therealnews--2020-04-21--Hunger Strikes, Uprisings, And The Politics Of Who Gets Released From Prison

TRNN ’ s Eddie Conway tracks prison uprisings and discusses how these protests could pave the way for radical change @ @ @ @

TRNN’s Eddie Conway tracks prison uprisings and discusses how these protests could pave the way for radical change in mass incarceration.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Eddie Conway: I’m Eddie Conway coming to you from Baltimore. Thanks for joining me for this episode of Rattling the Bars for the Real News. We have been watching for the past several weeks the pandemic as it has spread into the prison systems across America and we have a concern that this could be very detrimental to the prison population that’s housed in a confined space, sitting on top of each other in some cases. It could also be detrimental to the guard force that’s coming in and going back into the community. Joining me today is Ray Noll, Duncan [inaudible 00:00:52] and Joy James.
Okay, Duncan, I would like to start off with an overview, you put out a list on your website of incidents around the country. Can you kind of like just give us a broad overview of what’s going on in prisons across the country?
Duncan: Yeah, totally. So since the project started, the Perilous: A Chronical of Prisoner Unrest, we’ve been trying to track all instances of collective prisoner actions in the US and Canada since 2010 and we’ve been chipping away at that. And then when this crisis hit, we were like, we need to go into overdrive and just try to keep up with what we knew was going to be a huge wave of events. And as we predicted, since March 17th, there’s been, from what I can tell and what we can tell based on our research, one of the largest waves of prisoner organizing and unrest in a long time. I think a historian can make up more [inaudible 00:02:05] argument, but seemingly bigger than either of the last two national prisoner strikes, which were huge, amazing events. And this is like, from what I can tell, surpassing even those historic events of the prisoner movement.
We’re always counting new events and trying to… We’ll hear rumors on Twitter and stuff and try to at least confirm them, lots of rumors go around. But a current count I have is 48 events in the US and Canada, but only one of those is in Canada. So 47 events in the US since March 17th, which that was the first hunger strike that was a direct response to the virus spreading. And I can talk through some of the most recent numbers really briefly. This wave of prisoner unrest and actions has hit all over the country, but the most frequent states are five in Louisiana, four in New Jersey, four in California and four in Washington. The vast majority of the events that we’ve seen so far are at immigrant detention centers, that’s 26 that we count. But that’s a little bit confusing sometimes because sometimes immigrant detention centers are in county jails and so on. But it’s also had state prisons and one juvenile detention center.
And so what are these events look like? All sorts of stuff. A vast majority are hunger strikes, but there’s also been work stoppages and 10, what we call, uprisings, which is hard to quantify, but more confrontational events, what people might call riots, often attacked with pepper spray or tear gas by the guards. And there’s been also a series of other events like different sorts of protests. This one that got a lot of attention because of the tragic nature of it of this like collective threat of suicide that was put on Facebook live. It was like we’re going to collectively to commit suicide if this is not dealt with an inadequate way. And it’s so hard as we probably all know to count, to find out some of the information, to get in contact with some of the participants and see what issues sparked it, what demands they had, if there were no demands, what do they want the media to know about the riot. That’s difficult.
But what struck me and the rest of the Perilous crew about this wave of prisoner unrest, is that there is this demand that actually was super rare before right now, as far as I can tell, I have a limited scope on this. But the demand for immediate release, which is like this common sense demand that is going to save lives and one of the most inspiring and amazing things about this moment is I think that this demand that even in the prison strikes, they had different sets of demands, all really amazing and well thought out, but this one is super rare. We’re going to hunger strike for our immediate release or for the release of at-risk prisoners, older prisoners, people that have been in for longer amounts of time, slated for release.
That has showed up in many of these actions all across the country and if there is a glimmer of hope in any of this, it’s this common sense demand for more degree of freedom for getting of these facilities that are literally becoming guest sentences for these people. This is demand coming from prisoners and from all parts of society now in a way that could hopefully pave the way for some radical change to incarceration.
Eddie Conway: I looked at some of those. Obviously the threat for mass suicide was [inaudible 00:06:22] drama, but it did get attention in the hunger strikes and so on, they’re getting attention. Ray, maybe you can help me with this. What’s happening? What’s been the general response in the prison systems? As far as you know, the ones that you’re looking at, what’s been the response from the officials and what’s the attitude of the public? Everybody’s on panic mode right now. Can you assess any of that?
Ray: Duncan said about this being sort of a new moment, sort of an unprecedented moment of how people are asking for immediate release. I can only speak to the Chicago, Illinois situation, but certainly that is absolutely on the table. It seems like across the board from both people that are working on detention camps as well as sort of general abolitionists in the city and putting a lot of pressure on multiple levels of governments, including so that the mayor here, Mayor Lightfoot, Sheriff Dart, Cook County board in general, and then the governor in terms of asking for clemency, asking for furlough, asking for immediate release.
It seems like a very promising moment in which there’s sort of this mass scale ask for immediate release certainly from the inside, all across the board from the inside, but as well as a lot of the public. But then I think it’s being somewhat dampered by this concern around what type of crime and who should be released and the slowness of that process and amongst multiple scales of government at this moment.
What we’ve been seeing I think is that, unlike the New York case where a lot of those that have passed inside, there’s been a lot of profiling that they were innocent before proven guilty, but also just thinking about the technicality of their cases and dying is a death punishment for something that are on sort of juridical technicalities. What’s been happening in Chicago is that I think that there’s been a swarming of talking about those that have already died as people that basically deserve to die or because their cases were so violent, so sex offenses, rape, et cetera, there’s been a backlash right now from I think conservatives that saying, what else were we supposed to do, why would we mass release if you know, if these are sort of the worst?
I think something that I’ve been struggling with a little bit is that a lot of people that I know in county are on violent charges and a lot of their friends on treatment units have already been released because they have amazing efforts, one from community bond, but also have [inaudible 00:09:15] enough cases or on nonviolent charges that they’ve already been released.
Not enough focus is on is the way in which even the court systems right now are so, they’re basically suspending the ability for speedy trial at this point constitutionally and this happened at the end of March. But for instance, I have a friend who hasn’t seen a judge since January. Has had continuations now with this basically what is needed for their case is a mitigation, like some sort of mitigation interview because nobody can get in, that interview can’t happen and courts are suspended until at least May, if not longer, which means that even just to have access to a trial right now, so can’t be released because a bond, can’t be released because the charge, but also in this delayed court system has no way of getting out. And so paying attention to the ways in which these constitutional rights to a speedy trial are being impacted, particularly for those with violent charges, it’s super critical right now in a lot of ways.
Eddie Conway: Dr. Joy, I like that. My concern is that, I haven’t spent years in the prison system. I know for a fact that there’s overwhelming black and brown bodies in these systems, especially up at the supermax level, the maximum security level where everybody’s jammed in tight, there’s three inches of steel between each person. Say for instance, in dormitories you sometimes sleeping a foot, two feet away from the bunk next to you, just enough space to walk up and down this aisle. This pandemic, it’s going to have a devastating impact on the prison population and on primary, black and brown bodies. How do you see this?
Joy: Thanks for putting it into a great framework and it reminds me of a cargo ship or the hold, just like being packed in and also the disposability. You’re not humans, you’re just bodies, you’re cargo, you’re laborers that we can exploit and then dispose of it, the economy doesn’t need you right now. I’ve been connected to listening to RAPP a lot, release aging people from prison, Jose Saldana, Laura Whitehorn and others based in New York City and also the National Alliance Against Racist and Political Repression was re-founded in November in Chicago. Frank Chapman is now the director. Between Chicago Alliance and RAPP, you’re getting a picture of families. We talk about people in the first line, so the families, the friends, the kins of people who are incarcerated are also first line defenders. They’re attempting to give support, deal with the trauma of the people inside, and also deal with the secondary trauma that they’re feeling and also the desperation.
So I’ve heard black mothers say to Cuomo, like when we’re having these viral or virtual engagements that this is not going to be another Attica and that if Cuomo thinks that passing this new budget, he’s going to limit bail reform, he’s going to ignore the incarcerated, he’s going to have them make sanitizer to be sold, but not have soap, regular water or sanitizer for the incarcerated. Then she basically calls them out. Then he needs to have a second thought and also his job doesn’t have the security perhaps that he thinks it does.
I think to answer some of the questions that you’re posing to Duncan and to Ray, they’ve been, setting the stage, too, on how we engage with this. I think that first and foremost, everybody says, we’re all in this together, up to a certain degree and then the disposability of people gets based on your poverty or your wealth, gets based on your radical ideology because I have worked with political prisoners and have tracked the ways in which they’re tortured as an add-on to the general torturous environment of captivity and you’re obviously tracked by race.
What is it? It’s like 30% of the deaths in New York City are probably Latinx and about 24% or so or plus are black. So that’s 60%. It’s like whites are not dying at the rates that black and brown people are dying, nor Asians, but also people who are in these care industries, like they’re maintaining the city, they’re maintaining the hospitals, they’re maintained the entire infrastructure that has accepted that their value isn’t worth the dollar that they’d rather put into investment portfolios.
