therealnews--2020-06-24--Popularity of Bail Funds Continue Protests’ Momentum

ATLANTA—On June 1 , police officers had 20-year-old William Lefforge , and about 50 other protesters , boxed in on the sidewalk near Atlanta City Hall .
The officers warned the protesters they had three minutes to leave , but according to Lefforge , the group could not get by the police .
The police arrested them and transported Lefforge and his group to the Atlanta Detention Center .
Lefforge estimated his arrest happened around 4 p.m. , well before the 9 p.m. curfew that Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms has since lifted .
Lefforge called his mother , Jen , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Atlanta Solidarity Fund .
Thanks to the fund , Lefforge walked out of the detention center a little before midnight .
He had only his release papers , which cited “ pedestrian in the roadway ” as his charge .
Organizers were waiting in the parking lot across from the detention center to make sure protesters reached their homes .
On June 4 , Lefforge was at another protest .
As historic protests against police brutality toward Black Americans sweep the United States , social media is littered with calls for donations to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ join the frontlines of protests are giving material support by donating , according to protesters and organizers .
The Atlanta Police Department reported it made 298 arrests in the first weekend of protests alone .
An organizer with the Atlanta Solidarity Fund who asked to be identified only by his first name , Marlon , said protesters have been arrested for curfew violations , disorderly conduct , and even felony incitement to riot .
With a felony charge , judges are more likely to set a higher bail—or deny it entirely .
Keeping @ @ @ @ @ @ @ according to Marlon .
He said , “ Not just in Atlanta , but around the country , police forces are waging a kind of war of attrition .
Eventually people ’ s wallets will run out .
Their safety nets will run out and they ’ ll have no choice but to stop protesting .
When we support bail funds , we make sure [ protesters ] have that backing that they need to stay on the streets as long as they need.
” Even before the protests , bail was a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ UCLA ’ s Million Dollar Hoods research team found that “ the money bail system is a multi-billion dollar toll that demands tens of millions of dollars annually in cash and assets from some of L.A. ’ s most economically vulnerable persons , families , and communities , ” all before anyone has been found guilty .
One factor driving up that total cost is the fact that judges frequently set higher bail for Black and Hispanic defendants than for white defendants with the same charge .
Albert Corado , 31 , is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s City Council in Los Angeles .
Corado said People ’ s City Council emerged after the city government ’ s lack of action in the face of the novel coronavirus ’ spread .
“ There was no rent relief , no tangible plan to help people .
We were frustrated with city council and the mayor ’ s response , ” he said .
So the People ’ s City Council called for rent suspension and commandeering hotels for Los Angeles ’ unhoused population .
It also supported People ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ getting more funding to social services like improved mental health services and public education , instead of funding the police .
People ’ s City Council ’ s demand to defund the police is now being echoed across the US .
City councils are voting to slash police budgets and even heeding protesters ’ calls to defund .
After the police killing of George Floyd , People ’ s City Council ’ s agenda expanded .
Corado and nine other organizers started a GoFundMe to cover legal and medical costs for protesters , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Angeles , and supplies for protest organizers .
The group raised over $ 2 million .
Corado said it is a huge sum of money for a few organizers to make decisions about , but they are committed to channeling the money to supporting protests against police brutality .
Corado also has a personal connection to recent appeals for defunding police .
The LAPD killed Corado ’ s sister , Melyda , in 2018 .
He added , “ Having lost my sister to police violence , it feels amazing .
It ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , the Minnesota Freedom Fund was one of the first bail funds to gain national attention .
The nonprofit raised $ 20 million in only four days but struggled to spend the donations on bail , using only $ 200,000 .
Board member Jared Mollenkof told local media the nonprofit would be undergoing a massive scaling-up and remains committed to ending cash bail .
Sarah Abdel-Motaleb , a law student in Dallas , Texas , donated to her local bail fund as a form of solidarity with the protesters .
Abdel-Motaleb added , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is just a little bit , it ’ s going into a larger fund that will make an impact on people ’ s lives.
” She also brought up the safety concerns of jailing protesters while the coronavirus pandemic is ongoing .
Health experts warn the virus is able to spread quickly in jails .
The Bail Project is a national nonprofit that provides bail assistance to low-income individuals charged with a crime .
The nonprofit has helped release over 11,000 people from pre-trial detention , according to CEO Robin Steinberg .
Steinberg @ @ @ @ @ @ @ injustice , ” citing the disproportionate cost to Black families .
When someone who has not been convicted of a crime is able to await their trail outside of jail , Steinberg said , “ The impact is felt not just by the individual but also allows that person to reconnect to family and employment and their community.
” In light of the protests , The Bail Project started operating a 24-hour assistance line to help arrested protesters and concerned friends and family .
The line has received 300 calls , according to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ makes sense why people have flocked to bail funds as a way to show support for protesters , adding , “ Paying [ someone ’ s ] bail is a way to have an immediate disruptive impact on the way [ the legal ] system operates.
” Ultimately , Steinberg said bail funds are “ not the answer , ” but are a “ powerful tool.
” The Bail Project is dedicated to ending the norm of mass incarceration .
She said , “ The ordinary is that we are ensnaring Black and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ”

