npr--2020-07-20--'Fresh Air' Remembers Civil Rights Leader Rep. John Lewis

Lewis , who died July 17 , grew up the son of sharecroppers .
He later became an associate of Martin Luther King and co-led the 1965 civil rights march in Selma , Ala .
Originally broadcast in 2009 .
This is FRESH AIR .
We 're going to listen back to the interview I recorded with John Lewis that was first broadcast on January 19 , 2009 .
It was Martin Luther King Day and the day before the inauguration of America 's first African American president , Barack Obama .
In the 1960s , Lewis repeatedly risked his @ @ @ @ @ @ @ voting rights for Black people in the South .
When he was growing up in Alabama , there was one county whose population was 80 % African American , but there was n't a single registered Black voter .
Here 's our interview .
GROSS : Congressman Lewis , welcome to FRESH AIR , and thank you so much for joining us .
When you were a young man , were you ever challenged at the polls ?
Did you have a hard time registering , or did anyone ever try to prevent @ @ @ @ @ @ @ When I was growing up in rural Alabama , it was impossible for me to register to vote .
I did not become a registered voter until I moved to Tennessee , to Nashville as a student .
GROSS : Why was it impossible ?
LEWIS : Black men and women were not allowed to register to vote .
My own mother , my own father , my grandfather and my uncles and aunts could not register to vote because each time they attempted to register to vote , they were told they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And many people were so intimidated , so afraid that they would lose their job , they would be evicted from the farms and they just - they almost gave up .
GROSS : Your parents were sharecroppers .
Now ... LEWIS : My mother and father and many of my relatives had been sharecroppers .
They had been tenant farmers , like so many people in South .
They knew the stories that had occurred .
They knew places in Alabama where people were evicted from the farm , from the plantation @ @ @ @ @ @ @ about incidents in Tennessee where people were evicted from the farms and the plantation back in 1956 , in 1957 in west Tennessee between Nashville and Memphis , Tenn .
GROSS : Now , because of that , did you - did your parents tell you not to bother to try to vote because it would be dangerous , they might lose their farm ?
LEWIS : My parents told me in the very beginning - as a young child when I raised the question about segregation and racial discrimination , they told @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , not to get in trouble , not to make any noise .
But we had teachers .
We had high school principals .
We had people teaching in colleges and university in Tuskegee , Ala .
But they were told they failed the so-called literacy test .
GROSS : One of the more dramatic moments of the civil rights movement was a march that you helped lead in 1965 of about 600 people .
The march was supposed to be from Selma to Montgomery , Ala. , demanding voting rights .
But @ @ @ @ @ @ @ started marching .
And you were beaten by the police .
Would you talk first a little bit about the goal of that march ?
LEWIS : In 1965 , the attempted march from Selma to Montgomery on March 7 was planned to dramatize to the state of Alabama and to the nation that people of color wanted to register to vote .
In Selma , you could only attempt to register to vote on the first and third Mondays of each month .
You had to go down to the courthouse and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ test and attempt to pass the test .
And people stood in line day in and day out , failing to get a copy of the test or failing to pass the test .
So after several hundred people had been arrested and people had been beaten and one young man had been shot and killed , we decided to march .
And on Sunday afternoon , March 7 , about 600 of us left a little church called Brown Chapel AME Church and started walking in an orderly , peaceful , nonviolent @ @ @ @ @ @ @ We were walking in twos , no one saying a word .
We came to the edge of the bridge crossing the Alabama River .
We continued to walk .
We came to the highest point on the Edmund Pettus Bridge .
Down below , we saw a sea of blue - Alabama state troopers .
And we kept walking .
We came within hearing distance of the state troopers .
And a man identified himself and said , I 'm Major John Cloud of the Alabama state troopers .
This is an @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to continue .
I give you three minutes to disperse and return to your church .
In less than a minute and a half , the major said , troopers advance .
And you saw these men putting on their gas masks .
They came toward us , beating us with the bullwhips , nightsticks , shoving ( ph ) us with horses and releasing the tear gas .
I was hit in the head by a state trooper with a nightstick .
I thought I saw death .
I thought I was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ concussion there at the bridge .
And almost 44 years later , I do n't recall how I made it back across that bridge through the streets of Selma .
But I do recall being back at the church that Sunday afternoon .
The church was full to capacity , more than 2,000 people on the outside .
And someone said to me , John , say something to the audience .
Speak to them .
And I stood up and said something like , I do n't understand it - how President @ @ @ @ @ @ @ can not send troops to Selma , Ala. , to protect people who only desire is to register to vote .
GROSS : We 're listening to the interview I recorded with John Lewis in 2009 .
We 'll continue the interview after a break and hear how he started working with Martin Luther King .
And Maureen Corrigan will review a new novel set during the 1918 flu pandemic by Emma Donoghue , who also wrote the novel `` Room , '' which was adapted into a film of the same name @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this is FRESH AIR .
GROSS : This is FRESH AIR .
I 'm Terry Gross .
Let 's get back to the interview I recorded with John Lewis in 2009 .
When we left off , he was talking about leading the voting rights march from Selma to Montgomery , Ala. , on March 7 , 1965 , a march that quickly ended when state troopers attacked the demonstrators on the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma .
That day became known as Bloody Sunday .
It led to the passage of the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ GROSS : What was the impact , do you think , of that march on the actual passage of the Voting Rights Act ?
LEWIS : The march created a sense of righteous indignation among the American people .
When they saw the photographs , when they read the stories , when they heard the news on the radio or watched it on television , they did n't like it .
A few days after Bloody Sunday , there was demonstration in more than 80 American cities - at the White House , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ were demanding that the government act .
President Johnson did n't like what he saw .
He called Governor Wallace , the governor of Alabama at the time , to come to Washington and tried to get assurance from the governor that he would be able to protect us if we decided to march again .
The governor could not assure the president , so President Johnson federalized the Alabama National Guard , called up part of the United States military .
And eight days after Bloody Sunday , President Lyndon Johnson spoke @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and made one of the most meaningful speeches any American president had made in modern time on the whole question of voting rights and introduced the Voting Rights Act .
And I was sitting in a home in Selma , Ala. , that evening when President Johnson spoke to the nation and spoke to the Congress , sitting with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And at one point in the speech , before Dr. - before President Johnson , rather , concluded the speech , he said , and we shall overcome .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ at Dr. King .
Tears came down his face .
And we all cried a little to hear President Johnson say , and we shall overcome .
And he said to me and to others in the room , we will make it from Selma to Montgomery , and the Voting Rights Act will be passed .
Finally , two weeks after Bloody Sunday , we started on the third effort to make it from Selma to Montgomery .
Three hundred of us marched all the way .
But by the time we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ than 25,000 citizens .
And that effort led the Congress to debate the Voting Rights Act and pass that act .
And President Johnson signed it into law in August of 1965 .
GROSS : Can you talk a little bit about how your mindset changed to go from what your parents told you , which was do n't make trouble , it 's too risky - to making a lot of trouble , to leading marches , to be willing to get beaten on the head and knocked unconscious to stand up @ @ @ @ @ @ @ LEWIS : Well , growing up , I saw segregation .
I saw racial discrimination .
I saw those signs that said white men , colored men , white women , colored women , white waiting - and I did n't like it .
I would ask my mother and ask my parents over and over again , why ?
They said , that 's the way it is .
Do n't get in the way .
Do n't get in trouble .
I was so inspired by Rosa Parks in 1955 .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ was inspired by Martin Luther King Jr .
I heard his words on an old radio .
It seemed like he was saying to me , John Lewis , you , too , can make a contribution .
GROSS : Well , what was he saying on the radio ?
LEWIS : He was saying that we must not just be concerned ...
GROSS : Was it a sermon or something or a speech ?
Was it a sermon or a speech ?
LEWIS : It was a speech but also a sermon @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in Montgomery .
And he was saying , in effect , that we must not just be concerned about the pearly gates and the streets with milk and honey .
We have to be concerned about the streets of Montgomery and the doors of Woolworth , that we had to be concerned about jobs , about Blacks working as cashiers , of people being able to try on clothing and bringing down those signs .
And I said to myself , if I ever got a chance to strike a blow against segregation @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to play my part .
I 'm going to do my part .
I was so inspired by Dr. King that in 1956 , with some of my brothers and sisters and first cousins - I was only 16 year old - we went down to the public library trying to check out some books .
And we were told by the librarian that the library was for whites only and not for coloreds .
It was a public library .
I never went back to that public library until July 5 , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 'm in the Congress - for a book signing my book `` Walking With The Wind . ''
LEWIS : And they gave me a library card after the program was over .
And I was inspired .
I studied the philosophy and the discipline of nonviolence in Nashville as a student .
And I staged a sitting-in in the fall of 1959 and got arrested the first time in February 1960 .
GROSS : Now , you describe the difficulty your parents had accepting the risks that you were taking as a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , did you find it was difficult to convince the older generation to join up with the movement ?
Was it easier to convince younger people than older people ?
LEWIS : It was much easier to convince younger people , to convince students , whether they were in high school or college students .
In the South during that period , there was so much fear .
But there were others who said - when we held the mass meetings , the rallies , the voter registration workshop in a church - @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it 's taking place in a church ; it must be OK .
It must be all right .
There was ministers , religious leaders that was afraid to say anything from their pulpits 'cause they thought , for good reason , the church could be burned down , could be bombed .
So we had to do a lot of convincing .
And we would go into the fields where people were working in the fields .
We 'd go in the beauty shops , the barber shops and knock on the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ get them to become participants , to get involved , to come to a rally , come to a mass meeting .
GROSS : Give me a sense of what you 'd say .
LEWIS : We would say to people , you know , you 've been living here for 40 years , for 50 years .
Your street is not paved .
You have a dirt road .
You do n't have clean water .
If you want to change that , you must register and you must vote .
You @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to a mass meeting .
Come next Monday .
Your neighbors are coming .
Your uncle is coming .
Your children are coming .
You should be there .
Tell people we 're going to have a march for the right to vote .
Do n't be afraid .
You may get arrested , but there are a lot of other people that will be getting arrested with you .
And some people will be convinced , and some will not .
GROSS : We 're listening to my 2009 interview with the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Lewis .
We 'll hear more of the interview after a break .
This is FRESH AIR .
GROSS : This is FRESH AIR .
Let 's get back to my interview with John Lewis .
It was first broadcast on January 19 , 2009 .
It was Martin Luther King Day and the day before the inauguration of America 's first African American president , Barack Obama .
GROSS : I 'd love to hear the story of how you first met Reverend King .
LEWIS : In 1957 , when I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ years old .
This was two years after the Montgomery Bus Boycott , two years after Rosa Parks had taken her seat .
And Dr. King had emerged as a national leader .
I wanted to attend a little college about 10 miles from my home .
It was an all-white state college .
I submitted my high school application .
I never heard a word from the college .
So I wrote a letter to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr .
I did n't tell my mother , my father .
Dr. @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a round trip Greyhound bus ticket and invited me to come to Montgomery to see him .
In the meantime , I had been accepted at a little college in Nashville , Tenn .
So in September 1957 , I went off to school to Nashville .
And after being there for two weeks , I told one of my teachers that I had been in contact with Dr. King .
This teacher informed Dr. King that I was in school in Nashville .
So Martin Luther King Jr. got back in touch @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was home from spring break , to come and see him .
So my father drove me to the Greyhound bus station .
I boarded the bus to travel from Troy to Montgomery .
And a young lawyer by the name of Fred Gray , who was the lawyer for Rosa Parks , for Dr. King and the Montgomery movement , met me at the Greyhound bus station and drove me to the First Baptist Church and ushered me into the office of the church .
I saw Martin Luther King Jr. standing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ scared .
I did n't know what to say or what to do .
And Dr. King spoke up and said , oh , you the boy from Troy .
Are you John Lewis ?
And I said , Dr. King , I am John Robert Lewis .
I gave my whole name .
And that was my meeting of Martin Luther King Jr. for the first time GROSS : So what did he do ?
Did he try to encourage you to keep trying to get into that white college ?
Or @ @ @ @ @ @ @ just come join the movement , work with me ?
LEWIS : No , Martin Luther King Jr. said to me , we want to help .
If you want to go to Troy State , we will help you .
We would hire Fred Gray as the lawyer to file a suit against Troy State .
But he went on to say , if you really pursue this effort , your family home can be bombed or burned down .
They could lose their jobs .
You may be beaten .
Things @ @ @ @ @ @ @ must be willing to do it .
And I told him I was willing to do it .
But he said , you must go home and talk to your mother and talk to your father and get them to be willing to file the suit .
So that afternoon , I went back to Troy , Ala. , met with my mother , met my father , told them about the discussion I had with Dr. King .
And they were so scared .
They was so frightened .
They did n't @ @ @ @ @ @ @ me pursuing my effort to enter Troy State College .
So I continued to study in Nashville .
GROSS : And did other things in the civil rights movement instead .
LEWIS : Well , I continued the sit-ins , got on the Freedom Rides and became an active participant , not just in Nashville but throughout the American South .
GROSS : What impact did his assassination have on you ?
LEWIS : I mourned , and I cried like millions of our citizens did .
I heard that he had been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in Indianapolis , Ind.
, campaigning with him .
But somehow I said to myself , I 'm not going to become bitter or hostile .
I 'm not going to give up or give in .
I threw myself more into that campaign , and I made a commitment to myself that I would do what I can to continue the work with Dr. King and later , after Bobby Kennedy was assassinated two months later , to continue his effort to make our country a more just , a more fair @ @ @ @ @ @ @ quote something that you wrote in an op-ed piece in October of 2003 .
And this was about gay rights and the right for gay people to marry .
You wrote , `` I have fought too hard and too long against discrimination based on race and color not to stand up against discrimination based on sexual orientation .
I 've heard the reasons for opposing civil marriage for same-sex couples , cut through the distractions , and they stink of the same fear , hatred and intolerance I have known in racism @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , I think more than never before , we have to speak up and speak out to end discrimination based on sexual orientation .
Dr. King used to say when people talked about Blacks and whites falling in love and getting married - you know , at one time , in the state of Virginia , in my native state of Alabama , in Georgia and other parts of the South , Blacks and whites could not fall in love and get married .
And Dr. King took a simple argument and said @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and get married ; individuals fall in love and get married .
It 's not the business of the federal government .
It 's not the business of the state government to tell two individuals that they can not fall in love and get married .
And so I go back to what I said and wrote those lines a few years ago - that I fought too long and too hard against discrimination based on race and color not to stand up and fight and speak out against discrimination based on sexual @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that now that Barack Obama is about to become president that a lot of people might be thinking - whew , well , solved the racism problem - glad that 's over , do n't have to worry about that anymore , do n't have to take that into account anymore ?
LEWIS : I am concerned that there are some feelings in certain quarters and some corners that - what do people of color want now ?
We elected Barack Obama as president - It 's over .
People talk about the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not as the end but as a continuum - that we 're not there yet .
We have not yet created the beloved community that Dr. King spoke of .
I see this as a down payment - a major down payment on the dream of Martin Luther King Jr .
Even with his election , we still have a great distance to go before we lay down the burden of race .
GROSS : Of all the people who have passed on who you were close to , who are some of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you most wish were here today to witness the inauguration of America 's first African American president ?
LEWIS : Oh , I wish - I truly wish - there are so many people , many of these just Indigenous people that have stood in those unmovable lines in the heart of the Deep South .
Many of the people that were on that bridge on Bloody Sunday , I wish they could be here today .
But many of them have gone on , individuals like Fannie Lou Hamer , sharecropper in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ but who testified at the Democratic convention in 1964 .
I wish that Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. , President Johnson and President Kennedy and others could witness what is happening in America .
I do n't know how I 'm going to take it all in because from sitting on the steps , I will be able to look right down the Mall and see past the Washington Monument and see the Lincoln Memorial , where we stood more than 45 years ago .
And during those days , during @ @ @ @ @ @ @ who voted for him could not register and vote .
GROSS : Congressman John Lewis , thank you so much for talking with us .
LEWIS : Well , thank you very much .
Thank you .
GROSS : My interview with Congressman John Lewis was first broadcast on January 19 , 2009 , the day before the inauguration of Barack Obama .
Lewis died of pancreatic cancer on Friday .
His death has led to a surge of support in the effort to rename the Edmund Pettus Bridge .
The bridge was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ day in 1965 when Lewis and scores of other demonstrators he led demanding voting rights were attacked by Alabama state troopers .
Edmund Pettus was a Confederate general and a former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan .
The people who want to remove Pettus ' name want to rename the bridge the John Lewis Bridge .
After we take a short break , Maureen Corrigan will review a new novel set during the 1918 flu pandemic .
This is FRESH AIR .

