therealnews--2020-04-14--Mainstream Media Blind Spots In The Coronavirus Crisis

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors .
It will be updated .
Eddie Conway : Welcome to this episode of The Real News .
I ’ m Eddie Conway , and today , we want to look at the role that the media has been playing in this pandemic .
Joining me to talk about the bias in the media and the way they portray the narrative around viruses , is Priscilla Wald .
Well , thanks for joining me Priscilla .
Eddie Conway : Priscilla , can you give me an overview of how the media @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and drama around different things ?
The media has been always considered the Fourth Estate in America , and it was there at the very beginning and it created the narrative that eventually led to this empire .
So can you talk about how they portray certain things and present it to the American people , and how that impacts how we live and how we react ?
Priscilla Wald : Sure .
Well , I think , let me say , I think the media has a very difficult job , because @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to communicate the problem to people who don ’ t have a strong education , in most cases , in the science , and are going to have a range of responses to how to behave .
And the public was hearing from the president that there wasn ’ t a problem , so when journalists were trying to get out the message from other people in the medical profession , other more local politicians who were trying to keep the public safe , they had a very difficult job of cutting through @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was nothing to fear .
So on the one hand , they need to make the population pay attention and realize that there ’ s a problem , and that they really do need to stay inside , avoid public gatherings , and so forth , when again , the message from the White House was , there ’ s nothing to fear .
There are 15 people and pretty soon , there won ’ t be anybody and it ’ s not really a problem , it ’ s a hoax .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ it .
The other side of it is when you communicate that information , how do you strike a balance between getting people to take it seriously enough so that they will disrupt their lives for it , put their livelihoods on the line on the one hand , and on the other hand , not panic ?
And so , I do appreciate the difficult position that the media is in .
What I write about and think about is something that I call the outbreak narrative , and the outbreak narrative @ @ @ @ @ @ @ see in popular culture films like Contagion , or Outbreak , and of course , it ’ s going to be sensationalized if you ’ re going to make the movie , you ’ re not going to make a movie about a cold circulating , no one ’ s going to watch it .
Soon the one hand , popular culture is telling this very sensational story , but at the same time , and you can see this kind of thing around say the Ebola outbreaks that we ’ ve lived @ @ @ @ @ @ @ might be trying to tell a measured story about the problem of an infectious disease , or of an outbreak , or of a pandemic , but then the headlines have to grab viewers .
And so , it ’ s very easy to sensationalize a problem that no one really needs to be terrified by , say , in the United States .
There was no reason to be terrified by the 2014 Ebola epidemic in the United States , but the way that it was reported made people panic , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ pushed because of films like Outbreak and Contagion , and it exacerbated the kinds of biases that we tend to see , well , that are with us all the time , but that get more pronounced in a crisis .
So children who had come from as far away as California is to New York , and had in no way , I mean , this is in Africa , and had in no way been exposed to Ebola were not allowed to attend a school in New Jersey , and that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you see when people react with panic to something that gets reported in the news .
So the question is , how can the news report in a way that informs people without pressing those panic buttons ?
It ’ s a tall order .
Eddie Conway : Yes , and even as you say that , I ’ m thinking prior to this particular pandemic , from the time Trump ’ s administration got in , they have been denigrating the news , fake news , don ’ t trust it , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so , there ’ s a certain amount of the population that already don ’ t trust the news , in the out-groups , say for instance , the groups that Trump ’ s people target , there ’ s always been a distrust of the news , because things happen- Priscilla Wald : Of some of the news .
Eddie Conway : Yeah .
Things happen in the poor communities , the black communities , communities of color , that people on the ground know that this is not true , or @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , or that ’ s not how it ’ s been reported .
So the thing that I ’ m concerned about is how this is focused on China , how it ’ s under-reporting or ignoring what ’ s happening on the ground with homeless people , poor people , people of color , and so on .
I mean , okay , so my personal thing is that the news is owned by six major multinational corporations .
They pretty much control the message that we ’ re getting .
So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ re getting is xenophobic and also very hostile to people down on the ground .
What ’ s your feeling about that ?
Priscilla Wald : I think that that ’ s absolutely true .
I heard a really terrific panel a few nights ago , people who were working with farm workers , and how much have we read in the media about the risks to farm workers from COVID-19 ?
And these are people whose working conditions are subpar to begin with , and some of them are undocumented immigrants and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ health care , most of them don ’ t have access to excellent health care .
Their jobs are not secure , they have to take the work as it comes , and they have to take these subpar working conditions as they come .
And a crisis like COVID-19 really underscores those inequities , the failures of our system , the people who are considered expendable or disposable , and we don ’ t hear that story nearly enough in the media .
Why are we not having feature stories on farm @ @ @ @ @ @ @ re working in to get the food to our tables ?
Without them , we wouldn ’ t be eating , our stores wouldn ’ t be stocked .
And I ’ m really glad , and again , I want to see the balance .
I ’ m very glad that the media has begun to talk about frontline people , like people working in pharmacies , and groceries , and delivery services , and who are keeping us alive , but there ’ s a lot of people behind those scenes @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and I really would like to see some reporting on those forgotten people , those invisibilized , you might say , or obscured populations and professions .
So I completely agree with you .
Another thing that I ’ d like to see more of is a more balanced discussion of what wet markets really are .
I gave a talk a few days ago and somebody asked me , “ Well , should we close wet markets ?
” and I didn ’ t have an answer , because , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ hadn ’ t done any research on what they actually were .
I was only getting what little was coming through the media , which is a very obscured understanding of it , and fortunately , I had a conversation with a Duke student a few days ago , who is from China and who explained to me her family always goes to wet markets .
She ’ s never seen bats , and snakes , and all of these things , and she said they exist , but in a very small @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so , what a wet market is , is something that widely varies across China , but we ’ re not getting those nuances , we ’ re just getting an outcry that somehow China should shut down all of its wet markets , which are a form of grocery shopping in China .
So we need to hear a more nuanced discussion about that kind of thing , and again , I don ’ t want to be critical of the media because as you say , the media has been so @ @ @ @ @ @ @ right ?
Fox News has not been discredited by Donald Trump , and his people do watch Fox News , and they ’ re getting very different news from people who watch MSNBC or CNN .
We ’ re all getting… there are gradations of difference .
So I don ’ t want to dismiss all of the media , per se , and play into Trump ’ s discrediting .
And it is a tough job , I mean , and a lot of people covering all of these things are risking @ @ @ @ @ @ @ risking their lives and always do .
But I would like to see more nuanced stories about people we ’ re not hearing about , and I absolutely agree with you , the homeless .
What ’ s happening to the homeless during COVID-19 ?
I don ’ t know .
I ’ m not finding those articles , and I actually did look for that in a Google search and didn ’ t find very much .
Eddie Conway : Well , and we cover , one of the things we do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on in the prisons and jails across America , to the best of our ability , and there ’ s almost no news , or the news is so [ inaudible 00:11:24 ] , that people don ’ t realize the disastrous impact that this is having in the prison system .
But what ’ s the solution here ?
Okay , we know the media is owned by corporations .
We know that they ’ re putting out a certain line , we know that that ’ s a difficult job .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ serious , but what do we do going forward ?
Because you can ’ t kind of fix what ’ s already been happened , but going forward in the future , what should we be looking at to fix this problem with the media ?
To me , it ’ s like Big Brother in 1984 , it ’ s always fearmongering , but it ’ s not necessarily giving us concrete , levelheaded advice about what really to do , without creating that panic that allows for eventually these states of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we be doing on the ground to change that , to change how those narratives are out there ?
Priscilla Wald : That ’ s a great question .
I wish I had a good answer .
Personally , I want to start with education at every level , and I ’ m hoping that coming out of this crisis , people will begin to be aware of what is broken in our system , and I do think the media has been covering some of that .
I have read a fair @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the problems in the prisons , and of course , we need more , but that at least is getting out there , and I hope that following this crisis , people who have been forced , really , to pay attention to the news , we ’ re all in our houses , how else are we going to know what ’ s going on ?
We ’ ll begin to see that , as I said , things are broken in our system , like why do we not have universal @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that not a priority ?
It absolutely needs to be .
The prison system is absolutely something that desperately needs fixing .
Maybe this will be the opportunity for people to be broadly , a broad population , to be receptive to hearing stories about how the prison is broken .
Within academia , I read a lot about the broken prison system , but how about ways of getting that out into the public ?
And the media is the way to do that .
How can we make… Well , it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
On the one hand , it would be terrific if the media began to give more educational programming about these problems , and not just the marginal media , but really , mainstream media doing an in-depth story about the prison system , multiple in-depth stories .
We need a lot of stories about the prison system , but you also need a public that ’ s going to tune into those programs .
We need a public that is going to not just be looking for them .
