therealnews--2020-06-03--China’s National Security Law Could End Hong Kong’s Autonomy

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Mark Steiner : Welcome to The Real News , I ’ m Mark Steiner .
Good to have you all with us once again .
On Thursday , the Chinese parliament , the National People ’ s Congress , passed the National Security Law , which applies to Hong Kong .
The full details of the law have not been made public , but it includes many acts of dissent , subversion or disloyalty and allows the Chinese security forces to operate freely in Hong @ @ @ @ @ @ @ against this legislation erupted last week as the news of the new law spread .
But the police put down these demonstrations with a really heavy hand , and the legislation proceeded at a lightning speed , seems to be taking over .
US Secretary of State , Mike Pompeo , tweeted that Hong Kong is no longer autonomous .
What does that mean ?
Although he ended the tweet by saying that the US stands with Hong Kong , whatever that means .
The legal significance of his statement could mean that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of Hong Kong will be more difficult with United States .
We ’ re joined now by Kevin Lin .
Once again , joining us , he ’ s an activist and researcher at Hong Kong University .
A member of the Laoson Collective and co-edits the Made in China Journal .
And Kevin , welcome back to The Real News .
It ’ s always good to have you with us .
Mark Steiner : Let me , before we get into kind of the heart of what this means , I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ why it ’ s happening now .
In the midst of this COVID-19 pandemic spreading across the globe and in Hong Kong as well .
And so what ’ s the connection here ?
You have to ask that question first .
I think .
Kevin Lin : Yeah , I think this national security legislation could have been in the work for months now .
It ’ s well to remember that the national People ’ s Congress was delayed for about three months .
It was supposed to have taken to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ because of the pandemic , it was postponed to May .
It could have been in the work for several months .
And we know essentially the Chinese central government has lost confidence in the Hong Kong government ’ s ability to stop the protests or introduce similar legislations , essentially criminalize legitimate political activities as well as serious illegal activities .
This could have been work in the work for them for several months now .
Mark Steiner : Not to stay on this point too long , because there ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Kevin , but some people have been saying that the pro-democracy groups have been calling for quarantines and then some people have argued that this law being legislated so quickly dovetails with that .
Kind of politically good timing for , even though it ’ s been planned for awhile , this moment could really hit it .
It seems to be some people are arguing the timing was just right for the People ’ s Republic of China .
Kevin Lin : Yeah .
That could very well be true .
I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ because of the quarantine and restrictions that the police essentially , it ’ s very , very easy to use the restrictions to disperse the crowds .
That has been really effective in terms of just controlling the protesters .
But I think the timing is definitely a politically calculated one .
Mark Steiner : A lot of countries around the world this moment , including the United States , European Union , in China for promoting its national security law .
But other than saying , disapprove they don ’ t seem @ @ @ @ @ @ @ autonomy of Hong Kong with a freedom of the residents .
How do you explain the fact that pretty much the activist in Hong Kong continue to organize protests against the odds without any real external support ?
Kevin Lin : There ’ s still quite a bit of political autonomy and space right now in Hong Kong to organize a protest .
I think what people are really worried about is this national security legislation is going to take away that freedom almost completely because he essentially , as you said in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to criminalize not just subversion , not successions per se , but perfectly legitimate political actions could also be penalized and criminalized .
Mark Steiner : Do you think that the law of national security is practically the end of this , of the notion of a one country , two systems , that ’ s been an arrangement since Britain turned Hong Kong over the People ’ s Republic of China ?
Are we seeing the beginning of the end here ?
Kevin Lin : Yeah .
I think for many people @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the one country , two system arrangement .
To explain , the , the legislation essentially bypassed the Hong Kong legislature .
Again , because I think the Chinese national government , doesn ’ t think that the Hong Kong government is able to introduce legislation like this , they bypassed the legislature completely .
And that usually is really , really concerning .
But at the same time , this is not the first time national security legislation was attempted .
Back in 2003 , there was a time to introduce such @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And that was defeated because so many people went down to the street and protested against the legislation and it was withdrawn .
I think it ’ s still up in the air , even though it calls for pessimism .
I think there ’ s still a chance that if people are mobilized there ’ s a chance that it could be defeated .
Mark Steiner : I ’ m very curious .
What is the sense of your fellow protestors , of the men and women in the street ?
What @ @ @ @ @ @ @ now ?
And how desperate or hopeful you find the people around you are in these demonstrations and what ’ s happening ?
Give us a sense of what ’ s happening on the ground and how it ’ s seething what ’ s happening .
Kevin Lin : I think you ’ re seeing both .
You ’ re seeing a lot of despair , a lot of desperation because it ’ s one thing to protest against the Hong Kong government , it ’ s quite another thing to be able @ @ @ @ @ @ @ There ’ s a lot of desperation .
A lot of people are talking about emigrating to other countries .
At the same time , I think , that the protests returned straight away right after the announcement .
I think that both are happening .
A lot of people are in despair , but at the same time , a lot of people are also writing against this .
Mark Steiner : Fine , two little quick things here .
How are you feeling personally ?
I know other people around you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the future , and where this can take you , I have family that lives in Hong Kong and it was one of my , I have a nephew there and who is saying , they ’ re all very kind of concerned that this could mean a mass emigration from Hong Kong .
It could mean that because the Chinese government , the People ’ s Republic is such a powerful economy , there ’ s very little the world can do , even if it wanted to .
What about those @ @ @ @ @ @ @ really kind of powerful movements ?
Kevin Lin : Yeah .
I think it ’ s perfectly understandable why many people are considering emigration , although that that ’ s only feasible for a fairly small percentage of people who are wealthy now and have the ways to emigrate to other countries , especially , in a time like this , where countries are closing doors to immigrants .
The majority of people , especially working people are going to be in Hong Kong .
I think that the fight has to be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , moving on from the initial reactions of desperation , I think , I ’ m confident people are going to be able to be organized and push back against the sort of the legislation .
Finally , what do you think that the viewers that are watching this across United States and Canada , across the globe , what should we be looking for ?
What should be our response ?
What should be the governments ’ responses in the places that we live ?
Mark Steiner : Yeah , this is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Kong is part of a bigger battle between US and China .
It ’ s just kind of the latest manifestation of the intensifying rivalry between you guys ’ government and the Chinese government .
As sort of Hong Kong is being sacrificed in this kind of great power rivalry .
And for us , and for people in the States and for leftists in the States , I think , the really the target , the enemy at home is the US government , which is primarily responsible for escalating tensions right @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sort of escalate the tensions with China .
I think that ’ s a primary responsibility is to counter that escalation at home by the Trump administration , by the right wing media , but also by the Biden campaign , which has tried to out do Trump by putting out like an ad , a political campaign ad that says basically , Trump is not tough enough on China .
But at the same time , I think people should also be critical of the Chinese government .
And it will be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ activists in China if we turn a blind eye to the domestic repressions within China .
I think as leftists , as progressives , we need to be critical and opposed to the Chinese state and the US state .
Kevin Lin : You said this very clearly and concisely .
I think that the really important messages to give out to this , given being stuck between both the People ’ s Republic of China and the United States , where the administrations that they have , that this movement that you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of it is left , but it is democratic all the way through .
And it ’ s really different voices trying to be heard .
And I think that gets lost in all of this .
Can get lost in all of this .
That message you just gave , I think it was really important for us to hear .
Kevin Lin , I deeply appreciate you staying up so late to talk with us tonight and being with us today .
We want you to stay safe .
We ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ll keep telling your story as much as we can .
And thank you so much .
And please , as I said , please stay safe as you can .
Kevin Lin : We ’ ve been talking to Kevin Lin , Hong Kong University researcher about what ’ s going on in Hong Kong .
Of course , we ’ re saying all this , talking about this while we won ’ t let it go .
And in this , this COVID-19 please everybody stay safe , stay home .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ Steiner here for The Real News Network .
Take care .

The announced law could establish Chinese security institutions in Hong Kong, ending historically protected freedom around dissent and free speech.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Mark Steiner: Welcome to The Real News, I’m Mark Steiner. Good to have you all with us once again.
