therealnews--2020-02-10--Warren Makes Final Pitch in New Hampshire

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Speaker 1 : Is New Hampshire Elizabeth Warren ’ s last standard to use another cliche as a do or die ?
Elizabeth Warre… : There are 55 more States and territories after this .
It looks like it is going to be a long battle to the nomination .
We have already built out offices and have on the ground troops in 30 states .
One of the advantages to deciding at the very beginning that I was not going to spend 70 % @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and corporate executives and lobbyists means that I ’ ve had more time to go around and do town halls all around this nation .
Jaisal Noor : I ’ m Jaisal Noor .
We ’ re at the Elizabeth Warren rally in Concord , New Hampshire , just two days before the nation ’ s first primary taking place here .
Campaign co-chairs , freshman Congresswoman Deb Haaland , Katie Porter and Ayanna Pressley introduced the Massachusetts senator , arguing she ’ s the best candidate to defeat Donald Trump .
Deb @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are yet undecided , I want you to know that Elizabeth can win .
She can beat Donald Trump , she can make sure that we restore compassion and love and accountability to the presidency and to this government .
Katie Porter : I want to say just a word about this message and why it is the message that will help us beat Donald Trump .
I stand before you today , the first Democrat since the 1930s to represent my part of Orange County , California as a deficit of trust @ @ @ @ @ @ @ fact that Elizabeth keeps her promises when you know that there are so many people living with broken hearts because of broken promises because of broken systems .
And that is why big structural change can ’ t wait .
Jaisal Noor : In her remarks , Senator Warren recounted her personal journey and then took questions from the audience .
Elizabeth Warre… : My work was always about one central question and that is what ’ s happening to working families in America .
Why is America ’ s middle class being @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people who work every bit as hard as my parents worked two generations ago today find the path so much rockier and so much steeper , and for people of color , even rockier and even steeper ?
Jaisal Noor : She addressed her plans for public schools .
Elizabeth Warre… : … with just two cents .
And here ’ s the answer , for two cents on the top , one-tenth of 1 % , and just so everybody knows last year the 99 % paid 7.2 % of your total @ @ @ @ @ @ @ top one-tenth of 1 % paid 3.2 % okay ?
Yeah , so they pitch in just two cents here ’ s what we can do .
Universal childcare and early education for every child in this country .
[ crosstalk 00:03:37 ] Universal pre-K for every three year old and four year old in America .
Stop exploiting the people who do this work , largely black and brown women , raise the wages of every childcare worker and preschool teacher in America .
Two cents .
Elizabeth Warre… : The problem @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have an America that works great for those at the top , including corporations .
We need to stop and acknowledge in America , trickle down economics has been a monumental failure and has undercut working people throughout this country .
I am making a real commitment , a trillion-dollar commitment to environmental justice to cleaning up the mess that we have collectively made for decades now .
Another part , I ’ m strong on the green new deal , but it ’ s not enough .
I ’ ve also got @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to take care of our oceans .
Jaisal Noor : We caught up with Nelini Stamp from the Working Families Party which has endorsed Elizabeth Warren .
Nelini Stamp : For the last decade , and even plus Senator Warren has been working with communities when she fought to pass the CFPB , the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau .
She did that with outside and not being in the halls of Washington and did that with grassroots organizations , institutions , movements to take on the Republicans , to take on the democratic @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And so I think she has a vision that our members and our organization really believe in .
Jaisal Noor : With Cameron Granadino , this is Jaisal Noor in Concord , New Hampshire .

Sen. Elizabeth Warren, who vows to tax the rich to pay for social programs, says New Hampshire isn’t ‘do or die’ for her campaign.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Speaker 1: Is New Hampshire Elizabeth Warren’s last standard to use another cliche as a do or die?
Elizabeth Warre…: There are 55 more States and territories after this. It looks like it is going to be a long battle to the nomination. We have already built out offices and have on the ground troops in 30 states. One of the advantages to deciding at the very beginning that I was not going to spend 70% of my time sucking up to billionaires and corporate executives and lobbyists means that I’ve had more time to go around and do town halls all around this nation.
Jaisal Noor: I’m Jaisal Noor. We’re at the Elizabeth Warren rally in Concord, New Hampshire, just two days before the nation’s first primary taking place here. Campaign co-chairs, freshman Congresswoman Deb Haaland, Katie Porter and Ayanna Pressley introduced the Massachusetts senator, arguing she’s the best candidate to defeat Donald Trump.
Deb Haaland: For those of you who are yet undecided, I want you to know that Elizabeth can win. She can beat Donald Trump, she can make sure that we restore compassion and love and accountability to the presidency and to this government.
Katie Porter: I want to say just a word about this message and why it is the message that will help us beat Donald Trump. I stand before you today, the first Democrat since the 1930s to represent my part of Orange County, California as a deficit of trust and faith in government. And the fact that Elizabeth keeps her promises when you know that there are so many people living with broken hearts because of broken promises because of broken systems. And that is why big structural change can’t wait.
Jaisal Noor: In her remarks, Senator Warren recounted her personal journey and then took questions from the audience.
Elizabeth Warre…: My work was always about one central question and that is what’s happening to working families in America. Why is America’s middle class being hollowed out? Why is it that people who work every bit as hard as my parents worked two generations ago today find the path so much rockier and so much steeper, and for people of color, even rockier and even steeper?
Jaisal Noor: She addressed her plans for public schools.
Elizabeth Warre…: … with just two cents. And here’s the answer, for two cents on the top, one-tenth of 1%, and just so everybody knows last year the 99% paid 7.2% of your total wealth and taxes. Okay. That top one-tenth of 1% paid 3.2% okay? Yeah, so they pitch in just two cents here’s what we can do. Universal childcare and early education for every child in this country. [crosstalk 00:03:37] Universal pre-K for every three year old and four year old in America.
Stop exploiting the people who do this work, largely black and brown women, raise the wages of every childcare worker and preschool teacher in America. Two cents.
Jaisal Noor: Addressed contract work, inequality, the housing crisis, health care and climate change.
Elizabeth Warre…: The problem is a lot bigger. We now have an America that works great for those at the top, including corporations. We need to stop and acknowledge in America, trickle down economics has been a monumental failure and has undercut working people throughout this country. I am making a real commitment, a trillion-dollar commitment to environmental justice to cleaning up the mess that we have collectively made for decades now. Another part, I’m strong on the green new deal, but it’s not enough. I’ve also got a blue new deal. We got to take care of our oceans.
Jaisal Noor: We caught up with Nelini Stamp from the Working Families Party which has endorsed Elizabeth Warren.
Nelini Stamp: For the last decade, and even plus Senator Warren has been working with communities when she fought to pass the CFPB, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. She did that with outside and not being in the halls of Washington and did that with grassroots organizations, institutions, movements to take on the Republicans, to take on the democratic establishment and the banks and win. And so I think she has a vision that our members and our organization really believe in.
Jaisal Noor: With Cameron Granadino, this is Jaisal Noor in Concord, New Hampshire.
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therealnews--2020-02-10--Nina Turner: Politicians Shouldn’t Answer to the Billionaire Class, they Should Answer to the People