ATLANTA—On June 1, police officers had 20-year-old William Lefforge, and about 50 other protesters, boxed in on the sidewalk near Atlanta City Hall. The officers warned the protesters they had three minutes to leave, but according to Lefforge, the group could not get by the police. The police arrested them and transported Lefforge and his group to the Atlanta Detention Center. Lefforge estimated his arrest happened around 4 p.m., well before the 9 p.m. curfew that Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms has since lifted.
Lefforge called his mother, Jen, who in turn reached out to the Atlanta Solidarity Fund. Thanks to the fund, Lefforge walked out of the detention center a little before midnight. He had only his release papers, which cited “pedestrian in the roadway” as his charge. Organizers were waiting in the parking lot across from the detention center to make sure protesters reached their homes. On June 4, Lefforge was at another protest.
As historic protests against police brutality toward Black Americans sweep the United States, social media is littered with calls for donations to local bail funds. Those unable to join the frontlines of protests are giving material support by donating, according to protesters and organizers.
The Atlanta Police Department reported it made 298 arrests in the first weekend of protests alone. An organizer with the Atlanta Solidarity Fund who asked to be identified only by his first name, Marlon, said protesters have been arrested for curfew violations, disorderly conduct, and even felony incitement to riot. With a felony charge, judges are more likely to set a higher bail—or deny it entirely.
Keeping protesters in jail is the point, according to Marlon. He said, “Not just in Atlanta, but around the country, police forces are waging a kind of war of attrition. Eventually people’s wallets will run out. Their safety nets will run out and they’ll have no choice but to stop protesting. When we support bail funds, we make sure [protesters] have that backing that they need to stay on the streets as long as they need.”
Even before the protests, bail was a costly system. A 2017 report from UCLA’s Million Dollar Hoods research team found that “the money bail system is a multi-billion dollar toll that demands tens of millions of dollars annually in cash and assets from some of L.A.’s most economically vulnerable persons, families, and communities,” all before anyone has been found guilty. One factor driving up that total cost is the fact that judges frequently set higher bail for Black and Hispanic defendants than for white defendants with the same charge.
Albert Corado, 31, is an organizer and police abolitionist with People’s City Council in Los Angeles. Corado said People’s City Council emerged after the city government’s lack of action in the face of the novel coronavirus’ spread. “There was no rent relief, no tangible plan to help people. We were frustrated with city council and the mayor’s response,” he said.
So the People’s City Council called for rent suspension and commandeering hotels for Los Angeles’ unhoused population. It also supported People’s Budget LA, which is focused on getting more funding to social services like improved mental health services and public education, instead of funding the police. People’s City Council’s demand to defund the police is now being echoed across the US. City councils are voting to slash police budgets and even heeding protesters’ calls to defund.
After the police killing of George Floyd, People’s City Council’s agenda expanded. Corado and nine other organizers started a GoFundMe to cover legal and medical costs for protesters, direct support to Black Lives Matter Los Angeles, and supplies for protest organizers. The group raised over $2 million. Corado said it is a huge sum of money for a few organizers to make decisions about, but they are committed to channeling the money to supporting protests against police brutality.
Corado also has a personal connection to recent appeals for defunding police. The LAPD killed Corado’s sister, Melyda, in 2018. He added, “Having lost my sister to police violence, it feels amazing. It’s a big fuck you.”
Similarly, the Minnesota Freedom Fund was one of the first bail funds to gain national attention. The nonprofit raised $20 million in only four days but struggled to spend the donations on bail, using only $200,000. Board member Jared Mollenkof told local media the nonprofit would be undergoing a massive scaling-up and remains committed to ending cash bail.
Sarah Abdel-Motaleb, a law student in Dallas, Texas, donated to her local bail fund as a form of solidarity with the protesters. Abdel-Motaleb added, “Even if [a donation] is just a little bit, it’s going into a larger fund that will make an impact on people’s lives.”
She also brought up the safety concerns of jailing protesters while the coronavirus pandemic is ongoing. Health experts warn the virus is able to spread quickly in jails.
The Bail Project is a national nonprofit that provides bail assistance to low-income individuals charged with a crime. The nonprofit has helped release over 11,000 people from pre-trial detention, according to CEO Robin Steinberg.
Steinberg called cash bail “a driver of injustice,” citing the disproportionate cost to Black families. When someone who has not been convicted of a crime is able to await their trail outside of jail, Steinberg said, “The impact is felt not just by the individual but also allows that person to reconnect to family and employment and their community.”
In light of the protests, The Bail Project started operating a 24-hour assistance line to help arrested protesters and concerned friends and family. The line has received 300 calls, according to The Bail Project.
She said it makes sense why people have flocked to bail funds as a way to show support for protesters, adding, “Paying [someone’s] bail is a way to have an immediate disruptive impact on the way [the legal] system operates.”
Ultimately, Steinberg said bail funds are “not the answer,” but are a “powerful tool.” The Bail Project is dedicated to ending the norm of mass incarceration. She said, “The ordinary is that we are ensnaring Black and Brown people in our legal system.”
Related
Republish This Story Republish our articles for free, online or in print, under a Creative Commons license.


therealnews--2020-06-24--Say Her Name: On Average, Police Kill One Black Woman A Month