On Thursday, the Chinese parliament, the National People’s Congress, passed the National Security Law, which applies to Hong Kong. The full details of the law have not been made public, but it includes many acts of dissent, subversion or disloyalty and allows the Chinese security forces to operate freely in Hong Kong. Mass protest in Hong Kong against this legislation erupted last week as the news of the new law spread. But the police put down these demonstrations with a really heavy hand, and the legislation proceeded at a lightning speed, seems to be taking over. US Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, tweeted that Hong Kong is no longer autonomous. What does that mean? Although he ended the tweet by saying that the US stands with Hong Kong, whatever that means. The legal significance of his statement could mean that trade agreements and visa arrangements for residents of Hong Kong will be more difficult with United States.
We’re joined now by Kevin Lin. Once again, joining us, he’s an activist and researcher at Hong Kong University. A member of the Laoson Collective and co-edits the Made in China Journal. And Kevin, welcome back to The Real News. It’s always good to have you with us.
Kevin Lin: Thank you.
Mark Steiner: Let me, before we get into kind of the heart of what this means, I really want to kind of explore this why it’s happening now. In the midst of this COVID-19 pandemic spreading across the globe and in Hong Kong as well. And so what’s the connection here? You have to ask that question first. I think.
Kevin Lin: Yeah, I think this national security legislation could have been in the work for months now. It’s well to remember that the national People’s Congress was delayed for about three months. It was supposed to have taken to take place back in February, but because of the pandemic, it was postponed to May. It could have been in the work for several months. And we know essentially the Chinese central government has lost confidence in the Hong Kong government’s ability to stop the protests or introduce similar legislations, essentially criminalize legitimate political activities as well as serious illegal activities. This could have been work in the work for them for several months now.
Mark Steiner: Not to stay on this point too long, because there’s too much to talk about here, Kevin, but some people have been saying that the pro-democracy groups have been calling for quarantines and then some people have argued that this law being legislated so quickly dovetails with that. Kind of politically good timing for, even though it’s been planned for awhile, this moment could really hit it. It seems to be some people are arguing the timing was just right for the People’s Republic of China.
Kevin Lin: Yeah. That could very well be true. I think this is a moment where, because of the quarantine and restrictions that the police essentially, it’s very, very easy to use the restrictions to disperse the crowds. That has been really effective in terms of just controlling the protesters. But I think the timing is definitely a politically calculated one.
Mark Steiner: A lot of countries around the world this moment, including the United States, European Union, in China for promoting its national security law. But other than saying, disapprove they don’t seem to have any real strategy to ensure autonomy of Hong Kong with a freedom of the residents. How do you explain the fact that pretty much the activist in Hong Kong continue to organize protests against the odds without any real external support?
Kevin Lin: There’s still quite a bit of political autonomy and space right now in Hong Kong to organize a protest. I think what people are really worried about is this national security legislation is going to take away that freedom almost completely because he essentially, as you said in your introduction, it’s going to criminalize not just subversion, not successions per se, but perfectly legitimate political actions could also be penalized and criminalized.
Mark Steiner: Do you think that the law of national security is practically the end of this, of the notion of a one country, two systems, that’s been an arrangement since Britain turned Hong Kong over the People’s Republic of China? Are we seeing the beginning of the end here?
Kevin Lin: Yeah. I think for many people, this is really the end of the one country, two system arrangement. To explain, the, the legislation essentially bypassed the Hong Kong legislature. Again, because I think the Chinese national government, doesn’t think that the Hong Kong government is able to introduce legislation like this, they bypassed the legislature completely. And that usually is really, really concerning. But at the same time, this is not the first time national security legislation was attempted. Back in 2003, there was a time to introduce such legislation by the Hong Kong government. And that was defeated because so many people went down to the street and protested against the legislation and it was withdrawn. I think it’s still up in the air, even though it calls for pessimism. I think there’s still a chance that if people are mobilized there’s a chance that it could be defeated.
Mark Steiner: I’m very curious. What is the sense of your fellow protestors, of the men and women in the street? What is their sense of where it is now? And how desperate or hopeful you find the people around you are in these demonstrations and what’s happening? Give us a sense of what’s happening on the ground and how it’s seething what’s happening.
Kevin Lin: I think you’re seeing both. You’re seeing a lot of despair, a lot of desperation because it’s one thing to protest against the Hong Kong government, it’s quite another thing to be able to stop the Chinese national government. There’s a lot of desperation. A lot of people are talking about emigrating to other countries. At the same time, I think, that the protests returned straight away right after the announcement. I think that both are happening. A lot of people are in despair, but at the same time, a lot of people are also writing against this.
Mark Steiner: Fine, two little quick things here. How are you feeling personally? I know other people around you in terms of your own safety about the future, and where this can take you, I have family that lives in Hong Kong and it was one of my, I have a nephew there and who is saying, they’re all very kind of concerned that this could mean a mass emigration from Hong Kong. It could mean that because the Chinese government, the People’s Republic is such a powerful economy, there’s very little the world can do, even if it wanted to. What about those two different, very different, but really kind of powerful movements?
Kevin Lin: Yeah. I think it’s perfectly understandable why many people are considering emigration, although that that’s only feasible for a fairly small percentage of people who are wealthy now and have the ways to emigrate to other countries, especially, in a time like this, where countries are closing doors to immigrants. The majority of people, especially working people are going to be in Hong Kong. I think that the fight has to be here. And I think once people, moving on from the initial reactions of desperation, I think, I’m confident people are going to be able to be organized and push back against the sort of the legislation.
Finally, what do you think that the viewers that are watching this across United States and Canada, across the globe, what should we be looking for? What should be our response? What should be the governments’ responses in the places that we live?
Mark Steiner: Yeah, this is definitely what’s happening in Hong Kong is part of a bigger battle between US and China. It’s just kind of the latest manifestation of the intensifying rivalry between you guys’ government and the Chinese government. As sort of Hong Kong is being sacrificed in this kind of great power rivalry. And for us, and for people in the States and for leftists in the States, I think, the really the target, the enemy at home is the US government, which is primarily responsible for escalating tensions right now and very often using racism to sort of escalate the tensions with China.
I think that’s a primary responsibility is to counter that escalation at home by the Trump administration, by the right wing media, but also by the Biden campaign, which has tried to out do Trump by putting out like an ad, a political campaign ad that says basically, Trump is not tough enough on China. But at the same time, I think people should also be critical of the Chinese government. And it will be a disservice to all the social movement activists in China if we turn a blind eye to the domestic repressions within China. I think as leftists, as progressives, we need to be critical and opposed to the Chinese state and the US state.
Kevin Lin: You said this very clearly and concisely. I think that the really important messages to give out to this, given being stuck between both the People’s Republic of China and the United States, where the administrations that they have, that this movement that you’re a part of, much of it is left, but it is democratic all the way through. And it’s really different voices trying to be heard. And I think that gets lost in all of this. Can get lost in all of this. That message you just gave, I think it was really important for us to hear.
Kevin Lin, I deeply appreciate you staying up so late to talk with us tonight and being with us today. We want you to stay safe. We’ll stay in touch. We’ll keep telling your story as much as we can. And thank you so much. And please, as I said, please stay safe as you can.
Mark Steiner: Thank you.
Kevin Lin: We’ve been talking to Kevin Lin, Hong Kong University researcher about what’s going on in Hong Kong. Of course, we’re saying all this, talking about this while we won’t let it go. And in this, this COVID-19 please everybody stay safe, stay home. Be careful. I’m Mark Steiner here for The Real News Network. Take care.
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therealnews--2020-06-04--Stir Crazy! Episode #46: The First Amendment Goes Up In Flames

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Raised in southern New Jersey outside Philadelphia, and now residing in Baltimore Maryland, Andrew Corkery worked as a Visual Producer / Editor/ Researcher for the Real News Network. Prior to that he worked for nearly four years as Video Editor for CBS 3 Eyewitness News, and an Investigative Journalist for Spirit News both in Philadelphia. He graduated from Rider University in Lawrenceville, New Jersey in May of 2014 with a Bachelor's degree in Digital Media. While in college Andrew completed a media education and co op work program at CAPA London, working as a researcher and video editor for COAST, a digital strategy and brand film content production company.
Andrew maintains a relentlessly keen interest in all things geopolitics in almost every corner of the globe. He has since applied this passion and interest to his creative and investigative work as a producer, editor, journalist and videographer. One of his most impactful pieces focused on a story outlining how to combat Islamophobia in communities across the world, articulating the differences between Radical Islamists and the vast majority of people who follow Islam, while showing the many layers of nuance, both in politics and religion more broadly. That Story, "Islam in the Riverwards: PART 1 AND 2," along with "Being Black in Bridesburg", a story highlighting the impacts and legacy of racial injustice in a largely white community within Philadelphia, were both published in Spirit News and later featured in write ups from The Philadelphia Inquirer and Philadelphia Magazine.
