npr--2020-11-30--China Refuses To Apologize To Australia Over Official's Tweet Of Doctored Image

China Refuses To Apologize To Australia Over Official 's Tweet Of Doctored Image China is deepening its spat with Australia , refusing to apologize after a government official posted an altered image of an Australian soldier holding a knife to a young Afghan boy 's throat .
Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison had asked for an apology ; instead , a Chinese government representative excoriated Australia for its troops ' alleged brutality in Afghanistan .
`` The Australian side has been reacting so strongly to my colleague 's tweet , '' Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said during a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ?
Do they think that their merciless killing of Afghan civilians is justified but the condemnation of such ruthless brutality is not ?
Afghan lives matter ! ''
Hua was referring to a tweet by Zhao Lijian , a Foreign Ministry spokesperson known for his controversial statements , in which Zhao posted the heavily manipulated image and wrote , `` Shocked by murder of Afghan civilians & prisoners by Australian soldiers .
We strongly condemn such acts , & call for holding them accountable . ''
Zhao pinned the message to the top @ @ @ @ @ @ @ media company has obscured the image with a warning that it contains `` potentially sensitive content , '' but it did not remove the tweet , as Morrison says he requested .
Australia 's prime minister called the tweet repugnant , outrageous and offensive , adding , `` The Chinese Government should be totally ashamed of this post . ''
Morrison asked China to apologize , saying his government has conveyed its displeasure through China 's ambassador in Canberra , through foreign relations and trade channels and through Australia 's ambassador in Beijing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ committed by some Australian soldiers in Afghanistan '' and said Australia owes the Afghan people a formal apology .
She did not mention that the head of the Australian Defence Force , Gen. Angus Campbell , apologized this month for his soldiers ' conduct when he announced the findings of a years-long investigation into alleged wartime abuses and crimes .
`` I sincerely and unreservedly apologize for any wrongdoing by Australian soldiers , '' Campbell said when the report was released .
The military has also recommended a criminal investigation into 19 soldiers @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 39 Afghans .
Hua rebuffed Morrison 's request for an apology on Monday .
When she was asked about the flap , she criticized Australia anew and cited gruesome details from the report into alleged war crimes .
This is the latest in a string of disputes between Australia and China , whose relationship is now at its lowest level in years .
In April , Australian Foreign Minister Marise Payne called for an investigation into the origins of the coronavirus and the handling of the initial outbreak in Wuhan , China .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ countries ensued , with arguments spilling over into areas of trade and sovereignty .
Hua insisted the current dispute is not related to the bigger picture of the two countries ' rocky relationship , but she reiterated her criticisms of Australia , saying the country `` said and did the wrong things on issues related to Hong Kong and Xinjiang '' — two areas where China has faced its own accusations of human rights abuses this year .

China Refuses To Apologize To Australia Over Official's Tweet Of Doctored Image
Enlarge this image toggle caption Andy Wong/AP Andy Wong/AP
China is deepening its spat with Australia, refusing to apologize after a government official posted an altered image of an Australian soldier holding a knife to a young Afghan boy's throat. Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison had asked for an apology; instead, a Chinese government representative excoriated Australia for its troops' alleged brutality in Afghanistan.
"The Australian side has been reacting so strongly to my colleague's tweet," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said during a briefing Monday. "Why is that? Do they think that their merciless killing of Afghan civilians is justified but the condemnation of such ruthless brutality is not? Afghan lives matter!"
Hua was referring to a tweet by Zhao Lijian, a Foreign Ministry spokesperson known for his controversial statements, in which Zhao posted the heavily manipulated image and wrote, "Shocked by murder of Afghan civilians & prisoners by Australian soldiers. We strongly condemn such acts, &call for holding them accountable."
Zhao pinned the message to the top of his Twitter feed; the social media company has obscured the image with a warning that it contains "potentially sensitive content," but it did not remove the tweet, as Morrison says he requested.
Australia's prime minister called the tweet repugnant, outrageous and offensive, adding, "The Chinese Government should be totally ashamed of this post."
Morrison asked China to apologize, saying his government has conveyed its displeasure through China's ambassador in Canberra, through foreign relations and trade channels and through Australia's ambassador in Beijing.
Hua referred to "heinous crimes committed by some Australian soldiers in Afghanistan" and said Australia owes the Afghan people a formal apology. She did not mention that the head of the Australian Defence Force, Gen. Angus Campbell, apologized this month for his soldiers' conduct when he announced the findings of a years-long investigation into alleged wartime abuses and crimes.
"I sincerely and unreservedly apologize for any wrongdoing by Australian soldiers," Campbell said when the report was released. The military has also recommended a criminal investigation into 19 soldiers over their roles in the killing of 39 Afghans.
Hua rebuffed Morrison's request for an apology on Monday. When she was asked about the flap, she criticized Australia anew and cited gruesome details from the report into alleged war crimes.
This is the latest in a string of disputes between Australia and China, whose relationship is now at its lowest level in years. In April, Australian Foreign Minister Marise Payne called for an investigation into the origins of the coronavirus and the handling of the initial outbreak in Wuhan, China. Several rounds of counteraccusations between the two countries ensued, with arguments spilling over into areas of trade and sovereignty.
Hua insisted the current dispute is not related to the bigger picture of the two countries' rocky relationship, but she reiterated her criticisms of Australia, saying the country "said and did the wrong things on issues related to Hong Kong and Xinjiang" — two areas where China has faced its own accusations of human rights abuses this year.


npr--2020-11-30--Author Tracks The Life And Liberal Legacy Of Sen. Ted Kennedy

Author Tracks The Life And Liberal Legacy Of Sen. Ted Kennedy This is FRESH AIR .
I 'm Dave Davies , in today for Terry Gross .
Our guest today Neal Gabler is known , among other things , as a film critic and a historian of the entertainment world .
But his new book is about politics and the course of American liberalism over the past 50 years .
He 's written the first volume of a two-part biography of the late Senator Edward Kennedy .
Kennedy was the youngest of three charismatic brothers who ran for president in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ marked by notable political achievements but also by tragedy and scandal .
And while he never secured the Democratic nomination for president , he became a force in the Senate where he served for nearly 47 years , a proponent of liberal ideas until his death in 2009 .
Neal Gabler is the author of five previous books , including biographies of Walter Winchell , Walt Disney and Barbra Streisand .
He joins us from his home in Amagansett in Long Island to talk about his new book , `` Catching The Wind @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , 1932-1975 . ''
Well , Neal Gabler , welcome back to FRESH AIR .
NEAL GABLER : Thank you very much .
DAVIES : Why did Kennedy matter this much to you ?
I mean , it 's not a life unexamined .
Why did we need a new look at his achievements in life ?
GABLER : Well , Dave , I begin books not with a subject but with a question .
So when I set out to write this book , it was n't as if I was saying @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Kennedy biography .
It was that I was fixated on the issue of what happened to American liberalism , which I regard as the largest political question of the last 60 years , the one that changed the tectonic plates of American politics .
The way to go about answering that question was by looking at the preeminent liberal of the last 60 years .
It was Senator Edward Kennedy .
And I always look at these lives as metaphorical .
And so I thought by examining this life , by telling this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ story as well , which is the story of what happened to liberalism .
So that 's how I got to Edward Kennedy .
Of course , the life provides the narrative engine for the book , and liberalism provides the thematic text for the book .
DAVIES : And what an eventful life .
You know , Kennedy came on the scene in the early '60s , when liberalism was about to have its great moment .
I mean , we - you know , we had the Voting Rights Act and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Medicare , and the Civil Rights Act and Great Society legislation .
And he was there at the beginning .
That 's why the book is called `` Catching The Wind . ''
And it sort of seems the perfect metaphor for him coming in at that moment .
Before we talk about his life , I 'm interested in your thoughts on the state of liberalism today .
You know , looking at the election that we just experienced - you know , the repudiation of Donald Trump and yet him getting @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ago , the state of the Congress , the Supreme Court , state legislatures and the Democratic Party - where is liberalism now ?
GABLER : Well , liberalism years ago became really a kind of profanity .
I mean , people talk about the L word .
And I 'm not sure that that has changed entirely in this current environment .
Liberalism , at the time I write about at the beginning of Ted Kennedy 's career , was the prevailing ideology in America .
The book is subtitled `` Edward @ @ @ @ @ @ @ historians have called that period in the 1960s the liberal hour , when liberalism was at its ascendancy .
But over the 60 years , you know , since , you know , liberalism has declined mightily , and it certainly does n't have the potency now that it had then .
And I think liberals have to fight to get their ideas into the political marketplace .
So liberalism is still under siege .
It 's been a long , long siege .
It 's been a siege that probably begins in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ continued almost unabated until today .
DAVIES : Right .
And you say there are many causes for this , but part of the story is losing its moral authority .
GABLER : As I examined all of the various aspects of liberalism , my conclusion was that what liberalism had that conservatism , at that time , did not have was moral authority and that liberalism sustained itself not on the basis that it was providing all sorts of economic benefits for Americans - particularly white Americans - but that it had @ @ @ @ @ @ @ many Americans subscribed .
In a sense , though this may be overstating things , it was the right thing to do .
Liberalism promoted the right causes .
Liberalism created community .
Liberalism worked for the voiceless and the powerless and the disenfranchised and the marginalized .
And what really contributed to the decline of liberalism , in my estimation , was not , as many historians say , death by a thousand cuts so that it essentially bled to death .
But it was a larger thing that subsumed all of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sword cut .
And that was that liberalism was stripped of its moral authority .
That 's a very complicated process .
It 's the process I discuss in this book .
And Ted Kennedy contributed to that loss of moral authority through his own behavior .
But liberalism had moral authority .