I mean , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ looking for that programming , but the public needs to want to hear about it , and needs to not turn off the television or whatever way they ’ re getting their news source , put down the newspaper , or whatever it is , their online sources , when those stories are being told .
So I think education has to happen everywhere , and it really has to start in K through 12 .
Students should be learning about the problems of our society broadly .
They should be learning about @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they should be learning about what it means to have disposable populations , and who got reported on and who didn ’ t , for example , in this crisis , whose story was told , whose story was emitted .
I don ’ t know how to solve that problem , but I mean , you asked what I ’ d like to see .
That ’ s where I ’ d like to see it begin .
I ’ d like to see the outcome of this crisis be more education @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Conway : And as you were talking , I was thinking and wondering , the internet and social media , the interaction on the ground , grassroots kind of back and forth .
Obviously , you get 10,000 people talking about 10,000 different things in 10,000 different ways , you ’ re not going to have any cohesiveness .
But I was wondering , I was just thinking there used to be , and it seems to be diminishing , public broadcasting systems , and I wonder if that ’ s not one @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in the future , is the public to own the major media systems that tell us what ’ s going on , so that we could have more trust in them , we ’ re not worrying about what Rupert Murdoch want us to hear , or [ inaudible 00:16:54 ] , or whoever .
I wonder if that ’ s a way to go .
I like your concept of the education K to 12 , that ’ s really important .
Young people should start studying and learning about the media @ @ @ @ @ @ @ because it ’ s controlling our life .
The government obviously controls our life , but the media tells us how .
Priscilla Wald : I agree .
I think the problem is funding , right ?
My worry actually , is that public broadcasting is going to get increasingly even more , it ’ s already starting , defunded under the current administration .
People have to step up and fund those sources , but if you hear the annual drives or semi-annual drives for support , it ’ s not happening @ @ @ @ @ @ @ needs to , and I think , I would love to see more programs like Democracy Now !
, and I would love to see Democracy Now !
have a much broader range than it does at the moment .
It ’ s often hard for me in North Carolina to find where Democracy Now !
is broadcasting , it ’ s hard to get .
When I ’ m in Seattle or New York , I can get Democracy Now !
very easily .
So , it ’ s a multipronged problem @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the funding and once they do , of having a broader broadcasting system that allows us access .
I mean , online access to Democracy Now !
is a good solution obviously to programming that doesn ’ t happen locally .
Eddie Conway : And I hear you , and I know that the public has been carrying that water , but I ’ m wondering , the same way the government takes 50 % of our tax money and spend it on military ventures all around the world , why not use @ @ @ @ @ @ @ those… I mean , the media is probably the one of the most important things that impact our life .
Why not make that a part of the federal budget and a part of the public taxpayer ’ s expenditures ?
I mean , we should demand that .
Priscilla Wald : Health care , education , public media support , I mean , all of these things should be funded .
I would love to see , again , coming out of COVID-19 , an entire rethinking of our economic system and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ % agree with you , but we have to elect the officials that are going to make those decisions , right ?
And I think , I ’ m going to guess the way you vote , the way I vote , we would , but a majority has to make that happen , a big majority has to make that happen .
And how do we do that ?
I don ’ t have an answer for that question .
I hope you do , but I ’ m not sure any @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , going to come up with that solution .
We all work for it , we all hope for it , we all give our time for it , but it has to happen , and I think there are , I mean , many possibilities following COVID-19 , but sort of outlining three of them , people can put this behind them and never want to think about it again .
I mean , obviously we ’ ll think about it , we ’ re not going to have the option not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to get back to normalcy , to things as they were , and there will be over time , collective amnesia .
I hope that doesn ’ t happen .
I don ’ t know if it can , given what ’ s coming .
Secondly , people could turn even more conservative and want to have solutions that go more towards privatization , which I think all of us on this call would not want , or I mean , I ’ m going to repeat myself , but people could say @ @ @ @ @ @ @ system is at the source of that failure .
How we allocate resources , what we fund , how we communicate .
I mean , our communication system failed .
Not in this case because of journalists , but because of the president ’ s megaphone , and how do we fix that ?
And my hope is that those are the questions people are going to be asking when we come out of this .
The most left-leaning moment as I understand it , historians might correct me here , that we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ during the Great Depression .
I don ’ t want to see a depression , but this is a crisis of that order right now , and maybe this will make people stop and think we need a different way , we need different leaders , really different leaders with different commitments , and then the funding you ’ re asking for would happen .
Eddie Conway : Okay .
So thank you for joining me .
Priscilla Wald : Thank you .
Thank you for your questions , and let ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Eddie Conway : And thank you for joining The Real News .
Speaker 3 : Thanks a lot for watching , appreciate it .
But do us one more solid favor .
Hit the subscribe button below , you know you want to .
Stay up on new videos .

The mainstream media let Trump’s blunders dominate the COVID-19 narrative, neglecting their chance for a nuanced look at public health, incarceration, farmers, and homelessness.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors. It will be updated.
Eddie Conway: Welcome to this episode of The Real News. I’m Eddie Conway, and today, we want to look at the role that the media has been playing in this pandemic. Joining me to talk about the bias in the media and the way they portray the narrative around viruses, is Priscilla Wald. Well, thanks for joining me Priscilla.
Priscilla Wald: Thank you.
Eddie Conway: Priscilla, can you give me an overview of how the media plays a role in creating the fear and drama around different things? The media has been always considered the Fourth Estate in America, and it was there at the very beginning and it created the narrative that eventually led to this empire. So can you talk about how they portray certain things and present it to the American people, and how that impacts how we live and how we react?
Priscilla Wald: Sure. Well, I think, let me say, I think the media has a very difficult job, because on the one hand, they have to communicate the problem to people who don’t have a strong education, in most cases, in the science, and are going to have a range of responses to how to behave. And the public was hearing from the president that there wasn’t a problem, so when journalists were trying to get out the message from other people in the medical profession, other more local politicians who were trying to keep the public safe, they had a very difficult job of cutting through the president’s message that there was nothing to fear.
So on the one hand, they need to make the population pay attention and realize that there’s a problem, and that they really do need to stay inside, avoid public gatherings, and so forth, when again, the message from the White House was, there’s nothing to fear. There are 15 people and pretty soon, there won’t be anybody and it’s not really a problem, it’s a hoax. So that’s one side of it. The other side of it is when you communicate that information, how do you strike a balance between getting people to take it seriously enough so that they will disrupt their lives for it, put their livelihoods on the line on the one hand, and on the other hand, not panic? And so, I do appreciate the difficult position that the media is in.
What I write about and think about is something that I call the outbreak narrative, and the outbreak narrative is a highly sensationalized version that we see in popular culture films like Contagion, or Outbreak, and of course, it’s going to be sensationalized if you’re going to make the movie, you’re not going to make a movie about a cold circulating, no one’s going to watch it. Soon the one hand, popular culture is telling this very sensational story, but at the same time, and you can see this kind of thing around say the Ebola outbreaks that we’ve lived through, the media, a journalist might be trying to tell a measured story about the problem of an infectious disease, or of an outbreak, or of a pandemic, but then the headlines have to grab viewers. And so, it’s very easy to sensationalize a problem that no one really needs to be terrified by, say, in the United States.
There was no reason to be terrified by the 2014 Ebola epidemic in the United States, but the way that it was reported made people panic, and I think that panic button was easily pushed because of films like Outbreak and Contagion, and it exacerbated the kinds of biases that we tend to see, well, that are with us all the time, but that get more pronounced in a crisis. So children who had come from as far away as California is to New York, and had in no way, I mean, this is in Africa, and had in no way been exposed to Ebola were not allowed to attend a school in New Jersey, and that’s the kind of bias that you see when people react with panic to something that gets reported in the news. So the question is, how can the news report in a way that informs people without pressing those panic buttons? It’s a tall order.
Eddie Conway: Yes, and even as you say that, I’m thinking prior to this particular pandemic, from the time Trump’s administration got in, they have been denigrating the news, fake news, don’t trust it, don’t believe it. And so, there’s a certain amount of the population that already don’t trust the news, in the out-groups, say for instance, the groups that Trump’s people target, there’s always been a distrust of the news, because things happen-
Priscilla Wald: Of some of the news.
Eddie Conway: Yeah. Things happen in the poor communities, the black communities, communities of color, that people on the ground know that this is not true, or that’s not how it happened, or that’s not how it’s been reported. So the thing that I’m concerned about is how this is focused on China, how it’s under-reporting or ignoring what’s happening on the ground with homeless people, poor people, people of color, and so on. I mean, okay, so my personal thing is that the news is owned by six major multinational corporations. They pretty much control the message that we’re getting. So, and this message that we’re getting is xenophobic and also very hostile to people down on the ground. What’s your feeling about that?