With Andrew's career expanding experience of living and working abroad in mind, he recognizes the importance of staying connected to the world. The cornerstones of Andrew's work can always be found in uncovering the expansive impact of global events and political issues, while relating them to people's everyday lives, through the mediums of online video, film and writing. Finally, Andrew is currently the Lead Singer and Member Manager of a successful original alternative rock band called Shadowplay, based in Mt. Laurel, NJ, founded in 2008 at Lenape High School. The band has since performed over 200 shows, including performances at such festivals as SXSW, and opening up for bands like Tracy Guns, Weitz and The Parlor Mob.


therealnews--2020-06-04--Three Cops Charged, Murder Count Upgraded in George Floyd’s Death

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Taya Graham : Hello .
My name is Taya Graham .
I ’ m the host of Police Accountability Report here with a breaking news update .
There have been new charges against the officers responsible for the death of George Floyd .
Keith Ellison : First , today I filed an amended complaint that charges former Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin with murder in the second-degree for the death of George Floyd .
I believe the evidence available to us now supports the stronger @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ve consulted with each other and we agree .
Second , today arrest warrants were issued for former Minneapolis Police Officers , JA Kueng , Thomas Lane , and Tou Thao .
Finally , I ’ d like to announce that today , Hennepin County Attorney Michael Freeman and I filed a complaint that charges Police Officer Kueng , Lane , and Thao with aiding and abetting murder in the second degree , a felony offense .
I strongly believe that these developments are in the interest of justice for Mr. Floyd , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ our state .
Taya Graham : Floyd died after Minneapolis officer Derek Chauvin kneeled on his neck and body for almost nine minutes while the other three officers just watched .
Last week , Chauvin was arrested and charged with Floyd ’ s murder , but the charges were for only third-degree murder , but there ’ s been a change .
Stephen , can you tell us what the Minnesota Attorney General has done and what the new charges are ?
Stephen Janis : Yeah .
Minnesota Attorney General , Keith Ellison @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , he upgraded the charges against Chauvin to second-degree murder , felony murder , and second , he charged the three officers who are seen on the scene in the video with accessory after the fact and accessory to murder .
This is the first time they ’ ve charged the other officers .
So , it was a big announcement , three new charges , and then the charge is upgraded to second-degree murder .
The first charge was third-degree murder called depraved heart murder , which is serious , but the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ shows reckless disregard .
So , these are new charges , much more serious , and for many protestors , long-awaited .
Taya Graham : Stephen , I was struck by how Attorney General Ellison actually held all the officers accountable for their role in George Floyd ’ s death .
This doesn ’ t seem like a common practice to me .
What are your thoughts ?
Stephen Janis : Well , it is uncommon for other officers who are on the scene to be held for the actions of a single @ @ @ @ @ @ @ difficult it is to prosecute police , to begin with .
One thing that people were saying , the protesters were saying across the country was that if I ’ d been standing around watching , participating this , I would be charged as an accessory .
Just like they were saying , “ If I had done something like this that was caught on video , I would be charged immediately.
” So , I think there was compelling evidence given the video and what we ’ ve seen , but it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are difficult to prosecute and Ellison talked about that in his press conference , how difficult it is to prosecute officers .
Taya Graham : Yes , notoriously difficult to prosecute officers .
So , Stephen , it ’ s also interesting to me that the family attorney said that the officer kept checking for a pulse .
He kept checking to see whether or not Floyd was breathing , even after he had already lost his pulse .
So , what does that do ?
How does that change the charges here @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Well , I mean , the family attorney argued that it made a case for first degree murder because they have audio , the body camera where the officers check for a pulse , say there isn ’ t a pulse , but they keep kneeling on him .
So , he said that shows intent , but it does make , I think , a stronger case for second-degree murder because they were aware that he wasn ’ t breathing .
I mean , they literally checked him and said , “ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and then instead of- Taya Graham : And then continued the action [ crosstalk 00:03:44 ] Stephen Janis : And then continued for another two minutes .
Right .
So , that ’ s an significant legal point , and I think it ’ s a significant point in this case .
Taya Graham : I think that ’ s incredibly important point that they realized that he wasn ’ t breathing and did not stop to render aid .
I don ’ t think that ’ s something that we can let @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as a reporter , this is very reminiscent of what happened in 2015 , after the death of Freddie Gray .
There were protests in the street , what was called an uprising and Marilyn Mosby announced charges , and then the population waited to see what was next .
The protest got quiet and stopped .
What do you think will happen after these charges are given ?
Do you think it ’ ll change the way protesters are handling their reaction and their understandably emotional reaction to the death of George @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I mean , you make a great point .
Certainly , the protestors in Baltimore felt like they weren ’ t being heard .
And when Marilyn Mosby announced the charges , they felt like they ’ d find the message had gotten through and someone had acted .
I don ’ t know if this will have , there ’ ll be the same reaction .
I mean , this seems to be larger and more comprehensive .
You hear other names mentioned in these protests like Breonna Taylor , who was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so , I don ’ t know if this will do it , but certainly , I think the protesters were… Some of the people that has spoken about it has said that this was at least what should happen .
Whether or not this will calm people down or stop this discussion , I doubt it because this seems to be sort of a general mass discussion about policing in general , the criminal justice system , racial bias , and the racism that seems to pervade these cases .
So , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be that simple , but we ’ ll have to see .
Taya Graham : Right .
When people are protesting , they ’ re not just saying George Floyd , they ’ re saying Trayvon Martin , they ’ re saying Breonna Taylor , they ’ re saying Walter Scott , they ’ re saying Philandro Castile .
So , there are a lot of names .
There are a lot of families that have been absolutely subjected to the worst tragedy a family could ever experience , the death of a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it again and again on video , on social media , on TV , is incredibly painful .
So , hopefully , with these protests and with some changes in policing , maybe this will be one of the last of these tragedies .
My name is Taya Graham .
This is Stephen Janis reporting for the Police Accountability Report .
Please be safe out there .

Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison announced the charges after an independent investigation determined officers at the scene were culpable for Floyd’s death.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Taya Graham: Hello. My name is Taya Graham. I’m the host of Police Accountability Report here with a breaking news update. There have been new charges against the officers responsible for the death of George Floyd.
Keith Ellison: First, today I filed an amended complaint that charges former Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin with murder in the second-degree for the death of George Floyd. I believe the evidence available to us now supports the stronger charge of second-degree murder. We’ve consulted with each other and we agree. Second, today arrest warrants were issued for former Minneapolis Police Officers, JA Kueng, Thomas Lane, and Tou Thao. Finally, I’d like to announce that today, Hennepin County Attorney Michael Freeman and I filed a complaint that charges Police Officer Kueng, Lane, and Thao with aiding and abetting murder in the second degree, a felony offense. I strongly believe that these developments are in the interest of justice for Mr. Floyd, his family, our community, and our state.
Taya Graham: Floyd died after Minneapolis officer Derek Chauvin kneeled on his neck and body for almost nine minutes while the other three officers just watched. Last week, Chauvin was arrested and charged with Floyd’s murder, but the charges were for only third-degree murder, but there’s been a change. Stephen, can you tell us what the Minnesota Attorney General has done and what the new charges are?
Stephen Janis: Yeah. Minnesota Attorney General, Keith Ellison, announced new charges today. First, he upgraded the charges against Chauvin to second-degree murder, felony murder, and second, he charged the three officers who are seen on the scene in the video with accessory after the fact and accessory to murder. This is the first time they’ve charged the other officers. So, it was a big announcement, three new charges, and then the charge is upgraded to second-degree murder. The first charge was third-degree murder called depraved heart murder, which is serious, but the second-degree murder is much more serious and shows reckless disregard. So, these are new charges, much more serious, and for many protestors, long-awaited.
Taya Graham: Stephen, I was struck by how Attorney General Ellison actually held all the officers accountable for their role in George Floyd’s death. This doesn’t seem like a common practice to me. What are your thoughts?
