therealnews--2020-06-26--How Is Biden Different From Trump When It Comes To Palestine?

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Marc Steiner : Welcome to the Real News .
I ’ m Marc Steiner .
It ’ s great to have you all with us .
100 progressive Jewish Arab American faith-based organizations called on Joe Biden to support full equality for Palestinian rights .
This came on the heels of Joe Biden announcing last month that if elected , he would keep the US Embassy in Jerusalem in violation of international law and everything even the Obama administration stood for .
Now , Biden @ @ @ @ @ @ @ country , he ’ s right about that .
His response though is to support Israel with military aid , sanctions on Iran , fighting the BDS movement , and any movement that criticizes Israel and stands for Palestinian rights .
He ’ s supposed to be incorporating some of Sander ’ s platform into his , clearly not when it comes to Israel .
Now , we welcome Ariel Gold , who is CODEPINK ’ s national co-director , who ’ s traveled to Israel and Palestine to support Palestinian rights until @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s published in the Forward , Huffington Post , Tikkun , Truthout , Mondoweiss , many other publications .
Ariel Gold , welcome back to Real News .
It ’ s a pleasure to have you with us .
Ariel Gold : Thanks so much for having me on .
Marc Steiner : First , tell us what ’ s the genesis of this letter , this hundred and plus organizations sent to Biden .
How did that start ?
Did CODEPINK start that ?
Ariel Gold : Well , we were @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 50 national organizations calling for a more principled and progressive foreign policy , calling on Joe Biden and President Trump to adopt a more principled and just foreign policy .
And this covered broad issues , Yemen , ending the US relationship with the Saudis , ending sanctions on Iran , et cetera , et cetera .
And so we were inspired by that , to narrow it specifically on Palestine , and to list exactly what a just and principled policy towards the apartheid government of Israel and the Palestinian struggle looks @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that Biden finally came out against the annexation .
Only last week .
That only brings him up to par with Chuck Schumer , Ben Cardin , some of the most pro-Israel people .
His remark against annexation last week was so mealy mouthed .
The extent of what he said was “ I do not support annexation , ” yet his campaign , his policy advisor has said that Biden would not condition aid to Israel on anything even annexation .
So he is like back in the 1980s with his head @ @ @ @ @ @ @ did , as you said , he indicated to the movement that was built during the Sanders campaign that he would be integrating some of those .
And yet instead , he has actually to the right of where the Obama administration was .
He has said that unlike the Obama administration , if elected president , he will keep all disagreements with Israeli policies private .
So let ’ s assume that annexation doesn ’ t happen next month , or let ’ s just assume that it ’ s done out @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that takes place with Biden in office , he wouldn ’ t even criticize them publicly ?
Marc Steiner : I mean , let ’ s talk about what you think might be happening here .
Public opinion is changing , I mean , slowly , but it ’ s changing significantly around Israel and Palestine , especially among younger voters and even inside the Jewish community , especially among younger voters and younger people in Jewish community .
While Biden is taking this position as kind of to the right of much @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has the most right wing neofascist elements behind him , as well as those same elements that are part of Zionism in the right wing that are backing him .
So let ’ s talk about the politics at play here .
I mean , it still made them [ inaudible 00:04:10 ] still look at being anti-Israel as a third rail in politics , right ?
That ’ s how people perceive it .
Ariel Gold : It ’ s not as much of a third rail as it used to be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you think is at play here , though ?
I mean , why do you think , when you have Bernie Sanders speaking in front of J street , talking against the annexation , talking he would use the $ 3 billion as leverage to stop Israel from annexing Palestinian land and more .
I mean , what do you think is the political force that would play here inside the Democrats at this moment ?
Ariel Gold : I think Joe Biden is behaving incredibly tone deaf .
This is not the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to show that he can be almost as hawkish as Donald Trump .
Just the other day , he attacked Venezuela , going after Maduro and saying that he wouldn ’ t meet with him under any circumstances .
Which is again , he ’ s trying to out Trump Trump .
And he ’ s trying to do that on the question of Israel , Palestine .
And you wonder , has he been hiding in a cave these past few years and hasn ’ t seen that lawmakers don ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , or has he not seen the most recent Washington Post poll that says that 67 % of Americans support questioning the US relationship with Israel .
And if you look at just Democrats , it ’ s 81 % .
So he is incredibly out of touch here .
You talked about the change in public opinion , and it ’ s so pronounced among young Jews .
And we just see these growth of progressive Jewish organizations , like the youth [ inaudible 00:05:50 ] of Jewish Voice for Peace or @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for Peace action are signers on the letter .
Ariel Gold : But this is really where the trend is .
This is the future , and Biden needs to get on board .
Marc Steiner : So when you say , he has to get on board… I mean , when I looked at his platform earlier this morning in preparation for our conversation today , there ’ s still that line in there about the best three billion dollar investment we make is the… talking about military aid to Israel , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the note he has there on the site where he talks to Jews and when he talks about Israel .
So the question becomes… I ’ m curious what you think , given the power of this right wing nationalist racist threat under Trump and the struggle that you ’ re working on now , that people are working on now around Israel and Palestine in this democratic platform .
I mean , what do you think is going to happen ?
What do you think is going to… What will it boil @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the convening of the democratic convention , what ’ s in the platform , how you approach Israel , what we talk about the annexation ?
I mean , do you think that ’ s going to play a role inside this democratic convention and part of this coming election ?
Ariel Gold : We certainly hope so .
We invited and released that atrocious and offensive statement , because it really was nothing other than atrocious and offensive .
He was trying to reassure Jews in the face of growing antisemitism , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that we ’ re seeing daily , that was just a stabbing of a Jewish man .
He begins that statement by telling American Jews that they can see that he ’ s behind them because he supports Israel .
But American Jews are not Israel , and we do not appreciate being conflated .
Support for American Jews is about fighting antisemitism .
And fighting antisemitism means that we have to simultaneously fight for Black lives , we have to fight Islamophobia , we have to fight anti-immigration sentiment .
All of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ fact , the antisemitic conspiracy theories are often connected to these other organizations… or , sorry , these other movements , our struggles are connected .
So for Biden simply to say , “ I prove my support for American Jews because I want billions of dollars to go to Israel , ” is contrary to American Jewish opinion and values here in the US .
Right now , the majority of American Jews support Black Lives Matter , and so many young American Jews are out on the streets right now .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ our struggles are connected , because fighting antisemitism is part of fighting for racial justice , and it ’ s also part of fighting for Palestinian rights .
Marc Steiner : I mean , as you pointed out those things very clear For people who really follow this closely or have been involved in it for years , that Biden seems to believe the only thing that matters to US Jews is Israel , which is clearly not true , as you were just pointing out .
And that he also conflates this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the… if you don ’ t do it , then you ’ re antisemitic .
This is the conflation that ’ s taking place .
And it ’ s based on the premise that Israel is the safe haven for Jews .
Though , you , if I ’ m saying it right , were banned from going back into Israel .
Am I right about that ?
Yeah .
Ariel Gold : Israel is not too fond of me .
[ inaudible 00:09:37 ] Israel that I was trying to go to… @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Israel controls those borders .
Israel is not a safe haven for Jews .
Israel is an incredibly repressive state that has in the past years , in the past decades , been moving further and further to the right , in this past year of election madness that Israel underwent .
At times , we had parties that are so racist running that the party is commonly referred to as the Jewish KKK .
American Jews in contrast are increasingly and incredibly , historically , incredibly liberal .
We are right @ @ @ @ @ @ @ which really comes down to the US , and this is another dangerous , dangerous moment .
The Middle East could easily erupt in violence from this , just as pulling out of the Iran nuclear deal was so dangerous , and moving the US embassy was so dangerous .
What we need from Biden right now is to be a leader in the other direction for him to differentiate himself from the policies of the Trump administration , for him to support H.R .
2407 , the legislation to end Israeli military @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And that ’ s one of the things that we call for in the letter , it ’ s a letter both to Biden and to Trump .
And we ’ re calling for very specific things , supporting this legislation , support for conditioning US military aid , adherence to US laws like the lady law .
And even repeal of Israel ’ s nation state law which is inside the boundaries of Israel proper , but really sets up a system of… or cement the system inside Israel of Jews being @ @ @ @ @ @ @ who have citizenship .
Marc Steiner : So let me finally close with this .
Let me see if there ’ s room here for some broad coalition and how you view that .
I mean , if you look at what happened in response to the annexation moves , one that [ inaudible 00:12:03 ] whole government in Israel , thousands of Israelis came to the streets .
There ’ s social distancing , but Israelis , Palestinians , and Jews coming together from everywhere from left-wing Zionists to the most revolutionary @ @ @ @ @ @ @ some Jews .
There was this huge coalition of people out in the streets saying no to annexation .
And the same kind of movement exists here in many ways , though it ’ s not really coalesced between people who are Zionists on the left , to people who are on the left and liberals in America who are saying no to annexation , there has to be full Palestinian rights .
So what can be built that actually has an effect , both on the democratic party here and on politics @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Israel who are saying the exact same thing… Israel ?