Priscilla Wald: I think that that’s absolutely true. I heard a really terrific panel a few nights ago, people who were working with farm workers, and how much have we read in the media about the risks to farm workers from COVID-19? And these are people whose working conditions are subpar to begin with, and some of them are undocumented immigrants and therefore don’t have access to health care, most of them don’t have access to excellent health care. Their jobs are not secure, they have to take the work as it comes, and they have to take these subpar working conditions as they come.
And a crisis like COVID-19 really underscores those inequities, the failures of our system, the people who are considered expendable or disposable, and we don’t hear that story nearly enough in the media. Why are we not having feature stories on farm workers and the conditions that they’re working in to get the food to our tables? Without them, we wouldn’t be eating, our stores wouldn’t be stocked. And I’m really glad, and again, I want to see the balance. I’m very glad that the media has begun to talk about frontline people, like people working in pharmacies, and groceries, and delivery services, and who are keeping us alive, but there’s a lot of people behind those scenes whose stories are still not being told, and I really would like to see some reporting on those forgotten people, those invisibilized, you might say, or obscured populations and professions.
So I completely agree with you. Another thing that I’d like to see more of is a more balanced discussion of what wet markets really are. I gave a talk a few days ago and somebody asked me, “Well, should we close wet markets?” and I didn’t have an answer, because, and this is to my shame, I hadn’t done any research on what they actually were. I was only getting what little was coming through the media, which is a very obscured understanding of it, and fortunately, I had a conversation with a Duke student a few days ago, who is from China and who explained to me her family always goes to wet markets. She’s never seen bats, and snakes, and all of these things, and she said they exist, but in a very small percentage of the wet markets. And so, what a wet market is, is something that widely varies across China, but we’re not getting those nuances, we’re just getting an outcry that somehow China should shut down all of its wet markets, which are a form of grocery shopping in China.
So we need to hear a more nuanced discussion about that kind of thing, and again, I don’t want to be critical of the media because as you say, the media has been so discredited. Not all the media, right? Fox News has not been discredited by Donald Trump, and his people do watch Fox News, and they’re getting very different news from people who watch MSNBC or CNN. We’re all getting… there are gradations of difference. So I don’t want to dismiss all of the media, per se, and play into Trump’s discrediting. And it is a tough job, I mean, and a lot of people covering all of these things are risking their lives as well, journalists are risking their lives and always do. But I would like to see more nuanced stories about people we’re not hearing about, and I absolutely agree with you, the homeless. What’s happening to the homeless during COVID-19? I don’t know. I’m not finding those articles, and I actually did look for that in a Google search and didn’t find very much.
Eddie Conway: Well, and we cover, one of the things we do is we cover what’s going on in the prisons and jails across America, to the best of our ability, and there’s almost no news, or the news is so [inaudible 00:11:24], that people don’t realize the disastrous impact that this is having in the prison system. But what’s the solution here? Okay, we know the media is owned by corporations. We know that they’re putting out a certain line, we know that that’s a difficult job. Yes, people have to take this serious, but what do we do going forward? Because you can’t kind of fix what’s already been happened, but going forward in the future, what should we be looking at to fix this problem with the media? To me, it’s like Big Brother in 1984, it’s always fearmongering, but it’s not necessarily giving us concrete, levelheaded advice about what really to do, without creating that panic that allows for eventually these states of emergency and authoritarian government. What should we be doing on the ground to change that, to change how those narratives are out there?
Priscilla Wald: That’s a great question. I wish I had a good answer. Personally, I want to start with education at every level, and I’m hoping that coming out of this crisis, people will begin to be aware of what is broken in our system, and I do think the media has been covering some of that. I have read a fair amount and heard a fair amount about the problems in the prisons, and of course, we need more, but that at least is getting out there, and I hope that following this crisis, people who have been forced, really, to pay attention to the news, we’re all in our houses, how else are we going to know what’s going on? We’ll begin to see that, as I said, things are broken in our system, like why do we not have universal access to health care? Why is that not a priority? It absolutely needs to be.
The prison system is absolutely something that desperately needs fixing. Maybe this will be the opportunity for people to be broadly, a broad population, to be receptive to hearing stories about how the prison is broken. Within academia, I read a lot about the broken prison system, but how about ways of getting that out into the public? And the media is the way to do that. How can we make… Well, it’s got two prongs, right? On the one hand, it would be terrific if the media began to give more educational programming about these problems, and not just the marginal media, but really, mainstream media doing an in-depth story about the prison system, multiple in-depth stories. We need a lot of stories about the prison system, but you also need a public that’s going to tune into those programs.
We need a public that is going to not just be looking for them. I mean, you or I, we’re looking for that programming, but the public needs to want to hear about it, and needs to not turn off the television or whatever way they’re getting their news source, put down the newspaper, or whatever it is, their online sources, when those stories are being told. So I think education has to happen everywhere, and it really has to start in K through 12. Students should be learning about the problems of our society broadly. They should be learning about the problems with the prison system, they should be learning about what it means to have disposable populations, and who got reported on and who didn’t, for example, in this crisis, whose story was told, whose story was emitted. I don’t know how to solve that problem, but I mean, you asked what I’d like to see. That’s where I’d like to see it begin. I’d like to see the outcome of this crisis be more education about where the system failed.
Eddie Conway: And as you were talking, I was thinking and wondering, the internet and social media, the interaction on the ground, grassroots kind of back and forth. Obviously, you get 10,000 people talking about 10,000 different things in 10,000 different ways, you’re not going to have any cohesiveness. But I was wondering, I was just thinking there used to be, and it seems to be diminishing, public broadcasting systems, and I wonder if that’s not one of the things that we should consider in the future, is the public to own the major media systems that tell us what’s going on, so that we could have more trust in them, we’re not worrying about what Rupert Murdoch want us to hear, or [inaudible 00:16:54], or whoever. I wonder if that’s a way to go. I like your concept of the education K to 12, that’s really important. Young people should start studying and learning about the media and its role in our life, because it’s controlling our life. The government obviously controls our life, but the media tells us how.
Priscilla Wald: I agree. I think the problem is funding, right? My worry actually, is that public broadcasting is going to get increasingly even more, it’s already starting, defunded under the current administration. People have to step up and fund those sources, but if you hear the annual drives or semi-annual drives for support, it’s not happening on as broad a scale as it needs to, and I think, I would love to see more programs like Democracy Now!, and I would love to see Democracy Now! have a much broader range than it does at the moment. It’s often hard for me in North Carolina to find where Democracy Now! is broadcasting, it’s hard to get. When I’m in Seattle or New York, I can get Democracy Now! very easily. So, it’s a multipronged problem of people needing to step up with the funding and once they do, of having a broader broadcasting system that allows us access. I mean, online access to Democracy Now! is a good solution obviously to programming that doesn’t happen locally.
Eddie Conway: And I hear you, and I know that the public has been carrying that water, but I’m wondering, the same way the government takes 50% of our tax money and spend it on military ventures all around the world, why not use some of our tax money to finance those… I mean, the media is probably the one of the most important things that impact our life. Why not make that a part of the federal budget and a part of the public taxpayer’s expenditures? I mean, we should demand that.
Priscilla Wald: Health care, education, public media support, I mean, all of these things should be funded. I would love to see, again, coming out of COVID-19, an entire rethinking of our economic system and how we allocate resources. I 100% agree with you, but we have to elect the officials that are going to make those decisions, right? And I think, I’m going to guess the way you vote, the way I vote, we would, but a majority has to make that happen, a big majority has to make that happen. And how do we do that? I don’t have an answer for that question. I hope you do, but I’m not sure any of us is, at the moment, going to come up with that solution.
We all work for it, we all hope for it, we all give our time for it, but it has to happen, and I think there are, I mean, many possibilities following COVID-19, but sort of outlining three of them, people can put this behind them and never want to think about it again. I mean, obviously we’ll think about it, we’re not going to have the option not to, but they may just want to get back to normalcy, to things as they were, and there will be over time, collective amnesia. I hope that doesn’t happen. I don’t know if it can, given what’s coming.
Secondly, people could turn even more conservative and want to have solutions that go more towards privatization, which I think all of us on this call would not want, or I mean, I’m going to repeat myself, but people could say our system failed, and our economic system is at the source of that failure. How we allocate resources, what we fund, how we communicate. I mean, our communication system failed. Not in this case because of journalists, but because of the president’s megaphone, and how do we fix that? And my hope is that those are the questions people are going to be asking when we come out of this. The most left-leaning moment as I understand it, historians might correct me here, that we’ve had in this country was during the Great Depression. I don’t want to see a depression, but this is a crisis of that order right now, and maybe this will make people stop and think we need a different way, we need different leaders, really different leaders with different commitments, and then the funding you’re asking for would happen.
Eddie Conway: Okay. So thank you for joining me.
Priscilla Wald: Thank you. Thank you for your questions, and let’s fight the good fight, right?
Eddie Conway: And thank you for joining The Real News.
