the HTML code in the textbox below, preserving the attribution and link to the article's original location, and only make minor cosmetic edits to the content on your site.


therealnews--2020-04-02--COVID-19 Lays Bare Neoliberalism’s Failure In Sudan

This is a rush transcript and pay contain errors .
It will be updated .
Jaisal Noor : Welcome to the Real News .
I ’ m Jaisal Noor .
It should come as no surprise , the Coronavirus outbreak will magnify the gulf between wealthy and developing countries .
As COVID-19 spreads in Africa , healthcare systems in countries like Sudan are being pushed to their limits .
A government-ordered curfew has entered its second week , but a lack of food medicine and protective gear has prompted hundreds to escape from quarantine centers .
Sudanese have been forced @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sanitizer .
Speaker 2 : There is an increase in the prices of the hand sanitizers , and we try to do that by giving it for free .
We are targeting the people who are compelled to work outdoors , and the health workers as well as the patients , the hospitals and their relatives .
Jaisal Noor : Well now joining us to discuss this is Khalid Ahmed .
He teaches political science at the African Studies Department at the University of Toronto .
Thanks so much for joining us .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Jaisal Noor : So give us the latest on the situation in Sudan right now .
Khalid Ahmed : So far we have six confirmed cases in Sudan and it seems that it hasn ’ t spread as much as people were afraid of .
But it ’ s a good sign .
Jaisal Noor : And now we know that in places like the US , we know that because of a shortage of tests , that ’ s been a major concern , a shortage of tests .
We don @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the crisis even here , the wealthiest country in the world .
What ’ s your idea ?
What ’ s your sense of the availability of tests and are they going to the people that need them ?
Khalid Ahmed : That ’ s actually the key question , because in my view what ’ s really happening is that lack of enough testing facilities , there is only one testing facility that was provided by the WHO for the whole Sudan .
And what is happening on the ground also is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ these six people who got infected , not all of them were gathered and tested to make sure that they ’ re free of the virus .
So it ’ s unknown exactly how many people , but the confirmed one , the government ’ s version of the story is that only six have been confirmed .
How many are actually infected with the virus but not known to the government is unknown at the moment .
And it ’ s very hard to tell .
Jaisal Noor : Can you talk @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the healthcare system ?
Because we know that once there ’ s one case , we know that ’ s going to spread .
And we know that countries like Sudan , the developing world is going to be more at risk of the effects of this compared to even Europe and the US , where we ’ ve seen really catastrophic impacts already .
Khalid Ahmed : I think this is the most important question that we need to consider .
And to put it in a context what really happened in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it ’ s very important to what ’ s happening today .
In the past 30 years , the former government , the dictatorial government , the NCP had literally [ inaudible 00:03:13 ] the healthcare services in Sudan .
And of course , as many people know , that it followed the new liberal approach to development and to governance and the healthcare system .
So it really sold off many hospitals and closed down many hospitals and [ inaudible 00:03:28 ] them .
And what ’ s ironic is that they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ himself has two private hospitals .
So there ’ s a conflict of interest there too .
And many of the hospitals that they sold off , they sold them to their own members of the party , because they were in geographically important places in the capital .
So they kind of looted these hospitals in favor of their own political parties .
And another very problematic issue here that we need to consider is that all the hiring in the Minister of Health , during the 30 years of the former @ @ @ @ @ @ @ NCP .
It wasn ’ t based on merit , it wasn ’ t based on the ability of the person and the capacity of the person to provide services .
So it was solely a kind of family affair for those in the NCP to bring all the people that they know and it ’ s [ inaudible 00:04:25 ] .
And that cost really good doctors and administrative personnel to leave Sudan , and left the Minister of Health in ruin .
As such , the previous government of Sudan minimized @ @ @ @ @ @ @ healthcare services to its people .
And that was felt in the indigenous population .
To a large degree , many people couldn ’ t afford the cost of healthcare .
Many people died out of the mal-management and misdiagnosis because of the quality of the doctors and the people that they brought over and the nurses and so forth .
It was devastating .
So what this current government inherited really is a disastrous Ministry , a healthcare system that is completely mal-managed .
It lacks resources , financial resources as well @ @ @ @ @ @ @ capacity to really provide the services .
But despite that , this government has tried to do what it can in a preventative way .
So all the preventative measures , they have done it appropriately .
To be more specific , what they ’ ve done is that they have immediately , as soon as the first case was announced and discovered , they locked down all the boarders and entry points , and they set up a quarantine place , a space .
Of course , I can talk about some @ @ @ @ @ @ @ places , but it started testing Sudanese returning home .
To my knowledge , that you will go through three different screening before you leave the airport if you ’ re coming back .
But the key point is there were all volunteers working there .
The Ministry itself does not have the capacity necessary , the human necessary to really conduct and to uphold these preventative measures .
Jaisal Noor : Now we ’ ve seen that even in the US , the birthplace of neoliberalism , this crisis has really shown @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the people .
And we ’ re talking about the wealthiest country in the world over here , and it ’ s been a complete disaster between mismanagement on Trump ’ s level , downplaying it for his own political reasons .
