therealnews--2020-02-14--Bloomberg’s Stop and Frisk Past Comes Back to Haunt Him

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Mike Bloomberg : … 95 % of your murders , and murderers and murder victims , fit one of them .
You can just take the description , Xerox it and pass it on to all the cops .
They are male , minorities , 16 to 25 .
That ’ s true in New York , that ’ s true in virtually every city [ inaudible 00:00:17 ] .
And cops in minority neighborhoods , yes , that ’ s true .
Why do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s where all the crime is .
And the way to get the guns out of the kids hands is to throw them against the wall and frisk them .
Kim Brown : Thanks for joining us here at The Real News Network .
I ’ m Kim Brown in Baltimore .
That ’ s former mayor of New York City and current democratic presidential candidate Michael Bloomberg during a 2015 Aspen Institute speech giving a perfectly reasonable and racist explanation as to why the policies of stop and frisk were acceptable during @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s just one of a handful of clips hidden in plain sight unearthed by independent journalist Benjamin P. Dixon that could very well kneecap the presidential aspirations of the billionaire oligarch .
Ben is a co-founder of TheNorthstar.com .
He ’ s also founder of The Progressive Army and he ’ s host of The Benjamin Dixon Show .
You can find him on YouTube , subscribe to his channel .
He joins us here today from Atlanta .
Welcome , Ben .
Ben Dixon : Thanks so much for having me @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Kim Brown : And we ’ re also joined in studio today by our own Real News correspondent Jaisal Noor who has followed the policing practices of Michael Bloomberg during his time as New York ’ s mayor .
Jaisal , I know you ’ ve been at that for a number of years .
Thank you for being here .
Kim Brown : All right .
Well Ben , we ’ re going to get started with you because the clips that you have found has received millions of plays , thousands @ @ @ @ @ @ @ February 10th and we ’ re going to get to those momentarily , but Ben , I wanted to ask you about the reaction that you ’ ve received from mainstream outlets , including this clip that aired on CNN .
Cristina Alesci : Here ’ s the thing , important context here .
We don ’ t have the full tape .
So this is obviously snippets that have been released .
The podcaster and the writer that released the sound is clearly a Bernie supporter .
If you look at his @ @ @ @ @ @ @ anti Bloomberg .
He is promoting a hashtag , # BloombergisaRacist .
We don ’ t know how he got the sound to begin with .
So lots of questions are being asked , especially on the timing of this , as you noted in your introduction .
A poll yesterday shows Bloomberg rising in the polls and particularly strong support in the African American community .
He polled at 22 % just behind Joe Biden at 27 % .
So the timing here and the mission here all calling into question- Speaker @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Kim Brown : All right .
That was Cristina Alesci .
She is a former Bloomberg Media employee who worked for Bloomberg media prior to coming to CNN .
And then the lack of self awareness is just laughable at this point .
But let ’ s answer some of her questions , though , Ben .
What was your motive ?
Where did you find this clip ?
And what of the timing of this release ?
Ben Dixon : Okay .
I mean , it ’ s hilarious because it was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , blame the universe .
I decided Friday that I wanted to turn the attention of my podcast to Michael Bloomberg because I felt some kind of way about a billionaire oligarch being able to buy his way into this election without any examination by the public .
And so Monday morning when I do my normal research every morning , I get up , I get some coffee , get the kids out to school , I do my research .
And I started looking for content on Mike Bloomberg .
I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , what they considered to be a racist speech against the second amendment right of African Americans .
So obviously there was a conservative spin there .
And I followed the words .
They didn ’ t have video .
They didn ’ t have audio .
All the had was a couple of excerpts .
And so I typed the excerpts into Google .
I mean , this is really basic stuff , right ?
So if she wants to know how we did it , it ’ s Research 101 .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ research that I did to find this .
I just took the due diligence of editing the quality of the audio .
If you hear the original , it ’ s very difficult to hear .
So I took my time , transcribed it .
I put the video together , I cleaned up the audio , and then I spent hours just pushing it to everyone in my network .
So as to the reason when , it fell in my lap Monday .
The why , because everyone needed to hear @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it ’ s shocking that the so called motives of a black man , an independent journalist are being scrutinized more so than the actual words that came out of Mike Bloomberg ’ s mouth .
Jaisal Noor : Absolutely .
And you just see the differential that an oligarch gets in the media .
When we ’ re talking about the harmful policies he is inflicting on black and brown working people in New York City , hundreds of thousands a year , people whose lives were affected who lived under terror @ @ @ @ @ @ @ re so easily dismissed by someone , as you mentioned , who worked for Bloomberg .
It just gives you more reason to be skeptical of how the corporate media , these big outlets [ inaudible 00:05:12 ] mention that Bloomberg ’ s already spent $ 350 million on advertising .
He ’ s bankrolling these networks with advertising .
He ’ s bought his way onto the debate stage .
And it just makes you need to be really skeptical of how the media ’ s portraying this , how the democratic @ @ @ @ @ @ @ just keep a really razor focused lens on his behavior and his record .
Kim Brown : And what ’ s interesting is as Jaisal said , you have to keep an eye on these corporate media outlets that obviously have interest in supporting someone like a Mike Bloomberg .
I mean , we saw this retrospectively from Donald Trump where every cable news outlet would cut to Trump ’ s rallies live with no sense of critique or no sense of in depth analysis , but then you clip even got Donald @ @ @ @ @ @ @ deleted tweet in reaction to your video .
Trump said , and I ’ m paraphrasing here , that Bloomberg , wow , what a total racist .
This is almost like the Spider-Man meme .
Are these guys pointing directly at each other like , “ No , I see you .
No , it ’ s you .
I see myself ” ?
So how has that been since Trump got ahold of it , and I ’ m sure it ’ s taken off tremendously .
Ben Dixon : Yeah @ @ @ @ @ @ @ point that Trump retweeted it , it was already at 3.4 million , I believe .
And now it ’ s at roughly 8 point … I don ’ t know .
And then if you combined Facebook and Twitter , I ’ m sorry , Facebook and YouTube , it ’ s probably over 10 , 11 , 12 million .
And so the president tweeting it out certainly brought more attention to it , but I think the important part is is that … Well , two things .
One , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ lack of self awareness , right ?
If there ’ s anybody racist in the conversation , it would be both of them together , because they both agreed on stop and frisk , right ?
And he promoted it before and I think that that ’ s why he deleted it , in addition to the fact that if you read down in my thread , I circled around and came around to criticizing Donald Trump as well .
So there ’ s simple reasons why he would ’ ve deleted that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the President of the United States has no ground to stand on .
Kim Brown : Absolutely .
And Michael Bloomberg has since responded via Twitter and a statement posted on his website where he said , “ President Trump ’ s deleted tweet is the latest example of his endless efforts to divide Americans .
I inherited the policy practice of stop and frisk and as part of our effort to stop gun violence , it was overused .
By the time I left office , I cut it back by 95 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ done it faster and sooner .
I regret that and I have apologized , and I have taken responsibility for taking too long to understand the impact it had on black and Latino communities.
” So Jaisal , can we count the lies in that statement ?
Where do we even begin there ?
Jaisal Noor : Yeah .
Bloomberg is trying to rewrite history .
While he did inherit stop and frisk from Giuliani , he greatly accelerated it .
He massively expanded several times over .
There was about 90,000 stops @ @ @ @ @ @ @ At its peak , it was close to a million people a year under Bloomberg ’ s term .
The reason that stop and frisk was pared down , and he is right that it had to end , it was because of massive protest , massive civil disobedience , and court decisions which found that stop and frisk was unconstitutional , it was racist , and the other thing was it was ineffective .
It didn ’ t work .
And once the public was presented with this information , the public @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in .
And so by the end of Bloomberg ’ s turn , those numbers did go down .
But to rewrite history in this way is completely disingenuous .
Kim Brown : And Ben , I ’ m sure you have been literally bombarded on social media and other places about people who had firsthand experience with these police practice , these policies to stop and frisk , virtually during most of the Bloomberg administration in New York City .
Can you tell us about some of the stories that people have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and Michael Bloomberg specifically impacted their lives ?
