npr--2020-07-20--Early Oxford-AstraZeneca Coronavirus Vaccine Data 'Encouraging,' Scientists Say

An experimental coronavirus vaccine triggered an immune response against COVID-19 in study participants , and it has only minor side effects , according to new data published in the medical journal The Lancet .
The vaccine , called AZD1222 for now , is being developed by Oxford University and AstraZeneca .
It uses a different , harmless virus to deliver biological instructions for how to fight off the coronavirus .
According to a phase one/phase two study of more than 1,000 patients , the vaccine triggered two immune responses : an increase in antibodies and a T-cell response .
This @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sign .
`` So far , everything we 've seen has been encouraging , '' said Naor Bar-Zeev , deputy director of the International Vaccine Access Center at Johns Hopkins University .
He was not involved with this study .
And he said there have not been any severe reactions .
Reported reactions were more common among patients who received the coronavirus vaccine than those who received the control , which was a meningitis vaccine .
They included muscle ache , chills and feeling feverish .
But acetaminophen relieved those symptoms , the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ between April 23 and May 21 , and included 1,077 participants from 18 to 55 years old who had not previously tested positive for the coronavirus .
Although the gender breakdown was fairly even , study participants were mostly white .
The study was single-blind , meaning patients did not know whether they received the coronavirus vaccine or the control .
Professor Adrian Hill , one of the study authors , said that the two-pronged immune response is ideal .
The antibodies prevent healthy cells from becoming infected , and the T-cells work @ @ @ @ @ @ @ infected .
`` Having both of these after vaccination — sometimes after a single dose , but much better after a second dose — is pretty encouraging , '' said Hill , who directs the Jenner Institute at the University of Oxford .
`` Nobody can say for certain what you need to get protection in this disease because it 's never been done before , '' he said .
He added that the magnitude of the immune response was what they hoped for and was at the level `` that seems to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ certainly right up there compared to using this sort of vaccine technology before . ''
The researchers said it 's encouraging that they did n't find any serious adverse reactions , but they cautioned more research is needed to understand rarer reactions to the vaccine , which may not appear in 1,000 people but could turn up once the vaccine is given to millions of Americans , Bar-Zeev said .
Hill agreed there 's still plenty that can go wrong , which is why he and his colleagues are rooting for other vaccine @ @ @ @ @ @ @ well .
Although the study was done well , it 's important to remember it 's a `` progress report , '' said Robert Gallo , co-founder and director of the Institute of Human Virology at the University of Maryland School of Medicine .
It 's too soon to declare victory .
`` People are looking for antibodies that , in the lab , will block infection in a culture system , called 'neutralizing antibodies . '
And that sounds very good , '' said Gallo , who is also the co-founder and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Network .
`` Sometimes , that correlates with protection in vaccines .
... And sometimes it does not .
And many times it does not . ''
The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine works by targeting the spike proteins that stud the outer surface of the coronavirus , giving it its crown-like shape .
Based on other research into viruses with similar spike proteins , Gallo said he worries that the antibodies these vaccines generate wo n't last long .
It 's the T-cell response measured in this study that he finds the most compelling and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ game . ''
`` It gave me a little more belief that this is going to be a viable pathway , '' he said .
This vaccine is being developed by the University of Oxford in partnership with AstraZeneca .
The Trump administration awarded the duo up to $ 1.2 billion from the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority as part of Operation Warp Speed , the administration 's push to have a widely available coronavirus vaccine by January .
There are 24 coronavirus vaccine candidates currently in clinical trial , according to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ — the Oxford-AstraZeneca candidate and another candidate by Sinovac Biotech — have begun phase three trials so far .
Phase three trials are the largest and usually last clinical trials before approval .
They often include evaluating whether the treatment works better or worse than the standard of care , and closely monitoring adverse events .
Hill said 10,000 patients have already been administered a vaccine as part of a follow-up study in the United Kingdom , and an even larger follow-up study is set to begin in the United States in the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ In all , he said there are four or five trial sites , totaling 50,000 participants .
`` As soon as together those trials show a convincing end point , then we would be in a position to apply for some sort of emergency use , regulatory approval that would allow the vaccine to be used , '' he said .
`` Because it 's urgently needed in large numbers of people . ''
An additional 142 vaccine candidates are in preclinical studies .

Early Oxford-AstraZeneca Coronavirus Vaccine Data 'Encouraging,' Scientists Say
Enlarge this image toggle caption Paul Ellis/AFP via Getty Images Paul Ellis/AFP via Getty Images
Updated 5:20 p.m. ET
An experimental coronavirus vaccine triggered an immune response against COVID-19 in study participants, and it has only minor side effects, according to new data published in the medical journal The Lancet.
The vaccine, called AZD1222 for now, is being developed by Oxford University and AstraZeneca. It uses a different, harmless virus to deliver biological instructions for how to fight off the coronavirus.
According to a phase one/phase two study of more than 1,000 patients, the vaccine triggered two immune responses: an increase in antibodies and a T-cell response.
This, scientists said, is a good sign.
"So far, everything we've seen has been encouraging," said Naor Bar-Zeev, deputy director of the International Vaccine Access Center at Johns Hopkins University. He was not involved with this study. And he said there have not been any severe reactions.
Reported reactions were more common among patients who received the coronavirus vaccine than those who received the control, which was a meningitis vaccine. They included muscle ache, chills and feeling feverish. But acetaminophen relieved those symptoms, the researchers wrote.
Study enrollment took place between April 23 and May 21, and included 1,077 participants from 18 to 55 years old who had not previously tested positive for the coronavirus. Although the gender breakdown was fairly even, study participants were mostly white. The study was single-blind, meaning patients did not know whether they received the coronavirus vaccine or the control.
Professor Adrian Hill, one of the study authors, said that the two-pronged immune response is ideal. The antibodies prevent healthy cells from becoming infected, and the T-cells work to kill cells that have already become infected.
"Having both of these after vaccination — sometimes after a single dose, but much better after a second dose — is pretty encouraging," said Hill, who directs the Jenner Institute at the University of Oxford.
"Nobody can say for certain what you need to get protection in this disease because it's never been done before," he said. He added that the magnitude of the immune response was what they hoped for and was at the level "that seems to work in fundamental studies in animals and certainly right up there compared to using this sort of vaccine technology before."
