therealnews--2020-05-06--Yemen’s Civil War Now Has Three Sides

Yemen’s Civil War Now Has Three Sides

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Kim Brown : Welcome to The Real News , I ’ m Kim Brown .
As the holy month of Ramadan comes to Yemen , the likelihood of peace seems further away now than it did before .
The civil war which has been raging there between two sides , has seemingly transformed now into a three-sided war .
This is because the Saudi coalition is splitting apart .
While the Yemeni government in Sana ’ a remains loyal to Saudi Arabia , the southern @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the UAE , has now announced its decision to secede from Yemen and turn the port city of Aden into its capital .
Abu Hammam Al-Ba ` wah is the head of the Southern resistance forces and explained why the separation took place .
Abu Hammam Al-B… : We support the taking over of government institutions so that they won ’ t abuse the south financially or administratively .
Kim Brown : People living in Aden seem to support the separation , or at the very least , this is what they dare @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s hear from [ Sola Abid 00:01:10 ] , who was a resident of Aden .
Sola Abid : There is complete support from all the Southern sects , the residents , military commanders , tribal leaders , and other important people .
They all support this decision , despite it coming a little late .
Kim Brown : Yemen has been ravaged by a civil war that claimed the lives of more than 100,000 people since 2015 , and which the UN calls the world ’ s worst humanitarian catastrophe .
A @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , but it didn ’ t last .
And meanwhile , the first cases of COVID-19 were diagnosed in Yemen .
Joining us today to discuss this is Shireen Al-Adeimi .
She is an assistant professor of education at Michigan State University .
Shireen was born in Yemen and she has lived in the US for over the past 10 years .
She joins us today from Lansing , Michigan .
Shireen , thank you so much for joining us .
Shireen Al-Adei… : Thanks for having me .
Kim Brown : So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ complained that the Southern separatists counsel ’ s declaration came at a bad time , and he alleges that it sabotages the US efforts to achieve a ceasefire .
So in your opinion , is the US really trying to achieve a ceasefire in Yemen ?
Shireen Al-Adei… : I don ’ t even know where to begin with Pompeo ’ s statement .
The US is very much part of the Saudi-led coalition .
So ostensibly , this is the civil war between various forces in Yemen .
But since the Saudi @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I don ’ t think it ’ s fair to characterize it as a civil war any longer , given how much intervention , foreign intervention , there has been .
And part of that foreign intervention is the United States , a big part of it .
So the US has been supporting the Saudi allies militarily and logistically and in various other ways .
And so for them to claim that this is impeding any efforts , peace efforts or anything like that , it ’ s hypocritical , to be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the war , so them calling out other parties of the war makes no sense to me at all .
Kim Brown : So this is the second time during the war in which tensions rose between Saudi Arabia and the UAE , and clearly a proxy war is being waged in Yemen .
Can you give us some background , I guess ?
And I know it ’ s a very complex , complicated issue , but as best as you can , can you help boil down the diverging interests that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ origins in both Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates ?
Shireen Al-Adei… : Sure .
So I guess going back to 2011 during the Arab Spring , the fallout of the Arab Spring when Yemenis were among the nations who revolted against their then-president and dictator , Saleh , was that he resigned eventually and transferred power to his vice president , whose name is Hadi .
Hadi is currently be UN-recognized president of Yemen .
Hadi unfortunately wasn ’ t able to accomplish any of the goals set out by the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Houthi rebels in Northern Yemen , who had long clashed with the government of Yemen staged a coup and that forced him in 2015 out of the capital Sana ’ a [ inaudible 00:04:29 ] .
And since then he ’ s been mostly based in Saudi Arabia .
So the Saudi-led coalition and the Yemeni government does not have control over the Sana ’ a , the capital , or over most of the Northern Yemen , where about 70 % of the population lives .
So since then , the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the UAE and various other countries in the region as well as the US and the UK , have waged this attack , essentially this bombing campaign and a blockade , ostensibly to restore Hadi to power .
They ’ re very concerned apparently with the stability of Yemen and with making sure that whoever ’ s in power in Yemen is somebody who ’ s loyal to Saudi Arabia , as Hadi has been .
And that led to clashes with the Houthis and other groups in Yemen .
And since @ @ @ @ @ @ @ years .
The Saudi-led coalition controls most of former South Yemen and the Houthis control most of the former North Yemen .
And the situation of course is ongoing .
The bombardment is ongoing .
The blockade is ongoing .
The UAE is part of that coalition , but it began supporting a separatist movement in the South .
And this is what we see playing out right now .
So South Yemen , there ’ s a group actually within South Yemen who wants to go back to historical separation , which @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ve declared [ inaudible 00:05:56 ] or autonomous rule , within the South and the UAE , which is part of this Saudi-led coalition is in fact financially supporting them , has been supporting them since 2017 .
Kim Brown : So what has all of this meant for the people of Yemen ?
As you mentioned that the country was under a blockade , we have seen pictures of Yemeni starving , people going without basic supplies .
And especially as we are dealing with a global pandemic in COVID-19 , what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ living in Yemen , living under this civil war and now dealing with the additional pressures of a virus ?
Shireen Al-Adei… : Right .
So the bombing campaign has essentially rendered the healthcare system dysfunctional .
So about 50 % of hospitals have been bombed and the other 50 % are barely hanging on .
Because of the blockade that ’ s imposed by the US , Saudi Arabia and the UAE , medicine and food isn ’ t able to enter the country without restrictions .
And so a country that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ food is now relying on barely 20 % of aid coming into the country .
Speaking of the aid , currently , the agencies like USAID and the World Food Program have massively cut their aid toward Yemen , which means that they ’ ve exasperated this starvation that Yemenis have been going through .
The numbers , we don ’ t even know how this is effecting Yemeni ’ s number-wise , but we have one report from back in 2018 that estimated that 85,000 children have already starved to death .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ minutes , dying of malnutrition or starvation or diseases , then the numbers that we ’ re going to have in the end are really brutal and horrific .
So they far outweigh the hundred thousand people who ’ ve already been killed in the violence .
And now with the advent of COVID-19 , there have been six confirmed cases in Yemen , and as of today two confirm deaths in South Yemen .
All of these cases have been in South Yemen .
But the fear is that they ’ re @ @ @ @ @ @ @ or treat any of these people , because they ’ re already dealing with so much disease .
For example , cholera , the biggest outbreak in the world , dengue fever , swine flu and other epidemics .
And so this on top of everything and on top of the functioning healthcare system , it ’ s really pushed Yemen to the brink .
And it could already be … There are reports saying that this could already be spreading undetected in Yemen .
Again , there ’ s not an efficient @ @ @ @ @ @ @ even test .
And as of today , the WHO is … The UN is warning that the WHO might suspend of the services in Yemen due to lack of funding .
And so without the WHO ’ s help , there ’ s really no way to track or to treat coronavirus in Yemen .
Kim Brown : So I wanted to circle back to the announcement of the succession and the Southern separatists ’ decision to create , I guess , a separate state from the rest of the country .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the nation … Is this their choice or is this something that they are being made to go along with ?
And what is the likelihood that the Southern separatists seceding from the rest of the nation … Will that have an impact on the civil war in a way that could hopefully bring it to an end ?
Shireen Al-Adei… : If this were still a civil war , I think it would bring it to an end because essentially the Saudi-led coalition controls , or you could say the Hadi @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and the Houthis North Yemen .
But again , because this isn ’ t truly a civil war anymore , the impact is going to be different .
And so the Southern Transitional Council has roots from back in 2007 when the [ inaudible 00:10:07 ] movement was formed , the separatist movement .
