therealnews--2020-04-17--Hegemonic Policing: The COVID-19 Law Enforcement Strategy

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Taya Graham : Hello , my name is Taya Graham and welcome to The Police Accountability Report .
Remember , this show has a single purpose , holding the politically powerful institution of policing accountable .
But we don ’ t stop there .
We also questioned the entire system that bolsters it , meaning capitalism , income inequality , and the political economy that makes it all work .
And for this show , we ’ re going to break this process down in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to show how the system has continued to grind through the crisis , showing little empathy or even rationality when it comes to COVID-19 pandemic .
But before I get started , I want you watching know that if you have evidence of police misconduct or brutality , please share it with us and we might be able to investigate .
Please reach out to us .
You can email us tips privately at [ email protected ] and share your evidence of police misconduct .
Or you can message me directly on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s out of the way .
Now , for those of you who watched our last show , you will remember this , six cops making a minor arrest of a man they suspected , but could not prove , had been driving while intoxicated .
The arrest was captured by The Real News photo journalist , Cameron Granadino .
But we did some digging on what happened and thanks to one of our viewers , we uncovered some more details .
Now you might ask why .
Why should we continue @ @ @ @ @ @ @ all the other chaos of a major pandemic ?
It ’ s a good question , and I ’ ll answer it .
This week the state of Maryland announced its first death of an inmate due to the coronavirus , and Maryland is not alone .
Across the country , dozens of inmates have died due to COVID-19 while in prison .
In other words , the process of law enforcement in this country has far reaching consequences .
The continued prosecution of minor arrests amid a crisis reveals an aspect of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ worth highlighting and must be fully understood .
Because it is here , in this minor arrest , we see all the negative aspects of over-policing and mass incarceration writ large .
First , I ’ m going to ask my colleague , Stephen Janis , what he has found out and what he has learned about this case .
Stephen , what have you learned ?
Stephen Janis : Well , one of our viewers was very kind to get us the radio scan information from this particular stop on April 1st @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a little bit information .
Number one , what ’ s very interesting is we did discover his name and it appears that there had been no charges filed against this person .
If you look on the scanner information , the next day they said they were going to charge him for assaulting a cop , but that never panned out .
Basically , as far as we know , despite having six officers sit there and pile him in the back of the van , he never went to jail .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ deadly shooting just a few blocks away , correct ?
Stephen Janis : Well , it ’ s amazing , Taya , 16 shots were fired literally three blocks west of where this arrest was going .
Six cops were taking care of this guy who presented no threat to public safety , and there was a murder three blocks away at the exact same time .
It was really a crazy allocation of resources .
Taya Graham : Now , Stephen , we discussed an interesting theory of American law enforcement on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of policing , the idea that there are two specific types of American policing that have evolved ; one constructive , focused on solving crimes ; and one hegemonic , focused on protecting social power .
In which category does this arrest fit and why ?
Stephen Janis : Well , I think you can look at the contracting situations , shooting three blocks away , which police ignore ; six cops to take a guy who they say was drunk but then never charge and apparently didn ’ t give him a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ point is that what that was about was about constructing the rhetorical power of police in the most visible way possible , this symbolic presence of police in the absence of crime .
Meanwhile , contrasting that is a crime a few blocks down that they didn ’ t pay any attention to .
Clearly , we have an example of hegemonic policing that you can see clearly .
Taya Graham : But to emphasize how consequential hegemonic policing can be , we want to go back to a story we reported last @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a local businessman who had been harassed by police .
His name is Sean Weston .
He ’ s a long-time Baltimore resident who ran several local convenience stores that have been targeted for raids nine times .
Why ?
Because they said he was selling items like baby laxative that could be used to cut narcotics , but he argues was perfectly legal .
Sean Weston : And like I said , you come in my store , you ’ ll clearly see , the first thing as you come to a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ let people know that I don ’ t sell products for any illegal purposes .
Taya Graham : In fact , police raided his business so often , he filed a lawsuit claiming harassment , which he won .
The reason we got in touch with Sean was due to his efforts to open a community center in Baltimore .
When he spoke about it , he felt it was a way he could give back .
Sean Weston : Young guys to maybe get a job and give them something positive , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ their own community .
That ’ s the whole purpose , it ’ s supposed to give a safe haven .
Taya Graham : But the country ’ s relentless war on drugs would eventually intervene .
First , Weston ’ s store was raided , again , as you can see in this video .
And then he was arrested , this time by the feds who alleged his sale of items , that were legal , still made him part of a broader conspiracy .
They didn ’ t accuse him @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
But now since the federal system does not have bail , he is sitting in prison awaiting trial , a sitting duck as COVID-19 spreads throughout the D.C. jail where he is housed .
To get an update on his situation , we are joined by his fiance , Lachelle Lee .
Lachelle , thank you so much for taking the time to join us .
Lachelle Lee : Sure , no problem .
Thank you guys so much .
Taya Graham : Sean had been in prison for almost 10 months @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and you ?
Lachelle Lee : It has been really , really , really difficulty .
Not just with myself but also with the 10 kids that he has .
Him and I have two kids together , but he also has of the kids .
It has been really hard from the time that they came in the house .
I ’ m going to say maybe a month or two after that , my youngest son , he goes to therapy and he also sees a psychiatrist for that type of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ happened because they came in with guns and everything .
It ’ s been really hard on us and I know with some people they feel like okay , 10 months is not a long time , but it ’ s a long time when someone has been with you for so many years , every day .
That ’ s a long time .
And then knowing every day that they call , that they still not coming home or you can ’ t see them .
They still so far away @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s some type of prisoner , that he had served time .
He been in jail forever and he has not been in jail .
This his first time ever having an offense that he actually had to sit in jail .
Taya Graham : What are your concerns for his safety with the coronavirus spreading ?
Lachelle Lee : It ’ s hard .
He has been in the medics almost other month or every other week .
I might hear him say , “ Oh , I done went to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s swelling , ” or “ My asthma ’ s acting up , ” or “ I don ’ t feel good.
” He can ’ t breathe .
Then he ’ s telling me that they don ’ t have the proper cleaning stuff to clean up behind themselves .
We can keep six feet away , but they can ’ t .
Taya Graham : He described horrible conditions with no water in lockdown .
What has he told you ?
Isn ’ t he in a way being punished @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
Lachelle Lee : Yes .
That is definitely what ’ s going on .
They turned water off .
If I send him letters , he don ’ t get his letters till almost three to four weeks after the fact , so that ’ s like a month later .
Like he said , they turned the water off .
They ’ re not getting any soap .
They can ’ t use the bathroom .
They ’ re not getting that medical attention that they supposed to get when they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s hurting or something ’ s wrong with him , he can ’ t even go to see a medic .
They ’ ll just look at him and said , “ Oh , you okay .
You fine.
” And he told me one time that the doctor inside of the jail told him that , “ Oh , you ’ re a young man .
You shouldn ’ t be complaining about your chest hurting or anything .
You should be okay.
” And then now he just told me @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sudden just told him that he ’ s not doing a motion for his trial and everything .
He ’ s not filing a motion .
And it ’ s just so much that it ’ s just like they ’ re treating him as if he ’ s this… I mean , like I said , like he ’ s some hardcore criminal- Taya Graham : Now just to elaborate on how devastating the consequences of hegemonic policing can be , our next guest knows just how difficult it is to hold @ @ @ @ @ @ @ making minor arrests that can have devastating consequences .
Her name is to Tawanda Jones .
Her brother was killed by police in 2013 during a routine traffic stop .
Officers beat Tyrone West for 45 minutes after they pulled him over for making a U-turn .
The ordeal led to his death and accusations of murder .
But his sister , Tawanda , has been tireless in trying to hold the officers who killed him accountable .