Speaker 3: Thanks a lot for watching, appreciate it. But do us one more solid favor. Hit the subscribe button below, you know you want to. Stay up on new videos.
Related
Republish This Story Republish our articles for free, online or in print, under a Creative Commons license.


therealnews--2020-04-13--Stir Crazy! Episode #12:  Labour Party Madness!

All donations in the US and Canada are tax deductible .
To make a secure donation by credit or debit @ @ @ @ @ location , or select PayPal .

Close window X
We encourage republication of our original content. Please copy the HTML code in the textbox below, preserving the attribution and link to the article's original location, and only make minor cosmetic edits to the content on your site.


Surviving The Coronapocalypse

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors ; It will be updated .
Jason Hargrove : This coronavirus shit is for real and we out here , as public workers doing our job , trying to make an honest living , to take care of them families , but for you to get on the bus and staying on the bus , and cough several times without covering up your mouth and you know that we in the middle of a pandemic , that lets me know that some folks don ’ t care .
Jaisal Noor : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ m Jaisal Noor .
That was Detroit bus driver , Jason Hargrove ’ s impassioned plea just 12 days before he succumbed to the coronavirus pandemic and begs the question , are we all in this together ?
We were told the coronavirus would be the great equalizer .
It doesn ’ t discriminate , based on zip code or socioeconomic status .
But as the bodies pile up , disparities are coming to the forefront , with much blame owed to the Trump administration ’ s response , more focused on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and say actual harm reduction , people that most need it .
African-Americans are six times as likely to die in Chicago , they make up just 30 % of the population .
In Milwaukee County , Wisconsin , African-Americans , make up 27 % of the population , but over 80 % of deaths .
It ’ s a similar picture in Louisiana .
28 % of the population , but over 70 % of deaths .
These disparities are no mistake .
Frontline workers like Jason Hargrove don ’ t have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ distancing .
Well , now joining us to discuss this , is scholar , activist , Lawrence Brown .
He ’ s at the University of Wisconsin Public Health Institute .
Thanks so much for joining us .
Jaisal Noor : I wanted to ask you , give us the latest on the Wisconsin elections .
We know there was , what ’ s been described even by Lieutenant Governor , as voter suppression holding sites were shut down all over the state , especially in black neighborhoods .
Lawrence Brown : Well @ @ @ @ @ @ @ real issues is really that there were five polling sites in Milwaukee , a city of around 600,000 and maybe 62 or 60 or so , open in the city of Madison , a city of a quarter million .
If you look at just the overwhelming disparity in terms of the number of polls open if you ’ re looking at equity there .
But then also there ’ s the question of whether or not the polls should have been open at all in the middle of a pandemic .
I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ questions that I think activists here have raised and some of the disparities that are , were on the table as Tuesday ’ s election when underway .
Jaisal Noor : Your new piece is The Corona Apocalypse : Why COVID-19 targets redline black neighborhoods and hyper-segregated cities .
Makes me think of St Louis , which is just right where Ferguson is just right outside of .
All of St Louis deaths from coronavirus are African-American , 12 out of 12 .
Lawrence Brown : Yeah .
I mean , in that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ many of the cities that we ’ re seeing have the most impact from COVID-19 , are indeed hyper-segregated cities and hyper- segregation as a category discussed by several scholars .
But , really Douglas Massey , who wrote the book American apartheid with his colleague Nancy , didn ’ t .
Him and his colleagues really outline the multiple ways that cities can be segregated and they use five measures , concentration , centralization , clustering , isolation and unevenness .
When cities ranked over a score of 60 on any one @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the categories and the five categories that they use were low , moderate , highly segregated , and then hyper segregation , category four and hyper segregation , category five .
So , you have those five ways or categories you can look at for hyper-segregation .
Cities like Baltimore , Detroit , Chicago , are category five hyper-segregated cities , if you ’ d like to use the analogy of a hurricane .
Those are the cities that have the most intense form of hyper-segregation .
It turns out that many @ @ @ @ @ @ @ levels of COVID-19 , are also hyper-segregated .
New York is a category four hyper-segregated city .
Chicago , category five .
Milwaukee , category five .
St Louis , category five , and so there is no mistake in my mind that when you look at the high numbers of cases , hyper- segregation is at the root .
The issue with segregation in America , it ’ s not just white and black people living separately from each other .
It ’ s what happens to neighborhoods when it comes to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s the issue .
With hyper-segregation , you have the hyper-accumulation of resources in white communities and the hyper-deprivation of resources in the black communities .
That ’ s what happens with hyper- segregation and we ’ re seeing that play out with the COVID-19 epidemic .
Jaisal Noor : I was looking at some numbers from the Economic Policy Institute .
If you are , low income , if you ’ re a person of color , if you are African-American , you are far less likely to be able to work @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , I think is putting , especially people of color on the front lines , where a lot of them are making huge sacrifices .
We saw Chris Smalls , the Amazon worker , he got smeared as being inarticulate , trying to just have basic safety measures for his fellow workers .
We ’ re seeing suffering , but also we ’ re seeing resilience , despite these tremendous odds as well .
Lawrence Brown : Absolutely .
I think , what I ’ m really concerned about with the information coming @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that there isn ’ t enough emphasis being put on the spatial dimension of why African-Americans are the most impacted .
It ’ s not just because we bear a higher rate of disease , which again is due to hyper-segregation .
But even think about workers who live in redline , black communities to get to those jobs , they have to travel further because those jobs aren ’ t in their communities .
So , if they ’ re traveling further , if they ’ re using public transportation because of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ gaps , they ’ re traveling further to low-wage jobs on public transportation to get to places where there they have to work as essential workers , then they ’ re going to be more exposed to COVID-19 .
Think about going to get food .
If the grocery store that you need to get to is not in your neighborhood , you have to travel a further , a longer distance , then that too , is adding to your risk .
Even the spacial nature of our cities , where resources @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , if people need to go to jobs , if they need to get food , they ’ re having to travel longer distances , more likely use public transportation , if they don ’ t have cars and therefore more exposed , both in terms of in- transit and more exposed in terms of being not able to work from home .
Jaisal Noor : An Amazon worker from Chicago , we talked to , Christian Zamarron said , he said it plainly , “ We are considered essential workers , but @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ” because on top of everything you said , they ’ re also not getting , basic safety gear .
They ’ re not being allowed to socially distance in their workplace and oftentimes you ’ re seeing people … Amazon CEO was worth over $ 120 billion and he ’ s not letting … He ’ s firing people that are trying to raise awareness of safety .
This all begs the question , these conditions existed before the pandemic , which you ’ ve written about extensively and this is so @ @ @ @ @ @ @ issues that we already are dealing with .
But the question now is , how do we use this to organize ?
We just did a story about Spain where , the Left parties are coming together and saying , “ Look , we need to start giving the people who need it , money in their pockets every week , every month , to make sure that they can make ends meet even after this is over .
They ’ re trying to fight to make that permanent .
In America , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ actual shock doctrine because these big corporations are getting bailouts , but you don ’ t see communities getting bailouts and so far , 1200 bucks , one time check , that ’ s not going to cut it for a lot of people .
Lawrence Brown : Well , I like the way you just said , communities being bailed out , because if you look at hyper-segregation and how redline , black communities are being the most impacted , then I think you would be talking about the way we need @ @ @ @ @ @ @ towards communities in Milwaukee .
It ’ s North Milwaukee where African Americans live that have the highest rate of COVID-19 exposure and death .
In St Louis , I ’ m pretty sure it ’ s north of Delmar Road .
Detroit , south of 8-Mile Road .
In Baltimore , the Black Butterfly .
When you look at the spatial layout of these cities the maps show , then they will show the more we accumulate data , that black neighborhoods are the ones that are most impacted .
Latin-X communities @ @ @ @ @ @ @ American communities and reservations would be very much and disproportionately impacted .
So , those communities actually need a greater level of emergency response .
I don ’ t mean , militarized hyper-policing in terms of response .
I mean , actually what we should have is an army of community health workers , really deployed in these communities compensated well , which would help the employment issue .
But , actually folks going out , because it ’ s not says a matter of the word not getting out , or us @ @ @ @ @ @ @ It ’ s also a trust factor that we have to address .
Many people of color do not trust the healthcare system and the messaging , if you look at it , is not going out in a way that really speaks to the different cultural communities that we have in this nation .
We really should be utilizing community health workers in a much stronger way , even going door to door with protective equipment to check on folks .
Even though there ’ s this distancing , physical distancing that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ t be social distancing in terms of the community and being able to look out for each other .
Physical distancing , yes , but pulling away from our social connections and social bonds with each other , I think that ’ s a mistake .
I think organizing , really should take place in that way .
Organizing , if you look at the Black Panther party , they were health organizers .
The Black Panther party , they started free breakfast for children , free health clinics , free ambulance @ @ @ @ @ @ @ organizing around health justice and I think we have to start in this moment to ensure that we bring the pandemic to an end , number one , and then make sure people are getting through it in the recovery phase .