It sustained it .
And liberalism lost more authority , and that is how I think it lost a lot of the power that it had in this society .
DAVIES : In 1962 , Ted Kennedy comes to the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ His brother is president , having won the election in 1960 .
What was his reputation in Washington , then , to the extent that he had one ?
GABLER : His reputation in Washington was that he had gotten to the Senate - and this is not an entirely wrong characterization - because he was a Kennedy and because his brother was president of the United States and his father was one of the wealthiest men in America .
And at 30 years of age , that 's how he got into @ @ @ @ @ @ @ nephew of the Senate of the - excuse me - of the House majority leader , John McCormack .
So it was a kind of battle of Massachusetts family dynasties .
And Ted was completely ill-equipped by experience to be a senator .
Not only was he only 30 years old , but he had had no experience in elective office .
He was an assistant D.A .
in Suffolk County .
So he comes to the Senate with the idea that , you know , he 's kind of - the Kennedy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Senate and he 's going to be a show horse .
He 's going to be a guy who really is n't there to work very hard but to luxuriate in the idea of being a senator rather than working at being a senator .
And I have a chapter in the book that I call The Least because the expectations of Ted Kennedy were always the least .
He was the least of the Kennedys , and he regarded himself that way .
So this was n't only an external judgment .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ his brothers were always much greater than he .
He was the least .
DAVIES : Right .
And the Senate that he went into was a different kind of body then .
I mean , you know , seniority ruled .
A lot of the committee chairs were these Southern Democrats that had been there for decades , and they , you know , ruled with an iron fists .
Your legislation did n't get anywhere unless they said so .
He set about learning this .
Tell us what his approach @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what his mother called a ninth child 's talent .
And what Rose Kennedy meant by that was , you know , he was - he knew how to ingratiate himself .
He understood deference .
In the Kennedy family , he was the kind of jester .
He was a pet .
He was actually literally an afterthought .
The Kennedy family had named their yacht The 10 of Us , never expecting that there would be an 11th of them .
But lo and behold , Ted Kennedy arrives , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he arrives as , you know , someone who is , you know , again , the least in the family as he was the least almost everywhere else .
But that ninth child 's talent became a very valuable tool in the institution of the Senate , which Ted Kennedy treated very much as he treated his own family .
He was extremely deferential .
He was a kind of jester in the Senate not just in the sense that he was a joke but in the sense that he knew how @ @ @ @ @ @ @ He was - he ingratiated himself in the Senate .
And so when he came there , the other senators realized something that they had no expectation of realizing , which was that they liked Ted Kennedy .
He was likable .
And he understood his role in the Senate .
But there was something else as well , and that is Ted Kennedy worked very , very hard .
And that was also something that was not expected by the Senate bulls and the other leaders of the Senate .
But Ted @ @ @ @ @ @ @ who could gain the respect of his Senate elders by showing how hard he would work , and he did .
DAVIES : Maybe you could give us an example of Ted Kennedy using his mastery of relationships and knowledge of the Senate to make incremental gains and advance a progressive agenda later on , when , you know , Republicans ruled the Senate .
GABLER : Well , let me give you an example of the - one of the most important pieces of legislation that Ted Kennedy passed , which was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ One of the things that Ted Kennedy always did when he introduced a piece of legislation is he said to his staff , find me a Republican , meaning a Republican who would co-sponsor the bill .
He was n't just there to introduce a bill .
He was there to get a bill passed .
And he understood , particularly when the Republicans ruled the Senate , that he needed a Republican co-sponsor .
In the case of CHIP , Children 's Health Insurance , he decided that he would recruit Orrin @ @ @ @ @ @ @ could recruit Orrin Hatch - to co-sponsor the program .
And he did a couple of things that were very interesting .
One , there was a member of Ted Kennedy 's staff by the name of Nick Littlefield who had , in a previous life , been a Broadway singer .
And Orrin Hatch was a composer .
So he would bring Littlefield to Hatch 's office and have Littlefield sing Orrin Hatch compositions , which very much ingratiated him ( laughter ) to Orrin Hatch .
But the other thing he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Hatch would probably have no particular interest in passing another piece of government legislation , even one that would help children .
And the whole idea of CHIP was to assist children whose parents made too much money to qualify for Medicaid but not enough money to provide health insurance .
So what he did is he asked Hatch , a conservative Republican from Utah and a Mormon , if he would join his cause .
And the way he brought Hatch into it was to say that Hatch , who was very @ @ @ @ @ @ @ much against smoking , that the - that CHIP would be financed by a steep tax on tobacco .
This gave Hatch a reason to join Ted 's cause .
It would discourage tobacco smoking .
And Ted got a co-sponsor for his bill .
DAVIES : We need to take a break here .
Let me reintroduce you .
We 're speaking with Neal Gabler .
His new book is the first volume of a two-part biography .
It 's titled `` Catching The Wind : Edward Kennedy And The Liberal Hour @ @ @ @ @ @ @ our conversation after a short break .
This is FRESH AIR .
DAVIES : This is FRESH AIR , and we 're speaking with journalist and historian Neal Gabler about his new book , the first of a two-volume biography of the late Senator Edward Kennedy and the course of liberalism in American politics .
It 's titled `` Catching The Wind . ''
So when Ted Kennedy first gets into the Senate - I mean , he 's 30 years old when he begins , and he 's not there two years @ @ @ @ @ @ @ us where he was when his brother Jack , the president , was assassinated in Dallas .
GABLER : Ted Kennedy was presiding over the Senate .
Now , to understand how this works - in the Senate , freshman Senate are usually put in the role of presiding over the Senate .
It 's a thankless task .
But when the news came into the Senate , Ted Kennedy was on the dais , presiding over a debate .
And he was approached , told that something had happened .
There are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was led down from the dais out into the lobby .
And depending on which story you believe , he either read the account of his brother being shot on an AP wire service or he was told by one of the Senate officers about - that , obviously , triggered a whole mayhem as he then raced around the city trying to get a phone so that he could access his brother Robert to find out what had happened .
But the phones were all dead in Washington because after the news @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , they did n't know whether he 'd been assassinated or not - that news spread throughout and clogged up all the phone lines .
So Ted spent the next few hours racing around Washington , seeing if he could find active phone lines to contact Bobby to find out what had happened .
DAVIES : He eventually finds Bobby .
Bobby , of course , was deeply devoted to his brother Jack .
He served as his attorney general .
How was Ted Kennedy 's reaction to this tragedy different from Bobby @ @ @ @ @ @ @ not only devoted to Jack Kennedy , but in some ways , he lived vicariously through his brother .
He was an adjunct to his brother .
He served his brother in every possible way .
And when John Kennedy died , it was not as if a piece of him had died , but as if , you know , he himself had died .
And he was immobilized by grief .
There was no question that Bobby Kennedy absolutely ceased to function .
He ceased to function .
And that put @ @ @ @ @ @ @ brothers , the burden of trying to carry the family forward .
So Ted did n't have , if one wants to call it the luxury of tragedy , of luxuriating in his own tragedy , Ted had to move forward , and he did .
And he did .
But it - this was - one of the things that I think one has to understand about the Kennedy family , and I do n't think that it 's been discussed enough , but it 's something that Patrick Kennedy , Ted @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And he said , you know , of all the tragedies , you know , we see this kind of stoicism that - to which the Kennedys react to tragedy .
And we all sit there in a certain amount of admiration that they persevere .
They keep going .
But he said , in some ways , that 's misleading because the Kennedy family all suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder .
And though Ted persevered , he definitely suffered from this post-traumatic stress disorder , which became a kind of Kennedy - @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : So after Jack dies , Lyndon Johnson becomes the president - no friend of the Kennedy family , really , particularly had a hostile relationship with Bobby Kennedy .
And now Ted is in the Senate , and Lyndon Johnson surprises a lot of the Kennedys by , you know , aggressively taking up the civil rights legislation that Jack Kennedy had endorsed but had never gotten very far with and proceeded on that .
There was a Civil Rights Act .
There was a Voting Rights Act .
There was Medicare @ @ @ @ @ @ @ know , what came to be known as Great Society legislation .
What was Ted Kennedy 's role in any of this ?
GABLER : Well , as you pointed out , Lyndon Johnson and Bobby Kennedy were absolutely at loggerheads , in large part because Bobby felt that Johnson was really insincere when it came to liberalism and that he would not carry forth John Kennedy 's agenda .
Turned out , of course , he was wrong , but that did n't dissuade Bobby Kennedy from disliking Lyndon Johnson .
And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ felt that they were condescending to him and that they did n't respect him .
But Ted Kennedy was different because Ted Kennedy was not a hater .
Ted Kennedy was an ingratiator , as I 'd said earlier .
So Lyndon Johnson and Ted Kennedy had a different kind of relationship .
Lyndon Johnson tried to work Ted Kennedy .
And , in fact , as Ted was the first to admit , he tried to separate the brothers , thinking that he might be able to get Ted to form some @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
But Ted also said that that was an impossibility .
No one could ever divide the Kennedys .
Nevertheless , Ted , unlike Bobby , was willing to work with Johnson and did work with Johnson .
He did not have that antipathy toward Johnson that Bobby had .
And so he worked on the Civil Rights Act of '64 , and he worked on the Voting Rights Act of '65 .
And he worked with Johnson even on the war in Vietnam .
Bobby broke with Johnson relatively early , but @ @ @ @ @ @ @ almost unconscionably , to support Johnson 's prosecution of the war in Vietnam for a fairly long time , again , even as Bobby had turned against Johnson .
DAVIES : Neal Gabler 's book is the first volume of a two-part biography .
It 's titled `` Catching The Wind : Edward Kennedy And The Liberal Hour , 1932-1975 . ''
He 'll be back to talk more after this short break .