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Speaker 1 : We are at a turning point in this nation and we can not continue to do things the same old way that they ’ ve been done , that somebody has to stand up and call it out and be willing to put a lot on the line to be the change that they want to see in this world of , quoting brother Mahatma Gandhi .
Speaker 2 : Mayor Pete has the greatest amount of support by billionaires .
Why @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the party , the progressive wing , really take him on going forward ?
Speaker 1 : Because we can ’ t continue to go down this path .
Billionaires control everything in this country , from policies , to all of the money , to the greed .
We need to… We already got one billionaire in the White House who is giving away the farm to all of his friends , and dare I say , his family .
We need a candidate who stands up for the working class @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Sanders , $ 0 from billionaire .
There is a difference .
The question must be asked , whose side are you on ?
Speaker 2 : What do you think of what ’ s happened in Iowa ?
A lot of people are frustrated .
Do you think the DNC ’ s going to get its act together ?
Speaker 1 : People should be frustrated .
The Iowa Democratic Party failed .
The DNC failed , so the DNC shouldn ’ t just call out the Iowa Democratic Party .
Last @ @ @ @ @ @ @ these parties throughout the state .
So shame on them for just calling out the Iowa Democratic Party .
The DNC is part of the problem .
Iowa left the cloud , not the people of Iowa , and I feel bad for the people of Iowa who pride themselves , as you know , on their caucus and the thousands of volunteers .
The voters of that great state don ’ t deserve what happened to them .
This must be fixed so that it doesn ’ t happen in any other @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you had an exchange recently about how Bernie is an oligarch , was the argument made .
Any response to that ?
Speaker 1 : Jesus .
You know what ?
It ’ s ridiculous .
$ 2 million compared to $ 60 billion .
There is no comparison .
The person made that argument is mistaken , doesn ’ t know what he ’ s talking about .
It ’ s faulty .
Bloomberg and others are oligarchs in this country .
Let ’ s call it what it is , when @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to influence government and to flat out buy this office .
Ain ’ t got to take my word for it , look at what ’ s happening all over this country .
It is time-out for that .
So we ’ re going to start calling out people for who they are , whether you are the oligarch yourself or you taking billions of dollars worth of donations from wealthy people to try to stop progress in this country , whether it be the Green New Deal , whether it be college @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
You have in the candidate of Mr. Buttigieg somebody that is bending to the will of those types of donors , as he talks against the Green New Deal .
He said it ’ s spending too much money .
He talks against college for all , “ Can ’ t be done , ” or , “ I don ’ t want to send wealthy people ’ s kids to college.
” You ain ’ t going to send wealthy people ’ s kids to college because they don ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Medicare for all , he wants Medicare for all who choose , understanding that you can not have a two-tier system like that .
We already have that right now , it ’ s called Medicare and Medicaid .
We already have a two-tier system right now , that ’ s called millions of people in this country who are either underinsured or uninsured .
We need bold vision and bold leadership .
Senator Bernie Sanders has more than proven himself throughout the decades that he is the type of champion who will @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , but take it to the streets on behalf of the working-class people of this nation .
Speaker 2 : Finally , we were going in the streets and there was people calling for the moderators to talk about climate change and climate justice and calling out candidates that are taking money from billionaires , from fossil fuel billionaires .
What ’ s your message to young people that are trying to make this a central issue ?
Speaker 1 : This is the way we ’ re going to get the change @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is about Not Me , Us .
We have to take it to the streets and make our voices heard and make it known that we not going to tolerate it anymore .
And then we ’ ve got to start coming for these people ’ s seats .
Either they going to raise money in a different way… We can do that differently now .
I get it .
Once upon a time , you felt like you had to do it that way .
But Senator Bernie Sanders has shown very @ @ @ @ @ @ @ raise money , grassroots dollars , and raise enough money to compete .
We need a pure paradigm shift in this country .
It ’ s not just going to happen automatically , we going to have to force it .
So I shout out my sisters and brothers who taking it to the streets to say no more fossil fuel… Another type of forum that we need to have is one about poverty .
The Reverend Dr. William Barber of the Poor People ’ s Campaign , he ’ s carrying on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Luther King Jr.
He ’ s been asking and asking the DNC for the longest time to do a forum about poverty .
So we got to stand up and talk about those issues as well .
God bless my sisters and brothers who calling these politicians out .
United together , we are going to bend the body politic and force the people that we elect to office to do the right thing for once in their lives .
Don ’ t answer to the billionaire class , but answer to the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .

Former Ohio Sen. Nina Turner says there are oligarchs influencing the government in the United States, but Sen. Bernie Sanders definitely isn’t one of them.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Speaker 1: We are at a turning point in this nation and we cannot continue to do things the same old way that they’ve been done, that somebody has to stand up and call it out and be willing to put a lot on the line to be the change that they want to see in this world of, quoting brother Mahatma Gandhi.
Speaker 2: Mayor Pete has the greatest amount of support by billionaires. Why is it important that the Sanders wing of the party, the progressive wing, really take him on going forward?
Speaker 1: Because we can’t continue to go down this path. Billionaires control everything in this country, from policies, to all of the money, to the greed. We need to… We already got one billionaire in the White House who is giving away the farm to all of his friends, and dare I say, his family. We need a candidate who stands up for the working class, and that candidate is Senator Bernie Sanders, $0 from billionaire. There is a difference. The question must be asked, whose side are you on?
Speaker 2: What do you think of what’s happened in Iowa? A lot of people are frustrated. Do you think the DNC’s going to get its act together?
Speaker 1: People should be frustrated. The Iowa Democratic Party failed. The DNC failed, so the DNC shouldn’t just call out the Iowa Democratic Party. Last time I checked, the DNC creates these parties throughout the state. So shame on them for just calling out the Iowa Democratic Party. The DNC is part of the problem. Iowa left the cloud, not the people of Iowa, and I feel bad for the people of Iowa who pride themselves, as you know, on their caucus and the thousands of volunteers. The voters of that great state don’t deserve what happened to them. This must be fixed so that it doesn’t happen in any other state.
Speaker 2: I know you had an exchange recently about how Bernie is an oligarch, was the argument made. Any response to that?
Speaker 1: Jesus. You know what? It’s ridiculous. $2 million compared to $60 billion. There is no comparison. The person made that argument is mistaken, doesn’t know what he’s talking about. It’s faulty. Bloomberg and others are oligarchs in this country. Let’s call it what it is, when you use your money and your power to influence government and to flat out buy this office. Ain’t got to take my word for it, look at what’s happening all over this country. It is time-out for that.
So we’re going to start calling out people for who they are, whether you are the oligarch yourself or you taking billions of dollars worth of donations from wealthy people to try to stop progress in this country, whether it be the Green New Deal, whether it be college for all, or Medicare for all. You have in the candidate of Mr. Buttigieg somebody that is bending to the will of those types of donors, as he talks against the Green New Deal. He said it’s spending too much money.
He talks against college for all, “Can’t be done,” or, “I don’t want to send wealthy people’s kids to college.” You ain’t going to send wealthy people’s kids to college because they don’t need that kind of help. And Medicare for all, he wants Medicare for all who choose, understanding that you cannot have a two-tier system like that. We already have that right now, it’s called Medicare and Medicaid. We already have a two-tier system right now, that’s called millions of people in this country who are either underinsured or uninsured.
We need bold vision and bold leadership. Senator Bernie Sanders has more than proven himself throughout the decades that he is the type of champion who will continue to not only to stand up, but take it to the streets on behalf of the working-class people of this nation.
Speaker 2: Finally, we were going in the streets and there was people calling for the moderators to talk about climate change and climate justice and calling out candidates that are taking money from billionaires, from fossil fuel billionaires. What’s your message to young people that are trying to make this a central issue?
Speaker 1: This is the way we’re going to get the change. That’s why our campaign is about Not Me, Us. We have to take it to the streets and make our voices heard and make it known that we not going to tolerate it anymore. And then we’ve got to start coming for these people’s seats. Either they going to raise money in a different way… We can do that differently now. I get it. Once upon a time, you felt like you had to do it that way. But Senator Bernie Sanders has shown very clearly, twice, that you can raise money, grassroots dollars, and raise enough money to compete.
We need a pure paradigm shift in this country. It’s not just going to happen automatically, we going to have to force it. So I shout out my sisters and brothers who taking it to the streets to say no more fossil fuel… Another type of forum that we need to have is one about poverty. The Reverend Dr. William Barber of the Poor People’s Campaign, he’s carrying on the mission of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. He’s been asking and asking the DNC for the longest time to do a forum about poverty. So we got to stand up and talk about those issues as well. God bless my sisters and brothers who calling these politicians out.
United together, we are going to bend the body politic and force the people that we elect to office to do the right thing for once in their lives. Don’t answer to the billionaire class, but answer to the people. [inaudible 00:04:52] somebody.
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therealnews--2020-02-11--In New Hampshire, the Working Families Party Endorses Elizabeth Warren