Ben Dixon : Yeah .
That ’ s the thing about this that makes this , this is so much bigger than even his presidential candidacy is the lives that were affected by his decisions , his worldview .
The audio really conveys to us that this is something that Michael Bloomberg deeply believes , he ’ s thought about it , he ’ s rationalized it , and then when you hear the stories of all the individuals who were hurt by it , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , of his belief , of his worldview .
People have sent me stories about just being a rite of passage as a teenager , they knew that at some point , multiple points , they would be stopped and frisked .
It didn ’ t matter whether they were walking down the street or whether they were in a restaurant .
I ’ ve heard stories of kids being pulled out of bodegas and thrown up against a wall .
And literally the language that Michael Bloomberg used here is the precise @ @ @ @ @ @ @ up against the wall , and those are the stories that I recognize the most , that touch the most , are the kids who remember being thrown up against the wall by these police .
And for Michael Bloomberg to say exactly that , that shows you the depth of how much he thought this through .
He thought this through from his logical justification for it all the way through the implementation of throwing kids up against a wall .
And so his apology does not match up to the depth @ @ @ @ @ @ @ policy .
Kim Brown : And that ’ s a point that I also wanted to raise with you , because he did say he apologized .
He said he has taken responsibility .
Has he ?
And what does that look like ?
What does Michael Bloomberg taking responsibility for stop and frisk even begin to do some sort of restoration to the communities that were impacted by this ?
That sounds like shenanigans .
Ben Dixon : Right .
The apology , like you stated out , he started the statement @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , it ’ s a statement .
He started it off by pointing to Donald Trump .
And I know Donald Trump is a white supremacist in chief .
We need to get rid of him in November , absolutely .
But he had nothing to do with Michael Bloomberg ’ s words .
Michael Bloomberg has to own this and he did not own it .
Yesterday in a press conference , he said that this was five years ago as if that was enough time between then and now to justify @ @ @ @ @ @ @ long ago that it ’ s not as relevant .
But more importantly , he said that he did not govern based on this .
And I ’ m like , [ inaudible 00:11:47 ] , that ’ s literally exactly how you govern .
What you said in Aspen in 2015 is precisely how you governed down to the tee .
And so yesterday , he showed not only is he not giving , he ’ s not sincere in his apology , he ’ s being downright deceitful , right ?
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ be deceitful and say , “ Listen , I ’ ve changed , I ’ ve grown .
That wasn ’ t … ” At the same time , he ’ s trying to say , “ That wasn ’ t me.
” But yes , that was you and what you ’ re saying now is that you don ’ t want to take accountability for it .
What does it look like ?
What does he need to do ?
He has to show us that he has given thought and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the same extent that he gave consideration in that speech .
If you listen to that speech , he thought this thing through , methodically .
Logically .
Reason .
His reasoning there , he took his time and just made a coherent case , a bigoted coherent case in his own mind .
And yet he simply says , “ I ’ m sorry , that was a long time ago.
” If what he did and what he said in 2015 were the Atlantic Ocean , his apology is analogous to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s insufficient .
Kim Brown : Come through , Ben Dixon .
So Jaisal , we were talking about how first of all , you can ’ t turn on television , you can ’ t cut on the radio , you can ’ t cut on your social media feed without seeing an ad for Michael Bloomberg .
He is spending so much money on this campaign .
Kim Brown : Just on Facebook alone , right ?
So had this happened or this particular type of nugget been unearthed of a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ would affect them more greater because perhaps their fundraising would take a hit , they would take a hit in the polls .
But Michael Bloomberg has the resources to power through- Jaisal Noor : He ’ s not doing any fundraising .
He ’ s not accepting money .
Kim Brown : Exactly .
But that ’ s what I mean .
He has the resources to power through any type of scandal and keep his political and advertising machine operating as much as it ever was .
So what do we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ especially as we head towards South Carolina and ever more so towards Super Tuesday with primary states that are more diverse than Iowa and New Hampshire where this could affect him at the polls ?
Jaisal Noor : We know that a lot of people , working people in this country don ’ t have the time or energy to necessarily keep up with the election , all the candidates .
We all know that , we all do what we can .
But in Bloomberg ’ s case , he ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Internet , flood the radio so much in places where there is no other media presence , there ’ s no other candidates hitting these states , especially the major Super Tuesday states outside of Texas and California , that he ’ s up already , he ’ s gained something like 15 percentage points in the polls among black voters in places like South Carolina .
So he ’ s making a huge impact , just spending all this money , putting out ads saying that he was … making it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ when that ’ s not the case .
He didn ’ t endorse Obama in 2008 and he attacked him 2012 when he gave him sort of a half endorsement .
But this is why it ’ s important that we have independent journalists like Ben Dixon that are putting this out there , using social media to get the word out , because we know that the corporate media isn ’ t going to hold him accountable in the ways that are necessary .
Kim Brown : Absolutely .
Ben , I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ do you think this will have amongst black democratic primary voters who are not quite in lockstep with any candidate at this point ?
I don ’ t think any candidate can claim that they have the black vote in their pocket .
Nobody does .
Even in 2016 , Hillary Clinton could lay claim to a good chunk of the black electorate .
That is not the case in 2020 .
So what does this do for Bloomberg is anything and does this give anybody else a bump ?
Ben Dixon : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ saturation of this clip .
So yesterday I heard on The Breakfast Club with Charlamagne tha God that they played the clip and they gave him Donkey of the Day .
So at that point , when it hit that threshold , I ’ m like , “ Okay , this is saturating down into the culture .
This is saturating down into everyone ’ s everyday life , people who aren ’ t paying attention to politics.
” Now because of that , I would venture to say that he ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in the African American vote .
Can it compete with the number of ads that he ’ s running in the Super Tuesday states ?
I don ’ t know .
We ’ ll have to see the polling .
But the level of saturation of this clip is getting to the point where it can actually have an impact .
Who does it benefit ?
That ’ s anyone ’ s guess at this point .
There ’ s been such a good job done against Bernie Sanders with regard to the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s doing good with the young Millennials .
Joe Biden is on his way out .
Elizabeth Warren never really scored significantly with the black vote .
There ’ s still room for someone .
I mean , obviously Pete Buttigieg is at zero percent in primary voters , black primary voters .
And Amy Klobuchar has a big issue that ’ s lingering out there in Minneapolis .
So I ’ m not sure who ’ s going to come in and actually pick up the slack here , but we ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , I can tell you , Ben , that many close observers of this race are grateful for you bringing this to light .
You made the mainstream outlooks look extremely silly , sir .
You have possibly done a dent into Michael Bloomberg ’ s campaign by tweeting it out to your followers .
So I mean , on behalf of us as a member of the progressive independent media family , we want to thank you for doing what you did .
And we want you to know that it is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a service to this country .
So thank you .
Ben Dixon : Oh , wow .
Thank you .
I appreciate those kind words .
Thank you so much .
Kim Brown : You ’ re welcome .
We ’ ve been speaking with Benjamin P. Dixon .
He has a podcast .
He has a show that you need to subscribe to .
It ’ s on YouTube .
He ’ s also co-founder of TheNorthstar.com and the co-founder of The Progressive Army .
We ’ ve also been joined in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Noor .
Jaisal has been reporting extensively on the policies of stop and frisk over the past decade while he was in New York City .
So thank you , Ben , and thank you , Jaisal .
Jaisal Noor : And Kim , I would just add that one of Bernie Sanders ’ top surrogates is Cornell West , who was an outspoken critic of stop and frisk .
He got arrested protesting stop and frisk , and so I would … If the debate moderators don ’ t ask Bloomberg about @ @ @ @ @ @ @ pretty sure that Bernie Sanders is going to bring it up in that next debate , in which Bloomberg was able to buy his way onto , which is right before the Nevada caucus .
So this story is not over .
I don ’ t think Bloomberg ’ s going to be able to put it behind him .
Kim Brown : Okay , guys .
We ’ re going to have to end the conversation there .
We ’ ve been speaking with Ben Dixon and Jaisal Noor and I ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Network .