I 'm Dave Davies .
This is FRESH AIR .
DAVIES : This is FRESH AIR .
We 're @ @ @ @ @ @ @ about his new book .
It 's the first of a two-volume biography of the late Senator Edward Kennedy and the course of liberalism in American politics .
It 's titled `` Catching The Wind : Edward Kennedy And The Liberal Hour , 1932-1975 . ''
Ted Kennedy lost another brother .
Robert Kennedy was assassinated after winning the California primary in 1968 as part of his presidential campaign .
So that was another deep tragedy for the Kennedy family .
But the following year in 1969 was an incident which would probably @ @ @ @ @ @ @ moral authority and reputation than anything else in his life .
This was the Chappaquiddick incident .
I mean , you know , a lot of people remember this but may not remember the details .
Some younger listeners may not recall it , know of it at all .
Do you want to just give us the bare outlines ?
What happened in this episode ?
GABLER : Well , this was the summer after Bobby Kennedy 's assassination .
And Ted was in a dire state .
I described the state @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Kennedy 's assassination .
At this point , Ted Kennedy was in a similar state .
He was asked to come to Chappaquiddick off of Martha 's Vineyard to participate in a meeting of Bobby Kennedy 's - a group of Bobby Kennedy 's former staffers .
They were known as the Boiler Room Girls because they managed the room in which state delegations were monitored .
He went there for a kind of wake for Bobby .
He also went there to participate in a regatta , in a race .
He @ @ @ @ @ @ @ happened that evening , the evening of the party on Chappaquiddick Island is one of the Boiler Room Girls named Mary Jo Kopechne and Ted Kennedy went off in a car .
Ted had said that they were going to go back to the mainland , back to Martha 's Vineyard , to Edgartown .
But on the way back , Ted took a wrong turn , went off a very narrow bridge over a pond called Poucha Pond , and the car sailed off the bridge , overturned into the water .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Ted managed to free himself from the car through a window , then said that he dove back toward the car to try and remove Mary Jo Kopechne .
But he tried repeatedly , and the current was very , very strong , and he could not pull her out of the car .
Eventually , Mary Jo Kopechne died .
She drowned in the car .
As a womanizer and even as a drinker - so there were those elements .
Was he drunk ?
Were he and Mary Jo Kopechne @ @ @ @ @ @ @ tryst ?
Which seems highly unlikely , what everyone thinks of Ted Kennedy - highly unlikely that Mary Jo Kopechne would have done that .
She was a strict Catholic , and it impugns her reputation .
But also , to be fair to Ted Kennedy in this instance , it would be very unlikely that Ted Kennedy would have gone off with one of Bobby 's Boiler Room Girls .
It 's just not something he would have done .
Now , Ted did not report the accident for another 10 hours @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for that , but he himself said that none of them were exculpable , that he could n't exculpate himself from this .
And that really was the incident of Chappaquiddick that had all sorts of ramifications politically , for him personally and for the political cultural generally .
DAVIES : Right .
Right .
I mean , after the accident - it was the middle of the night , and he actually plunged into the water and swam across this little area to the - Edgartown , went to his hotel , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sleep , got up in the morning and spent a couple of hours .
And by the time he reported the accident , you know , the car had already been spotted , and I believe they had already identified it as his and rescue had retrieved Mary Jo Kopechne 's body .
He would eventually plead guilty to leaving the scene of an accident and get a suspended sentence .
And , you know , it left the feeling that , you know , he got a treatment that no one else @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was the impact on him , his image , his career ?
GABLER : The impact was that , given Ted Kennedy 's reputation - he had a reputation to his brother .
But , you know , Ted 's reputation was certainly impugned and did n't need much more impugning .
And it was almost certainly the death of any chance that Edward Kennedy would have of being president of the United States .
Prior to that accident , it was assumed that Ted Kennedy would be running against Richard Nixon in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that he would have a very good chance of being elected president .
And if not then , then in 1976 .
But that doomed his chances .
It also did something else .
There 's a line that Walter Mondale - who 's then-senator from Minnesota - said and I think it 's absolutely true .
He said , when Ted went over that bridge , he took liberalism with him , because if we talk about , again , the relationship between liberalism and moral authority and if we look at @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of liberalism , then when Ted Kennedy went over that bridge , he took liberalism with him because he took the moral authority over that bridge with him .
DAVIES : Let me reintroduce you again .
We 're going to take another break here .
We are speaking with Neal Gabler .
His new book is the first volume of a two-part biography titled `` Catching The Wind : Edward Kennedy And The Liberal Hour , 1932-1975 . ''
We 'll talk more after a break .
This is FRESH AIR .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ And we 're speaking with Neal Gabler , a historian and journalist , about his new book , the first of a two-volume biography of the late Senator Edward Kennedy .
It 's called `` Catching The Wind . ''
There 's so much in here about Kennedy 's legislative efforts and accomplishments , him being involved in campaign finance reform and in the - you know , kind of in the background of the Watergate investigation .
One thing that was new to me - I mean , I knew that health @ @ @ @ @ @ @ decades .
I did n't know that Congress took a serious run at health care reform in the second Nixon term - President Nixon .
Just briefly , what happened ?
How close did we come to getting a real health care bill then ?
GABLER : We came very close .
And the reason was that Richard Nixon needed one .
He was reeling from the Watergate investigation .
Ted Kennedy , from 1969 , had been angling to get a national health insurance bill .
And here you have these two @ @ @ @ @ @ @ because of Chappaquiddick and because of his own interest in passing some health care bill and Nixon because - largely because of Watergate , seeing if they could join forces to find some kind of modus vivendi to pass a national health insurance bill .
And Kennedy also had recruited Wilbur Mills , who was the head of the House Ways and Means Committee , to see if we could get Mills to also assist with advancing a national health care bill in the House .
So we were bringing all of these @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was bringing Nixon and Wilbur Mills , and of course he had himself and all the liberals on one side , and they were all meeting .
And it 's a very complicated story of how many parts there were in this .
But because of Watergate , the labor leaders and other liberal leaders felt , you know , Nixon needs this desperately .
But Watergate is also going to tumble Nixon and throw him out of office , and we will have a greater opportunity to pass a national health care @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and a Democratic president .
And so Kennedy tried to argue with them .
Kennedy tried to tell them that it was n't going to change in the way they thought it was going to change .
And he took out the congressional director .
And he went down every member of the Senate Finance Committee and convinced them - tried to convince them , not successfully , that all of these guys were going to be there .
These guys were going to win their reelections , that the committee was n't @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they thought they were going to have some better chance of passing this , they were wrong .
And they considered Kennedy - and they called him this - they said , you 're a traitor .
You 're a traitor to the cause .
But eventually , it just blew up .
But they came within an eyelash .
And Kennedy always said that the greatest regret of his career was not sitting down with Nixon and getting a national health care bill through the Congress because with Nixon and Kennedy working @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Wilbur Mills , he thought it was a doable thing .
But in the end , it was n't doable .
DAVIES : Would this have been a single-payer national health system ?
GABLER : It would have been a system - no , it would not have been single-payer .
It actually would have been a national health care system that would not be that dissimilar from Obamacare .
It had employer mandates .
That was what Nixon was proposing .
Kennedy always understood .
You know , we always think of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ideologue .
But Kennedy was a pragmatist , always a pragmatist .
The health care bill that he proposed year after year after year after year , the Health Security Act , was a single-payer system .
But Kennedy also understood that you put that on the table and then you have to retreat from that to get a bill that will actually pass .
That 's how Kennedy legislated .
And - so , no , it was n't a single-payer bill that would finally have emerged from this compromise , but @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Kennedy could then build on , which is what he always sought to do .
You know , let 's get what we can get - let 's get the half a loaf , and then I 'm going to bake the full loaf .
But they could n't get the half a loaf .
DAVIES : You know , after the Chappaquiddick scandal in 1969 , the next presidential election was 1972 .
And it was n't out of the question that he would run and certainly not out of question four @ @ @ @ @ @ @ In the end , he did n't in either case .
But he did go around the country giving speeches and , you know , raising people 's hopes .
And what 's interesting is that he was still beloved by so many people .
Right ?
I mean , he got amazing receptions .
GABLER : The Kennedy brand is a strong brand .
And Ted , you know , used that brand .
You know , here is a thing , also , about Ted that I think is interesting .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ Robert Kennedy forward into Ted Kennedy , and the Ted Kennedy becomes a sort of liberal icon because he bears that legacy from John and Robert .
But I think there 's another process at work here .
We read Ted back into Robert and John .
John was nowhere near as liberal as Ted Kennedy .
And I think one could make the argument - and I would make it - that even Robert Kennedy , who was much more liberal than John and , in fact , used John 's death @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , is also a beneficiary of Ted 's liberalism .
You know , Ted became the icon of the powerless .
He enjoyed that role .
And it became a more important role as Republicans took over the Congress and as Ronald Reagan became president in 1980 and then , you know , George Bush - George H.W .
Bush and later George W. Bush , Ted was that flickering flame that kept liberalism alive .
And for those who believed in the things in which Ted Kennedy believed , which was an @ @ @ @ @ @ @ needed help , you know , he remained .
He remained the outstanding figure of the left .
DAVIES : You know , the last story that you tell in the book is one in which an element of the old New Deal coalition , the progressive coalition , which was , you know , white , ethnic , working-class voters who had supported , you know , the New Deal and supported John Kennedy - that Ted Kennedy lost them really over the issue of integrating schools in Boston , which , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , included busing of students - both Black students and white students - into different neighborhoods .
And it was , you know , passionately opposed by a lot of Irish - in a lot of Irish American communities .
