therealnews--2020-04-30--Ryan Grim: Dems’ Coronavirus Response Repeats Past Blunders

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Jaisal Noor : Welcome to the Real News .
I ’ m Jaisal Noor .
The Trump administration ’ s response to the coronavirus pandemic has been nothing short of catastrophic .
Instead of using the Defense Production Act to create badly needed personal protective equipment , Trump is using it to reopen meat plants shuttered due to outbreaks of COVID-19 .
Meanwhile , Congress has passed an unprecedented stimulus package that will give up to $ 6 trillion of corporations , but the vast @ @ @ @ @ @ @ go into the pockets of ordinary Americans , including the over 26 million or one in seven workers who have filed for unemployment thus far .
Instead , this bailout represents one of the biggest transfers of wealth to those who need it least this country has ever seen .
This begs the question , where are the Democrats ?
Well , our next guest has some insight into this vital question .
Ryan Grim is the D.C. Bureau Chief for the Intercept , author of , We ’ ve Got People from @ @ @ @ @ @ @ The End of Big Money and the Rise of a Movement .
So Ryan , thanks for joining us for part two of this conversation .
I thought your book is really helpful in this moment because it sort of gives insight into where the Democratic Party is right now and it seems a lot of people feel like have not really addressed the needs of working Americans .
And the cracks in this stimulus ’ response have been massive and they just announced they ’ re going to be recessed .
They @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , they ’ re going to be recessed even further .
What are your thoughts on this current moment we ’ re at ?
Ryan Grim : Yeah , so a lot of people note when they look at the Democratic leadership on TV how geriatric they are , but what they don ’ t think about is , well , what does that mean about those people ’ s life experiences ?
And in my book I go into detail about who these people are and what kind of politics they experienced @ @ @ @ @ @ @ their politics today .
Because whether we like to admit it or not , a lot of our view of the world is really shaped as we ’ re coming into our own .
We all try hard to continue to learn throughout our lives and to continue to incorporate new information , new experiences , and evolve our way of thinking , but that isn ’ t in practice that easy to do .
And so , millennials for instance , no matter what , are going to be deeply shaped by @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as they ’ re emerging into adulthood .
And now shaped by this crisis again , as they ’ re emerging just from the last one .
Gen Xers have their own series of things that helped shape their worldview .
People like Chuck Schumer , Nancy Pelosi , Steny Hoyer really came of political age in the late 1970s , early 1980s amid the kind of right wing backlash and the Reagan revolution .
In 1978 there was a huge midterm wave that brought people like Newt Gingrich to Congress which presaged @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
It ’ s hard to overstate how crushing that 1980 election was for Democrats , in particular ones who are just getting into politics like the current leadership was .
Because you didn ’ t just have the incumbent Democratic president thrown out of office , you have him thrown out of office by what they saw as a rodeo clown , this actor from California who wasn ’ t running like the moderate Republicans that they had come to understand .
Richard Nixon , as a lot of people now know @ @ @ @ @ @ @ into law , that sort of thing .
This was not your grandfather ’ s Republican .
This was much more of a Newt Gingrich revolutionary type of class that came in .
Not only did he win , but they lost 12 seats in the Senate .
It was just an absolutely extraordinary trouncing .
And they didn ’ t just lose a massive number , they lost Senators who ’ d been , in some cases , for four decades , people who had been the pillars of what it meant @ @ @ @ @ @ @ century , leaders in the fields of environmentalism and consumer rights and anti-war .
Frank Church , for instance , loses his race in 1980 .
Mike Ravel actually lost a primary in 1980 .
An entire generation wiped out .
Birch Bayh , who had been kind of a Liberal lion who had been a front runner for President in 1976 , by 1980 he ’ s losing his race .
And so Democrats feel like they ’ ve just been thoroughly rejected by the American people and that the American people @ @ @ @ @ @ @ hint of kind of Progressivism or Liberalism is going to be tossed out .
And so , they retrench and they reorient themselves around a strategy to raise tons of corporate money so that they can hire good consultants to win back these swing districts and these middle of the road voters that are so elusive to them .
Any hint of a tick to the Left begins to scare them that there ’ s going to be another backlash and when they finally get back into the White House with Bill Clinton @ @ @ @ @ @ @ % of the vote in the general election , two years later , their worst fears .
Another backlash , boom .
2008 , they get back into the White House again and two years later , boom , a huge , huge backlash .
And so , over and over again , the Democratic leaders have lived through these backlashes against any Democratic advances and so they ’ ve just internalized the idea that if they do anything , they ’ re going to get hammered for it .
And so Nancy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ logical extreme and has adjourned the House , scattered it to the wind , and preventing it from actually doing anything other than responding to whatever the Republican Senate sends its way and then having to do it through some version of unanimous consent because the members aren ’ t even in the House floor .
The virtue of that strategy would be there can ’ t be a backlash to it theoretically because there ’ s nothing to backlash against if you ’ re not doing anything .
They also are hoping @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so set himself on fire politically that Democrats will just kind of walk backwards into controlling the House , Senate , and the White House in 2021 .
And nobody at this point can tell them that they ’ re actually wrong about that .
Jaisal Noor : And what was always interesting from attending some of the Sanders rallies , we covered them in Iowa and New Hampshire and some other states , is that that was exactly the point that people like AOC were making .
They were saying , “ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ back to what it was like before Trump .
We ’ re trying to build a new vision for society and have a different relationship , have a social contract like we haven ’ t seen in this country .
I think one of the most interesting parts of your book , one of the most relevant to this moment is how you covered the recovery from the 2008 economic crash when you talk about the role that not only corporations and lobbyists played in shaping the recovery , but also that Progressive @ @ @ @ @ @ @ talk about groups like Indivisible , which were prominent later , but groups that actually were able to help change laws and help sway the President or sway Congress one way or the other .
And so you have those lessons , but you also have Joe Biden appointing someone like Larry Summers to be an unofficial advisor at this point , an advisor outside of his campaign .
Talk about where we are today compared to this previous crash .
Ryan Grim : Right .
The Left has been battling with the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be more aggressive for decades and it really did flame up in the first couple of years of the Obama administration , but what Robert Gibbs , who was the Press Secretary at the time called the professional Left .
We ’ re often handicapped by the fact that a lot of these Liberal groups rely on the same donor network , and Rahm Emanuel was making calls to that network , telling them if they criticize blue dog Democrats or if they criticize Obama , I want you to cut off your @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Left to build an independent grassroots structure that could challenge the White House and push it in a more Progressive direction .
But in a lot of ways it was a desert .