And it wasn ’ t really formed in 2007 out of nowhere .
These are grievances that people in the South have had since 1994 .
North and South Yemen united in 1990 , and within four years the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a war between North and South Yemen .
Many in the South feel like we ’ ve been forced back into unity with the North .
And so tensions have been there , have been simmering , and have been festering for a long time .
And fast forward to 2017 , when initially the separatists were working with the Hadi-led government in the South against Houthis , but in 2017 there were clashes among these two groups and they officially formed the Southern Transition Council , whose goal is to secede .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s supporting them financially speaks to this old-age divide and conquer kind of issue among colonizers .
And so the UAE is part of the Saudi-led coalition who is saying that they want to reinstate the UN-recognized government to power , yet the UAE is also supporting a separatist group .
And so they want to secede .
They ’ ve agreed to an to a peace deal back in August 2019 .
Now they ’ re declaring autonomous rules .
What that means is unclear .
They do have a lot @ @ @ @ @ @ @ but not necessarily in the rest of the Southern provinces .
The rest of the Southern provinces either support Hadi or are anti-coalition .
And so it ’ s really hard to kind of characterize it in one way .
There ’ s not one group , two groups .
There are several groups , just like any other country .
You can ’ t bring ten Americans together and have them agree on anything politics-wise .
It ’ s the same way in Yemen .
But with all of this foreign intervention @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for Yemenis to come to the table among themselves and decide what ’ s best for them , when you have the UAE and Saudi Arabia and the US essentially controlling what ’ s going on , funding various groups directly involved in the war in Yemen .
It ’ s very difficult for locals to get together and decide what ’ s best for them .
Kim Brown : We ’ ve been speaking today with Shireen Al-Adeimi .
She is an assistant professor of education at Michigan State University .
She @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And we ’ ve been talking about the ongoing tribulations and difficulties , challenges , a myriad of those facing people living in Yemen in the announcement of the secession of the Southern separatists .
This is in addition to the ongoing proxy war masking as a civil war in that nation .
Thank you so much for joining us , Shireen .
Shireen Al-Adei… : Thanks for having me .
Kim Brown : And thank you all for watching The Real News Network .

The Southern Transitional Council wants the city of Aden to secede, the Saudi coalition is breaking up, and the Houthis say they weren’t informed of the US-brokered ceasefire.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Kim Brown: Welcome to The Real News, I’m Kim Brown. As the holy month of Ramadan comes to Yemen, the likelihood of peace seems further away now than it did before. The civil war which has been raging there between two sides, has seemingly transformed now into a three-sided war. This is because the Saudi coalition is splitting apart. While the Yemeni government in Sana’a remains loyal to Saudi Arabia, the southern separatist council, which is supported by the UAE, has now announced its decision to secede from Yemen and turn the port city of Aden into its capital. Abu Hammam Al-Ba`wah is the head of the Southern resistance forces and explained why the separation took place.
Abu Hammam Al-B…: We support the taking over of government institutions so that they won’t abuse the south financially or administratively.
Kim Brown: People living in Aden seem to support the separation, or at the very least, this is what they dare to say right now. Let’s hear from [Sola Abid 00:01:10], who was a resident of Aden.
Sola Abid: There is complete support from all the Southern sects, the residents, military commanders, tribal leaders, and other important people. They all support this decision, despite it coming a little late.
Kim Brown: Yemen has been ravaged by a civil war that claimed the lives of more than 100,000 people since 2015, and which the UN calls the world’s worst humanitarian catastrophe. A unilateral ceasefire was announced in early April, but it didn’t last. And meanwhile, the first cases of COVID-19 were diagnosed in Yemen. Joining us today to discuss this is Shireen Al-Adeimi. She is an assistant professor of education at Michigan State University. Shireen was born in Yemen and she has lived in the US for over the past 10 years. She joins us today from Lansing, Michigan. Shireen, thank you so much for joining us.
Shireen Al-Adei…: Thanks for having me.
Kim Brown: So U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, complained that the Southern separatists counsel’s declaration came at a bad time, and he alleges that it sabotages the US efforts to achieve a ceasefire. So in your opinion, is the US really trying to achieve a ceasefire in Yemen?
Shireen Al-Adei…: I don’t even know where to begin with Pompeo’s statement. The US is very much part of the Saudi-led coalition. So ostensibly, this is the civil war between various forces in Yemen. But since the Saudi Arabian coalition began intervening in 2015, I don’t think it’s fair to characterize it as a civil war any longer, given how much intervention, foreign intervention, there has been. And part of that foreign intervention is the United States, a big part of it. So the US has been supporting the Saudi allies militarily and logistically and in various other ways. And so for them to claim that this is impeding any efforts, peace efforts or anything like that, it’s hypocritical, to be honest. They are a party in the war, so them calling out other parties of the war makes no sense to me at all.
Kim Brown: So this is the second time during the war in which tensions rose between Saudi Arabia and the UAE, and clearly a proxy war is being waged in Yemen. Can you give us some background, I guess? And I know it’s a very complex, complicated issue, but as best as you can, can you help boil down the diverging interests that are occurring in Yemen but have its origins in both Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates?
Shireen Al-Adei…: Sure. So I guess going back to 2011 during the Arab Spring, the fallout of the Arab Spring when Yemenis were among the nations who revolted against their then-president and dictator, Saleh, was that he resigned eventually and transferred power to his vice president, whose name is Hadi. Hadi is currently be UN-recognized president of Yemen. Hadi unfortunately wasn’t able to accomplish any of the goals set out by the agreement. And within three years, the Houthi rebels in Northern Yemen, who had long clashed with the government of Yemen staged a coup and that forced him in 2015 out of the capital Sana’a [inaudible 00:04:29]. And since then he’s been mostly based in Saudi Arabia. So the Saudi-led coalition and the Yemeni government does not have control over the Sana’a, the capital, or over most of the Northern Yemen, where about 70% of the population lives.
So since then, the Saudi-led intervention, which is again comprised of the UAE and various other countries in the region as well as the US and the UK, have waged this attack, essentially this bombing campaign and a blockade, ostensibly to restore Hadi to power. They’re very concerned apparently with the stability of Yemen and with making sure that whoever’s in power in Yemen is somebody who’s loyal to Saudi Arabia, as Hadi has been. And that led to clashes with the Houthis and other groups in Yemen.
And since then, it’s been five years. The Saudi-led coalition controls most of former South Yemen and the Houthis control most of the former North Yemen. And the situation of course is ongoing. The bombardment is ongoing. The blockade is ongoing. The UAE is part of that coalition, but it began supporting a separatist movement in the South. And this is what we see playing out right now. So South Yemen, there’s a group actually within South Yemen who wants to go back to historical separation, which happened under colonialism, and they’ve declared [inaudible 00:05:56] or autonomous rule, within the South and the UAE, which is part of this Saudi-led coalition is in fact financially supporting them, has been supporting them since 2017.
Kim Brown: So what has all of this meant for the people of Yemen? As you mentioned that the country was under a blockade, we have seen pictures of Yemeni starving, people going without basic supplies. And especially as we are dealing with a global pandemic in COVID-19, what is the status of people who are living in Yemen, living under this civil war and now dealing with the additional pressures of a virus?