'Fresh Air' Remembers Civil Rights Leader Rep. John Lewis
Lewis, who died July 17, grew up the son of sharecroppers. He later became an associate of Martin Luther King and co-led the 1965 civil rights march in Selma, Ala. Originally broadcast in 2009.
TERRY GROSS, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. We're going to listen back to the interview I recorded with John Lewis that was first broadcast on January 19, 2009. It was Martin Luther King Day and the day before the inauguration of America's first African American president, Barack Obama.
In the 1960s, Lewis repeatedly risked his life working to end segregation and gain voting rights for Black people in the South. When he was growing up in Alabama, there was one county whose population was 80% African American, but there wasn't a single registered Black voter. Here's our interview.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
GROSS: Congressman Lewis, welcome to FRESH AIR, and thank you so much for joining us.
When you were a young man, were you ever challenged at the polls? Did you have a hard time registering, or did anyone ever try to prevent you from voting?
JOHN LEWIS: When I was growing up in rural Alabama, it was impossible for me to register to vote. I did not become a registered voter until I moved to Tennessee, to Nashville as a student.
GROSS: Why was it impossible?
LEWIS: Black men and women were not allowed to register to vote. My own mother, my own father, my grandfather and my uncles and aunts could not register to vote because each time they attempted to register to vote, they were told they could not pass the literacy tests. And many people were so intimidated, so afraid that they would lose their job, they would be evicted from the farms and they just - they almost gave up.
GROSS: Your parents were sharecroppers. Now...
LEWIS: My mother and father and many of my relatives had been sharecroppers. They had been tenant farmers, like so many people in South. They knew the stories that had occurred. They knew places in Alabama where people were evicted from the farm, from the plantation. They read about, they heard about incidents in Tennessee where people were evicted from the farms and the plantation back in 1956, in 1957 in west Tennessee between Nashville and Memphis, Tenn.
GROSS: Now, because of that, did you - did your parents tell you not to bother to try to vote because it would be dangerous, they might lose their farm?
LEWIS: My parents told me in the very beginning - as a young child when I raised the question about segregation and racial discrimination, they told me not to get in the way, not to get in trouble, not to make any noise. But we had teachers. We had high school principals. We had people teaching in colleges and university in Tuskegee, Ala. But they were told they failed the so-called literacy test.
GROSS: One of the more dramatic moments of the civil rights movement was a march that you helped lead in 1965 of about 600 people. The march was supposed to be from Selma to Montgomery, Ala., demanding voting rights. But the marchers were stopped soon after you started marching. And you were beaten by the police. Would you talk first a little bit about the goal of that march?
LEWIS: In 1965, the attempted march from Selma to Montgomery on March 7 was planned to dramatize to the state of Alabama and to the nation that people of color wanted to register to vote. In Selma, you could only attempt to register to vote on the first and third Mondays of each month. You had to go down to the courthouse and get a copy of the so-called literacy test and attempt to pass the test. And people stood in line day in and day out, failing to get a copy of the test or failing to pass the test.
So after several hundred people had been arrested and people had been beaten and one young man had been shot and killed, we decided to march. And on Sunday afternoon, March 7, about 600 of us left a little church called Brown Chapel AME Church and started walking in an orderly, peaceful, nonviolent fashion through the streets of Selma. We were walking in twos, no one saying a word. We came to the edge of the bridge crossing the Alabama River. We continued to walk.
We came to the highest point on the Edmund Pettus Bridge. Down below, we saw a sea of blue - Alabama state troopers. And we kept walking. We came within hearing distance of the state troopers. And a man identified himself and said, I'm Major John Cloud of the Alabama state troopers. This is an unlawful march. You will not allowed to continue. I give you three minutes to disperse and return to your church.
In less than a minute and a half, the major said, troopers advance. And you saw these men putting on their gas masks. They came toward us, beating us with the bullwhips, nightsticks, shoving (ph) us with horses and releasing the tear gas. I was hit in the head by a state trooper with a nightstick. I thought I saw death. I thought I was going to die. I had a concussion there at the bridge. And almost 44 years later, I don't recall how I made it back across that bridge through the streets of Selma.
But I do recall being back at the church that Sunday afternoon. The church was full to capacity, more than 2,000 people on the outside. And someone said to me, John, say something to the audience. Speak to them. And I stood up and said something like, I don't understand it - how President Johnson can send troops to Vietnam but cannot send troops to Selma, Ala., to protect people who only desire is to register to vote.
GROSS: We're listening to the interview I recorded with John Lewis in 2009. We'll continue the interview after a break and hear how he started working with Martin Luther King. And Maureen Corrigan will review a new novel set during the 1918 flu pandemic by Emma Donoghue, who also wrote the novel "Room," which was adapted into a film of the same name. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF JOHN COLTRANE'S "ALABAMA (LIVE AT BIRDLAND JAZZCLUB, NEW YORK CITY, NY, 10/18/1963)")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to the interview I recorded with John Lewis in 2009. When we left off, he was talking about leading the voting rights march from Selma to Montgomery, Ala., on March 7, 1965, a march that quickly ended when state troopers attacked the demonstrators on the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma. That day became known as Bloody Sunday. It led to the passage of the Voting Rights Act five months later.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
GROSS: What was the impact, do you think, of that march on the actual passage of the Voting Rights Act?
LEWIS: The march created a sense of righteous indignation among the American people. When they saw the photographs, when they read the stories, when they heard the news on the radio or watched it on television, they didn't like it. A few days after Bloody Sunday, there was demonstration in more than 80 American cities - at the White House, at the Department of Justice. People were demanding that the government act.
President Johnson didn't like what he saw. He called Governor Wallace, the governor of Alabama at the time, to come to Washington and tried to get assurance from the governor that he would be able to protect us if we decided to march again. The governor could not assure the president, so President Johnson federalized the Alabama National Guard, called up part of the United States military. And eight days after Bloody Sunday, President Lyndon Johnson spoke to a joint session of the Congress and made one of the most meaningful speeches any American president had made in modern time on the whole question of voting rights and introduced the Voting Rights Act.
And I was sitting in a home in Selma, Ala., that evening when President Johnson spoke to the nation and spoke to the Congress, sitting with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And at one point in the speech, before Dr. - before President Johnson, rather, concluded the speech, he said, and we shall overcome. And we shall overcome. I looked at Dr. King. Tears came down his face. And we all cried a little to hear President Johnson say, and we shall overcome. And he said to me and to others in the room, we will make it from Selma to Montgomery, and the Voting Rights Act will be passed.
Finally, two weeks after Bloody Sunday, we started on the third effort to make it from Selma to Montgomery. Three hundred of us marched all the way. But by the time we walked into Montgomery, there were more than 25,000 citizens. And that effort led the Congress to debate the Voting Rights Act and pass that act. And President Johnson signed it into law in August of 1965.
GROSS: Can you talk a little bit about how your mindset changed to go from what your parents told you, which was don't make trouble, it's too risky - to making a lot of trouble, to leading marches, to be willing to get beaten on the head and knocked unconscious to stand up for what you thought was right?
LEWIS: Well, growing up, I saw segregation. I saw racial discrimination. I saw those signs that said white men, colored men, white women, colored women, white waiting - and I didn't like it. I would ask my mother and ask my parents over and over again, why? They said, that's the way it is. Don't get in the way. Don't get in trouble. I was so inspired by Rosa Parks in 1955. I was 15 years old. I was inspired by Martin Luther King Jr. I heard his words on an old radio. It seemed like he was saying to me, John Lewis, you, too, can make a contribution.
GROSS: Well, what was he saying on the radio?
LEWIS: He was saying that we must not just be concerned...
GROSS: Was it a sermon or something or a speech? Was it a sermon or a speech?
LEWIS: It was a speech but also a sermon. He was speaking at a church in Montgomery. And he was saying, in effect, that we must not just be concerned about the pearly gates and the streets with milk and honey. We have to be concerned about the streets of Montgomery and the doors of Woolworth, that we had to be concerned about jobs, about Blacks working as cashiers, of people being able to try on clothing and bringing down those signs. And I said to myself, if I ever got a chance to strike a blow against segregation and racial discrimination, I'm going to play my part. I'm going to do my part.
I was so inspired by Dr. King that in 1956, with some of my brothers and sisters and first cousins - I was only 16 year old - we went down to the public library trying to check out some books. And we were told by the librarian that the library was for whites only and not for coloreds. It was a public library. I never went back to that public library until July 5, 1998 - by this time, I'm in the Congress - for a book signing my book "Walking With The Wind."
GROSS: (Laughter) Your memoir.