The Congressional Progressive Caucus was meek , wasn ’ t able to extract many concessions from Pelosi who ’ s an adept tactician and parliamentary infighter and also has a lot of experience fighting the Left .
She often says , “ Look , I understand Progressives , I ’ m a Progressive .
I represent San Francisco .
It @ @ @ @ @ @ @ cities in the world.
” But as I write in the book , she got to office in a contested primary where she was the kind of establishment business friendly candidate against the Vice Chair of the Local Democratic Socialists of America against an insurgent grassroots campaign .
And it was a race that she only won by a few thousand votes .
And so when she says she understands the Left , she understands them in conflict with them , not as somebody who kind of led an insurgent movement to come @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so the Left has been losing these fights internally for years and they ’ re still struggling to gain much purchase in the House today .
Jaisal Noor : And I guess , in your book , your title is The End of Big Money and the Rise of a Movement and I think it sort of can give hope at this time for Progressives who ’ ve had a really tough year to really put it in the context of where things were when you talk about the campaign of Jackson in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ shut down by the Democratic establishment and just to see how Sanders ’ campaign was so different and him being front runner for several weeks in this election , what are your thoughts about how far the Progressive movement is coming and the work that really remains ?
Ryan Grim : And so The End of Big Money , that ’ s kind of an aspirational subtitle .
Obviously , big money is still here and continues to play a major role in our politics , but the rise of small money has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ enabled someone like Sanders and other insurgent to compete in a way that at least puts them on a footing where they have a shot at winning .
Doesn ’ t guarantee victory and they ’ re very rarely going to outspend their opponents , but it gets them to a threshold place where they ’ re at least viable and where their ideas have to be considered as part of the conversation and when they are , voters tend to react favorably to them .
The next step is continuing to professionalize @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the idea that they ’ ve been inculcated with , that Liberalism and Progressivism equals losing , that if you have a left wing candidate , therefore they ’ re going to be rejected by the population .
A lot of voters , particularly baby boomers , have very much internalized that idea , you saw it play out after South Carolina and into Super Tuesday .
Part of this is demographics .
The party is getting younger as baby boomers gradually age out of it , though there ’ s kind of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ these different thresholds when it comes to cataclysmic climate change .
But at the same time , the world is not going to end , there ’ s still going to have to be some forms of government even in a post climate apocalyptic scenario .
And so that ’ s what makes the organizing today , building community and building social bases , that much more important .
Jaisal Noor : All right , Ryan Grim .
Thanks so much for joining us .
Author of We ’ ve Got People from @ @ @ @ @ @ @ The End of Big Money and the Rise of a Movement .
Thanks so much for joining us .
Ryan Grim : Great to talk with you .
Jaisal Noor : And make sure to catch both parts of our interview at therealnews.com .
Thanks so much for watching .

Sanders is out of the race, but the fight over the future of the Democratic part continues, says Ryan Grim, author of We’ve Got People: From Jesse Jackson to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the End of Big Money and the Rise of a Movement.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Jaisal Noor: Welcome to the Real News. I’m Jaisal Noor. The Trump administration’s response to the coronavirus pandemic has been nothing short of catastrophic. Instead of using the Defense Production Act to create badly needed personal protective equipment, Trump is using it to reopen meat plants shuttered due to outbreaks of COVID-19. Meanwhile, Congress has passed an unprecedented stimulus package that will give up to $6 trillion of corporations, but the vast majority of its benefits don’t go into the pockets of ordinary Americans, including the over 26 million or one in seven workers who have filed for unemployment thus far.
Instead, this bailout represents one of the biggest transfers of wealth to those who need it least this country has ever seen. This begs the question, where are the Democrats? Well, our next guest has some insight into this vital question. Ryan Grim is the D.C. Bureau Chief for the Intercept, author of, We’ve Got People from Jesse Jackson to Alexandria Ocasio Cortez: The End of Big Money and the Rise of a Movement. So Ryan, thanks for joining us for part two of this conversation. I thought your book is really helpful in this moment because it sort of gives insight into where the Democratic Party is right now and it seems a lot of people feel like have not really addressed the needs of working Americans. And the cracks in this stimulus’ response have been massive and they just announced they’re going to be recessed. They’re not coming back next week, they’re going to be recessed even further. What are your thoughts on this current moment we’re at?
Ryan Grim: Yeah, so a lot of people note when they look at the Democratic leadership on TV how geriatric they are, but what they don’t think about is, well, what does that mean about those people’s life experiences? And in my book I go into detail about who these people are and what kind of politics they experienced in the 1970s and 1980s that formed their politics today. Because whether we like to admit it or not, a lot of our view of the world is really shaped as we’re coming into our own. We all try hard to continue to learn throughout our lives and to continue to incorporate new information, new experiences, and evolve our way of thinking, but that isn’t in practice that easy to do. And so, millennials for instance, no matter what, are going to be deeply shaped by the financial crisis that they lived through as they’re emerging into adulthood. And now shaped by this crisis again, as they’re emerging just from the last one.
Gen Xers have their own series of things that helped shape their worldview. People like Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer really came of political age in the late 1970s, early 1980s amid the kind of right wing backlash and the Reagan revolution. In 1978 there was a huge midterm wave that brought people like Newt Gingrich to Congress which presaged Ronald Reagan’s victory in 1980. It’s hard to overstate how crushing that 1980 election was for Democrats, in particular ones who are just getting into politics like the current leadership was. Because you didn’t just have the incumbent Democratic president thrown out of office, you have him thrown out of office by what they saw as a rodeo clown, this actor from California who wasn’t running like the moderate Republicans that they had come to understand.
Richard Nixon, as a lot of people now know, he signed the Environmental Protection Act into law, that sort of thing. This was not your grandfather’s Republican. This was much more of a Newt Gingrich revolutionary type of class that came in. Not only did he win, but they lost 12 seats in the Senate. It was just an absolutely extraordinary trouncing. And they didn’t just lose a massive number, they lost Senators who’d been, in some cases, for four decades, people who had been the pillars of what it meant to be a Liberal throughout the 20th century, leaders in the fields of environmentalism and consumer rights and anti-war. Frank Church, for instance, loses his race in 1980. Mike Ravel actually lost a primary in 1980. An entire generation wiped out. Birch Bayh, who had been kind of a Liberal lion who had been a front runner for President in 1976, by 1980 he’s losing his race.