For seven years , she has gathered every Wednesday in Baltimore to demand justice for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ joins me to discuss her efforts and what she thinks about American policing .
Tawanda , thank you so much for joining me .
Tawanda Jones : Thank you so much for having me .
Taya Graham : Tawanda , tell me about some of the actions you ’ ve seen recently by police that have troubled you , for example , the video of the coughing cop came from our city .
Tawanda Jones : Yeah .
Basically , when I saw that video of the cop coughing on folks , it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what you know .
And the reason why it broke my heart , because actually with people not taking the pandemic seriously right now , that could have been a teachable moment .
Him being in a leadership position , he could have easily went out there and advocated and made sure that everybody was doing social distancing type of thing .
And then the young lady that spoke to him , she spoke nicely .
She didn ’ t say anything disrespecting .
All she said , “ Hey , Officer Friendly @ @ @ @ @ @ @ cheeks , ” or something like that .
It was like one of those joyous things , I ’ m happy to see you type of things .
And that was just response ?
That was devastating .
Taya Graham : Now , the theme of this show is police accountability , and you have been doing so much in our city for police accountability .
Tell us how long you ’ ve been protesting your brother ’ s death in the hands of police ?
Tawanda Jones : Actually I ’ ve @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Right now , I made the decision to actually , because West Wednesday , in case people don ’ t know it is a protest that ’ s going on , going on for seven years , but it ’ s an outdoor protest .
But because of the Corona-19 virus and this pandemic that ’ s going on , we actually made the right choice to actually bring it inside .
We ’ re actually connecting with folks all around the world .
Even though I wouldn ’ t wish anybody @ @ @ @ @ @ @ m actually bringing folks that I basically and I met when I ’ ve been traveling all around the world advocating for police brutality .
Taya Graham : Tawanda , I know this is painful , but can you share the story of what happened to your brother so people understand why you started West Wednesdays ?
Tawanda Jones : Basically , what happened to my brother , it ’ s a nightmare , and I wouldn ’ t wish this type of pain with anyone .
On July 18 , 2013 , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , because any day my brother was living and breathing was a beautiful day .
I basically had just purchased a green Mercedes Benz and I didn ’ t have it even less than three months .
But I caught myself letting my brother drive my car to and from work , and he would also take we to work as well , but I thought it was a safe haven .
Long story short , within a half hour of brother literally drop me off in front of my door , me @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be the last time I locked eyes with my brother .
But nevertheless , he dropped me off and within a half hour , he was actually brutally murdered .
And the first two killer cops , Nicholas Davis Chapman and Officer Ruiz , they were the first two at my vehicle that actually started pulling my brother out by his dreadlocks .
And these are eye witnesses that told us this .
I heard cyber witnesses on the news [ inaudible 00:12:13 ] actually video footage that me and my family probably @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of my brother .
Because they said the person that has that video was threatened by the police and actually moved out of state .
I don ’ t know whoever he is , but if he hears me and is watching this , please , I urge you , don ’ t be afraid .
Please turn over that video .
Please , because we ’ d been out here fighting for accountability going on seven years , and I don ’ t care if takes another 70 years .
Taya Graham @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you something so painful , but can you tell us what witnesses saw police do to your brother ?
Tawanda Jones : Basically , the witnesses describe that my brother was first pulled out the car by Chapman .
They said that my brother pulled over .
First of all , they said Chapman and Ruiz were in an unmarked car , so my brother wasn ’ t even sure why he was even being pulled over .
Once he acknowledged that they were officers , he stopped by the stop sign .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ said my brother had his hands out the window .
He turned on the console in my car , so that way you can see , “ Hey , I ’ m unarmed .
I don ’ t know why you ’ re you pulling me over , but I ’ m going to abide by the law and be respectful.
” He had his out the window .
They say that Chapman came to the window and immediately , pulled my brother .
My brother ’ s like , “ Why are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ said , “ This is what we do to you , N-word.
” My brother ’ s like , “ What ?
” And before he could even say a response other than “ what ” , he was pulled out by his dreadlocks .
He started being pepper sprayed , tased , kicked , stomped and everything .
Witnesses said that they came out and they tried to assist my brother , but they too were threatened .
They were threatened with such vile language , I won ’ t dare use @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Get the F back in your house ” type of thing .
“ This can happen to you.
” And there was a dozen or more witnesses that actually saw the brutal beating of my brother .
The way they described it , they said that , some type of signal 13 came out where it allowed a bunch of other officers to come .
And at moment , my brother ’ s running because he ’ s trying to breathe .
He ’ s running because it ’ s fight or flight @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to fight you .
I ’ m trying to survive.
” He ’ s screaming , “ Help .
Help.
” [ inaudible 00:14:25 ] he ’ s yelling a victim name , right .
He ’ s screaming for help .
“ Help .
Help.
” And before you know it , they said at least about 11 or 15 officers or more was pepper… They said that he got beat from one side of the street to the opposite side of the street , kicked , stomped and everything .
Tased @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , just brutally beat to death .
And then the saddest part after he ’ s brutally beat to death , he ’ s basically gasping for air .
He was then thrown into a prone position , face down after being pepper sprayed with chemicals .
Faced down , tased and he ’ s face down on the ground .
He can ’ t breathe or anything , handcuffed .
His hands and his feet are meeting in the center of back .
That ’ s the hog position , in which @ @ @ @ @ @ @ David Lewis from Morgan State University crashed his vehicle into Chapman and Ruiz ’ s unmarked car to actually come… not to help my brother , but to actually come to the scene to set his 315 pounds weight on an unarmed man that was gasping for air until my brother was no longer breathing .
He was dead on Kitmore and Kelway .
Taya Graham : Now , as all my guests have demonstrated , policing in America is dangerous and often lethal .
The continued practice of aggressive policing ruins lives @ @ @ @ @ @ @ officers themselves .
And so given just how consequential it is , we have to ask the question , why do we keep doing it ?
Why did six cops spend an hour arresting a man while a deadly shooting happened blocks away ?
Why did a dozen cops beat Tyrone West to death when a crime had not been committed ?
And why is a man in jail for selling legal items , his life at risk , without even a prospect of having his day in court ?
Well , I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with power as we discussed before .
Projecting social power to stifle dissent , not solving crime .
It has to do with protecting and projecting the power of an institution , not making a community safer .
I think it ’ s clear the reason we keep experiencing these kinds of inexplicable acts is because in some sense American policing is doing exactly what it ’ s designed to do : protecting the interests of the powerful , rich and elite ; to make the inadequacy of a system that has failed @ @ @ @ @ @ @ inevitable .
As we ’ ve said more than once on this show , policing is not just about law enforcement .
It is a purveyor of the narrative about us , the story that the average American is somehow at fault for declining incomes and a massive redistribution of wealth .
Thus , we have hegemonic policing .
I want you to think about this .
It ’ s a point we ’ ve made before , but worth repeating .
If you watch American television over and over the past couple @ @ @ @ @ @ @ treated to an onslaught of cop shows .
And in an all of them , almost to a fault , police are depicted essentially his heroes , brave warriors standing on the line between us and chaos .
But thus far and one of the worst crises in recent history , chaos has hardly been the problem .
As we ’ ve already noted on the show , crime is actually down , albeit as of now , and things of course could change .
But more importantly is how the pandemic is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ by police propaganda is .
How much of our civil rights and civic treasure we ’ ve apportioned to police out anxiety , propagated by this onslaught .
Think about it .
Millions of Americans are now unemployed .
Tens of millions of Americans do not have health insurance .
Where has all the money gone , and why does the richest country on the planet failed to provide the most basic safeguards for its citizens ?
I ’ m not going to overstate the problem that policing is the only cause , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ problem .
