therealnews--2020-11-13--What Wisconsin’s vote says about America’s future

Former Madison City Councilman David Ahrens and Milwaukee activist Angela Lang join TRNN ’ s discussion of the ongoing battle over Wisconsin ’ s 2020 election results .
The following is a rush transcription of this interview and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Marc Steiner : Welcome to the Real News Network , this is Marc Steiner , good to have you with us as always .
As you know , as this election keeps unfolding , Wisconsin is one of those states that was a crucial swing statement in this election .
It ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ emblematic of the struggle that all of America faces .
It home of Robert La Follette and the beginnings of the progressive movement .
A state where segregationist George Wallace took almost a third of the vote in 1964 , where the lieutenant governor is a progressive African-American named Mandela Barnes , and where the Republican-controlled state legislature engineered by Karl Rove gerrymanders Democrats out of power and circumvents the voting rights of people in that state , especially African-Americans .
It ’ s the home of political progressivism and a state deeply @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , let ’ s remember that the Biden Harris victory so far in Wisconsin was ultimately held over the top of Milwaukee ’ s Black population in coming out to vote .
That was the case in so many of the states in this country right now .
So today , we ’ re joined by Angela Lang , who is the founder and executive director of Black Leaders Organizing for Community for Change in Milwaukee and David Ahrens who served six years on the Madison City Council and as a research director @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s Medical School and Public Health School .
So , welcome back both of you .
It ’ s great to see you .
David Ahrens : Good to see you , Marc .
Marc Steiner : So , it is , this has unfolded , one of the things I read this morning in the paper as I was preparing for this , was that … I think I have his name right , the assembly leader in Wisconsin , Vos , was already pushing to say there was all this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ centered in where ?
Milwaukee .
So tell me what ’ s happening with that ?
Angela Lang : Yeah , I mean , it ’ s a trend that we saw , I think all across the country over the last several days and ever since the election .
We saw that the Trump campaign wanted to stop the counts of the ballots , knowing that Milwaukee hadn ’ t been counted yet , Detroit hadn ’ t been counted yet , and Philly hasn ’ t been counted yet .
So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ tactic , to try and yet again , undermine Black voters and Black voices , and ultimately that didn ’ t happen .
What I ’ ve been telling other folks is that it is the right of the campaign to exhaust whatever legal options that are presented to them .
If they want to do a recount , that is their decision to make .
But even we know that former governor Scott Walker said that , that margin is going to be very difficult to overcome .
So , it seems @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are trying to find ways to silence and really acknowledged the power , that not only the Black community has , but communities of color all across the country and how they really showed up .
David Ahrens : The speaker , and that ’ s Vos , wants to establish a committee with subpoena power .
I ’ ve worked in politics here for almost 40 years .
I ’ ve never heard of a legislative committee that has subpoena power .
The purpose of the committee as Angela mentioned , is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in the Milwaukee area .
So it will be a real … the purpose of it is to put on a show and to again , intimidate both the population as a whole and potentially the leadership .
This is a leader who has gone to court to prevent the most common sense measures to stem the COVID virus , where we ’ re the third worst in the country .
Every day we have another record amount .
So he ’ s doing absolutely nothing on the skyrocketing death and hospitalization rate @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on this nonsensical investigation .
Hopefully he ’ ll come under enough flack to stop it , but he ’ s talking to his base .
Marc Steiner : So , let ’ s take a step back in history a moment here , because I think when I look at Wisconsin , as I said in the beginning of this program today , that it really is in many ways , emblematic of the battle in this country for who we are as Americans .
I ’ ve been doing a lot @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Karl Rove and his red map strategy , that he started in 2010 with millions of millions of dollars of corporate money behind him actually , and other money as well .
One of his target states was your state , Wisconsin .
So in that , he was able to , in his strategic moves to create , a Republican-held legislature that has gerrymandered districts to ensure Republican power and right wing power , has engaged in voter suppression , especially in Black and Indigenous communities in Wisconsin .
In that sense @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this is the battleground for the future , of this country , of Wisconsin , for our children and grandchildren , for what ’ s going to happen .
So talk a bit about that .
I mean , about how you have both fought to address that , where do you think it is now and what it says about our entire body politic in this country ?
Angela , you want to jump in first ?
Angela Lang : Yeah .
The issue of gerrymandering is actually something that we started @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
So BLOC has been around since November of 2017 , so we ’ re just coming up on our three-year anniversary .
A couple of months in , we actually got connected to the National Democratic Redistricting Committee that ’ s led by former Attorney General Eric Holder .
We ’ ve become very close , we have deep partnerships with them and we know the impact of it .
We know it ’ s also an issue that our community doesn ’ t know a lot about .
We feel the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ve actually done a lot of popular education style type of trainings , to have those conversations .
Because a lot of times people may not know the history of gerrymandering and how it ’ s impacting them , but yet we ’ re seeing the effects every day .
I think we see that play out in the state of Wisconsin as well .
So when people demand legalization of marijuana , for example , or decriminalization of marijuana , you ’ ll see overwhelming support for it , but the policies @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s because , our leaders , they don ’ t feel that they have to bend to the will of the people .
They don ’ t need to bend to their constituents because the maps are so heavily gerrymandered .
They really get to act and make policies without impunity , which I think is really , really dangerous for a healthy democracy .
David Ahrens : Yeah .
In this last election cycle , once again , there was somewhere between a 10 % and 15 % vote margin between @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for the legislature , and then the percentage that are actually elected .
So we had about a 48 % vote for Democrats , and we have 33 % representation in the legislature .
As Angela mentioned , you could go down a list of all the most important legislative initiatives .
I think the key one for us is Medicaid expansion .
Wisconsin is one of the 10 states in the country that have not gone through a Medicaid expansion .
70 % of the population supports it , it never has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
So , it ’ s a legislature that ’ s really out of whack with the population , because getting back again to COVID , the vast majority of people support people wearing masks , that ’ s … the legislature opposes .
They support limiting public gatherings , legislature opposes it , and has gone to court to stop it .
So it ’ s unfortunately because of the makeup , one gerrymander map perpetuates another gerrymander map .
So now again , we have a legislature that is overwhelmingly Republican @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the maps for the next decade .
Marc Steiner : Exactly and that leads me to the next question , which I ’ ve been thinking about a lot when it comes to Wisconsin , what it says to the rest of the country .
I mean , both of you in different parts of Wisconsin are progressive leaders and thinkers in that state and in the work that you ’ ve done .
So when you look at the vote , and I know in the last time I voted , I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it right , of the statewide vote , went for Democrats and again , fewer seats in the legislature and other [ inaudible 00:09:11 ] take place .
I talked a bit about Karl Rove and his part in that .
So what is a political strategy to fight for a more inclusive society ?
To deal with issues of racism , to deal with everything in voting rights and a more equitable economy ?
So what do you all talk about together when it comes to strategically how to address this , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ against ?
Angela Lang : I think for me , what ’ s important is continue doing what we have been doing .
Something that ’ s been a focal point for BLOC is making sure that we are a year-round organization .
We ’ re already strategizing for next year .
We ’ re talking about different programs that we want to launch .
We ’ re already thinking about the midterms , already had a candidate just a few minutes ago who announced that they were running is calling .
So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of downtime .
We also have elections in the spring .
So what ’ s really important for us is to make sure that we ’ re doing that education in between election cycles .
We ’ re really excited for when the spring elections are over to continue to dig in .
We ’ re having conversations with folks .
We ’ re still educating our team and our folks , because I think that ’ s how you build power .
You build power when people start to understand their place @ @ @ @ @ @ @ power that they have as well and the agency that they have , in breaking down some of these really tough , hard to follow policies .
We got a lot of questions in April , after our disastrous election that we talked about earlier , about how was this allowed to happen ?
So we actually took all of those things that we were seeing , how is this allowed to happen ?
How was that allowed to happen ?
We took a step back and we said , “ Research gerrymandering @ @ @ @ @ @ @ film All In that just came out with Stacey Abrams that ’ s talking about voter suppression.
” Being able to have some of those conversations , training our team internally and then being able to spread that information as well , so people start to pay attention a little bit more and instead of saying , “ Hey , how was that allowed to happen ?
” Hopefully we ’ re able to make some interventions and so that doesn ’ t happen again .
David Ahrens : Right , yeah .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ saying , when we talk about spring elections here , we ’ re talking about local elections .
So that becomes a major strategy , is to make sure that in local communities where we can consolidate a base and win power , that we ’ re actually doing that .
So I think in a lot of local communities , that ’ s taken place .