Shireen Al-Adei…: Right. So the bombing campaign has essentially rendered the healthcare system dysfunctional. So about 50% of hospitals have been bombed and the other 50% are barely hanging on. Because of the blockade that’s imposed by the US, Saudi Arabia and the UAE, medicine and food isn’t able to enter the country without restrictions. And so a country that relied on importing 90% of its food is now relying on barely 20% of aid coming into the country. Speaking of the aid, currently, the agencies like USAID and the World Food Program have massively cut their aid toward Yemen, which means that they’ve exasperated this starvation that Yemenis have been going through. The numbers, we don’t even know how this is effecting Yemeni’s number-wise, but we have one report from back in 2018 that estimated that 85,000 children have already starved to death. If a child was starving every 10 minutes, dying of malnutrition or starvation or diseases, then the numbers that we’re going to have in the end are really brutal and horrific. So they far outweigh the hundred thousand people who’ve already been killed in the violence.
And now with the advent of COVID-19, there have been six confirmed cases in Yemen, and as of today two confirm deaths in South Yemen. All of these cases have been in South Yemen. But the fear is that they’re really not able to test or track or treat any of these people, because they’re already dealing with so much disease. For example, cholera, the biggest outbreak in the world, dengue fever, swine flu and other epidemics. And so this on top of everything and on top of the functioning healthcare system, it’s really pushed Yemen to the brink. And it could already be … There are reports saying that this could already be spreading undetected in Yemen. Again, there’s not an efficient way to manage the spread or to even test. And as of today, the WHO is … The UN is warning that the WHO might suspend of the services in Yemen due to lack of funding. And so without the WHO’s help, there’s really no way to track or to treat coronavirus in Yemen.
Kim Brown: So I wanted to circle back to the announcement of the succession and the Southern separatists’ decision to create, I guess, a separate state from the rest of the country. Do the residents in the Southern part of the nation … Is this their choice or is this something that they are being made to go along with? And what is the likelihood that the Southern separatists seceding from the rest of the nation … Will that have an impact on the civil war in a way that could hopefully bring it to an end?
Shireen Al-Adei…: If this were still a civil war, I think it would bring it to an end because essentially the Saudi-led coalition controls, or you could say the Hadi government controls the south part of Yemen and the Houthis North Yemen. But again, because this isn’t truly a civil war anymore, the impact is going to be different. And so the Southern Transitional Council has roots from back in 2007 when the [inaudible 00:10:07] movement was formed, the separatist movement. And it wasn’t really formed in 2007 out of nowhere. These are grievances that people in the South have had since 1994. North and South Yemen united in 1990, and within four years the unity was dissolved and it led to a war between North and South Yemen. Many in the South feel like we’ve been forced back into unity with the North.
And so tensions have been there, have been simmering, and have been festering for a long time. And fast forward to 2017, when initially the separatists were working with the Hadi-led government in the South against Houthis, but in 2017 there were clashes among these two groups and they officially formed the Southern Transition Council, whose goal is to secede. Now, the fact that the UAE’s supporting them financially speaks to this old-age divide and conquer kind of issue among colonizers. And so the UAE is part of the Saudi-led coalition who is saying that they want to reinstate the UN-recognized government to power, yet the UAE is also supporting a separatist group.
And so they want to secede. They’ve agreed to an to a peace deal back in August 2019. Now they’re declaring autonomous rules. What that means is unclear. They do have a lot of support in Aden, specifically, but not necessarily in the rest of the Southern provinces. The rest of the Southern provinces either support Hadi or are anti-coalition. And so it’s really hard to kind of characterize it in one way. There’s not one group, two groups. There are several groups, just like any other country. You can’t bring ten Americans together and have them agree on anything politics-wise. It’s the same way in Yemen. But with all of this foreign intervention going on, it’s harder for Yemenis to come to the table among themselves and decide what’s best for them, when you have the UAE and Saudi Arabia and the US essentially controlling what’s going on, funding various groups directly involved in the war in Yemen. It’s very difficult for locals to get together and decide what’s best for them.
Kim Brown: We’ve been speaking today with Shireen Al-Adeimi. She is an assistant professor of education at Michigan State University. She’s also a Yemeni native. And we’ve been talking about the ongoing tribulations and difficulties, challenges, a myriad of those facing people living in Yemen in the announcement of the secession of the Southern separatists. This is in addition to the ongoing proxy war masking as a civil war in that nation. Thank you so much for joining us, Shireen.
Shireen Al-Adei…: Thanks for having me.
Kim Brown: And thank you all for watching The Real News Network.
Production: Genevieve Montinar, Bababtunde Ogunfolaju, Andrew Corkery
Studio: Bababtunde Ogunfolaju
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therealnews--2020-05-06--Amazon VP Quits In Support Of Fired Whistleblowers

Shortly after recording , Amazon confirmed that a worker at the same facility Smalls was fired from had died from COVID-19 .
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Speaker 1 : A senior vice president at Amazon has quit over the firing of workers .
“ I quit in dismay at Amazon firing whistleblowers who were making noise about employees frightened of COVID-19 , ” Tim Bray , a senior software engineer at Amazon , wrote in a blog post .
Bray quit on May Day , a day of action @ @ @ @ @ @ @ its handling of the pandemic .
There are reported cases of COVID-19 in more than half of Amazon ’ s warehouses .
Speaker 2 : We are protesting here at Jeff Bezos ’ s home because since the epidemic started , he has made $ 30 billion at a time where we ’ re seeing people losing their jobs .
Speaker 1 : “ Firing whistleblowers is evidence of a vein of toxicity running through the company culture .
I choose neither to serve nor drink that poison , ” Bray wrote .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ whistleblowers , Chris Smalls , to get his reaction .
Chris Smalls : And I was like , wow , this is amazing .
And then I realized the nature , the stature of this guy ’ s position in the company being the VP , all the way at the top , making 2 million plus as a salary .
I took that as a win for us , especially for what we orchestrated on Friday , May 1st , May Day , something unprecedented for the first time ever forming an @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and companies , and industries .
We took it as a small victory , but actually a major victory because , that validates the story that I ’ ve been telling along , what he did .
It takes a lot of courage for him to do what he did , but I ’ m grateful for it .
Hats off to him .
Speaker 4 : That is one of the most powerful companies in the world , its owner Jeff Bezos .
He ’ s the richest man in the history @ @ @ @ @ @ @ bit more about what this means , because this means that this isn ’ t just insulated to frontline workers .
Senior VPs are seeing what workers like you are doing and they are so concerned that they say they can no longer be associated with this company .
Chris Smalls : Yeah .
It speaks volume when you speak truth to power , and you ’ re speaking the truth , which I was doing from day one , the power has a decision to make .
They can continue lying to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ well , continue lying in the media , something that Amazon does well , or they can respond to their workers that are asking for the simple demands .
Some people go one way , other people go another .
Tim , what he did , was he chose to stand with the workers , with the front liners , even the techs that were terminated as well , and he did the right thing , as I did 30 days ago , 30 something days ago .
And in March when I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , that affects everybody .
That affects the communities that we live in , and in effects the families that we have at home , and I think he understood that .
He understood that the company dropped the ball , they didn ’ t respond the right way .
Wrongfully terminating associates during the middle of a pandemic , that ’ s just horrible to do .
They didn ’ t care about our livelihood .
They didn ’ t care about our families , how we going to feed our families @ @ @ @ @ @ @ my health insurance .
Didn ’ t care about my health .
I think he does .
That ’ s just a message for everybody else , other companies , other major corporations , other CEOs , other one-percenters that make millions of dollars and billions of dollars .
Enough is enough .
We ’ re speaking up because we care about our wellbeing , our employees ’ wellbeing , and we ’ re going to continue to do so .
So , the decision is yours , whichever way you want to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be prepared for that .
Speaker 4 : And Chris , the significance of him doing this on May Day , obviously it was a day of action .
