npr--2020-06-22--Remembering Front-Line Workers Lost To COVID-19

It has been five months since the novel coronavirus started infecting Americans .
Since then , the U.S. has lost more than 119,000 people to the sickness it causes — COVID-19 .
So many have been touched by the deaths of family and friends .
Here we remember just a few of those who continued working during the pandemic because their jobs called for it and who , ultimately , lost their lives .
`` I think that he just thought : 'Work as usual .
There are a lot of sick people and that 's even more of a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ `` his daughter Morit Segui , a resident physician and OB-GYN in the Bronx , says of her father .
Yves-Emmanuel Segui had been a pharmacist in Ivory Coast for more than 10 years when political unrest forced the family to leave in 2004 .
The family immigrated to the U.S. for what he said were `` better opportunities . ''
But Segui had a hard time getting his pharmacy license in the United States .
There was a language barrier — he spoke French — and the skills for pharmacists in Ivory @ @ @ @ @ @ @ being a nurse .
Morit says her father took the pharmacy licensing test eight times .
He never gave up — and finally passed .
Segui got a job at a community pharmacy on the border of Yonkers and the Bronx about two years ago , but he continued to make ends meet as a parking garage attendant in Newark , N.J .
He died on April 6 of COVID-19 .
`` I have so many good memories of growing up in the Ivory Coast with my dad .
Going to get ice @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Taking trips through the country with him .
I love driving because of that — he taught me how to drive , '' Morit says .
And she fondly recalls him staying up late with her at night after they moved to the U.S. , helping her translate her homework ( the main language in Ivory Coast is French ) so she could get through it .
`` When I was going through his things , I found the same dictionary we used to translate every word , '' she says .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ is meeting him at the halfway point on his two-hour commute .
`` Finally , it was time for his dream to be realized .
No one expected him to die so soon after working so hard , '' she says .
`` It 's good to be a police officer because you are helping people .
You save people and it 's scary , but you are saving people , '' says his 7-year-old daughter , Bianca .
`` He had promised the girls some trips over the summer .
And our @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and that 's a big deal , especially for a father and for his daughter .
And I know he was working a lot for that as well , '' says Grisel Pineda , Diaz Ayala 's former wife and the mother of his girls , referring to the coming-of-age celebration for Latinas .
Sgt .
Jose Diaz Ayala was an officer in the Palm Beach County Sheriff 's Office in Florida .
He died on April 4 at age 38 of complications due to COVID-19 .
He left behind three daughters , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ They and their mom remember Diaz Ayala as someone who could always make them laugh .
`` I get my catchphrases from him , '' says daughter Gianna , 10 .
`` This is an A/B conversation so C your way out of it ! ''
Diaz Ayala 's 7-year-old daughter , Bianca , says her dad took her on adventures , such as going on rides at the carnival .
`` I think he rode the scary one with me .
I think because I was scared .
I think I sat @ @ @ @ @ @ @ next to him .
I always held his hand with two hands because his hand 's really big . ''
Pineda was divorced from Diaz Ayala but says the two remained friends .
`` He was extremely protective of the girls , like when it came to boys . ''
One time , Diaz Ayala found out that his eldest daughter , Laylanny , had been sharing gummy bears with a boy at school .
`` And he 's like , 'No , no , no , no .
You only share your @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 's it !
No more gummy bears for the rest of the school year ! '
`` Pineda recalls .
Pineda says that after the pandemic got worse , Diaz Ayala was working overtime at the sheriff 's office — despite the risks — for some extra spending money .
His daughters lost their provider , their protector .
But more than that , says 14-year-old Laylanny , they lost their best friend .
`` He was young at heart .
The way he talked to you , he just talked to you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ him .
Like you were , like , equal , '' she says .
`` She worked her entire life .
She worked three jobs most of the time .
She loved her family , '' daughter Amanda Williams says of her mother .
`` Mother was the absolute definition of self-sacrifice .
Pure love , selflessness .
She was a natural giver . ''
Rose Harrison worked nursing jobs and owned a barbecue restaurant with her husband .
She was mother to three , and in another prize role , she was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for her patients at two nursing homes in Alabama during her career until she died of COVID-19 on April 6 .
She was 60 .
`` Mother went to nursing school , later in her 20s when the textile plant she worked at closed down .
As unfortunate as it was at the time , it was actually a blessing , '' Williams says .
`` She was able to enter the nursing profession , which was definitely her calling . ''
Williams adds that her mother was a motivator for her .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ it is , she was able to push through it with , you know , us three children .
And I use that as my inspiration 'cause I was a single mom when I went through nursing school , and I had three small children .
And so I thought , 'If she could do it , I can do it . '
`` Harrison had been a nurse for 30 years .
`` I think she just , she did n't consider herself first ; she always put others before herself , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ worried about the other residents than herself , '' Williams says .
She fondly remembers her mother playing , laughing and dancing with her grandchildren .
`` She was just a sassy , sassy woman from Alabama that would speak her mind , '' Williams recalls .
Harrison loved Alabama football and country foods — she was best known for her banana pudding and strawberry shortcake .
`` Her family was her everything .
She was the foundation of our family .
She was who everyone turned to for comfort . ''
Mason @ @ @ @ @ @ @ City '' I want to make sure that his light lives on , you know ; he was taken from us in such a dark way .
I want to make sure people remember him , '' says Bertolotti 's sister , Monique .
Gianmarco Bertolotti was always creative , his sister says .
He loved going to concerts and making art — and that same creativity helped him become a mason at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City .
Bertolotti kept going to work until he was hospitalized himself on April @ @ @ @ @ @ @ both lungs .
He died on April 22 after contracting COVID-19 while continuing to work .
Bertolotti loved New Orleans — its culture and music — which he discovered by accident and shared with Monique .
`` My brother was like an explorer in life , you know , and then he explored without restriction , '' Monique says .
She says he went to New Orleans on a cross-country trip for his first time with friends .
`` My brother was drawn to the same things I was drawn to .
He @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people .
He loved like the freedom of expression down there . ''
In remembering Bertolotti , members of his family say they want to be more like him — to find more ways to enjoy life .
`` My uncle wants to approach life more gently and not to sweat the small stuff .
I would like to explore life without restriction , like my brother did , '' Monique says .
`` I would love for my dad to do the same thing .
My dad is very old school and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ loss is tremendous for him .
My brother was his best friend . ''
`` Everything was about my mom and him .
Valentine 's Day , Women 's Day , Mother 's Day , her birthday .
He surprised her every time — he would come with roses or anything just to , like , make her feel better .
He just had that kind of heart , '' Katerina Veleska says of her father .
Zlatko Veleski — known as Goldy to his friends — was a family man and a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was a maintenance worker in the twin towers during the Sept. 11 attacks — and escaped .
Veleski was active in his labor union , voicing concerns about the health and safety of his co-workers during the pandemic .
He worked until March 30 and then tested positive for the coronavirus .
He died on April 8 at age 53 .
Veleski 's daughter , Katerina , 26 , says her parents shared a strong bond .
They met in Macedonia , where her father grew up , when her mother was on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ married , he came to America with his new wife .
`` My mom went over there for vacation , and they met each other , dated for 10 days , and she just knew that he was the one , '' the daughter says .
Her mom was 19 at the time .
`` They were inseparable .
Anything that my dad did was with her .
He , anything that he did , was for her . ''
Katerina recalls the 50th birthday party they threw for her dad at their @ @ @ @ @ @ @ there — which are his two granddaughters — and they put cake on his face , which at anybody 's birthday he is the first one to put cake on their face .
Everybody saw my mom next to him so they took that as an opportunity to just scream , 'Kiss . '
... We were just mesmerized by how much love they still have after all those years . ''
Veleski died two days before the couple 's 32nd anniversary .
`` She feels like she basically lost her best friend @ @ @ @ @ @ @ by day .
It 's a day without him , '' Katerina says of her mother .
`` He was a good guy , a great father and the greatest soul mate , you know , a very hard worker ... and a good chef , '' Micaela Scott says of her fiancé .
Devin Dale Francis was a front-line worker twice over .
The hospital radiology technician also had a job with an airline .
He was months away from getting married when he died of COVID-19 on April 8 .
Francis @ @ @ @ @ @ @ friends when he was younger .
And he loved to cook .
He was smart , liked to crack jokes and was `` quick-witted , '' Scott says .
`` He would put a smile on your face .
...
Nothing really got to him . ''
Their daughter , Dekayla , turned 11 in May .
`` He was very shy .
But if you knew him , you 'd never really see him mad , '' Scott says .
She fondly recalls when they got engaged : '' When he proposed @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to me 'cause when we first met , we met around Christmas .
I wanted a perfume .
...
So when I opened it , I was so happy .
Like , oh , my God , he got me — so I 'm thinking that 's all I got .
I was excited about just that .
We went to my parents ' house .
Later on that day , he proposed to me . ''
`` For me , he was just a genuine support all the time .
Like it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ no matter what , for us — so for me , '' Angie Monroe says of her stepfather .
`` He was kind of like a good luck token that you knew you always had in your pocket . ''
Esequiel `` Zeke '' Cisneros was a nurse working with psychiatric patients at Eastern State Hospital in Medical Lake , Wash .
He contracted COVID-19 and died on April 13 , two days before his 25th wedding anniversary .
`` He had apparently picked out a couple [ of ] rings for my @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he picked out a 25th-anniversary ring .
...
So we ... had to go get those .
And that was a really hard thing to do , '' Monroe says .
Cisneros had been a nurse for 20 years , working alongside his wife , Brenda , also a nurse at the hospital .
`` It was clear that he cared about people .