And so Democrats feel like they’ve just been thoroughly rejected by the American people and that the American people are a center-right people, that any hint of kind of Progressivism or Liberalism is going to be tossed out. And so, they retrench and they reorient themselves around a strategy to raise tons of corporate money so that they can hire good consultants to win back these swing districts and these middle of the road voters that are so elusive to them. Any hint of a tick to the Left begins to scare them that there’s going to be another backlash and when they finally get back into the White House with Bill Clinton thanks to Ross Perot cleaving off 19% of the vote in the general election, two years later, their worst fears. Another backlash, boom. 2008, they get back into the White House again and two years later, boom, a huge, huge backlash.
And so, over and over again, the Democratic leaders have lived through these backlashes against any Democratic advances and so they’ve just internalized the idea that if they do anything, they’re going to get hammered for it. And so Nancy Pelosi has now taken that to its logical extreme and has adjourned the House, scattered it to the wind, and preventing it from actually doing anything other than responding to whatever the Republican Senate sends its way and then having to do it through some version of unanimous consent because the members aren’t even in the House floor. The virtue of that strategy would be there can’t be a backlash to it theoretically because there’s nothing to backlash against if you’re not doing anything. They also are hoping in this context that Donald Trump will so set himself on fire politically that Democrats will just kind of walk backwards into controlling the House, Senate, and the White House in 2021. And nobody at this point can tell them that they’re actually wrong about that.
Jaisal Noor: And what was always interesting from attending some of the Sanders rallies, we covered them in Iowa and New Hampshire and some other states, is that that was exactly the point that people like AOC were making. They were saying, “We don’t want to go back to what it was like before Trump. We’re trying to build a new vision for society and have a different relationship, have a social contract like we haven’t seen in this country. I think one of the most interesting parts of your book, one of the most relevant to this moment is how you covered the recovery from the 2008 economic crash when you talk about the role that not only corporations and lobbyists played in shaping the recovery, but also that Progressive lawmakers and Progressive groups played. You talk about groups like Indivisible, which were prominent later, but groups that actually were able to help change laws and help sway the President or sway Congress one way or the other.
And so you have those lessons, but you also have Joe Biden appointing someone like Larry Summers to be an unofficial advisor at this point, an advisor outside of his campaign. Talk about where we are today compared to this previous crash.
Ryan Grim: Right. The Left has been battling with the Democratic establishment trying to push it to be more aggressive for decades and it really did flame up in the first couple of years of the Obama administration, but what Robert Gibbs, who was the Press Secretary at the time called the professional Left. We’re often handicapped by the fact that a lot of these Liberal groups rely on the same donor network, and Rahm Emanuel was making calls to that network, telling them if they criticize blue dog Democrats or if they criticize Obama, I want you to cut off your funding. And so it required the Left to build an independent grassroots structure that could challenge the White House and push it in a more Progressive direction.
But in a lot of ways it was a desert. The Congressional Progressive Caucus was meek, wasn’t able to extract many concessions from Pelosi who’s an adept tactician and parliamentary infighter and also has a lot of experience fighting the Left. She often says, “Look, I understand Progressives, I’m a Progressive. I represent San Francisco. It’s one of the most Progressive cities in the world.” But as I write in the book, she got to office in a contested primary where she was the kind of establishment business friendly candidate against the Vice Chair of the Local Democratic Socialists of America against an insurgent grassroots campaign. And it was a race that she only won by a few thousand votes. And so when she says she understands the Left, she understands them in conflict with them, not as somebody who kind of led an insurgent movement to come to the House of Representatives. And so the Left has been losing these fights internally for years and they’re still struggling to gain much purchase in the House today.
Jaisal Noor: And I guess, in your book, your title is The End of Big Money and the Rise of a Movement and I think it sort of can give hope at this time for Progressives who’ve had a really tough year to really put it in the context of where things were when you talk about the campaign of Jackson in the eighties and how he was totally shut down by the Democratic establishment and just to see how Sanders’ campaign was so different and him being front runner for several weeks in this election, what are your thoughts about how far the Progressive movement is coming and the work that really remains?
Ryan Grim: And so The End of Big Money, that’s kind of an aspirational subtitle. Obviously, big money is still here and continues to play a major role in our politics, but the rise of small money has changed the playing field and it has enabled someone like Sanders and other insurgent to compete in a way that at least puts them on a footing where they have a shot at winning. Doesn’t guarantee victory and they’re very rarely going to outspend their opponents, but it gets them to a threshold place where they’re at least viable and where their ideas have to be considered as part of the conversation and when they are, voters tend to react favorably to them. The next step is continuing to professionalize it and to persuade voters away from the idea that they’ve been inculcated with, that Liberalism and Progressivism equals losing, that if you have a left wing candidate, therefore they’re going to be rejected by the population.
A lot of voters, particularly baby boomers, have very much internalized that idea, you saw it play out after South Carolina and into Super Tuesday. Part of this is demographics. The party is getting younger as baby boomers gradually age out of it, though there’s kind of a ticking clock as the world confronts these different thresholds when it comes to cataclysmic climate change. But at the same time, the world is not going to end, there’s still going to have to be some forms of government even in a post climate apocalyptic scenario. And so that’s what makes the organizing today, building community and building social bases, that much more important.
Jaisal Noor: All right, Ryan Grim. Thanks so much for joining us. Author of We’ve Got People from Jesse Jackson to Alexandria Ocasio Cortez: The End of Big Money and the Rise of a Movement. Thanks so much for joining us.
Ryan Grim: Great to talk with you.
Jaisal Noor: And make sure to catch both parts of our interview at therealnews.com. Thanks so much for watching.
Production: Genevieve Montinar, Taylor Hebden, Andrew Corkery
Studio: Taylor Hebden
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therealnews--2020-05-01--Stir Crazy! Episode #26: The Workers Strike Back!

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therealnews--2020-05-01--American Police Have Stashed Away Billions-And You Are Paying The Bill

Host & Producer
Taya Graham is an award-winning investigative reporter who has covered U.S. politics, local government, and the criminal justice system. She is the host of TRNN's "Police Accountability Report," and producer and co-creator of the award-winning podcast "Truth and Reconciliation" on Baltimore's NPR affiliate WYPR. She has written extensively for a variety of publications including the Afro American Newspaper, the oldest black-owned publication in the country, and was a frequent contributor to Morgan State Radio at a historic HBCU. She has also produced two documentaries, including the feature-length film "The Friendliest Town." Although her reporting focuses on the criminal justice system and government accountability, she has provided on the ground coverage of presidential primaries and elections as well as local and state campaigns. Follow her on Twitter.


therealnews--2020-05-04--Stir Crazy! Episode #27: May The Fourth Be With Us All

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therealnews--2020-05-04--The Obscenity Of ‘Honoring Healthcare Workers’ With Military Flyovers

“ America Strong ” military flights over some of the cities hardest hit by COVID-19 offered by the Trump administration as “ tribute ” to beleaguered healthcare and essential workers have been met with outrage and ridicule .