Again , going back to the gerrymander piece , every community where that has been put up for a popular vote at a countywide referendum , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is to have an impartial , nonpartisan commission .
So we ’ re working at the local level and then where possible at the state level , as you know , in last spring , it was quite an upset where a liberal candidate took out an incumbent supreme court member .
So we hope to replicate that in another year or so , and to take out another Republican supreme court justice .
So there are avenues to work .
the other part is , is to make sure that we have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have another Scott Walker with this legislature , then we ’ re in deep trouble .
Marc Steiner : So let ’ s talk a bit about another state that Wisconsin finds itself in that really speaks to the nation .
I mean , there were issues raised amendment , I remember at the beginning of this election , about the safety of the Black vote in Milwaukee .
Now there are all kinds of fraud things that Vos and others are pushing that happened in Milwaukee .
David Ahrens : Yeah , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the first .
Marc Steiner : Exactly .
This is an interesting a piece I read that for the third year in a row , Milwaukee and Racine , where it said they were the worst cities for African Americans in the country .
Number one , and number two , by this 24/7 Wall Street [ inaudible 00:13:19 ] in Delaware .
So let ’ s talk about this , the question of race and racism inside of Wisconsin and why it ’ s so virulent and what that history is and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ fits into this larger political mix .
Angela , you can jump off and lead this again , then David jump in .
Angela Lang : Yeah , I think what ’ s really led to it is just all of these years , and we outlined it earlier , in the fact that the Republicans are able to have a decade long plan and act on it .
It starts with gerrymandering and then they ’ re able to chip away at these policies .
It starts by making sure that they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ by weaponizing a global pandemic as a means of voter suppression for the April election .
We see these things constantly happen and I think what we noticed a lot of times , that I think a lot of us feel , is that it feels like Milwaukee against the rest of the state .
So every time people say , “ Oh , well , Milwaukee , ” it ’ s usually dog whistle all of the time .
If people say , “ Oh , well , Milwaukeeans should just do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ about Black and Brown voters and that ’ s very clear .
That ’ s why we see people try to chip away at the power that Milwaukee has .
We ’ re the largest economic engine in the state , but yet people don ’ t treat us as if we are .
I think that ’ s where a lot of the racism comes in .
We see racist police departments .
We see some of our checks and balances in Milwaukee .
We have a fire and police commission that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and in corruption the last couple of years now at this point .
So , I think people try to prey on that and we see that Wisconsin is the worst place to raise a Black child .
We are the worst place for segregation .
You mentioned the history of Milwaukee and Racine .
We know what happened with the attempted murder of Jacob Blake .
So we constantly see all of these things , and it really does feel like the tale of two states , you have Milwaukee and you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ When people are providing those narratives that really come out of the legislature , that perpetuates those stereotypes that Milwaukee has nothing but murder , mayhem , and chaos , which is what a legislator referred to it as a few years ago .
So we see that often , and I think that doesn ’ t help when it comes to policies and it really perpetuates this urban and rural divide .
But yet , there ’ s a lot of ways that people are trying to overcome that .
We ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ understand and dairy farmers stand with Black Lives Matter and folks in Milwaukee care about the wellbeing of dairy farmers , but that ’ s not something that I think is widespread .
I think there ’ s a lot of healing from an urban and rural standpoint and from a race class narrative standpoint , I think there ’ s a lot of work to be done .
I ’ m looking forward to some of the new infrastructure that has popped up to heal and bring those two communities together too @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as somebody who I have known for a while , and know you ’ re also a student of political history .
I mean , talk to me about what Angela was just saying , in terms of where you think the story goes from here and what those roots are , I mean , this is , you know- David Ahrens : Yeah , I think one of the significant roots in Milwaukee is , and this is the rust belt theme , is the de-industrialization of Milwaukee .
30 , 40 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ industrial unionized factories in Milwaukee that paid a good wage for Black workers and white workers as well , but a large part of the workforce was Black and they ’ re gone .
So really the opportunity to earn a living wage was really , really degraded .
After that happened , I mean that took a second hit , which was under Scott Walker when he basically destroyed public employee unionism .
That also , especially in Milwaukee , was a place where Black workers , from people who are parks @ @ @ @ @ @ @ their wages and benefits and rights as workers were degraded .
We also then outlawed union shops .
So there ’ ve been a whole series of really economic catastrophes that then cause political catastrophes .
One of the things that Angela said about the attack of the legislature on Milwaukee , one of the audacious things that the legislature did was to change the term and the pay of Milwaukee County board members .
So they decided that county board members should only work half time and should be paid less than @ @ @ @ @ @ @ changed the structure of the Milwaukee County board .
This was the only county board that they did this to .
So it ’ s really this plantation mentality that we ’ re going to decide really how this local government operates .
Angela Lang : Yeah and to add on to that , they ’ ll be tricky too .
They ’ ll say , “ Oh , any counties or any cities over this amount of population … ” knowing that the only city or county that fits that description will @ @ @ @ @ @ @ our county board get their , their pay cut in half , I believe their benefits were slashed , instead of running every four years , they have to run every two years now and it seemed to be of a part-time job , while we handle so many different elements in the county .
So we also see that also as a way of deterrence .
Who is going to step up and be a county supervisor if you know that the pay is only $ 25,000 now ?
So that could @ @ @ @ @ @ @ well , in that you may have more wealthy people that may not need it for the pay , that may want to fill those seats , versus people that want to be humble public servants and that $ 50,000 could be a decent pay for them and this could be a full-time job .
So we can actually see the composition start to change as well .
I think groups like the Working Families Party and others have been doing the best they could to keep that line and to hold that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Steiner : So let me conclude with this , this is how I began in a way , which is I spent all this time reading about what ’ s going on in Wisconsin , of course , around the country as well .
What does Wisconsin , activists like the both of you , have to say to America about what we face and the struggle we face for the future ?
Because I mean , what ’ s happened Wisconsin over the last 50 years has turned on its head what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Minnesota were supposed to be all about , at least for white folks .
So talk a bit about what would you have to say to America about what happened in Wisconsin and what it says about the fight for the future of this country ?
Oh , I ’ m sorry , let me just … Angela , go ahead .
Angela Lang : I think for us , is that what I would say is that the work continues .
We ’ ve said this long before the election , that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ all of that doesn ’ t mysteriously go away because there is a new president elect at this point , and that our work needs to continue .
I think more broadly , I think Wisconsin is incredibly fascinating .
I think it can be a microcosm of how we can get the work right , how we can come together as working folks , despite a racial background and to overcome that .
I think there ’ s a long history of trying to divide old by race when we can actually @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in group of folks , in a voting block .
We know that our brothers and sisters that are dairy farmers are also struggling the same way that we are in the city of Milwaukee and how are we able to come together over a common message about being able to look out for each other , to support each other , and really go against some of the status quo .
So , I think we know that working class voters and specifically Black and Brown and Indigenous voters really were the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ or to bring the state over the edge in so many different places .
We see the amazing work from the New Georgia Project in Georgia .
We ’ re talking about Georgia new ways , in Texas in new ways and I think a big takeaway , I think from this election , is that Black , Brown and Indigenous voters are the future of this country and there ’ s a lot of organizing opportunities as well with working class folks .
Marc Steiner : And so David , as we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I was thinking about what Angela was saying and all this in the terms of , as I mentioned several times in the course of our conversation , Karl Rove and highly organized the right wing is and what they ’ ve been able to do , and how that plays into the struggle of the future .
David Ahrens : Yeah , yeah .
I think we being progressives are about a decade behind , at least Republicans , in terms of certain levels of organization , and the divide in Wisconsin @ @ @ @ @ @ @ another replica of the divide in the country .
I mean , you look at our two US senators , Tammy Baldwin , very liberal , and Ron Johnson among the most right wing who , upon the election said half of the United States does not see that Biden is legitimate leader of the country .
So he ’ s coming up in two years and as Angela said , the campaign never ends .
So the question is who is going to run against Johnson and then build a coalition against @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , or a urban , or whatever , candidate that is capable of reaching particularly white , non-college educated folks to vote Democratic .
Wisconsin has one of the highest levels of white non-college educated population and I think that ’ s part of the residual base and reaching out for dairy farmers or any kind of farmers that are completely dependent on Latino labor .
I mean , there ’ s probably not a dairy farm in the state that doesn ’ t run without Latino people who are actually working on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to support other parts of the progressive agenda , including immigrant rights , there have been some inroads on that and hope to continue with that .
I think some of the lesson to be learned , as Angela said , where Milwaukee is seen as the other .
Very early on in the COVID epidemic , Milwaukee was the hardest hit place , much harder than anywhere else .