And then it ’ s really shown the healthcare system being pushed to a brink .
And we have a movement here to push back on neoliberal healthcare reforms to have single payer , which a majority of voters in the democratic primary actually have supported , even though they haven @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that idea .
But talk about the situation in Sudan .
Is there a movement that ’ s sort of pushing back on these reforms and thinking , look , we need to have a different path .
We need to invest in these vital resources , so we have them when they ’ re needed .
And as you said , it ’ s already caused suffering for people even before this crisis .
Khalid Ahmed : Well as you just alluded to , neoliberalism is based on minimizing the role of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ really just a regulatory institution , as opposed to its historical role to provide services and care and make sure that the welfare of its citizens is provided at the highest level .
Neoliberal is all about profit .
Now what it also did , whether it ’ s in the US or in Sudan , is that the government , at the time in Sudan spent more money on security and providing armaments and military equipment to maintain its grip on power , at the expense of the healthcare system , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ were supposed to really take care of .
So now what ’ s happening is that when this government inherited this disastrous situation and these disastrous institutions , what it had to rely on , the push back , is the civil society .
So now civil society organizations are picking up the path .
They ’ ve , for example , started cooking meals for those who are in quarantine right now .
So as part of the revolution that took over Sudan now , people are pushing back not just the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ pushing back in a collaborative sense of healthcare system , a collaborative sense of providing for the people without having to really rely on profit .
And that ’ s a good start .
Hopefully this will continue , but this current government doesn ’ t have the capacity to really change anything at the moment because it ’ s just new , and it also lacks the resources to start establishing , for example , a stronger public healthcare system .
But people are becoming aware and more aware of how devastating @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the healthcare system in Sudan .
And they ’ re taking it upon themselves right now really to try to change that .
Jaisal Noor : Yes .
And that really speaks to how many of these struggles are universal .
And so it ’ s good to learn about the same struggles in Sudan just like we ’ ve been talking about in the United States and right here in Baltimore .
Khalid Ahmed , thank you so much for joining us .
Jaisal Noor : And thank you for joining us @ @ @ @ @ @

The failure of neoliberalism in addressing the coronavirus crisis is not limited to Sudan. It is a global failure.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and pay contain errors. It will be updated.
Jaisal Noor: Welcome to the Real News. I’m Jaisal Noor. It should come as no surprise, the Coronavirus outbreak will magnify the gulf between wealthy and developing countries. As COVID-19 spreads in Africa, healthcare systems in countries like Sudan are being pushed to their limits. A government-ordered curfew has entered its second week, but a lack of food medicine and protective gear has prompted hundreds to escape from quarantine centers. Sudanese have been forced to produce their own supplies like hand sanitizer.
Speaker 2: There is an increase in the prices of the hand sanitizers, and we try to do that by giving it for free. We are targeting the people who are compelled to work outdoors, and the health workers as well as the patients, the hospitals and their relatives.
Jaisal Noor: Well now joining us to discuss this is Khalid Ahmed. He teaches political science at the African Studies Department at the University of Toronto. Thanks so much for joining us.
Khalid Ahmed: Thank you for having.
Jaisal Noor: So give us the latest on the situation in Sudan right now.
Khalid Ahmed: So far we have six confirmed cases in Sudan and it seems that it hasn’t spread as much as people were afraid of. But it’s a good sign.
Jaisal Noor: And now we know that in places like the US, we know that because of a shortage of tests, that’s been a major concern, a shortage of tests. We don’t know the full scale of the crisis even here, the wealthiest country in the world. What’s your idea? What’s your sense of the availability of tests and are they going to the people that need them?
Khalid Ahmed: That’s actually the key question, because in my view what’s really happening is that lack of enough testing facilities, there is only one testing facility that was provided by the WHO for the whole Sudan. And what is happening on the ground also is that people who work on contact with these six people who got infected, not all of them were gathered and tested to make sure that they’re free of the virus. So it’s unknown exactly how many people, but the confirmed one, the government’s version of the story is that only six have been confirmed. How many are actually infected with the virus but not known to the government is unknown at the moment. And it’s very hard to tell.
Jaisal Noor: Can you talk about your sense, your evaluation of the healthcare system? Because we know that once there’s one case, we know that’s going to spread. And we know that countries like Sudan, the developing world is going to be more at risk of the effects of this compared to even Europe and the US, where we’ve seen really catastrophic impacts already.
Khalid Ahmed: I think this is the most important question that we need to consider. And to put it in a context what really happened in Sudan in the past 30 years, it’s very important to what’s happening today. In the past 30 years, the former government, the dictatorial government, the NCP had literally [inaudible 00:03:13] the healthcare services in Sudan. And of course, as many people know, that it followed the new liberal approach to development and to governance and the healthcare system. So it really sold off many hospitals and closed down many hospitals and [inaudible 00:03:28] them. And what’s ironic is that they have actually, the Minister of Health himself has two private hospitals. So there’s a conflict of interest there too. And many of the hospitals that they sold off, they sold them to their own members of the party, because they were in geographically important places in the capital. So they kind of looted these hospitals in favor of their own political parties.