The researchers said it's encouraging that they didn't find any serious adverse reactions, but they cautioned more research is needed to understand rarer reactions to the vaccine, which may not appear in 1,000 people but could turn up once the vaccine is given to millions of Americans, Bar-Zeev said.
Hill agreed there's still plenty that can go wrong, which is why he and his colleagues are rooting for other vaccine candidates to have positive study results as well.
Although the study was done well, it's important to remember it's a "progress report," said Robert Gallo, co-founder and director of the Institute of Human Virology at the University of Maryland School of Medicine. It's too soon to declare victory.
"People are looking for antibodies that, in the lab, will block infection in a culture system, called 'neutralizing antibodies.' And that sounds very good," said Gallo, who is also the co-founder and international scientific adviser of the Global Virus Network. "Sometimes, that correlates with protection in vaccines. ... And sometimes it does not. And many times it does not."
The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine works by targeting the spike proteins that stud the outer surface of the coronavirus, giving it its crown-like shape. Based on other research into viruses with similar spike proteins, Gallo said he worries that the antibodies these vaccines generate won't last long. It's the T-cell response measured in this study that he finds the most compelling and makes these researchers "ahead of the game."
"It gave me a little more belief that this is going to be a viable pathway," he said.
This vaccine is being developed by the University of Oxford in partnership with AstraZeneca. The Trump administration awarded the duo up to $1.2 billion from the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority as part of Operation Warp Speed, the administration's push to have a widely available coronavirus vaccine by January.
There are 24 coronavirus vaccine candidates currently in clinical trial, according to the World Health Organization. Only two — the Oxford-AstraZeneca candidate and another candidate by Sinovac Biotech — have begun phase three trials so far. Phase three trials are the largest and usually last clinical trials before approval. They often include evaluating whether the treatment works better or worse than the standard of care, and closely monitoring adverse events.
Hill said 10,000 patients have already been administered a vaccine as part of a follow-up study in the United Kingdom, and an even larger follow-up study is set to begin in the United States in the next few weeks with 30,000 patients. In all, he said there are four or five trial sites, totaling 50,000 participants.
"As soon as together those trials show a convincing end point, then we would be in a position to apply for some sort of emergency use, regulatory approval that would allow the vaccine to be used," he said. "Because it's urgently needed in large numbers of people."
An additional 142 vaccine candidates are in preclinical studies.


npr--2020-07-20--'They Just Started Waling On Me': Violence In Portland As U.S. Agents Clamp Down

'They Just Started Waling On Me ' : Violence In Portland As U.S .
Agents Clamp Down As federal law enforcement agents continue to occupy Portland , Ore. , state and local officials are demanding that they leave .
Protesters have demonstrated in the city 's downtown for more than 50 nights since George Floyd died after a Minneapolis police officer knelt on his neck .
`` There 's absolutely no question that by having the presence of federal officers here , it 's simply like adding gasoline to a fire , '' Oregon Gov .
Kate Brown said in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Sunday , a new image of the stiff federal response in Portland went viral : a video of 53-year-old Navy veteran Christopher David being struck repeatedly with a baton wielded by a federal law enforcement officer .
A graduate of the U.S .
Naval Academy and a former member of the Navy 's Civil Engineer Corps , David told The Washington Post that he had n't previously been to any protests , but he wanted to know how the federal officers thought about their oath to defend the Constitution .
`` Why are @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Constitution ? ''
he says he yelled at the officers .
Video shows an officer dressed in camouflage hitting David with a baton and another officer spraying him in the face with a chemical irritant .
`` I stood my ground at that point and just stayed there .
...
I did nothing provocative .
They just started waling on me with batons , and I let them , '' David told The Independent .
He was left with a broken hand .
Oregon Public Broadcasting reported Friday that federal law enforcement officers @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Portland to grab and detain protesters .
In an interview Sunday with NPR , Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler blamed the federal government for making things worse in the city .
`` We have an already heightened situation .
It 's already tense , '' Wheeler said .
`` But after nearly five weeks of demonstrations , we are starting to see that small handful of people who were engaged in criminal activity — it was dissipating .
It was calming down .
We believed a week ago it would be over by this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the feds stepped in with a very heavy-handed approach , and it blew the lid off the whole thing . ''
`` With the federal government , they wo n't even identify who they are , '' Wheeler said .
`` We do n't know why they 're here .
We do n't know the circumstances under which they 're making arrests .
We do n't know what their policies are or what accountability mechanisms there are , to the point where even the U.S. attorney here in the state of Oregon is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ where was the probable cause to pull these people off the streets into unmarked cars ? ''
President Trump defended the federal response .
`` We are trying to help Portland , not hurt it , '' he tweeted on Sunday .
`` Their leadership has , for months , lost control of the anarchists and agitators .
They are missing in action .
We must protect Federal property , AND OUR PEOPLE . ''
Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf brushed aside criticism that federal officers are inciting violence .
`` I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , state mayors or state governors to do our job , '' Wolf said Monday on Fox News .
`` We 're going to do that , whether they like us there or not . ''
He called the protesters `` violent anarchists and extremists '' and said they were `` violent well before DHS surged assets into Portland . ''
Wolf said the Department of Homeland Security will defend Portland 's Mark O. Hatfield U.S .
Courthouse from destructive acts despite requests from state and local authorities that federal officers leave .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ told NPR 's Morning Edition , Portland police initially reacted with force to the protests , using tear gas and rubber bullets .
Activist groups and protesters sued the city and won a temporary restraining order , limiting law enforcement 's use of tear gas and rubber bullets — but it does n't apply to federal law enforcement .
The federal officers in Portland are from the U.S .
Marshals Special Operations Group , a SWAT-like unit from U.S. Customs and Border Protection and the Federal Protective Service , Levinson said .
They @ @ @ @ @ @ @ protesters from around the courthouse on July 1 .
On July Fourth , the federal police made a show of force , dispersing the crowd but then continuing across the street and into the city for blocks , alongside the Portland police .
Last week , a protester was shot in the head with a less lethal round and severely injured .