Eddie Conway: Thank you for that. I’m curious, Duncan or even Ray, do either one of you have an overview number of how many cases up to maybe yesterday has been located in the prison systems, detention centers, et cetera, or how many deaths have occurred? Can either one of y’all address that?
Duncan: As far as like deaths go, as far as cases in Michigan even where I live, it just changes so much and also people don’t have symptoms, 50% of people I heard like don’t have, so it’s really hard to say as far as cases. The two places I’ve just talked about, Rikers and Cook County Jail, Rikers, was having the rate at eight times higher than the rest of New York City and then Cook County has the largest cluster of cases in the country, cook County jail, sorry. And then deaths, my recent numbers say two people died at the Cook County jail, three across prisons in Georgia, 10 at different federal facilities around the country and three others in New York. By the time I read this, these are quite likely out of date, even if I got these numbers yesterday because of the nature of incarceration and the rate at which it spreads is unbelievable. But that’s some picture though from the recent past.
Eddie Conway: Ray, I’m going to get to you in one second. We’re having that same problem here in Maryland because the official numbers come out. There’s two or there’s five employees impacted, three people died, etc. And then when we talk to prisoners inside, we find that there’s dozens of prisoners that’s already been put in isolation, cases that they’re not talking about. The guards are denying that some of their officers have been infected, so it’s really shady. But Ray, you’re looking at the epicenter apparently. How does it look there?
Ray: As we should be suspicious of in all testing right now, the testing right now for inside is also more difficult to get accurate numbers. One thing before I sort of say the sort of numbers that we’ve been hearing in Illinois is that I think it’s important to not put the guard numbers with those that are incarcerated. I’ve been seeing this a lot. The number 493, which is the reason why Cook County got designated as the sort of epicenter of this. It’s 306 for those that are currently incarcerated and the rest are guards. Even though the guard numbers are important that’s basically sort of demonstrating the way that this is getting in and out right now in these spaces. But currently for Cook County, I didn’t look at the numbers this morning, but it’s at 306 and there’s three deaths.
I also have been paying close attention to Logan Correctional, which is the woman’s prison in Illinois. It currently has four cases from staff and two supposed cases testing positive of those that are incarcerated. This also comes after a two to three day loss of electricity and water, a power outage. I’m getting sort of mixed responses of what the source of that was. But I think the fear is right now is does that contribute to more cases in the coming days when people are not able to do laundry to wash, to anything. And also I’ve had limited phone access and tablet access because of that. Those are the numbers we’re looking at and a lot of people just expect them to increase in the coming days.
One thing that I’ve sort of been paying attention to in Chicago with friends that I know of that have been released is that they’re often going into these sort of second chance reentry programs as the only sort of way for employment, if you have a felony record. And most of these positions at this point are frontline positions. The friends that I know are working as bus servicers for CTA and the number of positive cases is kind of unreal at this point or at least, it feels overwhelming to hear how quickly and they’re going into these programs without any sort of protection. Unlike their apprentices, so they don’t have full time employment, they don’t have health insurance, a lot of them are losing their link cards, they’re losing their County Care, their health insurance benefits basically because they’re working too many hours as apprentices, but they don’t have any benefits.
And they’re often absolutely at the frontline of this. They are cleaning the buses in which there’s positive cases on. And because they’re not full time employees, they can’t apply for unemployment, they can’t get sick pay, they have no sick pay, they have no vacation time, and so if we think about just the wave of the impact of people coming out as well and just sort of the scope of the ways in which the prison industrial complex expands into work and these other work programs instead of, again, a lot of friends are mid-fifties, sixties with underlying health conditions being forced to basically work or not have anything. This is where our attention should be as well.
Eddie Conway: And obviously 25% of the world’s population of prisoners is here in America. And like I say, black and brown bodies make up somewhere around 76% of those. It struck me as a potential concentration camp, a disaster here in America with a pretty face on it, lipstick or whatever you want to call it, and I’m concerned that all of these people are locked in and we’re not really getting a lot of news [inaudible 00:21:36]. There’s probably all sorts of stuff going on inside these jails in terms of people being sick, people being in isolation, in the hospitals, in lockdown situations. It concerns me that this could be a dry run for concentration camps. Does this concern you at all, Joy?
Joy: I have friends, the word genocide has come up and I think you raised it as well and the academic in me says, this is the 50th anniversary coming up for We Charge Genocide. When William Patterson crafted and Malcolm marched to the UN and so I think like the information that Duncan, that Ray and that others and yourself, we’ve put on the table, it would have to be information that we would want to look at without a filter, without these kinds of cheering like, well we’ll get through this or we’re better than this.
People talk about it’s a war as if a virus is actually the aggressor. The aggressor’s the state. That’s why you have so many cage people, the highest rate in the world. That’s why they’re treated as bad as you would treat abused animals because their humanity doesn’t register It’s a word that has sophisticated propaganda aspects. I think Ray or Duncan spoke to that, this we’ll let the good ones out maybe, but the bad ones are going to be a threat. The state is a threat to you and that doesn’t minimize the crime that happens, the domestic violence that happens, the sexual assault that happens [inaudible 00:23:29].
But the state is a predatory state and I’m not speaking a hyperbolic sense or we don’t have to run through the numbers, we don’t have to go through like what happened after Katrina in terms of disposability, what happened in Flint, Michigan with the water and Legionnaires’ disease, people dying from that. This is a thing in New York. I’m at window, we’re banging on the can with the wooden spoon and I’m expressing my appreciation for all the healthcare providers, for all the people who are keeping the buses running the subways, there are hundreds of people who are out, 30 plus people who do mass transit have died, bus drivers.
In terms of our emotional intelligence, it goes back to camps of disposability, concentration camps. It’s not just their appreciation that’s part of our emotions, it’s our rage. And this is what I’m looking for as a public discourse, not just with my friends. Our right to be furious and enraged about this moment, which has always been this moment. It’s just like incredibly expanded, it’s not even the numbers of death, it’s because the economy got screwed up. People die all the time in the states based on race, poverty. They’re hunted, they’re exploited, but because the economy is off-kilter, it’s having an impact that radiates straight up the ladder. And then what they’re going to do is enforce austerity measures, which is what Cuomo did with this new budget, which is just going to create more stress, more distressed, more death.
Yeah, I side with my friends, it’s genocidal. It doesn’t have to be Nazi Germany, the UN convention lays it out. It’s multi-varied. And then the point becomes, would we want to have a confrontation however that evolves intellectually, politically, electorally around disposability and mass death.
And one last thing I want to say. The official numbers are the numbers that make it to the hospital. A lot of people don’t make it to the hospital. 200 people die a day in their apartments in New York City. And since you’re not testing, you don’t know that they’re dying from COVID. But disproportionately, they’re going to be black and brown people. We’ve always been dying at home, we’ve always been dying homeless, we’ve been dying in prison, we’ve been dying outside of prison. Somehow if this is a pivotal moment, we would have to have an analysis that would be able to make an impact on the political order.
Duncan: I think from what I’ve seen and the actions that I’ve helped research for Perilous, prisoners are right there with the tone of this panel. Not to generalize all prisoners, but it’s people are talking about it as life or death. They’re talking about it. If they’re not saying genocide, they’re seeing it as a death sentence, as whatever, however they got in there whether that’s for immigration reasons. They’re seeing now is [inaudible 00:27:04] as a life or death situation and they’re fighting for their life. They’re fighting for their survival and they’re fighting for their freedom. That’s part of the story, too, of this resistance to the genocide.
Eddie Conway: Well, since we got a couple minutes, though if it’s all right with you all, I do want to get the idea in also from the three of y’all of who can people reach out to or what can they or should they be doing? Ray, you want to stay off?
Ray: I just like echo what Duncan and sort of everybody else has said is that one of the most important things right now is communication inside, daily communication. We shouldn’t expect that the official releases for any of this information is going to be accurate and so having connections and strengthening those connections right now is crucial and critical. Also, just following the line of what already so many beautiful organizations have showed up in the last month or so demanding call-ins, demanding to floor the governor’s lines and all these lines to demand immediate release and putting in a lot of work of getting statements and other materials out as quickly as possible.
My one thing around this is of course that I feel very skeptical of asking the state when the state has failed so many of us, particularly failed black and brown communities over and over and over again to ask them to do immediate release just seems a difficult ask or one that doesn’t seem clear to me will be done with any sort of pressure. And the other option I think is caravans and we’re in this unique moment where we can’t organize the way that we used to be able to organize. And so I think caravans had been really brilliant ways to respond to gathering and being instead of in public whatever that means at these moments.
I think we should also be careful about these, too. They are often about visibility and spectacle. For instance, in Chicago when the caravan happened, Toni Preckwinkle, who’s part of the board, thanked the organizers for doing this caravan and I don’t know how much we could say we’re on the right side if we have the sort of politicians who are basically blocking this, thanking us for that sort of work. It means that we’re not pushing hard enough. And I would sort of reaffirm that the goals of something like a caravan can be multiple and it can be about shared visibility, shared joy, but also getting noise across. People inside can hear, particularly at County. It’s not true at other rural prisons that have long gates between the streets, but certainly people inside can and these in coordinating with people inside to know that you’re there, having a phone number where you can show that to a number of people, can call and talk about conditions during the caravan. Those are really important moves and had been done through lots of actions like Dekalb, Atlanta people did this.