Mainstream media is trying to gloss over Bloomberg’s racist record, and they’re willing to discredit independent journalists to do it.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Mike Bloomberg: … 95% of your murders, and murderers and murder victims, fit one of them. You can just take the description, Xerox it and pass it on to all the cops. They are male, minorities, 16 to 25. That’s true in New York, that’s true in virtually every city [inaudible 00:00:17]. And cops in minority neighborhoods, yes, that’s true. Why do we do it? Because that’s where all the crime is. And the way to get the guns out of the kids hands is to throw them against the wall and frisk them.
Kim Brown: Thanks for joining us here at The Real News Network. I’m Kim Brown in Baltimore. That’s former mayor of New York City and current democratic presidential candidate Michael Bloomberg during a 2015 Aspen Institute speech giving a perfectly reasonable and racist explanation as to why the policies of stop and frisk were acceptable during his tenure as mayor. And that’s just one of a handful of clips hidden in plain sight unearthed by independent journalist Benjamin P. Dixon that could very well kneecap the presidential aspirations of the billionaire oligarch.
Ben is a co-founder of TheNorthstar.com. He’s also founder of The Progressive Army and he’s host of The Benjamin Dixon Show. You can find him on YouTube, subscribe to his channel. He joins us here today from Atlanta. Welcome, Ben.
Ben Dixon: Thanks so much for having me. It’s a pleasure.
Kim Brown: And we’re also joined in studio today by our own Real News correspondent Jaisal Noor who has followed the policing practices of Michael Bloomberg during his time as New York’s mayor. Jaisal, I know you’ve been at that for a number of years. Thank you for being here.
Jaisal Noor: Absolutely.
Kim Brown: All right. Well Ben, we’re going to get started with you because the clips that you have found has received millions of plays, thousands of retweets since you first posted them February 10th and we’re going to get to those momentarily, but Ben, I wanted to ask you about the reaction that you’ve received from mainstream outlets, including this clip that aired on CNN.
Cristina Alesci: Here’s the thing, important context here. We don’t have the full tape. So this is obviously snippets that have been released. The podcaster and the writer that released the sound is clearly a Bernie supporter. If you look at his Twitter feed, he’s very anti Bloomberg. He is promoting a hashtag, #BloombergisaRacist. We don’t know how he got the sound to begin with. So lots of questions are being asked, especially on the timing of this, as you noted in your introduction. A poll yesterday shows Bloomberg rising in the polls and particularly strong support in the African American community. He polled at 22% just behind Joe Biden at 27%. So the timing here and the mission here all calling into question-
Speaker 6: But we also know …
Kim Brown: All right. That was Cristina Alesci. She is a former Bloomberg Media employee who worked for Bloomberg media prior to coming to CNN. And then the lack of self awareness is just laughable at this point. But let’s answer some of her questions, though, Ben. What was your motive? Where did you find this clip? And what of the timing of this release?
Ben Dixon: Okay. I mean, it’s hilarious because it was … If you want to blame anybody, blame the universe. I decided Friday that I wanted to turn the attention of my podcast to Michael Bloomberg because I felt some kind of way about a billionaire oligarch being able to buy his way into this election without any examination by the public. And so Monday morning when I do my normal research every morning, I get up, I get some coffee, get the kids out to school, I do my research. And I started looking for content on Mike Bloomberg. I stumbled onto one video that discussed this, what they considered to be a racist speech against the second amendment right of African Americans. So obviously there was a conservative spin there. And I followed the words.
They didn’t have video. They didn’t have audio. All the had was a couple of excerpts. And so I typed the excerpts into Google. I mean, this is really basic stuff, right? So if she wants to know how we did it, it’s Research 101. It’s like high school level research that I did to find this. I just took the due diligence of editing the quality of the audio. If you hear the original, it’s very difficult to hear. So I took my time, transcribed it. I put the video together, I cleaned up the audio, and then I spent hours just pushing it to everyone in my network. So as to the reason when, it fell in my lap Monday. The why, because everyone needed to hear it.
Kim Brown: Jaisal, it’s shocking that the so called motives of a black man, an independent journalist are being scrutinized more so than the actual words that came out of Mike Bloomberg’s mouth.
Jaisal Noor: Absolutely. And you just see the differential that an oligarch gets in the media. When we’re talking about the harmful policies he is inflicting on black and brown working people in New York City, hundreds of thousands a year, people whose lives were affected who lived under terror under Bloomberg. And then they’re so easily dismissed by someone, as you mentioned, who worked for Bloomberg. It just gives you more reason to be skeptical of how the corporate media, these big outlets [inaudible 00:05:12] mention that Bloomberg’s already spent $350 million on advertising. He’s bankrolling these networks with advertising. He’s bought his way onto the debate stage. And it just makes you need to be really skeptical of how the media’s portraying this, how the democratic party is dealing with Bloomberg, and just keep a really razor focused lens on his behavior and his record.
Kim Brown: And what’s interesting is as Jaisal said, you have to keep an eye on these corporate media outlets that obviously have interest in supporting someone like a Mike Bloomberg. I mean, we saw this retrospectively from Donald Trump where every cable news outlet would cut to Trump’s rallies live with no sense of critique or no sense of in depth analysis, but then you clip even got Donald Trump’s attention in a since deleted tweet in reaction to your video. Trump said, and I’m paraphrasing here, that Bloomberg, wow, what a total racist. This is almost like the Spider-Man meme. Are these guys pointing directly at each other like, “No, I see you. No, it’s you. I see myself”? So how has that been since Trump got ahold of it, and I’m sure it’s taken off tremendously.
Ben Dixon: Yeah. So I mean, at the point that Trump retweeted it, it was already at 3.4 million, I believe. And now it’s at roughly 8 point … I don’t know. And then if you combined Facebook and Twitter, I’m sorry, Facebook and YouTube, it’s probably over 10, 11, 12 million. And so the president tweeting it out certainly brought more attention to it, but I think the important part is is that … Well, two things. One, he deleted it because he had a lack of self awareness, right? If there’s anybody racist in the conversation, it would be both of them together, because they both agreed on stop and frisk, right? And he promoted it before and I think that that’s why he deleted it, in addition to the fact that if you read down in my thread, I circled around and came around to criticizing Donald Trump as well. So there’s simple reasons why he would’ve deleted that. But then second of all, the President of the United States has no ground to stand on.
Kim Brown: Absolutely. And Michael Bloomberg has since responded via Twitter and a statement posted on his website where he said, “President Trump’s deleted tweet is the latest example of his endless efforts to divide Americans. I inherited the policy practice of stop and frisk and as part of our effort to stop gun violence, it was overused. By the time I left office, I cut it back by 95%, but I should’ve done it faster and sooner. I regret that and I have apologized, and I have taken responsibility for taking too long to understand the impact it had on black and Latino communities.”
So Jaisal, can we count the lies in that statement? Where do we even begin there?
Jaisal Noor: Yeah. Bloomberg is trying to rewrite history. While he did inherit stop and frisk from Giuliani, he greatly accelerated it. He massively expanded several times over. There was about 90,000 stops in Giuliani’s last term. At its peak, it was close to a million people a year under Bloomberg’s term. The reason that stop and frisk was pared down, and he is right that it had to end, it was because of massive protest, massive civil disobedience, and court decisions which found that stop and frisk was unconstitutional, it was racist, and the other thing was it was ineffective. It didn’t work. And once the public was presented with this information, the public opinion turned. The city council stepped in. And so by the end of Bloomberg’s turn, those numbers did go down. But to rewrite history in this way is completely disingenuous.
Kim Brown: And Ben, I’m sure you have been literally bombarded on social media and other places about people who had firsthand experience with these police practice, these policies to stop and frisk, virtually during most of the Bloomberg administration in New York City. Can you tell us about some of the stories that people have told you about how stop and frisk and Michael Bloomberg specifically impacted their lives?