And another very problematic issue here that we need to consider is that all the hiring in the Minister of Health, during the 30 years of the former government was based on loyalty to the NCP. It wasn’t based on merit, it wasn’t based on the ability of the person and the capacity of the person to provide services. So it was solely a kind of family affair for those in the NCP to bring all the people that they know and it’s [inaudible 00:04:25]. And that cost really good doctors and administrative personnel to leave Sudan, and left the Minister of Health in ruin.
As such, the previous government of Sudan minimized the role of the state in providing healthcare services to its people. And that was felt in the indigenous population. To a large degree, many people couldn’t afford the cost of healthcare. Many people died out of the mal-management and misdiagnosis because of the quality of the doctors and the people that they brought over and the nurses and so forth. It was devastating.
So what this current government inherited really is a disastrous Ministry, a healthcare system that is completely mal-managed. It lacks resources, financial resources as well as human resources. It lacks the capacity to really provide the services. But despite that, this government has tried to do what it can in a preventative way. So all the preventative measures, they have done it appropriately. To be more specific, what they’ve done is that they have immediately, as soon as the first case was announced and discovered, they locked down all the boarders and entry points, and they set up a quarantine place, a space. Of course, I can talk about some of the problems that face these quarantine places, but it started testing Sudanese returning home. To my knowledge, that you will go through three different screening before you leave the airport if you’re coming back.
But the key point is there were all volunteers working there. The Ministry itself does not have the capacity necessary, the human necessary to really conduct and to uphold these preventative measures.
Jaisal Noor: Now we’ve seen that even in the US, the birthplace of neoliberalism, this crisis has really shown its failures, its inability to serve the people. And we’re talking about the wealthiest country in the world over here, and it’s been a complete disaster between mismanagement on Trump’s level, downplaying it for his own political reasons. And then it’s really shown the healthcare system being pushed to a brink.
And we have a movement here to push back on neoliberal healthcare reforms to have single payer, which a majority of voters in the democratic primary actually have supported, even though they haven’t supported the candidate who supports that idea. But talk about the situation in Sudan. Is there a movement that’s sort of pushing back on these reforms and thinking, look, we need to have a different path. We need to invest in these vital resources, so we have them when they’re needed. And as you said, it’s already caused suffering for people even before this crisis.
Khalid Ahmed: Well as you just alluded to, neoliberalism is based on minimizing the role of the state, and reducing it to really just a regulatory institution, as opposed to its historical role to provide services and care and make sure that the welfare of its citizens is provided at the highest level. Neoliberal is all about profit.
Now what it also did, whether it’s in the US or in Sudan, is that the government, at the time in Sudan spent more money on security and providing armaments and military equipment to maintain its grip on power, at the expense of the healthcare system, and education system and other services that there were supposed to really take care of.
So now what’s happening is that when this government inherited this disastrous situation and these disastrous institutions, what it had to rely on, the push back, is the civil society. So now civil society organizations are picking up the path. They’ve, for example, started cooking meals for those who are in quarantine right now.
So as part of the revolution that took over Sudan now, people are pushing back not just the focus on privatization, but people are pushing back in a collaborative sense of healthcare system, a collaborative sense of providing for the people without having to really rely on profit. And that’s a good start.
Hopefully this will continue, but this current government doesn’t have the capacity to really change anything at the moment because it’s just new, and it also lacks the resources to start establishing, for example, a stronger public healthcare system. But people are becoming aware and more aware of how devastating the privatization that was taking place in the healthcare system in Sudan. And they’re taking it upon themselves right now really to try to change that.
Jaisal Noor: Yes. And that really speaks to how many of these struggles are universal. And so it’s good to learn about the same struggles in Sudan just like we’ve been talking about in the United States and right here in Baltimore. Khalid Ahmed, thank you so much for joining us.
Khalid Ahmed: Any time. Stay safe.
Jaisal Noor: And thank you for joining us at the Real News Network.
Related
Republish This Story Republish our articles for free, online or in print, under a Creative Commons license.


therealnews--2020-04-03--Fired Amazon Worker Chris Smalls Responds To Leaked Smear Campaign Plans

Amazon executives described Smalls as “not smart or articulate.” Smalls was fired after organizing a walkout over employee safety at Amazon’s Staten Island warehouse.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Speaker 1: We want that building shut down for two weeks, and we want it sanitized, full two weeks with pay.
Jaisal Noor: Welcome to the Real News. I’m Jaisal Noor Amazon executives circulated a memo discussing plans to smear fired worker Chris Smalls who is organizing a strike against unsafe working conditions, by Vice as Paul Blest reported. The memo was discussed at a meeting, attending by CEO Jeff Bezos, and stated, “Smalls is not smart or articulate.” New York congresswoman, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, tweeted that this showed Amazon was carrying out a racist and classist PR campaign. She said, “If execs are as concerned about worked health and safety as they claim, then they should provided the full paid sick leave all workers deserve.” Amazon workers are among the ranks of those deemed essential, which means they are continuing to perform their jobs despite the risk of COVID-19. Many say their employers are endangering their lives by failing to protect them from this ongoing pandemic.