You have to be a nurse .
I think it was clear that he cared about us , too , '' she says .
`` Every time that anything @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , lives are stressful , or anytime that we needed anything .
He was always there for us . ''
Cisneros loved reading – on topics such as history and economics – and wrote fiction .
`` It was kind of calming to talk to him .
One thing for sure , with Zeke , is that if you started talking to him , you knew you were gon na be there for several hours .
It was n't , like , a short conversation , '' Monroe says .
And , she @ @ @ @ @ @ @ — and would tell her lots of jokes .
`` I know for a fact that he just loved my mom dearly , like , he was the epitome of a gentleman .
He was the type of guy that would open the door for her .
...
He would buy her roses , flowers like every day and every week , '' she says .
The couple had matching dogs – his was Ricky and hers was Lucy — named for the characters in the classic TV sitcom `` I Love Lucy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ way through undergrad and grad school as a single mom , and I would n't have made it without him , '' Monroe says .
`` He had that confidence , confidence in you , that you did n't have .
There was never any doubt in my ability .
He told me , 'You 're amazing , you know , you can do it . '
And I knew he did that for a lot of people . ''
`` He loved the church .
He loved his job , '' Ana @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 42 years .
`` He wanted always to help people .
That 's one other thing , is that if anybody needed help , he would tell them , you know , ' I 'm here .
If you need me , I can help you . '
`` Erlin Galarza drove New York City buses .
He was a Metropolitan Transportation Authority bus driver , and he contracted the coronavirus while he was working — months before a planned retirement .
He always liked hearing the stories of people traveling alone on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ church choirs .
Music enchanted him even as a boy in Ecuador .
He just wanted to sing .
`` When he was about 10 , there was a big choir , and he went one night when they were rehearsing .
And then the director came , and she said , 'No , you 're too young .
You can not come in here . '
And he sat at the door for hours until they were done .
And when he came to the United States , the first church that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ got so excited , and he joined the choir until his death .
So he was born with the music in his soul , I think . ''
Ana Maria says she misses how her husband would call her from work just to check in .
Sometimes she still looks out for him in the lobby of their building .
`` He would tell me what time he was going to come , and I 'd get to greet him at the door every afternoon or every night .
Sometimes I forget , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ When you spend most of your life with a person and then this person is gone so quickly , it 's hard . ''
`` My dad was the type of person to always make everyone laugh .
If you were ever having a bad day or needed someone to talk to , my dad would always be there .
No matter how you met my dad , once you meet him , you will instantly love him .
...
He was just a genuine person , and he loved everyone , '' @ @ @ @ @ @ @ her dad .
Jeffrey Baumbach was a nurse in Stockton , Calif .
He died of COVID-19 at age 57 on March 31 .
`` The main reason he became a nurse in the end was because he wanted to help people , '' Kaila says .
`` All he ever wanted to do was help everyone . ''
Kaila says she was always amazed by how her dad remembered everyone he met .
When she questioned him about it , he told her it 's not the face or name that 's @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Baumbach would jokingly make up answers to questions when he did n't know the real one .
The family would call them `` Jeffisms . ''
Kaila recalls : `` He would just smirk at you and tell you what he thought was the answer .
And it was usually always wrong , but it would make us laugh . ''
One of her favorite memories of her dad is of taking him with her to get tattoos when she graduated from high school .
`` I was really scared to go alone @ @ @ @ @ @ @ time her acceptance to a California college she wanted to attend was withdrawn .
She was devastated .
Her dad picked her up and drove her to the college and demanded to know what happened .
They figured it out — and she was accepted .
Baumbach and his wife , Karen , were married for 33 years .
`` It was the ideal marriage .
When I eventually get married , that 's exactly how I want my marriage to be .
It was full of love , '' Kaila says .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ they loved each other just by doing the little things .
And they always put each other first .
...
They 're my role models . ''
And her dad was always there for everyone , she adds .
`` I can not thank him enough for always being there for me .
I can not thank him enough for all that he 's taught me .
I can not thank him enough for showing me how to live life to the fullest .
And I can not thank him enough for teaching @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for me . ''
`` Scott really had the ability to leave these imprints on everybody 's lives , even though he would move on or people would move on ; they still remembered him .
It was n't so much what he said to us , his friends — it was the way he made us feel , '' says his friend Vincent Estrada .
Scott Blanks was a dental assistant and barista .
Despite a busy life , Blanks always made time for his friends .
It could be a spontaneous @ @ @ @ @ @ @ winter or a regular night out dancing .
He became sick with COVID-19 and died on March 27 , two weeks after being hospitalized .
Estrada had known Blanks for 10 years .
The two met online and started spending time together .
`` Scott was very comfortable with himself .
He just really just owned who he was from a very young age .
I did not .
I had a very hard time , as a Latino gay Catholic man , coming to terms with who I was , '' Estrada @ @ @ @ @ @ @ time we were together and then he just , he was very direct .
He just turned to me and he goes , he said , 'So are we dating ?
Are we friends or what ? '
`` Estrada said he did n't know what he wanted ; he just knew he did not want to be alone .
`` He just said , 'It 's OK , boo . '
And then he just hugged me , '' Estrada recalls .
`` I think he saw that I was in a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was just always around , and he slowly made me find myself again and be more confident . ''
`` He got to see me dressed up marrying another man .
... For him to see that I had [ come ] to this moment was very special .
I could just see Scott beaming there and big smile on his face , '' he says .
Estrada remembers a video of Blanks dancing at his wedding .
`` They 're doing a Mexican line dance to Spanish music with Scott .
So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ here 's this African American guy dancing , this , this Mexican line dance , and he 's doing it better than everybody else . ''
That was the last time Estrada saw him .
Verónica Del Valle , Adelina Lancianese , Sam Leeds , Matt Kwong and Taylor Haney contributed reporting to this project .
Meghan Collins Sullivan reported , and produced and edited for digital .
Michael May , Gerry Holmes and Catherine Whelan edited for radio .
Katie Daugert , Nicolette Khan , Sarah Knight , Elizabeth Metzger , Greta @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Research , Archives & Data Strategy team fact-checked .
Lee Smith copy edited .
If you 'd like to join us in this project of remembrance , please fill out the form below .

Remembering Front-Line Workers Lost To COVID-19
Enlarge this image Isabel Seliger for NPR Isabel Seliger for NPR
It has been five months since the novel coronavirus started infecting Americans. Since then, the U.S. has lost more than 120,000 people to the sickness it causes — COVID-19.
So many have been touched by the deaths of family and friends. Here we remember just a few of those who continued working during the pandemic because their jobs called for it and who, ultimately, lost their lives.
Enlarge this image toggle caption Courtesy of Morit Segui Courtesy of Morit Segui
Yves-Emmanuel Segui, 60
Pharmacist in Yonkers, N.Y.
"I think that he just thought: 'Work as usual. There are a lot of sick people and that's even more of a reason for me to work,' " his daughter Morit Segui, a resident physician and OB-GYN in the Bronx, says of her father.
Hear Yves-Emmanuel Segui leave a voicemail for his daughter Chloe 0:35
Yves-Emmanuel Segui had been a pharmacist in Ivory Coast for more than 10 years when political unrest forced the family to leave in 2004. The family immigrated to the U.S. for what he said were "better opportunities."
But Segui had a hard time getting his pharmacy license in the United States. There was a language barrier — he spoke French — and the skills for pharmacists in Ivory Coast are much different, more like being a nurse.
Morit says her father took the pharmacy licensing test eight times. He never gave up — and finally passed.
Segui got a job at a community pharmacy on the border of Yonkers and the Bronx about two years ago, but he continued to make ends meet as a parking garage attendant in Newark, N.J. He died on April 6 of COVID-19.
"I have so many good memories of growing up in the Ivory Coast with my dad. Going to get ice cream was one of the happiest things. Taking trips through the country with him. I love driving because of that — he taught me how to drive," Morit says.
And she fondly recalls him staying up late with her at night after they moved to the U.S., helping her translate her homework (the main language in Ivory Coast is French) so she could get through it. "When I was going through his things, I found the same dictionary we used to translate every word," she says.
Morit's last memory of her dad is meeting him at the halfway point on his two-hour commute.
"Finally, it was time for his dream to be realized. No one expected him to die so soon after working so hard," she says.
Enlarge this image toggle caption Emily Brandon/Courtesy of Grisel Pineda Emily Brandon/Courtesy of Grisel Pineda
Jose Diaz Ayala, 38
Police sergeant in Palm Beach County, Fla.
"It's good to be a police officer because you are helping people. You save people and it's scary, but you are saving people," says his 7-year-old daughter, Bianca.
Hear Jose Diaz Ayala's Daughter Bianca Talk About Her Dad 0:07
Hear Diaz Ayala's Daughter Gianna Talk About Her Dad 0:08
"He had promised the girls some trips over the summer. And our daughter's quinceañera is coming up, and that's a big deal, especially for a father and for his daughter. And I know he was working a lot for that as well," says Grisel Pineda, Diaz Ayala's former wife and the mother of his girls, referring to the coming-of-age celebration for Latinas.
Sgt. Jose Diaz Ayala was an officer in the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office in Florida. He died on April 4 at age 38 of complications due to COVID-19.
He left behind three daughters, all under the age of 15. They and their mom remember Diaz Ayala as someone who could always make them laugh.
"I get my catchphrases from him," says daughter Gianna, 10. "This is an A/B conversation so C your way out of it!"
Diaz Ayala's 7-year-old daughter, Bianca, says her dad took her on adventures, such as going on rides at the carnival. "I think he rode the scary one with me. I think because I was scared. I think I sat in his lap, or I sat next to him. I always held his hand with two hands because his hand's really big."