Ron Johnson and others said , “ Well , this COVID thing is just a urban problem .
It can ’ t touch @ @ @ @ @ @ @ completely and is in the most rural parts of the state with as least medical service .
So I think people are learning that , hey , we ’ re all in the same bucket , and there really aren ’ t any divisions here .
We ’ re all part of the human race and got to work together .
Marc Steiner : Well , I want to thank both of you for the time you ’ ve taken with Real News today and also for the years of work you both @ @ @ @ @ @ @ our society .
Angela , also what you have done to build in these few years in Milwaukee , to build a real power presence , has been very important for the rest of the country to see .
So Angela Lang and David Ahrens , thank you both so much for taking your time today and we look forward to having you back again .
Marc Steiner : Bye-bye .
And so for producer , Erica Blount , I ’ m Marc Steiner of the Real News Network .
Thank you all @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what you think and take care .

Trump supporters and protesters demonstrate in front of the Kenosha Courthouse on September 01, 2020 in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Kerem Yucel / AFP via Getty Images
Former Madison City Councilman David Ahrens and Milwaukee activist Angela Lang join TRNN’s discussion of the ongoing battle over Wisconsin’s 2020 election results.
The following is a rush transcription of this interview and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Marc Steiner: Welcome to the Real News Network, this is Marc Steiner, good to have you with us as always. As you know, as this election keeps unfolding, Wisconsin is one of those states that was a crucial swing statement in this election. It’s a very complex place that’s emblematic of the struggle that all of America faces. It home of Robert La Follette and the beginnings of the progressive movement. A state where segregationist George Wallace took almost a third of the vote in 1964, where the lieutenant governor is a progressive African-American named Mandela Barnes, and where the Republican-controlled state legislature engineered by Karl Rove gerrymanders Democrats out of power and circumvents the voting rights of people in that state, especially African-Americans.
It’s the home of political progressivism and a state deeply mired in racism. In that vein, let’s remember that the Biden Harris victory so far in Wisconsin was ultimately held over the top of Milwaukee’s Black population in coming out to vote. That was the case in so many of the states in this country right now. So today, we’re joined by Angela Lang, who is the founder and executive director of Black Leaders Organizing for Community for Change in Milwaukee and David Ahrens who served six years on the Madison City Council and as a research director for labor unions and University of Wisconsin’s Medical School and Public Health School. So, welcome back both of you. It’s great to see you.
Angela Lang: You too.
David Ahrens: Good to see you, Marc.
Marc Steiner: So, it is, this has unfolded, one of the things I read this morning in the paper as I was preparing for this, was that … I think I have his name right, the assembly leader in Wisconsin, Vos, was already pushing to say there was all this vote fraud. Of course it was centered in where? Milwaukee. So tell me what’s happening with that?
Angela Lang: Yeah, I mean, it’s a trend that we saw, I think all across the country over the last several days and ever since the election. We saw that the Trump campaign wanted to stop the counts of the ballots, knowing that Milwaukee hadn’t been counted yet, Detroit hadn’t been counted yet, and Philly hasn’t been counted yet. So I think it was a very clear tactic, to try and yet again, undermine Black voters and Black voices, and ultimately that didn’t happen. What I’ve been telling other folks is that it is the right of the campaign to exhaust whatever legal options that are presented to them. If they want to do a recount, that is their decision to make. But even we know that former governor Scott Walker said that, that margin is going to be very difficult to overcome. So, it seems really desperate that folks yet again, are trying to find ways to silence and really acknowledged the power, that not only the Black community has, but communities of color all across the country and how they really showed up.
David Ahrens: The speaker, and that’s Vos, wants to establish a committee with subpoena power. I’ve worked in politics here for almost 40 years. I’ve never heard of a legislative committee that has subpoena power. The purpose of the committee as Angela mentioned, is to do this so-called investigation of fraud in the Milwaukee area. So it will be a real … the purpose of it is to put on a show and to again, intimidate both the population as a whole and potentially the leadership.
This is a leader who has gone to court to prevent the most common sense measures to stem the COVID virus, where we’re the third worst in the country. Every day we have another record amount. So he’s doing absolutely nothing on the skyrocketing death and hospitalization rate but wants to spend all the time on this nonsensical investigation. Hopefully he’ll come under enough flack to stop it, but he’s talking to his base.
Marc Steiner: So, let’s take a step back in history a moment here, because I think when I look at Wisconsin, as I said in the beginning of this program today, that it really is in many ways, emblematic of the battle in this country for who we are as Americans. I’ve been doing a lot of readings, as I said about Karl Rove and his red map strategy, that he started in 2010 with millions of millions of dollars of corporate money behind him actually, and other money as well. One of his target states was your state, Wisconsin. So in that, he was able to, in his strategic moves to create, a Republican-held legislature that has gerrymandered districts to ensure Republican power and right wing power, has engaged in voter suppression, especially in Black and Indigenous communities in Wisconsin. In that sense, it really says to me, this is the battleground for the future, of this country, of Wisconsin, for our children and grandchildren, for what’s going to happen. So talk a bit about that.
I mean, about how you have both fought to address that, where do you think it is now and what it says about our entire body politic in this country? Angela, you want to jump in first?
Angela Lang: Yeah. The issue of gerrymandering is actually something that we started working on very early in our inception. So BLOC has been around since November of 2017, so we’re just coming up on our three-year anniversary. A couple of months in, we actually got connected to the National Democratic Redistricting Committee that’s led by former Attorney General Eric Holder. We’ve become very close, we have deep partnerships with them and we know the impact of it. We know it’s also an issue that our community doesn’t know a lot about. We feel the effects every day.
So we’ve actually done a lot of popular education style type of trainings, to have those conversations. Because a lot of times people may not know the history of gerrymandering and how it’s impacting them, but yet we’re seeing the effects every day. I think we see that play out in the state of Wisconsin as well. So when people demand legalization of marijuana, for example, or decriminalization of marijuana, you’ll see overwhelming support for it, but the policies don’t line up and that’s because, our leaders, they don’t feel that they have to bend to the will of the people. They don’t need to bend to their constituents because the maps are so heavily gerrymandered. They really get to act and make policies without impunity, which I think is really, really dangerous for a healthy democracy.
David Ahrens: Yeah. In this last election cycle, once again, there was somewhere between a 10% and 15% vote margin between what the vote was for democratic candidates for the legislature, and then the percentage that are actually elected. So we had about a 48% vote for Democrats, and we have 33% representation in the legislature. As Angela mentioned, you could go down a list of all the most important legislative initiatives. I think the key one for us is Medicaid expansion. Wisconsin is one of the 10 states in the country that have not gone through a Medicaid expansion. 70% of the population supports it, it never has even gotten a vote in the legislature.
So, it’s a legislature that’s really out of whack with the population, because getting back again to COVID, the vast majority of people support people wearing masks, that’s … the legislature opposes. They support limiting public gatherings, legislature opposes it, and has gone to court to stop it. So it’s unfortunately because of the makeup, one gerrymander map perpetuates another gerrymander map. So now again, we have a legislature that is overwhelmingly Republican, that we’ll be creating the maps for the next decade.
Marc Steiner: Exactly and that leads me to the next question, which I’ve been thinking about a lot when it comes to Wisconsin, what it says to the rest of the country. I mean, both of you in different parts of Wisconsin are progressive leaders and thinkers in that state and in the work that you’ve done. So when you look at the vote, and I know in the last time I voted, I think 52%, if I have it right, of the statewide vote, went for Democrats and again, fewer seats in the legislature and other [inaudible 00:09:11] take place. I talked a bit about Karl Rove and his part in that. So what is a political strategy to fight for a more inclusive society? To deal with issues of racism, to deal with everything in voting rights and a more equitable economy? So what do you all talk about together when it comes to strategically how to address this, given the forces you’re up against?
Angela Lang: I think for me, what’s important is continue doing what we have been doing. Something that’s been a focal point for BLOC is making sure that we are a year-round organization. We’re already strategizing for next year. We’re talking about different programs that we want to launch. We’re already thinking about the midterms, already had a candidate just a few minutes ago who announced that they were running is calling. So there’s really not a lot of downtime. We also have elections in the spring. So what’s really important for us is to make sure that we’re doing that education in between election cycles.
We’re really excited for when the spring elections are over to continue to dig in. We’re having conversations with folks. We’re still educating our team and our folks, because I think that’s how you build power. You build power when people start to understand their place in it, and they understand the power that they have as well and the agency that they have, in breaking down some of these really tough, hard to follow policies. We got a lot of questions in April, after our disastrous election that we talked about earlier, about how was this allowed to happen?