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Eddie Conway : Welcome to The Real News .
I ’ m Eddie Conway , your host coming to you from Baltimore .
We have been witnessing worldwide protests , strikes , demonstrations , destruction of monuments .
When you look in the crowds you see men , women , children , white , black , brown , yellow , red , etc .
And you hear more often than not a lot of names being shouted , or posters being bannered with Eric Garner @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s name , Tyrone West ’ s name , Mike Brown .
And of course we know all of this started with the killing of George Floyd .
But what ’ s missing in this whole scenario , and not getting a lot of publicity is the name of women .
Now of course we are Breonna Taylor ’ s name , because that ’ s an incident that ’ s closely associated with this whole thing .
And some of us are aware of Sandra Bland , some of us are aware @ @ @ @ @ @ @ But in looking back at our history , of course we could go back all the way to slavery , but in looking back in our history , we can see names like Fannie Lou Hamer ’ s , being beaten by police , that affected her for the rest of her life .
We see a case that I looked at in particular , was a case in Tyler , Texas in which an 84 year old … 82 year old grandmother was sleeping in her bed , police mistaking her house @ @ @ @ @ @ @ house , charged upstairs and shot her six times in her bed .
And walked away from the whole thing .
The Grand Jury in Tyler , Texas found that it was an accident , the black community was outraged , they decided to do jury nullification .
They in turn decided that they wasn ’ t going to convict any black person that didn ’ t do harm to the black community .
And that was in ’ 92 .
So young women , as young as seven , has been murdered @ @ @ @ @ @ @ women as old as 92 has been murdered in their houses by police .
And so I wonder why we don ’ t hear more voices in these protests about the women that has been murdered by police .
This is not a black male thing , this is a people of color thing at this present time .
So joining me today to talk about this a little bit is Dominique Conway , who is also my wife , writer , activist , organizer , educator .
Also joining me is Professor @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , Dominique and Talitha .
Talitha LeFlour… : Thank you for having me .
Dominique Conwa… : Thank you for having me .
Eddie Conway : Okay , my first question goes to you , Talitha .
Over the years it seems that the police have killed one black woman a month .
On average , which means sometimes there was two and then sometimes there might have been a month and a week passed by .
But , why don ’ t we hear black women ’ s name ?
Why is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ shouting out and what ’ s really happening in our lives ?
Talitha LeFlour… : Thank you , Eddie , that ’ s a … a wonderful question .
And a question that I ’ ve thought a lot about .
Because as we know , the silence is deafening , right ?
And the level of outrage that we see shown toward the killing of black men and boys is just not shown when it comes to black women and girls .
And I thought really hard and very long about this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that I have the answer , but one thing that I will say is that I believe that the numbers game has something to do with this .
The fact that black women are killed in seemingly negligible numbers when compared with black men .
So those staggering statistics that you shared , if one black woman is killed a month , then that means probably 10 black men are killed a month , right ?
And so unfortunately people minimize the murder of black women and girls , because their numbers don @ @ @ @ @ @ @ But when you compare those numbers with the white women who are not being killed by the police , then that changes things .
That helps us to see this in a different light , right ?
And so I ’ m not one who supports of promotes comparative suffering , and I believe that we need to move away from this narrative that somehow well , the numbers of black men that are being murdered are so much more , that we have to address that issue first , and then we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ No , all black lives need to matter equally , including the lives of black women .
And Kimberle Crenshaw recently said something that was so eloquent , and I want to share it because I think that it applies to what I ’ m saying now .
She said that if your story doesn ’ t exist within a movement , that story isn ’ t entirely for you .
And so we have to lift up the stories of black women and girls , and we have to convey the message @ @ @ @ @ @ @ all black lives matter .
Because if we don ’ t do it , if we show indifference toward the killing of black women and girls as a result of vigilante violence and state sanctioned anti-black violence , then if the black community doesn ’ t show outrage , then why should the rest of the world show outrage ?
Eddie Conway : Okay , Dominique , the same question , why you think this silence around the death of black women at the hands of vigilantes , of police correctional officers , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ also killed in prisons .
Dominique ?
Dominique Conwa… : Yeah , I pretty much agree with what Talitha has said .
I also do think it ’ s a difficult question because there are so many complexities .
I think history , the devaluation of black women and the black female body , the black body in general , but particularly the black female body lends easily to that .
So I think it ’ s very complex .
I feel that white supremacy has set up a system in which there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ within struggles we reinforce that hierarchy , and I think we have to undo our thinking about how we view people within our own groups .
And so I think that that ’ s part of the difficulty of really answering the question .
And I also don ’ t want to get into reinforcing a hierarchy and saying that well , it ’ s more important that we view the deaths of black women versus black men .
No , we need to look at all of this because it ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s not just black women , it ’ s our children , too .
We ’ re pretty much all in the scopes of the rifle , and I think we need to view this as a war .
And war takes everybody out .
Eddie Conway : Well Talitha , and I heard you say that it ’ s our story , we need to raise these stories up .
What ’ s the role of black men in this , and what ’ s the role of black women ?
Because @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the line also , talking about Trayvon Martin , and supporting protests around Eric Garner .
And most of the time , and to be quite honest , most of the movements that I have witnessed throughout history and studied throughout history are actually led by women , and they are actually supported and pushed forward by women .
And women has , from the time we got on the boats apparently , has been protesting , fighting , pushing , and in fact keeping us alive to fight the next day .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ , the story of black women ’ s deaths also , whose responsibility is that ?
Talitha LeFlour… : In response to your question , Eddie , about whose responsibility is , I think that it ’ s our collective responsibility to lift up the stories of black women and girls who have been killed by the police , or who have died at the hands of vigilantes .
As Dominique said , white supremacist violence is indiscriminate .
And so … but one of the things that I want to say is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ been doing a lot of this work .
Black women have essentially been carrying the labor , they ’ re the ones who are showing up at the protests and who are committed to the defense of black women .
So when black men show up , even though unfortunately black men haven ’ t shown up at the same level that black women have , when black men show up for black women in these spaces and for black girls , what it says is that our lives are worthy of protection @ @ @ @ @ @ @ saving .
As Dominique mentioned before , historically black women have not been afforded the same protections as white women .
Black women and girls , their lives haven ’ t been seen as worthy of the same protection .
The dehumanization that slavery … the types of dehumanization that black women and girls and black people experienced during slavery , I think is part of the reason why we see this complete disregard for black life , and it ’ s part of the reason why black people can be killed with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ set that precedent that our lives did not matter .
And so when a black woman is killed , or harmed , or injured , or when a black man is killed , or harmed , or injured , we ’ re all hurt .
Eddie Conway : Okay , Dominique , I ’ ve heard you say thousands of times that black men has a certain responsibility to speak up to other black men around this issue .
Talk a little bit about that protest of Black Lives Matter activist , a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ after a rally she disappeared .
Could you talk a little bit about the safe space , or the lack of safe space , and what ’ s the role of men in all of this ?
Dominique Conwa… : Yeah , I feel like I don ’ t know enough about her particular situation to really speak to it .
I ’ ve gleaned a few bits of information .
So I don ’ t want to like go into that because I don ’ t … I just don ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ knowing enough about it .
But I think in general … I mean , as a black woman it ’ s very difficult to feel safe in the belly of the beast .
History has told me enough to know that I ’ m not safe , my children are not safe .
When I have grandchildren , they will probably be … not be safe until this whole paradigm here is changed .
But I do feel that it ’ s not just necessary for men to kind of take responsibility and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ well , I feel like men need to be conscious of how they take up space when it comes to speaking to these issues a lot of times .
My experience here in Baltimore and what I saw in 2015 was men taking up a lot of the talking space .
But out on the streets I saw mothers , I saw grandmothers , I saw little girls .
But when you looked at the interviews , what was reflected back very often were men who were not necessarily doing the organizing .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ to be conscious about taking up that space .
Just like we tell white folks they need to be conscious about taking up our space , we need to look at who ’ s really being afforded ample room within our spaces .
Eddie Conway : Okay , and I [ inaudible 00:14:06 ] one of the questions I was going to ask , and I realize that it ’ s probably not necessarily a valid question , considering that a lot of these cases that I ’ ve looked at of black @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the spaces in their houses .
They ’ ve been in their bedrooms , they ’ ve been in their living rooms , they ’ ve been away from videos and so on .
So the video footage is not there , but I ’ m wondering about the 17 year old young lady that videoed George Floyd ’ s case , now I understand she ’ s receiving death threats , and she ’ s got to be hidden and protected .
What should we be doing about stuff like that ?
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ on that ?
Talitha LeFlour… : Wow , that ’ s a tough question to answer .
I believe that we all have to obviously rally behind her , and support her , and support anybody who is a victim of white racial terror , even if it doesn ’ t result in death .
Our community is being tremendously impacted , our public health … I mean , excuse me , our mental health is being affected .
Racism is a public health issue .
It ’ s a public health crisis @ @ @ @ @ @ @ need to get around her and support her and lift her up , but we also need to hold the people who like , for example , people who provide mental health services , and social services , hold our local governments , our state governments , and any entity that could provide these kinds of resources in lieu of hiring additional police officers .
Part of the defunding of the police could involve channeling more resources into public health .
Yeah , public health and mental health services for people in our @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I understand now is extremely agoraphobic and can ’ t even leave her house at this point because she ’ s afraid that she ’ s going to lose her life or that she ’ s going to be bullied or terrorized .
People kill themselves when they are harassed and when they are terrorized in this way .
So I just pray for her mental health and that she ’ ll be able to get the kind of healing and the attention that she deserves on an individual level , but we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ around her and other people who are brave enough to film these murders , and who are brave enough to speak out against these atrocities .
I think about Ida B .
Wells .
That young woman is the Ida B .
Wells of our generation .
She documented that horror , she documented that lynching , right ?
And so we have to get behind our brothers and sisters who are willing to document and put everything on the line , including their lives and their safety on the line to document @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and I guess this is like the final question , I would like for you to give us an idea of what should happen .
I mean , we talk about defunding the police , some people talk about disbanding the police .
Is that the real problem , or is the problem deeper than that , or what you think should happen to kind of like … the outcome of all this worldwide protests ?
Dominique Conwa… : One , I do feel that it ’ s necessary to abolish police @ @ @ @ @ @ @ police as simply being the armed wing of a government that is at war with us and has been at best indifferent to our suffering , but a lot worse than indifferent .
When you consider black Wall Street , and consider what happened in Tulsa , when you consider the attacks upon people of African descent , our communities as well as what is done to indigenous communities in this land .
So I think yeah , it ’ s very necessary to abolish the police , but I think we also @ @ @ @ @ @ @ need to determine our own destinies , and I hope that doesn ’ t sound too cliché at this point , but it ’ s true .
And part of that is determining who ’ s going to really protect the communities .
I feel like if we were in that kind of position , there wouldn ’ t be no question about protection for this young woman .
As you all were talking about that situation I ’ m thinking we need a Deacons for Defense , we need some folks that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ house armed and assuring her safety .
Or whatever she feels would assure her safety , because that might not be it for her .
And so it is a matter of giving voice to everybody in the community to determine what their destiny is going to be , and what makes them feel comfortable .
So I think that it ’ s very hard for me to say what needs to come out of this , because so much needs to come out of this , it ’ s been 500 years @ @ @ @ @ @ @ enough time for me to even go through the long list of things .
But I think more important is that this is a young person ’ s game at this point .
It ’ s their future , they need to be able to determine how they ’ re going to live that future , how they ’ re going into that future , and if there even is going to be a future .
Eddie Conway : Okay , Talitha , you get the final word .
Do you have any @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
Talitha LeFlour… : So I just want to first of all thank you , Dominique , for your final word , and I agree with you wholeheartedly .
I want to say that it is critical and it is paramount that we say the names of black women and girls .
That we do not perpetuate or continue to perpetuate the invisibility that black women and girls face when it comes to these issues around police violence , and police brutality , and police terror .
Black women and girls should not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at the center of these stories , at the center of our public discourse around police violence and anti-black violence .
And it ’ s our responsibility to make sure that all black lives matter .
So whenever we can , we need to lift up the voices and the stories of black women , and join activists , local activists , nationally recognized activists who have really large platforms to speak out on these issues , including the African American Policy Forum .
I would encourage you to contribute to and to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And to plug into the work that Kimberle Crenshaw and the African American Policy Forum and people who are committed to this work , and amplifying these stories all over the country are doing .
And so that would be my final word .
Eddie Conway : All right , thank you .
There ’ s a rally today , in fact , to support Say Her Name .
So thank you for joining me Talitha and Dominique .
Eddie Conway : Okay , and thank you for joining this episode of The @ @ @