Ted Kennedy did n't exactly endorse this , but he believed in upholding the law and embracing the principle of integration .
What kind of encounters did he have with these constituents who were so furious at him ?
GABLER : Well , Dave , you 're exactly right .
I mean , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and a hard place .
Ted Kennedy is advocating for integration because African Americans , he felt , deserved it .
But on the other hand , those very supporters of his - the ethnic Irish and Italians of Boston are feeling that this is a zero-sum game and they 're losing it , that integration comes at their expense .
And though Ted 's endorsement was somewhat lukewarm , he could n't turn his back on African Americans .
And he - in 1974 , when the integration plan , a court-ordered @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Ted appeared at an antibusing rally .
He was not invited ; he just appeared , hoping that he might restore peace between the sides , hoping that he might use the Kennedy magic .
But the Kennedy magic had vanished at this point .
And what happens then and in a subsequent appearance that he makes , where a group of white Bostonians gathers outside , is that Ted Kennedy is assaulted .
And in the second instance , which happened outside in Quincy , Mass .
- the first was a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ there ; the second was in Quincy - he has to run for his life .
So he is being chased .
He is being pelted .
He is being kicked .
He is being , you know , hit .
He is being chased down into the Boston subway and has to jump onto a train while his aides bar the gates because these people are going to go after him and try and physically destroy him .
DAVIES : And these were people who had been ardent supporters of his for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Kennedy supporters .
These are people who love the Kennedys .
But in a way , this is a harbinger of the kind of thing that we 're seeing in America in present-day America .
This was the core of the New Deal coalition .
But when the Kennedys began working , when Ted Kennedy began working for integration , they could n't countenance that .
They turned on him .
They felt that he had been a traitor to their cause and that he had taken the side of African Americans against @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a harbinger of what was to happen in America , generally , which is why I end volume one with that story - because the notion of the rise of conservatism and the end of liberalism is somehow typified by that incident or those two incidents - the one in Boston , the one in Quincy - in which Ted Kennedy , the liberal icon , is chased by the very people who had always supported him and his brothers .
DAVIES : You know , Ted being the affable guy , the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ working-class bar , how did he react to this ?
GABLER : He was shaken .
He was shaken because he understood .
He understood their grievance .
It was n't as if Ted Kennedy was some sort of ivory-tower liberal who did n't get it .
He got it .
It just felt - he just felt that , you know , it was something he could n't embrace .
He could n't embrace letting the schools remain segregated .
But he was so shaken .
After that rally on the plaza @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was holding a cup of water and his hand was just palsied .
His face was flush .
He knew what had happened .
He knew - he understood the forces that were being summoned against him .
He understood all of that .
But he was powerless to deal with it because there was no easy way out , as there was no easy way out now .
That is - you know , these are the forces of contention .
Either you embrace , you know , the forces of progressivism @ @ @ @ @ @ @ wants to call it , or you do n't , or you feel that there 's a backlash against it .
And Ted Kennedy was in the middle of that battle and suffered greatly for it , both personally and politically .
DAVIES : Well , Neal Gabler , thank you so much for speaking with us .
GABLER : Thank you so very much , Dave .
I enjoyed it .
DAVIES : Neal Gabler 's new book is the first volume of a two-part biography .
It 's titled `` Catching @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Liberal Hour , 1932-1975 . ''
The second volume called `` Against The Wind : Edward Kennedy And The Rise Of Conservatism '' will appear in October of 2021 .
Coming up , Justin Chang reviews `` Happiest Season , '' a new romantic comedy starring Kristen Stewart and Mackenzie Davis as a lesbian couple keeping their relationship a secret at a family Christmas gathering .
This is FRESH AIR .

Author Tracks The Life And Liberal Legacy Of Sen. Ted Kennedy
DAVE DAVIES, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Dave Davies, in today for Terry Gross. Our guest today Neal Gabler is known, among other things, as a film critic and a historian of the entertainment world. But his new book is about politics and the course of American liberalism over the past 50 years. He's written the first volume of a two-part biography of the late Senator Edward Kennedy. Kennedy was the youngest of three charismatic brothers who ran for president in the 20th century. His life was marked by notable political achievements but also by tragedy and scandal. And while he never secured the Democratic nomination for president, he became a force in the Senate where he served for nearly 47 years, a proponent of liberal ideas until his death in 2009.
Neal Gabler is the author of five previous books, including biographies of Walter Winchell, Walt Disney and Barbra Streisand. He joins us from his home in Amagansett in Long Island to talk about his new book, "Catching The Wind: Edward Kennedy And The Liberal Hour, 1932-1975."
Well, Neal Gabler, welcome back to FRESH AIR.
NEAL GABLER: Thank you very much.
DAVIES: Why did Kennedy matter this much to you? I mean, it's not a life unexamined. Why did we need a new look at his achievements in life?
GABLER: Well, Dave, I begin books not with a subject but with a question. So when I set out to write this book, it wasn't as if I was saying, I have to write an Edward Kennedy biography. It was that I was fixated on the issue of what happened to American liberalism, which I regard as the largest political question of the last 60 years, the one that changed the tectonic plates of American politics.
The way to go about answering that question was by looking at the preeminent liberal of the last 60 years. It was Senator Edward Kennedy. And I always look at these lives as metaphorical. And so I thought by examining this life, by telling this story, I would be telling another story as well, which is the story of what happened to liberalism. So that's how I got to Edward Kennedy. Of course, the life provides the narrative engine for the book, and liberalism provides the thematic text for the book.
DAVIES: And what an eventful life. You know, Kennedy came on the scene in the early '60s, when liberalism was about to have its great moment. I mean, we - you know, we had the Voting Rights Act and Social - and, you know, Medicare, and the Civil Rights Act and Great Society legislation. And he was there at the beginning. That's why the book is called "Catching The Wind." And it sort of seems the perfect metaphor for him coming in at that moment. Before we talk about his life, I'm interested in your thoughts on the state of liberalism today. You know, looking at the election that we just experienced - you know, the repudiation of Donald Trump and yet him getting more votes than he did four years ago, the state of the Congress, the Supreme Court, state legislatures and the Democratic Party - where is liberalism now?
GABLER: Well, liberalism years ago became really a kind of profanity. I mean, people talk about the L word. And I'm not sure that that has changed entirely in this current environment. Liberalism, at the time I write about at the beginning of Ted Kennedy's career, was the prevailing ideology in America. The book is subtitled "Edward Kennedy And The Liberal Hour" because historians have called that period in the 1960s the liberal hour, when liberalism was at its ascendancy.
But over the 60 years, you know, since, you know, liberalism has declined mightily, and it certainly doesn't have the potency now that it had then. And I think liberals have to fight to get their ideas into the political marketplace. So liberalism is still under siege. It's been a long, long siege. It's been a siege that probably begins in the late 1960s, and it's continued almost unabated until today.
DAVIES: Right. And you say there are many causes for this, but part of the story is losing its moral authority.
GABLER: As I examined all of the various aspects of liberalism, my conclusion was that what liberalism had that conservatism, at that time, did not have was moral authority and that liberalism sustained itself not on the basis that it was providing all sorts of economic benefits for Americans - particularly white Americans - but that it had this sense of moral authority to which many Americans subscribed. In a sense, though this may be overstating things, it was the right thing to do. Liberalism promoted the right causes. Liberalism created community. Liberalism worked for the voiceless and the powerless and the disenfranchised and the marginalized.
And what really contributed to the decline of liberalism, in my estimation, was not, as many historians say, death by a thousand cuts so that it essentially bled to death. But it was a larger thing that subsumed all of these others, a kind of samurai sword cut. And that was that liberalism was stripped of its moral authority. That's a very complicated process. It's the process I discuss in this book. And Ted Kennedy contributed to that loss of moral authority through his own behavior. But liberalism had moral authority. It sustained it. And liberalism lost more authority, and that is how I think it lost a lot of the power that it had in this society.
DAVIES: In 1962, Ted Kennedy comes to the Senate, just 30 years old. His brother is president, having won the election in 1960. What was his reputation in Washington, then, to the extent that he had one?
GABLER: His reputation in Washington was that he had gotten to the Senate - and this is not an entirely wrong characterization - because he was a Kennedy and because his brother was president of the United States and his father was one of the wealthiest men in America. And at 30 years of age, that's how he got into the Senate running a race against the nephew of the Senate of the - excuse me - of the House majority leader, John McCormack. So it was a kind of battle of Massachusetts family dynasties.
And Ted was completely ill-equipped by experience to be a senator. Not only was he only 30 years old, but he had had no experience in elective office. He was an assistant D.A. in Suffolk County. So he comes to the Senate with the idea that, you know, he's kind of - the Kennedy family has bought his way into the Senate and he's going to be a show horse. He's going to be a guy who really isn't there to work very hard but to luxuriate in the idea of being a senator rather than working at being a senator.
And I have a chapter in the book that I call The Least because the expectations of Ted Kennedy were always the least. He was the least of the Kennedys, and he regarded himself that way. So this wasn't only an external judgment. It was his own internal judgment that his brothers were always much greater than he. He was the least.
DAVIES: Right. And the Senate that he went into was a different kind of body then. I mean, you know, seniority ruled. A lot of the committee chairs were these Southern Democrats that had been there for decades, and they, you know, ruled with an iron fists. Your legislation didn't get anywhere unless they said so. He set about learning this. Tell us what his approach was.
GABLER: Ted Kennedy had what his mother called a ninth child's talent. And what Rose Kennedy meant by that was, you know, he was - he knew how to ingratiate himself. He understood deference. In the Kennedy family, he was the kind of jester. He was a pet. He was actually literally an afterthought. The Kennedy family had named their yacht The 10 of Us, never expecting that there would be an 11th of them. But lo and behold, Ted Kennedy arrives, and he arrives as an afterthought. And he arrives as, you know, someone who is, you know, again, the least in the family as he was the least almost everywhere else.