So we actually took all of those things that we were seeing, how is this allowed to happen? How was that allowed to happen? We took a step back and we said, “Research gerrymandering, watch this movie. Watch the film All In that just came out with Stacey Abrams that’s talking about voter suppression.” Being able to have some of those conversations, training our team internally and then being able to spread that information as well, so people start to pay attention a little bit more and instead of saying, “Hey, how was that allowed to happen?” Hopefully we’re able to make some interventions and so that doesn’t happen again.
David Ahrens: Right, yeah. Just to second what Angela’s saying, when we talk about spring elections here, we’re talking about local elections. So that becomes a major strategy, is to make sure that in local communities where we can consolidate a base and win power, that we’re actually doing that. So I think in a lot of local communities, that’s taken place. Again, going back to the gerrymander piece, every community where that has been put up for a popular vote at a countywide referendum, it’s been approved, which is to have an impartial, nonpartisan commission. So we’re working at the local level and then where possible at the state level, as you know, in last spring, it was quite an upset where a liberal candidate took out an incumbent supreme court member.
So we hope to replicate that in another year or so, and to take out another Republican supreme court justice. So there are avenues to work. the other part is, is to make sure that we have a Democratic governor, because if we have another Scott Walker with this legislature, then we’re in deep trouble.
Marc Steiner: So let’s talk a bit about another state that Wisconsin finds itself in that really speaks to the nation. I mean, there were issues raised amendment, I remember at the beginning of this election, about the safety of the Black vote in Milwaukee. Now there are all kinds of fraud things that Vos and others are pushing that happened in Milwaukee.
David Ahrens: Yeah, photo ID. We were one of the first.
Marc Steiner: Exactly. This is an interesting a piece I read that for the third year in a row, Milwaukee and Racine, where it said they were the worst cities for African Americans in the country. Number one, and number two, by this 24/7 Wall Street [inaudible 00:13:19] in Delaware. So let’s talk about this, the question of race and racism inside of Wisconsin and why it’s so virulent and what that history is and what also that says about how that fits into this larger political mix. Angela, you can jump off and lead this again, then David jump in.
Angela Lang: Yeah, I think what’s really led to it is just all of these years, and we outlined it earlier, in the fact that the Republicans are able to have a decade long plan and act on it. It starts with gerrymandering and then they’re able to chip away at these policies. It starts by making sure that they are in power and then it continues by weaponizing a global pandemic as a means of voter suppression for the April election. We see these things constantly happen and I think what we noticed a lot of times, that I think a lot of us feel, is that it feels like Milwaukee against the rest of the state. So every time people say, “Oh, well, Milwaukee,” it’s usually dog whistle all of the time. If people say, “Oh, well, Milwaukeeans should just do this.” They’re really talking about Black and Brown voters and that’s very clear.
That’s why we see people try to chip away at the power that Milwaukee has. We’re the largest economic engine in the state, but yet people don’t treat us as if we are. I think that’s where a lot of the racism comes in. We see racist police departments. We see some of our checks and balances in Milwaukee. We have a fire and police commission that has been embroiled in controversy and drama and in corruption the last couple of years now at this point. So, I think people try to prey on that and we see that Wisconsin is the worst place to raise a Black child. We are the worst place for segregation. You mentioned the history of Milwaukee and Racine. We know what happened with the attempted murder of Jacob Blake.
So we constantly see all of these things, and it really does feel like the tale of two states, you have Milwaukee and you have the rest of the state. When people are providing those narratives that really come out of the legislature, that perpetuates those stereotypes that Milwaukee has nothing but murder, mayhem, and chaos, which is what a legislator referred to it as a few years ago. So we see that often, and I think that doesn’t help when it comes to policies and it really perpetuates this urban and rural divide. But yet, there’s a lot of ways that people are trying to overcome that. We’re trying to get dairy farmers to understand and dairy farmers stand with Black Lives Matter and folks in Milwaukee care about the wellbeing of dairy farmers, but that’s not something that I think is widespread. I think there’s a lot of healing from an urban and rural standpoint and from a race class narrative standpoint, I think there’s a lot of work to be done. I’m looking forward to some of the new infrastructure that has popped up to heal and bring those two communities together too.
Marc Steiner: So David, as somebody who I have known for a while, and know you’re also a student of political history. I mean, talk to me about what Angela was just saying, in terms of where you think the story goes from here and what those roots are, I mean, this is, you know-
David Ahrens: Yeah, I think one of the significant roots in Milwaukee is, and this is the rust belt theme, is the de-industrialization of Milwaukee. 30, 40 years ago, there were significant large industrial unionized factories in Milwaukee that paid a good wage for Black workers and white workers as well, but a large part of the workforce was Black and they’re gone. So really the opportunity to earn a living wage was really, really degraded. After that happened, I mean that took a second hit, which was under Scott Walker when he basically destroyed public employee unionism.
That also, especially in Milwaukee, was a place where Black workers, from people who are parks laborers to skilled teachers and whatever, their wages and benefits and rights as workers were degraded. We also then outlawed union shops. So there’ve been a whole series of really economic catastrophes that then cause political catastrophes.
One of the things that Angela said about the attack of the legislature on Milwaukee, one of the audacious things that the legislature did was to change the term and the pay of Milwaukee County board members. So they decided that county board members should only work half time and should be paid less than half of what they were. They changed the structure of the Milwaukee County board. This was the only county board that they did this to. So it’s really this plantation mentality that we’re going to decide really how this local government operates.
Angela Lang: Yeah and to add on to that, they’ll be tricky too. They’ll say, “Oh, any counties or any cities over this amount of population … ” knowing that the only city or county that fits that description will be Milwaukee. So, to see our county board get their, their pay cut in half, I believe their benefits were slashed, instead of running every four years, they have to run every two years now and it seemed to be of a part-time job, while we handle so many different elements in the county. So we also see that also as a way of deterrence. Who is going to step up and be a county supervisor if you know that the pay is only $25,000 now? So that could also lead to some class issues as well, in that you may have more wealthy people that may not need it for the pay, that may want to fill those seats, versus people that want to be humble public servants and that $50,000 could be a decent pay for them and this could be a full-time job.
So we can actually see the composition start to change as well. I think groups like the Working Families Party and others have been doing the best they could to keep that line and to hold that line ever since Act 14.
Marc Steiner: So let me conclude with this, this is how I began in a way, which is I spent all this time reading about what’s going on in Wisconsin, of course, around the country as well. What does Wisconsin, activists like the both of you, have to say to America about what we face and the struggle we face for the future? Because I mean, what’s happened Wisconsin over the last 50 years has turned on its head what maybe people think places like Wisconsin and Minnesota were supposed to be all about, at least for white folks. So talk a bit about what would you have to say to America about what happened in Wisconsin and what it says about the fight for the future of this country? Oh, I’m sorry, let me just … Angela, go ahead.
Angela Lang: I think for us, is that what I would say is that the work continues. We’ve said this long before the election, that white supremacy and transphobia and misogyny and all of that doesn’t mysteriously go away because there is a new president elect at this point, and that our work needs to continue. I think more broadly, I think Wisconsin is incredibly fascinating. I think it can be a microcosm of how we can get the work right, how we can come together as working folks, despite a racial background and to overcome that. I think there’s a long history of trying to divide old by race when we can actually build a multi-racial, working class party in group of folks, in a voting block.
We know that our brothers and sisters that are dairy farmers are also struggling the same way that we are in the city of Milwaukee and how are we able to come together over a common message about being able to look out for each other, to support each other, and really go against some of the status quo. So, I think we know that working class voters and specifically Black and Brown and Indigenous voters really were the ones to either hold the line, or to bring the state over the edge in so many different places. We see the amazing work from the New Georgia Project in Georgia. We’re talking about Georgia new ways, in Texas in new ways and I think a big takeaway, I think from this election, is that Black, Brown and Indigenous voters are the future of this country and there’s a lot of organizing opportunities as well with working class folks.
Marc Steiner: And so David, as we conclude as well, I mean, I was thinking about what Angela was saying and all this in the terms of, as I mentioned several times in the course of our conversation, Karl Rove and highly organized the right wing is and what they’ve been able to do, and how that plays into the struggle of the future.
David Ahrens: Yeah, yeah. I think we being progressives are about a decade behind, at least Republicans, in terms of certain levels of organization, and the divide in Wisconsin, as you say, is just another replica of the divide in the country. I mean, you look at our two US senators, Tammy Baldwin, very liberal, and Ron Johnson among the most right wing who, upon the election said half of the United States does not see that Biden is legitimate leader of the country. So he’s coming up in two years and as Angela said, the campaign never ends. So the question is who is going to run against Johnson and then build a coalition against him where we have either a rural, or a urban, or whatever, candidate that is capable of reaching particularly white, non-college educated folks to vote Democratic.