It is a significant contributor to the political instability and social anxiety that ultimately makes us fearful ; fearful of each other and fearful of ourselves .
And it ’ s through that irrational sense of fear that we are left with the crisis we see today : a government ill-equipped to deal with a deadly pandemic , a society that [ fomated 00:18:32 ] a fear of ourselves and is now paying the price .
How do I know this ?
Well , consider the case of the coughing cop @ @ @ @ @ @ @ caught on video coughing on residents in Baltimore ’ s Perkin Homes Housing Projects .
Since the story had garnered media attention , police have finally responded to questions about the officer .
Was he punished ?
Charged internally ?
Was his name released ?
No , he was reassigned .
Enough said .
I want to thank my guest to Tawanda Jones for her work to protect families from police brutality .
Thank you so much for joining us Tawanda .
And I want to thank Lachelle Lee for taking the time @ @ @ @ @ @ @ her loved one is enduring in prison .
Thank you , Lachelle .
And of course , I want to thank my cohost Stephen Janis for his reporting , editing and writing .
Thank you , Stephen .
Stephen Janis : Taya , thank you so much for having me on .
We ’ re going to keep reporting .
Thanks for having me .
Taya Graham : And I would be remiss if I did not think , friend of the show , Noli Dee for her support and help .
Thanks @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you watching to know that if you do have evidence of police misconduct or brutality , please share it with us and we might be able to investigate .
Please reach out to us .
You can email us privately at [ email protected ] .
Ensure your evidence of police misconduct .
You can also message us @ policeaccountabilityreport on Facebook or Instagram or @ eyesonpolice on Twitter .
And of course you can message me directly @ tayasbaltimore on Twitter or Facebook .
And please like , share and comment .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ appreciate them , and I try to answer questions whenever I can .
I ’ m your host , Taya Graham , and I want to thank you for joining me for The Police Accountability Report .
Please be safe out there .

The Police Accountability Report talks with two victims of mass incarceration and police brutality, and reveals a distinct theory of how American policing has evolved to dangerous ends.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Taya Graham: Hello, my name is Taya Graham and welcome to The Police Accountability Report. Remember, this show has a single purpose, holding the politically powerful institution of policing accountable. But we don’t stop there. We also questioned the entire system that bolsters it, meaning capitalism, income inequality, and the political economy that makes it all work. And for this show, we’re going to break this process down in all its splendor. We are going to show how the system has continued to grind through the crisis, showing little empathy or even rationality when it comes to COVID-19 pandemic.
But before I get started, I want you watching know that if you have evidence of police misconduct or brutality, please share it with us and we might be able to investigate. Please reach out to us. You can email us tips privately at par@therealnews.com and share your evidence of police misconduct. Or you can message me directly on Twitter or Facebook @tayasbaltimore. That’s out of the way.
Now, for those of you who watched our last show, you will remember this, six cops making a minor arrest of a man they suspected, but could not prove, had been driving while intoxicated. The arrest was captured by The Real News photo journalist, Cameron Granadino. But we did some digging on what happened and thanks to one of our viewers, we uncovered some more details. Now you might ask why. Why should we continue to investigate a minor arrest and then all the other chaos of a major pandemic? It’s a good question, and I’ll answer it.
This week the state of Maryland announced its first death of an inmate due to the coronavirus, and Maryland is not alone. Across the country, dozens of inmates have died due to COVID-19 while in prison. In other words, the process of law enforcement in this country has far reaching consequences. The continued prosecution of minor arrests amid a crisis reveals an aspect of our criminal justice system, which is worth highlighting and must be fully understood. Because it is here, in this minor arrest, we see all the negative aspects of over-policing and mass incarceration writ large.
First, I’m going to ask my colleague, Stephen Janis, what he has found out and what he has learned about this case. Stephen, what have you learned?
Stephen Janis: Well, one of our viewers was very kind to get us the radio scan information from this particular stop on April 1st, and so we’ve got a little bit information. Number one, what’s very interesting is we did discover his name and it appears that there had been no charges filed against this person. If you look on the scanner information, the next day they said they were going to charge him for assaulting a cop, but that never panned out. Basically, as far as we know, despite having six officers sit there and pile him in the back of the van, he never went to jail.
Taya Graham: Now there was a deadly shooting just a few blocks away, correct?
Stephen Janis: Well, it’s amazing, Taya, 16 shots were fired literally three blocks west of where this arrest was going. Six cops were taking care of this guy who presented no threat to public safety, and there was a murder three blocks away at the exact same time. It was really a crazy allocation of resources.
Taya Graham: Now, Stephen, we discussed an interesting theory of American law enforcement on our last show, the hegemonic theory of policing, the idea that there are two specific types of American policing that have evolved; one constructive, focused on solving crimes; and one hegemonic, focused on protecting social power. In which category does this arrest fit and why?
Stephen Janis: Well, I think you can look at the contracting situations, shooting three blocks away, which police ignore; six cops to take a guy who they say was drunk but then never charge and apparently didn’t give him a sobriety test on the scene. The point is that what that was about was about constructing the rhetorical power of police in the most visible way possible, this symbolic presence of police in the absence of crime. Meanwhile, contrasting that is a crime a few blocks down that they didn’t pay any attention to. Clearly, we have an example of hegemonic policing that you can see clearly.
Taya Graham: But to emphasize how consequential hegemonic policing can be, we want to go back to a story we reported last year. It was a tale of a local businessman who had been harassed by police. His name is Sean Weston. He’s a long-time Baltimore resident who ran several local convenience stores that have been targeted for raids nine times. Why? Because they said he was selling items like baby laxative that could be used to cut narcotics, but he argues was perfectly legal.
Sean Weston: And like I said, you come in my store, you’ll clearly see, the first thing as you come to a counter, I try my best to let people know that I don’t sell products for any illegal purposes.
Taya Graham: In fact, police raided his business so often, he filed a lawsuit claiming harassment, which he won. The reason we got in touch with Sean was due to his efforts to open a community center in Baltimore. When he spoke about it, he felt it was a way he could give back.
Sean Weston: Young guys to maybe get a job and give them something positive, something structural that they can do in their own community. That’s the whole purpose, it’s supposed to give a safe haven.
Taya Graham: But the country’s relentless war on drugs would eventually intervene. First, Weston’s store was raided, again, as you can see in this video. And then he was arrested, this time by the feds who alleged his sale of items, that were legal, still made him part of a broader conspiracy. They didn’t accuse him of dealing drugs or any other crimes. But now since the federal system does not have bail, he is sitting in prison awaiting trial, a sitting duck as COVID-19 spreads throughout the D.C. jail where he is housed. To get an update on his situation, we are joined by his fiance, Lachelle Lee. Lachelle, thank you so much for taking the time to join us.
Lachelle Lee: Sure, no problem. Thank you guys so much.
Taya Graham: Sean had been in prison for almost 10 months now. How has this impacted him and you?
Lachelle Lee: It has been really, really, really difficulty. Not just with myself but also with the 10 kids that he has. Him and I have two kids together, but he also has of the kids. It has been really hard from the time that they came in the house. I’m going to say maybe a month or two after that, my youngest son, he goes to therapy and he also sees a psychiatrist for that type of, I guess, that situation that happened because they came in with guns and everything.
It’s been really hard on us and I know with some people they feel like okay, 10 months is not a long time, but it’s a long time when someone has been with you for so many years, every day. That’s a long time. And then knowing every day that they call, that they still not coming home or you can’t see them. They still so far away, and they treating him like he’s some type of prisoner, that he had served time. He been in jail forever and he has not been in jail. This his first time ever having an offense that he actually had to sit in jail.
Taya Graham: What are your concerns for his safety with the coronavirus spreading?