But that ninth child's talent became a very valuable tool in the institution of the Senate, which Ted Kennedy treated very much as he treated his own family. He was extremely deferential. He was a kind of jester in the Senate not just in the sense that he was a joke but in the sense that he knew how to jolly up the other senators. He was - he ingratiated himself in the Senate.
And so when he came there, the other senators realized something that they had no expectation of realizing, which was that they liked Ted Kennedy. He was likable. And he understood his role in the Senate. But there was something else as well, and that is Ted Kennedy worked very, very hard. And that was also something that was not expected by the Senate bulls and the other leaders of the Senate. But Ted Kennedy wanted to establish himself as someone who could gain the respect of his Senate elders by showing how hard he would work, and he did.
DAVIES: Maybe you could give us an example of Ted Kennedy using his mastery of relationships and knowledge of the Senate to make incremental gains and advance a progressive agenda later on, when, you know, Republicans ruled the Senate.
GABLER: Well, let me give you an example of the - one of the most important pieces of legislation that Ted Kennedy passed, which was the Children's Health Insurance Program. One of the things that Ted Kennedy always did when he introduced a piece of legislation is he said to his staff, find me a Republican, meaning a Republican who would co-sponsor the bill. He wasn't just there to introduce a bill. He was there to get a bill passed. And he understood, particularly when the Republicans ruled the Senate, that he needed a Republican co-sponsor. In the case of CHIP, Children's Health Insurance, he decided that he would recruit Orrin Hatch - or to see if he could recruit Orrin Hatch - to co-sponsor the program.
And he did a couple of things that were very interesting. One, there was a member of Ted Kennedy's staff by the name of Nick Littlefield who had, in a previous life, been a Broadway singer. And Orrin Hatch was a composer. So he would bring Littlefield to Hatch's office and have Littlefield sing Orrin Hatch compositions, which very much ingratiated him (laughter) to Orrin Hatch. But the other thing he did was that he knew that Orrin Hatch would probably have no particular interest in passing another piece of government legislation, even one that would help children. And the whole idea of CHIP was to assist children whose parents made too much money to qualify for Medicaid but not enough money to provide health insurance.
So what he did is he asked Hatch, a conservative Republican from Utah and a Mormon, if he would join his cause. And the way he brought Hatch into it was to say that Hatch, who was very much - as a Mormon, very much against smoking, that the - that CHIP would be financed by a steep tax on tobacco. This gave Hatch a reason to join Ted's cause. It would discourage tobacco smoking. And Ted got a co-sponsor for his bill.
DAVIES: We need to take a break here. Let me reintroduce you. We're speaking with Neal Gabler. His new book is the first volume of a two-part biography. It's titled "Catching The Wind: Edward Kennedy And The Liberal Hour, 1932-1975." We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF SLOWBERN'S "WHEN WAR WAS KING")
DAVIES: This is FRESH AIR, and we're speaking with journalist and historian Neal Gabler about his new book, the first of a two-volume biography of the late Senator Edward Kennedy and the course of liberalism in American politics. It's titled "Catching The Wind."
So when Ted Kennedy first gets into the Senate - I mean, he's 30 years old when he begins, and he's not there two years before tragedy strikes his life. Tell us where he was when his brother Jack, the president, was assassinated in Dallas.
GABLER: Ted Kennedy was presiding over the Senate. Now, to understand how this works - in the Senate, freshman Senate are usually put in the role of presiding over the Senate. It's a thankless task. But when the news came into the Senate, Ted Kennedy was on the dais, presiding over a debate. And he was approached, told that something had happened.
There are various versions of this story. He was led down from the dais out into the lobby. And depending on which story you believe, he either read the account of his brother being shot on an AP wire service or he was told by one of the Senate officers about - that, obviously, triggered a whole mayhem as he then raced around the city trying to get a phone so that he could access his brother Robert to find out what had happened.
But the phones were all dead in Washington because after the news of the shooting - at that point, they didn't know whether he'd been assassinated or not - that news spread throughout and clogged up all the phone lines. So Ted spent the next few hours racing around Washington, seeing if he could find active phone lines to contact Bobby to find out what had happened.
DAVIES: He eventually finds Bobby. Bobby, of course, was deeply devoted to his brother Jack. He served as his attorney general. How was Ted Kennedy's reaction to this tragedy different from Bobby Kennedy?
GABLER: Bobby Kennedy was not only devoted to Jack Kennedy, but in some ways, he lived vicariously through his brother. He was an adjunct to his brother. He served his brother in every possible way. And when John Kennedy died, it was not as if a piece of him had died, but as if, you know, he himself had died. And he was immobilized by grief. There was no question that Bobby Kennedy absolutely ceased to function. He ceased to function. And that put on Ted, the youngest of the brothers, the burden of trying to carry the family forward. So Ted didn't have, if one wants to call it the luxury of tragedy, of luxuriating in his own tragedy, Ted had to move forward, and he did. And he did.
But it - this was - one of the things that I think one has to understand about the Kennedy family, and I don't think that it's been discussed enough, but it's something that Patrick Kennedy, Ted's son, said to me. And he said, you know, of all the tragedies, you know, we see this kind of stoicism that - to which the Kennedys react to tragedy. And we all sit there in a certain amount of admiration that they persevere. They keep going. But he said, in some ways, that's misleading because the Kennedy family all suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder. And though Ted persevered, he definitely suffered from this post-traumatic stress disorder, which became a kind of Kennedy - endemic to the Kennedy family.
DAVIES: So after Jack dies, Lyndon Johnson becomes the president - no friend of the Kennedy family, really, particularly had a hostile relationship with Bobby Kennedy. And now Ted is in the Senate, and Lyndon Johnson surprises a lot of the Kennedys by, you know, aggressively taking up the civil rights legislation that Jack Kennedy had endorsed but had never gotten very far with and proceeded on that. There was a Civil Rights Act. There was a Voting Rights Act. There was Medicare - a whole series of, you know, what came to be known as Great Society legislation. What was Ted Kennedy's role in any of this?
GABLER: Well, as you pointed out, Lyndon Johnson and Bobby Kennedy were absolutely at loggerheads, in large part because Bobby felt that Johnson was really insincere when it came to liberalism and that he would not carry forth John Kennedy's agenda. Turned out, of course, he was wrong, but that didn't dissuade Bobby Kennedy from disliking Lyndon Johnson. And Lyndon Johnson disliked the Kennedys because he felt that they were condescending to him and that they didn't respect him.
But Ted Kennedy was different because Ted Kennedy was not a hater. Ted Kennedy was an ingratiator, as I'd said earlier. So Lyndon Johnson and Ted Kennedy had a different kind of relationship. Lyndon Johnson tried to work Ted Kennedy. And, in fact, as Ted was the first to admit, he tried to separate the brothers, thinking that he might be able to get Ted to form some sort of alliance with him against Bobby. But Ted also said that that was an impossibility. No one could ever divide the Kennedys.
Nevertheless, Ted, unlike Bobby, was willing to work with Johnson and did work with Johnson. He did not have that antipathy toward Johnson that Bobby had. And so he worked on the Civil Rights Act of '64, and he worked on the Voting Rights Act of '65. And he worked with Johnson even on the war in Vietnam. Bobby broke with Johnson relatively early, but Ted did not. Ted continued, almost unconscionably, to support Johnson's prosecution of the war in Vietnam for a fairly long time, again, even as Bobby had turned against Johnson.
DAVIES: Neal Gabler's book is the first volume of a two-part biography. It's titled "Catching The Wind: Edward Kennedy And The Liberal Hour, 1932-1975." He'll be back to talk more after this short break. I'm Dave Davies. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
DAVIES: This is FRESH AIR. We're speaking with journalist and historian Neal Gabler about his new book. It's the first of a two-volume biography of the late Senator Edward Kennedy and the course of liberalism in American politics. It's titled "Catching The Wind: Edward Kennedy And The Liberal Hour, 1932-1975."
Ted Kennedy lost another brother. Robert Kennedy was assassinated after winning the California primary in 1968 as part of his presidential campaign. So that was another deep tragedy for the Kennedy family. But the following year in 1969 was an incident which would probably do more to undercut Ted Kennedy's moral authority and reputation than anything else in his life. This was the Chappaquiddick incident. I mean, you know, a lot of people remember this but may not remember the details. Some younger listeners may not recall it, know of it at all. Do you want to just give us the bare outlines? What happened in this episode?
GABLER: Well, this was the summer after Bobby Kennedy's assassination. And Ted was in a dire state. I described the state that Bobby Kennedy was in after John Kennedy's assassination. At this point, Ted Kennedy was in a similar state. He was asked to come to Chappaquiddick off of Martha's Vineyard to participate in a meeting of Bobby Kennedy's - a group of Bobby Kennedy's former staffers. They were known as the Boiler Room Girls because they managed the room in which state delegations were monitored.
He went there for a kind of wake for Bobby. He also went there to participate in a regatta, in a race. He was a great sailor. And what happened that evening, the evening of the party on Chappaquiddick Island is one of the Boiler Room Girls named Mary Jo Kopechne and Ted Kennedy went off in a car. Ted had said that they were going to go back to the mainland, back to Martha's Vineyard, to Edgartown.
But on the way back, Ted took a wrong turn, went off a very narrow bridge over a pond called Poucha Pond, and the car sailed off the bridge, overturned into the water. It was about seven feet of water. Ted managed to free himself from the car through a window, then said that he dove back toward the car to try and remove Mary Jo Kopechne. But he tried repeatedly, and the current was very, very strong, and he could not pull her out of the car. Eventually, Mary Jo Kopechne died. She drowned in the car.