Historically, Black women like Fannie Lou Hamer, Atatiana Jefferson, Breonna Taylor, Korryn Gaines, and Eleanor Bumpers, who were killed or brutalized by police officers, receive less community outrage and media coverage than their male counterparts.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Eddie Conway: Welcome to The Real News. I’m Eddie Conway, your host coming to you from Baltimore. We have been witnessing worldwide protests, strikes, demonstrations, destruction of monuments. When you look in the crowds you see men, women, children, white, black, brown, yellow, red, etc. And you hear more often than not a lot of names being shouted, or posters being bannered with Eric Garner’s name. Trayvon Martin’s name, Tyrone West’s name, Mike Brown. And of course we know all of this started with the killing of George Floyd. But what’s missing in this whole scenario, and not getting a lot of publicity is the name of women. Now of course we are Breonna Taylor’s name, because that’s an incident that’s closely associated with this whole thing. And some of us are aware of Sandra Bland, some of us are aware of other names of other women.
But in looking back at our history, of course we could go back all the way to slavery, but in looking back in our history, we can see names like Fannie Lou Hamer’s, being beaten by police, that affected her for the rest of her life. We see a case that I looked at in particular, was a case in Tyler, Texas in which an 84 year old … 82 year old grandmother was sleeping in her bed, police mistaking her house for a place to raid raided her house, charged upstairs and shot her six times in her bed. And walked away from the whole thing. The Grand Jury in Tyler, Texas found that it was an accident, the black community was outraged, they decided to do jury nullification. They in turn decided that they wasn’t going to convict any black person that didn’t do harm to the black community. And that was in ’92.
So young women, as young as seven, has been murdered in their beds by police. And women as old as 92 has been murdered in their houses by police. And so I wonder why we don’t hear more voices in these protests about the women that has been murdered by police.
This is not a black male thing, this is a people of color thing at this present time. So joining me today to talk about this a little bit is Dominique Conway, who is also my wife, writer, activist, organizer, educator. Also joining me is Professor Talitha LeFlouria. Thanks for joining me, Dominique and Talitha.
Talitha LeFlour…: Thank you for having me.
Dominique Conwa…: Thank you for having me.
Eddie Conway: Okay, my first question goes to you, Talitha. Over the years it seems that the police have killed one black woman a month. On average, which means sometimes there was two and then sometimes there might have been a month and a week passed by. But, why don’t we hear black women’s name? Why is this disparity between what the protestors are shouting out and what’s really happening in our lives?
Talitha LeFlour…: Thank you, Eddie, that’s a … a wonderful question. And a question that I’ve thought a lot about. Because as we know, the silence is deafening, right? And the level of outrage that we see shown toward the killing of black men and boys is just not shown when it comes to black women and girls. And I thought really hard and very long about this, and I can’t say that I have the answer, but one thing that I will say is that I believe that the numbers game has something to do with this. The fact that black women are killed in seemingly negligible numbers when compared with black men. So those staggering statistics that you shared, if one black woman is killed a month, then that means probably 10 black men are killed a month, right?
And so unfortunately people minimize the murder of black women and girls, because their numbers don’t compare with black men. But when you compare those numbers with the white women who are not being killed by the police, then that changes things. That helps us to see this in a different light, right? And so I’m not one who supports of promotes comparative suffering, and I believe that we need to move away from this narrative that somehow well, the numbers of black men that are being murdered are so much more, that we have to address that issue first, and then we can get to the black men. No, all black lives need to matter equally, including the lives of black women. And Kimberle Crenshaw recently said something that was so eloquent, and I want to share it because I think that it applies to what I’m saying now. She said that if your story doesn’t exist within a movement, that story isn’t entirely for you.
And so we have to lift up the stories of black women and girls, and we have to convey the message to the rest of the world that all black lives matter. Because if we don’t do it, if we show indifference toward the killing of black women and girls as a result of vigilante violence and state sanctioned anti-black violence, then if the black community doesn’t show outrage, then why should the rest of the world show outrage?
Eddie Conway: Okay, Dominique, the same question, why you think this silence around the death of black women at the hands of vigilantes, of police correctional officers, because a lot of black women are also killed in prisons. Dominique?
Dominique Conwa…: Yeah, I pretty much agree with what Talitha has said. I also do think it’s a difficult question because there are so many complexities. I think history, the devaluation of black women and the black female body, the black body in general, but particularly the black female body lends easily to that. So I think it’s very complex. I feel that white supremacy has set up a system in which there is a hierarchy. And even sometimes within struggles we reinforce that hierarchy, and I think we have to undo our thinking about how we view people within our own groups. And so I think that that’s part of the difficulty of really answering the question.
And I also don’t want to get into reinforcing a hierarchy and saying that well, it’s more important that we view the deaths of black women versus black men. No, we need to look at all of this because it’s not just black men, it’s not just black women, it’s our children, too. We’re pretty much all in the scopes of the rifle, and I think we need to view this as a war. And war takes everybody out.
Eddie Conway: Well Talitha, and I heard you say that it’s our story, we need to raise these stories up. What’s the role of black men in this, and what’s the role of black women? Because I see black women out there on the line also, talking about Trayvon Martin, and supporting protests around Eric Garner. And most of the time, and to be quite honest, most of the movements that I have witnessed throughout history and studied throughout history are actually led by women, and they are actually supported and pushed forward by women. And women has, from the time we got on the boats apparently, has been protesting, fighting, pushing, and in fact keeping us alive to fight the next day. But whose responsibility for bringing our story, the story of black women’s deaths also, whose responsibility is that?
Talitha LeFlour…: In response to your question, Eddie, about whose responsibility is, I think that it’s our collective responsibility to lift up the stories of black women and girls who have been killed by the police, or who have died at the hands of vigilantes. As Dominique said, white supremacist violence is indiscriminate. And so … but one of the things that I want to say is that as you mentioned black women have been doing a lot of this work. Black women have essentially been carrying the labor, they’re the ones who are showing up at the protests and who are committed to the defense of black women.
So when black men show up, even though unfortunately black men haven’t shown up at the same level that black women have, when black men show up for black women in these spaces and for black girls, what it says is that our lives are worthy of protection. That our lives are worthy of saving. As Dominique mentioned before, historically black women have not been afforded the same protections as white women.
Black women and girls, their lives haven’t been seen as worthy of the same protection. The dehumanization that slavery … the types of dehumanization that black women and girls and black people experienced during slavery, I think is part of the reason why we see this complete disregard for black life, and it’s part of the reason why black people can be killed with impunity. It’s because slavery set that precedent that our lives did not matter.