LEWIS: And they gave me a library card after the program was over. And I was inspired. I studied the philosophy and the discipline of nonviolence in Nashville as a student. And I staged a sitting-in in the fall of 1959 and got arrested the first time in February 1960.
GROSS: Now, you describe the difficulty your parents had accepting the risks that you were taking as a civil rights activist. As an activist, did you find it was difficult to convince the older generation to join up with the movement? Was it easier to convince younger people than older people?
LEWIS: It was much easier to convince younger people, to convince students, whether they were in high school or college students. In the South during that period, there was so much fear. But there were others who said - when we held the mass meetings, the rallies, the voter registration workshop in a church - it was this feeling, well, it's taking place in a church; it must be OK. It must be all right. There was ministers, religious leaders that was afraid to say anything from their pulpits 'cause they thought, for good reason, the church could be burned down, could be bombed. So we had to do a lot of convincing. And we would go into the fields where people were working in the fields. We'd go in the beauty shops, the barber shops and knock on the doors of people's homes trying to get them to become participants, to get involved, to come to a rally, come to a mass meeting.
GROSS: Give me a sense of what you'd say.
LEWIS: We would say to people, you know, you've been living here for 40 years, for 50 years. Your street is not paved. You have a dirt road. You don't have clean water. If you want to change that, you must register and you must vote. You can get someone else elected. Come to a mass meeting. Come next Monday. Your neighbors are coming. Your uncle is coming. Your children are coming. You should be there. Tell people we're going to have a march for the right to vote. Don't be afraid. You may get arrested, but there are a lot of other people that will be getting arrested with you. And some people will be convinced, and some will not.
GROSS: We're listening to my 2009 interview with the late civil rights activist and congressman John Lewis. We'll hear more of the interview after a break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MARVIN GAYE SONG, "INNER CITY BLUES (MAKE ME WANNA HOLLER)")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with John Lewis. It was first broadcast on January 19, 2009. It was Martin Luther King Day and the day before the inauguration of America's first African American president, Barack Obama.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
GROSS: I'd love to hear the story of how you first met Reverend King.
LEWIS: In 1957, when I finished high school, I was 17 years old. This was two years after the Montgomery Bus Boycott, two years after Rosa Parks had taken her seat. And Dr. King had emerged as a national leader. I wanted to attend a little college about 10 miles from my home. It was an all-white state college. I submitted my high school application. I never heard a word from the college. So I wrote a letter to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. I didn't tell my mother, my father. Dr. King wrote me back, sent me a round trip Greyhound bus ticket and invited me to come to Montgomery to see him.
In the meantime, I had been accepted at a little college in Nashville, Tenn. So in September 1957, I went off to school to Nashville. And after being there for two weeks, I told one of my teachers that I had been in contact with Dr. King. This teacher informed Dr. King that I was in school in Nashville. So Martin Luther King Jr. got back in touch with me and suggested, when I was home from spring break, to come and see him. So my father drove me to the Greyhound bus station. I boarded the bus to travel from Troy to Montgomery. And a young lawyer by the name of Fred Gray, who was the lawyer for Rosa Parks, for Dr. King and the Montgomery movement, met me at the Greyhound bus station and drove me to the First Baptist Church and ushered me into the office of the church.
I saw Martin Luther King Jr. standing behind a desk. I was so scared. I didn't know what to say or what to do. And Dr. King spoke up and said, oh, you the boy from Troy. Are you John Lewis? And I said, Dr. King, I am John Robert Lewis. I gave my whole name. And that was my meeting of Martin Luther King Jr. for the first time
GROSS: So what did he do? Did he try to encourage you to keep trying to get into that white college? Or did he say, forget college; just come join the movement, work with me?
LEWIS: No, Martin Luther King Jr. said to me, we want to help. If you want to go to Troy State, we will help you. We would hire Fred Gray as the lawyer to file a suit against Troy State. But he went on to say, if you really pursue this effort, your family home can be bombed or burned down. They could lose their jobs. You may be beaten. Things could happen to you, but you must be willing to do it. And I told him I was willing to do it. But he said, you must go home and talk to your mother and talk to your father and get them to be willing to file the suit.
So that afternoon, I went back to Troy, Ala., met with my mother, met my father, told them about the discussion I had with Dr. King. And they were so scared. They was so frightened. They didn't want to have anything to do with me pursuing my effort to enter Troy State College. So I continued to study in Nashville.
GROSS: And did other things in the civil rights movement instead.
LEWIS: Well, I continued the sit-ins, got on the Freedom Rides and became an active participant, not just in Nashville but throughout the American South.
GROSS: What impact did his assassination have on you?
LEWIS: I mourned, and I cried like millions of our citizens did. I heard that he had been assassinated. I was with Robert Kennedy in Indianapolis, Ind., campaigning with him. But somehow I said to myself, I'm not going to become bitter or hostile. I'm not going to give up or give in. I threw myself more into that campaign, and I made a commitment to myself that I would do what I can to continue the work with Dr. King and later, after Bobby Kennedy was assassinated two months later, to continue his effort to make our country a more just, a more fair country.
GROSS: I want to quote something that you wrote in an op-ed piece in October of 2003. And this was about gay rights and the right for gay people to marry. You wrote, "I have fought too hard and too long against discrimination based on race and color not to stand up against discrimination based on sexual orientation. I've heard the reasons for opposing civil marriage for same-sex couples, cut through the distractions, and they stink of the same fear, hatred and intolerance I have known in racism and bigotry."
LEWIS: Today, I think more than never before, we have to speak up and speak out to end discrimination based on sexual orientation. Dr. King used to say when people talked about Blacks and whites falling in love and getting married - you know, at one time, in the state of Virginia, in my native state of Alabama, in Georgia and other parts of the South, Blacks and whites could not fall in love and get married. And Dr. King took a simple argument and said, races don't fall in love and get married; individuals fall in love and get married. It's not the business of the federal government. It's not the business of the state government to tell two individuals that they cannot fall in love and get married. And so I go back to what I said and wrote those lines a few years ago - that I fought too long and too hard against discrimination based on race and color not to stand up and fight and speak out against discrimination based on sexual orientation.
GROSS: Are you concerned that now that Barack Obama is about to become president that a lot of people might be thinking - whew, well, solved the racism problem - glad that's over, don't have to worry about that anymore, don't have to take that into account anymore?
LEWIS: I am concerned that there are some feelings in certain quarters and some corners that - what do people of color want now? We elected Barack Obama as president - It's over. People talk about the post-racial America. I see his election not as the end but as a continuum - that we're not there yet. We have not yet created the beloved community that Dr. King spoke of. I see this as a down payment - a major down payment on the dream of Martin Luther King Jr. Even with his election, we still have a great distance to go before we lay down the burden of race.
GROSS: Of all the people who have passed on who you were close to, who are some of the people who you were - who you most wish were here today to witness the inauguration of America's first African American president?
LEWIS: Oh, I wish - I truly wish - there are so many people, many of these just Indigenous people that have stood in those unmovable lines in the heart of the Deep South. Many of the people that were on that bridge on Bloody Sunday, I wish they could be here today. But many of them have gone on, individuals like Fannie Lou Hamer, sharecropper in the Delta of Mississippi who was beaten but who testified at the Democratic convention in 1964. I wish that Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr., President Johnson and President Kennedy and others could witness what is happening in America.
I don't know how I'm going to take it all in because from sitting on the steps, I will be able to look right down the Mall and see past the Washington Monument and see the Lincoln Memorial, where we stood more than 45 years ago. And during those days, during that period, many of the people who voted for him could not register and vote.
GROSS: Congressman John Lewis, thank you so much for talking with us.
LEWIS: Well, thank you very much. Thank you.
GROSS: My interview with Congressman John Lewis was first broadcast on January 19, 2009, the day before the inauguration of Barack Obama. Lewis died of pancreatic cancer on Friday. His death has led to a surge of support in the effort to rename the Edmund Pettus Bridge. The bridge was the site of Bloody Sunday, the day in 1965 when Lewis and scores of other demonstrators he led demanding voting rights were attacked by Alabama state troopers. Edmund Pettus was a Confederate general and a former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The people who want to remove Pettus' name want to rename the bridge the John Lewis Bridge.
After we take a short break, Maureen Corrigan will review a new novel set during the 1918 flu pandemic. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF JOE HENDERSON'S "ISFAHAN")
Copyright © 2020 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.