Palestine , I should say , that are saying the exact same thing ?
Ariel Gold : Well , I like that we are placing the building blocks , and that we ’ re thinking of a broad tent .
Thanks very much to the work of J Street and some other more moderate , I might call them liberal , organizations .
Most of the Democrats have made statements against annexation , even those who are known for being the closest with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ like I said , Biden ’ s in that category , but this is a building block so we have this opposition to annexation and now we need it to be moved into real action .
We need it to really translate into what a solution looks like as the two-state solution has been dead for so long .
And we need to make it concrete , such things like H.R .
2407 , such things like ending the blockade of Gaza .
Really concrete moves .
And it ’ s so encouraging @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for so long , the Israeli peace movement seemed almost nonexistent .
I hope that they ’ re in for the long haul because this could get really messy , and we ’ re going to need to support the Palestinians that are protesting right now in the Jordan Valley .
We ’ re going to need to support them here , and we ’ re going to need our members of Congress and our presidential candidates to come out and speak up and take concrete action .
Marc Steiner : Well , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a pleasure to talk to you .
There ’ s so much more to explore here .
Maybe we ’ ll do it another time .
Sometimes I think when I look at the annexation , [ inaudible 00:14:33 ] will actually carry that out , it could actually end the two-state solution altogether .
As some of my friends in Palestine and Israel had been saying , they launch a whole new struggle .
But we ’ ll see .
And I appreciate all the work that you do , and for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Ariel Gold : Thanks so much for having me on .
Marc Steiner : Always a pleasure .
Ariel Gold has been our guest and I ’ m Marc Steiner , here for Real News Network .
Please let us know what you think , write to us , tell us , and we ’ ll respond to you .
Take care out there and stay safe .

Biden pledges to keep the U.S. embassy in Jerusalem, boasts of “unstinting support” for Israel, promises to fight the BDS movement and send military aid, and spins it as a way to somehow fight anti-Semitism in the U.S.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Marc Steiner: Welcome to the Real News. I’m Marc Steiner. It’s great to have you all with us. 100 progressive Jewish Arab American faith-based organizations called on Joe Biden to support full equality for Palestinian rights. This came on the heels of Joe Biden announcing last month that if elected, he would keep the US Embassy in Jerusalem in violation of international law and everything even the Obama administration stood for.
Now, Biden blames Trump for encouraging antisemitism in this country, he’s right about that. His response though is to support Israel with military aid, sanctions on Iran, fighting the BDS movement, and any movement that criticizes Israel and stands for Palestinian rights. He’s supposed to be incorporating some of Sander’s platform into his, clearly not when it comes to Israel.
Now, we welcome Ariel Gold, who is CODEPINK’s national co-director, who’s traveled to Israel and Palestine to support Palestinian rights until she was banned in 2018. She’s published in the Forward, Huffington Post, Tikkun, Truthout, Mondoweiss, many other publications. Ariel Gold, welcome back to Real News. It’s a pleasure to have you with us.
Ariel Gold: Thanks so much for having me on.
Marc Steiner: First, tell us what’s the genesis of this letter, this hundred and plus organizations sent to Biden. How did that start? Did CODEPINK start that?
Ariel Gold: Well, we were inspired by another letter sent by over 50 national organizations calling for a more principled and progressive foreign policy, calling on Joe Biden and President Trump to adopt a more principled and just foreign policy. And this covered broad issues, Yemen, ending the US relationship with the Saudis, ending sanctions on Iran, et cetera, et cetera. And so we were inspired by that, to narrow it specifically on Palestine, and to list exactly what a just and principled policy towards the apartheid government of Israel and the Palestinian struggle looks like. It was just last week that Biden finally came out against the annexation. Only last week. That only brings him up to par with Chuck Schumer, Ben Cardin, some of the most pro-Israel people.
His remark against annexation last week was so mealy mouthed. The extent of what he said was “I do not support annexation,” yet his campaign, his policy advisor has said that Biden would not condition aid to Israel on anything even annexation. So he is like back in the 1980s with his head stuck in the sand. And he did, as you said, he indicated to the movement that was built during the Sanders campaign that he would be integrating some of those. And yet instead, he has actually to the right of where the Obama administration was. He has said that unlike the Obama administration, if elected president, he will keep all disagreements with Israeli policies private.
So let’s assume that annexation doesn’t happen next month, or let’s just assume that it’s done out in pieces, and so some of that takes place with Biden in office, he wouldn’t even criticize them publicly?
Marc Steiner: I mean, let’s talk about what you think might be happening here. Public opinion is changing, I mean, slowly, but it’s changing significantly around Israel and Palestine, especially among younger voters and even inside the Jewish community, especially among younger voters and younger people in Jewish community. While Biden is taking this position as kind of to the right of much of US public opinion, Trump clearly has the most right wing neofascist elements behind him, as well as those same elements that are part of Zionism in the right wing that are backing him. So let’s talk about the politics at play here. I mean, it still made them [inaudible 00:04:10] still look at being anti-Israel as a third rail in politics, right? That’s how people perceive it.
Ariel Gold: It’s not as much of a third rail as it used to be.
Marc Steiner: So what do you think is at play here, though? I mean, why do you think, when you have Bernie Sanders speaking in front of J street, talking against the annexation, talking he would use the $3 billion as leverage to stop Israel from annexing Palestinian land and more. I mean, what do you think is the political force that would play here inside the Democrats at this moment?
Ariel Gold: I think Joe Biden is behaving incredibly tone deaf. This is not the only instance where he’s trying to show that he can be almost as hawkish as Donald Trump. Just the other day, he attacked Venezuela, going after Maduro and saying that he wouldn’t meet with him under any circumstances. Which is again, he’s trying to out Trump Trump. And he’s trying to do that on the question of Israel, Palestine. And you wonder, has he been hiding in a cave these past few years and hasn’t seen that lawmakers don’t want to show their face at AIPAC, or has he not seen the most recent Washington Post poll that says that 67% of Americans support questioning the US relationship with Israel. And if you look at just Democrats, it’s 81%. So he is incredibly out of touch here.
You talked about the change in public opinion, and it’s so pronounced among young Jews. And we just see these growth of progressive Jewish organizations, like the youth [inaudible 00:05:50] of Jewish Voice for Peace or IfNotNow. Both IfNotNow and Jewish Voice for Peace action are signers on the letter.
Marc Steiner: I noticed.
Ariel Gold: But this is really where the trend is. This is the future, and Biden needs to get on board.
Marc Steiner: So when you say, he has to get on board… I mean, when I looked at his platform earlier this morning in preparation for our conversation today, there’s still that line in there about the best three billion dollar investment we make is the… talking about military aid to Israel, that’s still there inside in the note he has there on the site where he talks to Jews and when he talks about Israel.
So the question becomes… I’m curious what you think, given the power of this right wing nationalist racist threat under Trump and the struggle that you’re working on now, that people are working on now around Israel and Palestine in this democratic platform. I mean, what do you think is going to happen? What do you think is going to… What will it boil down to here when it comes to the convening of the democratic convention, what’s in the platform, how you approach Israel, what we talk about the annexation? I mean, do you think that’s going to play a role inside this democratic convention and part of this coming election?
Ariel Gold: We certainly hope so. We invited and released that atrocious and offensive statement, because it really was nothing other than atrocious and offensive. He was trying to reassure Jews in the face of growing antisemitism, which is a genuine and real threat that we’re seeing daily, that was just a stabbing of a Jewish man.
He begins that statement by telling American Jews that they can see that he’s behind them because he supports Israel. But American Jews are not Israel, and we do not appreciate being conflated. Support for American Jews is about fighting antisemitism. And fighting antisemitism means that we have to simultaneously fight for Black lives, we have to fight Islamophobia, we have to fight anti-immigration sentiment. All of these are connected, and, in fact, the antisemitic conspiracy theories are often connected to these other organizations… or, sorry, these other movements, our struggles are connected.
So for Biden simply to say, “I prove my support for American Jews because I want billions of dollars to go to Israel,” is contrary to American Jewish opinion and values here in the US. Right now, the majority of American Jews support Black Lives Matter, and so many young American Jews are out on the streets right now. They’re on the streets because our struggles are connected, because fighting antisemitism is part of fighting for racial justice, and it’s also part of fighting for Palestinian rights.
Marc Steiner: I mean, as you pointed out those things very clear For people who really follow this closely or have been involved in it for years, that Biden seems to believe the only thing that matters to US Jews is Israel, which is clearly not true, as you were just pointing out. And that he also conflates this kind of demand to support Israel with the… if you don’t do it, then you’re antisemitic. This is the conflation that’s taking place. And it’s based on the premise that Israel is the safe haven for Jews. Though, you, if I’m saying it right, were banned from going back into Israel. Am I right about that? Yeah.
Ariel Gold: Israel is not too fond of me. [inaudible 00:09:37] Israel that I was trying to go to… I was trying to go to Palestine. Israel controls those borders. Israel is not a safe haven for Jews. Israel is an incredibly repressive state that has in the past years, in the past decades, been moving further and further to the right, in this past year of election madness that Israel underwent. At times, we had parties that are so racist running that the party is commonly referred to as the Jewish KKK.