Lachelle Lee: It’s hard. He has been in the medics almost other month or every other week. I might hear him say, “Oh, I done went to the medic. Oh, my leg’s swelling,” or “My asthma’s acting up,” or “I don’t feel good.” He can’t breathe. Then he’s telling me that they don’t have the proper cleaning stuff to clean up behind themselves. We can keep six feet away, but they can’t.
Taya Graham: He described horrible conditions with no water in lockdown. What has he told you? Isn’t he in a way being punished before being found guilty of a crime?
Lachelle Lee: Yes. That is definitely what’s going on. They turned water off. If I send him letters, he don’t get his letters till almost three to four weeks after the fact, so that’s like a month later. Like he said, they turned the water off. They’re not getting any soap. They can’t use the bathroom. They’re not getting that medical attention that they supposed to get when they’re locked up. If he’s hurting or something’s wrong with him, he can’t even go to see a medic. They’ll just look at him and said, “Oh, you okay. You fine.”
And he told me one time that the doctor inside of the jail told him that, “Oh, you’re a young man. You shouldn’t be complaining about your chest hurting or anything. You should be okay.” And then now he just told me that the judge just all of a sudden just told him that he’s not doing a motion for his trial and everything. He’s not filing a motion. And it’s just so much that it’s just like they’re treating him as if he’s this… I mean, like I said, like he’s some hardcore criminal-
Taya Graham: Now just to elaborate on how devastating the consequences of hegemonic policing can be, our next guest knows just how difficult it is to hold police accountable and why police are still making minor arrests that can have devastating consequences. Her name is to Tawanda Jones. Her brother was killed by police in 2013 during a routine traffic stop. Officers beat Tyrone West for 45 minutes after they pulled him over for making a U-turn. The ordeal led to his death and accusations of murder.
But his sister, Tawanda, has been tireless in trying to hold the officers who killed him accountable. For seven years, she has gathered every Wednesday in Baltimore to demand justice for her brother. And today, she joins me to discuss her efforts and what she thinks about American policing. Tawanda, thank you so much for joining me.
Tawanda Jones: Thank you so much for having me.
Taya Graham: Tawanda, tell me about some of the actions you’ve seen recently by police that have troubled you, for example, the video of the coughing cop came from our city.
Tawanda Jones: Yeah. Basically, when I saw that video of the cop coughing on folks, it broke my heart in more ways than what you know. And the reason why it broke my heart, because actually with people not taking the pandemic seriously right now, that could have been a teachable moment. Him being in a leadership position, he could have easily went out there and advocated and made sure that everybody was doing social distancing type of thing.
And then the young lady that spoke to him, she spoke nicely. She didn’t say anything disrespecting. All she said, “Hey, Officer Friendly with the big, red, bright cheeks,” or something like that. It was like one of those joyous things, I’m happy to see you type of things. And that was just response? That was devastating.
Taya Graham: Now, the theme of this show is police accountability, and you have been doing so much in our city for police accountability. Tell us how long you’ve been protesting your brother’s death in the hands of police?
Tawanda Jones: Actually I’ve been now protesting for 349 weeks nonstop. Right now, I made the decision to actually, because West Wednesday, in case people don’t know it is a protest that’s going on, going on for seven years, but it’s an outdoor protest. But because of the Corona-19 virus and this pandemic that’s going on, we actually made the right choice to actually bring it inside. We’re actually connecting with folks all around the world. Even though I wouldn’t wish anybody into this world, but I’m actually bringing folks that I basically and I met when I’ve been traveling all around the world advocating for police brutality.
Taya Graham: Tawanda, I know this is painful, but can you share the story of what happened to your brother so people understand why you started West Wednesdays?
Tawanda Jones: Basically, what happened to my brother, it’s a nightmare, and I wouldn’t wish this type of pain with anyone. On July 18, 2013, what started off as a beautiful day, because any day my brother was living and breathing was a beautiful day. I basically had just purchased a green Mercedes Benz and I didn’t have it even less than three months. But I caught myself letting my brother drive my car to and from work, and he would also take we to work as well, but I thought it was a safe haven. Long story short, within a half hour of brother literally drop me off in front of my door, me not knowing that this was going to be the last time I locked eyes with my brother.
But nevertheless, he dropped me off and within a half hour, he was actually brutally murdered. And the first two killer cops, Nicholas Davis Chapman and Officer Ruiz, they were the first two at my vehicle that actually started pulling my brother out by his dreadlocks. And these are eye witnesses that told us this. I heard cyber witnesses on the news [inaudible 00:12:13] actually video footage that me and my family probably will never see the actual brutal beating of my brother. Because they said the person that has that video was threatened by the police and actually moved out of state. I don’t know whoever he is, but if he hears me and is watching this, please, I urge you, don’t be afraid. Please turn over that video. Please, because we’d been out here fighting for accountability going on seven years, and I don’t care if takes another 70 years.
Taya Graham: I’m sorry to ask you something so painful, but can you tell us what witnesses saw police do to your brother?
Tawanda Jones: Basically, the witnesses describe that my brother was first pulled out the car by Chapman. They said that my brother pulled over. First of all, they said Chapman and Ruiz were in an unmarked car, so my brother wasn’t even sure why he was even being pulled over. Once he acknowledged that they were officers, he stopped by the stop sign. And when he pulled over, they said my brother had his hands out the window. He turned on the console in my car, so that way you can see, “Hey, I’m unarmed. I don’t know why you’re you pulling me over, but I’m going to abide by the law and be respectful.” He had his out the window.
They say that Chapman came to the window and immediately, pulled my brother. My brother’s like, “Why are you pulling me over?” He said, “This is what we do to you, N-word.” My brother’s like, “What?” And before he could even say a response other than “what”, he was pulled out by his dreadlocks. He started being pepper sprayed, tased, kicked, stomped and everything. Witnesses said that they came out and they tried to assist my brother, but they too were threatened. They were threatened with such vile language, I won’t dare use. They was threatened with, “Get the F back in your house” type of thing. “This can happen to you.”
And there was a dozen or more witnesses that actually saw the brutal beating of my brother. The way they described it, they said that, some type of signal 13 came out where it allowed a bunch of other officers to come. And at moment, my brother’s running because he’s trying to breathe. He’s running because it’s fight or flight. “I’m not going to fight you. I’m trying to survive.” He’s screaming, “Help. Help.” [inaudible 00:14:25] he’s yelling a victim name, right. He’s screaming for help. “Help. Help.” And before you know it, they said at least about 11 or 15 officers or more was pepper… They said that he got beat from one side of the street to the opposite side of the street, kicked, stomped and everything. Tased in his neck three times. Stomped, just brutally beat to death.
And then the saddest part after he’s brutally beat to death, he’s basically gasping for air. He was then thrown into a prone position, face down after being pepper sprayed with chemicals. Faced down, tased and he’s face down on the ground. He can’t breathe or anything, handcuffed. His hands and his feet are meeting in the center of back. That’s the hog position, in which he was basically placed. And then David Lewis from Morgan State University crashed his vehicle into Chapman and Ruiz’s unmarked car to actually come… not to help my brother, but to actually come to the scene to set his 315 pounds weight on an unarmed man that was gasping for air until my brother was no longer breathing. He was dead on Kitmore and Kelway.
Taya Graham: Now, as all my guests have demonstrated, policing in America is dangerous and often lethal. The continued practice of aggressive policing ruins lives and endangers us all, including the officers themselves. And so given just how consequential it is, we have to ask the question, why do we keep doing it? Why did six cops spend an hour arresting a man while a deadly shooting happened blocks away? Why did a dozen cops beat Tyrone West to death when a crime had not been committed? And why is a man in jail for selling legal items, his life at risk, without even a prospect of having his day in court?