Pineda was divorced from Diaz Ayala but says the two remained friends. "He was extremely protective of the girls, like when it came to boys."
One time, Diaz Ayala found out that his eldest daughter, Laylanny, had been sharing gummy bears with a boy at school. "And he's like, 'No, no, no, no. You only share your gummy bears with your dad and that's it! No more gummy bears for the rest of the school year!' " Pineda recalls.
Pineda says that after the pandemic got worse, Diaz Ayala was working overtime at the sheriff's office — despite the risks — for some extra spending money.
His daughters lost their provider, their protector. But more than that, says 14-year-old Laylanny, they lost their best friend.
"He was young at heart. The way he talked to you, he just talked to you like you were the same age as him. Like you were, like, equal," she says.
Enlarge this image toggle caption Courtesy of Amanda Williams Courtesy of Amanda Williams
Rose Harrison, 60
Nurse in Hamilton, Ala.
"She worked her entire life. She worked three jobs most of the time. She loved her family," daughter Amanda Williams says of her mother. "Mother was the absolute definition of self-sacrifice. Pure love, selflessness. She was a natural giver."
Hear Rose Harrison leave a message for her granddaughter 0:09
Rose Harrison worked nursing jobs and owned a barbecue restaurant with her husband. She was mother to three, and in another prize role, she was a grandmother to 10.
Harrison cared for her patients at two nursing homes in Alabama during her career until she died of COVID-19 on April 6. She was 60.
"Mother went to nursing school, later in her 20s when the textile plant she worked at closed down. As unfortunate as it was at the time, it was actually a blessing," Williams says. "She was able to enter the nursing profession, which was definitely her calling."
Williams adds that her mother was a motivator for her. "Nursing school, being difficult as it is, she was able to push through it with, you know, us three children. And I use that as my inspiration 'cause I was a single mom when I went through nursing school, and I had three small children. And so I thought, 'If she could do it, I can do it.' "
Harrison had been a nurse for 30 years.
"I think she just, she didn't consider herself first; she always put others before herself, so I know that she was more worried about the other residents than herself," Williams says.
She fondly remembers her mother playing, laughing and dancing with her grandchildren.
"She was just a sassy, sassy woman from Alabama that would speak her mind," Williams recalls. Harrison loved Alabama football and country foods — she was best known for her banana pudding and strawberry shortcake.
"Her family was her everything. She was the foundation of our family. She was who everyone turned to for comfort."
Enlarge this image toggle caption Courtesy of Monique Bertolotti Courtesy of Monique Bertolotti
Gianmarco Bertolotti, 42
Mason at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City
"I want to make sure that his light lives on, you know; he was taken from us in such a dark way. I want to make sure people remember him," says Bertolotti's sister, Monique.
Hear Gianmarco Bertolotti's voice in a message to his sister 0:11
Gianmarco Bertolotti was always creative, his sister says. He loved going to concerts and making art — and that same creativity helped him become a mason at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City.
Bertolotti kept going to work until he was hospitalized himself on April 15 after being diagnosed with pneumonia in both lungs. He died on April 22 after contracting COVID-19 while continuing to work.
Bertolotti loved New Orleans — its culture and music — which he discovered by accident and shared with Monique.
"My brother was like an explorer in life, you know, and then he explored without restriction," Monique says. She says he went to New Orleans on a cross-country trip for his first time with friends. "My brother was drawn to the same things I was drawn to. He loved the music. He loved the people. He loved like the freedom of expression down there."
In remembering Bertolotti, members of his family say they want to be more like him — to find more ways to enjoy life.
"My uncle wants to approach life more gently and not to sweat the small stuff. I would like to explore life without restriction, like my brother did," Monique says. "I would love for my dad to do the same thing. My dad is very old school and very responsible, but this, this loss is tremendous for him. My brother was his best friend."
Enlarge this image toggle caption Courtesy of Katerina Veleska Courtesy of Katerina Veleska
Zlatko Veleski, 53
Building porter in New York City
"Everything was about my mom and him. Valentine's Day, Women's Day, Mother's Day, her birthday. He surprised her every time — he would come with roses or anything just to, like, make her feel better. He just had that kind of heart," Katerina Veleska says of her father.
Hear Zlatko Veleski's Daughter Katerina Talk About Him 0:19
Zlatko Veleski — known as Goldy to his friends — was a family man and a champion for his fellow worker. He was a maintenance worker in the twin towers during the Sept. 11 attacks — and escaped. Veleski was active in his labor union, voicing concerns about the health and safety of his co-workers during the pandemic.
He worked until March 30 and then tested positive for the coronavirus. He died on April 8 at age 53.
Veleski's daughter, Katerina, 26, says her parents shared a strong bond. They met in Macedonia, where her father grew up, when her mother was on a trip there. After they got married, he came to America with his new wife.
"My mom went over there for vacation, and they met each other, dated for 10 days, and she just knew that he was the one," the daughter says. Her mom was 19 at the time. "They were inseparable. Anything that my dad did was with her. He, anything that he did, was for her."
Katerina recalls the 50th birthday party they threw for her dad at their church. "My two nieces were there — which are his two granddaughters — and they put cake on his face, which at anybody's birthday he is the first one to put cake on their face. Everybody saw my mom next to him so they took that as an opportunity to just scream, 'Kiss.' ... We were just mesmerized by how much love they still have after all those years."
Veleski died two days before the couple's 32nd anniversary.
"She feels like she basically lost her best friend. ... It's just hard day by day. It's a day without him," Katerina says of her mother.
Enlarge this image toggle caption Courtesy of Micaela Scott Courtesy of Micaela Scott
Devin Dale Francis, 44
Radiology technician in Miami
"He was a good guy, a great father and the greatest soul mate, you know, a very hard worker ... and a good chef," Micaela Scott says of her fiancé.
Hear Devin Dale Francis' fiancée, Micaela Scott, Talk About Him 0:18
Devin Dale Francis was a front-line worker twice over. The hospital radiology technician also had a job with an airline.
He was months away from getting married when he died of COVID-19 on April 8. Francis was known as Gummy Bear by his friends when he was younger. And he loved to cook.
He was smart, liked to crack jokes and was "quick-witted," Scott says. "He would put a smile on your face. ... Nothing really got to him."
Their daughter, Dekayla, turned 11 in May.
"He was very shy. But if you knew him, you'd never really see him mad," Scott says.
She fondly recalls when they got engaged:
"When he proposed ... it was Christmas; he proposed to me 'cause when we first met, we met around Christmas. I wanted a perfume. ... So when I opened it, I was so happy. Like, oh, my God, he got me — so I'm thinking that's all I got. I was excited about just that. We went to my parents' house. Later on that day, he proposed to me."
Enlarge this image toggle caption Courtesy of Angie Monroe Courtesy of Angie Monroe
Esequiel "Zeke" Cisneros, 64
Nurse at a psychiatric hospital in Medical Lake, Wash.
"For me, he was just a genuine support all the time. Like it was clear that he was there, no matter what, for us — so for me," Angie Monroe says of her stepfather. "He was kind of like a good luck token that you knew you always had in your pocket."
Hear Angie Monroe Talk About Her Stepfather, Esequiel "Zeke" Cisneros 0:15
Esequiel "Zeke" Cisneros was a nurse working with psychiatric patients at Eastern State Hospital in Medical Lake, Wash. He contracted COVID-19 and died on April 13, two days before his 25th wedding anniversary.
"He had apparently picked out a couple [of] rings for my mom's birthday in June, and he picked out a 25th-anniversary ring. ... So we ... had to go get those. And that was a really hard thing to do," Monroe says.
Cisneros had been a nurse for 20 years, working alongside his wife, Brenda, also a nurse at the hospital.
"It was clear that he cared about people. You have to be a nurse. I think it was clear that he cared about us, too," she says. "Every time that anything would happen, stressful, you know, lives are stressful, or anytime that we needed anything. He was always there for us."
Cisneros loved reading – on topics such as history and economics – and wrote fiction.
"It was kind of calming to talk to him. One thing for sure, with Zeke, is that if you started talking to him, you knew you were gonna be there for several hours. It wasn't, like, a short conversation," Monroe says.
And, she says, he really loved her mom — and would tell her lots of jokes.
"I know for a fact that he just loved my mom dearly, like, he was the epitome of a gentleman. He was the type of guy that would open the door for her. ... He would buy her roses, flowers like every day and every week," she says.
The couple had matching dogs – his was Ricky and hers was Lucy — named for the characters in the classic TV sitcom "I Love Lucy."
"I went all the way through undergrad and grad school as a single mom, and I wouldn't have made it without him," Monroe says. "He had that confidence, confidence in you, that you didn't have. There was never any doubt in my ability. He told me, 'You're amazing, you know, you can do it.' And I knew he did that for a lot of people."
Enlarge this image toggle caption Courtesy of Transport Union Workers Courtesy of Transport Union Workers
Erlin Galarza, 66
Bus driver, New York City
"He loved the church. He loved his job," Ana Maria Galarza says of her husband of 42 years. "He wanted always to help people. That's one other thing, is that if anybody needed help, he would tell them, you know, 'I'm here. If you need me, I can help you.' "
Erlin Galarza drove New York City buses. He was a Metropolitan Transportation Authority bus driver, and he contracted the coronavirus while he was working — months before a planned retirement.
He always liked hearing the stories of people traveling alone on the bus.
Hear Erlin Galarza's Wife, Ana Maria, Talk About Him 0:17
Galarza sang in two church choirs. Music enchanted him even as a boy in Ecuador. He just wanted to sing.