American Jews in contrast are increasingly and incredibly, historically, incredibly liberal. We are right now on the break of annexation, which really comes down to the US, and this is another dangerous, dangerous moment. The Middle East could easily erupt in violence from this, just as pulling out of the Iran nuclear deal was so dangerous, and moving the US embassy was so dangerous.
What we need from Biden right now is to be a leader in the other direction for him to differentiate himself from the policies of the Trump administration, for him to support H.R. 2407, the legislation to end Israeli military detention and abuse of Palestinian children. And that’s one of the things that we call for in the letter, it’s a letter both to Biden and to Trump. And we’re calling for very specific things, supporting this legislation, support for conditioning US military aid, adherence to US laws like the lady law. And even repeal of Israel’s nation state law which is inside the boundaries of Israel proper, but really sets up a system of… or cement the system inside Israel of Jews being of a higher status than Palestinians even who have citizenship.
Marc Steiner: So let me finally close with this. Let me see if there’s room here for some broad coalition and how you view that. I mean, if you look at what happened in response to the annexation moves, one that [inaudible 00:12:03] whole government in Israel, thousands of Israelis came to the streets. There’s social distancing, but Israelis, Palestinians, and Jews coming together from everywhere from left-wing Zionists to the most revolutionary communists on the Palestinian and also among some Jews. There was this huge coalition of people out in the streets saying no to annexation.
And the same kind of movement exists here in many ways, though it’s not really coalesced between people who are Zionists on the left, to people who are on the left and liberals in America who are saying no to annexation, there has to be full Palestinian rights. So what can be built that actually has an effect, both on the democratic party here and on politics here in coalition with the folks in Israel who are saying the exact same thing… Israel? Palestine, I should say, that are saying the exact same thing?
Ariel Gold: Well, I like that we are placing the building blocks, and that we’re thinking of a broad tent. Thanks very much to the work of J Street and some other more moderate, I might call them liberal, organizations. Most of the Democrats have made statements against annexation, even those who are known for being the closest with AIPAC, like Steny Hoyer.
So like I said, Biden’s in that category, but this is a building block so we have this opposition to annexation and now we need it to be moved into real action. We need it to really translate into what a solution looks like as the two-state solution has been dead for so long. And we need to make it concrete, such things like H.R. 2407, such things like ending the blockade of Gaza. Really concrete moves. And it’s so encouraging to see Israelis protesting annexation, because for so long, the Israeli peace movement seemed almost nonexistent. I hope that they’re in for the long haul because this could get really messy, and we’re going to need to support the Palestinians that are protesting right now in the Jordan Valley. We’re going to need to support them here, and we’re going to need our members of Congress and our presidential candidates to come out and speak up and take concrete action.
Marc Steiner: Well, Ariel Gold, it’s always a pleasure to talk to you. There’s so much more to explore here. Maybe we’ll do it another time. Sometimes I think when I look at the annexation, [inaudible 00:14:33] will actually carry that out, it could actually end the two-state solution altogether. As some of my friends in Palestine and Israel had been saying, they launch a whole new struggle. But we’ll see. And I appreciate all the work that you do, and for taking the time with us here today.
Ariel Gold: Thanks so much for having me on.
Marc Steiner: Always a pleasure. Ariel Gold has been our guest and I’m Marc Steiner, here for Real News Network. Please let us know what you think, write to us, tell us, and we’ll respond to you. Take care out there and stay safe.
Production: Genevieve Montinar, Andrew Corkery
Studio: Will Arenas
Related
Republish This Story Republish our articles for free, online or in print, under a Creative Commons license.


therealnews--2020-06-26--COVID-19 Is Amplifying Racial Inequities, Educators Say

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Jaisal Noor : Welcome to the Real News , I ’ m Jaisal Noor .
School ’ s out for the summer , but many questions remain for the public education system .
Will schools be able to reopen in the fall ?
Do districts have the equipment to make this happen safely ?
COVID-19 has hit school systems with high levels of poverty the hardest .
From a lack of resources required for virtual learning , to impending budget shortfalls due to economic shutdowns @ @ @ @ @ @ @ month long rebellion against racism .
Youth have led protests across the country demanding more resources for schools by cutting police budgets as well as demanding police be removed from schools .
Now joining us to discuss this is Diamonté Brown , she ’ s the president of the Baltimore Teachers Union , lifelong educator and activist .
Thank you so much for joining us .
Diamonté Brown : Thank you for having me .
Jaisal Noor : So let ’ s start with this latest news from Baltimore .
The school district @ @ @ @ @ @ @ day schools were shut down due to COVID and transition to remote virtual learning , and the teachers didn ’ t like that .
They felt that they were working during this time .
And you ’ re in fact , taking the schools to court .
You ’ re filing a lawsuit against the Baltimore school district saying you did work those days .
Talk about why the teachers are suing over this .
Diamonté Brown : Well , the exact dates that we are filing a grievance to get a compensation @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 19th .
The COVID time period is much more expansive than that , so we ’ re not arguing over not working the entire pandemic , we ’ re just focused on these select dates , March 16th through 19th , where we were working because we needed to make a transition regardless of if our administrators told us to or not , because that ’ s what educators do .
And so when schools were closed on Friday the 13th , and we were told that now we needed to transition to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 16 , teachers started doing whatever they thought they needed to do to transition to distance learning without any guidelines .
They started calling parents .
They started trying to think through lesson plans , they started to self-teach online platforms , giving family support , several different things educators were doing during these dates .
They were also paid for these dates , because according to the Baltimore Teachers Union contract , we are contracted to work a maximum of 190 days , and we get paid over 216 days .
So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a 216-day period , meaning once we work beyond 190 contractual days , we ’ re working unpaid because our salary doesn ’ t increase just because we ’ re working additional days beyond our contract .
So now , because we worked March 16th through the 19th , and got paid for it , that ’ s our position , that ’ s the Baltimore Teachers Union position .
The district is taking the position that educators did work March 16th and 19th , however , they didn ’ t explicitly tell @ @ @ @ @ @ @ did was just a regular exploited labor that educators already do like grading papers all night at home , unpaid .
Like calling families for four hours every other night to see when their kids are coming back to school , unpaid .
All of the things that we do beyond our 7.5 hours every day , the district it seems as attributed these four days to that same type of scenario , unfortunately .
And so , although they recognize our work and say that they appreciate our work during those days @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as contractual workdays , therefore their position is because you got paid for these days , but we don ’ t think you work these days , you owe us four days .
And those are the four days that were tacked on to the school year for staff after the 17th , I ’ m sorry .
The 16th was the last day of school for students .
The 17th could have been the last day of school for staff numbers .
That decision is up to the CEO and/or the school @ @ @ @ @ @ @ asked the CEO and the school board to end school for staff numbers on the 17th and they said no .
And so the 18th , the 19th , the 22nd , and the 23rd is unpaid labor .
And that is why we ’ re filing a grievance so that way we can get our members compensated for those four days .
Jaisal Noor : So a recent USA Today poll found that one in five teachers say they ’ re unlikely to return to the classroom in the fall .
You @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are doing now , we know that entire communities have been destabilized .
Schools were often a safe place for many students , and they don ’ t have that now .
They can ’ t go to school .
A lot of families are out of work , they can ’ t get assistance .
Something like 40 % of renters say they won ’ t be able to pay rent next month , so there ’ s a huge crisis happening .
Talk about what concerns teachers have right now , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ unfortunately in Baltimore City public schools , our concerns haven ’ t shifted .
Unfortunately , we already work for a system that doesn ’ t provide the education that our students deserve .
For so long , we have been asking for bare minimum educational needs like the tests that actually come along with the mandated curriculum that we ’ re supposed to teach .
Like air and heating .
These things haven ’ t gone away , and so now they ’ re just additional needs as far as COVID-19 is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we now come up with additional resources when we didn ’ t even have the resources that we needed to provide a traditional bare minimum in adequate education ?
Jaisal Noor : And we ’ ve all witnessed this global rebellion against racism , demanding this country address its racist origins .
And one of the things we ’ re seeing that are being discussed is curriculum in schools .
What kind of history is being taught ?
I remember when I went to public school in Maryland , figures like Christopher Columbus @ @ @ @ @ @ @ elementary school , and then we later went on to learn through our own independent reading that he ’ s actually responsible for genocide in this country , and treated the native people here absolutely horrible .
He carried out all these atrocities .
And I know that the Baltimore teacher ’ s union has been one of those forces locally that ’ s been calling for culturally relevant curriculum in Baltimore City schools .
Do you think that the school system is going to respond to these global calls and adapt more @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Diamonté Brown : Well , the school system for core subjects like math and English , they buy curriculum .
So the math curriculum is Eureka Math , and the English curriculum is Wit and Wisdom .
These [ inaudible 00:08:35 ] they shop according to them for a curriculum that is culturally relevant .