As a womanizer and even as a drinker - so there were those elements. Was he drunk? Were he and Mary Jo Kopechne going off to have some sort of tryst? Which seems highly unlikely, what everyone thinks of Ted Kennedy - highly unlikely that Mary Jo Kopechne would have done that. She was a strict Catholic, and it impugns her reputation. But also, to be fair to Ted Kennedy in this instance, it would be very unlikely that Ted Kennedy would have gone off with one of Bobby's Boiler Room Girls. It's just not something he would have done.
Now, Ted did not report the accident for another 10 hours. There were reasons that he gave for that, but he himself said that none of them were exculpable, that he couldn't exculpate himself from this. And that really was the incident of Chappaquiddick that had all sorts of ramifications politically, for him personally and for the political cultural generally.
DAVIES: Right. Right. I mean, after the accident - it was the middle of the night, and he actually plunged into the water and swam across this little area to the - Edgartown, went to his hotel, rather than reporting it, went to sleep, got up in the morning and spent a couple of hours. And by the time he reported the accident, you know, the car had already been spotted, and I believe they had already identified it as his and rescue had retrieved Mary Jo Kopechne's body.
He would eventually plead guilty to leaving the scene of an accident and get a suspended sentence. And, you know, it left the feeling that, you know, he got a treatment that no one else would have in that circumstance. What was the impact on him, his image, his career?
GABLER: The impact was that, given Ted Kennedy's reputation - he had a reputation to his brother. But, you know, Ted's reputation was certainly impugned and didn't need much more impugning. And it was almost certainly the death of any chance that Edward Kennedy would have of being president of the United States. Prior to that accident, it was assumed that Ted Kennedy would be running against Richard Nixon in 1972 if he chose to run and that he would have a very good chance of being elected president. And if not then, then in 1976. But that doomed his chances.
It also did something else. There's a line that Walter Mondale - who's then-senator from Minnesota - said and I think it's absolutely true. He said, when Ted went over that bridge, he took liberalism with him, because if we talk about, again, the relationship between liberalism and moral authority and if we look at Ted Kennedy as being the primary proponent of liberalism, then when Ted Kennedy went over that bridge, he took liberalism with him because he took the moral authority over that bridge with him.
DAVIES: Let me reintroduce you again. We're going to take another break here. We are speaking with Neal Gabler. His new book is the first volume of a two-part biography titled "Catching The Wind: Edward Kennedy And The Liberal Hour, 1932-1975." We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
DAVIES: This is FRESH AIR. And we're speaking with Neal Gabler, a historian and journalist, about his new book, the first of a two-volume biography of the late Senator Edward Kennedy. It's called "Catching The Wind."
There's so much in here about Kennedy's legislative efforts and accomplishments, him being involved in campaign finance reform and in the - you know, kind of in the background of the Watergate investigation. One thing that was new to me - I mean, I knew that health care was a passion of his for decades. I didn't know that Congress took a serious run at health care reform in the second Nixon term - President Nixon. Just briefly, what happened? How close did we come to getting a real health care bill then?
GABLER: We came very close. And the reason was that Richard Nixon needed one. He was reeling from the Watergate investigation. Ted Kennedy, from 1969, had been angling to get a national health insurance bill. And here you have these two giant adversaries. Now, Kennedy, because of Chappaquiddick and because of his own interest in passing some health care bill and Nixon because - largely because of Watergate, seeing if they could join forces to find some kind of modus vivendi to pass a national health insurance bill. And Kennedy also had recruited Wilbur Mills, who was the head of the House Ways and Means Committee, to see if we could get Mills to also assist with advancing a national health care bill in the House.
So we were bringing all of these components together. That is, Kennedy was bringing Nixon and Wilbur Mills, and of course he had himself and all the liberals on one side, and they were all meeting. And it's a very complicated story of how many parts there were in this. But because of Watergate, the labor leaders and other liberal leaders felt, you know, Nixon needs this desperately. But Watergate is also going to tumble Nixon and throw him out of office, and we will have a greater opportunity to pass a national health care bill when we get a Democratic Congress and a Democratic president.
And so Kennedy tried to argue with them. Kennedy tried to tell them that it wasn't going to change in the way they thought it was going to change. And he took out the congressional director. And he went down every member of the Senate Finance Committee and convinced them - tried to convince them, not successfully, that all of these guys were going to be there. These guys were going to win their reelections, that the committee wasn't going to be any different. If they thought they were going to have some better chance of passing this, they were wrong. And they considered Kennedy - and they called him this - they said, you're a traitor. You're a traitor to the cause.
But eventually, it just blew up. But they came within an eyelash. And Kennedy always said that the greatest regret of his career was not sitting down with Nixon and getting a national health care bill through the Congress because with Nixon and Kennedy working together and also with the assistance of Wilbur Mills, he thought it was a doable thing. But in the end, it wasn't doable.
DAVIES: Would this have been a single-payer national health system?
GABLER: It would have been a system - no, it would not have been single-payer. It actually would have been a national health care system that would not be that dissimilar from Obamacare. It had employer mandates. That was what Nixon was proposing. Kennedy always understood. You know, we always think of Kennedy as being this hard, liberal ideologue. But Kennedy was a pragmatist, always a pragmatist. The health care bill that he proposed year after year after year after year, the Health Security Act, was a single-payer system. But Kennedy also understood that you put that on the table and then you have to retreat from that to get a bill that will actually pass. That's how Kennedy legislated.
And - so, no, it wasn't a single-payer bill that would finally have emerged from this compromise, but it would have been a bill that Kennedy could then build on, which is what he always sought to do. You know, let's get what we can get - let's get the half a loaf, and then I'm going to bake the full loaf. But they couldn't get the half a loaf.
DAVIES: You know, after the Chappaquiddick scandal in 1969, the next presidential election was 1972. And it wasn't out of the question that he would run and certainly not out of question four years later in the 1976 election. In the end, he didn't in either case. But he did go around the country giving speeches and, you know, raising people's hopes. And what's interesting is that he was still beloved by so many people. Right? I mean, he got amazing receptions.
GABLER: The Kennedy brand is a strong brand. And Ted, you know, used that brand. You know, here is a thing, also, about Ted that I think is interesting. We tend to read John Kennedy and Robert Kennedy forward into Ted Kennedy, and the Ted Kennedy becomes a sort of liberal icon because he bears that legacy from John and Robert.
But I think there's another process at work here. We read Ted back into Robert and John. John was nowhere near as liberal as Ted Kennedy. And I think one could make the argument - and I would make it - that even Robert Kennedy, who was much more liberal than John and, in fact, used John's death to advance a much more liberal agenda, is also a beneficiary of Ted's liberalism.
You know, Ted became the icon of the powerless. He enjoyed that role. And it became a more important role as Republicans took over the Congress and as Ronald Reagan became president in 1980 and then, you know, George Bush - George H.W. Bush and later George W. Bush, Ted was that flickering flame that kept liberalism alive. And for those who believed in the things in which Ted Kennedy believed, which was an activist government that would help those who needed help, you know, he remained. He remained the outstanding figure of the left.
DAVIES: You know, the last story that you tell in the book is one in which an element of the old New Deal coalition, the progressive coalition, which was, you know, white, ethnic, working-class voters who had supported, you know, the New Deal and supported John Kennedy - that Ted Kennedy lost them really over the issue of integrating schools in Boston, which, according to court orders at the time, included busing of students - both Black students and white students - into different neighborhoods. And it was, you know, passionately opposed by a lot of Irish - in a lot of Irish American communities.
Ted Kennedy didn't exactly endorse this, but he believed in upholding the law and embracing the principle of integration. What kind of encounters did he have with these constituents who were so furious at him?
GABLER: Well, Dave, you're exactly right. I mean, Ted Kennedy is caught between a rock and a hard place. Ted Kennedy is advocating for integration because African Americans, he felt, deserved it. But on the other hand, those very supporters of his - the ethnic Irish and Italians of Boston are feeling that this is a zero-sum game and they're losing it, that integration comes at their expense. And though Ted's endorsement was somewhat lukewarm, he couldn't turn his back on African Americans. And he - in 1974, when the integration plan, a court-ordered integration plan, was going forward, Ted appeared at an antibusing rally. He was not invited; he just appeared, hoping that he might restore peace between the sides, hoping that he might use the Kennedy magic. But the Kennedy magic had vanished at this point. And what happens then and in a subsequent appearance that he makes, where a group of white Bostonians gathers outside, is that Ted Kennedy is assaulted.
And in the second instance, which happened outside in Quincy, Mass. - the first was a rally in Boston on the civic plaza there; the second was in Quincy - he has to run for his life. So he is being chased. He is being pelted. He is being kicked. He is being, you know, hit. He is being chased down into the Boston subway and has to jump onto a train while his aides bar the gates because these people are going to go after him and try and physically destroy him.
DAVIES: And these were people who had been ardent supporters of his for decades.
GABLER: These are ardent Kennedy supporters. These are people who love the Kennedys. But in a way, this is a harbinger of the kind of thing that we're seeing in America in present-day America. This was the core of the New Deal coalition. But when the Kennedys began working, when Ted Kennedy began working for integration, they couldn't countenance that. They turned on him. They felt that he had been a traitor to their cause and that he had taken the side of African Americans against them.
It was, again, a harbinger of what was to happen in America, generally, which is why I end volume one with that story - because the notion of the rise of conservatism and the end of liberalism is somehow typified by that incident or those two incidents - the one in Boston, the one in Quincy - in which Ted Kennedy, the liberal icon, is chased by the very people who had always supported him and his brothers.