Wisconsin has one of the highest levels of white non-college educated population and I think that’s part of the residual base and reaching out for dairy farmers or any kind of farmers that are completely dependent on Latino labor. I mean, there’s probably not a dairy farm in the state that doesn’t run without Latino people who are actually working on that farm. So, for them to support other parts of the progressive agenda, including immigrant rights, there have been some inroads on that and hope to continue with that. I think some of the lesson to be learned, as Angela said, where Milwaukee is seen as the other. Very early on in the COVID epidemic, Milwaukee was the hardest hit place, much harder than anywhere else. Ron Johnson and others said, “Well, this COVID thing is just a urban problem. It can’t touch us.” Now it’s flipped completely and is in the most rural parts of the state with as least medical service.
So I think people are learning that, hey, we’re all in the same bucket, and there really aren’t any divisions here. We’re all part of the human race and got to work together.
Marc Steiner: Well, I want to thank both of you for the time you’ve taken with Real News today and also for the years of work you both put in to make a difference in our society. Angela, also what you have done to build in these few years in Milwaukee, to build a real power presence, has been very important for the rest of the country to see. So Angela Lang and David Ahrens, thank you both so much for taking your time today and we look forward to having you back again.
David Ahrens: Thanks Marc.
Angela Lang: [inaudible 00:26:06] having me.
Marc Steiner: It’s our pleasure.
David Ahrens: Okay, bye-bye. Bye Angela.
Marc Steiner: Bye-bye. And so for producer, Erica Blount, I’m Marc Steiner of the Real News Network. Thank you all for joining us. Let us know what you think and take care.
Studio: Adam Coley
Post-Production: Sebastian Pituscan
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therealnews--2020-11-13--Thought Trump was through? Cue the coup

Thought Trump was through? Cue the coup

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therealnews--2020-11-12--How Big Tech and the GOP fueled the rise of QAnon

Jaisal is a host , producer , and reporter for TRNN .
With his expertise in education policy and systemic @ @ @ @ @ Baltimore , Maryland .
He mainly grew up in the Baltimore area and studied modern @ @ @ @ @ Maryland , College Park .
Before joining TRNN , he contributed print , radio , @ @ @ @ @ Speech Radio News , Democracy Now !
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Jaisal 's mother has @ @ @ @ @ Public School system for the past 25 years .

Jaisal is currently the Democracy Initiative Manager at the Solutions Journalism Network and is a former TRNN host, producer, and reporter. He mainly grew up in the Baltimore area and studied modern history at the University of Maryland, College Park. Before joining TRNN, he contributed print, radio, and TV reports to Free Speech Radio News, Democracy Now! and The Indypendent. Jaisal's mother has taught in the Baltimore City Public School system for the past 25 years. Follow him on Twitter @jaisalnoor.


therealnews--2020-11-12--How diverse, progressive coalitions can build power in Florida

Marc Steiner : Good to have you all with us here .
We ’ re about to have join us here Rachel Gilmer , who is the Co-director of the Dream Defenders , joining us from Miami , Florida .
Rachel , always good to talk with you , and welcome back to The Real News .
Let ’ s start with what we ’ re seeing right now , just very quickly .
We ’ re seeing dogs walking under my desk , that ’ s what I ’ m seeing .
We ’ re seeing a really tight @ @ @ @ @ @ @ just your sense .
You ’ ve been out in the street , you ’ re part of the organizing team for Dream Defenders .
Talk a bit about what you ’ re seeing , and what your sense is of where this is going .
Rachel Gilmer : Florida is always super-razor thin margins , so I ’ m not going to do any predictions yet .
Waiting for all the votes to come in , but we do know that we ’ ve seen historic turnout : young people , in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and Brown people , and as of last week , more young people had turned out than in all of early voting .
On college campuses where there ’ s polling sites in 2018 , the right was fighting to get college polling sites shut down .
We ended up winning that fight , and then in some of the polling sites on college campuses , we ’ re seeing nearly 100 % turnout .
At University of Central Florida , the largest university in the country , they had 100 % voter @ @ @ @ @ @ @ exciting sign .
I mean , young people , our generation , is the most progressive , the most diverse generation .
We have a really clear vision about the transformation that ’ s needed in this country , and so I ’ m feeling confident and ready to go , and just kind of waiting to see what the results are .
But excited that we ’ re seeing young people engaging in the political process in ways we haven ’ t seen in previous cycles at the same level .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s a lot of possibility , not only for what that means this year , but for the future , in terms of changing the political landscape in this country .
Marc Steiner : We talked earlier , and we talked for a few minutes on the phone .
We were talking about the Puerto Rican vote and the vote of immigrants .
Your work in Dream Defenders , I mean , that ’ s a big piece of what you ’ re doing is bringing this vote to bear and organizing .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ ve done and how you see it unfolding today , and in these last couple of weeks .
Rachel Gilmer : Yeah .
Dream Defenders is part of a seven-organization coalition called Florida for All , that ’ s been working to build the long-term strategy to build independent political power for our communities in Florida .
We ’ ve been under trifecta Republican control for 20 years despite , actually , Republicans being the minority in terms of voter registration .
Democrats are actually registered in higher numbers , yet we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of actual election outcomes because Republicans have figured out how to maintain control over the state , while being minorities , actually .
And so , our organizations are focused on how we expand the electorate , get more and more people engaged in the political process , and really figuring out a long-term strategy to flip the state .
Part of that is engaging new populations .
The immigrant population in Florida is incredibly diverse .
Right here in Miami , we have Haitians , Cubans , Venezuelans , Puerto Ricans ; @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , do not hold the same politics .
So , we ’ re really focused on how do we engage communities , bring more people in , and really build a political bloc that ’ s able to contend for power in the state .
We ’ re seeing that the right is very threatened by that .
In 2018 , when our governor won … a Republican beat Andrew Gillum by 20,000 votes .
That ’ s literally , I always say this , literally smaller than a Beyonce concert .
That @ @ @ @ @ @ @ immediately … That same election cycle , we passed Amendment 4 , so what did the Republican legislature do ?
They immediately figured out how to restrict implementation of Amendment 4 , which would have brought 1.4 million people into the electorate .
So , there are just huge possibilities to be engaging our communities , and we ’ re seeing the Republicans respond by trying to figure out further disenfranchisement strategies , further strategies to figure out how they can maintain control in the wake of growing communities that are becoming more @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : I ’ m curious what you think the strategy is going forward .
I mean , we don ’ t know , yet .
The race looks really tight in Florida , from what I ’ ve been watching in different sites before we started talking .
I mean , 50 % the last time I looked , or 50 points or something for Trump , and 49-something for Biden at the moment .
I don ’ t know if Dade County has come in , or Orange County around Orlando , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for Biden .
You can talk a bit about that .
But I ’ m wondering , in that context , where you see that struggle going in Florida after this election .
What you ’ ve just described is a real kind of battleground between communities of color , and other communities , trying to fight for their rights to be heard and actually govern themselves .
So , where do you see this going ?
Rachel Gilmer : This is a long-term strategy .
I think what ’ s giving me @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , when we saw the uprising , the largest uprising in U.S. history quite possibly , we saw young people taking to the streets in very rural parts of Florida where we hadn ’ t seen protests like the protests we were seeing , I think , in recent history at all .
So , that gives me a lot of hope , the fact that young people are taking to the streets in even parts of Florida where our organizations don ’ t have strongholds .
They ’ re like the red @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it ’ s exciting to see that there ’ s organizing potential and that young people … I was politicized around Occupy .
That was 10 years ago , and when I was politicized , I didn ’ t believe in elections .
I thought that , and I still think , that both parties … the electoral process is the problem .
But what ’ s exciting is , I think , we ’ re seeing young people refine their political analysis and realizing that they have to engage in elections , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be in the streets .
We need to be in the streets , but that we actually have to figure out how to translate that into political power , and get people in positions of power who can actually move the agenda that we ’ re demanding in the streets .
This is a long-term strategy , and I think eventually I would love to figure out how to get young people in our base to actually run for office .
40 % of young people , I think , are actually registered @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sign that they ’ re actually disillusioned by both parties .
So , I think there ’ s actually huge potential to really build the voting bloc around a real , radical , transformative vision for the future of the country that neither party is actually speaking to right now .
And young people are equally disillusioned by just the political establishment as a whole .
