alternet--2020-12-10--Limbaugh says the US may be 'trending toward secession' — and ‘peaceful coexistence’ could be imposs

Limbaugh says the US may be 'trending toward secession' — and ‘peaceful coexistence’ could be impossible

During his long career in talk radio , Rush Limbaugh has thrived on us-versus-them rhetoric — claiming that that liberals and progressives have a viewpoint that is diametrically opposed to true Americanism .
And during his December 9 broadcast , the far-right radio host argued that the divisions between Red America and Blue America are so huge that `` secession '' might be inevitable .
The 69-year-old Limbaugh told listeners , `` I actually think — and I 've referenced this , I 've alluded to this a couple of times because I 've seen others allude to this — @ @ @ @ @ @ @ toward secession .
I see more and more people asking what in the world do we have in common with the people who live in , say , New York ?
What is there that makes us believe that there is enough of us there to even have a chance at winning New York ?
Especially if you 're talking about votes . ''
Limbaugh went on to say that Red America and Blue America might have reached the point where agreeing to disagree is no longer possible .
`` A lot of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and separated and how much more separated our culture is becoming politically and that it ca n't go on this way , '' Limbaugh argued .
`` There can not be a peaceful coexistence of two completely different theories of life , theories of government , theories of how we manage our affairs .
We ca n't be in this dire a conflict without something giving somewhere along the way . ''
Although President-elect Joe Biden enjoyed a decisive win in the 2020 presidential election — winning 306 electoral votes and defeating President @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in the popular vote — most Republicans in Congress have been afraid to publicly acknowledge that Biden won .
They are afraid of being attacked by Trump on Twitter or slammed by Limbaugh or another far-right pundits .
Yet Limbaugh claimed that `` RINOs '' — Republicans in Name Only — are doing a lot to prevent conservatism from prevailing in the U.S. '' I know that there 's a sizable and growing sentiment for people who believe that ( secession ) is where we 're headed , whether we want to or @ @ @ @ @ @ @ there or not , '' Limbaugh told listeners .
`` I myself have n't made up my mind .
I still have n't given up the idea that we are the majority and that all we have to do is find a way to unite and win .
And our problem is the fact that there are just so many RINOs , so many Republicans in the Washington establishment who will do anything to maintain their membership in the establishment because of the perks and the opportunities that are presented for their kids @ @ @ @ @

During his long career in talk radio, Rush Limbaugh has thrived on us-versus-them rhetoric — claiming that that liberals and progressives have a viewpoint that is diametrically opposed to true Americanism. And during his December 9 broadcast, the far-right radio host argued that the divisions between Red America and Blue America are so huge that "secession" might be inevitable.
The 69-year-old Limbaugh told listeners, "I actually think — and I've referenced this, I've alluded to this a couple of times because I've seen others allude to this — I actually think that we're trending toward secession. I see more and more people asking what in the world do we have in common with the people who live in, say, New York? What is there that makes us believe that there is enough of us there to even have a chance at winning New York? Especially if you're talking about votes."
Limbaugh went on to say that Red America and Blue America might have reached the point where agreeing to disagree is no longer possible.
"A lot of bloggers have written extensively about how distant and separated and how much more separated our culture is becoming politically and that it can't go on this way," Limbaugh argued. "There cannot be a peaceful coexistence of two completely different theories of life, theories of government, theories of how we manage our affairs. We can't be in this dire a conflict without something giving somewhere along the way."
Although President-elect Joe Biden enjoyed a decisive win in the 2020 presidential election — winning 306 electoral votes and defeating President Donald Trump by more than 7 million in the popular vote — most Republicans in Congress have been afraid to publicly acknowledge that Biden won. They are afraid of being attacked by Trump on Twitter or slammed by Limbaugh or another far-right pundits. Yet Limbaugh claimed that "RINOs" — Republicans in Name Only — are doing a lot to prevent conservatism from prevailing in the U.S.
"I know that there's a sizable and growing sentiment for people who believe that (secession) is where we're headed, whether we want to or not — whether we want to go there or not," Limbaugh told listeners. "I myself haven't made up my mind. I still haven't given up the idea that we are the majority and that all we have to do is find a way to unite and win. And our problem is the fact that there are just so many RINOs, so many Republicans in the Washington establishment who will do anything to maintain their membership in the establishment because of the perks and the opportunities that are presented for their kids and so forth."


alternet--2020-12-10--'Fox & Friends' apoplectic over 'biased' YouTube banning videos promoting election fraud lies

`` Fox & Friends '' host Brian Kilmeade is furious over YouTube 's decision to ban videos that promote the @ @ @ @ @ election fraud that handed the election to Joe Biden .
`` Big tech YouTube is @ @ @ @ @ any conversations or postings about election fraud is not going to be posted on YouTube @ @ @ @ @ `` More than a month after the U.S. presidential election , '' the AP reports @ @ @ @ @ will start removing newly uploaded material that claims widespread voter fraud or errors changed the @ @ @ @ @ claimed YouTube was banning `` any conversations or postings about election fraud . ''
`` @ @ @ @ @ '' Kilmeade continued , claiming an interview he conducted would be banned .
`` But @ @ @ @ @ 's unbelievable the way these big tech companies are flat out taking the incoming and @ @ @ @ @ want the outcome .
The outcome is Joe Biden is president , '' he admitted @ @ @ @ @ more of an example of them doing it . ''

"Fox & Friends" host Brian Kilmeade is furious over YouTube's decision to ban videos that promote the lie that there was widespread election fraud that handed the election to Joe Biden.
"Big tech YouTube is the latest to decide that any conversations or postings about election fraud is not going to be posted on YouTube," Kilmeade ranted.
Kilmeade has the facts wrong.
"More than a month after the U.S. presidential election," the AP reports, "YouTube says it will start removing newly uploaded material that claims widespread voter fraud or errors changed the outcome."
Kilmeade wrongly claimed YouTube was banning "any conversations or postings about election fraud."
"I'm very disappointed," Kilmeade continued, claiming an interview he conducted would be banned. "But in all seriousness, it's unbelievable the way these big tech companies are flat out taking the incoming and being biased because they just want the outcome. The outcome is Joe Biden is president," he admitted. "And this is more of an example of them doing it."
Watch:


alternet--2020-12-10--'A sad sack': Pennsylvania AG slams Ted Cruz over effort to overthrow election results in 4 key stat

'A sad sack': Pennsylvania AG slams Ted Cruz over effort to overthrow election results in 4 key states

Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro ( D ) weighed in with stark disapproval of Texas ' election lawsuit to overturn the results in four battleground states including Pennsylvania , as well as Sen. Ted Cruz ' ( R-TX ) offer to argue the case before the Supreme Court .
Two sources reportedly told CNN that `` President Trump personally asked Sen. Ted Cruz ( R-TX ) if he would argue a long-shot election lawsuit seeking to overturn the election results in four battleground states , should the Supreme Court agree to take it up . ''
During an appearance on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Cuomo on Wednesday evening as he shared his opinion of the frivolous lawsuit .
Without mincing words , Shapiro described the Texas senator as `` a sad sack . ''
Like Shapiro , Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel ( D ) has also spoken out with a similar rebuke of Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton .
During an appearance on MSNBC , she voiced her concerns about Paxton and the lawsuit .
Nessel also noted that Paxton , himself , is under federal investigation which raises further questions about his own credibility , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Paxton , the attorney general , the state of Texas , has been under federal indictment for quite some time , '' said Nessel .
`` The FBI continues to investigate him , not just for securities fraud but for a variety of other matters , and I think this is as clear signal that he is sending to President Trump requesting a presidential pardon , and that 's it .
It 's a last-ditch effort . ''
Nessel continued , `` I 've never seen anything like this .
I do n't @ @ @ @ @ @ @ who has seen anything like this before , it is so incredibly outrageous .
And I will say this to General Paxton , if he 's watching , you know who voted for you in Michigan , General Paxton ?
No one .
Literally no one .
So , stay in your lane , and stick to trying to disenfranchise voters in your own state .
Do n't come to mine . ''
Despite most of Trump 's election lawsuits being dismissed or outright rejected by federal judges and the U.S. Supreme Court @ @ @ @ @ @ @ file more lawsuits in courts across the country in an effort to delay the Electoral College vote set for Dec. 14 .

Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro (D) weighed in with stark disapproval of Texas' election lawsuit to overturn the results in four battleground states including Pennsylvania, as well as Sen. Ted Cruz' (R-TX) offer to argue the case before the Supreme Court.
Two sources reportedly told CNN that "President Trump personally asked Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) if he would argue a long-shot election lawsuit seeking to overturn the election results in four battleground states, should the Supreme Court agree to take it up."
During an appearance on CNN, Shapiro spoke with host Chris Cuomo on Wednesday evening as he shared his opinion of the frivolous lawsuit. Without mincing words, Shapiro described the Texas senator as "a sad sack."
Like Shapiro, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel (D) has also spoken out with a similar rebuke of Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton. During an appearance on MSNBC, she voiced her concerns about Paxton and the lawsuit. Nessel also noted that Paxton, himself, is under federal investigation which raises further questions about his own credibility, per Click on Detroit.
"Ken Paxton, the attorney general, the state of Texas, has been under federal indictment for quite some time," said Nessel. "The FBI continues to investigate him, not just for securities fraud but for a variety of other matters, and I think this is as clear signal that he is sending to President Trump requesting a presidential pardon, and that's it. It's a last-ditch effort."
Nessel continued, "I've never seen anything like this. I don't know if I have talked to anyone who has seen anything like this before, it is so incredibly outrageous. And I will say this to General Paxton, if he's watching, you know who voted for you in Michigan, General Paxton? No one. Literally no one. So, stay in your lane, and stick to trying to disenfranchise voters in your own state. Don't come to mine."
Despite most of Trump's election lawsuits being dismissed or outright rejected by federal judges and the U.S. Supreme Court, his Republican allies are continuing to file more lawsuits in courts across the country in an effort to delay the Electoral College vote set for Dec. 14.


alternet--2020-12-10--Here’s the real reason Trump may veto the defense funding bill: Ex-IRS investigator

President Donald Trump has threatened to veto the bipartisan National Defense Authorization Act , which Congress has passed and presidents have signed for 59 years .
The outgoing president objects to provision for changing the names of military bases honoring Confederate historical figures and preserving part of the 1996 Telecommunications Act protecting tech companies from liability for user-generated content — but there may actually be a more self-serving reason for his recalcitrance , reported The Daily Beast .
`` None of that explains why he 'd risk a humiliating veto override to shoot down a popular bipartisan bill , '' @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for the Internal Revenue Service .
`` One thing that would explain his bizarre position here is another add-on : one that could expose financial arrangements that Trump would prefer to keep hidden . ''
That add-on is the Illicit Cash Act , which would modernize federal money laundering laws by requiring shell companies to report their beneficial owners .
`` Currently , the U.S. is at the bottom of the pack with respect to corporate transparency , '' said Rep. Carolyn Maloney ( D-NY ) , who has been pushing for the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ states , more personal information is needed to obtain a library card than to establish a legal entity that can be used to facilitate tax evasion , money laundering , fraud , and corruption .
The U.S has been identified in several studies as one of the easiest jurisdictions in which to open an anonymous company . ''
That legislation would have prevented the Trump family from setting up shell companies that allowed the president 's father Fred Trump from making large cash gifts to his children disguised as legitimate business transactions to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ wrongdoing in his real estate empire .
`` 'Beyond the impacts for law enforcement , ' '' Maloney has noted , the Illicit Cash Act , 'will directly affect us here at home by lowering housing costs in New York City , ' where shell companies parking money in high-end real estate have cut into housing supply and pushed up real estate costs for everyone else , '' Sheil wrote .
`` That includes many of the 1,300 Trump condominiums that were purchased with all cash by anonymous shell companies , according to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ York Times analysis found Trump was $ 420 million in debt , with many of those obligations due in the next few years , and the president also has secret bank accounts in China , Ireland and the UK — and Sheil said Maloney 's act poses a direct threat to Trump 's finances .
`` If Donald Trump is not afraid , he should be , '' Sheil wrote .
`` Take it to the bank .
You know , the one offshore . ''

President Donald Trump has threatened to veto the bipartisan National Defense Authorization Act, which Congress has passed and presidents have signed for 59 years.
The outgoing president objects to provision for changing the names of military bases honoring Confederate historical figures and preserving part of the 1996 Telecommunications Act protecting tech companies from liability for user-generated content — but there may actually be a more self-serving reason for his recalcitrance, reported The Daily Beast.
"None of that explains why he'd risk a humiliating veto override to shoot down a popular bipartisan bill," wrote Martin Sheil, a longtime investigator for the Internal Revenue Service. "One thing that would explain his bizarre position here is another add-on: one that could expose financial arrangements that Trump would prefer to keep hidden."
That add-on is the Illicit Cash Act, which would modernize federal money laundering laws by requiring shell companies to report their beneficial owners.
"Currently, the U.S. is at the bottom of the pack with respect to corporate transparency," said Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY), who has been pushing for the act since 2007. "In many states, more personal information is needed to obtain a library card than to establish a legal entity that can be used to facilitate tax evasion, money laundering, fraud, and corruption. The U.S has been identified in several studies as one of the easiest jurisdictions in which to open an anonymous company."
That legislation would have prevented the Trump family from setting up shell companies that allowed the president's father Fred Trump from making large cash gifts to his children disguised as legitimate business transactions to evade taxes, and could expose possible wrongdoing in his real estate empire.
"'Beyond the impacts for law enforcement,'" Maloney has noted, the Illicit Cash Act, 'will directly affect us here at home by lowering housing costs in New York City,' where shell companies parking money in high-end real estate have cut into housing supply and pushed up real estate costs for everyone else," Sheil wrote. "That includes many of the 1,300 Trump condominiums that were purchased with all cash by anonymous shell companies, according to a Buzzfeed investigation."
A New York Timesanalysis found Trump was $420 million in debt, with many of those obligations due in the next few years, and the president also has secret bank accounts in China, Ireland and the UK — and Sheil said Maloney's act poses a direct threat to Trump's finances.
"If Donald Trump is not afraid, he should be," Sheil wrote. "Take it to the bank. You know, the one offshore."


alternet--2020-12-10--Here's why there will be no presidential comeback for Trump in 2024: journalist

So far , President Donald Trump and his hardcore supporters have been unsuccessful in their attempts to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election , but they have a Plan B if President-elect Joe Biden is sworn into office on January 20 , 2021 : a Trump presidential campaign in 2024 .
If Trump 's `` four more years '' do n't start in 2021 , some supporters believe , they can start in 2025 .
But journalist John F. Harris , founding editor of Politico , seriously doubts that Trump has a shot at recapturing the presidency four @ @ @ @ @ @ @ published by Politico on December 10 , Harris acknowledges that although the 2020 election was a decisive victory for Biden , it was n't the total repudiation of Trumpism that his critics were hoping for .
`` Donald Trump lost the presidency , but his opponents so far have not achieved the victory they want most : a fatal puncturing of the Trump movement — a repudiation so complete that it severs his astonishing grip on supporters and leaves him with no choice but to slink offstage and into the blurry past , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ `` For now , Trump dominates conversations about both present and future . ''
Harris adds , `` His outlandish claims that he won the election except for comprehensive fraud have helped raise more than $ 200 million since Election Day .
Many of his partisans share his dream of recapturing the presidency in 2024 .
For those who despise him , to paraphrase a famous Democratic speech , it seems clear the work goes on , the cause endures , the fear still lives , and the nightmare shall never die .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ with more speed and force than looks possible today . ''
Harris goes on to offer some `` reasons to be deeply skeptical that Trump 's moment of dominating his party and public consciousness will continue long after January 20 . ''
Delving into history , Harris notes that a variety of other `` flamboyant , self-dramatizing '' political figures became less visible — from Sen. Joseph McCarthy to segregationist George Wallace to Texas billionaire Ross Perot .
`` Cults of personality in American politics are quite common , '' Harris explains , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and Trump has offered no reason to suppose he will be an exception . ''
Other reasons Harris is skeptical about Trump being able to make a political comeback in 2024 range from the president having `` largely abandoned any pretense that he thinks about anything other than his personal resentments '' to the fact that `` politics never stands still , but Trump largely does . ''
`` As he leaves the White House , '' Harris argues , `` Trump should be haunted by a stark reality — if he had @ @ @ @ @ @ @ n't be leaving the White House at all .
He 's got one set of political tools .
When things are going well , his instinct is to double down on those .
When things are going poorly , his instinct is to double down on those . ''
Harris notes that Trump has 88 million Twitter followers and the resources to `` start his own news network '' after he leaves the White House , but the journalist stresses that those resources wo n't automatically translate into a successful presidential campaign in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ one of Trump 's fatal flaws , from a political standpoint , is his lack of flexibility — which Harris believes will doom his chances of a comeback in 2024 .
`` Time moves on , '' Harris emphasizes .
`` Ambitious Republicans who wish to regain control of the party and become president themselves do not have to confront and defeat Trump , as his 2016 rivals tried and failed to do .
They merely have to transcend him . ''

So far, President Donald Trump and his hardcore supporters have been unsuccessful in their attempts to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election, but they have a Plan B if President-elect Joe Biden is sworn into office on January 20, 2021: a Trump presidential campaign in 2024. If Trump's "four more years" don't start in 2021, some supporters believe, they can start in 2025. But journalist John F. Harris, founding editor of Politico, seriously doubts that Trump has a shot at recapturing the presidency four years from now.
In an article published by Politico on December 10, Harris acknowledges that although the 2020 election was a decisive victory for Biden, it wasn't the total repudiation of Trumpism that his critics were hoping for.
"Donald Trump lost the presidency, but his opponents so far have not achieved the victory they want most: a fatal puncturing of the Trump movement — a repudiation so complete that it severs his astonishing grip on supporters and leaves him with no choice but to slink offstage and into the blurry past," the Politico founding editor writes. "For now, Trump dominates conversations about both present and future."
Harris adds, "His outlandish claims that he won the election except for comprehensive fraud have helped raise more than $200 million since Election Day. Many of his partisans share his dream of recapturing the presidency in 2024. For those who despise him, to paraphrase a famous Democratic speech, it seems clear the work goes on, the cause endures, the fear still lives, and the nightmare shall never die. Except it will die — most likely with more speed and force than looks possible today."
Harris goes on to offer some "reasons to be deeply skeptical that Trump's moment of dominating his party and public consciousness will continue long after January 20."
Delving into history, Harris notes that a variety of other "flamboyant, self-dramatizing" political figures became less visible — from Sen. Joseph McCarthy to segregationist George Wallace to Texas billionaire Ross Perot.
"Cults of personality in American politics are quite common," Harris explains, "but they never live long, and Trump has offered no reason to suppose he will be an exception."
Other reasons Harris is skeptical about Trump being able to make a political comeback in 2024 range from the president having "largely abandoned any pretense that he thinks about anything other than his personal resentments" to the fact that "politics never stands still, but Trump largely does."
"As he leaves the White House," Harris argues, "Trump should be haunted by a stark reality — if he had any capacity for self-calibration, he wouldn't be leaving the White House at all. He's got one set of political tools. When things are going well, his instinct is to double down on those. When things are going poorly, his instinct is to double down on those."
Harris notes that Trump has 88 million Twitter followers and the resources to "start his own news network" after he leaves the White House, but the journalist stresses that those resources won't automatically translate into a successful presidential campaign in 2024. And according to Harris, one of Trump's fatal flaws, from a political standpoint, is his lack of flexibility — which Harris believes will doom his chances of a comeback in 2024.
"Time moves on," Harris emphasizes. "Ambitious Republicans who wish to regain control of the party and become president themselves do not have to confront and defeat Trump, as his 2016 rivals tried and failed to do. They merely have to transcend him."