A lot of people were on the streets or in cars targeting , for example , the home of Jeff Bezos in New York City , the richest man in the world who ’ s fortune has increased by something like $ 20 billion just over the course of this last couple months , Chris Smalls : Right .
No , it ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of blood money during this pandemic .
That furthermore validates the fact that capitalism runs this country .
This company hires and fire .
Like I said before , to hire and fire during the middle of a pandemic is just unheard of .
We only met the demands of Jeff Bezos ’ s pockets .
We didn ’ t meet the demands of the employees or the consumers .
The consumers are not asking for essential workers to potentially bring home , bring to their doorstep a package that could possibly have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ employees didn ’ t ask to work unprotected for an entire month of March .
The company wants to sugarcoat everything now , but it ’ s been too late .
They started everything after they terminated me .
My building , JFK , Staten Island was the pilot for all the things they ’ re doing now .
So , for them to keep saying that they ’ re doing all of this and doing all of that and they ’ re spending all this money , good for them .
But @ @ @ @ @ @ @ late .
They should ’ ve done it already .
They should ’ ve done it two months ago .
They still need to pay all the employees that are unpaid right now .
There ’ s been an employees that ’ s been unpaid for two months .
So , they got a ways to go still .
And like I said what Tim did yesterday , is going to resonate throughout the world , throughout the country that power , we are the power .
The people are the power .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ May 1st and that was a prime example of it .
Speaker 4 : All right .
Chris Smalls , all your work and for joining us again .
Chris Smalls : Thank you anytime .
Appreciate it .
Speaker 4 : For joining us at The Real News Network .

Senior Amazon engineer Tim Bray said the firings were evidence of “a vein of toxicity running through the company culture.” We get a response from Chris Smalls, one of those fired workers.
Story Transcript
Shortly after recording, Amazon confirmed that a worker at the same facility Smalls was fired from had died from COVID-19.
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Speaker 1: A senior vice president at Amazon has quit over the firing of workers. “I quit in dismay at Amazon firing whistleblowers who were making noise about employees frightened of COVID-19,” Tim Bray, a senior software engineer at Amazon, wrote in a blog post. Bray quit on May Day, a day of action, whose demands included boycotting Amazon over its handling of the pandemic. There are reported cases of COVID-19 in more than half of Amazon’s warehouses.
Speaker 2: We are protesting here at Jeff Bezos’s home because since the epidemic started, he has made $30 billion at a time where we’re seeing people losing their jobs.
Speaker 1: “Firing whistleblowers is evidence of a vein of toxicity running through the company culture. I choose neither to serve nor drink that poison,” Bray wrote. We spoke to one of those fired whistleblowers, Chris Smalls, to get his reaction.
Chris Smalls: And I was like, wow, this is amazing. And then I realized the nature, the stature of this guy’s position in the company being the VP, all the way at the top, making 2 million plus as a salary. I took that as a win for us, especially for what we orchestrated on Friday, May 1st, May Day, something unprecedented for the first time ever forming an alliance with all these other competitors, and companies, and industries. We took it as a small victory, but actually a major victory because, that validates the story that I’ve been telling along, what he did. It takes a lot of courage for him to do what he did, but I’m grateful for it. Hats off to him.
Speaker 4: That is one of the most powerful companies in the world, its owner Jeff Bezos. He’s the richest man in the history of the world. Talk a little bit more about what this means, because this means that this isn’t just insulated to frontline workers. Senior VPs are seeing what workers like you are doing and they are so concerned that they say they can no longer be associated with this company.
Chris Smalls: Yeah. It speaks volume when you speak truth to power, and you’re speaking the truth, which I was doing from day one, the power has a decision to make. They can continue lying to the public, something that Amazon does well, continue lying in the media, something that Amazon does well, or they can respond to their workers that are asking for the simple demands. Some people go one way, other people go another. Tim, what he did, was he chose to stand with the workers, with the front liners, even the techs that were terminated as well, and he did the right thing, as I did 30 days ago, 30 something days ago. And in March when I was raising concerns about health and safety, that affects everybody. That affects the communities that we live in, and in effects the families that we have at home, and I think he understood that.
He understood that the company dropped the ball, they didn’t respond the right way. Wrongfully terminating associates during the middle of a pandemic, that’s just horrible to do. They didn’t care about our livelihood. They didn’t care about our families, how we going to feed our families. They didn’t care about my health insurance. Didn’t care about my health. I think he does. That’s just a message for everybody else, other companies, other major corporations, other CEOs, other one-percenters that make millions of dollars and billions of dollars. Enough is enough. We’re speaking up because we care about our wellbeing, our employees’ wellbeing, and we’re going to continue to do so. So, the decision is yours, whichever way you want to go, we’re going to be prepared for that.
Speaker 4: And Chris, the significance of him doing this on May Day, obviously it was a day of action. A lot of people were on the streets or in cars targeting, for example, the home of Jeff Bezos in New York City, the richest man in the world who’s fortune has increased by something like $20 billion just over the course of this last couple months,
Chris Smalls: Right. No, it’s blood money. He made a lot of blood money during this pandemic. That furthermore validates the fact that capitalism runs this country. This company hires and fire. Like I said before, to hire and fire during the middle of a pandemic is just unheard of. We only met the demands of Jeff Bezos’s pockets. We didn’t meet the demands of the employees or the consumers. The consumers are not asking for essential workers to potentially bring home, bring to their doorstep a package that could possibly have the virus on the package. The employees didn’t ask to work unprotected for an entire month of March.
The company wants to sugarcoat everything now, but it’s been too late. They started everything after they terminated me. My building, JFK, Staten Island was the pilot for all the things they’re doing now. So, for them to keep saying that they’re doing all of this and doing all of that and they’re spending all this money, good for them. But it’s a little bit too late. They should’ve done it already. They should’ve done it two months ago. They still need to pay all the employees that are unpaid right now. There’s been an employees that’s been unpaid for two months. So, they got a ways to go still. And like I said what Tim did yesterday, is going to resonate throughout the world, throughout the country that power, we are the power. The people are the power. And we took the power back on May 1st and that was a prime example of it.
Speaker 4: All right. Chris Smalls, all your work and for joining us again.
Chris Smalls: Thank you anytime. Appreciate it.
Speaker 4: For joining us at The Real News Network.
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therealnews--2020-05-07--UK Supreme Court Reverses BDS Ban

UK Supreme Court Reverses BDS Ban

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Kim Brown : Welcome to The Real News .
I ’ m Kim Brown .
A major decision by the UK Supreme Court protects the rights of organizations , including government organizations , to boycott , divest and sanction the State of Israel , even companies that support the exploitation of Palestine .
In 2016 , the British government issued severe guidelines banning government organizations and even local governments from participating in the BDS movement in any way .
Now this has impacted the Local @ @ @ @ @ @ @ which were obligated to invest the pension money of public service workers in companies that violate international law .
Now , that decision was met in Britain with some resistance .
Channel four of the BBC spoke with Rafeef Ziadah from the Palestine Society at SOAS University .
Rafeef Ziadah : I think it ’ s disgraceful that the British government has decided to intervene in this way , attacking local democracy and stopping councils from making ethical decisions around investments .
I think the public has every right to be able to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to our elected officials and to have an impact on corporations that we disagree with , involved in arms trade , against sweatshop labor and for Palestinian rights as well .
Kim Brown : In response to the government decision at the time , world famous journalist Glenn Greenwald said that the attempt to ban BDS is the worst attack on freedom of speech in the West in contemporary times .
So joining us to discuss this today is Ben Jamal .
Ben is the director of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign , which @ @ @ @ @ @ @ dedicated to securing Palestinian human rights .