npr--2020-07-20--8 Things Teen Girl Activists Want You To Know About Their Pandemic Life

8 Things Teen Girl Activists Want You To Know About Their Pandemic Life The pandemic has definitely changed things for teenage girl activists .
They 're worried about new problems , they 're facing bad attitudes – and they 're experimenting with new quarantine lifestyles , including one teen 's three-week `` no-phone '' detox .
( Spoiler alert : She survived and thrived . )
NPR spoke to 11 girl activists during the ( virtual ) 2020 Girl Up Leadership Summit last week .
Established by the United Nations Foundation , Girl Up encourages young females to advocate for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ girls and women around the world .
For many of the teens , the pandemic has worsened the problems against which they are passionately fighting .
But that has only made them more determined to speak up .
Here 's what they had to say in a joint Zoom interview .
( This conversation has been edited for brevity and clarity . )
The pre-pandemic style of activism does n't always work .
Muse is the co-founder of Kow iyo Labo , a nonprofit that has offered free tutoring and mentoring for low-income @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Funded mainly by donations , the group has helped more than 200 students to date .
But the coronavirus shut down the free , in-person lessons , and online learning is n't an option since many of her regular students do n't have access to computers or Wi-Fi , she says .
`` Kow iyo Labo '' means `` 1 and 2 '' in Somali and stands for two things , Muse says : `` Education equity begins very early on before kids are even learning their numbers , and we , as @ @ @ @ @ @ @ getting started ! ''
The nonprofit has put a pause on tutoring until in-person lessons can resume .
Goel , whose ethnic background is Indian , says she has seen racism against Asian communities intensify during the lockdown , especially at the beginning of the pandemic when the virus was first reported in China .
`` A lot of my friends got hate messages , hate texts , '' she says .
`` People were saying things like 'Go back to your country ' and using slurs , curse words and racial stereotypes @ @ @ @ @ @ @ health .
It makes one anxious to go into the public .
It also just made us feel afraid and insecure of who we are as people . ''
The racial justice movement that was galvanized by George Floyd 's death resonates deeply with them .
Growing up in South Carolina , Louis-Jean has experienced racism firsthand .
`` A lot of people — especially in middle school — would say the N-word .
I remember one time , a kid had a Confederate flag on the bus and was saying KKK slogans @ @ @ @ @ @ @ said anything . ''
When she saw the Confederate flag removed from her statehouse in July 2015 after a white supremacist carried out a mass shooting , Louis-Jean started speaking up .
`` It ignited me to take that step and encourage my peers and create awareness . ''
Now she volunteers with the Save the Children Action Network to urge elected officials to address issues critical to children 's lives , including racism .
Alliyah Logan , 18 , New York City – activist for safety among minority youth Logan is an @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in vulnerable neighborhoods such as hers in the Bronx .
She speaks up and writes about issues that make her and other minorities feel threatened and unsafe .
`` A lot of my peers have been impacted by gun violence and violence in general in our neighborhood because there 's a lack of protection for Black and brown youth , '' she says .
`` With COVID-19 , I saw that those same communities did n't have access to medical resources . ''
Once the Black Lives Matter protests began , she took @ @ @ @ @ @ @ New York Justice League : `` I think it says a lot about our country , about America , that Black people have to put their lives on the line within a global pandemic to advocate against racism . ''
Logan also speaks out about issues such as over-policing in schools .
They 're as passionate as ever about girls ' rights .
Onanuga attends a predominantly Black , underprivileged school in South London .
`` There is such a massive gap in STEM [ science , technology , engineering and mathematics ] @ @ @ @ @ @ @ man 's world .
We 're told that that line of work is n't for women .
That 's not the case .
Whatever a man can do , as long as I 'm headstrong , I can do it as well . ''
`` I am a Muslim Arab girl living in the Middle East .
There 's lots of stereotypes and misconceptions about Arab women .
Lots of people think we are all oppressed , and this undermines the achievements of Arab women .
I want to show Arab girls that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you want .
From a very young age , I was extremely interested in politics .
My passion is women political leadership and women and peace building .
Lebanon is considered the most progressive Arab country , but right now we only have six women in Parliament out of 128 . ''
`` I went to 100 % Black , underfunded elementary and middle schools in Minneapolis , '' Muse says .
She got her first glimpse at the inequities that exist in education when she transferred to a better-funded high school in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ place where our gym , cafeteria , everything was one classroom , then going to a place where they have a gym , a cafeteria and a huge basketball court the size of my whole [ former ] school .
My friends [ from my old school ] would see me going to things like speech and debate , and they would say , 'Oh , I wish our school had that . '
The high school I would have [ attended ] had no clubs .
No extracurricular activities .
It was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ began , violence against women all over the world has intensified , according to research conducted by U.N. Women .
Beyer says she is particularly concerned about women in her country , where calls to the nation 's domestic violence hotline reportedly have increased 150 % compared with this same time last year .
They 're big TikTok fans in spite of the controversy over the social media platform .
`` Honestly , for me it 's TikTok right now .
I think other platforms are a little boring .
It 's super @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , protests and social justice movements all the time .
I was able to see ways to stay safe during the protest or ways to advocate if you ca n't make it to protests . ''
`` Personally , it 's always going to be Instagram first for me .
But one of my friends has been getting quite a following on TikTok sharing her opinions .
You get these short videos — 15 seconds or a bit more to make a point .
And it makes people really direct and bold , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ When you have a short time to talk about something , you just say the biggest point . ''
They 're making the best of quarantine life .
`` I 've actually been thriving in quarantine , and that is an indicator of my privilege — living in a house that has running water , electricity .
I really do value family time a lot .
My little brother , currently 11 , was diagnosed with a brain tumor two years ago .
On June 6 , he celebrated two years of being @ @ @ @ @ @ @ had cake and spent time together as a family .
Whether baking with my mom or a game night or watching telenovelas , it 's amazing to have that time . ''
`` I 've been spending so much time with my parents .
Lots of bonding , lots of cooking , lots of game nights .
I did a three-week phone detox , which was amazing . ''
Her goal was to focus on herself and issues important to her instead of her phone .
In her phone-free time , she wrote @ @ @ @ @ @ @ practiced Mandarin , went on walks , gardened , cooked — and got a good night 's sleep : `` Beauty sleep is a thing , and it 's been working . ''
`` I 've really been enjoying The Politician on Netflix .
It 's about a group of young people who are running for student council in the first season and in the second season are running for state Senate .
It 's super-funny and really inclusive . ''
`` I 've been really enjoying Hasan Minhaj 's show , Patriot @ @ @ @ @ @ @ such a great person in terms of explaining everything really well .
Also , for me , seeing an Asian in comedy and seeing that representation is just so valuable .
We do n't really see a lot of Asians in media . ''
`` I feel like my answer sounds way less intelligent in comparison , but sometimes you need to take a break .
I 've been watching a lot of rom-coms and chick flicks just so I can take a mind escape from everything going on . ''
Nadia Whitehead @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Her work has appeared in Science , The Washington Post and NPR .
Find her on Twitter @ NadiaMacias .