Ben Dixon: Yeah. That’s the thing about this that makes this, this is so much bigger than even his presidential candidacy is the lives that were affected by his decisions, his worldview. The audio really conveys to us that this is something that Michael Bloomberg deeply believes, he’s thought about it, he’s rationalized it, and then when you hear the stories of all the individuals who were hurt by it, you see the magnitude of his thought, of his belief, of his worldview. People have sent me stories about just being a rite of passage as a teenager, they knew that at some point, multiple points, they would be stopped and frisked. It didn’t matter whether they were walking down the street or whether they were in a restaurant. I’ve heard stories of kids being pulled out of bodegas and thrown up against a wall.
And literally the language that Michael Bloomberg used here is the precise language of their procedures of throwing them up against the wall, and those are the stories that I recognize the most, that touch the most, are the kids who remember being thrown up against the wall by these police. And for Michael Bloomberg to say exactly that, that shows you the depth of how much he thought this through. He thought this through from his logical justification for it all the way through the implementation of throwing kids up against a wall. And so his apology does not match up to the depth and consideration that he gave this racist policy.
Kim Brown: And that’s a point that I also wanted to raise with you, because he did say he apologized. He said he has taken responsibility. Has he? And what does that look like? What does Michael Bloomberg taking responsibility for stop and frisk even begin to do some sort of restoration to the communities that were impacted by this? That sounds like shenanigans.
Ben Dixon: Right. The apology, like you stated out, he started the statement. It’s not an apology, it’s a statement. He started it off by pointing to Donald Trump. And I know Donald Trump is a white supremacist in chief. We need to get rid of him in November, absolutely. But he had nothing to do with Michael Bloomberg’s words. Michael Bloomberg has to own this and he did not own it. Yesterday in a press conference, he said that this was five years ago as if that was enough time between then and now to justify or to show that it was so long ago that it’s not as relevant. But more importantly, he said that he did not govern based on this. And I’m like, [inaudible 00:11:47], that’s literally exactly how you govern. What you said in Aspen in 2015 is precisely how you governed down to the tee.
And so yesterday, he showed not only is he not giving, he’s not sincere in his apology, he’s being downright deceitful, right? He’s trying to deflect and be deceitful and say, “Listen, I’ve changed, I’ve grown. That wasn’t …” At the same time, he’s trying to say, “That wasn’t me.” But yes, that was you and what you’re saying now is that you don’t want to take accountability for it. What does it look like? What does he need to do? He has to show us that he has given thought and consideration to how wrong he was to the same extent that he gave consideration in that speech. If you listen to that speech, he thought this thing through, methodically. Logically. Reason. His reasoning there, he took his time and just made a coherent case, a bigoted coherent case in his own mind. And yet he simply says, “I’m sorry, that was a long time ago.”
If what he did and what he said in 2015 were the Atlantic Ocean, his apology is analogous to a cup of water and it’s insufficient.
Kim Brown: Come through, Ben Dixon. So Jaisal, we were talking about how first of all, you can’t turn on television, you can’t cut on the radio, you can’t cut on your social media feed without seeing an ad for Michael Bloomberg. He is spending so much money on this campaign.
Jaisal Noor: A million bucks a day.
Kim Brown: How much?
Jaisal Noor: A million bucks a day on advertisement. On Facebook.
Kim Brown: Just on Facebook alone, right? So had this happened or this particular type of nugget been unearthed of a non billionaire democratic presidential nominees, it would affect them more greater because perhaps their fundraising would take a hit, they would take a hit in the polls. But Michael Bloomberg has the resources to power through-
Jaisal Noor: He’s not doing any fundraising. He’s not accepting money.
Kim Brown: Exactly. But that’s what I mean. He has the resources to power through any type of scandal and keep his political and advertising machine operating as much as it ever was. So what do we think the impact could be here, especially as we head towards South Carolina and ever more so towards Super Tuesday with primary states that are more diverse than Iowa and New Hampshire where this could affect him at the polls?
Jaisal Noor: We know that a lot of people, working people in this country don’t have the time or energy to necessarily keep up with the election, all the candidates. We all know that, we all do what we can. But in Bloomberg’s case, he’s able to flood the airwaves, flood the Internet, flood the radio so much in places where there is no other media presence, there’s no other candidates hitting these states, especially the major Super Tuesday states outside of Texas and California, that he’s up already, he’s gained something like 15 percentage points in the polls among black voters in places like South Carolina. So he’s making a huge impact, just spending all this money, putting out ads saying that he was … making it seem like him and Obama were allies when that’s not the case. He didn’t endorse Obama in 2008 and he attacked him 2012 when he gave him sort of a half endorsement. But this is why it’s important that we have independent journalists like Ben Dixon that are putting this out there, using social media to get the word out, because we know that the corporate media isn’t going to hold him accountable in the ways that are necessary.
Kim Brown: Absolutely. Ben, I wanted to ask you, what impact do you think this will have amongst black democratic primary voters who are not quite in lockstep with any candidate at this point? I don’t think any candidate can claim that they have the black vote in their pocket. Nobody does. Even in 2016, Hillary Clinton could lay claim to a good chunk of the black electorate. That is not the case in 2020. So what does this do for Bloomberg is anything and does this give anybody else a bump?
Ben Dixon: It really depends on the level of saturation of this clip. So yesterday I heard on The Breakfast Club with Charlamagne tha God that they played the clip and they gave him Donkey of the Day. So at that point, when it hit that threshold, I’m like, “Okay, this is saturating down into the culture. This is saturating down into everyone’s everyday life, people who aren’t paying attention to politics.” Now because of that, I would venture to say that he’s going to take a little hit here in the African American vote. Can it compete with the number of ads that he’s running in the Super Tuesday states? I don’t know. We’ll have to see the polling. But the level of saturation of this clip is getting to the point where it can actually have an impact. Who does it benefit? That’s anyone’s guess at this point. There’s been such a good job done against Bernie Sanders with regard to the African American vote even though he’s doing good with the young Millennials. Joe Biden is on his way out. Elizabeth Warren never really scored significantly with the black vote. There’s still room for someone.
I mean, obviously Pete Buttigieg is at zero percent in primary voters, black primary voters. And Amy Klobuchar has a big issue that’s lingering out there in Minneapolis. So I’m not sure who’s going to come in and actually pick up the slack here, but we’ll see.
Kim Brown: Well, I can tell you, Ben, that many close observers of this race are grateful for you bringing this to light. You made the mainstream outlooks look extremely silly, sir. You have possibly done a dent into Michael Bloomberg’s campaign by tweeting it out to your followers. So I mean, on behalf of us as a member of the progressive independent media family, we want to thank you for doing what you did. And we want you to know that it is greatly appreciated and you’ve done a service to this country. So thank you.
Ben Dixon: Oh, wow. Thank you. I appreciate those kind words. Thank you so much.
Kim Brown: You’re welcome. We’ve been speaking with Benjamin P. Dixon. He has a podcast. He has a show that you need to subscribe to. It’s on YouTube. He’s also co-founder of TheNorthstar.com and the co-founder of The Progressive Army. We’ve also been joined in studio with our own correspondent, Jaisal Noor. Jaisal has been reporting extensively on the policies of stop and frisk over the past decade while he was in New York City. So thank you, Ben, and thank you, Jaisal.
Jaisal Noor: And Kim, I would just add that one of Bernie Sanders’ top surrogates is Cornell West, who was an outspoken critic of stop and frisk. He got arrested protesting stop and frisk, and so I would … If the debate moderators don’t ask Bloomberg about stop and frisk, you can be pretty sure that Bernie Sanders is going to bring it up in that next debate, in which Bloomberg was able to buy his way onto, which is right before the Nevada caucus. So this story is not over. I don’t think Bloomberg’s going to be able to put it behind him.
Kim Brown: Okay, guys. We’re going to have to end the conversation there. We’ve been speaking with Ben Dixon and Jaisal Noor and I’m Kim Brown from The Real News Network.
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therealnews--2020-02-14--700,000 Displaced as Syria and Turkey Descend into War

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Greg Wilpert : It ’ s the Real News Network .
I ’ m Greg Wilpert in Baltimore .
War is escalating in Idlib Province of Northwestern Syria .
Recent reports say that over 700,000 people were displaced from their homes due to conflict between Syrian and Turkish forces , which has garnered some attention in global media outlets .
Both the Syrian government headed by President Bashar al-Assad and Turkey , headed by President Recep Erdoğan are allied with Russia .