Well, I think it has a lot to do with power as we discussed before. Projecting social power to stifle dissent, not solving crime. It has to do with protecting and projecting the power of an institution, not making a community safer. I think it’s clear the reason we keep experiencing these kinds of inexplicable acts is because in some sense American policing is doing exactly what it’s designed to do: protecting the interests of the powerful, rich and elite; to make the inadequacy of a system that has failed to protect us from a virus seem inevitable. As we’ve said more than once on this show, policing is not just about law enforcement. It is a purveyor of the narrative about us, the story that the average American is somehow at fault for declining incomes and a massive redistribution of wealth. Thus, we have hegemonic policing.
I want you to think about this. It’s a point we’ve made before, but worth repeating. If you watch American television over and over the past couple of decades, you’ve been treated to an onslaught of cop shows. And in an all of them, almost to a fault, police are depicted essentially his heroes, brave warriors standing on the line between us and chaos. But thus far and one of the worst crises in recent history, chaos has hardly been the problem. As we’ve already noted on the show, crime is actually down, albeit as of now, and things of course could change.
But more importantly is how the pandemic is showing just how harmful the fear generated by police propaganda is. How much of our civil rights and civic treasure we’ve apportioned to police out anxiety, propagated by this onslaught. Think about it. Millions of Americans are now unemployed. Tens of millions of Americans do not have health insurance. Where has all the money gone, and why does the richest country on the planet failed to provide the most basic safeguards for its citizens?
I’m not going to overstate the problem that policing is the only cause, but it is certainly part of the problem. It is a significant contributor to the political instability and social anxiety that ultimately makes us fearful; fearful of each other and fearful of ourselves. And it’s through that irrational sense of fear that we are left with the crisis we see today: a government ill-equipped to deal with a deadly pandemic, a society that [fomated 00:18:32] a fear of ourselves and is now paying the price.
How do I know this? Well, consider the case of the coughing cop we discussed last week. He was caught on video coughing on residents in Baltimore’s Perkin Homes Housing Projects. Since the story had garnered media attention, police have finally responded to questions about the officer. Was he punished? Charged internally? Was his name released? No, he was reassigned. Enough said.
I want to thank my guest to Tawanda Jones for her work to protect families from police brutality. Thank you so much for joining us Tawanda. And I want to thank Lachelle Lee for taking the time to speak with us and share what her loved one is enduring in prison. Thank you, Lachelle. And of course, I want to thank my cohost Stephen Janis for his reporting, editing and writing. Thank you, Stephen.
Stephen Janis: Taya, thank you so much for having me on. We’re going to keep reporting. Thanks for having me.
Taya Graham: And I would be remiss if I did not think, friend of the show, Noli Dee for her support and help. Thanks, Noli Dee.
And I want you watching to know that if you do have evidence of police misconduct or brutality, please share it with us and we might be able to investigate. Please reach out to us. You can email us privately at par@therealnews.com. Ensure your evidence of police misconduct. You can also message us @policeaccountabilityreport on Facebook or Instagram or @eyesonpolice on Twitter. And of course you can message me directly @tayasbaltimore on Twitter or Facebook. And please like, share and comment. You know I read your comments, appreciate them, and I try to answer questions whenever I can.
I’m your host, Taya Graham, and I want to thank you for joining me for The Police Accountability Report. Please be safe out there.
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therealnews--2020-04-17--LGBTQIA People Face Unique Barriers To COVID-19 Care

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Kim Brown : Welcome to The Real News .
I ’ m Kim Brown .
Marginalized communities are being hit hardest by the COVID-19 pandemic , including the disabled , black , and indigenous populations .
But what about the gay community ?
Historically , facing societal scorn , neglect , and violence , the LGBTQIA community faces unique barriers in accessing care .
So to get some more details about that and to understand exactly how this community is being impacted during the pandemic @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the line with Bre Kidman .
Bre is the first non-binary person in US history to run for the Senate .
They are an attorney , activist , and artist in Maine and are seeking the Democratic nomination to oppose Susan Collins this fall for the US Senate seat .
And Bre joins us today from Southern Maine .
Bre , thank you so much for being here .
Bre Kidman : Thanks for having me .
Kim Brown : So there ’ s a lot to get into this discussion .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ when it comes to getting healthcare , when it comes to getting a diagnosis .
Obviously the pandemic is putting more pressure on many marginalized communities , but how is the gay community feeling this uniquely ?
Bre Kidman : So I ’ m going to borrow this from a headline from a piece that I talked to someone about a week or two ago and that ’ s that the Coronavirus isn ’ t transphobic , but our healthcare system is .
So the 2015 US Trans Survey gave us some really @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and their access to healthcare in that I think it was one in five , and I don ’ t have the statistics in front of me , I ’ m sorry , but I think it was one in five people who are trans who have been turned away from doctor ’ s office for care regardless of whether that care is related to transition purposes .
The end result is that particularly trans people , and I think across the broader LGBTQ community , healthcare access has been a problem .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ access to care for this specific pandemic , you see states where they ’ ve expanded , all insurance carriers must cover testing .
But if you don ’ t have insurance that doesn ’ t help you .
In addition to just animus based provider discrimination or provider discrimination based on lack of knowledge .
We see people who we get denied care because doctors don ’ t know how that ’ ll interact with hormones .
And these are standards of care that have been out for a long time .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ But there are a lot of medical professionals who just say , “ No , I don ’ t treat people who are like that , ” and kind of are skittish about it .
And that ’ s not to say that everyone is , but when we ’ re talking about discrimination , this is a population of people who already face a high barrier of care for even basic health care services .
So we see concerns about just going to the doctor .
I think it ’ s one @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to the doctor for regular care .
So kind of a hesitancy about receiving medical care .
But also reluctance on the part of the provider .
And also a darker realm of thinking that I hesitate to even say out loud because it makes me anxious that I might bring it into existence by saying it , but the idea that guidelines about prioritization for things like ventilators notably doesn ’ t include discrimination on the basis of gender identity .
So there aren ’ t protections in place for the trans @ @ @ @ @ @ @ decisions that are life and death in this crisis being made .
Kim Brown : And I want to apologize because I did not mean to conflate the gay community and the trans community .
I know they ’ re under a big umbrella together , but the issues are very different and unique .
So let me apologize for conflating the two .
But I wanted to follow up because I know you say you didn ’ t have exact statistics , but I ’ m curious whether or not people have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ their individual experiences with the medical community , I guess pre-COVID and now post-COVID .
Bre Kidman : Yeah , anecdotally , most of the people I know have experienced some form of provider discrimination even over the last five years , some form of , “ I have to find a new doctor because my doctor doesn ’ t know how to deal with transition.
” But also post-COVID , I ’ ve heard from a number of non-binary people , even just in the state of Maine , where there ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ around from the main CDC , and they ’ ll ask , “ Do you identify… Or are you a man or are you a woman ?
Are you male or female ?
What ’ s your sex ?
” And I had a friend who said , “ Well I ’ m non binary , so neither.
” And they were like , “ Yeah , but what ’ s your legal gender ?
” And my friend said , “ Well Maine recognizes X gender .
That ’ s what it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
My gender is non binary.
” And they said , “ Okay , well thank you for your time , ” and hung up , disconnected the call , just didn ’ t want any further data from them .
And I think we see that also on a broader scale in terms of statistical data collection about COVID-19 .
This is a couple of weeks old now and this data is changing so rapidly , but a couple of weeks ago there were zero non-binary cases of COVID-19 , and I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ because there are no non-binary people who have had it .
I think that ’ s because there ’ s not data being collected on the basis of appropriate gender markers .