DAVIES: You know, Ted being the affable guy, the guy who always felt comfortable in a working-class bar, how did he react to this?
GABLER: He was shaken. He was shaken because he understood. He understood their grievance. It wasn't as if Ted Kennedy was some sort of ivory-tower liberal who didn't get it. He got it. It just felt - he just felt that, you know, it was something he couldn't embrace. He couldn't embrace letting the schools remain segregated. But he was so shaken. After that rally on the plaza in Boston, you know, he was holding a cup of water and his hand was just palsied. His face was flush.
He knew what had happened. He knew - he understood the forces that were being summoned against him. He understood all of that. But he was powerless to deal with it because there was no easy way out, as there was no easy way out now. That is - you know, these are the forces of contention. Either you embrace, you know, the forces of progressivism and integration and multiculturalism and whatever one wants to call it, or you don't, or you feel that there's a backlash against it. And Ted Kennedy was in the middle of that battle and suffered greatly for it, both personally and politically.
DAVIES: Well, Neal Gabler, thank you so much for speaking with us.
GABLER: Thank you so very much, Dave. I enjoyed it.
DAVIES: Neal Gabler's new book is the first volume of a two-part biography. It's titled "Catching The Wind: Edward Kennedy And The Liberal Hour, 1932-1975." The second volume called "Against The Wind: Edward Kennedy And The Rise Of Conservatism" will appear in October of 2021.
Coming up, Justin Chang reviews "Happiest Season," a new romantic comedy starring Kristen Stewart and Mackenzie Davis as a lesbian couple keeping their relationship a secret at a family Christmas gathering. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
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npr--2020-11-30--Supreme Court Looks For Ways To Wait Out Trump On Key Census Question

Supreme Court Looks For Ways To Wait Out Trump On Key Census Question At the U.S. Supreme Court on Monday , the justices expressed doubts about a plan to exclude undocumented immigrants from a key census count — the first time unauthorized immigrants would not be counted for purposes of drawing new congressional districts .
The Constitution mandates that the `` whole number of persons '' living in each state be counted to figure out how many congressional seats and Electoral College votes are allocated to each state .
But in July , President Trump issued a memorandum instructing the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ immigrants from the count used for apportionment purposes .
At the high court Monday , acting Solicitor General Jeffrey Wall was in the unenviable position of telling the justices he did n't know how many `` illegal aliens '' Trump plans to exclude .
`` As of this very morning , '' he said , `` career experts at the Census Bureau confirmed with me that they still do n't know even roughly how many illegal aliens it 'll be able to identify , let alone how their number and geographic concentration might @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Roberts noted that the court expedited this case because the Trump administration asserted it needed the numbers before Dec. 31 to allocate congressional seats .
`` Is that date still operative ? ''
Roberts asked .
`` Do you still need a decision by that date ? ''
Wall replied that `` the situation is fairly fluid , '' prompting the chief justice to observe that if that is the case , and the allocation of seats goes forward , the court would later have to `` unscramble the eggs , '' and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ across the country . ''
The administration still does n't know what is `` feasible , '' Wall said , adding that small subsets of `` illegal aliens '' may be identifiable — for instance , those in Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention .
Justice Samuel Alito said excluding the estimated 10.5 million undocumented immigrants present in the United States `` seems to me a monumental task , '' and , he observed , `` there are only 31 days left in the year . ''
`` I would think you would be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a realistic possibility at this point , '' he said .
But Wall could not , and so the justices started looking for legal exit ramps that would allow a later challenge to whatever Trump decides to do .
Still Wall pressed on , saying the administration is on an `` extremely compressed '' schedule and should not be barred from `` this opportunity '' to allocate congressional seats .
But if Trump was looking for help from his appointees to the court , he did n't get much .
`` A lot @ @ @ @ @ @ @ cuts against your position , '' said Amy Coney Barrett , Trump 's newest appointee .
Moreover , she said , given the uncertainty about the Census Bureau 's ability to come up with any firm numbers , perhaps the court should wait and see what develops .
But New York Solicitor General Barbara Underwood , opposing the administration , said that `` the Framers wanted a system that could not easily be manipulated .
So they decided to count just the persons living in each state . ''
The Trump administration policy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the first time ... reject that choice . ''
Also opposing the Trump policy was the American Civil Liberties Union 's Dale Ho , representing immigrant rights groups .
Waiting until after the allocation of congressional seats , he said , would be disruptive for states that will quickly be in a crunch to redraw congressional district lines .
Even something that sounds easy , such as counting those in ICE detention , is not so easy because some of those people are legal permanent residents , he added .
Roberts , still @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that right now `` we do n't know what the president is going to do . ''
`` We do n't know how many aliens will be excluded .
We do n't know what the effect of that would be on apportionment .
All these questions would be resolved if we wait until apportionment takes place , so why are n't we better advised to do that ? ''
he asked .
Unspoken was what appeared to be on the minds of all the justices .
Because of the pandemic , Census Bureau @ @ @ @ @ @ @ finish the population count in the states until the end of January , at the earliest .
And by then , Trump wo n't be president .
At a post-argument press conference Monday , lawyer Ho said states with large immigrant populations worry that the Trump administration may try to override the Census Bureau 's career civil servants and force the early release of census figures `` of dubious accuracy '' before Inauguration Day .
`` I do n't think there 's any guarantee that the administration would n't try to ram something @ @ @ @ @ @ @ even if the professionals did n't believe that that number met accepted standards in social science . ''
Monday 's arguments before the Supreme Court came just days after a lower court in Washington , D.C. , tossed out one of the multiple lawsuits over Trump 's memo .
Three lower courts previously declared that memo to be a violation of census statutes , or of the Constitution , or both .
The vote in all three of those cases was unanimous , with judges appointed by both Republican and Democratic presidents .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ up of mostly Trump-appointed judges , found that the case is not ready for a court to review .
In a split decision , the court decided it should not step in until after the president delivers the numbers to Congress .
That process is likely to take place after Trump 's presidency .
The Census Bureau recently concluded it can not finish putting together the first set of census numbers by the legal reporting deadline of Dec. 31 .
After finding `` processing anomalies '' in this year 's census results , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ needs to run more quality checks until at least Jan. 26 , almost a week after the end of Trump 's term .
That timing would mean the process for reapportioning House seats and Electoral College votes among the states would take place under the watch of newly inaugurated President Joe Biden , who has condemned Trump 's memo and said that `` in America , everyone counts . ''

Supreme Court Looks For Ways To Wait Out Trump On Key Census Question
Enlarge this image toggle caption Andrew Harnik/AP Andrew Harnik/AP
Updated at 5:24 p.m. ET
At the U.S. Supreme Court on Monday, the justices expressed doubts about a plan to exclude undocumented immigrants from a key census count — the first time unauthorized immigrants would not be counted for purposes of drawing new congressional districts.
The Constitution mandates that the "whole number of persons" living in each state be counted to figure out how many congressional seats and Electoral College votes are allocated to each state. But in July, President Trump issued a memorandum instructing the U.S. Census Bureau to exclude all undocumented immigrants from the count used for apportionment purposes.
At the high court Monday, acting Solicitor General Jeffrey Wall was in the unenviable position of telling the justices he didn't know how many "illegal aliens" Trump plans to exclude.
"As of this very morning," he said, "career experts at the Census Bureau confirmed with me that they still don't know even roughly how many illegal aliens it'll be able to identify, let alone how their number and geographic concentration might affect apportionment."
Chief Justice John Roberts noted that the court expedited this case because the Trump administration asserted it needed the numbers before Dec. 31 to allocate congressional seats.
"Is that date still operative?" Roberts asked. "Do you still need a decision by that date?"
Wall replied that "the situation is fairly fluid," prompting the chief justice to observe that if that is the case, and the allocation of seats goes forward, the court would later have to "unscramble the eggs," and that would have "ripple effects all across the country."
The administration still doesn't know what is "feasible," Wall said, adding that small subsets of "illegal aliens" may be identifiable — for instance, those in Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention.
Justice Samuel Alito said excluding the estimated 10.5 million undocumented immigrants present in the United States "seems to me a monumental task," and, he observed, "there are only 31 days left in the year."
"I would think you would be able to tell us whether that remains a realistic possibility at this point," he said.
But Wall could not, and so the justices started looking for legal exit ramps that would allow a later challenge to whatever Trump decides to do.
Still Wall pressed on, saying the administration is on an "extremely compressed" schedule and should not be barred from "this opportunity" to allocate congressional seats.
But if Trump was looking for help from his appointees to the court, he didn't get much.
"A lot of historical evidence and long-standing practice really cuts against your position," said Amy Coney Barrett, Trump's newest appointee.
Moreover, she said, given the uncertainty about the Census Bureau's ability to come up with any firm numbers, perhaps the court should wait and see what develops.
But New York Solicitor General Barbara Underwood, opposing the administration, said that "the Framers wanted a system that could not easily be manipulated. So they decided to count just the persons living in each state." The Trump administration policy, she said, "would for the first time ... reject that choice."
Also opposing the Trump policy was the American Civil Liberties Union's Dale Ho, representing immigrant rights groups. Waiting until after the allocation of congressional seats, he said, would be disruptive for states that will quickly be in a crunch to redraw congressional district lines. Even something that sounds easy, such as counting those in ICE detention, is not so easy because some of those people are legal permanent residents, he added.
Roberts, still looking for an exit ramp, noted that right now "we don't know what the president is going to do."
"We don't know how many aliens will be excluded. We don't know what the effect of that would be on apportionment. All these questions would be resolved if we wait until apportionment takes place, so why aren't we better advised to do that?" he asked.