Now that they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , it seems that the contradictions in Russia ’ s Syria policy has strained to their breaking point .
Meanwhile , in Turkey , President Erdoğan is fanning the flames of war .
Speaker 3 : By the end of February , we are determined to push the regime forces to the lines of the Sochi agreement to beyond our observation posts .
We will do this by any means necessary by air or ground .
Without hesitating , without stalling .
Speaker 3 : If there ’ s the smallest injury to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ other places , I am declaring from here that we will hit the regime forces wherever from today , regardless of the lines of the Sochi agreement or Idlib .
Greg Wilpert : Joining me now to analyze the latest developments in the war between Syria and Turkey is Baris Karaagac .
He is a lecturer in International Development studies at Trent University in Ontario , Canada and he is also the editor of the book Accumulations , Crises , and Struggles : Capital and Labor in Contemporary Capitalism .
Thanks for joining @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Thanks for having me , Greg .
Greg Wilpert : So the rebel forces in… have held Idlib actually since the beginning of the Syrian Civil War , but recently Syrian forces killed at least five Turkish soldiers in Idlib .
Now , how did it happen that outright fighting between the Turkish and the Syrian military in Idlib became possible and that it has received barely any media attention so far ?
Baris : First of all , I would like to say a couple of things about the so-called rebel forces @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are in control over most of the province , including the town of Idlib .
But I think it ’ s important to tell our viewers who these rebel forces are .
The most powerful organization on the ground , in Idlib is called the Hayat Tahrir al Sham , which is a coalition actually of a number of jihadist organizations , but the most powerful , the most prominent one within that coalition is Al Qaeda [ inaudible 00:02:44 ] Syria .
So I think it is important to keep that in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ these soils… these rebel forces that are operating in Idlib .
And secondly , Idlib province was supposed to be one of the four demilitarized originally zones in Syria and then in 2018 there was the Sochi Accord , according to which a zone would be become demilitarized between the rebel forces and the Syrian military .
And there would be a ceasefire .
However , last year Syrian government with the support of Russia has started to start an operation in Idlib .
And now every day , it ’ s increasingly @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this province that includes the 12 observation posts .
It ’ s the setup by Turkish military in the province .
So some of now the these observation posts are in those spaces in that territory that is controlled by Syrian Army with the backing of Russians and this week… Last week eight Turks were killed by the Syrian forces .
Seven of them were military people and one a civilian .
This took place during the arrival of the reinforcements from Turkey to support the already existing Turkish military presence in the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ hear these threats , especially coming from Tayyip Erdogan directed at the Syrian government , but also extending to Russian forces on the ground .
But what is more concerning is that his threats towards the Syrian force , of course , because I don ’ t see it as a likely development the confrontation between the Turkish military and the Russians in Syria .
Greg Wilpert : Hmm .
Now , president Assad has made it… made no secret that he plans to retake all of the rebel controlled territory in Syria @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is a direct result actually of being blocked along the banks of the Euphrates River by Russian forces .
And as you said , it ’ s unlikely that they ’ re going to confront them .
So the question remains , what is the other one trying to achieve in Idlib and is it worth sacrificing his alliance with Russia ?
Baris : Well , first of all , I think this indicates a bankruptcy of Turkish foreign policy regarding Syria .
Before the uprisings began in the Arab world and then @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Erdogan used to be buddies .
They even organize the vacation , so on and so forth .
And then when the uprising began in Syria , Tayyip Erdogan bet on the opposition and his goal was to extend his as well as the Turkish influence over the greater part of the Middle East , especially over the Sunni territories .
But this has completely gone bankrupt .
And then what is happening in Idlib and other parts of Syria .
In the recent years it show this very clearly , but when @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has played and will I think continue to play an important role because in Turkey Tayyip Erdogan ’ s party , the AKP has been in power for a long time .
Recently , it has been in need of the support of the ultra nationalists , or if you will , the neo-fascists at MHP in order to stay in power and implement a number of policies without the interference of the opposition .
So what has been happening in Idlib , especially with the Turkish military people getting killed as important @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , in terms of immobilizing the nationalists , the vote and consolidating the nationalists , the electorates behind Erdogan .
Turkey has been going through a very severe , actually as an economic crisis .
There have been a number of failures when it comes to foreign policy and sooner the policy regarding Libya will be one of a failure .
I ’ m almost certain about it , but it , when it comes to within the borders of Turkey , Idlib has and will play an important role for Erdogan to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ weakened in the past couple of years .
Greg Wilpert : I want to turn to the United… the role of the United States in all of this .
Do you think it ’ s fair to say that the sudden withdrawal of US troops from the region has actually contributed to this escalation ?
And if so , what interests did the US withdrawal serve or is it perhaps in the interest of the US to keep the war in Syria going and to tie up serious allies that is Russia and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , of course the withdrawal of the US troops in 2019 contributed significantly to this outcome .
Now the most powerful power broker in the country is definitely Russia .
So Russia calls the shots to a great extent and I think it will call the shots in the near future as well .
Turkey can not take action against Russia .
Turkey is dependent on this country for natural gas .
And then recently TurkStream became effective operating and Turkey has bought S-400 air defense , a system from Russia instead of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And also there ’ s a trade volume between 20 and 25 billion dollars between the two countries .
So Turkey can not , Turkey will not dare confront Russia on the ground despite all these threats and machismo coming from Tayyip Erdogan .
But now what is interesting is that there was an meeting between the Turkish and US officials yesterday and Turkey is seeking the assistance of the United States in Syria .
But at this point , I don ’ t see anything coming out of this that will change @ @ @ @ @ @ @ outcome of the ongoing process in the Northern part of the country .
Greg Wilpert : Okay .
Well we ’ re going to continue to follow this situation , but we ’ ll leave it there for now .
I was speaking to Baris Karaagac , lecturer in International Development studies of Trent University .
Thanks again Baris for having joined us today .
Baris : Thanks for… Thanks for having me .
It ’ s always a pleasure Greg Wilpert : And thank you for joining the Real News Network .

Syria and Turkey are fighting each other in the rebel-controlled Idlib region, forcing hundreds of thousands to flee for their lives as the bombings intensify.
Story Transcript
GREG WILPERT: It’s the Real News Network. I’m Greg Wilpert in Baltimore.
War is escalating in Idlib Province of Northwestern Syria. Recent reports say that over 700,000 people were displaced from their homes due to conflict between Syrian and Turkish forces, which has garnered some attention in global media outlets. Both the Syrian government headed by President Bashar al-Assad and Turkey, headed by President Recep Erdogan are allied with Russia. Now that they’re directly fighting each other though, it seems that the contradictions in Russia’s Syria policy has strained to their breaking point.
Meanwhile in Turkey, President Erdogan is fanning the flames of war.
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN: By the end of February, we are determined to push the regime forces to the lines of the Sochi agreement to beyond our observation posts. We will do this by any means necessary by air or ground. Without hesitating, without stalling. If there’s the smallest injury to our soldiers on the observation posts or other places, I am declaring from here that we will hit the regime forces wherever from today, regardless of the lines of the Sochi agreement or Idlib.
GREG WILPERT: Joining me now to analyze the latest developments in the war between Syria and Turkey is Baris Karaagac. He is a lecturer in International Development Studies at Trent University in Ontario, Canada and he is also the editor of the book Accumulations, Crises, and Struggles: Capital and Labor in Contemporary Capitalism. Thanks for joining us again, Baris.
BARIS KARAAGAC: Thanks for having me, Greg.
GREG WILPERT: So the rebel forces have held Idlib actually since the beginning of the Syrian Civil War, but recently Syrian forces killed at least five Turkish soldiers in Idlib. Now, how did it happen that outright fighting between the Turkish and the Syrian military in Idlib became possible and that it has received barely any media attention so far?
BARIS KARAAGAC: First of all, I would like to say a couple of things about the so-called rebel forces. Yes, the rebel forces that are in control over most of the province, including the town of Idlib. But I think it’s important to tell our viewers who these rebel forces are. The most powerful organization on the ground, in Idlib is called the Hayat Tahrir al Sham, which is a coalition actually of a number of jihadist organizations, but the most powerful, the most prominent one within that coalition is Al Qaeda in Syria. So I think it is important to keep that in mind when we’re talking about these rebel forces that are operating in Idlib.