Early Monday morning , the Portland Police Bureau released a statement describing federal law enforcement 's role in Sunday night 's protests and making clear that local police had not played @ @ @ @ @ @ @ releasing tear gas .
Trump has called the protests `` totally out of control . ''
Ken Cuccinelli , the acting deputy DHS secretary , seemed to blame the restrictions on Portland 's mayor , telling NPR last week that Wheeler `` holds back to a certain extent his own law enforcement . ''
On Friday , the U.S. senators from Oregon , Jeff Merkley and Ron Wyden , as well as U.S. Reps. Earl Blumenauer and Suzanne Bonamici asked the Justice Department and DHS to investigate `` the unrequested presence and violent @ @ @ @ @ @ @ '' Oregon Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum filed a lawsuit Friday against the DHS and other federal agencies and alleged that they have `` engaged in unlawful law enforcement in violation of the civil rights of Oregonians by seizing and detaining them without probable cause . ''
`` The federal administration has chosen Portland to use their scare tactics to stop our residents from protesting police brutality and from supporting the Black Lives Matter movement , '' Rosenblum said in a statement .
`` Every American should be repulsed when they see this happening @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Portland , it can happen anywhere . ''

'They Just Started Waling On Me': Violence In Portland As U.S. Agents Clamp Down
Enlarge this image toggle caption Noah Berger/AP Noah Berger/AP
As federal law enforcement agents continue to occupy Portland, Ore., state and local officials are demanding that they leave. Protesters have demonstrated in the city's downtown for more than 50 nights since George Floyd died after a Minneapolis police officer knelt on his neck.
"There's absolutely no question that by having the presence of federal officers here, it's simply like adding gasoline to a fire," Oregon Gov. Kate Brown said in a weekend interview with NPR.
On Sunday, a new image of the stiff federal response in Portland went viral: a video of 53-year-old Navy veteran Christopher David being struck repeatedly with a baton wielded by a federal law enforcement officer.
A graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy and a former member of the Navy's Civil Engineer Corps, David told The Washington Post that he hadn't previously been to any protests, but he wanted to know how the federal officers thought about their oath to defend the Constitution.
"Why are you not honoring your oath to the Constitution?" he says he yelled at the officers. Video shows an officer dressed in camouflage hitting David with a baton and another officer spraying him in the face with a chemical irritant.
"I stood my ground at that point and just stayed there. ... I did nothing provocative. They just started waling on me with batons, and I let them," David told The Independent. He was left with a broken hand.
Oregon Public Broadcasting reported Friday that federal law enforcement officers have been using unmarked vehicles in downtown Portland to grab and detain protesters.
In an interview Sunday with NPR, Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler blamed the federal government for making things worse in the city.
"We have an already heightened situation. It's already tense," Wheeler said. "But after nearly five weeks of demonstrations, we are starting to see that small handful of people who were engaged in criminal activity — it was dissipating. It was calming down. We believed a week ago it would be over by this weekend. But what happened instead is the feds stepped in with a very heavy-handed approach, and it blew the lid off the whole thing."
"With the federal government, they won't even identify who they are," Wheeler said. "We don't know why they're here. We don't know the circumstances under which they're making arrests. We don't know what their policies are or what accountability mechanisms there are, to the point where even the U.S. attorney here in the state of Oregon is calling for an investigation, wondering, where was the probable cause to pull these people off the streets into unmarked cars?"
President Trump defended the federal response. "We are trying to help Portland, not hurt it," he tweeted on Sunday. "Their leadership has, for months, lost control of the anarchists and agitators. They are missing in action. We must protect Federal property, AND OUR PEOPLE."
Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf brushed aside criticism that federal officers are inciting violence.
"I don't need invitations by the state, state mayors or state governors to do our job," Wolf said Monday on Fox News. "We're going to do that, whether they like us there or not."
He called the protesters "violent anarchists and extremists" and said they were "violent well before DHS surged assets into Portland."
Wolf said the Department of Homeland Security will defend Portland's Mark O. Hatfield U.S. Courthouse from destructive acts despite requests from state and local authorities that federal officers leave.
As Oregon Public Broadcasting's Jonathan Levinson told NPR's Morning Edition, Portland police initially reacted with force to the protests, using tear gas and rubber bullets. Activist groups and protesters sued the city and won a temporary restraining order, limiting law enforcement's use of tear gas and rubber bullets — but it doesn't apply to federal law enforcement.
The federal officers in Portland are from the U.S. Marshals Special Operations Group, a SWAT-like unit from U.S. Customs and Border Protection and the Federal Protective Service, Levinson said. They started taking a more active role clearing protesters from around the courthouse on July 1.
On July Fourth, the federal police made a show of force, dispersing the crowd but then continuing across the street and into the city for blocks, alongside the Portland police. Last week, a protester was shot in the head with a less lethal round and severely injured.
Early Monday morning, the Portland Police Bureau released a statement describing federal law enforcement's role in Sunday night's protests and making clear that local police had not played any part in engaging with crowds or releasing tear gas.
Trump has called the protests "totally out of control." Ken Cuccinelli, the acting deputy DHS secretary, seemed to blame the restrictions on Portland's mayor, telling NPR last week that Wheeler "holds back to a certain extent his own law enforcement."
On Friday, the U.S. senators from Oregon, Jeff Merkley and Ron Wyden, as well as U.S. Reps. Earl Blumenauer and Suzanne Bonamici asked the Justice Department and DHS to investigate "the unrequested presence and violent actions of federal forces in Portland."
Oregon Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum filed a lawsuit Friday against the DHS and other federal agencies and alleged that they have "engaged in unlawful law enforcement in violation of the civil rights of Oregonians by seizing and detaining them without probable cause."
"The federal administration has chosen Portland to use their scare tactics to stop our residents from protesting police brutality and from supporting the Black Lives Matter movement," Rosenblum said in a statement. "Every American should be repulsed when they see this happening. If this can happen here in Portland, it can happen anywhere."


npr--2020-07-20--Pelosi, Dems Cite Election Interference In Request For Info From FBI

Pelosi , Dems Cite Election Interference In Request For Info From FBI Democratic leaders in the Congress asked the FBI for an all-lawmaker briefing on Monday about foreign election interference efforts that may be targeting the legislature this year .