"When he was about 10, there was a big choir, and he went one night when they were rehearsing. And then the director came, and she said, 'No, you're too young. You cannot come in here.' And he sat at the door for hours until they were done. And when he came to the United States, the first church that he visited had a choir. He got so excited, and he joined the choir until his death. So he was born with the music in his soul, I think."
Ana Maria says she misses how her husband would call her from work just to check in. Sometimes she still looks out for him in the lobby of their building.
"He would tell me what time he was going to come, and I'd get to greet him at the door every afternoon or every night. Sometimes I forget, and I think he's coming. When you spend most of your life with a person and then this person is gone so quickly, it's hard."
toggle caption Courtesy of Kaila Baumbach
Jeffrey Baumbach, 57
Nurse in Stockton, Calif.
"My dad was the type of person to always make everyone laugh. If you were ever having a bad day or needed someone to talk to, my dad would always be there. No matter how you met my dad, once you meet him, you will instantly love him. ... He was just a genuine person, and he loved everyone," says daughter Kaila, 26, of her dad.
Hear Jeffrey Baumbach's Daughter Kaila Talk About Her Dad 0:17
Jeffrey Baumbach was a nurse in Stockton, Calif. He died of COVID-19 at age 57 on March 31.
"The main reason he became a nurse in the end was because he wanted to help people," Kaila says. "All he ever wanted to do was help everyone."
Kaila says she was always amazed by how her dad remembered everyone he met. When she questioned him about it, he told her it's not the face or name that's memorable – it's the stories.
Baumbach would jokingly make up answers to questions when he didn't know the real one. The family would call them "Jeffisms." Kaila recalls: "He would just smirk at you and tell you what he thought was the answer. And it was usually always wrong, but it would make us laugh."
One of her favorite memories of her dad is of taking him with her to get tattoos when she graduated from high school. "I was really scared to go alone." And then there was the time her acceptance to a California college she wanted to attend was withdrawn. She was devastated. Her dad picked her up and drove her to the college and demanded to know what happened. They figured it out — and she was accepted.
Baumbach and his wife, Karen, were married for 33 years.
"It was the ideal marriage. When I eventually get married, that's exactly how I want my marriage to be. It was full of love," Kaila says. "And they always showed how much they loved each other just by doing the little things. And they always put each other first. ... They're my role models."
And her dad was always there for everyone, she adds.
"I cannot thank him enough for always being there for me. I cannot thank him enough for all that he's taught me. I cannot thank him enough for showing me how to live life to the fullest. And I cannot thank him enough for teaching me how to love and loving me for me."
Enlarge this image toggle caption Courtesy of Vincent Estrada Courtesy of Vincent Estrada
Scott Blanks, 34
Dental assistant in Whittier, Calif.
"Scott really had the ability to leave these imprints on everybody's lives, even though he would move on or people would move on; they still remembered him. It wasn't so much what he said to us, his friends — it was the way he made us feel," says his friend Vincent Estrada.
Hear Scott Blanks' Friend Vincent Estrada Talk About Him 0:11
Scott Blanks was a dental assistant and barista. Despite a busy life, Blanks always made time for his friends. It could be a spontaneous visit to Boston in the middle of winter or a regular night out dancing.
He became sick with COVID-19 and died on March 27, two weeks after being hospitalized.
Estrada had known Blanks for 10 years. The two met online and started spending time together.
"Scott was very comfortable with himself. He just really just owned who he was from a very young age. I did not. I had a very hard time, as a Latino gay Catholic man, coming to terms with who I was," Estrada says. "And I remember one time we were together and then he just, he was very direct. He just turned to me and he goes, he said, 'So are we dating? Are we friends or what?' "
Estrada said he didn't know what he wanted; he just knew he did not want to be alone.
"He just said, 'It's OK, boo.' And then he just hugged me," Estrada recalls. "I think he saw that I was in a difficult place in my life. He was just always around, and he slowly made me find myself again and be more confident."
Estrada got married in December.
"He got to see me dressed up marrying another man. ... For him to see that I had [come] to this moment was very special. I could just see Scott beaming there and big smile on his face," he says.
Estrada remembers a video of Blanks dancing at his wedding.
"They're doing a Mexican line dance to Spanish music with Scott. So it's all Latinos. And then here's this African American guy dancing, this, this Mexican line dance, and he's doing it better than everybody else."
That was the last time Estrada saw him.
Meghan Collins Sullivan produced and edited this project. Michael May, Gerry Holmes and Catherine Whelan edited for radio. Matt Kwong and Taylor Haney contributed reporting. Katie Daugert, Nicolette Khan, Sarah Knight, Elizabeth Metzger, Greta Pittenger and Julia Wohl with NPR's Research, Archives & Data Strategy team fact-checked. Lee Smith copy edited. Alyson Hurt consulted on design.
If you'd like to join us in this project of remembrance, please fill out the form below.


npr--2020-06-22--Noose Left In Black Driver's Garage Stall At NASCAR Race Track

A noose — among the most threatening and resonant images from America 's long history of white racist violence — was left in the garage stall Sunday of NASCAR 's sole African American driver in the Cup Series , its top stock car racing circuit .
NASCAR said the incident took place at its race track in Talladega , Ala .
The garage stall was assigned to Bubba Wallace , who had led the successful campaign to ban Confederate flags from NASCAR facilities and events , which went into effect earlier this month .
In a statement , Wallace said @ @ @ @ @ @ @ racism and hatred leaves me incredibly saddened and serves as a painful reminder of how much further we have to go as a society and how persistent we must be in the fight against racism . ''
`` We are angry and outraged , and can not state strongly enough how seriously we take this heinous act .
We have launched an immediate investigation , and will do everything we can to identify the person ( s ) responsible and eliminate them from the sport .
As we have stated unequivocally , there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and this act only strengthens our resolve to make the sport open and welcoming to all . ''
Sunday 's race at the Talladega Superspeedway was postponed to Monday because of rain .
It was to have been the first large public sporting event since crowd restrictions were imposed across the nation because of the coronavirus .
Some 5,000 spectators were permitted in a venue that seats about 100,000 .
It was also the first test of NASCAR 's ban on the Confederate flag .
Within the speedway , the ban appeared @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a rolling protest of vehicles flew large Confederate banners , and merchants were selling souvenirs with the flag 's image .
An unidentified pilot flew a light plane over the speedway , trailing a large Confederate flag and a banner with the words , `` Defund NASCAR . ''
`` Together , '' Wallace continued in his statement , `` our sport has made a commitment to driving real change and championing a community that is accepting and welcoming of everyone .
Nothing is more important and we will not be deterred by @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to spread hate . ''

Noose Left In Black NASCAR Driver Bubba Wallace's Garage Stall At Racetrack
Enlarge this image toggle caption Steve Helber/AP Steve Helber/AP
Updated at 11:45 a.m. ET
A noose — among the most threatening and resonant images from America's long history of white racist violence — was left in the garage stall Sunday of NASCAR's only Black driver in the Cup Series, its top stock car racing circuit.
NASCAR said the incident took place at its racetrack in Talladega, Ala. The garage stall was assigned to Bubba Wallace, who had led the successful campaign to ban Confederate flags from NASCAR facilities and events, which went into effect earlier this month.
Enlarge this image toggle caption John Bazemore/AP John Bazemore/AP
In a statement, Wallace said, "Today's despicable act of racism and hatred leaves me incredibly saddened and serves as a painful reminder of how much further we have to go as a society and how persistent we must be in the fight against racism."
NASCAR condemned the act:
"We are angry and outraged, and cannot state strongly enough how seriously we take this heinous act. We have launched an immediate investigation, and will do everything we can to identify the person(s) responsible and eliminate them from the sport. As we have stated unequivocally, there is no place for racism in NASCAR, and this act only strengthens our resolve to make the sport open and welcoming to all."
The Justice Department announced Monday that it will be looking into the incident.
"The U.S. Attorney's office for the Northern District of Alabama, FBI and the Department of Justice Civil Rights Division are reviewing the situation surrounding the noose that was found in Bubba Wallace's garage to determine whether there are violations of federal law," Jay E. Town, U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Alabama, said in a statement. "Regardless of whether federal charges can be brought, this type of action has no place in our society."
Sunday's race at the Talladega Superspeedway was postponed to Monday because of rain. It was to have been the first large public sporting event since crowd restrictions were imposed across the nation because of the coronavirus. Some 5,000 spectators were permitted in a venue that seats about 100,000.
It was also the first test of NASCAR's ban on the Confederate flag.
toggle caption John Bazemore/AP
Within the speedway, the ban appeared to be successful. But outside, a rolling protest of vehicles flew large Confederate banners, and merchants were selling souvenirs with the flag's image. An unidentified pilot flew a small plane over the speedway, trailing a large Confederate flag and a banner with the words "Defund NASCAR."
"Together," Wallace continued in his statement, "our sport has made a commitment to driving real change and championing a community that is accepting and welcoming of everyone. Nothing is more important, and we will not be deterred by the reprehensible actions of those who seek to spread hate."


npr--2020-06-22--Transcript: NPR's Full Interview With John Bolton

Former national security adviser John Bolton talked with NPR 's Steve Inskeep on Sunday about his new book , The Room Where It Happened , his time in the White House and President Trump 's impeachment .
Steve Inskeep : As you know , ambassador , the judge declined to block publication , but said you opted out of the national security clearance process .
And this is a quote from the ruling : `` Bolton 's unilateral conduct raises grave national security concerns . ''
And another quote : `` Bolton was wrong . ''
Do you accept that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ look , to begin with , we 're very happy with ruling to stop the unprecedented effort by the Trump administration to prevent the book from being published at all .