alternet--2020-12-10--Arizona Supreme Court delivers major blow to GOP chair Kelli Ward

The Arizona Supreme Court voted unanimously to strike down a baseless election fraud lawsuit filed by Arizona Republican Party Chair Kelli Ward and other Trump allies .
`` The Court concludes , unanimously , that the trial judge did not abuse his discretion in denying the request to continue the hearing and permit additional inspection of the ballots , '' the ruling read .
`` The November 9 , 2020 hand count audit revealed no discrepancies in the tabulation of votes and the statistically negligible error presented in this case falls far short of warranting relief under A.R.S .
16-672 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the challenge fails to present any evidence of 'misconduct , ' 'Illegal votes ' or that the Biden Electors 'did not in fact receive the highest number of votes for office , ' let alone establish any evidence of fraud or a sufficient error rate that would undermine the certainty of the election results … '' The court also unanimously ruled that there were `` no discrepancies in vote tabulations , '' `` negligible error , '' and `` no evidence of fraud or a sufficient error rate that would undermine the certainty @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Trump campaign 's claims , the court confirmed there is `` certainty in the result , '' according to the publication .
After the Supreme Court handed down its ruling , Ward released a statement as she insisted the fight to overturn the election `` will continue . ''
`` While today 's decision is not what those who value and recognize the importance of election transparency and integrity were seeking , rest assured , the fight to restore that corroded confidence will continue . ''

The Arizona Supreme Court voted unanimously to strike down a baseless election fraud lawsuit filed by Arizona Republican Party Chair Kelli Ward and other Trump allies.
"The Court concludes, unanimously, that the trial judge did not abuse his discretion in denying the request to continue the hearing and permit additional inspection of the ballots," the ruling read. "The November 9, 2020 hand count audit revealed no discrepancies in the tabulation of votes and the statistically negligible error presented in this case falls far short of warranting relief under A.R.S. 16-672."
It continued, "Because the challenge fails to present any evidence of 'misconduct,' 'Illegal votes' or that the Biden Electors 'did not in fact receive the highest number of votes for office,' let alone establish any evidence of fraud or a sufficient error rate that would undermine the certainty of the election results …"
The court also unanimously ruled that there were "no discrepancies in vote tabulations," "negligible error," and "no evidence of fraud or a sufficient error rate that would undermine the certainty of the election result." Despite the Trump campaign's claims, the court confirmed there is "certainty in the result," according to the publication.
After the Supreme Court handed down its ruling, Ward released a statement as she insisted the fight to overturn the election "will continue." "While today's decision is not what those who value and recognize the importance of election transparency and integrity were seeking, rest assured, the fight to restore that corroded confidence will continue."


alternet--2020-12-10--Police investigating bomb threat at Democratic headquarters in Spokane

As law enforcement officials investigate the recent bomb threat at the Democratic headquarters in Spokane County , WA.
, Democrats in the state are urging elected officials to denounce such actions to prevent the possibility of another .
Following the scare , Washington State Democrats Chairwoman Tina Podlodowski on Wednesday , Dec. 9 , released a statement about the incident .
Podlodowski and Democrats in Spokane County called on officials and community leaders to condemn these potential acts of violence , reports KREM .
`` We are so relieved that no one was harmed in this reprehensible act of violence @ @ @ @ @ @ @ safety of our volunteers and the broader community of Spokane , '' Podlodowski said .
`` We urge every elected official and community leader to join us in condemning this apparently politically motivated act of violence .
No one should have to fear for their life simply because they participate in our political process . ''
Spokane Democrats call Teamsters building bomb threat 'political and more headlines at 4 p.m. on Dec According to Spokesman.com , Nicole Bishop , who serves as chair over the city 's Democrats , offered details about the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ A man walked into the building and handed a letter to a volunteer .
According to the Spokane Police Department : He asked the volunteer whether she knew what it meant and she said she did n't , Bishop said .
The man then said , `` it 's a manifesto and I have a bomb , '' Bishop said .
The volunteer could see wires coming from his bag , Bishop said .
While one volunteer called 911 , the man went into another 's office and said he would `` blow @ @ @ @ @ @ @ fled from the building , he was detained by police .
However , smoke was rolling from one of the rooms in the building .
Although it was confirmed that the man did not have an actual bomb , it appears that he did start a fire .
Despite the nature of the threat and Democrats urging all elected officials to denounce such actions , Spokane Mayor Nadine Woodward ( R ) failed to even address the situation .
In fact , when the Republican mayor 's office was asked if it had @ @ @ @ @ @ @ her spokesman simply said , `` No .
It 's a law enforcement matter . ''

As law enforcement officials investigate the recent bomb threat at the Democratic headquarters in Spokane County, WA., Democrats in the state are urging elected officials to denounce such actions to prevent the possibility of another.
Following the scare, Washington State Democrats Chairwoman Tina Podlodowski on Wednesday, Dec. 9, released a statement about the incident. Podlodowski and Democrats in Spokane County called on officials and community leaders to condemn these potential acts of violence, reports KREM.
"We are so relieved that no one was harmed in this reprehensible act of violence. Our primary concern is for the safety of our volunteers and the broader community of Spokane," Podlodowski said. "We urge every elected official and community leader to join us in condemning this apparently politically motivated act of violence. No one should have to fear for their life simply because they participate in our political process."
Spokane Democrats call Teamsters building bomb threat 'political and more headlines at 4 p.m. on Dec www.youtube.com
According to Spokesman.com, Nicole Bishop, who serves as chair over the city's Democrats, offered details about the events leading up to the threat. A man walked into the building and handed a letter to a volunteer.
According to the Spokane Police Department:
He asked the volunteer whether she knew what it meant and she said she didn't, Bishop said. The man then said, "it's a manifesto and I have a bomb," Bishop said.
The volunteer could see wires coming from his bag, Bishop said. While one volunteer called 911, the man went into another's office and said he would "blow the place up.
When the man fled from the building, he was detained by police. However, smoke was rolling from one of the rooms in the building. Although it was confirmed that the man did not have an actual bomb, it appears that he did start a fire.
Despite the nature of the threat and Democrats urging all elected officials to denounce such actions, Spokane Mayor Nadine Woodward (R) failed to even address the situation. In fact, when the Republican mayor's office was asked if it had a statement to address the situation, her spokesman simply said, "No. It's a law enforcement matter."


alternet--2020-12-11--An ex-Israeli defense minister is making truly baffling claims about aliens