However , the district ’ s idea of culturally relevant is having a book with a black face on it , having a book about a black person .
Reading a poem by Nikki Giovanni .
That ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ don ’ t think that right now , our district even understands what a culturally relevant curriculum is in order for them to be able to adopt that way of thinking .
Jaisal Noor : I also wanted to ask you , many school districts around the country are facing huge shortfalls .
I was looking at some of the numbers , Colorado , $ 500 million in cuts , Georgia , one billion , Idaho , 99 million .
We know that the Baltimore school system ’ s budget is going to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , he vetoed the Kirwan Commission , which would have invested billions of more dollars in schools statewide .
What ’ s your response to the fact that the budget remains flat , and that Larry Hogan says schools don ’ t deserve more money because of this turn down , the economic shutdown due to COVID ?
Diamonté Brown : Well , if the budget is flat , that means for me that the district shouldn ’ t be coming for my members ’ s healthcare insurance and asking them to take @ @ @ @ @ @ @ anything like that .
And when we ask for raises , we should be able to get them since the budget is flat .
And Governor Hogan ’ s response wasn ’ t due to COVID , I think COVID was used as an excuse not to provide children the education they deserve .
I think it connects to what you asked me earlier about resources .
How can we depend on our government and our school districts to provide us the necessary resources post-COVID , when they weren ’ t willing to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s very concerning .
Jaisal Noor : And so we know that places like Baltimore City , they spend far more on policing than they do on their own school system .
And there ’ s been a growing movement calling to defund police and to put more resources in things like schools here in Baltimore , BTU membership back Brandon Scott , who just won the democratic primary for mayor , and he ’ s committed to making tens of millions of dollars in cuts to the police budget over the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that money towards public schools .
What ’ s your response to this movement saying that schools need more funding ?
And if we invested in schools , we wouldn ’ t need to invest so much money… Baltimore City spends more than any other large city on its school system in the whole country .
Diamonté Brown : So my initial response is I ’ m all about abolishing the police department and removing school police .
However , my membership may not be as settled in their position on these matters @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s a lot of education and data collection that I need to do with my membership to understand what the BTU ’ s position is .
However , one of the things that I noticed in Baltimore City public schools specifically is that many of the school police officers in our buildings are black males .
And I think that creates this dynamic that many people shy away from this notion of dismantling or removing school police .
And I just want to add another perspective that I think that the reason @ @ @ @ @ @ @ public schools are normally black males is because America a lot of times puts black males in roles of enforcement and discipline .
So a lot of times in Baltimore City public schools , all of our black males are like the hall monitors that are underpaid , school police officers , and so naturally our students , especially our black boys , they ’ re drawn to the black male school police officers because they don ’ t have a black male teacher in their classroom , a black male principal , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ black male school secretary .
And so I just want people to expand what it looks like to have black male representation in school .
And if we ’ re continuously saying we ’ re underfunded and I ’ m telling you , I don ’ t have the necessary novels to teach my students about themselves , then I don ’ t understand how we spend so much money on having school police at the expense of not being able to provide students a basic education .
And then additionally , in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ police are very limited in what they can do .
They can ’ t carry a weapon .
They can ’ t do an arrest .
So the things that people think they want school police in schools for , they don ’ t do that anyway .
So I think there ’ s a lot of education that needs to be given .
I think that people need to stop just solely looking at black males as an enforcer , as someone who needs to be physical in order to be respected @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we need to pay black males more that are in our school buildings , so that when we do ask them to be engaged in our children ’ s lives , we ’ re not treating them like second class citizens and giving them low pay .
Because what that does is it… [ inaudible 00:15:38 ] assume that something like the police force probably pays more , has more benefits than maybe even an educator , unfortunately .
So I think the conversation is a very expansive conversation .
I have my @ @ @ @ @ @ @ leader of a 7,000 member organization , my main goal is to educate my membership on all the different perspectives , to give them the opportunity to share their different perspectives , and to make certain they they understand what the community wants , and that they understand what the consequences are of not following what the community wants and what the advantages are of us [ inaudible 00:16:26 ] .
Jaisal Noor : All right Diamonté Brown , president of the Baltimore Teachers Union .
Thank you so much for joining us @ @ @ @ @ @ @ been extremely busy these last few months dealing with everything that ’ s going on , so we really appreciate your time and for sharing your insight with us .
We appreciate it .
Diamonté Brown : Thanks for having me .
Jaisal Noor : Thank you for joining us at the Real News Network .

Baltimore Teachers Union President Diamonté Brown discusses a recent lawsuit over unpaid instructional days, global protests against racism, the movement to defund the police, and calls to remove officers from schools.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Jaisal Noor: Welcome to the Real News, I’m Jaisal Noor. School’s out for the summer, but many questions remain for the public education system. Will schools be able to reopen in the fall? Do districts have the equipment to make this happen safely? COVID-19 has hit school systems with high levels of poverty the hardest. From a lack of resources required for virtual learning, to impending budget shortfalls due to economic shutdowns. All this is unfolding amidst a month long rebellion against racism.
Youth have led protests across the country demanding more resources for schools by cutting police budgets as well as demanding police be removed from schools. Now joining us to discuss this is Diamonté Brown, she’s the president of the Baltimore Teachers Union, lifelong educator and activist. Thank you so much for joining us.
Diamonté Brown: Thank you for having me.
Jaisal Noor: So let’s start with this latest news from Baltimore. The school district says teachers did not work during the day schools were shut down due to COVID and transition to remote virtual learning, and the teachers didn’t like that. They felt that they were working during this time. And you’re in fact, taking the schools to court. You’re filing a lawsuit against the Baltimore school district saying you did work those days. Talk about why the teachers are suing over this.
Diamonté Brown: Well, the exact dates that we are filing a grievance to get a compensation for is March 16th, through March 19th. The COVID time period is much more expansive than that, so we’re not arguing over not working the entire pandemic, we’re just focused on these select dates, March 16th through 19th, where we were working because we needed to make a transition regardless of if our administrators told us to or not, because that’s what educators do.
And so when schools were closed on Friday the 13th, and we were told that now we needed to transition to distance learning, that Monday, March 16, teachers started doing whatever they thought they needed to do to transition to distance learning without any guidelines. They started calling parents. They started trying to think through lesson plans, they started to self-teach online platforms, giving family support, several different things educators were doing during these dates. They were also paid for these dates, because according to the Baltimore Teachers Union contract, we are contracted to work a maximum of 190 days, and we get paid over 216 days.
So we get paid out our salary over a 216-day period, meaning once we work beyond 190 contractual days, we’re working unpaid because our salary doesn’t increase just because we’re working additional days beyond our contract. So now, because we worked March 16th through the 19th, and got paid for it, that’s our position, that’s the Baltimore Teachers Union position.
The district is taking the position that educators did work March 16th and 19th, however, they didn’t explicitly tell us to work therefore whatever work we did was just a regular exploited labor that educators already do like grading papers all night at home, unpaid. Like calling families for four hours every other night to see when their kids are coming back to school, unpaid. All of the things that we do beyond our 7.5 hours every day, the district it seems as attributed these four days to that same type of scenario, unfortunately.
And so, although they recognize our work and say that they appreciate our work during those days, they’re not recognizing them as contractual workdays, therefore their position is because you got paid for these days, but we don’t think you work these days, you owe us four days. And those are the four days that were tacked on to the school year for staff after the 17th, I’m sorry. The 16th was the last day of school for students. The 17th could have been the last day of school for staff numbers.
That decision is up to the CEO and/or the school board. And the Baltimore Teachers Union asked the CEO and the school board to end school for staff numbers on the 17th and they said no. And so the 18th, the 19th, the 22nd, and the 23rd is unpaid labor. And that is why we’re filing a grievance so that way we can get our members compensated for those four days.
Jaisal Noor: So a recent USA Today poll found that one in five teachers say they’re unlikely to return to the classroom in the fall. You talked about the extra work that teachers are doing now, we know that entire communities have been destabilized. Schools were often a safe place for many students, and they don’t have that now. They can’t go to school. A lot of families are out of work, they can’t get assistance. Something like 40% of renters say they won’t be able to pay rent next month, so there’s a huge crisis happening. Talk about what concerns teachers have right now, especially.
Diamonté Brown: Well, unfortunately in Baltimore City public schools, our concerns haven’t shifted. Unfortunately, we already work for a system that doesn’t provide the education that our students deserve. For so long, we have been asking for bare minimum educational needs like the tests that actually come along with the mandated curriculum that we’re supposed to teach. Like air and heating. These things haven’t gone away, and so now they’re just additional needs as far as COVID-19 is concerned, which is, how do we now come up with additional resources when we didn’t even have the resources that we needed to provide a traditional bare minimum in adequate education?
Jaisal Noor: And we’ve all witnessed this global rebellion against racism, demanding this country address its racist origins. And one of the things we’re seeing that are being discussed is curriculum in schools. What kind of history is being taught? I remember when I went to public school in Maryland, figures like Christopher Columbus were held up as heroes starting in elementary school, and then we later went on to learn through our own independent reading that he’s actually responsible for genocide in this country, and treated the native people here absolutely horrible. He carried out all these atrocities.