And we think that it was part of an effort by the president to suppress the book .
We 'll have a lot more to say to that as the litigation proceeds .
And beyond that , because we are in litigation , that 's really all I can say .
Although there is another vital point here .
The judge reviewed @ @ @ @ @ @ @ camera , in private , and said the judge is persuaded that defendant Bolton likely jeopardized national security by disclosing classified information .
Did you disclose classified information to your knowledge ?
I did not .
It was never my intention to in writing the manuscript to disclose classified information .
I 've had years of experience with this and we went through the full prepublication clearance process at the NSC .
And again , these are all issues to be discussed .
That hearing that you mentioned was ex parte , that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I did n't participate in it .
So there is a lot more to come here .
Without getting into too many details , because it sounds like you 're reluctant to get too detailed , you just said you went through the full process .
The judge said you opted out .
You did not go through the full process .
What 's the difference there ?
Well , I think it 's going to become very clear as events go on here .
There 's much that needs to be done @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the result of about an hour and a half , two hour hearing .
So there 'll be an evidentiary story to develop and a story to tell .
When you say you went through the full process , do you mean all the details were checked and they just did n't give the final clearance ?
Is that what you mean to say ?
The government itself in its papers says that the NSC senior director concluded and told me that there was no classified information in the manuscript .
The government @ @ @ @ @ @ @ say that the risk here for you , if they were to find classified information in the book , was that you could lose all royalties .
You could lose a lot of other things as well .
Was there something about this book that is so important that it is worth risking all your income and perhaps a lot more for ?
Well , look , in the Trump administration , the rules do n't apply in many respects .
I wrote this book as a matter of philosophy and belief in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the Trump administration before the American public , for them to make up their mind .
I felt I had an obligation to do it .
I explain that in the book itself .
And I knew there would be trials and tribulations when you displease Donald Trump .
Ask his niece who he 's now saying signed a nondisclosure agreement that prohibits her book from being published .
So this is all par for the course .
And I did n't look forward to it .
Do n't get me wrong , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be pleasant .
But I have been determined and was vindicated , I think , by the court in laying the story before the American people .
They will be the ones who decide .
In retrospect , would have been better to tell some of this story before Congress during the impeachment proceedings ?
Well , you know , it 's it 's an important question .
I addressed that in the book as well .
My view is that the way the House Democrats set up the impeachment process , that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ up for failure , right at the beginning .
I considered their strategy to be impeachment malpractice .
They did n't take any of the steps that one would think would make sense , to reach out to Republicans who might be sympathetic to considering the president 's behavior .
There was nothing akin to an Ervin committee process , as there was during the Watergate days .
And the consequence of the very narrow focus that the Democrats adopted without consultation outside their own narrow circle , as far as I can @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it done so that the impeachment proceedings did n't interfere with the Democratic presidential nomination had the effect of pushing House Republicans into a corner .
And so what ended up was a bitterly partisan debate that prefigured essentially what was then going to happen in the Senate .
So if the objective of the process really was to seek impeachment and conviction , the entire strategy going in was misguided .
If it was simply to do some virtue signalling , well , that probably was accomplished .
But when the advocates @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that does n't require the rest of the country to go along with it .
And I think their failure actually makes it harder to talk about some of the conduct I try and lay out in the book .
But just so that I 'm clear on this , though , ambassador , you eventually decided you were willing to testify before the Senate , which , of course , did not want your testimony .
The Senate Republicans did not want to take testimony .
By saying that you were willing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ your arguments for refusing the House , which did want your testimony ?
Not at all .
No .
1 , and I lay this all out in a statement at the time , in January , I reprint the full statement in the book .
I wo n't for the benefit of your listeners recite it from the text of the book .
But the point was that this conduct by the House and how they treated Charlie Kupperman , the deputy national security adviser , whom they subpoenaed and then withdrew @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he received from the White House counsel 's office was a demonstration that anything that might throw the Democrats ' impeachment schedule out of kilter , they were n't willing to consider .
And I understand what their problem was with their presidential nomination .
But let 's be clear : Impeachment is probably the gravest constitutional responsibility the House has .
And I 'm sorry that that grave responsibility was affected by their own political calculus .
But in effect , that 's what the Ukraine allegations about Trump were all about @ @ @ @ @ @ @ own political interest .
So this is part of the impeachment malpractice that I 've complained about .
Now , let 's talk about what you write about the president of the United States and about the process that you tried to impose or follow inside the White House .
You talk about your hiring by the Trump administration and you write that no one could claim by this point , 2018 , no one could claim by this point not to know the risks , `` but I thought I could succeed @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
Because I felt from prior conversations with Donald Trump when he was a private citizen during the transition , briefly during the campaign , during transition , during his first year in office , I thought it was possible that you could have a more normal , more organized , more coherent , more consistent policy formulation and implementation process .
That was my view .
I think that I went in with my eyes open , but maybe I went in too optimistically .
And so the story of the book @ @ @ @ @ @ @ obtained in the day-to-day life at the White House .
What was wrong on a day-to-day basis with the president 's decision making process ?
Well , this really , in a sense , is a book about how not to be president .
The decision making process was not coherent .
It followed episodically and anecdotally on what the president thought .
At any given time , decisions could be made and reversed and then reversed again in very rapid fashion .
Decisions were made without ultimate objectives and strategies in mind @ @ @ @ @ @ @ frustrating and I do n't think it was just frustrating for me .
I think it was frustrating for , certainly in the national security area , all of the senior advisers , each of whom reacted in different ways and left at different times or remained .
You write about some of those advisers quite critically , and you say that the original adults in the room who were supposed to help guide the president early in the administration failed because they simply opposed the president and frustrated his desires .
Do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Well , I think part of the problem at the beginning was that they — not all of them , to be sure — but enough of them , made it clear they thought they were the axis of adults , they were the only ones in the room that could keep things under control .
And that had an effect on Trump , who probably exacerbating his feelings going in , began , I think , not to trust most of the — ultimately came to trust most of the senior advisers @ @ @ @ @ @ @ opportunities were lost at the beginning .
I tell in the book about a trip to the United Kingdom where the president was shown an exercise by British military together with U.S. military forces .
He had never been to one , with just American forces before that .
And there were areas that I felt could have been explored earlier that were very hard to go back on .
So the early failures , I would say , made it worse .
But ultimately , Trump is Trump , and that 's @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you end up in the same position as some of those early adults in the room ?
I think about North Korea to give one example that you write about a lot .
You also ended up struggling desperately to keep the president from sabotaging his own goals or making bad concessions .
Well , and I think that as that policy and his actions evolved over time , the Korea issue was a major factor in my decision to resign .
I try and explain in the book how this develops .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ on the outside look and say , well , `` How could you have gone into the administration to begin with ? ''
or `` How come you did n't resign at this point ? ''
or `` How come you did n't resign at that point ? ''
And I would say , and I think this applies to many others in the administration as well , we thought we were trying to help out , pursue policies that protected American national security .
And if you resign or think about resigning @ @ @ @ @ @ @ go exactly your way , you would n't last 24 hours in most administrations .
It 's part of the process is appreciating that it is the president 's decision .
And you work at it as long as you can , as long as you think you 're making a contribution .
But you were frustrated again and again when it came to North Korea .
I 'm thinking of one particular incident in the run up to the Singapore summit , one of the summits between President Trump and Kim Jong @ @ @ @ @ @ @ The summit is off .
The summit is back on .
The summit is off .
And at one point , you say the president compared his courtship of Kim Jong Un to his dating life .
In what way ?
Well , he said that he always , back in the day , as they say , he always wanted to be the one who broke up with the girl first .
He did n't want the girl to break up with him .
And he used that to describe whether he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Un first or whether we would risk the North Koreans canceling it .
And I thought it was an insight into the president , candidly given , that showed how he approached this .
As opposed to looking at it from the perspective of what our ultimate strategic interest was , in my view , would have been better not to agree to the summit to begin with .
And I might say , as we 've seen just in recent weeks , where North Korea has literally blown up the office building @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with the South Koreans , that this entire two-year-long effort with North Korea ended in diplomatic failure .
But that allowed the North Koreans the time that they need to continue to pursue nuclear weapons and ballistic missile delivery systems .
Did the president have a kind of romantic approach to numerous dictators ?
He was , in your telling , always concerned about his personal relationship with it , with the individual dictator .
Yeah , I think that 's an accurate description , and I do n't discount the importance of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the countries , whether they 're friends or adversaries .
It 's true at the secretary of state level , the secretary of defense level as well .
But I think the president had a continued problem in discerning the difference between having a good personal relationship with Xi Jinping , let 's say , and the U.S. having good relations with China in the sense of advancing American national interest .
And I think it was this confusion that led us into a number of problem areas and are still causing us @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that the United States has become reluctant to criticize China 's human rights record , for example , or to criticize Russia ?
Well , you know , I think that this is an example of how the president 's policy is so often incoherent and how it responds to domestic political pressure .
So , for I recount several incidents in the book with respect to the Uighurs , with respect to the anniversary of the 1989 massacre at Tiananmen Square and a number of other issues where the president said , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have human rights problems , too . ''
Now , just recently , he signed legislation designed to clarify his power to exact sanctions on China against the Uighurs .
But even as recently as Sunday afternoon , he was pointing out that doing so could interfere with trade negotiations with China .
So it sounds like he 's tough on one day , the next day he 's not .
And I think once the November election is behind us , if he wins , I think it 's entirely possible he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ negotiation .