Well now, joining us to respond to this leak and to discuss all of this is Chris Smalls himself. He was fired from Amazon, they say, from failing to socially distance. Thank you so much for joining us.
Chris Smalls: Thank you for having me. Happy to be here.
Jaisal Noor: We know this is a crazy time for everybody, but especially for frontline workers like yourself, and especially for folks like yourself that risked it all. Just having a job right now is really important to people, and you risked it all to fight for your fellow workers. I wanted to start off by asking you to respond to this memo that laid out their plan to smear you, undermine you, attack your reputation and what you stand for saying your not smart or articulate. Like AOC says, “That’s racist too.” Give us your response.
Chris Smalls: My response to that is thank you. No lie, we know what we’re dealing with. Like you said, the entire knows exactly who these people are now. My response is thank you. Now we know what they want to do, but guess what, I’m not falling for the trap. This is not about Chris Smalls. It never was. This is about the people. Like you said, “It’s about the frontline workers.” It’s about all of us. They’re not battling me. They’re battling everybody, everybody that I’m trying to give a voice to, that’s standing with me, that’s supporting me. It’s going to be Amazon versus everybody. It’s not going to ever be Amazon versus Chris Smalls. If that’s what they think is going to happen, they’re sadly mistaken.
Jaisal Noor: Amazon spokesperson Jay Carney who is the former press secretary for President Obama, he got ratioed on Twitter for saying that you purposely violated social distancing rules repeatedly, and you were put on paid 14-day quarantine for COVID exposure. He said you returned to the site, and you put your team at risk. It turns out he was repeating those talking points too right there. He was widely attached for that. Do you have a response to this PR? Basically they’re saying that you put workers at risk.
Chris Smalls: Did you check my Twitter feed recently? If you look at my Twitter right now, there’s my response. That was just two weeks ago. What safety guidelines? We didn’t have any. We didn’t have any. We just had a huge party two weeks ago. Activities committee. Where these rule are? Where are they in black and white? When was I warned multiple times? It’s all false. Don’t believe the hype. As you can see, this company is full of lies, full of coverups. That’s what they are. Slowly, but surely, it’s unraveling. They put a target on me. They picked the wrong person. That’s all I’ve got to say. They picked the wrong person. I did nothing but been dedicated to this company for the last five years of my life.
Last week I was a regular guy. I’m a father of three kids. I didn’t ask for none of this. On Monday, the world fell into my lap. I’m going to embrace it. That’s exactly what I’m doing. I’m telling the truth, so if my truth is exposing what this company really is, so be it. As you can see, I’m not the only one to feel that way. Everybody is coming together now in solidarity. That’s exactly what I wanted. We’re going to need that to obviously take down these billionaires that’s collecting all this blood money while the people that have the power, I want you guys to know that we have the power. We’re the ones that’s making them rich. How to hurt them? Stop their money. Walk out. Stop working for them. You have the power. If you stop working, they don’t get money. Period.
Jaisal Noor: Now, I’ve been talking to Amazon workers here in Baltimore where they’ve also had cases of COVID-19 at the warehouses. This is what they told me. They said that you’re firing was a message. They’re trying to make an example out of you to deter other organizing in workplaces. They say, “They also face unsafe conditions.” They say, “Inside these warehouses it’s impossible to socially distance because Amazon is trying to hire 100,000 more workers.” I talked to someone that goes to these shifts in the middle of the night, but there’s still 100 people there or more.
Chris Smalls: Yeah.
Jaisal Noor: Yeah. There’s maybe people corroborating what you’re saying.
Chris Smalls: Hmm-hmm.
Jaisal Noor: Talk more about what your message is to these workers because for a lot of folks if they had a second job that job is gone now. If they worked at a restaurant or a bookstore, that place is shut down. This might be their only chance to put food on the table.
Chris Smalls: Understood. Yeah, I am these workers. I was, well, before they terminated me. I know exactly what they’re going through. People are emailing me from all over the world. Canada, Brazil, Tokyo, London, you name it, I’m getting emails from buildings from all over. I don’t even have that anymore. I know exactly what you all are going through. We’ve got to do something about it. The only way we do something about it right now, like I just said, walk out. The building is run by people. These billionaires don’t know anything about what’s going on in our operations. Nothing. All they know is it’s got to get done. All they know is the money is coming in. They don’t know how it’s coming in. That’s the crazy thing, they don’t even know how.
In response to that, piggybacking off of that, that’s why they all are just repeating the same thing, I’ve violated safety protocol. They don’t even know what they’re talking about. They’re repeating what that building is telling them to repeat. It’s going to backfire on all of them because they have my full consent. Release the video of what I did for the entire week. That’s all you’ve got to do Amazon. Release it. I have nothing to hide. I’m telling my truth. My truth is exposing them. We know what we’re dealing with. We know we’re dealing with a pandemic. We know we’re dealing with a virus that’s in every last one of these buildings. If it’s not in your building right now, you listen and watching, it’s coming if it’s not already there.