He joins us today from London .
Ben , thank you so much for being here .
Ben Jamal : Nice to be here Kim .
Kim Brown : So , Ben , let ’ s go back to 2016 for a moment because I wanted to get your opinion about the British government ’ s decision to ban a boycott .
We ’ ll get into , did they have the right to do so , in just a moment .
But I wanted to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ took this extraordinary step to put this down on paper .
Ben Jamal : Yeah .
Well , I think , and we said this at the time , we had to really understand the government ’ s move as part of the global campaign that ’ s been going on for many years and which is right with the support of friendly allies amongst Western government , has sought to use what ’ s defined as law [ inaudible 00:02:31 ] seeking to introduce laws that effectively criminalize BDS .
So we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ United States , I think more than 20 States have such laws .
We ’ ve seen them introduced in France , we ’ ve seen them introduced in Germany , is part of the wider campaign to de-legitimize the Palestine Solidarity Movement and de-legitimized activism for Palestine .
And these regulations that the government introduced in the UK in 2016 with the first serious attempt we ’ d seen in the UK to do something similar and to attempt to prohibit action that was effectively… People making decisions not to invest money @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s violations of international law to attempt to prohibit that sort of activity .
Kim Brown : So talk to us a little bit about the appeal .
What exactly did PCS argue in front of the UK Supreme court and how did the government defend its decision to impose a ban on BDS , on local governments ?
Ben Jamal : Well , our argument was framed around… First of all , the obligation as we saw it of public bodies not to be complicit in having their money invested , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ holders invested in companies that we ’ re complicit in international law violations complicit in the violation of human rights , it was about the rights of pension holders on how their money was going to be spent .
That if they said , “ I don ’ t want my pension invested in a company that ’ s helping build illegal settlements ” , they should have that right .
The grounds on which we had to fight the case were narrower .
So the grounds on which we fought it and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ argument about the fact that the government actually did not have the legal right to do what it was doing because pension law did not allow it to do that .
And also your question about how did the government justify what it was doing , I mean the regulations actually didn ’ t mention Israel or Palestine at all .
They were framed in a way that said local government pension schemes can not choose to divest in support of boycott , divestment and sanctions campaigns in any situation where the UK @ @ @ @ @ @ @ So didn ’ t specifically mention Israel , but in the whole of the rhetoric around the regulations , the government may clear this was about stopping BDS that was targeted , a company ’ s complicit in Israel ’ s violation of Palestinian human rights .
When the regulations were announced , they were actually announced , if I recall correctly in a press conference in Tel Aviv , so the minister responsible nine districts in Tel Aviv and make clear that these were part of their view about the illegitimacy of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , why did they say that boycott was illegitimate ?
Because they use the line that , without stating it boldly , that boycott is inherently antisemitic , they used the line , “ The boycott campaigns damage community cohesion.
” In other words , that boycott campaigns are in some way targeted at the Jewish community , which is inherently untrue .
The BDS movement is run on anti-racist principles .
It targets complicity and not identity .
It targets companies and institutions and organizations that are directly supporting Israel ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : There ’ s a lot of conflation between criticism of the state of Israel and antisemitism , but the court ruled in favor of PCS .
What reasons did they give behind their decision ?
Ben Jamal : So as I said , we made the argument and the thrust of our campaign obviously was the ethical position , but we had to fight it .
And the reason we took the cases , we were advised that we had good legal grounds and that the most likely chance of success was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ power .
There ’ s a principle in UK law relies on a Latin phrase called ultra vires .
It means you ’ re acting outside the boundaries of the powers you have .
So the argument that was used in that one was the pension regulations , the pension law to which the government attached these regulations puts obligations upon pension companies to make decisions that are always in the benefit of their members to enhance proper investment decisions , et cetera .
And the argument in that one was the government @ @ @ @ @ @ @ conditions to how they invest money .
That had nothing to do with any of those considerations .
I thought they were to do with foreign policy positions .
So that ’ s the basis on which we won .
So it ’ s a very important victory .
Obviously the legal principle was narrow , but as a line in the sand against the government attempts to introduce anti-bias law is very important .
But we do have another battle on our hands because the government in the recent Queen ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ statement that a new government makes when it ’ s elected , about what laws it intends to bring in over the next parliament over the next five years .
The government has announced that intends to introduce another law that would ban all public bodies from supporting BDS campaign .
So we know I have to take the fuel from this victory and build the coalition , which we ’ re in the process of doing to oppose the next law that the government is trying to bring in .
Kim Brown @ @ @ @ @ @ @ important and interesting , not just for people in the UK , but really all over the world and here in the US various politicians such as New York governor Andrew Cuomo has said that they can ’ t control what people buy or choose not to buy , but state institutions can nevertheless ban BDS activities and choose to boycott any company or organization that practices BDS .
So in a way , if it ’ s a public institutions don ’ t belong to the people , but are the private @ @ @ @ @ @ @ agenda , do you think that the decision of the UK Supreme Court will have an impact beyond the Britain ’ s borders ?
Ben Jamal : I mean , I hope it does in two ways .
One , I think it encourages campaigners across with huge numbers of messages coming into us from fellow solidarity activists around the world .
We ’ ve had messages , numerous messages from Palestine .
One that stuck with me is someone who described it as a historic day and I spoke to them and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be able to play in this , anti-semitism is a narrow vitreous and important victory.
” They said , “ No ” , they don ’ t understand .
I ’ m a Palestinian myself , so I did understand we Palestinians don ’ t win many victories against the UK government .
And of course there ’ s a whole history going back to the boat for a declaration that informs that statement .
And they also said to us , we ’ re all walking foot taller today .
So it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ solidarity , is important as encouraging others , we can fight back against these laws where we have legal tools available to us .
They are something we should use as part of our campaigning as well as making the political case .
They ’ re also though important in other ways .
We hope the more victories we win like this is an international solidarity movement , the more we send a message to those trying to introduce these punishers laws that they will be opposed and that we can build political @ @ @ @ @ @ @ law ourselves where it ’ s available to us to oppose these attempts .
They ’ re really about suppressing the Palestinian peoples rights to call for action by the international community to oppose their oppression .
But individual ’ s rights to say , “ Well , I wish to show solidarity for the Palestinian people and I want to take action to ensure that my country , my institutions , my local authority , my university is not complicit in supporting this injustice in how it spends its money , particularly @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
It might be my money .
So they ’ re choosing to invest in illegal and immoral activities.
” Kim Brown : A major decision announced by the UK Supreme Court and a big victory for the BDS movement .
Today we ’ ve been speaking with Ben Jamal .
Ben is the director of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign .
He ’ s been joining us today from London .
Ben , we appreciate your time in speaking with us .
Thank you so much .
Ben Jamal : Nice to be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ thank you for watching The Real News Network .

The Palestine Solidarity Campaign, the largest British Palestinian solidarity group, successfully petitioned to reverse a 2016 ban preventing local governments divesting from companies involved in the Israeli occupation.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Kim Brown: Welcome to The Real News. I’m Kim Brown. A major decision by the UK Supreme Court protects the rights of organizations, including government organizations, to boycott, divest and sanction the State of Israel, even companies that support the exploitation of Palestine. In 2016, the British government issued severe guidelines banning government organizations and even local governments from participating in the BDS movement in any way.
Now this has impacted the Local Government Pension Scheme, the LGPS, which were obligated to invest the pension money of public service workers in companies that violate international law. Now, that decision was met in Britain with some resistance. Channel four of the BBC spoke with Rafeef Ziadah from the Palestine Society at SOAS University.