“ Instead of spending $ 60,000 per flight hour on a showy attempt at solidarity , please spend that money housing homeless and incarcerated people in safe places where they can be socially distanced , ” said Kate Dunn , a registered nurse in Baltimore .
“ For me , that is what actual support and solidarity would look like .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ my patients were at less risk.
” The squadrons flew over cities including New York and San Diego last week , and flew over Baltimore , Washington , DC , and Atlanta on Saturday , May 2 .
The Blue Angel and Thunderbird planes cost at least $ 18 million each , and the Washington Post estimates $ 60,000 in fuel is burned to fly a squadron for one hour .
“ We ’ re excited to fly over cities across America as our way of saying thanks to the healthcare workers , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ who selflessly run into the breach working to keep America strong , ” Air Force Gen. Dave Goldfein and Navy Adm. Michael Gilday said in a press release .
The U.S. spends more on its military than Germany , the UK , France , Russia , China , India , and Saudi Arabia combined .
As of May 1 , Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security reported over one million confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the United States , including 63,019 deaths , though totals are likely higher .
At least 26 million @ @ @ @ @ @ @ unemployment .
An estimated 12.7 million Americans have lost employer-based health insurance .
Johns Hopkins recently laid off 190 mostly-Black cafeteria workers .
One day before the flyovers , many took part in a national May Day action to demand adequate pay and safe working conditions for essential workers , with calls for boycotts of online retailers , along with rent strikes .
“ I think every person in this country , with minimal effort , could think of at least one way that money would have been better spent , ” said @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Baltimore , many frustrated residents observed the flight paths for the planes covered the county and the predominantly white and wealthy areas of the city , and bypassed Black neighborhoods in East and West Baltimore ( named the “ White L ” and “ Black Butterfly ” by professor Lawrence Brown ) , emphasizing the city ’ s deep racial segregation , and disparities in health and economic outcomes that come with it .
COVID-19 has amplified existing racial inequities , with African Americans disportionately impacted by the disease and as a result @ @ @ @ @ @ @ same day the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds flew over Baltimore ’ s predominantly white areas , the city ’ s billionaire-funded surveillance plane—the subject of years of scandal and a recent ACLU lawsuit—was reintroduced .
Its flight patterns over the past few days indicate it will be flying over East and West Baltimore .
Meanwhile , nurses across the country are protesting dire shortages of masks and other basic personal protective equipment ( PPE ) during the COVID-19 pandemic that has pushed the nation ’ s profit-driven healthcare system to the breaking point @ @ @ @ @ @ @ funds be a better tribute if they were spent instead on COVID-19 PPE , tests , and food/basic supplies for those in need ?
” said Lindasay Beane , DrPH .
Reusing masks can cause contamination , and nurses say they fear spreading COVID-19 to their patients or families .
“ I would rather have that money spent on PPE [ than “ America Strong ” ] so I don ’ t have to wear the same surgical mask for multiple shifts , ” a Baltimore-area nurse who spoke on the condition of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people are wearing surgical masks in patient care areas for as long as two weeks straight.
” The inherent militarism of these flyovers is also of concern .
“ The last thing I want to see—and I know plenty of healthcare workers who feel the same way—is a symbol of death and destruction in the midst of such a deadly pandemic , ” said former U.S. Army Ranger and author Rory Fanning .
The Defense Department says the flights fulfil training requirements for the pilots , and come at “ no additional cost @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 2019 budget totaled $ 738 billion , which is more than the total allocated that year for every domestic program combined .
“ The Trump administration should be spending every second and cent figuring out how to supply immediate support to those impacted by the COVID-19 crisis , ” Fanning said .
In contrast to these flyovers , on May 2-3 , progressive activist Jordan Uhl organized a virtual fundraiser for Baltimore-based Healthcare for the Homeless , a nonprofit that provides housing , support , and healthcare services to people experiencing homelessness .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ that , in the richest country in the world , the government is focusing on hollow displays of patriotism and militaristic theatrics instead of actually helping people who are suffering , ” Uhl said .
“ Baltimore is a city that has been directly criticized by this administration—calling it a ‘ rodent infested mess ’ —but his solution to helping it during a time of need is flying planes overhead .
”

“America Strong” military flights over some of the cities hardest hit by COVID-19 offered by the Trump administration as “tribute” to beleaguered healthcare and essential workers have been met with outrage and ridicule.
“Instead of spending $60,000 per flight hour on a showy attempt at solidarity, please spend that money housing homeless and incarcerated people in safe places where they can be socially distanced,” said Kate Dunn, a registered nurse in Baltimore. “For me, that is what actual support and solidarity would look like. And I would sleep better at night knowing my patients were at less risk.”
The squadrons flew over cities including New York and San Diego last week, and flew over Baltimore, Washington, DC, and Atlanta on Saturday, May 2.
The Blue Angel and Thunderbird planes cost at least $18 million each, and the Washington Post estimates $60,000 in fuel is burned to fly a squadron for one hour. “We’re excited to fly over cities across America as our way of saying thanks to the healthcare workers, first responders, and all the people who selflessly run into the breach working to keep America strong,” Air Force Gen. Dave Goldfein and Navy Adm. Michael Gilday said in a press release.
The U.S. spends more on its military than Germany, the UK, France, Russia, China, India, and Saudi Arabia combined.
As of May 1, Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security reported over one million confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the United States, including 63,019 deaths, though totals are likely higher. At least 26 million people—or one in seven workers—have filed for unemployment. An estimated 12.7 million Americans have lost employer-based health insurance.
Johns Hopkins recently laid off 190 mostly-Black cafeteria workers. One day before the flyovers, many took part in a national May Day action to demand adequate pay and safe working conditions for essential workers, with calls for boycotts of online retailers, along with rent strikes.
“I think every person in this country, with minimal effort, could think of at least one way that money would have been better spent,” said Baltimore certified nurse-midwife Kristen Janiszewski.
In Baltimore, many frustrated residents observed the flight paths for the planes covered the county and the predominantly white and wealthy areas of the city, and bypassed Black neighborhoods in East and West Baltimore (named the “White L” and “Black Butterfly” by professor Lawrence Brown), emphasizing the city’s deep racial segregation, and disparities in health and economic outcomes that come with it.
COVID-19 has amplified existing racial inequities, with African Americans disportionately impacted by the disease and as a result of the disease economically. On the same day the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds flew over Baltimore’s predominantly white areas, the city’s billionaire-funded surveillance plane—the subject of years of scandal and a recent ACLU lawsuit—was reintroduced. Its flight patterns over the past few days indicate it will be flying over East and West Baltimore.