We know that. That’s a fact. That’s a fact. It’s dangerous to work in these buildings right now. They’re trying to clean these buildings. Set them down. Sanitize. The building don’t have the virus. The people have the virus. You can’t stop it. You can’t stop the spread of it once the people get it. The building has cardboard, metal, plastic. It can host the virus for a little bit of time, but the people are the ones that’s breeding it. This is what we’ve got to realize. You can’t practice social distancing in a building. You’re right. You can’t. The way we work, the way we operate, be on top of each other, we eat lunch together, we go in and out the doors, putting food in and out of the microwaves, you’ve got to know that.
Yeah, I know. I know exactly what you all are doing. Them yellow totes? You can’t clean all of the totes. Who knows how many we’re dealing with. These are the things you all have got to be mindful of. Do you all really want to risk your lives with some money right now? I know they’re paying two dollars extra plus double time, it’s blood money. They tell you, “Go make $6000 a month,” but you’re going to take home the coronavirus, or stay home with no pay. Those are your choices right there. Do you really want that? No. The world needs to wake up. My message to world is, “Think about it. God forbid, 800,000 employees worldwide, God forbid we’re all carriers.” You’ve got to wake up. 500,000 employees nationwide, 500,000. This virus spreads to two and a half people.
Two and a half, 500,000, two million, two million plus another two and a half, we’re about to end human life literally. What do you think? Think of the bigger picture. One of the Amazon principles, “Think big.” Right? Always one of the Amazon principles, “Think big. Think big.” Jeff Bezos is thinking big. All he’s preaching about is his spacecraft, his space ship. What are you going to do? Kill off the population and then fly to another planet? It seems like that. It seems that way.
Jaisal Noor: Chris. Chris, we want to thank you so much for joining us. We know that this is a really difficult time for you, so we appreciate you taking the time out and speaking to us. We definitely want to have you on again. Keep up with your struggle and your fight. Thanks so much for speaking with us.
Chris Smalls: Thank you for having me. Stay safe you all.
Jaisal Noor: Thank you for joining us at the Real News Network.
Studio: Dwayne Gladden
Production: Dwayne Gladden, Andrew Corkery
Related
Republish This Story Republish our articles for free, online or in print, under a Creative Commons license.


therealnews--2020-04-03--The $15 Million Bounty On Maduro Is One More Attempt To Unseat Him

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Kim Brown : Welcome to The Real News .
I ’ m Kim Brown .
On Thursday , March 26 , U.S. Attorney General Bill Barr announced the $ 15 million bounty on the head of the president of Venezuela , Nicolas Maduro , accusing him of drug trafficking .
Here was Maduro ’ s response .
Speaker 2 : The government of Donald Trump , in an action that is extravagantly extremist , vulgar , and miserable , has put out a number of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the 19th century who puts a price on the head of revolutionaries .
Kim Brown : Well , joining us today to discuss the ramifications of this is Joe Emersberger .
He is a writer and a contributor to FAIR.org , The Canary , also Telesur English and CounterPunch .
He joins us today from Windsor , Ontario .
Joe , thank you so much for being here .
Joe Emersberger : Thanks for having me on .
Kim Brown : So on its face , the charges are a bit laughable @ @ @ @ @ @ @ time of a pandemic that the United States government is spending any time attempting to charge the sovereign head of another country with drug trafficking .
Does the United States have any jurisdiction in this area to be charging Nicolas Maduro with drug trafficking ?
Joe Emersberger : Well , yeah .
The charges are laughable .
I mean , they can claim jurisdiction .
They can make an argument that drug trafficking brings drugs into the United States and does harm to the United States .
In fact , the indictment against @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is to , in somehow unexplained way , flood the United States with drugs to harm the United States and weaken it , which is really preposterous .
The only people who could take that kind of allegation seriously are people who just believe that anyone the United States opposes has to be totally insane .
I mean , for example , Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator , but he was not irrational .
He was not insane .
He did not have weapons of mass destruction .
But the part of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ United States wants to destroy is that they ’ re just out of their minds , they have no rationality , and so anything goes .
You can accuse them of anything .
So the allegation itself , if you read the indictment , not only was Maduro involved , which is frankly laughable itself , but that the strategy behind it was to somehow hurt the United States by flooding it with drugs .
I mean , it ’ s just crazy .
And also in the region , drugs are mainly @ @ @ @ @ @ @ other countries whose governments are aligned with the United States , and only a small percentage even goes through Venezuela at all .
That ’ s just according to the DEA ’ s own data .
So it really doesn ’ t make sense on its face .
But I think there ’ s another aspect that you were saying , a few other important points .
One is that one of the star witnesses that the United States is going to call is a general who says publicly that he was getting @ @ @ @ @ @ @ government by force and that he was working with Juan Guaidó , the person the U.S. recognizes as president , and also with U.S. advisors .
So based on all he said publicly , actually Venezuela would have about a thousand times more grounds for their courts , for their prosecutors to issue indictments against U.S. officials to charge them and to seek to extradite them into Venezuela to face charges for this conspiracy , which is a conspiracy to do violence against the government .