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi , D-Calif. , and the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee , Rep. Adam Schiff , D-Calif. , signed the request along with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer , D-N.Y. , and Senate Intelligence Committee Vice Chairman Mark Warner , D-Va. , '' We are gravely concerned , in particular , that Congress appears to be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ campaign , which seeks to launder and amplify disinformation in order to influence congressional activity , public debate , and the presidential election in November , '' the members wrote to FBI Director Christopher Wray .
The lawmakers included a classified appendix to their public letter .
Its contents were n't known .
A congressional official said the material was based on reporting and intelligence from within the government .
`` To ensure a clear and unambiguous record of the counterintelligence threats of concern , the four enclosed with the letter a classified @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , from the executive branch 's own reporting and analysis , '' the official said .
`` The counterintelligence experts at the FBI must provide the full Congress with a defensive counterintelligence briefing on these threats before the August recess . ''
No Republicans signed the letter and it was n't immediately clear whether they would join with the Democrats in asking for a presentation .
Foreign election interference exploded into the public consciousness during and after the Russian attack on the 2016 presidential election , which sought to help President Trump and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
The techniques involved — including social media agitation , cyberattacks and other such tradecraft — have continued at a lower level ever since , national security officials have warned .
But there was little information on Monday as to what insights or events might have prompted Pelosi and her colleagues to request more information from the FBI now .
Former Vice President Joe Biden , Democrats ' presumptive nominee for president , condemned foreign interference in a statement on Monday and vowed that if he 's elected president he 'll retaliate against @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he was `` putting the Kremlin and other foreign governments on notice .
If elected president , I will treat foreign interference in our election as an adversarial act that significantly affects the relationship between the United States and the interfering nation 's government . ''
Biden said that he would instruct the intelligence community to make public briefings about interference and promised to `` impose substantial and lasting costs , '' including via sanctions , cyberattacks , public exposures or other measures .
Biden suggested at events on Friday that he has @ @ @ @ @ @ @ both Russia and China were intent on causing effects in the election .
`` We know from before and I guarantee you I know now because now I get briefings again : The Russians are still engaged in trying to de-legitimize our electoral process , '' Biden said on Friday .
`` Fact . ''
Added Biden , according to the report : `` China and others are engaged as well in activities that are designed for us to lose confidence in the outcome . ''
Both Biden 's and Trump 's campaigns @ @ @ @ @ @ @ cyberattacks , authorities say .

Pelosi, Dems Cite Election Interference In Request For Info From FBI
Enlarge this image toggle caption Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images
Updated at 5:15 p.m. ET
Democratic leaders in the Congress asked the FBI for an all-lawmaker briefing on Monday about foreign election interference efforts that may be targeting the legislature this year.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., signed the request along with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and Senate Intelligence Committee Vice Chairman Mark Warner, D-Va.,
"We are gravely concerned, in particular, that Congress appears to be the target of a concerted foreign interference campaign, which seeks to launder and amplify disinformation in order to influence congressional activity, public debate, and the presidential election in November," the members wrote to FBI Director Christopher Wray.
The lawmakers included a classified appendix to their public letter. Its contents weren't known.
A congressional official said the material was based on reporting and intelligence from within the government.
"To ensure a clear and unambiguous record of the counterintelligence threats of concern, the four enclosed with the letter a classified addendum that draws, in large part, from the executive branch's own reporting and analysis," the official said. "The counterintelligence experts at the FBI must provide the full Congress with a defensive counterintelligence briefing on these threats before the August recess."
No Republicans signed the letter and it wasn't immediately clear whether they would join with the Democrats in asking for a presentation.
Foreign election interference exploded into the public consciousness during and after the Russian attack on the 2016 presidential election, which sought to help President Trump and hinder his Democratic challenger, Hillary Clinton.
The techniques involved — including social media agitation, cyberattacks and other such tradecraft — have continued at a lower level ever since, national security officials have warned.
But there was little information on Monday as to what insights or events might have prompted Pelosi and her colleagues to request more information from the FBI now.
Biden vows aggressive response
Former Vice President Joe Biden, Democrats' presumptive nominee for president, condemned foreign interference in a statement on Monday and vowed that if he's elected president he'll retaliate against nations that conduct it.
Biden said he was "putting the Kremlin and other foreign governments on notice. If elected president, I will treat foreign interference in our election as an adversarial act that significantly affects the relationship between the United States and the interfering nation's government."
Biden said that he would instruct the intelligence community to make public briefings about interference and promised to "impose substantial and lasting costs," including via sanctions, cyberattacks, public exposures or other measures.
Biden suggested at events on Friday that he has been getting national security briefings and that both Russia and China were intent on causing effects in the election.
"We know from before and I guarantee you I know now because now I get briefings again: The Russians are still engaged in trying to de-legitimize our electoral process," Biden said on Friday. "Fact."
Added Biden, according to the report: "China and others are engaged as well in activities that are designed for us to lose confidence in the outcome."
Both Biden's and Trump's campaigns continue to be the subject of foreign cyberattacks, authorities say.


npr--2020-07-20--Crime Has Declined Overall During The Pandemic, But Shootings And Killings Are Up

Crime Has Declined Overall During The Pandemic , But Shootings And Killings Are Up Across the country , we 've seen massive change brought on by the coronavirus pandemic , including a dramatic drop in the overall crime rate .
David Abrams , a University of Pennsylvania law and economics professor , has been keeping an eye on numbers across the country .
The website he created details what 's been happening with crime in more than 25 major cities during the COVID-19 crisis .
`` People have reacted to the pandemic in all sorts of ways in decreasing economic @ @ @ @ @ @ @ They stopped going to work , they stopped driving their car .
They stopped walking around the city , and crime also stopped . ''
Baltimore , Philadelphia , San Francisco , Washington , D.C. , and Chicago all have witnessed a drop of more than 30 % .
Violent crimes such as aggravated assaults and robberies also fell substantially .
That was n't true of homicides and shootings though .
In some cities , there 's a troubling rise compared with last year .
Shauntavius Sims , 35 , lives in a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ gun violence .
That reality makes the news of an overall drop in the crime rate irrelevant .
`` Seem like it got worser to me .