Rafeef Ziadah: I think it’s disgraceful that the British government has decided to intervene in this way, attacking local democracy and stopping councils from making ethical decisions around investments. I think the public has every right to be able to intervene in these issues, to talk to our elected officials and to have an impact on corporations that we disagree with, involved in arms trade, against sweatshop labor and for Palestinian rights as well.
Kim Brown: In response to the government decision at the time, world famous journalist Glenn Greenwald said that the attempt to ban BDS is the worst attack on freedom of speech in the West in contemporary times. So joining us to discuss this today is Ben Jamal. Ben is the director of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, which is the largest UK civil society organization dedicated to securing Palestinian human rights. He joins us today from London. Ben, thank you so much for being here.
Ben Jamal: Nice to be here Kim.
Kim Brown: So, Ben, let’s go back to 2016 for a moment because I wanted to get your opinion about the British government’s decision to ban a boycott. We’ll get into, did they have the right to do so, in just a moment. But I wanted to get your take as to why they took this extraordinary step to put this down on paper.
Ben Jamal: Yeah. Well, I think, and we said this at the time, we had to really understand the government’s move as part of the global campaign that’s been going on for many years and which is right with the support of friendly allies amongst Western government, has sought to use what’s defined as law [inaudible 00:02:31] seeking to introduce laws that effectively criminalize BDS. So we’ve seen laws introduced in the United States, I think more than 20 States have such laws. We’ve seen them introduced in France, we’ve seen them introduced in Germany, is part of the wider campaign to de-legitimize the Palestine Solidarity Movement and de-legitimized activism for Palestine. And these regulations that the government introduced in the UK in 2016 with the first serious attempt we’d seen in the UK to do something similar and to attempt to prohibit action that was effectively… People making decisions not to invest money in companies that were complicit in Israel’s violations of international law to attempt to prohibit that sort of activity.
Kim Brown: So talk to us a little bit about the appeal. What exactly did PCS argue in front of the UK Supreme court and how did the government defend its decision to impose a ban on BDS, on local governments?
Ben Jamal: Well, our argument was framed around… First of all, the obligation as we saw it of public bodies not to be complicit in having their money invested, having the money of their pension scheme holders invested in companies that we’re complicit in international law violations complicit in the violation of human rights, it was about the rights of pension holders on how their money was going to be spent. That if they said, “I don’t want my pension invested in a company that’s helping build illegal settlements”, they should have that right. The grounds on which we had to fight the case were narrower. So the grounds on which we fought it and on which we won, were an argument about the fact that the government actually did not have the legal right to do what it was doing because pension law did not allow it to do that.
And also your question about how did the government justify what it was doing, I mean the regulations actually didn’t mention Israel or Palestine at all. They were framed in a way that said local government pension schemes cannot choose to divest in support of boycott, divestment and sanctions campaigns in any situation where the UK government itself has not imposed sanction. So didn’t specifically mention Israel, but in the whole of the rhetoric around the regulations, the government may clear this was about stopping BDS that was targeted, a company’s complicit in Israel’s violation of Palestinian human rights. When the regulations were announced, they were actually announced, if I recall correctly in a press conference in Tel Aviv, so the minister responsible nine districts in Tel Aviv and make clear that these were part of their view about the illegitimacy of boycott and the way they framed that, why did they say that boycott was illegitimate? Because they use the line that, without stating it boldly, that boycott is inherently antisemitic, they used the line, “The boycott campaigns damage community cohesion.”
In other words, that boycott campaigns are in some way targeted at the Jewish community, which is inherently untrue. The BDS movement is run on anti-racist principles. It targets complicity and not identity. It targets companies and institutions and organizations that are directly supporting Israel’s violation of human rights.
Kim Brown: There’s a lot of conflation between criticism of the state of Israel and antisemitism, but the court ruled in favor of PCS. What reasons did they give behind their decision?
Ben Jamal: So as I said, we made the argument and the thrust of our campaign obviously was the ethical position, but we had to fight it. And the reason we took the cases, we were advised that we had good legal grounds and that the most likely chance of success was the government didn’t have the power. There’s a principle in UK law relies on a Latin phrase called ultra vires. It means you’re acting outside the boundaries of the powers you have. So the argument that was used in that one was the pension regulations, the pension law to which the government attached these regulations puts obligations upon pension companies to make decisions that are always in the benefit of their members to enhance proper investment decisions, et cetera. And the argument in that one was the government did not have the right to attach conditions to how they invest money.
That had nothing to do with any of those considerations. I thought they were to do with foreign policy positions. So that’s the basis on which we won. So it’s a very important victory. Obviously the legal principle was narrow, but as a line in the sand against the government attempts to introduce anti-bias law is very important. But we do have another battle on our hands because the government in the recent Queen’s Speech, so that’s the statement that a new government makes when it’s elected, about what laws it intends to bring in over the next parliament over the next five years. The government has announced that intends to introduce another law that would ban all public bodies from supporting BDS campaign. So we know I have to take the fuel from this victory and build the coalition, which we’re in the process of doing to oppose the next law that the government is trying to bring in.
Kim Brown: The court’s decision is important and interesting, not just for people in the UK, but really all over the world and here in the US various politicians such as New York governor Andrew Cuomo has said that they can’t control what people buy or choose not to buy, but state institutions can nevertheless ban BDS activities and choose to boycott any company or organization that practices BDS. So in a way, if it’s a public institutions don’t belong to the people, but are the private tools of politicians to promote a pro-Israel agenda, do you think that the decision of the UK Supreme Court will have an impact beyond the Britain’s borders?
Ben Jamal: I mean, I hope it does in two ways. One, I think it encourages campaigners across with huge numbers of messages coming into us from fellow solidarity activists around the world. We’ve had messages, numerous messages from Palestine. One that stuck with me is someone who described it as a historic day and I spoke to them and said, “Look, you might be able to play in this, anti-semitism is a narrow vitreous and important victory.” They said, “No”, they don’t understand. I’m a Palestinian myself, so I did understand we Palestinians don’t win many victories against the UK government. And of course there’s a whole history going back to the boat for a declaration that informs that statement. And they also said to us, we’re all walking foot taller today. So it’s important as an act of solidarity, is important as encouraging others, we can fight back against these laws where we have legal tools available to us.
They are something we should use as part of our campaigning as well as making the political case. They’re also though important in other ways. We hope the more victories we win like this is an international solidarity movement, the more we send a message to those trying to introduce these punishers laws that they will be opposed and that we can build political campaigns and public support and use the law ourselves where it’s available to us to oppose these attempts. They’re really about suppressing the Palestinian peoples rights to call for action by the international community to oppose their oppression. But individual’s rights to say, “Well, I wish to show solidarity for the Palestinian people and I want to take action to ensure that my country, my institutions, my local authority, my university is not complicit in supporting this injustice in how it spends its money, particularly where that money might belong to me. It might be my money. So they’re choosing to invest in illegal and immoral activities.”
Kim Brown: A major decision announced by the UK Supreme Court and a big victory for the BDS movement. Today we’ve been speaking with Ben Jamal. Ben is the director of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign. He’s been joining us today from London. Ben, we appreciate your time in speaking with us. Thank you so much.
Ben Jamal: Nice to be here Kim.
Kim Brown: And thank you for watching The Real News Network.
Production: Genevieve Montinar, Cameron Granadino
Studio: Cameron Granadino
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therealnews--2020-05-07--Stir Crazy! Episode #30: Trump Infects The USPS

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therealnews--2020-05-07--Women In Prison Need More Than Cuomo’s Order To Help Against COVID-19

Incarcerated women still face inadequate testing and an inability to self-isolate , and few will be helped by Cuomo ’ @ @ @ @ @ elderly women .