Meanwhile, nurses across the country are protesting dire shortages of masks and other basic personal protective equipment (PPE) during the COVID-19 pandemic that has pushed the nation’s profit-driven healthcare system to the breaking point.
“Wouldn’t these flyover funds be a better tribute if they were spent instead on COVID-19 PPE, tests, and food/basic supplies for those in need?” said Lindasay Beane, DrPH.
Reusing masks can cause contamination, and nurses say they fear spreading COVID-19 to their patients or families.
“I would rather have that money spent on PPE [than “America Strong”] so I don’t have to wear the same surgical mask for multiple shifts,” a Baltimore-area nurse who spoke on the condition of anonymity said. “At my institution people are wearing surgical masks in patient care areas for as long as two weeks straight.”
The inherent militarism of these flyovers is also of concern.
“The last thing I want to see—and I know plenty of healthcare workers who feel the same way—is a symbol of death and destruction in the midst of such a deadly pandemic,” said former U.S. Army Ranger and author Rory Fanning.
The Defense Department says the flights fulfil training requirements for the pilots, and come at “no additional cost to taxpayers.” The Pentagon’s 2019 budget totaled $738 billion, which is more than the total allocated that year for every domestic program combined.
“The Trump administration should be spending every second and cent figuring out how to supply immediate support to those impacted by the COVID-19 crisis,” Fanning said.
In contrast to these flyovers, on May 2-3, progressive activist Jordan Uhl organized a virtual fundraiser for Baltimore-based Healthcare for the Homeless, a nonprofit that provides housing, support, and healthcare services to people experiencing homelessness.
“It’s a grim irony that, in the richest country in the world, the government is focusing on hollow displays of patriotism and militaristic theatrics instead of actually helping people who are suffering,” Uhl said. “Baltimore is a city that has been directly criticized by this administration—calling it a ‘rodent infested mess’—but his solution to helping it during a time of need is flying planes overhead.”
Uhl’s Fortnite stream raised over $6,000.
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therealnews--2020-05-04--Germany Plans To Arm Drones Under Cover Of COVID-19 Crisis

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Welcome to the Real News .
I ’ m Marc Steiner , great to have you all with us .
In the midst of this Covid pandemic , hidden under the radar , no pun intended , is a question : Why is Germany determined to weaponize their drones ?
I think there ’ s too many German drones being deployed .
Germany has no real enemies .
In 2018 , the German parliament ’ s three ruling parties agreed to acquire drones capable of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Germany against armed drones stopped all that .
For a moment anyway .
Saying they can only use them now for gathering information .
This time , neither the German Heron TP drones , that are leased from the Israeli company IAI , or the Eurodrone , which Germany is developing in a joint venture with other European Union countries for NATO , can carry missiles .
The agreement mandated that before any vote in the German parliament to arm drones , there has to be a , “ broad public debate , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ international [ inaudible 00:00:59 ] to law and ethical implications.
” So , they can ’ t do armed drones .
But , according to correspondence news received from the German minister of defense , or members of the German parliament , that ministry plans to sidestep all of that .
By having broad open debates , as they call them .
On their own premises , with a restricted group of parliamentarians , journalists and experts .
That they will invite of course , someone else will .
The debate is taking @ @ @ @ @ @ @ But in a lockdown , how can you have a public debate ?
It ’ s a tradition in Germany to hold peace rallies over the Easter weekend .
But this year the rally is a ritual .
So , Peter [ inaudible 00:01:34 ] from the peace group , Attack .
Send this recorded Easter message .
The consequence of this irresponsible escalation can only be to close US military bases in Germany .
The drones , with which the US kills , in violation of international law , are controlled from @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the murderous US imperialism , and developed its own foreign policy .
And not just in Germany , and not just because of the drones .
Therefore , dear friends , our struggle against Defender 2020 , Defender 2022 , and 2024 must be joined with the struggle against the US air base in Ramstein , and vice versa .
So where does this all take us and Germany , and world peace ?
We are joined by Elsa Rossbach who ’ s a filmmaker and a journalist .
Joining us from Berlin @ @ @ @ @ @ @ all the national anti-drone campaign , in Germany .
It ’ s a working group against armed drones in Germany , affiliate [ inaudible 00:02:43 ] international .
She ’ s active in an attack [ inaudible 00:02:46 ] of the Ramstein campaign .
And her documentary short on Iraq war veterans ; We Were Soldiers In The War On Terror , is going on Amazon .
And her dramatic film ; The Killing Fields… 1985 award-winning dramatic film .
About the struggle between black and white workers , in justice in the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ; was just released .
And she joins us now .
Elsa , good to have you with us .
Thank you .
I ’ m glad to be here .
Let me take a step backwards in this ; from all the [ inaudible 00:03:17 ] understandings I ’ ve read and I ’ ve covered before ; Germany is not supposed to be allowed to develop these kinds of weapons .
Correct ?
Since World War II .
What are we all missing here ?
It ’ s true that Germany @ @ @ @ @ @ @ German basic law , which is the German Constitution that was signed in 1948 , I believe .
It has a provision in it , Article 26 , that there may be no aggressive war from German soil .
So , everything they ’ re doing , with regard to military , they do not define it as aggressive war .
Contradiction is that the drone was developed as a weapon , specifically , for aggression .
It ’ s not a defensive weapon , it ’ s just for aggression .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ by the US and also some other NATO partners .
But particularly the US , as well as Israel , in ways that German basic law and in fact international law and most of European law , disagrees with .
So this is the contradiction .
Germany already has troops in number of countries , [ inaudible 00:04:34 ] in Mali and in Afghanistan .
The US is on Ramstein air base , [ inaudible 00:04:42 ] is in Germany .
Where illegal drone strikes are being called .
What about the struggle @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , the demands their making , how it ’ s related to drones , and how public is this ?
Oh , the issue of drones and whether or not to have drones has been… On weaponized drones at least .
Has been an ongoing issue since 2012 , when the CDU defense ; that ’ s Christian Democratic Union , party of Angela Merkel .
The ruling party or the largest party .
Went publicly and said he wanted weaponized drones .
And the same thing happened again when von der Leyen @ @ @ @ @ @ @ say every time there ’ s a new German defense minister , which up till now , the last years ; at least going back to 2012 , has been CDU .
So , the new defense minister is called Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer , which is even too difficult with the Germans to pronounce so they call her AKK .
So that ’ s even in the news .