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Nelini Stamp says Warren addresses race, gender, and class like no other candidate does.
Story Transcript
JAISAL NOOR: I’m Jaisal Noor in Concord, New Hampshire just two days before the New Hampshire primary, the first primary contest of the year.
And I’m here with Nelini Stamp. She’s the director of organizing for the Working Families Party. Thanks so much for talking with us.
NELINI STAMP: Thank you so much for having me.
JAISAL NOOR: So the Working Families Party came out for Elizabeth Warren. We’re at an Elizabeth Warren rally right now. You can hear her talking behind us. So talk about why the Working Families Party came out in support of Senator Warren.
NELINI STAMP: Yeah. Well, we had a process where we interviewed any candidate that actually went through our process and submitted a questionnaire and our organization, which is made up of individuals, organizations, grassroots movements, voted to endorse Senator Warren in September.
And I think it’s because for the last decade and even plus, Senator Warren has been working with communities when she fought to pass the CFPB, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. She did that with outside and not being in the halls of Washington and did that with grassroots organizations, institutions, movements to take on the Republicans, to take on the Democratic establishment and the banks and win. And so I think she has a vision that our members and our organization really believe in.
JAISAL NOOR: And so is the biggest issue for the Working Families Party defeating Donald Trump, and if so, why is Elizabeth Warren the best candidate do that?
NELINI STAMP: I think yes, part of one of the big things for the Working Families Party is defeating Donald Trump. We also need to make sure that we defeat the Senate. We also want to make sure that we hold onto the House. So we see it as a full picture, and we want to flip state legislators across the country; and not just flip it with Democrats that don’t believe in our issues, but actually progressives that are going to fight for things like Fight For 15, paid family leave, and all of our issues.
And we do actually believe that Senator Warren is a great person to beat Donald Trump for a few reasons. One is that even though she’s been in Massachusetts for a while, she grew up in Oklahoma, she knows what it’s like to grow up working class and can also speak to people across the spectrum. People see her vision of universal healthcare, universal childcare, breaking up big tech and they want that vision. And we think we need somebody who has the experience of going up against Republicans and Democrats and banks and special interests and winning. And she does from winning the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
JAISAL NOOR: And as far as the primary goes, some people have said that Senator Warren doesn’t necessarily have the support in communities of color right now, according to some polls, that she would need to secure the primary. And so she doesn’t necessarily have a path to victory. What’s your response to that and what kind of work are groups doing to build that support?
NELINI STAMP: Well, I think that it’s evident that still a majority of people of color, communities of color are still undecided in this election. Because really every four years, people come knocking on our doors and expect us to show up. And so it’s organizations like ours, a bunch of grassroots organizations that are out there that have been doing the work of engaging communities of color year round, all the time that they’re going to listen to. And so we’re hoping to talk to our base.
And I think that one of the things that I would say is that when you saw black women come out doing a process with over a hundred–now 300–black women who are standing with Senator Warren, and when you have all of these communities that are still undecided, I think it’s something that we really do need to talk about. And what I see is, just this weekend or a few days ago, there was a Latino tour through Texas, through the Rio Grande Valley. And that’s the commitment that I want to see to our communities. And I think that she’s actually doing the work to make that happen.
JAISAL NOOR: And as far as the issue of taking on big money in politics, taking on the power of big corporations, that has been a fight in the Democratic party for decades and Elizabeth Warren has been a big figure in that. Do you think that she is the best, will be the best candidate to sort of lead the progressive movement forward and why?
NELINI STAMP: Yeah. I mean, I think that… Listen. It’s really great that we have multiple progressives this stage in the race, right. And I think that the reason why Elizabeth Warren is the best candidate to move that forward is because she has a history of winning. But also, she actually knows each and every detail of how government works and how to get our issues passed, right. She has backup plans for if we don’t have a Senate that flips, right. She actually understands what it’s like working with Republicans and what it’s like working with Democrats, what it’s like working in the system that we have. And I think that that’s part of her appeal is that we can actually unite under a vision.
And I think the other thing is that she addresses race, gender, and class in a way that I think no other candidate does. And I think that can unite a bunch of progressives, right. You have a candidate who’s out there who chose her biggest speeches to be Lowell, Massachusetts, where there was a working women’s strike years ago, Atlanta, the washer women’s strike. She chose to talk about Francis Perkins and how Francis Perkins was actually the figure behind the new deal. And I think that that’s really important because in telling those stories and talking about radical struggles, she’s actually leading us a pathway forward of who can actually lead these movements. And I really believe that she is a candidate that progressives can get behind.
JAISAL NOOR: Do you have faith that the progressive movement will be able to unite even after this primary because there are still going to be these fights that are ongoing within the party and outside of the party to bring real progressive change because it has gotten kind of ugly in the last few weeks.
NELINI STAMP: Yeah. I mean, I think the progressives will unite. I think we see the bigger picture as well. We know that there are people who are fighting deportations. We know that people are fighting living paycheck to paycheck. And for folks who do grassroots organizing community work, grassroots work with rural communities, we’re going to put our communities front and center.
And there might be some tiffs, there might be some disagreements along the way, but I do actually fundamentally believe in the power of we and that we’ll come together and in a way to actually represent the people that we work for and that represent the people that we work with.
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therealnews--2020-02-11--Sanders’ Path to Victory Relies on Turning Out New Voters

Jaisal is currently the Democracy Initiative Manager at the Solutions Journalism Network and is a former TRNN host, producer, and reporter. He mainly grew up in the Baltimore area and studied modern history at the University of Maryland, College Park. Before joining TRNN, he contributed print, radio, and TV reports to Free Speech Radio News, Democracy Now! and The Indypendent. Jaisal's mother has taught in the Baltimore City Public School system for the past 25 years. Follow him on Twitter @jaisalnoor.


therealnews--2020-02-11--Activists Demand Public Control of Presidential Debates

Gregory Wilpert is Managing Editor at TRNN. He is a German-American sociologist who earned a Ph.D. in sociology from Brandeis University in 1994. Between 2000 and 2008 he lived in Venezuela, where he first taught sociology at the Central University of Venezuela and then worked as a freelance journalist, writing on Venezuelan politics for a wide range of publications and also founded Venezuelanalysis.com, an English-langugage website about Venezuela. In 2007 he published the book, Changing Venezuela by Taking Power: The History and Policies of the Chavez Government (Verso Books). In 2014 he moved to Quito, Ecuador, to help launch teleSUR English. In early 2016 he began working for The Real News Network as host, researcher, and producer. Since September 2018 he has been working as Managing Editor at The Real News. Gregory's wife worked as a Venezuelan diplomat since 2008 and from January 2015 until October 2018 she was Venezuela's Ambassador to Ecuador.


therealnews--2020-02-11--‘Bernie Beats Trump’ Rally Draws Thousands on Eve of New Hampshire Primary


therealnews--2020-02-12--Sanders Wins New Hampshire

Sanders Wins New Hampshire


therealnews--2020-02-12--‘Parasite’ Is a Class-Conscious Climate Parable

KIM BROWN : Welcome to The Real News .
I ’ m Kim Brown .
At the 92nd annual Academy Awards show that aired Sunday , the film Parasite became the first foreign language film ever to win the Oscar for best picture .
The film simply cleaned up ; picking up the best original screenplay , and the erudite director Bong Joon-Ho won the Oscar for best director .
Spoiler alert : It is first and foremost about segregation by class between the elites and everyone else in South Korea .
But it ’ s also about climate change @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of it on the front lines , a topic that makes a key twist in the movie ’ s plot about halfway through the film .
As The Real News climate reporter alumnus Dharna Noor wrote for the publication Earther , Parasite is not only the first foreign language film to win one of the industry ’ s most hallowed prizes , it is also the first best picture winner to zoom in on the societal impacts of the climate crisis .
Now joining us to talk about it is Dr. Min Song @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Review of Books titled , Climate Change in the Film Parasite : An Ecological Look at Bong Joon-Ho ’ s new film .
Dr. Song is a professor in the English department at Boston College .
He also directs the school ’ s Asian American studies program .
He ’ s the former editor of the Journal of Asian American Studies , and he ’ s the author of the forthcoming book titled Climate Lyricism .
Thank you for joining us , Dr. Song .
MIN SONG : Thank you for having me @ @ @ @ @ @ @ if you ’ re watching : spoiler alert .
Now that said , Dr. Song , do us a favor and summarize your piece for us and any thinking that you ’ ve done on the topic since because , how and why is Parasite a film about the climate crisis ?
MIN SONG : Okay , so it never actually mentions climate change or global warming anywhere in the film , but it does if you ’ re paying attention for it , really come across very strongly .
It starts really @ @ @ @ @ @ @ carefully sets up the story where these very poor working class people find a way to get jobs working for this very wealthy family .
Halfway through the film , the wealthy family go away on a camping vacation , and this poor family , the Kim ’ s , get to just take it easy and kind of celebrate what they have and they ’ ve just kind of camped out in the house .
Of course , this huge rain happens at this point , and this is where I think @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Not so much saying , here ’ s an example of climate change as much as , here ’ s an effect of what happens when the weather gets really extreme .
The wealthy people have to come back from their camping trip because they ’ re almost washed away .
And for them , it ’ s just a minor annoyance .
But for this family who have to scramble to escape , there ’ s this really , I think amazing dramatic scene .
MIN SONG : It ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to see the difference between these very wealthy people who live on top of a hill for whom this unusually extreme weather is just an annoyance , and this working class family who loses everything and ends up in a gymnasium that ’ s made into a kind of temporary shelter .
In that way , I think the film does just a really brilliant job of traumatizing for viewers how the effects of extreme weather is being lived right now .
I don ’ t mean in the future , but I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ world in low lying areas where poor people live , they live in very similar circumstances .
Extreme weather , not even like a hurricane but just a heavy downpour can be ruinous for people who live in these areas .
KIM BROWN : Clearly the climate crisis is not being felt equally , it ’ s not being shared equally amongst people of differing classes .
In this film , Parasite , class is really integral to the plot of the film .
These interconnected issues , how do you think they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
MIN SONG : I think the film does just a really great job of conveying the sense in which the wealthy people are sheltered , they ’ re literally living on a hill .
The poor people live below , they ’ re always associated with the ground , the earth .
A lot is made about their smell .
There ’ s definitely a sharp class distinction being made .
I think there ’ s two important parts to this film that we need to keep in mind when we ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ part is that the wealthy family are not evil characters .
They aren ’ t going out of their way to mistreat their workers , and in fact they treat their workers as well as one could in those situations .
It ’ s clear that they pay them very well and they take care of them .
Though they boss them around .
And basically , they ’ re expected to be there and be invisible .
They also do say sort of obnoxious things about their smell later in the film @ @ @ @ @ @ @ t notably evil characters .
They ’ re just really normal , ordinary kind of people .
And in some ways , the problem that the wealthy family have in the film is that they ’ re ordinary and they really want to believe that they are more than that , that they are extraordinary people .
The mother is desperate to believe , for instance , that her son has artistic talent or that her daughter is going to be a really stellar student , and it ’ s clear throughout the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ t have a whole lot of artistic skill , and that the daughter isn ’ t going to be a great student .
The other thing that the film does with class that ’ s really interesting is that in order for the poor family to get the positions that they get in this wealthy household , they have to push out another woman who ’ s working there as a maid .
The film becomes also a conflict between working class people .
One of the challenges for the characters in the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ resistance of the wealthy people in terms of giving them or valuing their labor properly , as much as it is also about the difficulties of creating solidarity within working class people .
They are fighting each other for what are really scraps or really menial jobs .
And so , the film is also about the incredible difficulty of people who are in very similar socioeconomic positions , finding solidarity with one another .
More often than not in the film , what ’ s shown is that they are in fierce @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : Dr. Song , there ’ s also some Native American imagery at the center of many key scenes in the movie .
What did you make of that in a film mostly about South Korea ?
What do you think Parasite is conveying there with regards to the United States and its Indigenous population ?
MIN SONG : That ’ s a really great question , and I ’ ve been mulling it since I ’ ve seen the film .
I ’ ve been trying to figure out what the Native @ @ @ @ @ @ @ one hand , I think it ’ s extremely important to be careful about such imagery .
It just gets so abused .
Native American headdresses and figures get used as ornaments all the time in I think extremely troubling ways .
The film may be doing that , and it ’ s certainly something to keep in mind when we ’ re watching the film and really thinking about what the imagery means .
I don ’ t want to at all suggest that we should dismiss that possibility .
My own @ @ @ @ @ @ @ really wanted to create that it ’ s meant to show something about the wealthy family , that they are oblivious to how offensive that that use of Indian headdresses and tomahawks and teepees are .
That they see that as just a kind of fun affectation , or just entertainment .
They are oblivious to the controversy around it .
So if that ’ s the point of the film , I think it ’ s a really extraordinary thing that it ’ s meant for a Korean audience first , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ expected to understand how messed up the Native American imagery is and that they ’ re supposed to understand that this does not say nice things about the wealthy family , that they are people who don ’ t understand or insensitive to these kinds of issues .
And if that ’ s the case , I think it ’ s actually quite an extraordinary move in the film in the ways in which it assumes its audience knows this stuff and is sophisticated about understanding the face of Native Americans and US @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Song , you teach classes on climate change in literature , but it ’ s also becoming increasingly popular as a film topic .
Paul Schrader ’ s recent film , First Reformed , nominated for best original screenplay in 2019 , it comes to mind .
Talk to us about the importance of pop culture books and film in particular in conveying the urgency of the climate crisis in a way that reaches new audiences .
MIN SONG : Yeah .
I think it ’ s obviously important .
The ways in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ think really needs to be thought carefully about .
On the one hand , we do have a lot of very popular narratives in TV shows , and movies , and novels , and comic books even that show people living under extreme weather conditions where their climate has changed .
But it ’ s often in places far away like on another planet or in some future place , like a apocalyptic narrative .
Sometimes it ’ s caused by things like a meteorite or the sun inexplicably expanding and heating up @ @ @ @ @ @ @ weird reasons why the climate changes in these films , and they ’ re always seen as kind of fantastical moments .
So we are quite comfortable actually with depictions of our planet or our human inhabited planet becoming uninhabitable and then people struggling to survive on that planet .
That ’ s a actually very , very familiar story .
But there ’ s always , what makes it entertainment in some way is it ’ s so far away from us and so distance .
So what ’ s interesting about @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and movies and so on , or films and novels and so on , is the ways in which the setting is not far away but it ’ s actually very close and it ’ s set in the present , not in the far future .
Those kinds of things are happening all around a very familiar landscape , which looks a lot like our own .
I think that ’ s actually a really important move for narratives about climate change to make to show how people are struggling to survive @ @ @ @ @ @ @ changing around them , where extreme weather events are becoming more common , where there are droughts and fires , and that fiction in some ways is already reflecting a landscape that is our landscape .
Those are the kinds of narratives I think we need more of , and we ’ re starting to get them .
In some ways what ’ s happened I think though , is that narratives have kind of lagged behind what ’ s actually happening in the world around us .
It ’ s been true @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in my memory I think that one extreme weather event that really sticks out to me is Hurricane Katrina .
I remember very vividly watching it on TV and thinking , wow , this is like a movie .
But movies themselves haven ’ t really been able to show how those events are connected to climate change and how people are living that kind of reality until more recently .
I think that ’ s maybe a reflection of that lag that ’ s happening in literature .
KIM BROWN : We @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Song , who is a professor in the English department at Boston College .
He also directs the school ’ s Asian American studies program .
He ’ s working on a new book titled Climate Lyricism .
Dr. Song , we do appreciate your time today .
Thank you so much .
KIM BROWN : And thank you for watching The Real News .