That goes to your point about income supports weekly , not just a one-time check that comes way too late after rent is due , but making sure we ’ re looking at all of these factors to make sure people are able to make it through this current apocalypse .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ expect the shock doctrine where elites use crises to implement harsh measures , they won ’ t , wouldn ’ t normally be able to .
The Baltimore Police just tried to pass through , or just got their spy plane program .
An actress had to go to court for that .
But some of the public hearings we ’ re online , which makes it harder to … the Democratic National convention is probably going to be online now , which makes it harder to organize , to have disruptions , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ too .
What are your thoughts ?
People like , it ’ s a lot of Democratic mayors that are in charge of these cities , that aren ’ t letting prisoners out of these hotspots for COVID-19 transmission even until it ’ s too late .
We saw it happen in Sing Sing and Rikers Island , and you have people like Democratic Governor , Andrew Cuomo , who using this crisis to cut health spending and has rolled back progressive bail reform .
There ’ s not much opposition to that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at this seriously , going forward ?
Lawrence Brown : Absolutely .
I mean , one reason you have Democratic mayors that are engaging in regressive emergency response practices and policies , again , is because of urban apartheid .
That ’ s what they ’ re used to actually doing in normal times .
So , when you have a pandemic coming , that ’ s your automatic reflex .
You ’ re not going to push with vigor , the type of protections that are needed during the pandemic .
If @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people and engaging in foreclosures , and having high levels of food insecurity , and desegregating cities , not just in terms of where people live , but desegregating the resources in those cities .
If you ’ re not doing that in normal times , what hope do we have that those folks will be doing that in the time of pandemic ?
That ’ s why I think we have to focus on hyper-segregation as the root because that ’ s what ’ s actually , that is what help cause @ @ @ @ @ @ @ pandemic , and this was actually styming the type of responses that are really needed .
One thing I should also mention is that , , really Baltimore is the home of American apartheid , it ’ s the home of urban apartheid in America .
In 1910 , Baltimore , Mayor John Barry Mahool , passed the first racial zoning law in America .
If you look at that decade , after 1910 , one of the reasons racial segregation was instituted , was because of public health .
There was a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the time , and African-Americans were blamed for the disproportionate rate of disease that they had .
That disease was tuberculosis .
There were other diseases like cholera , yellow fever .
People recognized even then , that it was the living conditions , the segregated , alley housing the African-Americans lived in , that was contributing to that cause .
But yet , and still , because of the disproportionality that African-Americans had with those diseases , that was used as a rationale by White Baltimorians is to help intensify racial segregation @ @ @ @ @ @ @ way might the notion that black people have a higher burden of this disease ?
Might that help in fact , cause history to repeat itself if we ’ re not careful .
That again , public health can be used to help justify and intensify racial segregation , which again , racial segregation is weaponized economically .
I think that ’ s why we have to really think deeply and look at how the intersection of space , place and race , all play a role in the way that we look @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we ’ ll have is people looking to hyper-police and hyper-segregate black communities even more because they ’ re bearing a greater burden of disease even though it ’ s hyper-segregation , that ’ s actually the root and cause behind it .
Jaisal Noor : That is a powerful note to end on .
Dr. Lawrence Brown , and thank you .
Obviously raising Baltimore , because you spent a lot of time here , you made great contributions to this city and you can keep giving these contributions .
We all @ @ @ @ @ @ @ much for joining us .
Lawrence Brown : Absolutely .
Power up to the Black Butterfly .
Jaisal Noor : Thank you for joining us at the Real News Network .

How apartheid and redlining are fueling the global COVID-19 pandemic and how people can fight back.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors; It will be updated.
Jason Hargrove: This coronavirus shit is for real and we out here, as public workers doing our job, trying to make an honest living, to take care of them families, but for you to get on the bus and staying on the bus, and cough several times without covering up your mouth and you know that we in the middle of a pandemic, that lets me know that some folks don’t care.
Jaisal Noor: Welcome to the Real News. I’m Jaisal Noor. That was Detroit bus driver, Jason Hargrove’s impassioned plea just 12 days before he succumbed to the coronavirus pandemic and begs the question, are we all in this together? We were told the coronavirus would be the great equalizer. It doesn’t discriminate, based on zip code or socioeconomic status. But as the bodies pile up, disparities are coming to the forefront, with much blame owed to the Trump administration’s response, more focused on grift, PR and bailouts for corporations and say actual harm reduction, people that most need it. African-Americans are six times as likely to die in Chicago, they make up just 30% of the population. In Milwaukee County, Wisconsin, African-Americans, make up 27% of the population, but over 80% of deaths. It’s a similar picture in Louisiana. 28% of the population, but over 70% of deaths. These disparities are no mistake. Frontline workers like Jason Hargrove don’t have the privilege of working remotely or social distancing. Well, now joining us to discuss this, is scholar, activist, Lawrence Brown. He’s at the University of Wisconsin Public Health Institute. Thanks so much for joining us.
Lawrence Brown: Thank you.
Jaisal Noor: I wanted to ask you, give us the latest on the Wisconsin elections. We know there was, what’s been described even by Lieutenant Governor, as voter suppression holding sites were shut down all over the state, especially in black neighborhoods.
Lawrence Brown: Well, I mean, one of the real issues is really that there were five polling sites in Milwaukee, a city of around 600,000 and maybe 62 or 60 or so, open in the city of Madison, a city of a quarter million. If you look at just the overwhelming disparity in terms of the number of polls open if you’re looking at equity there. But then also there’s the question of whether or not the polls should have been open at all in the middle of a pandemic. I think, those are some of the questions that I think activists here have raised and some of the disparities that are, were on the table as Tuesday’s election when underway.
Jaisal Noor: Your new piece is The Corona Apocalypse: Why COVID-19 targets redline black neighborhoods and hyper-segregated cities. Makes me think of St Louis, which is just right where Ferguson is just right outside of. All of St Louis deaths from coronavirus are African-American, 12 out of 12.
Lawrence Brown: Yeah. I mean, in that piece I really try to outline that many of the cities that we’re seeing have the most impact from COVID-19, are indeed hyper-segregated cities and hyper- segregation as a category discussed by several scholars. But, really Douglas Massey, who wrote the book American apartheid with his colleague Nancy, didn’t. Him and his colleagues really outline the multiple ways that cities can be segregated and they use five measures, concentration, centralization, clustering, isolation and unevenness. When cities ranked over a score of 60 on any one of those measures, they gain one of the categories and the five categories that they use were low, moderate, highly segregated, and then hyper segregation, category four and hyper segregation, category five.
So, you have those five ways or categories you can look at for hyper-segregation. Cities like Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago, are category five hyper-segregated cities, if you’d like to use the analogy of a hurricane. Those are the cities that have the most intense form of hyper-segregation. It turns out that many of the cities that have the highest levels of COVID-19, are also hyper-segregated. New York is a category four hyper-segregated city. Chicago, category five. Milwaukee, category five. St Louis, category five, and so there is no mistake in my mind that when you look at the high numbers of cases, hyper- segregation is at the root. The issue with segregation in America, it’s not just white and black people living separately from each other. It’s what happens to neighborhoods when it comes to the allocation of resources. That’s the issue. With hyper-segregation, you have the hyper-accumulation of resources in white communities and the hyper-deprivation of resources in the black communities. That’s what happens with hyper- segregation and we’re seeing that play out with the COVID-19 epidemic.
Jaisal Noor: I was looking at some numbers from the Economic Policy Institute. If you are, low income, if you’re a person of color, if you are African-American, you are far less likely to be able to work from home or work remotely. That, I think is putting, especially people of color on the front lines, where a lot of them are making huge sacrifices. We saw Chris Smalls, the Amazon worker, he got smeared as being inarticulate, trying to just have basic safety measures for his fellow workers. We’re seeing suffering, but also we’re seeing resilience, despite these tremendous odds as well.
Lawrence Brown: Absolutely. I think, what I’m really concerned about with the information coming out that African-Americans are disproportionally impacted is that there isn’t enough emphasis being put on the spatial dimension of why African-Americans are the most impacted. It’s not just because we bear a higher rate of disease, which again is due to hyper-segregation. But even think about workers who live in redline, black communities to get to those jobs, they have to travel further because those jobs aren’t in their communities. So, if they’re traveling further, if they’re using public transportation because of the racial income and the racial wealth gaps, they’re traveling further to low-wage jobs on public transportation to get to places where there they have to work as essential workers, then they’re going to be more exposed to COVID-19.
Think about going to get food. If the grocery store that you need to get to is not in your neighborhood, you have to travel a further, a longer distance, then that too, is adding to your risk. Even the spacial nature of our cities, where resources aren’t located in black communities, if people need to go to jobs, if they need to get food, they’re having to travel longer distances, more likely use public transportation, if they don’t have cars and therefore more exposed, both in terms of in- transit and more exposed in terms of being not able to work from home.