She decided , “ Well , I ’ m now here , I ’ m going to get these drones through.
” So there has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to 2012 , when it was first considered .
And a lot of this has been based on sharp criticism of how the US is using the weapon , which is not in line with German law , since the defeat of the Nazis .
To get to the heart of this ; let ’ s talk a bit about how they ’ re used by the US here and why the ruling parties really want to have these restrictions lifted .
Why does Germany need armed drones ?
What ’ s the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ armed drones ?
And how do you stop it ?
We argue that they don ’ t need this weapon and that this weapon , even if the current government swears they will not use it in ways that violate international law and constitutional law and ethics ; there will be future German governments .
We don ’ t want the German government to have this weapon , we think it , first of all , shouldn ’ t even be paid for out of the resources .
But secondly , this weapon @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s face it .
It was designed to be used by the CIA , and by other the secret services .
It was designed to take decisions about aggressive strikes out of the hands of the parliaments or the US Congress .
So , this is what this weapon is for when it ’ s weaponized .
And going back , surveillance drones were used by the US during the Vietnam war .
Germany had to use surveillance drones since 1960 .
Surveillance drones were used also in the Yugoslavian war .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ put weapons on the drones and did their first strike , I believe in 2001 , in Afghanistan ; which was all secret from us in the US .
I say that as a US citizen .
And was secret for a good eight years , pretty much , as far as public debate was concerned .
You know , once that started , the issue here is whether drones… Not whether they should exist , although many disagree with the surveillance purposes , but it ’ s whether they may carry weapons @ @ @ @ @ @ @ really new because of Corona .
What has happened is that this same deadlock… A deadlock between not only the peace movement but broad forces in German society are members of the social democratic party .
Even some members of the conservative parties are against weaponizing the drones .
So the result of that is that there has never been a sufficient majority in the German parliament since 2012 , to weaponize these drones .
And this is very unusual and it goes back to the deep consideration of the importance of international @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , after the Nazi regime .
A huge reflection , has been going on process , German guilt , all of that .
And you know that there are great monuments here in commemoration of the victims of the Holocaust .
And this has been a fairly deep process in Germany .
It ’ s not been totaled .
There ’ s a Right Wing movement in Germany , but interestingly enough , this is across Europe .
And Germany is only 13th in the list .
Germany has about 10 % that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And in other countries it goes up to 27 % and so forth .
Even Sweden and Switzerland are ahead of Germany .
So , there is this deep passivism care about international law .
And these are the issues that are supposed to be discussed thoroughly .
That ’ s mandated in the ruling coalitions ’ agreement .
Discussed thoroughly , broadly , publicly ; before drones may be weaponized .
This has been a demand since 2012 .
So , two quick questions here .
One is , I ’ m @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it , how you found out that the ministry of defense was wanting to arm their drones or were starting to arm their drones ?
What ’ s the political plan moving forward ?
The way that we found out is that , as I said , many parliamentarians ; including the Social Democratic Party to a large extent , the Left Party , the Green Party , they all oppose weaponizing the drones .
So , one of the parliamentarians with whom are friendly , in the SPD , who ’ ve @ @ @ @ @ @ @ [ inaudible 00:10:55 ] movement against arming the drones ; gave us the correspondence , the letters they had received from the defense ministry , stating that they wanted… It wasn ’ t because of Corona .
They originally wrote a letter on February 2nd , saying they want to start the broad public debate in the defense ministry .
And it was supposed to be the 24th of March .
And then they were going to have all these different experts and so forth .
But a limited number .
And they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ vote regarding a discussion paper and get all the parties aligned with their vision , and then present it to the German Parliament .
So we ’ re against that altogether .
What really surprised us is that despite Corona and the lockdown , they have written in early April… And we received this also from the German military , in answer to correspondence .
They ’ re planning to go ahead with this .
And say that they ’ ve had this public debate , but it would be like having a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
I mean it ’ s not really possible .
You know , with the Pentagon inviting the witnesses and all .
So this is going to be protested by many in the German parliament , as well as outside .
As they say , we have a very different situation here in the US , that is called the parliamentarian army .
That is to say every use of weapons has to be authorized by the parliament .
And the parliament has a fairly broad , diverse , array of political opinion @ @ @ @ @ @ @ parties in our parliament rather than two .
Yeah .
And finally , just to conclude .
It seems to me that this particular question , begs a lot of other questions about ; A , the Trump administration pushing Germany and other countries to pay more for the military .
Germany now has the largest military acting out of states , inside of NATO .
And the world ’ s going to be increasingly arming themselves to the teeth , across the globe and in Europe , especially .
So , what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this could take the struggle around that ?
Well , in addition to the forces that want to uphold international law in Germany , it ’ s clear that they ’ re not strong enough .
Otherwise , once it was revealed , starting around 2013 , 2014 through US whistle blowers ; that Ramstein is essential for the US drone strikes .
Germany could have taken strong action to prevent that .
So , there are lots of militarists here in above all there ’ s weapons industries .
Germany was the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ technology during the Nazi era .
And all their technological info was taken by the US and the Soviet Union , basically , once Germany was defeated .
So many have the ambition to compete internationally .
They also fear the US , they want to be able to have an independent foreign policy from the US .
An independent foreign policy , however , could be a pacifist foreign policy .
It could also be a weaponized foreign policy .
It could be that they would say , “ Hey , we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ European Military and we ’ re going to compete with the US militarily .
And we ’ ll be able to say no to the US.
” So there ’ s that going on as well .
And so it ’ s interesting that Germany is the only European country that decided not to go with the weaponizedable US , MALE drone from General Atomics ; Preditor and the Reaper .
But to go with the Israeli drone .
And the reason is that they don ’ t trust whether the US would @ @ @ @ @ @ @ gathered from the US drones .
And Israel will collaborate with Germany , which is leading the effort to have a Eurodrone .
But it ’ s still a big issue here in Germany , whether , also the Eurodrone could be weaponized .
If they decide now , if they ever managed to have this public debate and debate in the Bundestag , the German Parliament , about weaponizing the drones , which they have not had yet .
And it ’ s a requirement of some of the parliamentary parties that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ do have it , it will be precedent setting .
It will mean that the Eurodrone would not be weaponized in Germany .
Even if it is elsewhere .
It would mean that autonomous weapons could not be weaponized .
You know , until something like that was overturned , maybe , in a later parliament .
But that will be the consequence of it .
So it ’ s very diverse sources .
This is fascinating .
Elsa , I appreciate you taking the time with this today .
This is a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ flying under the radar , I said at the very beginning .
And it needs to see the light of day and thank you so much for your work as filmmaker .