But the other thing is thinking about our cars at this point and those who have access to cars, we can act as barricades to these infrastructures, thinking about people being able to come in and out and thinking about response times to national guard. If we really think that the actual fight of this all is going to be happening in a moment of unrest, that’s actually where the fight is. We can do all the stuff in the outside to support, but if we have sort of a meaningful understanding that this fight is actually happening between in that moment, thinking about ways that caravans can mobilize at that moment, too. I think it’s crucial and important to thinking about being a part of that fight that’s, again, beyond visibility only, which I’m not diminishing, but also just saying we can take a step up, take it up a notch, I think in that way.
Eddie Conway: I’m going to bounce back to you, Duncan, for what people can be doing.
Duncan: That’s always a good question and always a hard question to answer. I think people are positioned to do different things and there are some paroles are happening in Michigan, at least. People are getting pushed out of the door a little bit and supporting people that get out is a huge thing that we’re looking at here. I love what Ray was saying and also people that aren’t paroled are getting out themselves. There’s been a couple of escapes because of this, because the choice is escape or die for these people and that’s how they’re framing it. I think the one in this county jail in Washington, after four or five days, people got caught up again. But if you’re watching this and that happens around you, these people are fleeing for their lives and I think this is a wild time where new things are possible and I think taking whatever action you’re positioned to do to protect people and especially the vulnerable and the prisoners.
Eddie Conway: Joy, same question, but I was just thinking as this was going about Storming the Bastille and I know we can’t storm the Bastille here now under these circumstances, but what do you think people can be doing, should be doing and what’s your final thoughts?
Joy: I appreciate that question. I’ve been asking that to myself and with my folks, but one thing that comes out is the distribution lines. We can get goods to the extent that we can buy supplies or for people in prison put more money into their commissary. But distribution, like it’s all about distribution supplies, what you can get in or what you can give in terms of stamps of that people can write to you via email or Jpay or whatever, but also outside. I think it’s almost like parallel worlds. There needs to be distribution centers, like you can’t rely on the state to be able to deliver.
The other thing I think I know we’re talking about the US, but we also need to go global just because of what’s going on in Brazil with Bolsonaro, what’s going on in Haiti, we could go around the globe. It may seem like it’s a stretch, but it’s not. If we can see what other countries are doing and we can compare with our own and we can work with people that we know, including political prisoners, who I think have knowledge about how deep state repression goes. Political prisoners in the US, political prisoners in Bolsonaro’s Brazil, indigenous, black people, radicals of all ethnicities, of all backgrounds, I think that’s important.
And one of the last things I would say or two lat things, for somebody who’s an academic like me, we have to change our consumption patterns. We need to consume less, put aside funds more, and then distribute them to these organizations that can distribute them in different ways for advocacy or for the people who are inside. And then it is a fight. We have ongoing, a political fight with government on all branches in all levels. If you can lobby your governor to whatever [inaudible 00:35:12] of prisons, et cetera, with compassionate release clemency. The people are calling all different levels of the government and just flooding their phone lines. They’re writing. That’s one kind of advocacy.
I don’t want to belabor this point. Everything that we’re doing is going to be important. Everything we do is going to be insufficient. We will still have people we care about, people we never know who will die, but our trauma from that can be, I’m thinking of Greta Thunberg who says, “Asperger’s is a super power.” Our trauma could be our superpower, that we won’t compromise with this same old template that we keep being presented in front of us as some sort of panacea for all these ills that are largely created by predatory behavior from government and from corporations and others. There’ll be other pandemics, but maybe in struggling with this one, we’ll be better prepared to increase our chances and the chances of the people who should not be captive anywhere.
Eddie Conway: All right, thank you for joining me for this episode of Rattling the Bars for The Real News.
Studio: Cameron Granadino
Production: Cameron Granadino, Ericka Blount Danois
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therealnews--2020-04-21--The Primary Vote In Wisconsin May Be A Bellwether For The Presidential Race

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Mark Steiner : Welcome to The Real News .
I ’ m Mark Steiner .
Good to have you with us .
Now , none of us knows what ’ s going to happen in November .
This may be the most crucial election in American history , in our living memory , at any rate .
And what happened in the Wisconsin primary on April 7th could be a bellwether for what happens in that state November and across the nation .
Wisconsin is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ What does the Wisconsin primary tell us about where we ’ re headed ?
It ’ s a state rife with voter suppression , gerrymandering to get right wing Republicans power .
Voter rolls purged by the hundreds of thousands to get people of color and the poorest voters off those rolls .
Trump won by only 23,000 votes , and this last primary was forced to be held despite the corona pandemic .
It showed that African-American and other voters braved death , wearing masks and gloves , waiting in lines for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ mean for November ?
Well , we ’ re joined by two Wisconsin activists and political leaders .
Angela Lang is the founder and executive director of BLOC , that ’ s Black Leaders Organizing for Communities .
A Milwaukee-based organization founded in 2017 , it ’ s become one of the most important political organizations in the state .
And David Ahrens who served six years as a Madison , Wisconsin city councilman .
Prior to that he worked as research director for many unions and then as a research program manager @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Medicine and Public Health .
They both join us now from Milwaukee and Madison respectively .
Welcome to The Real News .
So , let ’ s just set a very quick stage here , and Angela , I want to start with you .
Set the stage on April the 7th , what it was like in Milwaukee with all those voters coming out , waiting for hours to vote in mass .
Talk a bit about that day and what you all had to do with it .
Angela Lang : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for having me in and really uplifting what happened on that day .
I think a lot of folks saw those pictures and saw the long lines , who was in those lines , and I think a lot of people were inspired .
But for me and a lot of our folks , I was devastated .
I was heartbroken to see people have to make the choice between their health and in making their voice heard .
And in a lot of places , but specifically Milwaukee , we see the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ color and specifically the black community .
About 70 something percent of the cases are specifically folks from the black community .
And so , to see people brave that was really gut-wrenching to wake up and to see .
Milwaukee typically has around 180 polling locations under normal circumstances and we only had five on this particular election day .
And so , that allowed for long lines and it also had more people than would normally be in one polling location than typical you would see in any other election .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ I think it just goes to really speak to how resilient a lot of us are , in the fact that no matter what , we ’ re going to do what we can to make our voices heard .
There were some folks unfortunately who , for the first time , weren ’ t able to vote .
There were some folks in my age group who weren ’ t able to vote for the first time and they pride themselves in never missing an election .
And we saw some elderly @ @ @ @ @ @ @ missed this election as well .
And no matter what they said , they were like , “ You know what ?
I missed this election , but I don ’ t care if I have to walk in the rain or do whatever , I ’ m not going to miss the November election.
” And so , I think it ’ s an indicator of just how much of a power grab it can be in order to retain power and really suppress the votes of black and brown voters .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ things , Angela , we ’ re talking about here , I think I ’ ll let you both respond to , is that this all came on top not just the pandemic , but voter suppression , cutting people off the rolls in 2019 , which adversely affected mostly minorities and older people , and then poor people in the state .
Then mail ballots , I was reading , weren ’ t even sent out .
People didn ’ t get their mail ballots , so they were forced to go @ @ @ @ @ @ @ So I mean , there was an effort to stop this vote from happening in the first place .
Go ahead , David , and then we ’ ll go right back to Angela .
David Ahrens : Yeah , the upper target group were students .
There are many barriers for students registering to vote in terms of the student IDs not being valid proof of identification .
And then for those people who did get absentee ballots , they were often sent late .
There were real difficulties in registering online @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they were sent back and it didn ’ t have the appropriate postmark , then they were discounted .
And this was thousands of votes .
There were also instances where actually there were photographs in a post office of tubs of absentee ballots that were never sent back to the county and city clerks , so just thousands of additional votes that were discarded .
We ’ ll really never know the level of loss and really disenfranchisement as a result of the whole absentee ballot fiasco .
Mark Steiner : So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ jump in and- Angela Lang : Our state , we had calls after the election where people were asking , “ Is there a way that I can track my ballot and make sure it actually was counted ?
” A lot of times people in our community , they prefer to vote in person and they prefer to early vote .
They want to see their ballot go in the machine and hear that beep , and so you can ensure that their vote is counted .
I think we have a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ instore that whatever systems are in place , not just for the November election , but there is a special election in some places in a couple of weeks- Angela Lang : … and then there ’ s an election in August as well .
We need to really restore the public ’ s trust and confidence that if people are mailing in their ballots that not only are they going to get them on time , but they ’ re also going to be received .
There are folks that we know @ @ @ @ @ @ @ within the deadline and to this day they still haven ’ t gotten their ballot .
Mark Steiner : So , just for our own edification , Angela , what are those two elections coming up you ’ re talking about , just very quickly ?