8 Things Teen Girl Activists Want You To Know About Their Pandemic Life
Enlarge this image toggle caption Zoom screen grab by NPR Zoom screen grab by NPR
The pandemic has definitely changed things for teenage girl activists. They're worried about new problems, they're facing bad attitudes – and they're experimenting with new quarantine lifestyles, including one teen's three-week "no-phone" detox. (Spoiler alert: She survived and thrived.)
NPR spoke to 11 girl activists during the (virtual) 2020 Girl Up Leadership Summit last week. Established by the United Nations Foundation, Girl Up encourages young females to advocate for the health, safety and education of girls and women around the world.
For many of the teens, the pandemic has worsened the problems against which they are passionately fighting. But that has only made them more determined to speak up. Here's what they had to say in a joint Zoom interview. (This conversation has been edited for brevity and clarity.)
The pre-pandemic style of activism doesn't always work.
Hayat Muse, 17, Minneapolis – education equity activist
Muse is the co-founder of Kow iyo Labo, a nonprofit that has offered free tutoring and mentoring for low-income students in Minneapolis for two years. Funded mainly by donations, the group has helped more than 200 students to date. But the coronavirus shut down the free, in-person lessons, and online learning isn't an option since many of her regular students don't have access to computers or Wi-Fi, she says. "Kow iyo Labo" means "1 and 2" in Somali and stands for two things, Muse says: "Education equity begins very early on before kids are even learning their numbers, and we, as a youth-led education movement, are just getting started!" The nonprofit has put a pause on tutoring until in-person lessons can resume.
Xenophobia takes a toll.
Riya Goel, 16, West Orange, N.J. – activist against racism
Goel, whose ethnic background is Indian, says she has seen racism against Asian communities intensify during the lockdown, especially at the beginning of the pandemic when the virus was first reported in China. "A lot of my friends got hate messages, hate texts," she says. "People were saying things like 'Go back to your country' and using slurs, curse words and racial stereotypes. All these messages impacted their mental health. It makes one anxious to go into the public. It also just made us feel afraid and insecure of who we are as people."
The racial justice movement that was galvanized by George Floyd's death resonates deeply with them.
Vanessa Louis-Jean, 18, Columbia, S.C. – racial justice activist
Growing up in South Carolina, Louis-Jean has experienced racism firsthand. "A lot of people — especially in middle school — would say the N-word. I remember one time, a kid had a Confederate flag on the bus and was saying KKK slogans. I always felt like nobody really said anything." When she saw the Confederate flag removed from her statehouse in July 2015 after a white supremacist carried out a mass shooting, Louis-Jean started speaking up. "It ignited me to take that step and encourage my peers and create awareness." Now she volunteers with the Save the Children Action Network to urge elected officials to address issues critical to children's lives, including racism.
Alliyah Logan, 18, New York City – activist for safety among minority youth
Logan is an advocate for gun violence prevention and safety in vulnerable neighborhoods such as hers in the Bronx. She speaks up and writes about issues that make her and other minorities feel threatened and unsafe. "A lot of my peers have been impacted by gun violence and violence in general in our neighborhood because there's a lack of protection for Black and brown youth," she says. "With COVID-19, I saw that those same communities didn't have access to medical resources." Once the Black Lives Matter protests began, she took to the streets to protest with the New York Justice League: "I think it says a lot about our country, about America, that Black people have to put their lives on the line within a global pandemic to advocate against racism." Logan also speaks out about issues such as over-policing in schools.
They're as passionate as ever about girls' rights.
Mofi Onanuga, 16, South London, England – girls' education rights and STEM activist
Onanuga attends a predominantly Black, underprivileged school in South London. "There is such a massive gap in STEM [science, technology, engineering and mathematics]. We're told it's a man's world. We're told that that line of work isn't for women. That's not the case. Whatever a man can do, as long as I'm headstrong, I can do it as well."
Rym Badran, 17, Beirut – women in leadership activist
"I am a Muslim Arab girl living in the Middle East. There's lots of stereotypes and misconceptions about Arab women. Lots of people think we are all oppressed, and this undermines the achievements of Arab women. I want to show Arab girls that you can do something and be whoever you want. From a very young age, I was extremely interested in politics. My passion is women political leadership and women and peace building. Lebanon is considered the most progressive Arab country, but right now we only have six women in Parliament out of 128."
They worry about vulnerable communities.
Hayat Muse
"I went to 100% Black, underfunded elementary and middle schools in Minneapolis," Muse says. She got her first glimpse at the inequities that exist in education when she transferred to a better-funded high school in the suburbs. "Coming from a place where our gym, cafeteria, everything was one classroom, then going to a place where they have a gym, a cafeteria and a huge basketball court the size of my whole [former] school. My friends [from my old school] would see me going to things like speech and debate, and they would say, 'Oh, I wish our school had that.' The high school I would have [attended] had no clubs. No extracurricular activities. It was shocking."
Salomé Beyer, 17, Medellín, Colombia – gender violence activist
Since the COVID-19 lockdown began, violence against women all over the world has intensified, according to research conducted by U.N. Women. Beyer says she is particularly concerned about women in her country, where calls to the nation's domestic violence hotline reportedly have increased 150% compared with this same time last year.
They're big TikTok fans in spite of the controversy over the social media platform.
Riya Goel
"Honestly, for me it's TikTok right now. I think other platforms are a little boring. It's super informational. I see things about nonprofits, protests and social justice movements all the time. I was able to see ways to stay safe during the protest or ways to advocate if you can't make it to protests."
Nora DiMartino, 16, Kensington, Md. – mental health activist
"Personally, it's always going to be Instagram first for me. But one of my friends has been getting quite a following on TikTok sharing her opinions. You get these short videos — 15 seconds or a bit more to make a point. And it makes people really direct and bold, and that starts so many conversations. When you have a short time to talk about something, you just say the biggest point."
They're making the best of quarantine life.
Salomé Beyer
"I've actually been thriving in quarantine, and that is an indicator of my privilege — living in a house that has running water, electricity. I really do value family time a lot. My little brother, currently 11, was diagnosed with a brain tumor two years ago. On June 6, he celebrated two years of being cancer-free! We sang happy birthday, had cake and spent time together as a family. Whether baking with my mom or a game night or watching telenovelas, it's amazing to have that time."
Mofi Onanuga
"I've been spending so much time with my parents. Lots of bonding, lots of cooking, lots of game nights. I did a three-week phone detox, which was amazing." Her goal was to focus on herself and issues important to her instead of her phone. In her phone-free time, she wrote about the Black Lives Matter movement, practiced Mandarin, went on walks, gardened, cooked — and got a good night's sleep: "Beauty sleep is a thing, and it's been working."
They're TV binging!
Nora DiMartino
"I've really been enjoying The Politician on Netflix. It's about a group of young people who are running for student council in the first season and in the second season are running for state Senate. It's super-funny and really inclusive."
Riya Goel
"I've been really enjoying Hasan Minhaj's show, Patriot Act. I think that he is such a great person in terms of explaining everything really well. Also, for me, seeing an Asian in comedy and seeing that representation is just so valuable. We don't really see a lot of Asians in media."
Hayat Musef
"I feel like my answer sounds way less intelligent in comparison, but sometimes you need to take a break. I've been watching a lot of rom-coms and chick flicks just so I can take a mind escape from everything going on."
Nadia Whitehead is a freelance journalist and science writer. Her work has appeared in Science, The Washington Post and NPR. Find her on Twitter @NadiaMacias.


npr--2020-07-21--Brazil Tops 80,000 COVID-19 Deaths As 2 Government Ministers Test Positive For Virus

Two government ministers in Brazil have tested positive for the coronavirus as the country – second only to the U.S. in the number of infections – surpassed 80,000 deaths from the disease .
Citizenship Minister Onyx Lorenzoni , a close ally of President Jair Bolsonaro , and Education Minister Milton Ribeiro announced separately their diagnoses on social media .
In a tweet , Lorenzoni said he had begun feeling COVID-19 symptoms on Thursday night and had received confirmation that he was infected on Monday .
Bolsonaro himself tested positive for the coronavirus earlier this month and two other top government @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and the minister of mines and energy , Bento Albuquerque , have also been infected .
The news that COVID-19 ca n't be contained even at the top echelons of government comes as Brazil marked a grim milestone in the pandemic , with more than 80,000 now dead from the disease , according to a tally kept by Johns Hopkins University .
The country has more than 2.1 million confirmed infections .
Bolsonaro has been accused of endangering the public with his consistent efforts to downplay the virus , campaigning against COVID-19 shutdowns @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a little flu . ''
After he was diagnosed , the president promoted the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine , which he has credited with his recovery .
Despite several studies showing no efficacy and warning about the drug 's potential side effects , hydroxychloroquine has also been touted by President Trump .
In June , the U.S. Food and Drug Administration revoked an emergency authorization for the drug .
As recently as Monday , Bolsonaro tweeted his support for the drug and , over the weekend , he hailed it as an effective treatment @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Sunday he stood a few feet away from supporters at a rally in Brasilia as he held a box of the drug aloft to cheers from the crowd .
Following suit , Lorenzoni , the citizenship minister , tweeted that he too was taking a mix of drugs including chloroquine `` and I already feel the positive effects . ''