But also you ’ re work in the peace movement .
Thank you for joining us today .
Now we ’ re going to be reaching out .
You asked what we ’ re doing .
We are doing a big letter writing campaign in the Corona .
And we ’ ve done it in 2017 and the majority in the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ drones .
And we did it in 2018 and got this binding agreement ; there has to be this discussion .
Very important were letters from us activists , and people around the world who said , “ We never got a chance in our societies to really discuss this drone issue .
And we ’ re grateful that Germany is doing this , as the only NATO country that has this.
” So I just wanted to let you know that there will be a link , I believe on this story @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
If you would like to write a brief letter to the German parliamentarians , this could be very effective .
Elsa , thank you very much .
And that will be up there and people will be responding , I ’ m sure .
And good to have you with us and thank you for your work and appreciate the time you ’ re taking today with us .
Thank you for having me .
Okay , good .
And I ’ m Marc Steiner here of The Real News Network .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ And please stay safe , stay home , take care .

Peace groups in Germany are alarmed that the German defense ministry is planning to arm drones while the legally-required debate can’t be held under the COVID-19 shutdown.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Marc Steiner:
Welcome to the Real News. I’m Marc Steiner, great to have you all with us. In the midst of this Covid pandemic, hidden under the radar, no pun intended, is a question: Why is Germany determined to weaponize their drones? I think there’s too many German drones being deployed. Germany has no real enemies. In 2018, the German parliament’s three ruling parties agreed to acquire drones capable of carrying weapons. Strong popular resistance in Germany against armed drones stopped all that. For a moment anyway. Saying they can only use them now for gathering information. This time, neither the German Heron TP drones, that are leased from the Israeli company IAI, or the Eurodrone, which Germany is developing in a joint venture with other European Union countries for NATO, can carry missiles. The agreement mandated that before any vote in the German parliament to arm drones, there has to be a, “broad public debate,” to carefully evaluate “issues of international [inaudible 00:00:59] to law and ethical implications.” So, they can’t do armed drones.
Marc Steiner:
But, according to correspondence news received from the German minister of defense, or members of the German parliament, that ministry plans to sidestep all of that. By having broad open debates, as they call them. On their own premises, with a restricted group of parliamentarians, journalists and experts. That they will invite of course, someone else will. The debate is taking place now, in the lockdown. But in a lockdown, how can you have a public debate? It’s a tradition in Germany to hold peace rallies over the Easter weekend. But this year the rally is a ritual. So, Peter [inaudible 00:01:34] from the peace group, Attack. Send this recorded Easter message.
Speaker 3:
[foreign language 00:17:23].
Speaker 4:
The consequence of this irresponsible escalation can only be to close US military bases in Germany. The drones, with which the US kills, in violation of international law, are controlled from Ramstein. Europe was cut loose from the murderous US imperialism, and developed its own foreign policy. And not just in Germany, and not just because of the drones. Therefore, dear friends, our struggle against Defender 2020, Defender 2022, and 2024 must be joined with the struggle against the US air base in Ramstein, and vice versa.
Marc Steiner:
So where does this all take us and Germany, and world peace? We are joined by Elsa Rossbach who’s a filmmaker and a journalist. Joining us from Berlin in Germany. She’s co-founder all the national anti-drone campaign, in Germany. It’s a working group against armed drones in Germany, affiliate [inaudible 00:02:43] international. She’s active in an attack [inaudible 00:02:46] of the Ramstein campaign. And her documentary short on Iraq war veterans; We Were Soldiers In The War On Terror, is going on Amazon. And her dramatic film; The Killing Fields… 1985 award-winning dramatic film. About the struggle between black and white workers, in justice in the [inaudible 00:03:03], in 1919; was just released. And she joins us now. Elsa, good to have you with us.
Elsa:
Thank you. I’m glad to be here.
Marc Steiner:
Let me take a step backwards in this; from all the [inaudible 00:03:17] understandings I’ve read and I’ve covered before; Germany is not supposed to be allowed to develop these kinds of weapons. Correct? Since World War II. What are we all missing here?
Elsa:
It’s true that Germany, After world War II, the German basic law, which is the German Constitution that was signed in 1948, I believe. It has a provision in it, Article 26, that there may be no aggressive war from German soil. So, everything they’re doing, with regard to military, they do not define it as aggressive war. Contradiction is that the drone was developed as a weapon, specifically, for aggression. It’s not a defensive weapon, it’s just for aggression. And it’s been used in ways by the US and also some other NATO partners. But particularly the US, as well as Israel, in ways that German basic law and in fact international law and most of European law, disagrees with. So this is the contradiction.
Marc Steiner:
Germany already has troops in number of countries, [inaudible 00:04:34] in Mali and in Afghanistan. The US is on Ramstein air base, [inaudible 00:04:42] is in Germany. Where illegal drone strikes are being called. What about the struggle going on in Germany between peace movements, the demands their making, how it’s related to drones, and how public is this?
Elsa:
Oh, the issue of drones and whether or not to have drones has been… On weaponized drones at least. Has been an ongoing issue since 2012, when the CDU defense; that’s Christian Democratic Union, party of Angela Merkel. The ruling party or the largest party. Went publicly and said he wanted weaponized drones. And the same thing happened again when von der Leyen became the defense minister. And we say every time there’s a new German defense minister, which up till now, the last years; at least going back to 2012, has been CDU. So, the new defense minister is called Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, which is even too difficult with the Germans to pronounce so they call her AKK. So that’s even in the news. She decided, “Well, I’m now here, I’m going to get these drones through.” So there has been resistance to this weapon going back to 2012, when it was first considered. And a lot of this has been based on sharp criticism of how the US is using the weapon, which is not in line with German law, since the defeat of the Nazis.
Marc Steiner:
To get to the heart of this; let’s talk a bit about how they’re used by the US here and why the ruling parties really want to have these restrictions lifted. Why does Germany need armed drones? What’s the logic they’re using to create armed drones? And how do you stop it?
Elsa:
We argue that they don’t need this weapon and that this weapon, even if the current government swears they will not use it in ways that violate international law and constitutional law and ethics; there will be future German governments. We don’t want the German government to have this weapon, we think it, first of all, shouldn’t even be paid for out of the resources. But secondly, this weapon is designed for targeted killing. Let’s face it. It was designed to be used by the CIA, and by other the secret services. It was designed to take decisions about aggressive strikes out of the hands of the parliaments or the US Congress. So, this is what this weapon is for when it’s weaponized.