And so when a black woman is killed, or harmed, or injured, or when a black man is killed, or harmed, or injured, we’re all hurt.
Eddie Conway: Okay, Dominique, I’ve heard you say thousands of times that black men has a certain responsibility to speak up to other black men around this issue. Talk a little bit about that protest of Black Lives Matter activist, a young lady that reported a rape and after a rally she disappeared. Could you talk a little bit about the safe space, or the lack of safe space, and what’s the role of men in all of this?
Dominique Conwa…: Yeah, I feel like I don’t know enough about her particular situation to really speak to it. I’ve gleaned a few bits of information. So I don’t want to like go into that because I don’t … I just don’t feel comfortable speaking about her situation not knowing enough about it.
But I think in general … I mean, as a black woman it’s very difficult to feel safe in the belly of the beast. History has told me enough to know that I’m not safe, my children are not safe. When I have grandchildren, they will probably be … not be safe until this whole paradigm here is changed. But I do feel that it’s not just necessary for men to kind of take responsibility and acknowledge the deaths of these women as well, I feel like men need to be conscious of how they take up space when it comes to speaking to these issues a lot of times. My experience here in Baltimore and what I saw in 2015 was men taking up a lot of the talking space. But out on the streets I saw mothers, I saw grandmothers, I saw little girls. But when you looked at the interviews, what was reflected back very often were men who were not necessarily doing the organizing. And so I feel like brothers need to be conscious about taking up that space. Just like we tell white folks they need to be conscious about taking up our space, we need to look at who’s really being afforded ample room within our spaces.
Eddie Conway: Okay, and I [inaudible 00:14:06] one of the questions I was going to ask, and I realize that it’s probably not necessarily a valid question, considering that a lot of these cases that I’ve looked at of black women being killed, has happened in the spaces in their houses. They’ve been in their bedrooms, they’ve been in their living rooms, they’ve been away from videos and so on. So the video footage is not there, but I’m wondering about the 17 year old young lady that videoed George Floyd’s case, now I understand she’s receiving death threats, and she’s got to be hidden and protected. What should we be doing about stuff like that? Talitha, do you have any opinion on that?
Talitha LeFlour…: Wow, that’s a tough question to answer. I believe that we all have to obviously rally behind her, and support her, and support anybody who is a victim of white racial terror, even if it doesn’t result in death. Our community is being tremendously impacted, our public health … I mean, excuse me, our mental health is being affected. Racism is a public health issue. It’s a public health crisis. And so we as a community need to get around her and support her and lift her up, but we also need to hold the people who like, for example, people who provide mental health services, and social services, hold our local governments, our state governments, and any entity that could provide these kinds of resources in lieu of hiring additional police officers.
Part of the defunding of the police could involve channeling more resources into public health. Yeah, public health and mental health services for people in our community, including that young woman who I understand now is extremely agoraphobic and can’t even leave her house at this point because she’s afraid that she’s going to lose her life or that she’s going to be bullied or terrorized. People kill themselves when they are harassed and when they are terrorized in this way. So I just pray for her mental health and that she’ll be able to get the kind of healing and the attention that she deserves on an individual level, but we as a community need to also champion around her and other people who are brave enough to film these murders, and who are brave enough to speak out against these atrocities.
I think about Ida B. Wells. That young woman is the Ida B. Wells of our generation. She documented that horror, she documented that lynching, right? And so we have to get behind our brothers and sisters who are willing to document and put everything on the line, including their lives and their safety on the line to document these lynchings.
Eddie Conway: Dominique, and I guess this is like the final question, I would like for you to give us an idea of what should happen. I mean, we talk about defunding the police, some people talk about disbanding the police. Is that the real problem, or is the problem deeper than that, or what you think should happen to kind of like … the outcome of all this worldwide protests?
Dominique Conwa…: One, I do feel that it’s necessary to abolish police forces, but also I see the police as simply being the armed wing of a government that is at war with us and has been at best indifferent to our suffering, but a lot worse than indifferent. When you consider black Wall Street, and consider what happened in Tulsa, when you consider the attacks upon people of African descent, our communities as well as what is done to indigenous communities in this land. So I think yeah, it’s very necessary to abolish the police, but I think we also need to begin to determine … we need to determine our own destinies, and I hope that doesn’t sound too cliché at this point, but it’s true. And part of that is determining who’s going to really protect the communities. I feel like if we were in that kind of position, there wouldn’t be no question about protection for this young woman. As you all were talking about that situation I’m thinking we need a Deacons for Defense, we need some folks that’s going to stand outside that house armed and assuring her safety. Or whatever she feels would assure her safety, because that might not be it for her.
And so it is a matter of giving voice to everybody in the community to determine what their destiny is going to be, and what makes them feel comfortable. So I think that it’s very hard for me to say what needs to come out of this, because so much needs to come out of this, it’s been 500 years, okay? I think we have enough time for me to even go through the long list of things. But I think more important is that this is a young person’s game at this point. It’s their future, they need to be able to determine how they’re going to live that future, how they’re going into that future, and if there even is going to be a future.
Eddie Conway: Okay, Talitha, you get the final word. Do you have any final comment to share with our audience?
Talitha LeFlour…: So I just want to first of all thank you, Dominique, for your final word, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I want to say that it is critical and it is paramount that we say the names of black women and girls. That we do not perpetuate or continue to perpetuate the invisibility that black women and girls face when it comes to these issues around police violence, and police brutality, and police terror. Black women and girls should not be a footnote, they should be at the center of these stories, at the center of our public discourse around police violence and anti-black violence. And it’s our responsibility to make sure that all black lives matter.
So whenever we can, we need to lift up the voices and the stories of black women, and join activists, local activists, nationally recognized activists who have really large platforms to speak out on these issues, including the African American Policy Forum. I would encourage you to contribute to and to support the Say Her Name movement. And to plug into the work that Kimberle Crenshaw and the African American Policy Forum and people who are committed to this work, and amplifying these stories all over the country are doing. And so that would be my final word.
Eddie Conway: All right, thank you. There’s a rally today, in fact, to support Say Her Name. So thank you for joining me Talitha and Dominique.
Talitha LeFlour…: Thank you.
Dominique Conwa…: Thank you.
Eddie Conway: Okay, and thank you for joining this episode of The Real News.
Studio: Cameron Granadino
Production: Cameron Granadino, Ericka Blount Danois
Related
Republish This Story Republish our articles for free, online or in print, under a Creative Commons license.