Brazil Tops 80,000 COVID-19 Deaths As 2 Government Ministers Test Positive For Virus
Enlarge this image toggle caption Evaristo Sa/AFP via Getty Images Evaristo Sa/AFP via Getty Images
Two government ministers in Brazil have tested positive for the coronavirus as the country – second only to the U.S. in the number of infections – surpassed 80,000 deaths from the disease.
Citizenship Minister Onyx Lorenzoni, a close ally of President Jair Bolsonaro, and Education Minister Milton Ribeiro announced separately their diagnoses on social media.
In a tweet, Lorenzoni said he had begun feeling COVID-19 symptoms on Thursday night and had received confirmation that he was infected on Monday.
Bom dia.
Quinta à noite comecei a sentir sintomas que poderiam ser da Covid.
6a passei por exames, entre eles o PCR e o resultado saiu hoje e o covid foi detectado.
Desde 6a estou seguindo o protocolo de azitromicina, ivermectina e cloroquina e já sinto os efeitos positivos. pic.twitter.com/r8KoXpIADH — Onyx Lorenzoni 🇧🇷 (@onyxlorenzoni) July 20, 2020
Bolsonaro himself tested positive for the coronavirus earlier this month and two other top government officials, national security adviser Augusto Heleno and the minister of mines and energy, Bento Albuquerque, have also been infected.
The news that COVID-19 can't be contained even at the top echelons of government comes as Brazil marked a grim milestone in the pandemic, with more than 80,000 now dead from the disease, according to a tally kept by Johns Hopkins University. The country has more than 2.1 million confirmed infections.
Bolsonaro has been accused of endangering the public with his consistent efforts to downplay the virus, campaigning against COVID-19 shutdowns and referring to the disease as "a little flu."
After he was diagnosed, the president promoted the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine, which he has credited with his recovery. Despite several studies showing no efficacy and warning about the drug's potential side effects, hydroxychloroquine has also been touted by President Trump. In June, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration revoked an emergency authorization for the drug.
As recently as Monday, Bolsonaro tweeted his support for the drug and, over the weekend, he hailed it as an effective treatment for COVID-19. Reuters reports that on Sunday he stood a few feet away from supporters at a rally in Brasilia as he held a box of the drug aloft to cheers from the crowd.
Following suit, Lorenzoni, the citizenship minister, tweeted that he too was taking a mix of drugs including chloroquine "and I already feel the positive effects."


npr--2020-07-21--The Disappeared Of Pakistan Have New Champions: Young Women

The Disappeared Of Pakistan Have New Champions : Young Women When Talia Khattak 's father was bundled out of his vehicle by men in plain clothes in November , she stayed quiet , fearing he 'd be harmed by his abductors if she spoke out .
Months later , his whereabouts still unknown , she realized her father , Idris , might never be released without a fight .
So in May , Khattak made videos and wrote articles about her father 's fate .
In doing so , the 20-year-old became part of a group of young women in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the fight against disappearances .
They 're able to take on this battle because even though security forces are increasingly heavy-handed , they 're less likely to harm these women than male relatives of the disappeared .
`` Our men can not come in front , '' says Sammi Baloch , 22 , whose father , Deen Mohammad , disappeared more than a decade ago from the impoverished province of Balochistan , where there is a low-level insurgency .
`` When they come in front , they will also be kidnapped by @ @ @ @ @ @ @ leading protests , speaking to media , making videos and sharing images of male relatives who have gone missing .
This is new , says Omar Waraich , South Asia director of Amnesty International .
The women are `` playing a political role that 's almost been forced upon them , '' he says , `` because they feel that unless they speak out on behalf of their fathers or their brothers , no one else will . ''
Wariach says these disappearances emerged after Pakistan joined the U.S. war on terror after @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of extremist groups around the Pakistan-Afghanistan border .
Now , `` this is something that has reached deep into Pakistan 's heartlands , '' he says .
`` No community has been spared in recent years . ''
Agencies of Pakistan 's most powerful institution – the army – are believed to be behind many of the disappearances , Wariach says .
Those taken appear to be overwhelmingly men and include critics of the military , human rights activists , those who documented disappearances , supporters of ethnic movements in Pakistan 's provinces @ @ @ @ @ @ @ simply calling for more provincial powers .
more powers in Pakistan 's provinces .
In 2011 , Pakistan created a judicial commission to investigate disappearances , beginning with 136 cases .
Nine years on , they have investigated over 6,500 incidents , and in December , the commission said 2,400 people remained unaccounted for .
Those figures are likely an undercount , said Zohra Yusuf , a prominent human rights activist , because many families of disappeared persons do not trust the commission – so they do n't report the cases .
The @ @ @ @ @ @ @ protested against the many disappearances approved a draft law in 2018 , criminalizing the practice , but it has languished .
Wariach says that 's because Pakistan 's most powerful institution , the military , is behind many of the disappearances .
`` True power lies with the armed forces – and they do not want to see accountability for armed forces . ''
Khattak 's father was affiliated with a small political party .
He 'd done research for Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International in Pakistan and Afghanistan .
But Khattak @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sort of work for years , and she was not aware of any threats to him .
In November , when Khattak told her father she was going by train across Pakistan for a conference , he was worried about her because weeks before , a railway fire killed dozens of people .
`` He 's a very protective parent , '' says Khattak .
Her father raised his two daughters since they were children – after he and their mother divorced and she returned to her native Russia .
`` He was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the cleaning , everything . ''
Her father promised to call every hour during her day-long train trip but only called once .
`` He sounded strange and hurried and said he 'd lost his charger . ''
A few days later , a friend sent her a text : `` The first sentence was I am sorry your father was abducted , '' she recalled .
`` I thought it was a joke . ''
It was n't .
It emerged that Khattak 's extended family were hiding the news , hoping @ @ @ @ @ @ @ out .
Khattak says her family also urged her to stay quiet , while a lawyer filed a habeas corpus petition in the local high court , demanding to know where her father was held .
`` We should n't even talk about it , think about it , '' she recalled being told .
But in court , representatives of government security agencies denied they had her father , according to rights group Front Line Defenders .
Then the pandemic hit .
Khattak 's college shut down and she returned to her @ @ @ @ @ @ @ her father .
`` That 's when I actually realized there was no home to come back to , '' Khattak says .
She decided to defy her extended family and speak out , hoping that might shake her father 's abductors into freeing him .
The risk that they would hurt him , she decided , had to be taken .
In May , soft-spoken Khattak recorded a video in Urdu , explaining her father was abducted .
Amnesty International helped her make another video for Father 's Day .
`` This @ @ @ @ @ @ @ know if my father is alive .
I do n't know if he has food today , '' she recounted .
Amnesty helped her pen an editorial published in the British newspaper , the Independent .
Her activism prompted U.N. human rights experts to tell the Pakistani government in an open letter that they were `` appalled '' by her father 's disappearance .
Other young women are also speaking out , like Baloch , the 22-year-old student , who has led hunger strikes , written editorials and recently led a protest dominated @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Mehrang Baloch , Hasiba Qambrani and Seema Baloch speak to the media about their missing loved ones .
It seems the women are making a difference .
In June , a party from Balochistan , where the disappearances are most frequent , exited from the ruling coalition , saying the government had n't done enough to resolve the issue .
`` People want this , need this , to be addressed , '' said Sana Ullah Baloch , a senator with the Balochistan National Party .
But women like Baloch says the real @ @ @ @ @ @ @ or knowing his fate .
She fears he was killed .
`` If you have killed my father , then tell us where he is buried , '' she longs to tell her father 's abductors .
`` So we will go there and we will satisfy ourselves that our father is no more . ''
Khattak has had more luck .
Seven months after her father disappeared , military intelligence officials said he was in their custody , accused of violating the country 's official secrets act .
That does n't mean @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at all .
But Khattak hopes against hope .
`` Whenever there 's a knock on the gate , '' she says , `` I think maybe it will be my father coming back home . ''