Audiences are used to thinking of apocalyptic stories as fantasy. But “Parasite” resonates because it merges themes of class warfare and climate crisis to show the dystopia we’re already living in.
Story Transcript
KIM BROWN: Welcome to The Real News. I’m Kim Brown.
At the 92nd annual Academy Awards show that aired Sunday, the film Parasite became the first foreign language film ever to win the Oscar for best picture. The film simply cleaned up; picking up the best original screenplay, and the erudite director Bong Joon-Ho won the Oscar for best director. Spoiler alert: It is first and foremost about segregation by class between the elites and everyone else in South Korea. But it’s also about climate change and those who will bear the brunt of it on the front lines, a topic that makes a key twist in the movie’s plot about halfway through the film. As The Real News climate reporter alumnus Dharna Noor wrote for the publication Earther, Parasite is not only the first foreign language film to win one of the industry’s most hallowed prizes, it is also the first best picture winner to zoom in on the societal impacts of the climate crisis.
Now joining us to talk about it is Dr. Min Song who wrote a piece for the Chicago Review of Books titled, Climate Change in the Film Parasite: An Ecological Look at Bong Joon-Ho’s new film. Dr. Song is a professor in the English department at Boston College. He also directs the school’s Asian American studies program. He’s the former editor of the Journal of Asian American Studies, and he’s the author of the forthcoming book titled Climate Lyricism. Thank you for joining us, Dr. Song.
MIN SONG: Thank you for having me.
KIM BROWN: So again, if you’re watching: spoiler alert. Now that said, Dr. Song, do us a favor and summarize your piece for us and any thinking that you’ve done on the topic since because, how and why is Parasite a film about the climate crisis?
MIN SONG: Okay, so it never actually mentions climate change or global warming anywhere in the film, but it does if you’re paying attention for it, really come across very strongly. It starts really about halfway through the film. It carefully sets up the story where these very poor working class people find a way to get jobs working for this very wealthy family. Halfway through the film, the wealthy family go away on a camping vacation, and this poor family, the Kim’s, get to just take it easy and kind of celebrate what they have and they’ve just kind of camped out in the house.
Of course, this huge rain happens at this point, and this is where I think climate change really starts to figure in. Not so much saying, here’s an example of climate change as much as, here’s an effect of what happens when the weather gets really extreme. The wealthy people have to come back from their camping trip because they’re almost washed away. And for them, it’s just a minor annoyance. But for this family who have to scramble to escape, there’s this really, I think amazing dramatic scene.
MIN SONG: It’s such a dramatic moment in the film to see the difference between these very wealthy people who live on top of a hill for whom this unusually extreme weather is just an annoyance, and this working class family who loses everything and ends up in a gymnasium that’s made into a kind of temporary shelter. In that way, I think the film does just a really brilliant job of traumatizing for viewers how the effects of extreme weather is being lived right now. I don’t mean in the future, but I mean right now. All over the world in low lying areas where poor people live, they live in very similar circumstances. Extreme weather, not even like a hurricane but just a heavy downpour can be ruinous for people who live in these areas.
KIM BROWN: Clearly the climate crisis is not being felt equally, it’s not being shared equally amongst people of differing classes. In this film, Parasite, class is really integral to the plot of the film. These interconnected issues, how do you think they were conveyed by the director, Joon-Ho?
MIN SONG: I think the film does just a really great job of conveying the sense in which the wealthy people are sheltered, they’re literally living on a hill. The poor people live below, they’re always associated with the ground, the earth. A lot is made about their smell. There’s definitely a sharp class distinction being made. I think there’s two important parts to this film that we need to keep in mind when we’re talking about class. The first part is that the wealthy family are not evil characters. They aren’t going out of their way to mistreat their workers, and in fact they treat their workers as well as one could in those situations. It’s clear that they pay them very well and they take care of them. Though they boss them around. And basically, they’re expected to be there and be invisible. They also do say sort of obnoxious things about their smell later in the film.
But the people themselves aren’t notably evil characters. They’re just really normal, ordinary kind of people. And in some ways, the problem that the wealthy family have in the film is that they’re ordinary and they really want to believe that they are more than that, that they are extraordinary people. The mother is desperate to believe, for instance, that her son has artistic talent or that her daughter is going to be a really stellar student, and it’s clear throughout the film that the son probably doesn’t have a whole lot of artistic skill, and that the daughter isn’t going to be a great student. The other thing that the film does with class that’s really interesting is that in order for the poor family to get the positions that they get in this wealthy household, they have to push out another woman who’s working there as a maid.
The film becomes also a conflict between working class people. One of the challenges for the characters in the film is not so much overcoming the resistance of the wealthy people in terms of giving them or valuing their labor properly, as much as it is also about the difficulties of creating solidarity within working class people. They are fighting each other for what are really scraps or really menial jobs. And so, the film is also about the incredible difficulty of people who are in very similar socioeconomic positions, finding solidarity with one another. More often than not in the film, what’s shown is that they are in fierce competition and constantly undermining.
KIM BROWN: Dr. Song, there’s also some Native American imagery at the center of many key scenes in the movie. What did you make of that in a film mostly about South Korea? What do you think Parasite is conveying there with regards to the United States and its Indigenous population?
MIN SONG: That’s a really great question, and I’ve been mulling it since I’ve seen the film. I’ve been trying to figure out what the Native American imagery is doing. On the one hand, I think it’s extremely important to be careful about such imagery. It just gets so abused. Native American headdresses and figures get used as ornaments all the time in I think extremely troubling ways. The film may be doing that, and it’s certainly something to keep in mind when we’re watching the film and really thinking about what the imagery means. I don’t want to at all suggest that we should dismiss that possibility. My own sense of the film was that it really wanted to create that it’s meant to show something about the wealthy family, that they are oblivious to how offensive that that use of Indian headdresses and tomahawks and teepees are. That they see that as just a kind of fun affectation, or just entertainment. They are oblivious to the controversy around it.
So if that’s the point of the film, I think it’s a really extraordinary thing that it’s meant for a Korean audience first, and that a Korean audience then is being expected to understand how messed up the Native American imagery is and that they’re supposed to understand that this does not say nice things about the wealthy family, that they are people who don’t understand or insensitive to these kinds of issues. And if that’s the case, I think it’s actually quite an extraordinary move in the film in the ways in which it assumes its audience knows this stuff and is sophisticated about understanding the face of Native Americans and US racial politics.
KIM BROWN: Dr. Song, you teach classes on climate change in literature, but it’s also becoming increasingly popular as a film topic. Paul Schrader’s recent film, First Reformed, nominated for best original screenplay in 2019, it comes to mind. Talk to us about the importance of pop culture books and film in particular in conveying the urgency of the climate crisis in a way that reaches new audiences.
MIN SONG: Yeah. I think it’s obviously important. The ways in which it’s important though I think really needs to be thought carefully about. On the one hand, we do have a lot of very popular narratives in TV shows, and movies, and novels, and comic books even that show people living under extreme weather conditions where their climate has changed. But it’s often in places far away like on another planet or in some future place, like a apocalyptic narrative. Sometimes it’s caused by things like a meteorite or the sun inexplicably expanding and heating up. There’s all sorts of weird reasons why the climate changes in these films, and they’re always seen as kind of fantastical moments. So we are quite comfortable actually with depictions of our planet or our human inhabited planet becoming uninhabitable and then people struggling to survive on that planet.
That’s a actually very, very familiar story. But there’s always, what makes it entertainment in some way is it’s so far away from us and so distance. So what’s interesting about a newer wave of stories of films and movies and so on, or films and novels and so on, is the ways in which the setting is not far away but it’s actually very close and it’s set in the present, not in the far future. Those kinds of things are happening all around a very familiar landscape, which looks a lot like our own. I think that’s actually a really important move for narratives about climate change to make to show how people are struggling to survive in a world that’s already changing around them, where extreme weather events are becoming more common, where there are droughts and fires, and that fiction in some ways is already reflecting a landscape that is our landscape.
Those are the kinds of narratives I think we need more of, and we’re starting to get them. In some ways what’s happened I think though, is that narratives have kind of lagged behind what’s actually happening in the world around us. It’s been true for a long time. At least in my memory I think that one extreme weather event that really sticks out to me is Hurricane Katrina. I remember very vividly watching it on TV and thinking, wow, this is like a movie. But movies themselves haven’t really been able to show how those events are connected to climate change and how people are living that kind of reality until more recently. I think that’s maybe a reflection of that lag that’s happening in literature.
KIM BROWN: We’ve been speaking with Dr. Min Song, who is a professor in the English department at Boston College. He also directs the school’s Asian American studies program. He’s working on a new book titled Climate Lyricism. Dr. Song, we do appreciate your time today. Thank you so much.
MIN SONG: Thank you.
KIM BROWN: And thank you for watching The Real News.
Studio: Adam Coley, Taylor Hebden
Production: Genevieve Montinar, Taylor Hebden, Steve Horn, Andrew Corkery
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therealnews--2020-02-13--From the Streets to the Halls