Angela Lang : Yeah , so there is a special election in May for a congressional seat , but which is not in Milwaukee , so we haven ’ t been doing any work on that one in particular .
But in August , our state houses @ @ @ @ @ @ @ half of our Senate and specifically in Milwaukee the DA as well .
So , it ’ s not a super quiet election depending on if there ’ s going to be some primaries .
We just elected a new County executive with this past election and he was a former state or he is a current state representative , so his seat will now be vacant .
So , there ’ s some moving pieces and some really important things on the ballot in August as well .
David Ahrens : Right @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that the election is in August , which is another absurdity about holding a primary election in the middle of the summer during a pandemic- David Ahrens : … and having a completely ineffective and widely discredited absentee ballot system .
So , every barrier that can be thrown up now is really sort of in place and it ’ s hard to get people to believe that making that effort will really make a difference .
Mark Steiner : So , let ’ s talk a bit about Wisconsin in November and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the nation .
I mean , your former governor , Scott Walker , said that , “ As for November , there are no real takeaways as the turnout will be twice as large , ” and he was talking about the email vote and the rest .
So I mean , what do you think is going to happen ?
I mean , let me start it this way , what does Wisconsin tell us ?
What does it say to the nation about what could happen , what ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Wisconsin as you said to me the other day , David , is a deeply divided state , really divided politically , like the country .
Mark Steiner : So Angela , let me start with you and then we ’ ll come back to David .
I mean , talk about what you think for what we just saw happen in Wisconsin says about the vote coming up in November .
Angela Lang : Yeah .
I think in this time of uncertainty we ’ re not knowing how long things are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ t know really what the state of the world under this pandemic is going to look like in November , and so making sure that there ’ s enough safeguards in place .
I think the only advantage that we have is that Wisconsin is now experienced in holding an election during a pandemic when everybody else has postponed their elections .
So at least we can kind of see this a little bit as a trial run because we ’ ve gone through it already on April 7th , whereas other states @ @ @ @ @ @ @ alter their elections , whether it ’ s delaying them or doing them exclusively by mail or other ways .
But we see what this looks like , and so I ’ m hoping that we can take lessons learned .
I think there ’ s a lot of people that were really , really frustrated about the back and forth .
There can be an information gap in some communities .
It was really hard for us to constantly push out information about new deadlines , all the postmark issues back and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ middle of making calls and text messages to our folks when Governor Evers released his executive order .
And so , we had to suddenly tell people to stop because things were changing by the hour .
So , we ’ re hoping that we ’ re able to take some lessons learned and really provide that for November .
Mark Steiner : And David , you were saying- Mark Steiner : Oh , yeah .
Go ahead , pick up .
David Ahrens : Yeah , I wanted to say that for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ states where you have a split legislature and governor in terms of party , where we have some executive capacity there to be more proactive than our governor , though he intended to do the right thing , there were so many different signals and so many different initiatives to stall the vote , change the vote and so on , that people who were on the ground were just blinded by these constant changes in what the play is going to be .
So I just got telling people , “ The @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s off .
It ’ s on .
It ’ s off , ” between the courts , and the executive , and the legislature .
So I think for people to have sort of establish a very clear path and say , “ This is the strategy we ’ re going to use and we ’ re going to do whatever is necessary to stick to it.
” If it ’ s going to be a mail in absentee ballot strategy , let ’ s create the system to do that and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ which is quite a bit of what we had .
Mark Steiner : So , I ’ m curious what the two of you think what this election has said .
I mean , both Wisconsin but also across the nation , and what it might portend .
I mean , you had Democrats , the Karofsky .
Did I say that right ?
Karofsky ?
Mark Steiner : Karofsky .
Excuse me , I ’ m sorry .
Winning for the State Supreme court against a Republican Conservative who Trump tweeted about @ @ @ @ @ @ @ winning Wisconsin by 23,000 votes .
He is elected- Mark Steiner : 19,000 votes , thanks for the correction .
David Ahrens : No , I said Gore won by 19,000 .
Mark Steiner : Gore won by 19,000 votes .
So , that ’ s how tight it is .
David Ahrens : That ’ s how tight it always is .
Mark Steiner : So , both of you are deeply involved in politics .
What do you think it says to the nation about what could happen in November and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ organizing is going by progressives and Democrats in terms of this coming election , what it says for your state , but what it says to the nation ?
What do you both think ?
Angela .
Angela Lang : Yeah .
I think we knew very early on , long before this pandemic even hit , that this was going to be all about turnout : who can talk to the most people ?
Who can turn out the most people ?
Because , we know that the margin was so close @ @ @ @ @ @ @ organization and our partner organizations to make sure that we were engaging voters in rather than the broader community and residents long before any of this hit .
We wanted to make sure we were engaging people on a year round basis .
I think what this did , I know that they tried to suppress votes and I think to an extent that worked .
But I also think a side effect of it was people are so agitated and frustrated with the great lengths that people have gone through just to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s actually making people more determined .
People are starting to make plans now .
People are asking questions now .
People are requesting ballots for the rest of the year for all of their elections that they ’ re voting in now , so that they ’ re not overloading the Election Commission or overloading the postal service to make sure that they can get their ballots in time .
People are making those plans now .
And I agree with David , something that I ’ ve been saying before is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in place now and figure out what that plan is .
Whether I agree with how robust it is or not , I just want to make sure that there is a plan and that there is a strong educational campaign to make sure people know about the proper deadlines , those deadlines don ’ t move , this is the plan and we ’ re sticking to it .
Because , I think people need to feel that they have confidence in the system that their ballots can be cast .
We @ @ @ @ @ @ @ folks that I think people got a crash course just in one day , in the 24 hours just before an election .
We got a crash course in civics .
We saw how our governor made decisions , we saw how our legislature makes decisions and we saw how the courts intervened and all of those were elected in Wisconsin .
And so , I think people are putting together the pieces of how crucial it is to elect the leaders that are actually going to make sure that our voices are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ heart .
And through our legislature and through the court systems , quite frankly , failing us in this particular process , I think people are agitated in a good way and more determined to making sure that their votes are counted for the rest of the year , not just in November as well .
David Ahrens : Yeah .
I think one thing is , and this is sort of looking back not forward , and I know you want us to look forward , but I think that what the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ leadership , was so egregious , forcing us to have this election during this epidemic that many of the areas that were 50/50 or even traditionally Republican voted for Karofsky .
I think that was just a sense of Wisconsin indignation and not being fair , and that these powers that be were not really looking for the best interests of voters and the people .
So , I think that backfired .
But in terms of what to look forward to , I think other progressives and activists have to really go @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the barricades that are going to be put before us in terms of just voter ID and voter roll suppression ?
And you ’ re having to certify your address by mail 30 days before the election .
I think the worst one was really what the Milwaukee voters faced , which was basically shutting down all the polling sites to five places in the middle of winter , making people wait and not knowing where to vote .
I ’ ve been a poll official in past elections and when you have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ polling place has been changed and you have to go to blah , blah , blah , blah place instead , ” it ’ s like saying , “ Go home.
” David Ahrens : 50 % of the people will not do it .
I think that in itself is a strategy that ’ s [ crosstalk 00:17:27 ] really effective in voter suppression and we have to be ready for that .
Mark Steiner : Sorry , I didn ’ t mean to interrupt you , David .
Mark Steiner : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ m just curious how you both feel about what your analysis is and feelings are about what could happen in November , what Wisconsin tells the rest of the country ?
David Ahrens : We ’ re going to win .
That ’ s very good .
Angela Lang : I agree .
And I have read so many articles about how Wisconsin is going to be the state that decides the election .
I ’ ve read probably the equally amount of articles that said black voters are going to be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And so with all of that being said , I ’ m glad that there ’ s a lot of attention being played on Wisconsin and specifically the power of black voters .
But we also know with it is going to come an influx of Republican money .
There ’ s going to be an influx .
I think they were spooked a little bit .
I think the Republican Party is a little concerned about that outcome on the April 7th election .
And so , we need to be prepared @ @ @ @ @ @ @ there going to be other things that they ’ re going to try and throw our way ?
And like David said , being able to make sure that we have this checklist , what are the barriers ?
There can be a technology gap at times .
We heard reports that people , when they were trying to request an absentee ballot and you had to upload a picture of- Angela Lang : … your ID , people were sending selfies instead of taking pictures of their ID .
So , making @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to get done and making sure everything is as clear and as smooth as possible , all things considered .
And we need to kind of get a jump on that sooner rather than later .
Mark Steiner : Well , this has been a great conversation .
I look forward to talking to you a great deal more down the campaign trail , especially as we hit the fall and see what ’ s going on and find out more about what ’ s happening in both Madison and Milwaukee .
I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s founder and executive director of Black Leaders Organizing for Communities in Milwaukee .
Good to have you with us .
Really good to meet you .
Mark Steiner : Glad to have you here .
We look forward to many more times with us .
And David Ahrens , former city councilman in Madison , Wisconsin and labor organizer and teacher .
Good to have you with us as well .