And I know that the Baltimore teacher’s union has been one of those forces locally that’s been calling for culturally relevant curriculum in Baltimore City schools. Do you think that the school system is going to respond to these global calls and adapt more of these concerns locally as well?
Diamonté Brown: No.
Jaisal Noor: Explain.
Diamonté Brown: Well, the school system for core subjects like math and English, they buy curriculum. So the math curriculum is Eureka Math, and the English curriculum is Wit and Wisdom. These [inaudible 00:08:35] they shop according to them for a curriculum that is culturally relevant. However, the district’s idea of culturally relevant is having a book with a black face on it, having a book about a black person. Reading a poem by Nikki Giovanni. That’s not culturally relevant curriculum. I don’t think that right now, our district even understands what a culturally relevant curriculum is in order for them to be able to adopt that way of thinking.
Jaisal Noor: I also wanted to ask you, many school districts around the country are facing huge shortfalls. I was looking at some of the numbers, Colorado, $500 million in cuts, Georgia, one billion, Idaho, 99 million. We know that the Baltimore school system’s budget is going to remain flat, but Governor Larry Hogan, he vetoed the Kirwan Commission, which would have invested billions of more dollars in schools statewide. What’s your response to the fact that the budget remains flat, and that Larry Hogan says schools don’t deserve more money because of this turn down, the economic shutdown due to COVID?
Diamonté Brown: Well, if the budget is flat, that means for me that the district shouldn’t be coming for my members’s healthcare insurance and asking them to take any shorts on their healthcare insurance or anything like that. And when we ask for raises, we should be able to get them since the budget is flat. And Governor Hogan’s response wasn’t due to COVID, I think COVID was used as an excuse not to provide children the education they deserve. I think it connects to what you asked me earlier about resources. How can we depend on our government and our school districts to provide us the necessary resources post-COVID, when they weren’t willing to give them to us pre-COVID? It’s very concerning.
Jaisal Noor: And so we know that places like Baltimore City, they spend far more on policing than they do on their own school system. And there’s been a growing movement calling to defund police and to put more resources in things like schools here in Baltimore, BTU membership back Brandon Scott, who just won the democratic primary for mayor, and he’s committed to making tens of millions of dollars in cuts to the police budget over the next few years and put some of that money towards public schools. What’s your response to this movement saying that schools need more funding? And if we invested in schools, we wouldn’t need to invest so much money… Baltimore City spends more than any other large city on its school system in the whole country.
Diamonté Brown: So my initial response is I’m all about abolishing the police department and removing school police. However, my membership may not be as settled in their position on these matters as I am, so therefore there’s a lot of education and data collection that I need to do with my membership to understand what the BTU’s position is. However, one of the things that I noticed in Baltimore City public schools specifically is that many of the school police officers in our buildings are black males. And I think that creates this dynamic that many people shy away from this notion of dismantling or removing school police. And I just want to add another perspective that I think that the reason why the school police and Baltimore City public schools are normally black males is because America a lot of times puts black males in roles of enforcement and discipline.
So a lot of times in Baltimore City public schools, all of our black males are like the hall monitors that are underpaid, school police officers, and so naturally our students, especially our black boys, they’re drawn to the black male school police officers because they don’t have a black male teacher in their classroom, a black male principal, a black male guidance counselor, a black male school secretary.
And so I just want people to expand what it looks like to have black male representation in school. And if we’re continuously saying we’re underfunded and I’m telling you, I don’t have the necessary novels to teach my students about themselves, then I don’t understand how we spend so much money on having school police at the expense of not being able to provide students a basic education.
And then additionally, in Baltimore City public schools, the school police are very limited in what they can do. They can’t carry a weapon. They can’t do an arrest. So the things that people think they want school police in schools for, they don’t do that anyway.
So I think there’s a lot of education that needs to be given. I think that people need to stop just solely looking at black males as an enforcer, as someone who needs to be physical in order to be respected and validated, and I think that we need to pay black males more that are in our school buildings, so that when we do ask them to be engaged in our children’s lives, we’re not treating them like second class citizens and giving them low pay. Because what that does is it… [inaudible 00:15:38] assume that something like the police force probably pays more, has more benefits than maybe even an educator, unfortunately.
So I think the conversation is a very expansive conversation. I have my own personal views, but as a leader of a 7,000 member organization, my main goal is to educate my membership on all the different perspectives, to give them the opportunity to share their different perspectives, and to make certain they they understand what the community wants, and that they understand what the consequences are of not following what the community wants and what the advantages are of us [inaudible 00:16:26].
Jaisal Noor: All right Diamonté Brown, president of the Baltimore Teachers Union. Thank you so much for joining us. We know that you’ve been extremely busy these last few months dealing with everything that’s going on, so we really appreciate your time and for sharing your insight with us. We appreciate it.
Diamonté Brown: Thanks for having me.
Jaisal Noor: Thank you for joining us at the Real News Network.
Related
Republish This Story Republish our articles for free, online or in print, under a Creative Commons license.


therealnews--2020-06-26--Stir Crazy! Episode #60: First Nations Friday

All donations in the US and Canada are tax deductible .
To make a secure donation by credit or debit @ @ @ @ @ location , or select PayPal .

On today’s show: Journalist, organizer, and founding executive director of Crushing Colonialism Jen Deerinwater, Miwok journalist and community organizer Desiree Kane, and journalist and community builder Johnnie Jae. Hosted by Kim Brown.
If you have questions/comments/suggestions for the show email us at stircrazy@therealnews.com
Related
Republish This Story Republish our articles for free, online or in print, under a Creative Commons license.


therealnews--2020-06-26--Police Are Arresting Protesters Over Facebook Posts—And It’s Just The Beginning

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Taya Graham : Hello .
My name is Taya Graham and welcome to the Police Accountability Report .
As I never get tired of saying , this show has a single purpose ; holding the politically powerful institution of policing accountable .
To do so , we don ’ t just focus on the behavior of individual cops , but go beyond the headlines to explore how the system itself , both bolsters and incentivizes the growth of policing in American life .
And today @ @ @ @ @ @ @ growing and troubling new intersection between capitalism and law enforcement surveillance .
How police are using technology to monitor us and in certain instances how we are voluntarily aiding the expansion of the power to observe us .
But before I get started , I want you watching to know that if you have evidence of police misconduct , please email it to us privately at [ email protected ] And please like , and share and comment on our videos .
You know , I read your comments and appreciate them .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ message me directly at [ Tayas Baltimore 00:01:01 ] on Facebook or Twitter .
Okay .
We ’ ve got that out of the way .
Now , as we know , there has been growing concern about the use of surveillance technology by police .
With the prevalence of social media apps like Facebook and Instagram , law enforcement has a variety of new ways to track what you do and how you think .
But those concerns have taken on a new urgency during the uprisings across the country after the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
As communities have taken to the streets to protest police brutality , structural racism , and have called for political leaders to defund policing , law enforcement has used the opportunity to show us just how easily it can track our activities and how they are willing to act upon it .
Take the case of Michael Avery .
Avery , a Black Lives Matter activist can be seen here in this video being arrested by , you ’ ll notice , men in non distinct uniforms for an unspecified crime .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ , why are they arresting him ?
But the officers are tight lipped .
Let ’ s watch .
Speaker 2 : We ’ re going to do this as calmly as possible .
All right .
Speaker 3 : Could you please let me… Can I see some paperwork ?
Speaker 2 : You don ’ t have to see paperwork .
It ’ s been signed .
Speaker 4 : My husband ’ s in the house .
Speaker 2 : It ’ s been signed .
We ’ re going @ @ @ @ @ @ @ take you to the car and take you to the police station .
Speaker 5 : Sir , we ’ ll try and do this cool .
Okay , we ’ ll walk over to the car and put the handcuffs [ crosstalk 00:02:24 ] .
Speaker 3 : Can I hand my mom my phone real quick ?
Speaker 5 : Give it to her .
Taya Graham : We ’ ve learned that federal law enforcement was monitoring and making arrests based upon a single Facebook post .
To get more @ @ @ @ @ @ @ implications I ’ m joined by my reporting partner , Stephen Janis .
Stephen , thanks for joining us .
Stephen Janis : Thanks for having me Taya , I appreciate it .
Taya Graham : So Stephen , up on the screen now is the arrest of a St. Louis activist , Michael Avery , which he streamed live on his Facebook page .
First of all , why was he arrested and what were the charges ?
Stephen Janis : Well , it took me a while to track down , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ agent who was in charge of this investigation and got ahold of these documents , which is the affidavit filed with the federal court justifying his arrest .
And I ’ ve got to say that there ’ s not much in it .
We ’ ll show it on the screen right now .
Basically it was based off a series of Facebook posts about protests that I think were widely misinterpreted , where Mr. Avery had posted about going down to protest the police department in Ferguson , Missouri , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ shooters to come , which I think I believe means people with cameras and cell phones .
And the FBI interpreted this as a person who is inciting a riot .