Astronomers , astrophysicists , and nonprofits like the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence have been scouring the skies for signs of intelligent life for decades , and have thus far come up blank .
Every year , thousands of stories of supposed alien abduction or interstellar communication emerge from citizens around the world , though just about all of them are dismissed by the scientific community outright for lack of evidence .
Yet while most stories of alien abduction emerge from those who are either mentally ill or desirous of attention in some regard , occasionally someone with political clout makes @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of an Israeli space agency did last week when he announced that human beings have made direct contact with extraterrestrials .
Haim Eshed , who used to lead Israel 's Defense Ministry 's space directorate , told the Israeli newspaper Yediot Aharonot that extraterrestrials from a `` galactic federation '' have been in contact with human beings but do not want the public to know as they feel our species is not ready yet , .
He also claimed that President Donald Trump had planned on revealing the extraterrestrials ' existence but was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to prevent `` mass hysteria '' ; that there is an `` underground base in the depths of Mars '' where American astronauts and extraterrestrials interact ; that the U.S. government signed a contract with aliens allowing them to do experiments here ; and that the extraterrestrials are seeking to learn about `` the fabric of the universe . ''
`` They have been waiting until today for humanity to develop and reach a stage where we will understand , in general , what space and spaceships are , '' Eshed said of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ physicists are so accustomed to outrageous claims of extraterrestrial sightings that the phrase `` it 's never aliens '' has become a motto of sorts , repeated in Twitter memes and college course titles .
`` Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence , '' popular astronomer and science educator Carl Sagan famously .
Sagan was fond of pointing out that skepticism formed the crux of the scientific method , and scientists still apply his lesson to claims of alien sightings .
Recent observed by the US Defense Department , for instance , went viral @ @ @ @ @ @ @ alien craft ; yet human engineers are of producing such fast-moving drone craft right here on Earth .
Occam 's Razor suggests a human origin is a far more likely explanation .
Hence , an attention-hungry loner or a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic person reporting alien sightings is common enough as to not be newsworthy .
That is because the public does not expect this type of person to be credible , and such people generally do n't provide evidence that would make them so .
But what about when someone with political power @ @ @ @ @ @ @ bogus claims ?
Someone like Eshed , or astronaut , or former Canadian defense minister ?
`` Without further information , it is impossible to know what psychological factors might underlie these claims from Haim Eshed , '' Christopher C. French , a British psychologist who specializes in the psychology behind people claiming to believe in or have experienced the paranormal , wrote to Salon .
Indeed , there are psychological disorders that commonly lead to their sufferers believing that they are under the influence of aliens .
The connection between mental illness @ @ @ @ @ @ @ enough that there are entire psychology studies devoted to the subject .
A 1983 published in The Canadian Journal of Psychiatry , titled `` Psychoses and unidentified objects , '' studied six subjects who claimed to have communicated with aliens who had given them missions to protect humanity .
The study 's two co-authors concluded that `` five of them suffered from a paranoid delusional state often akin to paraphrenia , '' a mental condition characterized by paranoid delusions and hallucinations .
French speculated as to the possible psychological explanations for Eshed 's @ @ @ @ @ @ @ prominent alien-seers like Hellyer and Mitchell .
French noted that he could be telling the truth , although `` given the outlandish nature of his claims and the lack of any direct evidence to support them '' French agreed it was `` extremely unlikely . ''
A more likely possibility is that Eshed genuinely believes what he is saying despite it being false , in which case French says he would want to know the reasons .
`` Has he seen any actual evidence or is he basing his claims on reports from @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the evidence convincing ?
If the latter , are these others credible ?
What are they basing their claims upon ?
Is it possible that Eshed is delusional ?
This is certainly a possibility . ''
Finally , it is possible that Eshed and his ilk are deliberately lying ; certainly , he has a financial incentive to do so , as he is promoting a book about UFOs .
This seems most likely .
`` He has already garnered much attention by his claims , '' French mused .
`` He will @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the UFO community and be invited to address UFO conferences , not to mention appearances on talk shows , and so on .
Maybe it 's all a practical joke and he is laughing all the way to the bank ? ''
`` Mr. Eshed 's background as a space security official serves as a reminder that outlandish views are not limited to uneducated people , '' Glenn C. Altschuler , a historian at Cornell University who regularly contributes to Psychology Today ( where he has ) , told Salon by email @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is , in essence , inviting journalists to ask President Trump what he knows about the alien presence on earth .
It leaves one wondering what Mr. Trump , no stranger to outlandish theories , might say about Eshed 's claims . ''
Altschuler also argued that belief in UFOs can be viewed in the broader context of people interpreting reality in different ways based on influences including those of `` parents , peers , and charismatic figures . ''
He added , `` We know as well that when presented with evidence @ @ @ @ @ @ @ conspiracy theories they often hug them ever more tightly , exhibiting what psychologists call cognitive dissonance .
Motivations , of course , vary from individual to individual — and it is important to understand that many people fervently believe that what they are saying is true .
They may interpret attention as validation .
If they are telling a story for material gain , of course , all bets are off . ''
French made a similar point , noting that Eshed 's unsubstantiated claims are part of a larger phenomenon that can @ @ @ @ @ @ @ large sections of the public .
`` The problem here is that these claims will fuel conspiracy beliefs of all kinds , '' French wrote to Salon .
`` After all , if the US government are lying about this , what else are they lying about ?
Maybe the COVID vaccination programme really is just a cover to inject us all with microchips to control our minds ?
This way lies collective madness — and thousands more unnecessary deaths . ''
He added , `` If Eshed has any solid proof to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the world what it is .
Until he does so , we should feel no more obliged to believe him than we would any other conspiracy theorist . ''
In general , many well-meaning people believe fervently in UFOs , though few go so far as to claim to have been abducted or met a Galactic Council .
Susan Krauss Whitbourne , a professor of Psychological and Brain Sciences at the University of Massachusetts Amherst , told that people may also be more inclined to believe in UFOs if they are more open @ @ @ @ @ @ @ You get the sense that there 's kind of a dimension of suggestibility , so if you 're high on that spectrum ... [ you may be more ] willing to entertain new ideas and fantasies .
You start to get into the domain where people believe things that seem highly improbable , '' Krauss Whitbourne explained .

Astronomers, astrophysicists, and nonprofits like the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence have been scouring the skies for signs of intelligent life for decades, and have thus far come up blank. Every year, thousands of stories of supposed alien abduction or interstellar communication emerge from citizens around the world, though just about all of them are dismissed by the scientific community outright for lack of evidence. Yet while most stories of alien abduction emerge from those who are either mentally ill or desirous of attention in some regard, occasionally someone with political clout makes such claims — as the former head of an Israeli space agency did last week when he announced that human beings have made direct contact with extraterrestrials.
Haim Eshed, who used to lead Israel's Defense Ministry's space directorate, told the Israeli newspaper Yediot Aharonot that extraterrestrials from a "galactic federation" have been in contact with human beings but do not want the public to know as they feel our species is not ready yet, according to NBC News . He also claimed that President Donald Trump had planned on revealing the extraterrestrials' existence but was asked to not do so in order to prevent "mass hysteria"; that there is an "underground base in the depths of Mars" where American astronauts and extraterrestrials interact; that the U.S. government signed a contract with aliens allowing them to do experiments here; and that the extraterrestrials are seeking to learn about "the fabric of the universe."
"They have been waiting until today for humanity to develop and reach a stage where we will understand, in general, what space and spaceships are," Eshed said of the supposed galactic federation.
Astronomers and physicists are so accustomed to outrageous claims of extraterrestrial sightings that the phrase "it's never aliens" has become a motto of sorts, repeated in Twitter memes and college course titles. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence," popular astronomer and science educator Carl Sagan famously quipped . Sagan was fond of pointing out that skepticism formed the crux of the scientific method, and scientists still apply his lesson to claims of alien sightings. Recent fast-moving objects observed by the US Defense Department, for instance, went viral over public speculation that they might be alien craft; yet human engineers are perfectly capable of producing such fast-moving drone craft right here on Earth. Occam's Razor suggests a human origin is a far more likely explanation.
Hence, an attention-hungry loner or a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic person reporting alien sightings is common enough as to not be newsworthy. That is because the public does not expect this type of person to be credible, and such people generally don't provide evidence that would make them so.
But what about when someone with political power, influence and credibility makes such obviously bogus claims? Someone like Eshed, or astronaut Edgar Mitchell , or former Canadian defense minister Paul Hellyer ?
"Without further information, it is impossible to know what psychological factors might underlie these claims from Haim Eshed," Christopher C. French, a British psychologist who specializes in the psychology behind people claiming to believe in or have experienced the paranormal, wrote to Salon.
Indeed, there are psychological disorders that commonly lead to their sufferers believing that they are under the influence of aliens. The connection between mental illness and claims of alien abduction is common enough that there are entire psychology studies devoted to the subject. A 1983 paper published in The Canadian Journal of Psychiatry, titled "Psychoses and unidentified objects," studied six subjects who claimed to have communicated with aliens who had given them missions to protect humanity. The study's two co-authors concluded that "five of them suffered from a paranoid delusional state often akin to paraphrenia," a mental condition characterized by paranoid delusions and hallucinations.
French speculated as to the possible psychological explanations for Eshed's claims, explanations that apply to other prominent alien-seers like Hellyer and Mitchell. French noted that he could be telling the truth, although "given the outlandish nature of his claims and the lack of any direct evidence to support them" French agreed it was "extremely unlikely."
A more likely possibility is that Eshed genuinely believes what he is saying despite it being false, in which case French says he would want to know the reasons. "Has he seen any actual evidence or is he basing his claims on reports from others? If the former, is the evidence convincing? If the latter, are these others credible? What are they basing their claims upon? Is it possible that Eshed is delusional? This is certainly a possibility."
Finally, it is possible that Eshed and his ilk are deliberately lying; certainly, he has a financial incentive to do so, as he is promoting a book about UFOs. This seems most likely. "He has already garnered much attention by his claims," French mused. "He will no doubt become the latest 'darling' of the UFO community and be invited to address UFO conferences, not to mention appearances on talk shows, and so on. Maybe it's all a practical joke and he is laughing all the way to the bank?"
"Mr. Eshed's background as a space security official serves as a reminder that outlandish views are not limited to uneducated people," Glenn C. Altschuler, a historian at Cornell University who regularly contributes to Psychology Today (where he has written about UFOs ), told Salon by email. Altschuler also noted that "Eshed is, in essence, inviting journalists to ask President Trump what he knows about the alien presence on earth. It leaves one wondering what Mr. Trump, no stranger to outlandish theories, might say about Eshed's claims."
Altschuler also argued that belief in UFOs can be viewed in the broader context of people interpreting reality in different ways based on influences including those of "parents, peers, and charismatic figures."
He added, "We know as well that when presented with evidence that seems to debunk their beliefs or conspiracy theories they often hug them ever more tightly, exhibiting what psychologists call cognitive dissonance. Motivations, of course, vary from individual to individual — and it is important to understand that many people fervently believe that what they are saying is true. They may interpret attention as validation. If they are telling a story for material gain, of course, all bets are off."
French made a similar point, noting that Eshed's unsubstantiated claims are part of a larger phenomenon that can lead to misinformation being taken seriously by large sections of the public.
"The problem here is that these claims will fuel conspiracy beliefs of all kinds," French wrote to Salon. "After all, if the US government are lying about this, what else are they lying about? Maybe the COVID vaccination programme really is just a cover to inject us all with microchips to control our minds? This way lies collective madness — and thousands more unnecessary deaths."
He added, "If Eshed has any solid proof to support his claims, he should tell the world what it is. Until he does so, we should feel no more obliged to believe him than we would any other conspiracy theorist."
In general, many well-meaning people believe fervently in UFOs, though few go so far as to claim to have been abducted or met a Galactic Council. Susan Krauss Whitbourne, a professor of Psychological and Brain Sciences at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, told IBTimes UK in 2015 that people may also be more inclined to believe in UFOs if they are more open to new ideas in general.
"You get the sense that there's kind of a dimension of suggestibility, so if you're high on that spectrum ... [you may be more] willing to entertain new ideas and fantasies. You start to get into the domain where people believe things that seem highly improbable," Krauss Whitbourne explained.