Marc Steiner : That ’ s really fascinating , because it seems like … One thing I ’ m thinking a lot about is that people talk @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I think we ’ re seeing a war within the states , and especially in places like Florida , and Georgia , and other cities in the South ; and some out west where there ’ s a real battle going on .
Not generational , but around race and class , that ’ s really shifting .
So , when you look in places like Orange County , and Orlando , and Dade County , which is where , if the Democrats pull this out , it would be because of those @ @ @ @ @ @ @ your work ?
Where do you think things are ?
Rachel Gilmer : Like I said , I ’ m waiting for every vote to come in .
But some exciting things are that Pinellas County , which is on the west coast of Florida in the Tampa/ St. Pete area , that is actually looking like it ’ s going to go blue , which is huge .
It went towards Trump in 2016 .
Duval County , where Jacksonville is , I believe also went for Trump in 2016 , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ going to go blue .
So , that ’ s very exciting , and then , yeah .
Of course , Miami is an incredibly important [ inaudible 00:08:02 ] and that the right has really been trying to chip away : particularly at Latino voters .
And doing all sorts of red-baiting , and these racist dog whistles , to try to divide communities and win Latino voters to their side .
During the coronavirus over the last few months , when Florida has had some of the worst outcomes in the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in Miami-Dade was trying to pass paid sick leave , the right shut it down by just calling it socialism .
So , I think we really have to figure out a deep organizing strategy to get people to understand our economic agenda .
Really , the right is very much trying to get people to vote against their own interests , to get people in poverty to not vote for things that would alleviate poverty by creating divisions between Black and Latino voters , using anti-Black myths , by calling things socialism @ @ @ @ @ @ @ deep , deep organizing that actually helps build support for an economic agenda and helps clarify what it is our movement is about , and bring more and more people into it .
Marc Steiner : I ’ m very curious to explore , while we have time , the questions raised about deep organizing and what that means post-election .
We don ’ t know how this election is going to turn out .
I think America is on a real precipice , and it is your generation and others who are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ So , how do you see that playing out after this election ?
What do you have to do so that when you describe what just happened in Miami and Dade County , where the right was able to stop that effort , how could you change that ?
What [ inaudible 00:09:49 ] when you talk about it , where it failed , what is your organizing , what ’ s the strategy that would ensure that that can ’ t happen again ?
Rachel Gilmer : Yeah .
I think Florida @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I said .
We ’ ve been under trifecta of Republican control for 20 years , and that ’ s not a coincidence .
That ’ s because the right has invested deeply in Florida .
The Koch brothers put more money into Florida than any other state in the country .
We have one of the highest-funded Republican parties .
And so , I think it is that slow bread-and-butter work of figuring out how we build up infrastructure and how we invest in like going door to door , and just @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people in my generation have , I think , got in … Obviously , social media has been something that ’ s been … really has pushed our movements forward , but I think it ’ s also allowed us to kind of skip some of the bread and butter organizing that you just can ’ t skip , like building a base to actually bring people over to our movement .
So I think , honestly , like knocking on doors , building support for our political agenda through conversations , figuring @ @ @ @ @ @ @ local level .
It ’ s really exciting that here in Miami , we actually … Our primary for Miami-Dade mayor , it went to a run-off between the most conservative person on the ballot and the most progressive person on the ballot .
And if the most progressive candidate wins , then Daniella Levine Cava … I mean , there ’ s huge openings on a local level to try to be able to push past , to try to organize and make some real reform and some real change here .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ building power , and then working to push politicians .
And that means getting folks active after the election .
I think so many people are socialized like , “ Oh , November 3rd happens and then I ’ m done.
” We actually need to socialize people to be like , November 3rd and the work gets started .
Marc Steiner : I ’ m curious , because you ’ re in Miami .
I ’ m curious to see how you see the election happenings .
I do know what you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that the Koch brothers and Karl Rove and his REDMAP organization have gotten millions and millions and millions of corporate dollars to ensure that the right wing can control politics in [ inaudible 00:12:10 ] states like Florida , like Indiana , like Michigan , Wisconsin .
So , what ’ s happening with that race in Miami , which I have not been following , I will admit .
But I ’ d like to hear your analysis on what ’ s going on , and how that talks about a larger @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the right-wing money .
Rachel Gilmer : I think people are fed up , and we ’ re in a very polarized , political environment .
We ’ re seeing lots of young people , as I said earlier , out in the streets .
I think we , as organizations , are trying to figure out how to pivot that towards political power .
And I think we ’ re seeing elected candidates who I think represent our movement in ways we haven ’ t seen before .
Daniella Levine Cava comes @ @ @ @ @ @ @ County Commission seat , sat on the County Commission , is now running for mayor .
So , I think it ’ s a sign of actually our movements grabbing hold of the political system , and actually having candidates who represent our interests on the ballot .
I think we ’ re in a polarized political environment , so it ’ s really about … Yeah , but there ’ s like lots of people who are … I think the polarization is also representative of people being fed up on both @ @ @ @ @ @ @ … just who can organize people in our direction ?
It ’ s a battle against the polarization in many ways .
Marc Steiner : When you see , since we don ’ t know the results we have , but when you see the organizations that you ’ re in a coalition with , that kind of span the spectrum of Black organizations and various Latino organizations and other groups , how do you see that coalition holding together ?
And is there a coalition-building that can actually become a political force @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the work you are all doing on the ground ?
Rachel Gilmer : That ’ s exactly what we are trying to do .
Amendment 4 was an example of this .
Florida Rights Coalition , led by formerly incarcerated people , has been pushing for this for 10 years .
A coalition of organizations came behind Amendment 4 , collected a million petition signatures , got it on the ballot , and then it won .
So , I think more and more ballot initiatives .
And really , I think , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
One of the amendments on the ballot this cycle is to actually make it so that citizen ballot initiatives have to be passed twice .
So , if that existed now , it would mean we would have had to have passed Amendment 4 in 2018 , and then do all the work to pass it in 2020 in order for it to become law .
So , I think our organizations are figuring out both a defensive strategy , we have to figure out how to defend against the right continuously @ @ @ @ @ @ @ how to maintain minority control while figuring out how to build political tentacles across the state to bring more and more people in , and really build an offensive strategy around our vision .
Marc Steiner : I think that one of the difficult things here , in any political community organizing at the moment , is thinking through how you … is figuring out a strategy that you battle the power of the right .
Because clearly , in places like Florida , they have gained control .
You just said they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ both parts of the legislature .
It ’ s a real fight , but it seems to me that the numbers are on your side , not their side .
Rachel Gilmer : Yeah , right .
I think the other dynamic we ’ re up against in Florida is the Biden campaign didn ’ t really , and the Democratic Party didn ’ t really , have a ground game in Florida .
Much of that was left up to our organization , which I think is just another dynamic that makes @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
I think part of the reason our organizations came together to form this coalition is , Florida is such an important state nationally , and so we see millions of dollars pour into this state on the presidential election cycles and then immediately dry up .
So , it ’ s very hard for … and then much of that money ends up going to national groups that parachute in , and don ’ t have a long-term investment in figuring out … in our communities .
They don ’ t have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be building the type of political power necessary to be able to flip these elections long-term .
So , part of the reason our organizations came together was to actually combat this dynamic , because we found that we were so often in competition with one another , sort of moving from cycle to cycle , moving from campaign to campaign , as opposed to thinking long-term : how 10 years out do we get a people ’ s governor elected .
What is the 10-year strategy to do this ?
This is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 30 , 40 year strategy .
So , a lot of what we ’ re really thinking about is how do we come together ?
We need a really robust movement ecosystem .
What are the type of capacities we need to build ?
The right has a policy machine , and donors networks , and grassroots organizations .
Turning Point USA is literally all over college campuses across the state .
They have policy organizations , they have candidate recruitment organizations .
And so , our organizations are really coming together to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ infrastructure that ’ s needed to actually move a long-term strategy .
This isn ’ t just election cycle from election cycle .
This is a long-term strategy to build the type of political power needed to actually be able to transform the state .
And that ’ s like a 10 , 20 , 30-year project .
Marc Steiner : Despite Donald Trump sitting where he sits and the power of the right growing , you don ’ t sound pessimistic , Rachel , about the power that you represent and of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
When I think about … and you ’ re right .
They did have a 30 , 40-year struggle to kind of take over .
As I said to somebody today , they learned from Saul Alinsky , and they learned from Fannie Lou Hamer in Mississippi , and they learned from us how to organize .
And then they did it , right ?
So , we have to kind of have to relearn that , and reorganize that to build a power so we actually do have kind of a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : I ’ m feeling confident in the fact that our organizations have talked to millions of voters , that we just had a [ inaudible 00:18:08 ] movement moment in which we saw millions of people take to the streets all across the country .