Jaisal Noor: An Amazon worker from Chicago, we talked to, Christian Zamarron said, he said it plainly, “We are considered essential workers, but we’re treated like disposable,” because on top of everything you said, they’re also not getting, basic safety gear. They’re not being allowed to socially distance in their workplace and oftentimes you’re seeing people … Amazon CEO was worth over $120 billion and he’s not letting … He’s firing people that are trying to raise awareness of safety. This all begs the question, these conditions existed before the pandemic, which you’ve written about extensively and this is so, coronavirus is only making worse the issues that we already are dealing with.
But the question now is, how do we use this to organize? We just did a story about Spain where, the Left parties are coming together and saying, “Look, we need to start giving the people who need it, money in their pockets every week, every month, to make sure that they can make ends meet even after this is over. They’re trying to fight to make that permanent. In America, it seems we’re seeing an actual shock doctrine because these big corporations are getting bailouts, but you don’t see communities getting bailouts and so far, 1200 bucks, one time check, that’s not going to cut it for a lot of people.
Lawrence Brown: Well, I like the way you just said, communities being bailed out, because if you look at hyper-segregation and how redline, black communities are being the most impacted, then I think you would be talking about the way we need to have emergency response really being allocated towards communities in Milwaukee. It’s North Milwaukee where African Americans live that have the highest rate of COVID-19 exposure and death. In St Louis, I’m pretty sure it’s north of Delmar Road. Detroit, south of 8-Mile Road. In Baltimore, the Black Butterfly. When you look at the spatial layout of these cities the maps show, then they will show the more we accumulate data, that black neighborhoods are the ones that are most impacted. Latin-X communities will be very much impacted. Native American communities and reservations would be very much and disproportionately impacted. So, those communities actually need a greater level of emergency response.
I don’t mean, militarized hyper-policing in terms of response. I mean, actually what we should have is an army of community health workers, really deployed in these communities compensated well, which would help the employment issue. But, actually folks going out, because it’s not says a matter of the word not getting out, or us really trying to address this issue. It’s also a trust factor that we have to address. Many people of color do not trust the healthcare system and the messaging, if you look at it, is not going out in a way that really speaks to the different cultural communities that we have in this nation. We really should be utilizing community health workers in a much stronger way, even going door to door with protective equipment to check on folks. Even though there’s this distancing, physical distancing that we have to have, there shouldn’t be social distancing in terms of the community and being able to look out for each other.
Physical distancing, yes, but pulling away from our social connections and social bonds with each other, I think that’s a mistake. I think organizing, really should take place in that way. Organizing, if you look at the Black Panther party, they were health organizers. The Black Panther party, they started free breakfast for children, free health clinics, free ambulance services. There is a precedent for organizing around health justice and I think we have to start in this moment to ensure that we bring the pandemic to an end, number one, and then make sure people are getting through it in the recovery phase. That goes to your point about income supports weekly, not just a one-time check that comes way too late after rent is due, but making sure we’re looking at all of these factors to make sure people are able to make it through this current apocalypse.
Jaisal Noor: Finally, we can expect the shock doctrine where elites use crises to implement harsh measures, they won’t, wouldn’t normally be able to. The Baltimore Police just tried to pass through, or just got their spy plane program. An actress had to go to court for that. But some of the public hearings we’re online, which makes it harder to … the Democratic National convention is probably going to be online now, which makes it harder to organize, to have disruptions, which are an essential tactic of organization too. What are your thoughts? People like, it’s a lot of Democratic mayors that are in charge of these cities, that aren’t letting prisoners out of these hotspots for COVID-19 transmission even until it’s too late.
We saw it happen in Sing Sing and Rikers Island, and you have people like Democratic Governor, Andrew Cuomo, who using this crisis to cut health spending and has rolled back progressive bail reform. There’s not much opposition to that. Do people need to start looking at this seriously, going forward?
Lawrence Brown: Absolutely. I mean, one reason you have Democratic mayors that are engaging in regressive emergency response practices and policies, again, is because of urban apartheid. That’s what they’re used to actually doing in normal times. So, when you have a pandemic coming, that’s your automatic reflex. You’re not going to push with vigor, the type of protections that are needed during the pandemic. If you’ve been used to evicting people and engaging in foreclosures, and having high levels of food insecurity, and desegregating cities, not just in terms of where people live, but desegregating the resources in those cities.
If you’re not doing that in normal times, what hope do we have that those folks will be doing that in the time of pandemic? That’s why I think we have to focus on hyper-segregation as the root because that’s what’s actually, that is what help cause the problem, the anticipation of the pandemic, and this was actually styming the type of responses that are really needed. One thing I should also mention is that,, really Baltimore is the home of American apartheid, it’s the home of urban apartheid in America. In 1910, Baltimore, Mayor John Barry Mahool, passed the first racial zoning law in America. If you look at that decade, after 1910, one of the reasons racial segregation was instituted, was because of public health. There was a disease, an infectious disease spreading at the time, and African-Americans were blamed for the disproportionate rate of disease that they had.
That disease was tuberculosis. There were other diseases like cholera, yellow fever. People recognized even then, that it was the living conditions, the segregated, alley housing the African-Americans lived in, that was contributing to that cause. But yet, and still, because of the disproportionality that African-Americans had with those diseases, that was used as a rationale by White Baltimorians is to help intensify racial segregation. My fear is, in what way might the notion that black people have a higher burden of this disease? Might that help in fact, cause history to repeat itself if we’re not careful. That again, public health can be used to help justify and intensify racial segregation, which again, racial segregation is weaponized economically. I think that’s why we have to really think deeply and look at how the intersection of space, place and race, all play a role in the way that we look at pandemics. Because, otherwise what we’ll have is people looking to hyper-police and hyper-segregate black communities even more because they’re bearing a greater burden of disease even though it’s hyper-segregation, that’s actually the root and cause behind it.
Jaisal Noor: That is a powerful note to end on. Dr. Lawrence Brown, and thank you. Obviously raising Baltimore, because you spent a lot of time here, you made great contributions to this city and you can keep giving these contributions. We all appreciate it here. Thank you so much for joining us.
Lawrence Brown: Absolutely. Power up to the Black Butterfly.
Jaisal Noor: Thank you for joining us at the Real News Network.
Related
Republish This Story Republish our articles for free, online or in print, under a Creative Commons license.


therealnews--2020-04-13--Drug Dealers Practice Social Distancing; Police Cough On Residents

This is a rush transcript and may contain errors ; it will be updated .
Speaker 3 : Hey .
Yo , it ’ s the friendly with the shiny cheeks .
Speaker 4 : A viral video captures a Baltimore police sergeant coughing on residents of a public housing complex .
The police say he ’ s under investigation , but the clip speaks to the impact of coronavirus in cities like Baltimore where law enforcement is best described as an occupying force in the so-called war on drugs .
Now joining us to discuss this is Brandon Soderberg @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the new Filter Magazine piece , Baltimore Harm Reduction Grapples With the Crisis , co-author of the forthcoming book , I Got a Monster : The Rise and Fall of America ’ s Most Corrupt Police Squad .
So Brandon , thanks for joining us .
Your response to this latest viral… just the latest viral incident captured on film with the Baltimore Police Department , and in that vein , the Real News ’ s own Cameron Granadino captured this footage of the Baltimore police harassing an Amazon delivery worker during the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of police is outrageous .
I believe it ’ s in Perkins Homes from the look of it .
I haven ’ t actually checked .
I should have .
But you see a police officer approach a woman in Perkins Homes and they ’ re kind of giving each other the business the way people often do to Baltimore police .
He kind of walks by and sort of dramatically coughs at her direction .
This sort of language that a lot of people have used I guess to cover their ass @ @ @ @ @ @ @ s doing this or not .
I mean , I guess it appears he ’ s doing that , but it ’ s pretty clear that ’ s what he ’ s doing .
I certainly don ’ t know .
I think it was probably meant in the sort of darkest jest of the Baltimore Police Department have a lot of contempt for Baltimore citizens , and then it comes at a time where a whole police station has been sort of quarantined for a few days because of a potential outbreak @ @ @ @ @ @ @ example of a lack of police respect for the community and even the basic protocols that the rest of us have kind of all absorbed already , which is wearing masks , not coughing on people , maintaining distance , those kinds of things .
And of course , on top of all of the problems Amazon workers have right now because they work for Amazon , that a police officer would engage someone who ’ s essentially delivering a package is… it ’ s outrageous .
It ’ s not a surprise @ @ @ @ @ @ @ cannabis dispensaries , which are legal in Maryland , are open because they ’ re considered essential businesses .
But you cited a tweet from Baltimore , Councilman Leon Pinkett on March 24th .