alternet--2020-12-11--Critics brace for Trump's head to explode after Biden-Harris named Time Magazine's 'Person of the Ye

Critics brace for Trump's head to explode after Biden-Harris named Time Magazine's 'Person of the Year'

Twitter users are anticipating President Donald Trump 's reaction to losing once again to incoming President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris .
On Thursday when TIME magazine announced its annual `` Person of the Year , '' social media users were shocked , and pleased , to see more than one person on the newly unveiled cover of its December issue .
But they also know there is one person who wo n't be happy : Trump .
Now , Twitter users are trolling the lame-duck president with posts predicting how they think Trump will respond to the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Actor Mark Hamil predicted that Trump would try to contest the magazine cover in a baseless argument similar to the one he has been pushing about voter fraud .
`` Stand by for lawsuit alleging the magazine 's selection process was fraudulent and rigged , '' he tweeted .
With a cartoon image of Trump , television producer Corey Reynolds offered a comical impersonation and prediction of Trump 's reaction tweeting , `` I 'm mad .
I 'm soooooooooo bigly f**ing mad right now .
Knowing that people are laughing at @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 'd**n you just ca n't stop losing , you orange-faced fascist ' makes is so much worse ...
Completely unrelated but , my kids are awful too .
We 're all just ... terrible . ''
Some wondered if the president had already gone to bed for the night as they predicted the Twitter firestorm would likely come in the morning .
`` Has Trump started ranting about Time magazine yet ?
If not , either he 's not watching tv - the only place he gets his news - or he 's @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , adding , `` Or calling his corrupt Proto fascists in the GOP with more thoughts on their war on democracy . ''
One Twitter user even reflected on Trump photoshopping himself on a TIME magazine cover as he noted how much of a blow the loss might be for the embattled president .
Trump has yet to comment on TIME magazine 's selection but many Twitter users are expecting the tweetstorm to come sometime today .

Twitter users are anticipating President Donald Trump's reaction to losing once again to incoming President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris.
On Thursday when TIME magazine announced its annual "Person of the Year," social media users were shocked, and pleased, to see more than one person on the newly unveiled cover of its December issue. But they also know there is one person who won't be happy: Trump.
Now, Twitter users are trolling the lame-duck president with posts predicting how they think Trump will respond to the magazine's prestigious selection, reports HuffPost.
Trump's head just imploded. Just waiting for the tweet storm. pic.twitter.com/ZqABFRJzXZ
— M ✌🏻✌🏻WEAR A MASK (@sassybibrarian) December 11, 2020
Actor Mark Hamil predicted that Trump would try to contest the magazine cover in a baseless argument similar to the one he has been pushing about voter fraud.
"Stand by for lawsuit alleging the magazine's selection process was fraudulent and rigged," he tweeted.
With a cartoon image of Trump, television producer Corey Reynolds offered a comical impersonation and prediction of Trump's reaction tweeting, "I'm mad. I'm soooooooooo bigly f**ing mad right now. Knowing that people are laughing at me (again) and saying, 'd**n you just can't stop losing, you orange-faced fascist' makes is so much worse... Completely unrelated but, my kids are awful too. We're all just... terrible."
Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are TIME's 2020 Person of the Year #TIMEPOYhttps://t.co/o97QNlSBrlpic.twitter.com/KuoBoebBN4
— TIME (@TIME) December 11, 2020
Some wondered if the president had already gone to bed for the night as they predicted the Twitter firestorm would likely come in the morning. "Has Trump started ranting about Time magazine yet? If not, either he's not watching tv - the only place he gets his news - or he's asleep," one Twitter user said, adding, "Or calling his corrupt Proto fascists in the GOP with more thoughts on their war on democracy."
One Twitter user even reflected on Trump photoshopping himself on a TIME magazine cover as he noted how much of a blow the loss might be for the embattled president.
Trump has yet to comment on TIME magazine's selection but many Twitter users are expecting the tweetstorm to come sometime today.


alternet--2020-12-11--'40 Years a Prisoner' confronts the police we're supposed to trust 'telling bold-faced lies'