So the charges are flimsy at best .
Taya Graham : Now prosecutors dropped the charges , but not before they tried to keep him locked up in prison .
What did they say and what was the reality ?
You reached out to the FBI , what did they tell you ?
Stephen Janis : Well , when I asked the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ these documents I said , “ why did you drop the charges ?
” They did not answer .
One thing is interesting is that they tried to keep him incarcerated saying he was a danger to the community , even though he had no criminal history that indicated he would be violent .
And they also said that they didn ’ t think he lived in St. Louis , which he in fact did live in St. Louis .
So it was a bizarre set of circumstances and they won ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ thought he needed to be detained .
Taya Graham : Steven , you examined the evidence filed with court , justifying his arrest , but the agency made a glaring error .
What was it ?
Stephen Janis : Yeah , the big error again was that they said that he lived in Minnesota .
They thought he was from Minnesota and had traveled to St. Louis .
When in fact he actually lived in St. Louis and was from St. Louis .
But among that was just , I think the errors @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s going to be a red event , or a high level red event , meaning they thought that it was going to precipitate violence .
But actually what that means is just that they feel the police are going to throw tear gas , don ’ t bring your kids .
And they also gave him a hard time for recounting what was happening in Minnesota with looting , what looters had done , but he was merely conveying information .
He wasn ’ t asking people to loot or encouraging people @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
That ’ s it .
Taya Graham : When law enforcement apologists or politicians say concerns over the use of social media or other technology to monitor behavior is simply a more efficient means to nab the so called bad guys .
The case of Michael Avery raises several troubling questions .
Bear in mind that concerns have already been raised about facial recognition technology .
A report from the Georgetown law center on privacy and technology estimates , roughly 117 million Americans are already in some form of database primed for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ forget that those same systems are more likely to misidentify African-Americans and indigenous Americans and people of color .
Or that the use of facial recognition software and social media will allow law enforcement to actually track your movements , friends , and associations .
Even if we set all that aside for a moment and simply focus on Mr. Avery ’ s case , we can ’ t help but recognize how this blend of technology and the culture of law enforcement in this country creates a troubling array of concerns .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the show , we have focused on one single , overarching trend that has defined American policing over the past two decades .
It ’ s a unifying theme that ties all the aforementioned concerns into an unwieldy bundle of potential pitfalls .
Policing , at least in this country is a growth industry .
Let ’ s remember the graph we used in the last show which demonstrated this fact quite effectively .
Since the 1990s , despite the fact that violent crime has dropped significantly , police spending has grown @ @ @ @ @ @ @ creep of American law enforcement is exactly what the protesters are trying to address when they call for defunding police departments across the country .
And now with the evolution of surveillance technology that has proliferated into every nook and cranny of American life , and as we ’ ve said , an ever expansive police bureaucracy , both are conjuring new ways to observe us that demand our attention .
Consider what is happening with the popular Ring security systems owned by America ’ s ubiquitous corporate behemoth Amazon .
As you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to set up private surveillance systems throughout their homes that can be monitored remotely .
The systems have proven so popular that Amazon has found a new partner to help sell them , local police departments .
That ’ s right , the company has teamed up with roughly 400 local police agencies to offer $ 500 rebates to install a Ring system in your home .
It ’ s a match made in heaven .
A law enforcement industrial complex , now under intense scrutiny for brutal tactics , partnered with a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ demeaning labor practices and of firing an employee who demanded better protections during the COVID-19 pandemic .
I wonder what could possibly go wrong ?
Well , to give us a sense of just how fraught that question is , I ’ m joined by a guest who has intimate knowledge of how fast the surveillance state is growing and what , if anything we can do about it .
Because he has worked for the companies that are actively involved in some of the technology we ’ re discussing , he asked @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have agreed .
[ Franson Code 00:07:54 ] , thank you for joining us today .
Franson : Thank you , Taya .
I appreciate it and it needs to be said .
Taya Graham : So the case of Michael Avery is alarming because it seems to show that not only law enforcement is monitoring social media , but are willing to press charges based upon a single post .
So my question is , are police really just relying on Facebook posts as investigative tools and does that apply to other @ @ @ @ @ @ @ think that the police are not using the social media platforms for their investigations would be naive .
There ’ s documents coming out where it ’ s not just the local police and authorities , this actually extends further to federal three letter acronyms sending out notifications of these types of things .
And they ’ ll put their , what I ’ d like to call the , “ We didn ’ t do it ” terminology at the bottom , saying not to take action based on this post .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ the information in the first place , if you ’ re not expecting action to be taken ?
Taya Graham : So given how much social media there is in terms of quantity , what type of technology are they using to do this ?
I know we covered a program that our own police department wanted to use to track people , but how does this work ?
And what are the pitfalls ?
Franson : When you have very few phone manufacturers , you have this ability to truly track from @ @ @ @ @ @ @ point of sale to literally the death of the device .
So it ’ s kind of one of those things , you think about a phone that ’ s been stolen , they can disable it .
Well , do they completely disable it ?
Do they leave the tracking feature stuff on in there ?
I would assume that , being that the best dog tag that I ’ ve ever seen in my life is a cell phone .
And for you not to think that your Bluetooth is not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ by itself is not giving the signal , I think that the tools that are available are astonishing .
There ’ s sites out there like Hackaday , and all you have to do is just go scrolling through it , hackaday.io .
And there ’ s some amazing things like , Oh , I don ’ t know , temperatures for your gardens and things like that .
But there ’ s also little toys out there on how to collect data .
And that ’ s what this is , is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you take everything , the human and everything else out of it , all you ’ re doing is tracking a device .
Well , that device is attached to the human and if they want to turn on the audio , I think it ’ s very possible .
Taya Graham : So there ’ s been a lot of discussion about a company that created facial recognition software that uses social media to track associations and movement .
I believe Clearview AI was the company that originally gave information to law @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a bit .
What are the dangers of this technology and how concerned are you about it ?
Franson : So am I concerned about it ?
No , because I ’ ve seen it coming .
So it ’ s kind of one of those things it ’ s like , I even taught you how to build your first one .
I have a video that shows you how to make an Ubuntu server , load programs onto it , use a program called OpenCV , and it will pick out @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
So what can we do next with that ?
You take this Clearview AI , and I was using YouTube because of the same reason Clearview did .
It ’ s publicly available information , so why not use that information to train your little AI that you build and all your little algorithms .
The problem that I have is there ’ s no , “ I want to opt out.
” It ’ s opt in literally by you just put your crap out on Facebook .
Taya Graham : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the fourth amendment is supposed to protect us from unreasonable searches .
Shouldn ’ t the constitution apply to the technology we ’ re discussing ?
Franson : One of the interesting things is , is that we ’ ve all seen these attempts to mute voices on these different platforms .
And everybody gets up in arms and tries to throw a , “ Well , this is America .
This is this .
This is that.
” Does it say the United States government on there ?
No .
Those amendments @ @ @ @ @ @ @ government , not from a private company .
These things about all these little licenses and legalnese that you ’ re agreeing to , you might just actually be signing away your life .
Matter of fact , I ’ m pretty sure you are .
Taya Graham : As I watched the rest of Michael Avery , I couldn ’ t help but think about Franz Kafka .
Kafka is the famous early 20th century author best known for her short story , The Metamorphosis , which recounts the travails of a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
One of his most famous books , The Trial , opens when the main character , Joseph K , is arrested .
But there ’ s a catch .
When he asked why he ’ s being detained , the authorities won ’ t tell him .
In fact , the story unfolds primarily around Joseph K ’ s search to simply find out what the charges were against him which , spoiler alert , proves futile .
Kafka is often associated with the term Kafkaesque , meaning to some , a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ defined by shadowy institutions that look over us and infiltrate our lives in both unseen and menacing ways .
But I think of Kafka as more of a psychologist .
Someone who understands intrinsically how we distance ourselves from the truths about our human nature , to our own detriment .
And in this sense , long before the technology existed , Kafka understood that the penchant for surveillance and entanglement exists within us already .
And he knew this predilection could have treacherous consequences if we did not acknowledge it .
Which @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 100 years later , that we are failing to grapple with the looming threat of ubiquitous surveillance that is putting us in the same dilemma faced by Kafka ’ s protagonists .
Consider the case of Rakem Balogun .
A long time police reform activist , he was awakened in the middle of the night in December of 2017 in his Dallas , Texas home by a [ inaudible 00:14:15 ] of FBI agents .
Unsure of why he was being hauled off to jail , Balogun was stunned to learn that the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ posts and was accusing him of domestic terrorism .
The charges stem from a rally he attended after the deaths of several African-American men at the hands of police .
The sole basis of the case were some Facebook posts that express general support for the man who had killed five Houston police officers .
But the case fell apart because authorities could not point to anything specific in threats Balogun had made .
He had simply expressed his opinion .
He had not acted , he had written .
He had not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
He simply voiced his dissent .
The point is , the charges against him were based solely on a Facebook post expressing an opinion and participation in a protest , fundamental first amendment activities that are supposed to be sacrosanct in this country .