therealnews--2020-06-25--Why You Should Give a F*ck | Ep. 3 | Labor Rights

All donations in the US and Canada are tax deductible .
To make a secure donation by credit or debit @ @ @ @ @ location , or select PayPal .

Studio Technician (former)
Coming from a background in video production and filmmaking, Tunde Ogunfolaju was a studio tech for TRNN from 2018-2020. He operated, monitored, and adjusted audio, video, lighting, and broadcast equipment for the purposes of handling day-to-day production of in-studio, remote and live streamed interviews involving current political news for TRNN. He is a Baltimore native and great enthusiast of 90’s R&B as well as old school wrestling.


therealnews--2020-06-25--Stir Crazy! Episode #59: Time Has Come To Rage

Close window X
We encourage republication of our original content. Please copy the HTML code in the textbox below, preserving the attribution and link to the article's original location, and only make minor cosmetic edits to the content on your site.


therealnews--2020-06-25--Boycotting Israel Is Not A Crime, Says European Human Rights Court

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Mark Steiner : Welcome to the Real News .
I ’ m Mark Steiner .
Great to have you over with us once again .
On Thursday , June the 11th , the European Human Rights Court in Strasbourg , France reversed the conviction of 12 BDS activists , and ordered them compensation from France , saying they were wrongfully charged , quote , “ with incitement to discrimination ” because of their BDS activism .
Now , as a reminder , BDS is the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ against Israel .
It ’ s a grassroots movement with millions of supporters throughout the world to end the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land .
The Israeli government has been pressuring governments to ban BDS and outlaw them as racist and antisemitic , despite the reality , that BDS stands against racism and apartheid and is committed to nonviolent protest , working within the boundaries of human rights and international law .
Here in the United States , 23 states have passed anti-BDS legislation .
The significance of the ruling of the European @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to all member nations of the European Union .
Now , while Palestinian and other solidarity groups and others celebrate the court ’ s decision , it ’ s unclear whether the French government will file an appeal and what that means .
To wrestle with the significance of all of this , we ’ re joined once again by Sonia Feynman , who is a French activist .
She ’ s been active in the progressive grassroots movements since 1968 against the occupation .
She ’ s a member of the organization @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and is also with the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network .
Sonia , welcome back ; good to have you with us here on the Real News again .
So Sonia , let me start with this case itself .
I mean , the 12 people convicted and now acquitted were charged the crime of distributing BDS flyers in front of shopping centers , and there were thousands of people in France who were doing this all over the place .
What ’ s interesting is , BDS is made up of Jews @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people here who were brought to trial from France were Muslim or had Muslim names at the very least .
So is it just a coincidence ?
Is something afoot here ?
I ’ m just curious about what you think about that .
Sonia Feynman : Well , I ’ m not sure they were the majority of the group .
There were several of them who were Muslims .
Most of them , French , but two of them non French .
Well , it ’ s clear that Arabs and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ favor of Palestine and of the Palestinian rights .
So it ’ s not surprising that in the BDS movement , there are so many Muslim people .
But at the same time , there are also all other sorts of people and in particular , Jews , like me .
Mark Steiner : And like me .
So this pushes a bit further .
I mean , the French courts and parts of French government have really been pushing a very strong pro Israeli line .
I mean , this decision , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in that it talks about everybody who ’ s a member of the European union .
So in this [ inaudible 00:03:18 ] , first , the French courts fined the activists significantly .
Then the European courts decided , no .
Now we ’ re going to find France to reimburse and pay the people who were convicted .
So , I mean , so despite the back and forth legally , what is really at the significance of the heart of this , do you think ?
Sonia Feynman : First @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is the resilience of these 12 people who acted in front of justice for years , because they started in 2009 and they had two series of actions , in 2009 and 2010 , and then all these trials and appeals and so on .
The court of [ foreign language 00:04:02 ] in France finally in 2015 , confirmed the appeal and condemned them .
So that ’ s a very important fact .
Now we are all very pleased that they are released and that the European court gave them a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it ’ s important to see that the European Court of Justice [ inaudible 00:04:34 ] this law for freedom of press , which dates back to 1881 in France , at least two specific articles , seven , and 10 .
After examining the whole affair , they decided that it was not a question of hatred , as the French government was saying , hatred and discrimination and racism against Israel and the Jews .
No , it was a question of political expression , political freedom , and freedom of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at a time when France is keeping this habit of pursuing .
They have been not been convicted as the [ foreign language 00:05:26 ] wants .
So it ’ s important in France .
It ’ s important in Germany too , because the German government is very hard against [ foreign language 00:05:38 ] .
Mark Steiner : So I want to pick up on that point .
I mean , the difficulty here , so ways historically around the BDS movement , especially in Europe , and the United States @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , where the sensibilities and the sensitivities run deep on both fronts .
I mean , Europe was the home of the Holocaust .
Still clearly Germany is really always bending over backwards to say , “ No , we ’ re not antisemitic , and we ’ re not going to allow antisemitism.
” It spreads like Europe like that , and then you have the split inside the Jewish world as well in Europe and across the world , over what Israel is doing .
So it ’ s sometimes a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ because of all of the kind of historical realities that we all face from the Holocaust of the occupation in this giant arc .
So talk about that in terms of , in light of this decision and where do you think this takes this conversation in terms of really kind of getting underneath the pain that exists for many people in this .
Sonia Feynman : I don ’ t see exactly what you mentioned with your last words .
Mark Steiner : Pain ?
I mean the emotional pain that goes @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : But whose emotional pain are you talking about ?
Mark Steiner : I guess I ’ m talking about everybody ’ s emotional pain .
Because it ’ s how you bridge that in saying that the occupation was in , BDS is not antisemitic , and how difficult it is to kind of bridge that conversation .
Sonia Feynman : Yeah .
Well , I think in our organization , UCFB , we think that this whole affair of antisemitism , reproaching antisemitism to BDS people and to organizations that are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Well , I don ’ t find the word , but it ’ s important because , well , it ’ s a way Israel has found in order to smear people criticizing Israel .
So they kind of invented this thing of antisemitism .
So of course there is emotional pain , as you say , on both sides , but mainly it ’ s important to show that Israel is not representing all Jews in the world , and that Israel has been keeping this Holocaust memory in order to invade @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
So that ’ s very emotional , but we have to think politically more than emotional .
Mark Steiner : Yeah , Glenn Greenwald , who is also Jewish , wrote an article on the Intercept , called the greatest threat to free speech in the West is criticizing activism against the Israeli occupation .
So you have this world now where far right wing leaders in the West have taken on really serious pro Israeli views .
At the same time , they ’ re trying to crush democratic in their @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the country that we ’ re broadcasting from , Trump is at the pinnacle of this in many ways .
So , I mean , do you think that the court ’ s decision can change something for Palestinians ?
Can a protected free speech in Europe in general , will do anything to change the dynamic of the battle and the conversation ?
Sonia Feynman : Yes .
I think what it can change mostly is a recognition of the nonviolent character of BDS and the character of powerful way of showing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Israel .
So that ’ s a first fact .
Also what ’ s important is to realize that Palestinians themselves are very resilient and are resisting for all this time .
So , well , I think this ruling of the court can show the world that freedom of expression has to be respected .
In that case , in the case of BDS , it significant pace to help people doing BDS and acting as BDS in the BDS campaign , to show them and to show the word that they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ justified , and that it ’ s a battle for justice and for the respect of international law .
So- [ crosstalk 00:10:34 ] Sonia Feynman : Despite all the efforts Israel is making to smear academics , especially in the United States , because they are very , very active , some of them , in supporting BDS and Palestinians .
So this minister of strategical affairs , which has been created in Israeli especially to , I would say , smear people , BDS activists , as well as academics all @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they ’ re making , and the big investment , they ’ re investing huge amounts of money .
Despite all this , BDS is going on .
Well , you mentioned at the beginning that several states in the United States have been declaring unlawful BDS , and that ’ s a pity .
France has been trying to do that , but now they know they can ’ t , and it ’ s giving us strength to go on with boycott , divestment , and sanctions .
Mark Steiner : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , A , do you think that France will appeal and what that might mean ?
B , I ’ m just very curious , did you expect this to happen ?
When it did happen , what is it like for all of you in the movement in Europe , and France especially ?
Sonia Feynman : Well , I don ’ t think France will go to appeal , but , well , I ’ m not sure .
But I don ’ t think because now they ’ ve been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the French government is very close to Israel , I think they are conscious , and there is a crisis in France too , with COVID and these urgent state depriving , people of kind of liberties .
Now with the deconfinement , there are very many demonstrations , not only in support of George Floyd and against police violence in the United States and in France , because we have the same problem .
There are also people in the health sector and many things happening against the government claiming having [ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the government is kind of worried about so many things that I don ’ t think they will go to appeal this decision .
Let ’ s see .
Among the Jewish communities , well , it varies because organized associations like ours exist also in other European countries .
We have a grouping , a federation of groups which is called EJJP , European Jews for a Just Peace , which has been declaring also that the ruling was very good .
Also there is a group of Palestine committee solidarities in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
So it ’ s called ECCP , European Coordination of Committees for Palestine .
Also , they are very pleased with the ruling and every group is expressing its satisfaction about what ’ s decided in the European court .
But at the same time in Germany , in Britain , in France , there are these mainstream organizations , like the one which is called [ FIEF 00:14:16 ] in France , which is a so-called council representing Jewish organization in France , which is a real ally of Israel .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s like the voice of Israel in France .
They reacted saying that it was too bad , but not very violently .
So that ’ s also a reason why I can ’ t think , because at the same time , they ’ re close to the French government .
So it ’ s another reason that makes me think that maybe there won ’ t be an appeal on the part of the French government .
But I ’ m convinced , and Israel has showed it already , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ continue harassing us and trying to prevent actions of the BDS and this divestment and so on .
Mark Steiner : Well , Sonia , A , let me just first thank you for all the work you do in this arena , and thank you once again for joining us here on the Real News Network .
I look forward to talking to you again very soon .
Sonia Feynman : Okay .
Thank you .
Mark Steiner : Thank you so much .
I ’ m Mark Steiner here for the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ glad you could join us , please let us know what you think and take care .