Now , of course , that will @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ t powerful enough to enforce its laws the way the United States gets to play global cop and claim jurisdiction all over the world .
But actually , Venezuela has much more grounds to charge and to extradite U.S. officials by now than the other way around .
Kim Brown : So Joe , this seems like the latest attempt by the United States to undermine and discredit the elected leadership of Venezuela as we ’ re seeing here with Nicolas Maduro , and then we saw numerous times under the leadership @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is the United States determined to seize control in some way , shape , or form of Venezuela ?
Joe Emersberger : Well , what we see thanks to the WikiLeaks revelations , when you look at what U.S. officials are saying in private to each other and their overwhelming concern is especially this idea that the United States wants to play lender of last resort always throughout the Americas .
They want to be the country that others rely on , depend on .
And if there is an alternative source of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ could potentially become an alternative for other countries , that undermines their ability to exert influence in the region .
And that ’ s their overwhelming concern .
If you look at the countries that United States has gone after in recent times , Iraq , Russia , Iran , Venezuela , they ’ re all oil exporting countries , big oil exporting countries , and that oil wealth gives them the potential , mind you , to become regional players in their own right .
Kim Brown : Joe , when I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ first thought was , “ Oh , this is Manuel Noriega all over again.
” For those who don ’ t remember the 1989 invasion of Panama and the forcible removal of then president Manuel Noriega , he was also brought up on drug trafficking charges in the United States where he did eventually serve some time .
The U.S. government , in your opinion , Joe , are they going to attempt … We know they put the $ 15 million bounty on president Maduro ’ s head , but is there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of Venezuela in order to extract him ?
Joe Emersberger : I think a lot of things are , I think , more likely .
One thing that ’ s important to remember about Panama , like some people have said , it basically came pre-invaded because it already had a U.S. base there , which Venezuela fortunately does not have , so it would be more difficult for that region .
But the trends are definitely extremely alarming .
As of August of 2017 , Trump has repeatedly made military threats and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it clear to the generals , made it crystal clear , publicly encouraging to rebel , sends the message constantly that if you do something to Maduro , if you overthrow the government , no problem .
You ’ re not going to have any problems from us .
We ’ ll welcome it .
So they ’ ve been sending that message repeatedly .
So could they go to the extreme of actually doing it themselves ?
I suspect what they ’ d try first is what this general I talked about @ @ @ @ @ @ @ try and organize some kind of proxy for a contra force like they used in Nicaragua to attack , but so far that hasn ’ t got off the ground .
But yeah , it ’ s a horrifying prospect because as they escalate the rhetoric like this , at some point what they call U.S. credibility becomes at stake .
The mafia Don can only threaten you so many times , eventually the mafia Don has to follow through or he loses street cred .
So that ’ s kind of how @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the U.S. as the mafia who eventually might have to establish its street cred by following through on its threats .
For now , they ’ re just threats , but they ’ re very frightening .
Kim Brown : So the Maduro government in response to this latest action by the U.S. has called this an act of desperation .
After all the other attempts have failed , political coups , economic sanctions , Nicolas Maduro still remains in power .
However , could this latest move actually deal a blow to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
Joe Emersberger : Well , we have these sanctions that Trump introduced in August of 2017 .
He basically drastically intensified Obama ’ s sanctions , made them much more punishing , made them much more clearly aimed at the entire economy .
So by the end of 2018 , a study by Mark Weisbrot and Jeffrey Sachs said that by the end of 2018 , they had already possibly been linked to 40,000 deaths .
Now since that time , he ’ s kept increasing the severity of the sanctions .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ So what ’ s happened with the coronavirus epidemic , there ’ s more pressure on them now .
I think they ’ re feeling a bit of pressure in the U.S. , this is really murderous .
We have this global pandemic and you guys are still punishing countries .
And so it seems like the Trump administration ’ s tactic is just to double down and get even crazier .
No , now we ’ re going to have to try even harder to demonize them to justify these murderous sanctions @ @ @ @ @ @ @ like their defense has been an offense , just get even crazier with the allegations .
Kim Brown : Are we able to get a sense as to how this news or rather the support on the ground in Venezuela for either Nicolas Maduro or Juan Guaidó ?
How are the Venezuelan people dealing , obviously , with everything that they have had in terms of the recent challenges in dealing with daily life in the wake of all these sanctions and now with the COVID-19 outbreak , a pandemic obviously affecting their @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Venezuelan people have trust in and who are they recognizing as their own leader ?
Are we able to get a sense of that ?
Joe Emersberger : Well , the best polls we have , the best indications we have are that Maduro has a very solid base of at least 30 % of the population .
That ’ s how many turned out to vote for him in the 2018 presidential election .
It also closely resembles what happened in the regional elections , which were done several months earlier .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ base .
Guaidó has not shown any capacity to mobilize people , even before the pandemic , of course , closed down mass mobilizations for anybody .
But also he himself is linked to drug traffickers .
He ’ s been photographed using a Colombian drug trafficking gang to basically serve as his informal security guards while he was performing an aid stunt back in February of 2019 .
So he ’ s been hit with scandals .