From the Streets to the Halls

Join Movement School, the Society for Ethical Culture, and Sunrise Movement for a panel discussion on young activist leaders moving into electoral politics, in both the US and Chile. We will look at the opportunities and challenges facing young activist leaders as well as their movements, particularly focusing on the upcoming constitutional referendum in Chile and the 2020 elections in the US.
With panelists:
– Congressman Giorgio Jackson Diputado, former student activist leader and Revolución Democrática Santiago
– Charlotte Alter, TIME journalist and author of upcoming book ‘The Ones We’ve Been Waiting For’
– Waleed Shahid, Justice Democrats‘ spokesperson, MSNBC commentator, and former Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez staffer
Moderated by Sarah Jones of New York Magazine
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therealnews--2020-02-13--Trump’s War Budget Slashes Support for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Marc Steiner : Welcome to The Real News .
I ’ m Marc Steiner .
Good to have you all with us .
Trump announced a $ 4.8 trillion budget for the fiscal year starting October the 1st .
It is a budget that only marginally increases spending for the military because they don ’ t have to , by a lot , because he and Congress did that last July .
But it does increase Homeland Security and gets his wal , while slashing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , Medicaid .
Even though he promised otherwise in his State of the Union speech , his budget attacks and cuts Medicare and Social Security .
Donald Trump : We will always protect your Medicare , and we will always protect your Social Security , always .
Marc Steiner : On top of that , deficit spending despite his promises , soars adding $ 1.9 trillion to our deficits over 10 years .
Deficits not only because of increased spending , but because he slashed taxes for the wealthy , and in a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Less revenue or military spending equals deficits without lifting the lives of our fellow citizens .
We ’ re joined by Alex Lawson , Executive Director of Social Security Works .
Alex , welcome .
Good to have you with us .
Alex Lawson : Thanks for having me .
Marc Steiner : And of course , Bill Black is an associate professor of economics and law at the University of Missouri , Kansas City .
He ’ s a white-collar criminologist , former financial regulator , and author of one of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ all time , The Best Way To Rob A Bank Is To Own One , and of course , a regular contributor here at Real News .
Bill , welcome back .
Marc Steiner : Let ’ s just begin to talk a bit and throw this to you first Bill .
It ’ s just , I really want to explain something here .
You and I in the past have talked about deficits , right ?
Marc Steiner : Let ’ s listen to , to your friend Donald Trump for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and debt and what they really mean .
Donald Trump : You know , I ’ m the King of debt .
I understand debt better than probably anybody on the … It ’ s literally first grade business .
It ’ s so simple .
Hundreds of billions of dollars of money , and let ’ s call it tax money could come from other countries when we stop them from ripping us off .
So , you wouldn ’ t have to play around with Medicaid and Medicare and things that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ hearts .
If you look at some of these agencies , how big and fat they are , you can cut and have them run better than they ’ re running right now .
When I heard we were going to Iraq , somebody said , “ Oh , we ’ re going to the oil.
” I said , “ Huh , that makes sense.
” That ’ s smart .
$ 15 trillion .
That does a lot to solve our deficit problem , doesn ’ t it ?
I ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I ’ d like to- Speaker 5 : We got a lot of it .
Donald Trump : Look at a lot of this and pay interest .
Speaker 5 : Well , we got a lot of it .
Donald Trump : We dim and we ’ re going to start reducing costs now that we took care of our military .
Marc Steiner : That ’ s Donald Trump trying to explain deficits and debts over the last nine years , Bill .
Talk a bit about , I mean one @ @ @ @ @ @ @ about over the time together is that you don ’ t necessarily see deficits as a bad thing , but talk about the comparison between which you ’ re talking about were deficits and what he ’ s doing .
Bill Black : All right .
The thing that ’ s consistent in all of those vignettes is that Trump knows absolutely nothing about business , absolutely nothing about economics , absolutely nothing about deficits .
He was mushing together a whole bunch of different things .
He knows a little bit about @ @ @ @ @ @ @ tremendous amounts of money and he stiffs them .
He stiffs the banks .
He stiffs the workers , et cetera , et cetera .
He files for bankruptcy , and eventually the bankers cut you off in those circumstances if you don ’ t pay your debt , and that ’ s why we ’ ve done series in the past that the only entity that will loan to him still is arguably the most corrupt bank in the world , Deutsche Bank .
That ’ s his aspect of finances .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ things , including trade that have nothing to do with the deficits , in terms of budget .
Then he goes through this idea , hey , if we just stole other people ’ s property , right , then we ’ d have a lot more property and we ’ d be richer .
We steal their oil , except that A , violates all the rules of war and B , people tend to fight back and you end up spending billions , indeed trillions of dollars and losing hundreds of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ all the stupidity , the lack of care about humans , unwillingness to read a briefing paper if it ’ s longer than literally one paragraph .
What is different is federal deficits .
When you have a sovereign currency like the United States , have with a broad range , not very much to do with producing inflation .
We ’ ve seen that of course .
Trump has run very , very large deficits .
Unemployment has been , in fact , at historically low levels and inflation hasn ’ t @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Federal Reserve Watts says makes the economy work better .
So , the inflation isn ’ t the problem .
The deficit per se isn ’ t the problem .
The problem is twofold .
One , Trump doesn ’ t spend things where we should be spending things , like on helping poor people , like on building infrastructure , like on dealing with climate disruption and such .
He does spend money stupidly , on things like his wall and such .
That isn ’ t a deficit question .
That @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ t afford to do dumb things with real resources .
When we create his wall , we absolutely waste resources and that ’ s a dumb thing that we should stop .
Marc Steiner : When you look at this , and Alex let me bring you in here .
I mean when you look at this , what he just did here , increasing military spending by just 0.3 % to $ 740.5 billion , while lowering the non-defense budget by 5 % to $ 590 billion .
The interesting part @ @ @ @ @ @ @ does this and makes this horrible slashing of things , is that , and we ’ ll get into that in a moment , is that what we forget about , is that last July we increased the military budget more than it has been since the Vietnam and Korean war .
The Democrats signed on to that because they said he wasn ’ t going to cut social services .
He wasn ’ t going to cut these programs and it wasn ’ t going to cut social security .
But in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s done .
They got hoodwinked into an old budget to increase military spending .
Now they ’ re stuck with this new budget .
I mean , there ’ s a history of why this is happening this way as well , that I think is important to remember .
Give us your perception of this .
Alex Lawson : I think that the president ’ s budget , which is a statement of his values , is really clear .
It ’ s pandering to defense contractors and Wall Street billionaires @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Medicaid , almost $ 1 trillion in cuts to Medicaid , the largest provider of longterm care in this country .
It cuts tens of billions of dollars out of Social Security , around three quarters of $ 1 trillion out of Medicare .
The list of programs that have cuts that would be existential , goes on and on .
Those are all aimed at satisfying his two criteria or two-pronged criteria .
They have to be both stupid and cruel .
Though , it has to be cruel in that it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ But it has to be stupid because supposedly it has something to do with the deficit .
But all of these cuts are penny wise , pound foolish .
They would actually cost way more money in the long run or in social securities case , have absolutely nothing to do with the deficit .
What we ’ re looking at is why the congressional Democrats ever bargain in good faith with the congressional Republicans is beyond me .
But I wouldn ’ t say that the president ’ s budget is separate @ @ @ @ @ @ @ But it definitely shows you exactly where the Republican Party ’ s vision is .
It ’ s why Donald Trump goes out of his way to lie about what he actually proposes .
In the days before releasing it , he says he ’ s not going to cut Social Security and Medicare as you noted .
But he does exactly that .
Marc Steiner : This is what he had to say at Davos .
Speaker 7 : Entitlements ever be on your plate ?
Donald Trump : At some point @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be toward the end of the year .
The growth is going to be incredible , and at the right time we will take a look at that .
You know that ’ s actually the easiest of all things , if you look because it ’ s such a [ crosstalk 00:08:53 ] .
Speaker 7 : But you ’ re willing to do some of the things that you said you wouldn ’ t do in the past though in terms of Medicare .
Donald Trump : We ’ re got @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that we never had .
I mean we never had growth like- Marc Steiner : Such a disingenuous human being at best .
I mean , when we say that the … That just cues me , ask you both this question is what you just said Alex , but when we say that what happened last July , I mean it seems to me in many ways the Democrats were , some of them , a lot of most progressive Democrats were complicit in this because they thought they had a deal @ @ @ @ @ @ @ money for the military , which they shouldn ’ t have done the first place , many people would argue , as long as you don ’ t cut this .
I mean , they were set up and now we are facing , this battle is going to take place in the midst of an election , where I could see them shutting down government , other things happening to battle over this budget .