Elsa:
And going back, surveillance drones were used by the US during the Vietnam war. Germany had to use surveillance drones since 1960. Surveillance drones were used also in the Yugoslavian war. But the issue is once the US put weapons on the drones and did their first strike, I believe in 2001, in Afghanistan; which was all secret from us in the US. I say that as a US citizen. And was secret for a good eight years, pretty much, as far as public debate was concerned. You know, once that started, the issue here is whether drones… Not whether they should exist, although many disagree with the surveillance purposes, but it’s whether they may carry weapons. And there’s not something really new because of Corona. What has happened is that this same deadlock… A deadlock between not only the peace movement but broad forces in German society are members of the social democratic party. Even some members of the conservative parties are against weaponizing the drones.
Elsa:
So the result of that is that there has never been a sufficient majority in the German parliament since 2012, to weaponize these drones. And this is very unusual and it goes back to the deep consideration of the importance of international law, that Germans came to recognize, after the Nazi regime. A huge reflection, has been going on process, German guilt, all of that. And you know that there are great monuments here in commemoration of the victims of the Holocaust. And this has been a fairly deep process in Germany. It’s not been totaled. There’s a Right Wing movement in Germany, but interestingly enough, this is across Europe. And Germany is only 13th in the list. Germany has about 10% that would vote for the Right Wing. And in other countries it goes up to 27% and so forth. Even Sweden and Switzerland are ahead of Germany. So, there is this deep passivism care about international law. And these are the issues that are supposed to be discussed thoroughly. That’s mandated in the ruling coalitions’ agreement. Discussed thoroughly, broadly, publicly; before drones may be weaponized. This has been a demand since 2012.
Marc Steiner:
So, two quick questions here. One is, I’m very curious if you can talk about it, how you found out that the ministry of defense was wanting to arm their drones or were starting to arm their drones? What’s the political plan moving forward?
Elsa:
The way that we found out is that, as I said, many parliamentarians; including the Social Democratic Party to a large extent, the Left Party, the Green Party, they all oppose weaponizing the drones. So, one of the parliamentarians with whom are friendly, in the SPD, who’ve spoken out with us and with the [inaudible 00:10:55] movement against arming the drones; gave us the correspondence, the letters they had received from the defense ministry, stating that they wanted… It wasn’t because of Corona. They originally wrote a letter on February 2nd, saying they want to start the broad public debate in the defense ministry. And it was supposed to be the 24th of March. And then they were going to have all these different experts and so forth. But a limited number. And they were going to try to have a vote regarding a discussion paper and get all the parties aligned with their vision, and then present it to the German Parliament.
Elsa:
So we’re against that altogether. What really surprised us is that despite Corona and the lockdown, they have written in early April… And we received this also from the German military, in answer to correspondence. They’re planning to go ahead with this. And say that they’ve had this public debate, but it would be like having a broad public debate sitting in the Pentagon. I mean it’s not really possible. You know, with the Pentagon inviting the witnesses and all. So this is going to be protested by many in the German parliament, as well as outside. As they say, we have a very different situation here in the US, that is called the parliamentarian army. That is to say every use of weapons has to be authorized by the parliament. And the parliament has a fairly broad, diverse, array of political opinion. You know, we have six parties in our parliament rather than two. Yeah.
Marc Steiner:
And finally, just to conclude. It seems to me that this particular question, begs a lot of other questions about; A, the Trump administration pushing Germany and other countries to pay more for the military. Germany now has the largest military acting out of states, inside of NATO. And the world’s going to be increasingly arming themselves to the teeth, across the globe and in Europe, especially. So, what does this portend about where you think this could take the struggle around that?
Elsa:
Well, in addition to the forces that want to uphold international law in Germany, it’s clear that they’re not strong enough. Otherwise, once it was revealed, starting around 2013, 2014 through US whistle blowers; that Ramstein is essential for the US drone strikes. Germany could have taken strong action to prevent that. So, there are lots of militarists here in above all there’s weapons industries. Germany was the leading developer of the precursor of drone technology during the Nazi era. And all their technological info was taken by the US and the Soviet Union, basically, once Germany was defeated.
Elsa:
So many have the ambition to compete internationally. They also fear the US, they want to be able to have an independent foreign policy from the US. An independent foreign policy, however, could be a pacifist foreign policy. It could also be a weaponized foreign policy. It could be that they would say, “Hey, we’re going to head up the European Military and we’re going to compete with the US militarily. And we’ll be able to say no to the US.” So there’s that going on as well. And so it’s interesting that Germany is the only European country that decided not to go with the weaponizedable US, MALE drone from General Atomics; Preditor and the Reaper. But to go with the Israeli drone. And the reason is that they don’t trust whether the US would look into their intelligence, that they gathered from the US drones. And Israel will collaborate with Germany, which is leading the effort to have a Eurodrone.
Elsa:
But it’s still a big issue here in Germany, whether, also the Eurodrone could be weaponized. If they decide now, if they ever managed to have this public debate and debate in the Bundestag, the German Parliament, about weaponizing the drones, which they have not had yet. And it’s a requirement of some of the parliamentary parties that they do have it. If they do have it, it will be precedent setting. It will mean that the Eurodrone would not be weaponized in Germany. Even if it is elsewhere. It would mean that autonomous weapons could not be weaponized. You know, until something like that was overturned, maybe, in a later parliament. But that will be the consequence of it. So it’s very diverse sources.
Marc Steiner:
This is fascinating. Elsa, I appreciate you taking the time with this today. This is a really important subject that it’s flying under the radar, I said at the very beginning. And it needs to see the light of day and thank you so much for your work as filmmaker. But also you’re work in the peace movement. Thank you for joining us today.
Elsa:
Now we’re going to be reaching out. You asked what we’re doing. We are doing a big letter writing campaign in the Corona. And we’ve done it in 2017 and the majority in the parliament turned down getting even weaponized double drones. And we did it in 2018 and got this binding agreement; there has to be this discussion. Very important were letters from us activists, and people around the world who said, “We never got a chance in our societies to really discuss this drone issue. And we’re grateful that Germany is doing this, as the only NATO country that has this.” So I just wanted to let you know that there will be a link, I believe on this story, and you’ll have information. If you would like to write a brief letter to the German parliamentarians, this could be very effective.
Marc Steiner:
Elsa, thank you very much. And that will be up there and people will be responding, I’m sure. And good to have you with us and thank you for your work and appreciate the time you’re taking today with us.
Elsa:
Thank you for having me. Okay, good.
Marc Steiner:
And I’m Marc Steiner here of The Real News Network. Thank you all for joining us. And please stay safe, stay home, take care.
Production: Genevieve Montinar, Bababtunde Ogunfolaju
Studio: Bababtunde Ogunfolaju
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