Mark Steiner : Talk to you all soon .
And that ’ s it .
We will continue this coverage @ @ @ @ @ @ @ crucial election in modern history and we ’ ll see how this all pans out and what [ inaudible 00:19:44 ] Wisconsin activists are doing to affect the outcome of the election come November .
I ’ m Mark Steiner here for The Real News Network .
Please stay safe and stay healthy and stay inside .
Take care .

Wisconsin is a deeply divided state. A former Madison councilman and the founder of Milwaukee’s most important Black political organization join us to examine how the political struggle there is a lesson for the nation.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Mark Steiner: Welcome to The Real News. I’m Mark Steiner. Good to have you with us. Now, none of us knows what’s going to happen in November. This may be the most crucial election in American history, in our living memory, at any rate. And what happened in the Wisconsin primary on April 7th could be a bellwether for what happens in that state November and across the nation. Wisconsin is crucial to winning the presidential election. What does the Wisconsin primary tell us about where we’re headed? It’s a state rife with voter suppression, gerrymandering to get right wing Republicans power. Voter rolls purged by the hundreds of thousands to get people of color and the poorest voters off those rolls. Trump won by only 23,000 votes, and this last primary was forced to be held despite the corona pandemic. It showed that African-American and other voters braved death, wearing masks and gloves, waiting in lines for hours to vote.
What does this mean for November? Well, we’re joined by two Wisconsin activists and political leaders. Angela Lang is the founder and executive director of BLOC, that’s Black Leaders Organizing for Communities. A Milwaukee-based organization founded in 2017, it’s become one of the most important political organizations in the state. And David Ahrens who served six years as a Madison, Wisconsin city councilman. Prior to that he worked as research director for many unions and then as a research program manager for the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health. They both join us now from Milwaukee and Madison respectively. Welcome to The Real News.
So, let’s just set a very quick stage here, and Angela, I want to start with you. Set the stage on April the 7th, what it was like in Milwaukee with all those voters coming out, waiting for hours to vote in mass. Talk a bit about that day and what you all had to do with it.
Angela Lang: Yeah. First of all, thanks for having me in and really uplifting what happened on that day. I think a lot of folks saw those pictures and saw the long lines, who was in those lines, and I think a lot of people were inspired. But for me and a lot of our folks, I was devastated. I was heartbroken to see people have to make the choice between their health and in making their voice heard. And in a lot of places, but specifically Milwaukee, we see the coronavirus has been disproportionately impacting communities of color and specifically the black community. About 70 something percent of the cases are specifically folks from the black community. And so, to see people brave that was really gut-wrenching to wake up and to see.
Milwaukee typically has around 180 polling locations under normal circumstances and we only had five on this particular election day. And so, that allowed for long lines and it also had more people than would normally be in one polling location than typical you would see in any other election. And so, it was heartbreaking. I think it just goes to really speak to how resilient a lot of us are, in the fact that no matter what, we’re going to do what we can to make our voices heard.
There were some folks unfortunately who, for the first time, weren’t able to vote. There were some folks in my age group who weren’t able to vote for the first time and they pride themselves in never missing an election. And we saw some elderly folks that felt really devastated that they missed this election as well. And no matter what they said, they were like, “You know what? I missed this election, but I don’t care if I have to walk in the rain or do whatever, I’m not going to miss the November election.” And so, I think it’s an indicator of just how much of a power grab it can be in order to retain power and really suppress the votes of black and brown voters.
Mark Steiner: So one of the things, Angela, we’re talking about here, I think I’ll let you both respond to, is that this all came on top not just the pandemic, but voter suppression, cutting people off the rolls in 2019, which adversely affected mostly minorities and older people, and then poor people in the state. Then mail ballots, I was reading, weren’t even sent out. People didn’t get their mail ballots, so they were forced to go to the polls.
David Ahrens: It’s crazy.
Mark Steiner: So I mean, there was an effort to stop this vote from happening in the first place. Go ahead, David, and then we’ll go right back to Angela.
David Ahrens: Yeah, the upper target group were students. There are many barriers for students registering to vote in terms of the student IDs not being valid proof of identification. And then for those people who did get absentee ballots, they were often sent late. There were real difficulties in registering online for an absentee ballot. Then if they were sent back and it didn’t have the appropriate postmark, then they were discounted. And this was thousands of votes.
There were also instances where actually there were photographs in a post office of tubs of absentee ballots that were never sent back to the county and city clerks, so just thousands of additional votes that were discarded. We’ll really never know the level of loss and really disenfranchisement as a result of the whole absentee ballot fiasco.
Mark Steiner: So Angela, why don’t you jump in and-
Angela Lang: Yeah.
Mark Steiner: Go ahead, Angela. I’m sorry.
Angela Lang: Our state, we had calls after the election where people were asking, “Is there a way that I can track my ballot and make sure it actually was counted?” A lot of times people in our community, they prefer to vote in person and they prefer to early vote. They want to see their ballot go in the machine and hear that beep, and so you can ensure that their vote is counted. I think we have a lot of work to do to really instore that whatever systems are in place, not just for the November election, but there is a special election in some places in a couple of weeks-
David Ahrens: We know.
Angela Lang: … and then there’s an election in August as well. We need to really restore the public’s trust and confidence that if people are mailing in their ballots that not only are they going to get them on time, but they’re also going to be received. There are folks that we know that applied for and requested a ballot within the deadline and to this day they still haven’t gotten their ballot.
David Ahrens: Right.
Mark Steiner: So, just for our own edification, Angela, what are those two elections coming up you’re talking about, just very quickly?
Angela Lang: Yeah, so there is a special election in May for a congressional seat, but which is not in Milwaukee, so we haven’t been doing any work on that one in particular. But in August, our state houses are up, our state representatives, half of our Senate and specifically in Milwaukee the DA as well. So, it’s not a super quiet election depending on if there’s going to be some primaries. We just elected a new County executive with this past election and he was a former state or he is a current state representative, so his seat will now be vacant. So, there’s some moving pieces and some really important things on the ballot in August as well.
David Ahrens: Right. I’m managing a campaign that the election is in August, which is another absurdity about holding a primary election in the middle of the summer during a pandemic-
Mark Steiner: Right.
David Ahrens: … and having a completely ineffective and widely discredited absentee ballot system. So, every barrier that can be thrown up now is really sort of in place and it’s hard to get people to believe that making that effort will really make a difference.
Mark Steiner: So, let’s talk a bit about Wisconsin in November and also what Wisconsin says to the rest of the nation. I mean, your former governor, Scott Walker, said that, “As for November, there are no real takeaways as the turnout will be twice as large,” and he was talking about the email vote and the rest. So I mean, what do you think is going to happen? I mean, let me start it this way, what does Wisconsin tell us? What does it say to the nation about what could happen, what’s about to happen? I mean, Wisconsin as you said to me the other day, David, is a deeply divided state, really divided politically, like the country.
David Ahrens: Yes. It’s 50/50.
Mark Steiner: Right?
David Ahrens: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mark Steiner: So Angela, let me start with you and then we’ll come back to David. I mean, talk about what you think for what we just saw happen in Wisconsin says about the vote coming up in November.
Angela Lang: Yeah. I think in this time of uncertainty we’re not knowing how long things are going to last. We don’t know really what the state of the world under this pandemic is going to look like in November, and so making sure that there’s enough safeguards in place. I think the only advantage that we have is that Wisconsin is now experienced in holding an election during a pandemic when everybody else has postponed their elections. So at least we can kind of see this a little bit as a trial run because we’ve gone through it already on April 7th, whereas other states had enough sense to be able to alter their elections, whether it’s delaying them or doing them exclusively by mail or other ways. But we see what this looks like, and so I’m hoping that we can take lessons learned.
I think there’s a lot of people that were really, really frustrated about the back and forth. There can be an information gap in some communities. It was really hard for us to constantly push out information about new deadlines, all the postmark issues back and forth. We were literally in the middle of making calls and text messages to our folks when Governor Evers released his executive order. And so, we had to suddenly tell people to stop because things were changing by the hour. So, we’re hoping that we’re able to take some lessons learned and really provide that for November.
Mark Steiner: And David, you were saying-
David Ahrens: Right.
Mark Steiner: Oh, yeah. Go ahead, pick up.
David Ahrens: Yeah, I wanted to say that for those states that are sort of split states where you have a split legislature and governor in terms of party, where we have some executive capacity there to be more proactive than our governor, though he intended to do the right thing, there were so many different signals and so many different initiatives to stall the vote, change the vote and so on, that people who were on the ground were just blinded by these constant changes in what the play is going to be. So I just got telling people, “The election’s on. It’s off. It’s on. It’s off,” between the courts, and the executive, and the legislature.
So I think for people to have sort of establish a very clear path and say, “This is the strategy we’re going to use and we’re going to do whatever is necessary to stick to it.” If it’s going to be a mail in absentee ballot strategy, let’s create the system to do that and follow through and not flip around, which is quite a bit of what we had.
Mark Steiner: So, I’m curious what the two of you think what this election has said. I mean, both Wisconsin but also across the nation, and what it might portend. I mean, you had Democrats, the Karofsky. Did I say that right? Karofsky?