Stephen Janis: Well, it is uncommon for other officers who are on the scene to be held for the actions of a single officer, but it also demonstrates how difficult it is to prosecute police, to begin with. One thing that people were saying, the protesters were saying across the country was that if I’d been standing around watching, participating this, I would be charged as an accessory. Just like they were saying, “If I had done something like this that was caught on video, I would be charged immediately.” So, I think there was compelling evidence given the video and what we’ve seen, but it is unusual because usually, police officers are difficult to prosecute and Ellison talked about that in his press conference, how difficult it is to prosecute officers.
Taya Graham: Yes, notoriously difficult to prosecute officers. So, Stephen, it’s also interesting to me that the family attorney said that the officer kept checking for a pulse. He kept checking to see whether or not Floyd was breathing, even after he had already lost his pulse. So, what does that do? How does that change the charges here a little bit?
Stephen Janis: Well, I mean, the family attorney argued that it made a case for first degree murder because they have audio, the body camera where the officers check for a pulse, say there isn’t a pulse, but they keep kneeling on him. So, he said that shows intent, but it does make, I think, a stronger case for second-degree murder because they were aware that he wasn’t breathing. I mean, they literally checked him and said, “He’s not breathing,” and then instead of-
Taya Graham: And then continued the action [crosstalk 00:03:44]
Stephen Janis: And then continued for another two minutes. Right. So, that’s an significant legal point, and I think it’s a significant point in this case.
Taya Graham: I think that’s incredibly important point that they realized that he wasn’t breathing and did not stop to render aid. I don’t think that’s something that we can let people forget. Stephen, for me as a reporter, this is very reminiscent of what happened in 2015, after the death of Freddie Gray. There were protests in the street, what was called an uprising and Marilyn Mosby announced charges, and then the population waited to see what was next. The protest got quiet and stopped. What do you think will happen after these charges are given? Do you think it’ll change the way protesters are handling their reaction and their understandably emotional reaction to the death of George Floyd?
Stephen Janis: Yeah. I mean, you make a great point. Certainly, the protestors in Baltimore felt like they weren’t being heard. And when Marilyn Mosby announced the charges, they felt like they’d find the message had gotten through and someone had acted. I don’t know if this will have, there’ll be the same reaction. I mean, this seems to be larger and more comprehensive. You hear other names mentioned in these protests like Breonna Taylor, who was killed during a no-knock raid. And so, I don’t know if this will do it, but certainly, I think the protesters were… Some of the people that has spoken about it has said that this was at least what should happen. Whether or not this will calm people down or stop this discussion, I doubt it because this seems to be sort of a general mass discussion about policing in general, the criminal justice system, racial bias, and the racism that seems to pervade these cases. So, I don’t think it will be that simple, but we’ll have to see.
Taya Graham: Right. When people are protesting, they’re not just saying George Floyd, they’re saying Trayvon Martin, they’re saying Breonna Taylor, they’re saying Walter Scott, they’re saying Philandro Castile. So, there are a lot of names. There are a lot of families that have been absolutely subjected to the worst tragedy a family could ever experience, the death of a loved one, and then to see it again and again on video, on social media, on TV, is incredibly painful. So, hopefully, with these protests and with some changes in policing, maybe this will be one of the last of these tragedies. My name is Taya Graham. This is Stephen Janis reporting for the Police Accountability Report. Please be safe out there.
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therealnews--2020-06-04--‘It’s About Time’ America Reckons With Its Racist Founding

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Speaker 1 : It ’ s the whole entire system in itself , the police department , the government , all of those racists that are in those positions of power , putting us down as a community .
We just want to come out here and show them that we have the numbers .
We have the strength .
Jaisal Noor : Welcome to The Real News .
I ’ m Jaisal Noor .
The United States has erupted in protest over the police @ @ @ @ @ @ @ thousands taking to the streets for a second week , despite the continuing COVID-19 pandemic , defined curfews , and violent police repression .
Thousands have been jailed and scores of journalists have been targeted by police .
President Donald Trump has sent troops to Washington and threatened to use them to suppress the protests .
On Wednesday , June 3rd , all four Minneapolis police officers involved in Floyd ’ s death were charged over his killing and Derek Chauvin , who was seen kneeling on Floyd ’ s neck , now @ @ @ @ @ @ @ protests are continuing to demand justice for all victims of police brutality and to fundamentally alter the balance of power between the community and law enforcement .
Now joining us to discuss this is Dr. Gerald Horne .
He holds the John J. and Rebecca Moores Chair of History and African American Studies at the University of Houston , author of a number of books , and one of them which we ’ ll touch upon is The Counter-Revolution of 1776 : Slave Resistance and the Origin of the United States .
But @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the news that all four officers involved in George Floyd ’ s death will be charged .
This came after more than a week of sustained historic nationwide protests that took place in every state of the country and defied curfews , defied violent repression , and real bloody protests that culminated in this moment today .
Dr. Gerald Horn… : Well , thank you .
And I should also add that the protests were global , taking place in London today , periodically in Sydney , Australia , Auckland , New Zealand @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that the high level of delegation from the African Union in Addis Ababa , Ethiopia called in the US representative for urgent consultations on this matter is quite profound and significant .
And that ’ s something we can not ignore .
And we also should not ignore that these charges against all four officers comes after pressure leads to Attorney General Keith Ellison , a former member of the US Congressional Black Caucus and a man who happens to be Muslim , was appointed to oversee this case .
At his press @ @ @ @ @ @ @ bit of reticence on the part of protesters because he says there ’ s an ongoing investigation .
Keep in mind that since the officer in question , Derek Chauvin , and Mr. Floyd once worked at this same nightclub .
It ’ s that they might ’ ve crossed paths before .
It ’ s possible they may have had some confrontation before , which would then bring in the requisite premeditation that would mandate a charge of first degree murder , for example .
So in any case , this latest @ @ @ @ @ @ @ significant , and certainly it should energize protesters further .
Jaisal Noor : So Donald Trump , he ’ s threatened to sick dogs on protesters .
His administration teargassed protesters to help stage up photo-op .
He ’ s threatened to deploy the military against protesters .
He signed an executive order calling Antifa a terrorist organization .
You know , some are warning that this ongoing repression , this criminalization of dissent , calling in the military , this could be a trial run , potentially in November or in the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ election .
First of all , can you reflect on the moves he ’ s taken ?
And is this something that you are concerned about ?
Dr. Gerald Horn… : Well , obviously Don the Con has been shaken , not least by the protests a few days ago when the White House was surrounded and the Secret Service , according to press reports , feared that security with the breached , which is why they took him down to the bunker .
Now bunker boy on Twitter is trending .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has shaken the 45th US president , the Oaf the Oval Office .
And he has responded like you would expect a bully and a coward to respond , that is seeking to up the ante .
Whether or not upping the ante will amount to trying to cancel the election is a separate question , but certainly there are ominous signals .
Ominous signals being number one , his attempt to cripple the post office , which would make problematic at best the attempt to have mail-in ballots for the November 2020 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ his ongoing attempt to engage in voter suppression .
Certainly we must take quite seriously the charge made by Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon , in light of that photo-op staged in front of a church across from the White House , that Mr. Trump has been engaged in what Senator Wyden called quote “ fascist ” unquote like tactics .
If Senator Wyden is accurate , and I dare say that he is , certainly that means we should keep our powder dry , metaphorically speaking , and not rule out any @ @ @ @ @ @ @ election .
Jaisal Noor : So I spoke to protesters that marched in Baltimore on Monday .
It was a massive protest , estimates as high as 15,000 people took to the streets and I talked to a number of protesters .
Many of them were dissatisfied with Joe Biden ’ s response .
And here ’ s a clip that recently went viral .
Joe Biden : The idea that instead of standing there and teaching a cop when there ’ s an unarmed person coming at him with a knife or @ @ @ @ @ @ @ instead of in the heart .
This is a very different thing .
There ’ s a lot of different things that can change .
Jaisal Noor : So in that clip , we heard Joe Biden say that police should shoot unarmed people in the leg .
So on one hand you have Joe Biden saying stuff like this .
On the other hand you have Amy Klobuchar who is considered , or at least was considered , a possibility to be a vice presidential nominee and she was a prosecutor in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ police department , which is now facing a civil rights investigation .
It ’ s under scrutiny now , but it was her job to prosecute these cops and she often declined to do so .
What does this mean for Democrats ?
What does this moment mean ?