Kim Brown : So I want to talk to you about how your platform as you are running for Senate seeking to oppose Senator Susan Collins , who ’ s the longtime incumbent , she seems to have enemies like everywhere , no one seems to really like Susan Collins on either side of the aisle .
So I can see @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
But on a federal level , what can be done federally to ensure and guarantee the civil rights , the right to access for equal treatment by the medical community for gay , trans , and non-binary people ?
Bre Kidman : Well , so a couple , and there ’ s a couple of different routes that I could take with this , but the one that is kind of closest to me personally is we need representation at our federal level .
The proportionality of even gay and lesbian and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that represents the general population .
And there has never been a trans person in either the House or the Senate .
So there have been studies that have shown that having an LGBT person just in the room of a legislative body makes that legislative body more likely to pass legislation that is friendly towards LGBT people and less likely to pass discriminatory legislation against LGBT people .
And I think that ’ s because when legislators have to look someone in the eye before taking away their rights , it gets @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
So I think one of the biggest ways to get more legislation that is helpful for LGBTQ people is to let us make the legislation .
That said , I would be remiss if I didn ’ t say that Medicare For All would also go a long way for this .
If we had universal healthcare , if we weren ’ t wrestling with insurance companies and all the different corporate sets of values that come with different insurance providers around how we receive and get care paid for , if @ @ @ @ @ @ @ gets care , then I think it gets easier to address different disparities of care because we ’ re at a baseline where everyone gets care and so now the standards of care are… We assume everyone is going to be taken care of , how do we make sure that all of these different groups who have had health disparities are cared for appropriately ?
I think standards like W Path and kind of that greater awareness .
Could it be implemented in the current healthcare system ?
Yes .
Should it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
Yes .
And also if we ’ re not also wrangling with health insurance companies to figure out how the care is going to be paid for or what care each kind of person is worthy of receiving based on the tier of health insurance they get , it makes it a lot easier to make those decisions based on the wellbeing of the individual and not on the profit motive .
Having a program like Medicare For All creates opportunities to kind of cautify anti-discrimination provisions that have kind of been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Care Act , we ’ ve seen the Trump administration repeatedly try to walk back protections on the basis of gender identity and I think also sexual orientation .
So we ’ ve seen those protections kind of get poked at and chipped away at even if not necessarily kind of followed through on that destruction .
And I think when we have a baseline that is everyone receives care no matter who you are or how much money you have or what plan you have , everyone is we ’ re going @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Kim Brown : I hate to happen here because I wanted to ask you about Medicare For All , because as proposed by Senator Bernie Sanders , his Medicare For All proposal includes transitional surgeries for trans people and also access to mental health services for people who are going through that transition .
And it seems as if opposition to Medicare For All , perhaps by the Democratic establishment at large , not necessarily the progressive wing that Bernie Sanders represents , it could be perceived as homophobic .
Because their @ @ @ @ @ @ @ harm not just the gay and trans communities , but black community as well , a group of people who have historically been denied equal access to healthcare treatment and testing , etc .
Is it homophobic that Medicare For All is not being adopted by the Dem establishment ?
Bre Kidman : Yeah , in a broader sense , homophobic and transphobic , I think the way that I would frame that is by saying groups that are marginalized and things like employment and things like access to housing and things like @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that has a disparity with regard to access to wealth is being further marginalized by a lack of access to healthcare .
And so when we look at legislators who oppose Medicare For All , we ’ re looking at people who don ’ t actually want to close those disparities .
Those healthcare disparities are going to exist for as long as healthcare is tied to profit and access to wealth .
Kim Brown : You ’ re talking about institutional systemic issues and barriers that have been placed against entire communities @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
It ’ s only now that we are finally starting to flicker awake a little bit with how we view the value of bringing everyone and making sure that every person in this country , undocumented , regardless of the race , sexual orientation , etc.
, that people have access to basically what we paid for in America .
Bre Kidman : And I think it ’ s tough to talk about these things without looking at how they ’ re interconnected .
You see the LGBTQ people have higher rates @ @ @ @ @ @ @ You see that mass incarceration impacts access to future earnings .
All of these different things relate to one another .
And so in a society that bases your access to healthcare on your access to wealth , any of these different factors that impact access to wealth are necessarily going to impact access to healthcare .
And particularly now where we ’ re waiting for the Supreme Court to come back on whether you can discriminate against someone for being LGBTQ in the workplace , that disparity stands to actually get even @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Kim Brown : You know , I wanted to ask you about mutual aid in the time of a pandemic , how many marginalized communities are reaching out , engaging with one another , helping one another access food , medicine , a variety of essential needs that people rely on in order to survive .
And the gay and trans community is obviously no exception to that .
But honestly , between gay and trans communities , they have really set the bar for reaching out and helping one another , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ authority , were not accessible to them or not responsive to the needs of those communities .
And there were and are laws still on the books that actively discriminate .
So talk to us about the role that mutual aid and grassroots organizations are playing at this pivotal moment right now .
Bre Kidman : Yeah .
So if there is kind of a silver lining to the cloud of existing disparities that disadvantage LGBTQ people in this pandemic , I think that silver lining is that we ’ ve always had @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have a long and storied tradition of grassroots organizing , of coming together to care for our community , of building those networks to be supportive networks .
To some extent some of that infrastructure is already built for us .
And so we see that with those connections that exist .
You have community centers , you have community health centers , you have support groups .
And kind of in a lot of cities , at least in the Portland area where I live , there are already kind of those @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of people who are used to gathering to support one another as society fails to meet our needs .
And so that continues on through this .
I think those networks are a little strained , more strained than they would normally be because everyone is under a lot of strain right now .
But I think the fact that those things have always existed is kind of a resiliency that we have to leverage during this time .
Because connecting with your neighbors and making sure that your friends , your neighbors @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is something that we have always had to do .
Kim Brown : So let ’ s talk about the politics of the race right now .
You are in a race for the US Senate .
It should be an interesting fight there in Maine .
You have a number of different opponents .
And on your Facebook page you took a shot at one of your opponents , Sarah Gideon , in a post that she made about COVID-19 .
It included a link for donations to her campaign .
If @ @ @ @ @ @ @ campaign and what you have been doing to outreach to people and to help people during this very just unusual and critical time period that we find ourselves in .
Bre Kidman : Yeah .
So from the start of this race , really even one of the reasons that I am running or that I ’ m doing this is the idea that it is normal and expected to spend millions of dollars on advertising and millions of dollars on acquiring donor lists to get more money .
And the idea that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ much money you spend on objects that will ultimately be worthless at the end of the campaign , that that is how we judge viability and that ’ s how we judge the strength of a candidate , that makes me sick .
I can ’ t stand it .
And I wanted to change it .
I wanted to be the kind of candidate that I had hoped to see .
So I said , “ Okay , how do we do that ?
” And so from very early in this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ use kind of the seed money that we had gathered , which was less than $ 10,000 which is not a lot , but it ’ s not nothing , so to use that money to have fundraisers for local charities all over Maine in hopes that just doing good things in the community and having people talk about those good things , that doing good speaks for itself and is more powerful than another TV ad that says nothing .
And so as this crisis kind of unfolded in Maine , I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ t have a whole bunch of in-person fundraisers , and also I realized pretty quickly that there was going to be a need for direct support .
And so what I did was I signed up to be involved with a couple of mutual aid projects in my community .
And in doing so , basically what we ’ ve done instead of holding these fundraisers is use our campaign funds to directly provide for people who are struggling .
So I ’ ve done a bunch of grocery runs for people who @ @ @ @ @ @ @ store because they ’ re immunocompromised or otherwise struggle with transportation and can ’ t buy groceries .
So I ’ ve just gone and picked up groceries for them .
I ’ ve sent grocery cards to people who are having difficulty because they ’ re out of work .