He said , “ Yesterday the gov shut down all nonessential biz .
Meanwhile , this morning at Penn and North drug dealers are wearing gloves and masks .
Forgot dealing is an essential business , at least in some parts of Baltimore .
While we ’ re flattening the curve , how about we enforce the law ?
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ new article with this scene , setting up this scene .
Can you respond to that ?
Brandon Soderbe… : Sure .
I mean , maybe the first place to begin would be like the clear implication here , whether you ’ re from what I wrote about in my Filter piece about seeing drug dealers wearing masks and gloves or what Councilman Pinkett saw and was offended by is , my immediate thing is that they seem to be doing a better job than Baltimore Police Department who ’ s not wearing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ distancing and is sort of vindictively coughing on people in contrast to drug dealers who we all vilify who seem to be at least the ones I ’ ve been speaking to for the piece , including one on the record and a few on background that harm reduction , which does not seem to be as important to the Baltimore Police Department , is still very important to even drug dealers to kind of use the language of council person Pinkett .
I mean , the major problem with Counselman ’ s @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people in jail and we shouldn ’ t be enforcing the drug war .
We certainly shouldn ’ t be enforcing the drug war during a pandemic .
What I saw is another example of how the most vulnerable people , people who use drugs , people who deal with drugs , which often intersects , are surprisingly being very mindful at doing the best they can at harm reduction while a larger organization such , again , as the police are not .
I would say that , yeah , the idea @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have legal medicinal cannabis , is medicinal cannabis dispensaries are open because people need it for medicine .
The most extreme cases… I mean , there ’ s people who just need to relax , they have PTSD or anxiety .
But the most extreme cases are severe , intense pain , or it ’ s the only way they can eat .
That ’ s why dispensaries are open .
Same reason liquor stores are open .
They ’ re open because if you have people that need liquor and they ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to get sick .
You can die from alcohol withdrawal .
It also isn ’ t crowding hospitals , in a moment we don ’ t need to crowd hospitals .
In that vein , I would argue actually that drug dealers are totally essential businesses because they ’ re doing the same thing .
They ’ re providing people with something that people need that if they don ’ t get it , they ’ re going to get more desperate , get more sick , cause more problems .
Just the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ which my article kind of deals with , has created a lot of concern and a lot of panic within the community , both with people who use drugs and people who deal drugs .
They don ’ t know when the next sort of supply ’ s coming in .
They don ’ t where their money ’ s coming in .
Also , I learned from talking to people that there ’ s people from the county that are kind of coming in and trying to buy bulks , sort of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ kind of coming in like it ’ s a Costco or something and trying to scoop up as much dope as they can to go back to their county because they don ’ t know when they ’ re going to be able to get it or whether or not we ’ re going to leave our house .
So in that sense , I think that if you think of drug dealing as an underground economy , as an economy with customers and buyers and a market that arises and fluctuates , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ all aboveground markets are , and we need to think about that and the problems that causes , I think especially , which kind of the second chunk of my article kind of deals with is , especially if people who use drugs , the most vulnerable people who use drugs are often people experiencing homelessness who now don ’ t have even the basic access they once had .
They are social distancing in vacant homes as best they can , which is almost an impossibility .
That ’ s all this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Reduction Coalition , who I spoke to for the piece and kind of got a sense of how they were doing their outreach amid COVID-19 were doing .
As they ’ re going to people , [ inaudible 00:06:31 ] with information , giving them safe supplies , also just giving them water , and sometimes just listening to them .
There ’ s a lot of misinformation out there because of COVID-19 especially when you think about if you ’ re someone experiencing homelessness , the Starbucks bathroom is not accessible to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Noble that ’ s playing CNN , that might be one of your rare chances to see the news or charge your phone and get the news on your phone , all those things are eliminated and it creates misinformation and fear .
I just kind of wanted to address that mostly from a economic perspective from this is an economy that ’ s destroyed right now and really disrupted and we need to kind of think about that .
Speaker 4 : Yeah , and it ’ s especially workers in a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ right now that don ’ t have the privilege to social distance or to work from home as the numbers bear out .
But you also note how countries like Canada , who have taken very different approaches to the war on drugs , are also approaching this crisis very differently and putting forth some , what might sound like radical ideas in the US , but are actually just common sense .
Can you talk about that a little bit ?
Brandon Soderbe… : Sure .
I ’ m going to be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ country other than the United States who ’ s doing a better job at all of these things , and we should just be more like Canada .
But in this case , we should totally be more like Canada or Europe or a lot of other countries because , in particular , Canada has , what are often called , safe consumption sites and overdose prevention sites .
They ’ ve had those for a very long time , which are essentially sites where people are allowed to come and safely inject @ @ @ @ @ @ @ been a fight in America for a while to get these .
We kind of had a couple earlier this year , moments of hope .
There are some tension between the… Philadelphia ’ s been trying to open one .
They want a federal ruling .
And then there ’ s sort of this neighborhood nimbyism against it .
In Baltimore , there was a bill to look into it .
There was a state bill in Maryland to look at it to start these safe consumption sites in Maryland up because @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that ’ s sort of been dashed away because of the pandemic .
I mean , that ’ s another thing is when Maryland legislative session ended , they kind of prioritize certain bills they felt like they needed to get through before they ended the session .
To me , inexplicably starting safe consumption sites was not one of those bills and kind of just got pushed to the side .
Why that ’ s important is because what you ’ re seeing in Canada right now , especially in parts of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ ve read and talked to .
I ’ m not an expert on this side of it , but I ’ m learning from Canadian Harm Reduction as they ’ ve been reporting this out .
What they ’ re doing there is they ’ ve been turning their safe consumption sites into mobile services , so therefore no people crowding inside , no people lining up outside .
You encourage social distancing and you still give people a safe place to do drugs , which they need to do or if @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you have , even kind of more radical than that is in British Columbia there has been a launch of safer supply , which is essentially doctors providing prescription drugs , like such as opioids or amphetamine or anything to people who need them because they ’ re dependent on them .
So you have this idea that you don ’ t want the supply to be tainted .
You don ’ t want someone who has COVID-19 to touch .
You don ’ t know where your drugs are coming from .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ at risk of being arrested .
So there ’ s been this kind of radical launch in British Columbia that ’ s just getting started to introduce a safer supply and provide people with the drugs they need or a variation of the drugs they need .
So they ’ re not going to get pure heroin from the government .
They ’ re going to get some kind of opioid .
That ’ s been kind of a smart way to hopefully fix some of the problems that a disruption of the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ pandemic .
Then in British Columbia , because they have supervised injection sites or safe consumption sites , there ’ s just kind of nice marriage between medical professionals giving safer supply and providing a space to use it .
So it ’ s actually allowing people who use drugs to have more freedom and more autonomy and less fear and do the drug they either need to do because it keeps them up and they can function or want to do , which I think is another thing .
We shouldn ’ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ’ s desire or interest in doing drugs for even recreational reasons if they want to do it .
We should make that as safe as possible .
Speaker 4 : That makes sense because in Baltimore alone , hundreds of people die of overdose .
More people die of overdose than homicides , which grabs all the headlines .
But there ’ s been no fatalities in safe injection sites , like we ’ ve seen around the world .
But just hopefully coming to the US soon because that would be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ crisis instead of criminalizing most vulnerable populations .
Brandon Soderberg , thank you so much for joining us .
You ’ re going to stay with us for a second part of this interview .
So our viewers should stay tuned for that , too .
Speaker 4 : And thank you for joining us at the Real News Network .
Speaker 6 : Thanks a lot for watching .
Appreciate it .
But do us one more song favor , hit the subscribe button below .
You know you want to .
@ @ @ @ @ @

COVID-19 is felt differently in cities like Baltimore where police act like an occupying force.
Story Transcript
This is a rush transcript and may contain errors; it will be updated.
Speaker 1: For real. [crosstalk 00:00:00] fucked up.
Speaker 2: [crosstalk 00:00:07].
Speaker 3: Hey. Yo, it’s the friendly with the shiny cheeks.
Speaker 4: A viral video captures a Baltimore police sergeant coughing on residents of a public housing complex. The police say he’s under investigation, but the clip speaks to the impact of coronavirus in cities like Baltimore where law enforcement is best described as an occupying force in the so-called war on drugs.
Now joining us to discuss this is Brandon Soderberg. He’s the author of the new Filter Magazine piece, Baltimore Harm Reduction Grapples With the Crisis, co-author of the forthcoming book, I Got a Monster: The Rise and Fall of America’s Most Corrupt Police Squad. So Brandon, thanks for joining us. Your response to this latest viral… just the latest viral incident captured on film with the Baltimore Police Department, and in that vein, the Real News’s own Cameron Granadino captured this footage of the Baltimore police harassing an Amazon delivery worker during the pandemic.