Meaning that he 'll drop the human rights concerns as soon as he 's concerned about something else ?
Well , I think once he 's free of any reelection pressure , it 's going to be revealed .
What one of my greatest concerns is , is that he 's not a conservative .
And that 's one reason I wrote the book .
I think it 's important to make it clear to Republicans and to Democrats that this is not the future of the Republican Party .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ or loses in November — and I still think he has an excellent chance to win — that we 're going to have a significant discussion over what the direction of the party should be .
Why do you write that the president seemed to be practicing , quote , `` Obstruction of justice as a way of life ? ''
Well , I think there were numerous instances where he did things involving American national interest , sometimes in the judicial context , sometimes in other contexts , that mixed impermissibly his @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
I think that was true in Ukraine and a number of other areas , Halkbank , Huawei , ZTE .
These are issues that I think are very troubling .
I think it 's a contrast with the way that prior administrations have acted .
In the case of Ukraine , for example , compare what happened in 1992 when a number of Republican members of Congress suggested to President George H.W .
Bush and Jim Baker that they ask Britain and other countries to look into the travels of the young @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and Bush 41 and Baker said , `` We are absolutely not going to ask a foreign government for help , '' whereas Trump did exactly that .
Trump did that in Ukraine .
You feel that he was constantly doing favors for Xi Jinping in order to impress Xi Jinping .
And you also write about a favor that he seemed to ask of China 's President Xi involving the elections .
What was it ?
Well , it was stunningly clear , and I describe it in paraphrase in the book @ @ @ @ @ @ @ prepublication review process indicated that that 's the way they wanted it .
But there was a clear linkage between increased Chinese purchases of American agricultural products and Trump 's reelection by benefiting farmers in key agricultural states whose electoral votes he needed .
He was asking for China to increase its farm purchases , U.S. farm purchases , in order for him , Trump , to get votes .
Yeah .
Look , this was a long-standing discussion about picking up additional purchases of agricultural products by the Chinese to reduce the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Trump focused on constantly .
But I think it was clear from that and other comments that the real motivation was political .
Now , again , every president has political considerations in mind , not just in national security decisions , but in domestic decisions as well .
The issue is whether the political factors are among those being considered or whether they are the driving , dominant force .
And I think , really , that 's why President Trump does n't does n't want to , did n't want this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he fears that foreign governments are going to read it .
He 's worried the American people are going to read it .
Robert Lighthizer , the trade negotiator , U.S. trade negotiator , when told about that revelation in your book , said , `` It 's completely crazy . ''
That 's a quote .
And that he does n't remember it happening .
Was Lighthizer present when this conversation took place ?
He was at that conversation in Osaka .
I can tell you I feel very confident my recollection @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the only time it came up .
I want to ask about — oh , you mean the president of the United States asked for that kind of favor multiple times with Xi Jinping ?
Well , they talked frequently about Trump 's reelection , Xi Jinping saying that he wished that there were n't a two-term limit .
And the president said , `` Yeah , I 've had people say to me that it 's too bad about the two-term limit . ''
I just thought this was the kind of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ reflect well on Donald Trump himself or the presidency or the United States .
Since your credibility has been questioned , I just want to note that throughout the book you give the dates and exact times of a lot of meetings .
You give so many exact dates and times that the New York Times reviewer did n't like reading it for that reason .
Were you writing from detailed contemporaneous notes when you put this book together ?
Well , look , this , the book is my best recollection .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ of prepublication review process , but it 's a nearly 500 page book and there 's a lot in there .
I 'd like to see what ultimately people specifically disagree with and what their characterisation is .
And again , I 'm sure this is something that others may want to write on , too .
Ultimately , historians will be the judge of a lot of this .
One day when the archives of the Chinese government are open to the people — they had as many observers on their side @ @ @ @ @ @ @ They heard what the president said .
I think they understood it .
But what I wonder is , at the end of the day , were you taking notes , taking home your notes , writing your recollections in real time , and then referring back to those notes when you wrote this book a year or two later ?
All of the notes that I took were destroyed before I left the government .
So this is your recollection in every case ?
I 'm just going to leave it at @ @ @ @ @ @ @ has also denied , I believe , a story in which you say that Pompeo passed you a note using a profanity to describe the president .
Do you have anything to back up that other than your recollection ?
No .
Other than , we were sitting right next to each other at the table .
And I think he wrote it on his notepad , put it in front of me .
I nodded my head and he took it back .
You did n't write anything back going the other @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to be passing notes in class in a meeting where the president was talking ?
Well , I think sometimes you pass notes directly to the president or have a word in his ear as the meeting is going on , of course , because in aid of the course of the discussion , you want to be prepared .
And I think this is entirely normal .
There 's a small meeting and the conversation was predominantly almost exclusively between Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un .
But no , I think @ @ @ @ @ @ @ president fundamentally unfit for the job ?
I do n't think he 's really competent to be president .
It 's put me in a very difficult dilemma .
I voted for him in 2016 because I thought given the choice between him and Hillary Clinton , that that was the choice to make .
But having seen him in operation for 17 months , I just can not vote for him again .
I 'm planning to write in the name of a conservative Republican identity to be determined yet .
But @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Trump and I will not be voting for Joe Biden .
You wo n't be voting for Joe Biden , why not ?
Because I disagree with his policies .
I 've known him for many years .
This is not a question of integrity , in my view .
It 's a question of philosophy .
This is a very unhappy election for me .
As I say , I face the same dilemma as I think many people did in 2016 .
And I chose at that time because I thought @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for the country to vote for Trump .
But given my experience , I just ca n't see doing it again .
I am obliged to waste a few of our remaining seconds checking here , because The Daily Telegraph is just in the last few minutes reported , you said you 're voting for Biden .
I think you 're telling me they 're wrong .
That was — I do n't know what the source of the confusion is there , but I can tell you that as I 've said @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in other interviews , that I 'm neither voting for Biden nor Trump .
I 'm going to write into another name .
OK. A couple of other questions , ambassador .
As it 's become very clear , in recent months , critics of the president strongly disagree with you for not testifying at impeachment .
I 've heard scathing words about you when I mentioned that we 're getting ready for this interview .
Secretary of State Pompeo called you a traitor .
Clearly , the supporters of the president are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you mind being hated by people on all sides ?
Well , you know , it 's not something I set out to do .
Feelings are very strong on the question of Donald Trump .
And I think that 's one of the problems with the distortion of our politics , is that everybody 's in their corners lined up and everything Trump did is right or everything Trump did is wrong .
And if you do n't side with the way I want to do things , your morality comes into @ @ @ @ @ @ @ calm down .
In the case of the Democratic criticism , with respect to impeachment , I thought their strategy was fundamentally flawed .
And with all due respect , they failed to convict the president .
They said , well that nonetheless , having impeached him , it will determine the future .
I think they 're 180 degrees backwards .
The fact he was acquitted will empower him , not deter him .
And as far as the Republican critics are concerned , we 're going to have a conversation within @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a whole after the November election , whether Trump wins or loses , about the future of the party .
And I think we ought to reserve judgment until we get to that point and then have the conversation to make sure the American people do n't mistake the conservative Republican philosophy as being identical with Donald Trump , because it is not .
I want to ask about one other thing , where you seek to correct the record from your point of view .
You write of disbanding an office within @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on pandemics .
That received a lot of criticism when the pandemic arrived .
You argue that , in fact , a different part of the NSC took over that task and that the NSC worked fine and even gave an early warning of the pandemic .
And then you write this : `` The internal NSC structure was no more than the quiver of a butterfly 's wings in the tsunami of Trump 's chaos . ''
Is that one way to summarize your whole time at the National Security Council ?
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ far from the truth .
I mean , specifically in the case of coronavirus , and I do think this is important , whether it 's in the context of the 2020 election or how somebody runs the presidency , in January and really even beyond that , Trump simply did not want to hear anything bad about the situation in China .
He did n't want anything that could be seen as critical of Xi Jinping .
He did n't want to hear anything about the extent of the virus or whether @ @ @ @ @ @ @ or covered up the spread of the disease .
And he did n't want to hear anything about negative effects on the Chinese economy that could undermine the trade negotiations , No .
1 .
And No .
2 , he did not want to hear anything that could suggest trouble for the American economy , which he saw as his , but not unrealistically , he saw as his ticket to reelection .
And that empty chair in the Oval Office is one of the things I think that explains the early @ @ @ @ @ @ @ structures in the Centers for Disease Control or the National Institutes of Health or the Department of Health and Human Services or the National Security Council staff or the State Department .
The fault lies in the Oval Office .
Would you give any advice to people who are still in the administration and perhaps are thinking now what you thought at one time , that you could do some good , good in there despite the failings of the president , as you saw it ?
You know , having been through @ @ @ @ @ @ @ through it the before and after me , I ca n't really offer them advice .
This is an intensely personal decision .
But I do think this : I do n't think people should be criticized for believing in good faith that hanging in there in tough circumstances somehow is an abdication of their morality or their philosophy .
I think people tried hard to do things right .
Some had better success than others .
But I do n't think that , you know , unless you 've walked in their @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is not fair .
As each person comes out , you know , as the alumni society grows , and I think this will be part of the conversation we have post-November , whether Trump wins or loses .
Ambassador John Bolton is the author of The Room Where It Happened .
Thanks so much , ambassador .
Enjoyed talking with you .
Glad to be with you .
Thanks for having me .

Transcript: NPR's Full Interview With John Bolton
Enlarge this image toggle caption Brendan Smialowski/AFP via Getty Images Brendan Smialowski/AFP via Getty Images
Former national security adviser John Bolton talked with NPR's Steve Inskeep on Sunday about his new book, The Room Where It Happened, his time in the White House and President Trump's impeachment.