Eight-year-old me could n't imagine not seeing my dad 's smiling face on Christmas morning , or drawing my mom a cartoon-filled card covered in thank yous for Mother 's Day , or the thousands of other memories small kids get to share with their parents .
These types of memories make up the foundation of our traditions and are the things that we pass down to our kids .
Mike Africa Jr. , who was born in prison , was robbed of the chance of creating those in-person memories with his parents .
The Philadelphia police department forced him @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Africa Jr. 's journey is brilliantly related in the new HBO documentary film , `` 40 Years a Prisoner , '' directed by Tommy Oliver and available now on HBO Max .
Featuring an all-star ensemble of producers including The Roots , Common and John Legend , `` 40 Years A Prisoner '' is a compelling film about the horrors of America 's criminal justice system .
The story begins in 1978 when Philadelphia police raided MOVE , a back to nature organization based on love , among other peaceful principles .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ , were arrested during that raid on trumped up charges and convicted before he was born .
In the film , Oliver documents Africa Jr. 's life pursuit of freeing his parents , along with other MOVE members , and a decades-long battle with the Philadelphia police department .
I recently got a chance to talk with Africa Jr. and Oliver about the film on an episode of `` Salon Talks . ''
Watch or read our conversation below to hear more about the never-before-seen archival materials that Oliver dug up about MOVE @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Jr. 's parents now , and how the original MOVE members are responding to seeing their 40-year story on-screen .
Mike Africa Jr. on getting his parents out of prison , 40 years after Philly 's MOVE raid The following conversation has been lightly edited for clarity and length .
Tommy , in the film you document Mike 's parents ' long journey toward freedom with Mike at the center of it .
A lot of people have heard of MOVE , but do n't really know about some of the core principles @ @ @ @ @ @ @ readers and our viewers a brief history ?
Mike Africa Jr. : The MOVE organization 's belief is life , and our mission is to encourage people to protect life .
There are companies that barter life for money , enslave animals like the zoo , and we protested against it .
And that 's really what started it because the industries that make the money off of enslaving life , they make money for themselves and they do n't want anybody interrupting those establishments .
They came at MOVE the way they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ us from speaking the truth about them .
It 's crazy .
And Tommy , you are a Philly native and a lot of this stuff was happening when you were growing up .
When MOVE was in the news was it something people your age was connecting to ?
Tommy Oliver : No , it was n't .
There were people who talked about MOVE , but they never really talked about it in a way that made a whole lot of sense or with a lot of clarity .
And so @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I did n't really know what that meant or who that meant .
And there was some bomb or something that happened and there was some incident and that was about it .
I really did n't understand who they were or what happened until I got older and started doing my own research .
Oliver : I am a research junkie , so I just started going through as much as I could .
I read maybe seven books , probably 60-plus articles .
And then I went to the Temple Urban @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of stuff there , but I realized there were still things that were missing from what was there .
I had a buddy who was working for the mayor , Maxwell Brown , introduce me to MOVE .
He then introduced me to Ramona Africa .
Ramona and I were set to meet and she brought along Mike , and I was like , `` Who 's this dude ? ''
I wanted to meet Mona .
But Mike and I , we hit it off very well in the beginning .
There @ @ @ @ @ @ @ stuck out to me at that point , which was almost four years ago at a cafe in West Philly .
I remember it vividly .
There was the idea that he was born in prison , which I had no idea about .
That was just a strange thing .
The fact that his parents and the rest of the MOVE nine , well , seven at that point – because two of them had passed away – were still in prison .
And on top of that , he was fighting @ @ @ @ @ @ @ all very big things .
He was somebody who had went through a ton of stuff yet , despite all of it , there was not a shred of bitterness about him .
He had such a positivity that was clear even in that first meeting .
I knew there was something to it .
The more that we talked and the more I understood the things that they were fighting against some 40 years ago — police brutality , wrongful incarceration , systemic racism , abuse of power — the same stuff @ @ @ @ @ @ @ just became something that I had to be a part of .
In general , MOVE had been pretty resistant to any type of media or journalist or anyone because they had been mistreated and misrepresented by the media for so long .
But for one reason or another , he allowed me in in a very real open and honest way .
It 's funny that you touched on bitterness because there are so many reasons for you to be frustrated , Mike .
Instead , you give urgency and knowledge and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are you able to tap into that and still be so driven around this case ?
Africa , Jr. : A deep sense of clarity , right ?
I 've had several meetings with the man that dropped the bomb on our house .
He was the mayor of Philadelphia at the time .
It was a really scary and hard thing to do .
Wilson Goode was the boogeyman for me .
When my cousins and my sister would come to my house and we would be talking about things , we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ One of the ways that we 'd try to scare each other is by saying , `` Wilson Goode 's going to get you . ''
If we do n't recognize the mistakes that we made and move forward and grow from it , then we 're going to be stuck in the same vicious cycle that we 're in right now .
It 's really disheartening to see the police still say things like we `` should have been killed . ''
Eleven of my family members were killed by the police @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the death of those police officers .
I 'm not even calling for their imprisonment .
All I want is for us to be able to move forward and progress because that 's the only way that we can actually make any kind of real change that could lead to any kind of peace .
What was the experience like to sitting down with the man responsible for the bombing ?
Africa Jr. : It was the hardest thing I ever had to do in my life .
I left the meeting vomiting @ @ @ @ @ @ @ went through my body .
Members of my family that had spent 40 years in prison , their kids were in the house that the bomb was dropped on .
I 'm getting nervous just thinking about it right now .
There 's this extreme feeling of dishonoring them .
There was this horrible feeling of nervousness and fear , but I did it because those people were still in prison and this man was saying that he was willing to help them get out .
I would do anything for my family @ @ @ @ @ @ @ through with meeting the mayor and speaking to him over a dozen times , that is something that I would do a hundred times if it meant getting my people out of prison so they do n't die in prison .
With all of the meetings that we 've had , the results were positive .
All of the MOVE non-members came home .
Even though two of the members died in prison before that , one of the big benefits to me was that Delbert Africa , who people remember for being @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , he was kicked so hard he was lifted up off the ground by the police and he was beaten .
He was the Rodney King before Rodney King .
He got out of prison and he died just six months later .
But I really feel confident that the work that I did and the meetings that I had that were so hard to do was a big part of him coming home .
Even though he only saw freedom for six months , at least he saw freedom .
We 're @ @ @ @ @ @ @ right now where people are finally starting to acknowledge that there 's a whole lot of racist cops with the power to offset people 's lives for generations .
What we 're not talking about enough is the system that promotes and honors and nurtures and cherishes that racism .
Oliver : People talk about the idea of the system and the police department being problematic and corrupt and a justice system that can convict nine people for the murder of one officer .
They forget that these are instances of the system @ @ @ @ @ @ @ designed to do .
Those are n't accidents .
Those are n't outliers .
Those are within the bounds of how our system is and was designed to function .
You have to remember where police departments came from .
They grew out of slave catching .
None of these things are mistakes or accidents .
It requires a real understanding of that in order to fix the problem and not just a bunch of surface-level things to make us feel good or sleep better at night .
That 's what we 've @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 's been a lot of `` Hey , let me do this thing because things are bubbling up and we have to make a statement . ''
One of the things that really bothers me is the idea that people have been talking about how alarmingly relevant this film is , how topical this film is .
That breaks my f**king heart .
We 're talking about stuff that happened 40 years ago .
40 years ago and , case in point , the film screened at the Philadelphia Film Festival and it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
That same Monday , that very same day , was the day that Walter Wallace Jr. was killed in Philly across the street .
Literally the same street as somebody in the film , a MOVE member , she lives on that block around the corner from what happened to MOVE .
We have a lot of work to do .
I love Philly .
I really do .
And in many ways , this film is a love letter to Philly , but Philly needs to do better .
Not that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ there was a video that I saw of Philadelphia police who were arresting a Black man and he yelled out , `` I ca n't breathe . ''
And the police officers screamed back , `` That sh*t do n't work here . ''
And kept on with their knee on his neck .
I understand why you would get frustrated by people talking about why the film is timely , but this film has been timely since our existence in this country .
People ask me all the time , `` What @ @ @ @ @ @ @ like , `` The names of the victims . ''
That 's the only thing that changes .
Mike , I want you to speak to this .
We always hear about a few bad apples within departments and that most officers are here to protect us and make sure we 're safe .
But that 's just not the case .
It 's not a few bad apples .
I personally feel like it 's a system that constantly grows all bad apples .