David Ahrens: Karofsky.
Mark Steiner: Karofsky. Excuse me, I’m sorry. Winning for the State Supreme court against a Republican Conservative who Trump tweeted about and supported. You have Trump only winning Wisconsin by 23,000 votes. He is elected-
David Ahrens: Gore won by 19,000 votes.
Mark Steiner: 19,000 votes, thanks for the correction.
David Ahrens: No, I said Gore won by 19,000.
Mark Steiner: Gore won by 19,000 votes. So, that’s how tight it is.
David Ahrens: That’s how tight it always is.
Mark Steiner: So, both of you are deeply involved in politics. What do you think it says to the nation about what could happen in November and how people are motivated, where the organizing is going by progressives and Democrats in terms of this coming election, what it says for your state, but what it says to the nation? What do you both think? Angela.
Angela Lang: Yeah. I think we knew very early on, long before this pandemic even hit, that this was going to be all about turnout: who can talk to the most people? Who can turn out the most people? Because, we know that the margin was so close in 2016, which is why our organization and our partner organizations to make sure that we were engaging voters in rather than the broader community and residents long before any of this hit. We wanted to make sure we were engaging people on a year round basis. I think what this did, I know that they tried to suppress votes and I think to an extent that worked. But I also think a side effect of it was people are so agitated and frustrated with the great lengths that people have gone through just to silence our votes, that it’s actually making people more determined.
People are starting to make plans now. People are asking questions now. People are requesting ballots for the rest of the year for all of their elections that they’re voting in now, so that they’re not overloading the Election Commission or overloading the postal service to make sure that they can get their ballots in time. People are making those plans now. And I agree with David, something that I’ve been saying before is that we need to have a plan in place now and figure out what that plan is. Whether I agree with how robust it is or not, I just want to make sure that there is a plan and that there is a strong educational campaign to make sure people know about the proper deadlines, those deadlines don’t move, this is the plan and we’re sticking to it. Because, I think people need to feel that they have confidence in the system that their ballots can be cast.
We’ve talked to a lot of folks that I think people got a crash course just in one day, in the 24 hours just before an election. We got a crash course in civics. We saw how our governor made decisions, we saw how our legislature makes decisions and we saw how the courts intervened and all of those were elected in Wisconsin. And so, I think people are putting together the pieces of how crucial it is to elect the leaders that are actually going to make sure that our voices are heard and have the best interests at heart. And through our legislature and through the court systems, quite frankly, failing us in this particular process, I think people are agitated in a good way and more determined to making sure that their votes are counted for the rest of the year, not just in November as well.
Mark Steiner: David, go ahead. Go ahead. [inaudible 00:15:21].
David Ahrens: Yeah. I think one thing is, and this is sort of looking back not forward, and I know you want us to look forward, but I think that what the State Supreme Court did and the Republican leadership, was so egregious, forcing us to have this election during this epidemic that many of the areas that were 50/50 or even traditionally Republican voted for Karofsky. I think that was just a sense of Wisconsin indignation and not being fair, and that these powers that be were not really looking for the best interests of voters and the people. So, I think that backfired.
But in terms of what to look forward to, I think other progressives and activists have to really go through the checklist of: what are the barricades that are going to be put before us in terms of just voter ID and voter roll suppression? And you’re having to certify your address by mail 30 days before the election. I think the worst one was really what the Milwaukee voters faced, which was basically shutting down all the polling sites to five places in the middle of winter, making people wait and not knowing where to vote. I’ve been a poll official in past elections and when you have to tell people that, “Your polling place has been changed and you have to go to blah, blah, blah, blah place instead,” it’s like saying, “Go home.”
Mark Steiner: Right.
David Ahrens: 50% of the people will not do it. I think that in itself is a strategy that’s [crosstalk 00:17:27] really effective in voter suppression and we have to be ready for that.
Mark Steiner: Sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you, David.
David Ahrens: Yeah, it’s okay.
Mark Steiner: So as we close here, I’m just curious how you both feel about what your analysis is and feelings are about what could happen in November, what Wisconsin tells the rest of the country?
Angela Lang: Yeah.
David Ahrens: We’re going to win. That’s very good.
Angela Lang: I agree. And I have read so many articles about how Wisconsin is going to be the state that decides the election. I’ve read probably the equally amount of articles that said black voters are going to be the demographic that wins the election. And so with all of that being said, I’m glad that there’s a lot of attention being played on Wisconsin and specifically the power of black voters. But we also know with it is going to come an influx of Republican money. There’s going to be an influx. I think they were spooked a little bit. I think the Republican Party is a little concerned about that outcome on the April 7th election. And so, we need to be prepared and try to figure out, are there going to be other things that they’re going to try and throw our way? And like David said, being able to make sure that we have this checklist, what are the barriers? There can be a technology gap at times. We heard reports that people, when they were trying to request an absentee ballot and you had to upload a picture of-
David Ahrens: A photo.
Angela Lang: … your ID, people were sending selfies instead of taking pictures of their ID. So, making sure that people know exactly what needs to get done and making sure everything is as clear and as smooth as possible, all things considered. And we need to kind of get a jump on that sooner rather than later.
Mark Steiner: Well, this has been a great conversation. I look forward to talking to you a great deal more down the campaign trail, especially as we hit the fall and see what’s going on and find out more about what’s happening in both Madison and Milwaukee. I want to thank Angela Lang, who’s founder and executive director of Black Leaders Organizing for Communities in Milwaukee. Good to have you with us. Really good to meet you.
Angela Lang: Thank you.
Mark Steiner: Glad to have you here. We look forward to many more times with us. And David Ahrens, former city councilman in Madison, Wisconsin and labor organizer and teacher. Good to have you with us as well.
David Ahrens: Thank you.
Mark Steiner: Talk to you all soon. And that’s it. We will continue this coverage, obviously. This is the most crucial election in modern history and we’ll see how this all pans out and what [inaudible 00:19:44] Wisconsin activists are doing to affect the outcome of the election come November. I’m Mark Steiner here for The Real News Network. Please stay safe and stay healthy and stay inside. Take care.
Production: Genevieve Montinar, Bababtunde Ogunfolaju, Andrew Corkery
Studio: Bababtunde Ogunfolaju
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therealnews--2020-04-22--Earth Day’s Bipartisan Legacy, 50 Years Later

This story is broadcast as part of Covering Climate Now , a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story and a week of coverage focused on Climate Solutions to mark the 50th anniversary of Earth Day .
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Kim Brown : Welcome to The Real News .
I ’ m Kim Brown .
On April 22nd , 1970 , over 20 million activists across the United States participated in the first ever Earth Day .
It was before the environmental movement focused on climate @ @ @ @ @ @ @ issues such as ecological overshoot , water and air pollution and unbridled economic growth .
The first Earth Day came just months after the Santa Barbara offshore oil spilling in California , the largest in US history at the time .
Although it took a massive level of grassroots organizing to pull it off , the movement also had a major leader inside of the halls of power .
His name was Gaylord Nelson .
He was a US Senator , a Wisconsin Democrat and he had visited the Santa Barbara oil spill @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the anti-Vietnam war teachings at the time and concerned about the lack of congressional action on environmental issues , Nelson created a nonprofit called the Environmental Teach-In , Incorporated .
Nelson ’ s advocacy eventually took a life of its own through grassroots organizing and came to be known as Earth Day .
Here to talk about this history and connected to the present is Tia Nelson .
She is the daughter of the late Gaylord Nelson , the former Senator .
Tia is the managing director of the Outrider Foundation ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as the executive secretary of the Board of Commissioners of Public Lands in Wisconsin from 2004 through 2015 .
She was a director of the Global Climate Change Initiative at the Nature Conservancy for 17 years as well .
She joins us today from Washington , DC area .
Tia , thank you so much for being here .
Tia Nelson : Oh , thank you so much for having me .
I ’ m happy to be here and help tell the story of the first Earth Day .
Kim Brown : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ removed since the first Earth Day .
Can you share with us what you remember about that day in 1970 ?
Tia Nelson : I ’ m often asked what my first memories of Earth Day are .
I was in junior high school in the DC metropolitan area going to what was then called Kensington Junior High .
I was picking up trash on the school grounds .
I didn ’ t have a sense of the significance of the event at that time .
Kim Brown : What kind of an @ @ @ @ @ @ @ especially at that time ?
I mean , it was sort of grooming you to be a future activist .
Tia Nelson : Well , I adored my father .
He and I were very close .
At a very young age , I became interested in what he was doing and I had a sense that he was doing something important .
I certainly had a strong that public service was an honorable calling .
He served in the United States Senate with Bobby Kennedy .
They were seatmates .
I had @ @ @ @ @ @ @ begged my father to let me go to the Senate with him when I didn ’ t have school .
I ’ d open mail in his office in the morning and go over and see Bobby in the afternoon .
I certainly had a sense that he was doing really important things , but I don ’ t think I ’ d recognized the significance of Earth Day until probably the decade old anniversary in 1980 .