Just yesterday , I saw it behind my house , '' Sims says , as the sounds of firecrackers — not guns — filled the air .
`` Some boys just came and shot while me and my baby was in the back .
Like every day , it 's constantly on the news .
Every day , it 's something . ''
There has been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ weekends , and several children have been shooting victims .
It 's that type of tragic crime news in Chicago and other cities such as Houston , Cincinnati and Fresno , Calif. , that 's gotten the most attention .
Even though the numbers are tragic , Abrams says it 's difficult to determine any trend in murder or other crimes over a short time span .
He says for a more accurate statistical count it takes comparing what takes place from year to year over a longer period of time .
`` @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and compare it to levels over the past five years , '' he says , `` we did n't see any significant impact because of the pandemic . ''
Even so , University of Chicago professor Jens Ludwig , the head of the university 's Crime Lab , says it 's a big puzzle why shootings and murders have n't dropped while other crimes have .
`` Murders make up far less than 1 % of the crimes in these cities , '' Ludwig says , `` but murder is so damaging to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ n't think we have a great understanding of why they have n't declined . ''
Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot agrees it is complicated .
She says in some ways the pandemic created the perfect storm by compelling people to stay inside , but it also stymied the normal operations of jails and courts .
More people intent on causing harm may be out on the streets instead of in the criminal justice system .
She adds the underlying causes of violence are also factors .
`` That 's poverty , lack of hope @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the things that build healthy and strong families and communities , '' Lightfoot says .
`` And we have way too many guns on the street . ''
There 's more positive news when it comes to drug crimes .
They plummeted by more than 60 % compared with previous years , according to Abrams ' website .
Arizona State University criminologist Ojmarrh Mitchell says there are several reasons why .
`` First , drug crimes are measured by arrests , not citizen reports to police , '' Mitchell says .
`` During @ @ @ @ @ @ @ employing the pro-active police tactics and practices that typically result in discovering drugs . ''
The pandemic seems to be driving a lot of the reduction in crime , including home burglaries .
But in commercial spaces , there 's been a bump in burglaries , up by almost 30 % on average across the cities examined .
Abrams says there was also a dramatic jump in car theft in Philadelphia , with increases as well in Denver , Los Angeles and Austin , Texas .
Baltimore was the only city that saw @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people are leaving cars on the street , they have no need to use them , '' he says .
`` They are n't checking on them as frequently .
There 's also just less foot traffic around and fewer people to observe .
I think that makes for more attractive targets for would-be thieves . ''
Those targets and any COVID-19 impact on crime will likely change altogether as more cities try to reopen their economies and people again adjust their lives .

Crime Has Declined Overall During The Pandemic, But Shootings And Killings Are Up
Enlarge this image toggle caption Scott Olson/Getty Images Scott Olson/Getty Images
Across the country, we've seen massive change brought on by the coronavirus pandemic, including a dramatic drop in the overall crime rate.
David Abrams, a University of Pennsylvania law and economics professor, has been keeping an eye on numbers across the country. The website he created details what's been happening with crime in more than 25 major cities during the COVID-19 crisis.
"People have reacted to the pandemic in all sorts of ways in decreasing economic activity," Abrams says. "They stopped going to work, they stopped driving their car. They stopped walking around the city, and crime also stopped."
The Coronavirus Crisis Policing Is Changing In The Age of Social Distancing Policing Is Changing In The Age of Social Distancing Listen · 3:49 3:49
Baltimore, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Washington, D.C., and Chicago all have witnessed a drop of more than 30%. Violent crimes such as aggravated assaults and robberies also fell substantially.
That wasn't true of homicides and shootings though. In some cities, there's a troubling rise compared with last year.
Shauntavius Sims, 35, lives in a Chicago neighborhood that has been plagued by gun violence. That reality makes the news of an overall drop in the crime rate irrelevant.
"Seem like it got worser to me. Just yesterday, I saw it behind my house," Sims says, as the sounds of firecrackers — not guns — filled the air. "Some boys just came and shot while me and my baby was in the back. Like every day, it's constantly on the news. Every day, it's something."
There has been a surge of homicides over recent violent weekends, and several children have been shooting victims. It's that type of tragic crime news in Chicago and other cities such as Houston, Cincinnati and Fresno, Calif., that's gotten the most attention.
Even though the numbers are tragic, Abrams says it's difficult to determine any trend in murder or other crimes over a short time span. He says for a more accurate statistical count it takes comparing what takes place from year to year over a longer period of time.
"When you look at the homicide data and compare it to levels over the past five years," he says, "we didn't see any significant impact because of the pandemic."
Even so, University of Chicago professor Jens Ludwig, the head of the university's Crime Lab, says it's a big puzzle why shootings and murders haven't dropped while other crimes have.
"Murders make up far less than 1% of the crimes in these cities," Ludwig says, "but murder is so damaging to families and communities, and I don't think we have a great understanding of why they haven't declined."
National Chicago Shootings Are Called Senseless, But Anti-Violence Workers Say That's Too Easy Chicago Shootings Are Called Senseless, But Anti-Violence Workers Say That's Too Easy 10:23
Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot agrees it is complicated. She says in some ways the pandemic created the perfect storm by compelling people to stay inside, but it also stymied the normal operations of jails and courts. More people intent on causing harm may be out on the streets instead of in the criminal justice system. She adds the underlying causes of violence are also factors.
"That's poverty, lack of hope, despair, not enough access to the things that build healthy and strong families and communities," Lightfoot says. "And we have way too many guns on the street."
There's more positive news when it comes to drug crimes. They plummeted by more than 60% compared with previous years, according to Abrams' website.
Arizona State University criminologist Ojmarrh Mitchell says there are several reasons why.
"First, drug crimes are measured by arrests, not citizen reports to police," Mitchell says. "During a pandemic, police aren't necessarily employing the pro-active police tactics and practices that typically result in discovering drugs."
The pandemic seems to be driving a lot of the reduction in crime, including home burglaries. But in commercial spaces, there's been a bump in burglaries, up by almost 30% on average across the cities examined.
Abrams says there was also a dramatic jump in car theft in Philadelphia, with increases as well in Denver, Los Angeles and Austin, Texas. Baltimore was the only city that saw a substantial decline.