Dr. Gerald Horn… : Well , let ’ s hope that it means that we can rule out Amy Klobuchar , who was part of the problem , as a potential democratic party nominee for vice president .
Certainly I think that we should @ @ @ @ @ @ @ said .
On the one hand , it ’ s no secret that he doesn ’ t have the gift of gab , that he ’ s a gaffe machine , as one of his supporters , Congressman Clyburn of South Carolina put it .
On the other hand , we should take quite seriously the distinction he tried to draw because we ’ re often told about not opting for the lesser of the two evils .
And certainly , I guess he illustrated that because Republicans would say , “ Shoot @ @ @ @ @ @ @ says , “ Shoot us in the leg.
” Maybe we should be thankful for small favors , but on the other hand , I think we can do better and we should be better .
Jaisal Noor : And another point I wanted to raise with you is that this isn ’ t America ’ s first police shooting .
We saw uprisings against police violence in places like Ferguson , right here in Baltimore , and a lot of reforms were proposed and enacted .
Yet people on the streets say @ @ @ @ @ @ @ wanted to ask you whether part of the reason for this is that America hasn ’ t grappled with its founding sin .
What you write about in your book The Counter-Revolution of 1776 , common wisdom states that America rebelled for freedom which led to emancipation and the Civil War .
Your book presents a very different narrative of the founding of this country .
Can you explain that and why that ’ s significant in this current moment when we ’ re discussing reforming police and law enforcement and the relationship @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Dr. Gerald Horn… : Well , given this bloodstained history with regard to people of African descent in particular , it ’ s no accident that you ’ ve seen black men in particular being targeted , particularly murdered on tape in a kind of pornography of violence .
Point number one is that the founders of the United States were mostly slave owners or lawyers for slave owners in the case of John Adams , the second US president .
And London was moving towards abolition of slavery as represented by Somerset @ @ @ @ @ @ @ rather than accede to that decision that could have jeopardized their fortunes , they rebelled against London ’ s rule and kicked out London .
Which leads to whammy number two , which is that the African population by several orders of magnitude did not side with the settlers in revolting against British rule .
And since that time we ’ ve been treated as a threat to the status quo .
In a sense we are , since we ’ re pushing for justice and the country was not founded on justice @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as if we ’ re criminals in waiting because supposedly we ’ re a threat to the status quo .
And that is what led to the killing of Philando .
Castile in Minnesota a few years ago and the killing of George Floyd just about eight or nine days ago .
And until we interrogate this very difficult and problematic history , I ’ m afraid to say we ’ re going to be facing other examples like George Floyd in the very near future .
But I ’ m hopeful that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and troublesome history .
Jaisal Noor : And finally , when we ’ re talking about the founding of this country , we ’ re talking about enslavement , that ’ s a debt that was never paid .
Do you think that that is a conversation… Again , that ’ s being raised in these protests .
And so along with the idea of reparations , along with the idea of defunding police , America spends more on police than most countries , especially compared to social services .
When we ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it ’ s important to also talk about the issue of reparations ?
Dr. Gerald Horn… : Well , certainly .
And interestingly enough , setting the pace to a degree is Ben & Jerry ’ s ice cream , which is part of a major transnational corporation , Unilever .
On a statement posted to their website just the other day , they came out four square in favor of H.R .
40 , which calls upon Congress to do a study of the idea of reparations .
And they indicated in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ should be pursued .
It seems to me if corporations , even if it ’ s Ben & Jerry ’ s , can call for reparations , certainly trade unions can and should , certainly student groups can and should , certainly environmentalists can and should .
And so my question is what are we waiting for ?
Jaisal Noor : Well , Dr. Gerald Horne , thank you so much for joining us .
And we understand you have a new book coming out just in a couple of days .
Can @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
Dr. Gerald Horn… : The Dawning of the Apocalypse : The Roots of Slavery , White Supremacy , Settler Colonialism , and Capitalism in the Long Sixteenth Century .
When you go to a doctor , oftentimes the doctor takes your medical history so they can figure out what ’ s wrong with you today .
This is a deep dive into the history of what eventuated in the United States of America .
And I think it will be quite useful for activists in particular to peruse these pages .
Jaisal @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Horne , it ’ s always a pleasure .
Thank you so much for joining us .
Dr. Gerald Horn… : Thank you for inviting me .
Jaisal Noor : And thank you for joining us at The Real News Network .

The George Floyd uprisings revealed the inadequacies of both Biden and Trump, argues professor Gerald Horne.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Speaker 1: It’s the whole entire system in itself, the police department, the government, all of those racists that are in those positions of power, putting us down as a community. We just want to come out here and show them that we have the numbers. We have the strength.
Jaisal Noor: Welcome to The Real News. I’m Jaisal Noor. The United States has erupted in protest over the police killing of George Floyd with hundreds of thousands taking to the streets for a second week, despite the continuing COVID-19 pandemic, defined curfews, and violent police repression. Thousands have been jailed and scores of journalists have been targeted by police. President Donald Trump has sent troops to Washington and threatened to use them to suppress the protests. On Wednesday, June 3rd, all four Minneapolis police officers involved in Floyd’s death were charged over his killing and Derek Chauvin, who was seen kneeling on Floyd’s neck, now faces second degree murder charges.
Yet protests are continuing to demand justice for all victims of police brutality and to fundamentally alter the balance of power between the community and law enforcement. Now joining us to discuss this is Dr. Gerald Horne. He holds the John J. and Rebecca Moores Chair of History and African American Studies at the University of Houston, author of a number of books, and one of them which we’ll touch upon is The Counter-Revolution of 1776: Slave Resistance and the Origin of the United States. But first Dr. Horne, your reaction to the news that all four officers involved in George Floyd’s death will be charged. This came after more than a week of sustained historic nationwide protests that took place in every state of the country and defied curfews, defied violent repression, and real bloody protests that culminated in this moment today.
Dr. Gerald Horn…: Well, thank you. And I should also add that the protests were global, taking place in London today, periodically in Sydney, Australia, Auckland, New Zealand, Berlin, Germany. The fact that the high level of delegation from the African Union in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia called in the US representative for urgent consultations on this matter is quite profound and significant. And that’s something we can not ignore. And we also should not ignore that these charges against all four officers comes after pressure leads to Attorney General Keith Ellison, a former member of the US Congressional Black Caucus and a man who happens to be Muslim, was appointed to oversee this case.
At his press conference today, he asks for a bit of reticence on the part of protesters because he says there’s an ongoing investigation. Keep in mind that since the officer in question, Derek Chauvin, and Mr. Floyd once worked at this same nightclub. It’s that they might’ve crossed paths before. It’s possible they may have had some confrontation before, which would then bring in the requisite premeditation that would mandate a charge of first degree murder, for example. So in any case, this latest charge that Ellison has brought is quite significant, and certainly it should energize protesters further.
Jaisal Noor: So Donald Trump, he’s threatened to sick dogs on protesters. His administration teargassed protesters to help stage up photo-op. He’s threatened to deploy the military against protesters. He signed an executive order calling Antifa a terrorist organization. You know, some are warning that this ongoing repression, this criminalization of dissent, calling in the military, this could be a trial run, potentially in November or in the future, if Donald Trump loses an election. First of all, can you reflect on the moves he’s taken? And is this something that you are concerned about?
Dr. Gerald Horn…: Well, obviously Don the Con has been shaken, not least by the protests a few days ago when the White House was surrounded and the Secret Service, according to press reports, feared that security with the breached, which is why they took him down to the bunker. Now bunker boy on Twitter is trending. And I think that that kind of embarrassment has shaken the 45th US president, the Oaf the Oval Office. And he has responded like you would expect a bully and a coward to respond, that is seeking to up the ante.
Whether or not upping the ante will amount to trying to cancel the election is a separate question, but certainly there are ominous signals. Ominous signals being number one, his attempt to cripple the post office, which would make problematic at best the attempt to have mail-in ballots for the November 2020 election. And we already know about his ongoing attempt to engage in voter suppression. Certainly we must take quite seriously the charge made by Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, in light of that photo-op staged in front of a church across from the White House, that Mr. Trump has been engaged in what Senator Wyden called quote “fascist” unquote like tactics. If Senator Wyden is accurate, and I dare say that he is, certainly that means we should keep our powder dry, metaphorically speaking, and not rule out any possibilities with regard to this November 2020 election.