But apparently not for him .
And along with spending five months in jail for a crime he didn ’ t commit , the consequences for Balogun were devastating .
He lost his house and his car , his 15 year old son who was living with him @ @ @ @ @ @ @ leave school and move .
And he missed the birth of his daughter .
All of this because of speech posted on Facebook .
I guess the question is , would these charges even be possible , for example , if Facebook didn ’ t exist ?
Which is part of the fundamental question of the show .
We already know that social media platforms like Facebook and Instagram monitor your preferences and interactions to sell the data to advertisers .
We know that so-called surveillance capitalism has spawned some of the wealthiest @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that many of the techniques and algorithms used to hold onto our attention are bolstered by media that engenders fear and distrust .
And now those same platforms are offering our opinions and discussion to an ever-growing law enforcement industry to hunt for potential charges of domestic terrorism .
Are we supposed to accept that they both profit and criminalize our opinions and passions ?
Is this the final frontier for fortifying our [ carceral 00:16:26 ] state , our thoughts ?
Have we finally reached the dystopian nightmares of a society where @ @ @ @ @ @ @ profit .
The point is that the evolution of technology that is supposed to connect us is also raising the specter of a Kafkaesque reality that seems more relevant than ever .
I mean , think about the question Mr. Avery asked over and over again in the video .
“ What are the charges ?
” Think about the fact that appears from our own investigation , FBI agents based their entire case on a Facebook post that was wholly misunderstood .
Think about all the things you ’ ve posted , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what would happen if the FBI could parse them and decide to take away your freedom based solely on their interpretation of what you said .
Think about what it means if they were free to track your associations , vacations , groups you ’ ve joined and pronouncements you ’ ve made .
Sounds like The Trial on a daily basis .
I want to thank my guest , Franson Code , for his insights and for stepping forward to tell us about this industry from an insider perspective .
Franson : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ out there doing what you all do .
Keep hitting the bricks and like , you all are , thank you .
Taya Graham : And I have to thank my Intrepid reporting partner , Steven Janis , for his writing , editing and reporting on this piece .
Stephen Janis : Taya , thanks for having me .
I appreciate it .
Taya Graham : And I ’ d like to thank visual producer , Andrew Corkery for his research on this piece as well .
And I would be remiss if @ @ @ @ @ @ @ show , [ Nollie D 00:17:56 ] , for her support .
Thank you Nollie D. And I want you watching to know that if you have evidence of police misconduct or brutality , please share it with us and we might be able to investigate .
Please reach out to us .
You can email us tips privately [ email protected ] and share your evidence of police misconduct .
You can also message us at Police Accountability Report on Facebook or Instagram , or at Eyes on Police on Twitter .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ directly at Tayas Baltimore on Twitter or Facebook .
And please like and comment , you know I read your comments , appreciate them , and I try to answer your questions whenever I can .
My name is Taya Graham and I am your host of the Police Accountability Report .
Please be safe out there .

The FBI investigated and arrested Michael Avery for posting on Facebook about a Black Lives Matter protest. We talk with a tech industry whistleblower about “snitch apps” and how law enforcement uses technology to “protect” you.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Taya Graham: Hello. My name is Taya Graham and welcome to the Police Accountability Report. As I never get tired of saying, this show has a single purpose; holding the politically powerful institution of policing accountable. To do so, we don’t just focus on the behavior of individual cops, but go beyond the headlines to explore how the system itself, both bolsters and incentivizes the growth of policing in American life.
And today we’re going to explore a growing and troubling new intersection between capitalism and law enforcement surveillance. How police are using technology to monitor us and in certain instances how we are voluntarily aiding the expansion of the power to observe us.
But before I get started, I want you watching to know that if you have evidence of police misconduct, please email it to us privately at par@therealnews.com. And please like, and share and comment on our videos. You know, I read your comments and appreciate them. And of course, you can always message me directly at [Tayas Baltimore 00:01:01] on Facebook or Twitter.
Okay. We’ve got that out of the way. Now, as we know, there has been growing concern about the use of surveillance technology by police. With the prevalence of social media apps like Facebook and Instagram, law enforcement has a variety of new ways to track what you do and how you think. But those concerns have taken on a new urgency during the uprisings across the country after the death of George Floyd in police custody.
As communities have taken to the streets to protest police brutality, structural racism, and have called for political leaders to defund policing, law enforcement has used the opportunity to show us just how easily it can track our activities and how they are willing to act upon it.
Take the case of Michael Avery. Avery, a Black Lives Matter activist can be seen here in this video being arrested by, you’ll notice, men in non distinct uniforms for an unspecified crime. In fact, Avery even asked them, why are they arresting him? But the officers are tight lipped. Let’s watch.
Speaker 2: We’re going to do this as calmly as possible. All right.
Speaker 3: Could you please let me… Can I see some paperwork?
Speaker 2: You don’t have to see paperwork. It’s been signed.
Speaker 4: My husband’s in the house.
Speaker 2: It’s been signed. We’re going to put handcuffs on your wrists, take you to the car and take you to the police station.
Speaker 5: Sir, we’ll try and do this cool. Okay, we’ll walk over to the car and put the handcuffs [crosstalk 00:02:24].
Speaker 3: Can I hand my mom my phone real quick?
Speaker 5: Give it to her.
Taya Graham: We’ve learned that federal law enforcement was monitoring and making arrests based upon a single Facebook post. To get more insight on how this happened and the implications I’m joined by my reporting partner, Stephen Janis. Stephen, thanks for joining us.
Stephen Janis: Thanks for having me Taya, I appreciate it.
Taya Graham: So Stephen, up on the screen now is the arrest of a St. Louis activist, Michael Avery, which he streamed live on his Facebook page. First of all, why was he arrested and what were the charges?
Stephen Janis: Well, it took me a while to track down, but I finally tracked down the FBI agent who was in charge of this investigation and got ahold of these documents, which is the affidavit filed with the federal court justifying his arrest. And I’ve got to say that there’s not much in it.
We’ll show it on the screen right now. Basically it was based off a series of Facebook posts about protests that I think were widely misinterpreted, where Mr. Avery had posted about going down to protest the police department in Ferguson, Missouri, and that he said he wanted lots of shooters to come, which I think I believe means people with cameras and cell phones. And the FBI interpreted this as a person who is inciting a riot. So the charges are flimsy at best.
Taya Graham: Now prosecutors dropped the charges, but not before they tried to keep him locked up in prison. What did they say and what was the reality? You reached out to the FBI, what did they tell you?
Stephen Janis: Well, when I asked the FBI the question, when I got these documents I said, “why did you drop the charges?” They did not answer. One thing is interesting is that they tried to keep him incarcerated saying he was a danger to the community, even though he had no criminal history that indicated he would be violent. And they also said that they didn’t think he lived in St. Louis, which he in fact did live in St. Louis. So it was a bizarre set of circumstances and they won’t answer my questions as to why they thought he needed to be detained.
Taya Graham: Steven, you examined the evidence filed with court, justifying his arrest, but the agency made a glaring error. What was it?
Stephen Janis: Yeah, the big error again was that they said that he lived in Minnesota. They thought he was from Minnesota and had traveled to St. Louis. When in fact he actually lived in St. Louis and was from St. Louis. But among that was just, I think the errors of misinterpretation, like saying it’s going to be a red event, or a high level red event, meaning they thought that it was going to precipitate violence.
But actually what that means is just that they feel the police are going to throw tear gas, don’t bring your kids. And they also gave him a hard time for recounting what was happening in Minnesota with looting, what looters had done, but he was merely conveying information. He wasn’t asking people to loot or encouraging people, just telling people what was happening. That’s it.
Taya Graham: When law enforcement apologists or politicians say concerns over the use of social media or other technology to monitor behavior is simply a more efficient means to nab the so called bad guys. The case of Michael Avery raises several troubling questions.
Bear in mind that concerns have already been raised about facial recognition technology. A report from the Georgetown law center on privacy and technology estimates, roughly 117 million Americans are already in some form of database primed for monitoring. And let’s not forget that those same systems are more likely to misidentify African-Americans and indigenous Americans and people of color. Or that the use of facial recognition software and social media will allow law enforcement to actually track your movements, friends, and associations.
Even if we set all that aside for a moment and simply focus on Mr. Avery’s case, we can’t help but recognize how this blend of technology and the culture of law enforcement in this country creates a troubling array of concerns.
That’s because for the entirety of the show, we have focused on one single, overarching trend that has defined American policing over the past two decades. It’s a unifying theme that ties all the aforementioned concerns into an unwieldy bundle of potential pitfalls. Policing, at least in this country is a growth industry.
Let’s remember the graph we used in the last show which demonstrated this fact quite effectively. Since the 1990s, despite the fact that violent crime has dropped significantly, police spending has grown simultaneously. In fact, the mission creep of American law enforcement is exactly what the protesters are trying to address when they call for defunding police departments across the country.
And now with the evolution of surveillance technology that has proliferated into every nook and cranny of American life, and as we’ve said, an ever expansive police bureaucracy, both are conjuring new ways to observe us that demand our attention.