I mean this budget is going to play out in 2020 , which is going to be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Who wants to go ?
Bill , you want to jump in this first and go to Alex ?
Bill Black : Okay , so first it ’ s of course a reminder of why appeasement strategies when you ’ re dealing with dishonest , awful , evil people never work .
As Churchill said , “ The idea is you feed the crocodile other people , hoping that you know that he ’ ll get too full and won ’ t eat you at the end of the process.
” Well guess @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to you eventually in these circumstances .
So yes , the whole Biden thing about I can work with people is just a soccer strategy in these circumstances when people aren ’ t honest that you ’ re bargaining with .
Then they take what you give the first time and they take the second time .
They do .
From their view , you ’ re not reasonable .
You ’ re a chump , and they love to take advantage of chumps .
Second point , this is a political gift @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Marc Steiner : If they take it .
Bill Black : If they take it , right , and then run with it because this is horrific stuff , absolutely indefensible .
The Democrats need to be talking about this every day .
But the third thing is it really displays Trump ’ s true base , right ?
The base that the people usually talk about are the faces at his MAGA rallies , right ?
They ’ re the faces of people who are typically don ’ t have all that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and they ’ re screaming , ranting and raving .
That is a base and it ’ s critical to his ability to win elections .
But the real base of Donald Trump is the absolute sleaziest CEOs in the world , primarily Americans , but not exclusively Americans .
That ’ s why the tax cut was his top priority , and why the tax cut was unbelievably weighted towards the wealthiest people .
There ’ s an interesting Pew study of the really , really rich people , and they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ The deficits really , supposedly drive them crazy .
But what really , really drive them crazy is the idea of anybody poor getting money , right ?
They hate the entitlement programs and such .
They in particular , they hate Medicaid because that goes to poorer people and food stamps because that goes to poorer people and such .
Therefore , it is no coincidence they , after first doing the massive payoff to that base , the kleptocratic wealthy , Trump is then following through with their greatest desires , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ poor but also taking all the protections away , like the EPA .
So , it ’ s no surprise that he ’ s absolutely destroying the ability of the EPA , not just now , but for all time , is his goal , to protect the public .
Marc Steiner : When you saw that the EPA and Alex , when you talked about the EPA , they cut the EPA by 26.5 % , Health and Human Services by 9 % , education 8 % , interior 13.4 % , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he wants to .
House and Urban Development goes down by 15.2 % .
State Department and AID gets slashed to the bone with 22 % .
What ’ s the response to this and what happens to Social Security , which you spend your life working on , your work working on ?
What is the political response ?
Alex Lawson : I think that there is a key player in this who is incredibly important and also incredibly dishonest .
That ’ s the corporate media .
I actually will say @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Donald Trump is targeting Social Security and Medicare so squarely , and he needs seniors to win elections .
Republicans need seniors to win elections , and his policies are disastrous for seniors .
But if the media is just telling , repeating Donald Trump ’ s lies , then the people will not know actually what he ’ s doing .
This is not theoretical .
Donald Trump tweeted , my budget is not going to cut Social Security and Medicare , basically .
He just stated that , and he released @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the AP reported it in the headline and in the tweet as his budget basically left Social Security and Medicare alone .
In the story it details the cuts , but you do a quick new search right now , and guess what they actually copied as it went around the country ?
The headline .
It seems like the media is reporting basically , press releases , except now Donald Trump just tweets them directly to them .
Instead of taking five minutes to look at the tables in the back and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Trump is actually doing .
So , without independent media voices getting the truth out there , unfortunately too many of the American people don ’ t actually know that Donald Trump is literally right now , in implementing a Social Security rule alongside his budget , alongside the Medicaid block granting , reaching his hand into our pockets and stealing our earned benefits , all for the benefit of his billionaire paymasters on Wall Street , who want the money .
They ’ re greedy .
They want the money .
But @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is a bit of a sadism and it as well .
They actually want these policies to be cruel .
The cruelty is part of the point of them .
Marc Steiner : So just quickly , Alex talk a bit about exactly what he ’ s done to Social Security and Medicare .
Alex Lawson : In the assault on both Social Security and Medicare is actually on multiple fronts and Medicaid as well .
Medicaid is the largest provider of longterm care in this country .
For millions of Americans it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a senior in a nursing home , they don ’ t care if it ’ s Medicaid paying for it or if it ’ s Medicare or which piece the different program covers .
Medicaid covers this .
Medicare covers that .
If you cut $ 1 trillion out of Medicaid and then you , a senior gets thrown out of their nursing home , they don ’ t care if it ’ s one program or the other .
It ’ s the totality of the attacks on the entire system .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ seeing a bunch of different ways of going at it .
The union-busting inside to decimate the workforce , at the same time as continually slashing the budget , which is what we see in the budget , as well as restricting … They actually put in new rules , which we know exactly what they do because Ronald Reagan also put them in , and it ’ s to create a bureaucracy that ’ s so complex that people can ’ t access their benefits and they lose them .
People who @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
It ’ s a full-fledged assault on our Social Security system .
Medicaid , it ’ s just a total destruction of it .
Medicare , they ’ re trying to cut it to the bone and actually transfer people from the traditional Medicare side over to what are called Medicare Advantage , which are just private insurance companies .
So , across the entire system , what you see is a push to move people from systems that work , into systems that profit a tiny sliver of billionaires on Wall @ @ @ @ @ @ @ prioritize something like Social Security , if they don ’ t think that ’ s politically feasible , they just try to destroy the system , so that people lose faith in it , and actually will allow a political change that cuts benefits or decimates the system even further .
Marc Steiner : I ’ m going to conclude with this .
I mean , it ’ s when you even look at the Wall Street Journal , they wrote about this today saying that the proposals cut $ 4.4 Trillion over @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from mandatory spending programs , but they can ramp up the money , almost $ 1.5 trillion over the next two years to push up the Pentagon and build the wall and do the rest .
In those customers , people forget is also Veterans Administration ’ s inside those cuts .
What is the political response ?
Let ’ s talk a bit about that just before we have to close .
Bill , I ’ ll let you start .
I mean because this is , the Democrats seem to me @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the establishment does to respond and not respond , a lot of these things just to go when they ’ ve been given a golden age to talk to the American people with .
Bill Black : Right , Right now there is no real democratic leader .
You could see during some of the impeachment stuff , when you actually had someone who had a leadership position and an opportunity to think strategically and think about how to make a presentation to the public .
They ’ re actually not as horrific @ @ @ @ @ @ @ them in these five minute increments at hearings , where it ’ s often farcical .
This is something that the billionaires and millionaires , instead of the ads that they ’ re doing can really hammer on if they want to be useful .
They can go through and present those tables that he was just talking about and show , Hey , he said , there are no cuts here .
This is where the cuts actually are , and here ’ s what Medicaid is and this is what it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
But not just tables .
Do what Trump did with that ad in the Superbowl .
One black woman- Marc Steiner : Oh yes , that ad .
Bill Black : [ crosstalk 00:19:57 ] type of thing .
We as human beings , we respond to narrative , to stories , to empathy about individuals .
Think of it that way .
Think of the , there are literally millions of people , actually there are literally tens of millions of people that will suffer really severe harm .
Tell the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that is so critical what you just said to learn that lesson .
Alex , a very quick thought before we finish .
Alex Lawson : I just would say that if you want to see , I think really perfect messaging on this , if you look at the ads that Bernie Sanders was running in Iowa , right at the end of Iowa , that we ’ re teeing up Trump on Social Security and Medicare , and counter posing Bernie Sanders , decades-long championing of these programs , not just @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the programs against Donald Trump ’ s attacks on these programs .
That is a political message that wins and is breaking through , and is easy for the American people to see whose side , which politician is on .
Donald Trump wants to cut your Social Security .
Bernie Sanders wants to expand your social security .
That kind of messaging breaks through .
Bill Black : I also want to see ads with US soldiers , and the aid that is critical to them as well , a counterpunch to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Well , let ’ s say that they listened to us .
Alex Lawson , Bill Black .
Thank you both so much .
We ’ ll pick up on this together again soon .
Appreciate your time .
Marc Steiner : Folks , we will stay on this .
Our future ’ s at stake .
I ’ m Marc Steiner for the Real News Network .
Thank you for joining us .
Take care .