Jaisal Noor: So I spoke to protesters that marched in Baltimore on Monday. It was a massive protest, estimates as high as 15,000 people took to the streets and I talked to a number of protesters. Many of them were dissatisfied with Joe Biden’s response. And here’s a clip that recently went viral.
Joe Biden: The idea that instead of standing there and teaching a cop when there’s an unarmed person coming at him with a knife or something, shoot him in the leg instead of in the heart. This is a very different thing. There’s a lot of different things that can change.
Jaisal Noor: So in that clip, we heard Joe Biden say that police should shoot unarmed people in the leg. So on one hand you have Joe Biden saying stuff like this. On the other hand you have Amy Klobuchar who is considered, or at least was considered, a possibility to be a vice presidential nominee and she was a prosecutor in Minneapolis and declined to prosecute this corrupt police department, which is now facing a civil rights investigation. It’s under scrutiny now, but it was her job to prosecute these cops and she often declined to do so. What does this mean for Democrats? What does this moment mean?
Dr. Gerald Horn…: Well, let’s hope that it means that we can rule out Amy Klobuchar, who was part of the problem, as a potential democratic party nominee for vice president. Certainly I think that we should take quite seriously what Vice President Biden said. On the one hand, it’s no secret that he doesn’t have the gift of gab, that he’s a gaffe machine, as one of his supporters, Congressman Clyburn of South Carolina put it. On the other hand, we should take quite seriously the distinction he tried to draw because we’re often told about not opting for the lesser of the two evils. And certainly, I guess he illustrated that because Republicans would say, “Shoot us in the head.” And he says, “Shoot us in the leg.” Maybe we should be thankful for small favors, but on the other hand, I think we can do better and we should be better.
Jaisal Noor: And another point I wanted to raise with you is that this isn’t America’s first police shooting. We saw uprisings against police violence in places like Ferguson, right here in Baltimore, and a lot of reforms were proposed and enacted. Yet people on the streets say nothing fundamentally has changed. And I wanted to ask you whether part of the reason for this is that America hasn’t grappled with its founding sin. What you write about in your book The Counter-Revolution of 1776, common wisdom states that America rebelled for freedom which led to emancipation and the Civil War. Your book presents a very different narrative of the founding of this country. Can you explain that and why that’s significant in this current moment when we’re discussing reforming police and law enforcement and the relationship between African Americans and the state?
Dr. Gerald Horn…: Well, given this bloodstained history with regard to people of African descent in particular, it’s no accident that you’ve seen black men in particular being targeted, particularly murdered on tape in a kind of pornography of violence. Point number one is that the founders of the United States were mostly slave owners or lawyers for slave owners in the case of John Adams, the second US president. And London was moving towards abolition of slavery as represented by Somerset’s case in 1772. And rather than accede to that decision that could have jeopardized their fortunes, they rebelled against London’s rule and kicked out London.
Which leads to whammy number two, which is that the African population by several orders of magnitude did not side with the settlers in revolting against British rule. And since that time we’ve been treated as a threat to the status quo. In a sense we are, since we’re pushing for justice and the country was not founded on justice. And we’ve been treated as if we’re criminals in waiting because supposedly we’re a threat to the status quo. And that is what led to the killing of Philando. Castile in Minnesota a few years ago and the killing of George Floyd just about eight or nine days ago. And until we interrogate this very difficult and problematic history, I’m afraid to say we’re going to be facing other examples like George Floyd in the very near future. But I’m hopeful that we have begun to interrogate that difficult and troublesome history.
Jaisal Noor: And finally, when we’re talking about the founding of this country, we’re talking about enslavement, that’s a debt that was never paid. Do you think that that is a conversation… Again, that’s being raised in these protests. And so along with the idea of reparations, along with the idea of defunding police, America spends more on police than most countries, especially compared to social services. When we’re having these conversations do you think it’s important to also talk about the issue of reparations?
Dr. Gerald Horn…: Well, certainly. And interestingly enough, setting the pace to a degree is Ben & Jerry’s ice cream, which is part of a major transnational corporation, Unilever. On a statement posted to their website just the other day, they came out four square in favor of H.R. 40, which calls upon Congress to do a study of the idea of reparations. And they indicated in their statement that they feel that reparations should be pursued. It seems to me if corporations, even if it’s Ben & Jerry’s, can call for reparations, certainly trade unions can and should, certainly student groups can and should, certainly environmentalists can and should. And so my question is what are we waiting for?
Jaisal Noor: Well, Dr. Gerald Horne, thank you so much for joining us. And we understand you have a new book coming out just in a couple of days. Can you tell us a little about it?
Dr. Gerald Horn…: The Dawning of the Apocalypse: The Roots of Slavery, White Supremacy, Settler Colonialism, and Capitalism in the Long Sixteenth Century. When you go to a doctor, oftentimes the doctor takes your medical history so they can figure out what’s wrong with you today. This is a deep dive into the history of what eventuated in the United States of America. And I think it will be quite useful for activists in particular to peruse these pages.
Jaisal Noor: All right, Dr. Gerald Horne, it’s always a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us.
Dr. Gerald Horn…: Thank you for inviting me.
Jaisal Noor: And thank you for joining us at The Real News Network.
Studio: Taylor Hebden
Production: Taylor Hebden
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therealnews--2020-06-04--Pollution Rises As China Ends COVID-19 Shutdown

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Kim Brown : Welcome to The Real News .
I ’ m Kim Brown .
Well , that didn ’ t last long .
At the end of February , I covered a research study here at The Real News , which showed that as China was fighting COVID-19 pandemic and shuttering its economy in the meantime , its notoriously high levels of air pollution plummeted .
This included levels of nitrogen oxide , which changes were visible even by NASA space satellites .
Here @ @ @ @ @ @ @ scientist Bryan Duncan discussing his findings with me .
Bryan Duncan : We expected to see a decrease , but not this much .
It just indicates how the Chinese government , how restrictive they were in their efforts to contain the virus by shutting down factories , requiring people to stay at home .
And that shows very clearly in the data .
Kim Brown : Much has changed since that segment .
For one , China is no longer the global epicenter of the coronavirus .
The United States is .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ seeing lower pollution levels , but the US , at least for now that is , with the US still under stay-at-home orders in some of its largest urban areas and virus hotspots .
Now , according to a new analysis by the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air , China recently exceeded pre-coronavirus levels of pollutants , such as PM2.5 , sulfur dioxide , and ozone for the first time , driven in large part by industrial pollution in its massive cities , Shanghai and Beijing .
They aren ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ though , but higher than at the same time one year ago .
That research also showed pollution levels are higher in areas that burn coal and concluded that the ozone levels are even approaching the all-time record levels set in 2018 .
The study raises some key questions about what comes next in the economic rebuilding phase in China and beyond .
Will it be based around a green stimulus or further entrench polluting industries and perpetuate the climate crisis ?
Well , joining us today to discuss this are our two @ @ @ @ @ @ @ analyst for the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air , and he authored the aforementioned study .
Amy Westervelt is the founder of the Critical Frequency podcast network and co-hosting its climate podcast show called Hot Take .
She also executive produces its show Drilled .
The editor-in-chief of the digital print publication Drilled News , Westervelt is the author of the recent Huffington Post article titled It Took A Pandemic To Prove That Individual Actions Alone Won ’ t Solve The Climate Crisis .
And they ’ re joining us @ @ @ @ @ @ @ much for being here .
Amy Westervelt : Yeah , thanks for having us .
Kim Brown : Lauri , I wanted to ask you first , as the author of the opus on pollution in China in the aftermath of the economy starting to open back up , let ’ s begin with you .
What are some of the biggest findings of your analysis , and were you surprised with what you found ?
Lauri Myllyvirt… : The big concern with events like this in China is that the old playbook @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is pouring massive amounts of money into construction , into smokestack industries that led to surges in air pollution and in greenhouse gas emissions after the SARS epidemic in 2003 , the global financial crisis in 2008 .
So we ’ ve being concerned of the same dynamic playing out again .
And indeed , in late April , we saw pollution levels not just returning to normal , but overshooting those normal levels as some of these industries were making up for lost time .
Luckily , the Chinese leadership has taken @ @ @ @ @ @ @ course .
They recently decided that they won ’ t set a GDP target , an economic growth target , for this year to give some space to pursue other goals , hopefully environmental goals .