And secondly, Idlib province was supposed to be one of the four demilitarized originally zones in Syria and then in 2018 there was the Sochi Accord, according to which a zone would be become demilitarized between the rebel forces and the Syrian military. And there would be a ceasefire. However, last year, the Syrian government with the support of Russia has started to start an operation in Idlib. And now every day, it’s increasingly, it controls a larger part of this province that includes the 12 observation posts. It’s the setup by Turkish military in the province. So some of now these observation posts are in those spaces in that territory that is controlled by Syrian Army with the backing of Russia.
And last week, eight Turks were killed by the Syrian forces. Seven of them were military people and one a civilian. This took place during the arrival of the reinforcements from Turkey to support the already existing Turkish military presence in the Idlib province. Now every day we hear these threats, especially coming from Tayyip Erdogan directed at the Syrian government, but also extending to Russian forces on the ground. But what is more concerning is that his threats towards the Syrian force, of course, because I don’t see it as a likely development the confrontation between the Turkish military and the Russians in Syria.
GREG WILPERT: Hmm. Now, president Assad has made it… made no secret that he plans to retake all of the rebel controlled territory in Syria. And that his focus on Idlib is a direct result actually of being blocked along the banks of the Euphrates River by Russian forces. And as you said, it’s unlikely that they’re going to confront them. So the question remains, what is the other one trying to achieve in Idlib and is it worth sacrificing his alliance with Russia?
BARIS KARAAGAC: Well, first of all, I think this indicates a bankruptcy of Turkish foreign policy regarding Syria. Before the uprisings began in the Arab world and then spread into Syria and Assad and Tayyip Erdogan used to be buddies. They even organize the vacation, so on and so forth. And then when the uprising began in Syria, Tayyip Erdogan bet on the opposition and his goal was to extend his as well as the Turkish influence over the greater part of the Middle East, especially over the Sunni territories. But this has completely gone bankrupt.
And then, what is happening in Idlib and other parts of Syria? In the recent years, it shows this very clearly, but when it comes to domestic politics, Idlib has played and will I think continue to play an important role because in Turkey Tayyip Erdogan’s party, the AKP has been in power for a long time. Recently, it has been in need of the support of the ultra-nationalists, or if you will, the neo-fascists at MHP in order to stay in power and implement a number of policies without the interference of the opposition.
So what has been happening in Idlib, especially with the Turkish military people getting killed, is important; the consequence is that within Turkey, in terms of immobilizing the nationalists, the vote and consolidating the nationalists, the electorates behind Erdogan. Turkey has been going through a very severe, actually as an economic crisis. There have been a number of failures when it comes to foreign policy and sooner the policy regarding Libya will be one of a failure. I’m almost certain about it, but it, when it comes to within the borders of Turkey, Idlib has and will play an important role for Erdogan to consolidate his power base, which has weakened in the past couple of years.
GREG WILPERT: I want to turn to the role of the United States in all of this. Do you think it’s fair to say that the sudden withdrawal of US troops from the region has actually contributed to this escalation? And if so, what interests did the US withdrawal serve or is it perhaps in the interest of the US to keep the war in Syria going and to tie up serious allies that is Russia and Iran in Syria?
BARIS KARAAGAC: Well, of course the withdrawal of the US troops in 2019 contributed significantly to this outcome. Now the most powerful power broker in the country is definitely Russia. So Russia calls the shots to a great extent and I think it will call the shots in the near future as well. Turkey cannot take action against Russia. Turkey is dependent on this country for natural gas. And then recently TurkStream became effective operating and Turkey has bought S-400 air defense, a system from Russia instead of the Patriot from the United States.
And also, there’s a trade volume between 20 and 25 billion dollars between the two countries. So Turkey cannot, Turkey will not dare confront Russia on the ground despite all these threats and machismo coming from Tayyip Erdogan. But now what is interesting is that there was an meeting between the Turkish and US officials yesterday and Turkey is seeking the assistance of the United States in Syria. But at this point, I don’t see anything coming out of this that will change the outcome or the ongoing that… the outcome of the ongoing process in the Northern part of the country.
GREG WILPERT: Okay. Well we’re going to continue to follow this situation, but we’ll leave it there for now. I was speaking to Baris Karaagac, lecturer in International Development Studies of Trent University. Thanks again, Baris, for having joined us today.
BARIS KARAAGAC: Thanks for having me. It’s always a pleasure
GREG WILPERT: And thank you for joining The Real News Network
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therealnews--2020-02-14--Presidential Campaigns Begin in Bolivia Despite Ongoing Repression

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Gregg Wolpert : It ’ s the Real News Network and I ’ m Gregg Wolpert in Arlington , Virginia .
Eleven political parties and presidential candidates launched their campaigns this week for the May 3rd general election .
This upcoming election is meant to make up for the October 20th election of last year , which Bolivia ’ s parliament canceled following the November 10th coup against leftist president Evo Morales .
Morales remains in exile in Argentina and is now running for a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of for the presidency .
His Designated successor , under the banner of the Movement Towards Socialism Party , is Luis Arce , Bolivia ’ s long-time minister of finance under Morales .
His running mate is Morales ’ former foreign minister and indigenous leader , David Choquehuanca .
Here ’ s Luis Arce speaking last Saturday during the campaign launch rally in La Paz .
Luis Arce : Today , we face a historic challenge .
For me to be able to meet this challenge , we aren ’ t just contesting @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
We are an important geopolitical reference point for the region .
The empire wants to set a signal with us .
It wants to bring the Bolivian people to their knees .
Gregg Wolpert : Arce ’ s main opponent is the incoming president Janine Agnes , who took the country on a sharp turn towards the right when she took over the presidency following the coup against Evo Morales .
Bolivia ’ s right is internally quite divided , however , which could give Arce an opportunity to win the election @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Joining me now to discuss the latest developments in Bolivia is Kathryn Ledebur .
She is the director of the Andean information Network and a researcher , activist and analyst with over two decades of experience in Bolivia .
Thanks for joining us again , Kathryn .
Kathryn Ledebur : Thanks so much for having me , Gregg .
Gregg Wolpert : Let ’ s start with the campaign .
Evo Morales ’ MAS party with the candidates Luis Arce and David Choquehuanca running for president and vice-president held a massive campaign rally @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Cochabamba .
What can you tell us about these campaign rallies and their significance ?
Kathryn Ledebur : I think they ’ re very insignificant because it really shows that grassroots support for MAS .
There was a lot of criticism or suggestion on the part of the right that large attendance at MAS rallies was due to public employees that were forced to attend when MAS was in government .
We see , for example , the rally outside Cochabamba and Sacaba , huge attendance and taking into account that the Agnes @ @ @ @ @ @ @ mopped the floors in all different government offices .
It really clearly shows there ’ s a lot of grassroots support for MAS , there ’ s a lot of support , there ’ s a lot of concern at the same time , about this very far right turn , this erratic behavior , this repressive behavior on the part of the Agnes government on all levels of public administration and attacks against MAS .
It ’ s a swing and a momentum that the coup had , we can see is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ very uncomfortable , for the most part , with the behavior of this government .
Also very uncomfortable because Agnes had promised , remember she has no constitutional right to be president of Bolivia , but she had promised to come in as an interim president and call elections and she has now announced her own candidacy .
I think it ’ s important for everyone to remember that Bolivia had an interim government , the government of Eduardo Rodriguez , they ’ ll say who just called elections , didn ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ carry out any policy changes .
We have a successful model in Bolivia in 2005 for that and it ’ s very clear that what Agnes and her crew are doing is very worrisome and very different .
Gregg Wolpert : Yeah .
I want to dig a little bit deeper on that issue , but just to add a little bit more to the background , after the October 20th election that Evo Morales led with a 10.5 % advantage over his nearest rival , Carlos Mesa , it was ultimately canceled @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , the organization of American States supported the fraud claim and the military and police called on Morales to resign , which he did on November 10th .