The EHRC overturned the French court’s convictions of 12 BDS activists for “incitement to discrimination” in a watershed ruling for the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Mark Steiner: Welcome to the Real News. I’m Mark Steiner. Great to have you over with us once again. On Thursday, June the 11th, the European Human Rights Court in Strasbourg, France reversed the conviction of 12 BDS activists, and ordered them compensation from France, saying they were wrongfully charged, quote, “with incitement to discrimination” because of their BDS activism. Now, as a reminder, BDS is the boycott, divestment, and sanctions movement against Israel. It’s a grassroots movement with millions of supporters throughout the world to end the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land.
The Israeli government has been pressuring governments to ban BDS and outlaw them as racist and antisemitic, despite the reality, that BDS stands against racism and apartheid and is committed to nonviolent protest, working within the boundaries of human rights and international law. Here in the United States, 23 states have passed anti-BDS legislation. The significance of the ruling of the European Human Rights Court is that it applies to all member nations of the European Union.
Now, while Palestinian and other solidarity groups and others celebrate the court’s decision, it’s unclear whether the French government will file an appeal and what that means. To wrestle with the significance of all of this, we’re joined once again by Sonia Feynman, who is a French activist. She’s been active in the progressive grassroots movements since 1968 against the occupation. She’s a member of the organization, Union of French Jews for Peace, and is also with the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network. Sonia, welcome back; good to have you with us here on the Real News again.
So Sonia, let me start with this case itself. I mean, the 12 people convicted and now acquitted were charged the crime of distributing BDS flyers in front of shopping centers, and there were thousands of people in France who were doing this all over the place. What’s interesting is, BDS is made up of Jews and Christians, but the majority of people here who were brought to trial from France were Muslim or had Muslim names at the very least. So is it just a coincidence? Is something afoot here? I’m just curious about what you think about that.
Sonia Feynman: Well, I’m not sure they were the majority of the group. There were several of them who were Muslims. Most of them, French, but two of them non French. Well, it’s clear that Arabs and Muslim people in France are mostly in favor of Palestine and of the Palestinian rights. So it’s not surprising that in the BDS movement, there are so many Muslim people. But at the same time, there are also all other sorts of people and in particular, Jews, like me.
Mark Steiner: And like me. So this pushes a bit further. I mean, the French courts and parts of French government have really been pushing a very strong pro Israeli line. I mean, this decision, it seems to be pretty significant, in that it talks about everybody who’s a member of the European union. So in this [inaudible 00:03:18], first, the French courts fined the activists significantly. Then the European courts decided, no. Now we’re going to find France to reimburse and pay the people who were convicted. So, I mean, so despite the back and forth legally, what is really at the significance of the heart of this, do you think?
Sonia Feynman: First of all, what’s significant is the resilience of these 12 people who acted in front of justice for years, because they started in 2009 and they had two series of actions, in 2009 and 2010, and then all these trials and appeals and so on. The court of [foreign language 00:04:02] in France finally in 2015, confirmed the appeal and condemned them. So that’s a very important fact. Now we are all very pleased that they are released and that the European court gave them a justice.
At the same time, it’s important to see that the European Court of Justice [inaudible 00:04:34] this law for freedom of press, which dates back to 1881 in France, at least two specific articles, seven, and 10. After examining the whole affair, they decided that it was not a question of hatred, as the French government was saying, hatred and discrimination and racism against Israel and the Jews. No, it was a question of political expression, political freedom, and freedom of expression. So that’s important at a time when France is keeping this habit of pursuing. They have been not been convicted as the [foreign language 00:05:26] wants. So it’s important in France. It’s important in Germany too, because the German government is very hard against [foreign language 00:05:38].
Mark Steiner: So I want to pick up on that point. I mean, the difficulty here, so ways historically around the BDS movement, especially in Europe, and the United States as well, but especially in Europe, where the sensibilities and the sensitivities run deep on both fronts. I mean, Europe was the home of the Holocaust. Still clearly Germany is really always bending over backwards to say, “No, we’re not antisemitic, and we’re not going to allow antisemitism.” It spreads like Europe like that, and then you have the split inside the Jewish world as well in Europe and across the world, over what Israel is doing. So it’s sometimes a very, very difficult issue to address because of all of the kind of historical realities that we all face from the Holocaust of the occupation in this giant arc. So talk about that in terms of, in light of this decision and where do you think this takes this conversation in terms of really kind of getting underneath the pain that exists for many people in this.
Sonia Feynman: I don’t see exactly what you mentioned with your last words.
Mark Steiner: Pain? I mean the emotional pain that goes along with this movement.
Sonia Feynman: But whose emotional pain are you talking about?
Mark Steiner: I guess I’m talking about everybody’s emotional pain. Because it’s how you bridge that in saying that the occupation was in, BDS is not antisemitic, and how difficult it is to kind of bridge that conversation.
Sonia Feynman: Yeah. Well, I think in our organization, UCFB, we think that this whole affair of antisemitism, reproaching antisemitism to BDS people and to organizations that are critics of Israel, Israeli politics. Well, I don’t find the word, but it’s important because, well, it’s a way Israel has found in order to smear people criticizing Israel. So they kind of invented this thing of antisemitism. So of course there is emotional pain, as you say, on both sides, but mainly it’s important to show that Israel is not representing all Jews in the world, and that Israel has been keeping this Holocaust memory in order to invade Palestine and to oppress people in Palestine. So that’s very emotional, but we have to think politically more than emotional.
Mark Steiner: Yeah, Glenn Greenwald, who is also Jewish, wrote an article on the Intercept, called the greatest threat to free speech in the West is criticizing activism against the Israeli occupation. So you have this world now where far right wing leaders in the West have taken on really serious pro Israeli views. At the same time, they’re trying to crush democratic in their own country, and the president of the country that we’re broadcasting from, Trump is at the pinnacle of this in many ways. So, I mean, do you think that the court’s decision can change something for Palestinians? Can a protected free speech in Europe in general, will do anything to change the dynamic of the battle and the conversation?
Sonia Feynman: Yes. I think what it can change mostly is a recognition of the nonviolent character of BDS and the character of powerful way of showing the injustice perpetrated in Palestine, in Israel. So that’s a first fact. Also what’s important is to realize that Palestinians themselves are very resilient and are resisting for all this time. So, well, I think this ruling of the court can show the world that freedom of expression has to be respected. In that case, in the case of BDS, it significant pace to help people doing BDS and acting as BDS in the BDS campaign, to show them and to show the word that they can continue, that it’s justified, and that it’s a battle for justice and for the respect of international law. So- [crosstalk 00:10:34]
Mark Steiner: I’m sorry.
Sonia Feynman: Despite all the efforts Israel is making to smear academics, especially in the United States, because they are very, very active, some of them, in supporting BDS and Palestinians. So this minister of strategical affairs, which has been created in Israeli especially to, I would say, smear people, BDS activists, as well as academics all over the world. Despite this energy they’re making, and the big investment, they’re investing huge amounts of money. Despite all this, BDS is going on. Well, you mentioned at the beginning that several states in the United States have been declaring unlawful BDS, and that’s a pity. France has been trying to do that, but now they know they can’t, and it’s giving us strength to go on with boycott, divestment, and sanctions.
Mark Steiner: So finally, I’m curious, A, do you think that France will appeal and what that might mean? B, I’m just very curious, did you expect this to happen? When it did happen, what is it like for all of you in the movement in Europe, and France especially?
Sonia Feynman: Well, I don’t think France will go to appeal, but, well, I’m not sure. But I don’t think because now they’ve been all this process since 2010 and although the French government is very close to Israel, I think they are conscious, and there is a crisis in France too, with COVID and these urgent state depriving, people of kind of liberties. Now with the deconfinement, there are very many demonstrations, not only in support of George Floyd and against police violence in the United States and in France, because we have the same problem. There are also people in the health sector and many things happening against the government claiming having [inaudible 00:12:59] the government. So the government is kind of worried about so many things that I don’t think they will go to appeal this decision. Let’s see.
Among the Jewish communities, well, it varies because organized associations like ours exist also in other European countries. We have a grouping, a federation of groups which is called EJJP, European Jews for a Just Peace, which has been declaring also that the ruling was very good. Also there is a group of Palestine committee solidarities in Brussels. It’s all Europe. So it’s called ECCP, European Coordination of Committees for Palestine. Also, they are very pleased with the ruling and every group is expressing its satisfaction about what’s decided in the European court. But at the same time in Germany, in Britain, in France, there are these mainstream organizations, like the one which is called [FIEF 00:14:16] in France, which is a so-called council representing Jewish organization in France, which is a real ally of Israel. Not only an ally, but it’s like the voice of Israel in France. They reacted saying that it was too bad, but not very violently. So that’s also a reason why I can’t think, because at the same time, they’re close to the French government. So it’s another reason that makes me think that maybe there won’t be an appeal on the part of the French government. But I’m convinced, and Israel has showed it already, I’m convinced that Israel will continue harassing us and trying to prevent actions of the BDS and this divestment and so on.
Mark Steiner: Well, Sonia, A, let me just first thank you for all the work you do in this arena, and thank you once again for joining us here on the Real News Network. I look forward to talking to you again very soon.
Sonia Feynman: Okay. Thank you.
Mark Steiner: Thank you so much. I’m Mark Steiner here for the Real News Network. I’m glad you could join us, please let us know what you think and take care.
Sonia Feynman: Thank you.
Production: Genevieve Montinar, Shir Hever
Studio: Bababtunde Ogunfolaju
Related
Republish This Story Republish our articles for free, online or in print, under a Creative Commons license.