So it ’ s still something to be seen how this plays out , but it ’ s certainly a concerning sign for China and for other countries that start to recover from this , that we are seeing this kind of a spike in pollution .
Kim Brown : Lauri , why do these findings , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ recovery for the economic shutdown ?
Lauri Myllyvirt… : If you look at the Chinese economy , there ’ s still a lot of sectors that are reeling from the impact of the coronavirus .
So in that sense , you should be seeing a lower level of pollution as well .
So what ’ s happening is that the most polluting parts of the economy , the highly-polluting heavy industries , have been the fastest to rebound and recover , largely driven by the expectation that there will be a massive construction @ @ @ @ @ @ @ numbers rather than any real events on the ground .
Kim Brown : Now , Amy , your article grappled with the fact that pollution and emissions rates here in the US have also dropped significantly since the COVID-19 pandemic and the subsequent economic shutdown .
I wanted to read a quote back to you .
You wrote , quote , “ The COVID-19 pandemic shows more clearly than ever that individual action to tackle the climate crisis will never be enough without a parallel system of change focused on emissions reductions .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Individual action and systemic change are both required to move the needle on climate change , ” end quote .
Can you unpack that a little bit more for us ?
And what do you make of the Chinese case study in the context of the argument raised in your Huffington Post piece ?
Amy Westervelt : Yeah .
First of all , I would say that the whole idea … There ’ s been a lot of talk in the US about , “ Look at what we can do when @ @ @ @ @ @ @ but no one ’ s made the decision on their own to shelter in place or shut down factories or any of these things .
Those are actually policy moves , not individual actions .
So the whole idea that this is somehow a proof point that if we just choose to do things differently , that will solve the climate crisis is somewhat flawed .
The other thing I think is that there ’ s been kind of this false debate between individual actions versus systemic change on the climate question in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ re seeing is that you need both .
Yes , you need individuals to be sort of willing to undergo certain changes and to consume differently , but you really need a system that gives them those choices to begin with , and we don ’ t have that .
In the US , we have very limited options when it comes to our power sources , our transportation sources , all of those things .
And what we ’ re seeing right now is that the government is just doubling down @ @ @ @ @ @ @ re not at all moving to provide new ones .
Kim Brown : Lauri , China just wrapped up its Two Sessions meetings in Beijing , the most important political meetings of the year .
Now , the meetings are also focused in large part , unsurprisingly , on economic recovery efforts as China ’ s economy is expected to contract this year for the first time since it began recording quarterly GDP back in 1992 .
Speaking of GDP , at the meetings , the Chinese Community Party announced that it will @ @ @ @ @ @ @ output in 2020 .
So what ’ s the significance of that , and does that have any climate change or pollution policy implications ?
Lauri Myllyvirt… : The concern was that if China sets a hard GDP target for this year , that would really force the hand of the government at all levels just to concentrate all of their resources to just create GDP with any kind of wasteful projects , make work seems … rather than focus on the real needs of the people in China .
You need to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that people have healthcare access , that people have spending power in spite of the income losses that happened at the start of the year .
And all of those things can be done much more efficiently when you ’ re not constrained by this kind of a target .
I ’ m going to say that not setting a GDP target is incredibly good news for the environment simply because having that GDP target would have meant stimulating highly-polluting industries to try and hit that a target .
But this is also @ @ @ @ @ @ @ from Chinese leaders .
So if you look at the same work report where there GDP target was dropped , they also dropped environmental targets that would usually be there .
So this is really doing away with some of those hard targets to create space and how they use that space , whether they , for example , focus on green energy and other clean investments when they do increase investment and so on .
All of that seems like it ’ s very much in the air .
There hasn ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , strong statement from the Chinese leadership that they will pursue a green recovery , something that we have seen from many European leaders , for example .
Kim Brown : Now , Amy , in the US , progressive climate activists say that the time is ripe right now for some type of green stimulus .
In fact , a group of activists and scholars called for a $ 1-trillion package under that billing back in March , but the Democratic congressional leadership has yet to propose or even entertain the idea @ @ @ @ @ @ @ course , the Trump administration , as you have documented at Drilled News , has repeatedly offered the fossil fuel industry subsidies and deregulatory measures to keep it afloat amidst its ongoing economic collapse .
So what do you make of the politics around this , and why haven ’ t Democrats followed in the footsteps of places like Spain and the broader European Union in proposing or pushing to adopt a green recovery ?
Amy Westervelt : I mean , I think that the Democrats are kind of falling victim to the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to for a long time , which is sort of giving up before they even try .
They are not even proposing … I mean , before Congress even started entertaining stimulus packages or policies , the Republicans were already accusing Democratic leadership of trying to use COVID-19 as sort of the way to push the Green New Deal , which hadn ’ t happened .
And actually , that ’ s what drove us to start looking at what the fossil fuel industry was doing , because they have this history of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they themselves are doing .
And in fact , in this case , they were using the COVID-19 pandemic to push their long-time wishlist of policy that … with everything from fast-tracking pipelines to rolling back regulations to tax breaks they ’ ve been trying to get for years .
I mean , it was like Christmas for them .
And meanwhile , the Democrats have suggested almost nothing .
I think they ’ ve congratulated themselves for minor wins on holding back the worst of the fossil fuel industry ’ s sort @ @ @ @ @ @ @ yeah , their performance has been pretty dismal .
So the idea that we ’ re going to see a green recovery package is , I think , kind of pie in the sky at this point .
You don ’ t have anyone with any backbone in Congress pushing that idea .
Kim Brown : Yeah .
Perhaps the D stands for dismal in this instance .
Kim Brown : Well , Lauri , I wanted to end with you because the climate scientists say that if the global powers like the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ European Union countries do not act on this issue in this COVID-19 economic recovery period , what type of policies and programs do you think need to be adopted , and how can climate advocates push to make this happen ?
Lauri Myllyvirt… : I think one of the big global things about this is that millions of people have experienced the best air quality of their lives .
And that experience and then once the air pollution does come back , the experience of that change for the worse is something that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a lot of desire for things to change .
So that ’ s one of the broad hopes that I have .
The other thing certainly for the United States is that a lot of the action to try and prevent the return of air pollution could also take place on the city and state level .
We ’ ve seen a lot of cities in Europe , for example , taking steps to try and shift to a cleaner transport system once people start moving around , start going back to work @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s one of the obvious places to start .
The other one is that , unfortunately , I think the uncertainty and the impact from this disease will continue for quite a while , so also the window for pushing for greener recovery measures will be there for some time to come .
Kim Brown : All right .
We ’ re going to leave the conversation there .
Lauri and Amy , we appreciate you both making the time to speak with us today .
Thank you so much .
Kim Brown @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Real News Network .

As China’s economy reopens, old pollution trends are reappearing. It’s a cautionary tale for other countries as they end stay-at-home orders.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Kim Brown: Welcome to The Real News. I’m Kim Brown.
Well, that didn’t last long. At the end of February, I covered a research study here at The Real News, which showed that as China was fighting COVID-19 pandemic and shuttering its economy in the meantime, its notoriously high levels of air pollution plummeted. This included levels of nitrogen oxide, which changes were visible even by NASA space satellites. Here’s NASA Goddard Space Flight Center scientist Bryan Duncan discussing his findings with me.
Bryan Duncan: We expected to see a decrease, but not this much. It just indicates how the Chinese government, how restrictive they were in their efforts to contain the virus by shutting down factories, requiring people to stay at home. And that shows very clearly in the data.
Kim Brown: Much has changed since that segment. For one, China is no longer the global epicenter of the coronavirus. The United States is. And it’s no longer China seeing lower pollution levels, but the US, at least for now that is, with the US still under stay-at-home orders in some of its largest urban areas and virus hotspots.
Now, according to a new analysis by the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air, China recently exceeded pre-coronavirus levels of pollutants, such as PM2.5, sulfur dioxide, and ozone for the first time, driven in large part by industrial pollution in its massive cities, Shanghai and Beijing. They aren’t just up from pre-COVID-19 levels, though, but higher than at the same time one year ago. That research also showed pollution levels are higher in areas that burn coal and concluded that the ozone levels are even approaching the all-time record levels set in 2018.
The study raises some key questions about what comes next in the economic rebuilding phase in China and beyond. Will it be based around a green stimulus or further entrench polluting industries and perpetuate the climate crisis?