And I ’ m feeling confident that that ’ s going to translate into political power and results tonight .
So , thank you again for having me .
Marc Steiner : No , thank you .
You represent what the future is , in terms of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ making things change .
I deeply appreciate the work you do , the stuff you ’ ve been writing , your organizing with the Defenders .
You ’ re really doing an amazing piece of work , and we really do appreciate it .
I know you ’ ve got to run , but I appreciate the time you ’ ve taken and I look forward to many more conversations .
And really , finally , what you all do in Florida , because I mean this is just the beginning .
No @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Electoral College in Florida , this is literally the beginning of your struggle .
Rachel Gilmer : Yes , most definitely .
Well , to check out more about our coalition , you can go to floridaforall.vote and learn more about the effort that is happening now .
It [ inaudible 00:19:04 ] with Dream Defenders , again , it ’ s a group of organizations coming together and really trying to build a long-term plan to flip Florida .
And then you can go to dreamdefenders.org and learn more about the Dream @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , it ’ s always great to talk with you .
Really good to see you , and maybe when COVID is over , we ’ ll see you in Florida .
Rachel Gilmer : Thank you all so much .
Thank you .
Marc Steiner : Thank you .
Thank you .
Marc Steiner : ‘ Bye-bye .
We ’ ve been talking to Rachel Gilmer , who joined us from Florida .
She had to go .
She ’ s working the polls and organizing in Florida , and she had @ @ @ @ @ @ @ hit our next segment , which is coming up shortly , I think that maybe .

Transcript:
Marc Steiner: Good to have you all with us here. We’re about to have join us here Rachel Gilmer, who is the Co-director of the Dream Defenders, joining us from Miami, Florida. Rachel, always good to talk with you, and welcome back to The Real News.
Let’s start with what we’re seeing right now, just very quickly. We’re seeing dogs walking under my desk, that’s what I’m seeing. We’re seeing a really tight race, and I’m … just your sense. You’ve been out in the street, you’re part of the organizing team for Dream Defenders. Talk a bit about what you’re seeing, and what your sense is of where this is going.
Rachel Gilmer: Florida is always super-razor thin margins, so I’m not going to do any predictions yet. Waiting for all the votes to come in, but we do know that we’ve seen historic turnout: young people, in particular. Dream Defenders organizes young Black and Brown people, and as of last week, more young people had turned out than in all of early voting. On college campuses where there’s polling sites in 2018, the right was fighting to get college polling sites shut down. We ended up winning that fight, and then in some of the polling sites on college campuses, we’re seeing nearly 100% turnout. At University of Central Florida, the largest university in the country, they had 100% voter turnout.
That’s a really exciting sign. I mean, young people, our generation, is the most progressive, the most diverse generation. We have a really clear vision about the transformation that’s needed in this country, and so I’m feeling confident and ready to go, and just kind of waiting to see what the results are.
But excited that we’re seeing young people engaging in the political process in ways we haven’t seen in previous cycles at the same level. And so, I just think there’s a lot of possibility, not only for what that means this year, but for the future, in terms of changing the political landscape in this country.
Marc Steiner: We talked earlier, and we talked for a few minutes on the phone. We were talking about the Puerto Rican vote and the vote of immigrants. Your work in Dream Defenders, I mean, that’s a big piece of what you’re doing is bringing this vote to bear and organizing. Talk a bit about that work you’ve done and how you see it unfolding today, and in these last couple of weeks.
Rachel Gilmer: Yeah. Dream Defenders is part of a seven-organization coalition called Florida for All, that’s been working to build the long-term strategy to build independent political power for our communities in Florida. We’ve been under trifecta Republican control for 20 years despite, actually, Republicans being the minority in terms of voter registration. Democrats are actually registered in higher numbers, yet we don’t see that in terms of actual election outcomes because Republicans have figured out how to maintain control over the state, while being minorities, actually.
And so, our organizations are focused on how we expand the electorate, get more and more people engaged in the political process, and really figuring out a long-term strategy to flip the state. Part of that is engaging new populations. The immigrant population in Florida is incredibly diverse. Right here in Miami, we have Haitians, Cubans, Venezuelans, Puerto Ricans; and these communities are all incredibly diverse, do not hold the same politics. So, we’re really focused on how do we engage communities, bring more people in, and really build a political bloc that’s able to contend for power in the state.
We’re seeing that the right is very threatened by that. In 2018, when our governor won … a Republican beat Andrew Gillum by 20,000 votes. That’s literally, I always say this, literally smaller than a Beyonce concert. That is like .3 percentage points. He immediately … That same election cycle, we passed Amendment 4, so what did the Republican legislature do? They immediately figured out how to restrict implementation of Amendment 4, which would have brought 1.4 million people into the electorate.
So, there are just huge possibilities to be engaging our communities, and we’re seeing the Republicans respond by trying to figure out further disenfranchisement strategies, further strategies to figure out how they can maintain control in the wake of growing communities that are becoming more and more politically active.
Marc Steiner: I’m curious what you think the strategy is going forward. I mean, we don’t know, yet. The race looks really tight in Florida, from what I’ve been watching in different sites before we started talking. I mean, 50% the last time I looked, or 50 points or something for Trump, and 49-something for Biden at the moment. I don’t know if Dade County has come in, or Orange County around Orlando, which are sites that would probably go for Biden. You can talk a bit about that.
But I’m wondering, in that context, where you see that struggle going in Florida after this election. What you’ve just described is a real kind of battleground between communities of color, and other communities, trying to fight for their rights to be heard and actually govern themselves. So, where do you see this going?
Rachel Gilmer: This is a long-term strategy. I think what’s giving me a lot of hope is this year, when we saw the uprising, the largest uprising in U.S. history quite possibly, we saw young people taking to the streets in very rural parts of Florida where we hadn’t seen protests like the protests we were seeing, I think, in recent history at all. So, that gives me a lot of hope, the fact that young people are taking to the streets in even parts of Florida where our organizations don’t have strongholds. They’re like the red parts of the state.
So, it’s exciting to see that there’s organizing potential and that young people … I was politicized around Occupy. That was 10 years ago, and when I was politicized, I didn’t believe in elections. I thought that, and I still think, that both parties … the electoral process is the problem. But what’s exciting is, I think, we’re seeing young people refine their political analysis and realizing that they have to engage in elections, that there’s an opportunity to be in the streets. We need to be in the streets, but that we actually have to figure out how to translate that into political power, and get people in positions of power who can actually move the agenda that we’re demanding in the streets.
This is a long-term strategy, and I think eventually I would love to figure out how to get young people in our base to actually run for office. 40% of young people, I think, are actually registered as non-party affiliates, which is a sign that they’re actually disillusioned by both parties. So, I think there’s actually huge potential to really build the voting bloc around a real, radical, transformative vision for the future of the country that neither party is actually speaking to right now. And young people are equally disillusioned by just the political establishment as a whole.
Marc Steiner: That’s really fascinating, because it seems like … One thing I’m thinking a lot about is that people talk about a war between the states. I think we’re seeing a war within the states, and especially in places like Florida, and Georgia, and other cities in the South; and some out west where there’s a real battle going on. Not generational, but around race and class, that’s really shifting. So, when you look in places like Orange County, and Orlando, and Dade County, which is where, if the Democrats pull this out, it would be because of those counties. What do you see in your work? Where do you think things are?
Rachel Gilmer: Like I said, I’m waiting for every vote to come in. But some exciting things are that Pinellas County, which is on the west coast of Florida in the Tampa/ St. Pete area, that is actually looking like it’s going to go blue, which is huge. It went towards Trump in 2016. Duval County, where Jacksonville is, I believe also went for Trump in 2016, and is now looking like it’s going to go blue.
So, that’s very exciting, and then, yeah. Of course, Miami is an incredibly important [inaudible 00:08:02] and that the right has really been trying to chip away: particularly at Latino voters. And doing all sorts of red-baiting, and these racist dog whistles, to try to divide communities and win Latino voters to their side. During the coronavirus over the last few months, when Florida has had some of the worst outcomes in the country, when our County Commission here in Miami-Dade was trying to pass paid sick leave, the right shut it down by just calling it socialism.
So, I think we really have to figure out a deep organizing strategy to get people to understand our economic agenda. Really, the right is very much trying to get people to vote against their own interests, to get people in poverty to not vote for things that would alleviate poverty by creating divisions between Black and Latino voters, using anti-Black myths, by calling things socialism. The only solution to that is deep, deep organizing that actually helps build support for an economic agenda and helps clarify what it is our movement is about, and bring more and more people into it.