And since then , there have been many reports and what you ’ ve been talking about , how the Agnes government cracked down on Morales and his supporters and here she ’ s reversing all of his policies even though , as you said , it ’ s supposed to be a caretaker government .
Now , what ’ s the mood like in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and candidates actually free to campaign ?
Kathryn Ledebur : That remains to be seen .
I think it ’ s pretty important to highlight that Arce returned to the country to begin his campaign and he was given a legal citation with potential charges at the airport .
He had a hearing the next day where it was clear that the detention or the charges and the citation were illegal at that point in time .
A MAS congressperson had her phone confiscated , it ’ s not clear what are happening @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Morales ’ personal secretary and other officials have been arrested for sedition with no evidence of sedition , terrorism .
The arbitrary detentions that block the registry of candidates , all sorts of pressure and supervision and very abrasive discourse is on the part of Agnes ’ officials , it ’ s not clear how it ’ s going to play out and how freely MAS candidates will be able to run their campaigns .
The international community asked for free and fair elections and those conditions right now , I would say @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Wolpert : I just want to turn to a brief look at the candidates .
What do the two main candidates , Luis Arce of MAS and right-wing president Janine Agnes stand for and how much popularity does each enjoy at the moment according to the most recent polls ?
Kathryn Ledebur : I think that it ’ s important to note that Agnes ’ initial popularity with some of the middle classes and the upper middle classes has deteriorated as it has become clear that her aspirations are far beyond an interim @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of corruption , relatives in the government , irregular activities and as her government has carried out a very repressive discourse , has been stimulating arbitrary detentions , it does not seem to have a good understanding of basic human rights or due process norms nor do they respect the criteria of international human rights monitor and they have consistently attacked Bolivian human rights defenders .
I would say that her credibility , which in my opinion , was always extremely limited , has eroded significantly and she also faces criticism from the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Luis Arce , on the other hand , has a long reputation with his tenure as finance minister .
He oversaw a fiscal policy that led to the highest growth rates of Bolivia .
Bolivia had one of the highest growth rates for the past year in the entire region , higher than the United States , a strong amount of foreign reserves , which have diminished with the reduction in hydrocarbon prices , but it is allowed Bolivia to weather and maintain economic stability when other nations like Argentina have faced @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at a candidate that MAS has chosen with an ability to appeal to the middle-class , an ability to appeal to a return to stability and to be offset with strong representation from Bolivian social movements and indigenous groups that support MAS on the part of a very skilled David Choquehuanca .
Gregg Wolpert : I find it interesting that Evo Morales chose Luis Arce to be the candidate of MAS .
On the one hand , certainly , like you said , he was responsible for the very successful economic situation of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , he doesn ’ t seem very charismatic , at least from that clip that we saw earlier .
What do you think ?
Is that going to be an issue ?
Kathryn Ledebur : It ’ s not clear .
We ’ ll see .
I think at the feeling , and I ’ m certainly was not privy to the internal discussions and debates within MAS , which continue to be active , which continue to have different points of views that are constantly negotiated , is that after this period @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , we ’ ve had four months of uncertainty , conflict and instability in Bolivia , that I think the idea was to go for an option that would project stability , would definitely be a change from the image and the political style of Morales , but a continuation of the economic policies and the vision that gains stalwart support for MAS .
So it remains to be seen , strategically , what works here .
Some people perceive Agnes as very charismatic .
I don ’ t agree with that , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to understand that there ’ s a lot more than charisma involved in this race .
There ’ s a lot more at stake .
We ’ ve seen Bolivia ’ s outward economic outlook downgraded consistently because of the uncertainty and we ’ re seeing a lot of the criticisms and the coup denials on the part of the Agnes government and her backers really deteriorating as the situation continues to be incredibly precarious .
Gregg Wolpert : Actually I wanted to return also to the issue of the October 20th election @ @ @ @ @ @ @ riddled with fraud .
Now , the claim served , of course , for the opposition as the main argument for overthrowing even Morales and the OAS chimed in by presenting an election report that solidified the fraud claim .
However , the Center for Economic and Policy Research has done a detailed analysis of the report , which debunks for a large extent and we ’ ll do a followup report that is on that analysis that CEPR has conducted as soon as the final analysis comes out , but what I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ October 20th election at all still an issue in Bolivia itself ?
And is it going to have an impact also on the fairness and transparency of the upcoming election ?
Kathryn Ledebur : Right now , I feel like the Bolivians are still in emergency mode .
There ’ s a lack of clarity about the elections , it ’ ll be interesting to see what the followup report suggest , but really , a moment of extreme conflict , although the bullets have stopped flying , that there ’ s a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ It ’ s interesting to know that the electronic problems with the rapid count here are very similar to the problems that existed in the Iowa caucus electronic monitoring .
I think there are many parallels between political developments in both countries , but it ’ s not clear and I think that ’ s going to be an issue that is going to come up again as soon as the fires are out or as , hopefully , Bolivia will return to a country with rule of law , respect for basic @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s very interesting to note that the opposition , although , now , the Agnes government and right-wing allies criticize the election results but yet did not participate in the OAS audit .
They jumped on the OAS results , but yet they ’ ve been extremely critical and unaccepting of the Inter-American Commission , another OAS , organism , findings on human rights violations and even extraditional executions and Bolivia .
I feel that they pick and choose the findings of an international organism and although the Bolivian government has signed to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the results .
It ’ s important that an Inter-American Commission expert group arrive in the country soon because right at this point in time , there are still a great deal of human rights violations going on and no consistent external monitoring .
Gregg Wolpert : Hm .
I find the point that you raised about Iowa quite interesting , considering that also , the parallel is really quite amazing considering that they stopped the vote count just like in Bolivia , except in Bolivia , of course , this led to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the entire vote .
In the US , it was considered to be not that such a big deal and they were allowed to continue with the final result .
Anyway , we ’ re going to have to leave it there for now , but we ’ re going to continue to follow the campaign leading up to the May 3rd election .
There ’ s still lots of time until that happens , but we ’ re going to continue to follow it .
I was speaking to Kathryn Ledebur , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Cochabamba , Bolivia .
Thanks again , Kathryn , for having joined us today .
Kathryn Ledebur : Thanks so much for having me .
Gregg Wolpert : And thank you for joining the Real News Network .

As campaigning begins to repeat the Oct. 20 election that ended in a coup against former President Evo Morales, it remains far from certain whether this new election, under right-wing President Jeanine Añez, will be free and fair.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Gregg Wolpert: It’s the Real News Network and I’m Gregg Wolpert in Arlington, Virginia. Eleven political parties and presidential candidates launched their campaigns this week for the May 3rd general election. This upcoming election is meant to make up for the October 20th election of last year, which Bolivia’s parliament canceled following the November 10th coup against leftist president Evo Morales. Morales remains in exile in Argentina and is now running for a seat in Bolivia’s senate instead of for the presidency. His Designated successor, under the banner of the Movement Towards Socialism Party, is Luis Arce, Bolivia’s long-time minister of finance under Morales. His running mate is Morales’ former foreign minister and indigenous leader, David Choquehuanca. Here’s Luis Arce speaking last Saturday during the campaign launch rally in La Paz.
Luis Arce: Today, we face a historic challenge. For me to be able to meet this challenge, we aren’t just contesting an election. We are contesting more. We are an important geopolitical reference point for the region. The empire wants to set a signal with us. It wants to bring the Bolivian people to their knees.
Gregg Wolpert: Arce’s main opponent is the incoming president Janine Agnes, who took the country on a sharp turn towards the right when she took over the presidency following the coup against Evo Morales. Bolivia’s right is internally quite divided, however, which could give Arce an opportunity to win the election if it is a fair election. Joining me now to discuss the latest developments in Bolivia is Kathryn Ledebur. She is the director of the Andean information Network and a researcher, activist and analyst with over two decades of experience in Bolivia. Thanks for joining us again, Kathryn.
Kathryn Ledebur: Thanks so much for having me, Gregg.