And essentially we ’ re just using the funds that we have to provide for people .
And the thing is , yeah , I can go a pretty long way with , I think it was around $ 6,000 .
But @ @ @ @ @ @ @ had millions of dollars put even $ 100,000 into this , how much further it would go ?
They ’ re making these videos saying , “ We ’ re solving this crisis , we ’ re in this together.
” But they ’ re still asking you to give you their money .
They ’ re not giving anything back to you .
And I think that ’ s disingenuous .
And frankly , I think it ’ s gross .
Why would you trust someone who comes to you with their @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of our population is unemployed and struggling right now ?
I think that the fact that that ’ s , the norm , that ’ s what we expect from our elected officials , is one of the biggest problems with our political system today .
And I think we ’ re at a point now where this is a cheesy old quote , but like a big and important thing is to stop asking what your community can do for you and start showing up for them .
So we ’ ve @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what we ’ re doing and I hope to be able to continue that as the campaign goes on .
Kim Brown : Bre , just to make sure I heard you clearly , did you say you were using your campaign funds to buy groceries for people ?
Bre Kidman : Yeah , no , that ’ s right .
The FEC said it was okay .
Kim Brown : That speaks for itself , and it speaks volumes .
We ’ re going to have to leave the conversation there .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ Bre Kidman , running for the democratic nomination for the US Senate seat in Maine .
They have broken barriers as the first non-binary person in US history to run for the Senate .
Bre , thank you so much for joining us .
It ’ s been a fantastic conversation and opportunity to talk with you .
Bre Kidman : Thanks for talking with me .
Kim Brown : And special thanks to our producer and editor , Taylor Hebden , for all of her help on this piece .
I ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ watching The Real News Network .

Congressional candidate Bre Kidman says profit-driven medicine depends on maintaining the unequal access to healthcare faced by trans, LGBTQ, and other marginalized groups.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Kim Brown: Welcome to The Real News. I’m Kim Brown. Marginalized communities are being hit hardest by the COVID-19 pandemic, including the disabled, black, and indigenous populations. But what about the gay community? Historically, facing societal scorn, neglect, and violence, the LGBTQIA community faces unique barriers in accessing care. So to get some more details about that and to understand exactly how this community is being impacted during the pandemic, we’re joined today on the line with Bre Kidman. Bre is the first non-binary person in US history to run for the Senate. They are an attorney, activist, and artist in Maine and are seeking the Democratic nomination to oppose Susan Collins this fall for the US Senate seat. And Bre joins us today from Southern Maine. Bre, thank you so much for being here.
Bre Kidman: Thanks for having me.
Kim Brown: So there’s a lot to get into this discussion. And I wanted to start first about accessibility when it comes to getting healthcare, when it comes to getting a diagnosis. Obviously the pandemic is putting more pressure on many marginalized communities, but how is the gay community feeling this uniquely?
Bre Kidman: So I’m going to borrow this from a headline from a piece that I talked to someone about a week or two ago and that’s that the Coronavirus isn’t transphobic, but our healthcare system is. So the 2015 US Trans Survey gave us some really devastating statistics about trans people in particular and their access to healthcare in that I think it was one in five, and I don’t have the statistics in front of me, I’m sorry, but I think it was one in five people who are trans who have been turned away from doctor’s office for care regardless of whether that care is related to transition purposes. The end result is that particularly trans people, and I think across the broader LGBTQ community, healthcare access has been a problem. So when we’re looking at access to care for this specific pandemic, you see states where they’ve expanded, all insurance carriers must cover testing. But if you don’t have insurance that doesn’t help you. In addition to just animus based provider discrimination or provider discrimination based on lack of knowledge. We see people who we get denied care because doctors don’t know how that’ll interact with hormones. And these are standards of care that have been out for a long time. Like W Path has been available. But there are a lot of medical professionals who just say, “No, I don’t treat people who are like that,” and kind of are skittish about it.
And that’s not to say that everyone is, but when we’re talking about discrimination, this is a population of people who already face a high barrier of care for even basic health care services. So we see concerns about just going to the doctor. I think it’s one in three trans people have avoided going to the doctor for regular care. So kind of a hesitancy about receiving medical care. But also reluctance on the part of the provider. And also a darker realm of thinking that I hesitate to even say out loud because it makes me anxious that I might bring it into existence by saying it, but the idea that guidelines about prioritization for things like ventilators notably doesn’t include discrimination on the basis of gender identity. So there aren’t protections in place for the trans community when we’re talking about decisions that are life and death in this crisis being made.
Kim Brown: And I want to apologize because I did not mean to conflate the gay community and the trans community. I know they’re under a big umbrella together, but the issues are very different and unique. So let me apologize for conflating the two. But I wanted to follow up because I know you say you didn’t have exact statistics, but I’m curious whether or not people have shared with you their anecdotal experiences, their individual experiences with the medical community, I guess pre-COVID and now post-COVID.
Bre Kidman: Yeah, anecdotally, most of the people I know have experienced some form of provider discrimination even over the last five years, some form of, “I have to find a new doctor because my doctor doesn’t know how to deal with transition.” But also post-COVID, I’ve heard from a number of non-binary people, even just in the state of Maine, where there’d be calls about wellness services coming around from the main CDC, and they’ll ask, “Do you identify… Or are you a man or are you a woman? Are you male or female? What’s your sex?” And I had a friend who said, “Well I’m non binary, so neither.” And they were like, “Yeah, but what’s your legal gender?” And my friend said, “Well Maine recognizes X gender. That’s what it says on my driver’s license. My gender is non binary.” And they said, “Okay, well thank you for your time,” and hung up, disconnected the call, just didn’t want any further data from them.
And I think we see that also on a broader scale in terms of statistical data collection about COVID-19. This is a couple of weeks old now and this data is changing so rapidly, but a couple of weeks ago there were zero non-binary cases of COVID-19, and I don’t think that’s because there are no non-binary people who have had it. I think that’s because there’s not data being collected on the basis of appropriate gender markers.
Kim Brown: So I want to talk to you about how your platform as you are running for Senate seeking to oppose Senator Susan Collins, who’s the longtime incumbent, she seems to have enemies like everywhere, no one seems to really like Susan Collins on either side of the aisle. So I can see how you would aim to replace her. But on a federal level, what can be done federally to ensure and guarantee the civil rights, the right to access for equal treatment by the medical community for gay, trans, and non-binary people?
Bre Kidman: Well, so a couple, and there’s a couple of different routes that I could take with this, but the one that is kind of closest to me personally is we need representation at our federal level. The proportionality of even gay and lesbian and bisexual legislators is well below a figure that represents the general population. And there has never been a trans person in either the House or the Senate. So there have been studies that have shown that having an LGBT person just in the room of a legislative body makes that legislative body more likely to pass legislation that is friendly towards LGBT people and less likely to pass discriminatory legislation against LGBT people.
And I think that’s because when legislators have to look someone in the eye before taking away their rights, it gets a little bit harder to do it. So I think one of the biggest ways to get more legislation that is helpful for LGBTQ people is to let us make the legislation. That said, I would be remiss if I didn’t say that Medicare For All would also go a long way for this. If we had universal healthcare, if we weren’t wrestling with insurance companies and all the different corporate sets of values that come with different insurance providers around how we receive and get care paid for, if it was kind of a blanket everyone gets care, then I think it gets easier to address different disparities of care because we’re at a baseline where everyone gets care and so now the standards of care are… We assume everyone is going to be taken care of, how do we make sure that all of these different groups who have had health disparities are cared for appropriately? I think standards like W Path and kind of that greater awareness.