Steve Inskeep: As you know, ambassador, the judge declined to block publication, but said you opted out of the national security clearance process. And this is a quote from the ruling: "Bolton's unilateral conduct raises grave national security concerns." And another quote: "Bolton was wrong." Do you accept that judgment?
John Bolton: Well, look, to begin with, we're very happy with ruling to stop the unprecedented effort by the Trump administration to prevent the book from being published at all. And we think that it was part of an effort by the president to suppress the book. We'll have a lot more to say to that as the litigation proceeds. And beyond that, because we are in litigation, that's really all I can say.
Although there is another vital point here. The judge reviewed a classified filing from the government in camera, in private, and said the judge is persuaded that defendant Bolton likely jeopardized national security by disclosing classified information. Did you disclose classified information to your knowledge?
I did not. It was never my intention to in writing the manuscript to disclose classified information. I've had years of experience with this and we went through the full prepublication clearance process at the NSC. And again, these are all issues to be discussed. That hearing that you mentioned was ex parte, that is to say, my counsel and I didn't participate in it. So there is a lot more to come here.
Without getting into too many details, because it sounds like you're reluctant to get too detailed, you just said you went through the full process. The judge said you opted out. You did not go through the full process. What's the difference there?
Well, I think it's going to become very clear as events go on here. There's much that needs to be done in the litigation. And this was the result of about an hour and a half, two hour hearing. So there'll be an evidentiary story to develop and a story to tell.
When you say you went through the full process, do you mean all the details were checked and they just didn't give the final clearance? Is that what you mean to say?
The government itself in its papers says that the NSC senior director concluded and told me that there was no classified information in the manuscript. The government said that.
Now the judge did say that the risk here for you, if they were to find classified information in the book, was that you could lose all royalties. You could lose a lot of other things as well. Was there something about this book that is so important that it is worth risking all your income and perhaps a lot more for?
Well, look, in the Trump administration, the rules don't apply in many respects. I wrote this book as a matter of philosophy and belief in the importance of putting the facts about the Trump administration before the American public, for them to make up their mind. I felt I had an obligation to do it. I explain that in the book itself.
And I knew there would be trials and tribulations when you displease Donald Trump. Ask his niece who he's now saying signed a nondisclosure agreement that prohibits her book from being published. So this is all par for the course. And I didn't look forward to it. Don't get me wrong, this wasn't anything I thought would be pleasant. But I have been determined and was vindicated, I think, by the court in laying the story before the American people. They will be the ones who decide.
In retrospect, would have been better to tell some of this story before Congress during the impeachment proceedings?
Well, you know, it's it's an important question. I addressed that in the book as well. My view is that the way the House Democrats set up the impeachment process, that they, in effect, set themselves up for failure, right at the beginning. I considered their strategy to be impeachment malpractice.
They didn't take any of the steps that one would think would make sense, to reach out to Republicans who might be sympathetic to considering the president's behavior. There was nothing akin to an Ervin committee process, as there was during the Watergate days. And the consequence of the very narrow focus that the Democrats adopted without consultation outside their own narrow circle, as far as I can tell, and their rush to get it done so that the impeachment proceedings didn't interfere with the Democratic presidential nomination had the effect of pushing House Republicans into a corner.
And so what ended up was a bitterly partisan debate that prefigured essentially what was then going to happen in the Senate. So if the objective of the process really was to seek impeachment and conviction, the entire strategy going in was misguided. If it was simply to do some virtue signalling, well, that probably was accomplished. But when the advocates of impeachment adopted this flawed strategy, that doesn't require the rest of the country to go along with it. And I think their failure actually makes it harder to talk about some of the conduct I try and lay out in the book.
But just so that I'm clear on this, though, ambassador, you eventually decided you were willing to testify before the Senate, which, of course, did not want your testimony. The Senate Republicans did not want to take testimony. By saying that you were willing to testify, doesn't that undermine your arguments for refusing the House, which did want your testimony?
Not at all. No. 1, and I lay this all out in a statement at the time, in January, I reprint the full statement in the book. I won't for the benefit of your listeners recite it from the text of the book. But the point was that this conduct by the House and how they treated Charlie Kupperman, the deputy national security adviser, whom they subpoenaed and then withdrew the subpoena. And the instructions that he received from the White House counsel's office was a demonstration that anything that might throw the Democrats' impeachment schedule out of kilter, they weren't willing to consider.
And I understand what their problem was with their presidential nomination. But let's be clear: Impeachment is probably the gravest constitutional responsibility the House has. And I'm sorry that that grave responsibility was affected by their own political calculus. But in effect, that's what the Ukraine allegations about Trump were all about, torquing legitimate government power around his own political interest. So this is part of the impeachment malpractice that I've complained about.
Now, let's talk about what you write about the president of the United States and about the process that you tried to impose or follow inside the White House. You talk about your hiring by the Trump administration and you write that no one could claim by this point, 2018, no one could claim by this point not to know the risks, "but I thought I could succeed." Why did you think that?
Because I felt from prior conversations with Donald Trump when he was a private citizen during the transition, briefly during the campaign, during transition, during his first year in office, I thought it was possible that you could have a more normal, more organized, more coherent, more consistent policy formulation and implementation process. That was my view. I think that I went in with my eyes open, but maybe I went in too optimistically. And so the story of the book really is what I found, actually obtained in the day-to-day life at the White House.
What was wrong on a day-to-day basis with the president's decision making process?
Well, this really, in a sense, is a book about how not to be president. The decision making process was not coherent. It followed episodically and anecdotally on what the president thought. At any given time, decisions could be made and reversed and then reversed again in very rapid fashion. Decisions were made without ultimate objectives and strategies in mind. And I think it was very frustrating and I don't think it was just frustrating for me. I think it was frustrating for, certainly in the national security area, all of the senior advisers, each of whom reacted in different ways and left at different times or remained.
You write about some of those advisers quite critically, and you say that the original adults in the room who were supposed to help guide the president early in the administration failed because they simply opposed the president and frustrated his desires. Do you feel you did any better?
Well, I think part of the problem at the beginning was that they — not all of them, to be sure — but enough of them, made it clear they thought they were the axis of adults, they were the only ones in the room that could keep things under control.
And that had an effect on Trump, who probably exacerbating his feelings going in, began, I think, not to trust most of the — ultimately came to trust most of the senior advisers. And I think a lot of opportunities were lost at the beginning. I tell in the book about a trip to the United Kingdom where the president was shown an exercise by British military together with U.S. military forces. He had never been to one, with just American forces before that. And there were areas that I felt could have been explored earlier that were very hard to go back on. So the early failures, I would say, made it worse. But ultimately, Trump is Trump, and that's where the responsibility lies.
Although did you end up in the same position as some of those early adults in the room? I think about North Korea to give one example that you write about a lot. You also ended up struggling desperately to keep the president from sabotaging his own goals or making bad concessions.
Well, and I think that as that policy and his actions evolved over time, the Korea issue was a major factor in my decision to resign. I try and explain in the book how this develops. You know, a lot of people on the outside look and say, well, "How could you have gone into the administration to begin with?" or "How come you didn't resign at this point?" or "How come you didn't resign at that point?"
And I would say, and I think this applies to many others in the administration as well, we thought we were trying to help out, pursue policies that protected American national security. And if you resign or think about resigning every time a presidential decision doesn't go exactly your way, you wouldn't last 24 hours in most administrations. It's part of the process is appreciating that it is the president's decision. And you work at it as long as you can, as long as you think you're making a contribution.
But you were frustrated again and again when it came to North Korea. I'm thinking of one particular incident in the run up to the Singapore summit, one of the summits between President Trump and Kim Jong Un. The summit is on. The summit is off. The summit is back on. The summit is off. And at one point, you say the president compared his courtship of Kim Jong Un to his dating life. In what way?
Well, he said that he always, back in the day, as they say, he always wanted to be the one who broke up with the girl first. He didn't want the girl to break up with him. And he used that to describe whether he would cancel the summit with Kim Jong Un first or whether we would risk the North Koreans canceling it. And I thought it was an insight into the president, candidly given, that showed how he approached this. As opposed to looking at it from the perspective of what our ultimate strategic interest was, in my view, would have been better not to agree to the summit to begin with.
And I might say, as we've seen just in recent weeks, where North Korea has literally blown up the office building that had been used as a liaison with the South Koreans, that this entire two-year-long effort with North Korea ended in diplomatic failure. But that allowed the North Koreans the time that they need to continue to pursue nuclear weapons and ballistic missile delivery systems.
Did the president have a kind of romantic approach to numerous dictators? He was, in your telling, always concerned about his personal relationship with it, with the individual dictator.
Yeah, I think that's an accurate description, and I don't discount the importance of personal relations between the top leaders of the countries, whether they're friends or adversaries. It's true at the secretary of state level, the secretary of defense level as well. But I think the president had a continued problem in discerning the difference between having a good personal relationship with Xi Jinping, let's say, and the U.S. having good relations with China in the sense of advancing American national interest. And I think it was this confusion that led us into a number of problem areas and are still causing us problems today.
Is this the reason that the United States has become reluctant to criticize China's human rights record, for example, or to criticize Russia?
Well, you know, I think that this is an example of how the president's policy is so often incoherent and how it responds to domestic political pressure. So, for I recount several incidents in the book with respect to the Uighurs, with respect to the anniversary of the 1989 massacre at Tiananmen Square and a number of other issues where the president said, "Well, you know, we have human rights problems, too."