Gregg Wolpert: Let’s start with the campaign. Evo Morales’ MAS party with the candidates Luis Arce and David Choquehuanca running for president and vice-president held a massive campaign rally also on Sunday in the town of Cochabamba. What can you tell us about these campaign rallies and their significance?
Kathryn Ledebur: I think they’re very insignificant because it really shows that grassroots support for MAS. There was a lot of criticism or suggestion on the part of the right that large attendance at MAS rallies was due to public employees that were forced to attend when MAS was in government. We see, for example, the rally outside Cochabamba and Sacaba, huge attendance and taking into account that the Agnes government has changed even the people who mopped the floors in all different government offices. It really clearly shows there’s a lot of grassroots support for MAS, there’s a lot of support, there’s a lot of concern at the same time, about this very far right turn, this erratic behavior, this repressive behavior on the part of the Agnes government on all levels of public administration and attacks against MAS. It’s a swing and a momentum that the coup had, we can see is deteriorating and people are beginning to become very uncomfortable, for the most part, with the behavior of this government.
Also very uncomfortable because Agnes had promised, remember she has no constitutional right to be president of Bolivia, but she had promised to come in as an interim president and call elections and she has now announced her own candidacy. I think it’s important for everyone to remember that Bolivia had an interim government, the government of Eduardo Rodriguez, they’ll say who just called elections, didn’t carry out repression, didn’t carry out any policy changes. We have a successful model in Bolivia in 2005 for that and it’s very clear that what Agnes and her crew are doing is very worrisome and very different.
Gregg Wolpert: Yeah. I want to dig a little bit deeper on that issue, but just to add a little bit more to the background, after the October 20th election that Evo Morales led with a 10.5% advantage over his nearest rival, Carlos Mesa, it was ultimately canceled because the opposition claimed fraud. Now, the organization of American States supported the fraud claim and the military and police called on Morales to resign, which he did on November 10th. And since then, there have been many reports and what you’ve been talking about, how the Agnes government cracked down on Morales and his supporters and here she’s reversing all of his policies even though, as you said, it’s supposed to be a caretaker government. Now, what’s the mood like in Bolivia in general? Are MAS supporters and candidates actually free to campaign?
Kathryn Ledebur: That remains to be seen. I think it’s pretty important to highlight that Arce returned to the country to begin his campaign and he was given a legal citation with potential charges at the airport. He had a hearing the next day where it was clear that the detention or the charges and the citation were illegal at that point in time. A MAS congressperson had her phone confiscated, it’s not clear what are happening with the charges in that case, Morales’ personal secretary and other officials have been arrested for sedition with no evidence of sedition, terrorism. The arbitrary detentions that block the registry of candidates, all sorts of pressure and supervision and very abrasive discourse is on the part of Agnes’ officials, it’s not clear how it’s going to play out and how freely MAS candidates will be able to run their campaigns. The international community asked for free and fair elections and those conditions right now, I would say, are iffy at best.
Gregg Wolpert: I just want to turn to a brief look at the candidates. What do the two main candidates, Luis Arce of MAS and right-wing president Janine Agnes stand for and how much popularity does each enjoy at the moment according to the most recent polls?
Kathryn Ledebur: I think that it’s important to note that Agnes’ initial popularity with some of the middle classes and the upper middle classes has deteriorated as it has become clear that her aspirations are far beyond an interim presidency as there have been clear denunciations of corruption, relatives in the government, irregular activities and as her government has carried out a very repressive discourse, has been stimulating arbitrary detentions, it does not seem to have a good understanding of basic human rights or due process norms nor do they respect the criteria of international human rights monitor and they have consistently attacked Bolivian human rights defenders.
I would say that her credibility, which in my opinion, was always extremely limited, has eroded significantly and she also faces criticism from the wide array of candidates on the right. Luis Arce, on the other hand, has a long reputation with his tenure as finance minister. He oversaw a fiscal policy that led to the highest growth rates of Bolivia. Bolivia had one of the highest growth rates for the past year in the entire region, higher than the United States, a strong amount of foreign reserves, which have diminished with the reduction in hydrocarbon prices, but it is allowed Bolivia to weather and maintain economic stability when other nations like Argentina have faced the crisis.
We’re looking at a candidate that MAS has chosen with an ability to appeal to the middle-class, an ability to appeal to a return to stability and to be offset with strong representation from Bolivian social movements and indigenous groups that support MAS on the part of a very skilled David Choquehuanca.
Gregg Wolpert: I find it interesting that Evo Morales chose Luis Arce to be the candidate of MAS. On the one hand, certainly, like you said, he was responsible for the very successful economic situation of Bolivia, but on the other hand, he doesn’t seem very charismatic, at least from that clip that we saw earlier. What do you think? Is that going to be an issue?
Kathryn Ledebur: It’s not clear. We’ll see. I think at the feeling, and I’m certainly was not privy to the internal discussions and debates within MAS, which continue to be active, which continue to have different points of views that are constantly negotiated, is that after this period of torment and this period of uncertainty, we’ve had four months of uncertainty, conflict and instability in Bolivia, that I think the idea was to go for an option that would project stability, would definitely be a change from the image and the political style of Morales, but a continuation of the economic policies and the vision that gains stalwart support for MAS.
So it remains to be seen, strategically, what works here. Some people perceive Agnes as very charismatic. I don’t agree with that, but I think the people are beginning to understand that there’s a lot more than charisma involved in this race. There’s a lot more at stake. We’ve seen Bolivia’s outward economic outlook downgraded consistently because of the uncertainty and we’re seeing a lot of the criticisms and the coup denials on the part of the Agnes government and her backers really deteriorating as the situation continues to be incredibly precarious.
Gregg Wolpert: Actually I wanted to return also to the issue of the October 20th election, which was claimed to have been riddled with fraud. Now, the claim served, of course, for the opposition as the main argument for overthrowing even Morales and the OAS chimed in by presenting an election report that solidified the fraud claim. However, the Center for Economic and Policy Research has done a detailed analysis of the report, which debunks for a large extent and we’ll do a followup report that is on that analysis that CEPR has conducted as soon as the final analysis comes out, but what I wanted to ask you, is that October 20th election at all still an issue in Bolivia itself? And is it going to have an impact also on the fairness and transparency of the upcoming election?
Kathryn Ledebur: Right now, I feel like the Bolivians are still in emergency mode. There’s a lack of clarity about the elections, it’ll be interesting to see what the followup report suggest, but really, a moment of extreme conflict, although the bullets have stopped flying, that there’s a real focus on the upcoming elections. It’s interesting to know that the electronic problems with the rapid count here are very similar to the problems that existed in the Iowa caucus electronic monitoring. I think there are many parallels between political developments in both countries, but it’s not clear and I think that’s going to be an issue that is going to come up again as soon as the fires are out or as, hopefully, Bolivia will return to a country with rule of law, respect for basic human rights.
I think it’s very interesting to note that the opposition, although, now, the Agnes government and right-wing allies criticize the election results but yet did not participate in the OAS audit. They jumped on the OAS results, but yet they’ve been extremely critical and unaccepting of the Inter-American Commission, another OAS, organism, findings on human rights violations and even extraditional executions and Bolivia. I feel that they pick and choose the findings of an international organism and although the Bolivian government has signed to allow this study, they constantly reject the results. It’s important that an Inter-American Commission expert group arrive in the country soon because right at this point in time, there are still a great deal of human rights violations going on and no consistent external monitoring.
Gregg Wolpert: Hm. I find the point that you raised about Iowa quite interesting, considering that also, the parallel is really quite amazing considering that they stopped the vote count just like in Bolivia, except in Bolivia, of course, this led to a coup and to a nullification of the entire vote. In the US, it was considered to be not that such a big deal and they were allowed to continue with the final result.
Anyway, we’re going to have to leave it there for now, but we’re going to continue to follow the campaign leading up to the May 3rd election. There’s still lots of time until that happens, but we’re going to continue to follow it. I was speaking to Kathryn Ledebur, director of the Andean Information Network in Cochabamba, Bolivia. Thanks again, Kathryn, for having joined us today.
Kathryn Ledebur: Thanks so much for having me.
Gregg Wolpert: And thank you for joining the Real News Network.
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