Trump promised he would not touch Social Security and Medicare. He lied. Now we have deficit spending with no social benefits and Democrats fooled into a compromise that allowed the military budget to soar.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Marc Steiner: Welcome to The Real News. I’m Marc Steiner. Good to have you all with us. Trump announced a $4.8 trillion budget for the fiscal year starting October the 1st. It is a budget that only marginally increases spending for the military because they don’t have to, by a lot, because he and Congress did that last July. But it does increase Homeland Security and gets his wal, while slashing programs like children’s health insurance, Medicaid. Even though he promised otherwise in his State of the Union speech, his budget attacks and cuts Medicare and Social Security.
Donald Trump: We will always protect your Medicare, and we will always protect your Social Security, always.
Marc Steiner: On top of that, deficit spending despite his promises, soars adding $1.9 trillion to our deficits over 10 years. Deficits not only because of increased spending, but because he slashed taxes for the wealthy, and in a bone to the voters, the middle-class. Less revenue or military spending equals deficits without lifting the lives of our fellow citizens. We’re joined by Alex Lawson, Executive Director of Social Security Works. Alex, welcome. Good to have you with us.
Alex Lawson: Thanks for having me.
Marc Steiner: And of course, Bill Black is an associate professor of economics and law at the University of Missouri, Kansas City. He’s a white-collar criminologist, former financial regulator, and author of one of my favorite titles, law books of all time, The Best Way To Rob A Bank Is To Own One, and of course, a regular contributor here at Real News. Bill, welcome back.
Bill Black: Thank you.
Marc Steiner: Let’s just begin to talk a bit and throw this to you first Bill. It’s just, I really want to explain something here. You and I in the past have talked about deficits, right?
Bill Black: Right.
Marc Steiner: Let’s listen to, to your friend Donald Trump for just a moment and talk about deficits and debt and what they really mean.
Donald Trump: You know, I’m the King of debt. I understand debt better than probably anybody on the … It’s literally first grade business. It’s so simple. Hundreds of billions of dollars of money, and let’s call it tax money could come from other countries when we stop them from ripping us off. So, you wouldn’t have to play around with Medicaid and Medicare and things that really are dear to people’s hearts. If you look at some of these agencies, how big and fat they are, you can cut and have them run better than they’re running right now. When I heard we were going to Iraq, somebody said, “Oh, we’re going to the oil.” I said, “Huh, that makes sense.” That’s smart. $15 trillion. That does a lot to solve our deficit problem, doesn’t it? I’d like to pay off debt. I’d like to-
Speaker 5: We got a lot of it.
Donald Trump: Look at a lot of this and pay interest.
Speaker 5: Well, we got a lot of it.
Donald Trump: We dim and we’re going to start reducing costs now that we took care of our military.
Marc Steiner: That’s Donald Trump trying to explain deficits and debts over the last nine years, Bill. Talk a bit about, I mean one of the things we’ve talked about over the time together is that you don’t necessarily see deficits as a bad thing, but talk about the comparison between which you’re talking about were deficits and what he’s doing.
Bill Black: All right. The thing that’s consistent in all of those vignettes is that Trump knows absolutely nothing about business, absolutely nothing about economics, absolutely nothing about deficits. He was mushing together a whole bunch of different things. He knows a little bit about owing money to people because he owes tremendous amounts of money and he stiffs them. He stiffs the banks. He stiffs the workers, et cetera, et cetera. He files for bankruptcy, and eventually the bankers cut you off in those circumstances if you don’t pay your debt, and that’s why we’ve done series in the past that the only entity that will loan to him still is arguably the most corrupt bank in the world, Deutsche Bank. That’s his aspect of finances. Then he goes through a bunch of things, including trade that have nothing to do with the deficits, in terms of budget. Then he goes through this idea, hey, if we just stole other people’s property, right, then we’d have a lot more property and we’d be richer.
We steal their oil, except that A, violates all the rules of war and B, people tend to fight back and you end up spending billions, indeed trillions of dollars and losing hundreds of thousands of lives. This is just all the stupidity, the lack of care about humans, unwillingness to read a briefing paper if it’s longer than literally one paragraph. What is different is federal deficits. When you have a sovereign currency like the United States, have with a broad range, not very much to do with producing inflation. We’ve seen that of course. Trump has run very, very large deficits. Unemployment has been, in fact, at historically low levels and inflation hasn’t even reached the tiny amount that the Federal Reserve Watts says makes the economy work better. So, the inflation isn’t the problem. The deficit per se isn’t the problem.
The problem is twofold. One, Trump doesn’t spend things where we should be spending things, like on helping poor people, like on building infrastructure, like on dealing with climate disruption and such. He does spend money stupidly, on things like his wall and such. That isn’t a deficit question. That is a stupidity question. We can’t afford to do dumb things with real resources. When we create his wall, we absolutely waste resources and that’s a dumb thing that we should stop.
Marc Steiner: When you look at this, and Alex let me bring you in here. I mean when you look at this, what he just did here, increasing military spending by just 0.3% to $740.5 billion, while lowering the non-defense budget by 5% to $590 billion. The interesting part here to me is that when he does this and makes this horrible slashing of things, is that, and we’ll get into that in a moment, is that what we forget about, is that last July we increased the military budget more than it has been since the Vietnam and Korean war. The Democrats signed on to that because they said he wasn’t going to cut social services. He wasn’t going to cut these programs and it wasn’t going to cut social security. But in fact that’s what he’s done. They got hoodwinked into an old budget to increase military spending. Now they’re stuck with this new budget. I mean, there’s a history of why this is happening this way as well, that I think is important to remember. Give us your perception of this.
Alex Lawson: I think that the president’s budget, which is a statement of his values, is really clear. It’s pandering to defense contractors and Wall Street billionaires. It has, it basically decimates Medicaid, almost $1 trillion in cuts to Medicaid, the largest provider of longterm care in this country. It cuts tens of billions of dollars out of Social Security, around three quarters of $1 trillion out of Medicare. The list of programs that have cuts that would be existential, goes on and on. Those are all aimed at satisfying his two criteria or two-pronged criteria. They have to be both stupid and cruel. Though, it has to be cruel in that it really hurts people.
Marc Steiner: Right.
Alex Lawson: But it has to be stupid because supposedly it has something to do with the deficit. But all of these cuts are penny wise, pound foolish. They would actually cost way more money in the long run or in social securities case, have absolutely nothing to do with the deficit. What we’re looking at is why the congressional Democrats ever bargain in good faith with the congressional Republicans is beyond me. But I wouldn’t say that the president’s budget is separate from that conversation in many respects. But it definitely shows you exactly where the Republican Party’s vision is. It’s why Donald Trump goes out of his way to lie about what he actually proposes. In the days before releasing it, he says he’s not going to cut Social Security and Medicare as you noted. But he does exactly that.
Marc Steiner: This is what he had to say at Davos.
Speaker 7: Entitlements ever be on your plate?
Donald Trump: At some point they will be. It’ll be toward the end of the year. The growth is going to be incredible, and at the right time we will take a look at that. You know that’s actually the easiest of all things, if you look because it’s such a [crosstalk 00:08:53].
Speaker 7: But you’re willing to do some of the things that you said you wouldn’t do in the past though in terms of Medicare.
Donald Trump: We’re got to look. We also have assets that we never had. I mean we never had growth like-
Marc Steiner: Such a disingenuous human being at best. I mean, when we say that the … That just cues me, ask you both this question is what you just said Alex, but when we say that what happened last July, I mean it seems to me in many ways the Democrats were, some of them, a lot of most progressive Democrats were complicit in this because they thought they had a deal, that will give you all this money for the military, which they shouldn’t have done the first place, many people would argue, as long as you don’t cut this. I mean, they were set up and now we are facing, this battle is going to take place in the midst of an election, where I could see them shutting down government, other things happening to battle over this budget. I mean this budget is going to play out in 2020, which is going to be a very tense and tight election. Who wants to go? Bill, you want to jump in this first and go to Alex?