"So if people are leaving cars on the street, they have no need to use them," he says. "They aren't checking on them as frequently. There's also just less foot traffic around and fewer people to observe. I think that makes for more attractive targets for would-be thieves."
Those targets and any COVID-19 impact on crime will likely change altogether as more cities try to reopen their economies and people again adjust their lives.


npr--2020-07-20--'Black In Selma' Author Reflects On The Long March Toward Civil Rights

'Black In Selma ' Author Reflects On The Long March Toward Civil Rights The late J.L .
Chestnut was the first Black lawyer in Selma , Ala .
He was working with the NAACP at the time of the city 's 1965 civil rights march .
In 1990 , he spoke to Fresh Air about Bloody Sunday .
This is FRESH AIR .
I 'm Terry Gross .
Today we remember civil rights leader and Congressman John Lewis .
He died of pancreatic cancer Friday .
He was 80 .
We 're going to listen back to my 2009 interview @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Alabama , the son of sharecroppers .
He was often called the conscience of Congress .
He was elected in 1986 and served until his death , representing Georgia 's 5th District , which includes Atlanta .
As a young civil rights activist , he was repeatedly beaten by police and white racists and was thrown in jail many times .
In 1961 , he was one of the original Freedom Riders , integrated teams who challenged segregation by traveling together on buses through the segregated South .
He was the founder of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and went on to become a close associate of Martin Luther King .
Lewis was the youngest speaker at the 1963 March on Washington , which ended with King 's `` I Have A Dream '' speech .
In 1965 , Lewis was a leader of the march from Selma to Montgomery , Ala. , protesting segregation and demanding voting rights .
The march ended soon after it started , when Alabama state troopers attacked the demonstrators on the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma in what became known as Bloody Sunday .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ skull .
The national outrage that followed that tragic spectacle led to the passage of the Voting Rights Act , which was signed into law by Lyndon Johnson on August 6 , 1965 .
Before we hear from John Lewis , we 're going to hear some of Bloody Sunday 's backstory and listen to an excerpt of my interview with the late J.L .
Chestnut , who became the first Black lawyer in Selma , Ala. , in 1958 .
At the time of the march , he was working with the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ like then for Black people .
JL CHESTNUT : Let me give you some flavor of what was going on there .
There were only 150 Blacks registered to vote out of a pool of about 15,000 .
Not one Black - not one in the entire state of Alabama - had ever served on a jury .
No Blacks had jobs downtown except as delivery people or janitors , and a Black person could literally lose his or her life for not yielding a sidewalk or saying sir or ma'am to a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ It engulfed Selma , and it engulfed the South .
Now , that is the Selma , the South that I went back to to practice law .
GROSS : You make an interesting point in your book .
You say that - we know when you started as a lawyer , there was no Voting Rights Act ; there was no Civil Rights Act - so a lot of injustices could n't be taken to court .
CHESTNUT : What we hoped to do was to make new law .
We did @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
The NAACP , at that point , were financing a lot of criminal cases which were pregnant with the possibility of establishing some of the laws we have on the books now - the Miranda thing , where the police have to read to you your rights and all of that .
And the South was fertile territory for that because just being Black in the South made one vulnerable to the police and all of their excesses .
And many of them were untrained and , in their relationships with Blacks @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to get cases to the United States Supreme Court that would deal with the - whether a confession was voluntary .
Eventually , we did and changed the law on that subject .
A lot of things which are now the law came about through some of our efforts .
And the court , just with the passage of time , got where we were trying to push them way back in the - you know , 1958 , 1960 .
GROSS : What was your reaction as a , quote , `` @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to organize in Selma in 1965 ?
CHESTNUT : Well , I had been somewhat ambivalent about all of the civil rights leaders there .
I felt that what they were saying was directed more at the masses than at me .
And after all , I had two degrees , too , and I was educated .
And Martin had views which ran counter to everything I had learned in law school .
For an example , he insisted that he had a high moral right to disobey an unjust law and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ law was unjust .
That is not what I learned in law school .
That wasn ’ t what I believed in .
I felt that you go to court to get a law declared unconstitutional .
I was n't quite sure about all this unjust businesses .
That was not - that 's not the terminology that lawyers use .
In addition to that , Martin was always trying to get me to give up my weapon and calling me a man of little faith .
And I was telling him that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ masses , but I 'm not paying you any attention .
I 'm going to keep my weapon because it can bark here and bite way down the street .
And Martin would laugh .
But I knew that his presence in Selma meant that more people like my mother , middle-class Blacks , would become involved - that Martin 's presence gave a legitimacy to the movement that it otherwise would not have .
Also , as long as he was involved , important and powerful white people in Washington would be @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the movement .
GROSS : Did you ever get more comfortable with civil disobedience as a tactic for civil rights ?
CHESTNUT : I was finally convinced that Martin was correct and the people who were paying me were incorrect .
It is not generally known , but you take Bloody Sunday - that started out of a situation where a young man , Jimmie Lee Jackson , was shot dead by a state trooper .
People were so frustrated and all that , they came out with the grotesque idea of just @ @ @ @ @ @ @ miles to Montgomery and putting the body on George Wallace 's desk .
And of course , that was not done , but it was agreed to make the march to Montgomery .
And Martin was not involved in that first march , but he came on , I think , the day following and then marched .
But what is not generally known is , while they were putting the people in the streets , they were not paying for that .
The NAACP Legal Defense fund in New York was financing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ organization .
That 's who I worked for .
Their view was that you take two or three obviously qualified people , send them down to get registered .
And when they are turned down , you go into court .
You 've got a perfect case .
Martin was repudiating all that by sending 500 people down because he said he wanted to win in the court of public opinion .
He was not interested just in adding a few more voters to the voters ' - voting rolls in Selma .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ point of view that he was correct and my bosses were not .
GROSS : Well , Bloody Sunday on March 7 , 1965 , happened during a march from Selma to Montgomery to petition George Wallace for the right to vote .
The march was broken up violently by state troopers .
Would you share some of your memories of that day ?
CHESTNUT : Well , I had come over from Mississippi , and I was n't sure that there would be a march .
Martin was in Atlanta preaching at @ @ @ @ @ @ @ people in Martin 's organization did not think well of a march .