He ’ s failed to do what he said he was going to do , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ his credibility is very low , but probably 20 , 30 % of the public are so against the government that they ’ ll support anybody , even him .
But they both have issues , but I would say Maduro has a solid support .
But of course , you have to wonder , being hit so hard with sanctions , how long they can go without suffering a horrendous humanitarian disaster .
It ’ s not even a question of whether he stays in power or not , but how this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ humanitarian consequences of U.S. sanctions .
And on top of that , a pandemic , and on top of that , a dramatic fall in oil prices that has taken place since the coronavirus hit .
The oil prices have fallen by half , so that ’ s very serious .
Kim Brown : We ’ ve been speaking with Joe Emersberger .
He is a writer and you can find his work at a variety of places , including FAIR.org , Telesur English , The Canary , and CounterPunch .
And we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ charging Venezuelan president Nicolas Maduro with drug trafficking .
In response , the Maduro government has called this latest act desperate .
Joe , we appreciate your time .
Thank you so much for speaking with us .
Joe Emersberger : Thank you very much .
Kim Brown : And thank you for watching The Real News Network .

The US says Maduro collaborated with the FARC to “flood the US with cocaine.” It’s an additional legal pressure to get Venezuela’s president to step down.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Kim Brown: Welcome to The Real News. I’m Kim Brown. On Thursday, March 26, U.S. Attorney General Bill Barr announced the $15 million bounty on the head of the president of Venezuela, Nicolas Maduro, accusing him of drug trafficking. Here was Maduro’s response.
Speaker 2: The government of Donald Trump, in an action that is extravagantly extremist, vulgar, and miserable, has put out a number of false accusations, like a racist cowboy of the 19th century who puts a price on the head of revolutionaries.
Kim Brown: Well, joining us today to discuss the ramifications of this is Joe Emersberger. He is a writer and a contributor to FAIR.org, The Canary, also Telesur English and CounterPunch. He joins us today from Windsor, Ontario. Joe, thank you so much for being here.
Joe Emersberger: Thanks for having me on.
Kim Brown: So on its face, the charges are a bit laughable, clearly serious, but at a time of a pandemic that the United States government is spending any time attempting to charge the sovereign head of another country with drug trafficking. Does the United States have any jurisdiction in this area to be charging Nicolas Maduro with drug trafficking?
Joe Emersberger: Well, yeah. The charges are laughable. I mean, they can claim jurisdiction. They can make an argument that drug trafficking brings drugs into the United States and does harm to the United States. In fact, the indictment against Maduro says that Maduro’s strategy is to, in somehow unexplained way, flood the United States with drugs to harm the United States and weaken it, which is really preposterous. The only people who could take that kind of allegation seriously are people who just believe that anyone the United States opposes has to be totally insane. I mean, for example, Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator, but he was not irrational. He was not insane. He did not have weapons of mass destruction. But the part of the propaganda is always that whoever the United States wants to destroy is that they’re just out of their minds, they have no rationality, and so anything goes. You can accuse them of anything.
So the allegation itself, if you read the indictment, not only was Maduro involved, which is frankly laughable itself, but that the strategy behind it was to somehow hurt the United States by flooding it with drugs. I mean, it’s just crazy. And also in the region, drugs are mainly produced in Colombia, mainly transported through other countries whose governments are aligned with the United States, and only a small percentage even goes through Venezuela at all. That’s just according to the DEA’s own data. So it really doesn’t make sense on its face.
But I think there’s another aspect that you were saying, a few other important points. One is that one of the star witnesses that the United States is going to call is a general who says publicly that he was getting arms together to overthrow Venezuela’s government by force and that he was working with Juan Guaidó, the person the U.S. recognizes as president, and also with U.S. advisors. So based on all he said publicly, actually Venezuela would have about a thousand times more grounds for their courts, for their prosecutors to issue indictments against U.S. officials to charge them and to seek to extradite them into Venezuela to face charges for this conspiracy, which is a conspiracy to do violence against the government.
Now, of course, that will never happen because the country just isn’t powerful enough to enforce its laws the way the United States gets to play global cop and claim jurisdiction all over the world. But actually, Venezuela has much more grounds to charge and to extradite U.S. officials by now than the other way around.
Kim Brown: So Joe, this seems like the latest attempt by the United States to undermine and discredit the elected leadership of Venezuela as we’re seeing here with Nicolas Maduro, and then we saw numerous times under the leadership of the late Hugo Chavez. Why is the United States determined to seize control in some way, shape, or form of Venezuela?
Joe Emersberger: Well, what we see thanks to the WikiLeaks revelations, when you look at what U.S. officials are saying in private to each other and their overwhelming concern is especially this idea that the United States wants to play lender of last resort always throughout the Americas. They want to be the country that others rely on, depend on. And if there is an alternative source of financing, an oil rich country that could potentially become an alternative for other countries, that undermines their ability to exert influence in the region. And that’s their overwhelming concern. If you look at the countries that United States has gone after in recent times, Iraq, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, they’re all oil exporting countries, big oil exporting countries, and that oil wealth gives them the potential, mind you, to become regional players in their own right.