Bill Black: Okay, so first it’s of course a reminder of why appeasement strategies when you’re dealing with dishonest, awful, evil people never work. As Churchill said, “The idea is you feed the crocodile other people, hoping that you know that he’ll get too full and won’t eat you at the end of the process.” Well guess what? He’ll get around to you eventually in these circumstances. So yes, the whole Biden thing about I can work with people is just a soccer strategy in these circumstances when people aren’t honest that you’re bargaining with. Then they take what you give the first time and they take the second time. They do. From their view, you’re not reasonable. You’re a chump, and they love to take advantage of chumps. Second point, this is a political gift to Democrats if they take it.
Marc Steiner: If they take it.
Bill Black: If they take it, right, and then run with it because this is horrific stuff, absolutely indefensible. The Democrats need to be talking about this every day. But the third thing is it really displays Trump’s true base, right? The base that the people usually talk about are the faces at his MAGA rallies, right? They’re the faces of people who are typically don’t have all that much money, all that much education, and they’re screaming, ranting and raving. That is a base and it’s critical to his ability to win elections. But the real base of Donald Trump is the absolute sleaziest CEOs in the world, primarily Americans, but not exclusively Americans. That’s why the tax cut was his top priority, and why the tax cut was unbelievably weighted towards the wealthiest people. There’s an interesting Pew study of the really, really rich people, and they’re different than normal people. The deficits really, supposedly drive them crazy.
But what really, really drive them crazy is the idea of anybody poor getting money, right? They hate the entitlement programs and such. They in particular, they hate Medicaid because that goes to poorer people and food stamps because that goes to poorer people and such. Therefore, it is no coincidence they, after first doing the massive payoff to that base, the kleptocratic wealthy, Trump is then following through with their greatest desires, which is a combination of screwing the poor but also taking all the protections away, like the EPA. So, it’s no surprise that he’s absolutely destroying the ability of the EPA, not just now, but for all time, is his goal, to protect the public.
Marc Steiner: When you saw that the EPA and Alex, when you talked about the EPA, they cut the EPA by 26.5%, Health and Human Services by 9%, education 8%, interior 13.4%, so he can drill more oil wherever he wants to. House and Urban Development goes down by 15.2%. State Department and AID gets slashed to the bone with 22%. What’s the response to this and what happens to Social Security, which you spend your life working on, your work working on? What is the political response?
Alex Lawson: I think that there is a key player in this who is incredibly important and also incredibly dishonest. That’s the corporate media. I actually will say that many Democrats take the fact that Donald Trump is targeting Social Security and Medicare so squarely, and he needs seniors to win elections. Republicans need seniors to win elections, and his policies are disastrous for seniors. But if the media is just telling, repeating Donald Trump’s lies, then the people will not know actually what he’s doing. This is not theoretical. Donald Trump tweeted, my budget is not going to cut Social Security and Medicare, basically. He just stated that, and he released a budget that decimates those programs and the AP reported it in the headline and in the tweet as his budget basically left Social Security and Medicare alone. In the story it details the cuts, but you do a quick new search right now, and guess what they actually copied as it went around the country? The headline.
It seems like the media is reporting basically, press releases, except now Donald Trump just tweets them directly to them. Instead of taking five minutes to look at the tables in the back and actually tell the American people what Donald Trump is actually doing. So, without independent media voices getting the truth out there, unfortunately too many of the American people don’t actually know that Donald Trump is literally right now, in implementing a Social Security rule alongside his budget, alongside the Medicaid block granting, reaching his hand into our pockets and stealing our earned benefits, all for the benefit of his billionaire paymasters on Wall Street, who want the money. They’re greedy. They want the money. But I also agree with Bill that there is a bit of a sadism and it as well. They actually want these policies to be cruel. The cruelty is part of the point of them.
Marc Steiner: So just quickly, Alex talk a bit about exactly what he’s done to Social Security and Medicare.
Alex Lawson: In the assault on both Social Security and Medicare is actually on multiple fronts and Medicaid as well. Medicaid is the largest provider of longterm care in this country. For millions of Americans it actually doesn’t matter. For a senior in a nursing home, they don’t care if it’s Medicaid paying for it or if it’s Medicare or which piece the different program covers. Medicaid covers this. Medicare covers that. If you cut $1 trillion out of Medicaid and then you, a senior gets thrown out of their nursing home, they don’t care if it’s one program or the other. It’s the totality of the attacks on the entire system. With Social Security, you’re seeing a bunch of different ways of going at it.
The union-busting inside to decimate the workforce, at the same time as continually slashing the budget, which is what we see in the budget, as well as restricting … They actually put in new rules, which we know exactly what they do because Ronald Reagan also put them in, and it’s to create a bureaucracy that’s so complex that people can’t access their benefits and they lose them. People who are currently have the benefits lose those. It’s a full-fledged assault on our Social Security system. Medicaid, it’s just a total destruction of it. Medicare, they’re trying to cut it to the bone and actually transfer people from the traditional Medicare side over to what are called Medicare Advantage, which are just private insurance companies. So, across the entire system, what you see is a push to move people from systems that work, into systems that profit a tiny sliver of billionaires on Wall Street.
If they can’t prioritize something like Social Security, if they don’t think that’s politically feasible, they just try to destroy the system, so that people lose faith in it, and actually will allow a political change that cuts benefits or decimates the system even further.
Marc Steiner: I’m going to conclude with this. I mean, it’s when you even look at the Wall Street Journal, they wrote about this today saying that the proposals cut $4.4 Trillion over a decade. $2 trillion come from mandatory spending programs, but they can ramp up the money, almost $1.5 trillion over the next two years to push up the Pentagon and build the wall and do the rest. In those customers, people forget is also Veterans Administration’s inside those cuts. What is the political response? Let’s talk a bit about that just before we have to close. Bill, I’ll let you start. I mean because this is, the Democrats seem to me often stumble over themselves, at least the establishment does to respond and not respond, a lot of these things just to go when they’ve been given a golden age to talk to the American people with.
Bill Black: Right, Right now there is no real democratic leader. You could see during some of the impeachment stuff, when you actually had someone who had a leadership position and an opportunity to think strategically and think about how to make a presentation to the public. They’re actually not as horrific as they usually are when you see them in these five minute increments at hearings, where it’s often farcical. This is something that the billionaires and millionaires, instead of the ads that they’re doing can really hammer on if they want to be useful. They can go through and present those tables that he was just talking about and show, Hey, he said, there are no cuts here. This is where the cuts actually are, and here’s what Medicaid is and this is what it’s going to be your life. But not just tables. Do what Trump did with that ad in the Superbowl. One black woman-
Marc Steiner: Oh yes, that ad.
Bill Black: [crosstalk 00:19:57] type of thing. We as human beings, we respond to narrative, to stories, to empathy about individuals. Think of it that way. Think of the, there are literally millions of people, actually there are literally tens of millions of people that will suffer really severe harm. Tell the stories.
Marc Steiner: Bill, that is so critical what you just said to learn that lesson. Alex, a very quick thought before we finish.
Alex Lawson: I just would say that if you want to see, I think really perfect messaging on this, if you look at the ads that Bernie Sanders was running in Iowa, right at the end of Iowa, that we’re teeing up Trump on Social Security and Medicare, and counter posing Bernie Sanders, decades-long championing of these programs, not just defending from cuts but working to expand the programs against Donald Trump’s attacks on these programs. That is a political message that wins and is breaking through, and is easy for the American people to see whose side, which politician is on. Donald Trump wants to cut your Social Security. Bernie Sanders wants to expand your social security. That kind of messaging breaks through.
Bill Black: I also want to see ads with US soldiers, and the aid that is critical to them as well, a counterpunch to their gut.
Marc Steiner: Absolutely. Well, let’s say that they listened to us. Alex Lawson, Bill Black. Thank you both so much. We’ll pick up on this together again soon. Appreciate your time.
Bill Black: Thank you.
Alex Lawson: Thanks.
Marc Steiner: Folks, we will stay on this. Our future’s at stake. I’m Marc Steiner for the Real News Network. Thank you for joining us. Take care.
Studio: Bababtunde Ogunfolaju, Adam Coley
Production: Genevieve Montinar, Adam Coley, Andrew Corkery
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