Marc Steiner: I’m very curious to explore, while we have time, the questions raised about deep organizing and what that means post-election. We don’t know how this election is going to turn out. I think America is on a real precipice, and it is your generation and others who are the leaders and doing the organizing.
So, how do you see that playing out after this election? What do you have to do so that when you describe what just happened in Miami and Dade County, where the right was able to stop that effort, how could you change that? What [inaudible 00:09:49] when you talk about it, where it failed, what is your organizing, what’s the strategy that would ensure that that can’t happen again?
Rachel Gilmer: Yeah. I think Florida is a really challenging place, like I said. We’ve been under trifecta of Republican control for 20 years, and that’s not a coincidence. That’s because the right has invested deeply in Florida. The Koch brothers put more money into Florida than any other state in the country. We have one of the highest-funded Republican parties. And so, I think it is that slow bread-and-butter work of figuring out how we build up infrastructure and how we invest in like going door to door, and just talking to people.
I think many people in my generation have, I think, got in … Obviously, social media has been something that’s been … really has pushed our movements forward, but I think it’s also allowed us to kind of skip some of the bread and butter organizing that you just can’t skip, like building a base to actually bring people over to our movement. So I think, honestly, like knocking on doors, building support for our political agenda through conversations, figuring out [fights 00:11:05] on a local level.
It’s really exciting that here in Miami, we actually … Our primary for Miami-Dade mayor, it went to a run-off between the most conservative person on the ballot and the most progressive person on the ballot. And if the most progressive candidate wins, then Daniella Levine Cava … I mean, there’s huge openings on a local level to try to be able to push past, to try to organize and make some real reform and some real change here.
That starts with building a base and building power, and then working to push politicians. And that means getting folks active after the election. I think so many people are socialized like, “Oh, November 3rd happens and then I’m done.” We actually need to socialize people to be like, November 3rd and the work gets started.
Marc Steiner: I’m curious, because you’re in Miami. I’m curious to see how you see the election happenings. I do know what you said earlier about the Koch brothers, that the Koch brothers and Karl Rove and his REDMAP organization have gotten millions and millions and millions of corporate dollars to ensure that the right wing can control politics in [inaudible 00:12:10] states like Florida, like Indiana, like Michigan, Wisconsin. So, what’s happening with that race in Miami, which I have not been following, I will admit. But I’d like to hear your analysis on what’s going on, and how that talks about a larger picture maybe in the battle against all the right-wing money.
Rachel Gilmer: I think people are fed up, and we’re in a very polarized, political environment. We’re seeing lots of young people, as I said earlier, out in the streets. I think we, as organizations, are trying to figure out how to pivot that towards political power. And I think we’re seeing elected candidates who I think represent our movement in ways we haven’t seen before.
Daniella Levine Cava comes from progressive organizations, ran for a County Commission seat, sat on the County Commission, is now running for mayor. So, I think it’s a sign of actually our movements grabbing hold of the political system, and actually having candidates who represent our interests on the ballot.
I think we’re in a polarized political environment, so it’s really about … Yeah, but there’s like lots of people who are … I think the polarization is also representative of people being fed up on both sides, and there’s like … just who can organize people in our direction? It’s a battle against the polarization in many ways.
Marc Steiner: When you see, since we don’t know the results we have, but when you see the organizations that you’re in a coalition with, that kind of span the spectrum of Black organizations and various Latino organizations and other groups, how do you see that coalition holding together? And is there a coalition-building that can actually become a political force, do you think, out of the work you are all doing on the ground?
Rachel Gilmer: That’s exactly what we are trying to do. Amendment 4 was an example of this. Florida Rights Coalition, led by formerly incarcerated people, has been pushing for this for 10 years. A coalition of organizations came behind Amendment 4, collected a million petition signatures, got it on the ballot, and then it won. So, I think more and more ballot initiatives.
And really, I think, we’re seeing the right respond. One of the amendments on the ballot this cycle is to actually make it so that citizen ballot initiatives have to be passed twice. So, if that existed now, it would mean we would have had to have passed Amendment 4 in 2018, and then do all the work to pass it in 2020 in order for it to become law.
So, I think our organizations are figuring out both a defensive strategy, we have to figure out how to defend against the right continuously trying to attack; and figure out how to maintain minority control while figuring out how to build political tentacles across the state to bring more and more people in, and really build an offensive strategy around our vision.
Marc Steiner: I think that one of the difficult things here, in any political community organizing at the moment, is thinking through how you … is figuring out a strategy that you battle the power of the right. Because clearly, in places like Florida, they have gained control. You just said they control the Governor’s Mansion, both parts of the legislature. It’s a real fight, but it seems to me that the numbers are on your side, not their side.
Rachel Gilmer: Yeah, right. I think the other dynamic we’re up against in Florida is the Biden campaign didn’t really, and the Democratic Party didn’t really, have a ground game in Florida. Much of that was left up to our organization, which I think is just another dynamic that makes it hard for us to win elections. I think part of the reason our organizations came together to form this coalition is, Florida is such an important state nationally, and so we see millions of dollars pour into this state on the presidential election cycles and then immediately dry up.
So, it’s very hard for … and then much of that money ends up going to national groups that parachute in, and don’t have a long-term investment in figuring out … in our communities. They don’t have long-term relationships in our communities to really be building the type of political power necessary to be able to flip these elections long-term. So, part of the reason our organizations came together was to actually combat this dynamic, because we found that we were so often in competition with one another, sort of moving from cycle to cycle, moving from campaign to campaign, as opposed to thinking long-term: how 10 years out do we get a people’s governor elected. What is the 10-year strategy to do this?
This is slow work. The right had a 30, 40 year strategy. So, a lot of what we’re really thinking about is how do we come together? We need a really robust movement ecosystem. What are the type of capacities we need to build? The right has a policy machine, and donors networks, and grassroots organizations.
Turning Point USA is literally all over college campuses across the state. They have policy organizations, they have candidate recruitment organizations. And so, our organizations are really coming together to think about what is that type of infrastructure that’s needed to actually move a long-term strategy. This isn’t just election cycle from election cycle. This is a long-term strategy to build the type of political power needed to actually be able to transform the state. And that’s like a 10, 20, 30-year project.
Marc Steiner: Despite Donald Trump sitting where he sits and the power of the right growing, you don’t sound pessimistic, Rachel, about the power that you represent and of the people you’re organizing with. When I think about … and you’re right. They did have a 30, 40-year struggle to kind of take over. As I said to somebody today, they learned from Saul Alinsky, and they learned from Fannie Lou Hamer in Mississippi, and they learned from us how to organize. And then they did it, right? So, we have to kind of have to relearn that, and reorganize that to build a power so we actually do have kind of a people’s power.
Rachel Gilmer: I’m feeling confident in the fact that our organizations have talked to millions of voters, that we just had a [inaudible 00:18:08] movement moment in which we saw millions of people take to the streets all across the country. And I’m feeling confident that that’s going to translate into political power and results tonight. So, thank you again for having me.
Marc Steiner: No, thank you. You represent what the future is, in terms of building a movement in this country and making things change. I deeply appreciate the work you do, the stuff you’ve been writing, your organizing with the Defenders. You’re really doing an amazing piece of work, and we really do appreciate it.
I know you’ve got to run, but I appreciate the time you’ve taken and I look forward to many more conversations. And really, finally, what you all do in Florida, because I mean this is just the beginning. No matter what the hell happens with the Electoral College in Florida, this is literally the beginning of your struggle.
Rachel Gilmer: Yes, most definitely. Well, to check out more about our coalition, you can go to floridaforall.vote and learn more about the effort that is happening now. It [inaudible 00:19:04] with Dream Defenders, again, it’s a group of organizations coming together and really trying to build a long-term plan to flip Florida. And then you can go to dreamdefenders.org and learn more about the Dream Defenders.
Marc Steiner: Rachel Gilmer, it’s always great to talk with you. Really good to see you, and maybe when COVID is over, we’ll see you in Florida.
Rachel Gilmer: Yes, I hope so.
Marc Steiner: All right.
Rachel Gilmer: Thank you all so much. Thank you.
Marc Steiner: Thank you. Thank you.
Rachel Gilmer: ‘Bye-bye.
Marc Steiner: ‘Bye-bye. We’ve been talking to Rachel Gilmer, who joined us from Florida. She had to go. She’s working the polls and organizing in Florida, and she had to run. So, before we hit our next segment, which is coming up shortly, I think that maybe.
Studio: Dwayne Gladden
Production: Andrew Corkery
Post-Production: Tunde Ogunfolaju
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