Now, just recently, he signed legislation designed to clarify his power to exact sanctions on China against the Uighurs. But even as recently as Sunday afternoon, he was pointing out that doing so could interfere with trade negotiations with China. So it sounds like he's tough on one day, the next day he's not. And I think once the November election is behind us, if he wins, I think it's entirely possible he'll be right back to the trade negotiation.
Meaning that he'll drop the human rights concerns as soon as he's concerned about something else?
Well, I think once he's free of any reelection pressure, it's going to be revealed. What one of my greatest concerns is, is that he's not a conservative. And that's one reason I wrote the book. I think it's important to make it clear to Republicans and to Democrats that this is not the future of the Republican Party. And these are issues, whether Trump wins or loses in November — and I still think he has an excellent chance to win — that we're going to have a significant discussion over what the direction of the party should be.
Why do you write that the president seemed to be practicing, quote, "Obstruction of justice as a way of life?"
Well, I think there were numerous instances where he did things involving American national interest, sometimes in the judicial context, sometimes in other contexts, that mixed impermissibly his personal political interests with the national interest. I think that was true in Ukraine and a number of other areas, Halkbank, Huawei, ZTE. These are issues that I think are very troubling.
I think it's a contrast with the way that prior administrations have acted. In the case of Ukraine, for example, compare what happened in 1992 when a number of Republican members of Congress suggested to President George H.W. Bush and Jim Baker that they ask Britain and other countries to look into the travels of the young Bill Clinton when he was at Oxford and Bush 41 and Baker said, "We are absolutely not going to ask a foreign government for help," whereas Trump did exactly that.
Trump did that in Ukraine. You feel that he was constantly doing favors for Xi Jinping in order to impress Xi Jinping. And you also write about a favor that he seemed to ask of China's President Xi involving the elections. What was it?
Well, it was stunningly clear, and I describe it in paraphrase in the book, because the government's preclearance, prepublication review process indicated that that's the way they wanted it. But there was a clear linkage between increased Chinese purchases of American agricultural products and Trump's reelection by benefiting farmers in key agricultural states whose electoral votes he needed.
He was asking for China to increase its farm purchases, U.S. farm purchases, in order for him, Trump, to get votes.
Yeah. Look, this was a long-standing discussion about picking up additional purchases of agricultural products by the Chinese to reduce the trade deficit, which was something that Trump focused on constantly. But I think it was clear from that and other comments that the real motivation was political. Now, again, every president has political considerations in mind, not just in national security decisions, but in domestic decisions as well.
The issue is whether the political factors are among those being considered or whether they are the driving, dominant force. And I think, really, that's why President Trump doesn't doesn't want to, didn't want this book published. It's not because he fears that foreign governments are going to read it. He's worried the American people are going to read it.
Robert Lighthizer, the trade negotiator, U.S. trade negotiator, when told about that revelation in your book, said, "It's completely crazy." That's a quote. And that he doesn't remember it happening. Was Lighthizer present when this conversation took place?
He was at that conversation in Osaka. I can tell you I feel very confident my recollection is correct, and that wasn't the only time it came up.
I want to ask about — oh, you mean the president of the United States asked for that kind of favor multiple times with Xi Jinping?
Well, they talked frequently about Trump's reelection, Xi Jinping saying that he wished that there weren't a two-term limit. And the president said, "Yeah, I've had people say to me that it's too bad about the two-term limit." I just thought this was the kind of back-and-forth with authoritarian leaders that did not reflect well on Donald Trump himself or the presidency or the United States.
Since your credibility has been questioned, I just want to note that throughout the book you give the dates and exact times of a lot of meetings. You give so many exact dates and times that the New York Times reviewer didn't like reading it for that reason. Were you writing from detailed contemporaneous notes when you put this book together?
Well, look, this, the book is my best recollection. It has gone through some editing because of prepublication review process, but it's a nearly 500 page book and there's a lot in there. I'd like to see what ultimately people specifically disagree with and what their characterisation is. And again, I'm sure this is something that others may want to write on, too. Ultimately, historians will be the judge of a lot of this. One day when the archives of the Chinese government are open to the people — they had as many observers on their side of the table as we did. They heard what the president said. I think they understood it.
But what I wonder is, at the end of the day, were you taking notes, taking home your notes, writing your recollections in real time, and then referring back to those notes when you wrote this book a year or two later?
All of the notes that I took were destroyed before I left the government.
So this is your recollection in every case?
I'm just going to leave it at that.
OK. Secretary of State Pompeo has also denied, I believe, a story in which you say that Pompeo passed you a note using a profanity to describe the president. Do you have anything to back up that other than your recollection?
No. Other than, we were sitting right next to each other at the table. And I think he wrote it on his notepad, put it in front of me. I nodded my head and he took it back.
You didn't write anything back going the other way?
No, no.
Was that kind of normal to be passing notes in class in a meeting where the president was talking?
Well, I think sometimes you pass notes directly to the president or have a word in his ear as the meeting is going on, of course, because in aid of the course of the discussion, you want to be prepared. And I think this is entirely normal. There's a small meeting and the conversation was predominantly almost exclusively between Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un. But no, I think that's perfectly normal.
Is the president fundamentally unfit for the job?
I don't think he's really competent to be president. It's put me in a very difficult dilemma. I voted for him in 2016 because I thought given the choice between him and Hillary Clinton, that that was the choice to make. But having seen him in operation for 17 months, I just cannot vote for him again. I'm planning to write in the name of a conservative Republican identity to be determined yet. But I will not be voting for Donald Trump and I will not be voting for Joe Biden.
You won't be voting for Joe Biden, why not?
Because I disagree with his policies. I've known him for many years. This is not a question of integrity, in my view. It's a question of philosophy. This is a very unhappy election for me. As I say, I face the same dilemma as I think many people did in 2016. And I chose at that time because I thought it was the best thing to do for the country to vote for Trump. But given my experience, I just can't see doing it again.
I am obliged to waste a few of our remaining seconds checking here, because The Daily Telegraph is just in the last few minutes reported, you said you're voting for Biden. I think you're telling me they're wrong.
That was — I don't know what the source of the confusion is there, but I can tell you that as I've said to you, I've said it in other interviews, that I'm neither voting for Biden nor Trump. I'm going to write into another name.
OK. A couple of other questions, ambassador. As it's become very clear, in recent months, critics of the president strongly disagree with you for not testifying at impeachment. I've heard scathing words about you when I mentioned that we're getting ready for this interview. Secretary of State Pompeo called you a traitor. Clearly, the supporters of the president are not happy with this book. Do you mind being hated by people on all sides?
Well, you know, it's not something I set out to do. Feelings are very strong on the question of Donald Trump. And I think that's one of the problems with the distortion of our politics, is that everybody's in their corners lined up and everything Trump did is right or everything Trump did is wrong. And if you don't side with the way I want to do things, your morality comes into question. I think people need to calm down.
In the case of the Democratic criticism, with respect to impeachment, I thought their strategy was fundamentally flawed. And with all due respect, they failed to convict the president. They said, well that nonetheless, having impeached him, it will determine the future. I think they're 180 degrees backwards. The fact he was acquitted will empower him, not deter him.
And as far as the Republican critics are concerned, we're going to have a conversation within the party and within the society as a whole after the November election, whether Trump wins or loses, about the future of the party. And I think we ought to reserve judgment until we get to that point and then have the conversation to make sure the American people don't mistake the conservative Republican philosophy as being identical with Donald Trump, because it is not.
I want to ask about one other thing, where you seek to correct the record from your point of view. You write of disbanding an office within the National Security Council that was focused on pandemics. That received a lot of criticism when the pandemic arrived. You argue that, in fact, a different part of the NSC took over that task and that the NSC worked fine and even gave an early warning of the pandemic. And then you write this: "The internal NSC structure was no more than the quiver of a butterfly's wings in the tsunami of Trump's chaos." Is that one way to summarize your whole time at the National Security Council?
Well, it would certainly not be far from the truth. I mean, specifically in the case of coronavirus, and I do think this is important, whether it's in the context of the 2020 election or how somebody runs the presidency, in January and really even beyond that, Trump simply did not want to hear anything bad about the situation in China. He didn't want anything that could be seen as critical of Xi Jinping. He didn't want to hear anything about the extent of the virus or whether the Chinese had lied about its effects or covered up the spread of the disease. And he didn't want to hear anything about negative effects on the Chinese economy that could undermine the trade negotiations, No. 1.
And No. 2, he did not want to hear anything that could suggest trouble for the American economy, which he saw as his, but not unrealistically, he saw as his ticket to reelection. And that empty chair in the Oval Office is one of the things I think that explains the early failure to respond adequately. Not bureaucratic structures in the Centers for Disease Control or the National Institutes of Health or the Department of Health and Human Services or the National Security Council staff or the State Department. The fault lies in the Oval Office.
Would you give any advice to people who are still in the administration and perhaps are thinking now what you thought at one time, that you could do some good, good in there despite the failings of the president, as you saw it?
You know, having been through this myself and having seen others go through it the before and after me, I can't really offer them advice. This is an intensely personal decision. But I do think this: I don't think people should be criticized for believing in good faith that hanging in there in tough circumstances somehow is an abdication of their morality or their philosophy. I think people tried hard to do things right. Some had better success than others. But I don't think that, you know, unless you've walked in their shoes, it's — that criticism is not fair. As each person comes out, you know, as the alumni society grows, and I think this will be part of the conversation we have post-November, whether Trump wins or loses.
Ambassador John Bolton is the author of The Room Where It Happened. Thanks so much, ambassador. Enjoyed talking with you.
Glad to be with you. Thanks for having me.