Incarcerated women still face inadequate testing and an inability to self-isolate, and few will be helped by Cuomo’s announcement releasing pregnant and elderly women.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Eddie Conway: Welcome to this episode of Rattling The Bars for The Real News, I’m Eddie Conway, your host. We have been doing a lot of reporting on the COVID-19 impact on prisons across the country. The one thing that seems absent from most of the media outlets is what’s the situation with women in prison? Women with their babies in prison, women in minimum security, women in vulnerable positions. So, joining me today is two people that have been working with prisoners, women and men. And so, Tia Hamilton, which is the founder of a magazine, The State Versus Us, and joining me also is Serena Liguori. Can both of you all give me like an overview and an update on what’s happening with women in prison? Serena, you start, and Tia, you follow up.
Serena Liguori: Sure. Thank you so much, Eddie, for having me with you. My role as Executive Director at New Hour for Women and Children Long Island is really to go into the jails across Long Island and work with women while they’re incarcerated, and when they come home. Apart from that, I’m also somebody who served time when I was 19, and that experience changed my life in many profound ways. What I’ve realized over the years of doing this work is that women are completely forgotten, and the needs and issues that women and mothers have behind bars are almost never addressed.
Even when we hear about the some-44,000 people in New York state who are in prison, there’s about 1,600 women, and that’s a small number. Very easy to make sure we make an effort to meet their needs, release those who are able to be safely released, and to return the 13 mothers and babies in the Bedford Hills State Prison Home, especially during COVID. I think what we find is that to do anything less is truly irresponsible on the part of those of us who know better.
Eddie Conway: Okay.
Tia Hamilton: So, that’s a fact, Serena. Let’s just take… I’m in Baltimore, so let’s just take Maryland Prison for right now, before I move on to the other numbers that’s going on in the whole BOP and some states. In Maryland, there are over 217 coronavirus cases reported in the Maryland prison system. Now, when it comes to over 157 officers and 10 staff members are affected, come on. Because we are already in a controlled environment, when we talking about the prison system. They already can control the environment. So in order for them to get it, it has to be brought to them. That means staff has to bring it inside the prison. So, when you look at the fact that they don’t have no sensitivity to know that, okay, because they are incarcerated, they are human. Let’s try to fight for them, like they would fight for themselves or they family members, is sickening.
So, when we have over 50 incarcerated individuals, and I think 25 to 30 of those cases are coming from the Maryland prison system… And for the women, it’s heartbreaking, and no one’s doing anything. So, one of my supporters just sent me a message, saying that even in Hagerstown Prison in Maryland, the warden is claiming that they haven’t received any orders to release anyone from there, and supposedly over 2,000 incarcerated individuals have been released.
Eddie Conway: Okay. Can you… And both of you all can take a stab at this, also. Tia, you can start on this one… Can you tell me what gender specific risks are involved with women, and what women should be given priorities for getting released?
Tia Hamilton: Pregnancy. Pregnancy. Incarcerated women that are pregnant. And the sad truth is that with the incarcerated pregnant women in Jessup, Maryland… The only women’s facility in the state of Maryland is in Jessup. The pregnant women there are already on confinement, as if they did something wrong to get put on lockup. They are already on 23/1, coming out every other day. They are pregnant. Those women need to be released ASAP. Women that are 60 and over need to be released ASAP. Women that are one year to two years left to do on they time need to be released ASAP. Disabled women need to be released ASAP. Disabilities, sick and shut in women, need to be released ASAP. And this goes for the men, as well.
Serena Liguori: So Tia, to really echo what you are saying, what we’re hearing from the New York State Department of Corrections and Community Supervision, what we’re hearing about how the treatment of women is taking place in the facilities, is that they are being put in 23, 22 hour lock in their cells, as a response to heading off the spread of COVID-19. What this is doing is it’s inducing serious mental health consequences. And what we realize is that many women who are pregnant people, who are older than 55, which by DOC standards is considered elderly, many medically fragile and vulnerable, are just not going to be able to receive healthcare.
This kind of breaks it down. For those of us who’ve been behind bars, you know. You have a toothache, and you get Pepto Bismol. I mean, the medical care in facilities is egregious at best in any time, and to say that now they’re going to prevent and treat and heal and make sure people recover from COVID-19? Most people behind bars feel if they contract COVID-19, they will die, and they may not be wrong about that estimation.
Eddie Conway: From your perspective, have any women been released, say in New York state, Maryland state? And if so, how many, and if not, who’s pushing to seek the release for those most vulnerable women? Serena, you want to start?
Serena Liguori: Sure. So, what we’ve done is we’ve created, along with WCJA, which is the Women’s Community Justice Association, along with New Hour and over 200 organizations… We’ve created a task force. That task force is the Justice for Women COVID-19 Task Force. We’ve sent an open letter to Governor Cuomo and to the acting commissioner for Corrections, Annucci, Anthony Annucci, and we’ve said, “What are you doing to make sure that folks, especially women, are released during this time?” To date, we have not heard of any women being released. Of that 1,619 or so women, we are not hearing about any releases because of COVID-19 and preventing the spread. This frankly speaks to the lack of empathy, and the overall just disregard of women behind bars.
I mean, certainly we know men are often disregarded as well, and are undervalued as humans. But women are completely left off the table. What we know is there are plenty of women who pose no safety risk if they were to come home now. I mean, you have mothers in a nursery with babies that they gave birth to in that prison. All 13 of them should be home with their babies right now. There is no reason that I can think of that that mother is not safe to be in the community with her baby, versus being in a prison that’s basically on lockdown.
Tia Hamilton: Serena, you are absolutely correct. When we talk about in the state of Maryland, we currently right now have a lady who’s been locked up, I want to say 42 years. Don’t quote me, but it’s been a long time. She is right now positive and in the hospital fighting for her life, right here in Maryland. She was housed at the Jessup Women’s Facility. And they don’t care. So, she’s in the hospital fighting for her life, and they still have her in handcuffs. They still have her confined. And the governor has not bust a move to release her, so she could get adequate and proper care. Because we all know, if you’re sitting in the hospital via the prison, you’re not going to get treated properly.
Her name is [Irina Pretty 00:09:08], and we are fighting for her right now. So, shout out to Monica Cooper, who’s with the Maryland Justice Program. She’s fighting. I’m fighting. I put together a list of demands. I did a demand letter that went out to… It hasn’t went out to all the prisons, as the goal. But so far, it has went to every prison in Chicago. I mean Illinois. It has went to every prison in Michigan, every prison in Iowa. We’re working on the rest of New York. We’re working on California. I have people all over this country with this letter, either emailing it or mailing it directly to every governor, lieutenant governor, every warden and assistant warden. We either mailing or emailing or both.
And this is what we have to do. The demand is to call. You could pick a prison in your state. It doesn’t even matter. Call and demand the release of incarcerated individuals. Our women, to get to they kids. Our men, to get to they children. We need this now. COVID-19 is in the prison and are killing them, and no one seems to care except for us advocates. The people in charge, they don’t give a darn. They don’t care. They moving along everyday life like everything is okay, when we have people who should not be affected at all, that are affected.
Eddie Conway: If either one of you all can address this. Look at what’s happening across the country. Say, like I’m aware in Louisiana, there’s a Gloria Williams. She’s 74 years old. She’s been incarcerated for 50 years. Now she’s done caught the virus. They’re not releasing her, I don’t believe. And so, do you have an awareness of other situations around the country, what’s happening to women, older women, women at risk, et cetera? Tia, you want to jump on that?