Consider what is happening with the popular Ring security systems owned by America’s ubiquitous corporate behemoth Amazon. As you may already know, Ring allows homeowners to set up private surveillance systems throughout their homes that can be monitored remotely. The systems have proven so popular that Amazon has found a new partner to help sell them, local police departments.
That’s right, the company has teamed up with roughly 400 local police agencies to offer $500 rebates to install a Ring system in your home. It’s a match made in heaven. A law enforcement industrial complex, now under intense scrutiny for brutal tactics, partnered with a company that’s been accused of demeaning labor practices and of firing an employee who demanded better protections during the COVID-19 pandemic. I wonder what could possibly go wrong?
Well, to give us a sense of just how fraught that question is, I’m joined by a guest who has intimate knowledge of how fast the surveillance state is growing and what, if anything we can do about it. Because he has worked for the companies that are actively involved in some of the technology we’re discussing, he asked that we shield his identity and we have agreed. [Franson Code 00:07:54] , thank you for joining us today.
Franson: Thank you, Taya. I appreciate it and it needs to be said.
Taya Graham: So the case of Michael Avery is alarming because it seems to show that not only law enforcement is monitoring social media, but are willing to press charges based upon a single post. So my question is, are police really just relying on Facebook posts as investigative tools and does that apply to other social media platforms?
Franson: To think that the police are not using the social media platforms for their investigations would be naive. There’s documents coming out where it’s not just the local police and authorities, this actually extends further to federal three letter acronyms sending out notifications of these types of things. And they’ll put their, what I’d like to call the, “We didn’t do it” terminology at the bottom, saying not to take action based on this post. Well, why are you sending out the information in the first place, if you’re not expecting action to be taken?
Taya Graham: So given how much social media there is in terms of quantity, what type of technology are they using to do this? I know we covered a program that our own police department wanted to use to track people, but how does this work? And what are the pitfalls?
Franson: When you have very few phone manufacturers, you have this ability to truly track from point of concept all the way to point of sale to literally the death of the device. So it’s kind of one of those things, you think about a phone that’s been stolen, they can disable it. Well, do they completely disable it? Do they leave the tracking feature stuff on in there?
I would assume that, being that the best dog tag that I’ve ever seen in my life is a cell phone. And for you not to think that your Bluetooth is not giving a signal or your cell phone by itself is not giving the signal, I think that the tools that are available are astonishing.
There’s sites out there like Hackaday, and all you have to do is just go scrolling through it, hackaday.io. And there’s some amazing things like, Oh, I don’t know, temperatures for your gardens and things like that. But there’s also little toys out there on how to collect data. And that’s what this is, is a collection of data. And when you take everything, the human and everything else out of it, all you’re doing is tracking a device. Well, that device is attached to the human and if they want to turn on the audio, I think it’s very possible.
Taya Graham: So there’s been a lot of discussion about a company that created facial recognition software that uses social media to track associations and movement. I believe Clearview AI was the company that originally gave information to law enforcement, but has since pulled back a bit. What are the dangers of this technology and how concerned are you about it?
Franson: So am I concerned about it? No, because I’ve seen it coming. So it’s kind of one of those things it’s like, I even taught you how to build your first one. I have a video that shows you how to make an Ubuntu server, load programs onto it, use a program called OpenCV, and it will pick out the faces out of a YouTube video.
So what can we do next with that? You take this Clearview AI, and I was using YouTube because of the same reason Clearview did. It’s publicly available information, so why not use that information to train your little AI that you build and all your little algorithms. The problem that I have is there’s no, “I want to opt out.” It’s opt in literally by you just put your crap out on Facebook.
Taya Graham: So, as you well know, the fourth amendment is supposed to protect us from unreasonable searches. Shouldn’t the constitution apply to the technology we’re discussing?
Franson: One of the interesting things is, is that we’ve all seen these attempts to mute voices on these different platforms. And everybody gets up in arms and tries to throw a, “Well, this is America. This is this. This is that.” Does it say the United States government on there? No. Those amendments are there to protect you from the government, not from a private company. These things about all these little licenses and legalnese that you’re agreeing to, you might just actually be signing away your life. Matter of fact, I’m pretty sure you are.
Taya Graham: As I watched the rest of Michael Avery, I couldn’t help but think about Franz Kafka. Kafka is the famous early 20th century author best known for her short story, The Metamorphosis, which recounts the travails of a salesman who wakes up as a cockroach.
One of his most famous books, The Trial, opens when the main character, Joseph K, is arrested. But there’s a catch. When he asked why he’s being detained, the authorities won’t tell him. In fact, the story unfolds primarily around Joseph K’s search to simply find out what the charges were against him which, spoiler alert, proves futile.
Kafka is often associated with the term Kafkaesque, meaning to some, a sense that we live in a world defined by shadowy institutions that look over us and infiltrate our lives in both unseen and menacing ways. But I think of Kafka as more of a psychologist. Someone who understands intrinsically how we distance ourselves from the truths about our human nature, to our own detriment.
And in this sense, long before the technology existed, Kafka understood that the penchant for surveillance and entanglement exists within us already. And he knew this predilection could have treacherous consequences if we did not acknowledge it. Which is why it’s telling almost 100 years later, that we are failing to grapple with the looming threat of ubiquitous surveillance that is putting us in the same dilemma faced by Kafka’s protagonists.
Consider the case of Rakem Balogun. A long time police reform activist, he was awakened in the middle of the night in December of 2017 in his Dallas, Texas home by a [inaudible 00:14:15] of FBI agents. Unsure of why he was being hauled off to jail, Balogun was stunned to learn that the federal government had been monitoring his Facebook posts and was accusing him of domestic terrorism.
The charges stem from a rally he attended after the deaths of several African-American men at the hands of police. The sole basis of the case were some Facebook posts that express general support for the man who had killed five Houston police officers. But the case fell apart because authorities could not point to anything specific in threats Balogun had made. He had simply expressed his opinion. He had not acted, he had written. He had not expressed intention to harm anyone in particular. He simply voiced his dissent.
The point is, the charges against him were based solely on a Facebook post expressing an opinion and participation in a protest, fundamental first amendment activities that are supposed to be sacrosanct in this country. But apparently not for him. And along with spending five months in jail for a crime he didn’t commit, the consequences for Balogun were devastating. He lost his house and his car, his 15 year old son who was living with him prior to his arrest, had to leave school and move. And he missed the birth of his daughter. All of this because of speech posted on Facebook.
I guess the question is, would these charges even be possible, for example, if Facebook didn’t exist? Which is part of the fundamental question of the show. We already know that social media platforms like Facebook and Instagram monitor your preferences and interactions to sell the data to advertisers. We know that so-called surveillance capitalism has spawned some of the wealthiest corporations in history, and we know that many of the techniques and algorithms used to hold onto our attention are bolstered by media that engenders fear and distrust.
And now those same platforms are offering our opinions and discussion to an ever-growing law enforcement industry to hunt for potential charges of domestic terrorism. Are we supposed to accept that they both profit and criminalize our opinions and passions? Is this the final frontier for fortifying our [carceral 00:16:26] state, our thoughts? Have we finally reached the dystopian nightmares of a society where opinions are monitored and then criminalized for profit.
The point is that the evolution of technology that is supposed to connect us is also raising the specter of a Kafkaesque reality that seems more relevant than ever. I mean, think about the question Mr. Avery asked over and over again in the video. “What are the charges?” Think about the fact that appears from our own investigation, FBI agents based their entire case on a Facebook post that was wholly misunderstood.
Think about all the things you’ve posted, the opinions you’ve shared, what would happen if the FBI could parse them and decide to take away your freedom based solely on their interpretation of what you said. Think about what it means if they were free to track your associations, vacations, groups you’ve joined and pronouncements you’ve made. Sounds like The Trial on a daily basis.
I want to thank my guest, Franson Code, for his insights and for stepping forward to tell us about this industry from an insider perspective.
Franson: Taya, I appreciate you and Steven out there doing what you all do. Keep hitting the bricks and like, you all are, thank you.
Taya Graham: And I have to thank my Intrepid reporting partner, Steven Janis, for his writing, editing and reporting on this piece.
Stephen Janis: Taya, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Taya Graham: And I’d like to thank visual producer, Andrew Corkery for his research on this piece as well. And I would be remiss if I did not thank friend of the show, [Nollie D 00:17:56] , for her support. Thank you Nollie D.
And I want you watching to know that if you have evidence of police misconduct or brutality, please share it with us and we might be able to investigate. Please reach out to us. You can email us tips privately par@therealnews.com and share your evidence of police misconduct.
You can also message us at Police Accountability Report on Facebook or Instagram, or at Eyes on Police on Twitter. And of course you can message me directly at Tayas Baltimore on Twitter or Facebook. And please like and comment, you know I read your comments, appreciate them, and I try to answer your questions whenever I can.
My name is Taya Graham and I am your host of the Police Accountability Report. Please be safe out there.
Related
Republish This Story Republish our articles for free, online or in print, under a Creative Commons license.