Unspoken was what appeared to be on the minds of all the justices. Because of the pandemic, Census Bureau officials have indicated they likely won't finish the population count in the states until the end of January, at the earliest. And by then, Trump won't be president.
At a post-argument press conference Monday, lawyer Ho said states with large immigrant populations worry that the Trump administration may try to override the Census Bureau's career civil servants and force the early release of census figures "of dubious accuracy" before Inauguration Day.
"I don't think there's any guarantee that the administration wouldn't try to ram something through," Ho said, "even if the professionals didn't believe that that number met accepted standards in social science."
Monday's arguments before the Supreme Court came just days after a lower court in Washington, D.C., tossed out one of the multiple lawsuits over Trump's memo.
Three lower courts previously declared that memo to be a violation of census statutes, or of the Constitution, or both. The vote in all three of those cases was unanimous, with judges appointed by both Republican and Democratic presidents.
But the panel in Washington, made up of mostly Trump-appointed judges, found that the case is not ready for a court to review. In a split decision, the court decided it should not step in until after the president delivers the numbers to Congress.
That process is likely to take place after Trump's presidency.
The Census Bureau recently concluded it cannot finish putting together the first set of census numbers by the legal reporting deadline of Dec. 31.
After finding "processing anomalies" in this year's census results, the bureau's career staff determined it needs to run more quality checks until at least Jan. 26, almost a week after the end of Trump's term.
That timing would mean the process for reapportioning House seats and Electoral College votes among the states would take place under the watch of newly inaugurated President Joe Biden, who has condemned Trump's memo and said that "in America, everyone counts."


npr--2020-11-30--The Winding Journey Of Avril Haines, Biden's Pick To Lead U.S. Intelligence

The Winding Journey Of Avril Haines , Biden 's Pick To Lead U.S. Intelligence For someone poised to become the ultimate insider as the director of national intelligence , Avril Haines spent her formative years more as a hipster and an outsider .
An only child raised on the West Side of New York , she spent her teenage years helping care for her ailing mother , who died when Haines was 15 .
As soon as she finished high school , Haines set out on a series of adventures .
She began with a stint at an elite judo @ @ @ @ @ @ @ belt .
Her next stop was the University of Chicago , where she studied theoretical physics , a highly competitive department dominated by men .
She also loved rebuilding cars and airplanes , and eventually learned to fly .
`` She bought a used Cessna and rebuilt the avionics herself and tried to fly across the Atlantic Ocean and crash-landed near the Newfoundland coast , '' said David Priess , a former CIA officer who has written extensively about the agency 's leaders .
The aborted trip was n't a total disaster .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ Davighi , later became her husband , and they launched an independent bookstore and cafe in a gritty part of Baltimore in the 1990s .
When President-elect Joe Biden introduced Haines last week as the first woman nominated as director of national intelligence , the top job in U.S. intelligence , he referred to Haines ' eclectic past .
`` Brilliant , humble .
Can talk literature and theoretical physics , fixing cars , flying planes , running a bookstore-cafe , all in a single conversation , because she 's done all that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ now 51 , was in her early 30s by the time she graduated from Georgetown Law School and began her rapid ascent in government .
`` She has serious credentials , '' said Rollie Flynn , who served three decades at the CIA and is a big supporter of Haines .
`` She is a really smart person , a person with serious horsepower and a nice person .
I do n't think you 're going to see a lot of drama out of her .
Just a serious professional . ''
Haines @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Department .
She then joined the Senate Foreign Relations Committee , where she got to know the committee chairman — Biden , then a senator from Delaware .
When Biden became President Barack Obama 's vice president , Haines followed him to the White House , working on the National Security Council .
She was so highly regarded that in 2013 , Obama named her to the No .
2 job at the CIA , though she had never worked at the spy agency .
She was the first woman to hold the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Haspel became CIA director in 2018 .
`` I think all of us probably had a bit of a question mark because [ Haines ] did n't have a background in the agency , '' said Jeanne Tisinger , a senior CIA official when Haines was appointed .
`` I became a fan within weeks , '' Tisinger said .
Flynn , who was a CIA station chief abroad and held senior roles at agency headquarters , says it 's still a big deal when a woman is named to a top job @ @ @ @ @ @ @ come up in the days when there were n't very many women in leadership positions , to me it 's very significant , '' said Flynn , now the president of the Foreign Policy Research Institute in Philadelphia .
`` There are so many women who for years have been capable of holding those jobs .
And so I think to actually see that come to fruition is a terrific thing . ''
Haines does have critics , such as Daniel Jones .
Jones was the chief investigator on the Senate Intelligence Committee @ @ @ @ @ @ @ accused of breaking into the committee 's computers .
The CIA 's own inspector general criticized the actions of several CIA employees in his finding .
But Haines led a review board that said no one at the agency should be disciplined .
Jones says this case deserves another look when Haines has a Senate confirmation hearing .
`` I think she really lacked the leadership in this case , and I think the Senate needs to push her on it , '' Jones says .
`` I think we need to learn @ @ @ @ @ @ @ her role in it . ''
If Haines is confirmed , she 'll be taking over an intelligence community that 's consistently been on the receiving end of criticism from President Trump .
In contrast , Biden has had good ties with the national security establishment and first worked with Haines more than a decade ago .
That longstanding relationship could be key for someone who 's expected to part of the president 's daily national security briefing .
Haines kept a low profile in her previous government positions , but she did @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
`` Mr. President-elect , you know I 've never shied away from speaking truth to power , '' she said .
`` I accept this nomination knowing that you would never want me to do otherwise ... even when what I have to say may be inconvenient or difficult , and I assure you , there will be those times . ''
Greg Myre is an NPR national security correspondent .
Follow him @ gregmyre1 .

The Winding Journey Of Avril Haines, Biden's Pick To Lead U.S. Intelligence
Enlarge this image toggle caption Carolyn Kaster/AP Carolyn Kaster/AP
For someone poised to become the ultimate insider as the director of national intelligence, Avril Haines spent her formative years more as a hipster and an outsider.
An only child raised on the West Side of New York, she spent her teenage years helping care for her ailing mother, who died when Haines was 15. As soon as she finished high school, Haines set out on a series of adventures. She began with a stint at an elite judo academy in Japan, earning a brown belt.
Her next stop was the University of Chicago, where she studied theoretical physics, a highly competitive department dominated by men.
She also loved rebuilding cars and airplanes, and eventually learned to fly.
"She bought a used Cessna and rebuilt the avionics herself and tried to fly across the Atlantic Ocean and crash-landed near the Newfoundland coast," said David Priess, a former CIA officer who has written extensively about the agency's leaders.
The aborted trip wasn't a total disaster. Her co-pilot and flight instructor, David Davighi, later became her husband, and they launched an independent bookstore and cafe in a gritty part of Baltimore in the 1990s.
When President-elect Joe Biden introduced Haines last week as the first woman nominated as director of national intelligence, the top job in U.S. intelligence, he referred to Haines' eclectic past.
"Brilliant, humble. Can talk literature and theoretical physics, fixing cars, flying planes, running a bookstore-cafe, all in a single conversation, because she's done all that," Biden said.
Haines, now 51, was in her early 30s by the time she graduated from Georgetown Law School and began her rapid ascent in government.
Enlarge this image toggle caption Carolyn Kaster/AP Carolyn Kaster/AP
"She has serious credentials," said Rollie Flynn, who served three decades at the CIA and is a big supporter of Haines. "She is a really smart person, a person with serious horsepower and a nice person. I don't think you're going to see a lot of drama out of her. Just a serious professional."
Haines worked on international treaties at the State Department. She then joined the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, where she got to know the committee chairman — Biden, then a senator from Delaware.
When Biden became President Barack Obama's vice president, Haines followed him to the White House, working on the National Security Council.
She was so highly regarded that in 2013, Obama named her to the No. 2 job at the CIA, though she had never worked at the spy agency. She was the first woman to hold the title of deputy director, though Gina Haspel became CIA director in 2018.
"I think all of us probably had a bit of a question mark because [Haines] didn't have a background in the agency," said Jeanne Tisinger, a senior CIA official when Haines was appointed.
That changed quickly.
"I became a fan within weeks," Tisinger said.
Flynn, who was a CIA station chief abroad and held senior roles at agency headquarters, says it's still a big deal when a woman is named to a top job in national security.
"Having myself come up in the days when there weren't very many women in leadership positions, to me it's very significant," said Flynn, now the president of the Foreign Policy Research Institute in Philadelphia. "There are so many women who for years have been capable of holding those jobs. And so I think to actually see that come to fruition is a terrific thing."
Haines does have critics, such as Daniel Jones.
Jones was the chief investigator on the Senate Intelligence Committee back in 2014 when CIA staffers were accused of breaking into the committee's computers.
The CIA's own inspector general criticized the actions of several CIA employees in his finding. But Haines led a review board that said no one at the agency should be disciplined. Jones says this case deserves another look when Haines has a Senate confirmation hearing.
"I think she really lacked the leadership in this case, and I think the Senate needs to push her on it," Jones says. "I think we need to learn more about that accountability board review and her role in it."
If Haines is confirmed, she'll be taking over an intelligence community that's consistently been on the receiving end of criticism from President Trump.
In contrast, Biden has had good ties with the national security establishment and first worked with Haines more than a decade ago. That longstanding relationship could be key for someone who's expected to part of the president's daily national security briefing.
Haines kept a low profile in her previous government positions, but she did make brief comments when Biden nominated her.
"Mr. President-elect, you know I've never shied away from speaking truth to power," she said. "I accept this nomination knowing that you would never want me to do otherwise ... even when what I have to say may be inconvenient or difficult, and I assure you, there will be those times."
Greg Myre is an NPR national security correspondent. Follow him @gregmyre1.