They did n't think it was worth risking Martin .
But I think Andy Young called him in Atlanta and persuaded him that there would be a march with or without him .
And he - so Martin then OK 'd the march .
I had gone across the river early - across the bridge because they would not let lawyers march .
You know , you had enough foot soldiers .
What we did n't have was enough lawyers @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have lawyers in jail .
So I had gone across the river earlier not knowing whether there would be a march and to get to a telephone because once a march started , you would have the FBI , the press and everybody fighting over the one telephone .
So I went over there early to tie it up in case there would be a march .
And I 'd have to describe to the NAACP what was happening because they were paying the bill .
And I was over there tying up @ @ @ @ @ @ @ toward the bridge , and there was John Lewis , who 's now Congressman John Lewis from Georgia - Atlanta - and this group of marchers coming toward this great line of state troopers and posse men .
And I began to describe the scene over the telephone to New York .
And then John and the group came face-to-face with the troopers .
And I heard some voice , a state trooper , who said , stop ; this will be as far as you will be permitted to go .
Turn @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
And then John and the others began to kneel and pray .
And then I heard something that sounded like a tear gas canister hit the pavement .
And then there was smoke , bedlam , confusion , blood , tears , cries .
And there were these big , hefty posse men swinging billy clubs the size of baseball bats and coming down across the heads of women and children .
My eyes were hurting , and my head was hurting , and New York was screaming over the telephone , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ going on ?
And I tried to pull some women back out of the street , and it was just awful .
It was one of the lowest days of my life .
At that day , I lost all faith in America .
I lost all faith in white people .
I said , my God , Black people will never be citizens .
We will never be what we ought to be in this land .
And what is this ?
I have gone to Howard University .
I 'm a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ man 's court , and here these people are trampling on my folk in the streets , blood everywhere .
And they 're trampling on the Constitution , and nobody does anything about it because these people are Black .
And I was just almost in tears .
And two days later , I had to revise and make a new assessment because white people and Black people came from all over this nation .
They 'd watched it on television , and they were thoroughly upset at what they saw .
You @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a check down from New York and say I 'm with you .
It 's something altogether different to come down and lock hands with a Black person and say , I 'm ready to go to jail ; I 'm ready to die if necessary .
And I saw hundreds and hundreds of people come from all over this land to join with us in this little town of my birth .
And I had to look and reassess all over again .
And my faith in this nation , my faith @ @ @ @ @ @ @ GROSS : When the Voting Rights Act was actually passed , what were the immediate effects in Selma ?
CHESTNUT : The immediate effect was that within six weeks - in a six-week span , we went from about 200 registered voters to 9,000 .
I do n't know whether there has been on leap of such proportions in the history of the human race .
People who could not vote , had no voice in their government , in a matter of six weeks became very important players .
But we saw @ @ @ @ @ @ @ .
Blacks began to show up on juries .
White politicians had to temper what they said about Blacks , and some Blacks began to feel that they could run for office .
Where there had been hopelessness , we now had hope .
GROSS : I want to thank you very much for talking with us .
CHESTNUT : Well , I 'm glad to be here .
GROSS : That was the late J.L .
Chestnut , recorded in 1990 .
He died in 2008 at the age of 77 .
@ @ @ @ @ @ @ Lewis , in which he described his experience on Bloody Sunday , after we take a short break .
This is FRESH AIR .

'Black In Selma' Author Reflects On The Long March Toward Civil Rights
The late J.L. Chestnut was the first Black lawyer in Selma, Ala. He was working with the NAACP at the time of the city's 1965 civil rights march. In 1990, he spoke to Fresh Air about Bloody Sunday.
TERRY GROSS, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. Today we remember civil rights leader and Congressman John Lewis. He died of pancreatic cancer Friday. He was 80. We're going to listen back to my 2009 interview with him. Lewis grew up in Alabama, the son of sharecroppers. He was often called the conscience of Congress. He was elected in 1986 and served until his death, representing Georgia's 5th District, which includes Atlanta.
As a young civil rights activist, he was repeatedly beaten by police and white racists and was thrown in jail many times. In 1961, he was one of the original Freedom Riders, integrated teams who challenged segregation by traveling together on buses through the segregated South. He was the founder of SNCC, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, and went on to become a close associate of Martin Luther King. Lewis was the youngest speaker at the 1963 March on Washington, which ended with King's "I Have A Dream" speech.
In 1965, Lewis was a leader of the march from Selma to Montgomery, Ala., protesting segregation and demanding voting rights. The march ended soon after it started, when Alabama state troopers attacked the demonstrators on the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma in what became known as Bloody Sunday. Lewis was beaten and suffered a cracked skull. The national outrage that followed that tragic spectacle led to the passage of the Voting Rights Act, which was signed into law by Lyndon Johnson on August 6, 1965.
Before we hear from John Lewis, we're going to hear some of Bloody Sunday's backstory and listen to an excerpt of my interview with the late J.L. Chestnut, who became the first Black lawyer in Selma, Ala., in 1958. At the time of the march, he was working with the NAACP. He described what Selma was like then for Black people.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
JL CHESTNUT: Let me give you some flavor of what was going on there. There were only 150 Blacks registered to vote out of a pool of about 15,000. Not one Black - not one in the entire state of Alabama - had ever served on a jury. No Blacks had jobs downtown except as delivery people or janitors, and a Black person could literally lose his or her life for not yielding a sidewalk or saying sir or ma'am to a white person. Fear was everywhere. It engulfed Selma, and it engulfed the South. Now, that is the Selma, the South that I went back to to practice law.
GROSS: You make an interesting point in your book. You say that - we know when you started as a lawyer, there was no Voting Rights Act; there was no Civil Rights Act - so a lot of injustices couldn't be taken to court.
CHESTNUT: What we hoped to do was to make new law. We didn't expect to win at that level. The NAACP, at that point, were financing a lot of criminal cases which were pregnant with the possibility of establishing some of the laws we have on the books now - the Miranda thing, where the police have to read to you your rights and all of that. And the South was fertile territory for that because just being Black in the South made one vulnerable to the police and all of their excesses. And many of them were untrained and, in their relationships with Blacks, unrestrained.