Could it be implemented in the current healthcare system? Yes. Should it be implemented in the current healthcare system? Yes. And also if we’re not also wrangling with health insurance companies to figure out how the care is going to be paid for or what care each kind of person is worthy of receiving based on the tier of health insurance they get, it makes it a lot easier to make those decisions based on the wellbeing of the individual and not on the profit motive. Having a program like Medicare For All creates opportunities to kind of cautify anti-discrimination provisions that have kind of been under attack. Like with the Affordable Care Act, we’ve seen the Trump administration repeatedly try to walk back protections on the basis of gender identity and I think also sexual orientation. So we’ve seen those protections kind of get poked at and chipped away at even if not necessarily kind of followed through on that destruction. And I think when we have a baseline that is everyone receives care no matter who you are or how much money you have or what plan you have, everyone is we’re going to get the healthcare that they need.
Kim Brown: I hate to happen here because I wanted to ask you about Medicare For All, because as proposed by Senator Bernie Sanders, his Medicare For All proposal includes transitional surgeries for trans people and also access to mental health services for people who are going through that transition. And it seems as if opposition to Medicare For All, perhaps by the Democratic establishment at large, not necessarily the progressive wing that Bernie Sanders represents, it could be perceived as homophobic. Because their opposition to this is going to specifically harm not just the gay and trans communities, but black community as well, a group of people who have historically been denied equal access to healthcare treatment and testing, etc. Is it homophobic that Medicare For All is not being adopted by the Dem establishment?
Bre Kidman: Yeah, in a broader sense, homophobic and transphobic, I think the way that I would frame that is by saying groups that are marginalized and things like employment and things like access to housing and things like access to wealth, essentially any group that has a disparity with regard to access to wealth is being further marginalized by a lack of access to healthcare. And so when we look at legislators who oppose Medicare For All, we’re looking at people who don’t actually want to close those disparities. Those healthcare disparities are going to exist for as long as healthcare is tied to profit and access to wealth.
Kim Brown: You’re talking about institutional systemic issues and barriers that have been placed against entire communities really since the inception of this country. It’s only now that we are finally starting to flicker awake a little bit with how we view the value of bringing everyone and making sure that every person in this country, undocumented, regardless of the race, sexual orientation, etc., that people have access to basically what we paid for in America.
Bre Kidman: And I think it’s tough to talk about these things without looking at how they’re interconnected. You see the LGBTQ people have higher rates of homelessness than the general population. You see that mass incarceration impacts access to future earnings. All of these different things relate to one another. And so in a society that bases your access to healthcare on your access to wealth, any of these different factors that impact access to wealth are necessarily going to impact access to healthcare. And particularly now where we’re waiting for the Supreme Court to come back on whether you can discriminate against someone for being LGBTQ in the workplace, that disparity stands to actually get even more stark without a universal healthcare solution.
Kim Brown: You know, I wanted to ask you about mutual aid in the time of a pandemic, how many marginalized communities are reaching out, engaging with one another, helping one another access food, medicine, a variety of essential needs that people rely on in order to survive. And the gay and trans community is obviously no exception to that. But honestly, between gay and trans communities, they have really set the bar for reaching out and helping one another, because oftentimes people in positions of governmental authority, were not accessible to them or not responsive to the needs of those communities. And there were and are laws still on the books that actively discriminate. So talk to us about the role that mutual aid and grassroots organizations are playing at this pivotal moment right now.
Bre Kidman: Yeah. So if there is kind of a silver lining to the cloud of existing disparities that disadvantage LGBTQ people in this pandemic, I think that silver lining is that we’ve always had to care for our own. We have a long and storied tradition of grassroots organizing, of coming together to care for our community, of building those networks to be supportive networks. To some extent some of that infrastructure is already built for us. And so we see that with those connections that exist. You have community centers, you have community health centers, you have support groups. And kind of in a lot of cities, at least in the Portland area where I live, there are already kind of those online communities and also kind of networks of people who are used to gathering to support one another as society fails to meet our needs.
And so that continues on through this. I think those networks are a little strained, more strained than they would normally be because everyone is under a lot of strain right now. But I think the fact that those things have always existed is kind of a resiliency that we have to leverage during this time. Because connecting with your neighbors and making sure that your friends, your neighbors, your community have what they need is something that we have always had to do.
Kim Brown: So let’s talk about the politics of the race right now. You are in a race for the US Senate. It should be an interesting fight there in Maine. You have a number of different opponents. And on your Facebook page you took a shot at one of your opponents, Sarah Gideon, in a post that she made about COVID-19. It included a link for donations to her campaign. If you could share with us what your campaign and what you have been doing to outreach to people and to help people during this very just unusual and critical time period that we find ourselves in.
Bre Kidman: Yeah. So from the start of this race, really even one of the reasons that I am running or that I’m doing this is the idea that it is normal and expected to spend millions of dollars on advertising and millions of dollars on acquiring donor lists to get more money. And the idea that how much money you have and how much money you spend on objects that will ultimately be worthless at the end of the campaign, that that is how we judge viability and that’s how we judge the strength of a candidate, that makes me sick. I can’t stand it. And I wanted to change it. I wanted to be the kind of candidate that I had hoped to see. So I said, “Okay, how do we do that?”
And so from very early in this campaign, our plan was always to use kind of the seed money that we had gathered, which was less than $10,000 which is not a lot, but it’s not nothing, so to use that money to have fundraisers for local charities all over Maine in hopes that just doing good things in the community and having people talk about those good things, that doing good speaks for itself and is more powerful than another TV ad that says nothing. And so as this crisis kind of unfolded in Maine, I realized pretty quickly that I couldn’t have a whole bunch of in-person fundraisers, and also I realized pretty quickly that there was going to be a need for direct support.
And so what I did was I signed up to be involved with a couple of mutual aid projects in my community. And in doing so, basically what we’ve done instead of holding these fundraisers is use our campaign funds to directly provide for people who are struggling. So I’ve done a bunch of grocery runs for people who can’t go to the grocery store because they’re immunocompromised or otherwise struggle with transportation and can’t buy groceries. So I’ve just gone and picked up groceries for them. I’ve sent grocery cards to people who are having difficulty because they’re out of work. And essentially we’re just using the funds that we have to provide for people. And the thing is, yeah, I can go a pretty long way with, I think it was around $6,000. But can you imagine if these campaigns who had millions of dollars put even $100,000 into this, how much further it would go?
They’re making these videos saying, “We’re solving this crisis, we’re in this together.” But they’re still asking you to give you their money. They’re not giving anything back to you. And I think that’s disingenuous. And frankly, I think it’s gross. Why would you trust someone who comes to you with their hand out when such a huge percentage of our population is unemployed and struggling right now? I think that the fact that that’s, the norm, that’s what we expect from our elected officials , is one of the biggest problems with our political system today. And I think we’re at a point now where this is a cheesy old quote, but like a big and important thing is to stop asking what your community can do for you and start showing up for them. So we’ve tried really hard to model that with what we’re doing and I hope to be able to continue that as the campaign goes on.
Kim Brown: Bre, just to make sure I heard you clearly, did you say you were using your campaign funds to buy groceries for people?
Bre Kidman: Yeah, no, that’s right. The FEC said it was okay.
Kim Brown: That speaks for itself, and it speaks volumes. We’re going to have to leave the conversation there. Attorney, activist, and artist, Bre Kidman, running for the democratic nomination for the US Senate seat in Maine. They have broken barriers as the first non-binary person in US history to run for the Senate. Bre, thank you so much for joining us. It’s been a fantastic conversation and opportunity to talk with you.
Bre Kidman: Thanks for talking with me.
Kim Brown: And special thanks to our producer and editor, Taylor Hebden, for all of her help on this piece. I’m Kim Brown. Thank you for watching The Real News Network.
Production: Genevieve Montinar, Taylor Hebden
Studio: Taylor Hebden
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