Tia Hamilton: Yes. We are not getting our people released fast enough. They claiming they releasing people, but we are not seeing the actual numbers. You know they done falsifying COVID-19 numbers, just like they are falsifying the number of incarcerated individuals that they have released. They are also falsifying the numbers that are actually in the prison.
I have a cousin that’s here in Maryland calling me, telling me that it’s bad. Because what I did was, everyone that I’m in contact with throughout the prison, whether it’s fed or state, I have them emailing me, calling me, writing me, doing whatever they have to do to let me know what’s going on. And our women are the most vulnerable. They are not being taken care of. Right now, from the BOP website, as of the 23rd of this month, there have been over 620 incarcerated people confirmed by lab test in coronavirus, out of 1,000… I’m sorry… Out of 153,467 currently incarcerated. 24 incarcerated people have died from the COVID, but that’s a fake number. All the numbers that they are giving are fake. They’re not even giving accurate numbers, whether it’s negative or positive.
So the fight continues, to push the envelope and to force them to make it right. Release our elderly women. Release our sick women. Release women who… If you a woman incarcerated, or a male, and you’ve got tuberculosis, that’s grounds for getting released. You are at risk. If you are pregnant, you’re not only putting yourself in harm, the baby’s at harm as well. And our leadership is not doing enough to put this in place to release men and women from these prisons.
And here, the governor is Larry Hogan. Now, he’s done a good job on certain things. But for some reason, we get to the prison piece with Larry Hogan, he just look like a deer in headlights. When it comes to passing laws that make sense, he veto them. When it comes to this situation, he’s not even addressing it like he should when he’s doing pressers. This is a big situation that need to be discussed, and it need to be discussed daily, hourly, every minute, until our men and women are released from out of these prisons.
Serena Liguori: Yes. And just to piggyback on what you’re saying, Tia, we are hearing the same thing in New York state. So, Governor Cuomo, when asked about how many people have contracted the virus, how many people are being tested, they are touting that they have low numbers of folks in prison who have contracted the virus. And what we know is true is most of the inmates are not getting tested. And so, we’ve got something like 28, 20… There was 29 women tested at Bedford Hills Correctional Facility, which has just under about 300 women. 24 of them came back positive. How is it that there aren’t more tests being administered? And what we’re hearing, from the phone calls and the letters we’re getting, is that there is a refusal of the medical staff to test anybody, because they don’t want to inflate their numbers to the truthful numbers of how many folks have contracted the illness.
The other piece is that for those who have died… I think there’s eight people now behind bars who have died of COVID-19 in New York state prisons. And what they’re doing is, for those who don’t have family to go back to, to take the remains back to, they have prisoners digging graves. And so, this is just… There are no words to describe what kind of trauma this is creating in the prisons. And the fact that they’re not being honest about how many people have the virus, and how many people have requested testing.
And so, docs… Governor Cuomo was asked, “Well, what are you doing to prevent the spread?” And they said, “Oh. Well, we’re not using isolated confinement. We’re very aware that we want to halt the use of solitary confinement in prisons.” And in fact, that’s exactly what they’re doing in the prisons right now, is putting everyone in 23, 22 hour lock. This is dire, and deadly for people who have mental health issues, and for anyone. We all know what it’s like to be living in isolation right now in our homes, and the struggle that is with every comfort you could imagine, in terms of food and your family, and phone calls and video calling. To be in a cell, and to be left there for days and days and days and months, and there’s no surety that after COVID-19 ends for our community and is controlled, that it will then end for the prisons. So, we may see a resurgence of the use of solitary as a consistent way of keeping the virus from spreading. So, more punishment and inhumane treatment.
Eddie Conway: So, what can people outside do, since there’s no visits allowed? I understand that petitions is one of the things. What else can they do, and what should people be doing, whether they have family, friends, or loved ones in prison? If they’re just concerned about stopping what could be a possible genocide epidemic here in America, what can people do? Do you want to start off, Serena?
Serena Liguori: Yes. This is absolutely the time to raise our voices, call our lawmakers, make phone calls to the governor’s office, write letters. Post on Facebook. You know, it sounds simple, but a lot of people are, and rightly so, applauding our first responders, our nurses and doctors. No one is talking about those who are languishing behind bars. And many of us, we know that the United States over-incarcerates, and the issue of mass incarceration is not going away. This is a perfect time to de-carcerate the prison system, and they are choosing not to do that, when it’s safe to do that. This is a time for us to call out our elected officials, and to make noise, and to write letters. Call the facility. Express concern to the superintendents there. Let everyone know that the people behind bars, the 44,000 men and women, are not forgotten, and that this is intolerable. It is egregious, and it’s got to end. It’s got to stop. We’ve got to make sure that people come home, and are in an environment where they are not going to die from contracting COVID-19.
Tia Hamilton: Well, people can first take a prison, a jail, whether it’s state or fed. Call that prison daily. It doesn’t have to be someone you know that’s locked up, for you to feel human about what’s happening in today’s society. We have to, as a community, come together to de-carcerate our people. We are a community. We are not even the largest population, but we the largest prison population, and black people are affected more.
We have to stop playing. We need to get on the phones with these wardens, with these system wardens. We need to get on the phone with sergeants at these prisons. We need to get on the phone with governors, lieutenant governors, officers. We need to also find out who’s in charge of the Division of Corrections in that state and city. That’s what we need to do. That’s how you fight this against them. We have to hold them accountable, all of these elected officials. We have to get on the phone, and we have to call. Call, call every day. You want the list of demands, and you want to see how it starts off, then visit my website at statevsusmag.com. Sign the petition. And in that petition, just don’t sign it. Read it first. Sign it. Read it, sign it, and then you’ll see the list of demands, and how to go about. What you need to say to contact these prisons that you choose to contact.
Here in Maryland, we are going to have a rally May the 1st at 2:00 P.M., out in Jessup, Maryland, where we are going to force the hands of these leaders, these corrections, Division of Corrections, and the governor, to release our men and women from the prison. So, meet us in Jessup. It’s a whole strip of prisons. If you familiar with Maryland and Jessup, you know there’s a whole bunch of prisons. If you want that information on where to start and the map, email me at statevsusmag@gmail.com, and I will be more than happy to send you the information you need to meet us there, and to fight COVID-19 together, to get the release of our men and women out of there.
Eddie Conway: Okay. Thank you Tia, Serena, for joining me for this episode.
Tia Hamilton: Absolutely, and I thank you for having me.
Eddie Conway: All right. So, yeah. You can forward that information. And just a word of caution. Remember social distancing. Wear your masks. Make sure you all protect you all self. You’re trying to save lives. Don’t lose any. Okay?
Tia Hamilton: Absolutely.
Serena Liguori: Yes. And Eddie, if I could just add one more point?
Eddie Conway: Okay.
Serena Liguori: We had a rally outside of the Nassau jail last week, and what we’re hearing even from officers is that they are afraid that they haven’t received enough PPE to keep from the spread. And so, what we’re realizing is this is not about inmates versus officers. We’re all in this together. And the prison system is an integral part of our community, because we know 80 to 90% of folks come home. And so, next Wednesday we also are going to be participating in a presser to end the use of solitary confinement. Now more than ever, with bail reform, there’s more space in the facilities, and they’re not using the space. They’re choosing to put people in cells, when they don’t need to do that in terms of creating a prevention of the spread.
Eddie Conway: Thanks for joining this episode of Rattling Bars for The Real News.
Studio: Cameron Granadino
Production: Ericka Blount Danois
Post-Production: Oscar León
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