The Disappeared Of Pakistan Have New Champions: Young Women
Enlarge this image toggle caption Mahnoor Khan Mahnoor Khan
When Talia Khattak's father was bundled out of his vehicle by men in plain clothes in November, she stayed quiet, fearing he'd be harmed by his abductors if she spoke out. Months later, his whereabouts still unknown, she realized her father, Idris, might never be released without a fight.
Enlarge this image toggle caption Sheikh Nouman Sheikh Nouman
So in May, Khattak made videos and wrote articles about her father's fate. In doing so, the 20-year-old became part of a group of young women in Pakistan who have emerged at the forefront of the fight against disappearances. They're able to take on this battle because even though security forces are increasingly heavy-handed, they're less likely to harm these women than male relatives of the disappeared.
"Our men cannot come in front," says Sammi Baloch, 22, whose father, Deen Mohammad, disappeared more than a decade ago from the impoverished province of Balochistan, where there is a low-level insurgency. "When they come in front, they will also be kidnapped by the state."
The women are leading protests, speaking to media, making videos and sharing images of male relatives who have gone missing. This is new, says Omar Waraich, South Asia director of Amnesty International. The women are "playing a political role that's almost been forced upon them," he says, "because they feel that unless they speak out on behalf of their fathers or their brothers, no one else will."
Waraich says these disappearances emerged after Pakistan joined the U.S. war on terror after 9/11. It began with suspected members of extremist groups around the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. Now, "this is something that has reached deep into Pakistan's heartlands," he says. "No community has been spared in recent years." Agencies of Pakistan's most powerful institution – the army – are believed to be behind many of the disappearances, Waraich says. Those taken appear to be overwhelmingly men and include critics of the military, human rights activists, those who documented disappearances, supporters of ethnic movements in Pakistan's provinces – whether outright separatist movements and those simply calling for more provincial powers.
In 2011, Pakistan created a judicial commission to investigate disappearances, beginning with 136 cases. Nine years on, they have investigated over 6,500 incidents, and in December, the commission said 2,400 people remained unaccounted for. Those figures are likely an undercount, said Zohra Yusuf, a prominent human rights activist, because many families of disappeared persons do not trust the commission – so they don't report the cases.
The prime minister Imran Khan, who once protested against the many disappearances approved a draft law in 2018, criminalizing the practice, but it has languished. Waraich says that's because Pakistan's most powerful institution, the military, is behind many of the disappearances. "True power lies with the armed forces – and they do not want to see accountability for armed forces."
Khattak's father was affiliated with a small political party. He'd done research for Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International in Pakistan and Afghanistan. But Khattak said her father hadn't done that sort of work for years, and she was not aware of any threats to him.
In November, when Khattak told her father she was going by train across Pakistan for a conference, he was worried about her because weeks before, a railway fire killed dozens of people.
"He's a very protective parent," says Khattak. Her father raised his two daughters since they were children – after he and their mother divorced and she returned to her native Russia. "He was doing almost everything: the cooking, the cleaning, everything."
Her father promised to call every hour during her day-long train trip but only called once. "He sounded strange and hurried and said he'd lost his charger." A few days later, a friend sent her a text: "The first sentence was I am sorry your father was abducted," she recalled. "I thought it was a joke."
It wasn't. It emerged that Khattak's extended family were hiding the news, hoping he'd be released before she found out. Khattak says her family also urged her to stay quiet, while a lawyer filed a habeas corpus petition in the local high court, demanding to know where her father was held. "We shouldn't even talk about it, think about it," she recalled being told.
But in court, representatives of government security agencies denied they had her father, according to rights group Front Line Defenders. Then the pandemic hit. Khattak's college shut down and she returned to her childhood home. It was empty without her father. "That's when I actually realized there was no home to come back to," Khattak says.
She decided to defy her extended family and speak out, hoping that might shake her father's abductors into freeing him. The risk that they would hurt him, she decided, had to be taken.
In May, soft-spoken Khattak recorded a video in Urdu, explaining her father was abducted. Amnesty International helped her make another video for Father's Day. "This Father's Day, I don't know if my father is alive. I don't know if he has food today," she recounted.
Amnesty helped her pen an editorial published in the British newspaper, the Independent. Her activism prompted U.N. human rights experts to tell the Pakistani government in an open letter that they were "appalled" by her father's disappearance.
Other young women are also speaking out, like Baloch, the 22-year-old student, who has led hunger strikes, written editorials and recently led a protest dominated by young women. Other women like Mehrang Baloch, Hasiba Qambrani and Seema Baloch speak to the media about their missing loved ones.
It seems the women are making a difference. In June, a party from Balochistan, where the disappearances are most frequent, exited from the ruling coalition, saying the government hadn't done enough to resolve the issue. "People want this, need this, to be addressed," said Sana Ullah Baloch, a senator with the Balochistan National Party.
But women like Baloch says the real impact will be seeing her father, or knowing his fate. She fears he was killed. "If you have killed my father, then tell us where he is buried," she longs to tell her father's abductors. "So we will go there and we will satisfy ourselves that our father is no more."
Khattak has had more luck. Seven months after her father disappeared, military intelligence officials said he was in their custody, accused of violating the country's official secrets act. That doesn't mean he'll be released soon – or at all. But Khattak hopes against hope. "Whenever there's a knock on the gate," she says, "I think maybe it will be my father coming back home."


npr--2020-07-21--EU Agrees To $858 Billion In Grants, Loans To Bail Out Pandemic-Battered Economies

EU Agrees To $ 858 Billion In Grants , Loans To Bail Out Pandemic-Battered Economies European Union leaders emerged from five days of intense talks with a landmark 750 billion euro ( $ 858 billion ) plan to rescue the bloc 's economies from the massive , ongoing assault of the COVID-19 pandemic .
Exhausted heads of state and government finally voted unanimously in Brussels early Tuesday to jointly issue debt to be disbursed through grants and loans to member nations as they face their worst economic downturn since the Great Depression .
German Chancellor Angela Merkel hailed the agreement @ @ @ @ @ @ @ historic . ''
She and French President Emmanuel Macron had spearheaded the effort to push the deal through .
Negotiations over the package had pitted some of the EU 's strongest economies – including the Netherlands , Sweden , Denmark and Austria — against the grouping 's poorer states , such as Spain and Italy .
At issue was how the burden would be shared and under what conditions the money would be disbursed .
Most notably , the wealthier nations had sought to ensure that the rescue package be made up mostly @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sum will be split between 360 billion euros ( $ 412 billion ) in loans and 390 billion euros ( $ 446 billion ) in grants that would not need to be repaid .
The money will be raised collectively by selling bonds .
In the five days of talks in the Belgian capital , governments debated not only the terms of the recovery package but also a seven-year EU budget worth about 1.1 trillion euros ( $ 1.26 trillion ) .
In a news conference European Commission President Charles Michel called the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Europe and said it shows the bloc 's solidarity at a historically trying time .
`` This agreement sends a concrete signal that Europe is a force for action , '' Michel said .
Fear of failure was apparently strong enough to keep the negotiations – originally scheduled to last just two days – on track for what turned out to be a marathon session .
A failed summit amid the ongoing coronavirus crisis , many feared , would have thrown the EU 's future as an effective bloc into doubt .
News @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a four-month high of $ 1.1470 .
Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte , seen as a key obstacle to a deal , acknowledged `` a few clashes , '' during the talks , but said `` that 's all part of the game . ''
Merkel said that Europe `` has shown it is able to break new ground in a special situation . ''
`` Exceptional situations require exceptional measures , '' she said at the news conference .
NPR 's Rob Schmitz in Berlin contributed to this report .

EU Agrees To $858 Billion In Grants, Loans To Bail Out Pandemic-Battered Economies
Enlarge this image toggle caption John Thys/AFP via Getty Images John Thys/AFP via Getty Images
European Union leaders emerged from five days of intense talks with a landmark 750 billion euro ($858 billion) plan to rescue the bloc's economies amid the ongoing assault of the COVID-19 pandemic.
Exhausted heads of state and government finally voted unanimously in Brussels early Tuesday to jointly issue debt to be disbursed through grants and loans to member nations as they face their worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel hailed the agreement by the 27-member group as "truly historic." She and French President Emmanuel Macron spearheaded the effort to push the deal through.
Negotiations over the package pitted some of the EU's strongest economies – including the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark and Austria — against the grouping's poorer states, such as Spain and Italy. At issue was how the burden would be shared and under what conditions the money would be disbursed.
Most notably, the wealthier nations had sought to ensure that the rescue package be made up mostly of loans. Instead, the huge sum will be split between 360 billion euros ($412 billion) in loans and 390 billion euros ($446 billion) in grants that would not need to be repaid. The money will be raised collectively by selling bonds.
In the five days of talks in the Belgian capital, governments debated not only the terms of the recovery package, but also a seven-year EU budget worth about 1.1 trillion euros ($1.26 trillion).
In a news conference, European Commission President Charles Michel called the agreement a "pivotal moment" for Europe and said it shows the bloc's solidarity at a historically trying time.
"This agreement sends a concrete signal that Europe is a force for action," Michel said.
We did it! We have reached a deal on the recovery package and the European budget for 2021-2027.
This is a strong deal. And most importantly, the right deal for Europe right now. #EUCO pic.twitter.com/c6fQ5ppwpf — Charles Michel (@eucopresident) July 21, 2020
Fear of failure was apparently strong enough to keep the negotiations – originally scheduled to last just two days – on track for what turned out to be a marathon session. A failed summit amid the ongoing coronavirus crisis, many feared, would have thrown the EU's future as an effective bloc into doubt.
News of the deal pushed the euro to a four-month high of $1.1470.
Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte, seen as a key obstacle to a deal, acknowledged "a few clashes" during the talks but said "that's all part of the game."
Merkel said Europe "has shown it is able to break new ground in a special situation."
"Exceptional situations require exceptional measures," she said at the news conference.
NPR's Rob Schmitz in Berlin contributed to this report.


npr--2020-07-21--When Can Kids Go Back To School? Leaders Say 'As Soon As It's Safe'