Of course , it was a surprise to my father .
His original idea was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ action to teachers across the country to set aside a day to teach on the environment .
He hoped through youth engagement and activism that he could shake Washington out of its lethargy and get it talking about what he thought were the most important issues of the time .
It was successful beyond his wildest dreams .
Kim Brown : So Walter Cronkite , the veteran legendary broadcaster , described those participating in the first Earth Day in a way that a lot of environmentalists or environmental activists are… describe present day @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s listen to what Walter Cronkite had to say .
Walter Cronkite : At one measurement , Earth Day failed .
It did not unite .
It did attract a broad cross-section of America its sponsors wanted .
Not quite .
Its demonstrators were predominantly young , predominantly white , predominantly anti-Nixon .
Often , its protests appeared frivolous , its protestors , curiously carefree .
Kim Brown : But in a 1970 speech given by your father at the time , this was before the first Earth Day in Milwaukee , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ waging war in Southeast Asia and pollution within America ’ s inner cities .
Gaylord Nelson : And our goal is not just an environment of clean air and water and scenic beauty while forgetting about the worst environments in America , in the ghettos , and in Appalachias and elsewhere .
Our goal is an environment of decency , quality and mutual respect for all human beings and all other living creatures , an environment without ugliness , without ghettos , without poverty , without discrimination , without hunger and without war @ @ @ @ @ @ @ like the paradigm that we see today as environmental justice or climate justice .
Can you explain what Senator Nelson was trying to convey here and what he meant when he called ecology a big science in that same speech ?
Tia Nelson : Well , I love that… Thank you for mentioning that .
I love that a speech in that clip is included in a film that the Outrider Foundation has produced with youth activist Varshini Prakash and Republican climate change advocate , Bob Inglis .
My father said ecology is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ science .
It includes the worst environments in America , in the inner city , and in Appalachia .
I found a print version of that speech in a bookshelf here in my mother ’ s house where we ’ re sequestered , like millions of Americans and billions of people around the world .
The print version says the environment includes rats in the ghetto and public housing unworthy of its name .
So my father ’ s original call to action in 1970 , 50 years ago , think about this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ seen through this broader social justice lens that frankly , the environmental community has only recently embraced better late than never .
But my father ’ s call to action 50 years ago was multi-generational , it was bipartisan and it was a social justice lens through which he viewed the environment .
And the environment wasn ’ t just pristine places where affluent white-skinned people could escape to enjoy nature .
It included the environments in the inner city .
It included public housing and worthy of its name .
I think @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the part of the environmental community that it took us so long to hear that part of his message .
I think we ’ re making great progress in that regard now , but we ’ ve got a lot of work to do .
Kim Brown : Tia , I wanted to ask , because much of our current environmental policies were shaped and passed in 1970s , most notably , of course , the formation of the Environmental Protection Agency .
And so much of the science that was available in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the laws that we have on the books some 50 years later .
But to even get any sort of environmental regulations passed , it required bipartisan approaches where the Republican President Richard Nixon was even amenable to signing off on such legislation to create laws that would guard our air , and our water .
So at that point , I mean , what do you think drove that bipartisanship that we really don ’ t see today , we don ’ t see the coming together of Republicans and Democrats to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ embracing clean air and water ?
It ’ s viewed mostly as a democratic thing .
Tia Nelson : Yes , which is unfortunate , right ?
Because regardless of your political persuasion , or how old you are , or your economic standing , we all need to breathe clean air and drink clean water to prosper , you know ?
I think that the first Earth Day , one of its significant successes was that it brought the country together .
Now keep in mind , the country was very divided @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
There was a lot of partisan bickering .
My father was on Richard Nixon ’ s enemy list for his early opposition to the war and yet President Nixon created the Environmental Protection Agency .
More environmental laws were passed in the decade that followed the first Earth Day than any other time in American history .
Congress adjourned on that day and most every congressman , Democrat or Republican , went home to their district and participated in an Earth Day event .
The Clean Air Act was adopted , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Those are really significant , noteworthy and historically important milestones that the issue the environment has become politically divisive and partisan in the manner that it has is a source of great despair for me .
It ’ s one of the reasons I thought it was so important to include Bob Inglis ’ s voice in our film to look at the past , the present and the future of the environmental movement on the anniversary of Earth Day .
I have to believe that Republicans and Progressives and Democrats can come @ @ @ @ @ @ @ economic wellbeing , the wellbeing of the public health , our rights to breathe clean air and drink clean water , these know no political boundaries .
I puzzle a lot over how we ’ ve become so politically divided .
I have my own theories .
I don ’ t think I ’ m smart or perhaps wise enough to really know the answer .
I ’ ve got to believe that the Supreme Court decision , Citizens United , played a significant role because of the dark money from special interests @ @ @ @ @ @ @ campaigns and further corrupt our democracy , that that had a significant influence .
Kim Brown : Lastly , Tia , I want us to zoom in a bit on Wisconsin , a state where your father did go on to serve as governor .
And to say that the politics of the state have been turbulent for the past 10 years or so is an understatement .
I know you know this very well because you served as a member of the Board Of Commissioners for Public Lands .
So how does @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a rust find gold both in the tradition of fighting Bob LaFollette and the progressive era in Wisconsin also produce polar opposites like Senator Joe McCarthy , Governor Scott Walker , and former Majority Leader Paul Ryan ?
What political forces have driven those changes and what ’ s different in Wisconsin today than it was say a generation ago ?
Tia Nelson : The question you ask is an interesting one .
Wisconsin does have a really long tradition as the home of progressive political voices going back a hundred years .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ changed and become a purple state , I think , is a complicated and perhaps nuanced one .
I think that there was a growing resentment and distrust towards government that has occurred across the country that is not unique to Wisconsin .
Personally , I think that gerrymandering of congressional legislative districts played a significant role and is eroding our sense of… and opportunity to be a robust democracy .
It ’ s quite unfortunate , whether you think of the Supreme Court ’ s Citizens United case or the fact that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ state in the country , and it ’ s not healthy .
Look at the election results .
Tony Evers , our sitting governor , got 100,000 more votes than a Democrat than… forgive me , than the Republicans did in the legislature , yet the legislature picked up seats .
How do you explain that ?
The maths doesn ’ t work , right ?
We are living in deeply troubling and challenging times in terms of the health and wellbeing of our democratic institutions and it ’ s everything from dark @ @ @ @ @ @ @ corrosiveness of our political culture at this time .
Kim Brown : Well , it was April 22nd , 1970 when millions of activists gathered to celebrate the earth and to make a stand and a statement regarding policies and actions needed to protect the earth and clean air and water .
Today , we ’ ve been speaking with Tia Nelson .
She is the managing director of the Outrider Foundation ’ s Climate Program .
She ’ s also the daughter of the late Gaylord Nelson , who served as a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Wisconsin , and who also served as a friend on earth-friendly policies while he was in leadership .
Tia , we appreciate your time so much and thank you so much for speaking with us .
Kim Brown : As are we .
Thank you for watching The Real News Network .

In 1970, Sen. Gaylord Nelson and an enormous grassroots movement held the first Earth Day. Nelson’s daughter, Tia Nelson, discusses how the environmental movement has changed in the last 50 years.
Story Transcript
This story is broadcast as part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story and a week of coverage focused on Climate Solutions to mark the 50th anniversary of Earth Day.
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Kim Brown: Welcome to The Real News. I’m Kim Brown. On April 22nd, 1970, over 20 million activists across the United States participated in the first ever Earth Day. It was before the environmental movement focused on climate change. Instead, it focused on issues such as ecological overshoot, water and air pollution and unbridled economic growth.
The first Earth Day came just months after the Santa Barbara offshore oil spilling in California, the largest in US history at the time. Although it took a massive level of grassroots organizing to pull it off, the movement also had a major leader inside of the halls of power. His name was Gaylord Nelson. He was a US Senator, a Wisconsin Democrat and he had visited the Santa Barbara oil spill site in its aftermath. Inspired by the anti-Vietnam war teachings at the time and concerned about the lack of congressional action on environmental issues, Nelson created a nonprofit called the Environmental Teach-In, Incorporated.
Nelson’s advocacy eventually took a life of its own through grassroots organizing and came to be known as Earth Day. Here to talk about this history and connected to the present is Tia Nelson. She is the daughter of the late Gaylord Nelson, the former Senator. Tia is the managing director of the Outrider Foundation’s Climate Program, and she has served as the executive secretary of the Board of Commissioners of Public Lands in Wisconsin from 2004 through 2015. She was a director of the Global Climate Change Initiative at the Nature Conservancy for 17 years as well. She joins us today from Washington, DC area. Tia, thank you so much for being here.
Tia Nelson: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I’m happy to be here and help tell the story of the first Earth Day.
Kim Brown: So Tia, we are 50 years removed since the first Earth Day. Can you share with us what you remember about that day in 1970?
Tia Nelson: I’m often asked what my first memories of Earth Day are. I was in junior high school in the DC metropolitan area going to what was then called Kensington Junior High. I was picking up trash on the school grounds. I didn’t have a sense of the significance of the event at that time.