Brandon Soderbe…: This video of police is outrageous. I believe it’s in Perkins Homes from the look of it. I haven’t actually checked. I should have. But you see a police officer approach a woman in Perkins Homes and they’re kind of giving each other the business the way people often do to Baltimore police. He kind of walks by and sort of dramatically coughs at her direction. This sort of language that a lot of people have used I guess to cover their ass of being like it appears he’s doing this or not. I mean, I guess it appears he’s doing that, but it’s pretty clear that’s what he’s doing. I certainly don’t know. I think it was probably meant in the sort of darkest jest of the Baltimore Police Department have a lot of contempt for Baltimore citizens, and then it comes at a time where a whole police station has been sort of quarantined for a few days because of a potential outbreak of COVID-19.
It just shows another example of a lack of police respect for the community and even the basic protocols that the rest of us have kind of all absorbed already, which is wearing masks, not coughing on people, maintaining distance, those kinds of things. And of course, on top of all of the problems Amazon workers have right now because they work for Amazon, that a police officer would engage someone who’s essentially delivering a package is… it’s outrageous. It’s not a surprise though.
Speaker 4: So medical cannabis dispensaries, which are legal in Maryland, are open because they’re considered essential businesses. But you cited a tweet from Baltimore, Councilman Leon Pinkett on March 24th. He said, “Yesterday the gov shut down all nonessential biz. Meanwhile, this morning at Penn and North drug dealers are wearing gloves and masks. Forgot dealing is an essential business, at least in some parts of Baltimore. While we’re flattening the curve, how about we enforce the law? #accountability.” You started off your new article with this scene, setting up this scene. Can you respond to that?
Brandon Soderbe…: Sure. I mean, maybe the first place to begin would be like the clear implication here, whether you’re from what I wrote about in my Filter piece about seeing drug dealers wearing masks and gloves or what Councilman Pinkett saw and was offended by is, my immediate thing is that they seem to be doing a better job than Baltimore Police Department who’s not wearing masks, who’s not socially distancing and is sort of vindictively coughing on people in contrast to drug dealers who we all vilify who seem to be at least the ones I’ve been speaking to for the piece, including one on the record and a few on background that harm reduction, which does not seem to be as important to the Baltimore Police Department, is still very important to even drug dealers to kind of use the language of council person Pinkett.
I mean, the major problem with Counselman’s take there is he wants to put people in jail and we shouldn’t be enforcing the drug war. We certainly shouldn’t be enforcing the drug war during a pandemic. What I saw is another example of how the most vulnerable people, people who use drugs, people who deal with drugs, which often intersects, are surprisingly being very mindful at doing the best they can at harm reduction while a larger organization such, again, as the police are not.
I would say that, yeah, the idea in Maryland right now, and we have legal medicinal cannabis, is medicinal cannabis dispensaries are open because people need it for medicine. The most extreme cases… I mean, there’s people who just need to relax, they have PTSD or anxiety. But the most extreme cases are severe, intense pain, or it’s the only way they can eat. That’s why dispensaries are open. Same reason liquor stores are open. They’re open because if you have people that need liquor and they’re withdrawing, they then are going to get sick. You can die from alcohol withdrawal. It also isn’t crowding hospitals, in a moment we don’t need to crowd hospitals.
In that vein, I would argue actually that drug dealers are totally essential businesses because they’re doing the same thing. They’re providing people with something that people need that if they don’t get it, they’re going to get more desperate, get more sick, cause more problems. Just the simple disruption of the drug supply, which my article kind of deals with, has created a lot of concern and a lot of panic within the community, both with people who use drugs and people who deal drugs. They don’t know when the next sort of supply’s coming in. They don’t where their money’s coming in.
Also, I learned from talking to people that there’s people from the county that are kind of coming in and trying to buy bulks, sort of the white face of the opioid crisis kind of coming in like it’s a Costco or something and trying to scoop up as much dope as they can to go back to their county because they don’t know when they’re going to be able to get it or whether or not we’re going to leave our house.
So in that sense, I think that if you think of drug dealing as an underground economy, as an economy with customers and buyers and a market that arises and fluctuates, that market has been disrupted just like all aboveground markets are, and we need to think about that and the problems that causes, I think especially, which kind of the second chunk of my article kind of deals with is, especially if people who use drugs, the most vulnerable people who use drugs are often people experiencing homelessness who now don’t have even the basic access they once had. They are social distancing in vacant homes as best they can, which is almost an impossibility. That’s all this sort of thing that the Baltimore Harm Reduction Coalition, who I spoke to for the piece and kind of got a sense of how they were doing their outreach amid COVID-19 were doing.
As they’re going to people, [inaudible 00:06:31] with information, giving them safe supplies, also just giving them water, and sometimes just listening to them. There’s a lot of misinformation out there because of COVID-19 especially when you think about if you’re someone experiencing homelessness, the Starbucks bathroom is not accessible to you right now. The Barnes and Noble that’s playing CNN, that might be one of your rare chances to see the news or charge your phone and get the news on your phone, all those things are eliminated and it creates misinformation and fear.
I just kind of wanted to address that mostly from a economic perspective from this is an economy that’s destroyed right now and really disrupted and we need to kind of think about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it’s especially workers in a precarious condition that are losing their job right now that don’t have the privilege to social distance or to work from home as the numbers bear out. But you also note how countries like Canada, who have taken very different approaches to the war on drugs, are also approaching this crisis very differently and putting forth some, what might sound like radical ideas in the US, but are actually just common sense. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Brandon Soderbe…: Sure. I’m going to be one of those guys who cites a country other than the United States who’s doing a better job at all of these things, and we should just be more like Canada. But in this case, we should totally be more like Canada or Europe or a lot of other countries because, in particular, Canada has, what are often called, safe consumption sites and overdose prevention sites. They’ve had those for a very long time, which are essentially sites where people are allowed to come and safely inject or use drugs.
There’s been a fight in America for a while to get these. We kind of had a couple earlier this year, moments of hope. There are some tension between the… Philadelphia’s been trying to open one. They want a federal ruling. And then there’s sort of this neighborhood nimbyism against it. In Baltimore, there was a bill to look into it. There was a state bill in Maryland to look at it to start these safe consumption sites in Maryland up because of the opiod crisis. All of that’s sort of been dashed away because of the pandemic.
I mean, that’s another thing is when Maryland legislative session ended, they kind of prioritize certain bills they felt like they needed to get through before they ended the session. To me, inexplicably starting safe consumption sites was not one of those bills and kind of just got pushed to the side. Why that’s important is because what you’re seeing in Canada right now, especially in parts of British Columbia… This is just what I’ve read and talked to. I’m not an expert on this side of it, but I’m learning from Canadian Harm Reduction as they’ve been reporting this out.
What they’re doing there is they’ve been turning their safe consumption sites into mobile services, so therefore no people crowding inside, no people lining up outside. You encourage social distancing and you still give people a safe place to do drugs, which they need to do or if they want to do. Then what you have, even kind of more radical than that is in British Columbia there has been a launch of safer supply, which is essentially doctors providing prescription drugs, like such as opioids or amphetamine or anything to people who need them because they’re dependent on them. So you have this idea that you don’t want the supply to be tainted. You don’t want someone who has COVID-19 to touch. You don’t know where your drugs are coming from. The transportation of drugs puts people more at risk of being arrested.
So there’s been this kind of radical launch in British Columbia that’s just getting started to introduce a safer supply and provide people with the drugs they need or a variation of the drugs they need. So they’re not going to get pure heroin from the government. They’re going to get some kind of opioid. That’s been kind of a smart way to hopefully fix some of the problems that a disruption of the drug market does, especially during a pandemic.
Then in British Columbia, because they have supervised injection sites or safe consumption sites, there’s just kind of nice marriage between medical professionals giving safer supply and providing a space to use it. So it’s actually allowing people who use drugs to have more freedom and more autonomy and less fear and do the drug they either need to do because it keeps them up and they can function or want to do, which I think is another thing. We shouldn’t sort of underrate or dismiss people’s desire or interest in doing drugs for even recreational reasons if they want to do it. We should make that as safe as possible.
Speaker 4: That makes sense because in Baltimore alone, hundreds of people die of overdose. More people die of overdose than homicides, which grabs all the headlines. But there’s been no fatalities in safe injection sites, like we’ve seen around the world. But just hopefully coming to the US soon because that would be treating this crisis as a public health crisis instead of criminalizing most vulnerable populations.
Brandon Soderberg, thank you so much for joining us. You’re going to stay with us for a second part of this interview. So our viewers should stay tuned for that, too.
Brandon Soderbe…: Thanks.
Speaker 4: And thank you for joining us at the Real News Network.
Speaker 6: Thanks a lot for watching. Appreciate it. But do us one more song favor, hit the subscribe button below. You know you want to. Stay up on new videos.
Related
Republish This Story Republish our articles for free, online or in print, under a Creative Commons license.