Every time something like Walter Wallace happens , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Taylor happens , like George Floyd happens , I come back to this point .
Africa Jr. : The thing about the police department is that their emblem is a shield .
What is a shield for ?
A shield is not something that a person who is offering a service carries .
It 's something that is in defense of something .
It 's like they 're defending themselves against the public because they 're protecting something that the public should destroy .
The police do n't exist to protect the people @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to protect industry from the people because the system that exists is destroying life .
It 's destroying us .
It puts money between us and the things we need .
There 's a system that exists that if you do n't have money , you ca n't eat .
If you do n't have credentials from the system , you can not get money .
Why do we live in this society , in a system that would rather have people have billions of dollars and some people have no dollars ?
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ work harder to get those things .
Those things were stolen and protected by the police so that those people maintain it .
But when the people rebel , they call us terrorists and violent .
They call a person that breaks a glass window a rioter and a looter , but the man that kneels on George Floyd 's neck is at home and being held like he 's some kind of hero .
In Philadelphia , one of my friends , Ant Smith , was arrested because they said he was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a Molotov cocktail at a police car and burned it up .
The person that burned up the police car , allegedly , is facing 10 to 80 years in prison .
She 's been in jail since this whole year started .
And he , according to them , aided and abetted her , he 's facing 10 to 30 years in jail .
But the people that actually did the murders throughout the country , they 're all home .
Kyle Rittenhouse is home .
This is a system that is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ day are killed by the police .
When people start talking about defunding the police and the police start coming back like they 're so appalled by the fact that people are saying these things , they should understand that people are not saying these things because they just do n't like police .
They 're saying these things because they are negatively affected by the actions of the police .
People would not be saying those things if the police were doing the service that they claim to do .
Calling for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ much more so about building community unity and providing the necessary resources so that the violent crime and the things that the police claim they 're there for do n't even exist .
If f they 're honest , they know that they would not want to be treated the way that they treat Black people .
Oliver : If you think about the film and you think about what happened to Delbert Africa , there are a couple of points to really dig into .
One , what happened to Delbert was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on film .
There were witnesses .
There were photographs .
It was clear as day .
It took a year to charge those officers who beat him and those officers all got off .
Not only did they get off , it was a jury trial and the judge decided to unilaterally take the case away from them and issue a direct verdict of not guilty .
Then those three officers went on air and said that they would do the exact same thing again .
I do n't know how to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ hard thing because these are people that we are inclined to trust , people who are supposed to protect and serve .
We want to believe them .
We want to trust them .
In addition to that , you think about what happened with the police commissioner .
The commissioner , right after all of that happened , he went on air , and this is where most people got their information about MOVE .
He goes up there and he says that he had a knife in one hand and a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 's one of the reasons why I showed you in the film when he said that versus what actually happened .
All you have to go off of is what the police commissioner said , who 's up there with the mayor and the DA and these people who we are , again , inclined to trust .
These are elected officials .
These are community officials .
These are people who are these giants and they are sitting there telling bold-faced lies .
In a place like Philly this happened year in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
When you have a system that does those sorts of things , it makes it really hard to trust them .
It makes it really hard to think that when I call these people , things will get better .
Watching the archival footage in the film and the reporting you captured , it made me feel like I was living through these experiences or going through these experiences with the Africa family .
What type of emotions came out of both of you guys when you actually saw the finished product @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a lot of emotions .
On the one hand , I was so happy that Tommy put it together the way he did because I trusted him but there was still a level of reservation because we had been done so wrong in the media in the past .
No matter how kind or polite people seemed , there was always some kind of negative spin on it that just made it feel like you can never trust anybody in any type of media .
There was a part of me that was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and I did n't want to take a film to my family that I felt they would n't approve of .
So that was a big part of it .
There was another part that was just so emotional for me — seeing my family the way they were in 1978 and the way they are now .
They were young .
There 's a scene where he has the kids in the yard and those kids were in the house , May 13th .
They were among the kids that were killed @ @ @ @ @ @ @ them , it was really touching and emotional .
It felt like a piece of my life that was taken from me had been given back to me .
When I watched it again with my parents and other MOVE members , I did n't even really spend a lot of time watching the film , I spent more time watching them relive those days .
I knew that they were going to feel what I felt when I saw it .
It 's a breath of fresh air .
How have your @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
Africa , Jr. : There 's a roller coaster of emotions with them .
Keep in mind , 40 years had passed .
We went through cassette tapes , CDs , mini disks .
They had never seen a VCR tape .
Home Depot did n't exist when they went to prison .
We did n't have cell phones .
There 's so many things that they 're learning at such a fast pace because 40 years ago , when they wanted something , they had to put it together , assemble @ @ @ @ @ @ @ want anything , it 's almost like it 's instant .
When we first came home , my mom and I were in the restaurant and she was looking for the knobs on the sink to turn the water on and the water spit out the faucet and she was amazed .
It felt like the Jetsons or something to her .
When I gave her a phone and Siri said , `` Hello , Debbie , what do you need ? ''
She threw her phone on the floor .
You might @ @ @ @ @ @ @ life is complete and this is all they wanted and now they 're just happy and they 're probably going to be happy forever .
But there 's also a deep sense of depression that comes with being released from prison .
When they first went to prison my parents had all of their brothers and sisters , both their parents and a lot of friends .
And even though they know that their parents passed away while they were in prison and that many of their brothers and sisters are gone .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ , they were with those people .
When they come home , they still expect to see them and when that does n't happen , the gravity of how much time has passed and how much they 've lost since they 've been away , begins to set in .
There 's a level of deep depression that comes .
Fortunately , they came home to my house , and we were able to work through all of those things and get them to smooth sailing .
Right now they 're really , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ right now .
Oliver : The first time I 'd been on a plane was in September , which was seven months after not being on a plane , and it was to go to Philly because I did n't want MOVE to be blindsided .
The film was about to premiere in Toronto and I wanted to make sure that they saw the film before it was released to the world .
It was a 450-seat theater in downtown Philly , and there were 15 of us in there , 15 MOVE @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a particularly emotional person at all but I remember when it started watching Mike , in particular , talk about his journey it got to me because he 's talking about why he was fighting and continuing to fight to get them out and having been there for what followed that for years of the struggle , the heartache , the disappointment .
I knew how much he wanted his family home and I knew that he was just a kid who wanted his parents home and the rest of his family home @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 's all it was .
That really got to me .
The film is going to be a call to action for a lot of people .
It 's going to ignite something inside of them .
In your opinions , what should the conversation be centered around and what type of actions should directly follow those conversations ?
Africa Jr. : We need to do everything .
There 's no one thing that is going to change things .
We need to do everything possible .
It does n't matter if it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 's a street thing , any type of activity that we can get to make some changes is what people need to do .
There 's no right or wrong way to work to make a change , outside of just straight up violence , hurting somebody .
This is not a MOVE fight .
This is not a Tommy or Mike fight .
This is a something that affects us all .
Anything that people can do , they should do .
Oliver : I think people often get confused and they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Protesting is not the work , protesting is the sizzle .
The real work happens away from those things .
And that 's not to diminish the importance of protesting because it matters , but we need real change .
We need legislation change .
We need different people in office .
We need a ton of things that happen away from when people are out protesting because protesting will sometimes make you feel good for a bit and it 's , `` Hey , I did my part . ''
Well , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it .
That is a part of pushing the collective consciousness toward something that we need to be concerned with , but that 's not enough .
If we 're going to have a place where our kids inherit a world that is better than the world that we are currently living in today , there 's a lot that we have to do .
There 's a lot that we have to continue to push .