Kim Brown: What kind of an imprint did it leave on you, especially at that time? I mean, it was sort of grooming you to be a future activist.
Tia Nelson: Well, I adored my father. He and I were very close. At a very young age, I became interested in what he was doing and I had a sense that he was doing something important. I certainly had a strong that public service was an honorable calling. He served in the United States Senate with Bobby Kennedy. They were seatmates. I had this big crush on Bobby. I begged my father to let me go to the Senate with him when I didn’t have school. I’d open mail in his office in the morning and go over and see Bobby in the afternoon.
I certainly had a sense that he was doing really important things, but I don’t think I’d recognized the significance of Earth Day until probably the decade old anniversary in 1980. Of course, it was a surprise to my father. His original idea was in environmental teach-in, a call to action to teachers across the country to set aside a day to teach on the environment. He hoped through youth engagement and activism that he could shake Washington out of its lethargy and get it talking about what he thought were the most important issues of the time. It was successful beyond his wildest dreams.
Kim Brown: So Walter Cronkite, the veteran legendary broadcaster, described those participating in the first Earth Day in a way that a lot of environmentalists or environmental activists are… describe present day as mostly white and affluent. Let’s listen to what Walter Cronkite had to say.
Walter Cronkite: At one measurement, Earth Day failed. It did not unite. It did attract a broad cross-section of America its sponsors wanted. Not quite. Its demonstrators were predominantly young, predominantly white, predominantly anti-Nixon. Often, its protests appeared frivolous, its protestors, curiously carefree.
Kim Brown: But in a 1970 speech given by your father at the time, this was before the first Earth Day in Milwaukee, Senator Nelson pointed to the connection between waging war in Southeast Asia and pollution within America’s inner cities.
Gaylord Nelson: And our goal is not just an environment of clean air and water and scenic beauty while forgetting about the worst environments in America, in the ghettos, and in Appalachias and elsewhere. Our goal is an environment of decency, quality and mutual respect for all human beings and all other living creatures, an environment without ugliness, without ghettos, without poverty, without discrimination, without hunger and without war.
Kim Brown: So this sounds like the paradigm that we see today as environmental justice or climate justice. Can you explain what Senator Nelson was trying to convey here and what he meant when he called ecology a big science in that same speech?
Tia Nelson: Well, I love that… Thank you for mentioning that. I love that a speech in that clip is included in a film that the Outrider Foundation has produced with youth activist Varshini Prakash and Republican climate change advocate, Bob Inglis. My father said ecology is a big science, not a narrow science. It includes the worst environments in America, in the inner city, and in Appalachia.
I found a print version of that speech in a bookshelf here in my mother’s house where we’re sequestered, like millions of Americans and billions of people around the world. The print version says the environment includes rats in the ghetto and public housing unworthy of its name. So my father’s original call to action in 1970, 50 years ago, think about this, that call to action was one seen through this broader social justice lens that frankly, the environmental community has only recently embraced better late than never.
But my father’s call to action 50 years ago was multi-generational, it was bipartisan and it was a social justice lens through which he viewed the environment. And the environment wasn’t just pristine places where affluent white-skinned people could escape to enjoy nature. It included the environments in the inner city. It included public housing and worthy of its name.
I think it’s certainly a failing on the part of the environmental community that it took us so long to hear that part of his message. I think we’re making great progress in that regard now, but we’ve got a lot of work to do.
Kim Brown: Tia, I wanted to ask, because much of our current environmental policies were shaped and passed in 1970s, most notably, of course, the formation of the Environmental Protection Agency. And so much of the science that was available in the ’70s still is applicable to the laws that we have on the books some 50 years later. But to even get any sort of environmental regulations passed, it required bipartisan approaches where the Republican President Richard Nixon was even amenable to signing off on such legislation to create laws that would guard our air, and our water.
So at that point, I mean, what do you think drove that bipartisanship that we really don’t see today, we don’t see the coming together of Republicans and Democrats to support the environment or to support initiatives embracing clean air and water? It’s viewed mostly as a democratic thing.
Tia Nelson: Yes, which is unfortunate, right? Because regardless of your political persuasion, or how old you are, or your economic standing, we all need to breathe clean air and drink clean water to prosper, you know? I think that the first Earth Day, one of its significant successes was that it brought the country together. Now keep in mind, the country was very divided in 1970, divided over the war. There was a lot of partisan bickering. My father was on Richard Nixon’s enemy list for his early opposition to the war and yet President Nixon created the Environmental Protection Agency. More environmental laws were passed in the decade that followed the first Earth Day than any other time in American history.
Congress adjourned on that day and most every congressman, Democrat or Republican, went home to their district and participated in an Earth Day event. The Clean Air Act was adopted, and the Clean Water Act was adopted. Those are really significant, noteworthy and historically important milestones that the issue the environment has become politically divisive and partisan in the manner that it has is a source of great despair for me. It’s one of the reasons I thought it was so important to include Bob Inglis’s voice in our film to look at the past, the present and the future of the environmental movement on the anniversary of Earth Day.
I have to believe that Republicans and Progressives and Democrats can come together in a common understanding that our economic wellbeing, the wellbeing of the public health, our rights to breathe clean air and drink clean water, these know no political boundaries. I puzzle a lot over how we’ve become so politically divided. I have my own theories. I don’t think I’m smart or perhaps wise enough to really know the answer. I’ve got to believe that the Supreme Court decision, Citizens United, played a significant role because of the dark money from special interests that was allowed to pour into political campaigns and further corrupt our democracy, that that had a significant influence.
Kim Brown: Lastly, Tia, I want us to zoom in a bit on Wisconsin, a state where your father did go on to serve as governor. And to say that the politics of the state have been turbulent for the past 10 years or so is an understatement. I know you know this very well because you served as a member of the Board Of Commissioners for Public Lands. So how does a state which produced Gaylord Nelson or a rust find gold both in the tradition of fighting Bob LaFollette and the progressive era in Wisconsin also produce polar opposites like Senator Joe McCarthy, Governor Scott Walker, and former Majority Leader Paul Ryan? What political forces have driven those changes and what’s different in Wisconsin today than it was say a generation ago?
Tia Nelson: The question you ask is an interesting one. Wisconsin does have a really long tradition as the home of progressive political voices going back a hundred years. The answer to how we’ve changed and become a purple state, I think, is a complicated and perhaps nuanced one. I think that there was a growing resentment and distrust towards government that has occurred across the country that is not unique to Wisconsin.
Personally, I think that gerrymandering of congressional legislative districts played a significant role and is eroding our sense of… and opportunity to be a robust democracy. It’s quite unfortunate, whether you think of the Supreme Court’s Citizens United case or the fact that we in Wisconsin have the most gerrymandered state in the country, and it’s not healthy. Look at the election results. Tony Evers, our sitting governor, got 100,000 more votes than a Democrat than… forgive me, than the Republicans did in the legislature, yet the legislature picked up seats. How do you explain that? The maths doesn’t work, right? We are living in deeply troubling and challenging times in terms of the health and wellbeing of our democratic institutions and it’s everything from dark money to gerrymandering to the sort of corrosiveness of our political culture at this time.
Kim Brown: Well, it was April 22nd, 1970 when millions of activists gathered to celebrate the earth and to make a stand and a statement regarding policies and actions needed to protect the earth and clean air and water. Today, we’ve been speaking with Tia Nelson. She is the managing director of the Outrider Foundation’s Climate Program. She’s also the daughter of the late Gaylord Nelson, who served as a senator and governor from the state of Wisconsin, and who also served as a friend on earth-friendly policies while he was in leadership.
Tia, we appreciate your time so much and thank you so much for speaking with us.
Tia Nelson: Thank you. I’m grateful.
Kim Brown: As are we. Thank you for watching The Real News Network.
Production: Genevieve Montinar, Bababtunde Ogunfolaju, Steve Horn, Andrew Corkery
Studio: Bababtunde Ogunfolaju
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therealnews--2020-04-22--Stir Crazy! Episode #19: Earth Day!

Stir Crazy! Episode #19: Earth Day!

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Steve Horn is a San Diego-based climate reporter and producer. He was also a reporter on a part-time basis for The Coast News—covering Escondido, San Marcos, and the San Diego North County region—from mid-2018 until early 2020.
Also a freelance investigative reporter, his work has appeared in The Guardian, Al Jazeera America, The Intercept, Vice News, Wisconsin Watch, and other publications. He worked from 2011-2018 for the climate news website DeSmog.com, a publication which investigates climate change disinformation and the fossil fuel industry influence campaigns.
His stories and research have received citation in a U.S. Senate report and mention in outlets such as The New York Times, The New Yorker, Bloomberg Businessweek, Mexico’s La Jornada, and The Colbert Report.
In his free time, Steve is a competitive distance runner, with a personal best time in the marathon of 2:43:04 and a 4:43 mile. He also has served on the film screening committee for the Heartland Film Festival in Indianapolis and serves on the screening committee for the San Diego International Film Festival.