Kim Brown: Joe, when I read this story on Thursday, my first thought was, “Oh, this is Manuel Noriega all over again.” For those who don’t remember the 1989 invasion of Panama and the forcible removal of then president Manuel Noriega, he was also brought up on drug trafficking charges in the United States where he did eventually serve some time. The U.S. government, in your opinion, Joe, are they going to attempt … We know they put the $15 million bounty on president Maduro’s head, but is there any chance there could be an invasion of Venezuela in order to extract him?
Joe Emersberger: I think a lot of things are, I think, more likely. One thing that’s important to remember about Panama, like some people have said, it basically came pre-invaded because it already had a U.S. base there, which Venezuela fortunately does not have, so it would be more difficult for that region. But the trends are definitely extremely alarming. As of August of 2017, Trump has repeatedly made military threats and threatened blockades. He’s made it clear to the generals, made it crystal clear, publicly encouraging to rebel, sends the message constantly that if you do something to Maduro, if you overthrow the government, no problem. You’re not going to have any problems from us. We’ll welcome it. So they’ve been sending that message repeatedly.
So could they go to the extreme of actually doing it themselves? I suspect what they’d try first is what this general I talked about earlier has admitted to doing, to try and organize some kind of proxy for a contra force like they used in Nicaragua to attack, but so far that hasn’t got off the ground. But yeah, it’s a horrifying prospect because as they escalate the rhetoric like this, at some point what they call U.S. credibility becomes at stake. The mafia Don can only threaten you so many times, eventually the mafia Don has to follow through or he loses street cred. So that’s kind of how I see the U.S. I see the U.S. as the mafia who eventually might have to establish its street cred by following through on its threats. For now, they’re just threats, but they’re very frightening.
Kim Brown: So the Maduro government in response to this latest action by the U.S. has called this an act of desperation. After all the other attempts have failed, political coups, economic sanctions, Nicolas Maduro still remains in power. However, could this latest move actually deal a blow to a nation that is already politically unstable?
Joe Emersberger: Well, we have these sanctions that Trump introduced in August of 2017. He basically drastically intensified Obama’s sanctions, made them much more punishing, made them much more clearly aimed at the entire economy. So by the end of 2018, a study by Mark Weisbrot and Jeffrey Sachs said that by the end of 2018, they had already possibly been linked to 40,000 deaths. Now since that time, he’s kept increasing the severity of the sanctions. So these are very murderous sanctions. So what’s happened with the coronavirus epidemic, there’s more pressure on them now. I think they’re feeling a bit of pressure in the U.S., this is really murderous. We have this global pandemic and you guys are still punishing countries. And so it seems like the Trump administration’s tactic is just to double down and get even crazier. No, now we’re going to have to try even harder to demonize them to justify these murderous sanctions and these threats. So it seems like their defense has been an offense, just get even crazier with the allegations.
Kim Brown: Are we able to get a sense as to how this news or rather the support on the ground in Venezuela for either Nicolas Maduro or Juan Guaidó? How are the Venezuelan people dealing, obviously, with everything that they have had in terms of the recent challenges in dealing with daily life in the wake of all these sanctions and now with the COVID-19 outbreak, a pandemic obviously affecting their region as well? Whom do the Venezuelan people have trust in and who are they recognizing as their own leader? Are we able to get a sense of that?
Joe Emersberger: Well, the best polls we have, the best indications we have are that Maduro has a very solid base of at least 30% of the population. That’s how many turned out to vote for him in the 2018 presidential election. It also closely resembles what happened in the regional elections, which were done several months earlier. So the Maduro government has a solid base. Guaidó has not shown any capacity to mobilize people, even before the pandemic, of course, closed down mass mobilizations for anybody. But also he himself is linked to drug traffickers. He’s been photographed using a Colombian drug trafficking gang to basically serve as his informal security guards while he was performing an aid stunt back in February of 2019.
So he’s been hit with scandals. He’s failed to do what he said he was going to do, which is overthrow the government. So his credibility is very low, but probably 20, 30% of the public are so against the government that they’ll support anybody, even him. But they both have issues, but I would say Maduro has a solid support. But of course, you have to wonder, being hit so hard with sanctions, how long they can go without suffering a horrendous humanitarian disaster. It’s not even a question of whether he stays in power or not, but how this will play out in terms of the humanitarian consequences of U.S. sanctions. And on top of that, a pandemic, and on top of that, a dramatic fall in oil prices that has taken place since the coronavirus hit. The oil prices have fallen by half, so that’s very serious.
Kim Brown: We’ve been speaking with Joe Emersberger. He is a writer and you can find his work at a variety of places, including FAIR.org, Telesur English, The Canary, and CounterPunch. And we’ve been discussing the U.S. government charging Venezuelan president Nicolas Maduro with drug trafficking. In response, the Maduro government has called this latest act desperate. Joe, we appreciate your time. Thank you so much for speaking with us.
Joe Emersberger: Thank you very much.
Kim Brown: And thank you for watching The Real News Network.
Related
Republish This Story Republish our articles for free, online or in print, under a Creative Commons license.