therealnews--2020-06-25--Progressives Head To Congress After June 23 Primary

With results still coming in and many races too close to call , it appears that progressives fared well in the June 23 Democratic primary elections .
New York congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez won the primary contest for her seat .
“ What you all have shown is that a people ’ s movement here is not an accident , it is a mandate , ” she said .
The progressive torch-bearer better known as AOC faced a challenge from a more moderate former business news anchor .
Ocasio-Cortez said early returns showed her constituents support her stances on Medicare for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ “ Green New Deal.
” “ Some of the early results that we ’ ve seen have us at about 70 to 72 % .
To win with that kind of mandate is transformative .
And it tells us our policy positions are not an accident .
It ’ s exactly what our community has been waiting for , ” she said .
New York officials said results on Tuesday night did not include returns from absentee ballots , which were requested in record numbers during the coronavirus pandemic .
Those ballots will @ @ @ @ @ @ @ after the election .
Also in New York , progressive candidate Jamaal Bowman , a middle-school teacher , declared victory over 16th District incumbent Congressman Eliot Engel .
Engel has spent more than three decades in Congress and chairs the powerful House Foreign Affairs Committee .
His top donors include Wall Street and pro-Israel lobbyists .
He earned the endorsement of figures ranging from Hillary Clinton to New York Governor Andrew Cuomo .
Bowman earned the backing of progressives such as Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren .
Watch TRNN ’ s wide-ranging @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in Kentucky saw a showdown between the two Democrats seeking to take on Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell .
One of them , Amy McGrath , is a retired Marine fighter pilot .
She holds a lead over Charles Booker , a Kentucky state legislator , who surged in polls in recent weeks of protests after the killing of George Floyd .
McGrath , the Democratic establishment-backed candidate , spent over $ 21 million during the primary , while Booker spent just over $ 500,000 and won the backing of Sanders , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ vast majority of Kentucky ’ s 3,700 polling places were closed across the state , and the Booker campaign filed an injunction to allow voters in line when polls closed at 6 p.m. to vote .
Because absentee ballots are still outstanding , Kentucky officials said final results will not be known until June 30 .

With results still coming in and many races too close to call, it appears that progressives fared well in the June 23 Democratic primary elections.
New York congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez won the primary contest for her seat.
“What you all have shown is that a people’s movement here is not an accident, it is a mandate,” she said. The progressive torch-bearer better known as AOC faced a challenge from a more moderate former business news anchor. Ocasio-Cortez said early returns showed her constituents support her stances on Medicare for all, immigrant rights, and a “Green New Deal.”
“Some of the early results that we’ve seen have us at about 70 to 72%. To win with that kind of mandate is transformative. And it tells us our policy positions are not an accident. It’s exactly what our community has been waiting for,” she said.
New York officials said results on Tuesday night did not include returns from absentee ballots, which were requested in record numbers during the coronavirus pandemic. Those ballots will not be completely counted until a week after the election.
Also in New York, progressive candidate Jamaal Bowman, a middle-school teacher, declared victory over 16th District incumbent Congressman Eliot Engel.
Engel has spent more than three decades in Congress and chairs the powerful House Foreign Affairs Committee. His top donors include Wall Street and pro-Israel lobbyists. He earned the endorsement of figures ranging from Hillary Clinton to New York Governor Andrew Cuomo.
Bowman earned the backing of progressives such as Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Watch TRNN’s wide-ranging interview with with Bowman here:
https://therealnews-launch.newspackstaging.com/stories/jamaal-bowman-progressive-justice-democrats-bailout-rent-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-congress-new-york
Voters in Kentucky saw a showdown between the two Democrats seeking to take on Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.
One of them, Amy McGrath, is a retired Marine fighter pilot. She holds a lead over Charles Booker, a Kentucky state legislator, who surged in polls in recent weeks of protests after the killing of George Floyd. McGrath, the Democratic establishment-backed candidate, spent over $21 million during the primary, while Booker spent just over $500,000 and won the backing of Sanders, Ocasio-Cortez, and progressive groups.
The vast majority of Kentucky’s 3,700 polling places were closed across the state, and the Booker campaign filed an injunction to allow voters in line when polls closed at 6 p.m. to vote.
Because absentee ballots are still outstanding, Kentucky officials said final results will not be known until June 30.
Related
Republish This Story Republish our articles for free, online or in print, under a Creative Commons license.