Well, joining us today to discuss this are our two guests. Lauri Myllyvirta is a lead analyst for the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air, and he authored the aforementioned study. Amy Westervelt is the founder of the Critical Frequency podcast network and co-hosting its climate podcast show called Hot Take. She also executive produces its show Drilled. The editor-in-chief of the digital print publication Drilled News, Westervelt is the author of the recent Huffington Post article titled It Took A Pandemic To Prove That Individual Actions Alone Won’t Solve The Climate Crisis. And they’re joining us both today. Thank you both so much for being here.
Lauri Myllyvirt…: Thank you.
Amy Westervelt: Yeah, thanks for having us.
Kim Brown: Lauri, I wanted to ask you first, as the author of the opus on pollution in China in the aftermath of the economy starting to open back up, let’s begin with you. What are some of the biggest findings of your analysis, and were you surprised with what you found?
Lauri Myllyvirt…: The big concern with events like this in China is that the old playbook for getting the economy back on track is pouring massive amounts of money into construction, into smokestack industries that led to surges in air pollution and in greenhouse gas emissions after the SARS epidemic in 2003, the global financial crisis in 2008. So we’ve being concerned of the same dynamic playing out again. And indeed, in late April, we saw pollution levels not just returning to normal, but overshooting those normal levels as some of these industries were making up for lost time.
Luckily, the Chinese leadership has taken steps to try and chart a different course. They recently decided that they won’t set a GDP target, an economic growth target, for this year to give some space to pursue other goals, hopefully environmental goals. So it’s still something to be seen how this plays out, but it’s certainly a concerning sign for China and for other countries that start to recover from this, that we are seeing this kind of a spike in pollution.
Kim Brown: Lauri, why do these findings, as you say, signify a dirty recovery for the economic shutdown?
Lauri Myllyvirt…: If you look at the Chinese economy, there’s still a lot of sectors that are reeling from the impact of the coronavirus. So in that sense, you should be seeing a lower level of pollution as well. So what’s happening is that the most polluting parts of the economy, the highly-polluting heavy industries, have been the fastest to rebound and recover, largely driven by the expectation that there will be a massive construction boom to try and improve those economic numbers rather than any real events on the ground.
Kim Brown: Now, Amy, your article grappled with the fact that pollution and emissions rates here in the US have also dropped significantly since the COVID-19 pandemic and the subsequent economic shutdown. I wanted to read a quote back to you. You wrote, quote, “The COVID-19 pandemic shows more clearly than ever that individual action to tackle the climate crisis will never be enough without a parallel system of change focused on emissions reductions. It’s not an either/or situation. Individual action and systemic change are both required to move the needle on climate change,” end quote. Can you unpack that a little bit more for us? And what do you make of the Chinese case study in the context of the argument raised in your Huffington Post piece?
Amy Westervelt: Yeah. First of all, I would say that the whole idea … There’s been a lot of talk in the US about, “Look at what we can do when we decide to not emit,” but no one’s made the decision on their own to shelter in place or shut down factories or any of these things. Those are actually policy moves, not individual actions. So the whole idea that this is somehow a proof point that if we just choose to do things differently, that will solve the climate crisis is somewhat flawed.
The other thing I think is that there’s been kind of this false debate between individual actions versus systemic change on the climate question in the US, and really what we’re seeing is that you need both. Yes, you need individuals to be sort of willing to undergo certain changes and to consume differently, but you really need a system that gives them those choices to begin with, and we don’t have that. In the US, we have very limited options when it comes to our power sources, our transportation sources, all of those things. And what we’re seeing right now is that the government is just doubling down on those old options. They’re not at all moving to provide new ones.
Kim Brown: Lauri, China just wrapped up its Two Sessions meetings in Beijing, the most important political meetings of the year. Now, the meetings are also focused in large part, unsurprisingly, on economic recovery efforts as China’s economy is expected to contract this year for the first time since it began recording quarterly GDP back in 1992. Speaking of GDP, at the meetings, the Chinese Community Party announced that it will not use GDP to measure its economic output in 2020. So what’s the significance of that, and does that have any climate change or pollution policy implications?
Lauri Myllyvirt…: The concern was that if China sets a hard GDP target for this year, that would really force the hand of the government at all levels just to concentrate all of their resources to just create GDP with any kind of wasteful projects, make work seems … rather than focus on the real needs of the people in China. You need to create jobs. You need to ensure that people have healthcare access, that people have spending power in spite of the income losses that happened at the start of the year. And all of those things can be done much more efficiently when you’re not constrained by this kind of a target.
I’m going to say that not setting a GDP target is incredibly good news for the environment simply because having that GDP target would have meant stimulating highly-polluting industries to try and hit that a target. But this is also not some kind of a green awakening from Chinese leaders. So if you look at the same work report where there GDP target was dropped, they also dropped environmental targets that would usually be there. So this is really doing away with some of those hard targets to create space and how they use that space, whether they, for example, focus on green energy and other clean investments when they do increase investment and so on. All of that seems like it’s very much in the air. There hasn’t been any kind of a overarching, strong statement from the Chinese leadership that they will pursue a green recovery, something that we have seen from many European leaders, for example.
Kim Brown: Now, Amy, in the US, progressive climate activists say that the time is ripe right now for some type of green stimulus. In fact, a group of activists and scholars called for a $1-trillion package under that billing back in March, but the Democratic congressional leadership has yet to propose or even entertain the idea of a green stimulus. And of course, the Trump administration, as you have documented at Drilled News, has repeatedly offered the fossil fuel industry subsidies and deregulatory measures to keep it afloat amidst its ongoing economic collapse. So what do you make of the politics around this, and why haven’t Democrats followed in the footsteps of places like Spain and the broader European Union in proposing or pushing to adopt a green recovery?
Amy Westervelt: I mean, I think that the Democrats are kind of falling victim to the thing they’ve been falling victim to for a long time, which is sort of giving up before they even try. They are not even proposing … I mean, before Congress even started entertaining stimulus packages or policies, the Republicans were already accusing Democratic leadership of trying to use COVID-19 as sort of the way to push the Green New Deal, which hadn’t happened. And actually, that’s what drove us to start looking at what the fossil fuel industry was doing, because they have this history of sort of accusing their opponents of what they themselves are doing.
And in fact, in this case, they were using the COVID-19 pandemic to push their long-time wishlist of policy that … with everything from fast-tracking pipelines to rolling back regulations to tax breaks they’ve been trying to get for years. I mean, it was like Christmas for them. And meanwhile, the Democrats have suggested almost nothing. I think they’ve congratulated themselves for minor wins on holding back the worst of the fossil fuel industry’s sort of wishlist on this stuff.
But yeah, their performance has been pretty dismal. So the idea that we’re going to see a green recovery package is, I think, kind of pie in the sky at this point. You don’t have anyone with any backbone in Congress pushing that idea.
Kim Brown: Yeah. Perhaps the D stands for dismal in this instance.
Amy Westervelt: Yeah. For real. Yes.
Kim Brown: Well, Lauri, I wanted to end with you because the climate scientists say that if the global powers like the United States, China, and the European Union countries do not act on this issue in this COVID-19 economic recovery period, what type of policies and programs do you think need to be adopted, and how can climate advocates push to make this happen?
Lauri Myllyvirt…: I think one of the big global things about this is that millions of people have experienced the best air quality of their lives. And that experience and then once the air pollution does come back, the experience of that change for the worse is something that can catalyze a lot of action and a lot of desire for things to change. So that’s one of the broad hopes that I have.
The other thing certainly for the United States is that a lot of the action to try and prevent the return of air pollution could also take place on the city and state level. We’ve seen a lot of cities in Europe, for example, taking steps to try and shift to a cleaner transport system once people start moving around, start going back to work and so on. So that’s one of the obvious places to start. The other one is that, unfortunately, I think the uncertainty and the impact from this disease will continue for quite a while, so also the window for pushing for greener recovery measures will be there for some time to come.
Kim Brown: All right. We’re going to leave the conversation there. Lauri and Amy, we appreciate you both making the time to speak with us today. Thank you so much.
Amy Westervelt: Thank you.
Lauri Myllyvirt…: Thank you.
Kim Brown: And thank you for watching The Real News Network.
Studio: Bababtunde Ogunfolaju
Production: Bababtunde Ogunfolaju, Steve Horn
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