When Can Kids Go Back To School ?
Leaders Say 'As Soon As It 's Safe' Ann Levett 's worst day as superintendent of Savannah-Chatham County Public School System was n't March 26 , the day Georgia 's governor first closed schools , keeping Levett 's more than 37,000 students home in response to the coronavirus pandemic .
Her worst day came just a couple of weeks ago , Levett says , when she realized the infection numbers around Savannah were so high that she was n't going to be able to reopen schools .
Levett had hoped to welcome @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on schedule , but says she ca n't do that safely while COVID-19 continues to spread in Georgia — and many nearby states .
Every day , Levett wakes up and checks the numbers .
`` And I 'm like , 'Please , please let them go down .
Please let them go down .
And they 're not going down . '
`` As President Trump criticized school leaders for not reopening fully or quickly , NPR reached out to superintendents across the country , to hear their side of the reopening @ @ @ @ @ @ @ York , Texas to Ohio , they were consistent : School leaders say they are determined to open school safely , and feel dismayed by the Trump administration 's efforts to politicize and rush decisions that could have life-or-death consequences in their communities .
`` Anyone out there who 's questioning whether or not educators are at home and not doing the work that our young people need us to be doing , you 're wrong , '' says Luvelle Brown , head of the Ithaca City School District in New York .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
And we ca n't wait to get these babies back in our spaces . ''
While superintendents may not share President Trump 's view of the science of reopening , they do share his sense of urgency .
`` It is better to have kids back in school every day , '' says Paul Imhoff , the superintendent of Upper Arlington Schools , near Columbus Ohio .
`` All of us want that .
All of us are anxious for that . ''
`` As soon as it 's safe . ''
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ with the president , who insists that science supports schools reopening fully this fall .
Does it ?
Yes .
And no .
`` Returning to school is important for the healthy development and well-being of children , '' according to the American Academy of Pediatrics , especially the most vulnerable — those with disabilities , children who are homeless , or the millions of kids who are food-insecure .
And that 's not reckoning with the academic toll this pandemic has already taken on an entire generation .
The science is clear @ @ @ @ @ @ @ better off in school .
But these are not normal circumstances .
COVID-19 is sweeping across the American South and West like wildfire , with many children living in areas now experiencing substantial community spread of the disease .
While reopening in parts of Montana may be relatively safe , it 's difficult to say the same for Florida or much of Texas .
`` Sometimes parents forgive us if we commit educational malpractice .
They will never forgive us if we let something happen to their children , '' says Michael Hinojosa @ @ @ @ @ @ @ District .
Infection rates have been soaring in his county .
As my colleague , Allison Aubrey , from NPR 's science team , has reported , the research on kids and COVID-19 is new and incomplete .
Recent data suggest that children , in general , do not get seriously sick from the disease , but it 's less clear what role they play in spreading it to each other or to teachers and staff who would be asked to spend hours indoors with them .
In fact , new research out @ @ @ @ @ @ @ than 10 do spread the disease , much more often than kids 0 to 9 .
Until recently , Hinojosa was preparing to reopen schools to any student who wanted to return .
`` We think we can have a pretty safe learning environment , but we 're going to have masks .
We 're going to have face shields .
We 're going to have plexiglass in the classroom . ''
But now , with infections rising , Hinojosa wants to delay the start of school .
At this point , even @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 's not sure who would show up .
In response to recent district surveys , roughly half of parents and staff who responded said they were not comfortable returning yet .
The Texas Education Agency announced Friday that it would soften an earlier requirement that schools quickly re-open for in-person learning .
The new policy allows schools to function remotely for the first four weeks of the school year and for a subsequent four weeks if approved by a local school board .
`` We 'll use every one of our spaces '' @ @ @ @ @ @ @ relatively low , Luvelle Brown says he 's still trying to make sure he can keep students socially distant when they return to school buildings .
One option is to bring students back in rotations , for just a few days each week — similar to New York City 's reopening plan .
But reducing the number of students in a classroom means finding new classroom space elsewhere .
`` We 'll use every one of our spaces .
We hope to be able to get outside and use those spaces as well @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we can get all of our young people in school at the same time , '' Brown says .
Transportation may be even harder , Brown says .
Instead of seating 50 children , a socially-distanced bus can now handle 12 to 15 .
`` There are no extra buses floating around .
And more importantly , there are no extra drivers floating around in my community . ''
There 's also a deeper question , more emotional than logistical , about what affect all of these social distancing measures will have on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ been traumatized by so much time away from vital school-based adults and support systems .
`` I struggle with some of those guidelines because they have our schools turn into more like correctional centers in the ways in which we are lining up and staying apart from one another .
And it 's not consistent with the kind of culture and community that we 've built over time , '' says Brown .
Chad Gestson , the head of the Phoenix Union High School District , says this pandemic is forcing educators to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ so much time studying respiratory droplets and measuring classrooms and how many kids fit on a bus and how to transition thousands of kids between periods that we lost track of the core of our work , '' Gestson says .
That core is teaching and learning .
So , with infection rates skyrocketing across Arizona too , Gestson recently announced that , for now , all of his students will keep learning remotely when school resumes .
That way , he says , he and his staff can now refocus on educating @ @ @ @ @ @ @ normal ?
In some communities , where infection rates are low ( or non-existent ) , the answer is : Soon .
Classrooms may look and feel a little different , but schools will open right on time .
Parents will return to work .
Life as a facsimile of normal .
But educators and health experts say that wo n't , and probably should n't happen in the many school districts still grappling with the coronavirus .
In Ithaca , where a proposed plan is for students to return to school in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , Superintendent Luvelle Brown does not hesitate when asked what it will take for his schools to open fully .
He answers with one word :

When Can Kids Go Back To School? Leaders Say 'As Soon As It's Safe'
Enlarge this image Kim Ryu for NPR Kim Ryu for NPR
Ann Levett's worst day as superintendent of Savannah-Chatham County Public School System wasn't March 26, the day Georgia's governor first closed schools, keeping Levett's more than 37,000 students home in response to the coronavirus pandemic.
Her worst day came just a couple of weeks ago, Levett says, when she realized the infection numbers around Savannah were so high that she wasn't going to be able to reopen schools.
Levett had hoped to welcome students back on Aug. 5, right on schedule, but says she can't do that safely while COVID-19 continues to spread in Georgia — and many nearby states. Every day, Levett says, she wakes up and checks the numbers "and I'm like, 'Please, please let them go down. Please let them go down. And they're not going down.' "
As President Trump criticized school leaders for not reopening fully or quickly, NPR reached out to superintendents across the country to hear their side of the reopening story. From Georgia to New York, Texas to Ohio, they were consistent: School leaders say they are determined to open school safely and feel dismayed by the Trump administration's efforts to politicize and rush decisions that could have life-or-death consequences in their communities.
"Anyone out there who's questioning whether or not educators are at home and not doing the work that our young people need us to be doing, you're wrong," says Luvelle Brown, head of the Ithaca City School District in New York. "We're working even more now. And we can't wait to get these babies back in our spaces."
While superintendents may not share President Trump's view of the science of reopening, they do share his sense of urgency.
"It is better to have kids back in school every day," says Paul Imhoff, the superintendent of Upper Arlington Schools, near Columbus, Ohio. "All of us want that. All of us are anxious for that."
But then Imhoff pauses.
"As soon as it's safe."
What is safe?
This is where many superintendents part ways with the president, who insists that science supports schools reopening fully this fall. Does it?
Yes. And no.
"Returning to school is important for the healthy development and well-being of children," according to the American Academy of Pediatrics, especially the most vulnerable — those with disabilities, children who are homeless, or the millions of kids who are food-insecure. And that's not reckoning with the academic toll this pandemic has already taken on an entire generation.
The science is clear: In normal circumstances, children are better off in school.
But these are not normal circumstances. COVID-19 is sweeping across the American South and West like wildfire, with many children living in areas now experiencing substantial community spread of the disease. While reopening in parts of Montana may be relatively safe, it's difficult to say the same for Florida or much of Texas.
"Sometimes parents forgive us if we commit educational malpractice. They will never forgive us if we let something happen to their children," says Michael Hinojosa, who runs the Dallas Independent School District. Infection rates have been soaring in his county.
As Allison Aubrey from NPR's science team has reported, the research on kids and COVID-19 is new and incomplete. Recent data suggest that children, in general, do not get seriously sick from the disease, but it's less clear what role they play in spreading it to each other or to teachers and staff who would be asked to spend hours indoors with them. In fact, new research out of South Korea found that children older than 10 do spread the disease, much more often than kids age 9 and younger.
Until recently, Hinojosa was preparing to reopen schools to any student who wanted to return. "We think we can have a pretty safe learning environment, but we're going to have masks. We're going to have face shields. We're going to have plexiglass in the classroom."
But now, with infections rising, Hinojosa wants to delay the start of school. At this point, even if he could fully reopen, he's not sure who would show up. In response to recent district surveys, roughly half of parents and staff who responded said they were not comfortable returning yet.
The Texas Education Agency announced Friday that it would soften an earlier requirement that schools quickly reopen for in-person learning. The new policy allows schools to function remotely for the first four weeks of the school year and for a subsequent four weeks if approved by a local school board.
"We'll use every one of our spaces"
In Ithaca, where infection rates are relatively low, Brown says he's still trying to make sure he can keep students socially distant when they return to school buildings. One option is to bring students back in rotations, for just a few days each week — similar to New York City's reopening plan. But reducing the number of students in a classroom means finding new classroom space elsewhere.
"We'll use every one of our spaces. We hope to be able to get outside and use those spaces as well. But I still don't think we can get all of our young people in school at the same time," Brown says.
Transportation may be even harder, Brown says. Instead of seating 50 children, a socially distanced bus can now handle 12 to 15. "There are no extra buses floating around. And more importantly, there are no extra drivers floating around in my community."
There's also a deeper question, more emotional than logistical, about what effect all these social distancing measures will have on students, especially those who have already been traumatized by so much time away from vital school-based adults and support systems.
"I struggle with some of those guidelines because they have our schools turn into more like correctional centers in the ways in which we are lining up and staying apart from one another. And it's not consistent with the kind of culture and community that we've built over time," says Brown.
"Vaccine"
Chad Gestson, the head of the Phoenix Union High School District, says this pandemic is forcing educators to become epidemiologists.
"We were spending so much time studying respiratory droplets and measuring classrooms and how many kids fit on a bus and how to transition thousands of kids between periods that we lost track of the core of our work," Gestson says.
That core is teaching and learning. So, with infection rates skyrocketing across Arizona, Gestson recently announced that, for now, all of his students will keep learning remotely when school resumes. That way, he says, he and his staff can now refocus on educating kids.
When will everything return to normal?
In some communities, where infection rates are low (or nonexistent), the answer is: soon. Classrooms may look and feel a little different, but schools will open right on time. Parents will return to work. Life as a facsimile of normal.
But educators and health experts say that won't — and probably shouldn't — happen in the many school districts still grappling with the coronavirus.
In Ithaca, where a proposed plan is for students to return to school in rotations, a few days a week, Superintendent Brown does not hesitate when asked what it will take for his schools to open fully. He answers with one word: "Vaccine."