Eight-year-old me couldn't imagine not seeing my dad's smiling face on Christmas morning, or drawing my mom a cartoon-filled card covered in thank yous for Mother's Day, or the thousands of other memories small kids get to share with their parents. These types of memories make up the foundation of our traditions and are the things that we pass down to our kids. Mike Africa Jr., who was born in prison, was robbed of the chance of creating those in-person memories with his parents. The Philadelphia police department forced him to figure out life on his own.
Africa Jr.'s journey is brilliantly related in the new HBO documentary film, "40 Years a Prisoner," directed by Tommy Oliver and available now on HBO Max. Featuring an all-star ensemble of producers including The Roots, Common and John Legend, "40 Years A Prisoner" is a compelling film about the horrors of America's criminal justice system. The story begins in 1978 when Philadelphia police raided MOVE, a back to nature organization based on love, among other peaceful principles. Africa's parents, two MOVE members, were arrested during that raid on trumped up charges and convicted before he was born. In the film, Oliver documents Africa Jr.'s life pursuit of freeing his parents, along with other MOVE members, and a decades-long battle with the Philadelphia police department. I recently got a chance to talk with Africa Jr. and Oliver about the film on an episode of "Salon Talks."
Watch or read our conversation below to hear more about the never-before-seen archival materials that Oliver dug up about MOVE, what life is like for Africa Jr.'s parents now, and how the original MOVE members are responding to seeing their 40-year story on-screen.
Mike Africa Jr. on getting his parents out of prison, 40 years after Philly's MOVE raid
00:49/28:23
720
540
360
240
null
null
null
null
null
null
null
null
null
null
null
null
null
null
null
null
null
null
null
The following conversation has been lightly edited for clarity and length.
Tommy, in the film you document Mike's parents' long journey toward freedom with Mike at the center of it. A lot of people have heard of MOVE, but don't really know about some of the core principles and values. Can you give our readers and our viewers a brief history?
Mike Africa Jr.: The MOVE organization's belief is life, and our mission is to encourage people to protect life. There are companies that barter life for money, enslave animals like the zoo, and we protested against it. And that's really what started it because the industries that make the money off of enslaving life, they make money for themselves and they don't want anybody interrupting those establishments. They came at MOVE the way they came at us to try to stop us from speaking the truth about them.
It's crazy. And Tommy, you are a Philly native and a lot of this stuff was happening when you were growing up. When MOVE was in the news was it something people your age was connecting to?
Tommy Oliver: No, it wasn't. There were people who talked about MOVE, but they never really talked about it in a way that made a whole lot of sense or with a lot of clarity. And so there was always this group MOVE. I didn't really know what that meant or who that meant. And there was some bomb or something that happened and there was some incident and that was about it. I really didn't understand who they were or what happened until I got older and started doing my own research.
How'd you get involved?
Oliver: I am a research junkie, so I just started going through as much as I could. I read maybe seven books, probably 60-plus articles. And then I went to the Temple Urban Archive and I went through 72 boxes of stuff there, but I realized there were still things that were missing from what was there. I had a buddy who was working for the mayor, Maxwell Brown, introduce me to MOVE. He then introduced me to Ramona Africa. Ramona and I were set to meet and she brought along Mike, and I was like, "Who's this dude?" I wanted to meet Mona. But Mike and I, we hit it off very well in the beginning.
There were a couple of things that really stuck out to me at that point, which was almost four years ago at a cafe in West Philly. I remember it vividly. There was the idea that he was born in prison, which I had no idea about. That was just a strange thing. The fact that his parents and the rest of the MOVE nine, well, seven at that point – because two of them had passed away – were still in prison. And on top of that, he was fighting to get them out. Those were all very big things. He was somebody who had went through a ton of stuff yet, despite all of it, there was not a shred of bitterness about him. He had such a positivity that was clear even in that first meeting. I knew there was something to it.
The more that we talked and the more I understood the things that they were fighting against some 40 years ago — police brutality, wrongful incarceration, systemic racism, abuse of power — the same stuff we're fighting against today. It just became something that I had to be a part of. In general, MOVE had been pretty resistant to any type of media or journalist or anyone because they had been mistreated and misrepresented by the media for so long. But for one reason or another, he allowed me in in a very real open and honest way.
It's funny that you touched on bitterness because there are so many reasons for you to be frustrated, Mike. Instead, you give urgency and knowledge and power, but never bitterness. How are you able to tap into that and still be so driven around this case?
Africa, Jr.: A deep sense of clarity, right? I've had several meetings with the man that dropped the bomb on our house. He was the mayor of Philadelphia at the time. It was a really scary and hard thing to do. Wilson Goode was the boogeyman for me. When my cousins and my sister would come to my house and we would be talking about things, we'd try to scare each other. One of the ways that we'd try to scare each other is by saying, "Wilson Goode's going to get you."
If we don't recognize the mistakes that we made and move forward and grow from it, then we're going to be stuck in the same vicious cycle that we're in right now. It's really disheartening to see the police still say things like we "should have been killed." Eleven of my family members were killed by the police, and I'm not calling for the death of those police officers. I'm not even calling for their imprisonment. All I want is for us to be able to move forward and progress because that's the only way that we can actually make any kind of real change that could lead to any kind of peace.
What was the experience like to sitting down with the man responsible for the bombing?
Africa Jr.: It was the hardest thing I ever had to do in my life. I left the meeting vomiting. There's so many emotions that went through my body. Members of my family that had spent 40 years in prison, their kids were in the house that the bomb was dropped on. I'm getting nervous just thinking about it right now. There's this extreme feeling of dishonoring them. There was this horrible feeling of nervousness and fear, but I did it because those people were still in prison and this man was saying that he was willing to help them get out. I would do anything for my family, and going through what I went through with meeting the mayor and speaking to him over a dozen times, that is something that I would do a hundred times if it meant getting my people out of prison so they don't die in prison.
With all of the meetings that we've had, the results were positive. All of the MOVE non-members came home. Even though two of the members died in prison before that, one of the big benefits to me was that Delbert Africa, who people remember for being beat by four cops on August 8th, he was kicked so hard he was lifted up off the ground by the police and he was beaten. He was the Rodney King before Rodney King. He got out of prison and he died just six months later. But I really feel confident that the work that I did and the meetings that I had that were so hard to do was a big part of him coming home. Even though he only saw freedom for six months, at least he saw freedom.
We're living in a time and a space right now where people are finally starting to acknowledge that there's a whole lot of racist cops with the power to offset people's lives for generations. What we're not talking about enough is the system that promotes and honors and nurtures and cherishes that racism.
Oliver: People talk about the idea of the system and the police department being problematic and corrupt and a justice system that can convict nine people for the murder of one officer. They forget that these are instances of the system doing exactly and specifically what it was designed to do. Those aren't accidents. Those aren't outliers. Those are within the bounds of how our system is and was designed to function.
You have to remember where police departments came from. They grew out of slave catching. None of these things are mistakes or accidents. It requires a real understanding of that in order to fix the problem and not just a bunch of surface-level things to make us feel good or sleep better at night.
That's what we've done for the longest time. It's been a lot of "Hey, let me do this thing because things are bubbling up and we have to make a statement." One of the things that really bothers me is the idea that people have been talking about how alarmingly relevant this film is, how topical this film is. That breaks my f**king heart. We're talking about stuff that happened 40 years ago. 40 years ago and, case in point, the film screened at the Philadelphia Film Festival and it was a drive-in screening on a Monday. That same Monday, that very same day, was the day that Walter Wallace Jr. was killed in Philly across the street. Literally the same street as somebody in the film, a MOVE member, she lives on that block around the corner from what happened to MOVE.
We have a lot of work to do. I love Philly. I really do. And in many ways, this film is a love letter to Philly, but Philly needs to do better. Not that long after George Floyd was murdered, there was a video that I saw of Philadelphia police who were arresting a Black man and he yelled out, "I can't breathe." And the police officers screamed back, "That sh*t don't work here." And kept on with their knee on his neck.
I understand why you would get frustrated by people talking about why the film is timely, but this film has been timely since our existence in this country. People ask me all the time, "What has changed?" And I'm like, "The names of the victims." That's the only thing that changes.
Oliver: Exactly.
Mike, I want you to speak to this. We always hear about a few bad apples within departments and that most officers are here to protect us and make sure we're safe. But that's just not the case. It's not a few bad apples. I personally feel like it's a system that constantly grows all bad apples. Every time something like Walter Wallace happens, like Ahmaud Arbery happens, like Breonna Taylor happens, like George Floyd happens, I come back to this point.
Africa Jr.: The thing about the police department is that their emblem is a shield. What is a shield for? A shield is not something that a person who is offering a service carries. It's something that is in defense of something. It's like they're defending themselves against the public because they're protecting something that the public should destroy. The police don't exist to protect the people from each other. The police exist to protect industry from the people because the system that exists is destroying life. It's destroying us. It puts money between us and the things we need.
There's a system that exists that if you don't have money, you can't eat. If you don't have credentials from the system, you cannot get money. Why do we live in this society, in a system that would rather have people have billions of dollars and some people have no dollars? That's not because those people just work harder to get those things. Those things were stolen and protected by the police so that those people maintain it. But when the people rebel, they call us terrorists and violent. They call a person that breaks a glass window a rioter and a looter, but the man that kneels on George Floyd's neck is at home and being held like he's some kind of hero.
In Philadelphia, one of my friends, Ant Smith, was arrested because they said he was aiding and abetting a person that threw a Molotov cocktail at a police car and burned it up. The person that burned up the police car, allegedly, is facing 10 to 80 years in prison. She's been in jail since this whole year started. And he, according to them, aided and abetted her, he's facing 10 to 30 years in jail. But the people that actually did the murders throughout the country, they're all home. Kyle Rittenhouse is home. This is a system that is so bad, three Black people every day are killed by the police.
When people start talking about defunding the police and the police start coming back like they're so appalled by the fact that people are saying these things, they should understand that people are not saying these things because they just don't like police. They're saying these things because they are negatively affected by the actions of the police. People would not be saying those things if the police were doing the service that they claim to do. Calling for the abolishment of the police, is much more so about building community unity and providing the necessary resources so that the violent crime and the things that the police claim they're there for don't even exist. If f they're honest, they know that they would not want to be treated the way that they treat Black people.
Oliver: If you think about the film and you think about what happened to Delbert Africa, there are a couple of points to really dig into. One, what happened to Delbert was clear as day. It was recorded on film. There were witnesses. There were photographs. It was clear as day. It took a year to charge those officers who beat him and those officers all got off. Not only did they get off, it was a jury trial and the judge decided to unilaterally take the case away from them and issue a direct verdict of not guilty. Then those three officers went on air and said that they would do the exact same thing again.
I don't know how to reconcile that. It's such a hard thing because these are people that we are inclined to trust, people who are supposed to protect and serve. We want to believe them. We want to trust them. In addition to that, you think about what happened with the police commissioner. The commissioner, right after all of that happened, he went on air, and this is where most people got their information about MOVE. He goes up there and he says that he had a knife in one hand and a clip in the other. And that's one of the reasons why I showed you in the film when he said that versus what actually happened.
All you have to go off of is what the police commissioner said, who's up there with the mayor and the DA and these people who we are, again, inclined to trust. These are elected officials. These are community officials. These are people who are these giants and they are sitting there telling bold-faced lies. In a place like Philly this happened year in and year out for a long time. When you have a system that does those sorts of things, it makes it really hard to trust them. It makes it really hard to think that when I call these people, things will get better.
Watching the archival footage in the film and the reporting you captured, it made me feel like I was living through these experiences or going through these experiences with the Africa family. What type of emotions came out of both of you guys when you actually saw the finished product?
Africa, Jr.: There was a lot of emotions. On the one hand, I was so happy that Tommy put it together the way he did because I trusted him but there was still a level of reservation because we had been done so wrong in the media in the past. No matter how kind or polite people seemed, there was always some kind of negative spin on it that just made it feel like you can never trust anybody in any type of media. There was a part of me that was relieved because I've worked with Tommy and I didn't want to take a film to my family that I felt they wouldn't approve of. So that was a big part of it.
There was another part that was just so emotional for me — seeing my family the way they were in 1978 and the way they are now. They were young. There's a scene where he has the kids in the yard and those kids were in the house, May 13th. They were among the kids that were killed. So to see them and remember them, it was really touching and emotional. It felt like a piece of my life that was taken from me had been given back to me. When I watched it again with my parents and other MOVE members, I didn't even really spend a lot of time watching the film, I spent more time watching them relive those days. I knew that they were going to feel what I felt when I saw it. It's a breath of fresh air.
How have your parents been adjusting since they got home?
Africa, Jr.: There's a roller coaster of emotions with them. Keep in mind, 40 years had passed. We went through cassette tapes, CDs, mini disks. They had never seen a VCR tape. Home Depot didn't exist when they went to prison. We didn't have cell phones. There's so many things that they're learning at such a fast pace because 40 years ago, when they wanted something, they had to put it together, assemble it and wait. Now if they want anything, it's almost like it's instant. When we first came home, my mom and I were in the restaurant and she was looking for the knobs on the sink to turn the water on and the water spit out the faucet and she was amazed. It felt like the Jetsons or something to her. When I gave her a phone and Siri said, "Hello, Debbie, what do you need?" She threw her phone on the floor.
You might assume that when they come home their life is complete and this is all they wanted and now they're just happy and they're probably going to be happy forever. But there's also a deep sense of depression that comes with being released from prison. When they first went to prison my parents had all of their brothers and sisters, both their parents and a lot of friends. And even though they know that their parents passed away while they were in prison and that many of their brothers and sisters are gone. The last time they were actually home, they were with those people. When they come home, they still expect to see them and when that doesn't happen, the gravity of how much time has passed and how much they've lost since they've been away, begins to set in. There's a level of deep depression that comes. Fortunately, they came home to my house, and we were able to work through all of those things and get them to smooth sailing. Right now they're really, really happy. They're really good right now.
Oliver: The first time I'd been on a plane was in September, which was seven months after not being on a plane, and it was to go to Philly because I didn't want MOVE to be blindsided. The film was about to premiere in Toronto and I wanted to make sure that they saw the film before it was released to the world. It was a 450-seat theater in downtown Philly, and there were 15 of us in there, 15 MOVE members or so. I'm not a particularly emotional person at all but I remember when it started watching Mike, in particular, talk about his journey it got to me because he's talking about why he was fighting and continuing to fight to get them out and having been there for what followed that for years of the struggle, the heartache, the disappointment. I knew how much he wanted his family home and I knew that he was just a kid who wanted his parents home and the rest of his family home. And that was it. That's all it was. That really got to me.
The film is going to be a call to action for a lot of people. It's going to ignite something inside of them. In your opinions, what should the conversation be centered around and what type of actions should directly follow those conversations?
Africa Jr.: We need to do everything. There's no one thing that is going to change things. We need to do everything possible. It doesn't matter if it's a political thing, if it's a street thing, any type of activity that we can get to make some changes is what people need to do. There's no right or wrong way to work to make a change, outside of just straight up violence, hurting somebody. This is not a MOVE fight. This is not a Tommy or Mike fight. This is a something that affects us all. Anything that people can do, they should do.
Oliver: I think people often get confused and they think that protesting is the work. Protesting is not the work, protesting is the sizzle. The real work happens away from those things. And that's not to diminish the importance of protesting because it matters, but we need real change. We need legislation change. We need different people in office. We need a ton of things that happen away from when people are out protesting because protesting will sometimes make you feel good for a bit and it's, "Hey, I did my part." Well, no, that's a part of it. That is a part of pushing the collective consciousness toward something that we need to be concerned with, but that's not enough. If we're going to have a place where our kids inherit a world that is better than the world that we are currently living in today, there's a lot that we have to do. There's a lot that we have to continue to push.
"40 Years a Prisoner" is streaming on HBO Max.