So we were trying to get cases to the United States Supreme Court that would deal with the - whether a confession was voluntary. Eventually, we did and changed the law on that subject. A lot of things which are now the law came about through some of our efforts. And the court, just with the passage of time, got where we were trying to push them way back in the - you know, 1958, 1960.
GROSS: What was your reaction as a, quote, "local" when Martin Luther King came to organize in Selma in 1965?
CHESTNUT: Well, I had been somewhat ambivalent about all of the civil rights leaders there. I felt that what they were saying was directed more at the masses than at me. And after all, I had two degrees, too, and I was educated. And Martin had views which ran counter to everything I had learned in law school. For an example, he insisted that he had a high moral right to disobey an unjust law and he would make the determination when the law was unjust. That is not what I learned in law school. That wasn’t what I believed in. I felt that you go to court to get a law declared unconstitutional. I wasn't quite sure about all this unjust businesses. That was not - that's not the terminology that lawyers use.
In addition to that, Martin was always trying to get me to give up my weapon and calling me a man of little faith. And I was telling him that you go ahead and preach to the masses, but I'm not paying you any attention. I'm going to keep my weapon because it can bark here and bite way down the street. And Martin would laugh.
But I knew that his presence in Selma meant that more people like my mother, middle-class Blacks, would become involved - that Martin's presence gave a legitimacy to the movement that it otherwise would not have. Also, as long as he was involved, important and powerful white people in Washington would be watching. So he meant everything to the movement.
GROSS: Did you ever get more comfortable with civil disobedience as a tactic for civil rights?
CHESTNUT: I was finally convinced that Martin was correct and the people who were paying me were incorrect. It is not generally known, but you take Bloody Sunday - that started out of a situation where a young man, Jimmie Lee Jackson, was shot dead by a state trooper. People were so frustrated and all that, they came out with the grotesque idea of just taking Jimmie's body and marching 50 miles to Montgomery and putting the body on George Wallace's desk.
And of course, that was not done, but it was agreed to make the march to Montgomery. And Martin was not involved in that first march, but he came on, I think, the day following and then marched. But what is not generally known is, while they were putting the people in the streets, they were not paying for that. The NAACP Legal Defense fund in New York was financing that. And they were a legalistic organization. That's who I worked for. Their view was that you take two or three obviously qualified people, send them down to get registered. And when they are turned down, you go into court. You've got a perfect case.
Martin was repudiating all that by sending 500 people down because he said he wanted to win in the court of public opinion. He was not interested just in adding a few more voters to the voters' - voting rolls in Selma. So I eventually came around to the point of view that he was correct and my bosses were not.
GROSS: Well, Bloody Sunday on March 7, 1965, happened during a march from Selma to Montgomery to petition George Wallace for the right to vote. The march was broken up violently by state troopers. Would you share some of your memories of that day?
CHESTNUT: Well, I had come over from Mississippi, and I wasn't sure that there would be a march. Martin was in Atlanta preaching at his father's church, and some people in Martin's organization did not think well of a march. They didn't think it was worth risking Martin. But I think Andy Young called him in Atlanta and persuaded him that there would be a march with or without him. And he - so Martin then OK'd the march.
I had gone across the river early - across the bridge because they would not let lawyers march. You know, you had enough foot soldiers. What we didn't have was enough lawyers. It didn't make sense to have lawyers in jail. So I had gone across the river earlier not knowing whether there would be a march and to get to a telephone because once a march started, you would have the FBI, the press and everybody fighting over the one telephone. So I went over there early to tie it up in case there would be a march. And I'd have to describe to the NAACP what was happening because they were paying the bill.
And I was over there tying up the telephone. And I looked up toward the bridge, and there was John Lewis, who's now Congressman John Lewis from Georgia - Atlanta - and this group of marchers coming toward this great line of state troopers and posse men. And I began to describe the scene over the telephone to New York. And then John and the group came face-to-face with the troopers. And I heard some voice, a state trooper, who said, stop; this will be as far as you will be permitted to go. Turn around and go back to your churches.
And then John and the others began to kneel and pray. And then I heard something that sounded like a tear gas canister hit the pavement. And then there was smoke, bedlam, confusion, blood, tears, cries. And there were these big, hefty posse men swinging billy clubs the size of baseball bats and coming down across the heads of women and children. My eyes were hurting, and my head was hurting, and New York was screaming over the telephone, what's going on? What's going on? And I tried to pull some women back out of the street, and it was just awful.
It was one of the lowest days of my life. At that day, I lost all faith in America. I lost all faith in white people. I said, my God, Black people will never be citizens. We will never be what we ought to be in this land. And what is this? I have gone to Howard University. I'm a lawyer and an officer in the white man's court, and here these people are trampling on my folk in the streets, blood everywhere. And they're trampling on the Constitution, and nobody does anything about it because these people are Black. And I was just almost in tears.
And two days later, I had to revise and make a new assessment because white people and Black people came from all over this nation. They'd watched it on television, and they were thoroughly upset at what they saw. You know, it's easy to send a check down from New York and say I'm with you. It's something altogether different to come down and lock hands with a Black person and say, I'm ready to go to jail; I'm ready to die if necessary. And I saw hundreds and hundreds of people come from all over this land to join with us in this little town of my birth. And I had to look and reassess all over again. And my faith in this nation, my faith in the human race was restored.
GROSS: When the Voting Rights Act was actually passed, what were the immediate effects in Selma?
CHESTNUT: The immediate effect was that within six weeks - in a six-week span, we went from about 200 registered voters to 9,000. I don't know whether there has been on leap of such proportions in the history of the human race. People who could not vote, had no voice in their government, in a matter of six weeks became very important players.
But we saw immediate impact of that in the courtroom. Blacks began to show up on juries. White politicians had to temper what they said about Blacks, and some Blacks began to feel that they could run for office. Where there had been hopelessness, we now had hope.
GROSS: I want to thank you very much for talking with us.
CHESTNUT: Well, I'm glad to be here.
GROSS: That was the late J.L. Chestnut, recorded in 1990. He died in 2008 at the age of 77. We'll hear my interview with John Lewis, in which he described his experience on Bloody Sunday, after we take a short break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MARY LOU WILLIAMS' "WILLIS")
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